Punishing Rioters Is Wise. Bogus 'Seditious Conspiracy' Charges Are Not.
Politics ruin everything, including the criminal justice system.

The problem with convicting members of the "western chauvinist" Proud Boys on seditious conspiracy charges is that it wrongly elevates a violent tantrum by a bunch of thugs to the level of an insurrection, and it lets officials who prosecute them puff themselves up as saviors of the republic. Worse, the case took liberties with a statute that is probably best forgotten to arrive at its conclusion when normal criminal law could have punished rioters without putting the criminal justice system through contortions.
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Prosecutors High on Their Own Supply
"A jury in the District of Columbia today returned guilty verdicts on multiple felonies against five members of the Proud Boys, finding four of the defendants guilty of seditious conspiracy for their actions before and during the breach of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021," the Department of Justice trumpeted last week. "According to the evidence at trial, in the months leading up to Jan. 6, the defendants plotted to oppose by force the lawful transfer of presidential power, and to prevent the Members of Congress, and the federal law enforcement officers who protect them, from discharging their duties."
"At my Senate confirmation hearing just over a month after January 6th, I promised that the Justice Department would do everything in its power to hold accountable those responsible for the heinous attack that sought to disrupt a cornerstone of our democracy: the peaceful transfer of power to a newly elected government," huffed Attorney General Merrick Garland, a man who gives every impression that he tremendously enjoys the smell of his own emissions. "Today's verdict is another example of our steadfast commitment to keeping those promises."
And so, we're told, the republic is safe from those who would rise against it in insurrection. But before we consign former Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio and codefendants Ethan Nordean, Joseph Biggs, and Zachary Rehl to the history books alongside Mosby and Quantrill, Confederate guerrillas of the sort who inspired the seditious conspiracy statute to begin with, let's consider an important obstacle: There's sparse evidence of a meaningful conspiracy "to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States" as required by law.
Shouldn't a Conspiracy Be Better Organized?
"The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result," Reuters noted in August 2021. "'Ninety to ninety-five percent of these are one-off cases,' said a former senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. 'Then you have five percent, maybe, of these militia groups that were more closely organized. But there was no grand scheme with Roger Stone and Alex Jones and all of these people to storm the Capitol and take hostages.'"
That said, if anybody was among those "more closely organized," it was the Proud Boys, and the Oath Keepers of the earlier case. But still, prosecutors and the judge had to get creative to arrive at a verdict.
"The sedition trial…was characterized by frequent delays, frayed relations between the defense and prosecution and several decisions by the presiding judge, Timothy J. Kelly, that tested the boundaries of conspiracy law," reported Alan Feuer and Zach Montague for The New York Times. "Judge Kelly's rulings allowed prosecutors to introduce damning evidence about the violent behavior and aggressive language of members of the Proud Boys who had only limited connections to the five defendants. The rulings also permitted jurors to convict on conspiracy even if they found there was no plan to disrupt the certification of the election, but merely an unspoken agreement to do so."
"Mr. Tarrio was not even in Washington on Jan. 6, having been kicked out of the city days earlier by a local judge presiding over a separate criminal matter," they added.
"The Justice Department's take, of course, fits the narrative favored by Democrats who reflexively describe the Capitol riot as an 'insurrection.'" Reason's Jacob Sullum observed. "But that term implies a level of planning and organization that does not fit the chaotic reality of what happened that day."
There's no easy way to portray the resulting conviction as anything other than a stretch. In fact, less-loaded criminal charges could and did serve to penalize the defendants for their disruptive actions in Washington, D.C., on January 6.
Normal Criminal Charges Would Have Done the Trick
"The four defendants and co-defendant Dominic Pezzola, 45, of Rochester, New York, were also found guilty of obstruction of an official proceeding, conspiracy to prevent Members of Congress and federal law enforcement officers from discharging their duties, civil disorder, and destruction of government property," the Justice Department added in its press release. "Pezzola was also found guilty of assaulting, resisting, or impeding certain officers and robbery involving government property."
These are charges grounded in the defendants' own conduct. They don't require an "unspoken agreement" or "limited connections" to other people that can tendentiously be converted into a plot against the republic if you squint just right and have a cooperative judge. But destruction of property, impeding Congress, and assaulting police officers, while crimes, don't allow prosecutors and their political allies to portray themselves in heroic terms. Rioters are violent troublemakers, but seditious conspirators can be portrayed as part of a larger movement that intends harm to the whole country.
When Seditious Conspiracy Was "Paranoid and Dictatorial"
The Trump administration floated pulling this same stunt with seditious conspiracy charges (often incorrectly framed as just "sedition") against rioters during the civil unrest of the summer of 2020.
"Attorney General William Barr told the nation's federal prosecutors to be aggressive when charging violent demonstrators with crimes, including potentially prosecuting them for plotting to overthrow the U.S. government," The Wall Street Journal's Aruna Viswanatha and Sadie Gurman reported at the time.
"Sedition charges require proof of efforts to overthrow the United States Government," Harvard Law's Laurence Tribe responded. "Talking in these terms based on what's happening is grotesquely irresponsible. It's way beyond monarchical. It's paranoid and dictatorial. Opus Dei, anyone?"
Likewise, the ACLU called Barr's proposed seditious conspiracy prosecutions "a tyrannical and un-American attempt to suppress our demands for racial justice and an end to police violence."
Now the shoe is on the other foot, with a new administration wielding seditious conspiracy charges as weapons against another set of rioters with a different flavor of politics. Again, the rioters' actions would justify prosaic criminal prosecutions if their partisan loyalties weren't at odds with those in power. But why just punish political opponents for bad behavior when you can smear them and their associates as dangers to the nation?
In a country as divided as ours, everything becomes a bludgeon against hated others. Politics ruin everything, including the criminal justice system.
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Yeah. A D.C. jury would give purported White Supremacists a fair trial.
Given that there were like, ten times as many FBI agents involved in the "conspiracy" doesn't that make that organization far more guilty of attempting to overthrow the government of the United States by force than the Proud Boys?
Fortunately, I'm sure this politicization of the courts will not backfire in any way at all.
"Fortunately, I’m sure this politicization of the courts will not backfire in any way at all."
There will be a time when a Republican administration applies these same standards to a Left leaning group and the Left will go ape shit.
Quoque? Izzat tu?
Is that Latin for: I suck my own dick?
Sounds like the answer would be to carry BLM signs while burning down leftwing establishments.
Ever notice that "mostly peaceful demonstrations" destroy property of blacks, and "riots" threaten white owned property?
The “mostly peaceful protests” of 2020 destroyed plenty of minority businesses.
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You know damn well there was a seditious conspiracy, it was led by the FBI, the CIA, and the Deep State.
^This
America's very own color revolution.
You forgot Antifa, the Russians and Hunter.
Somehow Sarcasmic can't look at those three things and ask himself why.
Keep defending this sarc. Makes you truly look like the one true libertarian and not someone caught up in leftist narratives.
Just mute him. The spambots are more interesting than his blatherings.
The FBI sees it as their job to infiltrate and develop assets within institutions. The Catholic church for example.
Maybe they just want a piece of that alter boy action.
To get rid of organization the deep state doesn't like, they infiltrate it, then the mole is the one who incites or perpetrates violent rather than peaceful protest so that the authorities have cause to arrest and jail. They have been doing this for decades, to the Vietnam war protestors, black movements and independence for Puerto Rico movements to name a few. Considering they had infiltrated the proud boys and others, and had information on the demonstration of January 6th, there was a profound lack of security and the national guard was held back, for a reason. The aim was to kill two birds with one stone. The ensuing and instigated violence not only served to criminalized the Proud Boys and others so as to lock up their leaders and eliminate the organizations, it also served to demonize Trump, brand him as a dictator and spoil his chances for reelection.
However, the same hypocrites in the DC congress who have been so eager to brand the January 6th protest as sedition, had supported the violent coup in Kiev where buildings were burned, demonstrators and police shot by a suspected sniper squad so as to ignite a demonstration that was going nowhere, into a more explosive event and where democratically elected parliamentarians from the Donbass were forced to resign at gun point. This violent coup, funded by the US, the DC congress proudly hailed it as democracy in action. The founding fathers of the US have said, citizen have the right to change a government they deem to be treasonous and no longer acting in the citizens best interests. The US government has long ceased to act for the interest of the majority of its citizens. Endless wars, globalism, corrupt politicians and the death of the American dream have sprouted such organizations as the Proud boys and antagonized its citizens and therefore acting the government, rather than address the issued of citizens, is in a defensive role, doing all it can to eradicate the freedoms the constitution guarantees.
When even Reason sees the charges as overwrought…
Sarc and Mike have an issue as they applauded the outcome for 2 days, and now 2 reason writers point out some of the issues with the convictions. The two Simon dont know what to do. Hope this is a slow turn for reason and they review all of j6 and the political prosecution.
Things get out of hand enough, even writers at Reason wake up from their stupor and say "Hey wait, let's not go crazy here guys." Of course, it's far too late for that now, but I guess that is what gives them to opportunity to post an article like this.
But destruction of property, impeding Congress, and assaulting police officers, while crimes, don't allow prosecutors and their political allies to portray themselves in heroic terms. Rioters are violent troublemakers
BUT THEY WERE JUST TOURISTS !!
I thought that they were all supposed to be MaGA cOmMuNistS, Shrike?
Say, Shrike.
Why is the only guy caught on tape actually calling for violent insurrection that day, still uncharged and defended by the J6 committee, the FBI, the Democrats and Sixty Minutes?
And why did a guy who was escorted by Hill Police the entire time and who's only crime was wearing a funny headdress, have exonerating evidence illegally suppressed at his trial and get five years?
What's the official Media Matters and Open Society take on the incongruities? Do you have a talking point you can copy and paste?
turd, the ass-clown of the commentariat, lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
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Long Dong's current old lady sez they were only saving Amerika from King George. She oughtta know!
Is “long dong” the bizzaro version of you?
"...it wrongly elevates a violent tantrum by a bunch of thugs to the level of an insurrection, and it lets officials who prosecute them puff themselves up as saviors of the republic."
Which, of course, is the whole point of this entire trial, by media and by court. Like Rahm said, "never let a crisis go to waste," and embellish as necessary in order to achieve an opportunity.
Just learning of these sedition charges now, or is it just safe to criticize now that the show trial is over? Funny how you were a supporter of no consequences for theft, assault, arson and attempted murder for BLM but the most you can do here is "sedition is too much retribution"
Reason cried multiple times about unmarked vans and badges with numbers but not names. Really amazing.
I have zero issues with punishing lawbreakers.
But if it is done in a purely partisan manner (lawyers firebombing a cop get far less time that people walking around the capitol), it defiles the rule of law.
^ This.
Communists believe in one set of rules for party members, another for peasants. Party members get a slap on the wrist. Non-party people get the book thrown at them. And the left is wondering why they get called communists.
My point was more as journos with a bent towards "criminal justice reform" they went silent when it could shape opinion here and are only speaking now to close the door on the next prosecutions as leftists are routinely storming capitol buildings in their temper tantrums.
Sounds like seditious disinformation to me.
This doesn't absolve you of your guilt, Tuccile.
Pray you continue avoiding justice as long as possible.
Stupid Reason logged me out so I had to look at all the comments. JesseAz is posting lies and Nardz is posting death threats. Nothing changes.
Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly.
Attack dogs gotta whoof.
Reasons primary liars have to lie despite having links to their prior comments.
Amazing how you two think this bullshit works.
“Stupid Reason logged me out so I had to look at all the comments.”
Hahahaha… sure thing Sarckles.
Sometimes our dumbest troll can’t admit that he peeks, but still wants to take cheap shots.
And lie about it. Even told him I bookmarked it for posterity lol.
What lie dumbass? For 2 days you and Mike defended the charges. Here is your link
https://reason.com/2023/05/04/judge-dismisses-trump-lawsuit-against-the-new-york-times/?comments=true#comment-10047396
You spent multiple posts defending the jury.
So the only one lying here is you.
Stupid Reason logged me out ….
Too funny. I’m sure Mike will jump to the defense of the reason IT team.
Enh, they do seem to recycle their login cookies pretty frequently. I have to log in a lot on mobile.
Punishing Rioters Is Wise
What if to punish them you must first arrest them in unmarked vans. I hear that is worst than insurrection. The highest level of human rights violation.
https://reason.com/volokh/2020/07/17/disturbing-reports-from-portland/
But they were just protestors....
https://reason.com/2020/10/07/the-feds-invade-portland/
I never forgot Reason's coverage of that, essentially taking the word of accused rioters at face value.
They had a couple Nancy Rommelmann articles to make sure they got at least a little truth out.
https://reason.com/2020/09/04/youre-not-allowed-to-film-the-fight-for-control-over-who-reports-from-portland/
" setting fires to police stations and other institutions"
Are those the peaceful fires I kept hearing about?
*Mostly* peaceful arson.
I can only hope “Reason “
people can experience mostly peaceful action.
"In a country as divided as ours, everything becomes a bludgeon against hated others. "
This pretty much confirms that the Biden administration and Democrat firebrands have no real intention to unify the country. Contrast with events after the War for Southern Independence: Jeff Davis, jailed for a couple years but never charged; Gen. Lee going unmolested, even after leading hundreds of thousands of armed soldiers against the Federal government; John Mosby (mentioned as a factor in the 'seditious conspiracy' statute) became the U.S. Consul to Hong Kong and later was appointed to a position in the U.S. Dept. of Justice. If "unity" was a goal really sought by the politicians, then the whole Jan.6th episode would be put in its proper context.
It goes even further. I’m sure, like me, a lot of people here were taught that Lee was a great general who fought with dignity for the losing side, to be thought of with respect. Just recently, there have been efforts to paint anyone who fought for the confederacy as enemies and traitors of the United States, to be thought of with disdain.
Is it still OK for radio to play The Band’s, “The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down”, anymore. Is it memory holed that Joan Baez used to sing that song?
Just recently, there have been efforts to paint anyone who fought for the confederacy as enemies and traitors of the United States, to be thought of with disdain.
It's a small part of a broader trend to judge people in history not by the standards of their time, but by the standards of today.
Does 3 days ago count as defining you by the standards of the time? Because I just posted the thread you defended the charges.
Like today's christianofacists, the rebs wanted to freely bully and rape slave girls. The plantation owners wanted to import agricultural implements with low import tariffs and the Northern Accumulation wanted a high tariff wall for its cartel. Once the war was over, the North adopted Comstockism. When northern voters reacted, the Feds handed freedmen over to the Dixie Klan, had the courts water down the Enforcement Act and Reconstruction Amendments and for their treachery STILL lost. Hayes had to be installed by bayonet and stolen recount. The tariff stayed, slavery returned.
Lee's memoirs made explicit mention of the protective tariff.
That requires a Presidential pardon AFTER the courts begin their process. Johnson pardoned tens of thousands who could be prosecuted for treason. One of my ancestors was pardoned by Lincoln during the war.
We don't pardon anymore. There are problems with this sort of pardon. But it is precisely the sort of situation that requires pardons .
We used to call this action a "sit-in".
No. Sit-ins are just as they are described, a group occupies a space to make a political or social statement. The nuns arrest in the Capital rotunda (1982) would be an example of a sit-in. Not this, this was a riot and an insurrection.
How?
Damn, I almost assumed that had been sarcasm until I saw who posted it and realized they were serious.
Worst insurrection ever. They didn't even bring any guns.
But it was ok to shoot the woman in the face.
By the way, the MAGA rioters apologists' claim that there were no guns at the Capitol on January 6th isn't even true. Here's one example:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/indiana-man-pleads-guilty-carrying-gun-and-assaulting-law-enforcement-officers-jan-6
"An Indiana man pleaded guilty today to carrying a loaded gun on Capitol grounds and assaulting law enforcement officers during the breach of the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021."
Is that the only example?
Guns plural. One example singular.
And there were plenty of guns. Like the one used to kill Babbitt. The only gun used was the government. Please defend.
Oh fine. There was one gun. Doesn't take away from my point. If it was an insurrection they would have done some insurrecting.
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Instead, they ended up getting made fun of by sarc for getting shot in the face.
Babbitt was shot in the shoulder at an angle so that the bullet transected her trachea. In the video you can see her spitting up blood as it filled her lungs. It took her 10 minutes to die that way.
While the cop stood by laughing triumphantly. He got to kill an American in the name of democrat hegemony. Especially satisfying for him as democrats hate Americans.
So a guy carried a concealed gun that was never brandished or fired. That’s not quite the same as using guns to storm the capitol.
Really? We're going to play that game?
Look, just admit that some of the January 6th rioters had guns.
The Fabian socialists and red allies held sit-ins. Nobody could vote but rednecks and pigs. Conscriptable youth could only vote after July 1971. That was the signal to form a libertarian party 5 months later. It took fascist and communist infiltraitors fuly half a century to effectively neutralize THAT option. So now we're back to sit-ins and leaving the country again.
Even when democracy was at stake?
When AOC wet her pants (and wished she was actually in the Capitol).
There were many types at the Capital on January 6th. Some were tagalongs following the crowd into off limited spaces, some were carried away and rioted, but it does seem that some were there to start trouble and it does seem that sedition is a reasonable way to characterize their actions. That they may have been foolish and incompetent does not matter. History is full of attempts by people to start movement or revolutions that were foolish and ill conceived.
but it does seem that some were there to start trouble
Haven't you been paying any attention? The bad apples were all infiltrators. FBI, Antifa, CIA, Russians, Democrats and such. Every single one. All the MAGA Republicans were totally peaceful tourists.
Too bad there weren’t any Disco Infiltrators. Would have been a lot more entertaining.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuROZb2QU6Q
Did the infiltrators commit any arson while they were there?
https://youtu.be/u5lSeYd_riw
I don't know, but if LCD Soundsystem goes to Boston I'll be there.
You'd have to be a Dancin Fool to like disco.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEsr5Mm3JfE
Dead disco, dead funk, dead rock and roll. I've seen these guys twice. Great show if they come to your area.
2 for 1 strawman special at the dive bar?
Yeah! They were only there to grab pussy.
Hope you're OK with the next set of lefty jackasses that bust into a state capitol ending up under the state pen for years before their show trials put them there permanently.
It doesn't have to go that far. It could be Congress critters being suspended or removed due to disruptive behavior. We are seeing that now.
I favor machine gunning them, as it is completely legal under the established ‘Babbitt Rule’. So anything we do to violent crowds of democrats is now ok. So the next time antifa, BLM, or some rabid tranny murderers start committing acts of violence, anything we do to them is ok.
the oathkeepers conveniently left all their guns in their hotel rooms ... what kind of revolutionaries do that?
Dumb ones?
Are you sorry there weren’t more people killed?
Not surprising coming from you.
conspiracy to achieve the unachievable is a stupid reason to put people behind bars.
Don’t agree at all. Bank robbers don’t get off just because they botched a bank robbery. If we actually did that, we would be saying to criminals, “Try again until you get it right!”
Oh, and I’ll give you the best counterargument to what I just said, which isn’t that strong of a counterargument: If you put failed criminals behind bars, you are putting them in a social environment where they can get tips on how to crime from more experienced criminals.
The counterargument to that, by the way, is that the criminals who really know what they are doing are not behind bars.
over the weekend while we played doubles three friends & I planned to overrun North Korea
I had lunch with a couple of buddies and we were discussing levitating the capitol!
capsizing Guam also en vogue.
I was chit chatting with a few people at a local bar about subjecting ourselves to a reverse molecule machine to grant us kryptonian super powers. Which we would use to conquer the entire planet and force the son of Jor-el to kneel before us.
We're all under investigation for conspiring to commit impossible crimes!
trueman, below, says that's fine so long as someone can round up 12 dim-bulbs to vote "yes".
So, did you only plan it or did you attempt it?
nobody attempted anything they were convicted of.
if I set out to lose, and succeed, which have I done? - george carlin
That’s quite the blanket statement. And so vague as to what set of people you are talking about it’s meaningless.
Thoughtcrimes!
""The counterargument to that, by the way, is that the criminals who really know what they are doing are not behind bars""
The FBI?
lol exactly.
Long Dong?
Robbing a bank is actually possible. The only way they could have “overthrown democracy” would have been to be heavily armed and executing as many congress critters as it took to get what they wanted.
*not advocating killing anyone NSA motherfuckers.
Selectively Punishing the Wrong Kind of Rioters Is Wise.
FIFY
This is why the dems need to demonize everything about the right. They are afraid of another Trump win.
Trump leads Biden 36% to 32% for 2024 rematch according to WashPost/ABC Poll.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/05/07/president-biden-post-abc-poll/
A video in that link popped up showing "Someone Else" beating Biden by double digits.
Biden - 36%
Someone Else - 58%
I wonder how much of the vote "None of the above" would capture in the general election?
gonna need to see Someone Else's birth certificate.
They'd have to put it at the top of the list in order to lose.
What could the Dems possibly make stick that would make God's Own Prohibitionists look any worse than the Gee Ooh Pee's own record? The depersoning and enslavement of all fertile women using Anita Hill's stalker as a Clayton Bigsby sockpuppet is less than sufficient?
Who did the same Wapo-ABC poll say would win in 2016?
"Normal Criminal Charges Would Have Done the Trick"
I'm not sure this is true. Perhaps conspiracy charges were necessary to convict Tarrio, who wasn't in D.C. on Jan. 6. I remember reading of prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi's cooking up Charles Manson's race war conspiracy to get a conviction for Manson who wasn't present at the scenes of the crimes. (This supposed conspiracy is routinely trotted out in these comments to this day, years after its debunking.)
Conspiracy charges were necessary if you want to make a case about sedition and insurrection. This would be needed to support the party line about J6.
Also for the government, conspiracy charges were necessary because sedition and insurrection did not happen. The best government could prove was a conspiracy.
"insurrection did not happen"
Some broke into the capital to disrupt government transfer of power. That's pretty close to insurrection, evidently close enough for the jury in any case. Although Tarrio wasn't present in D.C. on Jan. 6, so the vaguer conspiracy charges were necessary to get a conviction for him. Don't know about the others though.
“Some broke into the capital to disrupt government transfer of power. That’s pretty close to insurrection, evidently close enough for the jury in any case.”
Nobody “broke into” anything and the ability to disrupt the transfer of power did and does not exist, but you, as a boot-liking statist shit, justify punishment since 12 low-watt bulbs agree.
Eat shit and die asshole.
"Nobody “broke into” anything "
The jury evidently believed otherwise. But you don't do 'evidence,' do you?
"Conspiracy charges were necessary if you want to make a case about sedition and insurrection."
I don't think so. Sedition and insurrection are crimes in themselves, and to disrupt government functions to 'stop the steal' or attempt to do so certainly seem to fit the bill. I've been told to view conspiracy charges with suspicion as they often indicate the state has a weak case.
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"...I don’t think so. Sedition and insurrection are crimes in themselves, and to disrupt government functions to ‘stop the steal’ or attempt to do so certainly seem to fit the bill..."
Well, levitating the capitol would have been more effective, and equally possible.
"Well, levitating the capitol would have been more effective, and equally possible."
Less illegal too.
"...Perhaps conspiracy charges were necessary to convict Tarrio, who wasn’t in D.C. on Jan. 6..."
Yeah, convicting someone who wasn't there of planning a "crime' which is impossible to commit!
Feather in that prosecutor's hat, right there!
Spend a few years in the slammer and you’ll learn to plan only crimes that are possible to commit. Another lesson for would be insurrectionists, don’t listen to or take advice from the government informants and agents provocateur that the government has planted in your revolutionary cells.
mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|#
"Spouting nonsense is an end in itself."
"This is totes different because... because... you're a poopy head!" - Progtards
Hey, don't ruin this for some of us. Since they have devalued my social security plans, the new plan is to find some informants and plan an insurrection. That 20 year sentence to federal prison includes full medical, dental and three meals a day. Internet and cable with good behavior that I am sure I can swing. These days your retirement planning requires some creativity.
Heh.
So a bunch of Christian National Socialist collectivists do a remake of SDS anarco-communist attacks on the Dixiecratic Convention in Chicago--only this time directly attacking the political state itself. Now Tuccille expects us to believe this is somehow different because... violent girl-bullying prohibitionist anarco-fascists are better? I wish Tucille all the luck in the world selling that one. He'll need it.
Tuccille didn't complain when Trump fired two AGs and the head of the FBI because they were insufficiently loyal to him, but when roioters who videoed themselves assaulting police officers are sent to jail, it becomes a political statement because he supported the overthrow of the elected president.
Got a live one here, folks!
Fuck off and die, TDS-addled pile of shit.
The VERY 1st Amendment of the Bill of Rights.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to.......
PETITION THE GOVERNMENT for a redress of grievances.
Punishing Rioters Is Wise???? F'That noise. Rioting is just a sure sign of a treasonous government eroding everyone's Individual Liberty. The people are suppose to RIOT against a Nazi-Empire.
"The problem with convicting members of the "western chauvinist" Proud Boys on seditious conspiracy charges"
A lot of them pleaded guilty to the charges and other offenses besides. 'Proud' boys, indeed. Hitler and Mussolini never pleaded guilty for their insurrectionary actions, and took their jail time like men. Not boys.
I have no problem seeing in this case an actual seditious conspiracy even if it was only launched to support something as minor as an attempt to interfere with a Senate proceeding.
Overblown claims that January 6 was an attempted coup d’etat, or maybe just an attempt to intimidate Pence into supporting Trump, don’t really have much bearing on the nature of the illegality undertaken by the Proud Boys. It is appropriate to throw the book at them.
Yet it is only wise to punish east coast conservative rioters. West coast liberal rioters should not be arrested, if arrested should be left go without charges, if charged should be let go without bail, and if left go without bail, the charges should be dropped before the trial.
(sarc)
The whole trial was a farce in Washington DC which has 96% Democratic voters. How do you get a non partial jury from that pool? The jury will convict any right leaning person no matter how ridiculous the charges. Any trial with political ties should get a change of venue to a purple area. No right leaning person will ever be exonerated in DC, and no left leaning person, as we saw in the Sussman trial will ever be convicted in DC no matter how guilty, It is a total farce.
They were guilty. That trial, along with the trials of the Oath Keepers and the Dominion lawsuit against FOX, shows what happens when the smarmy, dishonest dipshittery so common among today's right-wing meets a court of law with the task of adjudicating real, authentic truth and facts.
This author obviously did not read any of the testimony from the trial. He obviously hasn't read any of the interviews given by the jurors, because if he had, he would know that they did in fact find that these drunken morons had plan to "do whatever it takes to stop Biden from taking power" (a direct quote from one of many, many texts introduced as evidence).
The two idiots who took the stand tied their own nooses with an unbelievable display of attempted gaslighting that apparently works in their dumbass online echo-chambers but not in front of actual grown-ups
Q: You testified earlier that you've never said anything threatening about police officers?
A: Yeah, I never have.
Q: Isn't this your text where you say, 'these coptifa motherf-ckers had better decide whose side they're on or we'll roll over them."
A: That's protected free speech.
Q: You just testified that you'd never talked threateningly about police officers
A: That was freedom of speech too.
They were guilty.
Imagine you and your friends spent all day every day exercising your freedom of speech by talking and texting about how crooked the bank downtown is. Imagine that you routinely discuss how someone should rob it, how it deserved to be robbed, how you would spend the money if you did rob it, how it wouldn't even be stealing because it deserved to be robbed, how one day some real patriots would rob it.
Then one day, you're driving by the bank and someone has crashed their car through the wall and through the vault. You all look at each other leap out of the car and steal all the money.
Guess what? You're guilty of CONSPIRACY to rob a bank. The fact that your never had a Mission Impossible-style perfectly devised plan is irrelevant. YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT ROBBNG IT FOR MONTHS.