The Satanic Temple Sues Over Right To Give 'Invocation' at City Council Meetings
"When the government picks and chooses among religions," the lawsuit reads, "religious liberty is threatened for all."

The Chicago City Council, like many other legislative bodies, typically opens meetings with an "invocation"—essentially, a prayer or moment of reflection. Clergy from a wide range of religious backgrounds have given these invocations, and a Satanist minister wants to join their ranks. But the city has refused to let him—and refused to explain the decision. Now, this minister has filed a First Amendment lawsuit against the city.
The Satanic Temple is a nontheistic religion that, as noted by the lawsuit, is "federally recognized as a church and a religious public charity." Contrary to popular belief, members of the group don't actually worship Satan. Instead, they follow a series of seven "Tenets" focused on broad ideas of compassion, rationalism, and freedom.
The Satanic Temple has often tested religious-freedom policies and challenged anti-abortion laws on religious-freedom grounds. Just this month, the group experienced a significant legal victory after it won its lawsuit against a school district that attempted to block the formation of an "After School Satan Club." It also celebrated when in 2015 a large Ten Commandments monument was removed from the Oklahoma state Capitol following a protest by the group and a lawsuit by the American Civil Liberties Union.*
This most recent lawsuit, filed on Wednesday, marks at least the third time The Satanic Temple has sued after being blocked from giving an invocation or prayer before a legislative body. Adam Vavrick, the ordained minister in the religion, unsuccessfully sought to perform an invocation at a Chicago city council meeting. According to the suit, Vavrick began his efforts in January 2020, when he spoke to Chauncy Rice, the then-chief of public engagement for the Office of the City Clerk, who told Vavrick "that he would be happy to schedule him to provide an invocation after 'standard vetting procedures."
"For the next several months, Minister Adam followed up with Mr. Rice approximately once a month to inquire about the status of his request to provide an invocation," writes the complaint. "These emails went unanswered." The same outcome occurred when Vavrick attempted to schedule an invocation with Rice's successor.
Eventually, Vavrick retained a lawyer, who contacted a city attorney who "was unable to articulate the process for seeking to provide an invocation and could not say whether the City would permit Minister Adam to deliver an invocation."
"The City has never formally rejected Minister Adam's request to provide an invocation," the complaint states. "Rather, the City has simply resisted scheduling him for more than three years without providing a definitive answer about whether he will ever be permitted to provide an invocation."
Vavrick's lawsuit against the city argues that, in failing to schedule him to give an invocation, it has engaged in blatant religious discrimination.
"By excluding Plaintiffs Vavrick and The Satanic Temple from providing an invocation before the City Council, while opening this forum to clergy from other faiths, Defendant violates the First Amendment's establishment clause," the lawsuit claims, adding that "the lack of any policy setting standards and criteria for selection of clergy members to provide an invocation before City Council violates the First Amendment because it vests unbridled discretion with the City Clerk, creating an unreasonable risk of arbitrary and discriminatory decision-making."
While it's possible that other factors, like simple incompetence, could have contributed to Chicago's failure to schedule a Satanic Temple invocation, discrimination against the Temple is clearly prohibited by the First Amendment. Even if Chicago may not like it, Satanists—and clergy from any other disfavored faith—have an equal right to give invocations before the City Council.
As the lawsuit states, "When the government picks and chooses among religions—amplifying some and excluding others from the public discourse—religious liberty is threatened for all."
*CORRECTION: A previous version of this article mischaracterized The Satanic Temple's legal activities.
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It'd be interesting to see the text of The Satanic Temple's standard invocation.
Not safe for work, I would assume.
I dunno. Can't be worse than the Church of DEI.
Satanism where there is no difference between good and evil or right and wrong.
No discussion about satanism is complete without understanding freemasonry and its origins.
THE JEWISH TRIBUNE, New York, Oct. 28, 1927, Cheshvan 2, 5688, Vol. 91, No. 18: “Masonry is based on Judaism. Eliminate the teachings of Judaism from the Masonic ritual and what is left?”
LA VERITE ISRAELITE, Jewish paper 1861, IV, page 74: “The spirit of Freemasonry is the spirit of Judaism in its most fundamental beliefs; it is its ideas, its language, it is mostly its organization, the hopes which enlighten and support Israel. It’s crowning will be that wonderful prayer house of which Jerusalem will be the triumphal centre and symbol.”
LE SYMBOLISM, July, 1928: “The most important duty of the Freemason must be to glorify the Jewish Race, which has preserved the unchanged divine standard of wisdom. You must rely upon the Jewish race to dissolve all frontiers.”
AN ENCYCLOPEDIA OF FREEMASONRY,Philadelphia, 1906: “Each Lodge is and must be a symbol of the Jewish temple; each Master in the Chair, a representative of the Jewish King; and every Mason a personification of the Jewish workman.”
MANUAL OF FREEMASONRY, by Richard Carlile: “The Grand Lodge Masonry of the present day is wholly Jewish.”
THE FREEMASON, April 2, 1930, quoting Br. Rev. S. McGowan: “Freemasonry is founded on the ancient law of Israel. Israel has given birth to the moral beauty which forms the basis of Freemasonry.”
Rabbi Br. Isaac Wise, in The Israelite of America, March 8, 1866: “Masonry is a Jewish institution whose history, degrees, charges, passwords and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end.”
Benjamin Disraeli, Jew, Prime Minister of England, in The Life of Lord George Bentick: “At the head of all those secret societies, which form provisional governments, men of the Jewish race are to be found.”
LATOMIA, a German Masonic journal, Vol. 12, July 1849, Page 237: “We cannot help but greet socialism (Marxism – Communism) as an excellent comrade of Freemasonry for ennobling mankind, for helping to further human welfare. Socialism and Freemasonry, together with Communism are sprung from the same source.”
BERNARD STILLMAN, Jew, in Hebraic influences on Masonic Symbolism, 1929, quoted The Masonic News, London: “I think I have proved sufficiently that Freemasonry, as what concurs symbolism, lays entirely on a formation which is essentially Jewish.”
O.B. Good, M.A. in The Hidden Hand of Judah, 1936: “The influence of the Jewish Sanhedrin is today more powerful than ever in Freemasonry.”
JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, 1903, Vol, 5, page 503: “The technical language, symbolism and rites of Freemasonry are full of Jewish ideas and terms ... In the Scottish Rite, the dates on official documents are given according to the era and months of the Jewish calendar, and use is made of the Hebraic alphabet.”
B’NAI B’RITH MAGAZINE, Vol. 13, page 8, quoting rabbi and mason Magnin: “The B’nai B’rith are but a makeshift. Everywhere that Freemasonry can admit that it is Jewish in its nature as well as in its aims, the ordinary lodges are sufficient for the task.
The ADL (Anti-Defamation League) of B’nai B’rith is a totally Jewish controlled organization with its main goal to destroy Christianity. (Also, the B’nai B’rith form a super-Masonic lodge where no “Gentiles” are admitted.)
TRANSACTIONS OF THE JEWISH HISTORICAL SOCIETY Vol. 2, p 156: “The Coat of Arms used by the Grand Lodge of England is entirely composed of Jewish symbols. FREEMASONS WORSHIP LUCIFER!
THE FREEMASONRY, Jan 19, 1935, quoting instructions by Albert Pike, who simultaneously was Grand Master of the Central Directory of Washington, Grand Commander of the Supreme Council of Charleston, Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry: “That which we must say to the crowd is – We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, That you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees –
THE MASONIC RELIGION should be by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of THE LUCIFERIAN DOCTRINE. . . Yes, LUCIFER IS GOD.”
The Jewish Guardian admitted openly on 12 April 1922: "Freemasonry is born out of Israel."
The following could be read in the French masonic magazine Le Symbolisme (July 1928): "The most important duty of freemasonry must be to glorify the Jews, which has preserved the unchanged divine standard of wisdom."
The high-ranking freemason Dr Rudolph Klein stated: "Our rite is Jewish from beginning to end, the public should conclude from this that we have actual connections with Jewry." (Latomia, No. 7-8, 1928)
A speech at the B'nai B'rith convention in Paris, published shortly afterwards in The Catholic Gazette (London) in February 1936 and in Le reveil du peuple (Paris) a little later, stated: "We have founded many secret associations, which all work for our purpose, under our orders and our direction. We have made it an honour, a great honour, for the Gentiles to join us in our organizations, which are, thanks to our gold, flourishing now more than ever. Yet it remains our secret that those Gentiles who betray their own and most precious interests, by joining us in our plot, should never know that those associations are of our creation, and that they serve our purpose..."
"Freemasonry is a Jewish establishment, whose history, grades, official appointments, passwords, and explanations are Jewish from beginning to end."----Rabbi Isaac Wise
The Jewish Tribune newspaper, in 1927, in an editorial, stated: "Freemasonry is based on Judaism. Eliminate the teachings of Judaism from the Masonic ritual and what is left?"
Ray Novosel, writing from Australia in 2004, states: "Zionist world leaders, men in influential positions with the various Masonic organizations everywhere, have worked "hand in glove" for a universal world revolution, which will bring in the One World Church and a One World Government. Many Masonic Lodges are exclusively Jewish, as are the controlling B'nai B'rith Lodges —the mother of the infamous and very dangerous Anti Defamation League (ADL)."
Stormfront is over thataway, Misek.
Fuck off Nazi. We won’t let you start another Holocaust.
Are you saying that all those Jews were lying or are you advocating their ownership of freemasonry and satanism?
Fuck off bigot.
Why would I recant or apologize for telling the truth?
I will if any of you refute what I say, proving that it isn’t true.
None of you ever have. All you do is repeat your feeble failed attempts at coercion that have no effect on me.
I’m pleased with these optics.
What, that the three neonazi butt buddies you have will give you ass pats for being a good racist?
Kill yourself
Please give me the bundle of switches rather than make me picture that in my mind!
I may be Pan, but I don’t have a Nazi fetish!
😉
We get it, you’re a desperate, delusional, literal nazi. Obsessed with your hatred of Jews. You rant, you rave. No one gives a shit, and you have no converts here. Or anywhere else.
Now fuck off.
You demonstrate my point.
I love feeding you bleating trolls the truth you can’t ever refute and laughing every time you choke on it .
Hahaha!
The only thing we're choking on is our laughter at your stupidity and self-righteous delusion. You achieve the perversely impressive feat of making Elmer the voice of reason.
Hahaha
If you can’t demonstrate anyone ever refuting what I say, as I know you can’t, it is clearly you who is delusional.
That not how to spell raisins.
No, we're saying that you're lying. The crap you posted has all of the credibility of the Protocols.
Do you mean you think the Jews whose statements I referenced were lying?
What makes you believe that to be true?
Funny, these guys don't look Jewish. 🙂
Ray Stevens - "Shriner's Convention" (Music Video) [from Get Serious]
https://youtu.be/pO_tXzeiZAQ
Hell, in the original version, the little Redhead is in The Knights of Columbus. 🙂
Meanwhile, back in the Comments, Fuck Off Nazi!
Always nice to see a fellow Ray Stevens connoisseur.
Although I'm not heavy on Country and Gospel, I find novelty and parody songs are always hilarious regardless of music genre.
Ray Stevens also got a lot of cross-over play on Rock and Pop stations and on "The Dr. Demento Show," so he's ubiquitous and loved all over.
A speech at the B’nai B’rith convention in Paris, published shortly afterwards in The Catholic Gazette (London) in February 1936 and in Le reveil du peuple (Paris) a little later, stated: “We have founded many secret associations, which all work for our purpose, under our orders and our direction. We have made it an honour, a great honour, for the Gentiles to join us in our organizations, which are, thanks to our gold, flourishing now more than ever. Yet it remains our secret that those Gentiles who betray their own and most precious interests, by joining us in our plot, should never know that those associations are of our creation, and that they serve our purpose…”
Wait a minute! Your list of quotes included this one:
MANUAL OF FREEMASONRY, by Richard Carlile: “The Grand Lodge Masonry of the present day is wholly Jewish.”
A Correllary Axiom of The Law of Identity is The Law of Non-Contradiction: A thing cannot be A and Non-A at the same time and in the same respect.
So which is it? Is Masonry Jewish or not? You cannot have it both ways, and if you try, that way lies self-delusion and insanity.
Either stop this or turn yourself in to yourself for lying to yourself.
It's shit or get off the pot. And either way:
Fuck Off, Nazi!
Hahaha!
We know Jews lie duh!
You never answered. Do you think all those Jews are lying?
Do you think all Jews always lie? Hahaha
No, not all Jews lie, now or ever.
Now Fuck Off, Nazi!
Hardly a revelation.
I guess they realized inferior medical care if they did.
Hahaha.
Let's see if I have this straight. Jew are all pathological liars, but I should totally believe them when they brag about running the world. Trying to understand your reasoning would make my brain hurt, except I know better than to try.
Shit or get off the pot fuckwit.
Those statements are made by many influential Jews over a long period of time.
Why would Jews coordinate such a conspiracy?
Fuck off Kol Nidre boy.
Again, you are mischaracterizing The Kol Nidre every time you say that. Doing that deliberately would be lying.
Turn yourself into yourself for both lying to yourself and lying to others.
And Fuck Off, Nazi!
Tell me, how does a stupid Jew think I’ve “mischaracterized” the Kol Nidre?
How is it not clearly a plan to lie to people?
Are you waiting for someone else to bail you out?
Hahaha
The only invocation Chi-Town needs is:
"THE ALDERMEN ARE ABOUT TO CONVENE! NO ONE'S LIFE, LIBERTY, OR PROPERTY IS SAFE!! RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!"
🙂
LORD SATAN, SMITE THESE EVILDOERS WITH THY CLEANSING FIRE.
Then run to the graveyards and Potter's Fields and scream:
"THEY HAVE CRUCIFIED LADY LIBERTY! VOTERS ARISE AND WALK THE EARTH!"
🙂
Your incantation--er--invocation gives rise to an interesting question: If Satan punishes evildoers, how is he the bad guy?
😉
"If Satan punishes evildoers, how is he the bad guy?"
Well, in Judaism, Christianity and Islam, he doesn't punish evildoers, outside of the adage that the devils break their toys when they're done with them.
Satan ruling Hell is a modern era convention derived from a conflation of Satan with psychopomps like Pluto/Hades/Hel/Enma, and a second conflation of Hades/Gahenna/Tarturus with the "Second death" aka "lake of fire".
In Christianity, Islam and Mandaeism the "lake of fire" is where Satan, death and hell are ultimately destroyed.
So Christians, Muslims, and Mandaeans don't have their own shit straight when they condemn sinners to Hell?
That really inspires confidence in letting religion have the run of things.
r/atheism is that way
They're right. 🙂
"It’d be interesting to see the text of The Satanic Temple’s standard invocation."
It would be "PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!"
There is no standard invocation for town meetings. TST invocations and rituals are custom written for the occasion. However being in a public forum it most likely WOULD have been "safe for work"
It’d be interesting to see the text of The Satanic Temple’s standard invocation.
They don't have one.
They're not a 'nontheistic religion'. They're an atheist group that was rejected by LaVeyan Satanists because of their leftist propagandizing. They used to call themselves 'Satanic Reds'.
Okay, sure.
Arrest, indict, and imprison the perjurious criminal “Doctor” Anthony Fauci.
Impeach Garland.
Impeach Mayorkas.
And last but not least, impeach the scumbag-in-chief Joe Biden. Yep, I said it yet again!
And I’m just going to keep on saying it over and over and over and over and over again here every single week until we the American people get what we voted for: some justice and accountability for the three years (and counting) of absolute hell these bastards have put this country through because of their lies and crimes.
So let’s go already McCarthy, what the hell are you waiting for? The time for talk is over, we want action and we want it now. Your #1 most important job by far the rest of this term is to do everything you possibly can to clean up the dirty cesspool that the Department of Justice has been turned into.
MEDIA'S LONG CON TO BURY HUNTER BIDEN'S LAPTOP SCANDAL
It’s the biggest con ever perpetuated by the national media.
For all of their hysterics over “disinformation” and “collusion,” we know now that they were indisputably the most guilty of both.
Recent reports show how the Washington ruling class, including career intelligence officials, the media and Big Tech, plotted well in advance to suppress and discredit the fully authentic and legitimate Hunter Biden laptop story, solely for the purpose of influencing the 2020 election.
Read the rest here, this is a great piece:
https://nypost.com/2023/05/05/medias-long-con-to-bury-hunter-bidens-laptop-scandal/
legitimate Hunter Biden laptop story
Yep, those dick pics didn't just take themselves.
"Yep, those dick pics didn’t just take themselves."
"NOOOOOOOOOO, don't look at those emails, nothing to see there... But look his penis, and he's smoking crack with a hooker, and his penis, his penis... please look... Nooooo, not the emails!" - Shrike every-single-fucking-day
https://twitter.com/aimeeterese/status/1654774604563619841?t=189zxNjURbGXBqtF4wfM1Q&s=19
At the core of the leftist delusion is a vulgar materialist proposition, ie. that man does violent things only due to a lack of material resources & thus material resources alone are posited as the solution to complex human problems BUT only when perpetrator is a democrat client.
When a black person, a transsexual, a liberal college educated woman, a white BLM activist etc. is brutal, deceitful, cruel or malicious, it's because WE deprived or failed them. We denied them resources or affirmation or whatever the fuck.
HOWEVER this crude materialism doesn't go both ways. It's not a totalising worldview: they're perfectly content to condemn individuals as immoral, evil, malicious, inherently or morally corrupted—materialism be damned—so long as they tend to vote Republican rather than democrat.
They don't believe any of it. It's all a blame shifting exercise to deflect responsibility away from their voters & their policies & point the finger at whitey, or republicans or anything or anyone other than themselves & the near hegemonic control they have over US institutions.
When violent schizo homeless black man terrorises entire train carriage full of commuters, after leftists refused to fund cops to serve arrest warrants for felony assault, refused to lock up criminals, refused to enforce law, it's actually commuters fault and/or White Supremacy.
Leftism cannot fail, it can only be failed. We failed leftism.
The solution is always more leftism.
We failed Jordan Neely.
We were asking for it.
It's always our fault.
If only we did leftism harder, better, faster, stronger, things would be totally different this time baby!
Some leftists think like children. They expect others to provide physical and emotional sustenance. And they know how to use behavior, not work, in order to gain what they want.
Other leftists know this about their fellow travelers, and thus manipulate them with a constant feed of promises and fear. They also try to manipulate non-leftists with a different spin but the same basic message. In the end, they succeed only because we let them.
Wait a minute. Trumpistas who still feel the election was stolen are leftists?
Trumpistas
If you sub in the term "MAGA-Communists" it makes perfect sense.
Promoting “MAGA Communism” alongside Haz has been 23-year-old Jackson Hinkle, a commentator who also has his own show on YouTube. Recently, Hinkle has agitated around the “globalist” threat (a term most commonly used as an antisemitic dog-whistle), championed Putin in the Ukraine war, and made the rounds on right-wing cable news, including appearances on OANN and Tucker Carlson Tonight.
...
Together, they decry the “vulgarization” of Marxism by Western liberals, traffic in the language of “deep-state” conspiracies, and mock “planet worshippers,” dismissing modern climate change efforts as virtue-signaling “green fascism” backed by corporate entities.
Pro-Putin, Pro-Tucker, anti deep state, anti-green?
MAGA-Communist.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88qk4b/what-the-hell-is-magacommunism
That's just dumb.
That is exactly what a WEF Deep-State globalist would say.
When will you two clowns start throwing pies?
Sarc probably burns his pies like he does meat.
Sarc's probably burning his meat right now, judging from his trolling today.
Pies? And here I thought they threw poop like monkeys.
Anti-Putin, Anti-Tucker, pro deep state, and pro-green?
Definitely libertarianish and totes not progressive liberal, right?
What about Anti-Putin, Anti-Tucker, Anti-Deep State, and Anti-Green? That's very cromulent with Libertarianism.
Not a leftist guys.
Why not? The pointer means nothing but hints at opposed to MAGA, girl-bullying and kid-shooting over plant leaves, and could more easily point at libertarians on a one-dimensional line drawn by one-dementional Jesus Freaks.
ALL leftists think like children. They expect others to provide physical and emotional sustenance. And they know how to use behavior, not work, in order to gain what they want.
FTFY.
The manipulative leftists act like older siblings using the tantrums of the younger siblings to get what they want. So they tease and provoke and promise.
Since screaming gets them what they want they think the whole world works this way and thus, when they gain control of a place and try to make things work in the only way they know how, first they use everything useable, then they start blaming and screaming–which leads to purges and attempts to take things from others.
Marxism is the ideology of global infantilism.
The long con.
https://nypost.com/2023/05/05/medias-long-con-to-bury-hunter-bidens-laptop-scandal/
Recent reports show how the Washington ruling class, including career intelligence officials, the media and Big Tech, plotted well in advance to suppress and discredit the fully authentic and legitimate Hunter Biden laptop story, solely for the purpose of influencing the 2020 election.
The greatest offense was on behalf of the news media, the constitutionally protected institution charged with holding the powerful to account.
In essence, the fourth estate was instructed to de-emphasize the importance of materials that would politically harm the Bidens and instead elevate the means by which the materials were obtained.
And that’s exactly what they did when they refused to cover the story, or otherwise dismiss it as Russian propaganda.
To recap: Journalists were coached on how to shift the discussion away from newsworthy materials detrimental to a specific person (Biden) and focus instead on the means by which they were obtained.
But because many of the reporters were willing propagandists shilling for the government, it was ok, ITL. Nothing to worry about.
Ends and means. Or, for good Marxists who believe only in perpetual struggle, just means.
I mean they get awarded for capturing Bidens spirit.
Capture his spirit? Like using mystical means when he keels over? Maybe imprisoning his soul in an orb of Thesulah?
https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/1654811097457741824?t=Ier1jJ5F85kLAHY1fFEmjw&s=19
Ukraine security forces are rounding up and arresting what they call "internet agitators" whose heinous crimes allegedly include posting political opinions online, using certain social media sites, and criticizing the Ukraine military. Freedom and democracy on full display
[Thread, links]
They can express any opinion they want, but if they commit acts which give aid and comfort to Putin and the Putineers, such as recruiting fighters for Putin, espionage, revealing positions of Ukrainian resistance, or any other assistance, everything they say should be archived and used against them in The Hague or any other War Crimes trial venue.
Moreover, every Ukrainian needs to know who they are, so they get no rations, no shelter, no First Aid, and not even a lugee if their ass is on fire.
Again, none of this would be happening if Putin had never invaded.
Трахайтесь і дізнайтеся! (Ukrainian for "Fuck Around And Find Out!")
"The Satanic Temple is a nontheistic religion that, as noted by the lawsuit, is "federally recognized as a church and a religious public charity." Contrary to popular belief, members of the group don't actually worship Satan. Instead, they follow a series of seven "tenants" focused on broad ideas of compassion, rationalism, and freedom."
Sure, just like American socialists don't actually worship socialism. They just want to remake society and the economy to reflect broad ideas of equity, diversity, inclusion, and total control of pretty much everything.
Actually, American socialists tend to know dick about socialism. Words actually mean things, believe it or not, even though people like to throw them around as if they mean whatever they want them to mean.
Socialism means a command economy, not a market economy. It's not social programs funded by capitalism, and it's not laws enforcing social equality. It's an economic term with an economic meaning.
I am by no means defending confiscatory taxes or "equality" through government force.
Just saying you need a new term for these idiots, because they're not socialists.
^^^^ This.
Ask a Left-winger about Socialism, and they'll point to Sweden or Norway.
Which is funny because they have way less Gov in the economy
And they don’t have an open border, nor do they allow indigents to immigrate. Those countries also have little diversity.
Words actually mean things
Oh the fucking irony.
For example, most American "socialists" like to hold up the Nordic countries as models of socialism. Turns out those countries are more economically free than we are. They balk at the label socialism. Yes, they have robust social programs, but for the most part the government leaves businesses alone.
Contrast that with, say, Venezuela. Hugo stole businesses from the private sector, put then in government control, and ran them into the ground. Instead of creating wealth they destroyed wealth. The result was rampant poverty in a country with the more oil than Saudi Arabia. That's socialism. Though if you ask an American socialist they will disagree.
But they'll get socialism right next time.
I would argue that most American socialists absolutely want a command/control economy like Venezuela. They hold up those countries for their generous social spending, but they don't realize that the countries don't meddle too much in the economy.
Why should we ask ANY of the Marxist offshoots about anything. They should be swept aside, and then pushed out. For good.
Could somebody please convince Ms. Camp to stop offering opinions on the legality of things until she actually fucking studies law? Over and over she takes tenuous, or even tendentious, legal arguments and declares them to be "clearly" correct.
The fact that Chicago does not have a clear process by which the giving of the invocation is open to anyone is, in fact, evidence against the invocation being a forum as opposed to government speech. And if the invocation is government speech, there is nothing remotely "clear" that it constitutes an establishment of religion, whether under existing Supreme Court precedent or under a proper originalist/textualist analysis of what the word "establishment" means.
If Ms. Camp wants to make the moral argument that the Satanic Temple should be allowed to give the invocation, that's fine, just as she can make moral arguments against (for example) restricting what government employees (such as public university professors) can say when on the job. But when she starts opining on what the First Amendment allows/forbids, she is consistently full of shit.
Because the 1A is sooooooooooo complicated. I mean, what could "shall make no law" possibly mean? Does that mean regulation with the power of law is not subject to the 1A? Are there exceptions for government interest? Did they really mean it? There's no way a layperson could possibly understand.
Looks like you triggered the retard, DRM.
Can someone read DRM's post out loud to Sarcasmic? Because reading comprehension obviously isn't his bag.
He is completely emotionally invested in Owning the Cons, and completely incapable intellectually
You are really impressing the folks who engage in personal attacks against me because they lack the intellect to make cogent arguments.
Dude, you’re usually the one picking the fights and white knighting Pluggo and Mike.
*Sarcasmic furiously flipping through dictionary
“Call me 'completely incapable intellectually'?! Cogent… cogent… yeah, that’s the ticket! they… lack… the intellect… to make… cogent arguments… Hah, hah! Yes!”
Can you cite one of your cogent arguments to rebut?
I was fired from my job for being drunk, my daughter then committed felony vandalism and my wife left me
-sarc
I go after you in part because you threatened to come kick my ass. Now step up,or beg my forgiveness you pussy.
You remember what MAGA-Communists like MTG, Lauren Boebert, and hundreds of others say – the Bible is above the US Constitution in priority. To Trump-Communists the Constitution is an impediment to Christo-Fascism.
“It sounds crazy. It’s called ‘MAGA Communism,’ and the ‘communism’ thing means common wealth, common prosperity,” Haz tells one man, in a video he posted to his YouTube channel from the event. “We all come together: the workers striking at the railways, the MAGA industrial working class, the small farmers, we all unite with our power. We kick out the globalists. We kick out George Soros. We kick out Klaus Schwab. We stop that Great Reset agenda in its tracks.”
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88qk4b/what-the-hell-is-magacommunism
Just out of curiosity, do you have the Canadian Cunt on mute? If not I'm almost curious as to his reply. I always assume bad faith on his part, though there is a possibility that he made a comment on the topic instead of about me. Then again I could get struck by lightning on a golf course on a sunny day, and I don't play golf.
No, I don't mute. Sevo is the only one of them that posts no original content. I thought about muting that worthless asshole.
He called you a "retard", by the way.
That's funny coming from a guy who is so obtuse that his cutting intellect is flat.
Add "obtuse" to the ever expanding list of words Sarcasmic doesn't quite understand but uses in the vain hope of sounding "smart".
I offered to buy him a dictionary and thesaurus once, but he wasn't interested.
And a second one.
ML, see this gem from sarc above?
Words actually mean things
It's repeated here so often that it's like a mantra, but self-awareness isn't one of Sarcasmic's superpowers.
Makes an entire post about someone. Complains they make posts about him. Lol.
Ideas!
"MAGA-Communists"
I love that you guys are running with this. It's an appellation that only works if you buy into a long convoluted explanation backed up by a neocon worldview.
Everyone else who hears it, even if they hate Trump, will be like "What the fuck?".
Leftists still can't meme
It’s a term that makes no sense whatsoever. MAGA and communists are complete, total opposites. It’s a strange oxymoron coming from a total retarded moron.
Neocon agitprop is what it is.
Planning for Soros takeover, ain't they?
Tell us about your support of arresting non violent protestors at j6 again. Tell us about how government censorship was a myth again. Tell us about how it was right to go after meme makers again.
So, since you're directly invoking the words and layman understanding, you obviously favor an originalist/textualist approach, right, not a parsing of Supreme Court precedent? Cool, let's do that, then.
The First Amendment, first off, says Congress is the one that "shall make no law". So, we can be absolutely certain that the First Amendment, as originally enacted, does not bar the states from passing laws establishing religion. This can be seen in original practice, where plenty of states had their own established religions, and the prohibition on Congress acting was not merely prohibiting the establishment of a national church, but also prohibiting interference in the established churches of the states.
So, to apply "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" to the Chicago city council (an instrumentality of the State of Illinois), you need to find an amendment that extends that prohibition to the states. However, the closest thing available is the Fourteenth Amendment. And the Fourteenth Amendment doesn't contain any language that extends all the restrictions on Congress to the states; it specifically deals with things like due process and the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States. It takes a lot of tenuous readings to try to extract an individual privilege, immunity, or due process right to the non-existence of an established religion from the Constitution.
But let's go ahead and imagine that, in fact, the Fourteenth Amendment can be construed to ban Chicago making any law on an establishment of religion without engaging in the sort of utterly ridiculous pseudo-reasoning that passes for "law" on the Supreme Court. Even granted that absurd premise, you have to actually argue that a pre-session prayer is "an establishment of religion", as that was understood when either the First or Fourteenth Amendment was passed. And there's no fucking way to actually make that argument on an originalist/textualist basis; that's not remotely what "establishment of religion" meant in the English language when those amendments were written, however much modern activists might want to adjust what the words mean to suit themselves.
So, any attempt to invoke "establishment of religion" utterly fails on originalist/textualist grounds.
So we move on. Free exercise of religion or freedom of speech are more plausible grounds, because they fit far more naturally as things incorporated by the Fourteenth Amendment. But to assert one or both, the Satanic Temple has to establish that the people doing invocations in front of the City Council are members of the public exercising their personal rights, and thus the City Council is discriminating against the Satanic Temple. If instead the people the City Council chooses are speaking on behalf of the City Council, there's no free exercise or free speech issue, any more than when a public school chooses teachers and a curriculum rather than letting randos walk into schools and lecture the students on their personal hobby horses.
For an obvious contrast, look at the Satanic Temple's case against Scottsdale, where Scottsdale's prayers were on a a first-come-first-served all-comer selection process. When Scottsdale de-scheduled the Satanists due to public outcry, that was, in fact, discrimination against them in a case of free exercise/free speech in what was an open-to-the-public forum.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
There’s an operative word there before shall (14th amendment not withstanding). The fight against any government employee (or affiliation) ever expressing their religion has always seemed rather silly to me. Biden saying the Hail Mary before the Correspondents Dinner is not him establishing Catholicism as the state religion. A coach having the football team take a knee for a moment of silence before the big game isn’t state oppression.
Personally, if some Objectivist wants to read an Ayn Rand passage or an athiest wants to ask FSM to watch over the proceedings, be my guest.
Edit: And I should have finished reading the thread because DRM essentially said the same thing 4 hours ago. Wasn't trying to pile on.
Yeah, the line is when the state either gives the religion money, or tries to coerce people to join. Simply praying , even at a government event, is not an establishment of religion.
Over and over she takes tenuous, or even tendentious, legal arguments and declares them to be “clearly” correct.
Link to an example other than the post above?
Cite?
Show us one example of her carefully going through a legal analysis for a legal claim she's made.
Examples are for arguments against what people say. His argument is against the person. Doesn't need examples.
No cites from you today. Multiple posts talking about other people. Lack of self awareness is still your super power. Lol.
Sure, right here, the one I was specifically referencing with my comment about "public university professors".
Many of her posts between that one and today have ironclad assertions about the law where the actual law is much vaguer, but basing a legal claim on a decades-old line of dicta in a Warren Court opinion is definitely tenuous bordering on tendentious.
I bow to your legal knowledge and deep memory of Emma Camp's writings.
If Ms. Camp wants to make the moral argument that the Satanic Temple should be allowed to give the invocation, that’s fine
Slight disagreement. If Ms. Camp wants to *try* to make the moral argument, she can. However, the Satanic Temple's tenets are specifically defined such that no logical or moral argument can be made successfully. She can *try* to make a moral or logical argument that "This statement is false." is true or false but the statement is specifically constructed such that she cannot successfully make the argument.
By the tenet "To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own." no invocation that anyone could find offensive should take place, but they aren't suing for that. They're suing so that they can have their own offensive/encroaching invocation, which violates the tenet.
She can invoke the City Council's moral or logical tenets to justify the Satanic Temple's invocation, but then she hasn't abided the Satanic Temple's tenet, she's simply pushed the offense up the teleological chain.
I wonder how little Emma would react NAMBLA formed a church and wanted Shrike to give the invocation at the next town meeting?
Hmm, there’s also the Illinois constitution. The last clause might apply to this scenario:
SECTION 3. RELIGIOUS FREEDOM
The free exercise and enjoyment of religious profession
and worship, without discrimination, shall forever be
guaranteed, and no person shall be denied any civil or
political right, privilege or capacity, on account of his
religious opinions; but the liberty of conscience hereby
secured shall not be construed to dispense with oaths or
affirmations, excuse acts of licentiousness, or justify
practices inconsistent with the peace or safety of the State.
No person shall be required to attend or support any ministry
or place of worship against his consent, nor shall any
preference be given by law to any religious denomination or
mode of worship.
https://twitter.com/KeithWoodsYT/status/1654816252915752961?t=cCvHSpIDRQwo71v4VYwbmw&s=19
It took one of the most influential men in the world talking about Irish hate speech laws for the media to give it any proper coverage, and it's still just as a mouthpiece for government ministers.
Shameful abdication of duty! Government politicians, mainstream media and the NGO complex are all parts of the same regime. Where is the voice for the 81% of Irish people who want #NoHateSpeechLaw
[Link]
Where are those 81% of the Irish? Fucked, like always.
https://twitter.com/realBixterN/status/1654495793124974601?t=xYaWaHoXlpe0PkZlD-jL4Q&s=19
Story Time.
Long ago, in the Before Time, when I was working in an auto shop one summer during my college years, I was at a McD's getting lunch when a Young Scholar of a Neely-ish Persuasion came shambling in and was walking around harassing diners.
People were generally ignoring him, but he was being loud, aggressive, and confrontationally odorous. McD's staff told him to leave, but otherwise did nothing when he refused.
A family of tourists came in: grandparents, parents, and 4 young kids. Obvious out-of-towners.
They sat down at a big round table like you used to find in places like this, and piled up their various purses, bags, etc. In the middle while the grandpa and dad went to get food, women and children happily chatting.
The Fragrant Scholar took notice of this immediately.
I could see him focus his gaze on the pile in the middle of the table from across the room. He moved in toward it.
By the time he reached the tourists, I was already starting to stand up, like a reflex action. I just knew what was going to happen.
Thus, I was already on my feet when the Boisterous Youth reached between two kids, snatched the womens' purses from the pile, and bolted for the door.
Without thinking about it, I immediately launched after him.
Keep in mind: this was back when we still had a partly-functioning society.
Also, I was young still. Full of piss and vinegar. College athlete. Hormones rushing. IMMORTAL.
And I had been raised in a moral schema in which the strong were supposed to protect the weak.
I caught him in the parking lot.
Just as I would do on the field, I hit him from behind on the sprint, full force tackle in the small of his back.
He went down on the hot asphalt, hard. The purses went flying.
The impact caught him completely by surprise, stunned.
He recovered quickly, but not before I got him into a full submission hold: full nelson pressing his face into the pavement and a leg lock preventing him from flipping out of it.
He started thrashing, fighting desperately to escape. The stink was overwhelming.
Other patrons from the restaurant came flooding out to see what was happening. Thank God this was before cell phone video.
One of them yells "he's got a knife!"
OH SHIT.
The Aspiring Rapper had managed to get a hand back to his jacket during the struggle and had a knife.
Fortunately, another guy came up and stomped down hard on the knife hand. The blade went skittering under a car.
I had the tiger by the tail. No fucking way was I letting go of this shithead until he was fully under arrest and cuffed.
So I tightened my hold, locked him down.
He kept fighting back, but I had him. The restaurant had called the cops, so I squeezed until he went slack.
And we waited.
So, when I see that video of the NYC subway incident, I can relate to what is going through the minds of the three young men who subdued Neely.
I thought maybe the Fragrant Scholar had gone unconscious, but every time I shifted my hold he would start to fight back again.
Finally, the cops arrived, screeching up with sirens blaring.
With the arrival of Five-O, the fight finally went out of him. He went totally slack.
The cops grab him and I finally let go. He gets cuffed and shoved into the cop car.
Police take witness statements. The tourist family are very grateful. I get hugs and handshakes.
The manager of the McD's gets my name and I ate free there for a month.
I was late back to work.
A few months later, I got a very official package in the mail. It was an official police commendation with a hand-written thank you note from the mayor. This was in a major American city, mind you.
Compare that to our modern race-baiting auto-da-fés and media struggle sessions.
That America is gone, within my lifetime.
Would I hope my son would do the same now? Absolutely not, under any circumstances.
Let the Vibrant Youf go. It's not worth the risk of having your whole life destroyed because of political bullshit and malicious prosecution.
And that's why this country is finished.
A civilization stands on the strength and will to action of pro-social young men who will charge into the breach to protect the innocent, knowing society will stand with them on the side of righteousness.
Not now. Not anymore.
I always chuckle at how many perps are an "aspiring rapper". Must be 8 of 10.
He was just starting to think about beginning to prepare to try to get his life together.
Yeah, the world is fucked. Short of burning the Commies at the stake, I don't know how to fix it.
The let’s burn the commies at the stake. Why shouldn’t we? They are soulless Marxists who would do worse to you, and your family.
The Ukrainian people are doing this to Putin and his Putineers, so rest assured, the spirit of resistance to thuggery is not dead yet.
Yeah, but too much of the US population has been conditioned to love the state and fear scary words (let alone guns).
https://twitter.com/geoffschwartz/status/1654813893028462593?t=ALgwaaHicjUpUTKajEv7rQ&s=19
My wife recorded the coronation on two channels. She just turned on two TVs to watch the coronation. She’s treating the TVs like it’s NFL Sunday.
I’ve never seen her more excited for anything on TV. This is what I must look like when I’m watching Oregon football.
I hope Fatass Donnie missed the coronation. He would want something like that when he steals the 2024 election.
"TRUMP!!!"
What size crown would he need for that massive melon?
Not Biden or Kamala's, that's for sure. The hatter could create their coronets using the sharp end of a pin for a head mannequin.
I don’t know Kiddie Raper. What size does your dumb ass think he wears?
Weekend Buttplug doesn't try very hard.
Maybe he's only getting 25 cents instead of the usual 50 cents.
He’s too drained from marathon jack off sessions to his child lorn stash.
A comment about the coronation and of course, Reason’s resident dipshit brings up what no one talked about in the comment. Dude, you got a strange fixation on Trump and a severe case of TDS.
It's funny that you continue to bleat about this like he didn't leave the White House on the appointed day at the appointed time.
Him beating Hillary really upset your fragile little brain.
Holy Hell, you are obsessed.
But if the only thing on is the NFL the tvs would be off
"Contrary to popular belief, members of the group don't actually worship Satan. Instead, they follow a series of seven "tenants" focused on broad ideas of compassion, rationalism, and freedom."
Contrary to popular belief, Star Trek fans don't actually enjoy Star Trek. Instead, they follow completely unrelated Sci Fi series and just push the Star Trek part to be dicks to Star Wars fans.
This kind of LARPing Satanism (as opposed to the real thing) is about being mad at Daddy and trying your best to be offensive. It's teenage attention-whoring, trolling and dickery by people hoping to goad a fuddy duddy into trying to give them a good talking to.
And despite their pretension, actual compassion, rationalism, and freedom isn't opposed by any popular religion (even Islam). However, actual Satanism, if it existed, by it's historical definition and context would oppose them. These guys seem to have mistakenly thought that the backstory for Satan in Milton's Paradise Lost was the same as in religious texts, and ran with it.
This Church of Satan seems tailor made for callow guys like Shrike.
Don't want to get ignored and ghosted like a troll? Don't antagonize everyone, even people who don't really oppose you, like a troll.
The Good Samaritan takes on a decidedly different tone when the Jewish Traveler spends his time flinging shit at everyone who passes by both before and after a beat down. The Levites and Priests would be wrong to beat him, but the Samaritan would be doing *everyone* a disservice by patching him up just so he could resume flinging shit at everyone.
And despite their pretension, actual compassion, rationalism, and freedom isn’t opposed by any popular religion (even Islam).
In what Universe? And especially Islam, whose name in Arabic means "Submission?"
And religion is still the majority, both in the U.S. and the entire Planet, so where's the compassion, rationalism, and freedom, y'all?
ECONOMY SMOKING HOT !!!!!
Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway posts $35.5-billion Q1 profit, buys back more stock
The company's income from investments has also bolstered its operating profit, leading to an increase of 13 per cent to $8.07 billion, or about $5,561 per Class A share, compared to $7.16 billion in the same period last year
https://www.businesstoday.in/technology/news/story/warren-buffetts-berkshire-hathaway-posts-355-billion-profit-buys-back-more-stock-380290-2023-05-06
Profits up again at diversified Berkshire
Not a record.
The fact that billionaires, politicians and international corporations have been making bank while the working and middle classes get poorer isn't the economic slam dunk you imagine, Shrike.
All Faggot child Rapist cares about is if his master, Soros, is making money.
Awwwwww, poor Joe Biden.
Created the strongest economy in American history. Shut down the virus. Frightened Putin into submission. Brought the Afghanistan war to a smooth conclusion.
And what does he have to show for it? A low approval rating and many people in his own party admitting they'd prefer a different candidate. 🙁
Must be the media's notorious bias against establishment Democrats. Yeah, that's it. Biden is awesome but CNN MSNBC NYT WaPo HuffPo Reuters have conspired to trick people.
#DefendBidenAtAllCosts
Unless, of course, you're a deranged conspiracy theorist who thinks Biden's numbers are low because he just all-around sucks.
^ Eek! See what I mean? That's Reuters being unfair to the best President ever. Almost as bad as their lies about inflation.
Award winning Journalist, award for capturing the spirit of Jordan. Has this to say.
Matt Viser
@mviser
·
Follow
President Biden to MSNBC on his son Hunter, who is under a Justice Department investigation: "My son has done nothing wrong. I trust him. I have faith in him. It impacts my presidency by making me feel proud of him."
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!
I literally just got a Youtube ad that started with "Inflation is everywhere"?!
Now even Google has joined the conspiracy to lie about the Biden economy!
#BigTechIsInTheTankForGOP2024
I hope you flagged that ad for dis/mis/piss-information.
WHOOPS!
Warren Buffett Predicts Earnings Decline at Berkshire Units
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-06/berkshire-hathaway-boosts-pace-of-share-buybacks-to-4-4-billion#xj4y7vzkg
Is Dominion going to have to give back some of their settlement?
ABC News
@abcnews
·
Follow
Fox News had asked lawyers for Dominion Voting Systems to investigate whether someone from its organisation leaked controversial internal messages from ousted Fox host Tucker Carlson that were provided in evidence for Dominion's recent defamation lawsuit.
Dominion should be put out of business.
“Contrary to popular belief, members of the group don’t actually worship Satan. Instead, they follow a series of seven “tenants” focused on broad ideas of compassion, rationalism, and freedom.”
That’s tenets, not tenants. Though who knows what tenants they’ve aquired after boasting of their Satanism.
They don’t believe in Satan, but if Satan exists, he would believe in them.
Also, it’s Chicago. Satanic invocations at their City Council would be like bringing coals to Newcastle.
“They don’t believe in Satan”
Obviously. Which illustrates that they’re just trying to be dicks rather than practice a religion.
"Also, it’s Chicago. Satanic invocations at their City Council would be like bringing coals to Newcastle."
I mean if Lightfoot wasn't actually Beetlejuice she was doing a remarkable imitation.
That’s tenets, not tenants.
It’s spelled “tenets” in the lawsuit. Camp spelled it “tenants”, but in quotes, which means what? What do you assume it meant? Did you go right for assuming the worst?
It means camp is an idiot.
Yes, Little Emma isn’t very bright.
I "assume" it was "dummy quotes", which are like "scare quotes" except dummy quotes are when the writer doesn't know the correct word and cannot find a quote to support what they want to express.
Why wouldn’t she know the correct word, when the word is right there in the lawsuit that she linked to?
There’s no explanation I’ve heard that makes sense why she wrote “tenants” in quotes, and I certainly see no reason to just assume Camp was being dumb other than it being fashionable among many of the right-leaning commenters here to insult the Reason staff.
Shouldn't you ask her why she did it, not people who noted it?
If she reads the comments and wants to chime in, she can.
I don't care. Apparently, for Margrave and Fudd it's important to comment on her intelligence.
No, I said she misspelled a word.
If you were to ask my view of this error rather than assume it, I’d say that bad editing was the problem. Or maybe the software autofilling function. Careless haste, not inherent stupidity.
Such an accident might happen to anyone, but it’s still hilarious when it does.
Also, the concept of Satanic tenants reminds me of Matthew 12:43-45.
I owe you an apology then.
Yes, it is important. It shows part of why Reason has declined so much, and the direction Reason hiring decisions are taking.
But I get it, as a democrat, you tend not to notice. As your kind fail upwards. So hiring weak, stupid, incompetent people is a plus for you.
I suppose it depends on which branch of Satanism a person adheres to. Luciferianism is probably the most commendable. At best it focuses on enlightenment, reason, and the betterment on one's self for the betterment of mankind. This is the form that tends to rope in casual libertarian leaning people. The problem with this better form is that it is very ego driven and raises selfishness as the greatest virtue.
The rest of Satanism is basically the inversion of Christian morality wherein the 7 deadly sins become the 7 great virtues.
Basically any form of Satanism is populated by assholes, edgelords, and idiots throwing a childish tantrum. This very article exemplifies it. Satanists like this are the same as the gay wedding cake people. They seek out people to piss off and then sue them and use their principles against them. Emma either doesn't know any of this or she is the same kind of asshole who hates that religion exists
"Emma either doesn’t know any of this or she is the same kind of asshole who hates that religion exists"
I'm guessing the former. This is the Barely Legal Edition of TeenReason after all.
"Basically any form of Satanism is populated by assholes, edgelords, and idiots throwing a childish tantrum."
So, like every religion ever?
With 2.3 billion Christians, 1.9 billion Muslims, 1 billion Hindus and 500 million Buddhists, the world would be far more puerile and annoying place if they actually all acted like American "Satanists".
There are almost no satanists. Their expectation of representation is absurd. This is not like if they were Jews or Hindu that made up a significant minority percentage of the town.
I dunno. Satanists seem to be fighters against state establishment of religion, using trolling as their tactic. Not what I would choose to do with my time, but well within the American tradition of defending our Constitutional rights.
Crusading against the Christian majority slipping into complacency about violations of separation of church and state is not the same thing as hating that religion exists.
But it’s not the correct religion.
Emma is a typical leftist
Young and wet behind the ears too.
I was wondering whether that misspelling was the reporter's or the subject's. It took about 30 seconds to find out that it was the reporter:
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/about-us
https://twitter.com/julie_kelly2/status/1654827531483361280?t=CVnDDwo1ncI2DUI4qTiswA&s=19
This is [100%] behind all criminal prosecutions related to 2020 election and Jan 6. DOJ, Willis and others successfully criminalizing any inquiries into election fraud. Any protest after another rigged election will be considered an unlawful uprising, punished accordingly.
[Link]
Sullum is starting to see the light per yesterday, but bet he gets corrected soon.
Sullum is a completely corrupt whore who actively aids the totalitarian globalist cabal
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1654824763645198336?t=-1MZZBp6Gjq2c7a7ARuJnA&s=19
The US Marine Corps just doxxed the marine involved in the Jordan Neely incident
What happened to the Devil Dogs?
Too busy in DEI training, and neutering the Corps. Its almost like some people want to make the USA subservient to the WEF or CCP or something.
"The City has never formally rejected Minister Adam's request to provide an invocation," the complaint states. "Rather, the City has simply resisted scheduling him for more than three years without providing a definitive answer about whether he will ever be permitted to provide an invocation."
Hopefully they get a judge that tells them to go suck a bag of dicks but, it's Chicago, so who knows.
Don't want to get ignored and ghosted like a troll? Don't literally set up a non-theistic religion based on trolling even agnostic state bureaucrats.
Choose reason. Every time. Be an adult.
Or be a superstitious, bigoted, right-wing slack-jaw; shut the fuck up; and try to stay out of the way of better Americans as they continue to improve our society.
Carry on, clingers. So far as better Americans permit.
You’re a retarded, delusional Marxist obsessively trying to play phonograph records with a peanut.
Carry on Klinger.
Rev, choose is a volitional word not a cognitive word. The Perennial Philosophy on this is "The mind chooses reason and Truth because the Will first posits it as a GOOD" -- yet you oppose the Good as a basis for anything. Got a mirror nearby 🙂
https://twitter.com/amuse/status/1654827174409412608?t=V1fiQTsAEy8RER55S9NZ5Q&s=19
If you ever wondered how far-left activists seize control of cities like San Francisco just follow the money. The city's most corrupt Democrats are allowed to send more than $1.5B each year to nonprofit groups. Honorable Democrats like Catherine Stefani are targeted using taxpayer dollars.
[Link]
Chicago City Council? Wouldn't a Satanic invocation be redundant?
Shouldn't he be working on cities he doesn't already control?
Yes, rather redundant. Chicago City Council makes Mos Eisley Spaceport look like a shining example of clean and good government.
(To paraphrase) Satan: "If I owned both Chicago and Texas, I would rent out Chicago and live in Texas."
It is an invocation, most people will not even pay attention to it. How many people pray to Jesus and never pay any attention to what he said? There are many religious people in this world and I suspect that most would have little problem with the invocation. Those complaining the loudest likely left religion behind long ago.
The devil made them do it.
Flip Wilson as Geraldine would make a super invocation. 🙂
Flip Wilson - The Devil made me buy this dress!
https://youtu.be/6NASl_Qy2sc
Why should this happen at all? If this group represented a significant portion of the town, then they would have a complaint. They aren’t. They’re just vicitm bullies.
American does not have a state sponsored church and we were taught that religious freedom was a right of all, not the majority. If a religious invocation is used at the start of the meeting, then any group should be able to request that it give that invocation. Are you suggesting that Jews, or Catholics if not in a majority should not be allowed to give the invocation? What about Moslems, Hindus, or Buddhists?
Moderation, NEVER argue an actual fact with an counter-factual.
Let's see if the Church of Cyntherian Reptiles does lodge a suit.
But back to earth, this is not about Moslems. or Hindus, or Buddhists....OKAY
Can't you report on someplace in the world where religious liberty is actually suppressed? Instead we get a story about a group trying to inflict a ceremony on a city council that nobody on the council wanted, and that nobody else would pay attention to.
DON’T TALK ABOUT THE FIRST AMENDMENT!
Why?
Mike wants you to think he's being sarcastic but he actually really means it.
California fining a church over 1M during covid? Portland disallowing religious groups to be adoptive parents?
Well, since you think it's all right to submit to the horrors of slavery to avoid the horrors of war, what voice do you have in this or anything else concerning Libertarianism. Go chop-chop and chop crop and forget you ever heard the word Libertarianism.
Clergy from a wide range of religious backgrounds have given these invocations, and a Satanist minister wants to join their ranks. But the city has refused to let him—and refused to explain the decision.
That must really get his goat.
"and refused to explain the decision."
It's easy. Because you don't actually believe in Satan and you just want to troll?
The Satanic Temple is a nontheistic religion that, as noted by the lawsuit, is "federally recognized as a church and a religious public charity." Contrary to popular belief, members of the group don't actually worship Satan.
It’s easy. Because you don’t actually believe in Satan and you just want to troll?
I see you are fine with government deciding which religious are serious religions and which are satirical, parody, cults, trolling, or just too nuts to be allowed the same benefits as the serious ones. At least, you are fine with it as long as your religion is in the majority and gets to make those decisions.
"I see you are fine with government deciding which religious are serious religions and which are satirical, parody, cults, trolling"
Who said anything about the government deciding. You would have noticed they fucking said it themselves if you would have read the article, you moron.
"members of the group don’t actually worship Satan."
For fuck's sake, Sarcasmic-tier sophistry is spreading here and infecting others.
You would have noticed they fucking said it themselves if you would have read the article, you moron.
Did they? You might want to read it again. The author asserts that they don't actually believe in Satan as conceived by Christians, which is probably correct, even though she doesn't provide direct evidence of that. But it is your opinion that they are just trolling. What you consider to be trolling, they might think is a serious point about freedom of religion. For all you know, they could be quite sincere in their beliefs.
For fuck’s sake, Sarcasmic-tier sophistry is spreading here and infecting others.
Well, I was probably too flippant, but I am trying to get you and others to think about what you are saying and what it implies. If the city council and its officials can just ignore the request of the Satanic Temple after deciding for themselves that it is not sincere in its religious beliefs, then why couldn't it do the same for something you would consider to be a 'real' religion? Perhaps you are relying on the assumption that anything you believe to be a real religion will always be accepted as such by a majority and thus wouldn't get that kind of dismissive treatment by government. If so, then that would illustrate exactly why such distinctions shouldn't be the government's to make.
https://twitter.com/MysteryGrove/status/1654983838127345670?t=3rsIw7ozjWRr4OfLngwEMg&s=19
Again, the only way this problem gets solved is if all these people start getting separated from society in large numbers. Allow them to reach critical mass and they’re going to kill a lot of people.
It’s pure antisocial behavior. They already have control over everything there, now they’re shutting down infrastructure because they can. The fact that they’re nominally doing it to support locking up an innocent man for no reason is just the cherry on top.
After the 1905 Revolution Russia saw a surge in political violence. 9000 people were killed by terrorists in 3 years—the victims were low-level gov't officials and bystanders. No one would think they would be targets. This violence had widespread support from liberal politicians.
This huge spike in murders was followed by a massive surge in other violent crimes as well. Russian Interior Minister Pyotr Stolypin instituted judicial reforms that led to the speedy trial and execution of terrorists/organizers whose guilt wasn't substantively in dispute.
3,000 terrorists were executed in a country of 100 million. About 20,000 were given lengthy prison terms or some kind of internal exile. In a year violence dropped to 1/3 of what it once was. Public support disappeared when people saw this behavior would not be indulged anymore.
Testament to the success of the policy that Lenin returned to Russia after the 1905 Revolution but quickly fled the country again after hearing of Stolypin's hard line. You don't have to be monstrous, but if you don't adopt a firm hand with these people they'll take everything.
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I hope they try it in Laredo. These Satanic groups used to worry me that by palling up to the LP they'd give us a bad rep. But if they might exorcize Alabammy Anschluss MAGA girl-bulliers, it's worth a try.
Beelzebubian hotshots from the Silver State are teaching the GeeOhPee what hell's own rector won't. And when it comes time to start the Sacrifice of the Virgins on the altar of Comstock's calamity the old Libertarian Lasso Party will say "Yes Sir!'
Too understated
Fuck them and the horse they rode in on. I’m a Libertarian but nice and stupid are brothers.
The only only ones nice and stupid here are the Chicago Aldermen who think prayer can help their Windy Shitty.
Elected officials believe and do a lot of really stupid things, but right at the top of the list is thinking they need guidance from an imaginary fairy who magically created the world in a week.
They've done it forever and look how well it's worked out for us. 🙂
Because a week for God is really only 168 hours.
Can you contemplate what time is for an entity that is immortal and omnipresent?
No omniscience?
Didn't wish to risk spelling errors.
"Can you contemplate what time is for an entity that is immortal and omnipresent?"
We'd have to ask Cher. She can turn back time.
That the talentless hack had a career at all is a gift from God.
"tenants," really? Not tenets? Speaka da English?
English is racism.
More racist than Welsh?
Sarc standard - if you criticized the left, you're a conservative trump cultists. If he defends the left he is the one true libertarian.
He shouldn't waste taxpayer money like that. He should quietly and neatly execute himself. Though he probably couldn't get that right either.
What do you think is worse? A willing shill who writes this crap for token payments, or an idiot zealot who thinks he is winning the crusades?
Fifty cents.
ABC said the settlement did indeed have that wording. To destroy or make unavailable findings from discovery.
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After more than three decades of online discussion (I remember discussing the Perot and Tsongas candidacies for President with libertarians back on Prodigy in early 1992), I do not expect to ever convince the person I'm replying to on any topic. (It has actually happened a few times, which is always a happy surprise.)
Instead, my hope is that by demonstrating good-faith engagement and logical argument, I can nudge the occasional third party reading the exchange to think more clearly.
And, hey, every once in a while, I get caught in an actual mistake, and I come out thinking more clearly than when I went in, which is a nice benefit.
Wait, you have "scam" right in your URL?
Points for truth in advertising, anyway.