New York Governor Gauging Support for Full Ban on All Cigarette Sales
Kathy Hochul isn't just waging a war on menthols. She's also floating a ban on all cigarette sales in the state.

An explosive new report by the New York Post revealed on Saturday that New York Gov. Kathy Hochul, a Democrat, appears to be considering a full ban on the sale of tobacco products.
The director of the state Health Department's Bureau of Tobacco Control recently distributed a poll to local legislators and community leaders filled with questions meant to gauge support for prohibition. "What is your opinion about a policy that would end the sale of all tobacco products in New York within 10 years?" asked one question. "What is your opinion about a policy that would ban the sale of all tobacco products to those born after a certain date? For example, those born after the year 2010 or later would never be sold tobacco," asked another.
"I've never seen anything like this where [the state] uses this kind of focus grouping, alliance building, momentum building," an Albany insider told the New York Post, indicating that Hochul's administration was considering a full ban, something a Health Department spokesman denied.
But it's not crazy to imagine Hochul pursuing all-out prohibition, for which this poll sure looks like a trial balloon. Hochul is currently in state budget negotiations, where she and fellow Democrats have been working out a ban on menthol sales as well as a $1-per-pack tax increase on all cigarettes sold in the state. (The average price of a pack of cigarettes in New York state is $11.96. In the city, that number is higher; I was charged $18 for a pack of cigarettes last week in Manhattan.)
A menthol ban, Hochul said last month, is supposed to prevent New Yorkers from going down "the path of a lifetime of smoking addiction." Such bans are in vogue right now: The Biden administration has been toying with a national crackdown, directing the Food and Drug Administration last year to draft regulations, which came on the heels of a 2020 ban on the sale of some flavored vaping cartridges.
"Caught in the middle are Black smokers, who smoke menthol cigarettes at higher rates than white smokers, and are the main group the ban is meant to help," wrote The New York Times' Luis Ferré-Sadurni yesterday. "Decades of aggressive marketing by tobacco companies have caused Black smokers to consume menthol cigarettes, whose cooling sensation on the throat makes them more appealing and addictive."
Setting aside the fact that sentences like those above deny black smokers any semblance of free will, Hochul and her Department of Health should think twice before adding new categories to the list of banned products. Though making cigarettes harder to access would possibly have the effect of reducing smoking uptake, those who do continue to smoke would most likely end up paying more for black-market products (while also running the risk that such products, like vaping cartridges, be tainted with adulterants).
It was, after all, New York state's prohibition on selling loosies—single cigarettes without tax stamps—that led to Eric Garner, a black man, being placed in a deadly chokehold by New York City Police Department officer Daniel Pantaleo in 2014. Had New York never regulated the selling of loosies (or raised cigarette taxes so high during the Bloomberg administration, which loosie vendors say led to a noticeable increase in demand for their products), Garner might not have been hassled—and ultimately, brutally killed—by a cop.
Prohibitions, after all, are enforced at gunpoint. And even prohibitions that don't result in police chokeholds can have all kinds of unintended consequences—like the bans on certain vaping products, which are successfully used as smoking cessation tools by tons of smokers who are looking to quit. (Much of the research linking vaping to lung diseases has been shoddily constructed, with causal links too hastily drawn, as Reason's Jacob Sullum has documented over and over again.)
What seems well-meaning to Times writers and Hochul staffers seems to libertarians like a disturbing opportunity for the state to wield power in new ways against the least well-off.
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Setting aside the fact that sentences like those above deny black smokers any semblance of free will
That's a pretty big boulder to set aside.
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New Yorkers love leaders with a strong sense of authority, who don't let little things* get in their way of accomplishing big things.
*procedure, due process, people's lives....
Prohibitions are obviously good ideas and so effective. That's why alcohol is no longer manufactured, much less consumed, and the War on Drugs was an overwhelming success. [/sarc]
Will this ban include the construction and staffing of border stations on all roads crossing into New York, with vehicle inspections and sniffer dogs? Will these be set up just on thoroughfares, or also on unpaved rural roads with high speed chases by "revenooers" after "bootleggers" who dodge the border checkpoints? Hot damn, I can't wait for the movies that can be made.
And while we're at it, what will be the penalties for bootlegging cigs into the state? And how much can the bootleggers get for a pack or carton of North Carolina cigs? (Asking for a friend, you understand.)
NC smugglers already make a killing sending their low-tax tobacco wares to high-tax New York. If an outright ban goes through, they’ll ramp up smuggling even more, with some adulterating the smokes with stuff that will kill even faster.
Meanwhile, tobacco sellers in NC will need to lock cigarettes in steel vaults to prevent heists by organized crime muscling in on the game.
Ah, but Prohibitionists just mean so well…
Gotta ban something.
To ban all these cancer sticks for adults at all ages might be good . No age discrimination at all . All we need to ban LGBTQ+ propaganda to minors who are not at least 18 .
LGBTQ+
Little short on some letters there...
And some numbers as well.
LGBTQMAP+
STILL missing letters. It's April for God's sake, not March.
What does smoking have to do with LGBTQ? Not everybody smokes after sex, no matter how they swing, and fewer smoke now than ever. And I myself would only want non-smoking partners. Nicotine in the sheets is just raunchy.
And would merely spelling out the acronym LGBTQ constitute "propaganda?"
Another good reason to lay off the nicotine is that it cuts off blood flow to the brain. *Hint! Hint!*
"Decades of aggressive marketing by tobacco companies have caused Black smokers to consume ... cigarettes."
Government - where fantasies and wishes replace factual evidence and actual outcomes don't matter.
It is something when they clearly express their condescension and contempt for the ordinary person and deny their status as adults.
Prohibition has worked out so well every other time it's been tried.
Just ask Al Capone.
That wasn't REAL prohibition, man!
Politicians like Hochul do not believe the people have free will, or if they do have it, then they most certainly should not be allowed to exercise it. Those louts are likely to make choices the anointed elites in all their slplendor and wisdom would not. Those elites will give their "help" whether the louts want it or not.
"The free man owns himself. He can damage himself through eating or drink. If he does, he is certainly a damn fool, and may possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog." - Chesterton
it's not just hochul. It's millions and millions of normie voters as well.
Oh, yes. Certainly.
Politicians like Hochul do not believe in free will. Or freedom of thought either.
I've posted this many times, but it must keeps coming up:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”
― C.S. Lewis, God in the Dock: Essays on Theology (Making of Modern Theology
Since then, no one has said it any better.
But weed smoke? That's medicine!
NThey’ll just raise taxes on weed to make up for all the lost cigarette tax revenue, then look the other way when the black market takes over, until crime becomes enough of a problem that they decide they need to ban weed again too.
Weed taxes are too high in many states to suppress the black markets. And black market grow operations destroy the environment where they are located.
This has been one of the most mind-bending aspects of living in the modern Doublethink world. There's articles popping up in major news publications over the last year touting smoking weed and exercising. You can google hundreds of examples but Reason will only let me link to one per post. It's just an enormous "wtf". I grew up in a world where Joe Camel had to be erased because a cartoon can only be used to sell death sticks to children but now smoking a blunt is gOoD fOr YoU?
I want someone to stop this crazy train. I'd like to get off.
I don't know that anyone is suggesting a blunt is good for you, what with the tobacco and all. And I agree that it is weird and somewhat absurd to be embracing cannabis while further demonizing tobacco.
But I think there is also good reason to believe that tobacco is considerably more harmful than moderate pot smoking.
Here's a crazy idea, maybe we should stop trying to use the force of government to regulate the choices people make on what kinds of substances to consume.
That reason being decades of dishonest propaganda attacking tobacco
First they came for cigarettes
and I did not care
for I did not smoke
Then they came for......
I'm seeing the opposite. The establishment media... now that it's become far more normalized, is doing what they always do:
If it moves, tax it, if it keeps moving, regulate it, if it stops moving...
So they are going to act like the previous 4 decades weren't full of warnings (often exaggerated) about the health effects of marijuana? That no one had any idea that we weren't legalizing something that was perfectly safe and healthy in every way?
100% safe and effective with no downsides!
Waitwaitwait...WHAT "loosely regulated marijuana marketplace"???
Where the fuck are you seeing THAT?
"learning delays in adolescents" - it has not been legalized anywhere that I know of for adolescents so probably not a good idea to include that as a reason to regulate. An adult should be free to balance the pros and cons and make their own decision (i.e. does my quality/enjoyment of life as enhanced by the devil's weed exceed my concern about dying in a choking fit due to loss of oxygen?). Only I should make that choice.
Let's not forget all the hyper-speed hand-wringing about gas stoves a few months ago. IIRC the amount of carbon monoxide in a joint is like 3x that of tobacco, can you imagine what it is compared to a gas stove?
SCIENCE BITCH!
Of course (i) more people vape than smoke joints (and despite extremist articles to the contrary, vaping does not result in significant CO inhalation); and (ii) people don't smoke as much marijuana as they do tobacco - in part due to the much higher THC levels that are available now.
https://www.the-hospitalist.org/hospitalist/article/122162/e-cigarette-smokers-less-exposed-carbon-monoxide
This is all straight out of WHOs global tobacco ban by 2030. What the gov is doing here is inviting localities to start banning tobacco products, then once there is a critical mass, there will be a state ban. That’s how prohibitionists work. At least the cat is out of the bag now-2
Proving once again that Democrats only care about one choice and have never actually cared about bodily autonomy.
Democrats care about two choices: abortion and gender identity
Touche.
I've been told that crime is down in NY, and it's just a perception thing. More laws are the solution!
The numbers are down (maybe).
For some wide-eyed consumers of government claims, this must mean crime is down. No. Other. Possible. Explanation.
Because statistics cannot be manipulated. If the government has a number, it means what they tell you it means.
and i thought cuomo was a meglomaniac
You were right. It's just Hochul is one as well. Also, doesn't Hochul sound like a pokemon?
The first thing I saw at the top of this page was UGLY!
New York Gov. Kathy Hochul, a Democrat, appears to be considering a full ban on the sale of tobacco products.
Gov. Kathy Hochul…at the Planned Parenthood of Greater New York’s virtual press conference on medication abortion rulings…“We’ll continue to open our arms to all people seeking freedom and autonomy”
Does she want brown and black humans dying or not?
The hypocrisy is strong in this one.
Does she want brown and black humans dying or not?
Only in the womb.
Two nations that got rid of all tobacco trash , Bhutan and Turkmenistan .
Black smokers, who smoke menthol cigarettes at higher rates than white smokers, and are the main group the ban is meant to help,
"help"
It's just mindboggling this would even be considered so soon after the state legalized cannabis sales. Would marijuana cigarets be exempt from the ban?
As long as they're not menthol, yes.
This is from the same governor who wants to ban all gas appliances. She won about 53% of the vote and in guessing that many of the voters who helped re-elect her use some form of tobacco and/or have a gas appliance. This appealing to a narrow minority of Bay Area wannabe democrats is not a long term success strategy.
who helped re-elect her use some form of tobacco and/or have a gas appliance.
ON the former, I doubt it, on the latter, possibly.
I wonder what the voting breakdown comparing NYC to the rest of the state looks like for that election.
Here ya go:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_New_York_gubernatorial_election#/media/File%3A2022_New_York_gubernatorial_election_results_map_by_county.svg
About what I expected.
How can we get all the big cities to form separate city-states and let the rest of most states live like sane people?
Now that is not only an excellent, but absolutely necessary idea.
Poorer democrats, like those in NYC, are much more likely to smoke than college educated progs and make up a bigger share of the electorate
Yes, and thank God for those college educated progs who are helping those poorer democrats live their best life. Especially the black and brown ones who were so easily duped by the tobacco companies and their conspirators.
I tend to believe they are all masochists to some degree.
Or just plain stupid. Like the women who won't leave their abusive husbands. Or vice versa.
Not being tobacco products I don't imagine a ban on sales of tobacco products would apply.
Vapes aren't tobacco either and yet...
Bees are now fish.
As long as they're not bears in trunks.
But arguably are tobacco products. More so than weed, anyway.
Would cannabinol vapes be exempt? Or flavor-only, as long as it's not menthol?
I'm sure the liberal legal establishment is preparing its argument that the Constitution's penumbras and emanations will not permit this blatant assault on bodily autonomy.
#ProChoiceOnSmoking
#(EvenThoughIHateTheSmell)
Who would have thought there'd be a day when marijuana is more socially acceptable than tobacco.
It's been that way in California and some other places for quite some time now.
When I lived in Boulder they passed an ordinance against tobacco in restaurants. Had a greater penalty than marijuana. So I’d light up joints in bars just to be a dick.
Who in the 80s saw that coming?
.. just to be a dick.
No surprise there.
Who would have thought there’d be a day when marijuana is more socially acceptable than tobacco.
Predicted.
Murray Rothbard and Joe Haldeman, 50 years ago.
Me, a decade ago, after a trip to Colorado.
Banning fast food and snacks, including soft drinks, would be healthier for more people than banning cigarettes. Banning automobiles would save more money in health-care costs and damage to the environment than banning cigarettes. Since most accidents happen at home, it would be safer to ban houses as well. There's no end to the things you could ban "for your own good" if you put your mind to it.
Sports. Lots of people get injured playing sports. And then the costs are socialized. Ban any optional activity that statistically increases the average person's risk of injury or death.
These are all in the pipeline.
Junk food doesn't need to be banned, just take it off food stamp coverage.
But food deserts! or something.
We should just put everyone into a maximum security prison to be on the safe side.
Are you sure we aren't already headed in that direction?
From what I saw during the COVID lockdowns, there are lots of people who would be delighted to live in a maximum security prison, with the death penalty for those who don’t comply with the rules…
Yeah, I recall an article that speculated how many miserable souls were delighted that no one else could go out. I suppose they rationalized that they then lived an isolated life because they had to.
From what I've read, maximum security prisons aren't all that safe.
Vote for fascists, get fascism.
Leave NY or get used to it.
The two worst things from a Libertarian perspective: prohibition and age-of-consent laws (an arbitrary government dictat that "you have to be X years old to undertake this activity")
Is fucking kids better when you're high?
Damn dude, you're the only one obsessed about that topic - got something you're hiding you want to share with the rest of us?
That's three strikes - you win MUTE.
This guy repeatedly and explicitly calls for legalizing sex with kids, and I'M the one with the "obsession".
Only poor old people smoke
No one will smoke in NY
Everyone in NY will soon be rich and young.
By some estimates, 80 percent of the cigarettes sold in New York City are sold illegally, either over the counter or in the backrooms of bodegas where a typical pack can sell for as little as $8 or $9 instead of the usual $13." [ABC 7]
Yup, market working!
This is not about results, but politico-moral high ground. IOW, it may still be happening and we can't do anything about it, but I said so, so there.
Sure because historically prohibition has worked so well..lol. There are already tobacco stores at every spot where you cross the border into PA. Would just be big business for them and more tax dollars for PA.
I mean what could go wrong here??????
New York would simply place state police cars on the other side of the border and inspect every vehicle that left Pennsylvania.
I can't imagine the consequences of being caught with illegal smokes.
I'm a militant non-smoker and strongly disagree with the concept of a tobacco ban. In fact the thought makes me want a smoke after 30ish tobacco-free years. Smokers Lives Matter, even if they're shorter.
Not since Mayor Bloomberg's attempt to ban large soft drinks in 2012, one would then think the idea of banning a consumable good would never occur again.
Kathy Hochul proved them wrong. A graduate from a low level non de script law school, somehow paved the way for her entry into the dirty sewer of New York politics.
By all means ban all tobacco products in the state and see how well that works. Of course the radical leftists wil support her as it means just another step towards the tyranny of the left wing neo-Marxists. If they can ban smoking, then guess what they'll ban next. well, it won't be ice cream. Then soon they will be making all your decisions for you.
Only an idiot would start smoking these days. It's a horrible habit. But how is the government responsible for saving us from ourselves? Banning cigarettes is absurd.
NY’ers will respond to this ban just like they did with the magazine capacity ban.
Massive Non-Compliance.
Non Serviam.
"My body, my choice" only applies in certain situations.
You can still smoke. Just plan to drive to Jersey if you want to.
The menthol ban in the UK starts on 1 May. It's already illegal to pray silently in some places and one may be prosecuted for wrong speak. I suppose the U.S. Constitution will soon have provisions for a monarch.
As when the British aristocrat, Prince Harry, remarked during one of his many visits: "the First Amendment is just bonkers."
Got to hand it to him though; at least he seems to respect that family tradition.
Ah, yes, the Royals…what a blessing upon humanity that God gave us royalty.
Sarc alert
That’s funny… And all this time I thought it was the puritan Republicans war on ‘icky’ habits. Nope; not anymore. Now the Democrats are pushing the puritan BS.
As long as Democrats are in control, they are very happy with government prohibitions. And they are invariably for your own stupid good.
Personally, I approve of Hochul's plan. Ban tobacco sales in NY and let's see what happens. Laboratories of democracy and all that.
Oh, and make sure ALL New Yorkers are properly jabbed, punched and beaten. For their own good and to flatten the curve.
Let NY ban tobacco. That's choice for you.
If I were the gov, I’d suggest providing free flavored vapes to all registered cigarette addicts in conjunction with a ban on cigarettes. The health benefits would make up for the cost. Substitution by vaping is the only way the horror of cigarettes can be removed.
How people should cope with stress in that case? I know that many people smoke cigarettes when they're nervous, and cannabis smoking is even better, especially when it comes to curing mental issues. I bumped into getgreen weed dispensary recently, and now that's the best way for me to cope with anxiety and stress. If smoking gets banned, the situation with mental health will be even worse.