No, the U.S. Shouldn't Wage War Against Mexican Cartels
There's little reason to believe that any of the tactics Republican politicians are proposing would be effective in keeping fentanyl out of the country.

Diplomatic tensions are rising between the United States and Mexico as some American politicians push for military action against cartels south of the border. Those calls come amid rising fentanyl overdose deaths and a kidnapping incident that left two Americans dead in Matamoros, Tamaulipas, last week.
Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R–Texas) wondered why "we still haven't declared the cartels a military target" and pushed to "authorize military force against them." Sen. Lindsey Graham (R–S.C.) called for the military "to go after these organizations wherever they exist" in order "to destroy drug labs that are poisoning Americans"—not "to invade Mexico" or "shoot Mexican airplanes down," he clarified. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R–Ga.) questioned why "we're fighting a war in Ukraine, and we're not bombing the Mexican cartels." Rep. James Comer (R–Ky.) said it was "a mistake" that former President Donald Trump didn't bomb "a couple of fentanyl labs, crystal meth labs" in Mexico, referring to Trump's alleged interest in launching missiles into Mexico to wipe out the cartels.
The idea has spread like wildfire, and it's already inspiring legislation. But there's little reason to believe that any of these tactics would be effective against Mexican cartels (to say nothing of the violations of national sovereignty and likely collateral damage they would cause). Combining the war on drugs with the war on terror is a recipe for an expensive and ineffective mess of foreign engagement.
One Mexico hawk, Rep. Mike Waltz (R–Fla.), has said the U.S. has a proven track record when it comes to fighting drug cartels with military might. "We've done this before," he said in January. "We had Plan Colombia then. We had special operations training." Plan Colombia had counternarcotics and counterterrorism elements and cost the U.S. roughly $12 billion between 2000 and 2021.
As Cato Institute Policy Analyst Daniel Raisbeck has written for Reason, Plan Colombia's aid did initially "help the Colombian military to severely weaken the once-formidable [Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)]. But Plan Colombia's anti-narcotics element was an unqualified failure." Per Raisbeck:
By 2006, "coca cultivation and cocaine production levels (had) increased by about 15 and 4 percent, respectively." In 2019, there were more hectares cultivated with coca leaf in Colombia (212,000) than two decades earlier (160,000).
The so-called FARC "dissidents," thousands of fighters who did not demobilize in 2016, still control large swathes of the cocaine business. They wage constant combat over production areas and export routes against other guerrilla groups and criminal organizations, including several with links to Mexican drug cartels.
American counternarcotics efforts yielded similarly bad results in Afghanistan. The U.S. spent about $9 billion to tackle Afghanistan's opium and heroin production, only for the effort to be "perhaps the most feckless" of "all the failures in Afghanistan," according to The Washington Post's analysis of confidential government interviews and documents. By 2018, Afghan farmers were growing poppies on four times as much land as they were in 2002. Operation Iron Tempest, meant to cripple Afghanistan's opium production labs, folded within a year. "Many of the suspected labs turned out to be empty, mud-walled compounds," noted the Post.
The war on drugs has helped turn Latin America into the most violent region in the world. Criminalization has led to the proliferation of black market activity, a boom in many countries' prison populations, and increased corruption across Latin America. It's also contributed to a huge number of homicides: At least half of the violent deaths in Colombia, El Salvador, Honduras, Mexico, and Venezuela are estimated to be drug-related, according to the World Economic Forum.
Despite those failures, many Republicans still want to use war on terror tactics to fight Mexican cartels. In January, Crenshaw and Waltz introduced an Authorization for the Use of Military Force (AUMF), which would let the president "use all necessary and appropriate force" against parties that traffic or produce fentanyl. AUMFs have been the statutory basis for much American military action abroad and have been abused to justify engagements far beyond their initial intent. The cartel-related AUMF could easily see some mission creep.
Sens. Rick Scott (R–Fla.) and Roger Marshall (R–Kan.) also introduced a measure to designate the drug cartels as Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs), which some legal and immigration analysts have suggested could harm asylum seekers and the people who help them. For instance, paying the cartel a ransom could qualify as material support to an FTO, which could bar migrants from entry. It's punishable by up to 20 years in jail.
The increase in overdose deaths among Americans is tragic and obviously a problem. It isn't one that will be solved by fighting the war on drugs just a little bit harder. It certainly isn't one that will be solved by bombing a neighboring country against its wishes, risking further escalation. It requires being realistic about the policies that have made drug use more dangerous. "That starts with bipartisan support for prohibition," writes Reason's Jacob Sullum, "which creates a black market where the quality and potency of drugs are highly variable and unpredictable."
Simply stopping the supply of drugs into the country is an impossible task, as decades of prohibition show. Republicans would be far better off embracing harm-reduction strategies rather than pushing for another episode of military adventurism that is destined to fail.
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Going to war with Mexico is a bad idea because we would win.
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True, it's not like we don't have a proven track record doing that. IIRC, the last major one got us the entire Southwest (minus the Gadsden Purchase).
OTOH, Our military could tell a man from a woman back then. I'm pretty sure both the military and cartels in Mexico still can.
Winning isn't the problem; it is what you do after the win that make a difference. So, what the plan after you win?
add more stars to the flag, start calling Mexicans Americans, and open up many many more resorts
I proposed the idea that the US should annex Mexico in my younger years.
Discussion came up on a drive to a job one day. One of our crew that day was an illegal immigrant who spoke little to no English.
Yadda, yadda, yadda... I had to explain to my boss how I wasn't saying anything bad about Mexicans, that I was talking about the idea of Mexico becoming part of the US as a way to benefit people in both countries, and that I didn't say any of the things the illegal immigrant's lawyer friend said I did.
Which I didn't, as confirmed by a witness, yet I left unmentioned that the problem was the illegal immigrant not understanding fucking English.
That's already been suggested and rejected in 1848.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_of_Mexico_Movement
If I recall correctly, the issue then was slavery and the north not wanting more slave states, which Mexico would be.
Moot point now, let's go get that oil!
The issue was two-fold. 1. The north did not want more slave states, as you state above, and 2. The bulk of Mexico's population, then as now, is in central Mexico. There would be a lot of people to assimilate with a very different culture and language. The US was far more Protestant then. The very empty north of Mexico was easy to take and turn into a part of the US.
Slavery was _not_ legal in Mexico. It was banned soon after they declared independence from Spain, and I doubt the average Mexican would have been happy if it was brought back.
there could be like seven more Phoenixes between Phoenix & Mexico City
" I had to explain to my boss how I wasn’t saying anything bad about Mexicans, that I was talking about the idea of Mexico becoming part of the US as a way to benefit people in both countries, and that I didn’t say any of the things the illegal immigrant’s lawyer friend said I did.
Which I didn’t, as confirmed by a witness, yet I left unmentioned that the problem was the illegal immigrant not understanding fucking English."
Cool story bro
Careful what you wish for, Nardz. After all, the U.S. Government could do to you what Putin is now doing to The Wagner Group:
Russia is using one of Ukraine’s bloodiest battles to decimate the Wagner Group, after its boss started a feud with military leaders, experts sayhttps://www.businessinsider.com/bakhmut-russia-using-battle-decimate-wagner-group-think-tank-says-2023-3
Yep! Ol’ Putie is getting rid of a source of mutiny and at the same time is trying to hide the embarrassing fact that he hired a bunch of Neo-Nazi White Supremacist thugs to do his dirty work in Ukraine.
Have fun in Guadalajara!
😉
Execute the cartels then take half their oil as reparations for oh, so many reasons.
^this guy gets it
The fact is that America is fucking broke. Mexico has been a shitty neighbor and cost us trillions over the years.
Time to to take a little back for our trouble. Especially if we’re going to wipe out the cartels.
The jabronis don't even have nukes
Speaking of shitty neighbors...
Mexico didn't grow cartels for fun. We grew Latin America's cartels with our drug war. We send billions in drug money to them. Our policies caused or greatly exasperated the problems in Mexico, just like we did in Ukraine, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria... And they won't recover and stop spilling their asylum seekers until we change.
What are the Chud words for: "Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which gets filled first?"
🙂
We would win on day one. On day two we would surrender after a hundred million "refugees" swarm across the border.
Going to war with Mexico
Declaring war on the crime lords is not the same thing as going to war with Mexico.
If the Mexican Government didn't want it would be an act of war.
Tough shit. They should have cleaned up their own house. Now they've picked the wrong side.
Go to it. Vaya Con El Vacio!
And if we do, I want their oil in exchange for saving them. Beats having the money go to socialist oligarchs.
We have oil here, no blood and tax treasure required to get it either.
From a practical standpoint, we shouldn't invade our southern neighbor and violate their sovereignty unless we are absolutely sure the drug cartels and the Mexican Government are one and the same (and we aren't).
Mexico has been complaining about straw buyers transporting weapons south for years, just like we have with fentanyl and human trafficking. If these mutual problems are so bad, close the border, police it extensively, suspend trade and travel until both sides have dealt with the problem to each other's mutual satisfaction.
It's too late for that. Neither country has control of its border.
I beg to differ. Mexico has far better control of its borders than we do. You enter Mexico illegally and shit will happen to you if you get caught. Ask the Guatemalans, Hondurans, etc. Fact is the Mexican government encourages people to go north to get rid of them and gets quite a bit of money in return.
But nobody crosses their northern border irregularly without the paid permission of the gangs. The gangs control illegal entry into the US, not the Mexican government.
Why do you think the government keeps out of it? 1) they get paid to stay out, and 2) it's actually beneficial to them to allow it. Don't assume the Mexican government is incapable of doing anything about it; they don't want to do anything.
Don't assume that I assume that. As I said, the Mexican government has chosen which side their on.
As usual Fiona, you missed the entire main point.
If we go to war with Mexico, then we are going to have to kill some Mexicans
Who do they plan to shoot first?
I’m going to say it’s any Mexican soldiers who try to slow down our troops advance on the capital, major cities and airports.
Then I assume we are gonna go out and look for drug labs and blow things up and kill anybody inside the lab.
Since the police chiefs, local mayors, and state governors are all part of the cartels, do you plan to kill them as well?
The local army commanders are also members of one cartel or the other.
OK so we arrest, or kill all of these people as well.
It will take the cartels about one day to recruit new people due to the unbelievable amounts of money to be made feeding the American hunger for drugs.
How do you plan to run the country when the mayors, police chiefs, governors and army commanders are dead or in jail?
And do not forget the homegrown guerrilla resistance that will immediately spring up due to foreigners occupying their country.
These people will be avenging the death of all those mayors, police chiefs, and soldiers we had to kill on the way to taking over.
Average citizens in Mexico are currently unarmed.
I am certain the Chinese, Iranians, and Russians will be glad to ship all the rifles and ammo they need to start sniping at American soldiers and administrators
Have we learned nothing from our 20 year occupation of Iraq and our war in Afghanistan?
Our armed forces are completely incapable of pacifying an occupied country even if a portion of the population supports our occupation.
Hell, the Soviets were unable to pacify Afghanistan even using the most cruel and inhumane tactics.
Good luck to those who suggest invading Mexico.
They are going to need it
Uh, Fiona didn't support war with Mexico. For once, she didn't advocate mass invasion by somebody as a solution to a problem. Let's give her credit for that.
The Trumpistas and Alt-Right/Alt-Lighters are the ones beating the war drum this time. Let's give them Hell for that.
Look at that. Another attack piece against Republicans. Go Reason! Fucking leftists.
It isn't?
Seeing as you're forced to post this multiple times a day, a less idiotic man might pause for some introspection.
"pause for some introspection."
Too busy trying to own the chuds to do that.
Bitch, no one cares what you think. If you’ve got a problem with that, maybe you’ll quit being a pussy and follow through with your threats.
Of course we shouldn't. That would distract from the important fight: spending billions on a proxy war against Russia to punish Putin for cheating Hillary in 2016.
#LibertariansForProxyWars
#StillWithHer
Maybe we can pay Mexicans to fight the Mexicans.
Ah the good old days when republicans cared about freedom, and not just owning the libs.
Caring about freedom is owning the libs.
Going to war in Mexico instead of legalizing drugs is the U.S. "owning" ourselves, and not in the NAP/NIFF sense of self-ownership either.
But wouldn't war increase the number of refugees trying to flee to the United States?
Why not let the cartels have a path to free citizenship. Then we can use no bail DAs to verbally scold them until they change their tune.
It would be hard for them to do that in the face of gunfire and bombs.
Given Fiona's record, I figured that would be her angle. While the U.S. military is destroying the interior of Mexico and any semblance of an economy we can welcome the millions of refugees that would be fleeing the destruction.
The Biden-Reagan drug prohibition laws of 1986 did that. Before 1909 plant leaves were legal all over South America and nobody wanted opiates. Only when Bryan and Tyrannosaurus Roosevelt enforced Sunday pub closings and baseball bans did banana republic caudillos start copying prohibition laws. San Francisco papers fanned anti-Asian hysteria in 1909 to boost those Hague prohibition conventions, just as the NYT fanned racial collectivism to help pass the Harrison Act.
It's china's responce to the opium wars
Never thought of that.
I respect that move.
China (the drug importers) didn't invade the west (the drug smugglers) though. They also got their Chinese asses handed to them. They had to pay reparations and legalize opium. It took them until late 2019 to get their revenge.
Are you suggesting that the crime lords would defeat the US armed forces?
No. I'm suggesting the situation is different.
Militarily? No. Practically? Yes. Much like the Taliban in the last years of our Afghan adventure, the cartels would effectively control any bit of territory that didn't actually have an American soldier or marine standing on it. Eliminating one cartel would just create openings for others. Just look at the history of the last few decades.
China used boycotts to pressure the US into pressuring The Hague to begin snowballing prohibitionism. The 1911 revolt replaced the entire Qing government and executed stevedores who unloaded contraband. The resulting glut brought war to the Balkans--all poppy farms from the Austrian border south to Greece--and that triggered WW1. Even the GOP version of the Protocols of the Elders of Jekyll Island admits a lone bushwhacker did not start that war.
The uniparty is composed of idiots.
They are going to mint a trillion dollar coin and invade Sinaloa. Unbelievable.
I knew GOPe'rs like Lindsey Graham were hot and horny for this, but even though it's a hot tweet and Fiona's misrepresenting it a little, I thought Crenshaw had more sense.
He needs an outlet for his estrogen surges. As Ricky Martin isn’t available for those sunset strolls long the beach that our Miss Lindsey craves.
What gaveyou that idea? The man is the second coming of John McCain.
Phrasing!
Adults in charge
January 1945 was when newspapers reported opium poppies being grown in Sinaloa. Most of this hysteria dates back to a rich kid overdosing. Prohibition followed and smuggled morphine contaminated a batch of flour imported into China. China boycotted that and other imports in 1905. Hence the prohibitionist Pure Food and Drug law that crashed the economy in 1907. Coercion does not have a good track record.
I have an idea....Let's build a wall! LOL.
If the cartels stay on their side of the border, fine. But don't be coming over here and setting up shop. That could be....fatal.
No-no-no-no-no, a wall is racist.
The only solution is either military intervention or open borders and defund the police.
Making drugs legal and home-grown in the U.S. would be fatal for their products and thus, for their violence.
If we can not keep fentanyl off the streets, how can we keep assault weapons off the streets?
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NASA : Failure is not an option.
DEA : Admitting failure is not an option.
Failure is never an option. It's an outcome.
in the short term.
And long term. If we went to war with Mexico, it would be a forever war with counter-attacks on civilians within our borders as far as the drug trap-line goes into our nation.
It is difficult to understand people who would go to war rather than taking a critical look at drug prohibition policies. Look at fentanyl a small drug that is more powerful than heroin. The manufacturer can keep make the drugs smaller, more powerful, easier to make, and easier to smuggle. You cannot stop the supply and so better to look at demand.
Agreed. Same for guns of course.
We don't have a prohibition on guns so what is your point?
Not yet...but they're working on it.
Illinois has entered the chat…
We’re way past drug legalization as a means to end the cartels. Try to keep up.
We've never tried non-alcoholic drug legalization in the U.S., so we can't be past it.
In October 1929 Lady Astor (a southern redneck married into European aristocracy) shrilly pointed out that the US had no law against smoking opium, whereas superstitious, impoverished slum-nations had many such laws. Europeans jerked their investments out of the USA, as in 1837, and soon we had Hoovervilles. Surprised?
Everclear used to be the prohibition version of ethanol. By cutting it with 50% water, you produce 100 proof neutral grain spirits perfect for flavoring into gin. Before alcohol prohibition only chemists handled reagent-grade ethanol or continuous stills, and very few people tried acetylated morphine. De minimis non curat lex makes for stable government.
China did that. After 25 million people were dead among pyramids of severed heads, folks still found a way to get hooked on opium partly out of spite. This is a version of the unequal yet apposite deadly reprisal force that promiscuous coercion engenders. European producers of chemical drugs dumped those products in African colonies after the 1911 Chinese Republicans blocked all imports by killing collaborating dock workers. You know what happened then, right?
We need to bring all the cartel members into the US as immigrants so they won't threaten the people of Mexico.
We need to legalize and deregulate all drugs and they will all immediately lose their power.
That's absurd.
Yeah, totaly absurd! It's the same reason why the Chicago Outfit and the Five Families still control the US alcohol trade even though Prohibition ended long ago.
'Immediately' might be a stretch, but when Prohibition ended, it definitely put a massive hurting on LCN finances.
This guy gets it!
🙂
blowing up FARC was a bad idea a little coke never hurt anyone.
It was FARC-ing war with a bunch of ice-hole bastages and som-ina-bitches!
🙂
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US as giant foreign exchange program kinda meets both sides of the immigration debate in the middle. Send Ukrainian refugees to Mexico, Venezuela, and Guatemala, send Mexican and S. American refugees to Ukraine. As long as you don’t go all “conservative” and develop a conscience about dropping people into meat grinders… Voila!
to say nothing of the violations of national sovereignty
Oh sure when you want to keep the cruise missiles out, borders suddenly matter. Who do you think you are? Vladimir Putin?
If we are going to destroy the trade relationship between the US and China, Mexico is one of the most logical places for all that offshore manufacturing that China does for us to go.
It also makes sense as a destination for medical tourism, and plain old tourism.
So, hey, maybe let’s not fuck up our relationship with Mexico.
C’mon Mike L, intentions matter. Senator Graham specifically said “…in order to destroy drug labs that are poisoning Americans—not to invade Mexico or shoot Mexican airplanes down”.
After all, we’re all friends here. Mexico obviously won’t get upset over a few cruise missiles. They probably will totally grateful for the favor. What could possibly go wrong?
Mike has been pretty racist in the past. He thinks all Mexicans are drug dealers. Just like the other day when he thought all gays (gop politician) were child twerking trannies.
No one is talking about invading Mexico, even the dumbass bumblefuck republican drug warriors do not mean such a thing. They are talking about a joint operation. It's a terrible idea but dont strawman the already idiotic proposal.
A limited "joint operation" would be a terrible idea. The only way to exterminate the cartels would be an invasion.
Even if we wiped out every cartel in Mexico, they'd just move shop like they did from Colombia. That's why they're concentrated in Mexico now. As long as there is demand, it doesn't matter where you squeeze the balloon, there will be supply. The best case scenario is a temporary price increase.
Drugs are only one reason the cartels are a threat. They can't "move shop" with most of the activities that threaten us, particularly human trafficking.
Human trafficking (I assume you mean illegal border crossing) is more local. You pretty much need a shared border. I'll give you that. I suppose as long as we maintain a militarized border, we could reduce human trafficking.
But even then, the drugs will continue unabated, being much easier to smuggle than people.
Great so let’s have narcotics reform AND slaughter the cartels.
With legal drug crops grown cheaply and safely in the U.S.A., 5he competition would put the Cartels out of business, without slaughter. No wasted U.S.A. blood and tax treasure required.
if we wiped out every cartel in Mexico, they’d just move shop
That will be difficult if they're dead.
Um... they invaded Panama and Colombia, and wrecked most of the economies of Latin America between 1987 and 1992--instant refugee swarms! Governments are manipulated into banning safe hippie drugs so that addiction cartels can dominate those once-safe markets with stuff that makes it impossible for hospital anesthetists to know how to prep people for surgery. This is mystical superstition replacing both science and law.
“What could possibly go wrong?”
I’m picturing the US commander going full-on Colonel Kurtz mode somewhere in the Mexican jungle.
You know that was fiction, right?
They should be grateful enough to give us half their oil.
Mexico needs to work on repairing their relationship with US. They’re a shitty neighbor, and have leeched off Americans for decades.
Mexico was a major trade partner of China, so much so that our coinage mills manufactured heavier silver coins to spend in China in competition with Mexico. China's fanatical prohibitionism and Britain's cynical poisoning collided in opium wars. So the US violated neutrality, then sweetly invaded then-weakened Mexico and absorbed Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, gold fields and all. Google news archives would have to be memory-holed to suppress this information.
End the War on Drugs instead. I know, crazy talk...
Full legalization of dangerous narcotics is a silly fantasy. There is no way that Fentanyl and Meth are going to be on the shelf at RiteAid next to the aspirin, no matter what the laws are. The criminal organizations would continue to be the manufacturers and distributors. We're not talking about weed here.
Is that how it was before 1914? Because you could buy herion in drug stores before then. Soon the criminal organizations would be selling booze and the murder rate would skyrocket though...hmmm
This isn't 1913.
Nope. What changed?
LOL
Yeah, I suppose we didn't use many acronyms in conversations then, but I meant more like what changed with human nature, i.e. addiction rates, drivers of addiction, black market economics, etc.
It's 2023...proving what, exactly?
The only silly fantasy is that Drug War 'victory' is somehow attainable...just *another* trillion dollars and *another* 50 years of the government ignoring its Constitutional limits and imprisoning and killing more of the 'right' people and invading the 'right' countries and attacking supply, then demand, then supply, then demand...
Drug Warriors have a well-known disdain for dealing in facts and truth, but the truth is that most drugs (periodically excepting alcohol) were legal for the vast majority of this country's existence. For all that time, there were no drug cartels!
Cartels didn't appear until Prohibition (La Cosa Nostra) and later, when 'freedom-loving Constitutionalist' Republican President Richard Nixon unilaterally and unconstitutionally declared War on (some) Drugs in the early 1970's.
Like the Iron Law of Prohibition, all the intractable Prohibitionist zeal and Neocon war boners in the world won't change the ugly facts. The more money the government burns and the more blood they spill, the worse things will get. We're not going to spend, shoot or imprison our way out of a medical and spiritual epidemic. The only way to win the Drug War is to stop fighting it!
It's funny when leftist faggots get all high and mighty about the drug war, when it was started by, and is an inevitable requirement of, progressivism.
Now go get another Pfizer jab and quiet down.
No surprise seeing a supporter of Putin's genocidal war with Ukraine also supporting a war on humans for modifying their consciousness.
Fuck Off, Dugin Hooligan Putineer!
True, and Google has millions of pages of old newspapers online in several languages. When no prohibition laws existed there were no drug cartels other than Britain's East India Company. Those worthies got Indian coolies addicted and exported it to China. When Chinese authorities objected to dope dumping, EIC countered that if it was so bad, locals should be prevented from growing it. By this trick China was placed at the mercy of opiates, the one natural drug that so atrophies the body as to cause addiction. It wrecked their economy.
iIf these drugs were legal, we would be free to apply Genetic Engineering to drug plants and Biochemistry to meth to make versions that kill pain without killing people and which enhance performance of peaceful deeds without making people violent.
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Since interfering in American elections is the ultimate crime, we have a good case for war with Mexico.
What?
You must not be keeping up with what the president of Mexico is saying. I’ll forgive you for that.
Mexico president stated he would spend millions to influence US elections.
Listening to anything the likes of Greene or Crenshaw have to say is the problem.
How about listening to what people are actually saying?
I mean, I get the reasons against it - but can't we do it just for fun?
"Criminalization has led to the proliferation of black market activity, a boom in many countries' prison populations, and increased corruption across Latin America."
And legalization won't stop that. You know what will stop it? Drone strikes. Lots and lots and lots of drone strikes. To the point that the rest of the world thinks that America will go bananas at the mere mention of the word "drugs" and loose a fleet of drones that will darken the sky right before they turn the land beneath it to ash.
I also think we need a wall across the southern border. Not a "wall" wall per se, but just a line of crucified drug lords and sicarios. We can call it a prospering vulture habitat.
Drone strikes won't do it. It would take boots on the ground. And yes, greatly increased border security.
Need to build the fucking wall.
The wall is useless. We've had that beaten over our heads repeatedly. It's time to build a better mousetrap.
No doubt in some areas better physical barriers would help. The border areas are diverse, including urban, rural, and wilderness areas, all with differing requirements for border security. We have experts in our military who could come up with a comprehensive plan for border security. We just need to get serious about it.
Heck, conquer Mexico for all I care. Guess what, we just solved the border problem too.
But ignoring or, worse, facilitating the drug cartels through legalization, isn't the answer. The cartels only know one language: violence. They're despots who hold on to territory by means of fear and intimidation and brutality. That's how they assert their control, that's how they fill their ranks, and that's how they establish a power base. We're not going to be signing treaties with Sinaloa anytime soon. We either legitimize them, or we kill them all.
Their violence is funded by their profits from illegal drugs. Take away the profit and violence screeches to a halt.
We can’t take away the profits. Legitimate drug manufacturers and retailers are not going to sell dangerous narcotics over the counter. Not gonna happen. Even if it could, the criminal and corrupting activities of the crime lords are diverse. They have other businesses. Their human trafficking is much more damaging than the drug trade.
Legitimate manufacturers would genetically and chemically engineer them to be safe.
Your fantasy is getting more complex.
It's pefect sense. Legal pharmaceutical firms don't want to intentionally deal in deadly products. If they can't make them safer, at very least, they list the side effects and precautions. But with Genetic Engineering and Nanotechnology, they can make products even safer and will do that with products that are now illegal once they are made legal.
Yeah, I'm a science fiction fan, too.
Prohibition is what facilitates cartels.
Agent Tricky here is an obvious product of Reagan-era brainwashing. Let the word go forth that production and trade are what faith-addled mystics regard as evil.
How altruistic! The main reason Christian Germany twice went to war, believe it or not, was because American prohibitionists urged banning Merck and other cartel members' most profitable exports. American companies also produced narcotics before and after WW1, so Europe's pharma giants saw this as unfair competition.
100,000 people died from fentanyl overdoses last year.
What's your alternative? You can't stop the demand. You can only stop supply. Legalize all other drugs. And exterminate the cartels.
I think this is a dumb ass idea. But I think there is argument to be made that it might be legal. Seems to me that the cartels offer an alternative government to the "legitimate" government recognized by all of the other "legitimate" governments out there. It also appears that a significant portion of the population prefers the alternative. I think it's also safe to assume that the two are at least informally integrated with members of both profiting by their cooperation. We've seen this play out many times throughout history notably with our own mafia. You can say what you want about protection rackets but the reality is a lot of small business owners were better off paying than relying on city government to protect them. Anyway I think the drug warriors can make the case that one of the governments in Mexico is causing harm to our citizenry and they are a fair target. The propaganda we are being fed about fentanyl rivals that of the Ukraine war. I'm going to need a lot of convincing that this is in any way justifiable. Besides. This is already old news. There's a brand new crises headed our way next week! I can feel it coming and I can't wait!
The target of a declaration of war need not be a government.
I find it humorous the ever-growing lefty mentality at Reason has to cherry-pick, pigeon-hole and dream up minuscule attacks on Republicans.
Pretty soon in an attempt to stopped the bored repeats you'll all just have a daily article that says, "Republicans bad...."
Geeeeezzzz... It's sad that Reason has lost all it's reasoning; thank goodness the comments still have some.
I tend to agree that Reason takes disingenuous shots at Republicans. This, however, is one of the times we're I think they're right on target.
I've seen Reason knock Ron DeSantis for becoming less hawkish. I've seen Reason get bent out of shape about Republicans banning the promotion of CRT and transgenderism in public schools (when the libertarian position should just be to oppose public schools in general). Those tend to be silly and even hypocritical critiques of Republicans.
This issue, however, is a fair point of critique. This idea of turning the war on drugs into a literal war is a bad idea. Sure, it would be the first time in decades that Republicans could logically argue that a war they are supporting would actually directly protect Americans. But a war with the cartels is not necessary.
Broad decriminalization efforts would undercut the monopoly that financially empowers the cartels. Building a wall would create a literal barrier to entry. Doing both would likely dramatically decrease the cartel's grip on the drug trade.
America has a drug problem and a border security problem. There are far simpler and more lasting ways to deal with those problems, but using our military to blow up cartel stuff is admittedly way cooler. It was even the plot of those Sicario movies.
It was only a single comment from one single person during the CPAC.. Let me know when it becomes a party platform initiative.
That's a fair point. I'm not saying war with the cartel has become an official part of the GOP platform, but the Reason article does list more than a single example of Republicans promoting the idea.
And like I said, Reason takes a lot of disingenuous shots. Like this one on DeSantis: https://reason.com/2023/03/07/ron-desantis-is-clumsily-backing-away-from-his-past-as-a-russia-hawk/
It was odd to see Reason ridiculing someone for the quality with which they backed away from previous hawkish views.
I'm a little more open to Reason sniping on people (even if unfairly) for promoting war than I am for them sniping on people opposing it. That's my bias in this thing.
Broad decriminalization efforts would undercut the monopoly that financially empowers the cartels.
People keep blithely saying that but can't or won't describe how it would happen. Legitimate companies in the US are not going to be taking over the dangerous narcotic business, no matter what the law says.
I want to make a quick distinction between decriminalization and legalization. One is the state butting out of an issue and the other is a state regulating the issue. I'm not arguing that large-scale legitimized business structures will necessarily have to take over to replace the cartels (although they did that with weed to a large extent).
"People keep blithely saying that but can’t or won’t describe how it would happen."
Here I'd tend to disagree. Marijuana legalization is already a pretty broad applicable model. Jurisdictions have started to follow that same model for psychedelic mushrooms. I will admit, weed and psychedelics are a different beast than opiates and powerful stimulants which are far more dangerous. I'm not operating under an illusion that people will or should be shooting up heroin the same way they're smoking joints in weed-legal states. I certainly don't want to see a world where people shoot up heroin on the side-walk, though that is already the norm in blue districts of America despite continued criminalization. I will argue that people are likely to be safer with their drugs if they're not afraid of spending decades in jail and doing dangerous stuff to avoid that outcome, like swallowing their entire stash when they get pulled over by cops (it's widely held that this was the true cause of George Floyd's death in 2020).
I do worry that broad decriminalization of hard drugs (meth/heroin) will lead to more junkies shooting up in the streets. But if we're talking about reducing the death toll from these drugs, decriminalization will do more than an air war against the cartels. As Thomas Sowell said, "There are no solutions, only trade-offs.”
"Legitimate companies in the US are not going to be taking over the dangerous narcotic business."
This part I also have to argue against. Pharma companies already create opiates domestically. They give a scaled-down version of meth to spazzy kids and call it Adderall. Addicts are often people who get hooked on the legal prescription stuff and then turn to the illegal street version when their prescription runs out. This illegal street portion of the drug trade is a captured market for the cartels because they're the ones willing to operate outside the confines of the law to meet the demand. Legitimate business organizations have an incentive to make safe products because their names are on said products. If a company's painkillers are diluted with a dangerous level of fillers like fentanyl, it's on them.
Cartels, by contrast, have less of an incentive because they are a couple layers removed from the responsibility of producing a safe product. Cartel products will pass through gangs, dealers, sub-distributors and peer-to-peer exchange and with each layer the blame for who compromised the safety of the product becomes less clear. Cartels get the money and don't have to worry about the damage they cause because they have a minimal degree of plausible deniability.
"That starts with bipartisan support for prohibition," writes Reason's Jacob Sullum, "which creates a black market where the quality and potency of drugs are highly variable and unpredictable."
What's wrong with Fentanyl?
Just build the wall already. We should invade Canada instead and liberate people of Canada from the mad tyrant Trudeau
Canadians could be our next refugee problem.
Joe Biden, the Proxy War President.
No one would be talking about a drug war if Joe Biden enforced the laws of the USA that he took an oath to uphold.
Bash the Republican article of the day. Reason never disappoints. Still nothing on the Biden crime families ill gotten gains though!
Unless you are willing to fight the same war inside your borders with twice the intensity that you propose outside your borders, you will always fail.
That's what Lord Palmerston told the Chinese. Decapitation, instead of letting people plant native poppies in the yard, was resorted to. Thanks to "money laundering" controls, silver tablets bled from China because anyone bringing them back was beheaded for dope pushing. The entire economy collapsed in opium wars and religious civil war killed about 25 million people by the time Lincoln was elected. Communism is what prohibitionism accomplished.
Fiona ought to know that coercive meddling in drug markets causes economic disruption affecting banks--impoverishing folks who neither drink nor use drugs. "Drugs and The Mind" came out at the same time as "Atlas Shrugged." There, a physician explains that most healthy people do not even like narcotics. Letting people have access to relatively harmless psychedelics dries up opiate markets. In fact, thorazine emptied out asylums and freed many Purple People of endangerment by opiates better than coercion ever did.
But what about the one-eyed, one-horned flying purple people eaters? Who will think of them?
2 massive problems with this comparison:
1. Mexico is a narco state.
2. Recreational drug users do not intentionally seek out fentanyl.
Legalizing fentanyl or the drugs its mixed with will not disincentivize fentanyl production. It's like thinking that legal cocaine will prevent crack use. Fentanyl is cheap. The people making and dealing it don't care that it kills their market. A legal heroin market will struggle to compete against fentanyl producers. Users and abusers will be faced with the same dilemma of "I need my fix" and cost. They will continue to choose fentanyl and continue to die.
There's only one answer to a narco state that won't seriously dismantle its drug cartels. Death is the only language they speak.
And the crime lords would not hesitate to suppress the competition by killing them.