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Government Spending

Joe Manchin Is Once Again Telling Republicans and Democrats What They Don't Want To Hear

But it's exactly what they need to start talking about.

Eric Boehm | 3.3.2023 1:15 PM

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Sen. Joe Manchin is telling the truth about Social Security. "If we do nothing and just sit back with our hands in our pockets...they're going to have automatic cuts." | Graeme Sloan/Sipa USA/Newscom
(Graeme Sloan/Sipa USA/Newscom)

During the first two years of the Biden administration, Sen. Joe Manchin (D–W.Va.) often ended up having to be the responsible adult in the room.

Democrats had full control of Congress for the first time in over a decade, and many of them intended to behave like children left alone in a candy store—each pile of sugary goodness providing the energy to eat another, and another, consequences be damned. Manchin was the parental buzzkill, popping up every few months to remind his fellow Democrats that more federal spending won't fix runaway inflation, that budget deficits still matter, and that you can't tax money that doesn't exist.

Now, control of Congress is divided between the two major parties—but Manchin seems determined to keep delivering reminders to eat some vegetables.

In an interview with Fox Business host Neil Cavuto on Thursday, Manchin stressed the need to put Social Security and other federal entitlement programs on a more stable footing—in light of the fact that Social Security benefits will be automatically cut when the program's trust fund hits insolvency in or around 2034.

"If we do nothing and just sit back with our hands in our pockets and say, 'Oh, we can't get involved,' they're going to have automatic cuts. We can't let that happen," Manchin said.

That's a reality that many top Democrats and Republicans refuse to acknowledge—both Biden and former President Donald Trump have pledged not to touch Social Security. But Manchin is absolutely right: Anyone who argues for leaving the entitlement programs untouched today is actually advocating for automatic, unavoidable benefit cuts in a decade.

That's a situation that should be spurring a conversation in Washington about what the future of Social Security should look like, but Manchin is one of the few lawmakers willing to even raise the question. And the unwillingness to talk about the problem is a major impediment to finding solutions, he said Thursday.

"Is there a better program, is there a better way younger people can invest and have something for retirement? I don't know, but if you can't even sit down and talk with experts and talk with people…to say you're not even going to discuss anything?" Manchin said, adding that the only thing he'd take off the table is benefit cuts for people who are currently receiving them.

In fact, yes, there are better options for young people. Abolishing Social Security would mean younger workers wouldn't have their paychecks taxed to pay for benefits that flow to older and generally wealthier Americans.

With that extra money, young workers would have more flexibility to invest as they see fit—and most private retirement accounts are more lucrative (and, importantly, more sustainable) than Social Security. According to a 2016 Tax Foundation study, a worker retiring after making average wages could expect an annual payout of about $20,000 from Social Security. If that same worker had invested just 10 percent of their annual earnings into a typical retirement account, they'd enjoy an annual retirement income almost three times greater.

Any major change in entitlement policy is going to have tradeoffs, and there will, of course, have to be a period of time for winding down Social Security to ensure that older workers don't have their retirement plans suddenly blown up and that truly needy retirees are protected. But that process should start now—indeed, it should have started years ago.

Manchin also took to the Senate floor on Thursday to excoriate both parties for diving up the national debt to unsustainable levels—a separate but related problem since the growing costs of entitlements are one of the primary drivers of the $31 trillion national debt.

"We've been spending more than we bring in every year for the past 21 years, and the debt that has resulted from that is absolutely crippling," he said, pointing out that presidents and congressional leaders from both parties are responsible for that long track record of busted budgets. "My Democratic friends don't want to say a word about our out-of-control spending and are outright refusing to even talk to Republicans about reasonable and responsible reforms."

"Our problem really isn't a Republican problem or a Democratic problem, it's an American problem," he added. "We have a problem, and only if we start putting our country first and acting as Americans can we fix it."

Again, he's absolutely right. When Social Security goes insolvent, the benefit cuts won't fall only on Republican voters or Democratic ones. The diminished standard of living that comes as a natural consequence of having too much debt will affect all Americans—and is particularly painful for those already living with less, regardless of whether they are living in a poor urban area or in eastern Kentucky. There's no way to solve the debt and entitlement crises with zero-sum politics that filter everything through a stupid binary of Red vs. Blue, so most politicians simply choose to avoid the topic altogether.

And when you were hoping for another all-night buffet at the candy store, no child or politician wants to be told that the real choice is between boiled broccoli and steamed spinach. But there are tough questions that Congress needs to start asking, both internally and in conversation with Americans. What's the purpose of Social Security? Do wealthy retirees really need federal handouts? If taxes must be raised to keep entitlements running, what will the economic consequences be? And, as Manchin said Thursday, are the better alternatives out there?

Don't trust Manchin to get all the answers right. After all, he did support the Inflation Reduction Act, which claimed to reduce future budget deficits but ultimately only offset a small amount of the new spending approved since Biden took office.

Still, it's good that at least someone is asking these questions. Manchin should keep it up.

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Eric Boehm is a reporter at Reason.

Government SpendingNational DebtDebtDeficitsBudget DeficitJoe ManchinSenateSocial SecurityEntitlementsJoe BidenDonald TrumpBiden AdministrationCongressPolitics
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  1. SRG   3 years ago

    One seldom-mentioned advantage of private or hypothecated accounts is that it allows for intergenerational wealth transfer.

    One issue, of course, is how to protect individuals from fraud. The average person is ill-equipped to spot financial scams and fraud, and the capacity of asset managers to engage in questionable activities is fairly broad. I note the substantial resistance to the fiduciary requirement as evidence of how sceptical we should be about the industry (which I have been a part of, on occasion...)

    1. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   3 years ago

      Invest in a mutual fund tracking the Dow Jones or S&P 500 indices. Fraud only applies to those trying to manage the investments piecemeal.

      I knew someone who inherited a million dollars, and her investment scheme was whack. She'd study *something* every morning and call her broker for daily trades. I tried saying the commissions would eat up her million dollars, that she should either spend all day micro-managing her stocks, or buy long term and do research once a week or month, or dump her money in a mutual fund and leave it alone, but she knew better, she was the one with a million dollars, not me.

      A year later she was done to $300,000 and blaming it on bad markets.

      If people handled their own investments, stories like this would educate the other 99% of workers. The 1% who lost everything, well, there's always charity and welfare, but the media would be full of heart-tugging stories about widows being evicted because their husbands had not invested properly.

      And there are people who would never invest anything for retirement, or postpone it until way too late so they could buy a boat or RV.

      Collectivists will never let those poor fools go to waste, and we will never be able to get rid of SSA.

      1. rbike   3 years ago

        I, as a somewhat libertarian sort of guy, am fine with my neighbor buying that boat and Harley, etc.. as long as I don't have to pay for his lack of retirement. He chose. Logically, if he dies early, he still succeeds. He only loses if he lives a long and poverty stricken life.

        1. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   3 years ago

          Exactly. But the proggies will see the opportunity to carp about heartless capitalists.

          1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   3 years ago

            Have I mentioned my plan to pay for charitable retirement aid by selling the organs of democrats?

            1. angelinajolie   3 years ago (edited)

              Great article, Mike. I appreciate your work, I’m now creating over $35,700 dollars each month simply by doing a simple job online! I do know You currently making a lot of greenbacks online from $28,700 dollars, its simple online operating jobs.
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      2. SRG   3 years ago

        I tried saying the commissions would eat up her million dollars

        The story goes that some acquaintance of Soros told him that he'd lost a bundle in some commodity market. Soros asked him for his trade data and got one of his analysts to run the numbers. The acquaintance was told that if he'd done the exactly opposite trades, he'd still have lost a bundle - because of commissions. Commissions seem low - indeed, are low - but if you're an individual HFT. they build up rapidly.

    2. Muzzled Woodchipper   3 years ago

      Inter generational wealth transfer is bad. Haven’t you heard?

      1. Unicorn Abattoir   3 years ago

        Yes, I hear that a lot from politicians that grew rich by intergenerational wealth transfer.

        1. Its_Not_Inevitable   3 years ago

          They should know!

    3. Rossami   3 years ago

      re: "The average person is ill-equipped to spot financial scams and fraud"

      On the contrary, the average person is quite capable of identifying and avoiding fraud. It's only a relatively small minority that get sucked in and defrauded. I will concede that it's tragic when those vulnerable few fall for the scam but we should not base policy decisions on paternalistic biases. Let people adult (and prosecute the actual scammers to the fullest extent of the law).

      1. Moderation4ever   3 years ago

        I suspect that if more people had to invest themselves fraud would rise and less educated investors would targets to scam. There would need to be some sort of certification, that would ensure investment firms are honest.

        1. Agammamon   3 years ago

          Or - people would learn and the scams would decrease.

        2. You're Kidding   3 years ago

          Yes. Because government oversight = perfection.

          God forbid we let people make their own choices. Stupid or otherwise.

          Like lambs to slaughter.

      2. GroundTruth   3 years ago

        So cut SS back to a minimal program to keep grandma or your neighbor's Down Syndrome kid from starving. But beyond 2000 calories per day and a room with a cot and a shared bathroom down the hall, more than that is just encouraging bad planning.

        But get government out of financial planning altogether. If you're stupid enough to fall for a get-rich quick scheme, that's your problem, not the taxpayer's.

    4. Agammamon   3 years ago

      Financial fraud - like social security?

  2. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Lol. A Manchin is dreamy article. The guy who helped pass the "Inflatioj Reduction Act."

    1. damikesc   3 years ago

      I was about to ask about that. Didn't he vote for that costly monstrosity?

      1. BrianL.   3 years ago

        From the article:

        "Don't trust Manchin to get all the answers right. After all, he did support the Inflation Reduction Act, which claimed to reduce future budget deficits but ultimately only offset a small amount of the new spending approved since Biden took office."

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          His actions speak far louder than his words.

          In the run up to that bill he said many of the right things. Then voted for the spending. He has done this numerous times. So words regarding SS are meaningless until the bill he votes Yes on, and he will, is published.

          1. Social Justice is neither   3 years ago

            I'll cut him enough slack that he just needs to propose a bill that would make SS stable but he'll never do that.

            1. JesseAz   3 years ago

              Meanwhile the GOP has been crucified for calling for reform for decades and have introduced legislation. Even this year Biden is leaning heavily on attacking the GOP over reform.

              An example of those calls.

              https://www.wtwco.com/en-US/Insights/2020/01/Social-Security-reform-A-call-for-facts-transparency-and-fairness

              So the thesis the GOP needs to listen to Manchin is pretty hilarious.

            2. You're Kidding   3 years ago

              Ponzi schemes are never stable.

        2. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   3 years ago

          I’m sure Manchin makes Boehm wet to the knees.

      2. Presskh   3 years ago (edited)

        Manchin held out and voted for the “Inflation Reduction” Act only when he got the goodies he wanted for WV. He does talk a good game but, just like Republicans, he keeps getting re-elected because he brings home the bacon.

    2. JoeJoetheIdiotCircusBoy   3 years ago (edited)

      Yeh. Manchin usually says things that portray intelligence with respect to fiscal sanity…and then every time….every fucking time he caves and goes along with it. Is it good he is saying things like this? Yes. Does it mean anything? No. Everyone knows he is a wet noodle on all this anyway.

      1. Zeb   3 years ago

        So he's a politician, then.

      2. Liberty_Belle   3 years ago

        Floppy noodles with good talking points get reelected to fat paychecks of minimal effort.

        1. You're Kidding   3 years ago

          Yes but, they can't cut the mustard. Not with that floppy noodle. Ask any self respecting female.

      3. Anastasia Beaverhausen   3 years ago

        He's firm and dry compared to Susan Collins.

    3. Zeb   3 years ago

      Well, being the least fiscally irresponsible Democrat isn't a high bar to clear.

  3. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   3 years ago

    According to a 2016 Tax Foundation study, a worker retiring after making average wages could expect an annual payout of about $20,000 from Social Security. If that same worker had invested just 10 percent of their annual earnings into a typical retirement account, they'd enjoy an annual retirement income almost three times greater.

    I downloaded Dow Jones and S&P 500 annual gains and losses from slickcharts dot com and ran my annual SSA deductions through a calculator. If I had invested the 12.4% (or whatever it is) in mutual funds which tracked the DJ and S&P stocks, a 5% annual payout would have been 2.15 and 4.37 times the predicted SSA payout. In most years, that 5% withdrawal would have been way below the annual gain, so that's a very conservative retirement fund.

    The only problem with just cancelling SSA is all the people who have already had years and decades of deductions, and worse, all the people still getting payouts. I doubt there's enough balance in the trust fund to provide a proper opt-out lump sum. But then again, I've never seen any analysis of that, so maybe it would be enough.

    1. RosariaJahnke   3 years ago (edited)

      I’m making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life.

      This is where i started………….>>> http://www.jobsrevenue.com

    2. CE   3 years ago

      There is no trust fund, just more debt. The taxpayers will it off either way.

      1. GroundTruth   3 years ago

        There is no "trust fund" or "lock box" and never will be. SS has always been a Ponzi scheme. Madoff got locked up for it, and FDR and his supporting criminals should be dug up and thrown in jail. (Oh yeah, and can we please get FDR's pic off of the dime?)

    3. Agammamon   3 years ago

      There is no trust fund. Never had been.

      Current payments are made from current tax receipts.

  4. MWAocdoc   3 years ago

    Manchin may be the only adult in the room, but he's also wrong. Yes, they CAN "let that happen" and they probably WILL let automatic cuts take place in 2034. There is absolutely no downside for current officials to kick the can down the road on Social Security, only benefits. After all, almost NONE of them will still be in office in 2034 and maybe a miracle will happen before then anyway! My personal opinion is that only cold turkey, as painful as that will be for younger generations, can be effective for Americans addicted to welfare.

    1. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

      Yes, that is exactly the problem. There is a lot of immediate downside now, little upside, and if they are still around in ten years they might avoid blame for the automatic cuts.

    2. Presskh   3 years ago

      I’m for automatic cuts, as well. What better way to wean the country off of this semi-welfare system and make everyone responsible for their own retirement planning?

      1. Mike Hansberry   3 years ago

        Yes, letting the automatic cuts happen is the best course of action. The real question is this: why does a supposedly libertarian magazine keep pushing for higher taxes?

    3. CE   3 years ago

      My guess is they will just borrow more for future taxpayers to pay back, and keep increasing the benefits.

      1. EISTAU Gree-Vance   3 years ago

        My guess is that the great reset will have little concern for such former luxuries as SS, travel and meat.

    4. You're Kidding   3 years ago

      What, you want to go back to the bread lines of the Great Depression?......says every liberal in America.

  5. Dillinger   3 years ago

    >>often ended up having to be the responsible adult in the room

    lol Manchin folds like a cheap suit every time ... lotta talk and a badge

    1. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   3 years ago

      Yeah, his complaining after passage that Biden had not kept his promises was heart breaking. O poor baby, did the mean politician lie to you?!?

      1. Dillinger   3 years ago

        embarrassed for the half-second I believed he might stand tall.

      2. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

        Who knew Joe Biden was a dishonest man?

        Besides everyone not living under a rock for the past 50 some years.

        1. You're Kidding   3 years ago

          Yeah. Those hair plugs should have been the dead giveaway a long, long time ago.

    2. Quo Usque Tandem   3 years ago

      Government as it is, is completely hopeless to solve anything [but very good at creating new problems and making existing ones much much worse]; it's all about remaining in their chosen life profession for as long as possible, by telling at least 50.1% of their constituents whatever they want to hear.

      1. Dillinger   3 years ago

        I learned a completely different overview of our federal government in my many schools.

  6. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    Fuck this guy. He's a Democrat. Now if a Republican did what he's doing they'd be worthy of praise. But not this guy. He's the enemy. Principals, not principles.

    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

      Cite?

    2. damikesc   3 years ago

      If he was a Republican, the Inflation Reduction Act would be the first sentence. Every single time.

    3. Unicorn Abattoir   3 years ago

      If he was a Republican, he'd be to the right of many other Republicans.

      1. Anastasia Beaverhausen   3 years ago

        Maybe thirty years ago, but no longer.

    4. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   3 years ago

      You’re so bad at this.

  7. rbike   3 years ago

    2034. That was when I had planned on retiring.

    1. You're Kidding   3 years ago

      So, max out your retirement contributions from now until then.

      Speaking from experience.

  8. Nardz   3 years ago

    https://twitter.com/lonestarherd/status/1631661293651345410?t=aeeyx9-zpW1KqOepr5VE5w&s=19

    Biden Nominee for FAA Chief Goes 0-for-7 on Aviation Policy Quiz by Sen. Ted Budd

    [Video]

    1. Unicorn Abattoir   3 years ago

      Knowledge Schmowledge. What does he identify as?

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        A car driver apparently.

    2. CE   3 years ago

      He can't appoint someone competent to his administration. They would make all his other hires look bad.

    3. You're Kidding   3 years ago

      Nothing new here. It's called political patronage for a reason.

      Hey, what's Fauci charging for a speaking engagement these days?

      It's our own fault for not instigating the revolution that is necessary to reset this mess we've become.

  9. Naime Bond   3 years ago

    Manchin is a hero when it comes to nickel and dimes that change nothing; but on the big stuff (billions and trillions) '....not only would he sell his Mother's eyes for a nickel, he'd send them COD....'

  10. Brandybuck   3 years ago

    What I've said before, we can start by removing caps on contributions and then means testing the payouts. In short, the rich still gotta pay the tax and but they don't get the entitlement if they don't need it.

    This is not a solution, this is just a stopgap measure. A start. But it will allow us to transition out of the broken system.

    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

      Shocking brandy is pro monetary transfer.

    2. Presskh   3 years ago

      So, let me get this straight - you want to make the country’s most responsible and productive people, who already pay proportionally much more into SS, pay a new gargantuan tax on their income to fund the retirement of those who have been irresponsible in planning for their own retirement and, adding icing to the cake, screw them out of any of their own earned benefits? All you will really succeed in doing is enriching accountants and tax lawyers, as high-income individuals will negotiate to receive more of their income in stock options and fringe benefits, rather that earned income.

      1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

        When someone is suggesting a possible way out of a mess they didn’t create, it’s a little bit of an overstatement to say they “want” to do this or that.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago (edited)

          It actually isn’t as that is exactly what brandy said.

      2. Tony   3 years ago

        Citation needed that wealth is correlated to responsibility and productivity.

        Most rich people I know are largely parasites.

        1. CE   3 years ago

          Only if they work in government, or get a lot of government contracts. People become wealthy by creating things that other people are willing to pay for -- sort of the opposite of being a parasite, it's by being highly productive and enterprising that people become wealthy. It's the people who want to take other peoples' money against their will who are the truly greedy ones.

          1. Tony   3 years ago

            Or people become rich by inheriting Daddy's money. Or by large-scale corruption. Always by availing themselves of the civilization that makes wealth possible.

            There are lots of ways to become rich. That you can only think of one is your problem to deal with. Try books.

            1. GroundTruth   3 years ago

              Daddy's money is none of your concern. How someone spends (or distributes) what that have is their own business.

              Regarding corruption, it's a crime, so prosecute and punish it.

              One way to become rich is to save and invest wisely. You may not get crazy rich, but simple long term savings will do wonders. Yes, you may not be able to afford the newest i-phone every year, or steak every week, but only the government can spend the same dollar twice.

              1. Tony   3 years ago

                You can either sell your policies on the moral premise that wealth is the product of hard work, or you get to defend the moral premise of "finder's keepers."

                The current distribution of wealth was not the product of a 100% just system, as I'm sure you'll agree. So how do you correct for that? Are we ever allowed to redistribute resources according to justice and human well-being, or is the only permissible moral-political system one in which the most successful thief gets away with it?

                The beauty of moral philosophies is that you can discard them when they aren't useful.

        2. Diarrheality   3 years ago

          You don't know any rich people.

          1. Tony   3 years ago

            If any of you knew some actually rich people you'd never say they did it all by the sweat of their brow. A billion dollars is so much more than a million, such that no human could possibly work that much extra hard in a thousand lifetimes.

            1. Presskh   3 years ago (edited)

              You are correct in a sense – a $billion could never be earned in 1000 lifetimes by people who work solely by the sweat of their brow. Billionaires, however, work with their brain instead of the sweat of their brow. They have a big-scale vision, are hard-driving and goal-oriented, and are generally high-risk takers when it comes to making that vision come true. That’s why for every billionaire who succeeded, there are literally thousands who went bust. I personally make a pretty good living in my field but just don’t have enough of the above attributes or, quite frankly, the desire to do what it takes to become a billionaire. But I don’t sit around and begrudge the success of those who do.

              1. Tony   3 years ago

                I'm not begrudging anyone. Emotions need play no role in any of this. I fully exploit every avenue available to me under the law to maximize my wealth, and I don't expect anyone else to do differently.

                One of the primary jobs of a government is to look after the people who aren't merely lucky or the best at exploiting the rules as they are. It's easy enough to start with the premise that any individual worth a billion dollars or more is walking evidence of something haywire in the system, which a free people are perfectly free to correct.

        3. Presskh   3 years ago

          While there are indeed financial “parasites” who enrich themselves while wreaking havoc on everyone else (Soros comes to mind), most extremely wealthy people became that way by either having a good idea for a new product or service or bringing existing products or services to the marketplace more efficiently. Your brain has been fried by the constant barrage of leftist propaganda that portrays the wealthy as the root cause of our country’s problems. You might try taking a closer look at those on the left who point fingers at the wealthy - they are generally people who have enriched themselves through mostly nefarious means.

          1. Tony   3 years ago

            But I don't give a single crap about whether a person acquired their wealth by morally laudable means. Morals are just stories we tell ourselves, and mostly they are rationalizations for the behavior we want to do anyway.

            A tax system treats the guy who acquired wealth by honorable means and the guy who acquired it by dishonorable, if legal, means the same.

            If you want to talk about "deserving," your formula is woefully incomplete. You say, with a straight face, that a guy with $10 billion in his control deserves every cent of it, but a starving child deserves no food if its mother can't afford it?

            Again, moral systems are stories we tell ourselves. So are you under no obligation to adopt the most psychopathic ones.

    3. CE   3 years ago (edited)

      Usually when you uncover a Ponzi scheme, you don’t try to make the wealthier victims make the less well-off victims whole. Usually you imprison the people running the scam, and divide up whatever assets actually remain, giving a pro-rated share to each victim based on how much they were bilked out of.

      So lay off everyone in the SS administration, and auction off all the land, buildings, and office equipment, and cut everyone a small check. Then repeal the FICA tax for good.

      1. GroundTruth   3 years ago

        Love the plan!

        After that, can we do the TSA?

        (I'm serious!)

    4. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   3 years ago

      So your solution is more socialism.

    5. You're Kidding   3 years ago

      And, who defines "the rich".

      The last time I looked, rich meant owning assets. High income is not rich.

  11. PeteRR   3 years ago

    First, benefits will not be cut. Old people vote. Young people don't. So the non-voters get the shaft in any sort of "reform."

    Secondly, the time to fix SS was 30 years ago when the baby boomers were working and paying in. Now? the system is fucked.

    All I know is I've advocated for real reforms for decades. Now I'm old and need the money. So fuck you, pay me.

    1. Presskh   3 years ago

      My feeling, as well. I’ve been paying FICA taxes for almost 50 years, 40 of those years at a very high level, and am nearing retirement. I will certainly be writing my congressman if they threaten to cut benefits for those who actually paid in to the system for a substantial number of years. I’m not a big government person by any stretch but if you force me to pay into something all of my working career, under threat of jail, then I will also be there to demand what was promised.

  12. RosariaJahnke   3 years ago (edited)

    I’m making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life.

    This is where i started………….>>> http://www.jobsrevenue.com

    1. You're Kidding   3 years ago

      But, are you paying your fair share of taxes on that measly $84 grand you're making?

  13. TJJ2000   3 years ago

    FDR and his UN-Constitutional 'Social'ist Security sales pitch "New Deal" America..

    SOCIALISM DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    How many times does that lesson need to repeat itself?
    It has bankrupted this nation; shredded so many freedoms....
    The $ part of it is just a sliver of it's true cost over the last 100-years.

    Get the Treasonous [Na]tional So[zi]alists OUT OF OFFICE!!! Else prepare for the Venezuelan sacrifice.

  14. Minadin   3 years ago

    Here's my idea for stabilizing Social Security: Pass a bill or amendment making it a federal felony equivalent to treason for a member of congress, their immediate family, or associates to profit from trading in industries they regulate. Then, warm up Old Sparky.

    Yeah, I know it won't have any immediate impact on the solvency of Social Security, any more than these other proposals, but at least it has collateral benefits.

  15. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

    If you want to short my SS cash benefits, I will take the difference in federal real estate.

  16. Tony   3 years ago

    Eliminating the social security tax cap would make the program solvent through 2046.

    I understand that we live in a country that will tolerate the ritual slaughter of schoolchildren before it will even begin to fathom the concept that the rich can be taxed a little more.

    1. TJJ2000   3 years ago

      Just a little more "armed-theft"...... /s

      1. Tony   3 years ago

        Do you never get the feeling that you might be out of your depth, even here?

        1. TJJ2000   3 years ago

          Ever notice the one's who talk about depth and complexity tend to be the biggest idiots? Something about compensating for something?

    2. Diarrheality   3 years ago

      You can't reasonably expect government to solve the problem when government is the problem.

      I understand that we live in a country that will tolerate the ritual slaughter of schoolchildren...

      I generally counter the emotional blackmail of neurotic hoplophobes by expanding my impressive collection of scary firearms with more scary firearms. Cheap rhetoric doesn't deter bullies; the threat of getting punched in the mouth does.

      1. Tony   3 years ago

        The problem with modern conservatives is that they are so fucking stupid and unsocialized that they think Hollywood movies are actually real life. Each obese specimen thinks he's a Rambo in the making.

        This when every special forces soldier will tell you, when gunfire starts near you, what you do is hide. Even the bravest. Because that's the smart thing to do.

        Think how many corpses of children have been buried beneath the alter of your ridiculous, unevidenced, fictional narratives.

        1. TJJ2000   3 years ago

          Says the guy who references -- The day after tomorrow; as his Climate facts. lmao... UR too much Tony.

        2. damikesc   3 years ago

          "The problem with modern conservatives is that they are so fucking stupid and unsocialized that they think Hollywood movies are actually real life. Each obese specimen thinks he’s a Rambo in the making.

          This when every special forces soldier will tell you, when gunfire starts near you, what you do is hide. Even the bravest. Because that’s the smart thing to do."

          Weird how it seems pretty much all of these mass shootings occur in locales run by Democrats, ain't it?

          1. Tony   3 years ago (edited)

            You mean where the masses are?

            Also, nearly 100% of the mass killings in the US in 2022 were committed by right-wing extremists.

            Guns don’t kill people, and people don’t kill people, Democratic mayors kill people?

            1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   3 years ago

              Democrats kill people. From inside the womb all the way through to nursing homes in democrat states. Democrats are the killers.

              1. Tony   3 years ago

                That's rich coming from someone who spends much of his time calling for the genocide of his political opponents.

                Remind me of your pandemic politics again? Wasn't it "maximize infection deliberately"?

            2. damikesc   3 years ago

              Oh wow, ADL. Rock solid sourcing there.

              Do not blame conservatives that Chicago has a lot of killings with no Republican mayors since, what, 1928?

    3. EISTAU Gree-Vance   3 years ago

      Pass the hat o’ guilt around, tony.

      So dignified.

      1. Tony   3 years ago

        You should feel guilty if you have been agitating on behalf of the arms industry and its unchecked business within the border of the US even in the face of the regular mass slaughter of children. You should feel very guilty for parading around nonsensical Hollywood horseshit to rationalize your mindless cultlike free marketing work for the arms industry, yes.

        1. damikesc   3 years ago

          "arms industry and its unchecked business"

          Unchecked?

          Feel free to go out and buy a gun and describe what steps you went thru to get it.

          1. Tony   3 years ago

            Not enough.

            How many tens of thousands of senseless deaths per year are enough for you to consider the possibility that it's too easy to put holes in people in this country?

            1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   3 years ago

              Better get rid of democrat policies and democrat governance. People are using those guns to murder because of policies forced on Americans by you and your fellow travelers.

              Guns aren’t the problem Tony, democrats are.

              1. Tony   3 years ago

                Republicans get a ludicrously unbalanced advantage in the American electoral system. Stop complaining. Sometimes you don't get your way when most people around you disagree with you.

                Shall I spend the rest of my life teaching you people how to be grownups, or can you just get on with it?

            2. damikesc   3 years ago

              "Not enough."

              You have no clue what you're talking about...but we need MORE.

              "How many tens of thousands of senseless deaths per year are enough for you to consider the possibility that it’s too easy to put holes in people in this country?"

              Alcohol kills dramatically more than guns. Just sayin'.

    4. damikesc   3 years ago

      "I understand that we live in a country that will tolerate the ritual slaughter of schoolchildren"

      You're pro-life now?

      1. Tony   3 years ago

        Even I'm not for starting public education that early.

    5. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   3 years ago

      You democrats should stop murdering children. If you can’t stop, then take your own lives.

      It’s not like anyone will miss you anyway.

    6. You're Kidding   3 years ago

      You're lucky we tolerate you.

      Thanks for the cannon fodder you provide.

  17. CE   3 years ago

    How about stressing the need to cut government spending back to pre-pandemic, pre-crisis levels? Like 2018, for instance, when spending was "only" 4 trillion dollars, or like 50% lower than it is in 2023. Tax revenues are right around 4 trillion per year now, so the budget could be balanced right away, with no need to increase the debt ceiling yet again.

    1. MasterThief   3 years ago

      It's so simple that even an idiot can figure it out. Why is it that our government can't do it and so much of the population isn't willing to stop wasting so much for no good reason

      1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   3 years ago

        If only Americans would recognize the left as an existential enemy and act accordingly. So much could then be repaired so easily. Then real progress could be made in fixing the long term problems.

  18. Poorgrandchildren   3 years ago

    Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme. The only question is who will get hurt when it implodes.

  19. Jeff Mason   3 years ago

    Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and needs to be phased out as soon a possible. We need to transition to personalized retirement accounts with forced contributions from employees and employers. It would have to be phased in over two or three decades but it must be done. One thing that needs to be done in the interim is a crackdown on fraud, especially given the millions of generally healthy people collecting disability payments for things like gambling addiction and anxiety. Bounce those people immediately.

    1. Tony   3 years ago

      Explain the math to me.

      Assuming we don't want to make retirees any poorer, how will adding a brokerage fee to a safety net policy cost less money?

      And why is it a better safety net to leave their wealth in retirement to the whims of the damn stock market? Is our policy to be that we punish those who retire in recessions for... reasons? Don't we want people to retire in recessions?

      Also, it's not a Ponzi scheme. Ponzi schemes don't go on for 100 years with the full faith and credit of the US government. Minor difference.

      1. Richard Bees   3 years ago

        A Ponzi scheme financed by the federal government is still a Ponzi scheme. Longevity is not a disqualifying feature, it's a function of government stupidity and spending money they don't have. In the private world, you run out of money, with the Feds, you just whip up the presses until they catch fire. Minor difference.

        1. Tony   3 years ago

          But that's the crucial difference. Ponzi schemers can't print their own money. If they could, they wouldn't bother with the scheme.

          You need to stop trying to understand economic theory and get back to basics. Think about resources, not money. Do we want to spend the resources necessary to prevent old-age poverty in this country?

          If you're claiming that we simply don't have the resources anymore, okay, then we'll have to reduce the benefit, but not until after we've taxed every excessively wealthy person in the country until they actually feel the pain.

          You're the one setting priorities here, are you not? Old people being poor is a burden not just on themselves but on generations of their families. A safety net makes everyone freer.

          A zillionaire not being taxed and extra 10% is so much not a problem, it's not even a problem for the zillionaire, not by any measurable degree of human well-being.

          1. damikesc   3 years ago

            "If you’re claiming that we simply don’t have the resources anymore, okay, then we’ll have to reduce the benefit, but not until after we’ve taxed every excessively wealthy person in the country until they actually feel the pain."

            Biden hired 87,000 or so IRS agents to get money out of the ric....wait, they're targeting waitstaff. And Uber drivers. You know...those vicious titans of commerce.

            Tell me more.

            1. Tony   3 years ago

              Why do you want people to be able to cheat on their taxes?

      2. TJJ2000   3 years ago (edited)

        Let’s not “Assuming we” Sell your Individual Souls to the [WE] foundation; because You don’t own You, [WE] own you!!! /s

        Democrats LOVE to use [WE] to cover-up their Gov-Gun theft. “[We]’re not robbing the bank…”, “[We] are just getting [Our] money and YOU don't exist."

      3. You're Kidding   3 years ago

        Well Tony, as your favorite R once said, "There you go again".

        There is NO mandate that retirement funds be invested in the stock market.

        In the meantime, the U.S. stock market has beat the U.S. government 100% of the time.

        It is a government run Ponzi scheme. Such much for your full faith and credit.

  20. Moderation4ever   3 years ago

    As a centrist, Manchin tell the story as it really is and not what the far left or right want to hear. The government can not tackle debt, SS or Medicare without centrist that will honestly assess the problem and find workable compromise solutions.

    1. Elmer Fudd the CHUD   3 years ago

      Your idiotic ramblings are a good substitute for ipecac. I’ll have to keep a collection of your greatest hits handy if I ever accidentally ingest poison.

  21. Richard Bees   3 years ago

    We had a chance to privatize in the '80s, but Al Gore said that was "a risky scheme", so here we are. The government needs to back out the COVID increases in the baseline, it needs to privatize ASAP and there's no way I'm giving Biden another couple billion to tackle pandemic unemployment fraud. The feds are the reason we all got fleeced in the first place. No more money for the feds. None.

    If they want to fix things, start cutting - everywhere. And don't stop until we're back to 2018 levels. I'm sick of the giveaways. This is reality, not Willy Wonka's factory. Start living in the real world, grandpa.

  22. Panhandle   3 years ago

    If Joe's rhetoric were supported by his actions, I would be happy to support him in this endeavor but once he signed off on the Inflation non-Reduction Act in exchange for executive and legislative action that has yet to be seen, I lost all respect for him. He knows this is his last term as WV senator unless he does something to change opinion of him and here we are with the latest stab at it.

  23. Twiz123   3 years ago

    Its just a giant ponzi scheme. Ask the SEC to investigate the Social Security Admionistration. Oh I forgot...only the government can legally run a ponzi scheme. Personally I would take my money right now even if it were pennies on the dollar.

    1. You're Kidding   3 years ago

      It's been determined by SCOTUS, that you have no legal right to SS.

      in the 1960 case of Fleming v. Nestor, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that workers have no legally binding contractual rights to their Social Security benefits, and that those benefits can be cut or even eliminated at any time.

  24. Uomo Del Ghiaccio   3 years ago

    Joe Manchin should leave the Democrat party like Tulsi Gabbert and become independent. I would welcome both of them if they joined the Libertarian party even though neither are actually libertarian.

    I don't expect purity, but except a general agreement of some issues. Both Joe Manchin and Tulsi Gabbert are closer to agreement with some libertarian ideas than they are to the Democrat party. They also differ with other libertarian ideas.

    The Libertarian party needs a big tent to gain enough power to collapse the stranglehold that the duopoly holds. Once the duopoly is successfully dismantled then the size of the tent can be reduced, but until then members who are 60% in agreement are close enough.

  25. The Green Avenger   3 years ago

    "During the first two years of the Biden administration, Sen. Joe Manchin (D–W.Va.) often ended up having to be the responsible adult in the room."

    Nope. Sorry, but Joe only TALKS like a responsible adult, then VOTES like a DemoKKKrat. He knew damn well the so-called "Inflation Reduction Act" would CAUSE inflation, but VOTED FOR IT anyway!

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