Paul Krugman Says Social Security Is Sustainable. It's Really Not.
Krugman sees benefit cuts as "a choice" but believes that implementing a massive tax increase on American employers and workers would be "of course" no big deal.

For The New York Times' Paul Krugman, the real crisis facing America's entitlement programs is that the media isn't working hard enough to ignore their impending collapse.
"I've seen numerous declarations from mainstream media that of course Medicare and Social Security can't be sustained in their present form," Krugman wrote in a Times op-ed this week. "And not just in the opinion pages."
Perhaps that's because the unsustainable trajectories of Social Security and Medicare aren't a matter of opinion. They're factual realities, supported by the most recent annual reports of the programs' trustees and the independent analysis of the Congressional Budget Office (CBO). Social Security's main trust fund will hit insolvency somewhere between 2033 and 2035, according to those projections, while one of the main trust funds in Medicare will be insolvent before the end of this decade. When insolvency hits, there will be mandatory across-the-board benefit cuts—for Social Security, that's likely to translate into a roughly 20 percent reduction in promised benefits.
Nevertheless, Krugman says he's got a solution that "need not involve benefit cuts."
His argument boils down to three points. First, Krugman says the CBO's projections about future costs in Social Security and Medicare might be wrong. Second, he speculates that they might be wrong because life expectancy won't continue to increase. Finally, if those first two things turn out to be at least partially true, then it's possible that cost growth will be limited to only about 3 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) over the next three decades and we'll just raise taxes to cover that.
"America has the lowest taxes of any advanced nation; given the political will, of course we could come up with 3 percent more of G.D.P. in revenue," he writes. "We can keep these programs, which are so deeply embedded in American society, if we want to. Killing them would be a choice."
It's notable that Krugman sees benefit cuts as "a choice" but believes that implementing a massive tax increase on American employers and workers would be "of course" no big deal.
But that hardly addresses the substance of what he gets wrong. Let's take each of his three arguments in order and show why they're incorrect.
First, he says the CBO's projections about future costs for the two programs might be inaccurate because the agency is assuming that health care costs will continue to grow faster than the economy as a whole. At best, that means postponing insolvency by a few years. The structural imbalance between revenues and outlays means that depletion of the trust funds is a question of "when" and not "if," as this chart from the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget makes clear.

Krugman even concedes that despite a decline in the expected rate of growth in future health care costs, those costs are still expected to rise faster than the economy grows. Combined with the aging of America's population, this is a demographic and fiscal time bomb. Ignoring that reality is certainly not a sound policy strategy.
Second, he speculates that mortality rates might continue to drop. While that might be good news from an actuarial perspective, it seems both morally horrifying and incredibly risky to base a long-term entitlement program on the assumption that more people will die at a younger age.
In fact, Krugman gets this point exactly backward. Instead of banking on a decline in life expectancy, Congress ought to raise the eligibility age for collecting benefits from Social Security and Medicare. That would create the same demographic benefits on the accounting side even as people live hopefully longer, better lives.
Krugman would no doubt see such a change as an unacceptable benefit cut, but in reality it would restore Social Security to its proper role as a safety net for the truly needy, not a conveyer belt to transfer wealth from the younger, working population to the older, relatively wealthier retired population. When Social Security launched in 1935, the average life expectancy for Americans was 61. That's changed, so the program's parameters should too.
Finally, the blitheness of Krugman's actual solution—a massive tax increase—ignores all the knock-on effects of that idea. Keeping Social Security and Medicare whole will require a tax increase in excess of $1 trillion, which would have massive repercussions on wages, the costs of starting a business, and economic growth in general. It's far from an ideal solution.
In all, Krugman's column amounts to an argument that his addiction to donuts is totally sustainable as long as someone else agrees to keep buying donuts for him (and as long as he ignores the long-term costs to his health). Maybe the doctors are wrong about the projected consequences of eating too many donuts. Maybe it will turn out that living longer just isn't all that great anyway. But if all else fails, at least he's got someone else willing to pay for his habit—and making any changes would be tantamount to killing a tradition deeply embedded in the Krugman morning routine. We must take that option off the breakfast table.
Instead of lying to their readers and constituents, America's thought and political leaders (not just President Joe Biden and Krugman but lawmakers and media commentators on all sides) should start acknowledging that America's entitlement programs are not sustainable in their current form.
Without changes, they will wreck the economy or force many retirees to deal with sudden cuts to benefits they expected to receive. Maybe both. Waiting to deal with this problem will only make it worse. If Krugman's column is the best argument for the long-term sustainability of America's two major entitlement programs, it should only underline how seriously screwed they are.
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Has Paul Krugman ever been right on anything, especially regarding spending and economics?
His academic work was highly regarded before he sold out.
Highly regarded didn’t mean right.
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The CDC and FDA are highly regarded and widely followed by millions of Americans
They said everyone is at equal risk of monkeypox, and that obesity has little to do with diet and exercise.
So ya, the "highly regarded" ship sailed long ago in this post-truth world
His theoretical work wasn't that bad. It essentially concerned why, if comparative advantage holds, nations buy and sell the same product to one another (say, Ford trucks to Germany and BMWs to the US). His argument is that comparative advantage doesn't necessarily apply to broad categories, but more specific products - say, light trucks versus luxury sedans.
This may be true, but it wasn’t insightful. Pretty obvious actually.
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I thought it was mostly about transportation costs and “agglomeration”.
Even there, he looked at it from the point of view of a a soviet central planner. That is, given a set of simplistic assumptions, what does a simplistic mathematical model predict for overall market behavior in general, something that is of no interest to anybody other than government types meddling in the economy.
Highly regarded by other economically illiterate morons of course. He's never been right in his entire life. The guy has floated on the cache of his Nobel Prize. He's the least qualified person on earth to talk about economics or economic theories.
AOC and Bernie would accept that challenge
No businesses ever contact Paul Krugman for advice. He was made famous by CNN who never got anything right. This is probably why they are hurting. He's a Keynesian economist who totally misunderstood Mr. Maynard Keynes. He didn't mean for government to always spend no matter what. Paul Krugman does. Without a vibrant private sector, countries go broke!
Especially when ‘peer eeviewed’ means approval from other Marxists.
There are people who consider John Maynard keynes as highly regarded.
Or Algore
or John Fetterman
Paul Krugman has 100% accuracy. Whatever he says, it's always, always the opposite.
That's precision, not accuracy.
His core assertions are correct. The options to reduce the benefits or increase taxes are both choices. Each has consequences both intended and unintended.
The two projections – increased longevity and medical prices increases higher than economic growth – are both uncertainties not certainties. In particular, controlling medical price increases is also very much a matter of choice. WalMart can and does use its scale/power to drive supplier prices down. Medicare (which is 100% of the patient base for the highest medical usage market) has even more power than that – and it is generally not used.
Krugman's preferred options may be wrong. But looking at these all as choices should be driving us in the right direction. Making this all a very transparent (and even feisty) public discussion. That is a far more intelligent approach to dealing with the basic problem here than having everything be done by experts behind closed doors based on either their own info or their ideology.
LMAO. Of course you would defend Krugman. Of fucking course.
You are a caricature.
What part of ‘his preferred options may be wrong’ is DEFENDING Krugman.
You people are just too fucking stupid to function at any level beyond poo-flinging monkey. No wonder you all are perpetually irrelevant.
Says the retarded faggot, your takes are generally as bad as Krugman’s so this is not surprising.
You should apologize. It’s not our fault that you’re so regularly making buffoonish statements.
Sigh. Engaging in nuanced thought is “defending”.
Leftists are not capable of nuanced thought.
Why engage with these mouth-breathing cretins? This page is a joke since the Trump morons decided that Reason as "liberal" since they GASP had issues with that fucking monkey brained pile of shit whose sole purpose of governance was to fuck poor white trash over and make them love him, nonetheless. These people are the garbage of humanity. Hateful little tiny men who spend their entire days online responding to anything posted.
Y'all ought to talk to a few doctors and hospitals about their love of Medicare. They hate it because it is a loser. Private insurance is what floats their boats.
Correct and their main objective is not get you well but provide profits for the health organization ie: corporation and its stock holders.
"Medicare (which is 100% of the patient base for the highest medical usage market) has even more power than that – and it is generally not used."
This is 100% incorrect. Medicare & Medicaid chronically and infamously underpay for services and products. It is only due to legal inducements that they can find vendors, and those vendors treat them as a loss leader, making up their money elsewhere- generally the private market.
The notion that some central authority could just negotiate our way out of the massive price distortions inherent in the US health system is wishful denialism.
This is correct.
A new RAND study found that in 2020, employers and private health insurance plans paid hospitals 224% more than Medicare for inpatient and outpatient services, with wide variation in prices among states.
Hospital underpayment from Medicare shift to increased private insurance markets.
https://www.medicarerights.org/medicare-watch/2022/05/19/new-study-finds-that-private-plans-pay-hospitals-more-than-medicare-for-inpatient-and-outpatient-services
five minutes spent in injury claims will lead anyone to this ^^ conclusion.
I must have said it a thousand times, we need tort reform more than anything else.
Of course, I might be biased:
1) I spent two years subleasing office space from a PI attorney. The BS, acting and assumption of "helping the little people" was eye opening. And,
2) My sole proprietor dentist told me 40 years ago that his malpractice insurance ran in excess of $100,000/year.
Medicare & Medicaid chronically and infamously underpay for services and products.
IDK about Medicaid but Medicare absolutely does NOT underpay. The US has by FAR the highest pay for specialists - and far too many of most of them. We have by FAR the highest fixed cost medical base - meaning expensive machines that incur fixed costs whether they are used or not. Those are all paid for by Medicare - not by the under-65's who don't even go to the doctor much.
Medicare is specifically PROHIBITED from using its scale to bulk purchase medical services. That is all done at the SPECIFIC behest of the medical lobby.
That is how every employer with even 1000+ employees is able to self-insure. It knows roughly how many eg bypass surgeries or pregnancies will occur each year and sets up its networks for that baseline. It is how Kaiser/Mayo are able to establish their capacity (fixed costs) to the point where they can even pay their specialists a SALARY.
Medicare - with tens of millions of patients - knows almost exactly how many heart attacks and strokes and kidney transplants and knee replacements it will have each year. But instead of doing what even Kaiser and Mayo do, Medicare pretends that its all onesies and twosies. Every fucking transaction is fee-for-service as if its all a big surprise and everything should be full retail.
Which of course it is since Medicare, with 50 years of being able to predict that the boomer population might require geriatricians (who can save a ton of money for their patients via specialist utilization) once they hit 65, did nothing to actually encourage the training of geriatricians. So we now have fewer geriatricians than Denmark (an over-65 population of 1.4 million) - and dropping.
Medicare is a giant fraud - with specialists etc as the beneficiaries. And those folks KNOW its a special interest fraud for them. Sure as shooting - they will have their useful idiots (you) pop up crying poverty every time anyone mentions Medicare.
This comment right after me posting the latest study is fucking hilarious.
Yeah. "If only US specialists would work for minimum wage!"
If only you were capable of reading your own links for comprehension.
Very little pricing variation is explained by each hospital’s share of patients covered by Medicare or Medicaid; a larger portion is attributable to hospital market power. This finding challenges industry claims that Medicare and Medicaid payment rates drive up costs for privately insured people and matches previous studies that show hospitals in concentrated markets focus on raising prices to private insurers, while hospitals in competitive markets focus on cutting costs.
Rand was not interested in some political gotcha study. They understand what they are doing and what they are actually studying. You don't understand shit.
You dont understand what you posted do you? It doesn't matter what the hospital share of Medicare patients are as it is comparing like procedures. How fucking retarded are you jfree?
When Obama was passing ACA there were dozens of articles estimating a 20-30% cost shift to private plans and all profit of medical providers from private. Medicare estimated at 96% of cost, medicaid at 90% of cost. That is cost, not with profit mark ups.
I know you're a big supporter of state programs. But try to understand the fucking conversation.
The issue is on the demand side. People began to demand that health insurance should pay for everything and anything. And, employers and insurers complied. As did governmental insurance programs. Thus, cost considerations went out the window and supply costs became unconstrained.
"We want it all and we want it now!" - Jim Morrison.
"Money for nothing and our chicks for free." - Dire Straits
Totally agree. Health insurance should really be for catastrophic events only. If people have to pay out of pocket for routine office visits and other non-emergency expenses, they will spend their medical dollars much more carefully.
Everybody overpays for medical services and drugs in the US. At the heart of it is a greedy medical cartel that operates free of market constraints.
Medical insurance as it has become, enabled this.
As it has become due to government interference. Free markets were tossed aside in 1945.
IOW. Which Statist Command & Control option should we use? A, B, C, D, or some combination thereof? And no. Statist Command & Control options never work no matter how nice you make them sound.
Getting rid of Medicare and SS is also an option. With intended and unintended consequences. That option will however be ignored precisely because those who are interested in that option will keep yapping about Statist Command and Control every time anyone wants to know what the consequences might be.
Taking away entitlements is always a no go.
Just ask the farmers in California who believer their entitled to any water that flows in the state.
The phrase ‘entitlement program’ is unique to the US. And has a very specific definition A Federal program or provision of law that requires payments to any person or unit of government that meets the eligibility requirements established by law. Entitlements constitute a binding obligation on the part of the Federal government, and eligible recipients have legal recourse if the obligation is not fulfilled
So yeah – entitlement programs will not change. Other countries call those sorts of programs ‘social protection’ or somesuch. They do not have the same problems as here. But an entirely different set of problems altogether. They regularly include discussions about reforming said programs. eg As we speak, the French are ‘discussing’ pension reform.
Personally I would support that sort of res publica activity. V what we’ve had in the US for my entire adult life re SS/Medicare – a reform in 1983 and NOTHING since then. I had no idea in 1983 that that would be the last public discussion about reforming those. And the last one possible until the ‘trust fund’ goes dry.
The fact that the word entitlement was used was a ruse to break down the resistance to accepting welfare or other subsidies from the government. At one time people didn't expect a lot of government handouts. I've seen a lot of people on the left point out the marginal tax rates of 90% of the 1950's and earlier as a place to aspire to but neglect that a tax rate of 10% started at net incomes over $1,000.
So, the use of propaganda was used and welfare was changed to entitlements so that people didn't feel bad about taking it but rather they were getting something they were "entitled to get" and redistribution of income could become acceptable to the American public.
His assertions are utterly baseless in that a child could formulate them at the core level. Social Security needs to be laid to rest. It is not the job of the government to be the welfare state. Have a cut-off date for sunsetting it for good. Refund back people's taxes for that year and tell them that they need to figure out their own retirements. The government isn't your mother. Entitlements need to go. They are swallowing up 65% of every yearly budget. That's money that will never return in ROI. It's just keeping the economic zombie alive.
"It is not the job of the government to be the welfare state."
From your lips....
I say this often. Usually with something along the lines of, "Show me in the constitution where this is?". But, only behind a keyboard. Because in real life, I'd be strung up and quartered for even suggesting that people have a responsibility, if not a full duty, to figure out how to care for themselves as a perquisite to having the freedom to do so.
Hey, I’m good with that. I haven’t started drawing my SS yet so just refund me my and my employer’s forced contributions over the last 45 years plus interest and I will be on my merry way!
No they are not! He has never been right on any economic decision! They lie about deficits! Maynard Keynes would be upset with Paul Krugman! He thinks government can't spend enough! He and Biden's policy of 'spend, spend, spend,' is killing the private sector, causing poverty, and pushing inflation! If it continues, it will be a disaster!
That policy and, the very concept are certainly not limited to the current administration.
One might venture to say, it all took off with FDR and the "New Deal".
But please, for your own safety, don't make such an assertion in front of actual people who might do you harm.
In addition to initiating the bankrupting of the USA, FDR threw 70,000 people into concentration camps on the basis of their race.
And he has a monument on the mall. People should be tearing that down or pissing on it.
FDR was helped by Edward Bernays the father of propaganda. It is why they called the payments and other income redistributions entitlements and not welfare.
He used to be one of the most prominent voices on free trade and globalization and the impact of economies of scale. He recognized the reality of rising inequality due to increased trade but I never read anything by him on radically liberal social policy until after his most well-known academic work was well behind him.
No. He's an economically illiterate moron. Ironically, he got his Nobel Prize for Economics on an economic theory graph that no one has ever used. Ever. He neither understands economics nor he's further plagued by injecting his economic idiocy through the lens of progressive radical Marxist ideology.
Not once.
Doesn't matter. The 4-5 prominent Republicans that supported benefit cuts have already backpedaled after Fatass declared his edict that the programs won't be touched.
As a supporter of gridlock I'm good with nothing happening until 2033 - if then. No tax increases or benefit cuts for a decade is in the cards already.
If something is too expensive to continue, it will eventually stop.
Sorry reality does not play your games.
The government doesn't care about reality either. They will print money into infinity if it meant that the bureaucratic class gets to keep their grift in perpetuity. That will be our undoing and no one seems to give a shit that government is a large, fat, bloated obese pig falling down on top of all of us in slow motion.
Is that the other way 'out of this mess'? Just print more money to send to SS and Medicare recipients?
Of course, the inflation will be un-fucking-believable!
He fucks kids, so his opinion is irrelevant.
Jeffrey Epstein, is that you?
No, but Shrike is his retarded half son.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
"Social Security's main trust fund will hit insolvency...." About 20 years ago, there was an article that said there is no trust fund. The "SSA trustees gave the surplus tax collections to Congress in exchange for IOUs. It's shocking that the untrustworthy trustees have file cabinets full of IOUs. The were too lazy or dishonest to at least buy US bonds. Any fiduciary of a private pension plan caught taking IOUs would be in prision.
Get a grip on reality. The SS trust funds are invested in special US government bonds that pay interest, just like all government bonds do. While it is true that all publicly and privately issued bonds are, in effect, IOU’s and their value is dependent on the credit worthiness of the bond issuer, the SS trust funds were not just given to Congress for plain IOU’s.
Krugman flipped from economist to political pundit many, many years ago.
IIRC his wife reviews his writing to ensure it is properly messaged.
I wonder if this is a case of Woodrow Wilsonism, if Paul has had a stroke and wifey is filling in.
And here I was taught in an MPA program that Woodrow Wilson was the "Father of public administration".
What they have in common is, they're both academics. And, this is what happens when we accept academics as unquestioned authorities.
Virtually every column by Krugman is a slight variation on "Republicans bad, Democrats good". One of the mysteries of life is why anyone would take this asshat seriously.
Why not gradually increase the age for eligibility? It's increasing life expectancy that buggered up SS. Makes sense to increase the effective retirement age.
It's the logical thing to do, as far as practical political solutions. Ought to make it a percentage of life expectancy.
Won't be an easy political sell, but I can't think of anything easier.
"It's the logical thing to do....."
And therefore, the complete opposite will be done instead.
"a percentage of life expectancy"
would be quite different for a black kid and a white female Mormon.
Because you are trying to impute common sense into a poltical landscape that is anathema to common sense.
Increased adult life expectancy (meaning at age 50 onward rather than from birth) in the US is very much a function of income.
For males born in 1930, their life expectancy at age 50 (meaning in 1980 when they began to prepare for retirement) was 26.6 remaining years (76.6 total years) for those in the lowest 20% income and 31.7 remaining years (81.7 years) for those in the top 20% income.
For males born in 1960, their life expectancy at age 50 (ie in 2010 when they began to prepare for retirement) was 26.5 remaining years (76.5 total years) for the lowest 20% and 38.8 remaining years (88.7 total years).
IOW life expectancy of low income males has DROPPED over the last generation. The growing difference in life expectancy also has a massive impact on the programs liabilities. On both SS (years of receiving benefits) and Medicare (both years of receiving medical care AND the different nature of services and 'sudden death' in the 70's v the late 80's).
We should stop seeing this as an entitlement and more as a means-tested safety net. We are nowhere near any public discussion of this. Which means any 'solution' offered here/now is purely ideological and technocratic - and dishonest and opaque.
As an aside - the life expectancy at age 50 for those born in 1890 - ie who turned 50 in 1940 just when SS came into existence - was 22 years.
The life expectancy at age 50 for those born in 1910 - who turned 50 in 1960 just before Medicare - was 23.4 years.
What happened is that Medicare ITSELF is what extended life expectancy - of the higher income - those with the most access to the medical system over their adult life pre-retirement. Before 65, they had GP's and had good general health because of that. So Medicare was simply a subsidy for the specialists they would access after 65 as they aged. For the poor, they didn't have GP's - had worse health at age 65 - and didn't benefit from those specialists because their health was already poor.
So, what's your point other than saying that anyone offering "solutions" is simply being dishonest and opaque?
"...What happened is that Medicare ITSELF is what extended life expectancy..."
Assertions from lefty shits =/= evidence or argument. Stuff your PANIC flag up your ass, fuck off and die.
@JFree, not IS.
"What happened is that Medicare ITSELF is what extended life expectancy"
Medicare never "subsidized" general practitioners.
I know that. Maybe I should have been clearer in that sentence. Medicare extended life expectancy of those who were already healthy and more likely to reach 80 years old. That is apparently where the specialists (who have been subsidized by Medicare) make their biggest contributions to life expectancy. Not so much by the big heroic jumps but by the continual utilization of specialist medical services by the 80+ crowd (aka my own parents)
Maybe you shouldn't rely on bald assertions to defend big government graft.
Majority of Medicare spending is in the last year of life...
IOW, by people on their last legs desperately trying to postpone the inevitable (not that I blame them for that).
I suspect it's more healthcare providers pushing reimbursable tests and ever more tests than people trying to extend a 9m expectation to 10m.
Surely lots of savings have been (or will be) realized by all of the old people that died during the plague and won't collect future benefits or need any more medical care?
I haven't crunched the numbers, but the amount saved probably isn't chump change. And if there are a couple of more plagues in the next decade or two (that also primarily kill old people), the savings could really start to add up.
Could be. Unless the elderly who died of covid were also on the lower income side. I suspect that is the case for the younger ones where the co-morbidities tend to be highly linked to poor and where there was no ability to isolate for a year.
Is the entirety of your knowledge bald assertions?
Medicare is useless for extending life expectancy meaningfully. After retirement, medicine is all bandaids and quick fixes, none of which will substantially extend your life.
If you want to live a long life, statistically, you need to live a healthy lifestyle, nothing more and nothing less.
The reason higher income groups are healthier is because they live a more healthy lifestyle. E.g. the upper middle class has less than half the obesity rate of the poor.
Life expectancy in the US depends of lifestyle choices. Poor people make poor lifestyle choices.
That is not a result of poverty, since people abroad far poorer than “poor” Americans and without Medicare/Medicaid are doing much better.
For males born in 1960, their life expectancy at age 50 (ie in 2010 when they began to prepare for retirement) was 26.5 remaining years (76.5 total years) for the lowest 20% and 38.8 remaining years (88.7 total years).
IOW life expectancy of low income males has DROPPED over the last generation. The growing difference in life expectancy also has a massive impact on the programs liabilities. !
So Democrats DO have a plan for solving the problem – they are slowly reducing people’s life expectancy with fentanyl and defunding the police, and making more people poor. Brilliant!
So, by “means-tested safety net”, you mean it should be reserved for those who were either unwilling to do what it took to plan for retirement or were frivolous with their spending, even though they had good incomes. SS is already a semi-welfare system, as it provides proportionally much greater benefits to those who earned less. Turning it into a total welfare system that rewards a lifetime of poor choices will lead to a flood of new tax schemes by higher earners, in order to reduce their taxable “earned” income.
It is not solely the increased life expectancy. The fundamental problem is that there are today far fewer people working (and paying SS taxes) per retiree. In 1960 there were 5 workers to each retiree. Currently that is closer to 2. While this is partially due to people living longer, it is also due to people having fewer children.
A lot of that is because SS has been extended to more and more people.
And don't forget the ever expanding SS disability.
Agree. When the program was relatively new and had much more money coming in than going out, politicians could not resist the urge to use these excess funds to buy more votes. Hence, SS funds were required to pay for an increasing number of entitlement categories. Perhaps they should remove these added-on categories and get SS back to its original intent - to ensure that workers who paid in during their working years had at least one guaranteed source of income during their retirement years.
If a private corporation decided to devise a retirement funding product based exactly on Social Security, how long would it be before most of the C-Suite executives of that company were facing charges for running a fraudulent Ponzi scheme?
Why not gradually increase the age for eligibility? It’s increasing life expectancy that buggered up SS.
People living to older ages is not the same as people being able to work to older ages. Most people leave full-time work in their sixties because they are no longer capable of it, even though modern medical care can keep them alive for much longer in most cases. Also, expecting old people to work does not mean the employers will welcome them. People slow down physically and mentally, and their skills and knowledge become out-of-date. It's very difficult for an unemployed 55-year-old to find a job—if you're 75, forget about it.
Nailed it, Vernon! Most of the reason pieces imply that the vast majority of these old to really-old people that are drawing benefits are fantastically wealthy while the young people paying in to the system are dirt poor.
I'd take poor youth over geriatric wealth. Younger people will always tend to have less financial wealth, but youth is a wealth of its own sort.
One mistake they make is defining old people as well-off because their house is paid off, ignoring the fact that they would have to pay rent if they cashed out of their house. Maybe 20% of retired people actually have enough retirement savings to survive without SS checks and Medicare. That proportion will decline as real incomes continue to stagnate or fall.
They probably would say that the old person wouldn't have to pay rent in order to "cash out" because the free market provides a solution where the old person could get some cash from the original magnum p.i. using a reverse mortgage - and while remaining in the house. Magnum p.i. swears that a reverse mortgage is not a plot to take away the old person's house. Magnum doesn't say anything about how the reverse mortgage might effect leaving the house to children or other heirs after death. I'm guessing that in those cases, magnum gets the house instead of the kids. But magnum didn't lie, because the old person would be dead, so magnum couldn't have taken the house from the old person. Maybe just from the kids.
People living to older ages is not the same as people being able to work to older ages.
That's a very fair point, but I suspect that in general labour is less physically demanding than in times past, and people less inclined to accumulate, er, "wear and tear".
The body is not always the first thing to go. The mind can get pretty foggy first. Sure, gammy can still probably get a low-cognitive-duty job at a big box store or other minimum wage job, if such employer will have gammy over a younger person. And if we (as a society) don't mind having gammy perform that sort of task until they put her in the grave.
Indeed. One on,y has to look as far as our resident senile crackpot, Hank Phillips. Then there is Pennsylvania’s new junior senator.
Because of democrats, that cannot happen.
Well, that might help. But, it's still a defined benefit plan combined with an actuarial one. And, run like as a Ponzi scheme.
That would have no effect, other than to screw those who want to retire earlier.
A person's SS monthly payment is a function of when they retire. If you retire early, you get a reduced monthly payment. And if a person who retires early happens to live past the average life expectancy they will get a lower total payout then they would have if they had started drawing at full retirement age.
Current federal receipts are near all time highs as a percent of GDP.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FYFRGDA188S
Seriously, if Paul Krugman says anything you can safely assume the opposite is true. Every damn time.
He is on par with Jim Cramer legend status of "basically whatever this guy says, do the opposite" and maybe, best case scenario, gets the broken clock rarity of saying something resembling correct.
That anyone even considers listening to this guy after he has been wrong so many times is embarrassing
A broken clock is usually correct twice per day. He's been right perhaps twice. Total.
Just for the record, a broken clock is never 'correct'.
By coincidence, it matches the correct time twice a day, but unless you already know the correct time, you don't know when that occurs.
So a broken clock can never tell you the time.
Noted
Does anyone still have clocks?
My house has one in it’s walls somewhere.
Our office just had to replace the traditional clock at our sign-in table / receptionist desk with a digital one.
Why?
Gen Z.
Sad!
how do you know the clock is broken if it is telling correct time?
#believeallclocks
Time is a social construct, it can be whatever time you want it to be.
sarc says, “It’s five o'clock somewhere.”
Great article yesterday in the WSJ discussing Sweden’s reforms to social security and how it can be done successfully.
It’d be great if that could happen here. But between the two parties, their activist sides, and the news media, problem solving just isn’t a thing here anymore.
it needs to be phased out entirely, not "reformed"
It will take time but the best approach to SS is to phase out benefits 1/20th at a time for the next 20 years, and reduce payroll tax as well.
Obviously, in an ideal world, there would be no income or payroll tax whatsoever.
I disagree. Social security, or similar safety net, is required in a modern society.
If we decide as a country that we want a safety net, it shouldn’t look anything like SS.
I'm definitely open to other ideas for the safety net than what SS now. I just know you need one.
Where is that in the Constitution?
It’s not in the Constitution. It’s just something the Constitution allows to occur.
Original court cases that defended against court cases relied on SS being a blind and fair program. Known equation. Everyone pays in and recieves. As the program becomes more of a monetary shift away from neutrality the original arguments preserving it in court go away. Especially if means testing is implemented.
I'm not sure I understand your point?
Democrats are already pushing for means testing SS. That would make the program illegal under the guidance of challenges in court against the programs originally. It remains legal solely because it is defined as non transfer of wealth. Removing people from pay out as many dems suggest would make SS illegal.
It was not passed as a tax and benefit program.
Laws can be changed.
Okay. But like Vernon said, laws can be changed. The Constitution doesn't prevent that from occurring.
Then it should be easy to do it legally, and get a constitutional amendment passed allowing it.
The Constitution already allows it.
Which part?
The part that allows the legislature to pass and the president to sign bills into law. This is pretty common knowledge.
I know you're playing the obtuse game of if the Constitution doesn't specifically say something, you can't have it, but that's not what the Constitution does. The Constitution allows the citizens of the country to create laws and allows representatives to pass legislation.
Yes, they’re called enumerated powers. And that is exactly what the constitution does. Hence the tenth amendment for everything else.
Federal legislation is allowed within the confines of the federal government’s enumerated powers. Period.
I literally list the enumerated powers below, which you somehow don't understand are the enumerated powers.
Please point to the clause in Article I Section 8 that allows it.
"The Congress shall have Power To . . . provide for the . . . general Welfare of the United States . . .."
"To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."
Within the enumerated powers. You’re very ignorant on how the constitution works. Please educate yourself.
I literally quoted the enumerated powers.
I suggest when you tell someone that they need to educate themselves about a subject, you actually know about the subject yourself.
Right. Social Security will be eliminated and replaced with a means-tested welfare program for the elderly. But, no politician is going to say that out loud for a few more years. I don't believe your gentle phase-out will happen—affluent retirees who get cut off will just get screwed.
They've also had a few articles of late about about how Britain's NHS is in deep trouble.
But, on social media, I continue to see British citizens crowing about their great NHS system and how they can't believe how "cruel" the U.S. private health insurance programs are.
A serious parallel on how well the SS and Medicare debates are playing out here. "I paid in so...." "Electric third rail of politics"... "If only they would...."
>The only way to make social security affordable is for old people to suddenly start dying off earlier
Sounds like assisted suicide is going to start getting a lot more
popularhyped up.Paging Dr. Trudeau...
Sounds a lot like the fatality pattern of COVID.
Just because that applies to a host of other things doesn't make this tinfoil hat any less fashionable.
That, and/or employers finding ways to make use of old people.
Soylent Green?
"Noted idiot and almost always incorrect person, Paul Krugman, says..."
I don't think it's as dire as some say, but krugman is a blithering idiot who has been wrong about almost everything. It's stunning really.
And yet, he regularly gets press coverage and receives accolades as a Nobel Laureate. What was that Goebbels was rumored to have said?
Krugman will always veer towards centralized control.
Breaking news! Krugman is still full of shit.
Canada is using its assisted suicide program (MAID) as a method to bring down government provided health care costs. An academic floated an idea that the solution to Japan’s top-heavy population profile is elderly suicide which perhaps should be made mandatory. Maybe Krugman has some reason to expect life expectancy to decrease?
Yeah, expect to see this "solution" floated quite a bit in first and second-world nations with senior entitlement programs. The mathematical reality is that you really need a strong worker-beneficiary ratio to make these programs workable, and we havent' had that for probably a generation.
Expect to start seeing "I wanted to be sure I wouldn't be a burden on my children in my old age" or "I'd seen others go through this treatment, and I won't put myself through that suffering"-type of commercials and promotion of these initiatives in the media within the next 2-5 years, if not sooner.
“I’d seen others go through this treatment, and I won’t put myself through that suffering”
That's actually how I feel about it. There are several conditions for which I would refuse treatment.
Canada has assisted suicide, the United States has Cuomo and Murphy.
FTFY.
"but in reality it would restore Social Security to its proper role as a safety net for the truly needy,"
Sorry, not even close.
It was instituted to get older workers to retire, so unemployed young men could take their place. Way back then, most jobs were actual "work". You may have read about it, making actual things, using your muscles and all that?
And the old guys still needed income, so they wouldn't leave a job. Social security was a straight bribe, because large numbers of unemployed young men have worried politicians since the French Revolution.
Now democrats bribe young men to stay home.
Or to become women.
If you look at the original law as written, that's not exactly true. It was a welfare program for those elderly and destitute.
No it wasn’t - there have never been restrictions on receiving SS if you had other retirement income. SS was intended to ensure that all workers who paid in over their working years had at least one guaranteed source of income during their retired years. Whether or not you had a private pension or other investment income during retirement has never been considered from day one. SS is already a semi-welfare program, as higher-wage earners get proportionally much less in return than do lower-wage earners. However, it was never intended to solely be a welfare program for those who failed to prepare for their own retirement.
Note: This is how to shill for the status quo.
numerous declarations from mainstream media
With no citations. They were probably all quoting Krugman. Circular confirmation is what passes for fact checking these days at 'America's Paper of Record'.
“fixing” social security is simple and straightforward, except for the part of finding politicians with balls.
Remove the wage cap, eliminate early retirement, reduce the late retirement bonus to the actual cost of living, and adjust the retirement age to account for current life span. All but the first will have to be done gradually, but faster then is now law.
Now, medicare will be a bit more difficult – – – – – –
"Balls" means here likely political career suicide.
You are not going to find many pols willing to do that.
Removing the cap on earnings subject to the tax alone eliminates roughly two thirds of the projected deficit. Raising the retirement age or eliminating early retirement is a substantial and unnecessary cut in benefits. But there are other changes that could eliminate the balance of the shortfall. For example, adjust the benefit formula to the highest bend point is 13% instead of 15% and for those with earnings over $200,000 a 5% calculation. Or, change the way the COLA is calculated. Or, god forbid, even raise the tax rate by 1%. This is hardly a massive increase no matter how many times you say it is.
COLAs alone create unsustainability in any such schemes. That's why defined benefit plans have been essentially eliminate in the private sector. Everyone finally woke up to them being unsustainable. And why, you'll only hear about COLAs in government.
Actually I'd say it's a very sound political strategy. Maybe not a sound fiscal strategy, but as far as political strategy goes it seems to work just fine.
In fact, the last time any prominent national politician even suggested reforming SS and Medicare was, I believe, Paul Ryan back in 2012. Where is he now?
It is a sound political strategy and perhaps a disastrous fiscal strategy. I fully expect that the politicians will do nothing to reform Social Security until they are faced with automatic benefit cuts, and probably beyond. There is little gain in putting their necks on the line to solve this problem relative to risking their political viability.
Tighter term limits?
I have been assured by Top Men, all we need to do is make those unneeded billionaires pay their fair share and all is good.
And, you are therefore one among millions who believe that such is true. You know, all those Top Men wouldn't say it if it wasn't.
This always amuses me because at one point on my blog, I manually updated a graphic on the number of days since Krugman had promised a plan to save Social Security in a Jan. 4, 2005 NYTimes column. (http://www.pkarchive.org/column/010405.html)
Week after week came and went with no suggestions from Krugman on how to shore up Social Security. I believe my banner got into the 800+ days before I abandoned it.
I have never understood how the guy whose columns have made no sense for 20 years could be a Nobel laureate. Was his Economics award awarded for the same reasons as Obama's peace prize?
His Nobel was for the economics of trade: "By having integrated economies of scale into explicit general equilibrium models, Paul Krugman has deepened our understanding of the determinants of trade and the location of economic activity" – and IIRC it was generally agreed within the economoi that his work deserved it, though the economics Nobel is soft compared to science Nobels, IMO. That doesn’t qualify him as an expert on actuarial economics, just as being a cardiologist doesn’t qualify you as an expert on, say, epidemiology.
So about the same as Obama’s.
20 years is polite.
He's not. The Swedish Banksters' Prize is not a Nobel prize.
-jcr
Same reason Obama won the Peace prize for doing nothing to stop wars. The fix has been in for a while now.
At least pro wrestling is on the up and up.
Yes! Sadly, that cheapened the whole shebang.
Nope. The Peace Prize to Obama was absurd - not quite as absurd as its award to Kissinger, but absurd nonetheless.
The Economics prize to Krugman was genuinely justified in the context of the requirements. I still don't think as highly of the Econ prize as the real science prizes but it's not chopped liver either.
Krugman still wrong, film at 11.
Seriously Reason, why are you still giving this Keynesian idiot any time and attention?
-jcr
I think he's shown that he's well left of Keynes for a long time.
Government Uber Ales!
A more honest headline:
NYT Desperately Promotes Pet Nobel Economist As Authority, But Really, He's Full Of Shit
I would like to revisit and have a discussion about what exactly are people entitled to? Are people entitled to a thousand dollars a month and all the free medical care they can consume no matter how much of a black hole their health becomes and no matter how poorly they care for themselves exacerbating the black hole health issues, from age 62 until finally the medical industrial complex can no longer prop them up? As medical technology continues to create new interventions that are increasingly expensive and which prop up the lives of people who really should be dead, the problem will only get worse.
If we can't come up with some logical limits to what people are entitled to, then just let the damned thing fail.
It's not a question of what they're "entitled" to. It's about whether and to what extent we wish to take care of those who can no longer contribute enough to make a living. Because, we're like, decent and Christian and stuff.
people who really should be dead
In my experience, whether someone should be dead has nothing to do with their age.
I'm sure glad you can figure out the logical limits of how long people should be allowed to live. On the other hand my wife is 71 years old, smokes a pack a day, still works, weighs the same 130 lbs. she did at 30 and drinks all the beer she wants. I'm also guessing she could kick your ass with both hands tied behind her back. So I say you go first. Prove me wrong.
40 acres and a mule?
Tax RATES are nothing but a wish, a dream, a fantasy.
Tax REVENUES are never above 20% of GDP. (Currently around 17%)
The solution is simple, and the authors know it
Repeal the cap on income, which alone would solve 9/10 of the future underfunding and raise the payroll tax by a tiny tax increase: "such as a gradual increase of 0.3 percentage points each for employees and employers (or less than $3 per week for an average earner), could close about one-fifth of the gap. " Problem solved, and if we do it now the $2.8 trillion surplus could remain as a safety net or be used to increase payments! (source: chpp.org)
Would the public (ie the 92% making under the current cap) support eliminating the cap for the 8% making $150K and the 1% making over 400K with a guarantee of future solvancy, an increase of $4 a week in payroll taxes, and increased benefits until the 2.8 trillion surplus falls to, say one trillion (as a safety net)? Yes!
"Nearly nine in ten Americans (85%) say Social Security is more important than ever to ensure that retirees have a dependable income. These views cut across age and income lines: those agreeing include 81% of Americans in Generation X and 92% of those in the Early Boomers or prior generations, as well as 88% of people with family incomes under $30,000, 89% of those earning between $50,000 and $75,000, and 78% of those earning over $100,000.
Moreover, Americans are willing to pay more to keep Social Security strong. About 8 in 10 (77%) say it is critical to preserve Social Security even if it means increasing the Social Security taxes paid by working Americans. An even higher percentage (83%) say it is critical to preserve Social Security even if it means increasing the Social Security taxes paid by wealthy Americans. These findings hold true across party lines, age groups, race and ethnicity, and income levels." nasi.org
So the change is simple and a vast majority support itl There is no rational reason to oppose it, other than greed.
On paper, you’re right. However, you didn’t mention how those increases would lessen the chance for fraudulent claims being paid, consuming the additional revenues starting as soon as they arrive. Not saying the cap shouldn’t be lifted, indeed it should. Only pointing out that alone doesn’t even delay the problem of those programs going insolvent as they’re already ripe with fraudulent claims that can never be recovered. It’s just par for the course when government people choose to spend other peoples money instead of their own, first.
Besides, Krugman has nothing to worry about. He’ll either be dead by 2035 or have enough that “So-So Security” (maybe it’ll be there, maybe it won’t) money will never come into play.
Repealing the cap on income amounts to the largest tax increase in American history, but, like Krugman, you apparently have never met a tax you didn't like (unless you had to pay it). And yes, most people will vote for it if it doesn't effect them. But when has tax aimed at the evil rich even not ended up devastating the middle class? The feds are already talking about going after some barista's tip money. Do they qualify as the evil rich?
We're either going to start means testing of some sort, or we're going to have to privatize it, which is what we could have done in the '80s when this wouldn't have been so God-awful onerous.
You're obviously not a libertarian, as we don't believe keeping what we earned to be "greed". Greed is wanting something that doesn't belong to you and figuring out a way to take it. It's what politicians do. Or Bernie Madoff. Or Sam Bankman-Fried. Or you.
Essentially that creates a pure, punishing tax versus social safety net. Also - not simple as self-employed pay both sides and thus absurdly penalized. Both rational reasons to oppose.
A basic option is to STOP all COLA increases - it's absurd to increase payments for those already on the dole. Additionally, pay what was actually promised and nothing more.
Finallhy - ruthlessly go after all those who are receiving income but not paying SS which would dramatically change the payer/payee ratio.
self-employed pay both sides
Everyone pays both sides. The "employer contribution" is a fantasy.
Yeah. Nobody has ever explained how it benefits an employer to give an employees wages to the government instead of just giving it to the employee.
because "fair share"...duh! whenever i ask folks why on earth an employer should buy health insurance for an employee they look at me like i have a dick growing out of my forehead. i tell 'em to demand new furniture too. why not? car insurance too. everyone thinks unions were the originator of employer paid health insurance. i was surprised to find out they were not
These are the COLA nuts. (insert picture of government employees)
Then you need to remove the cap on benefits.
Confiscating the unearned excess wealth of fucking Charles Koch and the rest of the overlords should do the trick.
Oh, look at the little Bolshevik.
Oppressed any kulaks lately?
Define "unearned" other than it wasn't you who earned it?
What's your next guess?
-jcr
"Second, he speculates that they might be wrong because life expectancy won't continue to increase."
Paul probably has some inside info from the DNC.
Covid vaccines have disrupted the actuarily tables.
actuarial tables. Edit button is always gray.
Actuarily, your correction is a Freudian slip.
Well, if Paul ENRON Krugmann says something, it's almost always wrong
First of all let's all stipulate to some facts,
Paul Krugman is an idiot.
Jeffery Epstein didn't kill himself.
Fuck Joe Biden.
Also I really wish Reason would stop saying dumb shit like
"Social Security's main trust fund will hit insolvency somewhere between 2033 and 2035, according to those projections, while one of the main trust funds in Medicare will be insolvent before the end of this decade. When insolvency hits, there will be mandatory across-the-board benefit cuts—for Social Security, that's likely to translate into a roughly 20 percent reduction in promised benefits."
Let's stipulate that the various "trust funds" are not assets but in fact debts. Do you get that Eric? How exactly does a debt become insolvent? And how do you cut benefits from a trust fund that is now and always has been worth exactly zero USD?
Monopoly money?
Interestingly, Krugman said something a bit different from what Reason says.
1) He did not demand "massive" tax increases, rather he said remove the much to low cap on Social security (Currently 162K) and simply increase it to much larger number or place no cap at all. Yes, you will pay more into FICA withholding, but it will be paid by the more wealthy who can easily afford it. Nobody's tax bracket increases, but the super rich have the privilege to pay more because they make (a lot) more.
2) Tell Medicare to get off it's butt and start negotiating the price off every drug, not one or two. This reduces payments to the big drug makers who charge the US much higher prices than every other country. Remove the ill conceived law that says Medicare cannot negotiate the price of drugs and must pay list price. Good grief!)
3) And as a "side hustle" eliminate "Carried Interest" that allows Hedge Funds and Private Capital funds to pay capital gains rate on income vs Tax Table rates that the rest of us pay. Take the additional taxes collected and shore up Medicare.
4) The baby Boomers, of which I am one, are both not procreating anymore and in reality we are all dying off. The replacement rate of the US is below 1-1 now, along with some wealthy countries in really deep doo-doo like Germany and Japan, and now China. Fewer living old people need less medical care.
So, I disagree with about 90% of the comments here, which seemed to be to be more of an enraged rant than fact based commentary. If you all think you are Libertarians, think again. And Eric Boehm; fact check before you put pen to paper!
If you do this right, you fix the currently untenable system.
Anyone making over $162K is super rich?
Every taxpayer has the "privilege" to pay more to reduce the national debt, here's the address:
Gifts to the United States
U.S. Department of the Treasury
Reporting and Analysis Branch 2
P.O. Box 1328
Parkersburg, WV 26106-1328
Rather than calling on all your fellow Americans to sacrifice for the Greater Good, why don't you lead by your example? Post your canceled check when payment is complete. Otherwise, zip it. Far too many people want to point whose ox should be gored, but never their own. Why is that?
Meanwhile, here's an idea that actually works:
How Sweden Saved Social Security
Centrist parties of the left and right came together 30 years ago to save pensions from insolvency. By Johan Norberg
February 23, 2023
‘There are few issues on which Sweden and the United States are not in perfect sync,” then-Vice President Joe Biden said here in 2016. Here’s one: Social Security. President Biden refuses to consider any reforms, and so do many Republicans. But that won’t save the program; it’ll doom it. In a little over a decade, the trust fund will be exhausted.
Sweden faced the same problem in the early 1990s. The old pay-as-you-go pension system had promised too much. With fewer births and longer lives, projections showed the system would be insolvent a decade later. As Mr. Biden has said in another context, Sweden has “an ethic of decency.” Its politicians chose not to deceive the voters. The center-left Social Democrats acknowledged that the system “would not withstand the stresses that can be foreseen.”
In 1994 the Social Democrats agreed with the four center-right parties to create an entirely new system based on the principle that pensions should correspond to what the beneficiary pays into the system—a system in which the contribution, not the benefits, is defined.
The reforms were designed to make it impossible to run a deficit and pass the costs to future generations. Crucially, the agreement introduced a balancing mechanism nicknamed “the brake.” When the economy is doing worse than expected, pension benefits are automatically reduced, and when the economy picks up again, the brake is released.
Sweden introduced partial privatization of the kind the American left derides as a Republican plot to gamble our money away on the stock market. The Swedish government withholds roughly 2.3% of wages and puts it into individual pension accounts. Workers are allowed to choose up to five different funds in which to invest this money, according to their own risk preference, and can change them at any time free.
Commentators claim partial privatization would mean that pensions could be lost in a financial crash. That ignores that the money isn’t all invested or withdrawn at the same time, meaning that the performance in a single year isn’t crucial. The returns from the normal income pension is around 2% per year, but from the private accounts the average Swede has made an impressive average return of roughly 10% a year since its inception in 1995, despite the dot-com crash, the financial crisis and the pandemic.
Swedish social security isn’t perfect and doesn’t satisfy everyone, but it has the obvious advantage that it actually works and is sustainable in the long run. Far from being a cautionary tale, Sweden’s pension system was recently described as the world’s best by the insurance group Allianz, based on a combination of sustainability and adequacy.
The Swedish far left and far right never accepted the reform and have demanded and sometimes won higher payouts. But most of the system remains intact after almost 30 years. No doubt, part of the explanation is that Swedish politicians prepared their citizens with an adult conversation about costs, benefits and what was possible, instead of merely rehearsing slogans and ignoring the inevitable crash.
Mr. Norberg is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and author of “Progress: Ten Reasons to Look Forward to the Future.”
I know, tell me we're not as smart as the Swedes. Is that it?
thanks richard for saying without profanity what i was getting ready to say. privilege? nigga pleeze! we MUST stop allowing taxes to be considered as anything other than strong arm extractions
I’ve never seen a leftist pay more than they absolutely have to. In fact the left are the most greedy, conniving, creatures I’ve ever seen.
Projection. The right wing's favorite food.
"paid by the more wealthy who can easily afford it"
Danny DeVito? Is that you? Other people's money?
The Marxist government has been printing and spending fiat like drunken sailors for more than 35 years. It is nothing to throw a few billion to the Ukriane. Just announced that they are bailing our the Teamsters Pension Fund for 36 Billion ( with a B) dollars. The illegals are getting a few billion. The government payroll with future pension funds is at least another 750 Billion and the beat goes on.
Every 10 years or so we are bombarded with how there are no funds for Social Security and more years after Al Climate Guru Gore assured us that that “lock Box” was secure.
All about kicking the bucket to the next generation of lying politicians who simply raise the debt limit and hope that they all die before they all go to Prison! And, by the way, none every do. We, The People sit by eating their bull shit day by day and are afraid that the powers that be do not look at them and put them in prison.
Enough already. I suppose we haven’t had a bellyful of their lies and corruption yet. Otherwise we would be “storming the Bastille” and hanging them all, every one!
You're drinking too much Fox News Kool-Aid. - Did you see where released evidence showed where ALL the Fox News personalities think their viewers are crazy and stupid for believing their lies?
As a 50 year old, I’ve known my entire adult life that I was paying into a Ponzi Scheme that would not be there for me without reforms. Democrats have made simple reforms impossible because they demagogue the issue every time.
I’ve recently come to realize that the only solution is to reach the endpoint and hope that the stupid Republicans offer to bail it out with debt and sneak in some reforms while shoving the issue down the throat of all the cynical Democrat scum bags.
No thanks. At worst, there would be a 30 percent cut in benefits. But as long as the people's vote still counts, no politician would allow that to happen. The majority of the population are working class, and the majority of the working class believe Social Security is a good thing. Most think it's the best thing the federal government has ever done. Thanks, FDR!
Ponzi schemes are NEVER sustainable. UNFORTUNATELY americans are simply too STUPID to plan for retirement. fuck, most of them can't afford a transmission if theirs takes a crap. stupid should hurt but big gubmint sees to it that it don't
Stupid is thinking Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. Or just plain deceptive. --- It's an INSURANCE program, that workers have faithfully paid into all their lives. If you're rich, then the subject should be completely out of your interest. The small contributions don't affect you in the slightest.
If you're not rich, like most of the working class which are the majority, then you know how much we rely and depend on it. - It's OURS. Keep your bloody hands off it.
It’s an INSURANCE program
That's a goddamned lie, and fuck you for repeating it. Legit insurance companies invest the premiums in profitable businesses to grow the fund so that they can meet their obligations when claims are made.
SS was never anything of the kind, and if any private organization had spent its pension fund on its own fucking IOUs, someone would be doing time for fraud.
-jcr
Absolutely true.
Back at you, parasite. -- It's incredible how angry you MF's get when the working class has something that keeps them out of abject poverty, and you want to get your miserly, creepy hands on it. - What miserable creatures you are.
Your tunnel vision is so thick, it won't let you stretch out of completely capitalist mode to understand the difference is SS doesn't have to make a profit like the greedy insurance companies do.
It's the corrupt congress that has leeched the money out of SS, calling it "borrowing." I doubt I'll live to see it repaid in my lifetime.
Swindling the working class with the SS Ponzi scheme doesn't keep them out of poverty, you lying Marxist maggot.
SS doesn’t have to make a profit
If it made a profit, it could deliver on the promises made. I'd tell you to do the math, but if you could do the math you wouldn't be a Marxist.
-jcr
>>>"If it made a profit, it could deliver on the promises made."
LOL!! - It DOES deliver on its promises. You're the creeps trying to attack that ability. --- And no. This is how Medicare works, also. Since both programs don't make a profit, all the contributions can go towards doctors and medicine.
Last time I checked, every “insurance” I ever purchased was voluntary – not under the threat of jail if I didn’t make the payments. Also, SS should not be reserved solely for those who failed to plan for their retirement. Everyone who pays in is equally entitled to receive benefits, regardless of other pensions or annuities they may have earned during their working careers.
Consequences?
Why face them after being indoctrinated in government run schools?
It's always somebody else's fault. Didn't you learn that?
Like I said, it's an insurance program. Why don't you cancel all your insurance and accept the consequences of your actions? -- There are some thick skulls here.
Like I said, it’s an insurance program.
Wishing doesn't make it so. You're an idiot.
-jcr
And denying it doesn't make it false, you fool. --- All insurance companies are basically a wager. You bet you will die soon, or have an accident, or a fire, and the insurance companies bet you won't. - Since most people don't have the disasters, the insurance companies win most of the time. And even if you've paid your premiums to a life insurance company all your life, when you get over 60, they start upping the premiums so eventually, you cancel because you can't afford them. So when you die at the end, you get nothing. -- What a deal, eh?
SS works the same way, except there's no money taken out to give some rich buffalo chips a big profit. That's one of the reasons why SS will never have any serious problems. - All the shouting of disaster is just vultures trying to horn in and rip off that money and security from the elderly.
SS works the same way,
Stop lying.
-jcr
When you can't respond to points, just toss a ridiculous charge of lying.
If you don't like being called a liar, then stop lying.
-jcr
Geez. This place is becoming as cluelessly right wing and deceptive as Fox News. - Social Security is the most beloved and crucially needed program of the federal government. - Many turns of the economy and a couple of personal setbacks kept me in low earnings most of my life. I barely covered all our expenses and we went without things. There was zero money for investing or saving for most of those years.
THANK GOD, Social Security was taking out what we couldn't really afford, but somehow managed to adjust our lifestyle for, because there was no choice.
I have been retired, living primarily on my Social Security, for 9 years. I'm hardly the only one. Millions of seniors would be living in abject poverty without Social Security.
None of the attacks on SS in this article hold any water. There's a bump created by the Baby Boomers, but that was anticipated and will, of course, diminish with time. A simple raising or removing the contribution fixes it completely and is NOT a "massive tax on the rich." What crybabies!
I'm also grateful my SS contributions weren't in the stock market when it crashed in 2008. The chaos the world is now in means that could happen at any time.
In the wealthiest country on earth, there's no excuse for seniors to end life in miserable poverty. Most major countries wouldn't think of it. It's sick how the U.S. rich are so greedy, they want to add a few bucks to their investments by grinding the elderly into the dirt!
If you want to address the only real controversy about Social Security, talk about how you're going to pay back the trillions of dollars "borrowed" from it.
You repeatedly use the term rich. I get it - you live off SS, didn't save, didn't plan for the future, and expect others to pay. Yet you allegedly sacrificed and others are greedy for not giving more money.
Hope you enjoyed the COLA.
You completely ignored my points and pulled some ignorant SUPPOSITIONS out of your behind. What an evil, tunnel-vision maroon. Must be a Republican.
"Social Security is the most mismanaged program of the federal government”
TFIFY
It's not insurance at all. You've been sold a bill of goods. Insurance pays out less than it takes in. And only in certain circumstances. It's not a guaranteed payment to all policy holders.
It is an annuity. But it is one without the underlying savings and investments. It is an unfunded annuity.
Please learn something about finances before you spout such ignorance.
How foolish. Only PROFIT-MAKING companies need to take in more than they pay out. – You can’t see outside of your greedy bubble.
Call it what you want, but it belongs to the working class. Keep your grubby hands off it.
You're greedy, entitled, and stupid.
People just barely making it on a miserly Social Security check are "greedy?" Thanks for showing what a soulless liar you are. - Again, it's not entitlement, although you ghouls love that word. - It's OUR money we have been paying into all our lives.
Must be a lot of Republicans in here. -- All they have is lies and projection.
That "miserly Social Security check" is lavish by international standards.
Actually, I'm an immigrant. Someone who actually knows what the rest of the world looks like.
Yes, and we kept track of that money in the Social Security Trust Fund. It is running out of money in 2034 because the US government has been handing out far more Social Security benefits than people paid in.
You don't want "your" money, you want other people's money.
You're retired. No Republican is going to touch your Social Security benefits. You're a liar and a fear monger.
What Republicans are trying to do is reform the system so that young Americans won't get screwed over; so that they will at least be able to get out of the system what they paid in. That means a gradual transition from the dysfunctional Social Security system we have to a universal pension system that politicians cannot use to buy votes.
Social Security payments are "lavish?" - What utter nonsense. - The average payment is $1500. Then, "supplemental" health insurance (Part B) premium is deducted. So many people get $1200 a month, or less. If you earned $28,000 a year, that's 51% of income.
The World Economic Forum reports:
"Pensioners in the Netherlands, Turkey and Croatia receive more than 100% of a working wage when they retire. Indeed, Dutch and Turkish pensioners get 101% and 102%, respectively, but Croatians receive a generous 129%. -- India (99%), Portugal (95%), and Italy (93%)
As you can see, most countries do better than the U.S. - Are you ignorant of the facts, or just lying?
If someone has been mis-managing the SS fund, that's not our fault. It must be corrected. No. SS has not been paying out substantially more than it has been taking in. I don't know how they account for SSI for disabilities, but that's a different matter. The core agreement with workers has always worked fine, and is having a bump because of Covid and the Baby Boom. The Boom was anticipated. These are minor adjustments with easy fixes.
No. YOU are trying to screw over young Americans. The world is becoming increasingly chaotic as we enter deeper into the climate Apocalypse. - The stock market will not be a wise place for anyone who needs a SECURE income in retirement.
That's because they don't run their system like US Social Security. And it's because they have lower wages and pay much higher taxes and on top of that pension contributions.
The Dutch, for example, pay 18% of salary on top of taxes and healthcare and retire at age 67. Furthermore, their pension system is run by private companies, separate from the government, and actually invest in global markets. And they are adjusting benefits downwards to make ends meet.
For all that, a single pensioner entitled to a full state pension receives $1340 (most receive less), and that is subject to a lot more taxes than in the US. If they worked less than the maximum, they get less. US maximum benefits are around $3600, subject to much lower taxes.
I’m all for a Dutch system; that’s what “Social Security reform” means.
It is greedy, entitled Americans like you who oppose that, not me.
Indeed, an increase in social security tax is a tax on the middle class.
And if you got your head out of your ass you'd recognize that no politician is going to let people like you starve. Any reform to social security will keep payments to current retirees going.
Finally, unlike Europe, the American middle class isn't paying for the government services it receives. That's why the US is going bankrupt: because of greedy, entitled, ignorant prior like you.
Another big pile of buffalo chips. - We don't NEED to rely on the lying, corrupt politicians to take care of us. We can get by on OUR money that we faithfully paid into all our lives.
The incredible ignorance and elitism is so sickening. -- We PAY dearly for everything, more than anyone else. -- While millionaires have been turning into billionaires, and worker productivity has been steadily increasing, REAL wages haven't increase in FIFTY years. -- We have been subsidizing your wealth, against our will, of course.
That money went into the Social Security Trust Fund. "Lying, corrupt politicians" have been spending that down too fast. That's why it's running out of money in 2034. The money you paid in is gone.
What you want now is to force upper middle class earners to pay more into the system, money they will never get back.
But even that won't fix Social Security.
I'm an immigrant with a 401(k); I'm not uber-wealthy. You haven't been subsidizing a dime of my retirement savings.
Given that you are a retiree who lives off Social Security, you have been subsidized by government debt and high income earners. The US government has accrued a debt of over two million dollars for you. And that bill is coming due. No amount of taxing your fellow Americans is going to fix it.
No. Politicians have not been spending the SS fund. They have been BORROWING from it. Big difference. There will always be payback, or there will be revolution.
You are full of lies. – Social Security works. But it is under heavy attack by thieves like you who want to force people into their stock investment programs AND charge them transaction fees. — No thanks. – Will never happen.
They have been borrowing from the fund in the sense that it is kept in non-negotiable T-bills. That money will indeed be paid back from taxes.
But that fund runs out in 2034. That's because politicians also have been spending the fund down. At that point, every single dollar you ever paid into the fund is gone.
Actually, the problem is that you are greedy, entitled, and willfully ignorant.
Two things: 1) We are no longer the wealthiest country in the world and haven’t been for some time. On the contrary, we are (by far) the largest debtor country in the world, to the tune of $32 Trillion, which only considers federal government debt. Calling us the wealthiest country is like calling a neighbor who lives a lavish lifestyle “wealthy”, although they are actually in hock up to their eyeballs and have to continually borrow even more to meet the minimum payments. Like our country, they are really in an out-of-control debt spiral. 2) Money has not been “borrowed” from SS - excess contributions have been invested in interest-bearing government bonds, which is what any responsible overseer of these funds would do.
that he is referred to by "journalists" is amusing. i do not consider the times as journalism...not for a long damn time.
I had just resubscribed to Reason, and this article made me immediately look for a place to cancel my subscription. Krugman is quite open about having made mistakes, but on key issues like the concept of trickle down economics, he was right on target. My thought is that we have a fundamental disagreement here — Krugman and a lot of people believe in the concept of the common good. People like Hamilton and Jefferson, Madison and John Quincy Adams, Abraham Lincoln and Ulysses S. Grant. If you deny that maintenance of the common good is a key duty of government, then doing away with Social Security is right up your alley. Why not eliminate all safeguards, not just those on safeguards against old age poverty, but on health, banking, investments and so on. Hell, subsidize Crypto instead; that’ll be a winner with people who dislike the common good.
There is a very quick fix for Social Security and Medicare. It might take a lot of education to make it popular, but it’s simple. Eliminate the limit on income from which Social Security can be collected. When I was a kid, I know that by June my dad was no longer paying Social Security — it was like getting a raise. It was of course a different time and different economic structure, and we were in the 75th percentile for family income. The dividing line today is a lot higher; last I bothered to check, it was about $85K annually. Make it $400K, and as the wealth imbalance grows, automatically increase the maximum income and continue the collection of SSI.
Your concept of the common good is not the same as the founding fathers you cite.
If SS was a safeguard against old age poverty alone, as it was originally drafted, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
You're not a Libertarians. You're a Socialist. Plain and simple.
Gee. Excuse the disabled for being disabled. I guess we should just stick them on an ice flow and let it float out to sea..... How sick.
Oh I know; How about giving them all a legal pass to commit armed-robbery.. /s As-if your 'disabled' BS is an excuse to plummet the entire nation into communism. If the family won't take care of them, and the charity (not armed-robbery) of others won't take care of them there is always all the needed welfare one needs inside the prison system.
But YOU know DARN WELL; That will not be the norm. You just use BS cherry-picked far-fetched example to support your selfish armed-theft governing system.
What a degenerate fool - equating people with disabilities with armed robbers. - Here's hoping you get a bad one real soon.
What? You think politicians create human resources???
Think there's a magical money tree off in the fairy fantasy land of D.C.???
You think Taxes are just voluntary charity? Instead of being Gun-Enforced like taking the labor of slaves?
smh - The majority of Social Security recipients are retirees, who have paid into the system all their working lives, and are just getting out what they have put into it.
Most people think it was a good thing to add people with severe disabilities to the program. If you are one of the few who don't like that, then organize to get it changed. But that's a different subject than the bulk of the program that just returns worker contributions in the most secure way for their secure future.
Social'ism isn't Just or Fair. It's whole point is to dismiss Justice for criminal activity and throw away the concepts of earning/merit (i.e. Justice).
I understand you "feeling cheated" but your "democracy" cheated you when voters decided they'd cancel the US Constitution for an FDR "New Deal". Continuing to pretend that Gov-Gangster-Guns makes human resources will only provide an ends of genocide because at the end of the day... Guns don't make Sh*t. Socialism has to go if this nation is going to survive.
>>>"Social’ism isn’t Just or Fair. It’s whole point is to dismiss Justice for criminal activity and throw away the concepts of earning/merit"
LOL! - You'e raving again. You guys pull some really strange stuff from your behinds.
Social Security is the greatest program ever created by the U.S. Millions have used it to save money all the lives and have a guaranteed income in retirement.
Sorry that somehow disturbs you. - If you're doing so well as you claim with your investments, then SS shouldn't even be on your mind. Leave our system alone for those of us who worked all our lives contributing to it.
“Leave our system alone for those of us who worked all our lives contributing to it.” — No problem; PRIVATIZE it (dis-“arm” it)….
Back to the question you entirely dodged/ignored. NOTHING… NOTHING stops Democrats from implementing every socialist policy they want by business subscription/membership contract. WHY must they always use Gov-GUNS?
You know the answer and that’s why you won’t answer it… You don’t want a “fair” or “just” system.. You want the ability to STEAL from others with GUNS.
And it just wasn't good enough to keep this massive armed-theft in your own county/city or even State... Oh no.... Democrats want to STEAL the entire USA. Not just Socialists but **NATIONAL** Socialists.
That's a fiction. In reality, government took the money and wasted it. It's gone.
But their future isn't secure, and you can't make it secure through taxation.
Nope. - It's not gone. It's borrowed. And the people will make sure that debt is paid in full.
Social Security HAS made retirement secure for millions and will continue to do so, despite the efforts of the right to destroy it. You'll never succeed. - Go do something constructive.
No, it's not being paid, it is simply converted into general debt.
But even that shell game is coming to an end in 2034. In 2034, even the hypothetical "trust fund" will be out of money. At that point, all the money people have ever paid into Social Security will be gone, and all Social Security payments will come purely from current taxpayers.
Look at the Lefty Dictator go... No more manipulation, deception and propaganda .... Just DEMAND it works and is the best thing ever... A perfect resemblance of the very Nazi Platform of DEMANDS.
"will make sure that debt is paid in full"
Paraphrased: [WE] bought slaves and [WE] want our slaves!
Read through most of these comments, nobody picked up on the 800 lb gorilla that will save SS over the next 10 years: mass immigration. Once we have the illegals becoming legit tax paying, albeit low income SS payers, we’ve boosted the denominators paying into the system that at the moment doesn’t have a claim against future SS cash flow. Yes all of this logic is ugly, but clearly our pols from both sides don’t care about mass unskilled migrants streaming into the US. As time goes on, we will have those employees becoming skilled enough to get jobs to pay in, which will extend SSs expire date. And yes,I also don’t wish to see Krigman in reason, regardless of his story, he’s a hack, let someone else pay him.
Exactly. So many predators are working very hard to ignore the simple fix. They shout "disaster" to try to make it collapse or give cover to their attempts to steal it.
The money was stolen over many decades. It's already gone. You are now talking about stealing even more money that we know for certain can never be repaid.
And you are so eager to defend theft in order to protect your own social security. Don't worry: nobody is going to touch your social security. Any reform will gradually phase out social security and replace it with another system. Even nasty, greedy, ignorant seniors like you will continue getting your monthly checks.
What reform is trying to accomplish is to prevent kids from getting screwed over.
Repeating a lie wont' make it true. - The SS funds were borrowed and recipients are in no danger, except from the right wing attackers like you.
LOL... I can tell by your first comment that UR one of those Tax-Cuts is THEFT kind of people. The only bank-robbers I know that are so full of themselves they claim that missed $100 bill under the drawer was a "attempt to STEAL from them".
"give cover to their attempts to steal it" -- when all along they are just dis-arming it (No more Gov-GUN theft).
Social Security contributions were put into a trust fund, and the US government is indeed "repaying" that (in the sense of borrowing money elsewhere to shift it over).
But even that trust fund runs out of money by 2034. At that point, everything ever paid into Social Security is gone. It's gone because the US government is paying out more than people paid in.
Yes, and you keep repeating lies about Social Security over and over again.
That gives Social Security a few more years, and it will have bad consequences for the US economy.
Then what?
It will have zero consequence on the economy. We're talking about a very small adjustment to people with very large incomes that will never notice it. They need to pay a more fair share anyway. -- Did you know the top tax brackets during Eisenhower's administration was 90 percent? And the economy was booming. - We need to start moving back toward that.
You are talking about a 12% tax raise on upper middle class Americans. Yes, that will have a significant impact on the economy.
Yes, and almost nobody paid that rate.
In fact, people like you need to pay your fair share. The US has a ridiculously distorted tax system, in which more than half of the population pays essentially nothing to keep the federal government running.
If we want a European-style social welfare state in the US, then we need to have a European-style tax system, and that means massive tax increases on the working and middle class. The current system isn't just unfair, it is unsustainable.
The income limit which is now subject to SS taxes is now approximately $160,000. In 2019, the limit was about $132,000. Increases in the limit are based on the average wage increases for urban workers.
More fear mongering by shallow thinkers.
Reagan raised the payroll tax and delayed full retirement - the world did not end.
If libtards can get behind dementia-Man's bloated fairytale spending, they can certainly fund Social Security and Medicare.
And if you really want to deal with the cost of entitlements, you need to do your homework - not just toss around mindless labels. For example, medical costs have to be reigned in as they are grossly out of line with other goods and services. It's not the users but the providers that need a correction.
Medical costa may be grossly out of line with other goods and services, but there is a reason. The entirety of what insurance has become. SS and otherwise. And, we still go around claiming that life is priceless. Combined with society having not come to grips with our ability to extend the length of life, but not the quality of life.
Right. The U.S. is the ONLY major country on the planet that does not have universal health care. - We are trapped in this corrupt, dysfunctional health scheme, when it has been shown that universal health care COSTS LESS, COVERS EVERYONE and has BETTER HEALTH OUTCOMES.
We've got to get out of this place!
The U.S. is the ONLY major country on the planet that does not have universal health care.
No country on the planet has "universal health care". The very name is a cynical lie. Up in Canada, instead of providing health care to anyone with an expensive condition, they offer to KILL THEM.
Shove your lies back up your Marxist ass, you pig-ignorant lefturd child.
-jcr
Spare us your Quack-anon fairy tales. -- I have friends in Canada and Europe. They are happy with their health care system and shake their head in amazement and pity for us being stuck in this big, corrupt, con game that has the priority of denying care and medicine as much as possible.
The French Revolution is coming for you greed heads.
Stop complaining and go join your “friends”. Surely if you really believed your BS you'd see it's far easier to move your *ss than conquer a nation.
smh - If you think the U.S. can somehow hang onto this corrupt, dysfunctional mess, you're fooling yourself. Especially not when every other country but us has escaped it. - The Progressive movement has been growing massively since Senator Sanders launched it in 2015. Medicare for All is our top priority and we will achieve it.
Your GOAL exactly as stated..........................
DESTROY the USA and implement a Nazi-Empire in it's place.
Molon Labe, motherfucker.
-jcr
Don't worry. This corrupt, dysfunctional health scam is a sinking ship. Medicare for All will improve life for everyone, even you clueless right wingers.
By the Force of Nazi-GUNS!!!!!!!!
Carry on Hitler.
Your views don't align with the French Revolution; the French Revolution was anti-monarchy, not anti-capitalist. It didn't concern itself with old age pensions.
Your views align with those of the NSDAP. You are the kind of person who wants gas chambers, not guillotines, John Thomas.
Is that bizarre thinking Republican or Libertarian? -- Either way, you're lost in space. -- Every year, the World Happiness Report puts out the highly regarded "List of the Top Ten Happiest Countries in the World." In most years, the list is topped by largely socialist Norway and Finland. - The U.S. doesn't even make the list.
Average people in those countries pay about half their income in taxes. If the US adopted such a system, it would indeed finance our healthcare, social security, and eliminate our budget deficits.
I'm all for it: let's raise US taxes to European levels.
It's greedy little fascists like you who oppose such a tax system. It's greedy little fascists like you who think you can live a comfortable lifestyle through expropriation.
Don’t let the door hit you on the *ss on your way out…
Treasonous F’Er.
It really is amazing how many REPEATING FAILURES you socialists can meet with UN-feathered bigoted aggression.
[WE] need more Gov-Guns... It's just not right.
[WE] need more Gov-Guns... It's just not right.
[WE] need more Gov-Guns... It's just not right.
Exactly what point if any does LEARNING ever set in?
You are incomprehensible. - Take your meds.
Can't defeat the logic??? .... Hey there's always personal attacks.. /s
No, seriously. -- Can you please rephrase that comment in a normal way? It doesn't make any sense the way it is. -- Thanks.
Before SS and Medicare doctors would show up at your door for the price of a pizza. The more ‘government’ monopolizes it the worse it gets (at what point is that learned)? Need a more ‘today’ example; take the relatively less-gov (socialized) industry of dentistry $200 surgery, $80 regular attention….
Every industry the Gov-Gangster-Guns try to steal from just makes it more UN-affordable and UN-attainable (i.e. less “fair/just”). Because (the answer to all of this is so simple)……. Guns don’t make sh*t.
Thanks for the effort, but it still is confused fantasy. -- In no way is SS or Medicare responsible for the crazy health care costs. Medicare actually helps keep costs down, of course.
And don't mention dentistry to me. -- The insane idea that dental care is not an integral part of health and is somehow not covered by insurance equally as other health problems is just another example of how our current system is dysfunctional and must go the way of the dodo bird.
Many people have to let their teeth rot because of that corruption.
LMAO…. “Medicare actually helps keep costs down, of course.”
Your not even trying to make sense anymore; you’re just parroting BS.
Tell us again how Government makes Healthcare, Housing and Education the MOST AFFORDABLE in the USA..... Those things haven't got so bloody cheap.... I know because Bernie Sanders told me so.... /s
Here’s the BIG difference…
You’d rather allow people to Hold-Up their dentist with GUNS…
You don’t care about ensuring Justice or the Liberty of your dentist.
You’re 100% selfish and criminal.
And YOUR kind is exactly why your S.S. is gone. You’re self-entitled at the cost of others and criminal about it (GUNS) to boot. Yet when your shoe falls on the flip side here you complaining about Justice (but mer, uh; I paid into it)... 100% *entitled* 0% responsible.
Or put more nicely...
So......... Why are you still in the USA?
Because this is our country, jack. --- Don't look now, but the majority of Americans are in the working class. - You don't like it. YOU can leave.
And that's YOUR root problem right there... The USA ******IS NOT********* a Democracy....
Article IV; Section 4
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
It is a ***** CONSTITUTIONAL ******* Union of Republican States.
You don't get to use your miss-guided fantasy beliefs to conquer this nation and implement a [Na]tional So[zi]alist Empire in its place.
From Webster's Dictionary:
"Republic - a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law"
"Democracy - a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections"
So, the difference is....?
A Supreme Law ( the founders-people’s law over their government ) with (3) branches of checks and balances that SWEAR (it is their job) to ensure the Supreme Law is upheld.
The “democratic” violation of that is an act of treason.
Of if you'd like the more subtle obvious explanation. [WE] mob RULES! (i.e. Democracy) doesn't ensure Individual Liberty or Justice for anyone but instead is Gangland politics.
lol - Nothing you said addressed the fact that the dictionary definitions of republic and democracy are virtually identical.
All that other bizarre stuff exists only in your warped head.
Your ignorance of the Constitution + Webster isn't what the USA is either. And your obsession with pretending confused is just excuses to conquer and consume the USA.
No, they are not.
No, it is not. America is founded on limited self government, not dictatorship of the majority.
And that is exactly what happens when people like you get your way: people and money leave the country.
You can see the eventual outcome in the USSR, Nazi Germany, Venezuela, Cuba, etc.
Easy to say, "no they are not" without backing it up.
Dictatorship of the majority? lol Someone's got to direct the government. You think it should be some minority? - Now THAT'S dictatorship.
I was just responding in kind with everyone here telling me to leave the country. - You guys can dish it out but can't take it. One of the many reasons you will always remain on the fringe.
You know about Google?
No, I think that government should be limited, meaning that neither majorities nor minorities should be able to enslave people, or take their stuff, or tell them how to live.
They are telling you that because you are a greedy, entitled ignoramus. If you actually lived somewhere else, you might actually recognize that.
"Someone’s got to direct the government."
No; It's something (Supreme Law) --- The US Constitution.
You're just flinging BS at this point.
In these discussions, "entitlements" just means savings accounts.
Socialism has to reigned in; Not slapping the slave-hand that provides.
Because mindless is pretending Gov-Gangster-Guns make human resources.
It's better to stay quiet and let people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it.
More personal attacks from a Nazi (National Socialist) fanboy...
Some things never change.
No personal attacks. Just stating general truths. - Especially as they apply here. Google it. I didn't make it up.
Big fan of google censorship? Is that what I gathered from that? 🙂
If you did, your gathering mechanism has completely malfunctioned.
It's better to stay quiet and let people think that you are just a progressive than open your mouth and prove that you are a full-on fascist, John Thomas.
Don't quit your day job. That old saw you have a fetish with will never fly.
I'm calling it as it is. As an immigrant whose parents experienced fascism and who experienced socialism myself, I know what I'm speaking of. Sorry if that makes you feel uncomfortable.
And I will "quit my day job" in a few years, and probably retire elsewhere.
The author misses the point about SS and MC. Krugman is obviously wrong. The author however is wrong. SS/MC are not running out of money because neither program has any assets. Never has, never will. Rather SS/MC face a law imposed by Congress to suspend funding SS/MC. Congress can and will act to keep funding. The funding deadlines are political, not economic. Despite having dedicated payroll taxes, SS/MC are both entirely unfunded. Payroll taxes flow to the general budget. Excess payroll taxes are spent on other parts of the budget. Deficits in payroll taxes are covered by borrowing. The trust fund is just an accounting gimmick that Congress created so that SS/MC are not part of annual budget appropriations.
SS has been cash flow negative for more almost 15 years. SS payroll taxes are now far less than benefits. SS/MC are becoming a growing part of government deficits. Increasing SS taxes will not help. Tax increases and means testing of benefits will make SS a welfare program. Voters will rebel about any substantial means testing. Democrats imposed a backdoor means testing in 1993 by increasing income taxes on SS benefits. Since the threshold was not indexed to inflation, most seniors must now pay income taxes on benefits.
In 2005, Bush proposed partial privatization, a sensible idea. The idea was immediately attacked. The argument should have been about a partially funded system (with a welfare aspect) versus an unfunded system relying on Massive Monetary Theory (almost unlimited government spending). The left demonized partial privatization as risky. Just the opposite is true. A completely unfunded system relies on the ability of government to spend almost without limits. Now we have seen the effects of excess government spending with consumption exceeding production, less incentive to produce, and capital flight with confiscatory taxation.
What a long-winded way of saying all the money we have paid into SS all our lives means nothing. Wrong. - It's a PROMISE, just like the currency is a promise. If you think you got some backlash from trying to leech money out of our SS, just wait until you actually do and put our backs against the wall. - Revolutions don't generally turn out well for plutocracies.
The supreme court already ruled it was just a tax. The mistake was FDR [D] back in the 30s making “New Deals” illegally. Illegal deals that pretends Gov-Ganster-Guns make human resources when in reality it was just making armed-theft (crime) preformed by the biggest armed-gang in the USA.
What to do when the 'government' starts working for the criminals instead of to ensure Individual Liberty and Justice for all.
You can call it a tax. You can call it Ringo Starr. It's Social Security and the people know what it is. It's a promise to take our monthly contributions and return them to us when we are old and retired. Pure and simple. Get away from our business, boy.
lol… Your “armed” business of theft? You've been duped on multiple fronts. But on subject at hand 'Social'ist Security; Something about a party in Germany called the National Socialist Workers Party that was sure to bring everyone the utopian society.
Where does theft fit in with OUR agreed upon contributions in full faith being returned to us in our old age does "theft" fit in? -- Only in the warped minds of the creatures that mostly inhabit this cavern. -- Again, The NSWP was socialist in name only. Just like all the countries that call themselves communist are simply lying dictators.
The very definition of the USA didn’t give the ‘feds’ authority to grant “full faith being returned to you”. You were robbed (notice you didn’t have a choice) by a treasonous criminal who spend all your payments (your favorite kind).
It amazes me how you can keep supporting criminals while you complain about the exact criminals you’re supporting.
But what other kind of non-sense would one expect from someone who pretends a nationally recognized party called 'socialists' weren't *really* socialists? Who also continues to repeat the "It's work this time" toe-line about something that has a perfect failure rate.
And at the end of all this deception, BS, manipulation, flat-out ignorance to things (US Constitution) one thing is of the MOST important to you; the ability to use Gov-GUNS and STEAL from others what YOU don't want to *EARN*.
Discussion summary (this is exactly why Democrats are treasonous)
1) U constantly pretend the US Constitution doesn't exist.
2) U don't care about Individual Liberty or Justice for all.
3) U believe in [WE] mob RULES! (i.e. gangland politics).
4) U deflect that [WE] mob RULES *is* a majority dictation (i.e. bullying).
5) U compulsively sell that the USA sucks and foreign countries are awesome. Yet; refuse to re-locate.
Summary; The Conquer and Consume Mentality 101.
They have a form of treasuries, just like many retirement accounts. You can argue that that itself is a scam, but that's not even at the heart of the problem because they are being honored.
The problem is that even those run out in 2034.
At that point, the program becomes literally and undeniably just an intergenerational transfer program.
Save our *failing* 'Social'ist Security in the USA..... /s
Never, ever, ever allow the US Constitution to be the Supreme Law of this land. /s
Americans should take over the government and remove all the democrats. Then we can cover everything using a reperations orogram wherein we take what we need off of the leftists. For all the damage they’ve done to this country, and it’s true citizens.
This should be no problem for them. They’ve been screaming about paying reperations for decades.
"Americans should take over the government and remove all the democrats."
Another Civil War?
I’m still hoping the population will just abandoned (stop voting) for the Nazi-Empire leaders.
Classic Republican projection of the bad behavior you are most guilty of. -- The world looks at us and this insanity in disbelief. The rich act like they are victims of the poor so they can continue squeezing them to death. -- You are the disease we need to cure this country of.
Or the more straightforward name RINO ( Republican In-Name Only ) because they vote JUST like the Democrats. The same Big-Government (GUN) "Plans" to ?save? the citizens. As-if a mob of guns is going to ?save? anything used in an aggressive ("?progressive?") fashion against it's own citizens.
The founding of this nation iterates these factors perfectly. Yet human greed, selfishness and interest in MORE armed-theft keeps history repeating over and over and over again.
Okay. That's pretty wild. But, no. I imagine things will pretty much keep going the way they have been. The corporations are running things and they like the status quo.
There's a growing Progressive movement though, thanks to Bernie Sanders. That's showing some promise for the human race.
Awe Hitler himself; The leader of the National Socialist Workers Party. You really need to EXIT the USA instead of trying to conquer it with treasonous politicians. Part of the party that likes to "arm" the ... omg! the weather changes... industries with Gov-Gangster-Guns.
For someone who pretends they don't like corporations ( the hand that feeds them - excluding the weather changes fiat industries ) U sure picked a leader that'll arm them to core. Or perhaps you think destroying them so Gov-Ganster-Guns can make ?free? sh*t is going to save you. Either way; you've lost any common-sense what-so-ever.
The right wing just can't give up their dishonest straw man arguments. I never said I picked Biden and didn't. He's as right wing as any traditional Republican. The only politicians who are honest and actually represent the working class, i.e. the majority, are the true Progressives, like Senator Bernie Sanders and Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
Those who promise to STEAL the most for me!!!!! /s
Pure criminal selfishness is all your crowd consists of.
Democrats and their ..... bloody-endless...... "Big" plans for the biggest "armed" entity to carry out the bigger and bigger bank-robbery heist on it's citizens earnings.....
Yes; that is EXACTLY what they do. The "Big" plan criminal gang. But it's A-Okay cause the [WE] gang has a politician (crooked officer) in our pocket who'll join our criminal gang.
The party of slavery.... Sell your Individual Souls to the [WE] foundation; because 'you' don't own 'you', [WE] own YOU......
My turn for a question…. If you really believe Bernie Sanders and his socialism is sustainable WHY can’t Democrats start a NON-Gov-Gangster-Guns Insurance/Socialist subscription outfit/business (as you like to call it)?????? There is NOTHING………. NOTHING at all that keeps Democrats from starting a “business” of every socialist-“Plan” they want via contract membership… WHY the Gov-GUNS?
You aren't paying attention. Most Democratic politicians are CORPORATE Democrats, who are as dishonest as Republicans and work for their corporate donors instead of the people, just like Republicans.
Perhaps you should ask, What’s up with all the “crony socialism” in the first place. Is there Constitutional authorization for the Government to run corporations? What did you think was going to happen by putting the same “armed” entity in charge of ensuring Individual Liberty and Justice for all also in charge of running corporations??? Did you honestly think Government-Funded corporations was going to ensure Justice on itself?
And P.S. Nice show of ignorance to the question at hand.
Oh, you're a Bernie Bro. That places you at least two standard deviations below the average Marxist idiot.
-jcr
When you can't respond to points, toss a lame insult. - Pathetic.
Let's see:
- free higher education
- government-supported healthcare for all
- government-guaranteed pensions for all
- job guarantees, fair wages, and dignified work
- racial equity
That's what Sanders runs on. You know who else ran on that? The NSDAP. Pick up a history book to see how that turned out.
People like you, John Thomas, are the kind of people who voted for the NSDAP.
More silliness. The NSDAP was a far-right political party in Germany, so they were "socialist" in name only, just like countries that call themselves communist are only using the name to fig leaf their dictatorships.
Far-right of Communists??? Yeah; that's right - it was a battle between Socialists and Communists; Germany didn't have a prayer. You are the [Na]tional So[zi]list fan and when that doesn't pan out you'll move on to Full-Fledged Communism and when that doesn't pan out you'll move on to genocide (zero-sum resources)...
Your kind has a full History record if you'd ever care to learn from it.
Course you still haven't explained how your Gov-Gangster-Guns actually makes anything at all yet.
What a coincidence: you're far right too, and you're using "socialism" to fig leaf your totalitarianism, envy, and greed as well.
There is a far bigger problem for those born after 1960 it is a garbage deal. If people were free to choose vs alternative savings and investments no one would because its promised rate for those that live to the average age is 2.1% roughly the same as the long term inflation rate for a real rate of return of ZERO. Add in the restriction of when you can retire no inheritance rights to your children if you die. A loser for any family with heart disease, cancer or other family health issues.
When the system can payout only 80% of projected payments, in 2033 or so, a very large percentage of recipients (cohorts to be more precise) will be in the position you mention - a zero rate of return on a lifetime of payments.
Then there will be no hiding the Ponzi scheme and real reform may be possible.
Try convincing anyone of that in the next great stock market crash. - Most were very happy they were in Social Security when that happened. It can happen any time and wipe out people's stock investments. - Social Security is the rock people need in their old age.
People don't need Gov-GUNS to find a rock to stand on.....
Criminals do. Or slavery owners do.
The fatal flaw of all such government Ponzi schemes worldwide (including state and local governments) is that politicians today can win office by providing programs with immediate benefits that won’t have to be paid for until many years in the future.
All such programs are “defined benefit” schemes which have no relationship to the money collected. The only such retirement benefit plans that work are “defined contribution” options — such as that offered by 401K, IRA and other plans that promise nothing specific in return.
Today any politician seriously advocating SS reform will be outflanked by an opponent who blithely promises to continue high benefits coupled with a low tax. The MSM still buys into that — castigating anyone who calls for a reality check. Most voters haven’t a clue about such finances. And we all want something for nothing.
We are doomed.
Today, any politician will be outflanked by an opponent who blithely promises to rob the top 20% blind in order to give unearned handouts to the remaining 80%. A country can't survive that way in the long term.
That is not a problem specific to Social Security, it's a problem with Americans, American culture, and the radical left wing indoctrination Americans receive in their schools and universities.
Repeal the laughingly named "Tax Cuts and Jobs Act" that blew a trillion dollar a year hole in the budget during so-called good times. List the cap on earnings. Done.
When you say "Lift the cap on earnings," you really mean "Soak the rich. Make them pay for my benefits."
Upper income people already pay thousands into SS annually that does not increase their SS pension at all. The tax on earnings above about $126,000 does not count towards one's SS pension.
Look into the "bend" SS benefit brackets and the cap on benefits for an explanation.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/retirement/social-security-benefits
Your solution is hardly libertarian, but a common refrain from people wanting something for nothing. And BTW, it won't be enough to cover the revenue shortfall.
You repeat the common misconception (a.k.a. left-wing propaganda) that the "Trump" 2017 tax reform -- the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act -- "blew a trillion dollar a year hole in the budget . . ."
No, it didn't. Quite the contrary.
Federal tax revenues:
2017 -- $3.32 trillion. That's the year the tax reform took effect.
2021 -- $4.05 trillion.
Revenues went up
Revenues did NOT go up as much as predicted.
LESS revenue than project by
Mulvaney and OMB in Feb 2017
before the tax cut.
Mulvaney was tЯump Admim
Director of White House OMB
Office of Management and Budget
Feb 2017 thru March 2020
THAT'S your proof? A TEN-YEAR government income projection is a year later PROJECTED to be $1.8 trillion short OVER the ten years? You're using a 2018 ten-year PROJECTION to say that there's a $1.8 trillion shortfall?? Oh my!
When was a ten-year government projection EVER right? Or even close?
Did any government projections predict a recession? Does government EVER predict a recession?
Did anyone foresee the economic effects of the COVID locking down of the economy? Is the loss of such revenue Trump's tax reform's fault?
BTW, government uses "static analysis." They project lost revenue simply by using the tax tables. They don't consider the positive effects of people having more money to invest and spend. But somehow I suspect you already knew that.
You can't fix Social Security by raising taxes because revenues won't increase substantially. All you'll accomplish is to slow economic activity and make it harder for people to save for retirement.
Social Security needs to be replaced by a mandatory retirement plan that politicians cannot use as a piggy bank for their pork spending.
The prison system will offer a retirement plan for those who 'really' need one (no family) or State's can try to maintain a 'welfare' system. I think that 'mandatory' part is how this all started.
Just gotta love how my STOLEN earnings gets treated like a pot of someone else's gold at the end of the rainbow. Good grief; can you vultures at least pretend it's mine until the end of the year when you ROB it all?
Not a fan
Scam artist claims Ponzi scheme isn't a scam.
Shocking.
Silly
By definition:
A Ponzi Scheme .... is illegal.
We need to bring back the boom times of the 1950's. What was the difference? -- Oh, yeah. The highest income tax brackets paid at 90 percent.
Federal tax revenue as percentage of GDP was about the same in 1950 as it is today. Those "90% income tax rates" were a fiction that almost nobody paid.
The 1950's were "booming" only in the sense that the war had made people poor and they were catching up. Another factor that helped the US post-WWII was that there was no competition from abroad, since most of the rest of the world was in rubble.
Silly excuses, just because I assumed people here know about how marginal tax rates work. From Politifact:
>>>"In 1952 and 1953 when the top income tax rate was 92 percent for income over $300,000, a person would have to make more than $300,000 to actually end up paying an average of 90 percent of their income. According to Williams, someone would have to make $2,328,400, and therefore pay $2,095,560, to get to that 90 percent threshold."
"People with income of less than $2.3 million — remember we're talking about 1952 and 1953 — would have paid, on average, something less than 90 percent."
Of course, the wealthiest people earned more than that, even back then.
>>>"The top marginal tax rates paid by the richest Americans were far higher in the 1950s than they are now. In 2009, the top marginal rate was 35 percent on income above $372,958."
Social Security is not sustainable
based on current funding.
Simple solution:
Tax all stock trades in the US.
I have a better idea: raise income taxes to European levels and institute European-style sales taxes.
If Americans want European-style social welfare systems, they need to pay for it in taxes.
Simple solution: STEAL MORE!!!! /s
And when that runs out STEAL MORE and when that runs out STEAL MORE and when that runs out STEAL MORE…
Enter the final days….
1) “I don’t get it… Why is it so hard to make a living in the USA? I’m so sick of it, I’m going to join the #1 ‘armed-theft’ gang and STEAL for a living too!”
2) Then comes the no-body wants to create/make human resources because it’s pointless (no reward). It all gets STOLEN anyways.
3) Enter the zero-sum human resources game… (there’s only X-amount of stuff left).
4) Then enter genocide; everyone kill each other to see who gets it.
STEALING is not sustainable. GUNS don’t make sh*T.
And if you think the scenario is years away or impossible. Think again. Every Socialist (“armed-theft” regime) Empire in it’s final days started with partisan-party war which eventually launched either a race/religious war of BLAME (sound familiar???) for socialism’s failures… The writing is already on the wall.
The self-destructive ideology that Gov-GUNS can make sh*t.
Nobody has ever been as wrong about economics other than keynes as krugman. Throw in Jim Cramer.
Krugman is wrong on just about everything which makes him equal to Algore. Both have the brains of a cocker spaniel.
Krugman is pure ,100% keynesian. Full of b.s.and at the same time filled with self importance which really doesn't exist.
Why people continue to listen or pay any attention to this asshat is beyond me. He is the John Fetterman of economics.
rein in the cost of drugs.
Go to a single payer system and get rid of all the layers of bureaucracy.
Increase indeed a little the taxes.
Don't forget that right now the health system in America is both more expensive and less effective than any other major western country.
And yes , that's called socialized medicine and it works just fine.
"socialized medicine and it works just fine".
Willful ignorance on display; Just stamp a HUGE fat "never-mind" to the last century of consistently socializing the healthcare industry.
"Oh no; that's not the problem..... meh uh dur; that's the solution...."
Idiocy at it's finest.
It's fun to watch right wingers pull "information" from their behinds. - Every major analysis of Medicare for All, including that of the conservative Koch Brothers, confirmed it will save $2 trillion over the next 10 years, over our current, corrupt, dysfunctional health scheme.
EVERY other major country on earth has universal health care. Because it costs less, covers everyone and has better health outcomes. - People from other countries are aghast when they learn how our health insurance con game robs the people and they would never accept such a disgraceful exploitation.
Paul Krugman is a liberal political sycophant and an economic idiot.
"Paul Krugman is an American economist who is the Distinguished Professor of Economics at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York and a columnist for The New York Times."
My God, he writes for the NY Times Eric!
anyone who wanted tighter mortgage lending during the housing bubble was a herbert hoover liquidationist ... according to krughole
Don't worry. Be happy!