Masks Make 'Little or No Difference' on COVID-19, Flu Rates: New Study
The Cochrane Library's review of masking trials should sound the death knell for mask mandates everywhere.

The wearing of masks to prevent the spread of COVID-19 and other respiratory illnesses had almost no effect at the societal level, according to a rigorous new review of the available research.
"Interestingly, 12 trials in the review, ten in the community and two among healthcare workers, found that wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to influenza-like or COVID-19-like illness transmission," writes Tom Jefferson, a British epidemiologist and co-author of the Cochrane Library's new report on masking trials. "Equally, the review found that masks had no effect on laboratory-confirmed influenza or SARS-CoV-2 outcomes. Five other trials showed no difference between one type of mask over another."
That finding is significant, given how comprehensive Cochrane's review was. The randomized control trials had hundreds of thousands of participants, and made useful comparisons: people who received masks—and, according to self-reporting, actually wore them—versus people who did not. Other studies that have tried to uncover the efficacy of mask requirements have tended to compare one municipality with another, without taking into account relevant differences between the groups. This was true of an infamous study of masking in Arizona schools conducted at the county level; the findings were cited by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) as reason to keep mask mandates in place.
"Comparing Pima and Maricopa counties is a pointless way to study masks—because the people are fundamentally different—apart from masking," noted Vinay Prasad, an epidemiologist who has opposed COVID-19 mandates. "They have different rates of vaccination and different levels of caution."
Cochrane employed randomized control trials (RCTs), which are considered the gold standard for review. And the results are inarguable: Zoom out to the population level, and masks had a scarcely discernible impact on COVID-19 cases.
"The pooled results of RCTs did not show a clear reduction in respiratory viral infection with the use of medical/surgical masks," write the authors. "There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection."
David Zweig, a writer who helped call attention to the flaws in the Arizona study, noted that these negative findings reflect basic reality: While individual mask wearers might get some benefit for a while if they consistently, perfectly wear masks, this does not comport with the aggregate experience. According to Zweig:
Even the most ardent mask supporters, who want to wear them properly, fail to do so. And, as this study and others illustrate, even when masks are required they are either not worn properly, or not worn at all by a significant number of people. These images from a NY Times article comically show that children are no exception to this problem. And nor are teachers — this study, published by the CDC, on a school outbreak encapsulates the problem quite well: "the teacher read aloud unmasked to the class despite school requirements to mask while indoors."
Succinctly, Benjamin Recht, a statistician at UC Berkeley, who co-authored a re-analysis of the Bangladesh RCT, which negated that trial's findings, said: "At this point, I doubt any study will change anyone's mind about masking. But the one consistent finding of all of the randomized studies is that the effect of this intervention at the population level is vanishingly small."
The findings have yet to penetrate the mainstream media's bubble: Whereas flawed studies like the Arizona one received rave reviews in the pages of The New York Times and The Washington Post, so far the Cochrane review has not attracted coverage from these outlets. Nor has it garnered commentary from the CDC—an agency that has routinely seized on less compelling evidence in order to recommend the maintenance of intrusive COVID-19 interventions like mask mandates and lockdowns.
Indeed, while mask mandates are no longer a typical part of American life, there are still enclaves that require masking. Some U.S. schools have kept mask mandates in place, or brought them back during flu season. Within the nation's capital, George Washington University still requires masks in classrooms.
If following the science means updating one's priors when new evidence becomes available, then institutions that require masks should finally concede—three years into the pandemic—that indefinitely forcing them on unwilling people, especially children, is not a defensible strategy. As for any lingering government requirements, let this be the final and long overdue word: no more mandates.
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New study, old news. The facts remain the same.
Facts changed!
/sarcasmic
You're a conspiracy theorist if you recognized the facts before the evidence was overwhelming and they can't be hidden anymore - sarc
I'm not sure if it's the same study I saw last week or not, but the one I was looking at used data from as early as 2006.
America did a little “experiment” in 2021 that resulted in reams of data—masks work but aren’t a silver bullet.
Work for what?
If you're talking about signaling compliant behavior, they work great. Highly visible, easily spotted.
If you're talking about mitigating the spread of a respiratory virus, they do somewhere between nothing and less than nothing.
If you're wondering how we know this, there's a study linked in the article, and several others in the comments. Also, we've known it for years prior to 2021.
They work in providing an easy visual marker of who's complying and who's not.
Couldn't people have merely worn Blue stars on their shirts to show they were compliant? Much less intrusive than masks.
Show us the government mandates for people to wear “Blue stars”.
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Our experiment was Republicans rejecting masks and Democrats continuing to wear them…and so in 2021 Democratic populations that continued to mask had significantly lower Covid death rates than low information Trump populations in 2021.
This is not true:
https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/NBERcovidstudy.pdf
How dumb, you don’t adjust Covid deaths for age because Maine is the oldest population and it has a very low non age adjusted death rate. All things being equal a population’s % below poverty level determines a population’s death rate in America. Poverty is the best proxy for a myriad of public health issues in America. But things aren’t equal so 4 other factors are important:
1. Initial wave
2. Travel restrictions
3. 2021 low information Trump population did significantly worse
4. Very young population like Utah, Austin, DC
You should see if you can get your hands on ActBlue PDF from some time in the last 2 years, shreek.
They work really well for thieves, muggers and robbers. The evidence is posted all over the internet when people publish the videos they have of such events.
The criminal element in my region is well aware of this. They mask up with huge masks that cover their faces, put their hoodies up, wear puffer jackets and gloves.
It's really quite effective at hiding their identities.
If following the science means updating one’s priors when new evidence becomes available
This is not new evidence or a new study. It is META analysis of many older studies and a few new ones. The result is the same as before covid, when Fauci said masks do not stop airborne virus spread. Following the science has always shown masks to be a nostrum.
And it agrees with the previous century of studying masks and their effect on respiratory viruses. That's what I don't get. Why The Science threw away 100 years of studies.
For power. Obviously.
Science loves many things. Running people's lives for them was, sadly, a surprising number one for me.
Be careful not to conflate practitioners of actual science with authoritarian politicians who wrap themselves in "belief in science" as camouflage to scare the villagers into compliance.
Just because Dr. Fauci would like to enforce compliance on everyone and also claims to be the human embodiment of "Science" as a concept, doesn't mean both of those are actually true. The actual evidence really only supports one of those two assessments of the man. The same goes for anyone who claims to believe in bodily autonomy as a principle but also continued to support Covid Vax mandates when it became clear that those shots did little to actually hinder the spread of the virus.
Unlike the "actual practitioners of science" that dismissed the lab leak hypothesis out of hand because it was mentioned by DJT. Sorry, you're trying to create a fire break between Fauci and the rest that does not meaningfully exist.
Yes, vax did not stop the spread, but it did reduce the severity of the illness. So good for those at higher risk.
Nope, it didn't. This is an idiotic article of faith among those who developed COVID after being vaccinated. "It would have been so much worse if I wasn't vaccinated!" There is not one fucking shred of data to validate it, you stupid, lying piece of shit.
Whatever deaths were “prevented” by the nonvax were completely overshadowed by the deaths and long term maladies CAUSED by the jab.
Yeah because the entire scientific community didn't close ranks and try to destroy the careers of the epidemiologists who released the Barrington Declaration or anything, right you credulous fucking retarded cunt?
oh, we know why.
That’s what I don’t get. Why The Science threw away 100 years of studies.
Because FYTW.
Also because it made people feel good about being democrats. Still does.
You know about satiating urges, right?
I'd make you squeal like the fat pig you are, Chumbo.
I’m not gay nor am I a minor so you’re out of luck on both accords. Say, you should just go ahead and turn yourself in to the GBI.
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If so, why has a large segment of the Asian population in the Bay Area been wearing surgical masks when they go out in public for years. Long before Covid hit. It's almost like a cultural statement.
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It's never been about "following the science." It's always been about "respect mah authoritah."
The purpose of wearing a mask is to show fielty to the ruling class, it was never about safety
But in an era where enlightened people fear the worst possible tragedy, i.e. their kid might marry a Republican, masks are essential.
Right, and masks are an easily visible totem for identifying the goodthinkers from the wrongthinkers.
And that works both ways.
Yep, that's why I phrased it that way.
A certain Reason Editor even tweeted that fact out, as he was doing it.
While wearing a mask. Or three.
I prefer the description of it as a "religious talisman". It fits very well with the double "purpose" of supposed protection from an unseeable danger as well as signaling compliance/belief in an idea based on no actual objective evidence.
It even also fits somewhat in the Marxist sense of being something of an "opiate" to placate the masses against resistance in a situation where the State/collective is actually powerless to provide any meaningful assistance.
But, it worked. I know quite a few people that remain masked when out in public or, when an 'outsider' visits them at home. Hell, a couple of our friends even require that we take Covid tests before we come visit them.
Like 9/11 and the terrorists, the government has achieved it's goal on this. They've forced unquestioned subservience from the masses. They've reeducated us with thinly veiled scientific proof.
I can't wait for act II.
>a couple of our friends even require that we take Covid tests before we come visit them.
And they're still your friends?
Because, if I had to take a covid test to visit, you wouldn't have seen me.
I'm full in on allowing anyone who wants to wear a mask to wear that mask. Or whatever else they want to do. But I'm well over being forced to do really stupid things to alleviate someone else's hypochondria. The pandemic lunacy kind of broke me, I have no patience left.
Correct. All forms of totalitarianism are necessarily built on a cult of self-abuse. Our Democrats have taken it to a new level.
Correct.
In my personal experience, working in an ER, wearing the right kind of mask, the right way, and at the right time, did make a difference. This would be an N 95 respirator, correctly fitted and used as directed. As Michael Olstrom [Univ of MN epidemiology] described exposure to an aerosol, "if you can smell cigarette smoke through your mask, it isn't doing much good."
Paper or "surgical" masks, or cloth ones as typically worn by all the good citizens out and about, are pretty much useless, all the more so that they were often not even correctly worn. These were little more than a sign of virtue to tell everyone how with the program they were, or maybe how much they cared. I still see someone from time to time wearing one while driving their care, alone. Or out on a rail trail on a bicycle. Just dumb.
In my personal experience, working in an ER, wearing the right kind of mask, the right way, and at the right time, did make a difference.
Going to need proof, which you cannot provide.
Worked face to face with COVID nigh on 3 years, and I never contracted it. Again, you have to use the right equipment, the right way, and [hopefully] for the right reasons. These respirators, when were in short supply, were placed in a room and exposed to ultraviolet light every evening. Perhaps my "proof" is just anecdotal, but then that is what worked for me.
Masking as a public virtue was dumb at best, and very misleading at worst. I can think of a number of cases where the person truly believed that they were doing everything right, because they apparently believed the narrative and the media [yeah, those are one and the same].
Glad you didn’t get sick, but it’s just as likely you weren’t susceptible to the virus.
""but it’s just as likely you weren’t susceptible to the virus.""
Going to need proof, which you cannot provide.
If he can make an unsubstantiated claim, so can I.
Yet, his claim wasn't unsubstantiated. You just deem it insufficient to meet your standard of proof.
Except it is unsubstantiated because there is no evidence provided that allows for differentiation between the mask, personal resistance or alien experiments as to which created his lack of illness. Assertions are not evidence or debunking no matter how often the media claims otherwise.
It’s an assertion with substantiation that he did not contract COVID the entire time he was working with COVID patients. That is the substantiation. Again, you might not find it persuasive, but the substantiation is the fact he did not contract COVID while utilizing a mask.
He had a rock. It protected him.
Sure. And if you check him on it, you can be checked too.
It sounds plausible. But it would be nice if anyone had bothered to do any good studies on it in the past 3 years.
It would be extremely difficult to do such a study. Too many variables. You would need test subjects who were never exposed to the virus. Keep them in isolation and then deliberately expose them to the virus and try to infect them. You would need a control group that didn't have masks in the same environment. After a period of time you would need to do antibody tests to see who was exposed.
Where do you think you are? China?
Tuskegee, AL.
It may be hard to control for everything, but we could do a lot better than random anecdotes. Just because you can't do a full on double blind RCT doesn't mean you can't get some useful data.
I've seen providers at work do FIT testing for N 95s. Funny to watch. The fact that they were required to do it told me something about the BS about paper and cloth.
The problem is that asking everyone to wear masks all the time when they're outside of their homes, regardless of what they're doing, guaranteed that masks were not going to be worn properly. People would be touching their masks, they would lift to scratch their face, they're shifting it around.
The ridiculousness of asking people to wear masks at restaurants, for example-remove the mask, take a bite, replace the mask. It's actually worse than wearing no mask at all, and yet that's what people were asked to do-in some states, it's what they were required to do. It was always pure nonsense because there was no way even a third of the population was going to be using masks properly all of the time.
In California, we were told to re-mask between bites for Thanksgiving 2020, along with not gathering at all for the holiday, or staying outdoors (and still masking) if we did gather together with friends/family.
Of course, the following week, the Governor who told us all to do that was photographed dining unmasked with 22 other people from multiple families in a space which was closed off from outside airflow for a good portion of the night (because the level of noise they made was bothering the people dining in the outdoor area). To be fair to Gov Newsom, the birthday of an influential lobbyist is clearly important enough to require vacating the rules which are supposedly in place to save lives by the millions...
in place to save
livescontribution$ by the millionsIt was literally insane.
Andrew Bostom, MD, MS
@andrewbostom
2/ LARGE Cochrane Rev (just published 1/30/23) of RCT data ALSO CONFIRMS NO BENEFIT of N95 masks vs. med/surg masks, in either community (n~8K) or HCW (n~8K) settings for prevention of flu-like illness or lab confirmed flu https://cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/full
https://twitter.com/andrewbostom/status/1620442759026053120
Yes I see that; again, use the right equipment the right way at the right time, which the public was never going to do. Physical science loses out the political science every time.
The study is literally saying the N95 is the same as med/surg against respiratory illnesses. Again, 100 years of studies have backed this up. They've run these trials in many different ways from hospitals to dental offices.
I can only speak from my experience; and I credit the N 95 with providing me with an apparent level of protection from aerosolized virus. Again, what the community at large does and what we did in a hospital setting are two different things.
Conclude and proceed as you will; I did not wear them because I thought I was being good or looking the part.
Never wore masks. Never got sick enough to care to test. Have never tested.
At one point 50% of people were said to be asymptomatic.
All true, and none of us should over generalize from our particular experiences and observations. That is the job of researchers who adhere to strict protocols [which seem to have either been in short supply, or likely just ignored over the past few years].
I am glad neither of us got sick, because in the early stages of COVID is could be and often was deadly. Now it seems to have mutated into something between a bad cold and the flu, and should be treated as such.
"because in the early stages of COVID is could be and often was deadly."
Say what?
If you were 75+, suffered from obesity, hypertension, and/or diabetes, your odds of dying from COVID-19 were around 10%.
Of course, your odds of dying WITHOUT COVID were about 10% with those same factors.
COVID was never killing anything en masse apart from people who were already past life expectancy and had multiple comorbidities. Even in the first wave in Italy, average age of death was high 70s or low 80s.
That always amused me how covid death numbers by age group aligned so well with average mortality rates by age.
Take note of the type of equipment they wear in virology labs. It’s not paper masks,
Size of Covid virus:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7224694/
N95 respirators made by different companies were found to have different filtration efficiencies for the most penetrating particle size (0.1 to 0.3 micron), but all were at least 95% efficient at that size for NaCl particles.
The Virus wouldn't be well filtered by N95 based on size.
NaCl I'm pretty sure that's Salt.
Masks don't care about the chemical content, just the particle size. I'm sure you're aware of that.
Salt (NaCl) being relatively inert wouldn't make a difference, but there are cartridges made for different chemical vapors and fumes.
Not exactly. Solids interact with cloth or other mesh-like items differently than liquid droplets. Dust can bounce off threads or get tangled, while liquids often wet the surface and can desorb.
N95s are illegal to wear when working with silica and asbestos for exactly that reason. The virus is smaller than the typical silica or asbestos particle.
Yes, virtue signaling.
"Look at me, I'm part of the Right Thinking Brigade because I have a mask!"
Something you literally pushed for 3 years.
Bien pensant
There's actually a number of articles over the course of the pandemic by people explaining they wore masks so as not to be confused as being a Republican.
You meant, “Look at me, I’m part of the LEFT thinking…”
Fixed that for you!
Just last week I saw a guy playing saxophone in an indoor public area with a mask on with a mouthpiece size hole cut in it. I don't know if he was a musician or a comedian.
It was sadly real and pushed by most major orchestras.
An entire industry formed around specialized masks.
https://www.jwpepper.com/sheet-music/search.jsp?redirect=face-masks-for-musicians&perPage=12&pageview=list-view
Sure, my mask has an actual hole in it, but trust me, I'm preventing the spread of a virus by wearing it.
That shit does nothing at all other than virtue signal.
Masks with mouth holes cut out could be used by other entertainers.
...or glory hole enthusiasts
the cochran study also addressed n95 masks and showed that they also had no positive impact.
"There were no clear differences between the use of medical/surgical masks compared with N95/P2 respirators in healthcare workers when used in routine care to reduce respiratory viral infection."
I would have to delve into the study itself to further comment; again, how appropriately did those persons utilize the N 95? I cannot say, only tell you what I and my colleagues did and how we evaded infection. I certainly would not conclude that all masks are worthless, as there are other variables [especially correct fit and use] to be considered.
Understand I never agreed to the public/ political proclamations that we were all harangued with over the past few years. That was just plain misleading and never based on any science of valid studies or data. It was just people taking positions according to their politics.
i agree that the n95 *can* be somewhat effective when used properly and certainly more effective than a worthless surgical mask. as the op pointed out though they're rarely used correctly, which is why studies show they're not worth using.
I believe you are correct.
An N95 will not cut it either, and I'll speak from a bit of experience and training here. N95, cloth, and surgical masks are illegal to wear when working with silica and asbestos. Cloth and surgical masks are obvious, but what about N95s? N95s have holes to breathe in them that are bigger than the particles of silica and asbestos themselves, this includes on the mask and the sides (which I'll get to in a second). As good as they may be for some applications, they will never seal as well as a half-face respirator nor keep out particles as well as a P100 (HEPA) filter.
There are several types of respirators, and they have a protection factor that is related to the type of respirator. Linked here is the OSHA protection factors and use (PDF): https://www.osha.gov/sites/default/files/publications/3352-APF-respirators.pdf
Of note:
1910.134(g)(1)
Facepiece seal protection.
1910.134(g)(1)(i)
The employer shall not permit respirators with tight-
fitting facepieces to be worn by employees who have:
1910.134(g)(1)(i)(A)
Facial hair that comes between the sealing surface of
the facepiece and the face or that interferes with
valve function;
It's amazing how many guys with big-ass beards were wearing masks during Covid.
The individual who uses a tight-fitting respirator is to
perform a user seal check to ensure that an adequate
seal is achieved each time the respirator is put on. Ei-
ther the positive and negative pressure checks listed
in this appendix, or the respirator manufacturer’s
recommended user seal check method shall be used.
User seal checks are not substitutes for qualitative or
quantitative fit tests.
This cannot be performed with an N95 or lesser mask.
I go through a review of this stuff three times a year (twice for different asbestos refreshers, once for hazardous materials worker refresher).
Yes, wearing the right kind of mask, the right way and at the right time does make a difference. The point of the article, however, is that no one does that to any statistically relevant degree.
From my own personal experience (also in hospitals) and backed up by multiple studies, even highly trained surgical staff regularly wear their masks incorrectly. They wore them wrong pre-covid when you only had to put one on for the actual surgery. Compliance got even worse when we expected people to wear masks constantly.
You didn't read the article did you. There were clinical studies in the mix.
No, people being people, they often do not do what they need to do. Which is a big reason why mandates do not work. Those who most want to signal their personal virtue may be the worst at that.
I don't like wearing masks either, except when I enter a room with a patient that has very definite symptoms or is known to be infectious. When I do that I do my damnedest to do it correctly, because I do not want to get what they've got.
Masks for the sake of masks is stupid, but some hereabouts are so angry at the mandates and the dissembling that accompanied them, it doesn't matter what does or does not work. Masks symbolize tyranny.
My wife worked in hospital during COVID and told me two dirty little secrets the MSM failed to mention: (1) over 50% of persons “hospitalized with COVID” contracted COVID while they were hospitalized, and (2) hospital staff were the most likely source of the COVID patients contracted while hospitalized, often because the staff did not wear masks properly.
(2) It's because the masks they wear don't really work in the first place. Surgical masks are merely elaborate spit guards, and N95s don't do as much as one would hope for (see my comments above as an asbestos professional).
Here's where things get muddy. The claim in the article is that masks had no effect "at the societal level." The article also claims that one reason the masks were not effective is that they were not worn constantly, or perfectly.
If you are putting a mask on and off all day, you are likely reducing its effectiveness, so when we mock the person sitting in the car alone wearing a mask, we're actually making fun of someone who might be getting or providing to others a benefit because they are doing it right (though I was once amused at the kind of risk analysis carried out by a guy I saw on a motorcycle, wearing shorts and no helmet, but wearing his mask).
Also, you can't know if the person wearing a mask is not generally wearing it, but wearing it because of an exposure or even an infection. I don't see where the article speaks to that as being ineffective.
Cue the shrill cries of the shrilly crying regulars about how Reason really loves mask mandates, no matter what they actually say or said, because the voices in the commentariat's heads know the real truth.
Is continuing to call out mask mandates as bullshit an ad hominem?
“Is continuing to call out mask mandates as bullshit an ad hominem?”
No, just civic duty and a public service.
Poor sarc.
Sorry your memory is short, I guess? Ronald Bailey was all over some really shitty studies showing the effectiveness of mask mandates back in 2020. It was pure propaganda from the CDC and the comments were trying to tell him how bad it was, but of course Reason editors are above the comments:
https://reason.com/2020/11/25/masks-have-helped-to-blunt-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-kansas/?comments=true#comments
Bailey saying, "Just wear the mask, bigots!"
https://reason.com/2020/08/07/covid-19-and-the-tragedy-of-the-open-access-health-commons/
Three years ago they went with the information they had at the time?
OH!
MY!
GOD!
How dare they?
Three years ago they were shilling for mask MANDATES! Libertarians! Do you not get the problem here? They were completely fellating the orders of the state and the state was fucking wrong.
I read the article. It said nothing about mandates. It said that people should voluntarily do those things.
Even though decades of history and numerous studies ALL said that masks did not do a damned thing with this? Certainly not the ones people were wearing.
We were pointing that out, repeatedly, the entire time.
What does that have to do with accusing Reason of supporting mandates?
Why are you changing the argument? Because you are flailing?
https://reason.com/2020/06/12/mask-wearing-correlates-strongly-with-declining-covid-19-transmission-says-new-study/
The researchers review prior studies on how many respiratory particles infected people shed and how long those aerosols linger the the air, both indoors and outdoors. They note that the initial public health advice—e.g., frequent hand-washing—was largely aimed at preventing the disease from spread through direct contact, such as touching surfaces contaminated with the virus. And those are still good recommendations. But while following that advice slowed the epidemic, dramatic reductions in viral transmission in Italy and New York City occurred only after wearing masks in public was mandated. They therefore conclude that masking prevents the transmission of the disease by blocking the atomization of virus-containing respiratory droplets (coughing, sneezing, talking) and their subsequent inhalation by uninfected people.
This is a study Bailey promoted, about how simply telling people to wear masks didn't work, but passing a legal mandate to wear masks worked. In a libertarian publication. Sure, it came from a science journal but the tiniest bit of base skepticism should be a requirement when reading a study that's advocating a legal or policy position.
And with all of that, you still haven't shown that Reason was advocating for mask mandates. You've shifted the goalposts all the way to the hockey rink next door.
Go read the comments you ignorant sot. The people there were showing him the studies completed well before Covid showing it was bunk. The evidence was always there. It was buried and replaced with models and simulations instead. The commenters in those threads pointed those facts out.
FACTS DO NOT CHANGE.
You were wrong. You went with the narrative. You went against all evidence that was against said narrative. You blindly followed ignorance instead of recognizing the actual facts.
Didn’t dare to be seen as possibly a republican.
Sarc was following the seance.
3 years ago anyone with a 3 digit iq knew masks were useless. we all said so multiple times. you mouth breathers just didn't want to hear it.
Comb through the comments and you'll find exactly zero comments from me promoting masks, despite what the voices in your head say.
Lol
You promoted them for years and attacked those presenting the actual facts just in this thread as well as then.
You did the same for vaccines.
From the comments…
sarcasmic 2 years ago Flag Comment Mute User QUOTE-So let me get this straight – in mandated counties, the rate of infection plummeted from 17 per 100k all the way down to 16 per 100k? Well, can’t argue that masks sure are effective!-QUOTE
.
Meanwhile the number doubled where they weren’t wearing masks. Did you miss that part?
.
Remaining relatively constant vs doubling.
That is your response defending masks.
https://reason.com/2020/11/25/masks-have-helped-to-blunt-the-covid-19-pandemic-in-kansas/?comments=true#comment-8605452
Lying ignorant shit.
Why not post the rest of his comment? If he's a lying ignorant shit, then you are too.
"I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with the article because more information is needed to make the numbers relevant, like population density as you rightly mentioned. Just saying if you’re gonna rag on Ron you could at least be honest about it. Or pay more attention to the numbers. You know, remaining constant with masks vs doubling without."
It's a wishy-washy strawman he uses after that. And when did you go back to using your original moniker?
I don't think you understand what a strawman is.
How many socks you got here anyway? I see you're using your SPB2 one in another thread.
With luck reasonmag has decided to show some principles when it comes to posting links to child pornography, and banned his spb2 account. Now for this account.
Because he still defended for masks? The part that was relevant.
You, Mike, and Sarc all try to take the same tact. You say something that is 100% in one direction, then end it with a wishy washy comment saying how you really believe nothing to cover yourself for later.
You can read the rest of his comments in that thread. That is one example of him doing it. He stated he had never defended masks, yet there he was.
....yet there he was saying, "I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with the article because more information is needed to make the numbers relevant, like population density as you rightly mentioned."
Were you dropped on your head as a child? How fucking disingenuous can you be?
Sloppy Pluggo, it would be disingenuous of you to deny what you posted here. Turn yourself in to the GBI.
Yes, that is the wishy washy.
He literally defended it in the parts quoted, claiming areas without masks were twice as bad as those with masks. That is a defense of masks.
Are you an idiot shrike? The rest of his comment is after a defense of masking. And again, there is the rest of the thread as others where he has defended it.
His claim is he never defended it. Yet he did.
I'm sorry you're not intelligent enough to understand this shrike. Defend dems including sarc at all costs.
Three years ago they went with the information they had at the time?
Except they weren't really. The information available at the time was that every time mask use for stopping respiratory infections was studied it was found to have little or no effect. They went with whatever they could come up with to support their policy. Pushing masks was based on nothing but wanting to be seen to be doing something and control.
True they could have looked at past studies and did not. Instead they based their opinions upon whatever new information was coming out. And yes that new information was biased. But that's what they chose to work with. And their opinions have changed as the information they work with has changed. They deserve some credit for changing their minds instead of having steel traps for brains.
I linked you defending the narrative above. How much does it suck being so wrong all the time? Choosing narratives over evidence?
feelingz >>> facts
here he is again defending the pro maskers
True they could have looked at past studies and did not.
In other words, the did NOT "go with the information they had at the time", but rather chose to ignore it.
This was available at the time. Fauci from 2004 talking about wearing a mask to prevent the flu.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5024536/user-clip-fauci-well-wearing-mask-much
And yet, merely 16 years later, this a-hole was all in favor of mandating masks. Dr. Falsely.
And it was all horseshit, sarc. We knew, even before Covid, that masks were never going to work as protection from it or any other airborne virus.
Three years ago they went with the information they had at the time?
Fucking really? The New England Journal of Medicine issued a report in April 2020 that masks were of very little use in stopping a virus. They flat-out stated that wearing one was more for psychological purposes than anything else.
They were forced to walk it back after Branch Covidianism kicked into high gear with the lockdowns and mask mandates, and Fauci suddenly changed his mind that wearing a mask was absolutely necessary for one's safety.
We've had this knowledge for 100 years, going back to the Spanish Flu pandemic. It was never based on "information they had at the time," it was solely based on social control and engineering.
Three years ago they went with the information they had at the time?
The best information anyone had at the time was that masks don't work, which is why even the CDC stated that masks don't work.
Sarc is only here to attack other commenters and will do so even it he has to lie to do it.
Bailey citing a study that was so shitty it would be excoriated even in the MSM within two days:
https://reason.com/2020/06/12/mask-wearing-correlates-strongly-with-declining-covid-19-transmission-says-new-study/
My mask protects you, your mask protects me!
https://reason.com/2020/06/10/wearing-masks-is-an-effective-way-to-control-the-covid-19-pandemic-says-new-study/
This article includes a comment from Overt telling Bailey how shitty the science was, from three years ago:
Do you really think anyone at Reason looks at the comments?
The point isn't that Bailey should have read the comments. The point is that it was entirely possible to know, 3 years ago, that masks were useless, if you just thought about it. Because plenty of people did know and pointed it out.
Yeah, because the people in the comments are soooo smart. lol
Apparently smarter than "Scientists" and "Doctors" who pushed for expanded masking.
The ones who were correct?
You are aware that we were correct in the assessment while Bailey was not.
I know you feel an urgent need to defend Reason...but pretending that the people correct are dumber than the ones who were not is a stretch.
People in the comments are also very wrong about a great many things. What's your point?
This will probably come as a shock to you, because the people who leave unanswered replies to all of my comments say otherwise, but I never supported masks or mandates. I know the narrative about me says otherwise, and when given a choice between what someone says and what people say about a person you're supposed to believe the rumors, but that's the truth. Take it or leave it.
I literally linked to you supporting masks above.
I did not then and do not now care what your thoughts were on the subject. I opposed them when it was unpopular to do so. Anybody who did not is a pathetic pussy.
This WHO doc published in 2019 came to the same conclusion as the recent Cochrane review (most of these studies are in the most recent review with a few new ones).
https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/329438/9789241516839-eng.pdf
CDC reviewed the same stuff, came to the same conclusions.
And Fauci in 2004
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5024536/user-clip-fauci-well-wearing-mask-much
Yes, they do, occasionally Bailey would respond.
Yes.
https://twitter.com/ENBrown/status/1601256561086988289
Reason commenters make up a very small percentage of our readership, and are largely people who hate everyone on staff and all of our work, on any subject. They’re in now way representative of “libertarian audiences” overall
She's partially correct about dislike of staff and work. I wonder if she believes she, the staff, or the magazine are in any way representative of libertarian audiences? The staff and magazine ignore gross violations of individual and human rights based in their ideological biases, or fear of repercussions from their in-group. They write and publish stories well after the fact, when it is safe for them to do so. Rico is an occasional exception, as are several non-editors.
ENB is the most libertarian person Robbie knows.
They would benefit from spending time working in rural areas away from the coasts, meeting and talking w/ the people they describe as bigots and insurrectionist-adjacent. Then, too much time in & around logan circle drinking fancy cocktails likely makes staffers believe their in-group are benign, tolerant, and correct in their views.
Agreed.
""Do you really think anyone at Reason looks at the comments?""
Isn't that all they look at anymore?
I don't think it's as much of a draw as the H&R days when agile cyborg was still around. But the articles were libertarian-ish then, too. Or at least, less openly partisan.
They have to, to get so butt hurt they complain about us to their Twitter friends.
That one was especially bad. There is no way that study wasn't set up deliberately to mislead.
I didn't even post all the links to Bailey articles I could have. He was all on board the masking train. "Just bake the fucking cake" indeed.
There's a reason commenters have really, really turned against the writers the past few years.
Yes, they abandoned their anti-government genes when Trump became President. They found him 'icky' and vulgar (true!) and allowed that to color their view of his policies. They could not separate his personality from his deeds.
Sarc 5 days ago.
sarcasmic 5 days ago
Flag Comment Mute User
Sure. You probably think you’re tough because you got kicked out of public spaces for coughing in peoples’ faces, and you refused to get vaccinated because it’s a global conspiracy to microchip everyone. Then you get really tough by talking shit online. Sure buddy. Whatever you say.
Sarc has always defended masking and attacked those pointing out they are nearly useless. He does the same with vaccines. If anyone points out the risks he rages.
Even here instead of admitting he was wrong for 3 years, he attacks the posters who were right. He has mental issues and can never admit he was wrong in any way.
Gaslighting mentality. He can't help himself and he'll never concede because he believes himself to be correct; no matter what the evidence says. There are millions of progs exactly like him.
And when proven to be wrong will claim he never said it. When proven he said it he will claim it was sarcasm.
HERESY!
Dangerous and Harmful Misinformation!
How did this article get past the Ministry of Truth?
Facts Change! We could never have known! Covid--19 Amnesty!
Intelligent people make judgements and then stick to them, even if the facts change.
Only stupid people change their minds in light of new information.
The facts never changed. The bullshit narrative, on the other hand, was always evolving.
No Amnesty
You're wrong. What stupid people do is ignore information based on who's saying it. They claim they never got that information when it was out there, but the people they didn't like were the ones saying it. Now that people we like are saying masks are bad, we pretend it's new information because it's the first time the people we like are saying it, but it's not new.
They were ignoring previous studies and accepting statistical models that presented a hypothesis as if it was a proper experiment. Previous experiments never came close to the results the models were showing and we tried to tell them that, but it went completely ignored.
What stupid people do is ignore information based on who’s saying it.
You just called 95% of the people in the comments stupid, because they judge facts, ideas and information entirely upon the politics of the person saying it.
No. He is talking about you.
THE FACTS DIDN'T CHANGE.
You chose a narrative over the facts. The facts are presented in those articles linked above. You were wrong while those you hate were right. That's what makes you really angry.
Three years ago, how could anyone have known the facts when they were facts three years ago and people communicated those facts three years ago? How? HOW?
By the way, I muted ITL.
Post Sarc's List!
Post The List!
Very early in the pandemic the facts were contradictory and muddled. It was hard to know what to believe.
But by May 2020 the narrative had been set and there were enough facts and background evidence (2004 Fauci etc) for those who should have known better (CDC, Fauci, etc) to make better judgments. Later, the Great Barrington Declaration should have broken their fever, but they chose to ignore it. Sad. Sick.
we had all the same information 3 years ago. you were just too stupid to understand it.
Listening to the voices in your head again I see.
Drink Colt 45.
Have buddy lubricate my lower.
Burn the steak.
Buy nose candy from wait staff.
I guess Reason staff have concluded that mask mandates are no longer necessary. And by necessary they mean the Orange Man was defeated, and even if he tries to return, masks mandates will not be important in the next war.
We have known this since Summer of 2020. But RCV studies were held up by various journals as they didn't want to compete against the prevailing narrative, coming to the "wrong answer."
https://justthenews.com/accountability/whistleblowers/evidence-based-medicine-publisher-held-mask-meta-study-because-it
This has been known for 100 years at this point regarding respiratory viruses. This was mentioned in thread after thread in the comment sections here.
The problem is The Science replaced direct evidence with simulated modeling. Models that are non validated are biased to the programmers assumptions for the most part. There is a reason why predictive usefulness of a model is required, to show it can operate more than on assumptions. The Science took the models as gospel without any validation or predictive capabilities of the model.
At the very beginning, we didn't know. So wearing masks seemed safest. But very shortly afterward we did know. They don't help. Not even the double masking. And especially not those crappy masks everyone wore.
N95 and KN95 work, but only if worn correctly. And no one wears them correctly. They need to be secured fitted to the face. Put one one, spritz the air with Lysol, and if you can smell the Lysol it's not on right.
But masks are part of hte pointless ritual that the Karenocracy have developed. Wearing a mask today indicates you are either seriously OCD, or one of the Karenocracy. That's what it's for.
I have a lot of friends who are OCD and still only shop for groceries at night when no one is around, wearing triple masks, etc. I feel sorry for them. But they've always been OCD. Legitimate OCD in the clinical sense.
On the other hand, you have my neighbor who is a local politician. She and her husband STILL quarantine everything they purchase for three days. They have a queue of deliveries outside their door being cycles to indoors. Even a large ice cooler for perishable groceries. They no longer even go to stores, everything is online even the groceries. She was weird before (all politicians are dysfunctional human beings), but it's not reached SNL levels of skitdom.
p.s. On the other hand, if you have a cold or flu and insist on coming into work anyway, fuck you. And wear a mask so you don't sneeze your shit all over me. If one good thing comes out of this pandemic, I hope it's a culture of NOT coming into the office when you have the flu.
At the very beginning, we didn’t know.
That's the problem-this is a lie. We did know. The establishment was lying to us about the effectiveness of masks. It's pure security theater to make people feel safe, just like the TSA. There was information out there that was being blatantly ignored. Shitty study after shitty study was pushed showing that masks were fabulous, they were amazing, they were saving the world, but when you looked at them, they were done in the most anti-scientific manner possible. It was propaganda wrapped in the veneer of science, all while people were screaming "TRUST THE SCIENCE!"
This is why comments here are going to come across as pissed off. Science was a costume the propaganda was wearing, and now that it's being demonstrated, we want people to acknowledge their role in spreading propaganda.
We didn't know because we were lied to. I say "we" as in the sense of individuals in a society, NOT THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT! I know you guys worship government when your color is in charge, but we the people thought masks were effective because common sense says they are. We use them to keep dust out when we're working in the shop, we see doctors wearing them when they do surgery, so surely they must do something?
If not for their willing accomplices in the media, we would have figure it out in days rather than the weeks it took us. Still don't account for the remaining three years that we told we still have to wear them.
Libertarians for trusting the government . . .
There were a large number of us in the comments in early-to-middle 2020 who were asking where the local/state/federal governments were divining their power to enforce things like:
lockdowns
mask mandates
eviction moratoriums
curfews
business closures
social distancing
which types of products we were allowed to purchase should we be granted the privilege of visiting a store
which workers or business sectors were 'essential'
the closure of beaches, parks, or playgrounds
etc.
Indeed.
That is some mind blowing projection right there. The links above show the commenter you are accusing of bending to government literally fighting against them. Something you did not do.
Common sense and basic understanding of science told us masks were ineffective you raging moron. Including 100 years of study.
I dunno Jesse. Not many people had even thought about masks and whether they were effective in March 2020. The media jumped on them pretty quickly, so most only heard one side of the story and didn't dig for info on their own. It took a while before some voices got out and challenged the narrative.
Those in charge - CDC, Fauci, etc., not Trump or your garden variety politicians - should damned well have known from the very early days and should have had open discussions. The politicians merely wanted TO DO SOMETHING, ANYTHING, to be seen to be trying to help. I fault them for not listening to the few voices - Rand Paul - who were challenging the narrative, and at least have the discussion, debate.
We the people in the comments (and probably the dirty Moses Caucus and those fucking disgusting Republicans) knew the truth at the beginning because we aren’t fucking stupid and could read things from before 2019.
Fuck off with that bit of gas lighting.
People Are Dying!
Yes, we did know. Study after study was produced in these various comments.
Believing masks were studied regarding viral infections only after 2019 is a belief based on ignorance.
we never needed a study. this is the leftist lie. the mask problem was always very simple. a mask is a filtration device that filters particles. its effectiveness is controlled by the size of its pores. three years ago we knew the specified pore sizes for all masks and we new the size of the virus. with this information anyone can know that the mask is useless. nothing more than a 3rd grade math problem.
Yeah. Many of us linked to the physical size of the virus to show that in the comments. It was obvious to anyone with basic reasoning capability.
right. the problem, evidently, is that more than half the country does not have basic reasoning capabilities. even to this day i see morons wearing masks. it’s pretty rare where i live, but i do see it. the covid outbreak was useful in that it was very revealing. it showed us what our neighbors are really like — this revelation caused me to move because i couldn't live with idiots.
A look at the situation in China will tell you masks do not stop the transmission of viruses.
She and her husband STILL quarantine everything they purchase for three days.
Wow. Some people really never updated their "facts". I'm pretty sure transmission from surfaces was determined to be negligible pretty early on.
My company still sanitized the handles and handrails twice a day for a bit over a year. Because the got the county government memo telling them to do that but never got one telling them to stop.
Hell, Colbert is thrilled that his audience, to this day, STILL wear masks to his show.
Might help prevent the cameras from seeing that nobody is smiling or laughing, but it is just pathetic.
Bullshit...
https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/329438/9789241516839-eng.pdf
"OVERALL RESULT OF EVIDENCE ON FACE MASKS
1. Ten RCTs were included in the meta-analysis, and there was no evidence that face
masks are effective in reducing transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza. "
Huh, that study was published in 2019.
On the other hand, you have my neighbor who is a local politician. She and her husband STILL quarantine everything they purchase for three days. They have a queue of deliveries outside their door being cycles to indoors. Even a large ice cooler for perishable groceries. They no longer even go to stores, everything is online even the groceries. She was weird before (all politicians are dysfunctional human beings), but it’s not reached SNL levels of skitdom.
Fucking hell, man--anyone that neurotic should be legally barred from running for anything to do with local politics or be involved with something that affects the lives of thousands of people. All they do is let their neuroticism drive their policy proposals rather than common sense.
Brandybuck
At the very beginning, we didn’t know. So wearing masks seemed safest.
Those whose primary interest is defending the left reveal themselves by lying about reality so their defenses can be effective. In our reality at the very beginning of the pandemic the CDC accepted the science and publicly stated masks were ineffective. It was only as the pandemic was politicized that the CDC changed its position to recommending masks.
At the very beginning, we didn’t know.
We kind of did. Anthony Fauci correctly proclaimed that masks were pretty much useless. Then he reversed the truth with a lie, claiming he lied to protect the supply of masks.
The CDC had and still has this data on its website from long before the pandemic. But then two engineers stuck two pieces of cloth over a plastic tube and blew air through them, and then we were off to the races.
The mask was almost always a symbol of compliance, nothing more.
Just as we knew the fatality rates, and who was most likely to die in mid-2020, by looking at case studies like the Diamond Princess. But, again, public health officials lied, and the lie became another tenet of religion for the left-leaning & progressive.
So you're saying we just need more training on how to wear masks properly?
But of course it won't. Not unless the authoritarians can find something equally effective for getting their AUTHORITAH boners rock hard. My guess is "climate change" lockdowns. Because The Science demands it.
At some point, one might hope, people would simply refuse to comply. Unfortunately, even that would not cause the authorities to stop. After all, they're not even remotely affected by non-compliance as long as they continue to occupy their cushy seats in power and can posture in front of the adoring news media blow-dries and engage in mock combat with their counterparts across the aisle.
At some point, one might hope, people would simply refuse to comply.
Based on the rate of compliance with all this bullshit from that last three years, I think it's safe to assume that most people are bootlicking sheeple who will do anything a man in a lab coat says to as long they're scared enough and the man in lab coat is able to appear "expert" enough. Lab coats and "expertise" have replaced priest robes and divine authority for many people.
This is typical of the new normal for citizens and their government. Make up whatever excuse they want to float to justify doing whatever they want to do anyway and then, after the damage has been done and the perps have long ago moved on to even more lucrative positions, the real science starts to roll out. Instead of learning from this experience, the voters continue to demand an even bigger, more powerful and more expensive role for the officials they elect. They never seem to notice the increasing pace of crumbling of the infrastructure, the economy and the social contract. Instead, they simply demand more and more "help" from the nanny state they elected that caused most of the problems in the first place.
It boggles the mind.
Yes, the average person heard both that masks were and were not effective. The media amplified one version and that stuck with most people since they had no way to determine for themselves what to believe.
Miscegenation: Good Or Bad? The photograph in the posting is of a male Negro* with his apparent girl-friend, a female Caucasian. Why choose that kind of photograph? Know advertising when you see it. The real function of the posting is propaganda not news. It is to promote miscegenation.
Ah, but is the consequence of miscegenation, especially between Caucasians and Negroes good or bad. Biologically? Sociologically?
For a scientific discussion, visit . . .
https://www.nationonfire.com/negroes/ .
*During the 1960s, a Negro from Barbados named Keith Baird (1923-2017) then residing in these United States of America began a campaign to erase the word “Negro” from applying to Negroes; thereby, substituting abstract sociological ideology for operational biological reality. He proposed the term, “African-American”, as a replacement, ignoring the fact that Caucasoid Americans originally from South Africa also would be “African-American” and that Arabs from Northern Africa are Caucasians. -excerpt from the novel, Retribution Fever
Funny what some people focus on. As in your case, you seem to have an unhealthy fixation on skin color. So anyway, I took a look at the pic and I’d say she appears to be Latina of some sort with an outside possibility of being Asian. Is that OK in your twisted world? Probably not. They should stick to their own tribe, amiright?
If you took biology, you would have come across the concept of 'hybrid vigor' - that crosses of different types produce more vigorous offspring since the recessive, flawed genes are not expressed as much as the more robust genes.
We see now why you and your ilk still wear masks and hoods…to keep down your Fear of a Black Universe!
Fuck Off, Pseudo-Intellectual Ku Klux Krud!
We all know that's not what "follow The Science" (capital t, capital s) means. Follow The Science means "do whatever your anointed betters tell you to do, peasant! And no back talk!"
Especially if those betters are priests in lab coats. It's not about science, it's about The Science, which is a cult.
The true scientists in the comments make up their minds and then reject any information that contradicts their priors.
What information is contradicting our priors? This one here reaffirms it.
Along with every other study on masks prior to April 2020.
Yes, but masks hide ugly people, and that's a good thing!
I'm in favor of extended mask mandates for uggos.
there isn't enough time in the day and I don't have enough middle fingers.
I don’t have enough middle fingers
That's why every once in a while you just have to channel your inner Razorfist.
hellyeah.
According to the CDC (before the Communist Chinese Virus panic)"
"If you are sick," the CDC says, "you should wear a facemask when you are around other people (e.g., sharing a room or vehicle) and before you enter a healthcare provider's office." But "if you are NOT sick," it adds, "you do not need to wear a facemask unless you are caring for someone who is sick (and they are not able to wear a facemask).
From the Lancet:
" A randomized trial of face masks involving about 7,700 hajj participants in Mecca had less promising results. At the end of the study, which was reported in The Lancet last year, the subjects who received masks—most of whom used them intermittently or not at all—were just as likely to have viral respiratory infections as those who did not."
From the New England Journal of Medicine 5/21/2020:
"We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic."
in my state masks are still required in healthcare facilities. fuck that noise. i won't wear one. almost all of the time no one says a thing. the healthcare providers all know this is nothing but theater. they do it only because the idiot governor requires it.
Why are YOU walking around inside medical facilities?
We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. - NEJM
This was true then and remains true today. The important sub-element of this is '6 feet'. Not something intrinsic about 'mask' (eg whether it is N95, surgical plastic, or homemade cloth/bandana/etc). This is imo why mask usage generally worked in Asia and not in the US. In places like Japan, there were no mandates. In South Korea, the only mandates were inside medical facilities and on public transport.
But the habit of wearing them was widespread - and the public health authorities (who are always inclined to keep advice in place for as long as we fail to eat our broccoli) in Asia have just (like in the last week or three) changed their advice.
The purpose of a mask in a pandemic is communication with others - 'please try to keep our distance from each other in this situation where we can't help but be in the same space'. Not 'this magic mask protects me from you' or 'this mask/not tells me you are a De/Rp so therefore it is imperative that I get into your face, yell at you and everyone around us, call the manager, rip it off your face, shoot you and your dog, etc'.
I haven't worn a mask in close to two years- and not much after April 2020 (when grocery stores finally did the basic stuff to protect workers and customers). And the South Korea scope mandates are the only ones I said - ok (in large part because I saw and was impressed with their/Taiwan/Singapore approach in Feb 2020). But holy flying fuck about the politicization and the almost perverse communication signaling about masks here in the US. It says a lot - none of which is positive about the American future.
In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.
That is a Western or perhaps just American response to masks. The first masks I saw here in the US (in early March 2020 - before lockdowns and TP shortage and public health advice) were by Asians (of all ages) and then a bit later by retiree-age. The article above gives a reason why healthy Asians responded by wearing masks - the Asian etiquette that masks signal respect for other's well-being. Is it coercion (like a mandate)? Clearly not - but is just as obviously anathema to people here. The retiree-age was clearly more about self-protection but that was a valid concern for them not some Karen-like 'anxiety'.
Six feet is more made up bs, 1m is the accepted distance elsewhere. As for the rest, you have no place making any argument, or asking anybody why they do or don't wear a mask. You promoted the denial of basic medical care for those that did not receive a vaccine that neither prevented the spread of nor infection by the virus. You are a totalitarian bootlicker, so fuck off.
Six feet is more made up bs, 1m is the accepted distance elsewhere.
Missing the point. The correct issue is DISTANCING not intrinsic features of a mask. If mask triggers distancing, then it works because of the distancing. If it triggers fights over politics, then it fails because of the distancing.
you have no place making any argument, or asking anybody why they do or don’t wear a mask. You promoted the denial of basic medical care for those that did not receive a vaccine that neither prevented the spread of nor infection by the virus.
Oh where do I begin? I'll ignore the logical fallacies here. Just two basic errors.
First - re what I actually said v what you want to straw man.
I never promoted the denial of basic medical care for the unvax. I promoted the denial of ICU care - for the treatment of COVID - during those windows when hospitals have to deny care to someone (via crisis standards of care) because those ICU's are full. That is much narrower and you know it.
Specifically MY proposal is a solution to two problems:
One - changing the decision tree for those contemplating the vax. From 'odds of reducing exposure to Cov2 and/or symptoms of said exposure' to 'odds of being hospitalized and dying from covid'. The first is a useless meaningless irrelevant basis for a decision. Freezing that as THE basis for a vax decision only encourages politicization of an INDIVIDUAL decision and the introduction of antivaxxers and Rockwell Caucus into polluting those individual decisions by making them some political public signal for heckler veto.
The odds of being hospitalized and dying from covid however is more than just an individual decision. It imposes costs on others. Including the EXTREME cost of forcing hospitals to decide whether someone with eg pancreatitis dies instead of an unvaxxed person with covid.
Two - was to incorporate and formalize pandemic factors into 'crisis standards of care' when the pandemic is the cause of said crisis standards being implemented
My goal was not to 'punish' the unvax. It was to force their decision calculus into recognizing that IF they choose not to vax, THEN they will not be able to push themselves to the front of the ICU line for treatment of covid. More people incorporating that info into their vax decisions would have REDUCED the timeframes when hospitals were forced into formal/informal crisis standards of care and thus REDUCED all-cause excess mortality.
If mask triggers distancing, then it works because of the distancing.
Masks provide a false sense of security and likely reduce a person's tendency to keep at a distance because 'the mask makes them safe.'
a vaccine that neither prevented the spread of nor infection by the virus.
The second error is one you are perpetuating with the way you phrase this. As I said above, that phrasing above is meaningless and irrelevant except for anti-vaxxers and the Rockwell Caucus assholes.
The real point of the vaccine was to reduce the odds of people being hospitalized or dying. FOCUS.
And yes - that is exactly what the vaccine achieved. Further - the decision by many - including Rockwell Caucus types here - to politicize the vaccine and pollute the public discussion with their lies - resulted in excess all-cause mortality in those areas that believed that shit.
Summary page of a Yale study of excess mortality along partisan lines. I'm not going to summarize the study because the lying sacks of shit in the commentariat here will just create a whole new set of straw men to create a whole new set of lies. The link to the study is in the above and it's an easy to understand study that is quite well-crafted and controlled - though limited to Florida and Ohio.
The real point of the vaccine was to reduce the odds of people being hospitalized or dying.
If that's true, then the manufacturers and government were lying. The "vaccine" was widely and loudly advertised as preventing infection and contagion.
If that’s true, then the manufacturers and government were lying.
If so, so what? That's not the reason most people took the vaccine. People took the vaccine to prevent serious consequences - not irrelevant consequences.
Lying is cool now.
And for many people, the only potential consequences were losing their jobs if they didn’t get the jab.
Do you seriously believe you can revise history as if we can't remember a year or two ago?
I mean...there is a generation of kids growing up that are learning basically everything good in the country came from Africans, everything is built on slavery, and nothing but badness comes from whites.
So I would say that playbook is working more than it isnt. JFree and other shitweasel lefties use it often.
Getting away with lying about what happened in 1619 is a lot easier than lying about what happened two years ago.
"The real point of the vaccine was to reduce the odds of people being hospitalized or dying. FOCUS."
The real point of the vaccine was to make Pfizer a truckload of money, full stop.
If it was for what you said, they wouldn't be propagandizing it and pushing it on fucking 5 year olds who have a nil risk of hospitalization or death.
You pushed it on the entire population knowing they didnt need it (and it didnt stop spread, which you also knew, but still advertised).
Why not push the pneumonia vax on the entire population? I mean my 5 year old has near the same odds dying of pneumonia as COVID, how come that one wasnt pushed?
Oh, right. Pfizer doesn't have a new, experimental, very lucrative patent on that one, so no one stood to make massive money on it.
It was always a money and power play, stop embarrassing yourself by trying to make it about public health, that ship sailed a long time ago and you have been clowned on it ever since
Legally mandated superstition.
If it makes you feel better, then wear a mask. If you see somebody without a mask, feel free to scowl and mutter to yourself. When dealing with my own family, I bite my tongue and go along with the superstition. That is the extent of my tolerance.
I remember when the pandemic was well underway, it was probably week 4 or so, they were about to start mandating masks everywhere. I went to the store, maskless. Walking across a parking lot. Another guy with a mask was also crossing the lot to the store. I coughed.
He gave me the most alarmed look. It was pathetic. An adult man scared of a person coughing. This entire pandemic was such a joke.
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Where's Tony to tell us we're all killing grandma because we won't wear masks?
Somewhere in postmodern kiddie diddling lala land.
Was there an Amber alert in his area coinciding when he stopped commenting?
The Cochrane Library's review of masking trials should sound the death knell for mask mandates everywhere.
Lol. Lmao, even.
Posting this fact in the comments since 2021.
Now do all of the climate change interventions.
Let's just declare amnesty on this subject, and forgive everyone who turned Anne Frank in.
Not everyone against pro-mask choice are Conservative; but ALL the pro-maskers are Leftists.
We pro-choice folks were mock, derided and belittled by the MSM. They can eat our shorts.
If following the science means updating one's priors when new evidence becomes available, then institutions that require masks should finally concede—three years into the pandemic—that indefinitely forcing them on unwilling people, especially children, is not a defensible strategy.
That's a reasonable interpretation if the discussion is based in English.
If we're going to translate from left-progressive newspeak, in which "liberal" actually means "authoritarian collectivist", and bodily autonomy can be called a fundamental principle while it actually only applies to a very small range of specific medical decisions (which are only applicable to half the population at most), then "following the science" actually means blindly accepting whatever interpretation of "science" is presented by political operators (with or without any kind of "science" cretentials) based on what subset of the evidence can be construed to lead to a particular pre-determined "conclusion".
I wish I were surprised that this post cherry-picked bits from the report to support their preconceptions rather than what the report actually said which was, cut and pasted:
Do physical measures such as hand-washing or wearing masks stop or slow down the spread of respiratory viruses?
Key messages
We are uncertain whether wearing masks or N95/P2 respirators helps to slow the spread of respiratory viruses based on the studies we assessed.
Hand hygiene programmes may help to slow the spread of respiratory viruses.
They can't tell: maybe they help, maybe they don't. Given the zero practical cost of wearing a mask. I'll keep wearing mine when I'm in public buildings.
You could have just said that you disagree, will continue to interpret facts through your ideological lens, and are scared. Much shorter.
Isn't the proof on you to prove masks work? Stunning discovery as it would be after 100 years of study.
Don't forget to put it on while you're diving alone in your car, too.
"Given the zero practical cost of wearing a mask... "
Cite? Children are not affected by lack of human expression?
Given the zero practical cost of not wearing a mask, no one should require them anywhere, and we can continue judging you for wearing your religious totem.
I hear big government now recommends smearing shit all over your clothing to ward off the unclean. Also helps to prevent the spread of gonorrhea and having to talk to people with common sense.
It was a golden age for ugly people with pretty eyes.
Cosigned
I'm a little surprised that there's no article from Ronald Bailey talking about how this study proves that masks work, like he wrote with previous studies on masks not working. I guess that government cash finally dried up.
The CDC already knew these masks were useless against respiratory viruses from their long term RESPECT study they did around the USA with a few thousand outpatient care workers. Both surgical masks and N95 masks were tested. Thousands of nasal swabs found inflenza and many other viruses up the noses of the participants.
Not only can respiratory viruses float around without being in a snot or saliva droplet, in which case they can sail right through either kind of mask, it's impossible to make a perfect seal around the edges, where free virions and viruses in droplets go in and out just like not wearing a mask.
If you want virus protection, wear a PAPR with a good neck seal and an intake filter NIOSH rated for blocking viruses. If you're male with a neckbeard you'll have to shave your neck where the seal goes. While the blower keeps positive pressure inside the head covering, there's still the possibility of viruses and other contaminants getting in.
It was never about health, it was always about repression and seeing how much the populace would tolerate. Believe me, the way people obeyed the stupidity the deep state sees masks as a big win. I still see people alone in their vehicle driving around with masks on. The sheep will obey all the way to the slaughter house or ovens while claiming those that resist are harming them.
In over 5,000 years of recorded history, with the possible exception of brief moments due to natural catastrophe, no totalitarian measure ever helped anyone but the totalitarians.
Did anybody actually read the study ? Did anybody bother to read the author's conclusions in the grey box at the bottom ? How is something with low confidence in statistical terms even worth printing to the public as gospel ? Who is running this dog and pony outfit ?
https://www.cochrane.org/CD006207/ARI_do-physical-measures-such-hand-washing-or-wearing-masks-stop-or-slow-down-spread-respiratory-viruses
---------------------------------------------------------
What are the limitations of the evidence?
Our confidence in these results is generally low to moderate for the subjective outcomes related to respiratory illness, but moderate for the more precisely defined laboratory-confirmed respiratory virus infection, related to masks and N95/P2 respirators. The results might change when further evidence becomes available. Relatively low numbers of people followed the guidance about wearing masks or about hand hygiene, which may have affected the results of the studies.
Agreed. What this study shows is two things. One, regular folks doing regular things in regular places are not going to be able to reduce the transmission and exposure to airborne viruses as well as health care providers working in controlled facilities where they are being conscientious. And health care providers are working with SICK people, so clearly if they are wearing masks, there is value in doing so. What that points out is, Two, masks are not a silver bullet or panacea. They are part of a system of practices and behaviors and choices. That was ALWAYS the CDC guidance.
So where are the comparison charts and graphs showing that mystical redneck Florida had a lower death rate during the pandemic thanks to the Jesus Guv? With water on three sides you'd think this'd be a freebie, right? So where's the data?
https://theconversation.com/yes-masks-reduce-the-risk-of-spreading-covid-despite-a-review-saying-they-dont-198992
Masks are required. You just have to change them, you don’t have to wear them when you walk in the park, but when you go to the subway, to a store, you have to wear a mask. This reduces both the discharge from the sick person and the inhalation of the person who inhales it. It is very bad to protect yourself and your health in a timely manner, for example, I visit regularly https://easystd.com/std-symptom-checker to protect myself from various diseases and to be sure of my future.
Is this a real comment, or auto-generated spam? It's impossible to tell. That says something about the mental state of those who bought into government (mis)information...
Most of the science educators I actually trust feel the Cochrane meta study is deeply flawed and should not be used conclusively in either direction. The fact that this has evolved into a religious debate on the issue already is predictable.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/masks-revisited/
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