Virginia Is Considering 4 Different School Choice Bills
At least four different bills are before the General Assembly that would empower parents to use education funds in ways they see fit.

Republican Glenn Youngkin won the race to be Virginia's governor in 2021 largely by appealing to parents who wanted more control over their children's schooling. On the campaign trail, Youngkin touted school choice programs like vouchers for educational expenses. Now, as if to make good on his promise, there are at least four school choice bills before the Virginia General Assembly.
H.B. 1508 would establish the "Virginia Education Success Account Program." Virginia currently spends around $5,000 per student on K-12 education. Under H.B. 1508, parents of children currently enrolled or starting in public schools could receive a portion of that amount deposited into a savings account to use toward education expenses, including tuition or books in a nonpublic school, tutoring services, or test prep services. Del. Glenn Davis (R–Virginia Beach), the bill's sponsor, said "Too many students are trapped in schools that are failing them, especially in our historically black communities…. This bill allows parents to choose the educational experience best suited for their child." The bill also has the support of Lt. Gov. Winsome Earle-Sears.
Three other similar bills have also been proposed in the current session: H.B. 1371, S.B. 823, and H.B. 1396 would each create some form of an educational savings account program. The bills vary in eligibility: Under S.B. 823, families earning up to 300 percent of the federal poverty line would qualify, whereas H.B. 1396 would apply for families earning up to 1,000 percent of the free lunch standards or 1,200 percent for families of a child with disabilities. H.B. 1371 contains no limits based on income, and any Virginia residents whose children are eligible to enroll in public school can apply.
Education savings accounts are different from traditional vouchers, in which parents can opt out of public schools altogether and apply all or part of their child's per-pupil state spending toward tuition at a private or parochial school. But extra money could make a big difference for a child with disabilities or whose parents can't otherwise afford help.
Opponents argue that school choice deprives money from already-underfunded schools and that, without proper oversight, parents can use education savings accounts outside of prescribed education expenses. Under Arizona's Empowerment Scholarship Accounts program, parents opt their children out of public schooling and receive up to 90 percent of the state's per-pupil spending in an account. In 2018, the state's auditor general discovered that parents of enrolled students had collectively misspent more than $700,000 on noneducation-related expenses, such as cosmetics and sports apparel.
But state governments are hardly models of fiscal restraint when it comes to education spending. During the COVID-19 pandemic, the federal government disbursed over $190 billion in aid to help schools reopen. Many states struggled to get even half of their students back in person while spending their pandemic mitigation funding on athletic facilities or just absorbing it into the regular budget.
Besides, it bears repeating where this money comes from. Taxpayers are forced to foot the bill for the operation of government-run schools that school-aged children are required to attend. If parents don't want their children to go to the assigned school in their district, their options are to home-school or to pay for private school, but they are still taxed in either case. Arizona's parents may have spent education funds on noneducation-related expenses, but there aren't many options for parents who don't want to send their kids to the single school their state has assigned to them.
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"Opponents argue that school choice deprives money from already-underfunded schools . . . "
Demonstrable false.
Education spending has been multiplied time and again with no increase in results. Schools are overfunded so much that they spend dollar after dollar on stuff that is not education.
Arizona spends roughly 10 to 15% less on students at charters or private. Yet both systems well out perform the public schools.
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My private high school in St. Louis in the '90s was spending about 33% per student compared to the public school district we were in, and outperforming them in every measure but football.
Seriously, the spending was about $4k versus $12k annually. Same zip codes, same demographics. And we did a lot better on academics and college admissions. We had no overhead. There were like 6 staff on the entire payroll who didn't teach a class. The principal, 2 secretaries, 2 lunch ladies, and a janitor.
Whenever some new policy is created, someone has to administer it. The result is more and more administrators per student, increasing the cost of running public schools. That's the main funding problem.
Allowing money to follow students allows for a reduction of administration. I know Maine is backwards and has only a dozen or so charters as you guys all bend the knee to left narratives, but in areas like Arizona where charters and ESAs exist the cost per student actually decreases. They get motivated on GED rates and test scores to attract parents. They compete.
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Mike’s not here, Mrs Torrance.”
I’m almost curious as to how JesseAz could make a personal attack in response to my comment, because every post of his is an attack of some sort. But I'm sure he did. It will be a cold day in Hell when he makes an intellectually honest comment in good faith.
Makes you look stupid contemplating replies. And doing so incorrectly. Good work buddy.
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There was no personal attack in his statement, he merely lumped you in with the rest of the voters on your state.
Bingo - government dysfunction in a nutshell. Pass a new law, create new regulations, commission a new study, and the resulting administration gets set up. This invariably metastasizes into salary and expense bloat without regard to effectiveness nor efficiency.
You can write off effectiveness and efficiency anyway because we're talking about government. It lacks the incentives for either.
To illustrate my point about administrative bloat though, all you have to do is ask an old person how many employees there were at their school growing up. They sure as fuck didn't have office after office after office of well-paid administrative idiots churning out useless rules that only made educating more difficult than it already is.
It gets worse. Every administrator needs an office, a desk, etc. And since administrators control the budget, these are _nice_ offices and furnishings. Massive amounts are spent on the administrator workspace, even when - or perhaps especially when - the roof is leaking in the classrooms, and they can't find the money to buy books or replace broken student chairs.
Public schools are institutionalized child abuse.
Hey, NYC proves that spending the most per pupil produces the highest achieving kids, right?
In fairness, you have to adjust for demographics -- children in a stable, functional 2-parent family are cheaper to teach because (a) the parents are also teaching at home, (b) the child isn't bringing home trauma into the classroom, and (c) you have less SPED (e.g. fetal alcohol syndrome -- mother drinking during pregnancy).
That said -- yes, of course NYC has the highest achieving kids....
Is that any more of a problem in NYC than in rural Mississippi? (Sorry, Mississippi)
Mrs Sippy resents your insinuation. She only takes a few sippies in the late afternoon to take the edge off…
Chicago says “hold my beer”.
In Arizona fraudulently elected Hobbs wants to end school choice. Something democrats continue fighting despite 80% if arizonas liking charters and the ESA program. Passed twice in the legislature, signed twice by prior governor, surviving 2 lawsuits and attempted ballot measure to end it.
As soon as you make that comment about your Governor being illegitimately elected, you lose any respect and any comfort you'll find from 99% of the people that I see here on these posts. You are a disease. You should not live in the United States since you really aren't a citizen. We could argue about that part all day but when one chooses to deny what the United States has been built on one should not be allowed to stay.
Now when you start making your nasty comments about my post understand this I spent 32 years in the US Marines fighting for your right to make the comment you did. If you or anyone else wants to argue about those rights send me an address and I'll be there. And so will 400 of my best buddies... So make sure you bring all the rusty square backs.
He didn't lose my respect for making that comment. I guess I'm a one percenter. Whoo Hoo. Hope you and your 400 buddies don't show up at my front door for saying so.
I respect Jesse.
I don't respect totalitarian faggots who lie and betray their country though.
Me Too.
Once you recognize the courts even stated there were issues in the election and used education instead of espousing leftist narratives, you can come back and argue.
My guess is you didnt see what Maricopa admitted to during the court case. The judge ruled on intention, not the fact that there were errors. The defense and judges both admitted to it. 25k magic ballots Maricopa couldn't find the source of, but posted by Hobbs office. 350k ballots without chain of custody. Silly those facts.
You argue from ignorance like most leftists do.
I spent 32 years in the US Marines fighting for your right to make the comment you did.
Guessing this week appeal to authority, which you aren’t even one, means you were non officer. This statement has zero bearing on the facts at hand. Usually statements like this are used when one is arguing from ignorance and realizes it. So congrats?
Why do you need 400 friends? Again. Argument from weakness you have to threaten someone. Too weak on your own? Tucson. Come meet.
I spent 32 years in the US Marines
False appeal to authority. And a red herring. And total bullshit. A real marine wouldn't need 400 of his friends to square up with Jesse.
send me an address and I’ll be there
1060 West Addison, Chicago, IL.
And fuck off, slaver.
Some Marines can square me up. Doubt this guy could. Lol. Really good friends with many. They never argue on the basis of their service. Makes me think stolen Valor.
Some Marines are like the 50 year-old guys still talking about high school football. That was their peak. They've got no accomplishments past that.
"Makes me think stolen Valor."
It probably is. He still sockpuppets here now and then.
He’s third best on his Call of Duty team.
You should not live in the United States since you really aren’t a citizen. We could argue about that part all day but when one chooses to deny what the United States has been built on one should not be allowed to stay.
Marines swear an oath to the Constitution. Try reading it, you stupid fuck.
Fuck off, dipshit. Hobbs is about as legitimately elected as a third world dictator. She controlled the means and the counting, along with her allies in Maricopa County.
If you or anyone else wants to argue about those rights send me an address and I’ll be there. And so will 400 of my best buddies…
333 W. 35th Street, Chicago, Illinois 60616.
His comment was correct. Katie Hobbs was not legitimately elected, and was likely complicit with election fraud in her previous position as SoS for Arizona. Arizona has had serious electoral abnormalities for years now, including under Hobb’s responsibility. Specially her conflict of interest in president I’ve ran election where she was a candidate, and a refusal to recuse herself.
When you begin a comment the way you did, you lose an respect from 99% of readers as an obvious leftist shill. You’re welcome to show up at my door with as many of your fe,low travelers as you choose. I promise it go poorly for you.
"Now when you start making your nasty comments about my post understand this I spent 32 years in the US Marines fighting for your right to make the comment you did. If you or anyone else wants to argue about those rights send me an address and I’ll be there. And so will 400 of my best buddies… So make sure you bring all the rusty square backs."
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When you put it that way, he’s just another version of Sqrlsy.
Pfft!
Not nearly as cool as Gecko45 of the Rapid Tactical Force.
https://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/
Squeal team sick
Hahahahahahahaha, who even says shit like that?
Hahahahahahahahaha
Sounds like somebody needs to go in with a flamethrower to clean out the nest of vermin.
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/georgia-attorney-general-wants-sweeping-indictment-targeting-protestors-apd-training-facility/FHDGUVTEZZBD7LPU4IGJFG5HOQ/
Georgia Attorney General wants sweeping indictment targeting protestors at APD training facility
A protestor shoots at cops and gets fired back upon. Liberals riot and try to burn down a police station. Truly proper protest.
I'm so sick of putting up with this shit.
"Liberals riot and try to burn down a police station."
They are LEFTISTS, not liberals! A "liberal" believes in the respect of life, liberty, & property -- that those rights of others are more important than the issue at hand.
That said, imagine if a bunch of upset Trump voters had tried to burn down the City Clerk's Office. While it's the same thing -- attempting to burn down a municipal building -- might the response have been a tad different???
Trump supporters don’t do that. Only democrats and their surrogates in antifa, BLM, etc..
They're not even leftists anymore. They're some sort of weird corporatist thing hybridized with libertines.
Their actions and beliefs most closely line up with the brownshirts that they declare to be anti.
Modern leftism/globalism/establishmentarianism is a combination of the worst aspects of nazism, communism, and fascism... with none of their possibly positive aspects.
And another warning about the threat of right wing extremists....
Antifa vs Atlanta.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/atlanta-police-arrest-night-chaos-violent-protesters-cop-car-smashed-windows
Atlanta police arrest 6 in night of chaos after violent protesters lit cop car ablaze, smashed windows
There's no such thing as Antifa, just false flag MAGA hat wearers. It is known.
We need notarized membership cards for that accusation.
There were no rioters on January 6. Just Antifa and FBI infiltrators. It is known.
Cite someone said that ever?
I do have cites of you defending non violent j6 actors facing 20 years. Want to play?
He was probably too drunk to remember what he wrote.
Chumby had a thank you letter to Colt 45 made up for him in another thread.
Strange that you don’t get sarcasm.
Strange that you see a guy who calls himself 'sarcasmic' making an obviously sarcastic comment and take it seriously.
Cite you understand sarcasm?
"I was being retarded on purpose, you haters"
It’s not sarcasm. You’re just an asshole. Then you play victim when Keile push back on your obnoxious hyperbolic bullshit.
Dropped the "mostly" and didn't even choose a better clip...
https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1617020906504609792?t=zxvqAyZB0bcfrQ8DcGj9qA&s=19
Six people were arrested after a peaceful protest over a proposed police training ground turned violent in Atlanta, police said.
[Video]
"The Georgia State Patrol trooper, who was wearing a bulletproof vest, was shot in the abdomen. The law enforcement officer is in stable condition and is recovering from surgery."
Unless the trooper was wearing a defective vest -- which has happened, bureaucrats can be incompetent or take bribes for accepting inferior products -- what the heck were these perps firing?!?
Blunt force trauma and broken ribs are not unheard of -- while the vest stops the bullet, its energy is still transferred to the person wearing it. But this sounds like the bullet *penetrated* the vest, which sounds to me like a high-powered hunting rifle, something that is both rather conspicuous and not easily hidden.
Conversely, there are "cop killer" bullets designed to penetrate kelvar -- they're illegal, but then so is shooting state troopers...
I think some questions need to be asked....
A lot of the vests only cover the vitals, as in the chest, leaving the cop's fat belly exposed.
Either penetrated the vest or hit him from the side.
The globalist storm troopers had a bunch of explosives, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of armor penetrating bullets though.
Cartridge, projectile, distance, angle and which vest.
The Black Talon “cop killer” bullets were media and ignorant politician hype.
The FN 5.7 had an AP load that, afaik, was never available to the general public.
Some level 3 body armor can stop the AR15 556 M193 load but not the green tip LAP M855, which requires level 3+.
Is Antifa really at it again? They seemed to have pretty much gone to ground once the Big Guy was sworn in. Now that he seems to be on the skids m, they’re back?
Interesno!
Merch sales were lagging.
One of them had been arrested the week prior on charges of domestic terrorism. He was out on bail.
Libs of TikTok
@libsoftiktok
CNN’s guest suggests we shouldn’t use the word “violent” to describe the Antifa riots in Atlanta tonight.
.
Antifa is currently destroying buildings and setting police cars on fire.
(Video)
https://mobile.twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1616994446352187394
The same assholes argue for 5 year sentences for non violent J6 grandmas.
I believe that those police cruisers have plastic gasoline tanks -- plastic tanks have become more common over the past decade or so because they are better able to survive a rear-end collision without rupturing.
But they will eventually melt, releasing upwards of 20 gallons of gasoline onto the pavement inside a second or two -- all of which will instantly ignite. As gasoline vapor is heavier than air, it will spread outwards as it ignites -- particularly as the vehicle is preventing it from going directly up as it burns.
It's only a matter of chance that we haven't had incinerated protesters -- yet....
The first night of George Floyd rioting in Minneapolis they set a convenience/liquor store on fire and burned a guy in there alive.
Don't know if he was a protester or just some unlucky passerby.
Skin color? Justice is based on skin color.
Color was black. Charred black. Oh. You mean original color?
Brian Kemp's Georgia
And the governor is in Davos getting his marching orders from the WEF.
School choice is bad for you, say the NEA and their partners, the KKK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Compulsory_Education_Act
Choice is only good when the right people make it for you.
Yep, there's no doubt about it. The Deep State and the oligarchy are sending a clear, unmistakable message to Sleepy Joe Biden. And that message is: "In case you didn't catch out drift the first time around, here it is again: you need to step down after one term and not run again."
Let's see if the creepy old man listens!
Yep, it sounds more like that every day. I am more curious about what the DNC will do about Harris.
Well, it's a bigger problem after the election.
The old plan was dump Biden after two years and a day to allow the anointed successor an extra two years. Then after Harris was sworn in, use the 25th to dump her, and speaker Pelosi takes over.
Small problem now, they have to figure out a way to stop Kween Kamala from giggling.
"The old plan was..."
Dang, that's impressive that you are privy to their plan.
Everyone is. You guys aren't exactly discreet, Mike.
Epsteined?
My favorite headline from this morning’s news: world’s worst McDonald’s closing:
https://www.indy100.com/news/mcdonalds-cloes-down-canada-2659290273
“It first gained notoriety in 2013 after a video was posted showing a man pulling a baby raccoon out of his sweater during a fight.”
I saw that. And I thought my McDonalds story was funny. I'm in line and the guy in front of me asks for a Whopper. The kid behind the counter says "Dude, this is McDonalds" and after a dramatic pause the guy runs to the door, slams into it, slams into the next door, and sprints across the parking lot. Everyone in the lobby busted out laughing.
Just terrible at comedy.
That’s just extremely odd.
I knew a guy who would answer the drive thru with "Hi, welcome to McDonalds. Can I dick your daughter please?"
If anyone caught on they didn't say anything.
That’s Beavis and Butthead “level genius.
WTF. JesseAz is ankle biting at your McDonald’s story.
Above I made an innocuous comment about school funding and he dropped a turd on it. I haven't read or replied to any of his posts in months, yet he feels the need to insult me at every turn.
Dude's obsessed.
Wrong again. So going with blind assumptions as usual. Good work buddy.
They're just happy for the attention, Jesse.
Your persecution complex is tiresome. Rallying White. Ike to your cause is not an accomplishment.
No. It is me pointing out his fake story isn't funny.
Why do you two clowns pontificate on replies? I know you're too scared to have your arguments destroyed so you hide. But this is just idiotic.
Maybe you had to be there.
Be in a fake story you made up?
I believe sarc ordered a Whopper at Mickey Ds.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1617177849747603457?t=5OUbXQC7W-Vyy4MMBP27lQ&s=19
At least 10 were killed in a mass shooting in Monterey Park, CA, at a dance venue. No information has been released about the wanted gunman, potential motive or victims. Without evidence, leftists are spreading claims that it was a white supremacist, right-wing shooting.
[Link]
https://twitter.com/TalbertSwan/status/1614309627465719809?t=TncHicAqTRbacQFGkXXLXA&s=19
A six year old white boy in Virginia packs his mother’s 9mm Taurus pistol in his backpack, goes to school, and intentionally shoots his teacher.
If he were Black, there would be demands for his parents to be arrested and various conversations about neglect and bad parenting.
[The "six year old white boy" is actually black]
The Clown World definitions of 'choice.'
1) Democrats: Vote for us and we'll let you keep some of our money.
2) Republicans: Vote for us and we'll let you keep some of our money.
What an irrelevant reply.
Either you misplaced your statement, or we have yet another fifty center trying to cover for the totalitarian left.
Version that I heard was that they searched his backpack for a gun -- and somehow didn't find it. HOW do you not find a gun in a backpack?
While I wouldn't do it -- too many weapons are so poorly maintained that they will discharge if you look at them funny -- merely shaking said backpack would have indicated that there was something suspicious in there....
And the version I heard is that they thought he had a gun, which is why they were searching the backpack. Well.....
The student had previously threatened to light the teacher on fire and watch her die. And somehow was still allowed to attend the school.
Many are blaming trump somehow.
It’s all they’ve got. I mean, look at Sarc.
white supremacist, right-wing shooting
Last press conference I saw, Monterey's chief said they were looking for an Asian suspect.
Domestic dispute between man and wife. Asian shooter. Memory holed event in 3... 2...
They'll still find a way to call it "white supremacy" somehow.
Off-white superiority.
I wonder when we’ll have democrats identifying inconveniently black people as ‘ white blacks’.
You mean like when they called Larry Elder the black face of white supremacy?
Can’t spell caucasian without asian.
Evidence is white privilege racism.
Just so long as the Government gets to channel everyone’s earnings huh?
Humorously; This is exactly how the game started.
The one, needed bill will remove all government funding from the education system. Your child, you pay the bill. This will clean up the current problems.
Except that retirements and old age expenses are financed on the future earning potential of said children. Collectively -- i.e. these children will be taxed to not only support their own parents, but those elders who didn't have children.
It didn't used to be that way -- a century ago, your children WERE your retirement plan (and legally required to support you) but unless we are willing to go back to that -- and also tell those without children to fend for themselves -- we have a real need to educate our children.
That was a hot mess trying to justify wealth redistribution.
a century ago, your children WERE your retirement plan (and legally required to support you)
Blatantly false.
Gung hay fat choy, y’all!
So, apparently, Reason won’t let me post that in Chinese characters.
And then when I typed in the Latin characters, iPhone spelling “correction” badly wanted to turn it into “F’ing hay fat chou!”
They won’t let me post in Cyrillic either, unless I sandwich a short phrase between a bunch of Roman script.
Here's my preferred school funding model: graduates pay for their schooling, as a percentage of earnings. Perhaps that might incentivize teachers in a good way.
I think Purdue does something similar.
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Yeah, and there was a story about a grad trying to get out of the deal, when engineering salaries suddenly took off 2 years ago. He had gotten a lower student loan rate, by agreeing to pay back a percentage of his income after graduation for a few years. He was expecting to make 60 or 70K after graduating, but got an offer for 100K.
Wouldn't he just pay the loan off quicker then?
Or are there loan terms that result in paying back more than the principal+interest?
What I heard about was a percentage of income over a period of time, as opposed to a fixed amount. Say 10% for 10 years. Year one make $50K, pay $5K. Next year get a raise, pay $5,500. You get the idea.
A major push by the General Assembly to make private schools an attainable option could indeed boost the state’s educational rankings. Of course, teachers unions have their own marching orders.
Clingers love nonsense-teaching, bigot-hugging schools.
Childhood indoctrination won't enable right-wingers to losing the culture war to their betters.
Superstition, bigotry, belligerent ignorance, and being on the wrong side of history have consequences, especially in modern, improving, liberal-libertarian America.
All that you said applies to the current public schools run by teachers' unions.
The best is when teachers unions open up charter schools to show how easy and unfair it is, then those charters fail in under 2 years.
Kirkland doesn’t really like “choice”.
How about this option: Close all the public schools and auction them off to the highest bidder. Repeal all the school taxes, so parents can afford to pay tuition at the private schools that pop up. Start a statewide charity for people who are concerned about educating the poor to fund scholarships for them.
Kids would do better because their parents would be more involved. No more political fights over what gets taught. Private schools trying to turn a profit would cut back on unneeded overhead and administrative positions. And the economy would benefit from people keeping more of their own money to spend, save and invest.
I was listening to an interview with a guy who had some interesting ideas. Gene Epstein is his name. I’d link it but it’s behind a Patreon paywall.
He’s not opposed to public schools, so long as they stick to the basics: literacy and numeracy. As in readin, ritin and rithmatic. That’s it. Don’t bore kids with history and civics. They don’t care. It’s a waste of time and money.
If they're intellectually curious then they can pursue further learning. If they're not, why force it down their throats? They're just going to forget it anyway.
Instead of continuing all this useless education, do away with child labor laws and let kids apprentice. Let them sweep floors until they learn the ropes.
I’m not 100% in agreement, but he has some good ideas.
Dude is in his 70s I believe. So he’s got a lot of work out there that I’m sure you could find if you’re interested.
Looks like Ron Klain heard the oligarchy's message loud and clear! A rat always knows when it's time to flee a sinking ship.
But who will pull the puppet strings?
Judge Grants Restraining Order Against Illinois "Assault Weapon" Ban
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/judge-grants-restraining-order-against-illinois-assault-weapon-ban
Governor Commodius Maximus of course, whined about that. Tried to claim the courts will back his fat ass up.
https://www.wandtv.com/news/effingham-county-judge-grants-temporary-restraining-order-against-the-assault-weapons-ban/article_b116fb4e-9915-11ed-b7f0-df0ba133c7b1.html
"I remain confident that the courts will uphold the constitutionality of Illinois’ law, which aligns with the eight other states with similar laws and was written in collaboration with lawmakers, advocates, and legal experts."
Want some brie with that whine, Dictator Pritzker?
He's not actually particularly bright. This thing is DOA in the federal court unless some lefty district court judge wants to get his ass kicked in the 7th circuit.
The Monterey Park shooter is described as an Asian male. There goes the “white supremacy” narrative out the window.
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1617210079731929089
I could be wrong, but I'm guessing Mx. "32 years Marine w/400 friends" isn't getting its panties in a bunch for this one:
https://twitter.com/CarpeDonktum/status/1617216564012482560?t=2y6vios6uYCVZcSTJE7xOg&s=19
My actual conversation with Buzzfeed
B: "We are publishing your real name in a story this week, and we did a background check on you"
Me: "and what did you find?"
B: "Nothing, but we are doing it anyway"
Me: "You know people are sending death threats to me right?"
B: "yes"
I flagged the MX troll. looked like a threat of violence to me.
https://twitter.com/DrewHLive/status/1616973628700229633?t=z7ixNRO0N2KfpfIe8-laVg&s=19
ANTIFA losers screaming and crying as they get mopped up by the police for rioting and vandalizing in Downtown Atlanta
They larp by saying “I CAN’T BREATHE”
[Video]
"Taxpayers are forced to foot the bill for the operation of government-run schools that school-aged children are required to attend. If parents don't want their children to go to the assigned school in their district, their options are to home-school or to pay for private school, but they are still taxed in either case."
Well yes but those of us without children or with children who have concluded taxpayer funded schooling still pay the same tax and have little if any say about how children are taught. Don't get me wrong, I have no desire to tell others how to educate their children but I also don't want to be forced to pay for something that is of minimal benefit to me.
Cue irrational rant that if we don't educate kids they'll become feral and we'll basically be living in a world akin to Lord of the Flies or about how I benefit from a "talented pool" of inexperienced workers or some other diatribe of how society benefits and I need to pay my "fair share" even though I've already graduated from private schools and paid my college loan debts and should agree to "forgive" the college loans of people who made poor choices or are lawyers/doctors with jobs that pay in one year what I earn in two if not three.
Cue irrational rant that if we don’t educate kids they’ll become feral and we’ll basically be living in a world akin to Lord of the Flies or about how I benefit from a “talented pool” of inexperienced workers…
I don’t see what’s irrational about claiming that you receive those benefits from public education even when you don’t need it for yourself or your kids.
You have a valid point about student loan forgiveness, though, and I say that as someone who would benefit a great deal from it.
Human beings educated their children for thousands of years before the establishment of government schools. There is no evidence that the current crop of illiterate graduates is a good investment. For anyone.
For most of history education meant learning your letters and numbers. After that you seek out an apprenticeship. Which is of course illegal because of compulsory education and child labor laws.
“Virginia currently spends around $5,000 per student on K-12 education.”
That’s what the State pays. Generally, that’s around 25-30% of total spending per student, with the counties making up the difference.
As a general rule schools are paid for by local property taxes. That's why rich people are cool with public schools. Theirs are well funded.
It varies among the states. In Florida, it is pretty close to an even split between state and local revenue. (Federal spending is around 8%, last time I looked it up.) Florida is a bit different than many other states, though, in that counties don't have as much control over their property tax rates for schools, and there are formulas that alter the amount from the state based on local cost of living. Oh, and each county is a whole school district, unlike in most states, so a wealthy area is paying property taxes for schools a dozen miles away in a poor neighborhood as well as their own.
There is still a lot of incentive to live in an area with good public schools though, as the funding may be equal to that in a poor area in the same county, but the affluent area has a lot more students with educated parents that pay attention to their kids schooling, can support them at home or with private tutoring, get them into summer programs that lessen the learning loss, and so on. (Even playing sports in the summer can help with that, as it is mainly about not being sedentary.) Of course, there is also the reduced stress on the children of not being in a high-crime area, having a access to a more balanced diet, being more likely to have two parents at home, having parents with job security and little difficulty paying bills...
All I'm saying is that rich neighborhoods have better schools because they pay more property taxes on their more expensive homes. Can we agree on that?
Well, rich neighborhoods or jurisdictions may spend more on schools, but that doesn’t mean they have better schools. Washington D.C. is usually in the top ten in total spending per pupil, and generally in the bottom 10% in outcomes.
Washington, D.C. is not one huge rich neighborhood. It has a poverty rate higher than the national average.
And yet, like Chicago, the dollars per student is high and the results are low.
Besides, it bears repeating where this money comes from. Taxpayers are forced to foot the bill for the operation of government-run schools that school-aged children are required to attend. If parents don't want their children to go to the assigned school in their district, their options are to home-school or to pay for private school, but they are still taxed in either case. Arizona's parents may have spent education funds on noneducation-related expenses, but there aren't many options for parents who don't want to send their kids to the single school their state has assigned to them.
I never find this kind of thought persuasive on school choice, because the amount of parents' taxes that go towards public schools is far less than the per pupil funding at their local schools, unless the parents are in the top few percent of the income and wealth distribution.
By the way, that $5000 figure that the author quotes from a short article at a local Virginia public radio's webpage certainly has to be only the portion paid by state government. Local governments must be paying most of the rest, because other sources show Virginia near the national average (federal K-12 spending is generally less than 10% of the total, though it can vary some by state). Census figures for 2020 put Virginia at $12,905 with the national average $13,494.
Anyone paying even $10,000 a year in state an local taxes is well above median income, and K-12 spending is around one fifth of total state and local government spending, nationwide. So really, someone would need to be paying over $50k in state and local taxes before they would be paying an amount towards K-12 education that would be equal to the per pupil amount for one child.
Now, children aren't always in school, so a parent will continue to pay state and local taxes toward education after their kids are adults, and they would have been paying them before they had kids or their kids weren't old enough to be in school yet. And, people that never have kids still pay taxes that go towards schools.
And that is the point here. Public schools are paid for by the whole of the public because it is a public good, not because people expect to get back in services what they paid in taxes. Some will, and some won't. Just like some people may go their whole lives without needing help from the fire department, police, or any number of other things that governments do.
I think this is what really bugs many libertarians and conservatives about public schools. It is "socialism" for everyone to pay taxes towards something that not everyone wants or needs, or when people have varying amounts of need. A family with 5 kids is going to get a lot more benefit from public funding of education than people that have small families or no kids.
It is “socialism” for everyone to pay taxes towards something that not everyone wants or needs, or when people have varying amounts of need.
While that is true, I rarely see that used as an argument against public funding of schools.
More often the criticism of public schools has to do with incentives. The current incentive structure rewards spending money on staff for the benefit of the staff.
The idea behind charter schools is to have the money follow the students, not the staff. Then parents will put their kids in the schools that do a good job, not the ones assigned by geography.
This will force schools to compete for students instead of administrators.
The idea behind charter schools is to have the money follow the students, not the staff. Then parents will put their kids in the schools that do a good job, not the ones assigned by geography.
Sure, that's the idea behind charter schools.*
*At least, as libertarians and conservatives imagine the idea of charter schools to be. I've read a bit about the history of charter schools, and they originally had a different idea in mind. That idea was to basically treat them as "laboratory schools," where the educators running them would have the freedom to innovate, rather than follow what every school in the state or district was doing. When they found things that worked well that might translate to all schools, they would share that those innovations widely. You don't have to take my word for this either.
https://www.incharters.org/history.php
I couldn't find an "about" or "who we are" link about the group that put up this website, but it seems to be something that advocates in favor of charter schools.
It was in the 90s, I think that the libertarian and conservative-minded saw charter schools as a way to implement "school choice" and bring free-market "competition" into education. Charter schools that compete with regular public schools don't have a lot of incentive to share innovations with those regular schools or other charters, though, do they?
As for schools being assigned by geography, why do public schools do that? For one thing, it is obviously going to be a lot less costly to provide transportation to students with compact school zones than if students could come from anywhere. Secondly, most states allow school districts to be pretty small. There are over 15,000 school districts in the U.S., compared to something just over 3,000 counties and county equivalents. I already mentioned that Florida is one of the few states where a county is a whole school district. Smaller school districts mean that they can serve more homogeneous populations. Which is great for the more affluent districts.
A system where geography doesn't matter at all, where any child could go to any school, sounds completely unmanageable. Many families would still be limited by transportation, the 'best' schools would need lotteries (which some charters in poor areas do use), and that would still leave kids "trapped" in "bad" schools. And on top of all of that, those with the money to send their kids to elite private schools that have virtually total freedom to reject students they don't want would still be able to opt out of the system entirely.
It is only faith in the free market that makes people think that charters and other school choice ideas will solve the problems with public education in poor, urban areas. In Florida, 408 charters schools that had opened since the first in 1996 had closed as of 2019. It currently has over 600. That means that about 40% of all charters that opened in Florida closed. What happens to the students when a school closes? Sometimes, they close in the middle of the school year because they were being so horribly managed.
"Public schools are paid for by the whole of the public because it is a public good"
There is zero evidence to support the claim that public schools are a public good. They have completely failed in imparting basic education. They are indoctrination camps designed to create generations that will be fully compliant with the regime de jure. The only beneficiaries are the adults that run the racket.
What about "education is a public good"?
Could you agree to that and then argue about how to define education?
Education might be a public good, but that doesn’t mean the government’s version of education is the best education.
As noted earlier, D.C. spends more on education per student than almost any other district, and has one of the worst outcomes. The only schools that rise above mediocre are charter schools, private schools, and the few public schools the city lavishes better teacher on, like the Duke Ellington School for the Performing Arts.
"I never find this kind of thought persuasive on school choice, because the amount of parents’ taxes that go towards public schools is far less than the per pupil funding at their local schools, unless the parents are in the top few percent of the income and wealth distribution."
So who makes up the difference between the "parents' taxes" and the per pupil funding? Would that be the taxpayers including the parents? It's pretty obvious that you showed up to schill for the teacher's unions and the rest of the grifters in the public school racket but JFC, do better.
Come to Illinois and say that anyone paying $10,000/year or more in taxes is well above average income. $10,000/year is typical here, and even poor people have to pay that crap.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/01/these-states-have-the-highest-and-lowest-tax-burdens.html
This article lists the tax burden in Illinois at 9.7% of personal income. (Total state and local taxes collected divided by total personal income of residents, I think.) If that is roughly accurate, then $10k/year in taxes would be for someone with $100k/year in income. And again, that would be all taxes, not just those that go toward public education. Median household income in Illinois is about $68k/year.
You do realize the burden is less downstate and much higher in Cook County and Chicago.
The problem of course is that the property tax is not calculated on income. I've lived in my house for over 30 years. Mortgage paid off. The only lien on my property is the perpetual property tax lien. I don't care what the value of my house is because it's not for sale. The property tax is my single largest expense. I'm of full retirement age but only semi retired. I'd like to be fully retired because my body is worn out from the work I've done for the last half century. But I'm still in the harness paying for other peoples pensions.
in a country where public school teachers have to pay out of pocket for school supplies the myth of Welfare Queen Unionized teachers has won-out, at least in historically-backward Virginia.
i wish you psychopathic, soulless, greedy glibertarian fucks zero luck in privatizing education in this country
Part time employees, some of whom sexually assault children, provide a similar level of education as homeschoolers but at 20 times the cost. Pay for your own kids’ education. Thanks.
But is that the funding of the schools, or where the money goes? Apparently, administrative salary costs in many systems are increasing at exponential rates, while teacher salaries and money for supplies languish.
https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/chart-of-the-day-administrative-bloat-in-us-public-schools/
Isn't it funny how the more powerful the teachers' unions became, the lower the percentage of the school funds going to the teachers and classrooms became?
Found the NEA shill.
Fuck off, slaver.
Hey everyone—check out that WHITE girl in the yellow shirt on the FAR RIGHT in the photo!!
YOU KNOW WHO ELSE SALUTED LIKE THAT???
(Op 1 to Base: I’ve successfully deflected the thread away from school choice. We’re back on narrative. Copy?)
Every American kid doing a flag salute up until we entered World War II.
Oh well. I guess we can’t unring that Bell, ami!
What about taxpayer that don’t have children? These taxpayers subsidize those families with kids but receive no benefit.
Why not offer “all” taxpayers a $5000 voucher, even taxpayers without kids to further their adult education also?
Or, for example, parents with children still receive a $5000 voucher, but after the child turns 18 years old parents can help fund college costs. After kids are out of college, the parents still get a voucher to further their own adult education - for the parents.
Otherwise, why not let parents pay their own way. If they have two kids, they pay an additional $10,000 more in taxes per year. 5 kids would result in $25,000 more in taxes each year. Adults without kids, no longer subsidize public education.
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