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Big Government

Gas Stoves May Soon Be Banned To Protect the Children

Federal regulators and lawmakers are pushing bans after a new study came out linking indoor gas stove usage to childhood asthma.

Liz Wolfe | 1.11.2023 10:45 AM

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two woman standing around a gas stove | Illustration: Lex Villena
(Illustration: Lex Villena)

In New York City, newly constructed buildings under seven stories are not allowed to have gas hookups for heating or stoves. In California, new gas hookups are banned or discouraged in more than four dozen cities. But the war on gas may be coming for all Americans' cooking appliances, as a federal agency considers a ban on gas stoves, which have been linked to childhood asthma and other respiratory problems.

The Consumer Product Safety Commission said this week that gas stoves, found in 35 percent to 40 percent of American homes and 76 percent of restaurants, release nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide at levels deemed unsafe by the Environmental Protection Agency and the World Health Organization. This comes on the heels of a new study, published just last month in The International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, linking indoor gas stove usage and increased risk of childhood asthma, attributing some 12.7 percent of childhood asthma cases to the appliances. (Some doubt has been cast on that specific study, though there is solid evidence that elevated nitrogen dioxide levels are linked to respiratory issues.) "Are gas stoves the new cigarettes?" asks a sensationalist Curbed headline.

"This is a hidden hazard," Richard Trumka Jr., an agency commissioner, told Bloomberg. "Any option is on the table. Products that can't be made safe can be banned." The agency indicated that public comment on new regulations may open in the coming months.

Over 40 million American households use gas stoves. This type of power should never have been given to unelected bureaucrats and it is time for it to end. https://t.co/ey1sYrDvX9

— Gary Palmer (@USRepGaryPalmer) January 9, 2023

Some lawmakers, like Sen. Cory Booker (D–N.J.) and Rep. Don Beyer (D–Va.), have pressured regulators to act, couching their concerns in the claim that gas stoves create a "cumulative burden" on black and Latino households already disproportionately harmed by air pollution. Other Democratic lawmakers, like New York Gov. Kathy Hochul, have proposed statewide bans on putting gas hookups in new buildings out of environmental concern.

All this ignores that gas stoves are popular precisely because they're superior to electric and induction. Most home chefs—and pretty much all professional chefs—will tell you that electric stoves take a long time to heat up and are far less responsive when changing heat levels. Induction stoves, which are actually quite fast to heat up, require different types of cookware and kitchen thermometers, in addition to being a lot more expensive than electric stoves. (Oddly, the Inflation Reduction Act, passed in 2022, included incentives for people to transition from gas to induction and electric—something that has literally nothing to do with inflation.)

There are a lot of other options that could work in lieu of a top-down ban. Lots of homes don't have any children in them and, thus, will not be implicated in the development of childhood asthma. Adults in those homes should decide what level of respiratory harm they're OK with (just as they do when they choose to smoke or to live in cities with a lot of air pollution like Los Angeles or New York). People could also use air filters or range hoods to improve indoor air quality and mitigate possible toxin exposure. Regulators could wait to see what positive changes market forces create all on their own, as induction technology improves and cheapens, given how popular it already is with cooks abroad.

Or, you know, people could always just assess the tradeoffs for themselves and decide what type of appliances they want based on their own personal risk tolerance, without a bureaucrat intervening.

UPDATE:

BREAKING: The chair of the Consumer Product Safety Commission says the agency has no plans to ban gas stoves after commissioner Richard Trumka's remarks ignited a political firestorm. pic.twitter.com/t18eRDlSdg

— Ari Natter (@AriNatter) January 11, 2023

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Liz Wolfe is an associate editor at Reason.

Big GovernmentRegulationPollutionClimate ChangeEnergy & EnvironmentFoodFood Freedom
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  1. Leizl   2 years ago

    Sure, people make their own decisions, except when they can't. Renters don't get to pick their own appliances.

    1. Longtobefree   2 years ago

      Back in the dark ages, when I rented, I only looked at apartments with gas cooking and heating.

      1. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago

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        2. Longtobefree   2 years ago

          Because they are noisy, smelly, expensive, and end up taking out student loans I will have to pay for.

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        3. Liberty Lover   2 years ago

          Why do you hate? You sure seem filled with it to make the assumptions you make.

      2. Gaear Grimsrud   2 years ago

        I grew up in a house with an electric stove. My first apartment had gas. I responded with a heartfelt "where have you been all my life you beautiful thing!" I've had a monogamous relationship with gas ever since. Yeah, some of those electric stoves are pretty sexy. But my eyes have never strayed.

        1. JohnZ   2 years ago

          After I left college I rented a small upstairs apartment with a gas cook stove. Unbeknownst to me it had a pilot light but I always used a match to light it. The land lady told me about the pilot light so the next time I used the stove I turned the knob for one of the burners and waited and waited until finally the pilot caught and nearly turned the kitchen into another Trinity test site.
          The mushroom of flames went clear to the ceiling. Or at the time it seemed to.

  2. Longtobefree   2 years ago

    "The Consumer Product Safety Commission said this week that gas stoves, found in 35 percent to 40 percent of American homes and 76 percent of restaurants, release nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide at levels deemed unsafe by the Environmental Protection Agency and the World Health Organization"

    So THAT explains all the deaths nationwide in homes designed for convenience and good cooking.
    I guess NY will also ban reporting on deaths caused by starvation or freezing.

    (just for the record, the WHO and the EPA are wrong about nearly everything)

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  3. Earth-based Human Skeptic   2 years ago (edited)

    Nanny staters gotta nanny.

    Of course, nannies also provide an attractive cover those those who have other totalitarian inclinations and goals.

    1. Longtobefree   2 years ago

      Nanny state is too kind; use the accurate economic system designator, fascist.
      Thanks

      1. Nemo Aequalis   2 years ago

        I wouldn't call them fascists. There are plenty of people who are proud to be called fascists, and none of them want anything to do with these clowns.

        1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

          Yeah, for your brand of Fascism, gas would go from prohibited to mandatory!

          Fuck Off, Witch-Burning Nazi!

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  4. Rossami   2 years ago

    "Some doubt" is a rather serious understatement. The study that is being cited is a near-classic example of junk science. Their methodology is at best questionable and their conclusions fly in the face of observed history.

    1. JimboJr   2 years ago

      they should do some climate research, sounds right up their alley

    2. Jerry B.   2 years ago

      But their conclusions fit the narrative, and that’s all that matters.

  5. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

    Just wait. They're coming for your hot water heater, furnace, and dryer next. Yes, for some of us, all of those run on natural gas.

    1. Unicorn Abattoir   2 years ago

      Probably coming for my Generac, too.

    2. Eeyore   2 years ago

      You are already required by law to use all electric water heaters and appliances in many California and Colorado counties. They have manged to take over the government machinery in charge of building codes. Look up the zero ready home initiative.

    3. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Sick burn.

    4. Its_Not_Inevitable   2 years ago

      Ann Arbor, MI is currently trying to ban gas utility hookups for any new construction and "substantially renovated or expanded buildings". Another Progressive Paradise dominated by a Liberal University.

      1. Longtobefree   2 years ago

        Look deeply enough and you will find driving a nail to hang a picture is a substantial renovation.

      2. JohnZ   2 years ago

        I live in northern Michigan and I consider any place near or around Detroit as a foreign country.

        1. Its_Not_Inevitable   2 years ago

          I envy you and look forward to my trips up north.

    5. mad.casual   2 years ago (edited)

      Cross-threaded rant: No need to ban them, just declare them all load bearing or just having mass and require a structural engineer to generate plans and a notarized drawing before you the homeowner a licensed and bonded, union HVAC tech, pipefitter, plumber, or all three is allowed to move, remove, or replace them. Duh.

      1. Eeyore   2 years ago

        Require a license to turn it on or off.

        1. Chumby   2 years ago

          That includes a background check by a yet to be created government agency.

    6. Outlaw Josey Wales   2 years ago

      Propane outside grills will follow. Because.

      1. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

        People bringing outdoor propane cookers indoors will follow, which really is unsafe.

        Also, electric stovetop elements take a long time to cool down versus natural gas ovens, so there will be more accidental child burns and adult burns.

        These bureaucrats are real brain surgeons! /Sarc

    7. cluskillz   2 years ago

      In California, the new building code will make gas appliances substantially more expensive, effectively banning them. All builders have converted all of what you listed to electric already to comply. Select markets will still get gas stoves, except where prohibited already by local ordinance.

      Stupid thing is, everyone was installing tankless water heaters, but technology for electric tankless water heaters aren't there yet for anything with more faucets than a tiny home, so everything is going back to ~50gal water heaters, constantly heating water 24/7.

  6. Jerry B.   2 years ago

    Amazing that, after well over a hundred years of gas stoves, this information comes to light right when governments and climate change frightmongers want to get rid of natural gas use.

    1. JimboJr   2 years ago

      And right as the more commie states start attempting gas bans.

      Very interesting indeed.

      They hate gas/propane/diesel etc because it gives control to the people. If you can store fuel in your garage/house, have a large propane tank etc, you are in control of your usage. If you are completely reliant on the electric grid, your usage is in their hands. And when it comes time that "we all need to pitch in to save the planet" they will have no problem cutting folks off.

      How much AC you use, how much heat, how many miles you drive your car, they are coming for all of it.

      1. Bill Dalasio   2 years ago

        How much AC you use, how much heat, how many miles you drive your car, they are coming for all of it.

        How about this. Let's go for a trial run? Let's say that air conditioning shall be banned in the Washington DC MSA and central heating shall be banned in the New York City MSA? And no executives get to leave either MSA.

        1. JimboJr   2 years ago

          they can use AC and heat, but AC only when its above 90, and heat only when its below 50.

          I mean its livable right?

          1. mad.casual   2 years ago

            The actual implementations are generally the opposite way: No AC above 85, no heat when it's below 40.

            Maximum conservation and no "ban" just a two-week* vacation on comfort.

            *Standard "with vs. of hypothermia/heat stroke" caveats still apply.

      2. Minadin   2 years ago

        My local electric utility wants to give me a discount to put in a 'smart' thermostat that reports to them and they can control.

  7. Chumby   2 years ago

    My initial take was that this is Biden trying to free up supply to ship gas to western Europe. Iirc, the first LNG tanker recently offloaded in Germany (?). Like charging many EVs to the same “at capacity” grid, somethings got to give.

    1. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

      Biden appointees should stick to stealing womens' luggage and wearing their underwear.

    2. TheReEncogitationer   2 years ago

      What's gotta give is that Europe and the U.S. have to revive horizontal fracking, Drill, Baby, Drill, start back building nuclear plants, and get out from under relying on Putin and OPEC for energy.

  8. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

    Biden Administration: "Fire bad! Arrgh!"

    1. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      Well, this is the party that nominated Lurch for the Senate.

  9. DarrenM   2 years ago

    "linking indoor gas stove usage to childhood asthma"

    You can "link" anything to anything if you design the study right.

    1. JimboJr   2 years ago

      I cant even remember all the bad/good things they have linked coffee to in my lifetime. Sometimes in completely opposite directions.

      But I absolutely dont trust them to do any studies when it falls squarely under their propaganda umbrella. Anything involving race, gender, climate, and now healthcare is suspect AF. They have been shown to be activists first, scientists never

    2. InsaneTrollLogic   2 years ago

      Precisely. We actually got taught that in a college statistics course, that it's not that you ask a question, it's how you ask that question. Of course, we were pushed back then to see how we could make everything more neutral and remove the bias. But, we were shown how bias can and does work.

      1. Jefferson's Ghost   2 years ago

        "Precisely. We actually got taught that in a college statistics course, that it’s not that you ask a question, it’s how you ask that question."

        Printed on the flyleaf of my statistics handbook for a college statistics course was something I have never forgotten:

        "There are Lies, Big Lies, and Statistics."

    3. Minadin   2 years ago

      It turns out that the particulates they were measuring, that are allegedly linked to asthma, also occur when you cook on electric and induction stovetops.

      They just were not measuring those.

      53 gas stoves measured in 1 California county = ban all gas appliances worldwide.

      1. Zeb   2 years ago

        That's what I suspected. It's not primarily from the gas, but from actual cooking.
        Recommending vent hoods for all kitchen ranges seems like a better plan.

        1. Minadin   2 years ago

          We already do that in new construction. It's not always possible in older buildings, or they end up putting something in that doesn't vent outside, but just very slightly filters the air above the stove.

          And that only almost works if you clean and change the filters regularly. And it doesn't work at all if people don't turn on the hoods while they are cooking.

          So, the new push is to make it so that when you turn the stove on, the hood gets turned on automatically. Which is easier to do with electric than gas.

          1. Zeb   2 years ago

            Yeah, the non-vented ones are fairly useless.
            Building codes are such a fucking racket.

            1. Minadin   2 years ago

              My favorite part is when I'm renovating an older (historic) apartment building, and it's government subsidized, so they require us to use only Energy-Star rated appliances. But, there's no way to vent the hood they require outdoors, and the indoor-only ones can't meet the Energy Star Standards.

              I know you're thinking - oh, because the air quality is not actually improved?

              And, that's a good guess, but you would be wrong - it's because of the noise. There's no way to push the fan noise outside so it all stays inside. And noise is a type of pollution.

              That's right, the government has written rules that say that I have to use a thing that they have written other rules to prevent from existing.

      2. cluskillz   2 years ago

        Where did you see that it also occurs when cooking on electric and induction? Just curious and would like to look into it more. Thanks.

        1. Minadin   2 years ago

          "But cooking produces emissions and harmful byproducts no matter what type of stove is used, according to the Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers"

          https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/01/10/gas-stove-ban-us/11022254002/

          “Ventilation is really where this discussion should be, rather than banning one particular type of technology,” Jill Notini, a vice president with the association told Bloomberg. “Banning one type of a cooking appliance is not going to address the concerns about overall indoor air quality. We may need some behavior change, we may need (people) to turn on their hoods when cooking.”

    4. Brett Bellmore   2 years ago

      Indeed, "linked to" is the weaselest of weasel words. In practice, all it means is that somebody suggested it.

    5. Pear Satirical   2 years ago

      Dihydrogen monoxide is linked with death, ban dihydrogen monoxide!

      1. Chumby   2 years ago

        White Mike refers to that as HO2

        1. Pear Satirical   2 years ago

          I was wondering who said that, thanks.

        2. MK Ultra   2 years ago

          Thank you. I was going to be deeply saddened if no one reminded the class of that hilarity.

    6. THX1138   2 years ago

      https://tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

  10. Unicorn Abattoir   2 years ago

    "Richard Trumka Jr."

    A fine, upstanding name. As much of a lefty asshole as his father.

    1. Dillinger   2 years ago

      somebody reproduced with Richard Trumka? ick

  11. Unicorn Abattoir   2 years ago

    I'm sure people with older homes that need to upgrade their electrical service will be thrilled.

    But since we're not building out grid capacity or production capacity, they should probably get used to eating cold food in the dark.

    1. JimboJr   2 years ago

      Especially in much colder areas, where the combination heat pump AC/heating units are significantly less efficient. We dont need out heat a ton, but man do the units struggle on the rare occasion we hit freezing temps.

      There are lots of places up north that would have to be completely redone, exchanging for a crappier system

      1. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

        Last year heard a talk given by a bureaucrat from the Ithaca, NY on their plan to elimate fossil fuels within their jurisdiction. They had not figured out how to handle residential, but when someone asked (it was a building engineering society meeting) if gas backup would br allowed, the answer was no. Just get low ambient heat pumps, which are more expensive. They do not recognize that reality may thwart their ideas.

        1. Zeb   2 years ago

          It's just retarded. Electricity is relatively expensive in the northeast. And most people heat with oil or propane (where there isn't a gas utility). And electric service often goes out in rural areas during winter storms.

          1. JimboJr   2 years ago

            We have some very nice neighbors who are gung ho on electric. Solar panels, all electric cars, all electric appliances etc. Which is fine, ill honestly get some panels some day.

            But its been dark and cold. We had a long outage during the recent freeze over the holidays.

            They were very happy we have a back-up whole house gas generator and a guest room, as their house got down to 45 degrees before the power came back on.

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            2. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              We had solar panels on our old house. While it’s undeniable that it was nice to have solar electricity and a reduced bill, what they don’t mention is that it makes it harder to maintain your roof. The panels trap leaves and debris.

            3. Zeb   2 years ago

              I was out of electricity for several days in December. Without a wood stove and a propane heater, my plumbing would have all frozen.
              I have a medium sized generator to run the well pump and stuff, but the fuel needed to run electric heat would be stupid.

          2. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

            The justification was New York has relatively cheap electricity due to hydropower and some nuclear (which he was not terribly thrilled about). How much grid capacity is actually available to go all electric was a thing not rwally talked about.

            1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              That requires math.

              1. Its_Not_Inevitable   2 years ago

                And honesty.

        2. Moonrocks   2 years ago

          They do not recognize that reality may thwart their ideas.

          Reality won't thwart shit. When people die due to these bureaucrats' decisions, it registers as a mere statistic to be disregarded.

  12. Eeyore   2 years ago

    The people with a hardon for an imaginary all electric utopia will cherry pick anything they can find to justify forcing their delusions onto society. They are the same mentally deficient fuckers who push masks and lock downs.

  13. JimboJr   2 years ago

    Remember, this is from the same kind of researcher that would suggest things like an experimental vaccine in children who have near zero risk from a virus because it fits their political ideology

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      I get that kids didn’t really need to be vaccinated, but that isn’t at the core of any political ideology. Ideology had no bearing.

      1. Ted AKA Teddy Salad, CIA/US Ballet Force   2 years ago

        Sure it did. It’s a sign of blind obedience. Your ideology is based on that. Blind obedience to your Marxist masters. And if they tell you to sacrifice your children, you will do it, enthusiastically. As it virtue signals to the other drones what a ‘good one’ you are.

      2. Libertariantranslator   2 years ago

        Anti-vaxxing is the core ideology underlying Mises caucus anarcofascism. What else have they got besides Spikey and Boothead, Shellshocked purple people and walking vote-repellent? Even Lenin clearly saw that anarchism is a communicable mental disease.

      3. JimboJr   2 years ago (edited)

        LOL, you trolling?

        Getting kids vaccinated, getting a booster despite already having a vaccine + covid, getting a vaccine at all as a low risk person, all of these things are in service to the ideology: Trust the experts. Trust the ‘science’.

        Edit: Its the modern version of the church's role in times past. Listen to these things we say, do what we tell you and dont question it. Questioning the silly shit we tell you to do makes you a heretic / apostate. Time has moved on, but people have not.

        Its blind obedience to what top men say. Its wearing a cloth mask to show you listen to ‘official guidance’ in the front door of a restaurant, having the hostess seat you, and taking it off breathing, coughing, and sneezing 3 feet away from some random couple because the top men say that is what the science supports, even if your lying eyes/ears/brain tell you its ridiculous.

        I would suggest you would have to be extremely thick to not make this connection, but everyone knows this is your schtick. Pretending to not know, and just asking questions or for a cite, when you know very well what they (and you) are doing.

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          It is the right who made a partisan thing out of “don’t listen to experts”. The deference to experts used to be mainstream, non-partisan attitude among both conservatives and liberals.

          It was never a core part of liberalism or progressivism any more than it was part of conservative ideology.

          And lay off the personal insults.

          1. JimboJr   2 years ago

            "It is the right who made a partisan thing out of “don’t listen to experts”

            They were harassed, stigmatized, and called racist granny killers for asking common sense questions that anyone with an IQ over 80 should have considered.

            And then it turns out that all the shit the 'experts' and the left were shitting on them for, they were right much more than wrong. Or were we all really equally at risk of catching monkey pox? CDC/WHO still hasnt walked that one back.

            When your position is "the experts say the sky is orange, and if you disagree with them, you are a bigoted science denying cretin who is stupid and wrong" and then the people who said "but its blue tho..." dont trust the experts, thats your fault, not theirs.

            Mike, its OK, we all see the emperor is naked, you can admit it too. The mass psychosis has passed for those willing to admit it

            1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

              “They were harassed, stigmatized, and called racist granny killers for asking common sense questions that anyone with an IQ over 80 should have considered.”

              Some on the right kept to those rational limits. Many others went into whacko, irrational, hyper-partisan territory.

              You aren’t even listening to what I’m actually saying. I never said we should listen to experts all the time or that the Left is correct about all scientific matters. I said that pushing conformance with experts has never been a particularly Left position.

              The Left are becoming more pro-expert because the Right are becoming more anti-expert. The Right are becoming more anti-expert because the Left are becoming more pro-expert. It’s just because they have to take opposite position on every topic under the sun, because stupid partisan sports. There is no deep roots of either position in Left or Right ideology.

              Despite your perception, this is not a case of “the Left started it”. This is a case of two stubborn stupid sports teams growing their opposition incrementally.

              Conservatives could have responded maturely and rationally to the criticisms you describe above. Instead
              they went for childish, petulant response and playing the victim.

  14. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

    Charlie Cooke has an excellent article/rant about this on National Review.

    As he writes, the only sensible response to this regulatory hubris is "Bugger Off!". Most any other response accepts the premise that the federal government has just authority to make these decisions. Trumka and his like must find some other way to feed their sanctimony and give their lives meaning rather than dictating to adults what risks are unacceptable.

  15. swillfredo pareto   2 years ago

    Products that can't be made safe can be banned.

    So if I understand the progressive argument correctly, the state has the moral authority to prevent adults from having a say in whether their children wish to mutilate themselves at the alter of gender dysmorphia, and the state has the moral authority to prevent adults without children from having a gas stove because of an alleged increase risk of childhood asthma to the children they don’t have.

    The Consumer Product Safety…the Environmental Protection Agency and the World Health Organization.

    Not a single one of those organizations is a credible authority on anything.

    1. Don't look at me!   2 years ago

      Products that can’t be made safe can be banned.

      Like guns?

      1. Rich   2 years ago

        Like swimming pools?

        1. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   2 years ago

          Like government!

          1. Eeyore   2 years ago

            So true.

      2. mad.casual   2 years ago

        Like abortion drugs.

        1. Chumby   2 years ago

          Might as well toss in coathangers

    2. Mickey Rat   2 years ago

      Which effectively means that a justification can be found to ban anything someone in government gets a bug up their arse about. Nothing is perfectly safe.

      1. Eeyore   2 years ago

        Might as well just mandate abortion. Life isn't safe.

    3. Moonrocks   2 years ago (edited)

      The Consumer Product Safety…the Environmental Protection Agency and the World Health Organization.

      So government organizations recommend that government organizations be given more money and power?

  16. A Thinking Mind   2 years ago

    I love how studies are conducted these days. They don't actually interview people or children to try to get a sample size and test the two variables. What they do is run a meta analysis of over 50 years' worth of previous studies and discard studies that don't fit certain criteria, and then attempt to test a hypothesis based on the data collected by previous studies.

    There's no attempt to examine the actual populations for validity, just completely trusting all the previous studies in their database, hoping they're not getting a tainted dataset. Then they run a statistical test on it and hunt for where the p-values are. It's not very scientific.

    1. Zeb   2 years ago

      Yeah, it's garbage. Advocacy, not science. It's important to remember that a majority of published scientific papers are demonstrably wrong/not repeatable.

      1. Eeyore   2 years ago

        It is even higher in medical and epidemiological studies, 80-90% of those are likely wrong.

  17. Dillinger   2 years ago

    my mother could never understand Kill the Poor was Dead Kennedys railing on the Ruling Class

  18. JimboJr   2 years ago

    Reminder:

    The CDC director and Fauci were actively pushing boosters, even on people who had the vaccine already and had COVID.

    These people also led us to believe that getting the vaccine would prevent getting/spreading COVID

    Even at what is supposed to be the most science-oriented public health organization, they completely based their advice on propaganda over actual science / common sense.

  19. Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf   2 years ago

    Surprised I am, to find such a nice call-out to liberty. Unusual, it is. Perhaps all our screaming and caterwauling has had some effect.

    Or, you know, people could always just assess the tradeoffs for themselves and decide what type of appliances they want based on their own personal risk tolerance, without a bureaucrat intervening.

  20. MWAocdoc   2 years ago (edited)

    Once again: correlation does not automatically imply causation. Epidemiology is hard, especially when you’re doing your research study with a research grant from a government agency that wants the study for the purpose of supporting new regulations it wants to impose and if you don’t come up with the conclusion they want they won’t accept your study, publish it or ever give you another research grant ever again! You might even lose your tenured professorship because your university wants to avoid ticking off government research funding agencies. Epidemiology is hard.

    1. Longtobefree   2 years ago

      These are the guys that see ice cream sales rise in the summer, and reported rapes rise in the summer, and can't decide to ban ice cream or summer.

      1. Eeyore   2 years ago

        You can go all the way back to the classics and blame the women who were raped for wearing shorts, because it was hot.

    2. MT-Man   2 years ago

      Sounds like keeping a moral compass is also hard.

  21. Cloudbuster   2 years ago

    A big clue that this was all bullcrap was when they floated the talking point that "gas stoves are as dangerous as second-hand smoke!"

    1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

      Where did they say that?

      1. Minadin   2 years ago

        "Are gas stoves the new cigarettes?" asks a sensationalist Curbed headline.

        It's in the article. With a link to the source.

        https://www.curbed.com/2023/01/ban-gas-stoves-natural-gas.html

      2. Outlaw Josey Wales   2 years ago

        Europe

        https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/01/09/exclusive-gas-cookers-as-toxic-as-second-hand-smoke-study-reveals

        More likely it is the ventilation that is the culprit.

        1. Mike Laursen   2 years ago

          Oh, OK. A rather wide definition of “They”.

  22. Liberty_Belle   2 years ago

    This *might* make sense for Commifornia , but not for the reasons stated. I'm looking at earthquakes causing gas leaks. But why would they force that on everyone else ? Are the politicians getting bored again and need something to do ?

  23. Jerryskids   2 years ago

    Next up, backup generators cause cancer so those will be outlawed. Gas stoves give you a way to cook and (somewhat) heat during a power outage. If people are all hooked up to the electrical grid, shutting off their electricity is a choke chain to keep them compliant with the social credit score regime. Why would they allow the peasantry access to a little freedom?

  24. Quo Usque Tandem   2 years ago

    Has a Democrat ever met a regulation they don't like?

    1. Longtobefree   2 years ago

      Yeah, political contribution controls, and voter identification rules.

  25. CE   2 years ago (edited)

    I suspect they are getting the causality wrong. Wealthier people tend to have gas stoves. Poorer people tend to have electric stoves. Wealthier people tend to have cleaner homes. Cleaner homes prevent children from developing normal, healthy immune systems. Kids living in cleaner homes are more likely to develop asthma.

    But that won't stop California from banning gas appliances in new construction, to save the planet.

    1. Eeyore   2 years ago

      Poor children are also more likely to have their asthma go undiagnosed.

  26. JohnZ   2 years ago

    This just in:
    The Biden administration has announced a crack down on people passing gas. These flatulent folks are digging their own graves spouted one official and Rachel Levine reminded everyone to think of the children. Cori Booker stated"passing gas is racist" and Justine Trudeau equated passing gas to racist, misogynist, transphobic and fascist. Joy Reid appeared on MSNBC wearing a blond long haired wig and sharply denounced gas passers as white supremacists.
    Al Sharpton is calling for more reparations.

    1. Outlaw Josey Wales   2 years ago

      Biden admin brings new meaning to the term MAID man.

    2. Fats of Fury   2 years ago

      Queen Consort Camilla has something to say about that.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWk4Wqy8ezc

  27. Truthteller1   2 years ago

    There is no "link". It's predetermined junk "science".

  28. Libertariantranslator   2 years ago

    May M3gan the last thing the girl-bullying gas-prohibitionists see...

  29. TJJ2000   2 years ago (edited)

    Can’t build a National Sozialsit(Nazi)-Empire without “Federal regulators”.

    It's for the children don't ya know!

  30. B G   2 years ago

    Do Viking, Wolf, or Thermador even make an electric cook-top?

    There's no chance that Booker isn't aware that anyone rich enough to have the choice (maybe exempting a handful of wealthy "actorvists" in Hollywood) go with gas stoves in their homes. How can he square that with the idea that the presence of that tech disproportionately endangers the poor, who pretty much have to accept whatever large appliances happen to be in whatever rental housing they can afford.

    Between running in elite circles in NJ and in DC, I'd be amazed if Corey Booker has eaten a dish which was cooked over electric-derived heat in the last 10, maybe even 20 years. Same for all the other "usual suspects" who push whatever half-wit schemes the "progressive" left will be lining up in lockstep behind this week, or next week, or the week after...

    1. Zeb   2 years ago

      Some nonsense about "cumulative burden", I think.

  31. ThomasD   2 years ago

    So when are the "libertarian" writers who voted for this statist clown car going to own up to it?

  32. Lester75   2 years ago

    This is over-reach but I can agree empirically with gas stoves creating small particulates which are bad for your lungs. I have an air-cleaner in my office, which is in the room over our kitchen. It helps with my allergies. The gas stove has a hood which is supposed to vent outdoors. However, if someone turns the kettle on to make tea downstairs, my air-cleaner starts cranking because the sensor detects particles.

    If I had small kids and had this information, I might go with an electric stove.

    1. Lester75   2 years ago

      Agree with those above that the particles for actual 'cooking' greatly exceed those from just turning on the gas. You need a really good vent hood.

  33. happy american   2 years ago

    As I write this it’s 41 degrees outside and I have five windows open to let in some fresh air before bedtime. When I cook I open the window in the kitchen winter and summer. Question do black and Latinos have windows ? I think so . I also assume they are just as smart as myself to open a window. Apparently the government doesn’t think they do.

    1. Chumby   2 years ago

      Companies make stove hoods. Other companies make carbon monoxide and gas detectors.

  34. Longtobefree   2 years ago

    "Local Man Claims Gas Stove Was Lost In Boating Accident"

    Stolen from a contributor headline at The Bee - - - - - - - -

  35. JasonT20   2 years ago

    People could also use air filters or range hoods to improve indoor air quality and mitigate possible toxin exposure.

    Sure, and poor people can use filters to get lead and other toxins out of their water, as well, right? Oh, wait, that isn't how filters work. You know, something about how anything dissolved in the water goes through the filter just like the water molecules. But, I suppose nitrogen dioxide molecules are somehow enough larger than oxygen and nitrogen molecules that make up 99% of the air? I mean, they have one extra atom, so they are 50% bigger!

    I'm not the first to note this, but people don't always have a lot of choice in the appliances in their homes. Renters are in a take-it-or-leave it situation when it comes to the appliances, and generally speaking, people that don't have a lot of income don't have a lot of choices on where to live. People also need to know about these things in order to make informed choices.

    The alleged harm of gas stoves is uncertain enough to hold off and study further before adding any regulations, and the article noted with an update that the agency has no immediate plans to do anything about gas stoves. This article is really quick to dismiss the claims of harm and say that the market can figure it out, though. If only the ideal free market that libertarians believe in was real, that might be good enough.

    1. Minadin   2 years ago

      They tested 53 gas stoves (and only gas stoves) in 1 county, in California, and it's a WEF-linked enviro-nazi group doing the testing.

  36. Liberty Lover   2 years ago (edited)

    No they won’t. The push back has been to great, the Biden administration is backing off on the lunacy.

    What is amazing is I have survived 67 years, am still cognitively fine (unlike Biden), still alive and have lived with gas stoves, gas hot water heaters, gas heat and at times gas fire places. I also worked gas fired power plants my half my adult life. Surprised I am still here according to the Biden Administration! (sarc – no I am not)

  37. Uomo Del Ghiaccio   2 years ago

    The real problem with electric ranges is that it is nearly impossible to control the heat.

    An electric range turns the heating element off and on in an attempt to keep a constant temperature, but in reality the temperature fluctuates.

    You can improve the situation by having pans with a thick bottom that retains heat, but you need to be careful if you need to simmer. If you need high temperature followed by a simmer it is impossible to reduce the temperature, so the best bet is to completely remove the pan from the range for a period of time.

    The other thought is that if everyone went completely electric, where is this electric power going to come from? There seems to be a complete disconnect in the amount of power this would require. I hear responses that we simply transfer power from one part of the country to another part of the country, but they are ignorant of the dissipation and loss when it is transferred long distances.

    If these people support local nuclear power then they would at least have a semblance of a valid argument, but entirely relying on wind and solar is sheer folly.

  38. Common Sense   2 years ago

    Does anyone else find it odd that this administration supports aborting children, and even denying medical care for children born despite a failed abortion, yet once born, they want to prohibit gas stoves because it harms children?

    1. Minadin   2 years ago

      Knowing what we know about them? No.

    2. Liberty Lover   2 years ago

      I don't find it odd as this administration is evil, authoritarian and repressive. If you look at it that way it all makes sense.

  39. QFive   2 years ago

    Banning gas completely ignores that cooking itself produces considerable airborne pollution. Frying Bacon on an induction stove produces vastly more harmful toxins than making scrambled eggs on a gas range.

    VENTILATION is critical for ALL cooking. They need to focus on proper ventilation and overall indoor air quality. With proper ventilation there is no air quality difference between gas, induction, electric or wood fire.

    1. Liberty Lover   2 years ago

      I agree, and inside home air quality has been a problem for awhile now. While I grew up in a home with a gas stove, gas heat and a gas hot water heater, no one in the home had problems. It was an older home and like all older homes not air tight.
      The current problems have been around for about twenty years. To reduce heating costs homes are now built very air tight. Yet homes all need a certain change over or air in a certain period of time, or health problems develop, including carbon monoxide poisoning. This is not new, but the governments interference is new, and had to do with their green agenda and trying to control every facet of our lives. The government is well aware of this air change. Fuck off Federal government.

      https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quality-iaq/how-much-ventilation-do-i-need-my-home-improve-indoor-air-quality
      Indoor Air Quality (IAQ) refers to the air quality within and around buildings and structures, especially as it relates to the health and comfort of building occupants. Increasing the amount of outdoor air coming into the building helps to control pollutant levels, odors, temperature, humidity and other factors that can impact the health and comfort of building occupants.

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