Colorado Voters Rejected Booze To-Go and Expanded Alcohol Delivery
Alcohol-related ballot measures were in play in several states last week. The results were lukewarm.

Colorado had three alcohol-related deregulatory measures on November's ballot. Two measures did not pass. Proposition 124 would have expanded the freedom for retail liquor store owners to own an unlimited number of licenses. State law currently caps that number at three. The measure, which would have been phased incrementally over the next 15 years, fell by a nearly 2-1 margin.
Strong opposition and Chicken Little-type pleas from owners of independent liquor stores helped kill the measure. "Colorado voters spoke loud and clear that they prefer locally owned stores who provide better service than out-of-state corporate interests who want to have absolute control over the Colorado market," Carolyn Joy, owner of Joy Wine and Spirits, said in a statement, the Denver Post reported.
Another failed Colorado measure, Prop. 126, would have expanded consumer choice by allowing licensed alcohol retailers to offer expanded alcohol delivery services or work with existing delivery services and would have made permanent to-go alcohol measures put in place during the Covid pandemic. As I've detailed, many states have moved to make permanent their own to-go cocktails laws. That's one reason Prop. 126's tight loss was a surprise—with one supporter of to-go booze saying they were "shocked" by the results. Polls released just a week before the election showed Prop. 126 was likely to pass. The Lamar Ledger called the vote "a surprising turnaround" for a ballot measure "that appeared destined to cruise to victory on Election Day."
Though votes are still being counted in Colorado's third ballot measure—Prop. 125—supporters said this week they had eked out a victory. The measure would allow any retailer licensed to sell beer to also sell wine. Supporters, led by grocers, painted the measure as what it is—a way for grocers to provide more choices to consumers.
"They want Starbucks, a deli, a COVID booster shot, organic produce and a specialty cheese section at the grocery store, along with beer and wine," Sheila MacDonald, of the group Wine in Grocery Stores, told Colorado Public Radio this week.
In Massachusetts, voters rejected a hodgepodge alcohol ballot measure that would have done a host of largely unrelated things—some good, others not so much. The measure, Question 3, would have gradually increased the number of licenses an alcohol retailer could hold. That's good. But it also would have prohibited consumers from using automated or self-checkout to purchase alcohol. Not so good.
Another key element of the measure would have changed state law to stop making it needlessly difficult for out-of-state drinkers to buy alcohol legally in the state. Under state law, a Massachusetts-issued driver's license is the only driver's license the state will accept as a form of identification to purchase alcohol. Question 3's defeat means, as WBUR reports, "out-of-state IDs still are no good for booze purchases." Most out-of-town sports fans will still have to carry and hand over a passport to buy a beer at Fenway Park.
Not all of the nation's alcohol-related ballot measures were statewide. In Atlanta, residents voted by a 4 to 1 margin to expand the hours for Sunday retail and restaurant sales of beer, wine, and liquor. Victory in an unrelated referendum in Snellville, an Atlanta suburb, will let package stores buy liquor licenses.
In addition to these various ballot measures, local governments have also been busy as ever regulating alcohol—with markedly different aims and results. The city council in Durham, North Carolina, just made it easier for residents to enjoy al fresco drinking. The unanimous vote comes a year after state lawmakers allowed cities and towns to create "social districts" exempt from general open-container laws. The Duke Chronicle reports that several North Carolina cities—including Charlotte, Greensboro, and Raleigh—have also voted to create these social districts, expanding the ability of state residents to enjoy drinking and walking at the same time. Marcella Middleton, a Durham resident, told the Chronicle that she understands concerns about potential challenges, such as public intoxication. Still, she supported the measure because, she says, "you gotta let people be grown."
The city council in Ft. Worth, Texas, would likely disagree with Middleton. This week, they adopted a ban on open containers in what North Carolina would call a "social district." So much for letting people be grown.
Recent alcohol-related ballot measures and local legislation are a classic mixed bag. The failure to loosen alcohol regulations in Colorado and Massachusetts—and backsliding in Texas—were countered by victories elsewhere in Colorado, Georgia, and North Carolina. Overall, the modesty of these reform proposals and their relative lack of success suggest states still have a long way to go in making alcohol sales easier and fairer for sellers and consumers alike.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
Most people like being told what to do.
And enough people like telling others what to do. Win-win!
Yeah, if I want the affordable alcoholic beverages and extensive selection of a national chain, the other voters in Colorado decided I'd rather have the high prices and poor selection and personal service of an independent booze store.
Remember, crony capitalism is good (if you have a friend who runs a neighborhood shop) and bad (if you have paranoid fantasies about some distant corporation).
To be fair, it's Colorado, where even the tiny independents have amazing (although limited) choices. But yeah, if I don't want to hit up half a dozen stores on the way home, BevMo is the place to go.
Total Wine and More.... always has what I'm looking for.
Although Grocery Outlet has some amazing discounts on good surplus wine.
Google paying a splendid earnings from domestic 6850USD a week, this is awesome a 12 months beyond i was laid-off in a totally horrible financial system. “w many thank you google every day for blessing the ones guidelines and presently it’s miles my responsibility to pay and percentage it with all and sundry ..
OPEN>>http://pay.hiring9.com
We just moved to Michigan because. Here, they sell liquor and wine at the grocery stores, and even gas stations. It's weird to me coming from Colorado. There are still independent liquor stores, and while reading the article I was wondering why/how. I haven't been here long enough to have investigated, but I suspect a less generic inventory might be the reason.
Michigan is a semi-liquor control state. The state has a monopoly on wholesale liquor, but not beer or wine. Hence, the price of hard liquor is the same everywhere in the state.
Speaking of that…..
Happy 80th birthday Joe Biden!!!!!!
The senile old pederast marks this milestone while his puppeteers plot more oppression of the masses.
Colorado’s relationship with concepts of individual autonomy and choice seems rather rocky.
Back when they ran for President, Daddy Bush and The Little Bush Boy gave a whole new meaning to "Head For The Mountains!" 🙂
So, a Blue Refugee Wave which must have already peaked but leading state voters down the slippery slope of expanded regulation with its mountains of red tape?
This was back in the day before there was "Red" and "Blue," even before they had refracted the visible light spectrum and when everybody looked like figures on the caves of Altamira. 😉
So it is becoming clear the DoJied about their writeup regarding Paul Pelosi, the report used by media to debunk the conspiracies. Likewise CBS suspended a reporter for telling the truth on air. Multille people who have seen the police bodycam footage have stated it shows Paul Pelosi open the door for police then head back before being attacked in front of police. The doj had this footage but simply lied on their report.
https://redstate.com/bonchie/2022/11/19/why-did-the-doj-lie-about-the-paul-pelosi-attack-n661241
Anyone who still denies the DOJ is just a special police force for the DNC is either stupid or lying.
You just described all democrats.
Come on. The only way to keep democracy safe is through propaganda and selective (and extra-judicial) law enforcement.
A few more revelations and it will turn out to have been a hamster fight.
BTW the Pelosi compound is now blurred out on streetview, making it much easier to find.
Move to the side street there. You can see the whole house easily.
When Nancy retires from leadership and spends more time at home, will Mr. Nancy have to curtail his, um, hobbies? Asking for a friend (who runs a service).
I’m confused. Isn’t Speaker Pelosi ‘Mr. Nancy’?
I think you're confused with American Gods. And Pelosi ain't no American god.
But you prefer her to Trump, right, Brandyshit?
Nice reference. 😀
She’s an un-American demon.
Where can I view the bodycam footage?
You can't. The SFPD has not released it yet. But local news and prosecutors have stated what was on the video.
Them hiding the footage is another outstanding question as to why.
Let's just say I'm 'conversationally acquainted' with both the CoP Scott and the DA Jenkins.
Watching the second presser and seeing them looking at each other every two or three words, rather than addressing the press pretty much gave it away; the body-language screamed 'this is the script'. Painful to watch.
What Conspiracy Theory are you trying to feed with this Paul Pelosi nontroversy?
I haven't visited wingnut.com recently. Let me know.
"Paul Pelosi nontroversy"
Horrific Slander
Republican Disinfo
It Doesn’t Matter <-- WE ARE HERE
This is Old News
Shut Up Racist
How about a reporter got suspended for telling the truth?
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Onlyfans?
I just can’t imagine caring about this to the point of cluttering up unrelated threads. Or really thinking of it at all.
Saturday and Sunday have so few posts by Reason, and no Mourning Lynx, that whatever shows up Saturday and Sunday becomes the defacto Mourning Lynx.
That’s assuming we even get a Sunday article. We haven’t for the last two Sundays. They might be saving their time and energy for another Super Duper Lost In Space Tuesday.
Though I missed the Sunay articles, I kinda liked the dump of space articles. It was intellectual roughage to keep us all what the old folks call "regular." 🙂
Sorry you are so inconvenienced. I'm sure your whining post will work out well for you.
Need moar internets censorship!
Not saying Balloon Maker is a White Mike sock, but he sounds like a White Mike sock.
Definitely prefers soy to meat.
Oh I’m pretty sure he enjoys a good meat sausage now and then.
"I just can’t imagine caring about this to the point of cluttering up unrelated threads. Or really thinking of it at all."
And yet, here you are doing exactly that! Me thinks thou doth protest too much; please take your virture-signalling elsewhere.
So why are you the one who’s so full of hot air? …… Oh.
It was only the basis of Biden's latest demonization of his political opponents.........
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/why-the-pelosi-story-matters
LOL an official news link to Biden's Philadelphia speech has now been marked private!!!!
Darlin' wife hypothesized that Nancy bailing out of center stage is an attempt to avoid answering some interesting questions; she may be on to something.
And JIC, here's a link to the Break "IN" glass (0;28 - unlike turd, I try to make sure the link doesn't make a mockery of the claim) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz7jmrgNXOc
Presser yesterday has GOP congress critter making no bones; 'The DOJ is politicized from the absolute top'.
The glass I could understand-glass doesn't always break predictably, perhaps your hammer or crowbar goes through and then pulls some of the glass outside. There's what looks like glass inside the door as well.
It's a much bigger issue if Paul opens the doors for police and then walks back inside before getting attacked. It raises lots more questions, and the fact that this was lied about also raises questions.
It was the basis for the renewed "MAGAS DO POLITICAL VIOLENCE" claims before the election. The bodycams (which people were asking for immediately) would have blown the entire narrative out of the water.
Perhaps there would hav been less scrutiny if everyone had gotten their bullshit stories straight up front.
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1594131768298315777?t=WqJzCSsf9cfQHz48se1O0w&s=19
The people have spoken.
Trump will be reinstated.
Vox Populi, Vox Dei.
Musk isn't "The People," nor do "The People" exist outside of individual members. Andcif "Trump will be reinstated" is true, that is yet one more reason why God does not exist, M'Lady.
Yes, democrats, low, loathsome beings that they are, cannot countenance anything greater than themselves.
The suspended NBC report had only one unnamed source. It shouldn’t have aired.
The NBC Bay Area report corroborated the NBC report, but also relied on one unnamed source. It might have been the same unnamed source. It probably shouldn’t have aired, either.
However, it’s still clear that the DOJ lied, as their information contradicts the SF police in the initial two news conferences.
That’s funny. These leftist propaganda news organizations regularly rely on single unnamed sources for their reports. NYT does it all the time, and for far more substantive stories. Of course, this involves the spouse of a senior State Party official.
The guy was literally just reading the police report. That's hardly an unnamed source.
Proposition 124 would have expanded the freedom for retail liquor store owners to own an unlimited number of licenses. State law currently caps that number at three.
limiting the number of licenses per liquor store by the government is ok but limiting the number of abortions per woman is not ok.
pass legislation limiting the number of abortions per woman or per abortion mill, and see how that goes over. Not even warm beer will subdue those murderers
but limiting the number of abortions per woman is not ok.
Herschel hit hardest.
He got Da Clinic on speed dial.
I didn't know you were pro-life, Shrike... or are you just concern trolling again?
It’s in his interest to prevent abortion. Murdering babies in the womb cuts down on his pool of potential victims.
Walker really does bother you, doesn’t he. Here’s to hoping he wins just to screw with your feelings.
The Dems didn't like Dr. Oz or Herschel, but at least they were both good at something once.
Well, they weren’t brain damaged layabouts who lived off a trust fund for their whole adult lives, but at least they did something.
What other forms of ID are allowed for buying booze in Mass.? Do they have non-resident non-driver IDs?
What about non-gender IDs?
I've never heard of this law. Last month I went to a concert across the street from Fenway, and the guy handing out wristbands didn't seem to care that my license is from ME, not MA.
Smart people go to NH to buy booze. Some items can be as much as 50% cheaper. Only difference being taxes. Which is why unmarked state troopers like to hang out in the parking lot and radio license plate numbers to their buddies across the border. Above a certain amount is considered smuggling for the purpose of avoiding taxes, and they don't like that.
Are you saying you don’t buy your booze in NH?
Buying liquor is definitely a subject where I believe Sarc speaks with authority.
Another reason for doing away with license plates.
Well, look at Mr. Libertarian here.
I know there's not many of us here.
I will also attest that I have bought beer at plenty of places in Mass, including Fenway, with a CT license. Actually I can’t remember if they’ve ever carded me at Fenway at all, so there’s that
Parody is obsolete: Exhibit #934
Just because you’re rich doesn’t give you a right to own and break whatever you want.
That's child-sized adult Robert Reich whining about Musk's Twitter takeover I assume. Even OBL couldn't be bothered to make a big deal about that.
#JustBuildYourOwnTwitter
Dude’s lost his damn mind.
Cite he ever had a mind?
Touché
He used to have a column in the Sunday SF Chron; every Sunday it was 'The rich are getting richer quicker than the poor are getting richer and we (the gov't) should do something!' using a different example.
When a private company suddenly becomes a public treasure.
Cbs news:
‘In light of the uncertainty around Twitter, and out of an abundance of caution, CBS News is pausing its activity on the social media site, as it continues to monitor the platform.’
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA
And........they're back.
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/long-national-nightmare-finally-over
After pausing for much of the weekend to assess the security concerns, CBS News and Stations is resuming its activity on Twitter as we continue to monitor the situation.
"Abundance of caution" is the 21st century version of FYTW.
Good. Hope they finally fail.
When a
private companyopen sewer suddenly becomes a public treasure.FTFY
Check with nardz; if it didn't exist, nardz likely wouldn't either.
Nardz and ENB: Separated At Birth? 🙂
Poor syphilitic sqrlvo
He's more of a child-sized adult-aged child, really. Has been since forever.
So the circle is complete at least.
'But, muh private companies!'
Build / buy your own Twitter.
Learn to code.
A child-sized, adult-aged, child-minded child, you know, like a little person version of Blaster from the Master-Blaster duo in Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome. 🙂
I would pay at least $20 to see Reich dressed up and perched on Fetterman's shoulders.
But that would be Blaster-Blaster, not Master-Blaster. 🙂
And I sure the report had the name of the officer who typed it up, so therefore it was named.they could run around DC together screaming about how they control Bartertown.
I’ll go in on that too.
Lefties are mad their little safe space has burst.
So Robert Reich owning it and breaking it would be better? Small wonder he's called Robert "The Fourth" Reich.
Communists always want the state to take over everything. For our own good.
Be fair. Democracy is too precious to let regular people use it.
He's citing Lilliputian law.
I actually spoke with someone who thought I could ‘really learn something about economics’ by listening to that little turd nugget’s podcasts. I loudly cackled and said something about learning mor from getting bashed in the head with a claw hammer.
Somehow he wasn’t as amused as I was.
Reich is a populist. Fatass Donnie is a populist.
They both convinced their respective audiences that the globalist bigshits are ripping them off and they deserve more.
Me? I am not a populist. I would say “Hey, you should be grateful that your GED unqualified ass is earning $50,000 per year and you would be living on a dirt floor if you were born in most other countries”,
No one would win a campaign with that message. So in step the con men like Reich and Fatass Donnie.
YER BRING RIPPED OFF BY THE DAVOS CROWD! say Reich and Donnie (really Bannon taught him).
You? You're a pedo.
A few years back you posted kiddy porn to this site, and your initial handle was banned. The link below details all the evidence surrounding that ban. A decent person would honor that ban and stay away from Reason. Instead you keep showing up, acting as if all people should just be ok with a kiddy-porn-posting asshole hanging around. Since I cannot get you to stay away, the only thing I can do is post this boilerplate.
https://reason.com/2022/08/06/biden-comforts-the-comfortable/?comments=true#comment-9635836
He's defending the Davos crowd? For real?
Maybe they’re promising him free kids to rape.
The best selection in the state is at a few of the super sized chain liquor stores. Limiting them to three means the closest good one is almost 2 hours of driving away. The 2 best stores are already at 3 locations each.
These entitled fkers that share the state with me just hate the environment. They want me to output tons if carbon to shop.
They can just send one of their Mexican slaves to the liquor store.
Where is my slave?
You can order them from Governor Abbott.
You're forgetting that exit polling showed that nearly 80% of Colorado voters were drunk off their asses on Election Day, which is entirely understandable and explains so much.
That's not entirely true. Some of them were high.
And next year: wasted on shrooms.
When I lived in CO there was a blue law that prohibited the sale of alcohol on Election Day.
When I lived in CO there was a cigarette smoking ban indoors, and a drought that 'made' them ban smoking outdoors as well.
But you could smoke marijuana anywhere you damned well pleased.
I was living in Boulder when they passed a smoking ban in the city. You could be charged with a misdemeanor for tobacco but marijuana was a petty offence. The restaurant where I worked was already non-smoking by choice. When customers could go anywhere without being exposed to smoke, they did. Within a couple months the place went out of business. Unintended consequences.
I was living in Grand Lake and couldn't smoke inside my apartment, on my own front porch, or in the parking lot, unless I was inside my car.
Unless it was weed, which apparently suddenly isn't the same fire hazard as a cigarette or a cigar or a pipe of tobacco.
Remember, government is what we do to "legally" fuck with people we don't like.
Government is also how we decide which ways of fucking with people are legal.
Convenient.
I have to admit a desire to turn the Democrat’s government overreach against them.
"Colorado voters spoke loud and clear that they prefer locally owned stores who provide better service than out-of-state corporate interests who want to have absolute control over the Colorado market," Carolyn Joy, owner of Joy Wine and Spirits, said in a statement, the Denver Post reported.
Shorter Carolyn Joy: "I hate competition."
If Coloradans think locally owned stores are better, then she has nothing to fear from "out-of-state corporate interests."
Let's face it: liquor licensing laws are a protectionist racket which creates extremely expensive barriers to entry, especially for "locally-owned" stores. Montana has the same regime and now has done so with marijuana-retail-licensing as well (no new licenses will be issued until after July 1, 2023* to anyone who did not have a medical-marijuana license on November 3, 2020).
*I've heard rumblings that this date may be extended, though I don't know by how much.
These people's philosophy is: "Buy Local Or Else!"
They want to go back to Feudal times when the peasants worked dawn to dusk and got all necessities in one spot in exchange for "protection."
Well they're out of their Mideaval minds!
As always, we should let (mandate) that people live the way they preach. Even if motivated by some delusion of a happy past where locals did all their shopping in corner stores, for the "good of the community", we should encourage some reality. After a couple of years, they can tell us how they like limited selections, high prices, even crummier retail jobs, and more incestuous merchant-government collusion. Oh, and no Amazon deliveries for these visionaries.
The funny thing is, their failure and hypocrisy is evident on it's face, so no force is required to make them practice what they preach, just showcase that failure and hypocrisy, then point and laugh. 🙂
How many of them use "locally-made" smartphones and smart pads to convey their message?
How many of them drink "locally-grown" coffee or eat "locally-grown" bananas?
How many of these locally-owned businesses offer wages and benefits packages to workers that match those of big chains?
Hell. a lot of these "Buy Local" pitchmen where I'm at in NC only open three or four days a week and for less than "banker's hours." when they are open. How can you be "The city by the Bay, the city that rocks, the city that never sleeps" with businesses like that?
It's a little bit more nuanced; there actually is a modicum of logic on the mom&pop side. A family owned business is open family hours; unless they have a lot of adult children or siblings, it's really hard on a family to keep the store open as much as the big chains. Even if mom&pop stores sold for the same price, customers go to the big chains because they are always open and have more selection.
I have sympathy for family-run stores. It's often the only choice for the low-educated. But I have more sympathy for customers, and the most sympathy for liberty.
Sure, I understand the sympathy angle. However, contrary to what many believe, liquor-licensing laws favor the wealthy and corporate interests over small-time entrepreneurs. Good luck getting an all-beverage license in Bozeman, Kalispell, Missoula, etc. for less than $300,000 (if one is even available), plus another $10,000-20,000 to hire a lawyer to navigate the application process and deal with the MDOJ/MDOR (the regulatory agencies in charge) and their arbitrary decision-making (e.g., MDOR once held up a deal by over a year because the seller owed back taxes - for whatever reason, it would not allow the seller to pay them with the buyer's funds at closing, even though the buyer was willing). Oh, and you're likely to have to pay rent to the seller for several months before getting temporary operating authority (and therefore revenue).
It's a racket.
I disagree about the education level of those who whine about retail choices. I will bet that most of the "buy local in a small shop" types are essentially over-educated posers, while the vast majority of high school drop outs prefer Walmart.
I worded that poorly. I mean for people with poor education, or the wrong kind of education, running a family store may be one of their best choices, as opposed to any kind of technical job.
How much will you bet? EVERY county in Colorado voted against 124 - from Denver/Boulder to their burbs to ski country to farm/ranch country. And the counties with the highest likelihood of being over-educated posers (Denver/Boulder and burbs - which are also the only counties with significant CA/NY/TX/IL migrants) were generally the counties with the highest support for the chain store, out of state shit. WalMart country voted overwhelmingly to NOT let WalMart take over their local liquor store.
"...WalMart country voted overwhelmingly to NOT let WalMart take over their local liquor store..."
Everybody voted to pay higher prices for exactly the same goods? Smells of the asshole chicken little's whines elsewhere; cite or STFU, pile of shit.
I, of course, don't knock Mom & Pop stores. When a specialty good isn't available in mega-marts or if I want discounted, closeout, clearance, or bent-and-dent merchsndise, I love a good Mom & Pop that provides it. What I am dead-set against is anyone limiting my options by law.
I worked in a mam-n-pop liquor store (not Colorado). Was open from noon to midnight.
Great. One anecdote is really helpful.
I want to use FTX as a morality story for elitism in general. It was a ponzi scheme relying on narrative and well though investors/celebrities like Kevin O'Leary. It never had any substance behind it. Anyone taking even a slight inspection of it could see the house of cards. Their own currency, their own investing in their own hedge fund, the tens of millions going to government.
Elitism is the same structure. You see it in government, media, and universities. Nothing of value, no great thoughts, no great accomplishments. But you buy into the machines of the elites, become part of them, give your praises to the likes of Schumer and Pelosi, then you get brought in and start forming your own multi layer chains of people below you. Not bringing them in based on accomplishments, but the belief if they follow you and bring others underneath they are also part of the elite.
Bankman-Fried on how he evaded scrutiny in an earlier conversation with a Vox reporter.
“You were really good at talking about ethics,” Piper said in a private message chat, “for someone who kind of saw it all as a game with winners and losers.”
.
“Ya,” Bankman-Fried wrote back, “Hehe. I had to be. It’s what reputations are made of, to some extent. I feel bad for those guys who get f***ed by it, by this dumb game we woke westerners play where we say all the right shibboleths and so everyone likes us.”
His parents were also well connected democrat lawyers that funded the party through PACs like Mind the Gap.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/conspicuous-silence-over-fallen-crypto-kings-democratic-ties
I sure hope the Clintons are among his angry former investors.
If they were he'll be known as Sam Bankman-Deep-Fried.
So I realize it's prejudicial, but I'm just saying that maybe giving a bunch of money to a dude named "Sam Bankman-Fraud" wasn't the best idea. I mean, it's right there on the tin.
Nice. Plus the guy is an absolute fruitcake.
Well, Bill was seen palling around with SBF. Make of that what you will.
Odds on "suicide" in his cell?
Arkancide
https://twitter.com/15poundstogo/status/1591988752574222337?t=eJKYxBtukd0ak9UOHnNYwA&s=19
Ooh. Sam Bankman Fried listed as a “Participant” in the September 2022 Clinton Foundation meeting. Isn’t that special?
[Link]
Oh, Sam Bankman-Fried was an “Effective Altruist” all right! He was “Effective” at getting suckers to sacrifice their economic self-interest to himself in the name of ESG/DIE/Get-Woke-Go-Broke bullshit. That’s the “Altruism” part, right? ????
Fortunately, he didn’t get a damn Cent from stingy, miserly, cussed, old-timey, Crypto-Scoffing, Gold-Buggering, Rugged Individualists like me who seek value-for-value exchange and Equal Opportunity merit and ability in all dealings! I's hep to him the whole damn time!
That’s how I do it and ‘Aye Void I like it! ????
All these people should be slaughtered outright.
I recognize your particular brand of sociopathology. A previous poster that went by "Shitlord" also had it.
You are either the Shitlord or his gay lover/murderer.
So says the sociopathic pedo himself.
Cough up your socks there, if you’re going to accuse someone else of sock puppetry.
I regenerated, and you’re still a child raping, kiddie porn loving pedophile who got banned here yet still slithers in to shitpost garbage.
So really, who’s the sociopath?
Is anyone else having trouble opening the Examiner article?
Loaded for me
Does this have to do with colonoscopies? 😉
Also he was apparently a big funder of media.
Rita Panahi
@RitaPanahi
·
Follow
So @SBF_FTX gave money to media outlets like Vox & The Intercept. He’s had glowing puff pieces in NYT, Fortune, Forbes, CNBC…
Writing big fat cheques to the Democrats buys a lot of glowing PR
The Intercept even begging for new donations after the collapse.
I listened to this yesterday while driving.
https://www.npr.org/2022/11/15/1137054976/sam-bankman-fried-ftx-crypto-alameda-research-bankruptcy
It was a pretty interesting dive into the FTX story with interviews from people close to the company's founder.
Oh, and the link isn't for you so please don't respond with some personal attack. It's for reasonable people who might be interested in more information, and who will judge the story on it's own merit instead of by the source.
How is NPR ‘reasonable’?
They push the narratives he likes.
To a steaming pile of lefty shit like sarc? Why bother asking. Try asking turd why he lies.
I’m skeptical he has access to a car. Maybe he was making ‘vroom vroom’ sounds while holding a pretend steering wheel and hallucinating driving his refrigerator box around town while in a drunken stupor.
The libertarian appeal of crypto was that it was beyond the grabby hands of government regulation and debasement. Very understandable no quesiton.
Now "libertarians" are whining about the fact FTX should have been more regulated to protect the people from scam artists.
Plus, conservatives are trying to tie crypto kings to Democrats and especially the little twerp that ran FTX.
Let the Buyer Beware saith the market.
Um, that twerp was the second largest donor to the Democratic Party this past election cycle. That’s a fact, Shitplug.
He donated to a lot of stuff. Click that link of mine and give it a listen. It's information. What's wrong with information?
I agree. You’re kind of an ass, but you’re right here.
Don’t sell him short. He’s a massive ass.
Money is an abstraction. Dollars are backed by the good faith of the Federal Reserve. This crap was backed by...? Buyer beware.
Unadulterated bullshit?
Plus, conservatives are trying to tie crypto kings to Democrats and especially the little twerp that ran FTX.
Well, that's not hard to do when they, you know... tied themselves to Democrats.
It is amazing how much shrike defends the left despite his desperate claims of not being a Democrat. Like many other fake centrists here.
Didn’t the fruitcake give a billion dollars to collective democrat candidates and PACs?
Democrat narratives are changing from Joe didn't know to Joe knew but it didn't effect his actions.
with Republicans already preparing to elevate the probe to Joe Biden although no evidence has publicly emerged that his decisions were affected by his son’s business dealings.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/16/democratic-strategists-launch-war-room-00065498
We don’t need evidence for a probe.
Wake us up when you have something more than "Big Guy 10%". Ratfuckers need more than that little bit of nothing.
Like a contract with a name and deliverable spelled out on it. You know - real evidence. Laptops contain stuff like that.
Big Guy 10% ?? I'm still laughing at that wingnut desperation.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a TDS-addled pile of shit, a kiddie diddler, and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Yeah, it is still at all damning when he claims he has no knowledge of his son’s business dealings, then video and audio surface that concretely contradicts that statement.
But hey, keep carrying water for these traitors. It’s what you do. That, and raping children.
"It happened but doesn't matter" <- YOU ARE HERE
At least it isn't Utah. State liquor stores, yuck.
Nobody needs seven kinds of IPAs.
True statement.
Or any IPAs sold cold.
IPA's are beers designed to be ruined on purpose, which makes them easy to make, and a lot of micro-breweries produce them for that reason. But it doesn't make them good.
American lager is probably the most difficult beer to make. There's so little flavor that there's no wiggle room for error. And it spoils too.
India Pale Ale was created to satiate the thirst of British soldiers in India. Problem was the normal ale wouldn't survive the journey around Africa. So they upped the alcohol and bitterness to preserve it. It had mostly faded out of existence until the homebrewing revolution. Then everyone made it because, like you said, it's got so much flavor that it's hard to fuck up.
My personal opinion of IPA is blech.
Nothing says good drinking like plastic jug Good Value vodka.
I didn't even know that existed. I'll pass. Sounds really gross. More for you I guess.
Really? It would probably help stretch that government check a little further into the month. And a dry drunk Sarc is even less pleasant than a drunken stupor Sarc.
100% correct history of IPA's
Double IPA is the way to go. A couple of those at lunch and you may as well take the afternoon off.
I'd rather have a doppelbock. Prefer malt over hops.
Same here in Montana.
I didn't know that about Montana. My opinion of the state just dropped a little bit.
Yeah, it's a shame, but alcohol is highly regulated here.
Utah is much worse than Montana. Utah only sells 3.2% beer outside of liquor stores, and there’s only about 40 liquor stores in the state. There’s barely any bars outside of SLC and some tourist spots.
How is that worse? In my state, stores refuse to keep the blood of virgins in stock for my bubble baths.
Some nonsense about health and safety. Just the way it is.
Wow. That is awful, though not surprising given the LDS influence.
Still, for all of Montana's self-ascribed freedom, you can't have booze delivered at home or stay at the local brewery past 9pm, but you can drink until 2am at the bar and drive yourself home with the beer and wine you bought at the grocery store. The legislature only just last year allowed for curbside and window pickup.
I guess we Californians can take some solace in that we aren't the only state where voters are allergic to freedom.
Of course, if a good portion of your electorate comes from California, there may be a reason for that....
Hey, quit sending us your excess population.
I'll be joining the exodous before long.... not going to Colorado though.
Strong opposition and Chicken Little-type pleas from owners of independent liquor stores helped kill the measure.
FFS. The supporters of 124 raised and spent $12.5 million - all from out-of-state - w emotional placards in every grocery store parking lot about the plight of big chain grocery stores (who sell very few Colorado brews inside that store because the big national chain brands of urine have bought that shelf space).
The opponents of 124 spent $225,000 dollars. Yes it was all at the independent liquor stores. Where they did not play Chicken Little but they had no problem finding a nice little local brew that you've never heard of that will be perfect for the BBQ this weekend.
It was a bit of surprise imo. I thought recently-moved CA/NY/IL/TX jackasses would vote stupid - government by ballot initiative funded from out-of-state. Turns out they didn't.
And just because the ballot proposition lost doesn't mean the law is frozen. Expanding from one to (soon) four was a recent legislative action. It will expand again - by a duly-elected legislature - not a carved-in-stone ballot initiative funded by out-of-state chain stores.
JFree citing a quote with Chicken Little in it. Hahaha ha. I can't. Too perfect.
Also, so "libertarian" in promoting restrictions on commerce to support his craft-beer fantasies.
If you aren't vaxxed he won't even allow you to purchase craft beer.
The other day I saw Fat Tire for sale in Maine.
It is available in all 50 states - plus Japan, Australia, Europe, etc. Produces 1 million+ barrels a year. The company is owned by an Australian subsidiary of Kirin which is in turn owned by Mitsubishi. It is the 8th biggest brewer in the US.
Maybe it was a craft beer 20 years ago. Like Coors was a craft beer 50 years ago.
Chicken little responding to lying pile of lefty shit! Bitch-fight!
I moved away from CO in the 90s. Fat Tire was pretty new at the time.
"FFS. The supporters of 124 raised and spent $12.5 million – all from out-of-state..."
OH! OH! OUT OF STATE!
Eat shit and die, chicken little slaver.
https://twitter.com/alec_sears/status/1593630915426541568?t=CxU2S7rGq97X4izbczAufg&s=19
This might be the weirdest FTX news so far:
Maxine Waters blew Sam Bankman-Fried a kiss after a Congressional hearing last year.
[Video]
But trust her when she says she is unbiased on the quickly forming house investigation sure to be done before it changes hands.
Sorry, but I don't want to see "Maxine Waters", "blew", and "kiss" in the same sentence.
Maxine Waters blew Sam Bankman-Fried.
More likely.
You had to put that image in my brain huh? Thanks a lot dude.
I’ll need therapy to overcome the impotence caused by that mental image. Complete boner kryptonite.
If twitter disappeared, would nardz do also?
Most out-of-town sports fans will still have to carry and hand over a passport...
I thought the Real Id compliant driver licenses were supposed to solve these problems.
That’s just for flying. We need more security to buy beer.
I go to concerts in Boston fairly often and nobody's ever questioned my ME license. This article is the first I've ever head of this law.
That still isn't in effect until May, 2023....and will almost certainly get extended again.
Can you imagine the delays and chaos at the airports when they finally do try to enforce the Real ID requirement for flying? Because probably 30 or 40 percent of the travelers will be caught unaware, even after years of warnings.
And clearly it's safe to let people fly without Real ID, since we've been doing it for decades.
Yes. There's no way that they're actually going to stop illegals from flying. Not a chance in the world.
It's totally not a national identity card.
Internal Passports will obviate all of this. The sooner the better.
#WhyPutOffTheInevitable
#JustGetItOverWith
Any why not a barcode or QR code tattooed on your wrist or forehead, so you never lose it?
As Beastly as that proposal sounds, there just might be a Revelation in there somewhere.
That's the six hundred and sixty sixth time you've said that.
I’ll Mark that down.
I'll pass that along to the Horsemen. All four.
National standards don't equal national ID. Just means you need to bring more papers to prove you're you when they issue it.
Real ID is a checklist, not a database.
Thanks for the reminder to never visit MassHOLEchusetts.
Walls closing in.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/ag-garland-name-special-counsel-investigate-trump
Just a few short days after Trump said during his 2024 campaign launch:
"Nothing is greater than the weaponization from the system, the FBI or the DOJ. We must conduct a top to bottom overhaul to clean out the festering rods and corruption of Washington, D.C."
The follow breaking news from the Wall Street Journal just hit:
“Attorney General Merrick Garland will appoint a special counsel to determine whether former President Donald Trump should face charges stemming from Justice Department probes, according to a person familiar with the matter.”
It seems Trump's warning from earlier in the week is about to come true:
"The journey ahead of us will not be easy," he continued.
"Anyone who truly seeks to take on this rigged and corrupt system will be faced with a storm of fire that only a few could understand."
Of course, this news came after federal officials decided to wait until after the midterms to leak information beneficial to Trump regarding the Mar-a-Lago raid.
The Washington Post reports on the review of the documents – purported by the Biden DOJ to be classified – by federal authorities:
That review has not found any apparent business advantage to the types of classified information in Trump’s possession, these people said. FBI interviews with witnesses so far, they said, also do not point to any nefarious effort by Trump to leverage, sell or use the government secrets. Instead, the former president seemed motivated by a more basic desire not to give up what he believed was his property, these people said.
Mike Davis ???????? @mrddmia · Follow In 2010, Obama Attorney General Eric Holder picked Jack Smith to run Public Integrity Section.
.
Smith took out VA Gov. Bob McDonnell as a potential Republican presidential candidate–on bogus corruption charges.
.
Supreme Court reversed, 9-0.
.
Now Smith is back–to take out Trump.
Great pick of counsel. 2 and 0 in prosecutors who had high profile convictions overturned 9-0 at the USSC. (Weismann being the one running the Mueller investigation)
“…Of course, this news came after federal officials decided to wait until after the midterms to leak information beneficial to Trump regarding the Mar-a-Lago raid…”
And Reason ran a critical article suggesting Trumps claims are bogus.
(but then it was authored by that steaming pile of TDS-addled shit Sullum, so...)
https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1594079457949761536?t=aY5DHFQMXjkvB36TZsqO-w&s=19
I was concerned that leftists use the word “fascist” without having any idea what it even means, but I can see now that I was wrong
[Link]
Surprising! I’ve been making 100 Dollars an hour since I started freelance on the Internet six months ago. I work long hours a day from home and do the basic work that I get from the business I met online. share this work for you opportunity This is definitely the best job I have ever done.
Go to this link.............>>> onlinecareer1
Damndest thing. Coloradans get to have a choice of weed, shrooms and mescaline, and can afford to tell the protoplasmic poison pushers to take a hike. Suddenly realization dawns that, with competition, caterers to juice freaks need to offer better service.
And you still can't smoke inside. Or outside, sometimes.
While the church lady with 7 "I voted" stickers on her chest looks over your shoulder.
Good. Fuck Glibertarians and fuck deregulation
Fuck deregulation?
'WE NEED MOAR LAWS!"
Fuck YOU, Karen.
If we drive a stick through the head Karen, do all the others change back to normal? Someone should start with Tipper Gore and see if that works.
Fuck off, slaver.
And make your family proud; die in a fire.
"fuck deregulation"
Who would actually even say this?
An evil person?
Does anyone else think that Klaus Schwab resembles the villain from Bill & Ted 2?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101452/characters/nm0000722?ref_=tt_cl_c_4
Chuck De Nomolos seems less cartoonish, tbqh.
The red state where I live has state liquor stores. There was little lockdown in our state, except for a lockdowns during the first few weeks of COVID surging.
It was peculiar the argument the state government for not locking down the liquor stores. It wasn’t “we need the revenue”, it wasn’t “we need to respect people’s freedom” — it was, “we can’t put alcoholics through withdrawal at a time like this.”
Didn't realize you left California for Utah.
One of the states with the most minimal covid measures. I assume your entire population is dead now?
Michigan wouldn't let you buy seeds for your vegetable garden, but lottery tickets were totally OK.
Everyone that had even the smallest amount of freedom is dead,
That’s a shaky rationale.
I was going to comment but had to withdraw.
Quitter.
‘Fuck the FBI’: MAGA Diehard Arrested For Execution Threat Over Trump ‘Slander’
“I’m not playing with the fucking FBI,” Williams allegedly said in the two-minute-eighteen-second video. “They’ve been put on fucking notice, if you step back foot on my fucking property, I ain’t gonna sit there and talk to you. I’m going to bust your fucking head open with fucking .308s, man. I’m going to kill every single one of you, stack you up in your cars, and drive you back to headquarters and finish the fucking job… They are absolutely out of control. Stand up to em, fight em, shoot em on sight.”
https://www.thedailybeast.com/maga-diehard-stephen-jike-williams-arrested-for-fbi-execution-threat-over-trump-slander?source=twitter&via=desktop
Williams, 42, is now charged with threatening to murder a federal law enforcement officer and transmission of interstate threats. The complaint against him, which was unsealed Friday in North Carolina federal court, says that Williams was incensed over, variously, the 2020 “stolen” election, vaccine mandates, his TikTok account getting suspended, and liberals pushing “anti-Trump propaganda.”
Williams’ court-appointed lawyer, Corey D. Buggs, did not respond to The Daily Beast’s request for comment.
Turns out to be yet another FBI plant in 3... 2... 1...
“Interstate transmission of a threat” is such bull.
That’s why folks don’t like the federal government. They enforce laws that anyone with a brain cell would realize is a violation of free speech. They invite disdain. They spit on liberty. They’re bad people.
It's creepy how much you celebrate a liberty-killing institution like the FBI.
We get it: TRUMPTRUMPTRUMP. It's why you violated your self-proclaimed principle of gridlock-above-all-else by voting for Warnock over Walker, right, Shrike?
Yup. Keep the same principal charge but flip the partisan slant of the suspect and the quoted media, and what (if anything) would SPB say?
Right. We can’t ever possibly see anything with a sense of balance.
Yes, there are well-documented cases of the FBI abusing its power. But, you know what, most of the time the FBI is doing its basic job, which is helping the state police agencies solve crimes.
Amazing the lies you tell yourself to justify leftist corruption
Yes we get it. DEFUND THE POLICE is stupid left-wing insanity. But DEFUND THE FBI is totes proper and correct.
It's different! The FBI picked on Donald Trump!
He wants to keep the FBI busy so they don’t have time to monitor his online chats with minors.
https://twitter.com/LPCO/status/1594074005572657152?t=drOqMGUhhh1GwuHuCAGtHw&s=19
1/n There seems to be a coordinated effort across corporate press, and even some in libertarian circles that are pushing very hard to frame @govofco as a Pro-Liberty governor. In the past few weeks he has been on @KennedyNation and @realtimers. Let's investigate that.
[Thread]
Yeah, Polis is no Libertarian, and I don't care how hard Nick G's dick gets for this guy (or ever).
He's a Democrat-Lite, which is better than a normal Democrat, and way better than a progressive one, but he's still a central-planning control freak who should be removed from the vicinity of the levers of power at the earliest possible time.
They push him so hard because (in their minds) they finally - finally! - found a Democrat who isn't totally totalitarian, and therefore a left-libertarian alliance still has a chance to form. If Polis is at best mediocre on even one issue near and dear to lefty libertarians, he gets a tongue bath.
Most of all, Polis fits the modern Democratic establishment ideal: rich (from tech), at least one non-cis, white, straight, male characteristic, and pro managed society visionary.
Reason can stroke Polis all they want but Colorado is just a less stupid California.
Slightly less stupid. The more California idiots that move there, the worse it will get.
Acknowledging he has some good aspects = “stroking” him. Got it.
There are some good aspects of other candidates that they never recognize and only attack the bad. Wonder what the difference in choice of what to focus on is...
"Wonder what the difference in choice of what to focus on is…"
Once again your argument is "So-and-so didn't say anything about such-and-such, that means......"
It would be so surprising to see you argue with what someone actually said, as opposed to filling in the blanks of what they didn't say.
He’s talking specifically about what Reason has said. Repeatedly. About Polis. Was. That. Slow. Enough. For. You?
This knee-jerk white knighting habit Sarcasmic has picked up is hilarious.
He sees Reasons and Chemleft as damsels in distress, waiting for him to ride in to the rescue.
Caw caw!
Dee!! You bitch!
Another Sunday, another day off for Reason. And not even a fluff piece about space men.
To spark a bit of free form discussion, bet's on Trump's first post on his reinstated Twitter account?
A link to truth social.
No idea, but the seething from progressives has already begun. For the record, I voted to reinstate Trump. Why? I don’t believe in banning anyone permanently unless they post stuff like CP, such as Buttplug has.
The coping and seething has been funnier to watch than much I’ve seen in a while.
A cashless business proposal for mirroring posts for anyone holding both Truth and Twitter accounts. Post on one, it appears on the other 30 minutes later.
Truth benefits by no longer being so isolated that customers avoid it.
Twitter benefits by expanding an olive branch to a conservative audience that had been abused by Twitter’s old regime.
I've seen hints elsewhere that there's been some news about the Dobbs leak, including hints of hints that it was Alito. But googling for "dobbs leak" finds news from a month or two ago.
Have I missed something?
Nothing within reach of your personal social-political score, at least according to Google.
Ex republican pastor who is now a progressive darling pastor claims alito told him the results of Hobby Lobby. No credibility. No evidence.
That's all in the last few days? If that's all it is, no wonder all I've seen is hints.
Thanks.
Yeah. Thats the story.
It's November 20, 2022, and America's so-called "president" is 80 years old, ROFLMAO.
You know who else had a birthday on the 20th?
It’s funny how I learned when his birthday was. I was moving out of my apartment in with my girlfriend, and someone had stuck posters to all the telephone and power and streetlight poles calling on protests for that day. I couldn’t tell what they were actually protesting. Seemed pointless to protest someone who had died so many years before.
I did wonder, later when we split up, if I should have taken it as an omen. Too late!
Yeah. It's pathetic.
Also pathetic is the tendency of some around here to diagnose people with TDS for observing that Trump is only a few years younger than Biden (and much fatter!) making Trump especially ill-suited to hammer Biden's age in 2024.
Arizona AG Launches Investigation Into Maricopa County 'Election Irregularities'
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/arizona-ag-launches-investigation-maricopa-county-election-irregularities
Wright also demanded that the evidence be turned over before the final vote certification which is due Nov. 28.
"These complaints go beyond pure speculation, but include first-hand witness accounts that raise concerns regarding Maricopa’s lawful compliance with Arizona election law," reads the letter. "Furthermore, statements made by both Chairman Gates and Recorder Richer, along with information Maricopa County released through official modes of communication appear to confirm potential statutory violations of title 16."
Among the potential legal violations are poll workers giving improper instructions to voters whose ballot tabulations were delayed by the issues.
"Maricopa County appears to have failed to adhere to the statutory guidelines in segregating, counting, tabulating, tallying, and transporting the ‘Door 3’ ballots," wrote Wright. "In fact, Maricopa County has admitted that in some voting locations, ‘Door 3’ non-tabulated ballots were commingled with tabulated ballots at the voting location.
"Further, we have received a sworn complaint from an election observer indicating that more than 1700 “Door 3” non-tabulated ballots from one voting location were placed in black duffle bags that were intended to be used for tabulated ballots."
Funny how those of us from Arizona who were commenting how weird this election was were attacked by desperate nothing to see here democrats like sarc.
The fact they combined box 3 with tabulated votes so there could be no audit trail is telling. That they are asking for full record counts of those who voted on site vs counted ballots is also telling.
I can't find a final count but it doesn't look like the .5 automatic recount has been triggered. Barely, but just enough. Again. But if your AG is serious, and he sounds serious, this may not be over.
There have been other areas of the country where ballots counted doesn’t equal voters who voted in person. This seems to be a system wide thing.
But by law box 3 ballots are separated to ensure integrity and keep track of the total number of votes there. Maricopa did not do this and would be in violation of the law.
But I don’t expect a serious investigation as it has to be done by the 28th. Another reason for the slow count by the way.
Every failed aspect of the election helped Hobbs. She is not a popular candidate. I know democrats that voted Lake. Her winning makes zero sense to the populace here.
"But by law box 3 ballots are separated to ensure integrity and keep track of the total number of votes there. Maricopa did not do this and would be in violation of the law."
Easy. Just toss all the votes from Maricopa county.
"They want Starbucks, a deli, a COVID booster shot, organic produce and a specialty cheese section at the grocery store, along with beer and wine," Sheila MacDonald, of the group Wine in Grocery Stores, told Colorado Public Radio this week.
Apparently, COVID Boosters are NOT what people want.
Silly. Americans can never know what they want, until government or media tells them.
Twitter reparations
https://www.flickr.com/photos/194775987@N02/52513160373/in/dateposted-public/
Thesis:
From a libertarian perspective, if you are in favor of legal restrictions on the free migration of people, then logically, you must also be in favor of legal restrictions on drugs. Because the arguments are largely the same either way.
"The problem of illegal immigration can be solved with more resources devoted to securing the border" - same with drugs, right? If the government only fought the drug war harder then they could finally "win", right?
"Illegal immigrants are a public burden, therefore ban them" - so are drug addicts, therefore, ban drugs, right?
"Illegal immigrants steal jobs" - a person who becomes addicted to drugs surely loses his/her job in short order, so if the goal is to keep more native-born Americans employed, then ban migration and ban drugs, right?
"Illegal immigrants destroy the character of the community that they move into" - so do drug addicts, so ban migration and ban drugs, right?
Furthermore, the libertarian arguments against the war on drugs are largely the same as those against the war on migration:
"These laws criminalize otherwise peaceful behavior" - check
"These laws wind up stealing more of our liberties in the name of fighting the war" - check
"These laws perversely enrich a criminal element (drug lords/coyotes) providing goods & services that free people want" - check
So if you think I'm wrong, then provide your libertarian argument in favor of criminalizing migration that is not also logically in favor of the drug war.
Thesis: If you're in favor of convicted serial killers voting while behind bars then logically you must oppose all age restrictions on voting. Because the arguments are largely the same either way.
"I'm not denying Edmund 'The Co-Ed Killer' Kemper is a human being living in the United States. I'm just saying I don't want him to have the same level of input into choosing our leaders as I do. Therefore he shouldn't get to vote." <--- jeff rejects this.
"I'm not denying 7-year-old Timmy across the street is a human being living in the United States. I'm just saying I don't want him to have the same level of input into choosing our leaders as I do. Therefore he shouldn't get to vote." <--- jeff must therefore also reject this.
Or maybe this principled libertarian thing is just an act and you're really a garden variety leftist who wants to do whatever will give Democrats more power. 🙂
BTW got any more links to brilliant essays about how DARK BRANDON will save us from LITERAL FASCISM?
Of course this is easily refuted: the right to vote is a civil right that is granted to all citizens of legal age. Edmund presumably is older than the legal age. 7-year-old Timmy is not. So the two situations are not comparable.
I’m just saying I don’t want him to have the same level of input into choosing our leaders as I do.
In what universe is that a libertarian argument against recognizing the right to vote for all citizens of legal age? Well of course you don’t *want* him to have the same level of input into choosing our leaders as you do. I don’t *want* it either. But the liberty that you or I *want* others to have is immaterial.
As I keep saying, Team Blue views liberty from a utilitarian perspective – we are only entitled to liberty insofar as the exercise of that liberty passes some cost-benefit analysis. So free speech is okay but “hate speech” is not because “hate speech” doesn’t pass the cost-benefit test. Team Red, on the other hand, views liberty from a moralistic perspective – we are only entitled to liberty insofar as we are morally worthy of exercising that liberty. So illegal immigrants, criminals, drug addicts, atheists, gays, foreigners, etc., are morally unworthy based on their own subjective criteria so Team Red is unwilling to stand up for their liberty as much as they are willing to stand up for the liberty of God Fearin’ Real Murican Patriots.
The argument that you are presenting is a right-wing justification for denying liberty to people that you deem unworthy.
Which just goes to show:
you’re really a garden variety leftist who wants to do whatever will give Democrats more power.
No, I’m actually a libertarian who doesn’t buy into Team Red narratives. You, however, are a Team Red/Team MAGA booster, but you are just too cowardly to say so outright. You aren’t stupid enough to repeat Team Red talking points verbatim, like Jesse and ML; instead, you shill for Team Red by shitting on everyone who opposes them. You understand that Trump is a horrible human being and the MAGA movement is full of paranoid crank cultists that are beyond defensible, so you don’t bother; instead, you’ll try to drag everyone else down even further into the mud so Trump looks the least bad by comparison. I mean, Trump pushing stolen election lies which inspired a riot at the Capitol seems pretty bad, but if you compare that to, say, Charles Koch making money by literally profiteering off of illegal labor – which is what you continually claim – it doesn’t sound so bad, does it? That is your strategy. You are too cowardly to outright say you are on Team MAGA. Your role here is just to shit on everyone who opposes Team MAGA. Because you are unwilling to forthrightly stand up for what you actually believe.
"Team MAGA booster"
I guess you haven't seen many of my posts since I dropped character. I've said more than once that if Republicans are dumb enough to nominate Trump in 2024, they deserve to lose. I keep pointing out reasons why he's a terrible candidate, much weaker in 2024 than in 2016. Such as...
1. He was already on the verge of "too old" in 2016, and in 2024 is clearly too old. (Scroll up for one of the many times I've said this.)
2. His 2016 victory was largely the result of getting historically awful Hillary Clinton as his opponent.
3. He has already lost to Biden once, and a rematch would probably go the same way.
4. His pathetic sore loser routine since November 2020 certainly costs him more support than it gains.
5. Democrats enjoy running against "Trumpy" GOP candidates (confirmed by this year's midterms) and Republicans would be stupid to follow the approach their opponents want them to follow.
6. Having failed to "build the wall" or "drain the swamp" in his first 4 years, any promises for an additional 4 years are that much less believable.
Don't feel bad though. You're not the only person to misinterpret the OBL gimmick. I figured some commenters would assume the person behind the account had to be a Trump voter. But that was never the case. The point was to ridicule #Resistance idiots and the insane things they believed ("Trump's Presidency will end when Mueller leads him out of the White House in handcuffs") when there was usually a more rational view ("Trump's Presidency will end when he has to run against a Democrat not named Hillary Clinton").
I haven't voted since my 3rd party throwaway protest vote in 2016 BTW. A useless gesture that I only made to go on record stating Trump and Clinton were abysmal choices.
But you are making my point for me. I very deliberately did not say you were a Trump cultist. Because you're not. Instead, you are shilling for Team Red by shitting on everyone who is opposing Team Red. You're clearly on Team Red but you are just too cowardly to say so outright.
You're just playing dumb now.
You said I was a "Team MAGA booster." It's impossible to reconcile that label with the fact that Trump (and Clinton) being so terrible inspired me to vote 3rd party in 2016 when I normally don't vote at all.
Then again I am talking to a guy who thinks smart political commentary includes stuff like this: "We are now in what you might call the cresting phase of a fascist super-cycle. Fascism is now rising across the West ... If America’s very, very lucky — and if Joe Biden, and his alter ego, Dark Brandon, are incredibly adept, perhaps America retains some semblance of democracy." Which is exactly the type of laughable #Resistance hysteria I was mocking with my silly parody account.
Chemleft only has one trick. If he can't accuse you of being MAGA his argument starts to crumble.
I've been out of character for about 2 weeks and already I've been accused of being a Team MAGA booster and a TDS patient. 🙂
#IContainMultitudes
You're a miracle of nature.
You are now. Maybe you weren't in 2016, but you are now. You're demonstrating it now when you mock and shit on everyone who opposes Team MAGA. This is beyond mocking the #Resistance. Since when is claiming that Charles Koch is profiteering off of illegal labor mocking #Resistance? Hmm? Did you forget all the times when OBL breathlessly reported how much Charles Koch's net worth had risen under Joe Biden? How was that "mocking the #Resistance"?
If I'm wrong, then stop being a coward hiding behind your mockery and state plainly what you stand for.
Holy crap, you could not be any dumber.
I've got an easier proof:
Prohibition is prohibition.
Q.E.D.
Something that seems odd to me is that the people who favor the death penalty tend to oppose abortion, and those who oppose the death penalty tend to favor abortion.
It would make more sense to support both or oppose both.
"Death penalty is murder! We need abortion on demand!"
"Abortion is murder! Execute that motherfucker!"
Just doesn't seem logically consistent.
Of course not, they are positions based on emotions.
That's the first time in a while where I've read one of your comments and not thought you were a moron or a douchebag.
the people who favor the death penalty tend to oppose abortion
It is not odd if you view liberty from the Team Red perspective. To Team Red, only those who are morally worthy should be granted the privilege of liberty. Innocent unborn babies are morally worthy, so they get liberty. Convicted criminals are morally unworthy, so they don't get liberty.
those who oppose the death penalty tend to favor abortion.
Again it is not odd if you view liberty from the Team Blue perspective. To Team Blue, liberty is only justified if it passes a cost-benefit analysis. Recognizing the liberty of a woman to abort her pregnancy is justified, because the cost of all those unwanted babies is too high. Opposing the death penalty is justified because the cost associated with the risk of executing an innocent person is too high.
Convicted criminals are morally unworthy, so they don’t get liberty.
I see you have never been the victim of a terrible crime. Lucky you.
You keep making the case better than I could that you are just a bunch of right-wingers who view liberty from a right-wing perspective and not from a libertarian perspective.
"Morally unworthy" is not the same as "does not deserve liberty". Because liberty is an inalienable birthright of all human beings. Do you understand that?
This will come as a shock to you, but it's possible to observe and understand other points of view without agreeing with them.
Tiny minds limit themselves to the point of view of their tribe while treating the act of understanding another point of view as sympathizing with the enemy.
Pro-abortion people seem to think this is really profound, but somehow they miss that the dealt penalty is applied to murderers who have been found guilty in a court of law and have had several appeals.
Pro-life people value life, and that includes taking the life of murderers
“Pro-life people value life, and that includes taking the life of murderers”
That is plainly self contradictory. If what you say is true, then pro-life people value certain lives but do not unconditionally “value life”.
From a libertarian perspective, if you are in favor of legal restrictions on the free migration of bears in trunks, then logically, you must also be in favor of legal restrictions on treating the unvaxxed. Because the arguments are largely the same either way.
Bears in trunks should have the same bear God given rights as any American.
Of course you cannot argue against the analogy. All you can do is mock it. Because you do not have an argument against it.
The entire point of that analogy was to make the point that if you have an unwanted guest that is causing harm to innocent people, what are your obligations to deal with the guest? In this case, the “guest” is a virus. The libertarians around here who are most opposed to public health measures want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that there is no such thing as negligence. Well, negligence is a thing, and libertarians cannot ignore it.
In my view, if you are sick, and you know you are sick, and you go out in public and spread the illness to someone else, you ought to bear some culpability for that. It would be no different than if you were to open a restaurant and serve undercooked food on dirty dishes, and the customers got sick as a result. You did not deliberately commit an act of aggression against your customers, but you were negligent in that you should have known better that your actions were likely to cause others to be harmed.
Every single one of you mocking me for the bears in trunk analogy has no response to this, because you want to pretend that negligence doesn’t exist.
No, you make terrible analogies and invite mocking.
So go ahead. Make the libertarian case for why negligence shouldn't be a thing.
Why are the vaccine manufacturers exempt from liability laws?
Why don’t you answer the question that I posed?
Because you can't. Because you're a coward.
Why do you want to free criminals but punish the unvaxxed?
Why do you murder babies and drink their blood?
You're accusing DLAM of being pro-choice?
Why are the vaccine manufacturers exempt from liability laws?
Do you realize that the COVID vaccine was produced in days? Seriously. It took them just three days to make it. And the stuff they’re poking people with is the same damn thing that took three days to make.
All the time in between creation and rollout was CYA (Cover Your Ass). Exempting them from liability sped up that process.
This is a bit humorous to me. No principles from conservatives here. In every other case they blame the FDA for delaying medicine and letting people die, but when they speed things up the very same people cry “Experimental drugs!”
Why? Politics. Principle shminciples.
Sounds like negligence.
You’ve been obliged on this subject literally over a hundred times now and from dozens of the commentariat here. That you’ve memory holed this doesn’t make it less true. No one owes it you to continually oblige the aforementioned discredited ramblings.
So you are arguing against the concept of negligence itself? That's original.
I think your analogy is not worth defending.
Okay, why?
Nope. The concept of nationhood requires some definition of borders, and some restriction of access, either physically or in legal status, like citizenship. Libertarians can certainly define and support nationhood without banning use or possession of physical substances.
Migration is not the same as naturalization.
There is no contradiction in supporting free migration but restrictive conditions for naturalization.
Smuggling and controlling illegal crossings is not equivalent to banning specific substances outright you disingenuous, discredited shitweasel.
You have failed to make any logical argument while at the same time engaged in gratuitous insults. Congratulations, you earned zero points.
Do you actually believe that nobody can read what Ted wrote, and will fall for your garbage?
World’s longest-ruling leader seeks to extend his 43-year grip on power
https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/worlds-longest-standing-president-seeks-extend-43-year-rule-2022-11-20/
And why not? Think of all the expertise he must have accumulated in all those years! Heck, I’d vote for him—but then I’m a Californian, so….
"What you sow is what you reap," said Obiang, 80, who has regularly won more than 90 percent of the vote in elections conducted over the course of five terms since he seized power from his uncle in a coup in 1979.
"I am sure that the victory is for PDGE," he said, referring to his party.
"It is a total fraud," Esono Ondo told Reuters by phone, saying his party would challenge the result in court.
Sheesh! Election deniers everywhere.
Yes, the second quote is clearly from one of those Make Africa Great Again deplorables!
He must be doing a good job, the place is booming!
The Reason staff apparently took the day off to celebrate the birthday of their beloved Octoprez!
They've been lying about The Science all this time?
Shocking!
https://www.theblaze.com/news/new-study-meat-healthy-risks
Gotta spin the Wheel Of Outrage to keep the plebes in line:
https://twitter.com/RonnyJacksonTX/status/1594448804312645632
You see, Biden is a tyrant who would abolish Congress and SCOTUS and rule by unlimited decree and would throw every MAGA Patriot into the gulags.
It's not true, just like it's not true that Trump is a tyrant who would throw Democrats into gulags. But you have to keep the Real Murican Patriots riled up into a state of continuous outrage in order to keep them voting for you.
You seem outraged.
You seem to be a troll accusing people of things you know aren't true so you can elicit a reaction.
I learned it from you, ok?
You’re always white knighting for the shitbags around here. Like you and your pedo pal Shrike.
Pretty gutsy for you of all people to call others "trolls", Sarckles.
Surprising! I’ve been making 100 Dollars an hour since I started freelance on the Internet six months ago. I work long hours a day from home and do the basic work that I get from the business I met online. share this work for you opportunity This is definitely the best job I have ever done.
Go to this link.............>>> onlinecareer1
Watch the syntax! "Expanded" can be both a transitive verb and a past participle.
I get paid over 190$ per hour working from home with 2 kids at home. I never thought I’d be able to do it but my best friend earns over 10k a month doing this and she convinced me to try. The potential with this is endless. Heres what I’ve been doing..
HERE====)> http://WWW.RICHSALARIES.COM