Americans Oppose Big Government, Unless Their Party Is in Power
Supporting restraints on government only for your opponents is a recipe for continued conflict.

Even as both major political parties commit themselves to ambitious programs of spending, shaping society through legislation, and punishing anybody who looks at them cross-eyed, the American people continue to believe the government is too powerful and does too much.
The catch is that people are most committed to smaller, restrained government when their favored party is out of power. That may be because they think their preferred policies are so wonderful that anything justifies their implementation, but the evidence suggests that it's really hatred of opponents throwing not only commitment to smaller government, but even liberal-democratic norms, out the window.
"A 54 percent majority of Americans say the federal government has too much power, while 39 percent say it has about the right amount of power and 6 percent say too little," Gallup reported last week. "These figures have generally been stable throughout the Donald Trump and Joe Biden presidential administrations. Since 2005, no less than 50 percent of Americans have said they believe the federal government is too powerful, with some of those readings reaching 60 percent."
Americans are pretty clear in what they mean by "too much power," too. They want a government that plays less of a role in people's lives.
"When asked how active the government should be in addressing the nation's problems, 53 percent say it is doing too many things that should be left to individuals and businesses, while 43 percent believe the government should be doing more to solve problems," Gallup added.
The catch is that "Republicans and Democrats are more inclined to say the government has too much power when the president is from the other party, and less inclined when a president from their own party is in the White House." For more than a decade, Republicans have said that government has too much power, but the intensity of their feelings fluctuates depending on whether they hold the White House. Democrats also vary in their feelings, though they tend to believe the government is too powerful only when the presidency is held by Republicans. Majorities of independents have pretty consistently stuck to their guns in opposing an overpowerful state no matter which party has the edge.
Are Republicans and Democrats more sympathetic to big government in their own hands because they believe in the righteousness of their agendas? Well, maybe. But the evidence suggests that political partisans are less convinced of their own side's goodness than they are that their enemies are evil, in an expression of what's called negative partisanship.
"Negative partisanship is the idea that people choose a party not necessarily based on the party's platform or even the candidate. They do so out of animosity or dislike or disdain toward the opposing party," Chris Weber, an associate professor in Arizona State University's School of Government and Public Policy, commented in 2020. Weber points out that Americans haven't really changed their feelings towards their own parties over the years, but their dislike of political opponents has intensified.
"Viewing half of the country or a large section of the country as antithetical to American democracy is actually really harmful," he added. "It's an outgrowth of political polarization that has potentially very serious consequences."
Recent polling emphasizes Professor Weber's point.
"Eighty-one percent of Democrats say they believe the Republican Party's agenda poses a threat that, if it isn't stopped, will destroy America as we know it," NBC News reported this week of a new poll. "An almost identical share of Republicans—79 percent—believe the same of the Democratic Party's agenda."
"A majority of voters in both parties identified the opposing party as a 'major threat to democracy,'" a New York Times/Siena College poll published last week agreed. "Voters also signaled a bipartisan willingness to support a president who goes 'outside of existing rules': A third, including similar shares in both parties, said presidents should do what they think is best, even if it might flout the rules."
That is not the first poll to find significant (though not generally majority) support for a presidency that can act without constraints. And it's not just the presidency. Driven by animus towards opponents and a sense among large majorities of both Democrats and Republicans "that their side in politics has been losing more often than it has been winning" in the words of Pew Research (since the major parties alternate in dominance, just who is winning?), both parties are jettisoning faith in traditional boundaries on political power. The illiberal evolution is apparent on the environmentalist left and the national conservative right which now frequently reject checks on authority that stand in their way.
"This is what feels most broken in our politics," Reason's Stephanie Slade wrote in the October issue. "It's not the ways left and right are further apart than ever; it's the ways they're closer together, with powerful elements on each side having jettisoned the longstanding liberal ideal of respecting the rights of even those with whom you strongly disagree."
With the major parties having a near-total lock on political power, Americans are stuck voting for different brands of the large, intrusive government most tell Gallup they don't want.
The irony is that people who don't like each other can get along reasonably well under a smaller and less-intrusive government by leaving each other alone and just rolling their eyes at the strange ways of those others. But the increasingly authoritarian parties for whom they're actually voting, and their selectivity about favoring smaller government only when their faction is out of power, guarantee continuing conflict. A big government that interferes in many areas of life is too dangerous to be allowed to fall into the hands of enemies who will use it for their purposes—and it will change hands so long as there are competitive elections.
It's encouraging that Americans tell pollsters, year after year, that they want a smaller government that does less; that's a recipe for a freer, more peaceful society that makes room for people of varied values and preferences. But advocating restraint only when you're out of power is only another way of saying that you want to kneecap your enemies. To end the alternating bouts of kneecapping, people are going to have to adopt smaller government as a principle that applies to everybody, including themselves and their allies.
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"Americans Oppose Big Government, Unless Their Party Is in Power"
And now much of "Team R" is claiming that Government Almighty should be SOOOOOO LARGE as to be able to proclaim and declare ALL "non-Team-R" votes to be FRAUDULENT!!! This is a one-way ticket to a 1-party DicktatorShit!!!
Hey Team R power-mongers... Can you name me ONE single example of a one-party DicktatorShit that has brought long-term peace and prosperity?
Hey Sqrlsy, can you give us ONE single example where Republicans are arguing for a one-party “DicktatorShit” rather than the Democrats?
I don’t give a shit about the Republican party or if it succeeds. It’s full of greedy idiots and used-car salesman.
But you Democrats are a misanthropic threat not just to Western civilization but the whole of humanity. You're a cancer. Your party needs to be eliminated just like its Nazi precursor.
The success of the Republicans only matters to me in as much as it currently indicates Democratic Party failure. That’s what matters to me.
Hey Sea Lion I have given MANY examples of this for a LONG time!
I say again, “Under Der TrumpfenFuher, the “R” party will NOT rest until it is the ONLY party!”
Why is it?
If you need proof of what I say, read https://reason.com/2020/12/20/desperate-to-stop-biden-from-taking-office-trump-suggests-military-intervention-voting-machine-seizures-and-appointing-sidney-powell-to-investigate-her-own-fraud-claims/ Desperate To Stop Biden From Taking Office, Trump Suggests Military Intervention, Voting Machine Seizures, and Appointing Sidney Powell To Investigate Her Own Fraud Claims
Trump flunkies want to use martial law to hold new elections in swing states that didn’t vote Trump. Use the military to force a do-over where the people didn’t vote for Trump like they were supposed to. Give them a second bite at the apple.
And there will be endless do-overs till these wayward slobs do things the RIGHT way, and vote for Der TrumpfenFuhrer!
Those states who voted for Der TrumpfenFuhrer? Texas, for instance? And now that time has gone by, and millions of Texans have seen yet MORE of the “true stripes” of the Trumptatorshit… And they voted for Trump, but are SOOOO disgusted by now, they want to vote differently by now… Do THEY get a do-over?
Let’s selectively re-play this game till the Trumptatorshit lasts forever!
The ONLY way that states that DID vote for the continuation of the Trumptatorshit, will get a re-vote, to make it all “fair” to people who’ve changed their minds, by now, or who were excluded from voting by “R” machinations or being too busy or sick that day, to vote… The ONLY way that voters in THESE states will get a “second bite at the apple”, is to make up utterly fantastical LIES about the “R” party’s cheating, collusion with Lizard Men, etc.!
If the Lizard Men stole it last time, what will keep them from stealing it the next time around?
What we are CLEARLY evolving towards here, is NOT election wins by the most votes or even electoral college votes, it is “WINNING” by “He who whines and cries and makes up lies, the most”!
WHY, oh WHY might it be, that people who don’t like the history of 1-party states, are afraid to vote “R” any more?
Hillary came out yesterday saying the Republicans are going to steal the 2024 election.
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I guess you didn't get the memo that questioning elections is okay and healthy again.
This is what your Party's goddess was saying yesterday, Sqrlsy: “Right wing extremists already have a plan to literally steal the next presidential election.”
Sidney Powell is the EXPERT on “questioning elections”!!! The BEST "experts” are expert at LYING IN COURT!!!
https://reason.com/2022/02/11/sidney-powell-disowns-her-kraken-saying-she-is-not-responsible-for-her-phony-story-of-a-stolen-election/ (Yet another Powell article)
https://reason.com/2021/03/23/sidney-powell-says-shes-not-guilty-of-defamation-because-no-reasonable-person-would-have-believed-her-outlandish-election-conspiracy-theory/ Sidney Powell Says She’s Not Guilty of Defamation Because ‘No Reasonable Person’ Would Have Believed Her ‘Outlandish’ Election Conspiracy Theory Which particular lies are you wanting to hear and believe today, hyper-partisan Wonder Child?
Isn't this what Rachel Bitecofer has talked about? How our politics are driven more by our dislike than what we like. Can we continue doing politics this way?
Who cares, the Democrats have always been a force for evil, worse than the Spanish Falangists or Italian Fascists. The only Western political party more brutal, bigoted and vicious were the German Nazis.
I have always hated them.
the Democrat party is the oldest and most enduring racist political party in history, and its racism continues to this day. Here are the facts:
The Democrat Party was founded in 1828. Its first national party platform, ratified during the 1840 Presidential election, stated: “ that all efforts by abolitionists or others, made to induce congress to interfere with questions of slavery… are calculated to lead to the most alarming and dangerous consequences, and that all such efforts have an inevitable tendency to diminish the happiness of the people… and ought not to be countenanced by any friend to our political institutions.”
The message was clear: the Democrat Party did not consider Black Americans to be “people” deserving of “happiness.”
That same language was in every national Democrat party platform for the next 16 years.
Democrat party leaders acted on their racist principles, committing high treason against their country and their fellow Americans between 1861-1865 in order to preserve the system of Black human bondage.
In 1868, the Democrat Party platform urged amnesty for the traitors who, during the Civil War, killed hundreds of thousands of Americans for the purpose of preserving slavery. The platform also called for “the abolition of the Freedmen’s Bureau; and all political instrumentalities designed to secure negro supremacy”:
In 1904, seventy-six years after its founding, the Democrat party’s platform complained about the Republican platform:
“The race question has brought countless woes to this country. The calm wisdom of the American people should see to it that it brings no more.
To revive the dead and hateful race and sectional animosities in any part of our common country means confusion, distraction of business, and the reopening of wounds now happily healed. We therefore deprecate and condemn the Bourbon-like selfish, and narrow spirit of the recent Republican Convention at Chicago which sought to kindle anew the embers of racial and sectional strife, and we appeal from it to the sober common sense and patriotic spirit of the American people.” . . .
Throughout most of the 20th century, Democrats condoned or excused policies of apartheid and disenfranchisement of Black Americans.
Senate Democrats successfully filibustered a Republican led anti-lynching bill in 1934, and a Republican-led effort to ban the poll tax in 1940.
At the time, the poll tax was so effective in the American South that only 3% of Black Americans were registered to vote there.
Elected Democrats fought tooth and nail against anti-racist legislation, filibustering the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and engaging in so-called “massive resistance” against school integration into the early 1970s.
A century and half of racist policies vigorously supported by Democrat party leaders — no other political party in history comes close.
And that's not covering all the other horrifically malevolent shit the Democrats did like the Trail of Tears, the Indian Acts, the Japanese Internment, Civil Service Segregation, etc.
It's absolutely irredeemable. Instead of pulling down harmless statues, the useful idiots should have been tearing down the evilest party currently in the West.
I notice that you walked up to the mid-1960s and stopped. Maybe because most of the people who did most of those terrible things left the Democratic party and became Republicans during the Civil Rights era (and specifically the Presidency of LBJ)? Or was that pure coincidence?
The Republican party of my lifetime (I was born in 1970) is the party of Confederate apologism. The party embraced by neo-Nazis. The party of traditionalism and all of the biases it engenders. The party of religious values forced through legislation. The party of cultural and social restrictionism. The party of war. The party of corporate welfare. The party of stale, outdated, quaint, defined social roles.
Republicans aren't bad people. They aren't evil. Neither are Democrats. They just have different values and different priorities. The things they excuse/accept and the things they despise/reject. It's not like either party is dedicated to individual choices or freedom of expression.
Which is why most people aren't Democrats or Republicans. Everybody seems to forget that out of D, R, and I, only independents have more than 30% of the populace.
Go, independents!
"But you Democrats are a misanthropic threat not just to Western civilization but the whole of humanity. You’re a cancer. Your party needs to be eliminated just like its Nazi precursor.
The success of the Republicans only matters to me in as much as it currently indicates Democratic Party failure. That’s what matters to me."
If I didn't already know you were this extreme, I would have assumed you were making a parody supporting the thesis of the article.
Also, you get bonus crazy points for working to change Godwin's Law from "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison to Nazis or Adolf Hitler approaches 1." to "In an online discussion, the probability of an instant comparison to Nazis or Adolf Hitler is 1.".
Excepting the German Nazis, point out a more vicious, racist, malevolent political party than the Democrats.
What other modern political party can match the Democrats total involvement in slavery, Jim Crow, Indian Removal and the Trail of Tears, the Klu Klux Klan, Japanese Internment, Japanese and Chinese immigration bans, the Segregation of the Civil Service, Civil Rights Acts Filibusters, etc.
You knew all these things, but you support the perpetrators and call me extreme? Fuck you, Nazi cunt.
The Khmer Rouge? The Bolshevik Party? There were plenty of evil parties far worse than the Democrats, and which gave the Nazis a run for their money.
And he should get crazy points for being a Republican partisan when he cannot ever be a Republican himself — because he’s a friggin’ Canadian.
Hi. Good Night everybody.
What's up with that? This is the second thread where I've seen you say that. Is this a meme thing? 🙂
Hey Shit Eater, We have a one party state now and it isn't Team R. And the dreaded T man couldn't even keep his party together, they bailed at the first midterm.
China.
Ask the people of Tibet and Hong Kong, and the Uighurs, how their "long-term peace and prosperity" is working for them! Or how the people of Taiwan feel about the prospect of having "long-term peace and prosperity" imposed (by Mainland Chinese force) upon them!
So both Red China and Nazi Germany are somehow compatible with the NAP/NIFF?
Were you, by any chance, diagnosed as dyslexic when you read about the NAP/NIFF?
Voting is choosing to authorize a ruler, someone who will use the initiation of force, threats, instead of reason, rights, as the political paradigm. This means will dictate the end, not stated intentions.
Your choice to let others run your life is yours to make, personally, for yourself, but you don't speak for me, don't choose for me; I do that. Your attempt to do otherwise is an act of war against me, an attack on my sovereignty, my right to life, liberty, property, happiness. Nothing excuses, justifies, that politics. Leave me alone! Do for me what I do for you: Live & Let Live!
So you're pro-choice?
And support parents making decisions for their kids (including medical decisions)?
And support drug legalization (either limited or complete)?
And oppose unnecessary occupational licensing?
And oppose zoning restrictions?
I believe that Americans want is a less visible government. People want government services like road maintenance, fire departments and some safety nets to help those having problems. But they also like those in the background and not a government that is always in your face. The far left and the far right want their vision of the country, but that is not what most people want. Politicians are no longer tacking back to the center. We the voters need to force them back and that means electing more centrist moderate candidates.
Agreed!
How about some tit-for-tat "Grand Compromises"? Example:
"Team R" will give up it's UTTERLY GINORMOUS "punishment boner" concerning abortions, if "Team D" will do the same, and give up its power to "make your charity choices for you", AKA, tax you to fund welfare? Latter problem here could be (perhaps) solved in a broadly palatable manner, by putting an absolute "cap" on how large this spending can become... OR... BETTER IMHO... Allowing the taxpayer to CHOSE where their (mandated) charity dollars go... Kinda like school vouchers... To Government Almighty charity, or to the private Red Cross, for example. Or to IJ, Institutes for Justice, = my fave!!!
Would it not be very nice to have these discussions. To argue about policy from the center out instead of the extremes inward. Imagine discussing crime and talking about causes like poverty and mental health issues. This instead of talking about bail, tougher sentences and no parole.
My Grandfather, New Dealer though he was, didn't believe in that "root causes" crap.
He said: " You take a son-of-a-bitch, give him a $Million Dollars, give him food, a new wardrobe, a new house, and a car, and all you got is a rich, well-fed, well-clothed, well-housed son-of-a-bitch with a way around town!"
'Twas ever thus.
That's funny and too true!!! Some of the older generations said interesting things in semi-humorous ways...
Now on the other hand, I should hope that you'd agree with me on an "old saying" from way back when that "work is a most excellent anti-poverty program!!!" So let's DITCH those "licenses for interior decorators" (etc.) and allow people to WORK!!! Get out of their way!
I hate to say this but your grandfather sounds like he is describing Trump.
Like it or not there are few problems that can be addressed without looking to the root cause.
So maybe "voters need to force them" means breaking into the capitol, beating and killing the cops and demanding election results be voided. Then again it could mean casting leveraged, law-repealing libertarian spoiler votes on a platform that does not reek of commie anarchism nor attack the entire Constitution? Which "force"? The former requires an armed numerical majority so large as to be superfluous once feasible. The latter reliably requires from 2% to 9% of the vote depending on how fast you want results.
There are a number of ways for voters to democratically force the issue. For starters get out and vote in primaries. The extremes control the primaries and that leads to awful choices in the main elections. Get more ranked choice voting as this will force candidates to the middle to get larger number of total voters. Libertarians should stop focusing on the Presidency and start focusing on elections that they could win. In a country as divided as we have now about half a dozen Libertarian representatives could have a big influence in House.
Hi. Good Night everybody.
Again, Bullwinkle?
You mean "voters who were let into the building by cops and who took a few selfies before exiting in an orderly fashion, except the one who was shot by a cop".
You and me and SQRLSY and others want that, but lots of American partisans want their partisan agendas: either stopping climate change at all costs, eliminating all meanness towards anyone, bringing about total economic fairness; and on the other side, using government to preserve Christian family values, keep illegal immigrants out of the country whole never changing any immigration law to make their immigration any more legal, controlling women’s pregnancies.
"You and me and SQRLSY and others want that"
In other words, we leftists who believe cops were beaten to death on J6.
Mike, you are the epitome of Leftist ideology.
"...leftists who believe cops were beaten to death on J6."
Cops lived... Not for lack of Trumpanzees gone apeshit trying to kill them!
One of my goals is to show that power-lusting Trumptards slobber over the prospect of getting MOAH POWAH for themselves, at ANY costs! Ethics, principles, people, law and order, a decent future for most people… ALL can and WILL be sacrificed for MOAH POWAH for Trumpturds!
READ the below and hang your tiny brainless, power-lusting shit-head in SHAME for always taking the side of Trumpanzees, power-luster-pig!
https://www.jpost.com/international/kill-him-with-his-own-gun-dc-cop-talks-about-the-riot-655709 also https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/28/michael-fanone-trump-gop-riots/
‘Kill him with his own gun’ – DC cop talks about Capitol riot
DC Police officer Michael Fanone: I had a choice to make: Use deadly force, which would likely result with the mob ending his life, or trying something else.
“Pro-law-and-order” Trumpturds take the side of trumpanzees going apeshit, making cops beg for their lives! For trying to defend democracy against mobocracy! Can you slime-wads sink ANY lower?!?!
Explain how the “Trumpturds” were the ones with the power that day, like you claim. Because your lying Pravda Fanone propaganda piece sure as fuck doesn’t.
That just came completely out of left field. I’d say you were trying to put words in my mouth, but your comment was so completely out of context and dripping with vitriol, the actual words you wrote barely matter.
You do realize, I would hope, that I was being CRITICAL of the left when I wrote that their agenda is “stopping climate change at all costs, eliminating all meanness towards anyone, bringing about total economic fairness.” Did you think I was praising them?
Anyway, for the record, I am a non-partisan libertarian, not a leftist.
Poor attempt at deflection, but you know I'm highlighting everything you post as a lefty ideologue, while gaslighting the right as the "party of extremists".
Your claims to be moderate are lost in your endless party sycophancy.
It boggles my mind how Mike thinks he's actually tricking people.
Even one example please?
You are revealing yourself as a small-minded bundle of hatefulness who lashes out randomly at people who aren’t even members of your rival political ideological team. It’s deep psychotic sickness going on in your head.
How about the last few times you defended gender surgeries because a) nobody could prove bottom surgery and statements form hospitals and WPATH don't count and b) conservatives are against it because they don't know any people that have dysphoria like you do?
Your attacks against J6 are obvious. Your defense of the state under Covid another. Your continued sea lioning about democrats being the party of Decorum and Good Intentions.
I could go on and on.
The king of putting words into peoples’ mouths has spoken!
Long live the king!
Stop lying. Mike said exactly those things here.
The word, deflection, means something, by the way. To be deflecting, I would have had to have brought up a new topic.
The only allowable discussion is DEMOCRATS BAD. Anything else is deflection.
The funny thing is I included some DEMOCRATS BAD but it still wasn’t good enough.
Republicans are bad. The Democrats are evil, not merely bad.
I think there is a larger center in this country being drown out by the extremes. The center needs to find a voice.
Cup your ear and have a listen Tuesday after next.
The center doesn't need a voice, as they have nothing to say. Seriously, who wants to shout to everybody, "Be average, people! Adopt average policies!"
It might surprise you that average people are often very happy. Sometimes the happiest people around. They are not struggling to get by or trying to get to the top.
If it were limited to that, my anarcho-minarchist self would be tickled pink. People DO want that for themselves, but they also desire to impose rules on others. Freedom for me, controls for thee is the American way of things. Something we inherited from the Old World.
"We the voters need to force them back and that means electing more centrist moderate candidates."
Yeah, but it seems to me that those candidates don't generate the press coverage that the more "edgy" candidates receive.
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Can you give more examples of high and low visibility? Because road maintenance and its products seem very visible, and fire departments at least moderately so, and sometimes extremely so.
Doesn't most of visibility otherwise have to do with news reporting?
Cynically, I see most people as wanting government to help them and stay out of their way, giving them a green light and the crossing traffic a red one. It might even be literally so, wanting more green light time on the street that goes the direction they travel, and less on the crossing street that they don't travel. Or a bike lane if they bike, not if they don't.
Granted that a Reason.com article can only be so long, but...
There was no mention made here, of a HUGE driver that drives towards larger Government Almighty! Special interests! Google "regulatory capture" and "concentrated benefits, diffuse costs"!
HOW MANY Americans of either party (excluding self-interested medical doctors and FDA power pigs and assholes) favor HAVING TO GET PERMISSION to blow on a CHEAP PLASTIC FLUTE, fer Chrissakes?!?!?
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What national programs have the Republicans foisted on us in the last 2 decades you leftist POS? Sorry but your leftist allies treat politics as moralizing bloodsport and your idea of an appropriate response is capitulation or perhaps just ineffectual resistance? GFY with your defense of looting, riots, arson and murder for one side but calling any protest of overreach on the other terrorism or insurrection.
How about statist womb control for starters? And telling me who I may, and (mostly) may NOT trade with freely, among the un-Americans? And who (from across the borders) I may freely invite to my house? (Granted that "Team D" offends on SOME of these issues as well, generally EXCLUDING abortion).
"Team R" is NOT as pure as the driven snow!
They don't have the blood of 60 million murdered babies on their hands.
See http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/#_Toc107315509
"The Sociobiology of Abortion" sub-section for about 10,000 well-documented reasons why you're utterly WRONG here in your LUSTING after PUNISHMENTS for all who disagree with you, about THEIR bodies!
QUESTIONS THAT THE FANATICS WON’T EVER ANSWER: What do YOU think that the punishment should be for deliberately killing a fertilized human egg cell? Ditto the punishments for likewise killing a fertilized egg of an ape... A monkey... A rat... An insect... If your Righteous Punishments From on High are DIFFERENT in these cases, then WHY? WHERE do the differences come from? And what gives YOU (or the 51% of the voters) the right to punish the rest of us?
Never, ever, have I gotten any serious answers, when I pose these questions, about what the PUNISHMENTS should be! (Could it be that the fanatics don’t want us to focus on THEIR obsession, which is their smug and self-righteous “punishment boners”?). Also, the unwillingness to answer questions is strongly indicative of authoritarianism. At the root here is the unmistakable attitude of “Because I said so, peons! Do NOT question your Rulers!”
So when advanced space aliens come here, you're ready to blast them to smithereens, obliterate them at will... Because they have no human DNA? Are not now, will never be, human? Or at the very least, you're not willing to codify punishment for any alien-murderers?
Murdering a space alien should be placed in the law books as a crime, pro-actively. And also to make a point to the troglodytes, about this "sacred human DNA" crap! WHERE does the sacredness come from, for cryin' out loud to Government Almighty? (Sensible people often believe that it comes from consciousness or sentience, which animals apparently have to varying degrees, but is beyond our ability to precisely measure or quantify.)
How much do people who support interfering in a woman’s reproductive choices to force her to carry an embryo to term support, or even give a second’s thought to, helping her to raise that child into a thriving person? I’m not even talking about welfare or providing free government schooling, but just continuing to be involved in that child’s life after birth through private charity, making sure it has a good life.
"They don’t have the blood of 60 million murdered babies on their hands."
Neither does anyone else.
I can think of one. Bush era, the drug plan to buy senior citizen votes. My least favorite Bush policy after the Patriot act and TSA nonsense.
But then you get Obama with his shovel-ready pork barrel and the ACA, effectively destroying any healthcare model other than big insurance, forcing doctors to abandon small practices for larger, massively intruding on personal privacy, and adding layers of bureaucracy to patient -doctor interactions. Fundamentally the largest tax increase in my lifetime, as well. Makes you think fudging the numbers on medicare prescriptions was a few coins in the couch cushions.
Trump? Pandemic spending kinda sucked, but then Biden and D controlled congress massively doubled and tripled down on "stimulus" AFTER the pandemic was past and while inflation was looming.
Fucking bothsideism doesn't work when you have one side massively increasing my costs, my government burdens, and complaining that their unfunded trillions spent were not enough "stimulus". I dislike the Republican party so much, but I'll vote for the not Democrat every single time. THis is not a "both sides are the same" issue.
Laws against gay marriage, bans on gays in the military, requiring unnecessary medical procedures to get an abortion, banning (or severely restricting) abortion, supply-side economics, laws against recreational drug use (except alcohol and nicotine), reduced legal immigration, regressive tax policies, and the list goes on.
Republicans have been obsessed with forcing everyone to live by their restrictionist moral belief system since Reagan, when they realized that it was no longer what most Americans believed. From the Moral Majority (which was neither) of the 80s to Evangelical Protestants of today, Republicans have forced minority cultural values on Americans.
And since Reagan, they have supported corporate welfare and other supply-side policies that make no fiscal sense. Plus they have never instituted balanced budgets or spending reductions when they have enjoyed unified government. So they are as fiscally awful as Democrats, but compound it with hypocritical claims of fiscal responsibility.
Plus they have never wasted an opportunity to throw an unnecessary war, even when there was a justified one (Afghanistan) already going on.
Other than moral totalitarianism, fiscal irresponsibility, and warmongering, Republicans haven't foisted anything on anyone, right?
If Republicans instituted policies that supported individual decision-making (especially on moral issues), supported legal immigration while prosecuting illegal immigration, cut spending, balanced the budget, and abandoned supply-side economics I would be a full throated supporter of the GOP. They don't, which is why I'm a libertarian.
Tuccille's point is reinforced right here. For every Fabian socialist plant we have about 3 dozen hard, angry, nationalsocialist republican infiltrators each with a chip on his shoulder, anxious to take umbrage at the tiniest perceived slight. A remark that Trump is a little on the elderly side for Commander-in-Chief, for instance, brings a hailstorm of injured reproach ranging from tear-streaked pouting to carpet-biting rage. Adding Biden to the remark only makes their rage more sullen and resentful. The Kleptocracy is a lose-lose waste of votes.
Projection much?
Two summers of lefty rioting proves you are lying.
Wow, another context-free rant. What, are you saying Libertariantranslator was out there rioting?
How are "Two summers of lefty rioting" free of context, you devious fuck?
It's perfectly contextualized to me. You're talking about the Summer of Love and the Summer of '69, right?
Wait, the Red Summer.
No, the riots, burnings, and lynchings by the KKK in 1964 and 1965.
Shit. Maybe it's only contextualized if you believe that there were widespread riots in recent years. Which isn't accurate, but that doesn't seem to stop the paleoconservatives here from pushing a narrative.
Well, there were riots over George Floyd’s death that I would agree were widespread at the time and got out of hand.
For the life of me, can’t see what any of that has to do with Libertariantranslator.
Hank, there's only one political party right now actually using corporatism to censor the general population and attack opposition.
That's the very definition of fascism.
It's time to realize that the world is very different from the one you came of age in 60 years ago.
The government censoring the populace is fascistic. A corporation making decisions about their brand is capitalism. The first one is bad, the second is good.
I get that you dislike the fact that most companies don't want to associate with you, but that's what capitalism is about. If consumers didn't like it, Truth Social and Parler would be industry leaders.
Just look at all of the companies who dropped Kanye like a bad habit when they didn't want to be associated with his toxic bullshit. Same thing.
Isn't Trump older than Biden? Looking it up...nope, he's four years younger. Still, he's seventy six. And Biden is still a septuagenarian too, for the next few weeks. So basically Trump as archaic as Biden.
As The Jacket says, we're living in the age of gerontocracy. I don't want kids running the show, but how about someone between 40 and 60 for once?
I was desperately hoping that once Obama won there wouldn't be another Baby Boomer President. Then we got Trump and Biden.
For fuck's sake, can't we get someone in there who built their belief system after Richard Nixon left office in shame? Or, even better, after MTV was born?
It has to happen eventually.
Meanwhile, Biden, Trump, McConnell, Sanders, Feinstein, Putin — all getting their last gasp in.
Please outline anything Republicans have done to silence or punish their enemies
How about lying, and then lying IN COURT, about your lies?
(Lying here = defaming vote-counters for the supposed CRIME of counting ANY votes that were NOT for Trump!)
https://reason.com/2022/02/11/sidney-powell-disowns-her-kraken-saying-she-is-not-responsible-for-her-phony-story-of-a-stolen-election/ (Yet another Powell article)
https://reason.com/2021/03/23/sidney-powell-says-shes-not-guilty-of-defamation-because-no-reasonable-person-would-have-believed-her-outlandish-election-conspiracy-theory/
Sidney Powell Says She’s Not Guilty of Defamation Because ‘No Reasonable Person’ Would Have Believed Her ‘Outlandish’ Election Conspiracy Theory
Which particular lies are you wanting to hear and believe today, hyper-partisan Wonder Child?
But Sydney didn't lie. The "errors" in Dominion machines that switch votes turned out to be true. They've been found by the EAC in five states now. https://www.sos.mo.gov/default.aspx?PageID=10199
Where's Dominion's Soros-funded billion dollar defamation lawsuit now?
Time to update your copypasta.
Straight from your link... Liar! See below...
"CISA and Dominion both attest that the flaws in the voting equipment are isolated to lab testing and no changes to election results have occurred."
End import.
In a "lab test" I can subject just about ANYTHING to highly improbable, outlandish conditions... And BREAK the tested item!
"Please outline anything Republicans have done to silence or punish their enemies"
Ron DeSantis and the Republican legislature passed the "Don't say gay" law. Disney's CEO made mildly negative comments about the law. Republicans passed a law that stripped 6 (Disney and 5 collateral damage) of the 1844 special tax districts in Florida of their status.
That's about as straight a line between free speech criticism of the government and governmental retribution as it gets.
Partisans are partisan? Well knock me over with a feather.
No, no, no-- YOU are partisan. The author is enlightened.
Now get back in your hole.
In his recent interview with Chris Rufo, Nick Gillespie strongly objected to Rufo's suggestion that public universities might be problematic from a libertarian perspective, noting that he'd gotten his degrees at public universities. This isn't to object to Nick. It's to call attention to a problem with regime libertarianism, generally. If libertarianism can't be relied upon for consistent and reliable opposition to government excess, how can they expect it from conservatives or progressives?
I assume that this is another suggestion that public universities are liberal. The fact is that a great many students and areas of study have little in the way of politic leanings or even lean conservative. Check out the School of Business, School of Engineering or School of Agriculture at most universities and you will find a pretty broad group of political ideas.
Now School of Letter and Science can be expected to lean liberal, but plenty of conservative professors work in these schools and conservative student come out of them. So, a libertarian like Nick can come out of a university. They don't have to be grown from an egg.
I assume that this is another suggestion that public universities are liberal.
Yeah, well, you assume incorrectly.
I wouldn't think, from a libertarian perspective, whether public universities are liberal or conservative should not matter one whit. The government sponsoring enterprises that the private not-for-profit market handles entirely on its own is wildly inconsistent with libertarian principles. I can hardly see where you can make a case that the state teaching comparative literature or even mechanical engineering somehow defends anyone's inherent rights and liberties. State universities are no more consistent with the principles of small government than state dry cleaners, state internet service providers, or state supermarkets.
And I'm not saying that Nick supports any of these other things. But, it's clear that regime libertarians are just as guilty of an affinity for big government when it's something they benefit from. And I'm sure the same could be said of paleos. But, if the ideology predicated on small government (or, in the case of anarcho-capitalists, no government) can't be uniformly consistent on the matter, it should hardly be surprising when the ideologies not predicated on that principle prove inconsistent or opportunistic about that principle.
That's what I thought you meant, when I read it. One of the more interesting aspects of libertarianism is whether there is a communal element to government and, if so, what constitutes "too much".
Having an educated citizenry is definitely in a nation's best interest, but how should that be accomplished? If the non-profit sector is handling it sufficiently, is there any justification for a state university? Or is the fact that the public university system has delivered the promised benefits to states (and the entire country) be proof that it is a justifiable aspect of government?
The balancing necessary for a functional version of libertarianism is fascinating to me. At its most "pure", libertarianism is almost indistinguishable from anarchy. At its most practical, it is utilitarianism with a weak nod towards individuality.
For example, completely free markets, based on an absolute model of free association, only works if there is another local business that will provide products to those rejected by Business #1. Jim Crow demonstrated that completely free association could marginalize entire subgroups, negatively impacting their ability to thrive economically. Is that historical example a justification for requring equal access to all businesses? Is there a minimum "coverage", where there is no group that isn't serviced by at least one provider, that would allow for a loosening of requirements in a locality?
There are plenty of other examples, but if you start from the premise that absolutism impedes desirable outcomes, where is the line drawn?
'Plenty of conservative professors work in these schools.' This is a lie. unsurprisingly. Faculty and administration hew left/liberal, with around 5% being conservative. Heterodox Academy article: https://www.aei.org/articles/are-colleges-and-universities-too-liberal-what-the-research-says-about-the-political-composition-of-campuses-and-campus-climate/
Nick has always been a cultural libertarian, a small-government libertarian. More of a Hayekian than a Randian or Rothbardian. He's STILL pointing in the direction of shrinking government.
Throwing out public state run (not Federal) colleges as some sort of "haha gotcha you don't really want to shrink any government" is just stupid. Nick's fevered dream may not be the same as the Mises Caucus "smash it all except the border patrol", but it would still be unmistakenly libertarian.
Throwing out public state run (not Federal) colleges as some sort of “haha gotcha you don’t really want to shrink any government” is just stupid.
Why? Why is government-subsidized and managed higher education an acceptable deviation from libertarian purism, but not, say a secure border or a globe-spanning military? It's something you and Nick happen to like and the others aren't doesn't seem a particularly satisfying principle for defining libertarianism.
You put your finger on the crux of the issue: purity. Is a "pure" libertarian givernment possible? And what tenets would be encapsulated in "pure" libertarianism? There are a lot of different takes on the practical application (or even the "real" meaning) of the various theoretical aspects of libertarianism.
And that doesn't even address the question of whether a "pure" or "absolute" version of any ideology can be productive or if it is so rigid that it is authoritarianism wearing a different outfit.
Shh, there are lots of commenters here who cannot handle such lines of thought.
But…when he specifically argues with someone he’s interviewing on the subject, and leaves that argument in the record, isn’t that a bigger deal than just making a small exception? I mean, he could’ve just said something like that he happened to have benefited from state-supported higher ed and yet still would abolish it. Or he could’ve said something like, in the interest of full disclosure, he had a conflict of interest on the subject that may color his thinking.
Like the big deal people made about Trump's saying how great eminent domain was, instead of his just saying something like that he happened to have benefited by it in the past and that it's a fact of life for urban redevelopers.
If Trump said eminent domain is “great” that is a big deal to libertarians.
Fun and Games at Penn State
https://mobile.twitter.com/alexstein99/status/1584730869637722112
Why do fanatical women all look alike?
I haven't looked up Alex Stein's positions and I've long learned not to expect 100% agreement...But damn! He has some real stoneage to taunt and take on a mob of SJW rabble! And on a radioactive University campus destroyed forever by Jerry Sandusky and Joe Paterno!
Combine that with full-bore Libertarianism and that is what would make Libertarianism into a badass ideology! 🙂
> Americans Oppose Big Government, Unless Their Party Is in Power
Water is wet, news at eleven.
This time is different though. Usually when Republicans get out of power they resume talking about fiscal issues. Not this time. Even grumbles about tax cuts seem muted, but none seem the least concerned with out of control spending or even inflation.
Not that the Democrats are any better. Always talking about peace and ending wars when they're out of office. But four years of Trump they were silent, except when Trump suggested American start withdrawing from the M.E. then they had a collective pants shitting event. Sigh.
So yeah, people only oppose big government when their tribe is out of power. And sometimes not even then.
For people to understand this the writer should make clear that "79% of Republicans" means 79% of 22% of Americans; and that "81% of Democrats" means 81% of 33% of Americans. In order for those numbers to add up to about 55% of Americans thinking that government does too much that should be left up to individuals you have to include a large number of people who are neither Republicans nor Democrats. Opinion polls start out unreliable and mostly meaningless and taper off towards worthless when applied to the wrong baseline.
It's kinda funny - but I think generally the people who think 'the government should do something!' tend to be more on the left than the right.
For instance, we have a US Senate race in Missouri right now. The Democrat candidate is running an ad currently decrying the Republican candidate for allowing 'Communist Chinese investors' to continue to buy farmland in Missouri. Which, while I'm not thrilled about that, I'm not sure we actually have the legal authority to do much about it, currently. And I'm not sure if we should or not, from a libertarian perspective.
But it's an interesting turnabout to see the Dems wailing about 'Communist Chinese!' for a change, unless you look at it from a 'the government should do something!' perspective.
The catch is that people are most committed to smaller, restrained government when their favored party is out of power.
Thus, libertarians will always be for smaller, restrained government.
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What kind of big government would we get if the Libertarians took power? Semi serious question.
Libertarians will never take power because people who don't want power don't seek power, and because politicians get elected by promising to smite enemies while handing out free shit. Neither of which or libertarian family values.
Libertarians will never take power because people who don’t want power don’t seek power...
If you vote, you seek power. If you argue about politics online, you seek to persuade people to your point of view, or at least just want to vent about how much you disagree with something someone else said.
Libertarian politics never goes far because the only thing that holds it together as an ideology among ordinary people that claim to like it is not wanting "big government." With that being so vague and poorly defined, often intentionally, some people with general right-wing political leanings, but that aren't content with standard conservative Republican politicians, can read into it whatever they want. That's not even a coherent voting bloc, let alone the basis for a political party.
Whatever libertarian intellectuals and political commentators say, it is what voters think about it that would matter. And there simply are not a significant number of voters that really think that deeply about libertarian political philosophy. There aren't even that many think deeply about liberal/progressive or conservative political philosophies either. The vast majority of voters are going on relatively small amounts of information, their current circumstances, and their gut reactions and emotions.
We'd get a SMALL Government NON-Almighty!
(Then the power pigs would be attracted to power and so they would PRETEND to be libertarians, and in ?? years or decades at the most, we'd be back to the same old shit. Wolves in sheep's clothing, and all that. Also, voters say, "PLEASE tell me the lies-and-shit that I WANT to hear! Tax him and give me bennies!! And ALL bad things are to be blamed on them-NOT-me!!!")
TEA Party Republicans turned out to be the same old shit.
Yes, them and the Oath-Keepers both!
Tea Party? I was on an email list for/with them waaaay back when (yes I am getting geezer-ish). I WARNED them to STAY small-government-ish, small budget, and NOT get sucked into social issues (hating gays and abortions, etc.).
Did they listen? NOOOOOOO… (What a surprise!!!)
Newt Gingrich and his billion-dollar bribe (Ooops, I mean book-writing advance) also comes to mind!!!
They all got coopted by talk radio.
Conservative talk radio is where everything really went wrong with the Republican Party. The Rush Limbaugh model of political commentary was to make everything the opposition did or wanted to do look dangerous if not outright evil. Feed into the audience's grievances and amplify them, and make them feel validated for hating or fearing the opposition. That keep them listening and coming back for more. Worked wonders for their ratings - so much so that Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes copied the formula for a cable news channel.
Of course, it wasn't a new set of tactics, and it isn't exclusive to the right. But only on the right did it become something that could form the loyal base of a political party.
If Reason-style libertarians got into power, they’d try to impose a communist utopia, and they’d fail at it like every other communist.
If actual libertarians came into power at the federal level, they would defer to the states, allowing people in each state to make non-libertarian choices. And if actual libertarians came into power at the state level, they’d do the same for localities.
Something would fill the void. It would be a theocracy or a hungry foreign power or a military dictatorship. Societies haven't evolved to protect natural rights and survive in the competition for resources against other societies. Collectivist, aggressive societies have survived better and long destroyed more libertarian ones. I suppose one can remain reasonably libertarian and avoid conquest if it's the storehouse of the other powers' loot (I'm thinking of Switzerland or the United Arab Emirates).
"It's different when my party is in charge!"
-every partisan ever
Why, yes, I do think that conservative style big government (immigration restrictions, drug prohibition, subsidiarity) is wonderful compared to progressive style big government (government-mandated, racism, high taxes, overriding local voter preferences, etc.).
Just because some dumb, ignorant left-libertarians lump together a whole bunch of things under “big government” doesn’t mean that those things actually have anything to do with one another, or that actual libertarians give a f*ck about your equivocation.
Just because some dumb, ignorant left-libertarians lump together a whole bunch of things under “big government” doesn’t mean that those things actually have anything to do with one another, or that actual libertarians give a f*ck about your equivocation.
Let me guess, the "actual libertarians" are those that agree with you on just about everything. How about you start a party that has everything you believe and want as its platform, insist that only those that agree with at least 95% of it join the party, and then see how many people sign up. (Oh, and the 5% disagreement better not be over things that you think are non-negotiable.)
I’m sorry, but as usual, you are missing the point. If you want to treat “libertarian” and “left-libertarian” as synonymous, be my guest (you’ll have a hard time understanding other people, but that’s your problem).
My point is that just because Reason authors lump together a bunch of different policies as “big government” doesn’t make those policies similar to each other, and it doesn’t mean that they constitute “big government” to most people.
Both you and Reason writers get hung up on word definitions. You’re not going to change any minds that way or convince people of your point of view.
As for the Libertarian Party, I have been clear about the fact that I consider the idea of promoting libertarianism through a party is utter foolishness. Furthermore, just because a party calls itself “X” doesn’t mean it actually represents “X”. But, FWIW, the takeover of the LP by the Moses caucus is certainly an improvement.
The Mises Caucus is paleoconservatism dressed up in libertarian clothes. It is a bunch of trolls and edgelords who want to own the libs while bringing back the gold standard and eliminating the Fed. They are as unconcerned with personal liberty as cultural conservatives are.
Libertarianism, by advocating for "live and let live" policies, is inherently accepting of differences. It is heterodox and willing to accept a wide variety of worldviews and moral codes as long as it doesn't impact other people. The Mises Caucus is definitely not on board with that.
That’s pretty easy to explain. Just ask the people right here in the comments section.
Democrats believe Trump exercised “too much” power De-Regulating. Republicans believe Biden exercises “too much” power PERIOD.
Democrats are so F’En retarded they think “too much” power has to do with repealing power…. Yeah; they really are that stupid.
And nothing has demonstrated that better than Trumps Tax cuts and leftards running around saying it was ?STEALING? from their Nazi-Empire.
Americans are pretty clear in what they mean by "too much power," too. They want a government that plays less of a role in people's lives.
"When asked how active the government should be in addressing the nation's problems, 53 percent say it is doing too many things that should be left to individuals and businesses, while 43 percent believe the government should be doing more to solve problems," Gallup added.
That is supposed to be clear? It isn't. Clear would be people being at least a little specific about what government should or shouldn't be doing in these polls. 53% saying that government is doing "too many things that should be left to individuals and businesses" could mean people that think that government shouldn't do anything but the bare minimum of foreign relations, national defense, law enforcement, maintaining courts to resolve private disputes, and so on. Or it could mean people that think that government goes a little overboard with regulations, spends too much on social welfare that could be done by charities, and so on. That 53% could even include people that have just a couple of specific programs that they don't like, but they want everything else.
These poll questions are not reflective of anything specific that people really want or don't want from government. It is only reflective of their overall contentment with government, and it points out right after that about how this depends a lot on whether they like the party currently in control.
Well, duh.
I oppose big government no matter what party is in power, that is why I am a libertarian, unlike the socialist writers at Reason.
Good for you! Those dreadful socialist Reason writers!
A “political party” supposedly works to achieve ends. But all parties use the same means, i.e., violence against all, by the chosen elite. Voting is choosing to authorize a ruler, someone who will use the initiation of force, threats, instead of reason, rights, as the political paradigm. This means will dictate the end, not stated intentions. Your choice to let others run your life is yours to make, personally, for yourself, but you don’t speak for me, don’t choose for me; I do that. Your attempt to do otherwise is an act of war against me, an attack on my sovereignty, my right to life, liberty, property, happiness. Nothing excuses, justifies, that politics. Leave me alone! Do for me what I do for you: Live & Let Live!
This article.......
"boaf sidez!!!"
Sure; Republicans have made mistakes... Many mistakes... And almost all of those mistakes violate their parties platform...
Democrats on the other hand don't make any mistakes nor violate their party platform because their entire goal/platform is to conquer the USA for a Nazi-Empire.
Seems the new propaganda is trying to convince everyone that "boaf sidez" are equally trying to conquer the USA when that just isn't the full-truth.