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Book Reviews

America's Biggest Political Division Isn't Left vs. Right

It's the superpolitical vs. everyone else.

Morris Fiorina | From the November 2022 issue

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book2 | Illustration: elenabs/iStock
(Illustration: elenabs/iStock)

The Other Divide: Polarization and Disengagement in American Politics, by Yanna Krupnikov and John Barry Ryan, Cambridge University Press, 250 pages, $28.99

With The Other Divide, political scientists Yanna Krupnikov and John Barry Ryan have made a significant contribution to the polarization debate. Wait! What debate? Everyone knows that Americans are more polarized now than at any time since the Civil War. There is no debate. The science is settled.

Well, actually not—or at least not in political science, whatever the average political journalist might erroneously believe.

When the polarization narrative first became popular in the early 2000s, my collaborators and I wrote a short book showing that in terms of ideologies, issue positions, and partisanship, the American electorate was no more polarized than it was when it chose between Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford in 1976. In fact, significantly fewer Americans were willing to claim affiliation with either of the major parties than had been the case in the supposedly pre-polarized era. (Political scientists still debate how to think about those independents.)

Yet contemporary politics indisputably seemed more contentious, gridlocked, uncivil, and polarized than it used to be. The explanation for this seeming contradiction soon became apparent: The parties had sorted. Several decades ago, conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans roamed the halls of Congress, and cross-party voting coalitions were common. Conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans even competed for their parties' presidential nominations. (In 1976, Carter was viewed as a respectable alternative to George Wallace.) Today, conservative Democrats and liberal Republicans are virtually extinct in Congress and many state legislatures, and they have no chance of winning their parties' presidential nominations.

Consequently, we have partisan polarization within an electorate that has not changed much. The middle still exists, but it is not welcome in either party. Debates continue over such matters as whether the sorting is top-down or bottom-up (the latter is a minority view, but one held by some serious scholars); how much the broader electorate has sorted compared to political elites (not nearly as much, many believe, but again some serious scholars disagree); and the size of the middle (there is considerable disagreement about this). There is more agreement about the composition of "the middle": It is heterogeneous, comprising not just moderates but cross-pressured libertarians and populists, the alienated, and the apoliticals.

Some psychologically inclined scholars argued that the ideological differences between ordinary Democrats and Republicans did not seem sufficiently great to produce the level of acrimony that characterizes contemporary politics. They suggested that researchers were looking for partisan polarization in the wrong place; it was not cognitive but affective. In other words, partisans hated each other not so much because they disagreed about Afghanistan, taxation, or gay rights but because they increasingly belonged to different identity groups associated with the parties.

Affective polarization is a major growth industry in political science, and various debates continue here as well. Social identity theory posits that positive feelings about the in-group are stronger than negative feelings about the out-group, but empirical studies find just the opposite. How many partisans really hate members of the other party, as opposed to just making a show for the sake of cheerleading? ("The Yankees suck!") Do partisans really loathe members of the other party, or just the caricatures they form from viewing the extreme cases selected by the media?

Krupnikov and Ryan come out of the psychologically oriented affective partisan camp, but with some important differences. Consider the oft-cited finding that far more partisan parents now than in the past do not want their child to marry someone of a different party. In earlier work, Krupnikov and Ryan reported that ordinary partisans don't mind a child marrying someone outside their party if that person doesn't talk a lot about politics; moreover, parents don't want their child to marry someone in their own party who talks a lot about politics. The parents' problem is not with partisanship differences as much as it's just with talking politics.

In a sense, The Other Divide is a long, thoughtful, and persuasive extension of this finding. Rather than partisan and ideological differences, the authors focus on another divide: the one separating the people who have deep political involvement from the people who don't.

This divide is not simply one of political interest. There are plenty of people who are interested in politics, care a lot about politics, and know a lot about politics. They vote and possibly make campaign contributions. But they do not spend hours watching cable news, posting on Facebook, tweeting and retweeting on Twitter, and looking for other people as obsessed with politics as themselves. Unlike the vast majority of us, Krupnikov and Ryan write, these people make politics "a central part of their lives." Importantly, the deeply involved are unconditionally affectively polarized, whereas the less involved make distinctions between kinds of partisan adversaries.

Krupnikov and Ryan begin by constructing a psychological scale to capture the features of deep involvement. The deeply involved 1) spend a lot of time on politics at the expense of other activities; 2) attach great importance to keeping apprised of political events that most people would find of marginal interest and importance; and 3) feel a need to communicate their views and opinions to others.

The members of this small minority are both more positive about their own party and more negative about the opposition. Moreover, their affective polarization is less conditional: In contrast to most people, they would not like a child to marry someone from another party even if that person did not talk about politics. Their issue priorities are different from those of the less involved, and they are more certain that their issue positions are "right."

What factors are associated with deep involvement? For one, the deeply involved often recall lots of political discussion in their families while growing up. Interestingly, they also tend to have attended elite liberal arts colleges. (Although one wonders whether there are partisan or ideological differences underlying the latter finding, Krupnikov and Ryan do not separate deeply involved liberals, conservatives, Democrats, and Republicans.)

Not surprisingly, the deeply involved are much more likely to use social media. Precise figures here are hard to come by, inasmuch as many of the authors' analyses are based on internet samples that are not designed to be representative of the entire population. But only a fifth of the adult population is on Twitter, and the Pew Research Center reported that 97 percent of tweets about politics in 2019 were generated by the most active 10 percent of Twitter users. Doing the math, that comes to 2 percent of the adult population generating 97 percent of the political tweets.

The deeply involved view their social media activity as civic: They think they are helping inform their fellow citizens. In contrast, the less involved view the social media activity of the deeply involved as political: The deeply involved are expressing their opinions.

The chapter titled "The Voice of Which People?" may be the most interesting and important section of the book. It uses both existing studies and the authors' own interviews to examine the relationship between political journalism and the deeply involved. Political journalists, they note, live in "involvement bubbles": They are deeply involved and marinate in social milieus inhabited by other deeply involved citizens. When they need an "exemplar" for a story, they naturally look to someone on social media, who almost by definition does not represent the general public. (In light of that, there is something rich about Twitter trying to censor misinformation.)

Americans who are not deeply involved should read this book to get a better understanding of the people responsible for the sorry state of contemporary politics. Political journalists should read it to recognize their own malpractice.

This article originally appeared in print under the headline "America's Biggest Political Division Isn't Left vs. Right."

Start your day with Reason. Get a daily brief of the most important stories and trends every weekday morning when you subscribe to Reason Roundup.

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NEXT: The Twin Crusades Against Drugs and Guns

Morris Fiorina is a professor of political science at Stanford University and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. His most recent book is Unstable Majorities: Polarization, Party Sorting, and Political Stalemate (Hoover).

Book ReviewsPolitical SciencePolitical IdentificationPoliticsReviewsPartisanship
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  1. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian   3 years ago

    According to Koch / Reason libertarianism, the crucial divide is between billionaires (like our benefactor Charles Koch) and everyone else. We align ourselves with either "the left" or "the right" depending on which is more billionaire-friendly at any given time.

    And although this was not always the case, these days Democrats are objectively the pro-billionaire party.

    #LibertariansForBiden
    #OBLsFirstLaw

    1. Patrick Trombly   3 years ago

      Your analysis is based on the flawed assumption that one person's success necessarily comes at the expense of everyone else, through an adversarial process.

      In a free market, people become and stay billionaires by meeting consumer demand, through a series of transactions that are voluntary on everyone's part. Nobody forces anybody to buy from, sell to or work for anybody else - - either literally or constructively (e.g., nobody sells the oxygen we breathe).

      The two ways that billionaires DO benefit at the expense of everyone else are (1) inflationary monetary policy, through which the Fed devalues our wages by creating new money and injecting it into the economy by buying financial assets, which inflates the value of financial assets generally, and (2), government-erected barriers to entry. Libertarians generally oppose both (1) and (2).

      1. Rob Misek   3 years ago

        Greed makes people do wrong things.

        When everyone is chopping down the forest, you either grab your axe or freeze in winter.

        Next year, everyone freezes.

  2. Jerry B.   3 years ago

    The squeaky wheel get the attention, and the media prefers the folks who get attention, and sell papers.

    1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

      The fix is for Government Almighty to forcibly reduce political extremism, on a million issues!!! Who NEEDS more than, say, FIVE (at the most) flavors of extremism anyway?!?

      Now extremism with pistol grips or clips capable of more than 10 rapid-fire sarcastic remarks?!?! SURELY common-sense extremism control measures should just flat-out, OUTLAW such things!!!

      (The first and most obvious thing to do is get rid of Section 230, and then, next, the 1st Amendment.)

  3. Ed   3 years ago

    The ranks of the "deeply involved" would seem to be particularly easily manipulated in support of more extreme positions that would be unpalatable if promoted directly. Environmental extremists (the earth would be better off with 100 times fewer humans) promote objections to nuclear power, for instance. These trumped up objections are taken to heart and vociferously propagated by more mainstream "deeply involved" (environmentalists in this case) who don't even realize what's actually behind the objection.

    The term for these deeply involved people manipulated into adopting positions without understanding the true driving forces is "useful idiots" -- a term associated with Lenin in the Soviet Union but not really attributable to him.

    I would posit that holders of the most extreme positions, positions that most people would think "go too far", deliberately manipulate those deeply involved people most aligned with their position to push things towards the extremes without acknowledging just how extreme those ends are. The deeply involved seem to be especially fertile ground in which to plant these seeds.

    There are many examples, some more transparent than others. Abortion abolitionists talk about reasonable medical regulations to protect the mothers (so therefore we better close any clinic that's not built to hospital standards). Those who would disarm the populace talk about "reasonable" or "common sense" restrictions that grow tighter with every iteration. The extreme environmentalists put forward arguments against climate change mitigation technologies. Anti-smoking and nicotine. Anti-drug and pot hysteria (though they got their way for a while). Anti-porn and protecting children (they are getting their way now). Useful idiots seem to have been on all sides of the Covid arguments.

    The deeply involved, the useful idiots, can't wait to climb on board, arguing as loudly and vocally (and sincerely) as they can.

    (What's funny and unfortunate about this is that unless we all do our own original research, we are constantly being manipulated in this way as we confidently adopt opinions of someone else's making, for someone else's purposes. We are all someone's useful idiot.)

    1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

      Thanks, good post!

      "We are all someone’s useful idiot."

      Shows humility, which is all too rare around here! Humility is GOOD!

      Humility is a MUCH underappreciated virtue! See this: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/12/27/army-has-introduced-new-leadership-value-heres-why-it-matters.html Even in a supposedly “proud” profession, wise leaders treasure humility!

    2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

      I wonder if zealots, extremists, and those eager to subjugate themselves to a cause are born that way. And if the cause matters much less than the ways they engage. Fulfillment comes from the act of protesting and fighting, regardless of which side they support.

      If the side matters less, it might be incidental: born into a certain family or tribe induces the position taken. But the mode comes from within.

    3. Minadin   3 years ago

      My upstairs neighbor gal who organized local get-out-the-vote volunteers for Elizabeth Warren's campaign is easily the stupidest person I know.

      But that's only because I haven't met Elizabeth Warren.

    4. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

      The term for these deeply involved people manipulated into adopting positions without understanding the true driving forces is “useful idiots” — a term associated with Lenin in the Soviet Union but not really attributable to him.

      CRT is just about teaching that slavery happened.

      1. Ed   3 years ago

        Another interesting example is the recent item about how the early plastics industry cynically promoted those little recycling number things to make consumers more comfortable throwing away all those single-use containers, all the while knowing that recycling would never be really workable.

        So which is the lie? That the industry actually was manipulating us way back when with those little numbers as part of a campaign to get us to accept single-use plastics? Or was the lie the "revelation" that the industry's support for numbering was designed from the beginning to manipulate us? Both stories have at least some plausibility...

        I am kind of in awe at how the deeply involved can so confidently latch onto a position with so much bullshit constantly swirling around them (us).

    5. BigT   3 years ago

      Those deeply involved are the most self-righteous. That’s why they are deeply involved - they want to fix the rest of us for our own good.

      When in doubt, reach for Mencken:

      The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.

      Or C S Lewis:

      “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

  4. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

    "Political journalists, they note, live in "involvement bubbles": They are deeply involved and marinate in social milieus inhabited by other deeply involved citizens. When they need an "exemplar" for a story, they naturally look to someone on social media, who almost by definition does not represent the general public."

    Maybe there can be some soul searching about how the staff of Reason (especially those responsible for the daily Roundup put together their articles)?

    1. Vernon Depner   3 years ago

      What souls?

      1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        Exactly. They were mean to Trump which means they're leftists, and since leftists aren't human beings that means they have no souls.

        1. BigT   3 years ago

          No one has a soul. Leftists have no ethics.

    2. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

      The whole point of the morning roundup is to link to a bunch of news and tweets to discuss over morning coffee.

      1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

        Cite?

        1. Think It Through   3 years ago

          lol

      2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        It's almost like White Mike is ENB he stans so hard.

      3. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        I thought the purpose was for commentors to provide links to the articles Reason didn't cover and say that that's proof that they're all leftists.

        1. R Mac   3 years ago

          A secondary purpose is to laugh at all the stupid shit people like you and Dee post.

          1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

            It’s the main purpose.

            1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

              Even if it wasn't, it ends up being the main result.

        2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

          That and so the mentally challenged who have been kicked off of every other forum can hurl childish insults to make them feel better about themselves.

          1. R Mac   3 years ago

            Sarc never hurls insults.

          2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            "the mentally challenged who have been kicked off of every other forum"

            Hahahaha... oh wow!

            Hey Sarc, how come you're not posting at Glibertarians anymore? Especially after you made such a huge deal about leaving this place permanently for there.

            Son of a bitch, talk about no memory or self-awareness.

            1. JesseAz   3 years ago

              All he does is project.

            2. sarcasmic   3 years ago (edited)

              Hey Sarc, how come you’re not posting at Glibertarians anymore?

              Because they have their own thing going and it’s at certain times of the day. So I’m always too late to the conversation. Timing more than anything.

              Especially after you made such a huge deal about leaving this place permanently for there.

              Then Reason introduced the mute function which means I no longer have to read the turds you and your girlfriends obsessively leave on my posts. It also has an on-off function. So when you and your girlfriends sneer "You said you muted me! You said you muted me! Liar! Liar! You said you muted me!" that simply means that someone used the off button.

              Son of a bitch, talk about no memory or self-awareness.

              You’re a poopy-head.

              1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

                "Timing more than anything."

                Funny way to say you were booted.

                "you and your girlfriends obsessively leave on my posts. It also has an on-off function. So when you and your girlfriends sneer"

                You should try reading this again when you're sober. You sound like a guy who just got a wedgie from Stan Gable.

        3. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

          That, too.

    3. InsaneTrollLogic   3 years ago

      ENB, soul searching? Surely you must be joking. If she were into soul searching for the daily roundup, we wouldn’t see so many Blue Check Twitteristas mentioned.

      1. Utkonos   3 years ago

        I just now did some serious soul searching Reason-style (I entered #Soul into the Twitter search feed). Looks like a bunch of damn Hip Hop artists to me. Hope that helps….

    4. rev-arthur-l-kuckland   3 years ago

      How to reason roundup
      Step one check all bue checkmark sources
      Step 2 post what they say
      Step 3 dox people that call you out for being a lying progressive

      1. TheReEncogitationer   3 years ago (edited)

        No “Step 4. Make sammiches”? 😉

        1. Social Justice is neither   3 years ago

          That's a doxing.

  5. NoVaNick   3 years ago

    Interesting how most partisan activists attended elite liberal arts colleges. You would think they would be too smart and have better things to do with their time than post angry tweets about the other side. Then again, it was the decadence of the elite that brought down the Roman Empire.

    1. TJJ2000   3 years ago

      Learning how to *parrot* indoctrination (textbook) has always been just a practical guide to develop ignorance. Awarding the parrots with status-symbols just puts more arrogance into their ignorance.

      When you find an "elite arts college graduate" who isn't so ignorant and arrogant that they can LEARN from reality; you've made history.

    2. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

      Could it be that most "elite liberal arts colleges" long ago gave up on teaching critical thinking, with professors who challenged whatever students might say?

    3. InsaneTrollLogic   3 years ago

      If you want critical thinking, you go to a STEM college, not a liberal arts college.

      1. rev-arthur-l-kuckland   3 years ago (edited)

        You haven’t been paying attention for the last 10 years. The socialists have taken over stem too

    4. John C. Randolph   3 years ago

      In colleges, there are those who are working towards useful, marketable skills, and those who are just wasting the taxpayers' money on bullshit credentials and have the time to waste making a nuisance of themselves.

      We are far too lenient with snotty little cunts who do things like impede traffic or pour excrement over heroes' monuments for attention.

      -jcr

  6. TJJ2000   3 years ago

    Deep Involvement stems from...
    1) AGGRESSIVE (i.e. Progressive Gov-GUNS) -- Being an O.C.D. inflicted Power-Mad wanna-be tyrannical dictator who believes their building of [WE]-gangs who totes Gov-GUNS can fix everything.

    Is it really any wonder they champion their "democracy" above Liberty or Justice? If they didn't have "democratic" oppression to champion they'd have to come out of closet and champion their dictative "tyranny".

    2) DEFENSIVE.. Self-Defensively from having #1 GUNS pointed at them too many times.

    The "others" --- DISMISSIVE.. The one's lucky enough to have remained off of #1's Power-Mad crusade hit-list enough not to find a need to be "deeply involved".

  7. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

    The opposite of activist is libertarian. Discuss.

    1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

      A real libertarian is "activist" only with self-defensive or other-defensive violence if any violence at all, and proportional (actual, real) violence only, if then! All OTHER "libertarian activism" is done ONLY with words alone, to willing listeners! Shouting into the faces of unwilling listeners isn't just non-libertarian, it is also counter-productive.

      "Both sides" offend here... Woke-ists shout down speakers that they don't like. Rightists want to tear down Section 230, to FORCE web site owners to carry their in-your-face shouts into the faces of unwilling listeners!

  8. Jefferson's Ghost   3 years ago

    This seems to hearken back to the idea of the "silent majority," meaning that most folks, or a least most voters, weren't obsessed with party politics as were those on the extreme sides of any given issue. In short: nothing really new about today, excepting the technology which gives a voice to many more individuals on any side of an issue. This would also explain why national polls fairly consistently show that more people identify as "independent," and not a strong supporter of either major political party.

    1. mtrueman   3 years ago

      "This would also explain why national polls fairly consistently show that more people identify as “independent,” and not a strong supporter of either major political party."

      Isn't it possible that someone could be both independent and deeply involved in politics? Partisanship is more about tribalism than a deep interest in politics.

      1. Jefferson's Ghost   3 years ago

        "Isn’t it possible that someone could be both independent and deeply involved in politics? Partisanship is more about tribalism than a deep interest in politics."

        Absolutely. Just because one's political positions aren't reflected in the two major parties does not mean one is not passionate about them.

    2. Longtobefree   3 years ago

      The major benefit of registering "independent" is it greatly reduces the political solicitations you receive in the mail.

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        Also keeps you off an FBI list.

      2. Jefferson's Ghost   3 years ago

        I hadn't thought of that! Definitely a plus.

      3. InsaneTrollLogic   3 years ago

        Sometimes. I get loads of junk mail from both.

  9. Mother's Lament   3 years ago (edited)

    There are other important axis at play. Authoritarian vs libertarian permeates everything, which is why a libertarian party is such a dumb idea. All parties and philosophies should incorporate libertarian principles.

    1. Jefferson's Ghost   3 years ago

      +

    2. InsaneTrollLogic   3 years ago

      +1

    3. Sevo   3 years ago

      "...All parties and philosophies should incorporate libertarian principles."

      Yes, but that would mean TDS addled assholes like, oh, Brandyshit would have to look at actual results rather than the party affiliation.

    4. Union of Concerned Socks   3 years ago

      All parties and philosophies should incorporate libertarian principles.

      And yet almost none do. Maybe a libertarian party isn't such a dumb idea after all.

      1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        The solution to people not cleaning their teeth isn't to form a political party advocating for it. Libertarianism is self-evident and a natural law, not a political stance... or it should be.

        1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

          MammaryBahnFuhrer defines "libertarianism" ass follows: (What a surprise!)

          Lusts-after-your-web-sites Marxist “Christian Theological Expert” MammaryBahnFuhrer thinks that one of the Ten Commandments reads as follows:

          Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s. Unless thy neighbor art a corporatist in Thine Righteous Eyes, in which case, Thou shalt steal ALL of their stuff & shit, howsoever Thy Power-Hungry Right-Wing Wrong-Nut Marxist Heart may desire.

          1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

            Go away, Nazi.

            1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

              Develop a healthy and functioning conscience, Ye Perfect Necrophiliac!

      2. Nobartium   3 years ago

        They don't because on a fundamental level, freedom is an aberration. ML is right, an libertarian party is a waste of resources, but maybe the Mises Caucus will actually break history.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          Libertarian parties have advocated to bake the cake, be anti racist, help out Dems with their party run choices, etc. They do this to try and garner favorable coverage from an order captured media system.

          Mises seems more inclined to run on principled stances instead of Dem lite.

          1. Social Justice is neither   3 years ago

            Ot they are really progressives with a couple of items they disagree with the orthodoxy on and this is the only place they could land until their reeducation is complete.

    5. sarcasmic   3 years ago

      “Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.”

      ― Robert A. Heinlein

      The battle between left and right isn't between liberty and control, it's over what will be controlled and by whom.

    6. The Margrave of Azilia   3 years ago

      "All parties and philosophies should incorporate libertarian principles."

      And I have some ideas for doing that, just as soon as I've patented my unicorn-fart-propelled helicopter.

    7. BigT   3 years ago

      Libertarians are passionately and actively inactive.

  10. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

    Old news by now, but I'm still bothered by the greenies' religiosity when it comes to hurricanes and wildfires. Every time there's a disaster, it serves as confirmation bias that we are all sinners. They blame our sin for causing this disaster-global warming, which is the fault of humans exploiting the earth, is making disasters more frequent and more deadly.

    And it's the most base superstition of primitive humans. "If only we had been more virtuous, we would be spared." It's given the exact same scrutiny as "We have angered the earth gods and this is our punishment." It's simply taken as truth and is unfalsifiable for them.

    You can't see it when you live inside of that mental bubble, I guess, but as an outsider, it's quite disturbing. I prefer to think that the advance of science, increased understanding of natural processes, and simple access to information would decrease this base sort of impulse, but it appears endemic. People attempt to force a mental framework that encapsulates everything so it's all boiled down to a base cause, a first mover responsible for everything. Then you can just cite the same response for everything you're unhappy about-blame the gods, as it were. Or thank them, perhaps.

    One of the sad things about this green religiosity is that it's all damnations and no blessings. Everything is evil, and it's all about limiting evil, there's no redemptions, and there's no miracles to uplift you. It's self-flagellation until the problem goes away, except it's impossible to make this problem go away because everything is confirmation bias. There always will be wildfires or hurricanes or monsoons or tornadoes or just unusually hot days, so there's no path to salvation in this religion.

    1. Michael Ejercito   3 years ago

      I wonder if yhey heard of the trope "Let Me Ne Evil".

    2. mtrueman   3 years ago

      "They blame our sin for causing this disaster-global warming"

      No, climate scientists blame CO2 in the atmosphere for global warming. It's a heat trapping gas, and increasing the amount will trap more heat. That's where the warming comes in. It's based on science: actions have consequences and is observed and measured. If anyone can be said to have a religious take on the issue, it's those who reject this notion of actions and consequences, and appeal to magical thinking.

      1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

        You're not even close to grasping what I'm talking about. It's how every thing that happens is the result of global warming: wildfires, drought, hurricanes (which are NOT growing more severe or stronger, we actually had a slight downturn in hurricane severity for 3-4 years), heat waves.

        They just state, as a fact, with no evidence, that hurricanes are going to continue to grow in severity. Most of the US was hit with a 20 year heatwave, and newscasters and politicians just stated as an unprovable fact that "This summer will still be cooler than most of the summers for the rest of your life." You can't assert that, you can't know that, and it's fucking unlikely because it was so unusually hot; global warming isn't increasing annually by full degrees each year. It's not even going up by a degree each decade, so a correction back to the norm is extremely likely for the next several years.

        But you can't tell people that because they have a religious belief that global warming is causing the heat waves, it's causing the hurricanes, it's causing the fires. They're 100% certain even though there's no clear causal chain. And when you point this out, they just say, "Are you denying science!?" like you did.

        1. mtrueman   3 years ago

          "They"

          Who is 'they?' In your first post it was environmentalists. Now it's politicians and journalists. I don't think you've thought this through and are simply parroting talking points you've picked up from the internet or tv.

          " They’re 100% certain even though there’s no clear causal chain."

          Science deals in preponderance of evidence. It's not like math with its proofs or law with its beyond a reasonable doubt. Heat is a contributing factor to wildfires, they are more likely to occur in the summer. Are more heat trapping gases in the atmosphere more likely or less likely to contribute to increased wild fires? Remember, actions have consequences, and magical thinking isn't going to cut it.

          1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

            Who is ‘they?’ In your first post it was environmentalists. Now it’s politicians and journalists.

            Yes? Are these things mutually exclusive? Are you interested in this discussion, or are you trying to engage in pure sophistry?

            I've let you engage me this far, but if you're not bringing any substantive, I will no longer respond.

            1. mtrueman   3 years ago

              They aren't. But they are not the same either. There are journalists who make a career out of denying or minimizing the positions of environmentalists. John Stossel had such a column about hurricanes only a few days ago.

              "I will no longer respond."

              This doesn't surprise me. When challenged with facts, dogmatists retreat into silence or name calling.

              1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                No they don't, you poopy-head!

              2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 

              3. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                Yeah? Wanna see some silent treatment? Try this bitch!

                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                 
                How's that, huh?

                1. Ted   3 years ago

                  Some of the most brilliant shot you’ve ever posted!

              4. BigT   3 years ago

                I’ve done my own evaluation of hurricanes. The only reliable data that goes back very far is the number of hurricanes that make landfall in the USA, available since just after the Civil War.

                The number has a slight downward slope for ALL categories of storms.

                The most active decade was the 90’s…

                …the 1890’s.

                No correlation with the various measures of temperature.

                1. Think It Through   3 years ago

                  Can you provide more detail? Where did you find the hurricane data? What are your findings, after analyzing the data?

            2. R Mac   3 years ago

              “Are you interested in this discussion, or are you trying to engage in pure sophistry?”

              First time trying to engage mtrueman?

              1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

                I guess I'm shocked that, after being called out for sophistry, he just doubled down on the exact same point. In my previous experiences with sophists, after you call them out, they pivot to a completely different semantic argument. He just barreled on ahead, completely unfazed.

                I do try to give people the benefit of the doubt that they have something worth saying. It would be helpful if they'd actually express it, though.

                1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

                  Just block him. He's one of the few who truly is not worth engaging with. He's admitted before to simply choose arguments to cause the most consternation. He's a troll.

                  1. mtrueman   3 years ago

                    Name calling and retreat to silence. You've learned your lessons well.

                    1. Sevo   3 years ago

                      Eat shit and die, steaming pile of lefty shit.

                    2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                      What you call "retreat to silence" might mean "has a life."

                    3. mtrueman   3 years ago

                      "What you call “retreat to silence” might mean “has a life.”

                      It means intellectual cowardice, no mights about it.

                    4. Red Rocks White Privilege   3 years ago

                      It means intellectual cowardice, no mights about it.

                      LOL, you parroted the Dee Brown thesis and were completely ignorant about it until I pointed out the book to you.

                  2. Sevo   3 years ago

                    I find many not willing to offer anything like honest argument, so they typically get grayed-out, and trueman is certainly worthy of it:

                    mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|#
                    "Spouting nonsense is an end in itself."

                    That's his comment, totally unedited; he is one stupid, smug pile of shit.

                2. Red Rocks White Privilege   3 years ago

                  I guess I’m shocked that, after being called out for sophistry, he just doubled down on the exact same point. In my previous experiences with sophists, after you call them out, they pivot to a completely different semantic argument. He just barreled on ahead, completely unfazed.

                  This is the same guy who parroted the Dee Brown thesis on western expansionism, and didn't even realize it until I pointed out that he wasn't saying anything different that wasn't already explicated in "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee."

                  1. mtrueman   3 years ago

                    Climate scientists aren't motivated by religiosity and superstition, and if you believe that, you're a bigger fool than I'll ever be. Once again, are more heat trapping gases in the atmosphere more likely or less likely to contribute to increased wild fires?

                    You won't answer the question, of course.

                  2. mtrueman   3 years ago

                    "I pointed out that he wasn’t saying anything different that wasn’t already explicated in “Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee.”

                    I read that book many years ago. Thanks for reminding me. If you liked that one, you may enjoy "Empire of the Summer Moon" about the rise and fall of the Comanche nation, which I read more recently. More recently still is "Our History is the Future" about the Sioux struggle against the pipeline at Standing Rock. You probably won't like this one because it's not reactionary enough for your tastes, but still, I found it worth a read.

              2. mtrueman   3 years ago

                Trying to engage? I asked a simple question, Are more heat trapping gases in the atmosphere more likely or less likely to contribute to increased wild fires?

                All I get in return is retreat into silence or insults for my impertinence. A refusal to consider the evidence or follow the facts. No different from the religious dogmatists you claim you oppose.

                1. Sevo   3 years ago

                  "...All I get in return is retreat into silence or insults for my impertinence..."

                  It's spelled "stupidity", asshole.

                2. Mike Laursen   3 years ago (edited)

                  The right-wingers who hang out here don’t like to be asked questions.

                  They call asking questions about their echo-chamber beliefs “sealioning”, which is about as nonsensical an idea as “cultural appropriation”.

                  1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

                    Cite?

                  2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                    The right-wingers have embraced using the enemy's tactics and strategies.

                    That includes zero tolerance for questioning groupthink.

            3. JesseAz   3 years ago

              Most of the talking on climate science comes from the political section of the IPCC report after all.

      2. JesseAz   3 years ago (edited)

        What type of curve do you think heating is from carbon? My guess is you believe linear instead of logarithmic. It is the latter.

        Even assuming perfect absorption from carbon a doubling of carbon would add 0.7 C of heating. This requires not only perfect absorption, which doesn’t happen, but also a constant volume of the atmosphere, also doesn’t happen.

        Yet the models predict 3C plus due to feedbacks. So one would assume feedback constants would be the same between models right? Nope. The feedback terms basically serve as knobs to polygon past Temps into the system. It has become so difficult to do so countries like Australia are even changing historical records to match what models say should have been the temp.

        On top of that historical Temps are largely covering less than 10% of the globe more than 100 years back. So historical data is also largely flawed.

        Ice cores you say? Remelt from summer during history merges ice cores unto roughly 40 to 50 year bands, making ice cores trend worthy for analysis only, not year by year estimates like climate scientists want to compare to for growth rates.

        Do you want me to continue on climate science?

        1. mtrueman   3 years ago

          I'm not sure what you are trying to say about climate science. We've known about the heat trapping character of CO2 for almost 200 years, observed and measured its increase in the environment and observed and measured increases in temperatures over the same time period. What more can you ask of science?

          There is always room for improvement. Bigger statistical samples, more funding, more modern lab equipment, better understanding of what's of consequence and what can be ignored, faster computers, more realistic modelling, larger research staff, more cooperative administrators and so on. This not only applies to climate science but any science. The idea that shortcomings in climate science research is the result of fraud and stupidity is cheap jack cynicism and disingenuous. I reject it just like the other ridiculous contention that climate science is a religion.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Yes. I know you have no clue about the actual science behind climate science. That was the entire point of my post. Thank you for proving it.

            1. mtrueman   3 years ago

              I never claimed to have knowledge of the actual science behind climate change. I know what logic is, though, that's what I've got to work with, however much you resent it.

              There's going to be uncertainties in the data, and the methods. Any experiment or measurement could be improved upon, but let me say it again, preponderance of evidence - now, are increased amounts of heat trapping gases in the atmosphere more or less likely to contribute to increased wild fires?

              1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                Logic is learning about something before discussing it. What you did here is not logical. It is closer to rhetorical where you ask unrelated questions to push a narrative you yourself admit to know nothing about. That is not logic.

                1. mtrueman   3 years ago

                  "What you did here is not logical. It is closer to rhetorical where you ask unrelated questions to push a narrative you yourself admit to know nothing about."

                  You need to read the original comment I was responding to. It mentions specifically wild fires and their relation or non relation to climate change. It is entirely related. I can read and understand English. For all your admirable scientific prowess, that skill apparently eludes you.

                  1. JimboJr   3 years ago

                    Looks like trueman is getting slapped around with facts, per usual.

                    Surprising to see him more ignorant about a topic than he was on COVID, but damned if he doesn't still have 100% confidence while making assertions about it anyways.

                    All the signs of internet sophistry. And when he is made a fool he never admits, he pivots on to the next talking point. Looks like he took some notes from Jeff here.

                    1. mtrueman   3 years ago

                      All the signs of intellectual cowardice. Insults and the refusal to answer simple questions.

    3. CE   3 years ago

      They view humanity as a pesitlence on the Earth, but then they are the same people clamoring for lockdowns and vaccine and mask mandates it they might increase their own chances of surviving by 0.5 percent.

      1. mtrueman   3 years ago

        "They view humanity as a pesitlence on the Earth"

        It's not environmentalists who wring their hands over immigration, the poor and their shithole countries. That view of humanity is characteristic of reactionaries who tend to deny or minimize our impact on the environment.

        1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

          It’s exactly environmentalists who wring their hands over immigration, the poor and their shithole countries, which is why they've fought tooth and nail to prevent industrialization and energy production in those countries with bribes and fearmongering.

          The Sri Lankan farming collapse due to fertilizer bans is a prime example.

          1. mtrueman   3 years ago

            "It’s exactly environmentalists who wring their hands over immigration"

            You think that Trump and the build the wall folks are environmentalists? You bring new meaning to magical thinking. Sri Lanka's policies are set by politicians and the corporations that pull their strings. Their environmentalism doesn't extend much further than market based solutions like carbon credits, which actually increase the problems they were supposedly meant to alleviate.

            1. Gaear Grimsrud   3 years ago

              "Their environmentalism doesn’t extend much further than market based solutions like carbon credits"
              Really?
              https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/07/15/sri-lanka-collapses-and-dutch-farmers-revolt-blame-green-policies/
              "The tension has been brewing for a long time. Last December, Sri Lanka’s government banned chemical fertilizers to force the country to move toward organic and environmentally friendly farming.
              The results have been catastrophic.
              After only seven months, the government was forced to revoke the program as crop yields plummeted and food prices skyrocketed. The New York Times reported that rice prices shot up by nearly one-third, while prices for vegetables rose five times what they were the year before.
              Starving and unable to find relief, Sri Lankans began to rise up and revolt against their climate-obsessed government. On July 9, thousands converged on the presidential residence and stormed the gates. The president wisely fled, promising to resign, and finally did so on Thursday."

              Yeah banning fertilizer. Just a little market based tinkering. JFC.

              1. Sevo   3 years ago

                mtrueman|8.30.17 @ 1:42PM|#
                “Spouting nonsense is an end in itself.”

                Copied with no editing at all; that's trueman's exact words.

                1. R Mac   3 years ago

                  I was trying to remember this quote earlier for a thinking mind.

              2. mtrueman   3 years ago

                "Yeah banning fertilizer. Just a little market based tinkering. JFC."

                It's not over yet. Watch who swoops in and gets to pick up all the pieces, and keep them. It won't be your scary environmentalists, either. It'll be people like Richard Branson, who when not crashing air balloons, makes a fortune out of speaking about climate change, while his businesses burn more and more fossil fuels. I confess I haven't followed the Sri Lanka thing very closely, but it seems to follow a pattern dating back to the earliest days of capitalism, the land clearances of Scotland.

                1. Red Rocks White Privilege   3 years ago

                  I confess I haven’t followed the Sri Lanka thing very closely

                  You sure had no problem spouting your side's narrative on it, though, despite your ignorance. A notable pattern with your comments.

                2. JimboJr   3 years ago

                  "I confess I haven’t followed the Sri Lanka thing very closely"

                  What a surprise, you have done no research into a major event that your political tribe wishes to sweep under the rug.

                  1. mtrueman   3 years ago

                    "What a surprise, you have done no research into a major event that your political tribe wishes to sweep under the rug."

                    It shouldn't surprise you. There are many areas where I am not conversant in. I'm not the all knowing genius you take me for.

            2. Mother's Lament   3 years ago (edited)

              You just pretended that environmentalist fascism wasn’t a root cause of migration. Now you’re trying to redirect and whatabout.

              Hey Sarc, time for some education. This is what whataboutism actually is. Bringing in the incidental or unrelated in order to deflect or redirect, rather than pointing out actual hypocrisy. If Trump and friends had painted themselves as defenders of the environment then Mtrueman would have had a point. But they didn’t, so it’s a whatabout.

              1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

                There's also a lot of pollution outsourcing. They still want their internet and iphones and AC, but they don't want to mine for coal, gas, or oil. That gets outsourced to Russia, the Middle East, and places like Venezuela. They also don't want hydroplants or nuclear to get us less reliant on fossil fuels, so they don't have those dirty things in their backyards.

                They don't want their cars to run on gasoline so they buy electric, and outsource the pollution the plant. Nobody is mining for the rare earths necessary for lithium batteries in California or New York, they just outsource that to China and other countries. They think Solar is the answer without looking at the actual costs of building a solar infrastructure which requires storing more energy than we've ever stored before, without mining for the resources necessary to create batteries.

                It's hypocrisy and magical beliefs all the way. They think that since they have such pure beliefs it has to be right, it can't actually be worse than the thing they KNOW is dirty. Nevermind that we've invested 70 years of developing in learning how to burn coal as cleanly as possible and they're going to have to wait a few decades for new technologies to try to catch up, they have to have it now. If not, they're sinning in the eyes of the earth gods.

                1. InsaneTrollLogic   3 years ago

                  Exactly. They greenwash and try to sweep their pollution out of sight and out of their minds. Someone else's problem somewhere else. For they care not if some "brown" people get injured by the pollution they outsource. They just don't have to see it and breathe it. They can show off to the world how green they are with an electric car. Meanwhile, they cause others, local and global, to suffer for their own actions. What a bunch of racist hypocrites.

                2. mtrueman   3 years ago

                  "They don’t want their cars to run on gasoline so they buy electric, and outsource the pollution the plant."

                  This is the problem, isn't it? If on the other hand, you want your car to run on gasoline, and buy a gasoline burner, you Still end up out sourcing a whole mess of pollution, all over the world, land and sea alike. It's hypocrisy and magical thinking to think otherwise.

              2. sarcasmic   3 years ago (edited)

                Hypocrisy is in the eye of the beholder. As a general rule the person screaming “Whatabout” righteously believes what they are pointing out is hypocritical. Your argument is that when you think it’s important then it’s not “Whataboutism,” and if someone calls it such they’re [insert standard attack on other tribe]. Essentially your argument is an ad hominem because it's at the person, not what they are saying.

                1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago (edited)

                  No, Sarcasmic. They aren't in the eye of the beholder. There's clear and comprehensive definitions about what those terms mean.
                  Making up your own definitions of what hypocrisy, whataboutism and ad hominem are, doesn’t count.

    4. Longtobefree   3 years ago

      Speaking of hurricanes being so much worse - - - - - -
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Hurricane_of_1780

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        Columbus’s second (maybe third?, it’s been awhile since I read about it) trip across the Atlantic saw him spend most of his time stuck on land because it was such an active hurricane season.

    5. John C. Randolph   3 years ago

      At least they can't get away with human sacrifice to appease their superstitions now.

      Oh, wait.

      -jcr

    6. mpercy   3 years ago

      “2006: Expect Another Big Hurricane Year Says NOAA”—headline, MongaBay .com, May 22, 2006

      “NOAA Predicts Above Normal 2007 Atlantic Hurricane Season”—headline, National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration press release, May 23, 2007

      “NOAA Increases Expectancy for Above-Normal 2008 Atlantic Hurricane Season”—headline, gCaptain .com, Aug. 7, 2008

      “Forecasters: 2009 to Bring ‘Above Average’ Hurricane Season”—headline, CNN, Dec. 10, 2008

      “NOAA: 2010 Hurricane Season May Set Records”—headline, Herald-Tribune (Sarasota, Fla.), May 28, 2010

      “NOAA Predicts Increased Storm Activity in 2011 Hurricane Season”—headline, BDO Consulting press release, Aug. 18, 2011

      “2012 Hurricane Forecast Update: More Storms Expected”—headline, LiveScience, Aug. 9, 2012

      “NOAA Predicts Active 2013 Atlantic Hurricane Season”—headline, NOAApress release, May 23, 2013

      “A Space-Based View of 2015’s ‘Hyperactive’ Hurricane Season”—headline, CityLab .com, June 19, 2015

      “The 2016 Atlantic Hurricane Season Might Be the Strongest in Years”—headline, CBSNews, Aug. 11, 2016

      “NOAA: U.S. Completes Record 11 Straight Years Without Major Hurricane Strike”—headline, CNSNews, Oct. 24, 2016

  11. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

    LEFT + RIGHT = ZERO

    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      That's just Hihnsane. (RIP sweet prince)

      1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

        RIP my precious cinnamon roll.

      2. This Is The Zodiac Speaking   3 years ago

        Is he dead?

  12. mtrueman   3 years ago

    "Not surprisingly, the deeply involved are much more likely to use social media. "

    Using social media is hardly deep involvement in politics. It's about as shallow as one can get. Deeper involvement is going to meetings, fund raising, lobbying, demonstrating, blockading, insurrecting and rioting. Posting a tweet doesn't measure up.

  13. rev-arthur-l-kuckland   3 years ago

    I remember a specific side saying the personal is political for a while now...

    1. InsaneTrollLogic   3 years ago

      Usually they have a party that starts with the letter D.

  14. Union of Concerned Socks   3 years ago

    Oh goody, another column about who's flinging shit, whom they're flinging it at, why they're flinging it, and how to get in on the shit flinging.

    None of that nonsense about fundamental individual rights, free markets, or the purpose of government. Yawn.

    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

      The article to me is more about forcing a docile populace to allow the shit to continue to get worse. These takes of being non activists are fairly new to help democrats and their slow ratchet of government.

      At some point a principled person needs to undo the ratcheting of the loss of their freedoms. This article argues against it.

  15. CE   3 years ago

    Polarization isn't a narrative, it's what's happening. The only "both sides" is the left getting more strident and more extreme, and the right getting more extreme by fighting back.

    A large portion of American citizens don't vote, don't care who wins, and are generally not well informed. But they don't vote or donate to candidates or causes, so they have little impact on what happens. It's like they say about dental care: ignore your teeth and they will go away. If you ignore politics, politics won't ignore you.

    1. mtrueman   3 years ago

      "But they don’t vote or donate to candidates or causes, so they have little impact on what happens. "

      I suspect that many don't vote because they correctly realize and understand just how little impact voting has on what happens. Unlike those who do vote, whether out of an expression of tribal loyalty, or the naive belief that their vote will have a substantial impact on their lives or anything else that matters to them.

  16. Minadin   3 years ago

    Admittedly not related to the topic of this post, but I just came across this on YouTube:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSOkmOqnteU

    Former narc officer in Texas who became an anti-drug-war activist set up a private sting to prove that the cops were lying on warrant affidavits. Ended up freeing a woman who was falsely accused, and convicted, based on a 'confidential informant' planting drugs in her car. She was in jail for 4 years.

    Law enforcement ended up harassing this man and his family so badly that they fled to South America.

    1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

      Good video!

      Since you brought up a police topic, I watched the bodycam of that shooting in San Antonio from a couple of days ago. It's terrible-it's like what a libertarian would write as a parody of an unjustified police shooting.

      "I recognize this car, it fled from me a couple of days ago." Yanks open the door, yells at the teenager sitting inside eating a cheeseburger, orders him to exit. When he starts his car and drives away, without endangering anyone else, the officer opens fire on the fleeing vehicle, injuring the driver and endangering several others in the area.

      1. Minadin   3 years ago

        That's nuts. Cops are out of control.

      2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        A car is a deadly weapon, and failure to obey is the same as threatening. So we've got someone threatening police with a deadly weapon. They had no choice but to open fire.

        /how cops really think

        1. Minadin   3 years ago

          I don't always agree with sarc, but sometimes you just have to.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Ask him about the Capitol cops on J6 and he defends them.

            1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

              No I don't. The evil man who murdered Saint Babbitt woke up that morning and thought to himself "What is the most evil thing I can do today? I know! I'll shoot a peaceful tourist for no reason at all!"

              And that's what he did.

              Evil, evil man. So evil. Did I mention he's evil? Yeah, he's evil.

              1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

                Do you ever bruise your knuckles beating up on the straw men?

                1. sarcasmic   3 years ago (edited)

                  Did it ever occur to you that someone with the handle “sarcasmic” might make a sarcastic post?

                  Think!

                  1. VULGAR MADMAN   3 years ago

                    Claiming you were just being sarcastic, is certainly convenient when you’re just too cowardly to defend a position.

                    1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                      Insisting that someone was serious when it's obvious that they were not (who really uses the word "evil" that many times while being serious?) is either dishonest or stupid. If you are stupid then I apologize. You don't know better.

                    2. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

                      Insisting that someone was serious when it’s obvious that they were not

                      That's kind of the point he was making. You DO have a position, but you can't defend it, so the only thing you do is sarcastically represent a strawman of an opposing position because you have nothing to say in defense of your own position. And when called out on the lack of anything to say, you fall back to "I'm just joking."

                      It's a waste of everyone's time. Either you don't care about anything, in which case you wouldn't say anything, or you do care but don't have any defensible position.

                    3. Sevo   3 years ago

                      Pretty sure it's stupidity, not cowardice.

                    4. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                      I rarely say what my position is. You infer what you want to believe based upon your sacred cows I'm shooting arrows at, but you don't know what I think. And you don't care. Because it's more fun to make stuff up and call me a liar when I disagree with the voices in your head.

                    5. sarcasmic   3 years ago

                      If you want to know my position on something, ask.

                      Don't tell me what I think and then call me a liar when I disagree.

        2. ducksalad   3 years ago

          In Texas, driving away from a traffic stop before the officer has said you can go carries a maximum penalty of 10 years.

          I know someone - frail woman, almost 60 - who was pulled over for running a red light near home. She handed over her driver's license and insurance, then the officer asked her to move her car to a side street to be out of traffic while the officer finished writing the ticket. She thought (admittedly not thinking clearly) it would be OK to drive to her own driveway a few miles away instead, since the cop had the address and was right behind her anyway.

          Third degree felony charge: "evading arrest in a motor vehicle". $15,000 bail, which had to be posted 100% by cashier's check, after spending one week in jail. Still waiting for the grand jury to issue the indictment, and facing up to 10 years in prison. Hopefully there will be some kind of plea deal offered.

  17. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    It's as if the right has embraced the left's motto of diversity in everything except ideas.

  18. Roberta   3 years ago

    we have partisan polarization within an electorate that has not changed much.... Debates continue over such matters as whether the sorting is top-down or bottom-up (the latter is a minority view, but one held by some serious scholars)

    I'm amazed that the bottom-up explanation isn't the majority one. I can't see how the sorting could be sustained without a bottom-up drive, though I can see how there'd be some top-down positive feedback.

    1. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

      Yeah, this is the point. If there was no demand for outrage journalism, it wouldn't exist. People love reasons to hate the opposition, so that type of media does really well. If it didn't do well, it would be competitively destroyed by the more moderate or reasonable messaging.

      That's another pill to swallow-no matter how much we want to talk about a shared humanity, people really like excuses to identify enemies that need destroying.

  19. Roberta   3 years ago

    "the middle"...is heterogeneous, comprising not just moderates but cross-pressured libertarians and populists....

    .
    Still going by the Maddox-Lilie use of "populists", I see. I hope you realize it was a usage of convenience and desperation, since they wanted a short term as a label for authoritarians descending from a liberal democratic tradition, as distinguished from the hard-core European authoritarians. "Populist" is still best understood as a style, not a tendency, let alone an ideology. Even "authoritarian" isn't an ideology, since there are practically none who value it for its own sake rather than just falling out that way expediently.

  20. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

    It's the superpolitical vs. everyone else.

    And you know which end of the political spectrum the superpolitical tends to be, right?

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

      The personal is political, also termed The private is political, is a political argument used as a rallying slogan of student movement and second-wave feminism from the late 1960s. In the context of the feminist movement of the 1960s and 1970s, it was a challenge to the nuclear family and family values.

      1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

        Nuclear family? My family would LIKE to be a nuclear family, butt Government Almighty over-regulating purists FORCE my family to be an oil-gas-and-coal family, since green unicorn farts aren't working yet, and maybe never will...

    2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago (edited)

      At its best, this insistence on the idea that the “personal is political” transformed consciousness by insisting on the need to understand the social, economic, cultural, and political oppression of women as the basis for all “personal” problems that afflicted individual women. At its most extreme, however, it could also lead to a rigid understanding of feminism that insisted that no person could fight a form of oppression he or she did not personally experience.

      All of this also flows into “systemic racism” and ‘toxic whiteness” where everything one does (if one is white– or benefitting from white structures of oppressions thus suffering from “internalized whiteness” and… )

      Whoa… do I really need to go on, here?

      There’s a reason why CRT has received a strong backlash from nominally ‘non-political’ normies at school board meetings. THEY didn’t try to make their child’s education political, someone else did. And when the press mocks these parents with defensive knife wounds on their hands when they try to fight back… yeah, that’s not everyone becoming super-political. That’s one side, and one side ONLY making everything super-political, and everyone else beginning to resist.

  21. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

    Spiked-online, as usual, has something to say on this subject.

    When culture becomes propaganda
    Stalinism showed us the danger of subordinating art to the demands of ideology.

    Stalin’s Russia was the prototype of the modern totalitarian state. Every aspect of societal life was subject to its demands, and that included arts and culture. People were censored, arrested, tortured, jailed and executed for what they wrote or said or thought. Observable truth was sacrificed at the altar of political truth. As Stalin’s state prosecutor, Andrey Vyshinsky, once remarked: ‘We have our own reality.’

    The extent of the Stalinist state’s power was the inspiration for Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty-Four, and its methodical brutality was chronicled in Solzhenitsyn’s The Gulag Archipelago. Public and private life was policed, history was manipulated and selectively erased, and the arts were reduced to ‘cultural production’.

    Uh, there goes Spiked, going on about Solzhenitsyn... like so much right-wing clean-your-room types.

    1. John C. Randolph   3 years ago

      Meh. Stalin was just following the French Revolution.

      -jcr

    2. This Is The Zodiac Speaking   3 years ago

      isn't it Stalin's Soviet Union?

  22. Longtobefree   3 years ago

    The populace is always divided between those who prefer individual freedoms, and those who prefer government control of the individual.
    The words change, not the difference.

    1. Tony   3 years ago

      This is as good a categorization as any, but it's pointless if you only define government control as taxation, a thing that only really affects the excess wealth of the very wealthy and as such is not an impediment to their freedom at all.

      Meanwhile there's a newfound exuberance for using the force of state to decide for people things that used to be between them and their doctors. To decide for children what they should read and what their teachers are allowed to talk about. To substitute the whims of a stupid fat man for the will of the people.

      There is no competition, and we should feel blessed by the simplicity of the choice before us.

      1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        You crammed too many fallacies into your post. Any thoughtful reply would have to first refute the fallacies before trying to make a point, and you've made it too much work. Try using maybe one strawman or one false premise at a time. Work the next fallacy into your reply to the reply.

        1. JimboJr   3 years ago

          +1

      2. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

        Meanwhile there’s a newfound exuberance for using the force of state to decide for people things that used to be between them and their doctors.

        Are you taking about vaccination mandates?

        1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

          No, he's talking about your doctor lecturing you on firearms in the home.

        2. mpercy   3 years ago

          Or maybe he's talking about school systems bypassing parents and using the power of the state to control children's medical decisions like gender transformations?

        3. Its_Not_Inevitable   3 years ago

          Maybe he's talking about who pays for your medical service.

      3. John C. Randolph   3 years ago

        taxation, a thing that only really affects the excess wealth of the very wealthy

        Your idiocy really knows no limits.

        To decide for children what they should read

        That's what parents should do, not perverts like you and the hollywood creeps.

        -jcr

        1. Tony   3 years ago

          No, it's what teachers should do.

          Parents do not own their children, and they are almost never qualified to educate them. Children have some rights you know.

      4. Sevo   3 years ago

        Here's shitbags 'opinion' on the matter, specifically:

        Tony|9.7.17 @ 4:43PM|#
        "I don't consider taxing and redistribution to be either forced or charity."

        So, in shitbags 'opinion', facts are quite flexible.

        1. mpercy   3 years ago

          He's half right...it certainly isn't charity.

    2. sarcasmic   3 years ago

      See my Heinlein quote above.

      https://reason.com/2022/10/09/americas-biggest-political-division-isnt-left-vs-right/?comments=true#comment-9738382

      And that's the great libertarian conundrum. How do you put people with no desire for power into positions of power?

      1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        And that link did not work. Control-f "political tags" it's a good one.

      2. MWAocdoc   3 years ago

        It's not really a conundrum. Power-seeking individuals create the power that uninvolved individuals let them have because they want someone to do something; or they're too busy with their own lives to take notice and take action against creeping power accumulation. The more power the political class manages to accumulate, the harder it is for freedom-loving but uninvolved people to defuse it.

        1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

          The conundrum is how to get libertarians into office who will dismantle the power structure. Nobody who would do that wants the job, and nobody who wants the job will do that.

          1. MWAocdoc   3 years ago

            I was elected to office. It's a two-step process though. After I was elected I was the only one there who wanted to defuse the power structure.

    3. JimboJr   3 years ago

      logged into say this. The major divider is do you want govt controlling and mandating everything, or do you want more freedom. Covid put a fucking huge exclamation point on that one

      1. MWAocdoc   3 years ago

        I think it's worse than that. It's not just what you want. It's what you're willing to work to achieve. If you just want to be left alone and they are not willing to leave you alone, who has the greater incentive to spend time, effort and resources to achieve their goals?

  23. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago (edited)

    Washington Post:

    Women said coronavirus shots affect periods. New study shows they’re right.

    Women said.

    It’s not happening.
    Ok, it’s happening, but it’s not as bad as you say.

    “Now we can give people information about possibly what to expect with menstrual cycles,” Edelman said. “So I hope that’s overall really reassuring to individuals.”

    1. ElvisIsReal   3 years ago (edited)

      Obligatory link to my pieces on this:

      https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/the-covid-misinformation-that-wasnt

      It’s really re-assuring that the ‘experts’ were denying this for years, but NOW they will admit that it’s happening — and continue recommending the shot even though they don’t know WHY it’s happening.

      Maybe in two more years we’ll get mainstream articles noting the incredible increase in cancer activity or organ transplant rejection — sometimes years after the initial surgery.

      And the OG ‘covid misinformation’ piece:

      https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/government-is-a-relentless-freedom

    2. mpercy   3 years ago

      https://americanmind.org/salvo/thats-not-happening-and-its-good-that-it-is/

      Which brings us to the Law of Salutary Contradiction, whose formulation is: “That’s not happening and it’s good that it is.” While the Law of Merited Impossibility applies to the future, this one is about the present. It’s what the ruling class immediately switches to after what they insisted would “never” happen is happening before everyone’s eyes.

      Is the Biden Administration inviting in illegal immigrants, then putting them on military planes and shipping them to the heartland? Absolutely not … and these future Nobel Prize winners deserve their shot at the American Dream.

      The coinage is Rod Dreher’s and goes back to the early debates on homosexual marriage. As Dreher formulates it, the Law of Merited Impossibility holds: “That will never happen, and when it does, boy will you [homophobes, transphobes, racists, sexists, whatever] deserve it.”

      Its second purpose is to dismiss out of hand “slippery slope” arguments—despite, or because of, the fact that every single such argument over the last twenty years at least has proved true. Worried that allowing people to “self-identify” as whatever sex they want will lead to pervy 50-year-old men exposing themselves to’ tween girls? Insist, loudly and indignantly, that that will NEVER happen and anyone who suggests it might is an alarmist bigot with a heart full of hate.

      The third purpose is to enforce the new caste system. Those who get to impose fresh irrational indignities on the rest of us are the upper caste. Those who object, or even have reservations, are lower. The latter are not allowed to harbor, much less express, any doubts. Whatever humiliation the upper caste has planned for us, we deserve and must meekly accept. Hence when said pervy 50-year-old actually does start waving around “her” equipment in the girls’ locker room, if any parent dares object, let ’em have it with both barrels. That thing that ten seconds ago you said would “never” happen? Now it’s righteous punishment for the retrograde.

  24. MWAocdoc   3 years ago

    For me the interesting question this review raises - and perhaps the book answers? - is how the "deeply involved" few have managed to increase the "polarization" level for the rest of us. Is it a case of the "squeaky wheel gets the grease?" Or is it something more fundamental? If the hyper-involved few are almost all of the politicians and almost all of the journalists it could explain how politics itself, together with the image the less-involved see in the mass media, then it could explain the phenomenon.

  25. Gaear Grimsrud   3 years ago

    Wow. DeathSantis should have banned this shit but didn't.
    https://thepostmillennial.com/florida-surgeon-general-covid-mrna-vaccine-found-to-cause-84-increase-in-death-for-men-ages-18-39?utm_campaign=64483

  26. Libertariantranslator   3 years ago

    Speaking of "Left and Right", what was it that prompted George Orwell to go to Spain to shoot fascists in 1936? Was't it an outbreak of communist anarchism winning elections, and an "iron fist" religious militarist refusing to abide by the election outcome? Was THAT so different, mutatis mutandis, from last winter, this summer, and right now?

  27. JasonT20   3 years ago

    I don't know whether it is reflective of the author if this article, or of the book and research it discusses, but the article seems to not give enough thought or consideration to another factor. People that are "deeply involved" in politics also seem likely to use information sources that line up with their beliefs. When comparing the political landscape in the U.S. between now and say, 1976 (Ford vs. Carter referenced in the article), we need to take the fractured and partisan nature of news and political media into account.

    I would argue that the ability to sort our sources of information as strongly as our political views has driven a large amount of the polarization. Without a shared basis of factual information about the events that relate to politics, opinions are going to harden. When separate worlds of facts and opinions are created, people don't see their views challenged often and get a false impression of how many people share their beliefs. While it isn't at all logical, people do factor in how popular their beliefs are into how strongly they will defend them. After all, if you are part of a larger group, you feel safer. That is part of the tribal effect on politics.

    The other factor in this that is related is the degree to which information sources are not just politically biased, but how much of their content is explicitly opinion. Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc. all have their highest rated time slots filled with commentary, not news reporting. The chase for ratings has driven outlets to find a niche audience of people that agree to be fed fuel for their outrage and distrust and dislike of the opposing political side.

    Think about it, really. Tucker Carlson, as the highest rated time slot on cable news, gets a small fraction of the viewers that Walter Cronkite got. This might not be a problem if that larger number of people were still getting more objective and fact-based news reporting than commentary. But too many people consume much more of such commentary than they do news. Social media and other internet algorithms then feed people 'news' that lines up with their beliefs.

    These kinds of information silos, even if not the source of this increased partisanship, are certainly a positive feedback for it.

    1. Unicorn Abattoir   3 years ago

      Tucker Carlson, as the highest rated time slot on cable news, gets a small fraction of the viewers that Walter Cronkite got.

      Cronkite was a 6 PM nightly news anchor, not an opinion pundit, in an age when there were 3 channels to choose from.

      And John Chancellor (NBC Nightly News) was better than Cronkite.

      1. JasonT20   3 years ago

        That's right. And I went on to say right after that how this is a problem because there is no longer a news hour that gets more viewers than the commentary of shows like Carlson's. When there were 3 networks with national news for 30 minutes following 30 minutes of local news, that was probably 90% of the information that people got from TV about events in politics. (And they got a lot from newspapers as well.) These opinion shows occupy prime time slots. People are watching these (or recording them to watch later) in time slots that compete with entertainment. That tells me that this programing is aimed at entertaining people, not informing them.

        What news there is now has become secondary to opinion pundits that chase ratings rather than facts. It should be no wonder that people that so many that are "deeply involved" in politics now are acting more like rabid sports fans than thoughtful citizens.

  28. Bill Dalasio   3 years ago

    A lot of this seems a pretty roundabout way of saying a huge swath of the public doesn’t put much thought, consideration or intellectual effort into politics. Their views aren’t “middle”. They’re substantively non-existent. In and of itself, that’s hardly a bad thing. But, it does mean that those views don’t bring much to the conversation, since their compromise amounts to little more than trying to split differences without understanding the issues. And their views are probably the most subject to external pressure, either from their social circle or from popular media. While I don’t wish her any ill, I really see no useful purpose to deferring to the opinion of a soccer mom whose sum opinion on pandemic policy, for example, starts with “Well, the experts say…”

  29. Widhalm19   3 years ago

    The political divide is always the same in every civilization past and present .... those who produce and defend the law against the free-loaders, collectivists, cowards and weaklings.

  30. Patrick Trombly   3 years ago

    There is no political division.

    98% of Americans share the same political philosophy:

    "Ban what I dislike and subsidize what I like."

    People just like and dislike different things.

    But I will say that Democrats' list of actionable likes and dislikes is a lot shorter than Republicans' these days.

  31. Rob Misek   3 years ago

    Not the super political, the super rich who manipulate the political.

  32. evaadole   3 years ago (edited)

    Great article, Mike. I appreciate your work, i’m now creating over $35400 dollars each month simply by doing a simple job online! i do know You currently making a lot of greenbacks online from $28000 dollars, its simple online operating jobs

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