The Fight To Stop Research Into a Cheap, Effective Backup Plan for Climate Change
Why are activists trying to stop research into a promising backup plan to handle climate change?

Last year a team of Harvard scientists had an idea involving a large balloon and a small amount of chalk dust. They devised an experiment in which a weather balloon would release less than 2 kilograms of calcium carbonate about 12 miles above a Swedish Space Corporation facility near the arctic town of Kiruna, or possibly a tiny quantity of sulfate particles, equivalent to the amount released in a single minute by a typical commercial aircraft.
These plans were greeted with utter panic. Activist groups declared the "risks of catastrophic consequences" were too great, and there were "no acceptable reasons" for allowing the project to go forward. Experimenting with this technology, they claimed, has "the potential for extreme consequences, and stands out as dangerous, unpredictable, and unmanageable." The Swedish government canceled the tests.
What could possibly be so terrifying about this seemingly innocuous research proposal?
The project was the first step in researching a promising strategy to counteract some of the effects of climate change: stratospheric geoengineering, specifically solar aerosol injection. By dispersing bright particles into the stratosphere where they would reflect sunlight back out into space, the theory goes, humanity might be able to generate a kind of global sunscreen and cool the warming earth. The Harvard researchers hoped to gather some data on aerosol density, particles' effects on atmospheric chemistry, and how well they scatter light to allow climate modelers to improve the fidelity of their simulations.
A decade earlier, British researchers tried to get a similar proposal off the ground. That one involved a kilometer-long hose that would have sprayed two bathtubs' worth of water from a balloon over a disused military airstrip in the Norfolk countryside, allowing scientists to monitor how the wind affected the motion of the balloon and hose.
That, too, was canceled after Friends of the Earth, the ETC Group, and other activists similarly denounced it as a step down a "very high-risk technological path" that "could have devastating consequences" for the world.
Neither of these experiments would have affected the weather, much less the climate, in any way. Yet opposition to stratospheric aerosol injection research, and solar geoengineering research more generally, is intense. The underlying worry isn't that the technology will be a flop. In fact, the most vigorous opponents seem convinced that research into stratospheric geoengineering will show tremendous promise to combat warming quickly and cheaply. And that, they fear, could be the most dangerous finding of all.
An Artificial Pinatubo
This idea of a planetary sunshade isn't new. Researchers have focused on the concept since the 1991 eruption of Mount Pinatubo, a volcano in the Philippines. The eruption explosively injected about 20 million tons of sulfur dioxide into the stratosphere, going more than 12 miles high. Those particles reflected enough sunlight to lower the average temperature of the globe by 0.5 degrees Celsius in 1992.
The earth's average temperature has increased by about 1.1 degrees Celsius since the 19th century due to man-made climate change. Under the 2015 Paris Agreement, the nations of the world committed to keep that increase from going 2 degrees Celsius above the pre-industrial global average. To meet the Paris Agreement's goal, the countries involved made plans to transition away from fossil fuels to no-carbon and low-carbon energy sources, such as solar, nuclear, and wind power. Given plausible energy use and deployment scenarios, recent work by climate researcher Roger Pielke Jr. and his colleagues at the University of Colorado projects the average global temperature to rise by the year 2100 to between 2–3 degrees Celsius, with a median of 2.2 degrees. Pielke notes that this is "within spitting distance" of the Paris goal.
But what if those projections are wrong and the planet warms much faster than calculated? Proponents of solar geoengineering think we might be able to bridge the gap by mimicking the Pinatubo eruption. The most plausible proposal is the one those Harvard researchers want to explore: solar aerosol injection. This would involve annually scattering millions of tons of particles—generally sulfur dioxide, sulfuric acid, or calcium carbonate—into the stratosphere. At this stage they are proposing only to do preliminary work to assess the idea's feasibility.
Where some researchers see promise, others see a possible apocalypse. In January, a group of climate researchers published an open letter in the journal WIREs Climate Change calling for "an international non-use agreement" to prohibit research and development of solar geoengineering technologies. "These proliferating calls for solar geoengineering research and development are cause for alarm," they argued, "as they risk the normalization of these technologies as a future policy option." To stop that, "a strong political message to block these technologies is needed." They seek to completely halt all research in its tracks.
The researchers raise four main objections to researching solar radiation management technologies: They say that it is ungovernable, that it runs the risk of termination shock if the technology is abruptly stopped, that it puts the world on a slippery slope, and that it constitutes a moral hazard.
Ungovernable Research
The authors of the WIREs manifesto claim that solar geoengineering is "impossible to govern fairly and effectively," by which they mean that there is no way for the world to collectively reach a general international agreement on how to implement a solar radiation management program. Since they believe that deployment is ungovernable, then research must be banned.
Is there anything ungovernable about the research itself? The National Academy of Sciences' recent Reflecting Sunlight report offers some recommendations for keeping solar geoengineering under control. For example, funders would "require independent peer review of the research and an assessment of the plausible impacts." Peer review would include public and stakeholder engagement in the design and review of the research. The Harvard project is being guided by just such an outside independent advisory committee.
The report further recommended that funders promote international cooperation, citing the Developing Country Impacts Modelling Analysis for Solar Radiation Management (DECIMALS) project as an example of how to engage solar geoengineering researchers in developing countries. DECIMALS funds research teams in developing countries as they model how solar radiation management could affect their regions. Such teams are currently active in Bangladesh, South Africa, Argentina, and the Philippines, among other places.
Ultimately, the WIREs manifesto fails to make the case that solar geoengineering research is any more dangerously ungovernable than the preliminary research that led to such developments as genetically modified crops, space satellites, and Antarctic exploration.
One oft-expressed concern is that, since climate change is an issue that crosses global boundaries, so too would be the deployment of a stratospheric sunscreen. One country, or maybe even one wealthy individual, could unilaterally deploy a sunscreen affecting the entire world's climate. Noting that the costs of solar geoengineering are relatively low, the political scientist David G. Victor has outlined a scenario in the Oxford Review of Economic Policy in which a single wealthy "self-appointed protector of the planet" decides to deploy solar radiation management on his own.
Dubbed "Greenfinger," after the James Bond villain Goldfinger, this scenario formed the central plot of Neal Stephenson's 2021 cli-fi novel Termination Shock. The Texas plutocrat T.R. Schmidt builds the biggest gun on the planet, dubbed Pina2bo, at his remote ranch, aiming to lower the earth's temperature by firing sulfur-filled shells into the stratosphere. In real life, a coalition of climate activists decried Microsoft founder Bill Gates as "the Sugar Daddy of Geoengineering" in 2020 because he has donated to a fund that has supported the Harvard research project.
Setting lone billionaires aside, the WIREs manifesto worries that "a few countries could engage in solar geoengineering unilaterally or in small coalitions even when other countries oppose such deployment." Kim Stanley Robinson sketches exactly that scenario in his tediously didactic 2020 novel, The Ministry for the Future: In response to a heat wave that kills 20 million citizens, India launches a fleet of aircraft to spray sulfur dioxide in the stratosphere.
Unilateral solar geoengineering is probably legal. As Daniel Bodansky, a law professor at Arizona State University, recently noted in an article for Harvard's Belfer Center, there is no "rule of international law that limits its deployment." It is also unlikely to remain secret: Given that private surveillance satellites have a resolution of around 10 inches, it would be impossible to hide the base for a fleet of sulfur-spraying aircraft or a facility housing other methods of injecting sulfur into the stratosphere. Other countries fearing the possible side effects of solar radiation management might decide to intervene to stop the unilateral deployment, either through economic sanctions or military strikes. In Termination Shock, India—misled by faulty climate modeling—surreptitiously tries to sabotage Schmidt's Pina2bo project, but fails to do so. In fact, a recent study found that solar radiation management would likely moderate the increase in flooding in India that is projected for unabated climate change.
More worryingly, what happens if those countries succeed in stopping such a project after it has already begun?
Termination Shock
Opponents of solar geoengineering research often cite the risk of termination shock as a reason to ban it. If solar radiation management masks a high level of warming, and that management is suddenly halted, they fear this would result in a very rapid increase in temperature—the scenario explored in Stephenson's novel of the same name. An abrupt and complete halt to a longstanding program of solar aerosol injection, suggests some research, could result in a rate of warming that is 10 times faster than if geoengineering had not been deployed. Such a sudden increase in temperatures would obviously have serious consequences for both the natural world and agricultural production that would not have adapted to the new higher temperatures.
But termination shock may be both much less likely and much less risky than previous analyses have suggested. For one thing, there would be a buffer period of months at least before any global temperature rise would become significant.
How might we end up in a termination shock scenario? Researchers Peter Irvine and Andy Parker looked at three ways termination shock could hit and what could be done about them in a 2018 analysis in the journal Earth's Future.
The first pathway is an attack against the deployment infrastructure. This, they note, would be a difficult task: Solar radiation management delivery equipment would be geographically distributed and defended much like nuclear power plants and military bases are now. In addition, countries deploying solar radiation management would likely have or could quickly assemble backup equipment that would maintain solar radiation management cooling before temperatures start to rise rapidly.
The second pathway would be a global economic cataclysm. Given how relatively cheap solar radiation management is likely to be, Parker and Irvine calculate that the global gross domestic product would have to drop by 90 percent before maintaining solar radiation management would cost more than 1 percent of the world's post-catastrophe economy. For comparison, the devastation of World War II reduced European GDP by 21 percent.
Their third pathway would be for some countries simply to choose to cease solar radiation management. In such a case, other countries could ramp up their solar radiation management efforts. Considering the climate effects of a swift end to solar radiation management, parties wanting to end solar radiation management would likely be open to a gradual phase-out of deployment.
Slippery Slopes and Moral Hazards
In a 2019 statement, the Climate Action Network-International (a coalition of 1,500 activist groups from 130 countries) claimed that solar radiation experiments could end up "dragging the world to a 'slippery slope' where larger experiments will be required to validate previous ones that may have failed or not deployed at sufficient scale. Unforeseen consequences of human intervention into the climate and weather systems are to be expected." The authors of the WIREs manifesto similarly warned that these experiments could lead to "'locking in' solar geoengineering as an infrastructure and policy option."
That is not how scientific research usually proceeds. Most research on new technologies is a dead end, as the then-UCLA legal scholar Jesse L. Reynolds pointed out in a 2020 article in WIREs Climate Change. For example, only 10 percent of clinical trials result in a pharmaceutical treatment. What's more, even successfully developed technologies have been abandoned—supersonic passenger airplanes, for example. Claims that researching solar aerosol injection is the beginning of a slippery slope toward deployment is largely alarmist hand waving.
A stronger argument, and the most prevalent one, is that a cheap effective strategy for stopping or even reversing warming could create a moral hazard. In the insurance industry, moral hazard occurs when insured parties take greater risks because they know their insurers will protect them against losses. In the context of geoengineering, a 2014 article in Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society A observes that "the moral hazard is not so much an economic risk but a social, ethical and political one. Geoengineering might be perceived as an insurance policy against climate change, undermining support for existing climate policies."
In the words of the WIREs manifesto, "Speculative hopes about the future availability of solar geoengineering technologies could threaten commitments to mitigation and reduce incentives for governments, businesses, and societies to do their utmost to achieve decarbonization or carbon neutrality as soon as possible." They are particularly worried that fossil fuel interests will duplicitously campaign to adopt geoengineering rather than switching to non-fossil fuel energy sources. Solar radiation management would function as an emergency cooling system for the planet, but it is not a permanent solution to climate change caused by loading up the atmosphere with extra greenhouse gases, chiefly carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels.
In the case that man-made warming turns out to be much faster than currently projected, putting up a stratospheric sunscreen would provide humanity extra time in which to develop and deploy low-carbon energy technologies and devise ways to reduce the extra carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. An additional issue is that even as temperatures are moderated by solar radiation management, increasing levels of carbon dioxide will continue the process of ocean acidification, which may have detrimental effects on the functioning of marine ecosystems.
But critics of solar geoengineering focus almost entirely on the possibility that it might discourage efforts to cut greenhouse gas emissions while ignoring its possible reductions in climate change's deleterious effects. "Climate change poses severe risks to ecosystems and humans, especially to the already vulnerable," Reynolds points out. "If solar radiation management could reduce these risks, as current evidence indicates, then an ethical duty to at least explore its potential seems reasonable." He dryly observes that focusing solely on the possible downsides of solar radiation management is "analogous to considering only that seat belts cause car drivers to drive faster while neglecting the belts' safety effects."
Tools for Future Generations
All of this fevered opposition contrasts strongly with the findings in the National Academy of Sciences' Reflecting Sunlight report, which concluded that doing some preliminary research on how to dim the sun is a good idea. The committee suggested a "reasonable initial investment" in solar geoengineering research would be "in the range of $100–200 million total over 5 years." Similarly, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's most recent assessment, released last year, assigned "high confidence" to the finding that solar radiation modification could offset greenhouse gases' climate effects.
In a 2021 article for Climatic Change, Yale geoengineering lecturer Wake Smith and White House energy expert Claire Henly acknowledge the concerns that research on solar radiation management might constitute a moral hazard. But that doesn't mean, they add, that "the right response is to limit [solar aerosol injection] research in a bid to shroud the future in ignorance and foreclose to it certain options."
We are bequeathing to our descendants a world in which the climate is changing in what may be very deleterious ways. "In this context," Smith and Henly ask, "is it justified for us to deprive future generations of tools that may lessen the pain we have inflicted? They may or may not use these tools, but surely those decisions are theirs to make."
This article originally appeared in print under the headline "The Unscientific Panic Over Solar Geoengineering."
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That’s because these activists aren’t green, they’re red. Commie red. They use the “crisis” to further their own collectivist and anti-car goals to control us.
This. The actual environment is secondary. The top-down command social structure (which they will naturally sit at the top of) is the point.
A solution in search of a problem.
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True, this is from Friends of the Earth home page. nature is secondary to social justice.
Friends of the Earth fights for a more healthy and just world.
Together we speak truth to power and expose those who endanger the health of people and the planet for corporate profit. We organize to build long-term political power and campaign to change the rules of our economic and political systems that create injustice and destroy nature.
Seems like they don't actually care for the planet as much as they claim!
Dear God!
Are you saying the fascist are LYING to us?
Say it ain't so.
That's not lying, that's anti-lying. Please update your vocabulary to the 21st woke century.
Ideological Climate Change NOW!
So true. The global warming alarmists just want to control us.
“From ‘speaking’truth’ to power..to imposing OUR ‘truth’ FROM power!”
The Progressive Establishment has always worked very hard to keep up the pretense that it isn’t the establishment.
IMO the watermelons in the Church of Climate Change range from devout if stupid true believers to cynical power-mad opportunists. I suspect the believers do not want any heretical challenges to their doctrine, including what must be done to appease Gaia. And I bet that most of them also fear and reject technology in general.
Meanwhile, at least some of their priests, along with senior laity in the political corps and the media, certainly do not want anyone to "solve" the Climate Crisis!, since that might undermine their claim to moral authority.
Watermelons are VERY racist!!
Solving the climate crisis would not only undermine their moral authority, it would end their careers.
And reveal them to be the horribly inconsequential little toads that they are.
Apparently baily is the only person that hasn't learned this
No one I know of claimed Bailey was partially smart. Then again, he is a reporter/editor so smartness is not a job qualification.
Bailey got vaccinated, got covid, got 2 boosters, and got covid again. He eagerly awaits getting the new omicron booster. He is Reason's 'science' writer.
Suffering is part of believing.
Maybe not, since trusting the same jackoffs to geoengineer the planet that are telling us the apocalypse is just a few years out is massively retarded.
The answer is because it's a fraud and a grift, there is an mammoth industry grifting from the fraud.
What could possibly be so terrifying about this seemingly innocuous research proposal?
Sheep like Bailey could believe it and try to impose the solution on the rest of the world. See the Inflation ‘Reduction’ Act.
Oh, anti-car goals. For a second there, I thought it was anti-cat goals.
It's always seemed to me that there was either an undercurrent or a vocal but extreme minority position in the environmental movement that what humans are doing to the planet is immoral in some way, and that humans need to have their (our) footprint on the earth cut way way back. The impact would be large reductions in population, standard of living, energy consumption, etc. The equivalent, perhaps, of bombing us back to the stone age.
So any advances, or even remediations, that allow us humans to continue our raping of the earth are opposed, with any arguments that can be credibly marshaled. The "precautionary principle" is one convenient argument that we see here... better not to do anything than to risk something bad happening. (Similarly, opposition to otherwise green nuclear energy is a glaring example of a position arising from this mindset. Another example: opposition to GMO advances that would support larger populations and reduce associated suffering.)
So with solar shading. It seems to be pretty low risk to experiment with, and, if it works, would take a lot of pressure off the need to deploy alternative energy quickly. But it would allow mankind to continue raping the earth through continued development and population increases, and would reduce the suffering that would otherwise be deservedly imposed on us. So that door cannot be allowed to open.
They waste our tax dollars mandating funding, funding, and MORE funding in the name of "secular, data-driven education"... And then FORBID the collection of the TINIEST BITS of secular data, at times! If the data revealed MIGHT possibly run contrary to the "prevailing narrative"!!! Shades of Trofim D. Lysenko!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko
You can see that attitude manifest in how green zealots treat some indigenous people. The first world elites often work hard to prevent the locals from modernization. Much better, and more "authentic", for the primitive peasants to endure short lives of hardship and suffering.
At least that could be better than elite attitudes a century ago, when they eagerly removed locals from designated green enclaves, in order to make them more "natural".
And yet those same people who are so convinced that human beings are a pestilence on Mother Earth are the ones crying the loudest for mask mandates and vaccine mandates and lockdowns, if it will increase their odds of survival by 0.01% (or even if it won't).
I've always thought there exists a core of real extremists with views so out there that they would alienate the mainstream (in any number of fields). Most environmentalists are not out to decimate the ranks of the human race, but the radical environmentalists cynically manufacture rationales by making up data and arguments that are more palatable to, and that can be adopted by and fought for by the mainstream, that will help push things in the extreme direction. (I think an old soviet used to call them "useful idiots.")
It seems unlikely to me that the radical environmentalists are the same people as those arguing for vaccines and mandates. If they care at all, they would be against anything that perpetuates the human race.
That being said, the pools of useful idiots probably overlap significantly.
I have now noticed something about the proggie brain, which I hadn't noticed before. It works the same on totally different topics! See if you can spot the similarities below:
Proggie brain, concerning free market v/s Government Almighty: Under the free market, people's (buyers and sellers) use their free will or volition, un-coerced, to move goods, services, and money around, intelligently, in order to help themselves, and that is EVIL! But when Government Almighty (as assemblage of voters and politicians that are endlessly fighting each other and erecting near-brainless bureaucracies run amok) moves the same goods, services, and money around, using coercion, then that is GOOD!
Proggie brain, concerning Geoengineering v/s Gaia (Momma Nature): Geoengineering proposes carbon sequestration or reflecting more sunlight, via human action, to help ourselves intelligently. EVIL!!!
But when Gaia does the exact same things, and over-does them from time to time, and wallops us with ginormous volcanoes or asteroids, in a totally un-intelligent way, then that is GOOD!
Gaia-lovers think that humans catastrophes from Gaia are GOOD, 'cause they wipe out humans, who are nasty parasites to Gaia; I kid you not!
To prove my last point about the humans-haters, I give you this:
Bill McKibben is an un-reformed, 200-proof, human-hating asshole!
“At its extreme, green ideology expresses itself in utter contempt for humanity. Reviewing Bill McKibben’s The End of Nature in the Los Angeles Times, National Park Service research biologist David M. Graber concluded with this stunning passage: ‘Human happiness, and certainly human fecundity, are not as important as a wild and healthy planet. I know social scientists who remind me that people are part of nature, but it isn’t true. Somewhere along the lineat about a billion years ago, maybe half thatwe quit the contract and became a cancer. We have become a plague upon ourselves and upon the Earth. It is cosmically unlikely that the developed world will choose to end its orgy of fossil-energy consumption, and the Third World its suicidal consumption of landscape. Until such time as Homo sapiens should decide to rejoin nature, some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along.’
“It is hard to take such notions seriously without sounding like a bit of a kook yourself. But there they arecalmly expressed in the pages of a major, mainstream, Establishment newspaper by an employee of the federal government. When it is acceptable to say such things in polite intellectual company, when feel-good environmentalists tolerate the totalitarians in their midst, when sophisticates greet the likes of Graber with indulgent nods and smiles rather than arguments and outrage, we are one step further down another bloody road to someone’s imagined Eden. All the greens need is an opportunity and a Lenin.”
From “Free Minds & Free Markets”, Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy, 1993, which is a compilation of 25 years of articles from Reason magazine, this one being “The Green Road to Serfdom”, April 1990, by Virginia I. Postrel.
Proggie brain is generally addicted to self-righteous and smug coercion of others. It is also self-destructive of humans generally, as noted above. Then it's also hypocritical, in that, if they REALLY believed that human life is a blight upon the planet, they'd just go off and commit suicide. But no, THEY personally aren't part of the blight; those people over THERE are the blight! So proggie brain is pretty stupid AND evil...
Contard brain, in SOME flavors (hyper-nationalism, militarism, self-righteous religion, xenophobia, gayophobia, etc.) can be just as bad, I will admit that. Contards don't have as much "traction" (especially in media and academia) right now, THAT is the big difference!
Reason.co m link for the above: https://reason.com/1990/04/01/the-green-road-to-serfdom/
“Contard brain…… can be just as bad….”
Nah. Nothing can be as bad as the beliefs highlighted in that article.
Think, squirrel. You were on to something there, for a change.
National Park Service research biologist David M. Graber: "Somewhere along the lineat about a billion years ago, maybe half thatwe quit the contract and became a cancer."
I would not trust a biologist that puts humans in the Precambrian Eon (before bones, teeth, and shells), nor one so sloppy as to mix up "million" and "billion".
I do think some of the same people support radical environmentalism AND radical protection of people. Both are responses to the universal caring urge, driven mostly by emotion and not logic. And the universal caring urge is most dominant in liberals, females, non-aggressive types, and those with socialist ideals.
Without a doubt they exist. It is the group that wants to get rid of artificial fertilizers and use just compost and manures which would cause a reduction of billions of people.
"It’s always seemed to me that there was either an undercurrent or a vocal but extreme minority position in the environmental movement that what humans are doing to the planet is immoral in some way,..."
It's a post-mosaic religion, but original sin carries over.
IOW, don’t steal our thunder, sayeth the climate activists. It’s no fun if the climate “gets fixed” without forcing you to do it our way.
To be fair.... past projects of scientists trying to be mother earth didnt exactly turn out as expected.
https://tiee.esa.org/vol/v2/issues/figure_sets/deer/overview.html
See, this is where I struggle. Humans are really good at taking something that may or may not be a problem, and creating an actual problem trying to solve it.
I mean, I'm hesitant to say, "yeah, scientists should totally let loose in the atmosphere a manufactured compound in order to fix a problem that science barely even understands."
Perhaps on the large scale, but there is absolutely no reason to oppose sprinkling 5 pounds of pulverized limestone into the air to study potential "solutions" to a "problem".
Which is a study to determine if it should be implemented on a large scale. Which historically has led to a lot of issues.
Controlling climate change is no good unless everyone has to suffer for it. The suffering is the real point.
Everyone except the people with shares in green energy companies.
And the climate activist politicians who are buying up seaside villas.
Excelsior!
It is sort of interesting that global warming took off after sulfur emissions were limited because of acid rain. Perhaps the sulfate particles present in the atmosphere were reflecting heat.
Yes, I remember sulfur compounds being released from burning coal but scrubbed out of the smoke to prevent acid rain.
It started with the nuclear power people campaigning against "greenhouse gases" that nuclear power eliminated. Talk about "hoisted on your own petard".
"It started with the nuclear power people campaigning against “greenhouse gases” that nuclear power eliminated. Talk about “hoisted on your own petard”."
Got a cite for that?
Whatever it is they're against it.
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Of the DOW would allow spittin tobaccy funds in, we'd see heights never before seen.
OBL, The Babylon Bee has a job for you.
Bailey, your scientism Mott-and-Bailey doesn't work any more. Playing your favorite team of environmental science heroes against a less favorite team of environmental science heroes doesn't work any more. You're all a bunch of dumbass crackpots that everyone can see right through after 2 yrs. of COVID and <1 yr. of BBB. I recommend tearing the posters of your favorite environmental science teams off your walls before winter gets here and hungry and freezing victims of the WEF have to start hunting for food.
What could possibly be so terrifying about this seemingly innocuous research proposal?
Because the twits running it are the same twits who've been saying the climate will end in century starting.... now!
The Harvard researchers hoped to gather some data on aerosol density, particles' effects on atmospheric chemistry, and how well they scatter light to allow climate modelers to improve the fidelity of their simulations.
See. We've been affirmed to the point of overtly threatened mass homicide that the calculations are correct and our understanding of the climate is flawless. Albedo, global dimming, CO2 (every last ton from every last source), water vapor, solar cycles, vegetative growth, urban heat islands, all the various feedback and feed forward mechanisms between all the multiplexed factors... all perfectly unassailable. And all consistently wrong. And now they're saying they want to try and (partially) blot out the sun? Hello No. Fuck 'em. Perfectly sane answer. Precautionary principle doesn't apply to people who've demonstrated themselves to be hacks.
The irony being that atmospheric particles is one of the knows climate modelers use to poly fit their models to historic trends, with values and effect varying widely between different models. Atmospheric aerosols are essentially just a tuning parameter for the models, not based on any known scientific backing for the effect. It is often used to cool the period mid 19th century.
And the whole premise runs against their claims and theories.
Ultimately, the policies derived from the experiments go one of two ways: 1. We pump particulates until we can’t or decide to stop. Which, by their own logic, means we’ll experience all of a century’s worth of warming (the CO2 will still be there) in about a year. Far more fucking calamitous than even the most dire climate change predictions. 2. We pump particulates and block sunlight until CO2 drops back down to the level where plants are just shy of being starved. Which sounds like something so comedically evil that Mr. Burns would attempt it. Meaning the WEF will absolutely put everything they have behind it.
Fuck. No.
Everything else would just be, "We want to experiment with particulates to see the effect on the weather, which has fuck all to do with climate."
The modellers still have no idea what the true value for doubling sensitivity is. W/o that they are just pissing in the wind.
When the science is settled is based on consensus, you can't have new data rocking the boat. Why waste time trying to disprove what the consensus already knows to be true?
Just to clarify, that is "science" (or Science!) settled by media and political consensus.
Physics was complete in the 1890s.
Yeah, people thought that.
Similar people think climate is controlled by co2. After all, it’s the ‘consensus’.
Seen on Slashdot in recent days....an article about a seemingly serious attempt to build and operate large-scale carbon sequestration facility.
The World's Largest Carbon Removal Project Yet Is Headed For Wyoming - Slashdot
I was excited to see a science-based discussion that attempts to actually do something about the "problem" that did not involve just redistributing wealth. But as always, the devil is in the details. For this facility to operate at capacity (5 million metric tons a year.) will require 2GW of power, or the combined output of some 6 million solar panels. Until they can build up their solar panel power station, they will be running the facility on power generated from natural gas. Meaning "first need to capture enough CO2 to cancel out the amount of emissions it generates by burning through that gas before it can go on to reduce the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere."
I'd guess (without really doing any calculations) that the math for the CO2 emissions generated from the solar panel buildout and "temporary" nat-gas operations would make the facility net-positive by about 2050? We ought to have fusion power by then, fusion is still just 20 years away (like it has been since the 1970s). So that tempers my excitement...
In the meantime: "Go Vultures!".
Vultures Prevent Tens of Millions of Metric Tons of Carbon Emissions Each Year - Slashdot
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Scientific American:
Vultures are hard birds for humans to love. They are an obligate scavenger, meaning they get all their food from already dead prey -- and that association has cast them as a harbinger of death since ancient times. But in reality, vultures are nature's flying sanitation crew. And new research adds to that positive picture by detailing these birds' role in a surprising process: mitigating greenhouse gas emissions. With their impressive vision and the range they can cover in their long, soaring flights, the 22 species of vultures found around the world are often the first scavengers to discover and feed on a carcass. This cleanup provides a vital service to both ecosystems and humans: it keeps nutrients cycling and controls pathogens that could otherwise spread from dead animals to living ones.
Decaying animal bodies release greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide and methane. But most of these emissions can be prevented if vultures get to the remains first, a new study in Ecosystem Services shows. It calculates that an individual vulture eats between 0.2 and one kilogram (kg) of carcass per day, depending on the vulture species. Left uneaten, each kg of naturally decomposing carcass emits about 0.86 kg of CO2 equivalent. This estimate assumes that carcasses not eaten by vultures are left to decay. But many carcasses are composted or buried by humans, which result in more emissions than natural decay, so vulture consumption can avert even more emissions when replacing those methods. The avoided emissions may not sound like much, but multiply those estimates by the estimated 134 million to 140 million vultures around the world, and the number becomes more impressive: tens of millions of metric tons of emissions avoided per year.
But this ecosystem service is not evenly distributed around the world. It occurs mostly in the Americas, says the study's lead author Pablo Plaza, a biologist at the National University of Comahue in Argentina. Three species found only in the Americas -- the Black, Turkey and Yellow-headed vultures -- are responsible for 96 percent of all vulture-related emissions mitigation worldwide, Plaza and his colleagues found. Collectively, vultures in the Americas keep about 12 million metric tons of CO2 equivalent out of the atmosphere annually. Using estimates from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, that is akin to taking 2.6 million cars off the road each year. The situation outside of the Americas stands in stark contrast. "The decline in vulture populations in many regions of the world, such as Africa and Asia, has produced a concomitant loss of the ecosystem services vultures produce," Plaza says.
As it happens, this morning as I looked outside my cabin window, I saw a turkey vulture rending pieces off of a large dead fish I had noticed on the shoreline yesterday. At the farm, towering gyres of turkey vultures with 50 or more birds are a common sight, and there are a few "vulture trees" where they can be seen gathered and roosting by the dozens in the early morning before the updrafts form.
So instead of decaying corpses emitting carbon dioxide, we have vultures metabolizing the corpses to carbon dioxide. Either way, all the carbon in the corpses turns into CO2, no change in emissions. But animals are net-zero CO2 emitters in the first place; all the CO2 they emit came ultimately from plants, which absorbed the CO2 from the air to build sugars, starches, and protein.
It is possible that vultures prevent some methane emissions from decaying corpses, but how much do they fart?
The earth's average temperature has increased by about 1.1 degrees Celsius since the 19th century due to man-made climate change
Yeah sure it has
The horror!
And in the 20th century, with the advent of air conditioning, Americans have been migrating to the states that average 5 degrees warmer. Apparently it's not that big of an inconvenience.
They are like monks self flagellating to mollify god.
Bailey is shit as a 'science' writer since he doesn't seem to understand that scientific theories are not certain and can be disproved.
And Hank Ferrous FORBIDS the gathering of data!
This data that you propose to gather, Comrade… This is subversion! Party Chairman Hank Ferrous has made it clear that subversion is against the Will of the People! Cease and desist with your data-gathering!
Shades of Trofim D. Lysenko!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko
This goes beyond “gathering data”.
In what way?
Experimental data is data...
You mean motives? The data-gathering-blockers do so out of bad motives? If so, I do agree... They are POWER PIGS!!!
So we are free to engage in any potentially dangerous or reckless activity as long as we call it an experiment to gather data.
Put it in perspective! HOW dangerous IS this??!?! The "sin" here is NOT the laughably absurd small danger(s); it is the DISOBEDIENT (non-conforming) EVIL NON-TREE-HUGGING THOUGHTS of the experimenters!!!
From the article above, imported below...
They devised an experiment in which a weather balloon would release less than 2 kilograms of calcium carbonate about 12 miles above a Swedish Space Corporation facility near the arctic town of Kiruna, or possibly a tiny quantity of sulfate particles, equivalent to the amount released in a single minute by a typical commercial aircraft.
I mean, if releasing 2 KG of calcium carbonate into the atmosphere is disastrous, we may as well give up.
There's a scale at which such things *become* dangerous (we wouldn't want a 10 degree drop in global temperature) but we certainly aren't there now.
.. possibly a tiny quantity of sulfate particles, equivalent to the amount released in a single minute by a typical commercial aircraft.
Then just get the data from the airplane emissions.
Primitive humans or pre-humans were using grass-blades to dislodge meat (etc.) particles from between their teeth... Modern paleontology (fossil tooth examinations) can show this. So... When the first of our ancestors started to invent "tooth-brushes"... NO ONE KNEW what unforeseen results might come about from such horrid, arrogant violations of Mother Nature's Will!!! (Pro-tooth-decay Sacred Will... SO was it intended to be!!!) If Mother Nature meant for us to use toothbrushes, She'd have put them on our tongues!!!
If Mother Nature meant for us to use atmospheric particles, She'd have given us a mental "atmospheric particles activation" switch!!!
HOW does "progress" EVER happen, in the face of dogmatic "precautionary principles"? YOUR pro-precautionary-principles postings MIGHT POSSIBLY LEAD TO untold deaths IN THEIR BILLIONS in this, or some other unseen parallel dimension!!! Can you PROVE to me, otherwise?
You said yourself that the aircraft are doing it already. Why duplicate efforts?
"If Mother Nature meant for us to use atmospheric particles"
You don't?
"You said yourself that the aircraft are doing it already. Why duplicate efforts?"
CONCENTRATED release of said substances in a NON-HIGH-AIR-SPEED-released manner, perhaps? MIGHT yield better, more detailed and precise data? This is like saying, "Primitive humans ALREADY had blades of grass with which to clean their teeth... WHY should they be ALLOWED to collect data about cleaning their teeth with these possibly-DANGEROUS new, high-falutin', new-fangled so-called "tooth brushes"?!?! Who knows WHAT might happen, should such data be collected!!!"
(People might be ENCOURAGED and reinforced, in their EVIL ways of eating TOO MUCH SUGAR, should they be ALLOWED toothbrushes and dental technology!!! Sinners must PAY for eating sugar; it is the ONLY way!!! Toothbrushes are NOT NATURAL!!!)
See, in an experiment, there's a desire to have controlled conditions.
Really? Throwing 5 pounds of pulverized limestone into the air is somehow a danger to anyone? Let alone global catastrophe.
The 19th was the best century ever!
What about the 11th?
Since the end of the Little Ice Age is about 1850 (which coincidentally is about when thermometers became more than a lab experiment), I'm surprised the temperature rise (probably mostly due to solar variation) is that small.
I expect there to be extremist when it comes to this stuff. The problem is that those in power allow them to get away with this shit.
Like too many things today, extremist control the narrative. In many cases moderates are drowned out or become discouraged. This results in the moderate giving up. Problem is that it's easy to get a movement started from the extreme, but not as much from the middle.
Your of cource seeking from first hand knowledge of being one of the biggest extremists here
I was having an online discussion with a liberal friend of mine and sent a series of quotes from people saying the watermelon part out loud.
My friend said "Well, those are just extremists. I wouldn't put faith in what they're saying."
I said "You call them extremists; I call them the leaders of their movement." They were people like IPCC officials, UN members, climate-change researchers, and people like Rep. Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff, Saikat Chakrabarti: “The interesting thing about the Green New Deal, is it wasn’t originally a climate thing at all...Do you guys think of it as a climate thing? Because we really think of it as a how-do-you-change-the-entire-economy thing,”
Garbage in, garbage out.
When your essay starts with the premise that man-made climate change is a fact, the result is a pile of shit.
So then you agree with the people who scream and yell in opposition to some fairly simple, affordable, and clearly not-dangerous data-gathering? Otherwise, what is your point, and what data do you have to support it?
what data --- The front door and an acknowledgement of reality.
Ron's (Bailey's) main point here is that pro-ignorance folks are BLOCKING the gathering of data!
This data that you propose to gather, Comrade... This is subversion! Party Chairman Barnstormer has made it clear that subversion is against the Will of the People! Cease and desist with your data-gathering!
Shades of Trofim D. Lysenko!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko
Everyone knows who Lysenko was and what Lysenkoism is, you don't have to link it.
Maybe it only just learned about it and wanted to show off its "knowledge"?
Liz Cheney endorses Trump.
Texas Tribune
@TexasTribune
·
Follow
.@Liz_Cheney says if Donald Trump is the Republican nominee in 2024, she will not be a Republican. #TribFest22
Ok, bye Liz, don’t let the door hit you on the ass on your way to the Jackass Party.
*scans clipboard*
Liz Cheney... Liz Cheney... Liz... Cheney...
Yeah, sorry, I don't see your name here with either an '(R)' *or* a '(D)'.
The word starts with ‘C’
Also, '@Liz_Cheney' and '#TribFest' appearing in the same post together destroyed a little part of my... uh... soul.
Once again, it isn't the nominal conservatives who are deserting, it's the neo-cons.
They really hate that the voters rejected them.
Sounds a lot like the LP heads prior to MC.
UH OH! Guess who’s going to lead the Libertarian ticket in 2024?
Cheney/polis 2024. Dream ticket.
The Reason staff will be creaming themselves with erstatic joy.
Moar testing needed!
Isn't that always the case?
Academic job security.
"The earth's average temperature has increased by about 1.1 degrees Celsius since the 19th century due to man-made climate change. "
The average temperature may have increased 1.1°C since pre-industrial times, but that it is man-made has not been proven. It is very likely that some or even most of it is natural variation. Especially since the temperature where I live (New Jersey) varies about 55°C throughout the year. Given that the average thermometer in the 19th century had an accuracy of ±2°C, I’d have to say that we are within the margin of error of those times. Now modern thermometers are more accurate than the old mercury glass thermometers, but you cannot add precision to those earlier measurements just by averaging the pluses and minuses and assuming they average out.
"Under the 2015 Paris Agreement, the nations of the world committed to keep that increase from going 2 degrees Celsius above the pre-industrial global average."
The 2°C limitation was pulled from thin air and is, at best, a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess).
Don't worry. If the next century gives is -1.1 degrees we'll be treated to the exact same circus except it will be global cooling and pictures of dead dinosaurs and glaciers plowing under New York City.
See the "Global Cooling" scare of the 70s...
Yes; It was a thing.
And it will be again as we're in a cooling cycle.
But that's okay.. It doesn't matter anymore. It's just "changing" scare now... Sure glad the whack-jobs got that "global warming" changed to "climate changing" propaganda in time.
What ever happened to the hole in the Ozone Layer? Didn’t we all die in the 90s from that?
Sometimes I imagine a modern society 10,000 years ago, complete with MSNBC announcers pronouncing their dismay about the loss of habitat for the Ohio Basin polar bears, because the ice "which was once 1km thick is now only 250m and completely gone at some points". This is despite the huge beneficial impact that the melting of the ice sheets had on humanity as a species. Not that I'm claiming AGW is a good thing, but simply stating a fact that not all climate change is bad for humanity, and that it is reasonable to wonder if AGW may include any positive effects--for example, growing seasons will be longer at higher latitudes).
Grand Solar Minimum
Seems like an industrial society could adapt to warmer temperatures better than a pre-industrial society. And our pre-industrial ancestors had to deal with a lot more warming and a lot more sea level rise than we ever will. Most of it was a blessing, and the Earth became greener and more habitable.
But what if forcing people to live like our ancestors, i.e. short, physically hard lives, with few comforts but lots of pain, is the point?
At Copenhagen, the AGW crowd lamented sea-level rise: "Just two years ago, the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change predicted a worst-case scenario rise of 59 centimetres. But the accelerated melting of ice sheets in Antarctica and Greenland caused by faster warming means the worst case is now put at 1.2 metres. " When? By 2200... Current satellite data going back to 1993 has sea-levels rising about 3mm per year. The average, based on a set of tidal measurements over the last 220 years is 2mm/yr.
Fifty-nine centimeters in 190 years is just 3.1mm per year; a rise of 2 feet over 200 years seems like something we could plan for and adjust to and not at all like a geologically recent event. About 8500 years ago the largest lake in the world, Lake Agassiz, which once covered almost half-a-million square kilometers (about 180,000 square miles) of central Canada simply drained, virtually overnight in the geologic timescale, into the Arctic ocean. "The last major shift in drainage occurred about 8,400 calendar years before present (about 7,700 14C years before present). The melting of remaining Hudson Bay ice caused lake Agassiz to drain nearly completely. This final drainage of Lake Agassiz contributed an estimated 1 to 3 meters to total post-glacial global sea level rise. Much of the final drainage may have occurred in a very short time, in two or one events, perhaps taking as short as a year.
Because it's not about stopping climate change. Just like anti racism isn't about fighting racism. Just like defund the police isn't about defunding the police, just like open borders isn't about helping migrants... Should I go on?
It's about gathering power for oneself and one's tribe, plain and simple.
Thank Government Almighty, though, this is NOT true about Trump and Trumpistas!
Trump and his De-Regulation committee???
De-regulation was good and is good. And Trump did yea verily do some of that, which is now often being reversed by Der BidenFuhrer, sad to say. Invalidating votes (just because we don’t like which way the votes went) and tearing down democracy? Not so good!
Shit sandwich "A" v/s Shit sandwich "B", then... Vote libertarian!
I thought it was about feeling smug.
That helps to gather and keep power! When you come up to me and demand simple, equal sharing of power, I can be TOTALLY smug, deny you ANY power, and feel GOOD about it! Self-righteousness goes a LONG way here, for short-term gains!
(In other words, I agree with you, but smugness and power-piggery go together.)
Self-righteous.
“It is precisely when we feel so self-righteous - and properly so - that we are at greatest risk of overreaching and embracing simplistic solutions with devastating effects.”
-Bernard E. Harcourt in “The Counterrevolution” p 206
“Any movement that calls itself ‘scientific’ but fails to nurture opportunities for the testing of its own beliefs (most obviously when it murders or imprisons people who disagree with it) is not a scientific movement.”
-Steven Pinker p393 in Enlightenment Now.
“The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent full of doubt.”
Bertrand Russell
Can't help but think of South Park episode just hearing the word "smug".
Biden continue to lie about guns
“The speed of the bullet is five times that that comes out of the muzzle of most weapons,” Biden said, describing the popular hunting rifle as a “weapon of war.”
https://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-repeats-false-claim-about-ar-15-bullet-velocity-in-call-for-ban
Hey, muzzle velocity is not a number that can be mathematically compared to other numbers. "Bullet speed" is just a feeling, and has emotional impact that can be whatever anyone says on any day.
And I don’t get this one. Most of these other narrow truths or ‘1 truth & 1 lie’ have at least some sort of grounding, like ‘We have more Federal regulations preventing the killing of migratory waterfowl than we do children.’ It’s duplicitous in that one, non-federal law saying it’s not legal to kill any child is far more clear and effective than the vast and nuanced array of laws about killing waterfowl, the statement is narrowly correct. But the 5X velocity one isn’t in any real conceivable way correct.
It’s so bizarre it feels like a psyop, like either the NRA paid a speechwriter to make him say it so he looks like a moron (unlikely, though the NRA does like to waste money) or the deep state is making him say it to see how many times it gets retweeted among the faithful. Of course, by far the most likely situation is that we’re looking at a “For $1B, Bloomberg could’ve given every American $1M.” situation.
Or it's just a semi-senile old man who spouts semi-random thoughts.
Yes, but does he *believe* the random words that he says, or are they just random vocalizations, like some sort of Turret's?
Hmm. With the number of regulations we have these days, how long before we get to the point where we actually have more regulations than children?
Biden has also said that the recoil of an AR-15 is too heavy for a woman[1], so for home defense she should just randomly fire a shotgun through a door[2]. And this was over a decade ago, before any signs of senility.
[1] I've fired both an AR-15 and a 12-gauge shotgun. I can't hardly feel the recoil of an AR-15, but the shotgun is brutal. Perhaps Biden is so ignorant he mistakes noise for recoil, but claiming that women can't stand noise makes him a male chauvinist pig, as well as an idiot and liar.
[2] A guy in Genesee County, Michigan, followed Biden's advice. He's serving a sentence for 2nd degree murder.
Grand Solar Minimum. The sun is the driver of climate. Nowhere to run and it isn’t man made. CO2 driven “climate change” is a joke that is used to control you.
Nuclear is the answer to the energy crisis and fossil will be needed for as long as we’re alive.
2/3rds of the current estimated warming is due to urban stations where buildings have risen up around historical stations. A comparison from rural stations to urban stations shows a double heating effect from urban stations.
The urban heat island effect is not only well known, but it's been known for probably a hundred years now. Concrete obviously has an effect on local temperatures, and what that might do the climate as a whole isn't known to climatologists whatsoever.
The solar cycles are somewhat understood, but only in the short term since no data really exists for solar cycles prior to at best a few hundred years ago. Proxy indicators exist, but largely those are educated guesses at best. Given that the solar cycle could potentially be measured in millennia (or even millions of years), that isn't as helpful as some people would like.
The UHI compensation is wildly underestimated in global temperature data.
Maybe, but it doesn't really matter anyway. NOAA straight up fakes temperature data with 'adjustments' that they pull out of their ass so the whole thing from top to bottom are guesses piled on top of supposition piled on top of hopes piled on top of dreams.
In short: A pyramid of farce.
Slightly OT: humans, especially civilians, have many innate biases, including a sense of time extremely distorted by memory and life span. What we intuitively think of as a "long time", e.g a few hundred years (if that), is nothing for natural systems. Even since the start of the Holocene (end of the most recent glacial period) around 15,000 years ago is too short to appreciate the roughly 100,000 year cycle of glacial and inter-glacial periods, let alone the longer term trend of cooling over the past 6 million years, with dozens of oscillations.
IMO people fail to grok most natural cycles. Take forest fires, a natural phenomenon. Sure it takes up to 200 years for a forest to recover from a bad fire. But if we played the past like a movie sped up by 1,000,000x, we could watch fires sweep through any landscape and forests re-grow every hour or so. BTW, watching the Pleistocene and Holocene (roughly the span of significant ice pulses) at that speed would take about 2 years.
Ubiquitous nuclear power is a sure fire solution that the greens are not interested in, so it ain't about the climate.
Narrator: They are not, in fact, interested in solutions.
My backup plan for climate change:
Earth gets 2 degrees warmer: air conditioning.
Sea levels rise 30 cm (1 foot) in the next 100 years: build seawalls one foot higher.
If a hole forms in the sea wall get a Dutch kid to stick his finger in it
Sea levels rise 30 cm (1 foot) in the next 100 years:
build seawalls one foot highermove beach chairs back 6 ft.Unless you have sea walls that you, personally are responsible for, then the sea wall plan is probably more prudent.
It's all Henry Ford's fault.
His morally hazardous decree that black would be the new black for Model T's set the stage for falling albedo and rising temperatures.
A Constitutional amendment abolishing all colors of paint and paving except white can reverse the damage, and give critical theory a new lease on life.
They don't call em hot rods for nothing.
The threat of ‘scientists’ engaging in geoengineering is a far greater threat to humanity than natural variation of the climate. Admittedly, the climate and it’s natural variations can kill us just as dead but the idea that ‘science’ can mitigate that with geoengineering is tremendously unlikely.
Given the simple fact that they have no idea what’s causing any warming, proven by their inaccurate models, the idea that they can ‘nudge’ the climate in the ‘correct’ direction is perhaps the apex of stupidity.
And let us not forget that Earth definitely goes into glacial periods, for reasons that science doesn’t really seem to grasp, which should be a big red flag (the most likely culprit being solar cycles, given that the sun is obviously the primary source of heating in the solar system).
Recall that a frozen Earth is far, far more deadly to everything on the planet than warming and if ‘science’ triggers another ice age in some vain attempt to play god you’ll probably see a few billion deaths not to mention less oxygen and less speciation for whatever survives.
Mankind can certainly mitigate all of those eventualities, but even mitigation will result in enough death to make Stalin, Mao, and Hitler look like amateur’s.
Would not a frozen Earth lack droughts, storms, wildfires, and severe weather?
No, not in the slightest.
But the human species would no longer have to agonize about these events due to extinction. So pretty much a win/win.
A frozen earth seems pretty severe.
It would severely limit (or at least redistribute) arable, livable land, so things might get a little tense.
As in the movie A.I.
"the most likely culprit being solar cycles"
Solar cycles are 11 years in length. Glaciers much longer.
"Mankind can certainly mitigate all of those eventualities"
Maybe, but mankind relies on plants, which certainly don't have the capacity to adapt at the time scale necessary. Look at the famines that afflicted the planet in the 19th century. Within 3 to 6 months 10s of millions had died from the want of nutrition.
The sunspot cycle is 11 years, but that’s just the shortest symptom of solar variability. Around 700 – 500 years ago, sunspots were so rare that when _one_ appeared, it was a scientific sensation in China as well as Europe; now, there are multiple sunspots even at the minimum of the 11-year cycle. That era of no sunspots also was when the last Norse farmers were frozen out of Greenland, glaciers advanced rapidly in the Alps, and wolf packs roamed the streets of Paris.
"That era of no sunspots also was when the last Norse farmers were frozen out of Greenland,"
I don't think heating is related to sunspot activity. The Greenland business is connected with warm ocean currents. Of course it's all connected somehow, but CO2, is the new kid on the block and has been identified as a heat trapping gas for almost 200 years and has been shown to have dramatically increased. Ignoring CO2 and trying to pin warming on the sunspots seems disingenuous.
Because climate change is and has always been an excuse for power and nothing more.
Has there ever been any kind of mass movement/religion thing that was NOT about a quest for power?
The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.
Mencken (of course)
"Power is what all messiahs really seek: not the chance to serve."
is how that bit ends, too, I think.
It's difficult to see how Millerite and Jehovah's Witness leaders gained lasting power from repeated predictions of the imminent end of the world. OTOH, they way they just recalculated the date after each failed prediction is reminiscent of how the atmosphere "scientists" on government payrolls always predict more warming than actually occurs, but unlike real scientists never change their methods.
What I find most amusing about this is how perfectly analogous it is to issues where leftists are typically on the opposite side, like the HPV vaccine and safe injection sites. In both of those cases there is also a problem that causes suffering, a way to fix the problem that involves giving stuff up and exercising self-control, and a way to fix and/or alleviate the problem that does not. But in those cases, it is left who advocates the no sacrifices/damage control option and the right who advocates self control and sacrifice.
The answer to this contradiction, as others have pointed out, is that the environmentalists value making sacrifices for their own sake (in the same way conservatives who oppose the HPV vaccine support sexual abstinences for its own sake). They want people to make sacrifices for the environment, the climate is just a means to the ends of persuading people to do so.
Both sides need to realize that the perfect is the enemy of the good. People are often unwilling or unable to practice discipline and make sacrifices, so it's really important to find ways to solve or alleviate problems that avoid making sacrifices whenever possible.
Shiite vs. Sunni.
Or maybe Scientologist vs. Sunni.
Vs Esther Hicks
Because climate change isn't really about climate change.
It is about attacking our way of life!
My longtime Usenet ally, Christopher Charles Morton, provided data on climate change.
https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=380576&p=4522430#post4522430
Post it here because the site is passworded.
My longtime Usenet ally, Christopher Charles Morton, explains climate change.
https://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=380576&p=4522359#post4522359
Umm, we don't have logins to that.
With unlimited immigration?
I actually have to agree with them. Global warming is real, but it's not that big a deal - humans were first evolved in the desert (or near to it). On the other hand, global cooling would really fuck the planet up if it triggered another ice age.
Over the 3 million years of our evolution North Africa went through many cycles of wet and dry. We were semi aquatic at one point. Just look at your webbed fingers.
Human civilization fueled by fossil fuels has only been around for a couple hundred years. Not 3 million.
One nitpick: we are clearly a rainforest or tropical grassland species. We are completely unsuited for desert life due to the easily burned skin.
However, I will agree that we are a tropical species and are unable to live in colder environments without fire, shelter, and clothing,
Are you familiar with any human population anywhere that does without fire, shelter or clothing?
According to the records of Magellan's voyage, the natives of Tierra Del Fuego (the island off the tip of South America) had fire but not shelter or clothing. On cold nights, and it got very cold there, they'd huddle in an open pit around a fire. It's possible these stories were exaggerated; this tribe was extinct before anyone but superstitious Spanish sailors and grandees saw them. But AFAIK, archaeologists haven't found any remains of native buildings or clothing to contradict the early Spanish accounts.
Patagonians wore clothes. There's a great Werner Herzog documentary on Bruce Chatwin (2019) which shows film and photos taken in the early part of the last century of highly decorative ceremonial native costumes, mostly semi-nude body painting, but with hats and shoes.
"The underlying worry isn't that the technology will be a flop. In fact, the most vigorous opponents seem convinced that research into stratospheric geoengineering will show tremendous promise to combat warming quickly and cheaply. And that, they fear, could be the most dangerous finding of all."
Well yeah, that's because the whole point of green/eco ideology is a massive power grab and more specifically an attempt to bring the entire population and all areas of society under totalitarian control. They want to downsize humanity and put us "back in our place" so any fix that doesn't require total control, depopulation and developmental regression, is a threat to the true cause.
The true seriousness of the "threat" can be clearly seen in how many different little things they insist on worrying about in the face of "coming doom". Nuclear isn't perfect enough so we can't use that.. Want wind farms? "OMG think of the birds", same with solar farms... Dams? Think again, it might hurt that single specific river system... can't have that.
But think of the joy in growing a bowl of artisan tomatoes (joy including hauling water, and spending hours fending off birds and rodents). And then the joy of feeding your family for a week with that bowlful.
Libertarians for top-down global engineering projects.
Be fair. This stuff appeals to the sci-fi wing of Libertopians.
SQWRLSY, White Indian, and Bailey?
As long as they're privately funded.
This!!!
The narrative arc of climate change as a pretext for social intervention has swung 360 degrees since Ron renounced climate denial two decades ago.
Beyond Naomi Klein at The New Yorker, and Naomi Oreskes on cable and public TV, Jacobin 's honest-to-gosh Marxists are in full cry :
https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2022/09/jacobins-canadian-comedian-free-red.html
"In other words, fossil fuels are terrible: tools of oppression, exploitation, corruption, and injustice. It’s just that we as a culture haven’t insisted on perceiving them in this way."
We just need to insist harder. It all makes sense now!
"has swung 360 degrees "
So it's exactly where it was when "Ron renounced climate denial two decades ago."?
Because there's where a 360 degree swing takes you.
It's almost like climate alarmism is an anti-capitalist boondoggle and not actually scientific.
The Fight To Stop Research Into a Cheap, Effective Backup Plan for Climate Change
It's the fight to stop useless projects by panicked ninnies scared out of their wits by the CO2 bogeyman.
Christ! Bailey. Put a cool cloth on your forehead and lie down quietly for a while.
"Christ! Bailey. Put a cool cloth on your forehead and lie down quietly for a while."
Bailey should STOP being upset by this? He should STOP warning us about pro-ignorance, anti-data-collection power pigs? Do you FAVOR ignorance, and the power pigs that prevent us from collecting data? If so... Then WHY? Is it asking too much of you, to tell us WHY?
Put a cool cloth on your forehead and lie down quietly for a while.
He needs to put a plastic bag over his head and lie down for a long while.
I think it's just an experiment. The climate alarmists don't want solutions because it's about power not climate.
IceTrey gets it! Hip-hip-hooray for IceTrey!!!
Left wing journalists and economists are the dumbest of people.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/25/inflation-price-controls-robert-reich
Don't give them the benefit of the doubt. They're evil. They want to take our liberty.
https://www.newsweek.com/louisiana-schoolgirls-told-forgive-rapists-field-trip-sparks-outrage-1745709
“Bonnie Kersch, mother of a girl who attended, said her daughter didn't realize the event would be so religious. Kersch said: ‘She felt she was duped into thinking that she was going for a college and career fair, that she was proselytized over and prayed over.’"
Yeah, it's called Christianity, White Mike. Forgiving someone no matter how egregious the offence against you has been doctrine for 2000 years. Part of letting go of the hurt.
Still doesn't mean that rape is okay and the perpetrator isn't punished for the crime.
But I'm pretty sure you knew this, and were just trying to be a good team blue culture warrior by taking demagogic cheapshots.
Mike, learn about the concept of “perpetual victimhood”:
https://www.manpatria.com/articles/perpetual-victimhood-the-great-socio-political-plague-of-our-nation
Democrats are supporting the idea of forever victimhood on groups. Props to all rape victims that strive to not let their horrifying event define their lives.
"The earth's average temperature has increased by about 1.1 degrees Celsius since the 19th century due to man-made climate change."
BULLSHIT!
“Commenters are now able to edit comments during the first 5 minutes after posting”
Good job, Reason.
Credit where credit is due.
Poor Rachel Carson must be rolling over in her grave…in an attempt to kick herself for not coming up with this crap on her own back in the day! (Silent Spring….PSHAA!!)
At least it’s not too late for Paul Ehrlich to join the growing crowd!!
I’m surprised this wasn’t a classified DOD project decades ago, which raises the question: does it really work? If it did, you would think they would already be spraying sulfates into the atmosphere to reduce the temperature. Otherwise, this sounds like just another way to piss away money on more research.
Ed 16 hours ago
"It’s always seemed to me that there was either an undercurrent or a vocal but extreme minority position in the environmental movement that what humans are doing to the planet is immoral in some way, and that humans need to have their (our) footprint on the earth cut way way back..."
Avoiding the history of religions in general, the greenies are but proselytizers/seers of a post-mosaic religion and the "original sin" meme transfers quite nicely.
"post-mosaic religion"
Even though I know what it means, I still trip over this phrase almost every time and mentally see people worshiping a tiled wall image.
If Fusion power was perfected tomorrow and could be widely implemented within 10+ years, the environmentalists would go ballistic. Making their opposition to nuclear power look like modest criticism at a yearly government employee evaluation.
"Making their opposition to nuclear power look like modest criticism at a yearly government employee evaluation."
No, fusion doesn't have the problems associated with fission. Fuel is not scarce, waste is not significant, and weapons proliferation doesn't seem to be a concern. And the opposition to nuclear fission is overstated. China and India, the two nations that are setting the agenda, are fully on board with nuclear fission.
The Fight To Stop Research Into a Cheap, Effective Backup Plan for Climate Change
We don’t need a “backup plan for climate change”; it is just fine for mean global temperatures to keep slowly rising at the rate they are rising right now.
And the idea that institutions that can’t even prevent inflation, market crashes, handle COVID, or mass migrations should be trusted to manage the global climate is ludicrous. Not only would they likely kill millions in the attempt (and blame others for it) through sheer incompetence, they would inevitably use these tools to advance the interests of powerful special interests.
Rejoice, Ron— your commentariat has been saved, Saved !
Three New Zealand wise men have proposed a moratorium on climate change research
https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2022/09/think-of-all-money-it-will-save-on.html
“The earth's average temperature has increased by about 1.1 degrees Celsius since the 19th century due to man-made climate change”
False. Glacial cycles occur - exceptionally regularly - every 120,000 years. Of the last 5 cycles, we are currently tied for the 4th warmest. The slope of the temperature increases in interglacial periods is parallel - i.e. the rate of increase is the same. We’re starting to see the fluctuations in temp that generally closely precede re-entry into an Ice Age, which is just about due.
Look at the chart, not the “spin”:
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/ContentFeature/GlobalWarming/images/epica_temperature.png
"We’re starting to see the fluctuations in temp that generally closely precede re-entry into an Ice Age, which is just about due."
We're already in an ice age, and have been for some time. The ice at the north and south pole is a dead giveaway.
"By dispersing bright particles into the stratosphere where they would reflect sunlight back out into space, the theory goes, humanity might be able to generate a kind of global sunscreen and cool the warming earth. "
The planet needs sunlight on the surface, not in outer space. And the climate change issue is about too much CO2 in the atmosphere, not a lack of sulfur, or too much sunlight.
Which is funny because "green" life depends on CO2.
It's a war against plant life! Suffocate the "green"! 🙂
Human life depends on water.
Go drink a lake.
According to you Nazi-fans; we already have... Another Drought?
Only a Nazi-fan has the ability to invent anti-matter. 🙂
"Which is funny because “green” life depends on CO2."
Plants die without water and sunlight. CO2 is necessary but not sufficient. With these 3 ingredients, plants produce far more energy than human kind does. They also give us oxygen. Plants don't require sulfur and it's unlikely they would benefit from our foolish efforts to increase the sulfur levels in the atmosphere.
The notion of "greenhouse gases" tends to be the fact that the capture and retain the heat from the sun's rays. We can reduce greenhouse gases, reduce the sun's rays, or some combination of both.
Because they have no desire to solve a problem, problems they invent are tools to achieve their real goals, nothing more.
At the end of the day, nothing could possibly be more catastrophic than oil companies not sucking every last drop of oil from the earth they can possibly find.
And you would be wrong. Have a read:
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0991718208/reasonmagazinea-20/
But Nazi's can't conquer the USA if they can't play the zero sum game.
Einstein is their biggest enemy (E=mc^2)
But , Tony, by that logic we should suck and suck while we concurrently find a better way. This business of "everybody suffers terribly now so we can survive in the future" seems a mental disorder. is there any way that you can see Europe's position as a good thing? All the Green nonsense and now it looks like people might freeze to death.
So the main objectors are the those invested in the current solutions to the alleged crisis. Gosh.
Remember when the earth's atmosphere consisted primarily of carbon dioxide, methane and water vapor without hardly any of that pesky O2? Then the stupid cyanobacteria invented photosynthesis and started polluting the atmosphere with billions of tons of O2 into the air? Since life was totally anaerobic 2.7 billion years ago when cyanobacteria evolved, it is believed that oxygen acted as a poison and wiped out much of anaerobic life, creating an extinction event.
Bailey: "But what if those projections are wrong and the planet warms much faster than calculated?"
Considering that every projection has been wrong in the opposite direction, I don't see that as a possibility.
"Considering that every projection has been wrong in the opposite direction"
Those monitoring the atmosphere have long been predicting higher CO2 concentrations and higher temperature. Both predictions have been borne out in observation. What more do you want from a scientist?
WWII - complete and utter contradiction to the narrative.
More CO2 ever than before released; the fastest drop in temperature ever seen.
But don't left FACTS get in the way of a B.S. narrative.
Then why is REASON making such a crybaby outburst about the Texas Internet law? It is exactly things like this article discusses that get censored and even get the posters banned !!!
I have never seen an Al Gore backer blocked but Patrick Moore Phd, former Greenpeacer (in fact a co-founder) and his supporters have been blocked repeatedly
UH-OH, morals and human rights : I will never see the moves to keep Africa from fossil fuels as anything but a crime against humanity. Even if there were a climate crisis and even if Africa was contributing to it. Help living people FIRST.
I propose one change to the aerosol spraying project: Instead of *paying* to spread chemicals in the upper atmosphere, we should merely relax the sulfur limits on commercial aviation fuel.
Then fuel becomes less expensive, commercial air travel becomes less expensive, some SO2 is left in the stratosphere to scatter sunlight back into space, and an unnecessary government boondoggle is avoided.
As a corollary, the (re)emerging supersonic transport sector should be deregulated too so it can get going sooner with its higher-altitude flights.
Deregulation with supersonic transport and free global-warming mitigation as natural consequences -- What's not for a libertarian to love?