Brickbat: It's a Gas, Gas, Gas

The California State Legislature has approved a bill banning single-use propane canisters, such as those used by campers for cooking. Gov. Gavin Newsom is expected to sign the bill into law. Supporters say the bill will reduce litter and improve the safety of the park workers who must clean up cans discarded by campers.

Comments

[Eeyore]

You must be fucking kidding me.

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[Social Justice is neither]

No, they're kid fuckers not fucking kidding you

[Adans smith]

It seems the commerce clause does not exist in California . Wickard v Filburn needs to be reversed.

[kcuch]

The Legislative 20th Century needs to be repealed.

[GroundTruth]

The judicial 20th Century needs to be reversed.

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[Jerryskids]

I didn't know you were allowed to go outside in California,

[BigT]

Don’t give Alfred E Newsom any ideas.

[Jefferson's Ghost]

Complete, utter insanity.

[SQRLSY One]

Bears shitting in the woods should ALSO be outlawed, since bear turds ALSO present hazards to Californicated parks workers!

[SQRLSY One]

Bear with me here now... I hope that I'm not bruining the thread here, but... In the name of pubic decency and pubic sanitation, that bear on the Californicated State flag? In the future, said bear should no longer be bare, but should be portrayed wearing a DIAPER! (Until such time as bears STOP this crazy pooping-in-the-woods thing, at least!)

Also, I sense an opportunity for pubic schools to start programs up to and including the PhD level, for training bears to be more pubic-sanitation-minded!

[Jefferson's Ghost]

Don't fret: the bear on the CA flag is a California Grizzly. It's been extinct for nearly 100 years... just about as long as decent government in CA.

[Eeyore]

Bears are dangerous. They should be exterminated.

[Mr. Bumble]

"Whatever it is their against it"

[MatthewSlyfield]

Annoying, but hardly disastrous.

Home Depo has refillable propane tanks as small as 5lbs.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Flame-King-5-lbs-Empty-Propane-Cylinder-with-Overfill-Protection-Device-YSN5LB/308859759?ITC=AUC-48604-23-12070

[Mr. Bumble]

They'll be next.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Uh, let's see you hike for a week with one of those on your back.

[R Mac]

Just eat the bugs already.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

The copy sayeth, "Flame King steel portable propane cylinders come in various sizes ranging from 1 lb. To 100 lbs."

Home Depot doesn't sell anything smaller than the 5 lb version though.

If it has the usual huge filling nozzle, the 1 lb one might not be much smaller or lighter.

[Kungpowderfinger]

That’s probably the point of all this (besides just endlessly making laws, that’s what the uni-party in CA does). The Dem’s that control CA still need to occasionally pander to the Sierra Club types, who are opposed to human beings in general, let alone the proles using “their” pristine wilderness:

https://www.sierraclub.org/sierra/green-life/wildlife-hates-hikers-wilderness-disturbance?amp

[Eeyore]

California is going to have a lot more forest fires. Because that is going to be the unintended outcome of banning a safe heat source.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

"The road to hell..."

Which is not to say that the intentions are good, by the way.

[Mike Laursen]

That’ll fit nicely in a backpack!

[Rossami]

A 5 lb tank is 4 1/2 lbs too heavy for a backpacker. This is going to drive serious campers to either stick stoves (which are a fire hazard in dry conditions or back to white-gas (which campers moved away from for very good reasons).

Mind you, I have multiple of each of these stoves. Stick-stoves are great out east where the forests are wet and the fire risks are low. The stove's a little heavier than the other options but you don't have to carry fuel. And white gas is your best option anytime you're headed above the tree line or temperatures drop below 20F. But for beginning and intermediate backpackers, the isobutane canisters are really popular because they work.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

They're safe and effective.

[Gasman]

a 5 pound tank is about 12 pounds too heavy. Empty tank weights 7 pounds, 12 pounds when filled.
I agree that litter is a problem, and that no camper should abandon their trash, whether these single use canisters, or anything else. Pack/carry out your trash.

[Stuck in California]

White gas is already illegal in California.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Apparently that is true; so no liquid gas or propane, which leaves wood fire as the only alternative [assuming that is "allowed"]. Maybe you can cook over a candle?

[Ben of Houston]

Knowing the people in Sacramento, they think that when you camp, you should be able to order a pizza.

[Eeyore]

Somebody really fucking hates the hippies walking the Pacific coast trail.

Going to have to leave the state and buy a half dozen then drive the length of the state to cache them to pick up on the way. No more buying them along the way.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

The California Commissars continue to do righteous work. Besides litter, these cans are filled with FOSSIL FUEL. Each one is enough to melt a glacier, raise sea level by a fortnight, and cause a minor hurricane.

Backpackers in California should be excited to embrace this change as part of the state plan to overhaul life as we know it. Once receiving their travel permits, hikers will be provided with approved vegan food kits and a solar oven. And don't forget to use your human poop bags, since these will be collected and counted (an actual real thing).

[m40195971]

Amusing.

But that leads to a simple rhetorical question: could they not have achieved the same goal (reducing littering of tanks) by counting propane tanks brought to the trail and how many are returned?

Of course they could.

They could also collect a refundable $50 deposit to ensure hikers return to verify return of empty tanks at the end of the trail. Unrefunded deposits could be used for beautification.

There’s no need for a ban. This is simply about control, not maintenance worker safety.

[Don't look at me!]

It’s very comforting to know that this improve the safety of the park workers .

[ducksalad]

Yeah, let's see.

Since the law exempts cans with height/width ratio of 3.55:1 or greater (like the ones you'd use for a propane torch), some people will try to use them. Then their gas lamps and single burner stoves will tip over. Of course an even larger group of people will just gather some dry sticks and make a real fire.

Maybe CA figures they're fully saturated with wildfires anyway.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Ban It State

[Rockstevo]

This law, does it outlaw the sale in state or the possession? If it is the sale, then F'em. Smart entrepreneurs should be building giant "NoCals" stores right across the border or on reservations to sell all the items outlawed by these geniuses.

[ducksalad]

Clicked through to the actual article:

1. Propane disposables banned, but isobutane disposables allowed. Since the claimed problem is disposed empties, it's not clear why they did this.

2. Exceptions for government agencies, of course.

3. Exception for a "height-to-width ratio of 3.55 to 1 or greater". Are long, thin cans less polluting?

4. There are refillable 1 lb cylinders but just a refill costs more than a disposable can w/ fuel.

Add it all up and it looks like they're targeting one specific type of product based on characteristics that don't make it more or less polluting.

It would be interesting to know what contact manufacturers of refillables, isobutane disposables, and long,thin disposables had with state legislators.

Rockstevo: So far it's a ban on manufacture and retail sales. So, yeah, there's a business opportunity here. Hell, maybe Oregon camping goods stores did some lobbying in California too.

[Kungpowderfinger]

maybe Oregon camping goods stores did some lobbying in California too.

Why not? Mexico has been doing it for years, if by lobbying you mean bribing politicians:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdca/pr/campaign-consultant-ravneet-singh-re-sentenced-conspiring-mexican-billionaire-buy-san

[ducksalad]

My take on bribery: I don't particularly care who's buying. I'm worried about who's selling.

[Eeyore]

It doesn't really seem to solve any problems.

[Stuck in California]

Larpers aren't REALLY throwing lightning bolts, either.

[Ride 'Em]

The width to height ratio is probably a nod to union plumbers and welders both who use oxygen and gas tanks.

[IceTrey]

Maybe enforce the anti littering laws?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

No cash bail, decriminalze non violent crimes. Equity. This is what you're left with.

[TJJ2000]

Stage #2 of building a Nazi-Empire...

Lock up all the human resources.. Make the people BEG for more Government to save them from the curses of government.

This narrative isn't new. It's been the running narrative of all tyrannical dictated nations.

[cgr2727]

Right, banning small canister stoves will work out great, because nothing bad has ever happened in California when people in the woods have open campfires, right?

[Jerry B.]

Buy an MSR Whisperlight, or something similar. It burns kerosene or unleaded gasoline. Nothing to throw away.

Probably wouldn’t hurt to buy some gasoline while you still can in Cali.

https://shop.gohunt.com/products/msr-whisperlite-international-stove?variant=32318140710999&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrrfou6T--QIVy56zCh0cOABgEAQYDiABEgJHxPD_BwE

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Been googling this subject and it is pretty arcane; right up you have to get a permit in order to use any kind of flame in CA, and some areas like the PCT ban pretty much any and everything to do with fire.

This is what happens when urban activists get into a position to eradicate whatever they do not like or agree with.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

Supporters say the bill will reduce litter and improve the safety of the park workers fuck with the middle class since they do most of the camping.

[kcuch]

improve the safety of the park workers who must clean up cans discarded by campers.

I think this is targeted at homeless encampments in parks. Keep whittling away at their comforts.

It's in the playbook:

"Look, we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue...that we couldn't resist it." - John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.

[Utkonos]

The Cali-Ban strike again!
(And yet, mysteriously, life in “the world’s 5th largest economy” continues to turn to crap while becoming ever more expensive!)

[Entelechy]

Great news for the alcohol stove and fire axe industries

[sarcasmic]

Is this a problem? When I pick up trash at cap sites it's usually empty Bud Light cans and Dunkin Donuts cups. I've never seen one of those green cans.

[NoVaNick]

As with most bans, follow the money. Some manufacturers of non-propane canisters probably paid a lobbying group to push this through under the guise of worker/consumer protection. Same with the bans on gas stoves that we are seeing.

[Brandybuck]

Oh well, back to Sterno.

[Quo Usque Tandem]

Napalm in a can.