No, PPP Doesn't Justify Biden's Student Loan Bailout
The proper response to one failed bailout is not another bailout of a different group.
![student loan student debt forgiveness Joe Biden White House COVID-19 Paycheck Protection Program bailout student loan student debt forgiveness Joe Biden White House COVID-19 Paycheck Protection Program bailout | Bonnie Cash - Pool via CNP/CNP / Polaris/Newscom](https://d2eehagpk5cl65.cloudfront.net/img/c800x450-w800-q80/uploads/2022/08/polspphotos958559-800x450.jpg)
Let's be very clear about one thing up front: The federal government's Paycheck Protection Program, which effectively paid businesses to keep workers on their payroll even if they temporarily closed during the COVID-19 pandemic, was a mess.
After quickly burning through its initial allocation of $349 billion, the Paycheck Protection Program was reauthorized a few times and ended up costing more than $820 billion, making it one of the largest components of the federal government's humongous COVID relief effort. Despite being lauded by both Democrats and Republicans, independent analysis found that the program was a hugely expensive failure. Only about one-third of the program's money actually went to workers who would have otherwise lost their jobs, according to a National Bureau of Economic Research study. Another study by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis found that taxpayers paid roughly $4 for every $1 of wages and benefits to workers.
That is, to put it mildly, not the kind of government program that should serve as a model for other policies.
And yet, advocates for the student loan forgiveness program announced by President Joe Biden this week keep bringing up the Paycheck Protection Program as if it somehow justifies this latest expensive government bailout. It started, as most stupid arguments do, on Twitter, where progressive activists, advocacy groups like the Center for American Progress, and lawmakers like Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.) made the comparison in various ways. "If we could afford to cancel hundreds of billions in PPP loans to business owners in their time of need, please do not tell me we can't afford to cancel all student debt for 45 million Americans," Sanders tweeted on Tuesday.
That's a silly argument, of course. The federal government can afford to do a lot of things. Governing is about setting priorities; deciding which things are both affordable and worth doing.
By the end of the week, however, the White House had adopted the Paycheck Protection Program comparison as a key talking point in defending the student loan bailout. Over the past two days, the White House's official Twitter account has called out Republican members of Congress who received Paycheck Protection Program loans and later had those loans forgiven.
Yes, it's admittedly fun to watch Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R–Ga.) get dunked on, but this comparison wouldn't make much sense even if the Paycheck Protection Program had been a success—which, again, it wasn't.
For one, the loans were a response to an unexpected emergency, and they were intended to make whole individuals who were put out of work, in many cases, by the government's own decision to force businesses to close. As you're probably aware, the government does not force anyone to take out a student loan. (In fairness, the federal subsidized loan programs do create bad incentives for borrowers, but that's not quite the same.)
Additionally, the loans handed out by the Paycheck Protection Program and subsequently forgiven were a temporary thing. If the analogy to student debt relief is accurate, then the government would have to also stop handing out discounted student loans that have warped the marketplace and created this entire mess. That would be a good idea! Too bad it isn't happening.
Instead, Biden has announced a series of changes in how future loan repayment will work that could unspool into a major disaster for colleges and students by causing schools to hike tuition to astronomical levels. Even progressive policy wonks like Matt Bruenig are already expressing concern about this possibility.
The Paycheck Protection Program might have been a wasteful exercise, but the fact that it was a temporary program meant that it did not create ongoing perverse incentives in the marketplace. A business owner couldn't keep her business closed indefinitely and collect ever-larger loans under the program, but colleges will absolutely raise tuition prices and keep collecting growing piles of money from students getting government-subsidized loans—heck, that's what colleges have been doing for years.
Still, probably the most important failing of this comparison is what I covered at the very top of this post. The Paycheck Protection Program was a mess! Yes, Taylor Greene and other members of Congress got huge loans that they didn't have to pay back as part of the federal government's bloated and wasteful COVID emergency measures. You should be outraged about that. But the proper response to one failed bailout is not another bailout.
At its core, this comparison of the Paycheck Protection Program to the student loan forgiveness program boils down to "someone else got free money, so I deserve free money too." That's the sort of logic you'd expect from a toddler, not from anyone who ever aspired to attend college and certainly not from the White House's official messaging apparatus.
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The government breaks your leg and says, "Here have a crutch. Aren't you glad the government around?"
Two days later the government is giving your wallet to someone else, and exclaims, "How dare you complain. I gave you a crutch, you hypocrite!"
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I'm going to revert to my whiny progressive avatar.
I didn't get anything from PPP or any of the stimulus handouts. Not, one, red, cent. I sure as fuck was locked in my house, couldn't attend my best friend's funeral, was forced to wear the mask of shame if I wanted to buy food to eat...
Busted leg, no crutch, stolen wallet, and a kick in the balls because I made the decision not to take out debt I'd struggle to repay.
I want my $10,000. I deserve $10,000, and I deserve whatever payments people got in 2020 just because they had kids, too. It's only fair, I mean, I chose not to have children so I'm saving the planet from all the carbon they'd emit if I'd had them.
Gimme. If we're going to hell anyway, I want my free handbasket.
"If [student] loans are so predatory and awful that forgiving them at taxpayer expense is morally justifiable, then the first and most important step for the US government to take is to stop issuing them."
Amen.
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I agree you deserve the $10000 with interest!
I didn't get it either and paid my student loans. The moral - don't be responsible!
In Ireland they just break your legs and keep blaming you (if you're a landlord).
The PPP wasn't a bail out. It's not as if these businesses suddenly made bad decisions and over-extended themselves and demanded the government(taxpayers) pay for their bad decisions.
The PPP loans were for businesses to keep paying their employees after the government dictators closed their business because of the China-flu. The loans were forgiven IF the businesses actually used the funds for that purpose. The program was greatly mismanaged and a large amount of the funds were fraudulently dispersed. That wasn't the taxpayers fault either. That was government incompetence (we have a lot of that these days).
The student debt transfer is taking money from taxpayers to pay the debt of students who made bad decisions and purchased a faulty product from universities. Universities and students both received a (questionable) benefit, but the taxpayers get to pay. Now the universities can continue to sell faulty products to gullible students who will expect them to be bailed out as well.
NOT THE SAME AT ALL.
In many cases the Students actually didn't buy a faulty product. Many students bought a degree that will substantially help their future, whether in skills or networking or whatever. There is clear and compelling evidence that a doctor with crushing debt will still make out like a bandit over the long term. And college grads on average will earn 50% or more over the long term compared to people without a degree.
I have no love of the universities, and there are lots of problems there as well. But the primary reason Universities are so expensive, and kids are ending up substantially in debt is not the fault of students or of universities, any more than the rising price of your gasoline is the fault of you or Exxon.
This problem is the fault of Government, who has made money too easy to access, and therefore created massively perverted market incentives. The same thing happened during the housing crisis, when government support of GSEs like Fannie Mae allowed the mass proliferation of housing loans, which caused a bubble in the housing market. The same thing happens in the healthcare industry where funneling people into insurance policies makes them unaware of how much their demand costs.
Should an individual be responsible for their own decisions? Sure, I am not disputing that. But the constant, systematic growth of government funding is the driving force behind the general growth in these costs.
I rail against governmental policies in housing all the damned time.
2008s lessons were not learned. Not one single person was prosecuted for fraud, yet banks had rooms full of "robosigners" falsifying documents, for example. The word "robosigners" was polite speak for "forgers" as it was people signing documents they didn't originate because they didn't have the originals.
The industry, save Lehman, was entirely bailed out. Not only that, they were given essentially free money with almost no restraints, while individuals were significantly restricted from getting mortgages by Dodd/Frank, so the people they were ostensibly protecting -- responsible borrowers looking for a conventional loan -- found it nearly impossible to buy the bargain priced homes while REITs and foreign moneyed interests were buying forclosures in all cash at big discounts.
Everything the government did just encouraged bad decisions and fucked the middle class guy trying to do right. Note: both Hillary and McCain were even talking about bailing out the people who took loans they couldn't afford during the campaign. More perverse incentives.
Health care? Same thing. Obamacare codified a completely broken system that organically grew because of byzantine governmental tax policies that heavily incentivized workplaces to pay in health care policies instead of cash. Government caused the problem, encouraged the bad behavior, then "solved" it by making everything a whole lot worse.
And, yes, I am very bitter about health care and housing as I've been fucked, hard, in both cases. Glass in the vaseline level of fucked. And the government's response is always to give more money to someone else.
The industry, save Lehman, was entirely bailed out.
Washington Mutual was seized and the stockholders wiped out. No bail out. Same with Bear Stearns. Same with Countrywide. Also Merrill Lynch. Many other smaller banks too.
And the remaining Wall St banks were bought by the government via TARP with preferred stock. When they paid TARP back with high interest they ownership changed back.
2008 was incredible in every bad way if you were paying attention.
Oh and AIG. Holy shit, that was a fiasco. The worst of them all.
Don't forget strong-arming Bank of America to overpay for Merrill by like 50 billion dollars. And saving GM shareholders by pulling the rug out from under GM bondholders -- people who bought bonds for the express reason that they are supposed to be paid first when the exhaust hits the fan.
I could have made a fortune in 2008 by shorting WaMu stock, but didn't do it in time. I did make a fair chunk of change in 2020 shorting travel industry stocks. I felt bad about it since the lockdowns were dooming them, but my family's gotta eat, as they say. And we sure weren't getting any stimulus checks.
I should add because this is H&R where every word is scrutinized that Bear Stearns had a nominal sale price on the stock of $2.00 when it was selling for over $100 share a year earlier.
$2 was all anyone would pay for it due to the liquidity crisis. JP Morgan bade many billions on it later.
A few years back you posted kiddy porn to this site, and your initial handle was banned. The link below details all the evidence surrounding that ban. A decent person would honor that ban and stay away from Reason. Instead you keep showing up, acting as if all people should just be ok with a kiddy-porn-posting asshole hanging around. Since I cannot get you to stay away, the only thing I can do is post this boilerplate.
https://reason.com/2022/08/06/biden-comforts-the-comfortable/?comments=true#comment-9635836
Don't respond to SPB, just shun him.
Why is that dude even responding to me? He's been a grey bar since like... a week after I made an account.
Overt, you have grokked the root of the issue of governmental buttfuckery. Create a problem, then don't fix it, just keep making changes that fuck other things up. You always have work that way.
Politically, it seems like a justification that works quite well: "you bailed out corporations, you bailed out Hollywood stars, now we want our cut!"
US schools already charge astronomical levels of tuition.
And I don't see how this is a "disaster" for either colleges or students. Colleges get fabulously richer. And the tuition colleges will charge will always be such that students can pay it somehow.
It's taxpayers who are going to suffer, not colleges or students.
Money printer go brrrrrr
Given the amount of graft and fraud in PPP, it justifies never doing another bailout.
It does justify locking up a lot of people, most of them in the government.
No, program like PPP don't justify other bailouts, but if you have ponied up to the bar and taken government money you should be careful about criticizing programs for others. There is a real case of people, in this case Republicans, punching down.
"but if you have ponied up to the bar and taken government money you should be careful about criticizing programs for others. "
Getting paid damages for a government action is not the same as being paid for your own decisions. But you are also the one who was claiming that "Kindness" is giving away other peoples' money, so I suppose your inability to comprehend the english language should be expected.
Didn't get PPP. Didn't get the stimulus handouts. Didn't get the child credit handouts. Never got anything from government except what every person gets passively (like roads). I feel pretty justified in my criticism.
Government OWED damages for their asinine policies and demands that they not fire employees --- who the government banned from working.
Boehm, remember, you "reluctantly" voted for Biden, therefore this is partially on you. But, I'm sure you're glad just not to have to suffer mean tweets.
So? PPP wasn't Biden and it was worse.
They both suck. The Con Man and the Old Man.
A few years back you posted kiddy porn to this site, and your initial handle was banned. The link below details all the evidence surrounding that ban. A decent person would honor that ban and stay away from Reason. Instead you keep showing up, acting as if all people should just be ok with a kiddy-porn-posting asshole hanging around. Since I cannot get you to stay away, the only thing I can do is post this boilerplate.
https://reason.com/2022/08/06/biden-comforts-the-comfortable/?comments=true#comment-9635836
Don't respond to SPB, just shun him.
The "con man" wouldn't have forgiven student loans. He might have signed a huge "Save America bill" of his own, but it wouldn't have thrown billions of dollars into green energy projects in an energy crisis.
If you don't like the fascist power abuse, how about the ideological commitment to destroying the world? Vote Republican!
Last I looked, it was the Democrats destroying the world's economy. The planet will be just fine, but under the Dems and their allies in other nations (Trudeau, et.al.), we'll all starve and freeze.
The American economy is doing so great the fed seems to be under the impression that it needs cooling down.
Yeah, doing so well like it did in 1979-80. You do realize what the inflation rates were then, don't you?
"So? PPP wasn't Biden and it was worse."
PPP was caused by the GOVERNMENT forcing business to close. Student loan debt is a choice by the student.
Hey, the secret service just found $286 million dollars from fraudsters (probably Republicans and Libertarians.) Should be enough prosecution there to make many careers.
Except the government spends 686 million dollars every hour of every day, all year long.
After quickly burning through its initial allocation of $349 billion, the Paycheck Protection Program was reauthorized a few times and ended up costing more than $820 billion,
So it is about 260% worse than the awful student loan bailout.
A few years back you posted kiddy porn to this site, and your initial handle was banned. The link below details all the evidence surrounding that ban. A decent person would honor that ban and stay away from Reason. Instead you keep showing up, acting as if all people should just be ok with a kiddy-porn-posting asshole hanging around. Since I cannot get you to stay away, the only thing I can do is post this boilerplate.
https://reason.com/2022/08/06/biden-comforts-the-comfortable/?comments=true#comment-9635836
Don't respond to SPB, just shun him.
Well Eric the democrats are composed primarily of toddlers and toddler wannabes. Childlike reasoning is the product.
I completely admit to benefiting from the PPP Loan. At the moment the loan was taken out I had no idea how long businesses would be shut down. And while technically our business wasn't shutdown, we work in an industry affected by the shutdown. No one was building commercial property at a time when none of the businesses typically in a shopping complex are allowed to be open. So we took out a loan, didn't fire any employees, and used the loan to pay them as they worked from home. Then when business didn't drop as drastically as predicted we ended up with more net profit since less revenue was used to cover salaries since the PPP loan did that for a while. We gave our employees bonuses and put the remainder towards retirement.
We only took out the money with the knowledge that it would be forgiven if used appropriately. No fraud happened. We followed the rules of the program as set by Congress. So if people that received PPP loans were complaining about college loan forgiveness for those that signed up to work in low-income areas and fulfilled all requirements that were set out at the beginning of the loan as a way to have the loan forgiven then you have some analogy. But this is more like those that took out SBA loans in 2019 all of a sudden being told they don't have to pay the money back to the government. The original agreement didn't state forgiveness for proper use.
I hear the government is still subsidizing these predatory loans that they're bailing people out of. That's stupid.
Subsidizing? No. The government is making these predatory loans.
I'm neutral to negative on this policy for a couple reasons. I don't know the political calculus that went into it, but there are at least a couple considerations:
One, the henpecking of Bernie bros, whose big plan to achieve socialism is to threaten to turn the country over to Republicans if they don't get their way. (And recall they actually shot the hostage in 2016). In this case, I'll note the irony that the one policy concern they were adamant about was getting essentially a tax cut for themselves. In a few years, we can count on the Occupy youth to be totally fixated on their mortgage interest deduction, I'm sure.
Two, if we're talking about this, we're not talking about abortion.
Ok let's talk abortion? You love Europe right? You would sign up for 13-14 week limit correct? I mean that is what Europe has.
Let's play a game Tony. How often have the Dems had all 3 offices since 1973 at the same time. Why didn't they pass an abortion law?
It is Congress job isn't it? The Supreme court turned it over to the states which it should be.
If you cared so much about abortion, you would have a real law on the books.
All people live off of Government who's only ACTUAL 'tool' in the factory is a legal monopoly of GUNS (force by intimidation)????
Maybe they're just armed-robbing a top-secret money tree of imagination? Or more likely; people are missing rightfully *EARNED* value in their life's because armed-robbers think armed-robbery is the only source of survival.
Obviously it doesn't justify it, but it does address the complaints of "unfairness" that people who don't have student loan debt are whining about.
As an essential worker, I worked through the entire pandemic, all for the glorious wage of $11 an hour, meanwhile people got to stay at home for their full salaries thanks to PPP loans
How was that, fair, exactly? Unemployment was more than what most "essential" workers made, yet without us people wouldn't have had food. And did we get any sort of thanks? No,
Vote against everybody who championed those policies because, yes, it was utter bullshit.
First, thanks for still working. I did too.
The issue is the government closed these businesses. If the businesses wanted to stay open -they got arrest, fined, etc.
What did you expect them to do? Have 2 years saved up in case of something like this? Just all go out of business and not paying anymore?
I think PPP loans...well grants basically were needed because of the Government.
All of the bailouts should have been opposed, going back to TARP. Maverick McCain had a chance to beat Obama in 2008 by opposing TARP, but instead flew back to DC to make sure it passed.
Decent article but a huge point that it missed is that PPP loans were designed to be forgiven.
PPP loans were given with the acknowledgement that government had screwed over businesses by shutting them down over COVID and justified giving them forgivable loans knowing that it's their fault people were losing jobs in the first place. Still a worse plan than doing no loan program and letting businesses stay open, but there's at least an underlying logical consistency with PPP loans being forgiven. The same cannot be said for student loans that students took out at their own discretion and never were meant to be forgiven.
Let's call it for what it is.
They are throwing money at schools to continue the "message" indoctrination. They aren't just buying votes, they are investing in generational votes where they can enroll/recruit millions of more Democratic voters.
You know if Democrats, like Tony, Jeff, Brandy, etc are all for this student loan because of debt (even though no-one held a gun to their head).
Why aren't you working toward giving every one $10,000? American credit debt is huge. How is that any different?
I know you can't buy votes or keep funding your overpriced colleges for art studies/gender fluid studies/ Taylor Swift study (I sh*t you not)
Dictators don't need justification, or a legislature.