Ron DeSantis Wants To Edit the First Amendment
Florida’s governor claims unconstitutional powers that could be used to promote the "far-left" policies he decries.

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, a leading presidential contender, is skilled at appealing to Republicans who resent the censorious self-righteousness of woke progressives. But instead of defending free inquiry and open debate, DeSantis seems bent on fighting intolerance with intolerance.
When he signed the Individual Freedom Act (IFA) last April, DeSantis bragged that it would "prevent discriminatory instruction in the workplace," striking a blow against "the far-left woke agenda." But as a federal judge explained last week, the law's restrictions on employee training blatantly violate the First Amendment.
The IFA expanded Florida's definition of "unlawful employment practices" to include "any required activity" that promotes one or more of eight forbidden concepts. Some of those ideas are plainly illiberal (e.g., linking moral status to race) or patently silly (e.g., viewing virtues such as excellence, hard work, and fairness as white supremacist constructs), while others are ambiguous or debatable (e.g., the notion that "members of one race, color, sex, or national origin cannot and should not attempt to treat others without respect to race, color, sex, or national origin").
Whatever you think of those ideas, the government has no business decreeing whether and how they can be discussed in private workplaces. Yet that is what the IFA does: It allows discussion "in an objective manner without endorsement of the concepts" while forbidding speech that "espouses, promotes, advances, [or] inculcates" them.
As U.S. District Judge Mark Walker noted when he issued a preliminary injunction against those restrictions, they amount to "a naked viewpoint-based regulation on speech," which is presumptively unconstitutional. "Under our constitutional scheme," Walker observed, "the 'remedy' for repugnant speech 'is more speech, not enforced silence.'"
DeSantis argued that the IFA aims to prevent a "hostile work environment" created by ideas that might discomfit employees. Walker thought that was a stretch because that term encompasses speech only when it is "both objectively and subjectively offensive and when it is sufficiently severe or pervasive"—requirements that provide "shelter for core protected speech."
More to the point, conservatives have long criticized discrimination claims based on an allegedly hostile work environment precisely because they can transform otherwise protected speech into illegal "harassment." Yet DeSantis is not only defending that concept; he is extending it to cover even a single "required activity" that "espouses" ideas he does not like.
The governor's support for Florida's social media law evinces a similar lack of principle. That 2021 law prohibits platforms like Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube from removing or limiting access to content they deem objectionable, including material produced by "journalistic enterprises" and posts by or about political candidates.
As DeSantis saw it, the law would "ensure that 'We the People'—real Floridians across the Sunshine State—are guaranteed protection against the Silicon Valley elites." He said it would combat the "Big Tech censors" who "discriminate in favor of the dominant Silicon Valley ideology."
DeSantis likened Facebook et al.'s moderation decisions to the "censorship and other tyrannical behavior" of Cuban and Venezuelan despots. But as the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit pointed out when it blocked enforcement of Florida's law last May, such comparisons elide a constitutionally crucial distinction.
Unlike "Big Tech censors," an unconstrained government has the power to ban and punish controversial speech by force of law, as Florida sought to do with the IFA. The First Amendment, which aims to guard against that danger, does not impose any limits on the editorial judgment of private organizations.
On the contrary, the Supreme Court has repeatedly held that the First Amendment guarantees the right to exercise such discretion. But in Florida, Walker wryly noted, "the First Amendment apparently bars private actors from burdening speech, while the state may burden speech freely."
That backward view is not just diametrically wrong but dangerously shortsighted. Depending on the vicissitudes of elections, a government with the powers DeSantis has claimed easily could use them to advance "the far-left woke agenda" that keeps him awake at night.
© Copyright 2022 by Creators Syndicate Inc.
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Reason's spilled more ink bashing Ron DeSantis for confronting left-wing totalism than it has shining Jared Polis' shoes.
Let me know when Reason comes out in favor of repealing the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Until then, using the state to punish corporations that push racial essentialism is fair game.
Also, fuck Disney. Any company that openly supports abortion and offers to pay for its employees to kill their own children deserves to be strong-armed.
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I think an updated clearer interpretation of all rights is required.
Do you really think having the inalienable right to free speech means being persecuted for what you legally say, even in private?
What then would happen without the constitutional first amendment?
If you’re wringing your hands over who can be trusted to update the constitution, criminalize lying and wait a year for the worst offenders to be removed from their positions of influence.
When only the truth remains every rational person is in agreement.
Yes, both of them agree.
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You lack self respect.
And you are a literal nazi who seeks to wipe out the Jews.
Being a Jew is nothing more than being a member of Judaism.
Yes, by criminalizing lying, the Jewish religion becomes illegal.
It’s up to Jews if they want to correct their religion or abandon it.
Or we put an end to your naziism. I don’t favor your chances.
Your bogeyman means nothing to me.
But what’s a Jew without a Nazi? Just a liar.
There’s no bogeyman. Just a bunch of kissed off patriotic Americans ready to out your Nazi ass down just like the other leftists on the Marxist side.
Out me? Why talk like a cowardly pussy? Say what you mean?
I’ll happily kill yo in self defence.
Because you’re just a punk who can’t refute what you deny or prove what you claim. You choke when challenged.
So you make pathetic insinuations trying to silence what your bigotry won’t consider.
How’s that working for you?
Misek, YOU are the bigot. You’re a vicious antisemite. You still talk about gong after the Jews. You can be left alone if you stay under your rock, cowering. It if you want to bring about your fourth Reich it’s gong to get real fucking bad for you.
Seriously, how many people even show up to your Nazi meetings? Or do you have some outlandish plan to transplant Hitler’s brain into the body of a great white shark. Be warned, a lot of people want to save Hitler’s brain, but that would be going too far.
So keep your head down, outh shut, and maybe we will continue to piss mercy upon you.
Hitler’s brain. Hahaha. I didn’t need your help to demonstrate that you’re delusional.
How many times have you trolled my comments? You’ve never refuted anything that I’ve said and i haven’t slowed down.
The demonstration of your insanity is doing the same thing while expecting a different result.
Everything you’ve ever claimed was refuted here long ago, and in general out in the rest of the world. You’re a kook Holocaust denier. You also don’t understand humor or popular culture references.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1wJd3nZ4jI
Now fuck off and die. Suicide IS the answer for you.
You’re nothing more than a lying waste of skin jew who advocates lying.
I challenge you to post a link to anyone refuting anything I’ve said here, to prove your claim you Kol Nidre liar.
I like feeding all the lying Jewish trolls what they can’t refute and laugh when you choke.. Hahaha
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I would say what they have been shining is a bit higher up than Polis' shoes.
That's the polish.
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Polis is Polish?
This Black (don’t forget gay) man was living a lie a couple years back and posting under a name that I thought would make everyone happy. Back then, when I was in the closet and posting as a White man, this board was full of people that called me “slaver” and “mooched” every time I said that corporations should be taxed and that we shouldn’t pray to Ayn Rand God when some politician thought Amazon should be taxed at a greater rate than $0.00. Thanks to Dear Leader all those people have come around to my position that every corporation basically sucks and that any HR Director of a Fortune 500 company should be put to death over inclusivity and sensitivity training. Thank God this Black and gay man is free at last to be who hiz is— GOP Proud like Caitlin and Milo.
Brainwashing as a condition of employment is Free Speech!
Seems to be the case at Reason
You mean ‘Koch’s Reason Magazine’.
"The governor's support for Florida's social media law evinces a similar lack of principle. That 2021 law prohibits platforms like Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube from removing or limiting access to content they deem objectionable, including material produced by 'journalistic enterprises' and posts by or about political candidates."
You're such a fuckwit, Jacob. The White House tells entities like Twitter to suspend people's accounts all the time. They're not private companies. They should be bound by the First Amendment. (And if you disagree, then start petitioning the government to let AT&T disconnect your phone for using the word "tranny.")
StoneToss remains undefeated.
As I’ve predicted since the day it was released, Reason is going to completely ignore what came out of discovery in Barrington V Twitter.
Ugh, Berenson. Don’t know why spellcheck is so determined to change that.
Barrington declaration is another great example of truth vs government sponsored corporate actions. Government encouraged mandates and corporations complied, removing individual choice at the threat of job loss.
Yeah, gee, I sure hope those dastardly laws are never used by radical Marxists to subjugate anyone to the right of Chairman Mao for 20 years. That would be super bad, gee whiz.
The key is to:
1. Implement anti-left-wing laws.
2. Prevent leftists from ever gaining power again.
Remember: If Libertarian Shane Hazel hadn't fucked things up in Georgia, there wouldn't have been a runoff for the Dumbocrats and Stacey Abrams to steal.
You mean, if your favored candidate had been a better candidate, he might have won on his own.
Blaming others is not taking personal responsibility. Be a grown up.
Derpa derp durrr just run a better candidate than the one that gained 15 million votes and pulled the highest minority percentages in post-reconstruction yet somehow lost in the 11th hour after 6 states paused counting in the middle of the night and sent monitors home. Herp de derp durrrrr hurrrrrrrrrr be a grownup durr durrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Enjoy your 87,000 IRS agents, Mr. Grown-Up.
Narcissistic masturbation isn't taking personal responsibility either, but here you are.
Hazel, and his fans, is a piece of shit. They can't answer simple fucking questions about why the hell they're doing what they're doing, or how the hell their bullshit gets accomplished in reality.
The dastardly laws against compelled speech?
if anti-discrimination laws that protect people in the workplace and schools are constitutional,
those so are these laws.
you don't get to disparage people based on race, which is what woke leftists do
Jacob Sullum lies here. He doesn't have a single quote by DeSantis saying he wants to change the First Amendment.
Yes, the law violated the First Amendment. Jacob Sullum has written a lot of good articles on laws which violate the Second Amendment. Too bad he soils his own reputation every time Trump comes up, and has now expanded to DeSantis.
I submit that Jacob Sullum has found a new variant of TDS: Trump DeSantis Syndrome.
He doesn't have a single quote by DeSantis saying he wants to change the First Amendment.
Jacob Sullum
Wants ToEdit*s* Ron DeSantis' Speech To Make Him Say He Wants To Edit The First Amendment"Jacob Sullum lies"
Yes, it's his job. He has no integrity, and deserves no respect. He's given up his right to expect to be treated peacefully.
I came here to post a nearly identical comment, but you beat me to it.
Sullum wrote hundreds of missives lying about and demonizing Trump (who was the most libertarian President since Cal Coolidge), and it appears he's planning to do the same to DeSantis.
This is a great illustration of DeSantis thinking vs. Sullum thinking.
When employers impose "plainly illiberal" mandatory trainings that make life worse and less free, DeSantis works to prevent them.
Sullum reacts that "government has no business" protecting political refuseniks from firing, that the constitution makes us impotent to protect them, and closes with vague nervousness about an undefined left-wing counterattack if we dare to try.
It's not that DeSantis is "dangerously shortsighted", Sullum is more farsighted, and both are strategically seeking the goal of individual freedom. Really Sullum doesn't seem to be strategizing at all--he's just following his principles that specify when and how freedom must be handed over.
I love this idea that progs are waiting for conservatives' permission to start trampling all over their rights. They're already doing that. That's how the idea that hairy freaks can be women gained cultural currency. You know how you push back on those forces? You use the state.
Of course, libertarians don't believe in using the state. That wouldn't be a problem if they didn't spent most of their time begging the rare conservative with a backbone to surrender unilaterally. No, libertarianism has a real David French problem. It's a thoroughly nebbish ideology. Just sit back, smoke a bowl, and let the corporations that hate your guts do whatever they want.
Libertarianism, in principle, is great.
In practice it has proven to be nothing more than running cover for the progressive (statist) left.
Sullum, being the elitist's errand boy that he is, isn't so much opposed to Trump, or DeSantis is he is opposed to the people who support Trump and DeSantis.
Pretty much what conservatism has become under the same tutelage of conservatarians.
The progs declared war on Americans. So anything we do to them now is self defense based on that provocation. People talk about democracy being two wolves and a sheep voting on what will be for dinner. res a little more to it. As the sheep can choose to get a shotgun and blow both the wolf’s heads off.
Which is really the only logical response.
I love the photo of DeSantis up above. Shows clearly that he is probably an Animatronic character going through his upper body moves. Come to think of it, he always looks like that. There could be dozens of him around, looking just alike, talking just alike. Saddam had a bunch of body doubles too. In any case, I was planning a kayak trip in Florida (the 'Glades), but now I think I'll spend my Yankee dollars somewhere else.
Yeah I'm sure the state of Florida will dearly miss that welfare check you were going to totally spend on a kayak trip. If you can't groom kids in public schools and abuse your employees with illegal race-based policies then just take your ball and go back to your section 8 apartment.
Do all libertarians simp for the corporations that hate their guts, or is it just the Beltway types who think that private companies should be allowed to do whatever they want?
Yeah, I’m sure the Floridians really give a bunch of fucks that some random prog fag isn’t going to kayak in their state.
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I'm glad Reason.com took my advice and switched to an all-anti-DeSantis, all-the-time approach like the rest of the billionaire-funded #Resistance.
With #TrumpDocuments guaranteeing Drumpf will spend the 2024 election in prison, the nomination really comes down to DeSantis and Liz Cheney. And Koch-funded libertarians obviously prefer the return of the early 2000s neocon GOP represented by the Cheney family.
#LizCheney2024
Yep.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/08/23/the-koch-network-and-other-trump-allies-are-quietly-backing-his-biggest-gop-critic-rep-liz-cheney.html
From the link:
"Cheney is using some of Trump's own consultants and allies, including those from the powerful Koch network, to try to keep the former president from winning a second term in the White House. Some of them appear to have used limited liability companies that shroud their identity from the public."
This is a classic media manipulation (lie). Provide a statement that prevents the "journalist" from providing a credible source. If they are using a LLC to shroud their ID, how does this journalist know? If they actually know, why not print the name?
Few paragraphs down.
Billionaire and conservative political backer Charles Koch is helping Cheney through i360, a data and technology company owned by his conglomerate, Koch Industries, according to financial database PitchBook and Federal Election Commission filings.
Just doing George's bidding these days
Only retarded ass liberals could think that Koch was funding Trump instead of every NeverTrumper Republican they could find.
He really is a boogieman to them.
Fuckin’ A, Reason. Reality is indistinguishable from parody now, literally in this case.
Might as well have OBL write the articles here.
Who are we to support now? Captain Wingnut.com can’t seem to decide.
Desperate Alex Jones Pleads for Forgiveness From Trump After Backing DeSantis
If the IFA is "editing the 1st Amendment" than so was the Bostock ruling, and, as a SCOTUS decision, far more pernicious to our laws.
From what I recall, Reason itself actually, literally edited "Congress shall make no law" to "Congress shall protect 'Good Samaritan' Blocking and Screening of Offensive Material for the internet".
I'm not on FB, Twitter, Truth, whatever, so no, the internet is not blocked by their policies.
The public airwaves on the other hand is a limited resource under FCC control and unless I want to hear right wing screamers 24/7 and even call in, I can forget it - they screen and block callers who make the hosts look stupid.
Left-wing talk radio has been tried repeatedly. Every shot gets significant media attention.
They're just, you know, God awful. Nobody listens to them and they die.
So then, a business model is OK for radio, but not social media where you want a fairness doctrine?
Given the FCC oversees our public airwaves but not the internet, can you explain that?
there is no principled explanation beyond "it offends me, I want government to make it disappear"... the right gave up to the left and became the same thing a decade ago
Actually, making content like a radio show, and providing a communications platform for individuals to communicate with each other, are not comparable. So the premise is junk from the start.
Did you know that your telephone company can't kick you off for expressing wrongthink while talking to your Auntie, or for texting disapproved ideas?
Government is actively working with social media to censor viewpoints which based on constitutional application puts them under 1a protections.
There are dozens of examples already shown.
You are acting like radio stations refuse to air left wing talk radio. Air America had no lack of affiliates when it launched. There are just no listeners.
And given Twitter's whistleblower's complaint...Twitter's business model of excluding many conservative voices has not really boosted their business given the need to use bots heavily and lie about it to maintain the appearance of stagnant user numbers.
You’re trying to compare individual hosted radio shows with social media platforms. Those aren’t remotely the same thing.
I'm not on FB, Twitter, Truth, whatever, so no, the internet is not blocked by their policies.
I don't even have to recall Joe Friday himself literally editing "Congress shall make no law" to "Congress shall make no law about the media and platforms *I* use".
Once again, dumbass, Reason is the one who said "Section 230, the 1A of the internet...". If you've got a problem with that statement, take it up with them.
The MAGAts here - and that's most of you - love DeSantis, a true enemy of the 1st amendment who uses his and the state legislature's power - which is in his hip pocket - to punish those who disagree - literally disagree with him.
1. Several bills telling private businesses what they can say a nd what speech they must include in their businesses - the social media bill doesn't tell radio stations what content they must include, even though the nation's airwaves are a public asset under the FCC, but hey, social media better air what? Any and everything or just GOP messaging. The "don't say gay" bill tells private businesses they will be policed for not towing his line on race in America - a chilling bill, knowing the state will be on your ass if you get reported for doing so.
2. He removed a DA for SAYING SOMETHING, not doing anything. That power is intended for malfeasance, corruption, or any out of bounds behavior of officials, not because the governor disagrees with them. The voters in Tampa elected this guy twice, and he's done a good job including solving a 35 year old rape and murder case recently.
3. The Disney CEO publicly SAID SOMETHING critical of a DeSantis bill passed by the state, and they rushed through a punitive bill aimed at Disney. This is outrageous enough but even worse when it was so rushed and without forethought and of such possible impact on the region and neighboring counties that in a legal brief a day ago, his team said it might not actually take affect, as in "we were only kidding". The bill takes away Disney's self governing Special District status, the same status the GOP favorite speech location The Villages is run under. They passed this without hearings, expert witnesses, or public input and have no fucking idea what it means for Disney and neighboring counties.
No wonder MAGAts love this guy, but real libertarians? No, not possible.
"The "don't say gay" bill tells private businesses they will be policed for not towing his line on race in America"
Literally no such thing as a "Don't Say Gay" bill. Does not and has not existed. There is a bill dealing with parental rights in education which does limit what government entities (you know, schools) can discuss with kids without parental consent. Not the same thing.
"He removed a DA for SAYING SOMETHING, not doing anything."
The DA said "I will not do my job", which makes keeping him untenable.
"The voters in Tampa elected this guy twice, and he's done a good job including solving a 35 year old rape and murder case recently."
DA's do not solve crimes. Ever. Just as a heads up.
"The bill takes away Disney's self governing Special District status, the same status the GOP favorite speech location The Villages is run under. They passed this without hearings, expert witnesses, or public input and have no fucking idea what it means for Disney and neighboring counties."
No change for residents. Disney will be charged taxes to cover expenses. Sorry if you're too dim to understand.
damiksec -
1. You win on semantics - I expect you to correct anyone saying Democrat Party.
2. There was no cases before DA and there is no Florida law about transgender surgery, and the Fl Abortion law is in the courts, challenged because Florida has a right to privacy in it's constitution. It was about the DA saying something about prosecutorial discretion, not anything he did.
3. Prosecutors do work together with cops on cases and decide often which ones to focus on and Warren created the office that discovered the facts on this cold case . Someone close to me has been one for 25 years and tells me about his cases. That's a fact.
"In 2018, Warren’s office created a Conviction Review Unit to help overturn and prevent wrongful convictions. Two years later, Robert DuBoise, who spent 37 years in prison for Grams’ rape and murder, was exonerated.
“Our investigation found DNA evidence that established Robert did not murder Barbara Grams; however, that DNA evidence did provide new leads and launched a fresh investigation,” Warren said.
The DNA sample that did not contain material from DuBoise was run through a national database containing DNA samples of convicted felons and led investigators to Scott and Robinson, who were already serving life sentences in a Florida prison for a murder they committed in Pinellas County in October of 1983, Warren said.
With that information, investigators were able to build a case for Grams’ murder and open a cold case investigation into Lansen’s murder.
At the time of DuBoise’s trial, there wasn’t any physical or circumstantial evidence connecting DuBoise to the attack, according to The Florida Innocence Project.
Before his conviction, he was transported to Hillsborough County Jail. A jailhouse informant who spoke with DuBoise later testified falsely that DuBoise had confessed to the crime during his jail stay, The Florida Innocence Project said.
“I am sad for the families who have waited so long to get true closure,” DuBoise told CNN Friday. “I spent 37 years imprisoned for a crime I was totally innocent. This is what happens when the police focus on the wrong person, make up evidence to fit their theory and don’t investigate to find the truth. Lives are ruined and communities are less safe.”
https://tampa.cbslocal.com/2022/08/06/dna-links-two-men-in-prison-to-cold-case-from-1983/
A lot of words to admit you are wrong.
1. You were wrong
2. He twice said he wouldn't do his job, it doesn't require him not actively doing his job.
3. The DA is not an investigatory force. He didnt do the investigation.
"1. You win on semantics - I expect you to correct anyone saying Democrat Party."
Semantics is not a synonym for accuracy. I was accurate. You lied.
"2. There was no cases before DA and there is no Florida law about transgender surgery, and the Fl Abortion law is in the courts, challenged because Florida has a right to privacy in it's constitution. It was about the DA saying something about prosecutorial discretion, not anything he did."
FL Dept of Health has issued guidance against it and has barred Medicaid funds from being used for it. So, there are definitely rules. And saying, upfront, "I will not obey the law" is simple refusal to execute one's duties which leads to termination in any known line of work.
"3. Prosecutors do work together with cops on cases and decide often which ones to focus on and Warren created the office that discovered the facts on this cold case "
That is not solving anything. DA did jack shit in the investigation.
He wins. Period. You lose. You always lose.
PS You don't know what you are talking regarding Disney and no one else does either, including DeSantis. That's why his lawyers just told the judge that it may never happen. Nice try pretending you know something you don't.
Joe, any time you are accurate is purely accidental. Nobody buys a word you write.
He really is the epitome of the idiot prog voter.
You manage to showcase both ignorance and stupidity on a regular basis, exalting both while diminishing neither. This case is no different.
FREE SPEECH how about calling a fagot a fagot?--- calling someone a queer? --or a black person a Niger? that's free speech being restricted-- screaming fire in a theater is free speech that is controlled -- no one has to put up with other people free speech if it offends them-- look at all of the lies being told me by the socialist party in power!
my only recourse is in the next election
the constitution gave me the right to bear arms, but look at all of the restrictions put on it by POLITICIANS over the years
free speech? -- is no longer free speech
"free speech? "
Shouting 'theater' at a crowded fire.
I believe the simple solution to end this will be for every sensible person who is forced by a business to attend one of these woke classes is to simply tell HR that they are filing a hostile workplace complaint. And then follow up with it. Let the litigation begin.
CB
Sure Crackers, that's the intent and how businesses will stifle their rights to keep from getting the state on their ass. Anyone offering any diversity training at all in Florida after this is crazy. You may think that's good, but how is it your business - or DeSantis's - what Acme Produce Storage chooses to say to employees as long as they don't violate their rights? What if they have a Patriotism class?
So you’re saying corporations are people?
Anyone offering any diversity training at all in Florida after this is crazy.
Anyone offering diversity training anywhere should have to first explain how diversity qua skin color makes any more sense to the job than diversity of hair color or eye color. Diversity training is a great indicator of waste, nothing more.
Indeed.
That's the point, Acme Produce Storage can put on whatever diversity training it wants, it just can't require employees to attend.
Getting rid of diversity training is a huge plus.
^
DeSantis and the ACLU both oppose the 1st.
End times?
https://reason.com/2022/08/22/aclu-abandons-first-amendment-in-colorado-gay-wedding-web-hosting-case/
"while others are ambiguous or debatable (e.g., the notion that "members of one race, color, sex, or national origin cannot and should not attempt to treat others without respect to race, color, sex, or national origin")."
I have to say, Sullum thinking this notion is ambiguous or debatable, (In more than a trivial sense for that latter; EVERYTHING is capable of being "debated", even if only monsters or morons would take one side of the debate in some cases.) rather than also being plainly illiberal, has made me think less of him. And I didn't really think that was possible at this point.
even if only monsters or morons would take one side of the debate in some cases
The whole point of debate is to discuss issues with people who are not monsters to save killing vast amounts of innocent bystanders in the wholesale slaughter of monsters. Somebody telling you to take a step back from the abyss isn't intrinsically acting in the abyss' best interests. Nietzsche or some shit, look it up.
Interesting question whether someone who rhetorically slaughters Nietzsche in order to continue staring into the abyss is a monster or not, though.
I agree that it was debatable whether ""members of one race, color, sex, or national origin cannot and should not attempt to treat others without respect to race, color, sex, or national origin"; What I find somewhat amazing, and not in a good way, is that Sullum would dispute that the proposition is "illiberal".
De Santis should just do a “money isn’t speech” play here.
it's coming!
Phrasing!
And this is yet another article where a Reason writer engages in an indirect passive-aggressive defense of CRT and CRT adjacent philosophies.
What IFA essentially does is say: you cannot "train" your employees that one race is morally inferior to another. Even if whites are targeted as the morally inferior race and the program is deemed "progressive". It is rather hard to see how a training program that would describe blacks as inferior and promote workplace policies based on that assertion would not be deemed illegal under all the other existing federal and state civil rights law. Why the IFA is beyond the pale for Reason is bizarre.
Invitation for the state to police businesses and employees to bring heat. Let's cut to the chase - what type speech and classes by employers do you and DeSantis approve of?
The state has already given itself those powers in previous civil rights and antidiscrimination laws. Why should these racist, so-called "progressive" training programs be excepted?
Another example of the left promoting corporate fascism.
you ever work for a corp that forces the woke ideology on it's employees? i have and it is horrible and toxic. if you oppose the ideology you get fired. if you're in management you not only have to agree with it but push it onto your employees. protecting employees from this marxist, anti-american ideology is a good thing. as an employee i should not be subject to this abuse.
None..you come to work to do a job, not discuss politics or be upset if you don't feel like the culture is one you are "included" into...all this DIE stuff at work makes no sense. I had no idea most folks I worked with politics for decades and the company didn't talk about who to vote for or social justice bullshit.
Nothing wrong with this law...we need to root cultural marxism out of the workplace (and the federal govt, and schools and the media and Reason).
Florida’s governor claims unconstitutional powers
Sadly in DeRp speak, that means he is qualified now to be Prez
Why is it that "anti-racists" are so good at understanding dog whistles, and "intellectual progressives" (an oxymoron if there ever was) are so good at understanding derp?
WTF? Why does Reason continue to attack Ron de Santis for standing up to the intolerant Left? Contemporary Libertarianism is nothing but a wing of the Leftist Democrat Party.
Because he stands up to the intolerant marxist left and that constitutes the entirety of their social circle and personal beliefs.
Virtue signaling? Nick and the Gang do like invites to the beltway cocktail party circuit.
Republican politician violates own, stated principles to exploit popular rage for votes and unwittingly legitimizes the left employing the same use of state power to silence what offends them?
shocker
Is anyone else have the feeling that Reason is essentially for corporate fascism at this point? They would be at least consistent if they argued against the Civil Rights Act, title VII, Bostock and other limits on freedom of association in regards to business. But the only things they are against are actions to protect individual ideology against threats of employment. They protect forced medical advice and vaccine mandates, for protections for LGBT in hiring (including reinterpretation of laws under Bostock) and censorship at the behest of government.
At this point reasons inconsistency belies the fact they enjoy directed individual abuses from corporations working with government for ideals of the left and those the editors here agree with.
Corporations are capital entities, not moral arbitrators. They are not intended to force viewpoints on people interacting or working with them. They are essentially acting as extensions of government agents to enforce ideologies. At the expense of individual thought. A worker selling clothes should not be forced to admit white guilt or culpability which is what these trainings do. ESG is a form of social indoctrination of the likes of Mao and the SS. It is not something to be defended. The use of economic warfare to enforce an ideology.
Sullum is not pro individual thought.
social indoctrination like Mao and the SS but without, like, the whole state-sanctioned killing people thing
The killing people was the least effective means post revolution. It required cultural changes through set indoctrination and long term harm such as state controlled economies. Even China has largely retreated from mass state killings preferring economic control. They still have confinement as well, but have retreated from the outright killings. Venezuela realized the same as every political shooting ended in global outrage while merely locking up opponents or disallowing them from the political realm was basically ignored.
Authoritarianism evolves to the most effective methods. Indoctrination of children against their family and religious structures and threat of economic harm.
I will also point out the current risk of continued food shortages against the ESG policies currently happening in multiple countries.
hmm.. so the state mandating what forms of speech corporations can engage in is your cure for the state mandating what forms of speech corporations can engage in?
well I'll be damned, 33 years a libertarian and I obviously never knew shit!
The company is free to shout woke nonsense from the rooftops, but not to engage in discrimination against their employees, regardless of skin color.
That's what you call "mandating forms of speech corporations can engage in." Sit down, the grownups are talking.
Their argument seems to be that if I create a giant bulletin board and let the public post whatever they want to it, I’m perfectly within my rights to remove whatever posts I don’t like AND I shouldn’t be held liable for leaving other posts on the board, even if the posts I leave up are illegal or violate the TOS.
That seems stupid.
So you have the reading comprehension of a child?
I was going to say similar, without the whole state-sanctioned killing people thing, at least on this side of either pond anyway.
The juxtaposition of this article by Sullum with Tucille's article today on cancel culture is fascinating.
well the guy defended "Cuties"...an indefensible movie. It is a cultural thing with Sullum...he has a different view of "culture" including liberty and morality than most Americans. The end result of his argument often is degeneracy through cultural marxism. I had to deal with this type often in NYC...they seem to grow in numbers there.
There are many things wrong with that Florida law but this article does a remarkably poor job of finding them.
For one thing, yes a single "required activity" can count as "severe or pervasive". The hostile workplace standard is generally used when looking for unofficial policies where a pattern of repeated behavior is necessary to prove that it's actually the workplace that's hostile rather than a single unpleasant coworker having a bad day. But when the act is an affirmative decision by the employer's HR department and imposed on the employees as a "required" condition of employment, there is no need to assume anything - that is unambiguously attributable to the workplace.
Yes. The judge seems to believe that the law is redundant in terms of the actions of an employer because a civil remedy is available under the hostile work environment statutes. But he's hair splitting that this legislation bans only speech. It will be interesting to see how the appellate court interprets it.
The culture wars need to end. They were never a good idea in the first place, but the longer they drag on, the more destruction they do to the concept of liberty. Somewhere along the way, a whole lot of people forgot that politics is supposed to be the fine art of learning to live alongside other people.
yep
Indoctrinatioj is the goal as it is the only way leftist works. There is a reason communist societies turned children against parents through schooling to destroy moral teachings outside of communist control. It is the primary motivation here. To do it in public schools and now at threat of economic disassociation for individual thoughts, largely through HR departments and ESG/DEI measures. The only way their beliefs work is to instill fear of societal and economic harm for believing differently.
government can cure that! by decreeing what corporations can believe!
Youre one of those simpleton non thinking libertarians who think government is the only nexus of power aren't you?
"Just submit to the totalitarian left, fighting back is totes icky"
Social progressivism is the aggressor in the culture wars, and it shows no sign of letting up.
Social progressives should be crushed, and decisively. We are at war.
Someone should have told those dang Poles that WWII needed to end. Problem solved!
This crap started with the millions of socialists, communists, and bolshies immigrating from where this was ideology was a religion (central and eastern europe), decades of infiltrating academia, media, creating NGO grifters, govt and now HR departments. Sorry to say bolshies are a threat to our liberty and need to be fought at every opportunity. Removing social justice from work is a good start.
Lots of arguments from consequences here - you agree with DeSantis because you much preferred good old style 50s racism and sexual harassment, and 1A be damned. It is bleeding obvious that the anti-woke act is unconstitutional - so obvious that it's impossible DeSantis didn't know it was, ab initio. Passing this act was, as they say, performative.
Terrible summation shrike.
Fuck off, peasant.
Eat shit and die, asshole.
Figured you would be busy jacking it to child porn or raping some kid.
It is no more and no less "unconstitutional" than all the other speech restrictions that businesses must operate under.
To the contrary: if the speech restrictions DeSantis wants to impose don't stand, then neither do the speech restrictions that prohibit racism and sexual harassment in the workplace.
As usual, people like you, SRG, are promoting racism and sexual harassment.
So, SRG, according to you, a business should be free to instruct its employees in whatever it wants? That would mean that one business could force their employees to attend CRT training, another business could force their employees to attend neo-Nazi training, and yet another one could force their employees to attend female strip shows. That's the hill you want to die on?
DeSantis can restrict CRT training in the workplace with exactly the same justification he can restrict neo-Nazi indoctrination in the workplace: both are offensive, racist ideologies that have no place in the workplace. You either prohibit neither, or you prohibit both.
Hey buddy..worked in corporate since the late 80's and never saw any racism or sexual harassment. When I heard someone complain it was taken seriously by HR and often the responsible person was fired. This stuff is different, it is political indoctrination. Social Justice and Cultural Marxism has no place in a workplace. Get it out...get it all out.
it was shameless pandering for votes, I'd be offended at being so exploited by a politician who knew he was gonna get nowhere were I a conservative Floridian
The First Amendment begins with “CONGRESS shall make no law…” It should be obvious that that the First Amendment should only apply to federal actions.
yep! California making churches illegal (or better yet, taxing them into non-existence) is a-ok constitutionally!
gee it's like Team Right and Team Left don't even try to pretend to not be the same thing anymore.. gotta win that never-won, unwinnable culture war, don'tcha know!
Up until the passage of the Fourteenth Amendment, that was the general interpretation.
However, the 14th (enacted in 1868) says, in part, that "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States".
Assuming, as pretty much every court since has, that the rights articulated in the First Amendment count as some of the "privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States", then the passage of the 14th 'incorporated' the protections of the 1st against the states and it was no longer limited to federal actions.
The 14A was passed in 1868. The 1A wasn't fully incorporated until 1963 by SCOTUS. So the idea that "pretty much every court since" has treated the 1A as incorporated is wrong.
The 14A was arguably not intended as incorporating the Bill of Rights in the way SCOTUS did it. That was an overreach that started during the progressive era.
And since incorporation is not explicitly in the Constitution, SCOTUS could reverse itself on at least parts of it.
Mandatory training is "discussion"?
The straws being grasped at here at currently unavailable.
Where questioning the training's premises is denigrated as "white fragility".
Right. Nothing to see here, move along.
What DeSantis and quite a few people on the right don't understand, is that the power over speech that they grab for themselves will one day be used by the other side against them
Why does DeSantis think Democrats will never re-gain the reins of power in Florida? Or the United States (yeah, crazy to think Democrats would ever control both the White House and Congress)? So much short-sightedness.
you speak thought.. Trumptard "libertarians" speak emotion
You are full of shit.
That sword cuts both ways: team Citizens United Must Be Overturned is shocked that the other team also have reasons to believe that corporations aren’t people and that money isn’t speech.
The power to prevent odious compelled speech? Im sure all the righties are OK with that
Oh look, a wild non sequitur appeared.
Government power over speech has been used by the left against conservatives for decades.
People like DeSantis are finally waking up and fighting back by using the same weapons conservatives have been attacked with.
I see DSTS* is starting to rear its ugly head here.
*DeSantis Derangement Syndrome.
Sincere question: has this site been bought or infiltrated by Soros? Has it always been a left-wing rag hiding in plain sight? I mean most of the takes I've seen on here lately could have been ripped right off the front page of the Daily Kos or Mother Jones et. al.....
Same TDS, DeSantis variant.
I BET THAT WILL KILL AT BINGO NIGHT
So white children have no equal protection interest here? Really???
Reason is a sad joke.
Just here to watch the freedom people lick the MAGA boot.
Nothing about any of your beliefs are brave or revolutionary. Your idea of freedom is yelling at gays to get off your lawn.
You already lost, we're just waiting for you to die of old age.
Libertarians are dickless losers is a steaming pile of lefty shit.
any company is free to offer whatever trading programs it wants. They are simply prohibited from forcing employees to attend programs covering political/social topics outside of the business functions.
A business can preach whatever social justice message it wants, they just can't make employees sit through the sermon
Why not? Why shouldn't a business be able to require attendance at some ideological, religious, or political event a condition of employment?
I see the moronic authoritarian MAGAts are upset DeSantis's attacks on the First Amendment are being called out by Reason.
What attack?
If a corporation made it a condition of employment that the female employees parade around in their bras once a quarter, what would ending that be an attack on?
I see the TDS-addled shitpiles are out in force.
the Powerful abuse power. film @11.
The US Constitution's First Amendment was never intended to apply to the States (that makes the unelected oligarchy known as the federal judiciary the arbiter of state government). It was only intended to apply to the federal government. State constitutions have their own "first amendments" and free speech protections.
See above. That was true until the passage of the 14th Amendment. It has not been true since.
The 14th Amendment did not automatically incorporate the Bill of Rights; that required additional reasoning and analysis by SCOTUS.
Correct. Then the 14th amendment was passed in 1866 and the bill of rights including the first amendment did apply. I'm not taking a side either way, just noting that all of the amendments in the constitution of the united states since that time were intended to apply to all individuals in the US. We all know what they say about good intentions. If Americans want to avoid more and more interventions in their lives to "help" them, they should vote libertarian.
Jacob Sullum can't see the forest because of all the trees. While we are under attack by the far leftist woke crowd he complains about the purity of DeSantis.
Yes, we do need to be careful of authoritarians of all stripes. We currently however are under more threat by the far leftist woke crowd than the right.
Stop promoting the by the far leftist woke crowd by attacking the lesser threat.
Isn't it convenient how so many of the reason writers have woken up to the dangers of voting the lesser of two evils after so many of them helped elect Biden. Weird.
Sullum is vastly more unhappy about restricting the promotion of the most anti-libertarian ideas in the world than he is about all of the freedom of association restrictions that the Left has already entrenched.
The IFA expanded Florida's definition of "unlawful employment practices" to include "any required activity" that promotes one or more of eight forbidden concepts.
Every manner of government intrusion into business practices is totally countenanced except for apparently this one.
The government prints trillions of dollars to give to BlackRock to buy corporate stocks and bonds to juice the market. BlackRock imposes on corporations all manner of the most insane woke bullshit, ESG, DEI, and woke employee indoctrination/training like this.
In my business, could I force my employees to take training "linking moral status to race" if that training teaches that whites are morally superior to blacks?
you know the answer to this.
Thank you Reason for focusing on authoritarian right-wingers like DeSantis. For some odd reason, there is a subset of Libertarians who seem to think of Republicans as a second choice, and it's important for the rest of us to keep pointing out that Republicans are just as authoritarian as the Democrats when given half a chance. The R's still want to take our tax money, run our lives, and tell businesses what they can or can not do. It is our job as Libertarians to remind everyone that Ron DeSantis and Charlie Crist are two sides of the same coin. Articles like this are a great help in that effort.
I can't tell whether you are merely stupid, or whether you are paid for by China or the DNC. I suppose it really doesn't make a difference.
Either way, they need to be swept aside.
The government already does that. For example, "creating a hostile work environment" by saying things that offend women, minorities or transgenders, has severe consequences for any business. There are plenty of other speech restrictions on private businesses.
I would call you a "useful idiot" for not recognizing that, but you are no idiot: you are simply a progressive masquerading as a libertarian.
It astounds me constantly how many progressives in America use the rhetoric of individual liberty without realizing the contradictions of their preferred policy to their stated goals.
"When he signed the Individual Freedom Act (IFA) last April, DeSantis bragged that it would 'prevent discriminatory instruction in the workplace,' striking a blow against 'the far-left woke agenda.' But as a federal judge explained last week, the law's restrictions on employee training blatantly violate the First Amendment."
Fair point, but not doing it violates the Civil Rights Act.
All right. DeSantis teaches that "speech creates" and makes other people feel funny. Now back to work.
So many ways this article misses the point. Where do I start?
First, there has been established an association between Biden's WH and the progressive social media. Censorship by the media, at the behest of the federal government, IS a first amendment violation.
Would anyone be satisfied to find out that it wasn't Hitler's Nazi party that was indoctrinating the students in school? It was the Hitler's Youth program, which, for the sake of laughs, we'll say was a private entity, not directly associated with the Nazi party. That being the case, it is entirely acceptable that Hitler's Youth was indoctrinating students to rat out their own parents, if they spoke against Hitler. And of course, the weaker minds among them hated the Jews, on cue, just as the weaker minds of today's students in "progressive" schools hate Trump and his supporters on cue. But it's all OK, because it isn't coming straight from the government. Yeah, right.
Years ago, southern Dixiecrats claimed that their "sperate but equal" policies between Whites and blacks was not segregation, therefore legal. It took a lot of imagination for the Dixiecrats to think they could make that work, but it bought them some time, until the courts ruled that "separate but equal" was "de facto" segregation.
So, we have Reason and a plethora of other wordsmiths claiming that it's all about the words. No, it's all about the meanings. "Migrants" are still illegal aliens, just as they have been for decades. There are still two genders, no matter what idiotic imaginings some progressive nimwit comes up with. And progressives routinely violate the first amendment, both in publicly funded GOVERNEMT schools, and in social media that are the "de facto" agent of the democratic party.
There has always been a connection between the government, schools and media. This is more obvious today because there are so many more outlets for ideas than there were 50 or 100 years ago.
The FCC took away licenses from individuals who said the wrong thing. Movies were controlled by the Hayes office, one of the supposedly independent censorship organizations that always acted for the government in power at the time. The Comstock Laws severely restricted what could be sent through the mails.
Government censorship through supposedly "independent" organizations has always been the case, it's just that now it is appalling obvious.
Start by abolishing public education. Then neither DeSantis nor the wokies can propagandize your children. At least, withdraw your kids from state indoctrination by home schooling.
So this is a rehash of an article that appeared here a week ago. It makes the same arguments and reaches the same conclusions (I don't actually read Sullum but I know what his conclusions will be) . Some of us have joked about the daily Florida Man Bad articles. It's becoming increasingly evident that there is a bona fide quota at work here. If he hasn't done anything horrible today just offer up a rerun.
Dear Jonah: I feel bad for you, I really do. Either you were born pissed off or you've been used and abused multiple times. If the latter, who is it that's hurt you so? Could I buy you a beer maybe, to help smooth things out for you? You might not have to go through life seeing or hearing things that aren't really there. That can be scary sometimes, I know, but I also know that you can ditch all that stuff and move on. Millions have, Johah.
"employee training"?? Cute...
If you work here you need to learn to be a racist, sexist Democrat...
Where's the job at? The DNC?
Sullum is absolutely right though; The Left will take this dictation initiation and multiply it by 10.. Stick to the Principles....
Its corporations acting in unison to exclude folks form the market.
Like when FB, Twitter, Instgram and You Tube simultaneously ban someone for questioning vaccines.
That's called a "trust" and we have anti-trust laws.
It's called a trust because they trust the science.
/sarc
This judge (who *happens* to have been appointed by Obama) at least acknowledges the situation - there's a judicial interpretation of the Civil Rights Act which supposedly stops corporations from doing lots of the stuff this bill forbids.
But this bill singles out speech! Yes, speech which the courts themselves thought suspect long before DeSantis was governor.
But it has to be "severe and pervasive" - and this bill just applies to H. R. departments imposing mandatory racist training - totally different.
Slicing the salami pretty thin, there.
Bingo. CRT training constitutes hostile environment harassment.
A problem with DeSantis is that he chose revenge over liberty. But that's not THE problem. THE problem is public education which should not exist. It necessarily entwines ideas and force, the forceful collection of both funding and students. For the same reason that there is a separation of church and state, there needs to be a separation of education and state.
I wonder how long it will take for those who are so gleeful that Roe was overturned to realize that they not only turned fetuses over to the state, but they turned their children over to the state as well. They should read how "substantive due process" was used to stop the forced education of children by the state by "creating" a right that was not in the Constitution. "Pierce v Society of Sisters". There is no Constitutional right to educate your children in the way you believe is correct. There is not even a Constitutional right to keep your children.
Alito's bald faced lie that the overturning of Roe would affect nothing else contradicted his own dissent in the gay marriage case.
Now the right and the left will be locked in caged battle to the death over who will control your children.
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