American Revolution Images Might Reveal You as a 'Violent Extremist,' Says the FBI
Instead, the feds are telling us something very revealing about themselves.
When the FBI puts out a bulletin on symbols "used by Anti-Government or Anti-Authority Violent Extremists," and it looks like a catalog of T-shirts half the country might want to wear, it's a strong indication that the feds are way off-base. It gets even sillier when part of the bulletin resembles a brochure for a Revolutionary War museum. Then again, George Washington and the Continental Army were, arguably, "Anti-Government or Anti-Authority Violent Extremists," which is a reminder that governments aren't necessarily the good guys.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation Domestic Terrorism Symbols Guide hit the news August 2 when it was shared by sources, including Mississippi attorney Steven Stamboulieh, who posted the bulletin on Twitter. He told me he got it from the FBI and that he followed up with a query for more information.
Good luck to him. My own email to the FBI Counterterrorism Division bounced back because I "don't have permission to send to it." Inquiries to other FBI sources received a polite brush-off and then silence. Maybe I'm wrong, but the feds seem unhappy this bulletin is in the wild, and with good reason.
The first section of the document includes a modified version of the American flag with an igloo in the canton representing the ideologically diverse "Boogaloo" movement. Characterized in 2020 by Reason's Zach Weissmuller as "Gen Z Second Amendment activism," the movement has faded from public view, but is apparently still on the minds of feds. Also featured is the black-and-gold flag of anarcho-capitalism representing, as the FBI notes, those "advocating the State be eliminated or minimized and that public services be provided by provided by private companies competing in a free market." Then there's the Punisher skull popularized by the vigilante of comic books, movies, and TV and, ironically, embraced by law enforcement (maybe a fed scanned his own tattoo for the image). Also included are a "warrior culture" hoplite helmet and an electrical resistance symbol, implying that electrical engineers and fans of the movie 300 about the Battle of Thermopylae are a sketchy bunch.
Also highlighted is the flag flown at the Battle of Gonzales during the Texas Revolution, with a cannon and the words "Come and Take It" on a white field. That phrase is a translation of the classical Greek "molon labe," now a Second Amendment rallying cry originally recorded as Spartan King Leonidas's response when ordered by the Persians to lay down his weapons at Thermopylae.
This is quite the grab bag of anti-authoritarian images popular with individualists, history buffs, and at least a few cops. Most of them can be found for sale on T-shirts and bumper stickers. The FBI seems to understand that it's throwing a pretty wide net with a collection of political symbols and the logo of a popular entertainment franchise. The bulletin notes that "the use or sharing of these symbols alone should not independently be considered evidence of [Militia Violent Extremism] presence or affiliation or serve as an indicator of illegal activity… ." But despite this disclaimer the document gets even worse.
"Historical American symbols, representing gun rights and limited government," the bulletin helpfully annotates next to an image of the famous revolutionary-era Gadsden "don't tread on me" flag in the "commonly referenced historical imagery or quotes" section. Also in the rogues' gallery are the Liberty Tree, the Betsy Ross flag, and generic "Revolutionary War imagery."
Really? Even with a lame disclaimer attached that not every "don't tread on me" enthusiast is dangerous, what use is served by associating imagery and ideas from the founding of the country with "Militia Violent Extremism" (MVE)? Unless, that is, the FBI is trying to tell us it's not comfortable with that whole liberty and Bill of Rights thing which, to be honest, is entirely believable. Be on the lookout for feds snooping around Boston's Freedom Trail and the Valley Forge museum.
Page two (yes, that was all on the first page) lists quotes, events that anger many people (Waco and Ruby Ridge), and names a few organizations that were not affiliated with the Continental Congress. Among these are Three Percenters and Oath Keepers, some of whose members were indicted for actions related to the January 6 Capitol riot, including troublingly political "seditious conspiracy" charges. Then the feds step in it again.
"Mainstream militia, nationwide, mostly online activity, low history of violence," the FBI notes of American Contingency, one organization mentioned. So, the feds are scrutinizing internet debating societies? OK, the feds are scrutinizing debating societies again. The FBI has an unpleasant history of targeting critics of government for doing no more than saying harsh things about the powers-that-be.
"The FBI … has placed more emphasis on domestic dissent than on organized crime and, according to some, let its efforts against foreign spies suffer because of the amount of time spent checking up on American protest groups," the Senate's Church Committee complained in 1976.
Things haven't really changed, except for a growing fixation on the Gadsden flag. In 2016, after LaVoy Finicum was killed during a standoff with authorities over the Malheur Wildlife Refuge in Oregon, a federally funded intelligence-sharing "fusion center" issued a heads-up to police to look out for protesters even though "no credible threats to law enforcement are present at this time."
"The report includes several 'visual indicators' to help police determine whether they're dealing with 'extremist and disaffected individuals,'" Reason's Jesse Walker wrote. "These range from images associated with specific political groups, such as the Oath Keepers and Three Percenters, to a more generic patriotic symbol, the Gadsden flag. … One of the 'indicators' is a slightly altered version of a picture popular with fans of the Grateful Dead."
"There was no intent to offend or single out individuals and groups who use these symbols for historical or legitimate purposes," the fusion center apologized after a wave of pushback. "We will attempt to articulate those distinctions clearer in the future."
Apparently, articulating those distinctions involves rolling in the Punisher logo and the Betsy Ross flag.
True, the U.S. is suffering a wave of political violence from across the political spectrum. But instead of cooling tensions, government officials seem to see legitimate fears of riots or terrorism as opportunities to conflate those who actually intend harm with peaceful critics of government and authority. They throw a few bad actors in with people who don't like being bossed around and try to smear everybody with guilt by association. They've taken this so far as to present symbols of this country's founding as potential threats.
When the FBI tells you that fans of images and ideas associated with the American Revolution are the bad guys, take them at their word. The feds are telling us something very revealing about themselves.
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FBI delenda est.
Word.
Lots of salt.
The FDA first, please. They kill more people than the FBI. Way more.
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/donald-trump-says-mar-lago-raided-under-siege-fbi
How about after this raid by the KGB on president Trumps home?
Hang your flag upside down tomorrow until this Biden administration is ousted
Of course the FBI has zero issue with actual anarchists that set up CHOPs or burn down federal courthouses. Those are just mostly peaceful protesters exercising their first amendment rights.
I have to admit. The people who aren’t listed is more revealing than the people who are. I could at least accept an FBI that was paranoid or ridiculously thorough about any possible threat.
However, the absence of notable left wing groups that have been involved in political violence chills any question that this has now become a political hit list
At the least, Antifa should be on that list. These groups are literally agent provocateurs.
And if the logic of including the Gadsden Flag is applied equally, then the BLM flag and symbology should also be considered suspect.
Pretty much it should just be a list of flags. I’d be willing to bet large sums of money that Rainbow Pride flags turn up in the hands, attached to the lapels, or attached to the backpacks of Antifa, BLM, and general criminally delinquent-types *far* more frequently that the Betsy Ross flag.
“When fascism comes to America, it will not be in brown and black shirts. It will not be with jack-boots. It will be Nike sneakers and Smiley shirts…”
― George Carlin
It will be the progressives in your culture doing it just like the progressives did it in Germany. Just ignore how largely the Republican party represents a progressive ideology just as much as the democrat party, and it’s easy to manufacture discontent. After all, the communists and fascists were notorious for most vociferously hating each other over small progressive differences.
California über alles is real.
I heard that antifa is just an idea! How dare you push your systemic racism! I can’t believe you want the fbi to consider black lives matter equally with other groups, don’t you know the way to fight past racism is with current racism? Sheesh next you’ll want people to think about skin color like hair color. I bet you’re one of those nasty individualists! The smallest minority isn’t the individual, it’s whatever small group I can leverage for personal gain! Now call me by my pronouns or lose your job!
/Sarc (only because the left broke poes law so it’s impossible to tell)
Antifa and BLM are only threats to business owners and other such working/middle class peasants, who aren’t organized (and dependent) enough to be a reliable voting block, and aren’t rich enough to pay adequate bribes… er… campaign contributions for preferential treatment. Therefore, their suffering is irrelevant to the Praetorian Guard.
Right-wing protestors, especially rowdy ones like some of the ones in DC on January 6, make the NOBILITY feel nervous, so they are clearly more of a priority for the F.B.I.
Antifa is the armed wing of the Democratic Party. It is a modern SA. Having a group of violent thugs that terrorize your political enemies and police who will only arrest your enemies when they fight back is straight out of the fascist playbook. The Democrats call everyone else fascist because projection is what they do.
‘Antifa is the armed wing of the Democratic Party. It is a modern SA.”
The Klu Klux Klan was the armed wing of the Democratic Party from its inception to the sixties.
Has any other American Political party run militias that take direct party orders? Not just a loose or perceived association? The Know Nothings? The Whigs?
I never heard of the Whigs getting involved in anything besides what we’d call “white collar crime” these days, and I believe the Know-Nothings limited themselves to a bit of vandalism.
-jcr
Quantrill’s Raiders and other such pro-slavery groups in Kansas before the Civil War. There were also several White militias in the South during Reconstruction which took their orders from Democratic politicians. Some with several hundred to a thousand members.
The KKK is still a key part of the Democrat Party, they just twisted words around to hide their doctrine.
1930: Blacks aren’t smart like white people, and need to be told what to do.
2022: Black people aren’t smart like white people, and need white people to tell them when to be offended.
1930: Blacks aren’t smart enough to pass reading tests to vote.
2022: Black people aren’t smart enough to get ID to vote.
a group of violent thugs that terrorize your political enemies
The FBI or the IRS?
Yes
People complaining about “politization” of the FBI are ignorant of history. The FBI has been highly political going all the way back to it’s inception with director J. Edgar Hoover.
Maybe they’re not ignorant of history.
It was wrong then, AND it’s wrong now. It should be called out, now, and in the future, so everyone knows.
I disagree. The term “politization” rather than simply saying the FBI is political necessarily implies a recent, incomplete, and on-going change.
There is no change, this is the way the FBI has always been.
There’s absolutely been a fucking change, at least in degree.
Get up off your damn knees.
The top ten domestic terrorist groups in the U.S., as classified by the FBI, in no particular order are:
1. May 19th Communist Organization – Far Left
2. Black Liberation Army – Far Left
3. Earth Liberation Front – Far Left
4. Black Panthers – Far Left
5. Weather Underground – Far Left
6. Aryan Nation – Far Right
7. Imperial Klans of America – Far Right
8. Phineas Priesthood – Far Right
9. Army of God – Far Right
10. Aryan Republic Army – Far Right
Antifa is also on the list and has been classified by the DHS and the FBI as “organization with ties to domestic terrorism.”
I’m no fan of government surveillance, but I’m even less of a fan of lying to confirm one’s own biases.
Cite?
Because without a citation, you might be lying to confirm your own both-sideist biases.
The fact that he considers national socialists to be far right tells you plenty.
And black panthers are ethnic nationalist constitutionalists bordering on sov cit. they are also sympathetic to communism. I don’t think far left or right make sense for them. Extremists, sure, but if they were white guys with the same tenets, they’d be called far right.
Is this up-to-date?
It looks antiquated.
The klan, for instance. There might be 5000-8000 clan members worldwide. Total. And pretty much everyone hates them.
It looks like a great list from 15 or 20 years ago.
More like a list from the 1970’s.
Here in the states, the total is probably around 50 and half of that are FBI informers.
Yes, and the rhetoric is exactly the same for all of these! Same with how the fbi prosecutes them, totally all the same to the fbi, look, they said so! Never any extra demonizing of right wingers, never any extra efforts to prosecute right wingers, look, the fbi said so!
Obviously the fbi targeted way more leftist organizations in the past (the red scare anyone) but this just goes to show the fbi has always been a lapdog to power. The power right now is obviously targeting the “right” side of the political spectrum.
5. Weather Underground – Far Left
The weather underground hasn’t existed in 40 years. I think your data is a bit past its sell by date.
I still get weather reports from their website. wunderground.com. Quite a nice, respectable organization.
Not anymore. They got bought a decade back by the Weather Channel and the site has been made progressively worse ever since.
They were cool back in the old days though.
And yet they got an acolyte elected president for two terms…
I don’t think the Black Panthers get around much anymore either
Aryan nation is just a gang, like the crips or bloods or ms13.
KKK is tiny, and half it’s members are FBI.
The other 3 “far right” organizations nobody has ever heard of.
This seems lake a list from a way earlier time……Black Panthers have been gone a long time, the others were from the 60s to 80s…
Are you serious or pranking us???
Seems your post is essentially a lie told to confuse and deceive!
List is old and antiquated. How many of those listed now continue to exist? Maybe one or two.
The FBI is a now an little more than a political weapon of the left to crush dissent.
The FBI has been heavily political since the days of J. Edgar Hoover.
Do you have a broader point, or just trying to deflect from the current the SS?
It’s not deflection, it just shows how staying consistent to libertarian values revealed the power serving nature of the fbi long ago, and the solution was invented decades ago, vote libertarian, which isn’t advocated in the article at all which is too bad.
It’s 100% deflection.
You advocate submission to totalitarian leftism.
To be fair, J Edgar Hoover’s legacy is worthy of a dress. It just shouldn’t be used to skirt issues of current misconduct.
This has been true since AT LEAST 2008, when they put out a very similar memo about ‘Constitutional Extremists” (aka – Ron Paul supporters)
CHOPS was their attempt to walk back the inflammatory nature of what they did. They originally called it CHAZ, “Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone” and we should hold them to that because “autonomous zone” explicitly indicates that they were in rebellion against the government.
Ted Cruz asked the FBI about why all these perceived “right wing” symbols are listed but nothing about BLM or Antifa that have actually attacked our nation and claimed to change it unlike right wing groups who want to restore it to its constitution.
Note Reason didn’t bother to mention that Ted Cruz and others took the FBI to task over this
Government accountability is for heroic journalists, not elected representatives, duh.
Oh those kids, but their hears are in the right place!
Fuck the FBI. Antifa and blm have caused more death and property destruction than any of these ultra fringe groups. This is a joke.
Scaremongering about radical right militias worked for the Clintons in the late 90’s, so of course the left will play that card again. It probably also helped get Obama re-elected, although Romney pussing out in the debates helped too.
Well… right leaning, or constitutionalist, militias seem to be nonexistent these days.
So yes, it worked.
Enjoy tyranny.
Right, right, they didn’t arrest any of them whataboutism hero?
The FBI is the new . They are a political arm of the regime. So Biden rails against Putin yet acts just like him.
Stasi
The Soviets made the Gestapo the bogeyman and the Nazis made the NKVD the bogeyman. Fairly typical of authoritarian regimes.
THEY ALL act just like him. But hey don’t let your bias cause you to call out out one single man.
“The FBI … has placed more emphasis on domestic dissent than on organized crime and, according to some, let its efforts against foreign spies suffer because of the amount of time spent checking up on American protest groups,” the Senate’s Church Committee complained in 1976.
Bullshit. None of this started until 2021.
Sarcasmic: Nothing to see here. This is nothing new.
Reason has been reporting on this for at least ten years.
Really? I don’t believe you.
If you were an honest person I might care. Then again I probably wouldn’t. And since you’re not. Well, you can figure it out.
So it’s okay for you to lie because you think I’m somehow dishonest?
Sounds like Captain Morgan’s at the helm of the USS Sarcasmic again.
Hah, that’s a good point!
Here I was, all concerned that the FBI is warning State Government to be on the lookout for traditional symbols of Freedom, and trying to cast them as violent or extreme. But you are right. The far more important point is to turn these comments into Flame Wars XXVM.
Thanks Sarc!
Seriously dude, they’ve been reporting on this for at least ten years. Who knows how long it’s actually been going on. Remember the great militia scare during the Clinton years? Would surprise me if the FBI wasn’t looking at people flying the Gadson Flag with suspicion back then.
Or, to put it another way, this isn’t news.
Usually when people are concerned about something they say it once and then shut up. Saves time for when you want to attack your enemies.
Good point.
You’ve made it clear that you’re fine with using government to go after your political foes, because fair is fair and principles are shminciples. The equivalent of childishly shouting “But Mommy! He did it first!”
“Or, to put it another way, this isn’t news.”
Really? There was no new information to come out? No escalation from the FBI? No new tactics tried by them, like circulating a flier that suggests states be on the lookout for only one type of domestic agitator, and to look for them among people with Gadsden Flags? Gosh, I guess Reason is just bringing this up for no reason.
So, you are right. The BETTER thing to do is to start the flame wars.
Dude, it’s not news because it’s not new. They’ve been doing this for decades.
Maybe it’s news to you.
GFY
So you are arguing that Reason shouldn’t have posted this article?
Or are you arguing that we shouldn’t discuss the article that Reason posted, and instead we should be lighting the troll signal?
I’m saying that it’s been going on, across R and D administrations, for decades. Which means it’s not partisan. It’s government.
Hmmm…
“Bullshit, none of this started until 2021”
Sure seems like you were lighting the troll beacon.
How strange you do not understand that it is always BOTH partisan AND government.
It started in 1935 under J. Edgar Hoover.
FDR
J. Edgar Hoover was the first director of the FBI and he had his own political agenda.
How about the ‘sons of liberty’? Do they qualify?
Can I carry a flag showing Ben Franklin?
How about a huge flag with the letters F.B.I. covered by a red circle with a diagonal slash?
How about “frequent commenter on Reason.com”?
Why? It’s not like frequent commenters on Reason.com want less government. Most are fine with huge government as long as their team is in charge and their political enemies are the targets.
Poor sarc.
While it is true that frequent commenters (the libertarian ones) argue that Team Red is less dangerous nowadays than Team Blue, it is not true that these commenters are fine with more gov’t in general. One can also say/predict that it is more likely to have a GOP-dominant establishment in the future than having a reduced gov’t, but that would still just be a statement of opinion. Furthermore, one can also add that no one deserves such a fate more than Team Blue, but again, this still wouldn’t be equal to sarcasmic’s statement. Just because we, libertarians, recognize the bigger threat to our freedoms, it doesn’t mean that in principle we support the very same means against these dangerous people/team/establishment. This is as absurd as stating that “opposition against violent criminals, and violent crime in general is equivalent to the support of state sanctioned executions”. No, it wouldn’t mean that. It would only mean that libertarians are calling a spade a… spade.
The prevailing theme that I see in the comments is “If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em” with regards to using big government as a weapon against political foes.
No. That’s your prevailing rationalization so you can join team jeff. O mean after 3 years of covid and 2 of Biden you kind of understand team blue is not looking out for your liberties. But you persist.
Shorter JesseAz: “Why are you hitting yourself! Why are you hitting yourself!”
Well yeah. Why are you hitting yourself?
He’s broken.
It’s astounding how powerfully crafted the narratives around government are. People have a hard time holding two things to be true at once, and if they run counter to these narratives, it becomes even harder apparently.
“Most are fine with huge government as long as their team is in charge and their political enemies are the targets.”
Your new pal Jeff may be large but he’s not most.
It’s threads like this that makes it hard to have a real discussion with you. You’re so caught up in your sanctimonious true Scotsman routine and rushing to defend Reason at all costs, that you make an ass of yourself. Days like this you’re hardly better than Sqrsly.
What about a woodchopper?
Chipper dangit lol
That’s ok, Paul Bunyan probably made the list too, for the way he cruelly enslaved that big Blue ox (you have to spell Blue with a capital B now).
Just watch which brand of bottled beer you drink (finger to side of nose )
Not forgetting that pro-life activists are now “Forced Birth Zealots”, per the Washington Post.
Yep, the othering is ramping up. They are getting very close to calling everyone (except Democrats) terrorists. This will not end well.
“Forced Birth”
Could you imagine trying to explain this concept to someone even 100 years ago?
Shit, try 10 years ago.
The acceleration of the USA into bizarro world is breathtaking.
Some claim Trump drove the Democrat party batshit crazy, and the evidence is compelling. That their party’s pseudo arms (FBI, schools, entertainment industry) is behaving insanely is expected.
I wonder if this is how citizens of the Weimar republic felt.
I hear from people who were in Cuba after 1959 that it’s how they felt.
The citizens of Weimar Republic had much less information than we do. It’s an open question whether they would’ve tolerated nazi crazy if fully informed. Pretty sure they wouldn’t have tolerated near as much as we do.
Wow, it took over six decades, but I’m finally running with the cool kids!
What democrats spend you tax dollars on, Biden backed film promoted incest and sex with minors. As part of Biden’s “LGBTQ+ and Diversity, Equity, Inclusion & Accessibility efforts,” the State Department spent $10,000.00 promoting “Queer Lisboa,” a noted Portuguese film festival.
You know. I’ll take government patronage of the arts, even art I will never look at, over a lot of other stuff that they could be doing.
???
I mean, I suppose they could decide to implement extermination camps for “undesirables” — sure, that would be worse. But that’s an odd argument to make.
(No, the government should not be using taxpayer funds for “patronage of the arts.”)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state
“suppose they could decide to implement extermination camps for “undesirables” — sure, that would be worse”
It’s called Planned Parenthood and reproductive healthcare
No, funding art is asking for government endorsement and or sanctioning of art. Funding art historically speaking is backdoor propaganda as well. Nothing defensible about funding art with tax payer money (or to be more accurate, debt).
And fuck, this isn’t even American art, it’s a fucking festival in Portugal. Which makes it even fucking worse.
What does ten grand buy? A two inch add in the New York Times classifieds?
Nazi flags are cool though, right? 卍
How did you do that?
alt codes
卍 By the way that’s NOT a swastika. its backwards
Navajo blanket makers hardest hit.
Embrace and Celebrate All Cultures.
This is just a continuation of the coup against America that you were a cheerleader for. GFY.
As an electrical engineer, I’m sorta proud they listed the Ohm symbol.
As an electrical engineer, I’m pissed that the LGBTs appropriated our resistor color codes for their rainbow flag.
Lol
Ohm isn’t that what meditators chant “Ohm Ohm Ohm….” they must be watched very carefully
I guess it’s a symbol of the…. (dons sunglasses)… Resistance?
I used to be part of the resistance. Then I turned 90 degrees to the right and became part of the capacitance.
Are they 5%,10% or 20%?
I guess I’m gonna have to throw away my collection of resistors. Capacitors will be next.
Meanwhile:
Senate Democrats pass budget package, a victory for Biden
https://apnews.com/article/senate-climate-tax-deal-vote-dbdb3107c4c5e3e0e5af8a58d56c7bc1?user_email=8af93826158da9c072c79266997a708f163c62a791fa0ba204caef2455f18a6a&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Aug08_MorningWire&utm_term=Morning%20Wire%20Subscribers
Let’s Go Biden!
Lol I was wondering if you were gonna celebrate this chode of a spending bill (chode compared to other drafts of it such as BBB).
However, it will produce enough inflation to further weaken the Democrats and get even more people to wake up to their irresponsibility. I guess this may be a success for Biden, as he seems very busy degrading what little credibility the Democrats still have.
Can you imagine if they didn’t have most of the media in their pocket?
They would be different.
I’m keeping this post to remind Joe of his celebration of that insanity in the future.
In three months when this further craters the economy, Joe will be telling us that it was a Republican bill that failed because Republicans and Manchin watered it down. These retards are nothing if not predictable.
They are raising taxes during a recession. They are also raising corporate taxes in the name of reducing inflation.
From a strictly partisan perspective, this bill passing is very good news for Republicans. It is only going to make things much worse.
Dude, I know, right? I got a 5 digit raise from eliminating the SALT Deduction Cap. It’s the sugary coating of a very bitter pill.
You misspelled Brandon.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults.
Not a one of his posts is worth refuting; like turd he lies and never does anything other than lie. If something in one of Joe Asshole’s posts is not a lie, it is there by mistake. Joe Asshole lies; it’s what he does.
Joe Asshole is a psychopathic liar; he is too stupid to recognize the fact, but everybody knows it. You might just as well attempt to reason with or correct a random handful of mud as engage Joe Asshole.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults; Joe Asshole deserves nothing other.
Eat shit and die, Asshole.
They call it stormy Monday
And Joe Friday’s just the same.
You are a moron that further beclowns himself.
The list just got longer you violent extremists. I myself love the government and wish it were 4 times bigger. I need my rulers to tell me what to do every moment of every day because I know they love me so much and only want what’s best for me.
The – FBI – are – very – good – and – the – Democrats – are – our – saviors. All – hail – Adam – Schiff.
I believe you mean:
The FBI – Hard workers that they are — are very good.-. And the Democrats- well they are our saviors..- right? All hail Adam -.- Schiff!
All hail Adam Schiff! — .- -.– -… .
But Fuck Joe Biden.
She does not speak for the rest of us Mr. Clown…er FBI…. We think that you are quite brave and manly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf6fvGih6e0
We’re all patriots here!
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/cda8d039-51ce-4631-a311-c9bf019309a8
https://twitter.com/SharylAttkisson/status/1556638285023383553?t=z6Mn7Ah1PirvljFko0ZUEA&s=19
Full, updated list
(CENSORED) Google censors factually accurate info about Covid and Donald Trump at
[Link]
“When the FBI puts out a bulletin on symbols “used by Anti-Government or Anti-Authority Violent Extremists,” and it looks like a catalog of T-shirts half the country might want to wear, it’s a strong indication that the feds are way off-base.”
Are you certain? Perhaps half the country needs some re-education. And more federal oversight of their elections, schools, and public health policies.
#21stCenturyCarpetBaggers
“True, the U.S. is suffering a wave of political violence from across the political spectrum.”
Bullshit! It’s a pretty narrow section of that spectrum. Then throw in the “Animal Farm” definition of “violence”. Assault, rioting, theft, arson…………. “peaceful” Criticizing, speaking out, the Truth…………………..”violence”.
Exactly!
I thought the same; who exactly has been rioting and burning places down?
I don’t recall seeing any Proud Boys tossing molotov cocktails, setting police cars on fire and looting Nike and Apple Stores.
Some how I missed that.
https://twitter.com/PECoach75/status/1556640167112413186?t=GYzXFLEmHEiC_5h6oEqamw&s=19
Just like the FBI & DOJ work exclusively for Democrats, Americans will soon find out with 87,000 newly ‘armed’ agents, so does this IRS.
Some Democrats made statements Trump supporters would pay for electing him, guessing this is the beginning.
What could possibly go wrong?
I believe the term is “swarms of officers to harass them”
swarms of officers to harass them
Right Wing Extremist trigger phrase
https://twitter.com/johncardillo/status/1556641197019602944?t=d3QG-dWZprYDPhjVRWz6mQ&s=19
Senior Biden official @AndrewJBates46 intentionally tweeted Nazi imagery.
This is a globally recognized symbol of the Reich.
No way in the world this was a mistake. Nobody is that stupid or historically ignorant.
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1556500563839569920?t=3lJngSktZ-lpzgo9BzErbA&s=19
A Biden staffer tried to make Dark Brandon a thing but copied a meme off of 4chan with a Reich Eagle in the background
[Link]
These symbols are being used as… symbols. Markers of one’s tribal affiliation. As such they don’t necessarily mean what they ostensibly say.
Thus I’ve always liked the version of the Gadsen Flag that says “Don’t Tread on Anyone”. But fat chance seeing any conservative waving that. Hell, it would be a rarity to even see it at Porcfest. Anyone can say “don’t tread on me”, but it takes a modicum of character to say “don’t tread on anyone”.
“…But fat chance seeing any conservative waving that…”
But lefties like you?
“As such they don’t necessarily mean what they ostensibly say.”
Here Brandy engages in the normal mind reading that always means never having to be concerned about the persecution of icky deplorables.
You see, because those symbols might not mean what we think they mean, we shouldn’t be concerned. Especially since certain icky people- and Brandy doesn’t need to name names, amiright?- tend to use these symbols.
“Thus I’ve always liked the version of the Gadsen Flag that says “Don’t Tread on Anyone”. But fat chance seeing any conservative waving that.”
I can guarantee you that Brandy has never once in his life actually displayed a flag that says “Don’t Tread on Anyone.” Brandy has never used the term other than in cases like this where Brandy thinks it is some clever retort to smear conservatives. Because Brandy actually thinks there is something clever about changing the message from, “I don’t care what you do as long as you leave individuals alone”, to “I don’t care what you do as long as you leave all people alone”.
And what is hilarious is how this “Don’t tread on Anyone” symbol is so incoherent.
The Gadsden Flag is a warning. It uses a rattlesnake precisely because a rattlesnake is generally harmless unless you actively try to harm it. The flag isn’t saying “I’m the owner of this flag and I’m out to bite you” It is saying that PEOPLE are the Rattlesnake (there are 13 rattles on the tail), who won’t harm you unless you oppress them.
But for some reason, “Me” is too individual of a word for some people- again failing to understand that a flag is a symbol for many “Me”s. So they change the metaphor by suggesting that the Rattlesnake is dangerous if you tread on ANYONE. It is no longer, “be careful where you step because you may just disturb a rattler”. Instead it is, “Bop a field mouse on the head, and a rattler will drop out of the trees onto you!”
So the “updated” flag has completely flipped the metaphor. Instead of a snake (the colonies) being happy to live freely unless it is aggressed upon, Brandy’s flag has a Rattler sitting sentry over the forest, ready to bite anyone that it believes is aggressing on others.
You can argue whether or not conservatives (or libertarians for that matter), ought to position themselves as defenders of others’ freedoms. But even if that were the case, the rattlesnake is a stupid symbol for that concept. Rattlesnakes aren’t Nature’s guardian, and anyone thinking this is a clever change to the Gadsden Flag merely shows how naive and unserious they are.
Full marks. A+
“And what is hilarious is how this “Don’t tread on Anyone” symbol is so incoherent.”
No words under the snake picture would be best. It’s universally understood, and besides, these snakes don’t speak English and don’t need to. They have rattles. Perhaps some ‘sound lines’ emanating from the rattle to show the snake is agitated is preferable. Otherwise it’s self explanatory. If any flag needs a caption, it’s got to be the igloo flag. What the hell is that all about, and what captions would meet with your approval?
God you’re an idiot, party sycophant.
You mean like the fat chance of any leftists saying “All Lives Matter” instead of “Black Lives Matter” after they learned to behave themselves.
Yeah, sort of. Except “all lives matter” was used by some (not all) to minimize the Black lives. Whereas “don’t tread on anyone” is explicitly libertarian as both Democrats and Republicans agree on the “don’t tread on me” part.
I’ve always thought that the rattlesnake was a bad libertarian mascot. “I will bite you!” Ditto for the porcupine. “I will poke you!” Once it used to be the turtle, but guess not sexy enough.
Keep dissembling. It’s funny watching your squirm.
I’m glad you’re having fun, it’s painful for me.
“Once it used to be the turtle, but guess not sexy enough.”
Turtles have this weird habit of forming a line perched on the back of the turtle in front.
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/07/article-0-12F34A1D000005DC-118_964x769.jpg
It’s sexy in a reptilian way but hardly a good symbol for libertarianism which puts individual autonomy above all else. These turtles support and are supported by others. It’s a better symbol for communism and group effort.
?
Whom, according to you, do conservatives want to tread on?
Didn’t say they want to tread on anyone. Only that don’t want others to tread on *them*. There is a different.
p.s. But some people in the broad camp to the right of center might want to tread on others. Like perhaps immigrants, or Democrats, or Californians, or whatever. But in general the broad and undefined movement is not about treading on others when they are out of power.
So you got nothing, but needed to bash the right, instead of besmirching the outright authoritarianism of classifying people based on their political beliefs and then subjecting them to government spying and likely worse. Yeah, some libertarian you are.
How dare conservatives not waive a flag you just invented in your head!
A flag he invented which, by the way, is 100% a progressive, collectivist message.
“There was no intent to offend or single out individuals and groups who use these symbols for historical or legitimate purposes,” the fusion center apologized after a wave of pushback. “We will attempt to articulate those distinctions clearer in the future.”
“We admit we are incompetent and grammatically challenged. However, we will continue to monitor individuals and groups who use these symbols.”
All hail Britannia! And Long Live the King!
“….One of the ‘indicators’ is a slightly altered version of a picture popular with fans of the Grateful Dead.”
I wonder which one that is. Here I am wondering if this “picture” is, perhaps, already, residing on my Jeep or on one of my hats…
Too late! Good luck getting off the list.
Who wants to get off the list?? I want to get more copies and put them everywhere!
Dear Feds,
Add me to your faggy list.
Also: Fuck You.
Sincerely,
Moi
Dear Sheldonius,
We think it’s cute that you think you’re not already on one of our lists.
Best Wishes,
The FBI.
Yeah, if you’re not on a list yet, you’re doing America wrong.
I don’t fly often any more but when I did last week [first time in two years] I seriously would not have been surprised to learn that I was on the no fly list; supposedly posting something innocuous or flying a “rebellious” flag might get you there.
Such is the state of our State nowadays.
didn’t see the Van Buren Boys anywhere.
Too local.
But watch out in nearby pizzarias
I hear they are not to be fucked with.
Most government officials are good people with good intentions, but as a condition of retaining governing authority over us little people – every official (including FBI, DHS, DOJ, etc) swears a supreme loyalty Oath of Office to uphold the U.S. Constitution.
One cannot serve in the FBI, DHS, military, local police officer, etc, without agreeing to this constitutional Oath of Office. This employment and authority oath include the 1st Amendment, 4th Amendment (outlawing warrantless searches) and all constitutional rights.
Having said that, these honorable government officials follow orders from “top” management. If subordinate FBI officials receive illegal orders from above, they will follow those illegal orders.
Solution: we need someone like Mike German to lead and reform the FBI. German was a former FBI agent specializing in rightwing domestic terrorism. German is more experienced than any FBI Director in modern history, actually performing undercover work in real domestic terrorist groups. German currently works at the Brennan Center. We need loyalty at the very top, someone loyal to their Oath of Office. We don’t have that loyalty, by leadership, in many agencies today.
Your solution is crap. The real solution is to vote Libertarian and get rid of the fbi. Stop looking for others to make the world better. If you are afraid violence might endanger you, take steps yourself, buy some weapons/security services. Stop expecting people you will never meet to care, what a weird denial of human nature.
“a supreme loyalty Oath of Office to uphold the U.S.
ConstitutionGovernment”They seem to interpret that oath a little differently that the actual words would have you believe.
“Most government officials are good people with good intentions,”
You got any kind of citation for that fantasy?
3 types of people are attracted to government work:
1. People who genuinely want to serve and protect the public.
2. People who want a secure job with great benefits and little accountability.
3. People who want to boss other people around.
I’m not sure on the percentages of each, and there may be some overlap.
4. Fuckups who know they can’t be fired.
To be fair most people want #2.
I say I was all number 1 and half of number 2 (I actually wanted more oversight and direction from above, it rarely ever happened).
I was gonna say that ‘most government officials think they are good people with good intentions’ would work, but I don’t have a cite for that either.
That would all be well and good, but the government also labels the Oath Keepers as an extremist group.
That explains why no government workers actually keep their oaths to the Constitution. They would get rode out of the office like the extremists they are. ????
To be fair he did say *most*. What he fails to realize is that the social desirability bias of the ones with good intentions causes them to bow down to the ones who want to do wrong, but dress up there evil in the rhetoric of good intentions. So they aren’t good people. They are just people with good intentions. Which means he didn’t say anything at all really, because who doesn’t that cover?
Or conjuring up the kidnapping plot against Gov. Witmer.
Police of all kinds have mortgages, kids tuitions, Orthodontist bills, and car repairs. They will do whatever they are told to do until they reach FRA.
Wow, you’re almost as stupid as Joe Friday.
Uhm might want to review the military oath of office. It doesn’t state follow all orders, it says ‘follow the lawful orders of the officers appointed above me.’ Obeying unlawful orders won’t save your ass in a courts martial. Ask the dickheads that ran Abu Gharib, moron. Blowing shit out your ass.
Who doesn’t blow shit out their ass?
“True, the U.S. is suffering a wave of political violence from across the political spectrum. ”
Oh, that’s weird, if you keep the perspective of your actual life in mind and not just the rhetoric online, all the people I know have remained as peaceful as ever. (Even the ones who went full retard in 2020) So let’s see where the link goes to convince me that there is a “wave” of political violence.
“After a week featuring a House hearing into the Capitol riot, the attempted assassination of a U.S. Supreme Court justice, the firebombing of an anti-abortion group, and the arrest of extremists apparently ready to rumble at a Pride Month event.”
That’s weird, to cover “both sides” of the spectrum as engaging in more extreme acts of violence, the examples are 5 examples of people on the “left” who are ideologically possessed abusing people the mainstream media portrayed as being on the “right”. Libertarians really need to stop using the false narratives the “left” manufactures. I understand it’s hard to tell what’s really going on if you actually think most of the propoganda pushed by the government is coming in good faith, but when your full time job is inundated in examples and proof of why that isn’t the case, why not just call a spade a spade.
Violence from the “left” has *actually* increased (calling 2020 anyone) and the “right” is simply seeing what the acceptable tools of debate are on the left and adopting them. Just like they do with almost everything else the left comes up with. Gay marriage is illegal and immoral, well wait a few generations and voila most Republicans no longer care. Abortion is always wrong. Wait a few generations and voila, most Republicans believe in some form of abortion access. Democrats got really violent? Voila.
The real fight is the same it’s always been, collectivists vs. individualists. Please vote Libertarian.
“Oh, that’s weird, if you keep the perspective of your actual life in mind and not just the rhetoric online, all the people I know have remained as peaceful as ever.”
That’s becoming increasingly difficult, especially with the introduction of the smart phone some dozen years ago. Once to get online it was necessary to sit at your computer and connect via modem. Now people are constantly connected and their attention is absorbed by life online.
“Gay marriage is illegal and immoral, well wait a few generations and voila most Republicans no longer care.”
That’s because conservatives tend to be Republicans and conservatives resist change, by definition. Lagging behind liberals in matters of social policy is baked in.
Lagging behind liberals in matters of social policy is baked in.
It’s much harder for Conservatives to accept Failed Cultural Practices as being in the Country’s best interest, but when you shove it down their throat, so to speak, they eventually quit protesting.
Marriage and nuclear families may be failed cultural practices, but conservatives also get divorced, cheat on their spouses, and so on. You can hardly blame the disintegration of our institutions on gay marriage, which if anything demonstrates a conservative impulse – one to fortify and consolidate the family rather than tear it apart. Truly radical gays were horrified by the patriarchal implications of legal recognition of gay marriage.
In America, most conservative would actually be considered liberals in Europe. Because they believe in classical liberalism, as enunciated during the enlightenment, i.e. natural freedoms, individualism over collectivism, free markets, etc. What you call liberals are actually collectivists, which is far closer to European Conservative groups, that promote the idea of sacrifice of individual liberties for the collective good, promoting large bureaucracies (which came out of the Prussian state as it tried to distance itself from the Holy Roman Empire during the 18th century), strong central government, with a strong executive, which is basically 18th century pro-monarchy arguments, ruling by elites and technocrats, Holy Roman Empire imperial reforms in the 16th century. Collective liberties, again Holy Roman Empire imperial reforms of the 16th century. Government ran by taxation to service the debt (France in the 18th century, Holy Roman Empire 16-18th century, Spain from the end of Reconquista till today). The system American Conservatives want to conserve is basically the system that opposed all of these things, led to 13 separate colonies with differing opinions and needs, binding together to take on the best equipped and trained Army (arguably, the Prussian Army was close to being it’s equal) and Navy in the world, and writing the Constitution. American liberals are not liberals. They’re progressives, which actually is also a misnomer, because the systems they propose are actually regressive.
It’s not only Europe that recognizes that there is such a thing as a collectivity that deserves to be protected, even at the cost of individual lives and livelihoods. You’ll find the idea alive and well in Canada and Mexico, immediate neighbor to the north and south, and across the ocean in Asia and darkest Africa. You’ll find it within American borders too. What are our Indian tribes if not collectivities of people who share the same culture and ancestry?
“American liberals are not liberals. ”
So? American Indians are not Indians. American conservatives are not conservative. American football isn’t football.
The point is your insipid argument about Conservatives wanting to conserve is misrepresenting what it is the want to conserve. Also, sacrificing yourself for others is just as common in individualistic societies as collectives, however, the latter almost always invariably leads to tyranny and loss of individual liberties. Considering that the majority of servicemen I know and served with were die hard supporters of individualism, and there were few, very few collectivist progressives serving then or now, I’m going to say the individualistic conservatives are more willing to sacrifice their selves for the good of others, whereas progressives always want to sacrifice other people’s goods for their definition of collective good.
“misrepresenting what it is the want to conserve”
You mean that all conservatives are of one mind in what is to be conserved? They sound suspiciously like collectivists to me. They probably come from Europe or Canada or somewhere.
“Considering that the majority of servicemen I know and served with were die hard supporters of individualism,”
No doubt they paid lip service to individualism. Assuming it was the US service you are talking about, how could it be otherwise? But military is the essence of uniformed collectivity, collectivities within collectivities, all in perfect hierarchies, right down to the squad level.
” The feds are telling us something very revealing about themselves.”
They’re telling themselves which images and symbols that anti-government activists have appropriated and identify with. The snake flag and the confederate battle flag are well known, but it’s a stretch to expect typical FBI agents to know the igloo flag or understand ancient Greek.
What’s your point? Fbi agents are incompetent?
FBI agents may be government officials but they are not omniscient and we shouldn’t expect them to be. If knowledge of some ancient Greek or the igloo flag is germane to their work, that knowledge should be shared. A huge bureaucracy like the FBI can’t run smoothly without the free flow of information and sharing of knowledge.
A huge bureaucracy like the FBI can’t run smoothly
without the free flow of information and sharing of knowledge.That’s probably true but knowledge is power and members of the FBI or any bureaucracy jealously hording their secrets to firm up their power base within the organization isn’t helping things. Not that an igloo flag is any kind of secret, it’s more a piece of esoteric knowledge that people don’t typically come across over the normal course of their lives, unlike the meaning of the confederate battle flag, for example, which is widely recognized across society.
“They’re telling themselves which images and symbols that anti-government activists have appropriated and identify with.”
See you did the same thing as the FBI. And you don’t even realize it, do you?
You don’t want the FBI to share this information among its members? How is the bureaucracy, a public institution, served by keeping its members in ignorance? The assumption that everyone ‘just knows’ the meaning of the igloo flag and is conversant in ancient Greek is wrong.
How does it enhance liberty, especially freedom of speech, to target people based on a symbol? Even if some misuse that symbol, it doesn’t mean everyone does. Targeting it is the antithesis of what America is supposed to stand for. We target individuals who break a law, and we don’t monitor people based on politics or symbols, especially symbols that are tied to the very founding of this country and the ideals of liberty they fought for. Take you authoritarian excuse making and stuff it up your fascist ass.
Because this is exactly what fascists did, target their political opponents and used the government to monitor them and then worse. This is straight out of 1930s Germany.
“This is straight out of 1930s Germany.”
This is straight out of the play book of all governments, including the US, and you don’t have to go back 100 years to find examples. Though of course there are plenty of 100 year old examples, and plenty earlier. The US government has had an agency entirely devoted to monitoring and supervising the Indian population for over 200 years.
Also if it was just for information, why the silent treatment when the media asks about it? If it’s just well researched information, shouldn’t the be sharing it freely with everyone so they know what to look for? Fuck, you’re excuse making is pathetic.
“Also if it was just for information, why the silent treatment when the media asks about it?”
Don’t know. Maybe the FBI media liaison was closed yesterday, it being a Sunday.
“shouldn’t the be sharing it freely with everyone so they know what to look for? ”
Someone (‘sources’ according to the article) has already leaked the document to the press, and published it on Twitter. That’s sharing a lot more freely than most of what the FBI publishes.
Tell me when did the FBI last target progressives symbols and groups specifically?
I’m not up on FBI activities aside from the headlines here at Reason. Black Panthers, Fred Hampton et al though, is a good start. Their symbols – berets, sunglasses, afro hair style, black leather, raised clenched fist. I’m not sure whether the Panthers were what you call ‘progressive.’ Maoist is more descriptive, followers of Chairman Mao. The FBI had them under total surveillance and their organization was riddled with government informers, and they were subject to summary executions.
Get a fucking grip. It’s a pamphlet with information about the symbols that anti-government extremists have appropriated. Good lord man, of all the things to criticize the FBI for, this has to rank as the one of the more innocuous.
“and we don’t monitor people based on politics or symbols,”
Symbols, no. Politics, definitely yes.
“especially symbols that are tied to the very founding of this country and the ideals of liberty they fought for”
Why not? If extremists have appropriated these symbols, where’s the advantage in keeping FBI agents in the dark about their use and meaning? Are these symbols too sacred to be sullied by being the subject of FBI pamphlets? What nonsense!
Do you ever get tired of defending fascism?
Get a grip it’s just a yellow star or pink triable you have to wear.
Nobody is forcing anyone to wave an igloo flag. The igloo flag wavers do so entirely on their own volition, presumably with full knowledge of the meaning of the symbols they display. The idea that the victims of the Nazis are analogous is ridiculous. You’ve clearly lost the thread here.
If 1 person out of a million person group – like Black Lives Matter, PETA, NRA or C-PAC – perpetrates violence. 99% of those groups are peaceful and law-abiding. There is no probable cause or even reasonable suspicion to illegally search the 99%. Officials swear an Oath of Office not to violate anyone’s speech, assembly or search/seizure restraints on their authority.
This seems to be the “mission-creep” problem of many well-meaning agency leaders. They find 1 nut out of 1 million people, then justify searching the other 99% not breaking the law.
This unconstitutional and illegal “guilt-by-association” makes all of us LESS safe. Using a “Needle in the Haystack” metaphor, it makes the “haystack” of suspects so large that it’s far harder to find the real bad guys. The vast majority of resources are used to investigate the 99% that will never be a threat to anyone.
We now have a mega-monument in Washington, DC honoring the Christian minister Martin Luther King, Jr who’s quality of life was destroyed by this practice. Former FBI Director Comey even preached to his FBI officials to not repeat this practice. Christopher Wray should follow Comey’s advice.
Mike German as the next FBI Director would make all of us safer. He’s even wiser than Comey was.
No great man or woman is going to save us; you cannot fix what is inherently evil, you must eliminate it or at least reduce it to being controlled by and directly answerable to the consent of the governed.
That is not the state of this country now.
And I can think of certain large political organizations from recent history that were staffed with “many well-meaning agency leaders” who simply followed orders and sent many innocents to their untimely and horrible death.
“If 1 person out of a million person group – like Black Lives Matter, PETA, NRA or C-PAC – perpetrates violence. 99% of those groups are peaceful and law-abiding.”
None of these are anti-government groups. BLM is about the rights of black people, PETA, animals, and NRA rifle owners. If members of these groups do commit anti-government acts, they are often agents provocateur, basically government moles used to discredit the organization and its agenda.
BLM is not about the rights of Black People.
PETA isn’t about treating animals ethically.
Neither is an anti-government organization. Same with the NRA. They are advocacy groups to agitate for their interests, and the FBI must not consider them as anit-government activists or terrorists.
As are most people who fly the Gadsen Flag, asshat, or say Moab Labe (which is very popular with veterans groups as well) or people who celebrate warrior cultures (veterans and Amerindians). Fuck, you can’t excuse this authoritarian bullshit away. Even joining a militia is protected by freedom of expression and freedom of association. It’s not a crime to say we hate the government, it’s actually fucking protected speech, and monitoring someone for protected speech is fucking u American ass hat. Period. It’s indefensible. It’s unconstitutional, it’s unpatriotic etc.
“which is very popular with veterans groups as well) or people who celebrate warrior cultures (veterans and Amerindians).”
Popular with veterans and Indians. But not FBI agents. Hence the pamphlet.
Actual Americans are familiar with those symbols.
Fascist creeps are not.
So, it’s okay for the FBI to target symbols that they don’t like? Is that really what you’re arguing in this post? Because that’s what you just stated.
They don’t target symbols. They target people, arrest them and put them in cages. Symbols are just symbols and we are all free to use and display them. Your sympathy for the ill treatment of symbols is laudable but there are actual human beings who suffer at the hands of the government. Direct your compassion to them.
BLM was founded by people that, by their own admission, are Marxists and have Marxist goals. Therefore they are a threat to the republic.
“Therefore they are a threat to the republic.”
The idea that BLM, PETA or the NRA is a threat to the republic is ludicrous and beside the point. It’s not illegal to agitate for black rights, animal rights or gun rights. It’s not illegal to study Marx, or follow his thinking. Neither is it illegal to threaten a republic.
Sure, but it’s great for job security.
Stop spamming, totalitarian leftist piece of shit
Just so everyone is aware the organization German belongs to filed an ambicus brief supporting John Doe Laws which allow wireless wiretaps. They oppose any voter ID laws. The support restrictions on campaign donations, oppose Citizens United. Mr. German was also heavily involved in the Right Wing Militia paranoia of the 1990s, has defended the FBIs handling of Ruby Ridge and Waco. So no surprise an authoritarian asshat like cointelpro supports him to lead the FBI. He won’t fix shit like this, he’ll put it on steroids.
Thanks for explaining Mr. German. Guy is a Class A Douchebag who should not be anywhere near anything resembling a lever of power.
The FBI is also concerned about the phrase ” . . . all enemies, foreign and domestic . . . ” This comes from the oath of enlistment that every soldier, sailor, airman, & Marine takes upon joining the service. Now every veteran is considered a terrorist? My government started calling veterns disparaging names early in the Obama era, now they are calling them criminals. Eventually, vets may decide to take them up on the offer to be a criminal, that could become messy.
” Now every veteran is considered a terrorist? ”
A bit shrill, no?
“Eventually, vets may decide to take them up on the offer to be a criminal, that could become messy.”
You mean they might lose their free education and medical care?
I tomorrow the FBI declares that displays of the current U.S. flag are a sure sign of a violent extremist, will you still be tut-tutting those of us bothered by this as “too shrill”?
For over 60 years now, the display of the display of the Nazi flag has been illegal in Germany. The American music combo, the Residents had to redesign the cover of their album Third Reich and Roll to be sold in Germany. In every other country the cover showed the impresario Dick Clark in a nazi uniform holding a carrot. And no, I haven’t lost any sleep over it. Get a fucking grip and choose your battles wisely.
Speaking of battles, you might be interested in the 1962 epic war movie The Longest Day, filmed on location in France. Filmed in black and white because the producers were not allowed by law to fly full color Nazi flags, even on a movie set. The nazi flags used in the film were b&w colored props designed to look like authentic flags only on black and white stock.
free education and medical care
Not free. Earned as part of the compensation package.
And which you pay into, because you pay for both GI Bill and Tricare. The payments aren’t much but we do pay for them.
Their hand has been in my pocket so long I forgot about that – speaking of Breach of Contract. In 1976 it was without payment and for life.
Ahhhh…. good times, good times !
Free education and medical? Fuck that, do you know how the GI Bill fucking works asshat? We pay into the system while we’re enlisted and once we’re discharged we get a whopping $300 or so dollars a month if we are registered at a university full time and maintain a GPA above 2.5. Also, we pay into tri-care, it’s taken out of your fucking pay automatically. So you know shit fuckhead.
I don’t see our veterans giving up their education and medical arrangements to take up a life of terror and crime. Do you?
Fuck off shithead.
Non-sequitor, you stated free health care and education, which it isn’t. So now your trying to distract from your own ignorant statement.
I don’t see many veterans taking up a life of crime and terror. If you attribute this to their access to non free education and medical care, make the argument. From what I’ve read, suicide is a big life style choice for veterans. Perhaps their accumulating educational and medical bills are to blame.
The Feds also seem very worried that some members of the military and the police seem to take their oaths to defend the Constitution quite seriously. Makes you wonder why they would have a problem with that.
Yeah. It’s like if Hitler & Co., before implementing their “final solution,” decided to purge the German military / police of anyone who openly refused to persecute Jews.
This is why leftists should be prohibited from participating in government. They’re always a threat.
Citizens shouldn’t stereotype all government officials but likewise federal officials shouldn’t stereotype all citizens.
The First Amendment – which all officials swear to uphold – protects most forms of speech. It protect freedom of assembly. Freedom of religion and freedom from religion imposed by government. It protects press freedoms. It even protects petitioning the government for grievances by citizens.
There are even federal constitutional-statutes, federal laws that spell out that officials can’t violate constitutional rights like Title 18 US Code 245.
“There are even federal constitutional-statutes, federal laws that spell out that officials can’t violate constitutional rights like Title 18 US Code 245.”
I don’t think that anyone’s rights are violated by the FBI informing its members that people flying a hammer and sickle flag, for example, are likely to be communists. Choose your battles wisely. The FBI has a history of seriously violating rights of citizens. This isn’t that.
This seems to be a pretty clear indicator that the FBI is not on our side, that it sees us — law-abiding, patriotic citizens — as the enemy. I don’t know what else they’d have to do for you to see it as a “big deal.”
“This seems to be a pretty clear indicator that the FBI is not on our side,”
It gets worse. Those ‘representatives’ in Washington? They don’t represent you. But you seem to think that wringing your hands over the FBI familiarizing themselves with the symbols that extremist groups have appropriated is somehow more important.
Monitoring people is meant to shill speech, thus it’s unconstitutional. Labeling people enemies or right wing extremists and terrorists based on historical symbols is a violation of freedom of speech. Placing people on watch lists for their speech and association is unconstitutional. Telling federal agents to pay close attention to people wearing a certain symbol is a violation of free speech and association. Fuck, what if it were Guy Fawkes masks, I doubt you’d be so sanguine about it.
Anyone who calls conservative’s right wing extremists’ proves themselves to be left wing extremists and probably belongs in prison,
“Monitoring people is meant to shill speech, thus it’s unconstitutional. ”
You’ve got this wrong. Those whose work it is to monitor and surveil us have no interest to lessen our speech. More speech is more data, and more data is more control. They want us to speak. They want us to click. It keeps the wheels turning. Silence and non-participation are their enemies. Knowing that certain groups have appropriated certain symbols just helps them along in their efforts to control.
“Fuck, what if it were Guy Fawkes masks, I doubt you’d be so sanguine about it.”
I think wearing a Guy Fawkes mask is one way to guarantee the attention of those who surveil us. It’s the same with using a supposedly cloaking technology like the tor browser, it serves to attract unwanted attention. Anonymity is recommended when rioting, torching police cars or attacking the state, but ideally these kinds of direct actions are just a fraction of a social movement’s tactics. The most effective and long lasting actions are transparent and done in the open daylight.
Yeah, monitoring people’s speech is completely benign. Fuck you’re insufferably ignorant or authoritarian, very likely both.
Monitoring speech is just the beginning. Monitoring clicks is just as important. And the corporate world is even more invested in surveilling the public and anticipating its activities. ‘Oh Brave New World,’ as the bard wrote centuries ago.
re: mtrueman
Constitutionally and legally, according to the U.S. Supreme Court, an organization would have to publicly advertise to it’s members that it’s mission was to essentially “subvert constitutional due process” (America’s model of government).
If the organization does not say this explicitly and publicly, it is illegal for any agency to view this as bypassing the 4th Amendment’s warrant requirement.
For example: Black Lives Matter mission was to stop constitutionally-subversive practices by some police. The NRA’s mission is to promote gun rights. If a member of either group breaks the law, they are essentially rogue members, not representing the other 99% following the non-subversive organization.
Likewise If a single FBI official subverts the U.S. Constitution or commits crimes, the other 99% of FBI officials aren’t guilty or under suspicion due to that one agent.
What’s curious is, many Arizona officials that won recent primary elections publicly seem to support constitutionally-subversive actions by the January 6 insurrectionist. Remember over 60 federal judges (including Trump appointed judges) declared Biden the legitimate winner.
The 14th Amendment’s “Disqualification Clause” would possibly make some of those Arizona politicians “illegal candidates” not legally able to hold any government job. Some of the officials previously swore a constitutional oath of office and now support insurrection. Trump could possibly also be disqualified.
Seems the FBI now has probable cause to meet 4th Amendment requirements and any judge would likely approve such a warrant for these Arizona candidates.
No, that isn’t how it works. It didn’t even fucking work that way for ex-Confederates. Saying they supported the protests or the activists is federally protected speech. Fuck, we’ve had several Democrats who supported groups in the 1970s that called for the overthrow of government and even committed far more violence than January 6th to achieve it, we’ve had several Democrats who supported the AIM, also a group that was advocating the overthrow of the US government. None of them were barred from office. Fuck, Obama openly associated with former members of the Weather Underground, a group that committed multiple terrorist acts in the 1970s with the aim to overthrow the government. Fuck, learn some fucking history dipshit.
Likewise If a single FBI official subverts the U.S. Constitution or commits crimes, the other 99% of FBI officials aren’t guilty or under suspicion due to that one agent.
But if an entire Government is dedicated to an unconstitutional Drug War for 100 years. Aren’t they all guilty?
You fans of the USA are enemies of the Nazi(National Socialist)-Regime.
And that about sums it all up.
A few months late to the party, Reason!
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/end-the-federal-bureau-of-investigation
Apparently Feds need to look out for terrorists quoting … https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/thomas-jefferson/
They have just published conclusive evidence of the need to place them at the head of a comprehensive list of Alphabet Agencies that need to be disbanded and the current staff at supervisory and management levels barred permanently from Federal Employment, including employment as a consultant.
Please note how they try to slip this shit by, the same as they did the Disinformation Board. First they try silence, then they try denial, then they say it exists but it’s not what you think, etc. Also, please note saying you support someone doesn’t make you guilty of their sins, it’s protected speech, unless you act on it. Saying you hate the government is protected speech. Saying I want to kill so and so is protected speech unless you actually have the means and wherewithal to do it. The Secret Service investigated thousands of death threats every year directed at the President (any president) almost none go beyond an initial investigation because the people aren’t actively seeking to kill the president and therefore it’s protected speech. Saying you support criminal action is even protected speech unless you are actively supporting the criminal actions with more than words (if not every pro-drug legalization activist would be criminals, every leftist who argues to do away with the constitution would be accused of sedition). The first amendment was written specifically to cover political speech, even and especially anti-government speech.
Also,note everyone who flew the rebel flag from star wars, during Trump wasn’t targeted for their anti-government speech, or labeled terrorists. No one wearing the Handmaiden Tale cosplay or Pussy Hats were targeted, despite their rhetoric that did include threats to violently overthrow the government. Everyone who said ‘punch a Nazi’ and then labeled anyone on the right Nazis wasn’t targeted by Trump or the FBI. But Obama and his DHS and FBI threatened to take pictures and keep records of people who attended Tea Party rallies in 2009, and now Biden and his FBI are targeting people wearing common patriotic gear, favored by small government proponents.
Yes, but if those things are noticed, then all my precious narratives start to fall apart!
British Security Slobs with too much time on their hands produced similar tripe a couple of elections ago. Peace symbols and anything vaguely libertarian were right up there with
raghead jihadistpious conservative and sensitive, concerned and aware redistributionist imagery. Repealing brutal laws that equivocate vice into crimes against imaginary and invisible victims has always reduced violent crime in the past.This just in, FBI is raiding Trump’s home in Florida. Most of the time, the people they pull this shit on can’t afford to litigate against them. They might just have bitten off more than they can chew.
-jcr
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/covid-data-the-ira-and-political
Good thing Reason Magazine got their preferred winner, Joe Biden. No more mean tweets, just weaponized Feds at your door.
I’m curious how they’re going to justify this raid tomorrow.
Probably the fact that Trump stole classified documents.
Not really concerned with the opinions of leftist trash such as yourself.
You lying maggot.
-jcr
R Mac, They’re probably going to try for a “both sides” angle.
Or they just won’t say anything at all.
Where is our Woodchipper flag? C’mon people!
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness… it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. – Thomas Jefferson
After 18 years of serving this country and defending her from foreign AND DOMESTIC ENEMIES you better BELIEVE I AM A THREAT! My DD214 doesn’t have an expiration date and I have given MORE than those morons in the White House, FBI, DOJ, and the rest of that soup and sandwich brand idiots in our government.
Wonder if any of those HYPOCRITES ever did a tour of duty in a combat zone and I am not talking about their momma’s house bathroom where all their S*** smells like Sippy Cup Joe’s Depends!
“Wonder if any of those HYPOCRITES ever did a tour of duty in a combat zone”
Used to be the norm for anyone wanting a career in politics to spend some time in the military. John Kerry, George Bush, Albert Gore, John Kennedy, Eisenhower, Nixon etc. These days, a degree in law is the ticket to a successful political career.
Correct
They’re definitely anti-capitalist