Both Democrats and Republicans Want To Break Up Big Tech. Consumers Would Pay the Price.
Government often proves to be biased against large, successful companies that legislators don't understand well but customers love.

Always beware of the name given to a piece of legislation. It rarely describes accurately the likely impact of enacting a bill. In fact, statutes often do the opposite of what their names suggest. Take Sen. Amy Klobuchar's (D–Minn.) proposed legislation named the American Innovation and Choice Online Act. While everyone likes more choice and innovation, this bill would hinder both as it imposes high costs on consumers. In fact, a more apt name for Klobuchar's bill would be the Anti-Consumer and Stagnation Act of 2022.
Born out of the recent eagerness to expand antitrust regulation, the bill would empower government bureaucrats at the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and the Department of Justice (DOJ) to bridle the economy's thriving technology sector with regulations and mandates aimed at making "big" companies smaller regardless of how well a "big" firm is serving consumers. The economics of this idea are all wrong.
The targets of these legislative efforts are some of the most successful companies in our nation's history, including Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon, and Microsoft. Klobuchar and company want to break these entrepreneurial successes into smaller companies, all without regard to the benefits consumers reap from vertical integration. Vertical integration is when a company owns multiples stages of production. In competing for customers, firms buy—or sell—different stages to achieve maximum possible efficiencies. To put this reality into perspective, popular services such as Amazon Prime and Google Maps are products of vertical integration and would be prohibited under the new legislation.
Let's look at some fundamentals. Nobel-laureate economist F.A. Hayek insightfully observed that "economic planning, regulation, and intervention pave the way to totalitarianism by building a power structure that will inevitably be seized by the most power-hungry and unscrupulous." Granting unelected bureaucrats expanded powers over the companies that drive economic growth is economically and politically dangerous. The risk is simply too great that government will abuse this power by compelling companies to bow to the whims of organized interest groups, including the administrative state itself. The subsequent suppression of decision-making based on profit and loss will result in inefficiency and stagnation.
You don't have to believe that the market produces perfect outcomes to understand that government can rarely outperform private enterprise. Political decisions aren't driven by any market signals, profit motive, or consumer preferences. These decisions are inherently political, suffer from a serious knowledge problem and are mostly untied to any accountability regimes when they fail. Government often proves to be biased against large, successful companies that provide new technology that legislators often don't understand well but consumers love. This is why government so often fails, and this policy is no exception.
Active antitrust intervention has support from elements of both parties, but for all the wrong reasons. Progressives push for intervention out of sheer distaste for free markets, generating an instinctive itch to subject companies to the power of government rather than to consumer preferences. Some nationalist conservatives, in contrast, are angry with a perceived discrimination by "Big Tech" against conservatives. These conservatives misinterpret their anger as sufficient reason to lash out at successful tech companies. Any elected official who favors small government and respects free markets should staunchly resist these ideas.
The cost to consumers from this bill would be devastating. An October 2021 study by NERA Economic Consulting estimates that such a proposal will cost consumers $300 billion because it subjects "online platforms and marketplaces to common carrier, structural separation, and line of business restrictions."
It's bad economic policy to empower federal bureaucrats to second-guess the market-tested decision-making processes of some of the most successful companies in history. Some in Congress are standing up to both parties by resisting their colleagues' temptation to second guess private-sector entrepreneurs. Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) wrote at Fox News that "these proposals to ostensibly cut the tech giants down to size would, instead, perpetuate the dominant position of these companies and deprive consumers of the technological innovation that only free-market competition can provide." Paul explained how the benefits of vertical integration and that of "win-win" competition allow companies to grow large if—and only if—a company "continuously rewards its consumers with superior products and innovations."
In fact, it is the lack of heavy-handed regulation in the U.S. tech sector that has resulted in unprecedented economic growth and higher standards of living for nearly all of us. We should be suspicious of those in Congress who claim they can do better by destroying what works well.
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What price? Require more space on your phone for multiple apps?
Yes, Marxists ALWAYS claim that there will be vast benefits and NO prices to pay, when Government Almighty micro-manages, punishes, and damned well near TAKE OVER private businesses! Ass long ass JesseBahnFuhrer gets to PUNISH-PUNISH-PUNISH-PUNISH-PUNISH those evil stockholders of FacePooooo, all will be just swell!
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I don’t know about that, but is there a way we could have SQRLSY put to death?
I wasn't sure about this until I saw what Rand Paul had to say. We can assume that the opposite is true.
You are so open minded it's astounding. Run along and play in traffic, tribalist.
I've been less than thrilled with Senator Paul's retreat from libertarian ideas, but that doesn't mean he's always wrong. Looks to me like in this particular case, he hit the nail right on the head.
Eat shit and die, lefty asshole.
Your faggotry is impressive, as is your stupidity.
Rand Paul wrote an op-ed on FOX titled "Anger at Big Tech no excuse to abandon free market". He's defending free markets, as any libertarian would do.
De Rugy: "Some nationalist conservatives, in contrast, are angry with a perceived discrimination by "Big Tech" against conservatives."
OK, but where's the statement about conservatives and libertarians being angry, about Big Tech censorship of their ideas at the request of the government? It's not a "perceived discrimination" as the evidence already shows, and it's fascism. Further, it's an anti-trust violation when they partner up to prevent new competitors. Finally, why censor messages without the decency to tell the sender they can't use their free platform for the sender's alleged purpose? Seems to me, they are afraid they'll lose users and revenue by being honest.
Who the fuck loves Facebook?
Not me! However, I DAMNED well love free-market capitalism over Government Almighty's Marxisms!
I pay (PAY! With MY money! I OWN!) for my own web site at Go-Daddy. I say some VERY sarcastic and un-politically-correct, intolerant things about cults like Scientology there (and Government Almighty as well). I am QUITE sure that a LOT of “tolerant” liberal-type folks at Google etc. would NOT be happy with the types of things I wrote! Yet, if you do a search-string “Scienfoology”, Google will take you STRAIGHT to MY web site, top hit! #1!
https://www.google.com/search?q=scienfoology&nfpr=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjPzZqf0dXsAhUCT6wKHez9DNwQvgUoAXoECDEQKg&biw=1920&bih=941
WHERE is your respect for property rights?! I learned to respect the property rights of others, before I was in the 1st grade! Didn’t your Momma raise you right?
(Love or hate FacePooo? Doesn't matter. THEIR property, THEIR rights!)
Do you deny that it is one of government's legitimate duties to prevent or break up monopolies?
I don't want to argue the point, but if that were true, it means government would have to prevent or break itself up, being a monopoly.
The only monopoly the government should have is on violence.
The biggest problem is these companies only remain as big as they have because once they got big, they hired lobbyists to lobby for regulations that led to regulatory capture. The government, via crony capitalism, (which isn't actually capitalism) creates these problems. The answer is to reevaluate all regulations and eliminate any that hinder competition, which would be the vast majority of them. I don't think we'll see that very soon. Especially not under the Big Guy.
More to the point, the government allowed them to get that big in the first place. Those sites are the best friend the FBI, CIA, and NSA ever had.
Facebook in particular is as big as it is specifically because of funding from CIA and DoD-connected proxies. It was just a shitty MySpace clone until it got angel investment from Peter Thiel and James Breyer, and then suddenly acquired a cutting edge user interface and data-mining capability that MySpace could have only dreamed of.
I agree. It's even a bigger problem then the government asking media corporations to censor libertarian and conservative ideas.
After all, if they couldn't pick winner/losers in commerce, they wouldn't be able to force them to censor what users want to say.
Vertical integration is not a good thing
Vertical integration may or may not be a good thing. A model that works in one industry may be wildly inappropriate for another.
Violating private property rights is not a good thing.
No, vertical integration is a good thing. The problem occurs when the integration, or even sheer market dominance is specifically wielded to reduce or eliminate competition. This behavior is a real threat to liberty. Even if it benefits some consumers the harm it does to those who otherwise would offer competition is real and a real reason why trust busting can be a legitimate exercise of government.
The difference between socialism and oligopoly is subtle at best. Especially so when elected representatives are so obviously on the payroll.
As far as fabulous creatures go, I find it easier to believe in unicorns.
Yeah, the bake-the-cake crowd arguing from "principles" ends up sounding self serving more than anything else.
Amy looks just like a MTF Trans. Is he/she/they in the closet?
/sarc
I was going to go with FTMTF Trans Detrans.
No, she just looks like she has a low IQ, which is because she probably does.
She went to Yale and U Chicago. She's no dummy.
You’d be surprised how dumb people at those institutions can be.
At this point who cares.
How about STOP SUBSIDIZING THEM with so-called 'research' grants and paid SPYING programs... (i.e. KNOCK OFF THE NATIONAL SOCIALISM pimping of them)..
If you yanked Gov from Big Tech all the B.S. one's would fall apart.
Wow, you said something sensible for once
Didn't know that Amy Klobuchar was both a D and an R.
Political tranny?
"Consumers Would Pay the Price."
Breaking up big tech is one thing I'm willing to pay for.
Would we even have smart phones today if MaBell had been left intact?
What is the difference between a government capturing private information on its citizens vs a corporation capturing private information on its customers? There isn't a difference, but libertarians think they can squint hard enough to see one.
"What is the difference between a government capturing private information on its citizens vs a corporation capturing private information on its customers?..."
Sarc or stupidity?
Government bad, muh private company good. That's about 85% of Reason magazine's libertarian philosophy. The rest is assex, open borders, narcotics and food trucks.
For starters: a corporation can't imprison me or take my stuff; I can sue a corporation for damages; corporations that don't provide value to their customers go out of business.
There are many other differences.
But it us OK for a private company to sell your information to the government so the government can take your stuff, put you in prison or shoot you dead if you resist too much. Government privatizing spying on citizens is just free market capitalism. I guess anyway.
Oh, and if you sue a corporation for damages you depend for redress on the same government that buys your information from corporations to take your stuff, put you in prison or shoot you if you doth protest too much. Good luck when business and government are in cahoots, which is the case for the US government and big tech.
Sure. What is not OK is for the government to buy it.
Again, the violation of individual rights and the source of authoritarianism is the government, not capitalism or private corporations.
We're discussing how government and the private sector ought to work, aren't we? The way government ought to work is that it doesn't spy on citizens, not even via purchasing information in the private market, that it doesn't subsidize private companies, and that the judicial branch actually functions.
The way the private sector ought to work is that it operates in a free market and that it obeys the law; that's all we ever require, and ever ought to require, of the private sector.
If you disagree, please state clearly what you think the proper role of government and the private sector ought to be.
Corporations do not show up at your house at 2 AM, break the door down and drag you off to jail.
Didn't La Suprema corte decree that corporations can buy elections like so much cabbage back about 2010? So the 2016 and 2020 elections scared the doodoo out of both halves of The Kleptocracy and their flailing in response is destroying the LP and 1A. Then why not exploit this panic as the entering wedge for new legislation to again let voters (as opposed to artificial persons) decide elections--which is what webwarez threaten to do anyway?
"Didn't La Suprema corte decree that corporations can buy elections like so much cabbage back about 2010?..."
No question here: abysmal stupidity from lefty shitpile.
I'm not aware of any such judgment, in 2010 or at any other time. Do you have any references?
What I am aware of is that, in 2010, SCOTUS rules that the government cannot silence a small non-profit organization that made a film critical of Hillary Clinton.
Government often proves to be biased against large, successful companies that legislators don't understand well but customers love.
Uh... good? I'm certainly not a fan of world-dominating government, but wasn't this the whole point of the federated Republic to oppose the crown and associated globe-dominating crony corporatism? If the precipitous ticket drop off of the new Thor movie is to be believed, it's not like Disney's got their fingers on the pulse of what customers want.
Disney's business is propagating propaganda, and its customers are not the moviegoers, for the most part.
Without the massive US government investment in the Internet, we would not have a single, unified global network. Companies like Google couldn't be "crawling the Internet". Companies like Facebook wouldn't be accessible from every cell phone and desktop.
Whether that would be a better or worse world than the one we live in, I don't know. But the fact remains that Big Tech is a creation of government, a result of government regulation and regulatory capture, not a result of private companies operating in a free market.
If you want a free market, there has to be competition. The weakening of anti-trust enforcement over the last few decades (dating to the Reagan administration), has led to enormous consolidation into a small number of massive corporations in virtually every industry. How many choices do you have for high speed internet access providers for your home? Operating systems for desktop and laptop computers? Smart phones? How many different hospitals are within a 30 mile radius of where you live?
To pretend that consumers "love" the monopolies that they have little choice but to buy from is not something I would expect a free market advocate to do.
Anti-trust enforcement has never been effective. The reason so many sectors are dominated by monopolies or oligopolies is government subsidies, barriers to entry, and regulatory capture.
Again, all of those are not the result of lack of anti-trust enforcement, but instead the result of government actively creating and supporting monopolies.
Anti-trust enforcement has never been effective.
To what extent are any failures of enforcement due to the very regulatory capture that you mention? The influence of big business is on the politicians responsible for setting enforcement policy, and big businesses support legal scholarship and think tanks that can influence judges interpreting the law (with some of those scholars becoming judges that will interpret the law). If government providing subsidies, artificial barriers to entry, and being influenced in its regulation by special interests is all contrary to free market principles and consumer benefit, what do you propose we all do about it?
To a significant extent. In addition, government simply lacks the information to be able to intervene effectively in the market.
The solution is to shrink government to a few percent of GDP and limit it to its explicitly delegated powers. That's not a solution "we all" can adopt in the US anymore, given the current state of the culture and education of American citizens. So, I propose you get used to hard times ahead.
The solution is to shrink government to a few percent of GDP and limit it to its explicitly delegated powers.
A few percent of GDP? Do you know what it is right now as a share of GDP? And where the U.S. ranks relative to other wealthy nations in that regard? And how would regulating (national or multinational) businesses for anti-competitive behavior not be one of Congress's explicitly delegated powers?
That's not a solution "we all" can adopt in the US anymore, given the current state of the culture and education of American citizens. So, I propose you get used to hard times ahead.
This is something that I've seen someone make a note of before, when talking about the political right's talking points. "You should be really outraged about this, but there's nothing you can do about it. (Except to not vote for the other guys, since they'd make it even worse. *hint, hint*)."
If you care enough about a problem to argue about it on the internet, then you should also want to do something effective about it. Getting right and right-leaning voters to be angry about things in politics, but without offering any effective solutions, is something that the right-wing media has perfected as a way to drive ratings, clicks, and views. In the modern world, people aren't getting the kind of good, healthy socialization that they need. And being active in their community in a way that helps people and simply to be engaged with what is going on, is a good way to get that. But as people feel less and less connected to their surroundings, 'news' that plays to our emotions draws in people looking for something to fill that void of engagement. For instance, social media algorithms specifically promote things that get people to engage with them. And getting angry and outraged will definitely do that.
About 45%. You didn't know that?
About in the middle of shitty, failing Western social welfare states.
Well, perhaps because it is not actually "explicitly delegated"?
I mean, which article delegates this power to Congress?
Of course, even if it were a delegated power, it wouldn't matter: Congress and government is the source of monopolies and crony-capitalism, not the antidote.
Where am I "angry and outraged"? The US has lived beyond its means for half a century, and more and more Americans have become ignorant, uncompetitive, greedy, and entitled. The bill is due for that sooner or later, with a massive decline in average US wealth and power relative to the rest of the world inevitable. Why would I be "angry" over that?
I do! And the thing to do is for Americans to be aware that there are hard times ahead, to understand that government isn't going to be able to help them, and to learn the skills to survive hard times. Americans need to understand that, no matter how bad government or the economy are, they are always responsible for their own lives and nobody will bail them out.
That, incidentally, also creates the kind of culture and society that will eventually allow the country as a whole to recover, in probably about half a century.
About 45%. You didn't know that?
In 2020, yes. The source I found quickly only had 2019 data for other countries, though. The COVID spending boosted it by about 10% for the U.S. I didn't see what other countries did, spending-wise, in response to COVID. If you look at 2019 spending for the U.S. compared to other countries, it would be in the bottom third. No OECD country has government spending less than 24% of their GDP (Ireland), so when you said "a few percent", I was kind of struck by that.
I mean, which article delegates this power to Congress?
Article I, Section 8: Congress has the power to regulate interstate commerce. That's why I specified national and international companies.
Where am I "angry and outraged"? The US has lived beyond its means for half a century, and more and more Americans have become ignorant, uncompetitive, greedy, and entitled. The bill is due for that sooner or later, with a massive decline in average US wealth and power relative to the rest of the world inevitable. Why would I be "angry" over that?
I don't know, maybe you aren't angry, despite saying that too many Americans are "ignorant, uncompetitive, greedy, and entitled." But I stand by my assertion that the right, particularly political and supposed news media, has been "angry" for quite some time. And they seem to really enjoy being angry. It is what motivates their base to vote for Republicans, consume conservative media, and support anti-democratic political figures and policies. What it doesn't do is anything that would actually solve any real problems. Telling people to learn to be responsible for themselves is literally doing nothing more than telling them that should help themselves. How does that help them deal with pollution? Get clean water? Buy food that is safe to eat? Get a job? Buy a house? It is nothing more than a platitude.
I stand by my assertion that the left, and the great majority of the media, have been greedy, unproductive and jealous of those who do produce something for quite some time, and they are ALWAYS trying to stick their hands in my pockets.
Further, some like you, support murder of the unarmed to keep them from doing something in the future which you might not like.
Fuck off and die, lefty asshole.
US government spending as percentage of GDP was around 5% pre-WWII during the periods of most rapid growth in prosperity.
The interstate commerce clause does not explicitly (or implicitly) delegate the power of monopoly enforcement against private companies to the federal government, though progressive courts would likely abuse it that way. It doesn’t change the fact that such enforcement itself just becomes a tool for rent seeking and corruption.
It is nothing of the sort. How do you think people survived in socialist hell holes in the past? Countries in which the state was responsible for massive pollution, environmental destruction, unsafe food, dangerous healthcare, and economic destruction? Yes, you can learn skills to cope with that.
There are many forms of democracy. The form you embrace is obviously of the “dictatorship of the proletariat” kind. I’m glad people are standing up to that, though it’s probably not going to make a difference at this point. You will likely remain a totalitarian to your dying days, just like half of the people in communist nations.
There are many forms of democracy. The form you embrace is obviously of the “dictatorship of the proletariat” kind. I’m glad people are standing up to that, though it’s probably not going to make a difference at this point. You will likely remain a totalitarian to your dying days, just like half of the people in communist nations.
I'm a totalitarian, eh? There is so much false dichotomy in your thinking and argumentation that I wonder if you literally see the world in only black and white. Apparently, there is nothing in between some imagined libertarian utopia you want, where the U.S. goes back to only spending 5% of its GDP on government, and communist "hell holes" like the Soviet Union, Cuba, China, etc. By the way, that "pre-WWII" economy included a rather large bump in the road to prosperity, didn't it? And you still didn't address why every developed country on Earth has government spending 5-10 times that level. I guess they are all socialist hell holes. People all over the world just don't understand how much better off they would be in a virtually government-free utopia.
The interstate commerce clause does not explicitly (or implicitly) delegate the power of monopoly enforcement against private companies to the federal government...
In your thinking, the Constitution would need to use the word "monopoly" (which may not have been something used by early economic thinkers of the time) in order to have the power to regulate against them. Regulating interstate commerce not at least implying the ability for government to step in when a business gets so big as to wield virtually complete control over an entire industry is absurd. We would have needed a thousand amendments by now if the Constitution was ever interpreted that narrowly.
It is nothing of the sort. How do you think people survived in socialist hell holes in the past? Countries in which the state was responsible for massive pollution, environmental destruction, unsafe food, dangerous healthcare, and economic destruction? Yes, you can learn skills to cope with that.
Like what? What skills help you cope with those things when government either doesn't or is part of the problem? That is why I called your suggestion a platitude. It presents itself as advice, but is practically meaningless since it doesn't actually offer anything useful.
This is the lefty shitpile who justifies murder as a preventative if it might keep someone from doing what this asshole doesn't like:
"JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
I've posted this often enough; does no one else find murder an incorrect response to some one crawling through a window?
Why is it that the fucking lefty asshole Jason is not called on his justification of murder?
Eat shit and die, lefty pile of shit. Lefty assholes like you believe what you posted; those of us who have read history point out that you are full of shit.
Fuck off and die, lefty assjole.
Reason has a new economic theory, competition raises prices.
I remember the same gloom and doom predictions when they broke up Bell telephone.
I wasn't sure around this pending I saw what Rand Paul had to approximately. We can undertake that the opposite is correct.