Brickbat: No Need for Speed

The European Union has mandated that new cars be equipped with anti-speeding technology. They say that, for now, drivers will be able to override the technology. The system will calculate the speed limit based on data from the car's navigation system or from traffic sign recognition technology and either automatically slow the car down or give the driver some sort of warning, such as a chime.

Comments

[Pebar]

overriding controls will cause more accidents. Good job, government

[mad.casual]

Automated cars will slow down automatically and, just like automated trains, unautomated vehicles on the same path will just have to deal with the consequences.

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[Fist of Etiquette]

Unlike the US, Eurotrash governments don't rely on traffic fines to meet their budgets?

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

No, they are more upfront about confiscating larger percentages of GDP and property.

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[kcuch]

for now, drivers will be able to override the technology

Spiral development toward total govt control of public autonomous transportation. If you are approved for transport you may proceed to where your benevolent betters want you to be.

[SQRLSY One]

Der TrumpfenFuhrer will allow you to proceed to "Team R" voting stations, but NOT to ANY other type of approved voting station!

(Walking of bicycling only, to those other voting stations. We'll still have "democracy".)

[Jerry B.]

Oh, come on. Only people driving pre-emissions control vehicles will be able to travel to Trump-authorized polling places, burning copious amounts of hydrocarbons, and spouting greenhouse gasses and particulates. And no mufflers, with the stereo turned to 11 playing country music.

[Don't look at me!]

You forgot the bald tires and rusty fenders.

[mad.casual]

Also, whether the EU realizes it or not until the actual combustion is taking place in silico, and maybe not even then, the technology will *always* be able to be overridden. Maybe not legally able, but able.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Why do these progressive utopian visions always center on government control?

[Nachtwaechter Staater]

Because Progs.

[mpercy]

My uncle has a country place
That no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the Motor Law
And on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the turbine freight
To far outside the wire
Where my white-haired uncle waits
...
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty-odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream
...
I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better, vanished time
We fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime

[Billy Bones]

+1 Rush

[Longtobefree]

And economists are unable to explain the rising cost of used cars.

[kcuch]

Recall how Clunkers for Taxmoney cleared inventory of home reparable cars. Like ghost guns, pre-electronic cars will become contraband.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Can I claim I lost my 911 in a boating accident?

[Jerryskids]

What do I care about new cars? I've got a red barchetta.

[cgr2727]

Fuck the motor-law!

[Duke of URL]

Sammy Hagar hardest hit.

[Illocust]

So they are doing this the stupid way, instead of just determining the highest speed limit in the country and putting a limiter that won't go above that. Well if bureaucrats weren't stupid they wouldn't be bureaucrats.

[TJJ2000]

Welcome to the Nazi(National Socialist)-Car company...
Is there anything the Nazi's don't OWN?
Gov-Guns at every corner of life..

What will stop monopolized Gov-Gun-Oppressive Power?

[Sometimes a Great Notion]

The T-1000 approves.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

What will happen when the automated speed limiter misinterprets the speed limit sign and/or data? Who gets the ticket if driving too fast, who gets the blame if an incorrect abrupt slowdown causes an accident? What protection is there against someone re-marking speed limit signs or just knocking them down If an accident takes out a sign, what happens until it is replaced?

A candidate for a future "The Best of Intentions" episode.

[ducksalad]

I suppose under the precautionary principle, if the system can't get accurate speed limit data it needs to stop the car completely.

[mad.casual]

You laugh but this was my point about trains above. A section of MBTA (I think) track went dark. The trains were programmed to power-down and coast to a stop. Some of the trains were towards the end of the dark region, coasted back onto the grid and regained power. Not all of them did. The system didn't take the mass of the cars or cars and passengers into account so when a larger train entered the dark section, it hit a smaller train that was sitting on the tracks.

[ducksalad]

Well (they'll say), that just shows that we need to make ALL the cars have it as a condition of being on the road.

Yeah, the PTC (positive train control) system needs to be on all trains or no trains for a particular track.

[mad.casual]

By one very valid conception, it was on all the trains on a particular track. The problem was the system was so poorly thought out that it didn't keep track of trains going into or coming out of dark regions, didn't take into account varying masses and coasting distances of trains, etc. And this is on a rail, where all the trains are owned and maintained by the same fleet of top-down managed operators.

Is the vehicle's speed control system going to know whether you're doing 100 kph in a 2000 kg vehicle or 100 kph in a 2000 kg vehicle towing 5000 kg of stuff? Is it going to know if you're going downhill with your 5000 kg of stuff? Is it going to know that the car in front of you is going 20 kph under the speed limit? Is it going to know the distance you're traveling downhill or the condition of your brakes? I think we all have a pretty good idea of the answer(s).

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Today, the feds will control your car to restrict the speed you can drive. Tomorrow, the feds will control your car to restrict the places you can drive. Next week, the feds will control who can use your car.

All for your own good, of course.

[Brandybuck]

Read the story. It's Europe, not Montana.

[Earth-based Human Skeptic]

Piss off.

[Foo_dd]

no way one government ever copies the unjust power grab that another succeeds at?

[Brandybuck]

True, but if we're going to shit our collective pants every time some numbnut country passes some numbnut law, we might as well forego the wearing of pants.

Life's too short, I'm going to limit my pants shitting to inside our national borders.

[mad.casual]

Pretty sure telling people which side of which border they can and can't shit their pants in is racist.

[Nachtwaechter Staater]

What starts in Europe, Progs ALWAYS attempt to implement here.

See: Antifa, GND, etc.

[ducksalad]

Prediction for 2032: After the government mandates thumbprint readers in cars, there'll be a wave of gruesome crimes with four-fingered victims.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Don't tell me you're one of the heretics who counts thumbs as fingers!

[ducksalad]

Worse than that. I live and work with a lot of people who are ESL and their first language doesn't distinguish toes from fingers. They'll say "foot fingers" and I've fallen into the habit myself.

[D-Pizzle]

Spanish does the same thing basically. hand digits vs. foot digits.

[Brandybuck]

Just a chime? I usually get a siren complete with lights.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

We need a system that forces drivers in the left lane of a highway to go at least as fast as the posted speed limit.

[mad.casual]

No, speed limit + 10. The other lanes are for driving the speed limit, the left lane is passing. You're going to kill lots and lots of people if you limit the left-lane of a two-lane highway to the speed limit.

[MatthewSlyfield]

In my state (Wisconsin), the statement "the left lane is passing" is not true. On a multi-lane highway, all lanes are for normal traffic and the same speed limits apply to all lanes, and there is no lane reserved exclusively for passing.

[Nachtwaechter Staater]

Backasswards CheeseHeads ...

[mad.casual]

They really are just abjectly retarded about driving:

346.07  Overtaking and passing on the left. The following rules govern the overtaking and passing of vehicles proceeding in the same direction, subject to those limitations, exceptions and special rules stated in ss. 346.075 (2) and 346.08 to 346.11:
(2) The operator of a vehicle overtaking another vehicle proceeding in the same direction shall pass to the left thereof at a safe distance and shall not again drive to the right side of the roadway until safely clear of the overtaken vehicle.
(3) Except when overtaking and passing on the right is permitted, the operator of an overtaken vehicle shall give way to the right in favor of the overtaking vehicle and shall not increase the speed of the vehicle until completely passed by the overtaking vehicle.
History: 1971 c. 208; 1985 a. 301 s. 4; 1991 a. 316; 1997 a. 32; 2013 a. 365.
...
346.59  Minimum speed regulation.
(1)  No person shall drive a motor vehicle at a speed so slow as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or is necessary to comply with the law.
(2) The operator of a vehicle moving at a speed so slow as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic shall, if practicable, yield the roadway to an overtaking vehicle and shall move at a reasonably increased speed or yield the roadway to overtaking vehicles when directed to do so by a traffic officer.
History: 1977 c. 100; 2013 a. 365.

Note that 346.07 doesn't stipulate a ticketable offense while 346.59 does.

At least people out in SD, MT, or rural KY or WV have the excuse of being surprised to see someone in their rearview mirror or three cars on the road at the same time. The Cheeseheads are just licensed idiots./FID rant

[mad.casual]

They really are just abjectly retarded about driving

And I mean that in the most earnest possible way. Regardless of the law, the only reason you would drive all three lanes at the same speed is if you're retarded.

And, as I mentioned, I'm fairly certain I've passed in the left-hand lane of a two-lane road (County Road HH? XX? Fuck if I know) in WI. 100% sure the line was dotted when I did it.

[Bubba Jones]

I've had cars with both GPS-based speed limit displays and sign recognition.

Volvo's sign-recognition seemed more accurate than Ford's GPS system. But it doesn't know how to interpret school zones or work zones where the speed limit changes during the day.

Apple and Google seem to have a more accurate speed limit map.

[Bramblyspam]

Within the next decade or two, fully self-driving cars will become commonplace. What will then happen to the traffic cops?

I have a sneaky feeling they'll find some way of remaining employed.

On the bright side, I expect that once self-driving tech is perfected and human-driven cars go the way of the Model T Ford, cars will be traveling significantly faster than today's speed limits.

[mad.casual]

On the bright side, I expect that once self-driving tech is perfected and human-driven cars go the way of the Model T Ford, cars will be traveling significantly faster than today's speed limits.

Why? For the vast majority of driving, human reaction times aren't the limiting factor, comfort is. Cars *could* break on par with human response times. No one would ride in them and those that do would come out bruised. Just like with normal speeding, the self-driving cars might shave minutes or even tens of minutes off of hours-long commutes along open highways, but any savings on your daily commute is likely going to be minutes per week at best. Maybe/probably even costing time depending on how the smart cars interpret "Speed Limit XX When Workers Are Present" construction signs.

You sound like the Reason contributor who said that with the adoption of smart cars, we'll need fewer square feet of asphalt for commuting and parking.

[mad.casual]

break

*sigh*... brake

[Claptrap]

Yeah, I always found this line of reasoning fanciful. More likely the end result of centrally managed robot cars is going to be me passing them on the right while fuming about what awful drivers they are. Liability concerns alone will incentivize them to drive like grandmothers on their way to church.

[mad.casual]

Maybe somewhat predictably, the unbridled optimism bugs me. I, obviously don't mind optimism, but when it broaches on claims that ignore reality, it bugs me. Self-driving cars will make some things better, but claims that they'll take halve the amount of road space we use or halve commute times are wildly optimistic and being put forth by people who, seemingly, have never actually tried to make or use a vehicle that actually uses half the amount of road space or dealt with the issue of cutting commute times in half... or even considered the perils of both. It's hyper-reductionism run amok, the idea that the scientific principles (change one variable at a time), blindly applied, solve everything and the same reductionist principles that got us where we are will always get us where we want/need to go.

[MatthewSlyfield]

"Within the next decade or two, fully self-driving cars will become commonplace. What will then happen to the traffic cops?"

As government employees, they will continue to be paid for doing nothing.

[Claptrap]

I doubt this sort of thing would fly here. Even New Jersey hates speed cameras, and this sort of diktat is just a natural extension of the speed camera mindset.

[Nachtwaechter Staater]

BIG BROTHER SEZ: SLOW DOWN, KOMMERADEN!

[Longtobefree]

The fascists will ban cars before this technology can be fully developed.