The Founders Loved Jury Trials. Almost No One Gets One Anymore.
John Adams called jury trials part of the "heart and lungs of liberty." Today, defendants are often punished for exercising that very right.

What is the Sixth Amendment?
You wouldn't be blamed for having to consult Google to answer that question. The Founders are rolling in their graves anyway.
It's the right to a trial by jury, and it's one that society has all but disposed of—despite the Framers' insistence that it be included in the Bill of Rights as one of the primary bulwarks against government tyranny.
They didn't exactly mince words. "Representative government and trial by jury are the heart and lungs of liberty," wrote John Adams. "Without them we have no fortification against being ridden like horses, fleeced like sheep, worked like cattle, and fed and clothed like swine and hogs."
One wonders what animalistic metaphors Adams would conjure today if he could see the U.S. criminal justice system in motion: one in which about 97 percent of trials are resolved without juries, devoid of the sacrosanct lifeblood that keeps human liberty from death by suffocation.
That tool has been supplanted by the plea bargain. In popular culture, that's widely seen as advantageous to defendants. In reality, it's been disastrous. It epitomizes government coercion. It epitomizes what the Founders warned against.
That's because the places where we're accustomed to seeing the criminal legal system play out—on shows like Law and Order: Special Victims Unit—can't and don't account for how plea "deals" often work in practice. The bulk of a prosecutor's job is not spent in the hallowed halls of a courtroom participating in a high-stakes battle over someone's liberty, all while journalists wait in the wings to capture the victor's speech on marble steps. It's spent in backrooms, with district attorneys "charge-stacking," or filing multiple criminal charges against someone for the same offense, calculating a grisly potential prison sentence, and offering to make some of that go away—so long as the defendant in question does not exercise his or her constitutional right to a trial by jury.
If they refuse, then they will risk a substantially higher time behind bars, not because a prosecutor views it as necessary for public safety but because he or she dared to inconvenience them with a trial. After all, what the defendant is accused of didn't change. But trials are expensive. And the government can never be sure when it will win, so better to avoid them where possible.
That latter part—the uncertainty—is supposed to be the point. It's true that many criminal defendants are guilty. It's also true that some are innocent and have been forced to pay with their liberty anyway. A person who is not guilty likely wants to go to trial. But why risk a decade behind bars for insisting on your Sixth Amendment right when you could be out in two or three?
Some have rolled those dice, and with mixed results. Consider the case of Brandon Bostian, an Amtrak engineer who accidentally crashed a train in 2015 when he said he was distracted by radio reports of other trains being pelted with bullets or rocks. Prosecutors charged him with causing a catastrophe, eight counts of involuntary manslaughter, and over 200 counts of reckless endangerment.
As the trial grew nearer, prosecutors came around with a deal: Plead "no contest" to 9 counts, or go to trial and die in prison.
So, in March, he went to trial, where he was acquitted on all charges in 90 minutes.
Nothing encapsulated the ridiculousness of Bostian's position better than the jurist overseeing the case. In declining the deal, he was possibly subjecting himself to "more than a lifetime of incarceration," said Judge Barbara McDermott. That's not because the accusations against Bostian had been altered or were in dispute, and it's not because the prosecutors finally saw the light. Those attorneys admitted with their offered bargain that Bostian need not serve a lifetime in prison. But that excess punishment was left in place to strong-arm him out of exercising his constitutional right to a jury trial so that the government would not have to prove why Bostian's liberty should be taken away—perhaps because their case was frankly awful. And yet I still can't say I would have had the guts to do the same, had I been in Bostian's shoes.
It's a creative way to subvert the Constitution, emboldened by local legislatures with a slew of tough-on-crime charging and sentencing laws. In some ways, it could very well be illegal. The Maricopa County Attorney's Office, for example, has made a habit of telling defendants in fine print that they will spend more time in prison if they merely ask to attend a probable cause hearing or see the evidence against them. Such was the case with Levonta Barker, who was offered a 7.5-year plea deal for aggravated assault and kidnapping with the stipulation that prosecutors would ratchet it up should he want to learn more about the state's evidence.
Which was important, because he was innocent—something that should have been immediately apparent, as he did not match the description of the perpetrator rendered in the police department's own reports. He would go on to spend a month in jail before his lawyer was able to secure his release, though it's understandable why someone in Barker's position may have taken the deal. When 7.5 years is your minimum, it's best not to bargain your life away.
Alleged criminal defendants aren't the most popular people in society. But the Constitution isn't meant to protect the popular, as they typically don't need protecting. It's meant to provide safeguards for those who the government would otherwise cast aside: the alleged killer, voter fraudster, Capitol rioter.
After all, the Founders were radicals. So on this Fourth of July, remember this: that their radicalism didn't begin and end with the First and Second Amendments.
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Think about it. If innocent defendants thought they would be tried fairly, they would all go to trial. Why don't they? Because they believe the system is rigged against them.
In other words, the reputation for unfairness works in the prosecutors' favor, because it generates more plea bargains. Quite a country we live in.
The costs foe trial due to rules, litigation, discovery. Etc have gotten so onerous that often fines with no jail time is cheaper.
Not sure how to go about it, but some compensation for prosecutors overreaching needs to happen.
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Let me tell you, I accepted a plea in 2012. Five years. Or a trial, lose, 20 years. So, 319,999,999 people are made "whole" by my sentence, but one guy is inconvenienced, add another 15. But more importantly, when one pleads, the prosecution reads into the record your crimes. Let's say there are embellishments and a little hyperbole. While reading my "crimes" into the record, I actually learned over to my attorney and whispered "this guy sounds like an asshole,(meaning the statement) when's he reading mine?" My attorney stifled a guffaw.
The point being, nothing is said in your defense. If anyone wants to look you up, all they get is one lopsided side of the story. In a jury trial, even if found guilty, at least there is some evidence in the record.
Make no mistake, the justice department is about winning, not justice. Without admitting anything, I will tell you I am a productive member of society, both before and after, and was certainly disenchanted with our criminal justice system.
I've seen so many cops and prosecutors straight up lie in court. Not subtle or clever lies, framing, word-smithing, or lies of omission. Obvious and clear lies. Lies that casual observers could easily spot.
One solution is (a) do not allow dropping charges, (2) all acquitted charges subtract from the sentence for the convicted charges, and (3) a negative balance comes out of the prosecutor's budget and goes straight to the guy on trial.
> all acquitted charges subtract from the sentence for the convicted charges...
An interesting idea! This is the first time I saw it.
I have tons of similar ideas, all coming from some sort of principle that things must be balanced. Authority and accountability, for instance. If you have the authority to do something, you need to be held similarly accountable when you abuse or misuse that authority.
Warrants are another. I think you should be able to write and execute any warrant related to a case -- but if you lose the case, your warrant targets should get to execute all those warrants on you, at a time of their choosing anytime within the next year. Arrest somebody at work for maximum humiliation? They get to do the same to you. Search their underwear drawer for a stolen car? They get to do the same to you.
And so on.
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How about the English system of "Loser Pays" applied to ALL trials, including and especially criminal trials?
I think that is a terrific idea too. Stop this overcharging bullshit that is pulled incessantly.
a huge contributor to the problem is the fact that you can be convicted based only on circumstantial evidence. this is of course no evidence at all. i believe that no one should be allowed to be convicted on circumstantial evidence. if i were on a jury there is no way i would convict based in circumstantial evidence. so many bogus cases would never proceed if this were the law.
So three counts, each carrying 30 year sentences - drop 2 counts in exchange for pleading guilty and give him credit for 60 years and convict on the 30 years so the perp walks? Does he get to bank the left over 30 years for his next crime? So (a) defund police (b) no bail (c) no jail (d) 30 years in the bank for the next caper! Perfect!
Don't elect or re-elect jack ass prosecutors that overcharge.
Lol...
https://www.salon.com/2022/07/03/how-joe-biden-is-like-americas-founding-fathers--and-no-im-not-kidding/
From the start of his administration, he has pushed for an ambitious economic program: expanded access to health care, major investments in job creation, financial assistance to parents, accelerated development of green energy and other steps to address climate change..
To this point, the political fates have cursed Joe Biden with the same bad luck that afflicted Washington, Jefferson, Hamilton and other founding fathers at their most ambitious but least effective — but without granting him anything close to their storied accomplishments or historical legacy.
From the start of his administration, he has pushed for an ambitious economic program: expanded access to health care, major investments in job creation, financial assistance to parents, accelerated development of green energy and other steps to address climate change..
Just like Thomas Jefferson, right? A huge fan of expansive and invasive government.
Actually more like Madison. He was the one who wanted the federal government to pay for "internal improvements" i.e. infrastructure.
sorry, meant Hamilton
Improvements meant the proceeds of extortionate tariffs to finance native genocide, installing settlers on that land, pouring rail and steamboat traffic out of Chicago to carry food to NY and manufactures to fil ship holds in New Orleans.
Well he's old enough to be a founding father.
Also, Salon is published by the Democrats, for Democrats, so unsurprising it would take that stance. It's like a GOPe newsletter saying how tough and manly Cocaine Mitch is.
And who do we see the most links to salon from here.
Atlantic has convinced stupid dems that if they read that rag that they are intelligent. Quite the marketing gimmick.
Hey, just like Reason!
Unrelated:
https://www.salon.com/2018/11/17/why-comments-sections-must-die/
No surprises that the Democrats hate speech.
I mean, my point was that these salon writers are terrified of feedback, but still want to push insane positions, like comparing fucking Joe Biden to George Washington. It's cowardice. Push your propaganda but avoid any criticism for being a politically-motivated hack.
My very progressive democrat friend just told me at our BBQ last night that:
a) Biden is a failure / dinosaur
b) Kamala is worse
c) they don't have anyone else to run or any record / purpose to run on.
This is the thing that mystifies me. How can two political parties be completely out of people? In 2016 AND 2020, either party could have sent an intern out onto the street blindfolded, spun him around ten times, and made the first person they pointed at the party candidate and won handily. It's making be begin to believe that instead of electing leaders they should simply be chosen at complete random, by lottery.
I think that the Republicans have several people not named Trump that could do well in the polls and govern somewhat sanely.
The Democrats are lost in the woods. They don't have anyone even a little bit compelling.
Agree with you about the last 2 presidential election cycles though. What a shit show. One of my neighbors had an election sign in their front yard that said 'Any Capable Adult 2020' - and we didn't get that option.
Stop being sexist against AOC.
Progressives NEVER loved Biden. They only voted for him to get rid of Trump.
83 million votes can't be all wrong, right?
Lefty Jeffy lives by the narratives he’s told.
I was out to dinner with a buddy who is not an annoyingly woke dem, but he had some bad TDS and is a little hippie-dippie granola. But he's also a very intelligent person overall.
His analysis was "Biden is a disaster, Kamala is clueless and has ZERO chance of winning in an election. I lived through Carter, and this feels so much like when the country was completely disgusted with his economy, and I just dont see a world where a democrat has any chance next election. I just hope a reasonable republican runs, because I feel like they are going to run away with it."
This guy 1000% would not vote for Trump in 2024, but I am almost certain he would vote for Desantis. I really hope that is what happens
He's been to Delaware?
Or just outlaw plea bargains; every case goes to trial.
Kind of hard on the jury pool, but I'll bet a lot of bullshit charges never get filed.
The justice system is the number one problem for both the US and Canada right now. It is obviously broken at every level. It's so corrupt and unfair and 90% of the time you need to be a multimillionaire to afford justice.
Not just criminal either, but all aspects.
I don't know how to change it though as most solutions seem packed with unintended consequences.
Here's court video of a man’s own public defender conspiring with the judge and prosecutor to imprison him unjustly, because he refused to take a plea.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVPCgNMOOP0
It's stomach churning.
I mean we are currently living through single party show trials to go after political opponents and basically silence or light applause from a libertarian website. Things they used to deride in other countries like Venezuela and Iran.
It is amazing to watch. The full force of government going after people instead of crimes.
Yes we know Jesse. It's only a problem when it happens to your tribe.
And Jeff once again wanders in to prove he is a leftist shit. Never change buddy.
Happily clap along to government abuses like you have been for years.
Here is what I think is happening here, Jesse.
Prior to Jan. 6, you and most of the right-wingers complaining about the Jan. 6 rioters, had no real intimate knowledge about the criminal justice system in this country. You simply assumed that criminal defendants were detained in reasonable conditions, and received speedy impartial trials, since that is what you had been told your whole life. So when you started hearing about what the Jan. 6 rioters were going through, instead of challenging your assumptions of what the criminal justice system is really like, you instead assumed that they were being specifically mistreated because of their politics. It could not possibly be that they were being treated poorly because *that's how they are all treated* - nope, it had to be because of their politics. So that leads you and others to declare them to be "political prisoners".
You never really gave a shit about government abuse of prisoners when it wasn't your tribe in trouble. And even now, you will not acknowledge the *systemic* abuse, you will only use their cases to blame Democrats instead of understanding the rot within the system itself.
Jeff. Is your last name McCaskill?
Tom Elliott
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McCaskill: "We’re going to start a new family tradition in my family; on the Fourth of July and every Fourth of July going forward, we’re going to watch" video of the Capitol riot
"The justice system is the number one problem for both the US"
No.
Not even close.
There's lots of terrible stuff, but the corrupt justice system has the greatest current impact on every individual.
Really?
How do you figure that?
If we count the war on drugs as a justice problem, it's AT LEAST close.
How do you not?
A corrupt justice system is the enabler of every problem from forever wars, shitty race relations, political corruption, ad nauseam.
No point pruning the deep state branches while its roots are rotten.
That's a hell of a reach there.
The vast majority of people don't deal with the justice system much at all in their lives.
You're simply attributing all ills to it.
Everyone deals with it in some form or another. And yeah, a lot of those ills wouldn't be able to exist if the justice system wasn't corrupt. Like I said, it's the root.
NPR decides this is the year to cancel reading the declaration of independence, a 30 year tradition.
Leila Fadel
@LeilaFadel
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This July 4th we break with tradition. Instead of a reading of the Declaration of Independence @NPRinskeep examines what equality means and has meant in this document. Important segment about our past and future...produced by @marcarivers and @bgordemer
Because current thing is intolerable.
Lawyer friend tells me the high number of plea deals taken is because the accused knows damn well he is guilty and thinks he is getting off lighter by taking a deal.
The problem is the combinations of sentencing and the combined years involved. A simple misdemeanor can by grown to 5 years when the intention is to be under a year, maybe. But prosecutors throw everything to make fighting a charge onerous.
And the worst part is assholes like the red suv Christmas day killer get pro bono representation.
Sure, we'd hope that most accused are actually guilty, just as we'd hope most people aren't actually criminals.
Juries should be there to do justice in those few cases where they have an innocent defendant. But Reason itself has examples of innocent people making coerced pleas.
Reason itself has also promoted and defended that coercion.
Though what I’m seeing a lot of lately is Reason defending people who are guilty as fuck, but because their bullet wasn’t the one which killed the victim, Reason pretends it’s injustice that they’re convicted of murder.
Example?
There's the woman who was driving gang members for a gang she totally had stopped being a member of, when they committed a drive-by shooting from her car. Fiona Harrington cries that she's being deported for a murder she didn't commit.
Then there's the guy who also was involved in a drive-by shooting and claims he had no idea who his passenger was or what he was doing. He was charged for felony murder as an accessory and Reason pretends it's some scandal that police tried to go to trial without the gun in evidence, up until they finally matched it.
Then there's Richard Moore, who got into a fight with a clerk at a convenience store he was robbing and "the gun just went off."
There's the woman who was driving gang members for a gang she totally had stopped being a member of, when they committed a drive-by shooting from her car. Fiona Harrington cries that she's being deported for a murder she didn't commit.
Did she pull the trigger or didn't she?
Believe it or not, "guilty as fuck" is not an actual crime.
I don't think anyone is seriously claiming that most of the people who are written up here as victims of the criminal justice system are saints or totally innocent. Only that, while they may be guilty of something, they are not guilty of the specific crime for which they were charged, and/or they are being mistreated or overly punished for whatever crime they are guilty of.
Another thought is that service on grand juries and juries provides citizens with experience in self-government, beyond going to the polls every couple of years to check a box next to the name of the person who disgusts them less.
Jury service is still in theory compulsory, so I guess it's not pure libertarianism. But with the plague of plea bargains, most criminal cases are decided without direct input from the public, which I believe is to the detriment of liberty.
I'm pretty sure juries are not allowed to know the punishment for the crimes they are deciding. The purpose of that is to hide from the jury the fact that the laws themselves are unjust with punishments that do not fit the crime. If they did then they might engage in jury nullification. Hiding sentences prevents that. By design of course.
Even if juries stuck to "just the factual issues which the judge proclaims to be relevant," that still leaves room for *some* public participation in government. More participation than they have now anyway.
There are two additional issues - do juries get to interpret the law and do they get to ignore the law. Two separate issues, though often conflated, and counteracted by the dogma that the judge tells the jury which facts are relevant and limits the jury to deciding those facts.
What you say misses the point. Even if someone is guilty they shouldn't have to face a harsher sentence for going to trial. If the punishment in the plea deal fits the crime, then the punishment for going to court does not fit the crime. That's how tyranny works. With unjust laws.
Just remember these two important today as you're all suffering through by far your most expensive barbecue you've ever had by a mile in order to prop up Block Yomomma's "Liberal World Order":
1) It's been done to you deliberately, and
2) The pain is just getting started, the worst is still yet to come.
So Happy Dependence Day to you all.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1543985807882522624?t=aJ8edBdP53AZwf2fgBUdig&s=19
Overnight on July 3, violent far-left & #BLM rioters gathered in downtown Akron, Ohio with bats & started fires. They're angry about the police shooting death of #JaylandWalker, an armed black man who led police on a wild car chase & shooting at them.
A masked man with a bat in Akron, Ohio used a bat to smash out windows during the violent far-left direct action overnight. The rioters were trying to attack the Justice Center. #JaylandWalker
#BLM & left-wing rioters started fires at their violent unlawful assembly overnight in downtown Akron, Ohio. They're angry about police shooting dead a man who was fleeing from police in a vehicle & shooting at cops. #JaylandWalker
[video]
So what do you want to do about this problem?
This mob is rioting due to the perceived injustices of police conduct.
It is no different in principle than a mob rioting due to, say, perceived injustices associated with a certain election.
When that latter mob riots, we are told that the way to stop such riots from happening in the future is to seriously address their concerns, and implement strict election security rules. Okay, fine. When that former mob riots, should we take their concerns seriously? If so, how?
Fuck off and die, marxist cunt.
That's how to address their "concerns"
You've expressed right-wing narcissism quite nicely.
"MY concerns are legitimate. THEIR concerns are illegitimate."
You are a totalitarian piece of shit, and your life threatens all Americans freedom.
Die. Now.
And Jeff explains his world view while attributing it to others.
More of that "honest argumentation"
Lol. Keep telling yourself you're the only honest person here jeff. It is more of your self delusion.
You literally make something up about someone else then deride someone else calling you out for it.
Youre a fucking idiot jeff.
You literally make something up about someone else then deride someone else calling you out for it.
Talk about projection.
Sarc. Please follow along with the conversation. I know jeff is your newest fling, but who inserted their comments here? Me or him?
God damn, follow fools and be called a fool.
"MY concerns are legitimate. THEIR concerns are illegitimate."
Principals, not principles. Judge concerns by the source, not their merit. Don't even need to know what the concern is. Just who it came from.
Yes jeff. Leaving decisions up to states and pushing power down to local areas is frightening. We know. You want global authoritarianism.
Which is exactly what I said. Not.
This must be more of your "honest argumentation" right?
Yes you did. You claimed this justice abuse is one sided. A defense of now for a defense of then. It is pure whataboutis to attack the side you dislike dummy. Despite the two sides not being nearly as equal in offense.
Youre a leftist shit. Everyone here knows it.
You claimed this justice abuse is one sided.
No I didn't. This is more of your "honest argumentation" I see.
It just goes to show that you cannot be honest when arguing with me. You are so dishonest you even lie when you claim you are being honest.
Jeff. Youre a leftist shit. How many times are you going to deny the obvious?
Nothing you've posted here in this entire thread was about honest argumentation. You realize that yes? Or more delusion?
You ever notice that when you call him out for doing something dishonest that he keeps doing it while accusing you of doing what he is doing? It's as predictable as the tides.
Did you notice that he interjected first? Lol. God damn you two pathetic people deserve each other.
He's talking about people protesting police abuse, you respond with a lie saying he's talking about Supreme court decisions, and then get all pissy when you get called out on it. Then you say to him:
You literally make something up about someone else then deride someone else calling you out for it.
I can't tell if you're stupid, pathologically dishonest, or both.
Again retard, jeff made the insertion and claims of others as to their arguments. But you have no principles. You are just a follower looking for a friend. Check the time stamps buddy. Right now you just look like a jeff net hugger as he is the initiator as usual here.
See Jeff's first post where he injected a claim not made.
Two retards dancing in the moonlight. You and Jeff could be a Disney animated movie.
youo dont mean that and you know it.
What you mean is that if the riots are ostensibly promoting some theme or issue you support, it's all good, and if they dont, fuck 'em.
Well, you are half-right: no I don't totally mean that. I don't agree with giving veto power to the mob. I don't agree with adopting election security measures BECAUSE a mob stormed the Capitol, and I don't agree with adopting criminal justice reform measures BECAUSE a mob burned downtown Akron.
But, that is my position. The position of many around here, on the other hand, seems to be, that if we don't want another Jan. 6 riot, that it is imperative that the government adopt strict election security measures. That the government should bend to the will of the mob. So, if we don't want other Akrons to burn down, what should the government do in this case to placate the mob? Hmm?
Count only the votes cast by Christian National Socialist Trumpanzees, then strengthen the Nixon Anti-libertarian Law to do away with God's Anarco-Anschluss LNC (no big loss). This formula worked swimmingly for White Power in Germany for a dozen consecutive years.
https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1543987891512246272?t=hn3ggh50PzeGqS_OMVrsfQ&s=19
NOW - Multiple people shot at July 4th parade in Highland Park, IL.
[Video]
FBI was aware of the shooter.
Every. Damn. Time.
https://twitter.com/Lancegooden/status/1543743057027293194?t=xP9zfTT9eW6AobkYhLONKw&s=19
The Biden Administration just canceled oil and gas leases in Utah.
Joe Biden is trying to make $5 gas permanent.
Is the party of stupid brave enough to run this information in their campaign ads? Is the GOP smart enough to regain power in Washington DC and actually push through with investigating the Dems for their crimes? Or, will they roll over like the Establishment POS that they are?
correction: Joe Biden's millenial larper whitehouse handlers are trying to usher in a bolshevik revolution
Headline in my local paper:
"How to be a passive participant, and how to report on your neighbors that aren't. HAPPY 4TH!"
Fuck those people with commercial grade fireworks.
https://twitter.com/KeeleyFox29/status/1543882623013031944?t=wMCTG36CNZ_iBofh8vbuLQ&s=19
3/3 @PhillyPolice officers tell FOX29 News groups of juveniles have been randomly attacking people EVERY night for past two weeks in & around Center City @FOX29philly
[Link]
Those darn KKK hooligans ruining our inner cities.
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Nein
One wonders what animalistic metaphors Adams would conjure today if he could see the U.S. criminal justice system in motion
Probably something to do with donkeys and elephants.
Observe that both Looter Kleptocracy avatars, unlike the pre-Anschluss Libertarian Porcupine, are chattel beasts of burden.
https://twitter.com/RebelNewsOnline/status/1544033677767761921?t=AvlHh2gHJ0MwTKojyLKqug&s=19
Canadians will be required to get a COVID booster shot every nine months to remain “up to date,” says Health Minister Jean-Yves Duclos.
[Link]
Giving up rights for the illusion of security. Always ends well. It will be interesting if the recent data out of Germany related to birth rates is consistent across all the Western Countries that rolled out "safe and effective" vaccines.
Oh, what's this?
time to leave.
Mass shootings going on in the utopian Scandinavian countries. I thought this was a problem unique to the US?
How can they possibly have mass shootings with much more strict (compared to the US) laws? I thought laws fixed mass shootings?
https://twitter.com/KatieDaviscourt/status/1544068380885340160?t=iEleDKuQ31nNaI0UxYLIiQ&s=19
DC: Leftists are protesting the 4th of July in front of the White House.
[Pic]
They need a highland park IL moment
This is the most libertarian article I"ve seen from Reason in some time, and it is totally right.
Unbeknownst to Billy Bob, earlier generations of Americans had--in addition to jury trials--answers in kind to stormers of the Halls of Kleptocracy, as Ambrose Bierce so fluently pointed out: "GRAPESHOT, n. An argument which the future is preparing in answer to the demands of American Socialism." Hitlerite conservatives and Christian Fronters take note that this includes American National Socialism no less specifically than the Anancho-Antifa variety.
Religious conservative fanatics had managed by 1927 to nullify 4th and 5th Amendment defenses against Volstead "violation" charges, but juries kept springing their neighborhood "beer shooter." The Jones Increased Penalties law, signed 2 days before Herbert Hoover began "steadily building a new race" in 1929 changed that. Five years on a chain gang and a fine that weighed 10 pounds of gold made those tax-dodging beer pushers accept any bargain and snitch on all suppliers. Eight months later the entire economy lay in ruins.
absolutely zero defendants are forced to take a plea. zero. defendants take pleas of their own volition and the decision are theirs. there are no victims here.
Only if you have an absurdly narrow definition of "forced" and "volition".
Hypothetical.
Absent a plea deal system, a defendant is charged with an offence for which the likely sentence is 3 years and the defendant's chances of acquittal are 50%. Expected sentence: 1.5 years
With a plea deal system, a defendant is charged with a series of offenses for which the likely sentence is 20 years and his chances of acquittal are 75%. But he can take a plea deal for 3 years. If he refuses the deal, his expected sentence is 5 years. So he takes the deal.
Simply by adding charges, even if they reduce the likelihood of conviction - by no means a given - the prosecutor puts a rational defendant, even if innocent, in the position of having to choose a plea deal for 3 years, This is not a free choice by any normal definition.
Now a prosecutor supposedly shouldn't bring cases with such a low probability of success, but this is the US, not Fantasyland, and if the sentence for the more severe charges is significantly greater than the sentence for a lighter charge, that more than offsets the reduced chance of conviction and makes it more likely that the deal gets accepted.
The system actively encourages prosecutors to add charges, and indeed in its current form it is rational for prosecutors to do this if the goal of the system is to put more people in prison for longer periods, which we know in practice to be true.
you're certainly correct that the prosecutors add charges. however the defendant can tell the prosecutor to pound sand knowing the the additional charges are bullshit. the story here highlighted such a case. you're describing an irrational, emotional person making a bad choice to take the plea. the smart person will go to trial. but as i correctly stated it is always the defendants' choice, in fact he is always told so. i agree that prosecutors should not be playing these games, but our judicial system is designed to be an adversarial system.
You're overlooking the expectation calculation. It is not irrational to perform such calculations. In fact, only an irrational and emotional person would fail at least to consider such calculations.
Further, the whole set-up may be affected by the defendant's legal resources. A citizen with a poorly paid and incompetent public defender might think his expectations of acquittal at trial were adversely affected.
I think part of the problem is that being a prosecutor is a step in many political careers. This incentivizes getting conviction to show your success for the next step in the career and the easiest route to success is the plea deals. This gives you a high conviction rate that is used to demonstrate your success. Not sure you can do much about this other than to ask people to consider if being a prosecutor is enough qualifications to get their vote.
Over charging and multiple charges are part of the problem. They are pushing for plea bargains and make going to trial and losing on even one minor charge a nightmare of years in a maximum security prison. It scare the hell out of even innocent people and they accept the plea bargain. Look at many of the Jan. 6th defendants, guilty of standing across the street or maybe trespassing, but charged with all kind of serious felonies. If they go to trial in DC which is about 96% Democratic and no change of venues have been issued they will be convicted of all crimes and get years in prison. Not to mention the corruption of the DC courts, where Sussman was able to get a Clinton campaign workers and his child's friends parent on the jury. You can't blame them for taking a plea deal against a totally corrupt trial system.
When did you first become aware that there were systemic issues, like plea bargains, adverse treatment in jails, etc.?