Alabama Draws on Supreme Court's New Abortion Decision To Justify Trans Youth Treatment Ban
Alabama's attorney general argues such medical transitioning is not rooted in America’s history and therefore not constitutionally protected.

Parents do not have the power to seek certain medical treatments to assist their trans children in potentially changing their gender because it's not "deeply rooted in [America's] history or traditions," argues the attorney general of Alabama, using language that echoes last week's Supreme Court decision overturning Roe v. Wade.
In this case, Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall is attempting to overturn a temporary injunction that blocks implementation of a state law (S.B 184) that bans and criminalizes treating trans children with puberty blockers, hormones, or surgeries for the purpose of "transitioning" the child to the opposite sex.
A group of Alabama parents and a pediatrician filed suit to stop the law, arguing it unconstitutionally interferes in the rights of families to decide medical treatments for themselves. The U.S. Department of Justice also intervened in support of the families. Meanwhile, 15 other states filed briefs in support of Alabama, while 22 healthcare organizations filed briefs in support of the families.
In May, a judge with the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Alabama, Northern Division, sided with the plaintiffs, observing that Alabama officials "failed to produce evidence showing that transitioning medications jeopardize the health and safety of minors suffering from gender dysphoria. Nor do Defendants offer evidence to suggest that healthcare associations are aggressively pushing these medications on minors." Judge Liles C. Burke found that the parents were likely to win on claims that S.B. 184 violates their 14th Amendment Due Process and Equal Protection rights and stopped the state from enforcing much of the law for now as it continues its way through the courts.
Alabama has turned to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit to get the injunction overturned and submitted an argument on Tuesday that Burke's constitutional interpretations are wrong. While Alabama's response includes discussion of many court cases and precedents in its argument that Burke got the decision wrong, it's getting the most attention because it includes some of the logic from the June 24 Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization decision that overturned Roe v. Wade, leaving it to individual states to decide the extent that women can abort pregnancies.
Part of the logic of Justice Samuel Alito's majority decision was that "the right to abortion is not deeply rooted in the Nation's history and tradition." That wording didn't originate with the Dobbs decision. You'll find this analysis in Washington v. Glucksberg, a 1997 Supreme Court case where the justices unanimously ruled that Americans do not have constitutional right to physician-assisted suicide. Alito explained in the majority decision in Dobbs that the courts typically use that "history and tradition" analysis to determine whether an unenumerated right exists and is protected by the 14th Amendment. In Dobbs, the majority concluded that abortion does not. And while Alito's opinion was insistent that the Dobbs decision was very particular because abortion results in the destruction of a "potential life," there is really nothing in the decision that would prevent its logic from being used in other cases.
And that's exactly what is happening in Alabama:
The district court thus erred when it found in the Due Process Clause a fundamental right for parents "to treat their children with transitioning medications." Neither the district court nor Plaintiffs even attempted to show how such a right is deeply rooted in our nation's history and traditions, which it obviously is not. Indeed, courts are in one accord that there is no personal substantive-due-process right for anyone—adult or child—to obtain medical treatments deemed dangerous or experimental by the government, so there is no reason to think that parents have a right to obtain those same treatments for their children.
It's a mistake, though, to see Alabama's response solely through the lens of Dobbs. The argument here is that nobody has a constitutional right to any sort of medical treatment if the government deems it dangerous or experimental. There are many, many court cases that back up Alabama here besides just Dobbs. The introduction to the argument initially discusses not transgender medical treatment but medical marijuana use, noting that Alabama lawmakers recently decided to allow marijuana as a treatment for a host of particular illnesses.
Prior to this change, the appeal notes, marijuana use in the state was illegal, regardless of whether patients wanted to use it and regardless of whether doctors wanted to prescribe it. Alabama invokes medical marijuana here to explain that the state has wide authority to decide what we are permitted to do with our bodies and that the courts have historically deferred to lawmakers to establish the framework.
As such, notes Marshall's filing, Alabama's lawmakers have determined that some of this medical transition treatment is too dangerous and experimental and decided not to allow it for children: "The State can thus regulate or prohibit those interventions for children, even if an adult wants the drugs for his child. Just as the parental relationship does not unlock a Due Process right allowing parents to obtain medical marijuana or abortions for their children, neither does it unlock a right to transitioning treatments."
Many would argue that parents and children (and not the government) should be making these decisions. But there are many, many court decisions that have determined otherwise. And Alabama's position is that the state gets to call the shots here, even if all the medical experts disagree with them.
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Why do we have to go through these legal contortions to ban conversion therapy for children when it's already been banned in other states such as Washington and California and with wide approbation from the media and center-left sphere?
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Get back to me when parents actually have full control over their own kids. Until then, you fucking statists made the framework where government has control over my parenting, so you live with it.
And with that framework in place this specific intrusion by government is one of the least offensive on the books. A big fucking yawn from me.
A group of Alabama parents and a pediatrician filed suit to stop the law, arguing it unconstitutionally interferes in the rights of families to decide medical treatments for themselves.
What's Reason's position on female circumcision?\
*googles*
Ok, here's Reason in 2008. Note Gillespie refers to it as Female Genital Mutilation.
Interesting... very interesting. What a difference a decade makes I guess. Kurdistan families merely demanded the freedom to make medical treatments for themselves without the interference of the state.
Lol. Hypocrisy abounds.
Dare we look for their reaction to gat conversion therapy?
Gay*
gat conversion therapy
Like from 9 to .45?
No. Still legal. Adding a thing that goes up converts it into a completely different weapon.
like 45 round magazines
I am so over the gay thing!!!
Motion: find Scott a husband / Master / Owner to keep him/xim caged in a dungeon as a puppy, as far away as practical from a computer with no internet access.
All affirmed hike up your leg to allow Scott to drink
Scott's new vocation:
https://www.pupplay.info/training/
Training
TRAINING CAN BE
Definition of Character
It cannot be emphasised enough that being a puppy is not reserved to a set time or place. That, at any present moment, there is a part of our soul that wants to leap out and give licks, wags, and playful barks to people around us
Two more days of endless rainbow flags and flapping dildos, then we will mercifully being back to our normal gay and trans programming.
We have one gay pride flag at home, a gift from an octogenarian friend who wanted to show her support of us as a married gay couple. Attached to a 6" stick, the flag is maybe 4" x 6", rolled and tossed under our dresser on the floor. It is the original flag pride colors, figuring it will be worth some money in a couple of decades after the alphabet people completely make it unrecognizable with their many virtue signaling edits
It is the original flag pride colors, figuring it will be worth some money in a couple of decades after the alphabet people completely make it unrecognizable with their many virtue signaling edits
I kind of like the newer, more Hugo Boss style flags. They seem more appropriate. they'd look better on an armband or perhaps on an insignia with two skulls on either side.
It is the original flag pride colors
The ones appropriated from Electrical Resistor Color Codes?
Well I hope being straight works out better for you Yat.
This is such a stupid debate. There have been lefty attempts to ban Jewish circumcision, female genital mutilation is widely condemned, and yet here comes something far more damaging, and suddenly it's hunky dory.
No it is not acceptable.
What next, bring back pre-puberty castration for that glorious castrati sound?
Just Fuck No.
Goddam this burns me up. How can anyone claiming to be libertarian approve such mutilation on minors? Minors can't sign contracts, police bring them back home if they run away, even getting an abortion sometimes requires notifying parents. They aren't allowed to smoke or drink legally until age 21, they aren't allowed to join the military until 18, yet you want to let them "decide" this kind of crap at age 5 or 10?
Yet mutilating minors who are not legally allowed to decide for themselves, who are almost everywhere else recognized as incapable of being responsible for life-threatening decisions, can be permanently transformed by such massive drastic surgery and chemical treatment.
If the parents and kid want puberty and growth blockers so the little darlin' remains a kid forever, is that tolerable? No it isn't.
It is fucking WRONG.
Would you let a kid "decide" to amputate an arm at age 10 so he can set Guinness records? Would you let parents say their kid wants it, and that is OK?
The kid can wait til adulthood for this. Ask Deirdre McCloskey, who transitioned late in life.
Hey, let's back off with the ideology, Harvey Milk. One libertarian's genital mutilation is another libertarian's "constitutionally protected gender affirming surgery".
Yeah, but it's odd how one person can have both views at once.
Having these nuanced, sophisticated views requires serious vigor of the intellect.
No, not really. There are lots of things I find vile. But that doesn't mean I want to make them illegal.
One libertarian's genital mutilation is another libertarian's "constitutionally protected gender affirming surgery".
Sometimes the same "libertarian's".
Here's the Volokh Conspiracy saying that any laws around this "horrible crime" should be left to the states. it's not an argument in favor of the procedure, but an article on the principle of the federal government remaining within its enumerated powers, leaving such things up to the states.
I wonder if there's another medical-ish thing that the states should be left with?
I didn't know libertarianism meant "states rights" except on guns.
More interesting would be a list of things you not only think you know, but which you actually do know.
Sure, if we ignore that pesky amendment that says "shall not be infringed".
You might want to read the 2nd Amendment. And the 10th.
He didn't know there was a 9th until he saw it in his talking points the other day.
Yeah, but he still doesn't know what it means.
I don't even know what point I wish to argue about.
I guess, it's just calling out that a lot of this isn't grappling with the argument made by the court at all and is just arguing they don't like that abortion is now in the realm of the legislature.
My rebuttal to Volokh, and it's slowly becoming the sole one after the last couple decisions, is that I would agree except that the FedGov has almost utterly abandoned it's obligations to the people and the States wrt immigration and naturalization. I'd say that there's still and argument to be made that the FedGov still regards some religions and nations of origin as more oppressed and/or favorable than others and there's still, as is pointed out, plenty of infringement on rights that say "shall not be infringed", but chiefly, the situation, de factor or de rigueur, is still such that if the FedGov offers hundreds of thousands of dollars to immigrants to come to this country and then flies them to Texas, that's Texas' problem.
Pretty sure society gets a say in whether parents and doctors get to carve up kids or use chemicals on them.
The alternative is unlimited abuse. People aren’t going to accept that. Libertarians can get mad or whatever but it’s not convincing people to allow unlimited abuse of children.
That's why you're not allowed to fuck your kids, even though they're "your kids".
Predictable, as this court with St Alito the leader has announced it's war on the future. Regardless how one thinks bout this particular issue, the weapon of "hey, that's not what my grandpappy thought!" was established by the court and will now be swung at anything the Catholic church doesn't like.
Key Diane! Get your hands on the table and out of your pants or Alabama will git you!
Because allowing people to decide as a Democracy is a grave threat to Woke Totalitarianism Rule.
Somehow your "future" involves old favorites like catamites, castratos and serfdom but you're still shrieking "progress!"
Chemically castrating my child is a human right!
My body, my choice!
Good for Alabama.
Now show me the way to the next whiskey bar.
oh, don't ask why.
There is no telephone in this town
Just come out as full pedo, Reason.
You know you want to.
Sterilizing children and subsequently slicing up juniors’ cock to make a scarred fuck tunnel is questionable as a medical practice anywhere other than Auschwitz, even if the parents are %100 in support of the mutilation.
Who has set this bizarre agenda at Reason? Why have they abandoned the non-aggression principle in supporting irrecoverable mutilations on children who cannot by definition provide informed consent?
When the mother missed her chance to abort her kid, the least she can do is sterilize her kid before the kid can get away. /sarc
Eugenicists and people worried about "overpopulation" are apparently fully on board with this.
Abortions and forced sterilizations, the backbone of Democrat policy for more than 100 years.
And this article is exactly why I don't call myself a libertarian and won't vote for one.
If my 13 year old thinks they're transabled and wants to lop their arm off should I be able to go have it amputated at the doctor to affirm them? It's no less damaging than giving them lupron or cross sex hormones.
Until recently gender dysphoria was almost exclusively amongst boys, and only 1 in 30-100,000 people had it. Suddenly it's become extremely prevalent among upper middle class white girls with progressive parents after immersion online and in friend clusters also identifying as trans at the same time. You think the solution is to affirm this by giving them experimental drugs meant for chemically castrating sex offenders, and testosterone? You think they should be getting dangerous and experimental surgeries with no standard of care and no recourse for mistakes and damages?
Parents have no idea about these side effects, and the kids definitely don't. They're all told it's "safe" and just a "pause button" that's "easily reversible".
The children should be protected and receive appropriate psychological care. Once they're an adult and have finished going through puberty, 80% of whom desist afterwards, then they can decide.
These proggie parents treat their children as fashion accessories.
It's disgusting.
Indeed, the ones who do it for that reason are repulsive. I think that even more are emotionally blackmailed with "do you want a dead daughter or living son" type of messaging though, and "trust the experts" far too much.
The Constitution sanction no right to inflict T shirts on the electorate.
Appropriate psychological care. My concern is that this kind of care is becoming rare.
It's not treatment you pedofile
Exactly how is preventing the onset of normal puberty in a child not a "harm"? This is not really something that medical science can turn on and turn off at will without side effects. Furthermore, where is the evidence of benefit for these "treatments"?
What is the "treatment" for "trans youth" and what is the treatment curing?
>>potentially changing their gender
changing their outward physical appearance. gender remains.
And Alabama's position is that the state gets to call the shots here, even if all the medical experts disagree with them.
That's an epiphany that all the medical experts think transitioning children is swell.
I periodically like to point out that the Libertarian candidates forced a run-off for the 2 Georgia senate seats. The 2 Republican candidates were leading, but the Libertarian candidates shaved just enough votes to prevent them from achieving 50%. Democrats engaged their tricks, money, and shenanigans and subsequently won both senate seats in the runoffs giving the Democrats the Senate. Thanks, Libertarians
Well, at this point you're assuming the libertarians pulled off Republican votes. That might have been true 20 years ago, now I'm not so sure, what with all the BLM and pro-medical-intervention-to-affirm-what-the-school-system-jammed-down-your-kids-throat positions libertarianism seems to take.
The libertarian answer to parenting has long been "let the parents decide - within very broad limits". It is up to parents to decide what is best for their kids, and the state should only get involved if there is very clear evidence that there is actual child abuse going on. At least that used to be the libertarian position. Now, I don't know what is the libertarian position. "The parents should decide, but the state should get veto power over all their decisions"? Is that it?
Just this morning in the school choice discussion, I was arguing that private schools ought to be urged to follow a broadly liberal education curriculum. Another commenter pointed out that such requirements on schools are not necessary - after all, won't parents naturally be inclined to pursue the best educational opportunities for their kids, because they want what's best for them? But now, in this discussion, we are expected to believe that those same parents who will go out of their way to find the best educational opportunities for their kids, they will blithely and cavalierly agree to major surgery on their kids for the most trivial of reasons? Really?
If you do not trust parents with the authority to know what medical decisions are best for their kids, then how can you trust them with, say, school choice? Maybe private schools should be banned and all kids forced to go to government-run schools with a curriculum set by the state, because parents can't be trusted to know what is best education-wise for their kids. I don't seriously advocate for that, but for those who want the state to be micromanaging parental medical decisions over their kids, what is your argument against this?
A little while ago this story was linked to in the morning roundup, and it is I think a very good history of gender reassignment surgery for teenagers:
https://archive.ph/U2feL
It turns out, there is an actual medically recognized standard of care for teenagers. It is not a quick process. It is not a spur-of-the-moment thing. It involves intensive therapy and a lot of preparation to determine if the child really would be helped by the surgery, or if transgenderism is "just a phase". And for those who actually follow this standard of care, reassignment tends to be successful. The problem is that not everyone follows this standard of care. Not everyone goes through the intensive therapy, and not even all doctors or counselors recommend as much therapy as is needed. So IF there is going to be any state intervention at all, I can see the case for requiring parents to follow the actual medical standard of care, instead of trying to take shortcuts. But we really do not want the state trying to dictate and micromanage every medical decision that parents make.
After all, the state that you want to forbid parents from pursuing gender reaffirming care, is the state that you also don't want mandating your kid to get the COVID-19 vaccine, right?
Fukkin based.
Holy shit
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1542264848171634688?t=2o0eQ6mQRADTixDP16qjBw&s=19
‘Never ask permission’: How two trans women ran a legendary underground surgical clinic in a rural tractor barn
Somewhere in the boondocks of America's Pacific Northwest, you will find a rustic-looking wooden house that has stood there for about a century, with an old tractor barn converted into a small outbuilding.
And, if you had entered that tractor barn between 2004 and 2006, you would have found a secret underground transgender surgical clinic run by two trans women with an autoclave and a cauterisation machine bought on eBay.
[Link]
If you guys want a gay man's opinion on the Pride Krystallnacht, watch this for some refreshing thoughts.
You know, a one day gay pride march in some of the bigger cities was fine. You went, maybe you marched with some people or a club, you had some drinks or went to a party, and you went home. Like St. Patrick's with different colors. It created some visibility, it annoyed some people, but on the whole, it was a positive experience.
Month long pride celebrations are stupid. Every effing business putting a rainbow flag in their windows is stupid. Politicians showing up at pride marches is stupid. The organizing committees have become hotbeds of radical leftist stupidity, divisiveness, and racism. The red tape is intolerable. Boston Pride was canceled altogether over all that.
it is child abuse period. Humans are born with specific sexual preferences (gay or straight). Someone who is convinced they are the wrong sex is different. Denying evolution and biology is not something to be taken lightly and demanding to use chemicals or surgery to imitate the desired "sex" is best left to an adult age given how little we understand the drivers of this decision.
Well, they are all mental differences related to sex, so in that sense, they are alike.
The real difference is that most homosexuals don't believe they have a disorder and don't demand surgery or hormones to change them. People with gender dysphoria have a disorder and demand surgery for what is a mental disorder.
Surgery/amputation is no more appropriate for gender dysphoria than it is for body integrity dysphoria (people who have a desire to have body parts amputated).
Gender transition in underage children is not a safe and effective medical treatment for any disease; in fact, it is quite harmful.
There's an age of majority.
If you're not old enough to smoke a cigarette or get a tattoo, or consent to sex, then you're not old enough to consent to change your sex.
And it is not "life-saving surgery."
Life-saving surgery is a heart transplant or tumor removal.
If you have to wait until you're 18 to have a sex change operation, your body is not just going to stop working. It will continue working.
Suicide rates do not support a counter-argument.
If your 15 year old son Felix is going to kill himself because he has to wait 3 years to become Felicia, the answer is not to have the surgery - it's to bring him to a facility where he won't be able to harm himself.
Honestly, if instead of Felix thinking he's Felicia, Felix thought he was Peter Stuyvesant, would you take him in for an amputation and suspend any of his classmates who refused to call him Governor?
Wouldn't it be better for the conservative argument if they didn't constantly make it obvious that their goal is to attempt to erase trans people from existence?
It sure could seem like common sense for the state to force people to undergo or not undergo certain medical procedures if only they could refrain from rushing immediately to the genocide.
Oh well. Republicans: the party that believes governments knows your medical needs better than you and your doctor. Put it on a bumper sticker.
I want to pump my kid full of kerosene because he sometimes pretends to be a fighter jet. I'm encouraging him to have surgery to remove his fingers so his arms look more like wings.
Give it 6 months...
And a fine of up to $5,000