Mandatory Menu Labeling Still a Flop
Calorie counts don't change behavior.

"Calorie labeling on menus hasn't dramatically changed how many calories most people consume when they dine out, research is showing, four years after the Food and Drug Administration began requiring chain restaurants nationwide to post calorie counts," NBC News reported last week. "Meanwhile, obesity rates have risen, from about 30 percent prevalence in 1999-2000 to 42 percent in 2017-2020."
Forcing businesses to add calorie counts to their food menus, supporters contended, was supposed to have a dramatic impact on the food choices Americans make and on our waistlines. As I've explained previously, neither of those things has happened.
The federal menu-labeling mandate, which took effect in 2018 after years of delays, was adopted into law as part of Obamacare. The law, as I've explained, requires owners of chain restaurants, vending machines, groceries, movie theaters, and others to post total average calorie information for most of their menu items.
"The rules would be a disaster," I explained in 2017, noting they would cost $1 billion to implement and that virtually every study published to date indicated menu labeling doesn't improve consumer food choices or health.
Indeed, the NBC reports notes various studies that claim to have found calorie reductions ranging from 25 to 100 calories per person, per meal. If those numbers sound tiny, it's because they are. For example, if a person who dined out 10 times each month—120 times each year—ate 25 fewer calories per meal and their diet remained otherwise unchanged, they'd lose less than one pound per year.
The NBC News report cited the opinions of researchers in the field. They've concluded mandatory menu labeling has made "not much of a difference," promoted "a slight change," or "did not have any impact that we could observe on people's food purchasing behaviors."
Even those tepid assessments of the impact of menu-labeling mandates are actually far rosier than other research has demonstrated overs the years. For example, a 2011 study in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine, where I've served as a peer reviewer, found that one local menu-labeling mandate that preceded (and was preempted by) the national mandate, this one in Seattle, had no impact at all on consumer choices.
"No impact of the regulation on purchasing behavior was found," the study concluded. "Trends in transactions and calories per transaction did not vary between control and intervention locations after the law was enacted."
Subsequent studies have echoed those findings. Others have often focused on finding a silver lining in these failed policies. For example, a 2015 study that looked at the same Seattle menu-labeling mandate focused on increasing consumer "awareness" of calorie counts—a squishy term that has nothing to do with the purpose of the law, to impact choices and obesity rates—which the researchers found occurred mostly among wealthy, white consumers.
"Putting calorie labels on menus really has little or no effect on people's ordering behaviors at all," Julie Downs, lead author of a study published in the American Journal of Public Health, told NBC's own the Today show in 2013.
Historically, supporters of menu-labeling mandates have taken a wait-and-see approach. The Center for Science in the Public Interest, which supported the national mandate, noted as the law took effect in 2018 that "[t]he full impact of menu labeling will be clearer once the national menu labeling policy goes into full effect."
Prof. John Cawley, of Cornell University, who's published studies on menu labeling, told NBC last week that even if mandates are largely ineffective, the upside is that they're "cheap," "easy," and preferred by study participants. I'd counter that they're neither cheap ($1 billion) nor easy (they don't work), and that even if study participants say they love mandatory calorie counts, the facts (the great majority of study participants don't use them) demonstrate otherwise.
In recent years, writers at Bon Appetit, Eater, Tasting Table, and elsewhere have suggested that ineffective menu-labeling mandates might be better off relegated to the scrap heap. That solution is cheap, easy, and reflects what the data truly shows: The full impact of menu labeling is clear; mandatory calorie counts don't work.
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Well, Hell, you could pay someone else to count falories for you.
Historically, supporters of menu-labeling mandates have taken a wait-and-see approach. The Center for Science in the Public Interest, which supported the national mandate, noted as the law took effect in 2018 that "[t]he full impact of menu labeling will be clearer once the national menu labeling policy goes into full effect."
So in other words, we have to pass the menu mandates before we find out what's in the menu? Riiiight!
I would think a picture of Nancy Lugosi on a menu would by itself be a calorie restrictor by putting you off your food.
Or better yet, mandate lousy tasting food. Forbid food which smells good, because that encourages you to order too much of the wrong food; forbid food which tastes good, because that encourages you to finish your meal and encourages you to come back.
Of course, that conflicts with the new law forbidding throwing away food, so require everyone to take their leftovers with them.
Of course, you would probably just throw it away somewhere else, increasing the amount of trash, so restaurants will have to report all doggy bags to a central system, and your refrigerators will have to report the weight of all doggy bags.
Of course, you might throw it out the next day instead of eating it, so we'll have to forbid anything other than doggy bags in fridges. That in turn means banning grocery stores selling to the general public; everyone will have to eat out to enforce just dieting. This also requires forbidding private vegetable gardens or fruit trees.
I see this is getting simpler. Simplicity in the service of Big Brother was not what I anticipated when I started this thread. Maybe I am a closet socialist after all!
I've got The Fixx playing in my head now as I read what you're saying. 🙂
The Fixx - One Thing Leads To Another (Official Video)
https://youtu.be/JHYIGy1dyd8
By the way, LongToBeFree, sorry about my clumsy fingers flagging your post.
Nothing you said was wrong and hopefully it will be back up. Paraphrase it again and post it and it should get past the bots. It's worked for me in the past.
Now carb counts - - - - - - - -
But not enough people would know what that means or how to use it.
Glycemic load would be helpful (since fiber is healthy carb). But mostly for people who already know that meals prepared by anonymous industrial cooks are probably unhealthy. So they don't eat it - so it's not helpful.
Oh yes, you are the only person capable of understanding. Everyone else is dumb.
Well you are certainly dumb and proud of it
Are you up to 5 or 6 masks at a time?
If you think you're the smartest person in the room - you aren't.
In case you want to understand rather than snark (yes, I know, optimistic of me), JFree has a point. People who care about fiber and glycemic load probably already have a good idea the values for anything they order in a restaurant. People who don't know those numbers likely don't really care.
On the other hand, every time I look at a Cheesecake Factory menu, I'm gobsmacked by the calorie numbers. I knew they were big meals but didn't realize just _how_ big.
Good luck living forever.
Plenty of people understand that.
Changed my behavior.
“If it saves just one life!”
But where are you on the intersectionality victim scale? Your life might not matter.
"Forcing businesses to add calorie counts to their food menus, supporters contended, was supposed to have a dramatic impact on the food choices Americans make and on our waistlines. As I've explained previously, neither of those things has happened."
Not yet. But in phase two, Americans will only be permitted a fixed number of calories per day, and those menu numbers will be helpful--or just an unattainable fantasy.
Shoot. Come winter, people will be dying to find that many calories
..
When you socialize the cost of healthcare, then government necessarily needs to interfere in the lifestyle choices citizens make.
All part of the plan, NOYB2, all part of the plan.
Yeah I think what these studies really show is that the decision to eat unhealthy food is made even before entering the restaurant, and that all the calorie labeling does is - perhaps - persuade someone to choose an 1800-calorie meal instead of a 2000-calorie meal.
People should be free to choose whatever meal they want. It would also be nice, however, to have an incentive for people to choose healthier lifestyle options. Ideally this would happen through health insurance. But right now health insurance only seems to kick in when obesity has reached the point where surgical solutions are called for. It would be better if there was an incentive for healthier lifestyles that didn't wait until surgery was called for.
Incentives? You mean besides living longer with fewer pains and less illness? Besides the current social motivations like attractiveness? Besides whatever internal desires people have?
Are you thinking cash money or badges and T-shirts?
Those are minor incentives, but they aren't signals. A good signal that you are obese is if your health insurance rates triple after your physical.
I'm thinking tripling your health insurance premiums when your body fat reaches 25%.
Works for software engineers. I can get my team to do anything for a T-shirt.
Besides, why is "healthy" the highest goal? We could all achieve greater health through all kinds of choices and actions that would make our lives much more difficult and even unpleasant. How about "happy" lives? Most "fulfilling" lives? Those might (and certainly already do) involve unhealthy choices for many people.
Because we live in a progressive society that socializes the cost of healthcare and where healthcare is slowly bankrupting the nation. Once you create such a system, your personal lifestyle choices necessarily become the business of the government.
In a society where all healthcare is private and health insurance is risk-based, you are free to wreck your body any way you like, and pay for the consequences.
Except the lowest cost way to die is instantly of catastrophic death.
The highest cost way to die is to live until your 110s after fighting off several cancers caused by nothing of old age.
There were several calculations done that showed smoking cigarettes actually led to lower long term cost of care as people died about five years earlier.
By this method, we shouldn't be subsidizing healthy eating, but parachute-less skydiving
Yes, cigarette smoking may lower lifetime health care costs for an individual due to early death. Obesity clearly does not; it greatly increases lifetime healthcare costs.
Long life with a healthy lifestyle is not generally costly for insurers since such individuals do not usually get “several cancers”, but at most one fatal one, and since they also pay premiums for 110 years.
In a private insurance system, that would also be taken care of by lifetime caps in return for lower premiums.
By the way, "instant catastrophic death" is becoming less and less likely; accidents that used to kill you now frequently result in extended hospital stays, reconstructive surgery, and a lifetime of medical costs and disability. People get brought back from what used to be fatal conditions over and over again.
And people are forced by law to insure against that and pay the costs even if they don't want it. I don't want to live as a quadriplegic; I don't want to be resuscitated after my heart stops; I don't want to live with brain damage; I don't want to go through rehabilitation after serious burns.
The logical conclusion of this cycle will be Carousel. It will be a question of whether the standard for entering Carousel will be a fixed age, or overall individual health parameters.
How about charging higher insurance rates for obese people?
Sure that is the type of price signal that would work.
Or charging more for women who use much igher amounts of medical care
Not to mention charging women a special longevity tax to address life span injustice.
Well, this crowd will be more open to just skip insurance and let people pay for medical care out of pocket. It's not a bad idea.
Snark aside, the problem is by then it's too late. You have to make meal decisions knowing the consequences build up over decades. That's a huge short term/long term tradeoff. It's a tough motivational problem to overcome.
The "incentive" is actual risk-based, private health insurance: your rates should increase massively if you become obese. Price signals work.
But the US, by law, socializes the cost of healthcare, so that the costs of poor lifestyle choices are born by people who live a healthy lifestyle.
How about not paying farmers to not grow stuff? Then you'll see carrots, celery, and hummus or peanut butter dip selling in the impulse items at checkout.
I also think we underestimate what actually causes obesity. There's just a non-trivial amount of people who eat, and eat, and eat. Food is a great pleasure of life, and we live in a time that it's cheap and available. Even with inflation it's historically less proportion of one's working life to buy food then most times in human history.
This combines to have people overdo it. It's easy. It feels good. The consequences are delayed. Same for porn addiction. Same for TV addiction.
I think something will happen, but it will be cultural, not legal. Like how smoking was ultimately shrank not by law, but by society increasingly viewing it as low class.
I'm one of those people. I'm addicted to food, it's like I need it to live
No, you are dependent on food, just like people become dependent on opioids.
Dependence and addiction are different.
Honestly, I think there's way too much focus on the caloric intake side of things. Seems to me that sedentary lifestyle and flat out laziness are a much bigger factor in ridiculously high obesity rates.
I don't have (nor do I care to look for) any empirical evidence for this. Anecdotally though, I run across way more obese people that eat healthy (or at least not gluttonous) than I do obese people who live an active lifestyle.
Sedentary lifestyle and lack of exercise doesn't explain obesity rates.
In fact, calories probably don't either. Large amounts of sugar and fructose in our food is probably a significant factor.c
Maybe. I'm not convinced though. Like I said, anecdotal, but I consume the shit out of simple sugars and weight's never been a problem for me. I've always attributed it to staying active. This seems to hold true, for the most part, with people I know. Those who move around a lot and stay on their feet, recreationally and/or professionally, tend to be slimmer (regardless of quality/quantity of diet).
Yes, exercise tends to keep you slimmer. But that doesn't mean that lack of exercise is the cause of the obesity epidemic. (And genetics also plays a role.)
People have been sedentary for a long time; obesity and extreme obesity have been climbing steadily only since about 1980, in parallel and with about a 5 year lag of per capita HFCS consumption.
Also, anecdotally, I have never seen anyone with a case of diet sodas who wasn't also obese...and who also didn't buy a case on the regular.
I'd wager a good part of it isn't food. It's drinks.
140-150 calories in a soda or a beer. It all adds up
Forcing businesses to add calorie counts to their food menus, supporters contended, was supposed to have a dramatic impact on business by showcasing the power of the federal government.
I doubt most people know that this is a federal mandate; they just assume it's some kind of health movement.
I work at a print shop and we print menus for a few local restaurants and one large chain. When we started adding calorie counts, I was astounded at how high they are. Many entrees are over what my typical calorie count id for an entire day.
I suspect most people don't know or care what the calorie counts mean.
OTOH, I have to wonder if the metrics they use to measure obesity rates is anywhere near accurate. BMI calculators have changed to a unisex format. Men and women have different body structures. At the same height, a man generally weighs more than a woman.
According to one I looked at recently, I'd have to lose 40 pounds to be considered healthy. I haven't weighed that since I was in high school.
As with many statistics, the goalposts always seem to be moving.
I don't wonder whether obesity rates are accurate. I know they're not. BMI particularly is a guideline, not a precise metric.
Body composition measurements are much better and you really need to account for gender. You probably ought to account for gross body shape: my daughters are both tall and willowy. Their body comp is going to be much different from my wife's and mine.
"Men and women have different body structures."
Heretic!
I appreciate Reason standing up for libertarian principles in this case, but it hardly seems a fight worth fighting. It's a small inconvenience for businesses and a big convenience for diners.
Yes, the purpose of government is to promote convenience for the many by imposing inconvenience on the few.
"I explained in 2017, noting they would cost $1 billion to implement . . . "
You have a funny idea of what 'small inconvenience' means.
What else could have been with that billion? And since it was deductible, what could have been done with the tax dollars?
Fast food alone grosses 570 billion globally; and that's just fast food. The cost of the labels, or 1 billion of $570 billion, carried to 10 places, is $00.0000000000 for the labels that 58% of those of us that are not obese find useful. Sounds like limited government to me.
Blacks and Hispanics (especially the illegal kind favored by libertarians) are increasing by the tens of millions and make up a larger portion of the population and their historic obesity levels are showing up; we've taken mandatory physical education out of the schools. Men don't have to do 2 years of military service and no longer come out with some discipline and zero body fat. And who can ignore the 'boomers' on their bikes, trying to find an empty 'ball' field - today 99.9% of every 'ball' park I walk or drive by sits vacant. 60% of the kids I see now zooms by me on a battery run scooter. This article is just another 'stupid libertarian pet' trick.
I don't see where Reason stood up for any principles. As per usual, they've ceded the Statist ground and are quibbling over the details. The rules would be ok if they had the supposed impact on the food choices Americans make and improved consumer food choices or health.
Pretty sure the warnings on ladders telling you not to use the top as a step didn't cause a reduction in falls, either.
Lawsuits on the other hand....
Ladder falls are very common. Especially in older peole.
Here is what the article you link to says:
A recent review of nearly 30 studies from the well-respected Cochrane Collaboration found that menu labeling helps people reduce their calories by about 50 calories per meal, on average.
You have no idea what the impact of labeling on obesity has been because you have no idea what the increase of obesity would have been without labeling.
Ideologically, I'm mildly opposed to forcing companies to add food labels if they don't want to. But you, Linnekin, let your ideology turn you into a liar and propagandist, and that is not acceptable.
I should keep a list of "mandatory communication" laws which turn out to be completely ineffective at changing behavior:
1. California Prop 65
2. EU GDPR
3. Now mandatory menu labeling
What other fiascos that only a lawyer could love do we have?
The gdpr was 100% successful in its goal. It gave Google and Facebook DE facto monopolies for online advertisement and when the EU pols need money they "fine" one of the two.
No doubt that was the real purpose. That and making sure Google/Meta/Apple never forget who's the boss.
I was naively referring to the stated purpose, protecting users' privacy.
The EU is now forcing Apple to use USB-C cables for charging their phones instead of Apple’s own proprietary Lightning cable. Now senate busybodies want to do the same here.
https://www.engadget.com/senate-common-charger-standard-143038776.html
“The European Union might not be the only government body setting a common standard for device chargers. The Verge notes US senators Ed Markey, Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders have sent a letter to Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo calling on her department to develop a "comprehensive strategy" that would lead to a common charging standard”
Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren deciding how technology should work. Think about that.
Hell, there are conversion kits with pieces for converting one cable to another. And anyone like me has spares of everything laying around.
But evidently, Lizzy Warren only want cable suitable for beading and Bernie Sanders thinks "Nobody needs 23 kinds of electronic cable."
😉
The EU just passed this requirement. That sort of idiot thinking is popular. Just look at the article comments on the link above. Many fools believe it’s perfectly reasonable for politicians and bureaucrats to control this kind of trivia.
One can simultaneously deny the legitimacy of the state making such regulations and still acknowledge that these regulations may be beneficial.
A compulsion to prove that every regulation the government makes doesn't work marks you out as a progressive/utilitarian, not a libertarian. Libertarians reject regulations on principle, even if they are beneficial.
How about trademark law? That seems pretty effective.
Furthermore, there is zero evidence that menu labeling has been ineffective. It was intended to reduce consumption by 50 calories on average, not to end obesity.
Many people find calorie information useful. And it is justifiable in the same way trademark law is.
I guess I am the only person who has made choices based on provided calorie counts. Really, who cares that it hasn't decreased obesity? It gives diners a choice, just because some people still choose high calore items doesn't mean it failed. I've been shocked a few times at dishes that were way higher in calories than I would have thought.
Articles like this are as dumb as ghe ones that think diet soda is nefarious because no one loses weight drinking them. Like you faied the agenda so why bother just stuff yourself with empty calories you fat slob.
So your in favor of goverment mandating things you like?
You don't see how this is a bad policy?
I don't think it's a bad policy at all; I think menu labeling is a good policy. But the libertarian position is that regulations should be rejected because they are an infringement on liberty, even regulations that are "good policy".
If you feel compelled to prove that every regulation should be rejected because it is "bad policy", you're not a libertarian, you're a progressive/utilitarian.
What prevented any business from posting the calorie counts before this legislation went into force? If there was significant customer demand, places that did it would have had a big advantage and most places would have been doing it already. You, for example, might have eschewed eating at places that didn't post the calorie counts.
I find the calorie counts annoying at fast food places because they take up space so it's harder to find the price and the details (esp. on combos like at a Popeyes) as the fonts describing those things shrank to make room for the calorie counts.
Calories matter, but what matters more is what kind of calories. Refined starches and sugars are the road to diabetes. You can eat even more calories from protein, fat and vegetables, and be much healthier.
There is a magical trifecta that makes food taste good:
Fat. Sugar. Salt.
The base for many cookies is creamed butter and sugar with a pinch of salt. You can add just about anything to that and it will taste good.
Onions caramelize and add sweetness to food which is why they're a staple in French cuisine. Along with butter and salt. Italians use olive oil.
That said, what are we supposed to eat?
Low fat. Low calorie. Low sodium.
Shit that tastes like shit.
Luckily, evidence is coming up that salt ain't that big a deal for most folks. Though, all dietary research should be taken with some caution. It seems to be one of the most consistently false fields of research.
TIL that many people just don't have taste buds, or something.
Ackshuyally, lemon-pepper is great on steamed broccoli, cauliflower, and carrots, onion is great with pizza and pasta dishes without any added salt, sugar, or fat, and--although this a source of divorce, family feuds, and mini-Crusades and Jihads;in North Carolina--vinager-based barbecue sauces are delicious and diabetic-friendly.
It's just a matter of broadening one's tastes.
Excuse me, spellcheck vinegar-based barbecue sauce. I'm being brave doing this. Using those mere words in some circles is blasphemy! 🙂
Mustard-based barbecue sauce is the excrement of Satan.
At some point I learned that an egg is 70 calories. What a miracle. I could eat 30 eggs a day, and lose weight.
And probably also neighbors, friends, spouses, children, plus have your whole bouough declared a bio-hazard. Two eggs twice a week is sufficient for most happy swinging frames. Part of a balanced life.
It's not a flop to me. I'm always a fan of more information, and it has changed my behavior.
A take-out corn muffin that I used to buy in the morning sometimes, I previously would have guessed to have, at most, 450 calories. When the menu was changed to include the facts, I found out that it has 910 calories (before even any spread was added!). This corn muffin is great, but it is not worth 910 calories to me. More information is useful for those of us inclined to use it, even if most of the holi poli are not so inclined.
The same argument could be make about information for voters. Campaign finance regulations were apparently bad because they would reduce information available to voters. Never mind that most voters don't pay attention to any of it. That doesn't make the availability of the information bad.
McDonalds published a nutrition facts book starting in the low fat era (starting around 1994) and continued to do so for a long time. Any restaurant would supply one upon request. They have apparently been paying the costs to generate this information long before any laws were passed. It is different, of course, for smaller players, but availability of more information is always good!
This.
I don't think restaurants should be forced, but I hope that they do it voluntarily because it's really helpful.
Also, such labeling is not all that different from trademark law: a requirement that sellers identify what they are seeking correctly.
A 1000 calorie “coffee latte” is not actually a coffee latte, but some vile artificial concoction of fat, sugar and flavoring.
Except for very special occasions, I always order food based on calories when I eat out. But I also work out every day and eat healthy foods at home. My guess is that the people who are already calorie counting benefit from this rule.
Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.
All things in moderation.
Unless you have some specific medical condition (morbid obesity?) deciding what to eat at a restaurant based on the menu calorie count is ridiculous. Might as well order dry toast with a glass of water wash it down.
"Mandatory Menu Labeling Still a Flop
Calorie counts don't change behavior."
In fact, mandating calorie counts on menus at junk food chains have convinced and reinforced the attitudes and behaviors of most healthy Americans (i.e. those who are NOT overweight, obese or severely obese, and who rarely or never eat highly processed junk food).
Unfortunately for public health and free speech, half of Americans are now obese because they continue consuming/eating far more calories than they expend, and because woke public health officials/agencies are more concerned about being accused of "fat shaming" than admitting obesity, overconsumption of junk food and lack of exercise are now the leading cause of disease and death in America.
Since my wife and I primarily eat vegetables (6-10 servings daily), fruits (4-6 servings daily), nuts, beans, whole grains, seafood & dairy products, we very rarely go out to eat.
The only fast food chain I've eaten at the past decade is Subway, where I order all the vegetables on a sub roll.
Most Americans have terrible diets and get very little (if any) exercise.
You have knowledge of the diets of 330 million people?
So do you, there are plenty of publications and surveys. For example:
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nhanes/wweia.htm
CDC.GOV. Hahahahahahahahahaha
Have sex with your clothes on, wear a mask and social distance during mutual masturbation.
So ridiculous advice from the agency invalidates all scientific work done by them? Its literally a survey they are reporting the raw data for. I fail to see why you would think that is inaccurate. You don't seem to have any data to the contrary.
...and why, given the crap that has come out of the CDC not be at least a little suspicious of their advice?
Seems to be much more of a political organization than a scientific one.
Some people pay good money for that kind of action.
I can only find you one link. There are literally thousands.
1. The $1 billion is spent, unless you think the ink on packaging is significant. Consider it an investment in:
2. Needed information in what we can hope will be a change in American dietary habits, or is the author just accepting it as our future?
Still reasoning about the nation as a collective. Extreme obesity may be your future, it isn't mine.
all this foolishness and expense added, and there is mary a word about the dangerous junk in most of that fast food. Calories are NOT all created equal SOme are good for you, others are very dangrous.. but none of this is spelled out on those useless labels.