Juneteenth Is a Celebration for Everyone
Plus: Fentanyl copaganda, the perils of antitrust populism, a January 6 meme is born, and more...

A lot of people celebrated Juneteenth before the summer of 2021, but President Joe Biden last year declaring it a national holiday pushed this celebration of slavery's end into a much bigger spotlight. And Americans seem to still be struggling with what Juneteenth celebrations should mean.
Juneteenth—"America's other Independence Day"—marks the day in 1865 when enslaved black people in Galveston, Texas, learned that the Civil War had ended and they were officially free. Major General Gordon Granger delivered the news—some two months after the end of the Civil War and two years after the signing of the Emancipation Proclamation.
Ever quick to capitalize on new marketing opportunities, a lot of businesses are now launching Juneteenth-related merchandise, promotions, and events—and kicking off debate about whether this is merely eye roll–inducing or outright crass and wrong.
Meanwhile, states are still divided on whether government offices should be shut down on Juneteenth and whether public workers should get a paid holiday. "This year, nearly 20 states are expected to close state offices and give most of their public employees time off," notes NPR. "At least six states officially adopted the holiday over the past few months, including Connecticut, Colorado, Georgia, Maryland, South Dakota, Utah and Washington." Other state proposals to do the same have failed, including in Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina, and Tennessee.
Nonetheless, parades, concerts, and other events have been started in cities across the U.S., including many that formerly did not mark the occasion. This is giving more Americans than ever the opportunity to learn about and honor Juneteenth.
But aside from the basic history of the day, what should Americans learn and honor? Is this a day for black Americans—and black Americans only—to celebrate? For white Americans to reflect on and repent for predecessors' transgressions (or at least buy stuff from black-owned businesses)? For everyone to come together and appreciate how far the country has come? On social media, these questions have been a matter of hot debate.
Juneteenth isn't just for Black people. If you believe slavery was wrong then you should celebrate the end of slavery.
— Touré (@Toure) June 15, 2022
An underlying question is whether Juneteenth is a day to condemn America of yore for its wrongs, or a time to praise its ability to course-correct.
"Juneteenth is more than a holiday. It is not just a commemoration of the end of slavery. It is a day that celebrates America's incredible capacity to self-correct by applying the timeless principles at our country's core," the woman known as "the grandmother of Juneteenth," Opal Lee, writes in a Washington Post op-ed co-authored with Baptist pastor DeForest "Buster" Soaries.
In the op-ed, they worry that Juneteenth celebrations will "fall prey to the division and distraction that are tearing America down" when, "by all rights, Juneteenth should be a day of great unity." They suggest that "Juneteenth asks Americans to recognize that our nation's principles are neither grossly hypocritical nor naively aspirational. We have inherited lofty yet practical ideals, and it falls to us to implement them as best we can,"
"Juneteenth ain't a Black thing, not a Texas thing. It's about freedom for everybody," Lee told Time.
"Juneteenth is a civic reminder to pause and appreciate how far the nation has come," writes Theodore R. Johnson of the Brennan Center for Justice. "If Independence Day on July 4th is a day to honor all the nation got right, Juneteenth is a call to always right the things it gets wrong."
Some activists are taking the day to remind Americans about wrongs the country is still perpetuating, including incarcerated people being forced to work for little or no pay.
The "End the Exception" campaign aims to put a stop to this. "People who are incarcerated and detained across our country are disproportionately Black and brown and forced to work for little to no pay under the threat of additional punitive measures, such as the loss of family visits and solitary confinement," states its website.
We're getting ready to celebrate Juneteenth, a holiday marking the end of slavery, but was it? No. An exception in the 13th Amendment still allows slavery as punishment for crime, subjecting over a million to slavery. Tell Congress to #EndTheException at https://t.co/SSuXKubcjw! pic.twitter.com/5g3MpInmf7
— Worth Rises (@WorthRises) June 15, 2022
A new American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) report called "Captive Labor: Exploitation of Incarcerated Workers" explores prison labor practices in the U.S.
"From the moment they enter the prison gates, incarcerated people lose the right to refuse to work," notes the ACLU. "This is because the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which protects against slavery and involuntary servitude, explicitly excludes from its reach those held in confinement due to a criminal conviction. The roots of modern prison labor can be found in the ratification of this exception clause at the end of the Civil War, which disproportionately encouraged the criminalization and effective re-enslavement of Black people during the Jim Crow era, with impacts that persist to this day."
With Juneteenth approaching, it's a good time to discuss change. It's not hyperbole to say the prison industrial complex is modern day slavery. The 13th amendment abolished slavery and involuntary servitude EXCEPT for those convicted of a crime. It's time to end the exception https://t.co/wDFC3tBxTr
— Olayemi Olurin (@msolurin) June 16, 2022
FREE MINDS
More cop hysteria about supposed secondhand exposure to fentanyl, this time in Kansas City. Police claimed they had to give an officer five doses of Narcan spray to stop the "overdose" after the officer touched fentanyl-laced pills.
"PSA: If you give 20 mg of naloxone and they're still not better then it's because they weren't opioid toxic. Hope this clears that up!" tweeted Ryan Marino, a medical toxicologist, emergency physician, and addiction medicine specialist at University Hospitals Cleveland Medical Center.
I will repeat: If this was actually possible, this would happen in medical settings too. It does not. It is cops faking it or having panic attacks or just snorting fent https://t.co/owiTqnSxnp
— Jerry Iannelli (@jerryiannelli) June 17, 2022
The idea that police are frequently harmed by incidental exposure to fentanyl—by being near it, or briefly touching it—has become a popular urban legend and "copaganda" (police-derived propaganda) in recent years. See also: "Why Do the Media Keep Uncritically Repeating Implausible Police Fentanyl Overdose Stories?"
FREE MARKETS
"Antitrust populists seek to deploy antitrust law for redistributive purposes to achieve 'fair' outcomes," writes University of Southern California law professor Jonathan M. Barnett in a new op-ed at The Hill:
In place of the prevailing approach to antitrust law, which demands hard evidence of competitive harm, antitrust populists tend to offer platitudes about non-economic values that are not amenable to objective assessment and sometimes fall outside the plausible bounds of competition policy. This willful abandonment of evidentiary rigor for regulatory fiat may be precisely the point. By adopting subjective principles that cannot be objectively assessed, enforcers would be relieved from having to prove very much at all before taking action against an allegedly anticompetitive practice.
Pending policy initiatives threaten to convert the largest digital platforms into quasi-utilities governed by regulators that are unbound by the safeguards imposed by the consumer welfare standard and the rule-of-reason test. That approach would enable regulatory micromanagement and discourage the entrepreneurship that drives the U.S. innovation economy. It may not be an accident that the U.S., which has operated under an antitrust regime with a high evidentiary threshold for intervention, is the home of almost every global tech leader (outside China), while Europe, which has operated under an antitrust regime with a substantially lower evidentiary threshold, is the home of almost none.
Antitrust reform reflects legitimate concerns over the inherent tendencies of digital markets to converge on a handful of leading providers. However, the wholesale dismissal of institutional safeguards against enforcement error risks converting the U.S. economy into an administered market in which winners and losers are selected by regulatory discretion rather than competitive forces. That is not what antitrust law is about.
FOLLOWUP
Updates from the third public hearing of the House Select Committee investigating January 6:
• President Donald Trump and his aides "knew that it was not legal for his vice president, Mike Pence, to attempt to thwart Joe Biden's victory on Jan. 6, 2021, but they nonetheless mounted an unrelenting pressure campaign that did not abate even after rioters stormed the Capitol and threatened Pence's life," The Washington Post sums up from yesterday's hearing.
• Trump lawyer John Eastman took the lead on this push. On January 11, 2021, he sought a preemptive pardon from Trump for his role in all this. In an email to Rudy Giuliani, Eastman wrote: "I've decided that I should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works."
• Eastman's emailed statement has quickly become a Twitter meme:
"I've decided that I should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works." pic.twitter.com/FnP05O68bS
— Nancy Rommelmann (@NancyRomm) June 17, 2022
https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1537563152656703488
"I've decided that I should be on the pardon list, if that is still in the works." pic.twitter.com/TQFj3bSZ9i
— Jen Taub (@jentaub) June 17, 2022
• A former lawyer for Pence said the former vice president never considered acquiescing with Trump's demands not to certify the Electoral College results.
QUICK HITS
A jury convicted a Queens man of murder in the death of an NYPD detective during a robbery gone wrong
A few issues: 1) The man did not have a gun, 2) he wasn't even inside the store, and 3) the NYPD detective was shot by his fellow officershttps://t.co/Z7UA4jk5Yu
— philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) June 16, 2022
• The American Medical Association has "adopted policy recognizing that it is a violation of human rights when government intrudes into medicine and impedes access to safe, evidence-based reproductive health services, including abortion and contraception."
• A Maryland attorney is accusing the FBI of inflating marijuana arrests in its Uniform Crime Reporting data.
• "The F.D.A. appears poised to authorize Moderna's vaccine for children younger than 6 and Pfizer's for those younger than 5 as soon as Friday," according to The New York Times.
• Cryptocurrency exchange Kraken invites employees offended by company culture to take a buyout.
• "The Department of Justice on Wednesday formally asked a federal court to limit the scope of baseball's antitrust exemption, the latest challenge to a century-old Supreme Court decision cherished by major league owners but increasingly criticized beyond the commissioner's office," reports the Los Angeles Times.
• Five Texas cities will have marijuana decriminalization on their ballots this fall.
• Overheard in D.C.:
"… Some people are basically being paid to maintain Russian super-yachts on behalf of the United States government. It's unbelievable."https://t.co/5RRyqNOQJw
— Jonathan Guyer (@mideastXmidwest) June 16, 2022
• What could go wrong?
Today, President Biden is issuing an EO creating a task force to stop online harassment and abuse including "harmful and sometimes illegal behavior" that "disproportionately affects women, girls, people of color, and LGBTQI+ individuals."https://t.co/pXZbDI1RA7
— Scott Greenfield (@ScottGreenfield) June 16, 2022
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Oh yeah, I've got a three day weekend. I'll take it.
...and of course we'll all be singing the "Black National Anthem".
Sarc will be drinking colt 45.
...with a Thunderbird or Ripple chaser before the shooting starts.
You mean ethnic folk dancing.
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Celebrating the end of slavery is good but it’s a stupid name.
A low brow don’t know what day or reason kind of name.
Odd that it’s celebrated on Father’s Day, considering the black multiple baby mommas culture.
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Mad dog 20/20. Get it right.
St Pauli N.A.
Old English.
Gross. I'm on the water wagon right now, but even when I wasn't I never liked high gravity beers. They're just nasty.
So you did give your sponsor a call? Good for you buddy.
And, since it's now a federal holiday, the " 'teenth" falls on the 20th and isn't a " 'teenth" at all.
Hey, just found out that in NJ government employees have today and Monday off to celebrate in style.
And that means a hell of a lot to me. Thank you slaves, for the sacrifices that got us a day off.
And BBQ! Don’t forget the BBQ!
If you're white you aren't welcome.
JesseAz
June.17.2022 at 10:26 am
Flag Comment Mute User
Melina Abdullah
@DocMellyMel
Attention white people…
Please don’t ask if you can come to the cookout…
#Juneteenth is freedom day for Black folks.
It should be #Reparations day for white folks.
I am white and I have attended Juneteenth BBQs, welcomed there by African-American hosts.
You're the whitest person here and I believe that you have attended Juneteenth BBQs, but I find it hard to believe that anyone has ever welcomed you.
I'm sure they'd welcome him before some Canadian troll that crawled out from under a frozen bridge.
No, you're from Maine, you ridiculous drunk.
Now tell us all about "TEXTBOOK ad hominem" again.
A textbook ad hominem is when you refute an argument by arguing against the person, not what they say.
For example I say "The TEA Party fizzled out because it was coopted by talk radio" and you say "That's what the DNC said."
You haven't made an argument against what I said. Instead you're saying that because I'm in agreement with the DNC, then I must be wrong. Furthermore it's an ad hominem argument against the DNC because you're saying they're wrong because they're Democrats.
Nothing in your argument refutes what was said. Your entire argument is based upon a personal attribute, association with Democrats, not the substance of the argument.
That is a textbook ad hominem argument.
Thanks again for not only providing an opportunity to show everyone that you can't "win" arguments without fallacies (that's what leftists do), but also to show how you double-down on those fallacies with more personal attacks while never ever actually addressing what I actually said.
Your turn. I won't respond. You can have as many last words as you want. All you're doing is showing the world that you're an ass.
Holy fuck. That isn't an ad hominem you retarded fuck.
He is stating a truth. That was the dnc narrative. He did not dismiss any argument or try to refute it.
God damn man. Just fall on your sword already.
Sarc: I like the color blue.
Ml: the sky is blue.
Sarc: stop using ad hominems
Everyone: thats not an ad hominem you retarded fuck.
Let me fix one thing.
"For example I say "The TEA Party fizzled out because it was coopted by talk radio" and you say "That's what the DNC said, so no."
It's that last part "so, no" that made it an ad hominem. I'm wrong because that's what the DNC said, and they're wrong because they're Democrats.
He is stating a truth. That was the dnc narrative.
So I've been told. It was a conclusion I came up with on my own based upon what I saw.
He did not dismiss any argument or try to refute it.
He did when he said "so, no."
God damn man. Just fall on your sword already.
As soon as you and your troll buddies stop making fallacious arguments.
Sarc: I like the color blue.
Ml: the sky is blue.
Sarc: stop using ad hominems
Everyone: thats not an ad hominem you retarded fuck.
More like this.
sarc: The sky is blue.
ML: That's what Democrats say, so no.
sarc: So I'm wrong because that's what Democrats say? Sounds like you're arguing against me, not what I said.
ML: YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR FALLACIES! YOU'RE STUPID! STOP ACCUSING ME OF FALLACIES! YOU'RE THE ONE WHO USES FALLACIES!
fucking html tags.
Even after everyone corrected this idiot yesterday, he's still going to cling like a retarded monkey to his original claim.
https://reason.com/2022/06/16/recession-virtual-certainty-as-interest-rates-spike/?comments=true#comment-9547626
Can't teach a dumb dog new tricks.
So far your only explanation for me being wrong is that the Democrats said the same thing.
If you could tell me why what I said was wrong then that would be a totally different deal.
But all you can say is "You agree with Democrats!"
No explanation as to why I'm wrong or why they are wrong, other than personal attributes.
That's the definition of an ad hominem argument.
"You're wrong because of you."
Now if you want to clear things up and tell me why my statement about the TEA Party was wrong, then I'd be happy to discuss it.
But so far I'm wrong because of me, not what I said.
I admit when I'm wrong. It's what men do. I've never seen you or any of your troll buddies admit to being wrong. The reason why is pretty clear.
He made no statement pro or con regarding your statement. He pointed out that was the dnc narrative. He was correct. He didn't say that made your view right or wrong. He just tainted out it was also the narrative of the left.
You injected argumentation by claiming he was calling you a Democrat when he did not. And even if he was, it wouldn't be an ad hominem because he didn't refute your statement in that case either.
Ad hominems require someone to try to refute an argument. He did not do so in that post.
Please learn what fallacies actually are before throwing out claims of them.
God damn is is tedious.
I swear Jesse, I've never seen a guy make the same mistake over and over and over again like sarcasmic. I've also never seen a guy completely forget his own statements so many times... sometimes just hours apart.
It's like he's operating on RAM without a hard drive.
He is the dumb kid in class trying to sound smart.
Ideas!
Still waiting for you to have one.
Thanks pee wee.
...because you brought the booze?
I may well have. I don’t remember.
You better hope no one has your picture at any of those events because on odd years you'll be accused of cultural misappropriation for going. Haven't you learned yet you can't win?
I fucking wish. Third floor apartment with a wooden deck. Can't grill unless I want to do it in the parking lot.
That’s not right!
They make anti-burn mats for BBQs, specifically for wooden decks.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/The-Original-Grill-Pad-30-in-L-x-42-in-W-Fiber-Cement-Rectangle-Textured-Earth-Tone-Brown-Grill-Mat/999904481
I doubt my landlord, who is a former chief of the fire department, would give a shit. I could get evicted for burning a candle. It's in the lease. Thanks for the thought though.
Poor sarc.
IT tech support doesn't pay what it used to.
Why do you assume it involves BBQ and not indoor cooking, especially on hot-ass days like we've had even before Summer has officially begun?
Cite, Sealion Mike 😉
Not an assumption. Personal experience.
Same. I'm white and I work with plenty of black people and none of them seem to think anything more of it than that. Therefore it's already just like Memorial day and July 4th.
"A new American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) report called 'Captive Labor: Exploitation of Incarcerated Workers' explores prison labor practices in the U.S."
Absolutely indefensible.
Those prisoners should be freed so they can work for minimum wage for Koch Industries.
#EmptyThePrisons
#CheapLaborAboveAll
Does your 2 month limit on jail time apply to the J6 protesters?
Participating in a HEAVILY ARMED INSURRECTION is one of the very few crimes for which this Koch / Reason libertarian recommends a sentence longer than 2 months. Life in prison sounds about right.
#1/6WasWorseThan9/11
If you think about it, if you flip and reverse 1/6 you have something pretty close to 9/11
Meanwhile, the UK has approved extradition of Julian Assange to the US. According to the WSJ:
"“The U.K. courts have not found that it would be oppressive, unjust or an abuse of process to extradite Mr. Assange. Nor have they found that extradition would be incompatible with his human rights,” the U.K. government said Friday."
WTF? I thought legal decisions had to be based on interpretation of relevant law and evidence. This sounds like an assessment of pop woke criteria. Assange, and us, are truly fucked.
Isn't that typical for extradition? Interpretation of relevant law and evidence would (presumably) happen in the jurisdiction in question.
this sounds like an assessment of pop woke criteria
Basically the guiding force of our culture, fully manipulated in the USA by the prominent political party. What could go wrong
Those areas are the additional grounds in British law for denying extradition after the basic legal requirements are met.
The basic legal requirements for extradition under the US-UK extradition treaty are:
1) The relevant crime has a potential sentence of at least one year in prison in both the US and UK.
2) There is reasonable suspicion the person being extradited is guilty of the crime.
Which means that the US can, under the treaty and UK law, demand extradition from the UK on less evidence than is necessary, in US law, to support a domestic arrest.
Juneteenth aka White Saviour day
"Juneteenth Is a Celebration for Everyone"
It's a trap! I expect that anyone not black enough who actively celebrates Juneteenth (which I noticed does NOT trigger spell check) will be cited for cultural appropriation and put on the list for reparations.
And if you don’t celebrate, you are obviously racist.
Double reparations!
Melina Abdullah
@DocMellyMel
Attention white people…
Please don’t ask if you can come to the cookout…
#Juneteenth is freedom day for Black folks.
It should be #Reparations day for white folks.
Totally not racist.
Good racism.
also
The only way to stop a bad guy with racism is a good guy with racism.
That made me genuinely LOL.
"The only way to stop a bad guy with racism is a good guy with racism."
That sentence is essentially the perfect summary of Kendi's "how to be an antiracist".
I guess she tell the family that invited my sister to their Juneteeth BBQ that they're not being sufficiently bitchy about their celebrating.
I don’t celebrate it - because there were still slaves in Delaware
This. Slavery didn't end until Jan 31 1865
It was the end of slavery in the Confederate states so in a sense was the end of the Civil War.
We could also have chosen the ratification of the Thirteenth Amendment, though that falls close to Christmas. The date of the Emancipation Proclamation already is a national holiday (for other reasons) but September 22 is the date of the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation. I'm okay with any of them, including Juneteenth, though the name sounds a bit silly.
No, it wasn't the end of slavery in the Confederate states. The Emancipation Proclamation didn't free the slaves state by state. Either all the slaves had already been free for 2-1/2 years, in Texas and all other areas that were in revolt (not only the Confederacy but sections of the border states) , or it merely freed the slaves where the Union army went and could enforce it. The Union had not reached the rest of Texas yet, nor many, many spots all over the Confederacy that had been bypassed by the military operations.
Of course, slaves weren't yet free in Delaware. They were free in Maryland only because the legislature had decided to end slavery before they were forced to. They could have gone back on that decision anytime - as could the new President for the occupied states and sections of the border states. Slavery in the US was only completely and permanently ended when the 13th Amendment was ratified in Dec. 1865. We should have been celebrating that date ever since, but celebrating the day one Union general made an announcement in one city is just silly.
And, anyway, Junteenth absolutely IS a Texas specific celebration, because it is NOT the date the last slaves in the US were freed.
The Emancipation proclamation only applied in the Confederacy, there were legal slaves in the US, in Delaware and Kentucky until that October, when the 13th amendment was ratified. Six whole months after "Juneteenth".
That's why I find Junteenth objectionable. It's bad history.
Celebrate both. The US needs more holidays.
Give me Boxing Day or give me death!
The Twelve Days of Christmas really need to be twelve days again.
That's why I find Junteenth objectionable. It's bad history.
Did you know that the American Revolution actually started quite some time prior to July 4, 1776?
DOH! You beat me to it.
There was fighting in several colonies against bad Royally-appointed governors and unpopular policies, but these were uncoordinated attempts to reform the colonial governments, not to replace them. The several little revolutions only formally became one revolution, and the goal only formally became a new government separate from England, when representatives of the people of each colony met and issued the Declaration of Independence.
"That's why I find Junteenth objectionable. It's bad history."
This seems like nitpicking to me. Did you know that the US actually wasn't independent on July 4th, 1776? They actually voted for independency on July 2. And of course, fighting in the US wouldn't actually stop until around October, 1781. And the actual treaty formalizing American Independence wasn't signed for another 2 years.
Any of those dates could "officially" be considered Independence Day. But we celebrate all of it on July 4th because the symbolic importance of the Declaration was "Good Enough" as a proxy.
Would the Emancipation Proclamation date, or the Ratification of the 13th Amendment be more accurate or merely good enough as Juneteenth? Sure. But then Juneteenth is just as good as any day for symbolic purposes. *And* it has the (coincidental, I'm totally sure) benefit of being in a month that doesn't already have a federal holliday.
Juneteenth - victimization day for people who weren't the victims
...and reparations day for those who have nothing to reparate.
My great-great-great grandparents moved from Rhineland to Indiana in 1860 and immediately joined the Union army. (Well, the men did, anyway)
So the women were racists?
Well, I mean they were German.
Ever quick to capitalize on new marketing opportunities, a lot of businesses are now launching Juneteenth-related merchandise, promotions, and events—and kicking off debate about whether this is merely eye roll–inducing or outright crass and wrong.
If I were in business, my Juneteenth ad copy would say:
"Well, Hell! Freedom means the right of consenting adults to buy and sell non-sapient products and to rent consensual labor services, right? What's wrong with that? Come on down and exercise your freedom today! (And all who pass my right-swipe get both discounts and bonuses!)" 🙂
Exactly. We could be celebrating freedom, individual/private property rights and Capitalism. Instead, we get this Marxist drivel.
Bingo! I'm using my 3 day weekend to catch up on housecleaning and shopping.
Hey Peanuts are you enjoying this Biden economy as much as I am? Check your portfolio. It should be much higher now than at any point in the abysmal Trump economy. If not your financial advisor must be sabotaging you.
#TemporarilyFillingInForButtplug
A 2 trillion dollar loss is no big deal.
"Some activists are taking the day to remind Americans about wrongs the country is still perpetuating, including incarcerated people being forced to work for little or no pay."
Right. All that forced labor is too much like punishment, and interferes with personal workouts and DIY tattooing.
Do you think forced labor is justifiable from a libertarian perspective? If so, how?
For convicted, incarcerated felons?
For anyone.
I'll bite. Labor as a form of punishment for criminal acts doesn't seem particularly unlibertarian. In fact, I'm not clear it's an argument on the libertarian/not libertarian spectrum at all.
Unless you're removing the possibility of reciprocation by the law at all, all punitive measures restrict the rights and impose things upon people. I mean, the basic form of punishment is imprisonment, which is FAR greater a break of one's civil rights than unpaid work. The fact that very few seem to take much issue with Community Service as a punishment for criminal acts, seems to indicate that it's not unpaid labor that bothers folks.
And so, I will put it back on you. Libertarianism does tend to believe in law, and some rightful authority of the state to enforce it. It's a distinguishing feature from anarchism. What, philosophically, does libertarianism assert that includes imprisonment, but precludes labor as a punishment for crimes?
Even in the spectrum of retributional vs. correctional justice one can make an argument on either side for labor as a component of it.
So, I would argue it's more a prudential question, or even a moral question, but one that is not absolutely grounded in libertarianism.
Unless you're removing the possibility of reciprocation by the law at all, all punitive measures restrict the rights and impose things upon people.
A fine also being essentially an appropriation of your labor, but ex post facto.
Have you ever heard of someone who, upon conviction of a crime against his fellow citizens, is sentenced to something called 'community service'?
Yes. That's a type of forced labor. Is that justifiable from a libertarian perspective? If so, how?
What about people who have to pay a fine. Their labor is going to the state through payment.
What about people who have to pay taxes? Isn't that forcing 10, 20, 30 or 40 percent of their labor to support government bureacrats?
Jeff doesn't think his sophist views through that deeply.
But only half the people pay that one
It's pretty clear that he's talking about being coerced into working directly for someone you wouldn't otherwise choose to work for.
Putting the State apparatus in the middle doesn't make it not so.
It clearly distorts what jeff was saying, which was the point considering the source.
If it's a clearly stated penalty for breaking the law, why not?
From the perspective of a prisoner, would you rather be idle and bored, or busy doing something? Personally I'd rather be busy.
Or, would you rather spend time doing 'community service', pay a fine, or be locked up?
Is forced labor a form of rehabilitation or punishment?
both
Do you think forced labor is justifiable from a libertarian perspective? If so, how?
Yes. 1. Contract (violation thereof). 2. Initiation of aggression.
Jesus Fucking Christ how dumb are you?
1. Contract (violation thereof). 2. Initiation of aggression.
Why don't you be more specific here. From a libertarian perspective, under what circumstances do you think a contract violation could justifiably lead to forced labor?
One in which the contract stipulates, "penalty for breach of this contract by Party A shall result in Party A laboring at the direction of Party B for Y period." Or if the breaching party cannot simply meet the previously agreed upon terms (arguably constitutes fraud on the breacher's part, but that would be an extremely rigid interpretation of the term).
under what circumstances do you think a contract violation could justifiably lead to forced labor?
Uh, any/all. It's difficult to be both more specific and generate the sort of explanatory power that encompasses all of contracting, but any time either party willingly contracted for goods and/or services and failed to deliver or receive them. The failing party can/should be able to be compelled to fulfill the contract. Again, difficult to account for all contracting up front and forced labor may not be necessary in light of remuneration or other solution, which is why arbitration exists and has existed since time immemorial, but, core to the point, libertarianism is pretty explicit about when precepts have been voided and restraints loosed and doesn't, by any means, removed forced labor from any/all tables.
Hey, Jeff, if you woke up on a deserted island with sufficient resources and you actually had to work to acquire food and shelter, is the universe "forcing" you to work?
I thought we were clear here that by the term "forced labor", it was understood that the forcing here was being done by the state, not by the "universe".
Words can mean anything.
Sure, you can parse reality any way you like.
How about this. You commit a serious crime. You are found guilty by due process and sent to prison as punishment. The prison is a deserted island (or a caged-off part of the world). Your sustenance, and survival, are up to you. Are you forced to work?
Or this. Just about every mature, non-socialist leech adult accepts that they have to do something to support themselves. Why should prisoners be exempt?
Absolutely, as penalty for a crime or as an agreed condition compelled due to defaulting on a contract.
Do you believe Alimony is a violation of rights? What about child support?
There is no forced labor in prison.
Prisoners work to pay for the costs incurred by forcing us to incarcerate them.
Unlike every free American, prisoners do not get to choose what work to do. They do not work in a free market and are generally paid much less than market wages. That's a lot like slavery, even if the prisoners compete for a limited number of lousy jobs because prison is _boring_.
_But_ convicts forfeited some of their rights by violating the rights of others (aside from all those in prison for drug dealing, prostitution, gambling, money laundering, wrapping imported shrimp in plastic instead of paper, etc.) The problem isn't that convicts have lost their economic rights as well as their rights to free movement and RKBA, it's that so many laws are aimed at protecting us from ourselves - if not simply to exalt the power of politicians and bureaucrats - rather than protecting our rights from antisocial individuals.
Yes, in the commission of a crime, you abridged the rights of others. Therefore your rights must be abridged as well.
Like you do even understand what civilization is?
Does he think we shouldn't have laws at all? I don't even know what kind of question that is. Does he believe in restitution?
If you steal from someone and you can't pay them back, you absolutely should be forced to work to make them whole again. That's simple justice-restore the victim. And because you wouldn't do it on your own, the state absolutely can force you to.
This is so insane I can't wrap my head around it.
If someone commits a crime, what should happen to that person?
It depends. A person who has demonstrated that they pose an extreme hazard should be incarcerated or killed. Those who have caused monetary damages should be held liable, and forced to compensate victims. Others should be exiled.
From an economic point of view forced labor is better than just incarceration because the people aren't idle. They're being productive.
My problem with community service and such is that it's just a way for cronies to get free workers, and creates perverse incentives.
In the town where I grew up, the rule was that the community service had to be completed at a non-profit, which I think for the most part eliminated a lot of that perverse incentive.
I would say only to pay restitution to the victim(s) of the convict's crime(s) toward the victims. And the courts should administer the convict's "tab" and working conditions so that punishment is not made indefinite or cruel and unusual by moving the goalposts or other trickery.
And, of course, victimless acts should not be illegal or a crime and thus no punishment should occur or accrue.
There are two concerns here from a libertarian perspective. The first is "Does the government have the right to punish citizens". The second is, "Does the government have a fiduciary responsibility for citizens it is punishing?"
For the first concern, if you concede that the government ought to have the power to punish, then forced labor is assumed. Very simply, if the Government imprisons you, that alone is FORCED LABOR. It is forcing you to do something with your productive labor without your permission. Whether that is sitting idle, or breaking rocks, you are being compelled to spend your energy in a manner against your will. If they give you options, they are still compelling you- just in a less restrictive manner.
That said, I think there is a libertarian argument to the responsibilities a government accepts when it takes a criminal into its care. When you take over someone's rights, you have a responsibility to act in that person's best interests, and NEVER put your interests ahead of theirs. That is the case when we are talking about consensual arrangements (like a living will, or estate trust) as well as in non-consensual cases like child-rearing and prison. In all these cases, a Trustee is taking over the rights of that person to act, and thus have a fiduciary responsibility.
With that said, I think on a case by case basis, you could determine which "compelled labor" is acceptable within that framework. If the government is using these people to build roads at below market rate, then that is likely a violation of their Trustee status. Because the government is benefiting from their work in a way that is a clear conflict of interest. But work around a prison for upkeep? Work that will help the person reform, or develop skills for the future? These are all things that I could see being acceptable within the framework of a Trustee releationship.
HAHA! I love playing 'Guess What's In the Grey Box'.
It looks like jeffy shit his pants and there is a whole thread of people standing around examining the diarrhea and discussing what he may have eaten.
'Mute User' is your friend, people.
Josey asked yesterday if this is what being ratioed looks like. I think that’s an applicable term.
Lying Jeffy got ratioed again.
"Why Do the Media Keep Uncritically Repeating Implausible Police Fentanyl Overdose Stories?"
1. Reporters are mostly stupid.
2. Stories like that are too juicy not to print.
3. Back-the-blue types work really hard to cover up addict cops.
For the same reason the media uncritically repeat, favor or promote any of the implausible, obviously false, and/or disproved stories they run. News media is largely made up of people who chose to promote a narrative over facts. ENB's lack of self-awareness writing a valid criticism about bias alongside her typical biases is fairly amusing.
I suppose you could be generous, and call ENB unaware. On the other hand, she might be very aware, and just another lying, manipulative asshole.
Why does it have to be either/or? I think she has the capacity to be both.
#Reasonreportersaregreat
ENB constantly prints stories that are compleatly false. The best ones are the ones that robby refuted the day before ENB says it's true
I thought the best ones were on the Seattle riots when Rommelman would contradict her after the fact with actual reporting from the scene.
But both are fun though.
"Why Do the Media Keep Uncritically Repeating Implausible Police Fentanyl Overdose Stories?"
I don't know, maybe for the same reason this "journalist" uses twitter for every single source.
"that "disproportionately affects women, girls, people of color, and LGBTQI+ individuals.""
Just say "not white men" already
"Not White Men" sounds like the desired target, and perhaps new name, for the Democratic Party.
Rap band name?
Just say "not white men" already
The disparate application of "Don't say gay." and "Don't say straight white guys." is both astounding and transparent.
'President Donald Trump and his aides "knew that it was not legal for his vice president, Mike Pence, to attempt to thwart Joe Biden's victory on Jan. 6, 2021'
Oh, so now the criteria about actions related to the 2020 election is legality?
Raskin got called put by a j6 witness for objecting multiple times in prior elections to certification. Was pretty amusing.
"A jury convicted a Queens man of murder in the death of an NYPD detective during a robbery gone wrong
"A few issues: 1) The man did not have a gun, 2) he wasn't even inside the store, and 3) the NYPD detective was shot by his fellow officers"
Issues? We have only two options in our current new-age morality:
1. He is guilty because he is black.
2. He is not guilty because he is black.
He is not the first or only person caught up on murder charges for participating in a crime.
“But he didn’t have a gun” is the stupidest thing I have heard in a while.
Felony Murder = you killed someone thru your callous illegal initiation of violence against them
I don't broadly disagree with the felony murder rule, but this one really effectively turns the felony murder rule into QI. He didn't initiate violence. His partner didn't initiate violence. The cop who pulled the trigger initiated the violence. There may be extenuating circumstance to justify why the cop is not guilty of felony murder, but to wholly transfer it to the dude standing outside the store unarmed? I would say that fits the spirit of 'cruel and unusual'.
I think that if you can show that the cop acted negligently, then obviously this guy ought to get off.
Instead of shooting an unarmed black man, the cop shot a cop, and the unarmed black man got charged. Seems legit.
That would be option 1.
If only the driver had been white or either cop had been black, there would be justice.
Yeah, the fact that Eastman was still pushing for Pence to reject the electors from those 7 states even *after the riot* is rather breath-taking.
Eastman must have known that what he was doing was wrong. But, you know, the ends justify the means. "The Constitution is not a suicide pact" and all that.
“Breathtaking”
Oh, my word, I believe I’m getting the vapors!
He still believes on the unarmed insurrection.
Ignore the objections in 2000, 2004, 2016 or any of the dozens of Elias lawsuits.
THAT WAS DIFFERENT!
Lying Jeffy needs a fainting couch. But it needs to be reinforced with steel. You know, because he’s fat.
AND he misspelled "rawther".
Nope, not really, depending on your outlook of the riot. If you believed there was actual election fraud, you might have seen Jan 6 as just the first in a potential series of riots across the nation. Then you would think it's imperative to make a symbolic gesture of caution in order to assure show people you're making sure to get it right.
I don't actually buy that, of course. It very publicly caves to rioters, sending the message that political violence is likely to achieve your ends. I also know there was no way the electors were going to be decertified at that point-the states would have challenged far in advance of Jan. 6 if any was coming. But I can also imagine that mindset, it's not beyond comprehension.
I'm finally coming around to see how those unarmed, no-plan-having, rioters might have taken over the country. If it were up to brave souls like AOC they might have handed over the key to the "Levers of Power Room" or however they control the government.
I mean, she still gets a bustle in her hedgerow just remembering the trauma of unarmed shouters in a building somewhat *near* the one she was in. I don't know how she carries on.
If it was wrong and/or illegal to not certify those electors, whether or not there was a riot should be immaterial. If it wasn't wrong and/or illegal to not certify those electors, whether or not there was a riot should be immaterial.
You can't say it's okay for the cops to shoot unarmed suspects, just because some protests against cops shooting unarmed suspects got out of hand.
You can't?
chemjeff radical individualist
February.9.2021 at 8:56 am
Flag Comment Mute User
What is there to talk about?
From a libertarian perspective, Ashli Babbett was trespassing, and the officers were totally justified to shoot trespassers. Again from a libertarian perspective, the officers would have been justified in shooting every single trespasser. That would not have been wise or prudent, of course.
They were all trespassers trying to be where they weren't supposed to be.
Well, would you just look at that.
He is against forced labor for prisoners though.
We're in a very "ends-justify-means" mindset these days. Few limiting principles, lots of Armageddon.
Kill or be killed.
^. no one fucking cares except hyperventilating democrats who treat their party like a sport team and journalists, which are a subset.
'The American Medical Association has "adopted policy recognizing that it is a violation of human rights when government intrudes into medicine and impedes access to safe, evidence-based reproductive health services, including abortion and contraception."'
Do we need to tell the AMA that abortion is the opposite of reproduction?
Or just rewrite their statement:
"It is a violation of human rights when government intrudes into medicine and impedes access to care-free sex, including abortion and contraception.
What about when government intrudes into medicine and forces experimental medical procedures?
"It is a violation of human rights when government intrudes into medicine and
impedes access to care-free sex, including abortion and contraception.imposes vaccine and mask mandates.I don't know. Did mask mandates and other restrictions impede your reproductive health?
Made it harder to pick up chicks. Does that count?
Sure, and now the AMA has your back.
In England you weren't even supposed to go visit someone you weren't already living with. And some people were meek enough to comply.
But not the guy responsible for the panic.
Quite posssibly.
Threatened pence's life? When, how, and who? Where is the evidence? The ridiculous exclamations from a few dim bulbs do not rise to the level of true threat, and giving this bullshit consideration erodes any claim to libertarianism one may make. This insistence on taking the out-groups' statements of which one disapproves as criminal has been an ugly ongoing trend and blight on individual rights, so buck up, ENB. Further, living in a fantasy world does not make one's fantasies reality.
Thoughts and words are dangerous.
Well, yes. I expect to be unpersoned and sent to the gulag by president for life ocasio-cortez soon after the Great Awokening.
Get woke! Thoughts and words are violence.
As is silence.
You know, it is possible to threaten Pence's life, or anyone's life, without that threat rising to the level of a "true threat" that may be legally actionable.
If it isnt a true threat why the fuck do you care?
If it isn't an actual threat, it's not a threat, it's free speech. And "hang that crooked politician" needs to be considered free speech if free speech is going to have any meaning.
Maybe when an ordinary citizen says it. When the President, and Veep’s boss, says it publicly to a mob of rioters, it carries more weight.
How about when the POTUS spokesperson encourages illegal demonstrations, that bring unhinged would be murderers?
How about the Senate Majority Leader?
How about when the VPOTUS bails murderers out of jail?
Oooo now do the Congressional softball game. Or the Supreme Court Justices protests. Or the batty Maxine Waters speech specifically calling to chase and harass people who didn’t agree with her narrative!
Trump never said, "Hang Mike Pence." The crowd did.
Trump in fact said to march peacefully.
Yes, I know.
What he did say: “Maybe our supporters have the right idea.” Followed by opining that Pence deserved to be hanged.
And then tweeting, “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done…” even though he knew there was a mob of rioters threatening to hang Pence at the time he tweeted it.
Mike Laursen's Handy Guide to Incitement
Peace and Love
"there will be blood in the streets” - Loretta Lynch
“Who says protests have to be peaceful“ - Cuomo
“There needs to be unrest in the streets” - Ayanna Pressley
“Protesters should not give up” - Kamala Harris
“I just don’t know why they aren’t uprising all over this country“ - Nancy Pelosi
“You get out and create a crowd and you push back on them, tell them they are not welcome“ - Maxine Waters
Death Threats and Incitement
“Go home with love and peace, remember this day forever“ - Donald J Trump
Do you think that means every thing ever uttered by a trump supporter he supported?
The American Medical Association has "adopted policy recognizing that it is a violation of human rights when government intrudes into medicine and impedes access to safe, evidence-based reproductive health services, including abortion and contraception."
That's wonderful. I'm glad to see they're so passionate about BODILY AUTONOMY and MEDICAL PRIVACY.
Of course conservatives will seize on the fact that the AMA is also anti-choice on euthanasia. As if this organization is more concerned with doctors' incomes than patients' "human rights."
But in fact, there's no contradiction here. I guarantee continuing an unwanted pregnancy is like a billion times more painful than wasting away from terminal cancer. Furthermore, access to abortion care is clearly spelled out in the US Constitution whereas euthanasia is not.
#MyBodyMyChoice
#(Sometimes)
And forced vaccinations are totes cool.
Well, yes, the CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PRIVACY doesn't protect the "right" to refuse a needle in your veins.
Hmm, but what about the impact of abortion on the work force, especially those youngsters and their nimble fingers, just perfect for work in the mills?
Juneteenth is thinly veiled grievance day. Its a cudgel, a reminder that America was an evil racist bad place. We live in one of the most progressive societies on earth, with the least racism the world has ever seen in human history. And the left cant have us celebrating that. So we have to do a "hey remember slavery?!" holiday.
Slavery was everywhere throughout the world for most of time. America is not unique in having participated. And it still goes on in Africa and China, right now. Its great that we did the right thing and ended it but lets get the fuck over it and move on
Ok, white guy.
The second paragraph is spot on. The first is mostly true, I think, when dealing with the resentment/grievance culture folks, of whom there are quite a few. But juneteenth itself, started as a local thing, mostly before the grievance and resentment really became the toxic influence and destroyer that one expects from irrational negativity.
It’s a sham. Delaware never outlawed slavery, and 2 large plantations kept slaves until the 13thA was ratified in December 1865.
Kentucky, too.
Eh, fight against making it a grievance day. Talking to folks in Texas, where the holiday is from, it wasn't that. You see parades of people ,of all the races Texas allows, coming together to celebrate the end of something that has plagued humanity since time immemorial.
The correct stance is to fight against those who turn it into a grievance rather then a celebration of a true step forward in human history. One paid for with the blood of many.
"of all the races texas allows". i'm dying. fucking brilliant.
Yeah that gave me a chuckle.
Hey, we can't tolerate parades that include more than one race. How can righteous people do anti-racism?
"Talking to folks in Texas, where the holiday is from, it wasn't that. "
Ya and all the people referencing this arent wrong. But it is very clearly being pushed by the "America is evil and racist" group of activists (mostly white, but with some loud vocal black activists). Then there was the group last year positing that maybe this should be REAL independence day because that other dirty independence day was just for whites.
When race grifters and activists have the reins all through the govt and MSM, its not surprising that this is the sentiment that comes from them. Its a holiday that has a great background that is being used to push their agenda under the guise of antiracism, as always.
Then push back. I think millions of people are waiting to stand up and get behind the message of, "This day commemorates that the United States ended a practice within our shores that has plagued humanity since time immemorial"
Own it, and watch how many people will back you up, and look side eyed at the debby-downers who want to coopt it for their grievance mill.
Why would I want to bother pushing back?
After over 100 years of freedom and 70 years of Civil Rights legislation, why is this grievance based holiday being pushed now?
I totally agree. This is not at all about celebrating the end of slavery in America, it's another cudgel to pummel white people.
So, take it back.... let Junteenth be what it claims to be: the day that the great riddle, unsolvable at the time of the Revolution, was finally solved.
Don't let the progies steal it, don't let them define words to be other than what they are.
As written above, indeed slavery was only ended in the Confederate states, but the 14th Amendment came quickly enough, so let this be the big day, and enjoy it. America took another step towards the promises made in the Declaration of Independence. We're not perfect, never were, never will be, but we are trying, and Junteenth was a good day.
"thinly veiled grievance day"
I don't think there's any veil.
Fbi expands their investigation into Ashley Bidens diary... which she left behind in a rehab facility per reports. Because apparently going after project Veritas wasn't enough.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/report-fbi-investigating-florida-woman-who-found-ashley-bidens-diary
The FBI is sure interested in becoming a political force aren't they?
Crazed leftist drives car into Trump Store. Had ironic bumper sticker.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/driver-with-apparent-anti-trump-bumper-sticker-on-car-slams-into-trump-store
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.”
Mostly peaceful vehicular assault.
Assault? The car was out of control.
I fully expect Dem proposals that we enact sensible car control measures.
Was it a red suv?
Sonny Hostin of the View represents the modern left.
“Well, I would vote for them,” Ms. Hostin gushed. “I hope this country is ready for something like that. I think the brain power alone would just obliterate [Donald] Trump or DeathSantis.”
Ms. Hostin suggested there were other good Democratic candidates, especially the “pretty” ones.
“I do think there are plenty of Democrats that have tons of verve and energy. I like Gavin Newsom because he’s really pretty to look at,” she said of the California governor.
I had to look up whether or not she actually said "Deathsantis" and she did. These people are a parody of themselves at this point.
They are all horrible people on that show. Yet the audience claps.
Look, these people deserve the chance to live their socialist utopian dreams. Let's give them California, but with a total blockade of goods and services, and see how things turn out.
Once they go full socialist California would erect the blockades on its own. That's what socialists do.
Ah, yes. To keep people from escaping utopia, and being contaminated by decadent products from outside, like electricity.
It is funny. Every socialist utopia that gets built has to keep its "happy citizens" in with walls and machine guns.
Don't forget to pull all federal employees from the state, along with all the defense installations and the military contractors.
See how big their economy really is.
(to make it even larger and more fair, include OR & WA & HI. Leave the freedom loving citizens several counties away from the dark blue cities, and call the new nation Pacifica)
They will just make their own central bank and print trillions of CaliBucks. Everyone will be rich.
Also bets on horses based on silks colors.
Who is "them" in "I would vote for them"?
Newsom is quite clearly non-binary, shitlord.
It's a "them" whose brain power would "obliterate" DeSantis or Trump, and also a current-year Democrat candidate...and I'm drawing a blank. It would have to be someone who seems smart to Hostin...but that's not a very exclusive club.
"DeathSantis"
Yet if someone called her Dummy Hostin, she'd scream racism.
Republican senators appear to have been blocked by the Department of Justice from getting answers about the Hunter Biden investigation from the U.S. attorney’s office in Delaware.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice/doj-blocks-gop-effort-answers-hunter-biden-investigation
Imagine if William Barr did that.
Everything that they swore Trump was going to do, they did.
"The F.D.A. appears poised to authorize Moderna's vaccine for children younger than 6 and Pfizer's for those younger than 5 as soon as Friday," according to The New York Times.
From the Times this morning:
"But now, any parent — and kid — who has been waiting for the vaccines can finally see the endpoint. That is potentially a big group: Nearly 20 million children are under 5 in the U.S. In some cases, the wait has taken a toll, as parents have held up their careers and lives, not to mention the lives of their children, to stay as safe from Covid as possible until a vaccine is available."
and
"The authorizations could set off ripple effects across American life. More parents could decide to return to offices. Day cares and schools may be able to ease quarantine and isolation rules. More young children will be able to play with friends and partake in sports or other activities without a mask."
And from the CDC, numbers of fatalities attributed to COVID between January 2020 and June 2022:
All ages, 1,005,000
Ages 0-4, 442.
Statistically the death risk for kids under 5 is essentially zero. More little kids died during the same time from poisoning, drowning, and physical abuse.
Fuck the Times, and all the other fear mongering assholes.
What is going to be interesting, and not in a positive way for the children, is finding out how the myocarditis after vaccination/booster impacts children's health. I've said this before, the majority of the push for vaccinating young children is not coming from parents, from what I can see. It's coming from teacher's unions, who are craven and irrational, as well as dishonest.
They do realize this injection is for COVID-19, as in 2019, don't they?
And it's now 2022, and even in California half the people are unmasked now?
Multiple countries in europe have BANNED this vaccine for men under 30 because it is so dangerous. But sure, give it to your 1 year old... fuck
You know the blue checks will be lined up for miles to get their kids jabbed and post it on their Instagram's.
Be fair. For most elites, offspring are just a signaling device. If not vaccines, its gender reassignment.
Janes Revenge, leftist group, continues to threaten pregnancy centers after spate of bombings.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/chris-queen/2022/06/16/pro-abortion-organization-threatens-increasingly-drastic-measures-against-pregnancy-centers-n1605959
Your thirty days expired yesterday. We offered an honourable way out. You could have walked away. Now the leash is off. And we will make it as hard as possible for your campaign of oppression to continue. We have demonstrated in the past month how easy and fun it is to attack. We are versatile, we are mercurial, and we answer to no one but ourselves. We promised to take increasingly drastic measures against oppressive infrastructures. Rest assured that we will, and those measures may not come in the form of something so easily cleaned up as fire and graffiti.
Unlike the bs wapo 6 Jan 'threats to pence's life,' this, based on the group's past actions, rises to true threat level. It is strange how domestic terrorism is overlooked if it comes from one's in-group, or supports an agenda one's in-group supports.
The FBI belatedly agreed to take a look at it. Not a hard one, but they recognized bad things happened.
Proving how pro-“choice” the Left is, as long as you choose abortion. Anyone who will help you get medical care, a safe place to stay, finish your education, and help someone adopt a baby or find a new mom a job is obviously evil.
This demonstrates that it's always been about killing people and never about "choice"'.
If I believed in demons I would say that they're possessed.
Can you imagine being so fanatically pro-abortion that you get violently angry at the thought of someone simply choosing not to have one? My god.
A number of towns around me are having multi-day Juneteenth celebrations. To my knowledge, not one group reached out to the Civil War re-enactor groups to present the colors or march or give a talk on the Union Army's role in ending slavery. I thought "we" were supposed to be teaching real history and not one-sided history?
I thought "we" were supposed to be teaching real history and not one-sided history?
Not real history, 1619 history.
And not history, critical theory grievance politics.
Real history is there were still thousands of slaves in Delaware for 6 more months
Biden's plantation wasn't going to run itself.
Six months and 12 days... Delaware waited until the very last day to recognize the freedom of its slave population.
Juneteenth is properly a Texas celebration. Nationwide, it's a spoiler for the true Independence Day, celebrating July 4th, 1776.
How are they even able to still reenact Civil War battles, when they can only wear one uniform and only wave one flag and not carry any military-style weapons?
Given that most young Americans probably don't know if the US civil war happened before or after WWII, and which one included actual Nazis, proper reenactment uniforms probably don't matter.
"...reproductive health services..."
Always seemed kinda strange that it's people who don't want to reproduce who use this phrase most often.
Because "fucking without care and consequence" sounds too selfish.
I watched the January 6 Hearings so you don't have to:
Overview of Day 3: The whole point was to focus on the push to have Mike Pence either refuse the count or try to send it back to the states. If you've been paying attention, nothing that was said yesterday was something you didn't know a year ago.
My big take-away is that this entire hearing is clearly scripted. There was a moment where a member of the committee accidentally went off script by forfeiting the remainder of his time, and everything locked up for a few seconds. Then he chimed back in, apologized, and said, "Actually, wait, I have a few more things to say," which got the committee back on script. This is all very produced and not actually a hearing. It's a presentation.
They called Pence's legal counsel to talk about his communications with Eastman, the man advising Trump. This guy talked ridiculously slow, it was insane. I wonder if he was trying to remember his lines. He's also old as fuck, clearly retired because he's no longer able to be a judge.
Committee keeps bringing up "Even Sean Hannity believes that Mike Pence did the right thing," as if that's some kind of nail-in-the-coffin. They also keep asserting "police officers lost their lives on January 6," despite that clearly not being true.
What's missing is any sort of bombshell or smoking gun. They're actually very sparse on real details, just offering up conclusions instead of investigations. Like they quoted that Clinton Appointed US District judge from 3 months ago, who exceeded his authority to said that Trump "more likely than not" broke the law, but they didn't go into the actual legal discussion about whether Trump was violating the First Amendment. Beyond that, a lot of that analysis is probably based on privileged communications between Trump and his legal counsel, so it's clearly protected. They're basically preaching to the choir-there's nothing I've seen that convinces me Trump broke the law, just a bunch of people telling me that he broke the law without showing the law and the evidence.
Not mentioned: any evidence about how the crowd was organized, what their plans were, or proving Trump was giving directions to tell the crowd to attack the capitol. It's been all "Trump Bad." They're just rehashing the impeachment and not doing much else.
"Committee keeps bringing up "Even Sean Hannity believes that Mike Pence did the right thing," as if that's some kind of nail-in-the-coffin"
A lot of people find it hard to believe that some people don't blindly listen to newscasters/talking heads and form their thoughts and ideas purely around those people of "authority." So them pointing at Sean Hannity is supposed to be a "gotcha," as if he was in charge and not just some dude on TV.
They did the same thing when Rush Limbaugh was alive.
I liked Rush. He said what people were thinking but afraid to say. Hannity is just a blowhard Republican. I couldn't stand him ten years ago and I still can't.
Yes, I agree, Hannity is an absolute blowhard. He's actually a bad look for the Republican party in general.
Blowjobs did not make the CDC monkeypox list of safe sex activities. Hannity likely will not be interested but Hunter might be good to go. Bring your own Biden supplied Crack kit
Remember to wash your hands, fetish gear, sex toys and any fabrics (bedding, towels, clothing) after having sex
https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/sexualhealth/social.html
I think the primary motive of the whole thing is actually desperate insecurity about the legitimacy of Biden's election.
The majority of the hearing, as far as I can tell, has been "Biden totes won, there was no fraud!"
Again, as others have noted, the left's/establishment's behavior since 11/4/2020 (before that really) has been 100% that of a guilty party who knows their position is absurdly illegitimate.
Even those of us who know the 2020 election was complete bullshit have moved on from thinking about "undoing" it. But the guilty cannot just take their ill gotten gains and move on; instead they keep insisting upon their lie as truth.
It is true that it is a scripted presentation of what happened on January 6th, and that it hasn’t presented anything new.
Yet, I’m hearing that there are Trump supporters who are watching the hearings, learning some of this stuff for the first time, and turning away from MAGA in disgust.
Not everyone is a well-informed political news follower like the commenters here. We are not the audience.
Yet, I’m hearing that there are Trump supporters who are watching the hearings, learning some of this stuff for the first time, and turning away from MAGA in disgust.
Color me extremely skeptical about this. Almost nobody seems to be watching this thing. Among those that are, this trial seems to be catering people who hate Trump and love being given outrage fuel.
Among those that are, this trial seems to be catering people who hate Trump and love being given outrage fuel.
As well as people who love Trump and love being given outrage fuel.
TDS goes both ways you know.
He is hearing it from his leftist friends who live in a world of pure imagination.
Yeah, it's like the millions of old, conservative people who were swayed by Russian twitter bots in 2016.
Bloomberg spending a billion dollars didn't do anything for him, but $105k worth of Facebook ads in the hands of Russia...
Cite?
"I'll take "Things that sound good but never happened" for $400, Alex."
Then the whole bus stood and clapped.
The name "Juneteenth" is insulting. It's something Al Capp would've put in a balloon coming out of some hick's mouth. Most of that stuff was mere eye dialect, pronounced the same as normally spelled words, but "Juneteenth" is someone slurring speech from intoxication or brain damage.
I dunno. That’s the name that arose spontaneously from the communities that have been celebrating the holiday for a long, long time. They don’t seem to find it insulting.
But when anybody else says it, it's making fun of them.
Where are all these insulted African-Americans?
They OD'd on Fentanyl but all are invited
Not insulted, oppressed.
Charlize Theron and Elon Musk are African-Americans.
Every black person I know was born in America.
That doesn’t surprise me you don’t know anyone actually from Africa.
Nor do I. Is there some obligation to seek out such people? Is there a quota? Are you going to brag "I have a BORN IN AFRICA friend!"?
Shit. I take it back. I DID know a kid from "Rhodesia". But his family was upper-class there. I used to call him a "rich kid" and he called me a "child of the soil"*, very compassionately. Funny funny guy. Extra funny because our families were then, in the US, both slightly upper middle class.
*- there was a term in whatever their native language was. He later admitted it translated more exactly as "dirty, uneducated farmer" (basically, "redneck". which my family had been)
Do you know what a Cuban sandwich is?
"Every black person I know was born in America." Even Obama.
Wait, I used to work for a black person born in Africa. He's from Zimbabwe, educated in England, and somehow manages to combine the Oxford accent with an African lilt. Not sure how he came to own a business in Grand Rapids, Michigan.
I decided to never use the term "African-American" when someone used it in an article about Nelson Mandela.
He was American in spirit???
I've also seen "African-American" used for athletes recruited from Africa to add some ability to an all-white European nation's Olympic team. Is it more ridiculous to use that for, say, a Nigerian-Romanian or for a South African that's never lived outside of South Africa?
There is a not insignificant group of people that try really had at degrading the English language and changing the meaning of words around to make it harder to even have proper discourse anymore.
That's been going on for over a century. Don't like what the Constitution says? Redefine a few words and now it means the opposite of what it did ten years ago!
Do you mean college professors?
Youre thinking of Juneteenf.
That's lacist!
No.
Separate is NOT Equal.
We either stand united, or not at all.
By united I hope you mean separated into justice-promoting race, gender, and class groups, each assigned their special privileges and unique legal rights.
https://twitter.com/greg_price11/status/1537474564191571970?t=9--zPu9bC225FmOnl0r0QQ&s=19
Doocy: "The president once said he's going to end fossil fuels. Is that now off the table?"
Jean-Pierre: "No, we are going to continue to move forward..."
Yesterday: "Be patriotic and lower your gas prices."
Today: "Actually, we will prevent you from producing oil."
[Video]
Where's Buttplug to argue how none of this is true?
https://twitter.com/NYCMayor/status/1537577926257934336?t=8u6MaFLf8B_vSUl0LF9iZg&s=19
Drag storytellers, and the libraries and schools that support them, are advancing a love of diversity, personal expression, and literacy that is core to what our city embraces.
At a time when our LGBTQ+ communities are under increased attack across this country, we must use our education system to educate. The goal is not only for our children to be academically smart, but also emotionally intelligent.
"At a time when our LGBTQ+ communities are under increased attack across this country"
What. Fucking. Attack.
We are in the middle of assless chaps and drag queen celebration month, constantly bombarded with how brave and wonderful LGBTQ people are. Give me a fucking break. Are we pretending that questioning trans mental illness jargon is somehow an attack?
It's a cult. A sex cult and it's just become the state religion.
And here I was going to send you an application to submit to our exclusive group. We have too many gays and lesbians, but "spirit animal" category is still available, if you rush now.
https://www.spiritualityhealth.com/articles/2020/06/30/queer-animals
Even if my "spirit animal" is a half-white man?
Is the half-white ruler of a large country, perhaps?
How the fuck did "drag queen children's story hour" become a thing? And how the ever loving fuck did it become a thing to fight over?
Wide-spread mental illness and continued cultural subversion.
If the guys at the library were dressing up as part of the storytelling, this wouldn't even be a thing. That is not what is happening.
What is happening is the normalization of sexual deviancy by degrees. Exposing children to more and more behaviors exhibited by smaller and smaller portions of the population. It is pathological. It is grooming.
As these kids mature they will sense they have been violated and it will make them uncomfortable, then angry, and all the more susceptible to the nanny state erosion of freedoms.
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2022-06-16/election-night-results-california-voting
Every registered, active voter is mailed a ballot. People can vote in person, submit their ballot at an official drop box or polling place days and even weeks before “election day,” or stick it in the mail, as long as it’s postmarked before 8 p.m on the final day of voting. Those changes make it much easier to vote and it’s why a lot more people cast ballots than in recent non-presidential primaries. That’s good for civic engagement and good for democracy. But it’s not good for fast results...
Somehow we're supposed to believe that getting most of the ballots to the ballot counters earlier, rather than all at once on the same day, means the results are going to take longer. Allowing ballot to be mailed on election day seems to be causing the delays, as officials wait for more ballots to trickle in or be discovered.
Why not just require mailed-in ballots to be postmarked a week before the election?
They need time to see who didn't vote and then generate their mail in ballots if losing.
Your solution is similar to mine by the way. I dont even like mail in ballots in all honesty.
Prefer multiple election stops, after work hours, a few weeks prior to an election where you have to show up and present ID on acceptance of your ballot. Why are rules more lax for mail in than in person?
"Why not just require mailed-in ballots to be postmarked a week before the election?"
What are you, a racist?
Dates and calendars are racist white man construct.
Oregon didn't implement it too badly. Ballots had to be received by the day of the election by mail or at designated dropboxes. They clearly informed people not to mail their ballots in the few days before the election.
Accepting ballots after the election is just begging for fraud.
Juneteenth is a made up holiday from the 70's or near there. It's nonsense.
The American Medical Association has "adopted policy recognizing that it is a violation of human rights when government intrudes into medicine
and impedes access to safe, evidence-based reproductive health services, including abortion and contraception."These guys are such fucking tools.
"Juneteenth Is a Celebration for Everyone"
No, it isn't. It's an ostentatiously black made-up holiday that exists to pander to black victimology. Witness the charges that Juneteenth-themed items are "exploitative" or "appropriation" when that isn't claimed for any other major US holiday.
Last year I had ten paid holidays. This year I have eleven. I'm not gonna complain.
Stop being a wage slave and you can be in charge of how many holidays you get and when you take them.
No it is really not. That's kwaanza.
I've been to many a juneteenth in the 80s and 90s and being a victim never came up at all. The only time slavery was mentioned was in response to what is juneteenth.
Juneteenth Is a Celebration for Everyone Plus: Fentanyl copaganda....
That is a bizarre headline. Is ENB saying blacks are celebrating J with Fentanyl and all are welcome?
Melina Abdullah
@DocMellyMel
Attention white people…
Please don’t ask if you can come to the cookout…
#Juneteenth is freedom day for Black folks.
It should be #Reparations day for white folks.
I like when the left admits they support race-based guilt. They spend so much time denying their racism it's nice to see it openly instead of hidden.
It's amusing we're lectured we should all celebrate this day, implying those who aren't sufficiently enthusiastic are racist, when the holiday was created specifically to push race based guilt and the opportunity to malign others are racist. Somehow people calling me racist for something other people did generations before I was born doesn't make me feel unified with them.
Companies are already being criticized for commercializing the new holiday:
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/17/1101017257/juneteenth-products-companies-problematic
"When a corporation comes in, uses that further marketing march and then capitalizes off it and sells it, what we're seeing is modern-day colonialism," said Ferraz. Experts say the true meaning of the commemoration can easily be lost through consumerism and widespread consumption.
Apparently they haven't heard of Thanksgiving, Memorial Day, Labor Day, or Presidents Day sales. Or thought they maybe the main reason the North won is because they had a stronger capitalist economy than the South.
Flag Day was 3 days ago. We flew our American flag at home
modern-day colonialism
Colonialism has existed throughout recorded history with almost no discernable differences.
Experts say
Experts on what?
These people are so fucking stupid.
There is no God. But Marx, and NPR is their prophet.
"Colonialism has existed throughout recorded history with almost no discernable differences." Wrong. There are at least 3 different manifestations of colonialism in history.
1. Settling your own people in a foreign land, mostly "displacing" (and causing the death of) the natives. This has been going on at least since Homo sapiens from Africa replaced Neanderthals across Europe and Africa. In the British Isles, Celts replaced the aborigines, then were replaced by Angles, Saxons, and Norse across half of the islands. Since 1492, it happened all across the Americas, whether or not there was a plan to do it. But it's not just ancient history. The Nazis tried to do it in Poland and the USSR about 80 years ago, then the Soviet Russians _did_ do it in East Prussia, part of Ukraine, etc. China is doing this _now_ through cultural genocide of the Uighurs, while most of the left turns a blind eye.
2. Conquer foreigners, settle enough of your people to establish a permanent rule over the natives, and cruelly exploit the natives. This describes most of the colonies established by European nations from 1492 to about 1950. For the worst of it, look up what the King of Belgium's agents did in the Congo when it was His personal property. But colonial rule could become pretty exploitative even when the people ruled came from the home country - which is the reason for the American Revolution.
3. A partially benevolent variation of #2: While cruelly exploiting the conquered natives, also attempt to educate them and teach them the rudiments of good government and a capitalist economy. That often failed, but not completely. When the colonialists finally pulled back and freed their colonies, the former British and American colonies were often a little better off than their neighbors, which had been ruled by Spain, France, Belgium, Germany, Japan, and Italy.
I can tell you the shops and stores in Galveston are welcoming the holiday as an excuse to be closed for Juneteenth. they had in the past closed because for them it became a shoplifters free for all and if they closed they were accused of being racist.
The American Medical Association has "adopted policy recognizing that it is a violation of human rights when government intrudes into medicine and impedes access to safe, evidence-based reproductive health services, including abortion and contraception."
Physicians have tremendous contempt for the AMA for good reasons. The AMA represented less than 30% of licensed practicing physicians in America immediately after they endorsed Obamacare ~ 10 years ago. Since then they will not say how many physicians are due paying members. Even their once well regarded medical journal, JAMA, has fallen to well below respected medical journals with an overall ranking of #188.
https://www.resurchify.com/impact/details/85291
The American Psychological Association journal ranks far higher at #109.
https://www.resurchify.com/impact/details/21100462963
Abortion is murder, not a medical health service
What is Juneteenth? Is it really any different from any of our other holidays? Americans seem to be blissfully ignorant of much of their history. Quick take on holiday
Thanksgiving - eat a lot and watch Detroit Lions play football
Christmas - get presents, watch "A Wonderful Life"
New Year - get drunk
MLK - ?
Presidents Day - ?
Columbus Day - ?
Memorial Day - start of summer, go boating
Independence Day - barbeque and watch fireworks
Labor Day - end of summer, go boating
They should dump Columbus and Presidents Days.
I have suggested that any holiday honoring an individual should be dropped. Instead, one Sunday each month should be set aside to honor an important American.
Or is Columbus Day now Indigenous People’s Day?
You're behind the times. They have changed Columbus day, which no one ever cared about except the Knights of Columbus and a small handful of Italians, to "Indigenous Persons Day" which no one cares about either except a tiny handful of progs.
Who goes boating?
It should be noted that John Eastman did not ask for a pardon, but asked to be on the Pardon List. So there were many asking for pardons. Now a great many Republicans have spoken to the January 6th Committee. The exceptions seems to be those on the pardon list and the fact they wanted pardons may tell you why they are not speaking to the Committee.
Technically, there was no asking words in the sentence, “I've decided that I should be on the pardon list…”
...The Washington Post sums up from yesterday's hearing.
So, regarding the J6 committee case being presented on TV:
If it's true, it proves that Attorney General Merrick Garland, who has the power to prosecute Trump and has not, is too corrupt and/or incompetent to do his job. And that President Joe Biden is demonstrating his own corruption and/or incompetence in his own right for failing to remove and replace him, as he has the power to do as President.
So, you know, it's really simple. Either you believe that the J6 committee is lying, or you believe that Joe Biden and Merrick Garland should both be removed from office as dangers to the Republic.
"Juneteenth Is a Celebration for Everyone"
No. No it is not. It is an ignorant, contrived holiday meant only to capitulate to African-Americans. Even the name sounds stupid.
What is ignorant or contrived about it?
Thank you.
FJB
Emancipation freed Southern entrepreneurs from the burden of slavery. My plantation owning great great grandfather lost most of his assets when his slaves were freed but he no longer had to provide cradle to grave welfare for them. He continued farming by hiring good workers for wages. His plantation doubled acreage every decade after emancipation.
You were always the best Superman, no matter
what anyone says.
Juneteenth is a nonsense holiday, Do we celebrate the day the last colonists learned that Cornallis was defeated at Yorktown? Do we celebrate the day the last day someone learned that Japan surrendered and ended WWII? No. Why. Because it is nonsense. The war ended when the was ended. The fact you found out later doesn’t make it a holiday.
Does freedom come with an "official announcement"? Or, is it a right, a fact of being human, or is it a state of mind?
Or, all three?
Are we free if our rights are denied by the political system and this denial is enforced physically? Can a right be "conditional", e.g., needing consensus? If so, rights would change with public opinion. Can an inalienable right be sacrificed to gain a collective right? What is a collective right? Do some rights conflict with other rights? What is a right? How does it differ from a privilege? Can laws be moral or just if they deny rights? If rights are temporary or transitory in practice, is this due to social custom? Does custom trump morality?
Just more pandering.
If only in a purely economic sense, we all have grounds for celebration from the events commemorated in the Juneteenth holiday. When Blacks became free to apply their labor to activities that exploited their comparative advantage instead of having that labor restricted to serving their owners' purposes, the productivity of the nation shot up.
Knowing this, we should take the occasion of the holiday to reflect on and resolve to remove other barriers to the efficient allocation of labor: minimum wage laws, occupational licensing, union monopolies, etc.
I'm white.
"Black" holidays ain't my trip.
FJB
"RACIST! RACIST!"
No.
This holiday is specifically intended to celebrate something exclusively Black.
Exclusively as in "excluding everyone else".
I am a member of "everyone else".
So it's not my holiday, just as "LGBTQ Pride Month" is not my holiday.
It is designed and intended to shut me out.
Shutting me out is the whole point of it.
Okay.
I'm out.
I'm not you.
You've made your point.
Go celebrate your thangs, and don't bother me with it.
FJB
I don't care about holidays like Juneteenth, Cinco de Mayo, Kwanzaa, Sweethearts Day and any other newer holiday. I am old and these holidays didn't exist when I grew up, they are not my tradition so seem contrived and made up.
My part of my family escaped slavery as they were peasants (and peasantry was slavery) in Europe as Europe changed and they were able to emigrate. The other part of my family voluntarily left a US Native American Reservation, but you know, one part of my family also voluntarily went back to the Reservation. So these holidays are just another day to me.
I stick to religious holidays like Christmas and Easter, and I also served so observe military holidays like Memorial Day, the 4th of July and Veterans day. The rest are just regular days to me.