Simple Reforms Could Prevent Election Chaos
There is bipartisan support to reform the Electoral Count Act to prevent another January 6th.

With the January 6 Committee's public hearings underway, now is an ideal time for Congress to reform the antiquated law that governs the procedures the rioters descended on the Capitol to disrupt.
The Electoral Count Act (ECA) defines the process when Congress meets every four years on January 6 to count the electoral votes for president and vice president. This meeting is mandated by the Constitution, which requires that all electoral votes be sent to Congress and counted in front of the House and Senate. This count is normally a formality, but the ECA includes a caveat with potentially enormous consequences. Congress can reject an electoral vote, the law says, if a majority of both the House and Senate finds that an elector's appointment was not "lawfully certified" or that the elector's vote was not "regularly given."
This provision was invoked by the eight Republican senators and 139 House members who attempted to reject the electoral votes of Arizona and Pennsylvania in 2021. These members of Congress treated the ECA as a license to relitigate election-law disputes that the courts had already settled. Their plans to oppose enough votes to swing the election gave false hope to many of Donald Trump's supporters, who came to view January 6 as the day the president's theories of election fraud would be vindicated.
This was never the intent of those who passed the ECA in 1887. They intended to draw a clear line of distinction between two stages of the election process. Disputes over the conduct of a general election were to be handled by the courts or other adjudicators established by the states, a process that determines which electors have been validly chosen. Once those electors have cast their ballots, Congress bears witness to the count and ensures that the electors themselves have complied with the Constitution's basic rules (such as not voting for two people from their own state).
Scholars including Professors Derek Muller and Stephen Siegel have convincingly shown that the original meanings of "regularly given" and "lawfully certified" were narrow, in line with this intent. These terms were not meant to allow Congress to overrule the courts on questions of election law and change the final outcome of a state.
But until these terms are defined in the ECA itself, members of Congress can continue to use the law to raise any objection they wish. The best way to ensure an orderly count in future elections is to amend the ECA to exhaustively spell out those few legitimate reasons Congress might have to discount an electoral vote. Doing so would remove any ambiguity over the limits of Congress's proper role during the count. Likewise, the text of the law should explicitly reject the false belief that the vice president (who presides over the count) can unilaterally reject an electoral vote.
Such reforms should not be a partisan issue. Neither party can predict who will control Congress or the vice presidency in the future, and both parties should prefer that election disputes be settled by the courts rather than by partisan politicians. Republicans who support maintaining the Electoral College system should support reforms that protect that system from last-minute gamesmanship. And Democrats should not jeopardize this unique opportunity for reform by attempting to bundle an ECA bill with other, more controversial election-law issues.
Congress should seize this rare moment while there is bipartisan momentum behind ECA reform. Waiting until 2023, when the next presidential campaign will be underway, could be too late. By then, both parties are more likely to be focused on who the immediate beneficiary of any change might be, making agreement on major reforms more difficult. No matter who is in power, it will always be preferable to leave complex, fact-intensive election-law disputes to the courts, who are better equipped to get the answer right.
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Reason is Soviet trash.
Don't insult me.
/Stalin's Ghost
Fair
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Hahaha
Simple reforms is a far cry from “nothing to see here folks”.
Nothing to see? Like the Holocaust.
GFTO you goddamn genocidal Nazi.
Actually much worse.
No.
And not only no, it should go in the other direction.
Give the states the power to recall votes.
Federalism.
Every office at every level should have a mandatory recall vote after one year. Just a simple, "Should X remain in office?" Voting for potential replacements can come later on.
Huh? It's the STATES that sends the slate of electoral votes to Congress! You want states to recall their own appointed electors? Then why the fuck did they certify them in the first place?
The place to do this is still in the courts. If you think your duly elected Secretary of State made up his own slate of electors and sent that in instead of the alternate slate you came up with in your kangaroo committee, then you go through the courts. But what you don't do is claim that Congress has no authority to count the electoral votes.
Die, statist scumbag
Sounds real good to say "go through the courts" but the courts have shown a complete cowardice to "get involved" in election matters.
In 2020, the Supremes sent a clear message, to the rest of the courts, to stay out of the conflicts, when it failed to halt Pennsylvania from its implementing its unconstitutional regulation changes, despite the obviousness of those actions.
That's why the Trump campaign never got a fair hearing on any of their challenges.
The bogus claim that "the courts" rejected all of the campaign's complaints is belied by the fact that they were never looked at, seriously.
"Nobartium" is correct, the process needs to be made easier for challenges to be fairly adjudicated, not to make the establishment's hold more secure.
Sounds real good to say "go through the courts" but the courts have shown a complete cowardice to "get involved" in election matters.
The *federal* courts, yes. Because elections are run by the several states. State courts are the ones who bear chief responsibility for overseeing state elections.
And when the state's highest court is the offender, in a federal election, why would the federal courts not have a say?
The courts have largely become as beholden to ideology and the deep state as any banana republic, and the SCOTUS is aware that if they push too hard on leftist ideologues who keep directly threatening their existence, they will be remade into puppets of the other two branches, on whom they depend to enforce their rulings. So even if there was malfeasance in the last election there was nothing practical they could do about it. Look how the Executive Branch continues to just ignore and not enforce rulings they don't like, even now. The Right Wing and Trump are taking notes.
trumps campaign never got a fair hearing, because they never had any evidence.
BS! Several election procedures from several states invoked under the guise of covid have since been struck down by courts.
Some states violated constitutional mandates that the legislature set the voting procedures. The legislature in those states was overridden arbitrarily by the executive branch, which changed the procedures unilaterally.
It was the states that committed the fraud. They altered the process in the middle of the process and did so illegally. After what I saw the political left do to destroy any semblance election security of the election nothing will convince me that it was a fair election. I think audits should be allowed by anyone at any time to ensure only valid ballots by people actually eligible to vote are counted. You shouldn't have to sue the state to commit an audit.
Save time and money; just let facebook or twitter run a poll and accept their results.
Can't be worse than thousands of dead people "voting".
Can't be worse than thousands of dead people "voting".
And this has been proven to have happened in 2020 where? I mean, there was that one guy that went on Fox News talking about how his dead wife voted, only for him to later plead guilty to voter fraud charges that it was him that had cast the absentee ballot in her name. (Registered Republican, by the way). In searching for the article announcing that guilty plea, I came across other articles of people casting Trump ballots for dead relatives, including a man suspected of killing his wife that disappeared in May 2020. So, whatever handful of people that do attempt this, the idea that it would be just Democrats is disproved. (Just like the Republican voters in The Villages in Florida charged with voting in two states.)
This is why the courts are the right place to litigate claims of fraud. Only in courts do you have to have evidence and witnesses that will stand up to scrutiny and cross examination. Partisan legislators clearly can and will exaggerate if not outright lie to justify voting in their own interest.
With the January 6 Committee's public hearings underway, now is an ideal time for Congress to reform the antiquated law that governs the procedures the rioters descended on the Capitol to disrupt.
Could these simple reforms also apply to Supreme Court hearings... you know, those other proceedings that protesters attempt to disrupt?
This was never the intent of those who passed the ECA in 1887.
Can't wait for this guy's article on the 2nd Amendment.
SCOTUS has spent a couple of centuries deciding the intent of the founders and fucking it up most of the time. But I'm pretty sure the new guy at Reason can figure it out.
Only reform needed; require a concealed carry permit to vote.
That way we know there has been common sense identification verification.
I'd just like the application process for welfare to mirror the application process for CCW.
Around here, for CCW, you must show up in person at the courthouse, fill out an application that asks several invasive questions, present several forms of government-approved photo ID, get photographed for new picture ID, take the application to the Sheriff's office, get fingerprinted, then have the application and prints submitted to the FBI for a background check. Of course you have to pay nontrivial fees as well.
If you've have committed no crimes and are not deemed mentally unstable, if you're lucky your CCW will be approved and mailed to you in 60-90 days. You get to repeat the process every 5 years.
Since its a welfare application, we could waive the fees, but the fingerprinting, photo ID requirement and issuance, plus a wants&warrants background check seem sensible and not intrusive relative to hoops needed to exercise Constitutionally-guaranteed 2nd rights. As a side effect, the resulting photo ID would be acceptable for voting!
That is to discourage CCW, the process is intentionally cumbersome.
And I'd like to discourage welfare applicants.
Why not take the obverse path? Dems will swear there are raciss barriers blocking welfare, so ought to welcome placing the same barriers in the way of the enumerated right to keep and bear arms. It it is not a right, then transfer payments from producers to nonproducers aren't either. But the article here is abt election laws.
Even better, we could let a Soros and Zuckerberg-funded online system administer the "voting" and tell us who won.
How about you and your marxist fellow travellers focus on eliminating the election fraud that made people believe the election was a farce in the first place? No? What you can't properly control the outcomes thencomrade, is that it? Perhaps focus on the root cause and not further alienate people from their government you totalitarian scum.
How about you and your marxist fellow travellers focus on eliminating the election fraud that made people believe the election was a farce in the first place?
What election fraud? The fraud that hasn't been proven to exist in significant amounts in a court with rules of evidence that has to stand up to scrutiny and ability to cross examine witness under oath? What has made many Republican voters believe that the election was a "farce" was their devotion to Trump and core belief that Democrats are evil, so of course they would have to cheat to win.
Just in case you'd like to see what a pile of lefty shit JasonT20 is, how about justifying murder of an unarmed protester as a preventative measure:
"JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
Eat shit and die, lefty shit-pile.
The American election violated a number of fundamental safeguards the European Union enforces on its countries - a major one being the role of neutral observers. You can read a court case that went all the way up to the PA Supreme Court where observers were simply blocked from witnessing the vote count in a crucial location. The PA Supreme Court simply shrugged off the allegations - what could really be done after the fact? Plus, the observers hadn't been kicked off the premises, they were just physically blocked from witnessing the vote count, so the court justified that their "meaningful access" to the location was not blocked, since the phrase "meaningful access" was not defined by precedent, and observers had been allowed to enter the building, despite not being able to witness the vote count or to even have a line of sight to where it was occurring.
You can read a court case that went all the way up to the PA Supreme Court where observers were simply blocked from witnessing the vote count in a crucial location.
I had trouble figuring out which case this was and locating the ruling. If you have a link, I would appreciate it.
Taking your word for the facts of the case, I still don't see any evidence of fraud. If that is the most suspect thing you've got to doubt the results, then it isn't much. That some observers didn't get the access they wanted, but courts ruled that the laws weren't violated is a procedural issue. It is only suspect if you believe that poll workers were somehow fudging things behind their backs because they weren't being watched as carefully as you think they should have been, and that they did so in a way that didn't leave any other traces.
This is the story with just about all of the cases filed. They didn't allege in court the same kind of things they were talking about in public. In public, they talked about dead people voting, 'suitcases' of ballots appearing out of nowhere, and such. But when they had the chance to put those kinds of allegations to the test in court, did they? I don't see it when I look at summaries of the dozens of cases filed, as they all seemed to be about procedural issues like what you bring up.
I am not sure how to post links, but you can search Politico for "Pennsylvania Supreme Court rejects complaints about Philadelphia election observations". This is a summary. I read the primary documents. The alleged behavior was pretty shitty, the vote counters pretty much didn't let anyone from the Republican side observe the vote count, physically blocking their ability to see what was going on. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturned the appellate court's decision.
Thank you. I found it. I disagree with your assessment that the Republican side was blocked from observing the vote count. The majority opinion of the PA Supreme Court:
According to Attorney Mercer’s candid testimony [representative of Trump's campaign], which the trial court accepted as credible, from his vantage point, he could view the entirety of the pre-canvassing and canvassing process. Clearly, then, Attorney Mercer had the opportunity to observe the
mechanics of the canvassing process. Specifically, Attorney Mercer witnessed Board employees inspecting the back of ballot envelopes containing the voter’s declaration, before sending them on for processing; witnessed ballots being removed from their
secrecy envelopes, and naked ballots which had been delivered to the Board without a secrecy envelope being segregated from ballots which arrived within such envelopes; saw that the ballot processing methods utilized by the Board were not destroying the
ballot envelopes containing the voter’s declaration; and perceived that the ballot secrecy envelopes were being preserved during their processing.
The issue Trump's campaign was making was that he wasn't close enough to read the ballot envelopes and see that they were properly filled out and that he couldn't see whether the secrecy envelopes had any disallowed marks on them. But the court noted that he wouldn't have been allowed to challenge individual ballots anyway, so that wasn't necessary. He could see that workers were checking these things, even if he wasn't able to double check their work for each ballot.
The court also noted that the relevant statutes didn't specify that representatives like Mercer needed to be able to read ballot envelopes, but the legislature certainly could have included language to that effect if it wanted to. The judges pointed out that it wasn't their job to make up law if they thought that the legislature wasn't specific enough for their liking.
Basically, I don't see anything unreasonable in the court's opinion, and I don't see how the Trump campaign not getting what it wanted is suggestive of fraud in any way whatsoever.
Tech note on making links: You can simply copy and paste the web address and it will make a hyperlink out of it. Or, if you want to make the link say something else shorter you can use an html code. HTML codes use , but I will type it out with [] instead so that it doesn't make actual links. [a href="web address"]display text[/a] would make a link to the web address that looked like display text.
Thank you for finding the case (and for the accelerated html lesson; I wasn't sure Reason would let me post links in the first place).
It seems like the earlier actions by the vote counters were more egregious.
"The Commonwealth Court reasonably directed election officials in Philadelphia to move restrictive barriers in the Convention Center closer to the ballot-canvassing operations, which had been staged up to thirty-five yards from the areas to which the statutorily-authorized candidate representatives were confined. Under the Commonwealth Court's order, these representatives could then observe whether ballots were being counted lawfully to the best of their ability, consistent with health and safety restrictions. The record -- as well as publicly-available video recordings from the Convention Center -- amply demonstrate that this simply wasn't the case previously."
At some point I suppose the courts ordered those barriers moved closer. What this omits is the earlier write-ups where the plaintiffs described the barriers (they were fully obstructing their view, rather than simply being far away). That is why the appellate judge ruled for the plaintiffs (the decision which was overruled by PA's Supreme Court). Again, this is not proof of cheating, it could have simply been an act of provocation or derision by petty election workers against people they didn't like, or who they saw as disruptive.
Again, this is not proof of cheating, it could have simply been an act of provocation or derision by petty election workers against people they didn't like, or who they saw as disruptive.
Petty? With the crowds of angry Trump supporters banging on doors to the buildings where votes were being counted with their "stop the steal" signs, the threats and demonization that election officials and workers have been getting? My point, in the post you replied to, was to ask for evidence of fraud, not procedural disputes. Election and voting fraud are crimes. People should have reliable evidence that crimes were committed before making those kinds of accusations. And voters on all sides should demand evidence before believing self-serving claims of candidates that fraud cost them a victory.
Elections always come with routine verification audits. When machines are used, random batches of ballots are hand counted to check against the machine counts. Independent companies certify machines before and after elections, and so on. I don't think that those processes are perfect, by any means. But I trust them just enough that I won't believe that crimes were committed unless substantial evidence of election crimes exists and is subject to scrutiny in neutral forums, like a court.
Too many Trump supporters haven't just lowered the bar of proof required to believe fraud occurred, they simply assume that it was, and any evidence and attempt to suggest otherwise is simply proof of the conspiracy to cover it up.
"This provision was invoked by the eight Republican senators and 139 House members who attempted to reject the electoral votes of Arizona and Pennsylvania in 2021. These members of Congress treated the ECA as a license to relitigate election-law disputes that the courts had already settled."
https://www.bing.com/search?q=11+times+democrats+cnn+biden&cvid=4791eda4d335473fb3f92ef988089fa7&aqs=edge..69i57.6479j0j1&pglt=131&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=HCTS
Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts.
Nancy Pelosi
And then there’s the Democrat insurrection…
1:09 P.M. ET: Rep. Jim McGovern of Massachusetts rose to object to the certificate from Alabama.
“The electors were not lawfully certified, especially given the confirmed and illegal activities engaged by the government of Russia,” McGovern said.
Biden denied McGovern on the grounds that he didn’t have a senator’s signature on his written objection.
1:14 P.M.: Rep. Jamie Raskin of Maryland rose to object to 10 of Florida’s 29 electoral votes.
“They violated Florida’s prohibition against dual office holders,” Raskin said.
Again, despite the fact that Raskin pointed out that he had his objection in writing, he failed to get a senator’s signature.
1:15 P.M.: No sooner had the Florida question been settled than its neighbor to the north was the subject of another objection, when Washington’s Rep. Pramila Jayapal objected to Georgia’s vote certificate.
“It is over,” Biden told the congresswoman.
1:21 P.M.: Rep. Barbara Lee of California brought up voting machines and Russian hacking when she objected following the counting of Michigan’s votes.
“People are horrified by the overwhelming evidence of Russian interference in our election,” Lee said.
Once again, her objection was denied for the lack of a senator’s signature. They also turned off her microphone.
1:23 P.M.: After New York’s tally was read, Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas stood up to object.
“I object on the massive voter suppression that included –” Jackson Lee began.
“The debate is not in order,” Biden interrupted. Again, the congresswoman lacked a senator’s signature.
1:28 P.M.: Arizona’s Rep. Raul Grijalva rose to object after North Carolina’s tally. He tried to object on violations of the Voting Rights Act, but Biden shut him down.
As you may have guessed, he didn’t have the signature of a senator.
Once he gave up, Jackson Lee tagged him out and tried to object to the votes herself. They cut off her microphone, too.
“There is no debate. There is no debate. There is no debate,” a visibly agitated Biden said as he gaveled.
1:31 PM: Jackson Lee made another appearance minutes later after South Carolina’s certification.
“There is no debate in the joint session,” Biden said, shutting her down once more.
1:36 PM: Biden must have thought, after five minutes of peace and getting through the state of West Virginia, that the House members might observe the rules. Lee wasn’t even able to make it through her objection before Biden said, “There is no debate.”
They cut off her microphone again.
1:37 PM: Wisconsin’s votes had been read. With just Wyoming to go, the finish line was in reach.
Jackson Lee once again tried to make an objection on the grounds of Russian interference in the election.
“The objection cannot be received,” Biden said.
1:38 PM: The final state’s votes had been read. Then entered California Rep. Maxine Waters.
Taking a play from her own book – she objected to the certification of George W. Bush’s 2000 election – Waters admitted that she didn’t have a senator’s signature on her objection.
“I wish to ask: Is there one United States senator who will join me in this letter of objection?” Waters asked. Through House Speaker Paul Ryan’s chuckle and boos from the rest of the chamber, it was clear that there was not.
1:40 PM: The states were counted, but three protestors started yelling from the visitors’ gallery of the chamber. At least one of them was reciting the Constitution as he was taken away by security.
Cut to the chase and the difference between a majority of GOP hack Representatives and 3 Democrats (and no Senators).
"Biden denied McGovern on the grounds that he didn’t have a senator’s signature on his written objection.....
...“It is over,” Biden told the congresswoman.
......“I object on the massive voter suppression that included –” Jackson Lee began.
....“The debate is not in order,” Biden interrupted.
....“The objection cannot be received,” Biden said."
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults.
Not a one of his posts is worth refuting; like turd he lies and never does anything other than lie. If something in one of Joe Asshole’s posts is not a lie, it is there by mistake. Joe Asshole lies; it's what he does.
Joe Asshole is a psychopathic liar; he is too stupid to recognize the fact, but everybody knows it. You might just as well attempt to reason with or correct a random handful of mud as engage Joe Asshole.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults; Joe Asshole deserves nothing other.
Eat shit and die, Asshole.
I'm all for this one.
I agree. This very old law needs updating.
Good article in Reason.
"The Conservative Case for Avoiding a Repeat of Jan. 6The Conservative Case for Avoiding a Repeat of Jan. 6
By J. Michael Luttig
Mr. Luttig, a former judge on the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, has been advising a number of senior Republican senators on the Electoral Count Act.
The clear and present danger to our democracy now is that former President Donald Trump and his political allies appear prepared to exploit the Electoral Count Act of 1887, the law governing the counting of votes for president and vice president, to seize the presidency in 2024 if Mr. Trump or his anointed candidate is not elected by the American people.
The convoluted language in the law gives Congress the power to determine the presidency if it concludes that Electoral College slates representing the winning candidate were not “lawfully certified” or “regularly given” — vague and undefined terms — regardless of whether there is proof of illegal vote tampering. After the 2020 election, Republican senators like Ted Cruz of Texas and Josh Hawley of Missouri tried to capitalize on those ambiguities in the law to do Mr. Trump’s bidding, mounting a case for overturning the results in some Biden-won states on little more than a wish. Looking ahead to the next presidential election, Mr. Trump is once again counting on a sympathetic and malleable Congress and willing states to use the Electoral Count Act to his advantage.
He confirmed as much in a twisted admission of both his past and future intent earlier this month, claiming that congressional efforts to reform the Electoral Count Act actually prove that Mike Pence had the power to overturn the 2020 presidential election because of the alleged “irregularities.” The former vice president pushed back forcefully, calling Mr. Trump “wrong.”
The back-and-forth repudiations by Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence lay bare two very different visions for the Republican Party. Mr. Trump and his allies insist that the 2020 election was “stolen,” a product of fraudulent voting and certifications of electors who were not properly selected. Over a year after the election, they continue to cling to these disproved allegations, claiming that these “irregularities” were all the evidence Mr. Pence needed to overturn the results, and demanding that the rest of the G.O.P. embrace their lies. The balance of the Republican Party, mystifyingly stymied by Mr. Trump, rejects these lies, but, as if they have fallen through the rabbit hole into Alice’s Wonderland, they are confused as to exactly how to move on from the 2020 election when their putative leader remains bewilderingly intent on driving the wedge between the believers in his lies and the disbelievers.
This political fissure in the Republican Party was bound to intensify sooner or later, and now it has, presenting an existential threat to the party in 2024. If these festering divisions cost the Republicans in the midterm elections and jeopardize their chances of reclaiming the presidency in 2024, which they well could, the believers and disbelievers alike will suffer.
While the Republicans are transfixed by their own political predicaments, and the Democrats by theirs, the right course is for both parties to set aside their partisan interests and reform the Electoral Count Act, which ought not be a partisan undertaking.
Democrats, for their part, should regard reform of the Electoral Count Act as a victory — essential to shore up our faltering democracy and to prevent another attack like the one at the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. These are actually the worthiest of objectives.
Republicans should want to reform the law for these same reasons, and more. Of course, some may never support reform of the Electoral Count Act simply because the former president has voiced his opposition to the efforts to revise it. But there are consequential reasons of constitutional and political principle for the large remainder of Republicans to favor reform in spite of the former president’s opposition.
Republicans are proponents of limited federal government. They oppose aggregation of power in Washington and want it dispersed to the states. It should be anathema to them that Congress has the power to overturn the will of the American people in an election that, by constitutional prescription, is administered by the states, not Washington. If the Democrats are willing to divest themselves of the power to decide the presidency that the 49th Congress wrongly assumed 135 years ago, then it would be the height of political hypocrisy for the Republicans to refuse to divest theirs.
Constitutional conservatives, especially, should want Electoral Count Act reform, because they should be the first to understand that the law is plainly unconstitutional. Nothing in the Constitution empowers Congress to decide the validity of the electoral slates submitted by the states. In fact, the Constitution gives Congress no role whatsoever in choosing the president, save in the circumstance where no presidential candidate receives a majority of the electoral votes cast.
Trump acolytes like Mr. Cruz and Mr. Hawley should appreciate the need to reform this unconstitutional law. They are also politically smart enough to understand that however likely it is that the Republican presidential candidate will lose in 2024, it is just as likely that he or she will win. Attempts to time reform based on handicapping the quadrennial presidential election are futile, and no Republican should want to be an accessory to any successful attempt to overturn the next election — including an effort by Democrats to exploit the law.
If the Republicans want to prevent the Electoral Count Act from being exploited in 2024, several fundamental reforms are needed. First, Congress should formally give the federal courts, up to and including the Supreme Court, the power to resolve disputes over state electors and to ensure compliance with the established procedures for selecting presidential electors — and require the judiciary’s expeditious resolution of these disputes. Congress should then require itself to count the votes of electors that the federal courts have determined to be properly certified under state law.
Congress should also increase the number of members required both to voice an objection and to sustain one to as high a number as politically palatable. At the moment, only one member of each chamber is necessary to send an objection to the Senate and House for debate and resolution — an exceedingly low threshold that proved a deadly disservice to the country and the American people during the last election.
Currently, Congress has the power under Article II and the Necessary and Proper Clause to prevent states from changing the manner by which their electors are appointed after the election, but it has not clearly exercised that authority to prevent such postelection changes. It should do so.
Finally, the vice president’s important, but largely ministerial, role in the joint session where the electoral votes are counted should once and for all be clarified.
It is hardly overstatement to say that the future of our democracy depends on reform of the Electoral Count Act. Republicans and Democrats need to put aside their partisan differences long enough to fix this law before it enables the political equivalent of a civil war three years hence. The law is offensive to Republicans in constitutional and political principle, officiously aggrandizing unto Congress the constitutional prerogatives of the states. It is offensive to Democrats because it legislatively epitomizes a profound threat in waiting to America’s democracy. The needed changes, which would meet the political objectives of both parties, should command broad bipartisan support in any responsible Congress. For Republicans in particular, these changes are sleeves off their vests.
Come to think of it, the only members in Congress who might not want to reform this menacing law are those planning its imminent exploitation to overturn the next presidential election."
Luttig worked in the Reagan Administration, clerked under SC Scalia, and was appointed to the District Court by Pres HW Bush.
If done this session, the Congress that would alter the Electoral Count Act is the same one that tried to implement federal takeover of election laws, which would have enshrined many of the methods the left uses to steal elections, like banning voter ID, universal mailed-in balloting, counting late-arriving ballots, and ballot harvesting.
No thanks.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults.
Not a one of his posts is worth refuting; like turd he lies and never does anything other than lie. If something in one of Joe Asshole’s posts is not a lie, it is there by mistake. Joe Asshole lies; it's what he does.
Joe Asshole is a psychopathic liar; he is too stupid to recognize the fact, but everybody knows it. You might just as well attempt to reason with or correct a random handful of mud as engage Joe Asshole.
Do not engage Joe Asshole; simply reply with insults; Joe Asshole deserves nothing other.
Fuck off and die, Asshole.
lol... The courts settled it did they???? Some ruled too late, some ruled 'not our territory', some ruled whatever else.... I never heard of a single court ruling that the election **WASN'T** fraud-ed.
I mean for F'Sakes; Governors used Executive Fiat to violate legislated election laws... The almighty DICTATOR gets to change voting laws willy-nilly for any result now and it's ?legitimate?.... Give me a F'En break..........
You might've learned a thing or two from today's J6Committee session.
I learned that a committee who starts out with a narrative (Ironically; the verdict was stated before anything) and then repeating that lie of a narrative over and over and over again without a speckle of honor in pursuing any sort of truth in the matter (just a load of hearsay) creates truth for the sheeple...
Remember when they took the time to prove that all the votes were from legal U.S. Citizens and only one of each and that Governors didn't play criminal fiat-executive order violating legislated voting laws??????
Oh that's right; they did no such thing.. That session was absolutely NOTHING but hearsay propaganda.... I mean good grief from Barr's own words... Vote dumping is innocent until proven guilty but since we don't know where the votes came from they'll always be innocent....
your right..... because no court ever makes a blanket ruling like there was no fraud......
what they all ruled is "you have no provided any evidence of fraud." (or more specifically, "you have not shown any legitimate reason these particular votes should be thrown out just to help you win."..... as pretty much none of the cases actually claimed fraud directly..... the lies fed to the useful idiots don't match much of what was actually brought into a courtroom.)
There was plenty of "evidence"... What they really ruled was 'qualified immunity' of the evidence because of COVID and a stink of "we're scared of the Nazi-Regime".
Election integrity isn't innocent until proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be guilty (like prosecution); which ironically it was WELL established the laws that got broken (executive fiat).. It's authenticity is required to be established. Only a freak-en idiot thinks they can write up a fraudulent contract and forge a name and pretend that contract is innocent until proven guilty.. No; the integrity of that contract HAS to be established first.
Reasons voting reforms:
Multiple voting by one person.
Anyone capable of voting allowed regardless of age or citizenship.
Unused mail in ballots can be collected and filled out by anyone.
Mentally incompetent people can have their ballots filled out by political operatives.
Internet bot voting after the election is over using routers to access compromised voting machines and the count to win is known.
Of course, those are only allowed for votes for leftist candidates.
Anyone doing it for a conservative is to be immediately jailed.
i'm glad you included the internet bot one...... that is the one that really underlines how dreadfully stupid and uninformed you are about how any of it works.
many of the others, i am sure you could find some story about it being done some time in the last decade..... completely miss the fact that the person who did it was caught and prosecuted, because it is harder to get away with than you want to believe..... and you can delude yourself into thinking it was done on some impossibly massive scale. (and, contrary to common sense, only nutters on one side try it.)
but the bot voting.... that is completely made up BS that crumbles if you have even the smallest understanding of how any elections system actually operates. somehow, there are internet bots voting, and the HAND RECOUNTS of the PAPER BALLOTS match?
TJJ and Liberty Hater, you're claims have reached their expiration date. No one who is not a true believer will buy that crap anymore. You of all people need to see the Jan 6 Comm interviews with multiple Trump officials - guys he hired, on his team - who say all your claims are complete nonsense and your boy lost fair and square.
Adjust to reality guys, come out of the cave. That war is over.
If your evidence was as big as your mouth you wouldn't be such a dipsh*t.
I don't care who you get to tell me it was a non-fraudulent election.
I know what I saw with my own eyes.
Shit, solely the undeniable action of the mainstream media, censoring the Hunter Biden laptop story, has been shown to have been enough to change the result.
Obama 69 million votes; 873 Counties; Won Ohio & Florida
Trump 74 million votes; 2,497 counties; Won Ohio & Florida
Biden 81 million votes; 477 counties; Lost Ohio & Florida
19 Bellwether counties; perfect record of selecting winner since 1980; Trump 18 of 19
No honest person believes basement campaigning Joe Biden had 81 million individual voters. More than Barack 0bama?
Those are just a portion of the overwhelming evidence that the election was STOLEN.
retired, your "data" aside, none of Trump's appointees and team players who were expert agreed with him - and you - that the election was stolen. It may comfort you to keep believing bullshit, but it makes you silly.
How did Trump lose? Biden underperformed Hillary in Philly, Atlanta, Milwaukee, and Detroit, so if votes were stolen it was in the red suburbs and small counties in those states. Does that make any sense? Look it up. Further Trump underperformed other GOP candidates in the 2020 election in those states. Turn out was huge.
As to your claims about election rules, 62 courts cases and Trump won one. GOP and even Trump appointed judges ruled against him and you.
How did Trump lose?
Trump didn't lose you moron, don't you get that?
See this--
No spin, just raw numbers.
In order for this to have really happened there would have to have been a population shift so massive that it would have left empty areas the size of cities.
The people who voted for Obama in 369 counties would all have to have moved to the remaining 477 counties, still vote Dem AND have had a population explosion in excess of 12 million 18 years ago.
He doesn’t get it because he’s been ordered not to. No amount of logic or evidence will ever sway him from the prog hive mind.
this is the problem with stupid partisan hacks.......
your entire argument rests on the ridiculous notion that nobody who didn't vote in the past might chosen to have voted in that election..... AND those who did vote before ALL only vote straight party tickets for every election they ever vote in.
do you really not see how stupid your logic sounds?
No one is saying that people never change their votes.
What Azatoth IS saying is Biden won half as many counties as Obama but 12 million more votes.
That means the counties he did win had to increase their total population by more than 12 million people in 8 years and flip some number of the previous Republican voters to offset the people that would have moved there and voted R.
Is that possible? I’d say maybe.
Is it probable/plausible? Much less likely.
It’s not partisan, it’s just math.
"In 2020, there were 168.31 million people registered to vote in the United States. This is a significant increase from the previous election, when 153.07 million people were registered to vote."
So if Trump + Biden got 155 million votes together, plus say 5 million more for Jo and other minor party candidates, are we talking about an almost 100% voter turnout? That sounds hard to believe.
Here we see Joe deny the reality of governors (D & R) and other executives adjusting voting rules without going through the proper legislative channels.
Maybe the election wasn’t stolen, there’s never really going to be a way to conclusively prove either way, but those executive actions sure as shit did happen and they should have all been smacked down hard for it.
Take it to court Designate. Oh wait, they did!
I wonder what happened.
I wonder what happened.
Court cases were dismissed or unheard through lack of standing or other procedural issues. Evidence was unclear due to radically often illegally altered election rules.
That's what happened.
oh... the old lack of evidence pretending to be evidence argument.
I can link you the cases that were tossed on those things, but something tells me you’ll ignore them.
If it ever happens again, things are likely to get real fucking bad for people like you. No wonder you Marxist shitweasels are desperate to disarm Americans.
The last minute rule changes were ruled illegal:
https://www.westernjournal.com/judge-rules-last-minute-changes-states-election-law-illegal/
That’s just one example. Feel free to fuck off now.
More lies from Joe Asshole.
When Germany's Trump shot himself, thousands of his supporters did the same honorable thing. East Germany was slated for Soviet Socialist occupation and there was an Exodus westward. Trumpistas could profit by following the Christian National Socialist example in martyrdom. Yet SS platoons were still ambushing Allied soldiers as late as May 20 1945. Guess how much sympathy they finally got...
You might take a look at the National Popular Vote Compact if you want to see what a real attempt to steal a presidential election looks like.
Not to mention imagining what a national recount might look like.
What the hell?? Did I stumble into the comments section for National Review by mistake?
No. Since there isn’t a preponderance of neocons here.
Hey look guys, it's the One True Libertarian come to set us all straight!
Reason is admitting that our elections are in chaos? I thought that was the Big Lie.
everyone knows the last presidential election was chaos - the problem is one side liked the results
Hey, leftist scum--just because you want to pretend that your fucking side never objected to the outcome of an election doesn't mean that anyone else buys it.
You don't have the votes to change the ECA and you don't have the courts to change the ECA (that's why you shitheads are threatening judges)
Do you really think people can't see that? That you people, who can't tell a man from a woman, are the 'smart people' who are fooling all the rubes?
I would agree that the electoral vote count by Congress is not the place to address these issues.
That said, IIRC: a significant percentage of the relevant disputes were rejected on jurisdictional grounds. They were not settled by the courts on the merits.
some of the judges were too nice in not really slamming them for how bad the merits were.
cite
or you could have said... 'in my uninformed opinion'
That said, IIRC: a significant percentage of the relevant disputes were rejected on jurisdictional grounds. They were not settled by the courts on the merits.
As far as I have seen, few of the cases even made specific allegations of fraud, or they declined to offer any such specific evidence when the judge asked if they wanted a hearing for it. That lawsuits mainly over procedures were dismissed on procedural grounds is not helping your cause. Besides, it is typical for judges that are dismissing cases on procedural grounds not to bother saying anything about the merits of a case.
Writer auditioning for Vox.
Good article. The Democrats are the problem here and they need to start accepting simple wins. Larding up bills till they fail is not the answer. Keep it simple fix the ECA and leave it at that.
What problem, exactly, is 3 U.S. Code Section 15 supposed to solve? The text of the Constitution reads plainly enough on its own, it hardly needs the addition of useless details such as Congress shall "meet at 1 PM". It's the Code which injects the entire scheme of objecting that is the source of all our present troubles. There's not a word in the Constitution about objecting to electors.
The obvious solution is to revoke this code section entirely. It served no purpose when passed, and creates only trouble, as we've seen. Sometimes, less really is more.
What problem, exactly, is 3 U.S. Code Section 15 supposed to solve?
The problem it was supposed to solve was that Democrats weren't getting elected.
As will all of these 'solutions' foisted upon us, the second it starts biting Democrats in the ass--and these 'solutions' always do--- it needs to be abolished or fixed.
"What problem, exactly, is 3 U.S. Code Section 15 supposed to solve?"
In the 1876 presidential election 4 states each sent two EC slates/ballots to Congress, both signed by legitimate state officials.
https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/blog/looking-back-the-electoral-commission-of-1877
The Electoral Count Act was passed a decade later in 1887.
Thanks for the informative link. A simple addition to the Constitutional language would have fixed this issue: the slate has to be certified by the legislature and signed by the state chief executive to be considered "from the state".
That would have forestalled 1877 and 2020, both.
Maybe so. But "we" took California from Mexico after gold was found there. When gold was later discovered on the Boer side of the Vaal river, British surveyors suddenly decided the maps needed rectifying so Queen Victoria could get that gold. Dutch settlers' objections were recast as a voting rights dispute in order to cloud the casus belli. Mr Dooley's solution was: "I'd given thim th' votes. But," he added significantly, "I'd do th' countin'."
"...the procedures the rioters descended on the Capitol to disrupt."
Bullshit.
You guys have been had for a year and a half on this and it's beyond embarrassing at this point, especially now when we've seen the tapes of the conman's own staff calling bullshit on him. Sure, it sucks to lose but hey don't compound it by pretending along with Donnie Fatso that it didn't happen. Now you're not only losers, but stupid losers.
True facts.
You're undermining your argument by resorting to 5th grade name calling such as Donnie Fatso. If you want to resort to name calling, at least be more original, witty, or funny. The bar is a bit higher when it comes to humor here.
This
there probably is some room to fix the language so sore losers don't try to imagine a non-existent loophole to overturn an election again.....
but, you can see from some of the comments here..... getting it "right" isn't what they care about. all they care about is the team.... they team they don't like won, and they want to pretend their team did..... they don't even care if they had created a precedent that almost definitely would have worked against them in the future..... they don't want to admit they lost.
how many democrats have opposed seating and certifying presidential electors prior to 2020?
Funny how "getting it right" apparently means "Open Borders", "Mail-In Dumping", "Executive Fiat" and etc, etc, etc....
Kind of like how "getting it right" for democrats is entirely IGNORING the people's law over the government (i.e. Supreme Law) and relying on "democracy" until democracy gets in the way of Nazism and then it's MORE "executive fiat" and Ads from Russia brainwashing the voters.
"Progress" for democrats is throwing away the USA for Nazism and that statement is undeniably true; not a single democrat wants LIMITED government...
Still waiting for the identity of the Supreme Court leaker to be divulged. Nary a peep from ANY media company or indeed any journalist. As Mark Wahlberg’s character says in Shooter “It’s plutonium! Anyone who handles it is dead!”
Sorry my memory holed rant for the day.
So let’s talk Electoral College reform. Maybe we could start with one vote for each represented district as opposed to 50% + 1 vote takes the entire state’s votes? We’re talking actual representation as far as votes go. How about voter ID equivalent to what is required to get welfare benefits? So that no poor overwhelmed minority gives up. Let’s get radical. Show enough interest in the future of the country to actually go vote in person! I know right? Who am I to demand the level of engagement to actually require some effort be put into the course of events for a country that we live in. Sometimes I really do believe that Robert Heinlein had it right in Starship Troopers.
The Panic of 1873 had a lot to do with Britain paying the US $15M for arming Confederate privateers to attack Union shipping. When Tilden (D) won in backlash against Reconstruction, that victory was traded for restoration of Klan terror. Republicans loved the coup, fought efforts to rewrite Electoral Counting law, and watered it. A Black Exodus northward would entrench them when the next census count came around. In 2020, as many courts as there are states tossed out Trumpanzee efforts to rob the election, so there is no need to let the looters worsen the law. What needs repeal is the Nixon anti-Libertarian law subsidizing "TV priest" successors to Father Coughlin's fascist evangelizing.
Please fix your automated word algorithm.
All his posts are word salads. Just scroll on by.
Thomas Berry is a political hack - completely leaving out that democrats famously also voted not to seat and certify electors in previous presidential elections - with way less evidence available pointing to potential fraud than was available last time!
You have zero sense of proportion obviously, but that is automatic for Trump supporters. In 2016 3 House Democrats tried to oppose the EC certification and were shut down by Biden. No senators went along.
In 2020 the majority of House Republicans (147) tried to stop it and numerous GOP Senators (6) went along.
In 2016 Hillary called and congratulated Trump on the late night of the election, Obama welcomed him and his advance team to the WH and as is traditional opened various parts of the Executive branch for them to prepare to take office. Hillary and Obama showed up on the dais for Trump's inauguration, signaling the peaceful transition of power which is essential for a democracy.
In 2020, Trump never conceded, resisted allowing Biden transition teams from accessing Executive branch functions in prep for taking office and ran from Washington before Biden's inauguration like a dog with his tail between his legs - king of the losers and disgraced as a coward.
You mischaracterize what House Republicans were doing. But what else can we expect from a partisan hack like you.
A hack like you should be able to straighten me out then NOYB. Cat got your tongue?
PS It should also be mentioned in this comparison that in 2016 Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million and willingly colluded with the Russians to gain their help in winning the election. This was confirmed by the GOP majority led Senate INtel Comm Report of 2020.
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-volume-5-bipartisan-russia-report
Because Manafort shared polling data with his right -hand man in Ukraine? Naturally Kilimnik would want to know how his old boss was doing.
And RealClearPolitics publishes a plethora of polls right where the Russkies can find them. Traitors!
This could be an interesting article, but I stopped reading immediately at the point where its author claimed that "the courts had already settled" disputes about the legitimacy of the 2020 election by January 6, 2021. As a lawyer who's been immersed in civil procedure for almost five decades, I'd call that a plain, bald-face outright lie. It's a contention I've seen here and elsewhere dozen of times or more, but it's still a false statement that anyone familiar with rudimentary litigation principles should recognize as such. So I completely lost interest in whatever the author might have so say.
I can't find where any case got as far as discovery.
People don't seem to realize that Jan 6 Committee Chair Bennie Thompson himself voted to overturn a free and fair election, by voting to reject Ohio's EVs on Jan 6, 2005. The conspiracy to replace Bush with Kerry consisted of the Congressional Black Caucus, along with California Senator Barbara Boxer
Laughably, the CBC said overthrowing the government was not their intentions, although they had tried to throw Florida's EV's on Jan 6, 2001, hoping to make Gore President.
But they had not lined up a Senator in advance.