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Civil Liberties

New York Gov. Kathy Hochul Blames the Buffalo Shooting on Social Media

"It's all induced by the internet," she said.

Robby Soave | 5.16.2022 3:51 PM

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polspphotos929780 | Dan Cappellazzo/Polaris/Newscom
(Dan Cappellazzo/Polaris/Newscom)

When a psychopath perpetrates a mass shooting, politicians often pick an industry, trend, or substance to blame for having caused the violence. Violent video games are a favorite target of both parties—Democratic senators pilloried them throughout the 1990s and early 00s, and former President Donald Trump went after them following the El Paso shooting in 2019—but so are psychiatric medications, Satanism, and of course, the Second Amendment.

On Saturday, 18-year-old Payton Gendron—a white nationalist conspiracy theorist, according to his online manifesto—traveled to a supermarket in a majority-black area in Buffalo, New York, and killed 11 people, most of them African American. Democratic New York Gov. Kathy Hochul has responded to the horrific violence in Buffalo over the weekend with a familiar invective against guns. But she is also pinning the blame on social media. In a Sunday interview with NBC News' Chuck Todd, she faulted online platforms for not doing more to police extremism.

"It's all induced by the internet," she said. "And the fact that platforms are willing to share this information, allow it to be posted, a manifesto that's been out there that describes in great detail how someone wants to have an execution of individuals in a community that's targeted because it's the highest black population within a geographic area, that's all out there. And also the fact that this can be livestreamed. How long was it livestreamed before someone paid attention?"

There is an answer to her question: two minutes.

"I hold them responsible for not monitoring and alerting law enforcement," she continued. "That's exactly the issue here, is that it is fomenting. People are sharing these ideas. They're sharing videos of other attacks. And they're all copycat. They all want to be the next great white hope that's going to inspire the next attack. We can't let that continue."

The fact of the matter is that social media companies routinely cooperate with law enforcement. All major platforms report suspected criminal activity, child exploitation, and violence to the FBI. To take just one example, in the run-up to the January 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, both Facebook and Parler referred dozens of accounts to the feds.

"Parler had shared over 50 tips with the FBI warning of violence in advance of January 6, including one post, for example, that stated 'don't be surprised if we take the #capital building,'" according to a report by the Government Accountability Office, as noted by Just Security. "Facebook says it also sent the FBI information regarding potential violence at the Capitol on January 6."

Indeed, law enforcement had been warned about Gendron—not by a social media company, but by his school. Last spring, just before he graduated from high school, Gendron threatened to commit a murder-suicide, according to The New York Times. He was hospitalized, evaluated, and eventually released. The matter was referred to the state police, but Gendron "fell off investigators' radar."

These developments are eerily similar to the situation with Nikolas Cruz, who committed the mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. Cruz's erratic, violent behavior was noticed by his family, other students, and teachers. It was reported to school security guards, the local sheriff's office, and eventually the FBI. Law enforcement simply declined to take action to prevent a known psychopath from carrying out his attack.

The "see something, say something" ideology behind U.S. policing says that a well-informed and watchful citizenry is expected to actively monitor for threats and report them to law enforcement. When something goes wrong, the people are often blamed for having been inattentive—for missing the signs. But something close to the reverse is usually true: In the Parkland and Buffalo cases, civilians saw something and said something. Unfortunately, the feds didn't pay enough attention.

That is what's ultimately so frustrating about attempts by Hochul and other political figures to find someone else to blame: They are distracting from mistakes that government actors made, in service of an agenda that usually involves citizens surrendering more liberties.

In fact, with some goading from Todd—who declined to voice any potential downsides of giving the government a broader mandate to police speech—Hochul issued a fact-free condemnation of so-called hate speech.

"I'll protect the First Amendment any day of the week," said Hochul. "But you don't protect hate speech. You don't protect incendiary speech. You're not allowed to scream 'fire' in a crowded theater. There are limitations on speech."

There are limitations on speech; it's a shame that New York's governor doesn't know what they are. Some incendiary statements, if they rise to the level of true threats of violence, are illegal. Hate speech, though, is allowed under the First Amendment. The Supreme Court has never recognized hate speech as a separate category of expression that is exempt from protection. And the fire-in-a-crowded-theater reference is one of the most tortured, misunderstood analogies in the English language: It is absolutely permissible to scream "fire" in a crowded theater, especially if there is an actual fire.

The Buffalo shooting is not a cautionary tale about the dangers of unrestricted speech on the internet, but rather, a sobering wakeup call about how practically difficult it is for the police to prevent violence, even when warned about it. That New York police did not take this threat seriously enough should prompt self-reflection on the part of law enforcement, rather than sweeping condemnations of social media.

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NEXT: Why New York's 'Assault Weapon' Ban Didn't Stop the Buffalo Massacre

Robby Soave is a senior editor at Reason.

Civil LibertiesNew YorkSocial MediaMass ShootingsFirst AmendmentFree Speech
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  1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

    "Parler had shared over 50 tips with the FBI warning of violence in advance of January 6, including one post, for example, that stated 'don't be surprised if we take the #capital building,'" according to a report by the Government Accountability Office, as noted by Just Security. "Facebook says it also sent the FBI information regarding potential violence at the Capitol on January 6."

    And yet these warnings didn't work, because clearly, the violence at the Capitol was far worse than what happened in a Buffalo Grocery store.

    1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      'don't be surprised if we take the #capital building,'

      That also reinforces my understanding of how damn dumb so many of the insurrectionists were.

      1. mad.casual   3 years ago

        So much far-reaching stupid all the way around, it's hard to consider all the dimensions.

        Just imagine if we hadn't torn down the barriers and coordinated efforts between agencies like the FBI and the Capitol Police under the umbrella of the DHS.

      2. (Redacted)   3 years ago

        There were no insurrectionists. As no insurrection took place, amd no one is on trial for insurrection.

        1. Sevo   3 years ago

          Correct. Trespassing and assaulting an officer with a n aluminum flag pole seems to be the most serious charges.
          Because 'protesting' is a non-starter, regardless of the facts.

        2. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

          Thats because they know they cant charge people for insurrection while they themselves were in the act of insurrection.

          Drug test the feds.

    2. Ronbback   3 years ago

      how much of that violent talk on the internet came directly from the FBI itself. Just like the FBI keeps saying there is chatter about right wing extremest who are going to get violent over the Rov/wade decision , what chatter and why. Litterally do not believe them and do believe the FBI will instigate it

      1. raspberrydinners   3 years ago

        You're really lost if you think there aren't nuts out there planning this kind of shit.

        1. ElvisIsReal   3 years ago

          Yet we KNOW FOR SURE that the FBI was trying to get people into the capitol.........

          1. waxliberty   3 years ago

            Where's Jesse – I recall we were eagerly awaiting the house of cards to fall and for it to come out that the FBI orchestrated the whole thing through super agent Richard Epps in plain daylight. Is that official conspiracy canon or not at this point?

            I personally find the MCU multiverse idea confusing and would prefer we just vote on what we think reality is. I vote that the FBI planned Jan 6th and ghostwrote the Eastman memo, orchestrated by pro-communist infiltrators. This is the story the audience wants.

            Of course, the Buffalo shooter was orchestrated by the same.

            These are the interpretations that enable *increased* grievance signaling in response to current events.

            Anything short of that would morally imply a need to self-reflect about the toxic nature of white racial grievance going back to Frazier Glenn Miller, Timothy McVeigh and Thomas Blanton and crew. These things are best kept in the memory hole so that grievance can live and grow stronger.

          2. Outlaw Josey Wales   3 years ago

            The history of the FBI is filled with this kind of internal instigation. The Black Panthers were a great example of this.

            You're really lost if you think there aren't nuts out there planning this kind of shit.

            Plenty of nuts. Ripe for the picking.

            1. waxliberty   3 years ago

              "Plenty of nuts. Ripe for the picking."

              And plenty of folks dedicated to spawning more of them.

        2. (Redacted)   3 years ago

          Sure. You can find someone somewhere Oman isn’t just about anything you can imagine. So what? It’s not like something real that’s dangerous, like leftist groups rioting for months across most major cities in America. Murdering hundreds, causing billions of dollars in property damage and some even committing real insurrection.

      2. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

        +1

        Gotta justify that funding.

  2. Unicorn Abattoir   3 years ago

    "I hold them responsible for not monitoring and alerting law enforcement,"

    Didn't even slow us down when it happened here.

    1. Zeb   3 years ago

      So what are they supposed to do? Have a person assigned to monitor every live stream?

      1. Unicorn Abattoir   3 years ago

        Do you even woodchipper?

        1. Zeb   3 years ago

          Yeah, didn't pick up on the historical reference right away.

      2. Homple   3 years ago

        They do monitor everybody. Probably an algorithm looks for dangerous communications--things like terrorists sharing school board meeting schedules. You'd think they could watch for potential mass murderers just as easily.

      3. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

        It would at least be nice if we didnt get a satellite shoved up our ass every time we drop a dime...

    2. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      If anything, everyone joining together to get the woodchippers out put a little pep in our steps.

      1. Unicorn Abattoir   3 years ago

        Trump's greatest contribution to freedom was firing Preet.

  3. Zeb   3 years ago

    Well social media is the worst thing in the world. But more censorship isn't the fix it needs.

    1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      I can think of worse things.

      1. Zeb   3 years ago

        OK, so can I.

  4. JesseAz   3 years ago

    So let's clear this up instead of letting shrike/jeff/sarc continue to lie about the Buffalo shooter.

    He was a communist through high school.

    He hates libertarians who he thinks are led by Jewish people.

    He hates conservatism.

    He declares himself authoritarian left and more importantly calls himself an eco fascist.

    He came from this views from the left, following 4 chan since may 2020 during covid lockdowns where he got into racial theories including CRT and other theories.

    This is a guy coming from the left, being indoctrinated in modern racial conflict largely supported by the left and exacerbated by forums like 4 chan.

    He had mental issues.

    He chose new york due to lax gun laws.

    Even Glenn Greenwald is calling out the bullshit narrative of the left regarding this shooting.

    The left has weaponized the shooting for both attacking conservatives and pushing social media and gun laws. While also attacking who they fear is the voice of their enemies in Fox and Tucker.

    1. Zeb   3 years ago

      Even Glenn Greenwald is calling out the bullshit narrative of the left regarding this shooting.

      I don't think that's a surprise at this point. Greenwald has been fucking awesome in calling out the bullshit narratives of the left for a few solid years now.

      1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

        That's why he's now racist.

        1. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

          And homophobic, both of which come as a tremendous surprise to his non-white husband.

          1. (Redacted)   3 years ago

            Who is probably a secret Nazi racist homophobe! Or at least identifies as one.

    2. JesseAz   3 years ago

      Strict gun laws, not lax. *

      1. DesigNate   3 years ago

        I was gonna say…

      2. jrayv   3 years ago

        ????

    3. jrayv   3 years ago

      Excellent compilation JesseAz! I saw your correction. If you don't mind sir, I'm going to share this posting on a few different places, i.e. YouTube, Twitter... and give you credit unless you don't want me too.

      ????

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        Tom elliot has it on Twitter with pictures to the parts of the manifesto that reference those things.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          https://mobile.twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1526167486282051584

          1. Ronbback   3 years ago

            thanks just followed so i can have a source

    4. (Redacted)   3 years ago

      In other words, the shooter is a typical moderate democrat who is mostly peaceful.

    5. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

      This dope travelled 200 miles from his 90% white town to shoot black people who theoretically are also being replaced.

      1. Nardz   3 years ago

        Leftists believe all people OF color are all the same, thus leftists cannot conceive of black people being replaced

    6. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

      Hell, you may as well add, 'replacement theory' is indeed racist as shit. But it's not solely province or product of the far right. I recall many a smug progressive gloating about how whites would be bred out, rak comes to mind. The same insisted that all people would be a melange, a caramel color. And, there was the 'brown is the new white' bs that the academe had their circle-jerks over. Hard saying if the theory, book, or racist horseshit came first, but they sure as fuck fed off of each other. And likely the fact that the especially shitty progressives were going out of their way to rub it in white working folks' faces had a bit to do with the rightist racists getting in a lather. Honestly I think the best solution is to isolate them all somewhere, with preet, every activist, the shitty politicians and press, the influencers, hollywood 'stars, and let them fight it out.

    7. raspberrydinners   3 years ago

      Ahh here comes Jesse trying to downplay him being on YOUR side.

      Fuck you dumbass. This is one of your own and your bullshit narrative isn't gonna fly except with all the other willing dumbasses like yourself.

      The only thing you hate is that he is acting out on all the bullshit you continually try to downplay on the right.

      Go fuck yourself.

      1. Zeb   3 years ago

        Fuck off. The binary division of politics isn't a real thing. He's an evil fucking psycho who murdered a bunch of people. He has no side beyond a tiny group of nutters who follow similar ideologies.

    8. raspberrydinners   3 years ago

      I wish I could tag you "racist fuckface who somehow spins replacement theory as a leftist origin."

      Instead of saying it's the left maybe just say it's a terrible thing and the right should stop pushing the bullshit so much.

      But hey, then you'd have to realize the domestic terrorists are all the people you carouse with.

      1. Zeb   3 years ago

        It is undeniably true that there are some on the left who are at least happy with the prospect of white people being replaced or bred out of existence. Now whether or not that is a bad thing is another question.

        1. waxliberty   3 years ago

          *Hold onto that grievance and never let go*

          Grievance fuel like this is a generational opportunity. Seize it. Plot your response.

      2. (Redacted)   3 years ago

        No, domestic terrorists are all basically YOU.

      3. damikesc   3 years ago

        "Instead of saying it's the left maybe just say it's a terrible thing and the right should stop pushing the bullshit so much."

        Instead of pointing out that the guy is a leftist, the right should just take responsibility anyway?

        Got it. Good plan.

        Why don't you and your side cease being so racist to drive people towards this?

    9. Rockstevo   3 years ago

      They know they had a chance to stop this and did nothing so they will be shouting even louder about social media or the gop, anything to take the spotlight off of them.

  5. Longtobefree   3 years ago

    "On Saturday, 18-year-old Payton Gendron—a white nationalist conspiracy theorist, according to his online manifesto—"

    On Saturday, 18-year-old Payton Gendron—a communist who professes to be left wing, according to his online manifesto—

    Po-tay-to / po-tah-to? Or Reason helping the mass media pimp for the left?

    1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

      I don't know enough about this case to comment on it directly, but I really think the left/right divide is not particularly meaningful. I don't know that it ever was other than literally being the sides of the French Revolution.
      We stick to this metaphor because we like binaries, or something. It's just not that useful. You either keep it so vague that it's basically shit-flinging, or you qualify it to the point that it's better not even to mention it. I hate this shit. It's also which gives us Horseshoe Theory, which I don't think holds up well.

      1. Foo_dd   3 years ago

        the right left divide isn't really central to any of these cases..... these people get radicalized, but the real underlying issue is that they are not sane to begin with. it really does not matter what ideology they twisted to justify their acts.

        the only reason left/right even comes up is because all most all politicians don't care about anything else but portraying bad people as part of the other team.

        1. Square = Circle   3 years ago

          the only reason left/right even comes up is because all most all politicians don't care about anything else but portraying bad people as part of the other team

          ^

        2. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

          Kudos! Well said!

      2. Square = Circle   3 years ago

        We stick to this metaphor because we like binaries, or something. It's just not that useful.

        Agreed. I've taken to avoiding using "left" and "right" to speak of Democrats and Republicans, since at this point you can accuse either party of either thing and it makes sense/doesn't make sense pretty much equally.

        As indicated in the never-ending debate over whether Nationalist Socialism is right wing or left wing.

        1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

          It's a term everyone knows, but few rarely choose to define. It's had many meanings over time, and it's used to describe hot button issues. It's perfect for shitflinging, and destructive for discourse.

        2. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

          "As indicated in the never-ending debate over whether Nationalist Socialism is right wing or left wing."

          Kudos! Well said!

        3. Nardz   3 years ago

          There is no debate about national socialism being left or right wing- it is explicitly leftist.

        4. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

          Soros is a nazi
          Pelosi has argued for a combination of socialism and economic nationalism (her words not mine)
          Sanders want socialism and a nationalist immigration policy (seriously he makes trump look like a let them all in)

          1. n00bdragon   3 years ago

            Soros is a nazi

            George Soros may be a lot of things, but he's not a Nazi. He's a jew for crying out loud.

            1. waxliberty   3 years ago

              It's just an adaptation of the anti-semite Elders of Zion type conspiracy theories that have animated the right for a century. How do you continue this and not sound like Nazis? You adapt the story to claim Nazis were essentially leftist and Jews like Soros were part of it (collaborators – 99.9% false stories extrapolating from 13 year old Soros having witnessed confiscation of property). Then you get the best of both worlds – continue the fruitful agitating about Jewish infiltrators but with some plausible deniability by adopting an anti-Nazi mantle.

              Adapt or die is a persistent theme for conspiracy fixations.

    2. DeAnnP   3 years ago

      What some dumbass piece of shit classifies himself as means nothing. 75% do not know the meaning of whatever "ism" they use to insult someone means. It doesn't change the fact that his stated mission was to hunt and kill black people. He was a racist piece of white garbage who felt the need to kill the people that he was told are "replacing" white people.

      1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

        https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2022/05/16/buffalo-shooting-replacement-theory-tucker-carlson-stefanik-gop-white-supremacy/9786209002/?gnt-cfr=1

        Great Replacement Theory? Try language of death wielded by opportunistic right-wing figures
        There is nothing subtle about the rhetoric we hear coming from Fox News’ Tucker Carlson, from Republican governors in states or even from Rep. Elise Stefanik of New York, the No. 3 House Republican.

        Right-wingers OWN this one! But ANY source that says this, will be "refuted" by the authoritarians and racists who post here, who "refute" things by simply saying, "Source is not of MY Sacred Tribe!"

      2. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

        “MY Tribe’s lies leading to violence against your tribe GOOD! Your tribe’s lies leading to violence against MY Tribe BAD! VERY bad!” THIS is a root cause, and THIS is what is going on here! Ridiculous violence must ALWAYS be blamed on the OTHER tribe!

        How about we STOP trying to be the one who hollers “MY Tribe’s lies leading to violence against your tribe GOOD!", etc., the loudest? And start trying to "love our neighbors" a bit better, instead?

        The intelligent, well-informed, and benevolent members of tribes have ALWAYS been resented by those who are made to look relatively worse (often FAR worse), as compared to the advanced ones. Especially when the advanced ones denigrate tribalism. The advanced ones DARE to openly mock “MY Tribe’s lies leading to violence against your tribe GOOD! Your tribe’s lies leading to violence against MY Tribe BAD! VERY bad!” And then that’s when the Jesus-killers, Mahatma Gandhi-killers, Martin Luther King Jr.-killers, etc., unsheath their long knives!

        “Do-gooder derogation” (look it up) is a socio-biologically programmed instinct. SOME of us are ethically advanced enough to overcome it, using benevolence and free will! For details, see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/ and http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/ .

      3. (Redacted)   3 years ago

        Indeed. It’s just such a shame that the democrats radicalize people like this through their obsession and advancement of racial hatred.

      4. Nardz   3 years ago

        So... he's a leftist, like you.

      5. Hank Ferrous   3 years ago

        This is a fairly ignorant take. His motivations were based on how he 'classified' himself, that seems fairly clear. Since you have made the determination that he only did what he did due to racism, perhaps you can tell us what he had for breakfast.

        1. ElvisIsReal   3 years ago

          Moldy bread with a side of Bubba cock?

        2. DeAnnP   3 years ago

          I didnt determine shit. If the manifesto truly was written by him, he states his own reasons for hunting black folks. His fear of being "replaced".

          As I heard somewhere someone say, "Why are white people so scared to become the minority. Are the minority treated badly or something?"

          1. waxliberty   3 years ago

            Just seeing the usual cognitive dissonance playing out. There are two knee-jerk responses that conflict, and takes awhile for the tribe to agree on one response or the other, based on how bad it sounds.

            (a) Double down on grievance – he's mentally ill, but "the left" weaponized him into this, through their hatred of white people which is clearly documented through decades of forcing civil rights of non-whites down the throats of white. If anything this underscores how valid our white racial grievances are – something needs to be done or we will I mean crazy lone wolfs will strike again.

            (b) This is lies – this was done *by* the left, if you read the manifesto correctly its clear by racial replacement and "fascist" the shooter meant leftist ideas, because breaking people into groups is essentially Marxist.

            Of course it will ultimately be a mixture of the two.

            In reality, the shooter self-identifies as white supremacist and acting as a part of that community. It's not so much mental illness as ideology. After all, if the grievances and many many conspiracy theories of the right are true, individuals *are* fighting multi-cultural tyranny, an attempt to erase white people, and violence is a rational response.

            The only response that is off the table is anything remotely accountability for toxic ideas. Limiting grievance in any way is the third rail, given it is seen as the fuel to political power.

    3. Nardz   3 years ago

      Reason is a more subtle version of The Root/Daily Stormer

  6. Longtobefree   3 years ago

    Only a Robbie would want the manifesto taken down, so the cops couldn't possibly find it if they ever did an actual investigation.

  7. Unicorn Abattoir   3 years ago

    "I'll protect the First Amendment any day of the week," said Hochul. "But you don't protect hate speech. You don't protect incendiary speech. You're not allowed to scream 'fire' in a crowded theater. There are limitations on speech."

    Hochul's a fucking idiot.

    1. Zeb   3 years ago

      "I'll protect the First amendment, but I won't protect the First amendment."

      1. BestUsedCarSales   3 years ago

        Look, the first amendment was never intended to protect speech we disagreed with. The Constitution is not a Suicide Pact.

        1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

          Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

          I know my reading comprehension has been called into question, but I don't see one thing about "speech I disagree with". Emanations, penumbras etc., so Hochul seems... wrong within normal parameters at worst and 100% correct at best.

          1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

            You missed the sarcasm

        2. CE   3 years ago

          And in the Second amendment, the founders clearly meant to say "okay, look, you can keep your single-shot flintlock for deer hunting to feed your family, and you're allowed to keep guns in general to help protect the country from foreign and internal military threats, just as long as they're not as good as the guns the Army gets."

    2. mad.casual   3 years ago

      Hochul's a fucking idiot.

      It's always interesting that these people who refuse to yell 'fire' in a crowded theater never actually mention that the theater is on fire or not.

      1. Longtobefree   3 years ago

        Because the statement is actually, not allowed to FALSELY yell fire in a crowded theatre. You are expected to yell fire if there is a fire.
        Some memory holes are like a sieve.
        "Ignorance is bliss" is actually "Where ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise".
        Which not only makes more sense, it is also true. Welcome to America.

        1. ElvisIsReal   3 years ago

          You can also yell it if you only believe there is a fire but are incorrect. The 'crime' comes from knowing you're full of shit and doing it anyway.

    3. Sevo   3 years ago

      "I'll protect the First Amendment any day of the week," said Hochul. "But..."

      No, you don't.

  8. Quo Usque Tandem   3 years ago

    Cable 24 hour newsfeed in the 80s and 90s, social media 21st century. Sure it plays a part; conspiracy, hostility, decline in civility, encouragement, and most certainly the instant notoriety that comes from committing such a heinous act, especially it if involves guns and expressed racism [unless the perpetrator is a minority targeting oppressors, in which case the story is back paged and memory holed as soon as possible; gotta have the right narrative].

    1. CE   3 years ago

      Maybe we should ban 24 hour cable news?

      1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

        It is in my house.

  9. Jefferson's Ghost   3 years ago

    "It is absolutely permissible to scream "fire" in a crowded theater, especially if there is an actual fire."

    I would take this one step further: it is absolutely permissible to scream "fire" in a crowded theater if you really believe there is a fire.

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

      Indeed.

    2. Zeb   3 years ago

      And it's always good to remind people that the "fire in a crowded theater" thing was made as an argument for being able to punish someone for distributing anti-war literature.

      1. mad.casual   3 years ago

        There's a lot of context rather intentionally and consistently being lost in the 'Fire in a crowded theater' idiom (the speaker has to be knowingly and unjustifiably inciting a panic, which speaking secondhand after the fact somewhere else should preclude, their inciting a panic has to generate danger or harm beyond themselves...) and, it seems, virtually every time it gets used, people readily point that out. You'd think progressives would progress and it would stop getting used.

      2. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

        Good old woody wilson

  10. Corporatist Remover   3 years ago

    I love it when one wing of the regime (the governor of New York) attacks another wing of the regime (the social media giants).

  11. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

    FYI, it's not just New York Governor claiming this, it's journalists and journalism that's claiming this.

  12. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

    Hopefully, whatever happens he will be spared the inhumane punishment of the death penalty.

  13. Bill Dalasio   3 years ago

    In the Parkland and Buffalo cases, civilians saw something and said something. Unfortunately, the feds didn't pay enough attention.

    Now, now, Robby, ease up on them. They're really, really, busy tracking down domestic terrorists like parents who don't like what their kids' schools are teaching and uncovering non-existent collusion efforts between the Russians and Donald Trump.

    1. mad.casual   3 years ago

      You left out the 'plotting to kindap Governors' and 'making the Bundys pay taxes on the federal land they rented' side hustles.

  14. Stuck in California   3 years ago

    So, when we talk about social media causing all of this, I think the best evidence we can possibly offer is the story of the worst school killer in American history:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

    over 100 people suffered, 38 school kids dead plus some adults, and his own family. Over 50 others wounded. His story should tell us everything we know about how much social media drives these psychos.

    1. Zeb   3 years ago

      These psychos are so rare I really don't think there is much sense in worrying or arguing about things like this. Psychos can be set off by all kinds of things. 100 years ago it obviously wasn't anything to do with social media. Now maybe it is, but so what? Millions of other people are exposed to the same stuff and don't murder anyone. So to say that anything external "causes" mass shootings, be it social media, 4-chan or whatever seems dumb. It happens because some people are psychos. And less social interaction, online or in the real world isn't going to help. If there is a chance of stopping someone like this before they kill a bunch of people, then there need to be some people exposed to what they are thinking.

      1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

        These psychos are so rare I really don't think there is much sense in worrying or arguing about things like this. Psychos can be set off by all kinds of things.

        No shit, just look what happened when a memo about returning the question of killing your kid back to the states was released.

      2. Stuck in California   3 years ago

        If you've ever had a relationship with a psychopath -- a family member, significant other, someone in your friend circle, a coworker -- you know that there's literally nothing you can do to change them doing whatever they think they can get away with.

        One of the hallmark signs of someone in an abusive relationship is blaming themselves for the psychopath's bad behavior. In the psychopath's mind, they either don't care, or can justify the most horrible things in terms of "Now look what you made me do."

        It's not your fault. It's not mine. It's not Twitter's, no matter how repulsive twitter is. It's a psychopath's fault.

        But politicians are generally sociopathic themselves, willing to instantly blame someone else for their own personal gain. They want their party to have more power, they'll say horrible things about people they don't think will vote for them. And they don't think there's anything wrong with that. "It's your fault. Look what you made him do. "

  15. Jima   3 years ago

    "New York Gov. Kathy Hochul Blames the Buffalo Shooting on Social Media" I blame the trigger puller. He's the problem. There are probably thousands of other idiots that spout bullshit as evil as this particular idiot. Unfortunately, the Government cannot reliably predict which nitwit will actually commit an atrocity. So they want to disarm everyone, "for our own good" or some such nonsense. Same as ever. In a world with millions of humans, there will be some senseless violence. We fight to minimize it without giving up our right to well armed self defense. There are many meanings to the saying freedom isn't free. There's no such thing as safe slavery either, so we'll need to keep working to improve the safety of our freedom. Because the government would be happy to make us slaves.

  16. williams25248   3 years ago

    100% of the blame falls on 18-year-old Payton Gendron. No one else. How many thousands of other people read the same online garbage this guy did and did NOT go out and commit mass murder? This Gendron guy had some bad wiring. He's not representative of a racist nation, or any class of people. But that's how he will be spun. Never let a good crisis go to waste.

    1. Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland   3 years ago

      Nope 100% trump.. Do you even reason libritarian

  17. Marshal   3 years ago

    Apparently "conspiracy theory" now means "anything a crazy person believes even if the political establishment also believes it enough to base their political strategy on it".

    1. CE   3 years ago

      Actually, "conspiracy theory" now means any right wing theory that the government is up to no good.

      1. Marshal   3 years ago

        It's not a right wing theory. Left wingers have been taunting everyone else with it for decades.

    2. waxliberty   3 years ago

      This. Not a conspiracy theory, a demographic trend. Not a crazy person, an individual acting rationally within the right's ideological fixation and strategy around grievance.

  18. CE   3 years ago

    Violent video games are a favorite target of both parties... —but so are psychiatric medications, Satanism, and of course, the Second Amendment.

    One of these things is not like the others. Crime went down nationwide as violent video games became more popular. The First and Second amendments protect the rights of people on the last two. Only one of the four listed actually changes brain chemistry.

  19. Brandybuck   3 years ago

    ... because there were no shootings before the internet and social media. True fact that. At least it's true in some people's minds.

    I am old enough to remember when shootings where caused by rap music, and video games before that. I'm sure if you go back far enough someone will be blaming it on that new fangled radio thing.

    1. CE   3 years ago

      Don't forget TV. At least the statistics tracked TV adoption for a while, instead of being negatively correlated, as with video games and the internet.

    2. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

      I'm old enough to remember when shootings were caused by extremely affordable, concealable "snub nosed revolvers", aka "cheap handguns". "If we just eliminate cheap handguns," I was carefully told, "the real causes of gun crime in America would dry up."

      1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

        "Saturday night specials"-- that was it. I couldn't remember the media/journalist catch-phrase that was sweeping the nation.

        1. Dillinger   3 years ago

          Lynyrd Skynyrd on line 2 ...

    3. Ronbback   3 years ago

      Remember when shootings were called going postal after several people literally went postal in post offices, back in the 70's i think, i was a kid then. then there was a run of shootings at McDonalds but no body wants to call it going McDonals so postal stuck.

      1. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

        There was a case of a woman in Ohio who shot her husband and 3 kids dead. It was considered so abnormal that all three major networks cut into their late night programing to cover it. It happened in the 70's and I couldn't find any references to that today.

  20. Cyto   3 years ago

    To echo others.. why the description as a "white nationalist conspiracy theorist" and leave it at that. Why not "self described authoritarian leftist....". Why not "self-desccribed leftist nationalist....".

    He self-adopted many labels. He also self disavowed several others.

    Yet you chose to play the red vs blue word games to paint him as being of the right. Something he personally and vociferously seems to denounce.

    That hardly seems accurate, neutral or non-political.

    The efforts to throat clear and the hand washing detract from the truth.

  21. Otis R. Needleman   3 years ago

    This bitch doesn't assign any blame to law enforcement not doing their jobs, just trying to attack the First and Second Amendments. Like it or not, First Amendment protects "hate speech". What one person may call "hate speech" could be nothing of the kind to someone else.

  22. Longtobefree   3 years ago

    Just wondering, how many other days in 2022 have eleven people been shot?

    1. Don't look at me!   3 years ago

      33 last weekend in Chicago, 5 dead.
      Just like any other weekend in Chicago.

    2. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

      How many other days a week have 22 people died of an overdose of gay-trafficked gun-grabber heroin?

      You need to stop looking at the symptom as the whole disease.

  23. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

    Facts are, no one buys our stuff except guns. Guns are our number one export. No one pays California for their bullshit anymore. All your videogames are a blackhole sucking a tit of executive branch Americana subsidies. All your books are a blackhole sucking a tit of executive branch Americana subsidies. All your movies are a blackhole sucking a tit of executive branch Americana subsidies. And, well all your milk...

    Frankly, all your base.

    To stop selling guns because your junkies are all getting far too fierce, seems like the wrong way to go about things.

    All the places with low crime rates all have nosebleed gun ownership stats.

    All the places with rampant crime all have unparalleled drug trafficking...

    Are we beginning to see a pattern here?

    Besides all that, it's not hard for anyone to catfish for a group and then go kill people.

    Guns are hardly the only way to kill people. The people who all want gun control are all the people that hate America the most.

    1. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

      Have you really considered what might be wrong?

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        I think we all have an idea what’s wrong here.

        1. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

          But to change anything, first you have to find the key stone. You need to find the heart of the matter.

          Have you thought what that might be?

          The heart of this issue is whether or not there are people unnaturally failing while others are unnaturally prosperous.

          In this way you also need to address the unnatural component. I dont have that point quite yet.

  24. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

    But yah, I'd cite social media also. Only place in the world you can find the lgbtqxyz alphabet people censoring mention of their fully supported afghan pederast heroin cartel dope franchise.

  25. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

    Drug test the feds.

  26. Sevo   3 years ago

    New guv =/= smarter guv.

  27. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

    First they came for our religion, then they came for our guns, then they came for our skin.

    So, people are fighting back. What do you expect, fags.

    1. R Mac   3 years ago

      Who are you talking to?

    2. waxliberty   3 years ago

      Sorry, you are politically inconvenient at the moment. Lay low for a few days if you wouldn't mind. There is important spin going on in this forum.

      1. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

        See? Even you'd call me a white supremacist just for addressing a real and actual issue.

        When the content of a subject cant be honestly discussed.....

        Demagogue a equally racist, if not the actual racism in and of itself, then there are people withan innate interest to fight back.

        The whole "only white people are racist" propoganda is completely racist and drives racism.

        "Make a group where there was none, and it might fight back. Then damn them as having always been a group because they fought back" is a pretty disgusting habit the lefty nepotist pigs routinely play.

        1. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

          Its pretty safe to say the dixicrats are inciting race war. And their junky stooge slaves are playing right along to that tune.

          Anyone should be surprised?

          1. Tony   3 years ago

            So what you're saying is that it's perfectly cool for random innocent black people to be murdered?

            1. waxliberty   3 years ago

              He's just saying it was "fighting back".

              I didn't call you anything Cat. You're just off message. The current preferred tactic is to claim this is a crazy person, not to endorse it as action that follows logically from the ideology of seeing whites only as oppressed victims.

              I'm sure Dynamite Bob in 1963 also thought he was just acting to protect whites when he bombed those kids in Birmingham.

              I sincerely hope you talk to family, clergy or the police if the urge to do this kind of thing becomes too strong. God bless.

  28. Jerry B.   3 years ago

    So, after they remove the "hate speech" from social media, they'll have to go after email, messaging, telephone calls, printers, meetings, and conversation.

    The remarks about Rethuglican, Right-wing, Nazi, racist, misogynists in the Washington Post's comments section will, however, continue.

  29. raspberrydinners   3 years ago

    Why should anyone be surprised that the fascists on reason are trying to downplay this and say it's somehow the left's fault this white nationalist went on a racist shooting spree?

    Take some personal responsibility for your rhetoric for once. What a sad bunch of racist assholes here.

    1. waxliberty   3 years ago

      As predictable as the sunrise.

  30. Jeff Mason   3 years ago

    Yes, ban social media to stop gun violence! Make Facebook, TikTok and Instagram illegal! Makes about as much since as banning guns because they look mean. Here’s a radical concept, why don’t we make people responsible for their own action? Just a thought.

    1. Longtobefree   3 years ago

      Because that would imply the existence of an individual, not a collective.

      1. waxliberty   3 years ago

        Which would undercut opportunities to leverage collective white grievance for power.

  31. NOYB2   3 years ago

    The shooting was induced by teaching kids that they are members of racial groups locked in a conflict that has lasted centuries. And they are taught that hateful ideology in school.

    1. Tony   3 years ago

      We are members of racial groups locked in a conflict that has lasted centuries. White racists have been insisting on it the whole time.

  32. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

    The problem is that the shooter had legitimate and founded concerns.

    Make a group where there was none and it might fight back. If you dont find a problem, make one. Fbi tactics 101.

    1. BlackCat13th   3 years ago

      I totally made a big big comment on this that since went missing... so, enjoy instead the minimalist unsubstantiated redacted version.

      Just another way fbi investigations cause more harm than good.

  33. Tony   3 years ago

    "They are distracting from mistakes that government actors made, in service of an agenda that usually involves citizens surrendering more liberties."

    There it is. It's not liberal gun laws or the internet or video games that's to blame, it's the government. You have to know that such a freakishly dogmatic position is in service of interests that don't give a shit how many people get ripped apart.

    I agree that government is feckless in the face of gun violence in America. It has done far too little to restrict people's freedoms.

    A guy can, as freely as you can imagine, acquire an arsenal and blow up a hundred children. They can do that, and so sometimes they do. You can blame your simplistic bogeyman too, but we're all adults here. We're not going to make people less mentally ill by hoping real hard, especially without any government investment in the matter. So lots of guns means lots of dead people for various horrific motives.

    How many of those lives cut short are directly Reason's fault, I wonder if we can reckon?

  34. ONTIME   3 years ago

    This why they call her Horse S**t Hochul......They used to call her Road Apple, she collected them and tried to sell them as nourishment.....

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