The FBI Secretly Searched Americans' Digital Communications 3.4 Million Times Last Year
Plus: A questionable algorithm can sic state social workers on families, governments aren't the only entities that can expand contraceptive access, and more...

The feds still use warrantless surveillance to invade the privacy of millions of Americans. A new transparency report from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) shows that from December 1, 2020, to November 30, 2021, the FBI used its Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) powers to search the communications of up to 3,394,053 Americans without a warrant.
Under FISA, this type of snooping is technically legal. But there is a strong argument that it is unconstitutional, violating Americans' 4th Amendment rights.
"Today's report sheds light on the extent of these unconstitutional 'backdoor searches,' and underscores the urgency of the problem," said Ashley Gorski, a senior staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, in a statement.
The ODNI report's main thrust is about the use of FISA powers, which allow various forms of federal spying. For the first time, "includes the number of queries using U.S. person identifiers run by FBI" against information acquired under Section 702 of FISA Title VII.
Section 702 collection targets non-U.S. persons outside the U.S. and does not require a probable cause court order. (Authorities must instead seek permission from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which basically greenlights all such requests.)
A total of 232,432 people were Section 702 targets in 2021.
"Under the law, targets need not be suspected of wrongdoing; they can include journalists, academics, lawyers, and human rights workers abroad," Gorski points out. "The U.S. government sweeps up its targets' emails, text messages, and other communications, including their communications with Americans—all without a warrant."
Within this data, federal authorities—including the National Security Agency, the CIA, and the FBI—may snoop on Americans, too. And the FBI has the broadest authority to do so.
Whereas other agencies can only search Section 702-acquired data for foreign intelligence information, the ODNI report notes that the "FBI is authorized to conduct queries that are both reasonably likely to return foreign intelligence information and…queries that are reasonably likely to return evidence of a crime":
While FBI receives Section 702 collection for only a small percentage of the total Section 702 targets (approximately 4.4% in March 2022), the frequency with which FBI uses U.S. person query terms is greater than other agencies.
The difference in frequency is largely attributable to FBI's domestic-focused mission versus the other agencies' foreign-focused missions. FBI queries are often initiated through tips and leads relating to domestic matters, provided by the public and domestic partners, meaning they are more likely to involve U.S. persons.
If there were 232,432 Section 702 targets, how did we get from there to as many as 3,394,053 people's communications being searched? Because it isn't just the immediate targets who get swept up in these spying expeditions. The second number represents "the number of U.S. person queries of contents and noncontents that the FBI conducts to retrieve foreign intelligence information and/or evidence of a crime from unminimized Section 702-acquired collection," the ODNI report explains.
Unminimized information is "information for which a determination has not been made as to whether it contains foreign intelligence information." This means identifiable data about individual Americans has not been excised or redacted.
The reason we can only say "up to 3,394,053" people and not the exact total is because the number of U.S.-person queries don't correspond directly to the number of the people. (To quote the report: "A single U.S. person might be associated with 10 unique query terms including name, social security number, passport number, phone number, multiple email addresses, etc. These 10 identifiers could be run 10 different times throughout the reporting period, resulting in 100 queries associated with a single individual.") In addition, a "U.S. person" could mean a specific citizen or lawful permanent resident or it could mean a U.S.-based corporation.
"Though the FBI's arithmetic is fuzzy, it's clear that the scale of the problem is enormous," Gorski commented on Twitter.
"For anyone outside the U.S. government, the astronomical number of FBI searches of Americans' communications is either highly alarming or entirely meaningless," declared Sen. Ron Wyden (D–Ore.) in a statement. "Somewhere in all that over-counting are real numbers of FBI searches, for content and for noncontent—numbers that Congress and the American people need before Section 702 is reauthorized."
"The FBI must also be transparent about the particular circumstances in which it conducted a staggering 1.9 million additional queries in 2021," Wyden added. "Finally, the public deserves to know whether the FBI has fully addressed the extensive abuses of its 702 search authorities that have been documented for years. Baseline transparency is essential if the federal government wants to hold such sweeping surveillance powers."
"The report doesn't say the [FBI] activity was illegal or even wrong. But the revelation could renew congressional and public debates over the power U.S. agencies have to collect and review intelligence information, especially data concerning individuals," comments Inkl. "In comparison, fewer than 1.3 million queries involving Americans' data were conducted between December 2019 and November 2020."
Here is how the ODNI report explained the spike in numbers:
In the first half of the year, there were a number of large batch queries related to attempts to compromise U.S. critical infrastructure by foreign cyber actors. These queries, which included approximately 1.9 million query terms related to potential victims—including U.S. persons—accounted for the vast majority of the increase in U.S. person queries conducted by FBI over the prior year.
You can find much more information on FISA-pursuant surveillance and searches here.
FREE MINDS
A questionable algorithm can sic state social workers on families. An algorithm used by social workers to decide which families should be investigated for child neglect is raising concerns, report Sally Ho and Garance Burke of the Associated Press. "From Los Angeles to Colorado and throughout Oregon, as child welfare agencies use or consider tools similar to the one in Allegheny County, Pennsylvania, an Associated Press review has identified a number of concerns about the technology, including questions about its reliability and its potential to harden racial disparities in the child welfare system," they write.
Related issues have already torpedoed some jurisdictions' plans to use predictive models, such as the tool notably dropped by the state of Illinois.
According to new research from a Carnegie Mellon University team obtained exclusively by AP, Allegheny's algorithm in its first years of operation showed a pattern of flagging a disproportionate number of Black children for a "mandatory" neglect investigation, when compared with white children. The independent researchers, who received data from the county, also found that social workers disagreed with the risk scores the algorithm produced about one-third of the time.
FREE MARKETS
Governments aren't the only entities that can expand access to contraception and abortion. A new paper from by Elizabeth Smith, Christopher Purdy, and Liam Blunt of DKT International looks at the private sector's potential to deliver contraception and abortion services in low- and middle-income countries. "Many country commitments supporting FP2020, a global movement focused on increasing access to contraceptives, extol the role of government intervention," write the researchers. The academic literature and reproductive-access research groups also tend to focus on government-provided medicine and care. But "this public sector orientation within the reproductive health community disproportionately diminishes the important role of the private sector in meeting the reproductive health needs of couples around the world, particularly in the area of safe abortion":
A growing body of evidence suggests the private sector is a significant (and in some countries, the primary) channel for contraceptive access. This is even more likely to be true for safe abortion products and technology, or during times of health crises (like the COVID-19 pandemic) when national governments are understandably investing their resources to respond to complex emergencies. In addition, the private sector is often overlooked for the critical responsibility it shoulders in delivering products to the public sector and ensuring their uptake. Failing to fully acknowledge the power of the private sector further downplays women's autonomy in contraceptive choice and obscures the social stigma mitigated by the anonymity afforded by private sector channels which play a critical role in supporting women and men's access to contraception and safe abortion products, services, and technology. It is a key channel for product and service delivery for consumers, as well as the main source of such products to the public sector.
QUICK HITS
As a founder, I came up with the House Freedom Caucus name, logo, and mission statement. It was meant to be a group focused on process, not conservatism—and certainly not nationalism or Trumpism. When Trump and the GOP establishment merged, so did the group—making it irrelevant. https://t.co/fuFiCi8xeZ
— Justin Amash (@justinamash) April 29, 2022
• President Biden's approval rating has improved slightly from a few months ago. "With a 42 percent approval rating overall, Biden gets low marks on his handling of the economy and inflation and Republicans are significantly more trusted than Democrats on both measures," reports The Washington Post.
• After the war: "In the aftermath of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it's time for Europe to step up and America to step back," writes Reason's Matt Welch.
• Arizona Attorney General Mark Brnovich's demands for election reform are nonsensical, suggests Yavapai County, Arizona, judge John Napper. "The problem, Napper said, is that Brnovich has failed to explain to anyone—himself included—why the attorney general believes the provisions he wants removed are illegal," reports Tucson.com. "Instead, the judge said, all Brnovich did is demand that [Secretary of State Katie] Hobbs accede to the changes he wants, changes she has so far refused to make."
• Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales talks with Reason's Katherine Mangu-Ward about social media and decentralization.
• Another environmental initiative backfires?
April 30 marks the one-year anniversary of New York's premature closure of the #IndianPoint nuclear plant. Data collected by the electricity regulator @NewYorkISO show that its electricity was replaced by fossil combustion, not renewables & efficiency. https://t.co/QvRi0MFSj5 pic.twitter.com/Z6Sj0sHVsH
— Nuclear NY (@nuclearny) April 29, 2022
• Just when you thought Congressional hearings couldn't get any dumber…
My sources in DC say if GOP takes Congress being a woke CEO will mean hours of hearing testimony— Disney's clash with Ron DeSantis shows new pushback toward companies speaking out on social issues. https://t.co/EbTR9l4sse
— Charles Gasparino (@CGasparino) May 1, 2022
• Coin Center is fighting back against an overreaching SEC rule:
The current definition regulates conduct:
"bringing together orders" and "using methods" to effectuate trades.
The new proposed definition would regulate speech as speech:
"bringing together buyers and sellers" and "making available" "communications protocols" 5/
— Peter Van Valkenburgh (@valkenburgh) April 14, 2022
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Fuck Joe Biden
Lets go Brandon.
He 'slightly improved' according to ENB on the poll numbers. 🙂
The man is the second coming of Jimmy Carter, just more venal.
You misspelled senile.
With poll numbers like these….
NB: Latinos comprise ~ 19% of the population and growing, blacks ~ 12%
https://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/NPR_PBS-NewsHour_Marist-Poll_USA-NOS-and-Tables_202204271123.pdf
Latinos say they intend to vote for the GOP by 52-39%
Independent say they intend to vote for the GOP 45%-38%
NPR/Marist: In general, do you have a favorable or an unfavorable impression of Joe Biden?
White: 56% Unfavorable
Latino: 57% Unfavorable
NPR/Marist: Which Party would do a Better job handling:
The Economy:
Republicans 42% (+16)
Democrats 26%
Crime:
Republicans 41% (+21)
Democrats 20%
National Security:
Republicans 43% (+19)
Democrats 24%
Inflation:
Republicans 41% (+21)
Democrats 20%
White: 56% Unfavorable
Latino: 57% Unfavorable
Latino immigrants (legit ones) are familiar with what incipient dictatorships are like and can smell what the DNC is cooking.
The psychotic woke bit and all the race baiting is grossing them out too.
¡Si!
What's happened since the Floyd riots is that the far-left's guns have been getting overspray on Hispanics. You had the Chicago police tell the Latin Kings they were free to act as a neighborhood militia and fuck up any rioters that crossed in to their territory. There's been a number of articles recently trying to attach the "white privilege" tag to lighter-skinned Latinos, and the pejorative "white Hispanic" has been a thing since George Zimmerman. Then there's the "Latinx" bullshit, which is only spouted by Hispanic college strivers looking to fit in with self-loathing, left-wing white people.
It's not that Hispanics are trending more conservative, it's mainly because the DNC is largely reflecting the pretenses of upper middle-class white academics, not blue-collar workers.
The weirdest thing is that any president could be roasting babies over an open fire and eating them and their approval ratings would never go below 30-40%. Who are these people that are still approving of Corn Pop?
They're also bad dudes.
Major media, suburban wine moms, black people and the unconstipated tourists that wandered in recently.
Who are these people that are still approving of Corn Pop?
Partisans.
About one third of the population is going to support the sitting president no matter what.
Fuck Joe Biden
Fuck Joe Biden
The feds still use warrantless surveillance to invade the privacy of millions of Americans.
Because warrants are sooooooo hard to get.
My warrantless search protects you, your warrantless search protects me.
Like treaties, no one does warrants anymore.
Ooh, the very scary FBI. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
To get a warrant, you have to swear to the facts on the application. It's better to not put your lies on record.
Under FISA, this type of snooping is technically legal.
The best kind of legal!
But the least satisfying type of snooping.
"The FBI Secretly Searched Americans' Digital Communications 3.4 Million Times Last Year"
Still waiting for ENB and other Reason writers and editors to apologize for lying about and demonizing Trump for the past five years.
I just shook my head. I could understand maybe 340 times in a year...but 3.4 million?
The FISA Court must be abolished.
Reason Editors aren't even talking about the ministry of truth anymore, they're too busy with DeSantis' War On Free Enterprise. What makes you think they'll ever address their lies about Trump?
Dude, it's been like three days. You can't expect ENB to focus on an issue for that long unless it involves Trump or abortion.
You can't expect ENB to focus on an issue for that long unless it involves Trump, DeSantis or abortion.
Fixed.
But it was posted to Twitter, so ENB had to have seen it
She doesn’t follow THOSE people on Twitter.
Somewhat On-Topic: Is this the Fort Sumter of CWII?
Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
"We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled," Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft circulated inside the court.
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/02/supreme-court-abortion-draft-opinion-00029473
Hank’s about to lose whatever is left of his mind.
President Biden's approval rating has improved slightly from a few months ago. "With a 42 percent approval rating overall, Biden gets low marks on his handling of the economy and inflation and Republicans are significantly more trusted than Democrats on both measures," reports The Washington Post.
Sounds like wingnut.com disinformation to me. Reason's leading economics expert says the i-word is a myth and the economy is fantastic.
#DefendBidenAtAllCosts
I heard that from 2009 to 2016 Reason's leading economics expert used the Warren Buffett Net Worth Index (instead of GDP growth) to prove Obama's economy was the best ever. Well, the WBNWI is plus $8.3 billion for 2022.
Furthermore, rig count is up.
#BestEconomyEver
Every time I look at the WBNWI I just think to myself, "He could be richer..."
I'm envious of your glass-half-full attitude.
A questionable algorithm can sic state social workers on families.
Skynet is just finally thinking of the children.
Mostly black children.
My favorite part was:
"The independent researchers, who received data from the county, also found that social workers disagreed with the risk scores the algorithm produced about one-third of the time."
---------------
If it's correct 66% of the time, that sets a new government record by FAR.
That's a big if. How often are the social workers right?
FUCK! You got me there.
Of the 232,432 of those tracked, oddly enough they were all republican doners
What a unexpected coinkydink. Sheer happenstance I'm sure.
Days since enbs last yglasias reffrence :~24
Matthew Yglesias
@mattyglesias
·
30m
I agree that one shouldn’t spend a lot of time arguing with bad faith actors, but that just means you should find good faith actors to argue with not totally avoid engaging on the merits.
Reminder. He bragged about gaslighting readers into thinking the Trump tax cuts didn't help them.
Who is this Yglesias asshole you keep referring to?
ENBs Twitter crush from Vox.
Imagine if Lenin had stayed in Germany and was also a eunuch.
Governments aren't the only entities that can expand access to contraception and abortion.
BLASPHEMY!
Governments aren't the only entities that can expand access to executions either.
The Libertarian Case For Gangs And Lynching
most every store carries contraceptives so article is a little late to the game
You are correct, but I don't recall seeing any late-term abortions on the shelf at my local Wal-Mart. I haven't wanted to find any, but I didn't check Walgreen's.
ENB apparently not familiar w/ the condom machines in truck stops, bars... For a writer at a magazine purporting to be about free markets and free minds, seems like a major oversight.
Thank God mayorkas went onto friendly news stations yesterday and promised the ministry of truth wouldn't be used on American citizens. Even though he also said it would be used against Spanish speaking ads for the 2022 election.
It's very important to target Spanish language campaign ads. Everyone knows that Spanish speaking people are too stupid to listen to ads and discern for themselves what's true and what isn't.
It has nothing to do with the fact that they're losing Latino voters in huge numbers and Dems can't win (legitimately) without the black and Latino vote.
Hey, its not that Latinos are too stupid, its that their child-like intellects make them highly susceptible to misinformation, and thus doing things not in their best interests*.
*As determined by the DNC and Latinx activists.
It must piss them off to no end that they own all the big media megaphones and yet most people still don't believe their narratives.
Not just evil working class whites, but the Latino and the Blacks they thought were safely on their plantation.
promised the ministry of truth wouldn't be used on American citizens.
"Any citizen simply has to request removal from the MiniTru usage list."
Which will be managed by the same people who manage the No Fly list.
Just as effective as the No Call list.
See the officials in Room 101.
It's reasonable to assume all the spam callers are the FBI and the minute you agree to extend your automobile service warranty you'll be arrested for participating in a scam.
The good news is that you can request to have your name taken off the list. The bad news is that the contents of the list is classified. You can only request to be removed from the list if you have proof you are on the list, which you will never have since it is classified.
If you think I am kidding, look at how DHS handled the no fly list. This is exactly how this will work if their past performance is any indication of their future performance.
I think if you ask to be taken off the list, you will be put on the list. So just ask again.
We can neither confirm nor deny your presence on the list.
Your removal from the list would be plus ungood, and is negated.
Catch 22 is a bitch.
Hilarious and horrifying at the same time.
Back at the beginning you just find out when you are trying to check in for your flight at the airport and the airline notifies you that your 3-year-old son is on the list.
Yeah, you know, all those Spanish-speaking Russians.
Under the law, targets need not be suspected of wrongdoing; they can include journalists, academics, lawyers, ..
I think we can assume those people are wrongdoers.
Proven fact, not assumption.
The Disinformation Governance Board agrees.
Not so fast! What party affiliations are we talking about?
Which gives me another idea. How about if reporters and editors had to include a (D), (R), (L), or whatever in their bylines?
Ahhhh the algorithms bad because black families get picked more for investigation, not because it compleatly anti libritarian and give the gov an excuse to harass everyone
Skin color is the most important thing
It was the cause for slavery, right? I think I read that in Project 1619.
I mean, that's literally what the issue is here--CPS offices are using software that flags potential cases based on prior trends, and it just so happens that black kids turn out to be more likely to end up in situations related to neglect or abuse.
"If a kid calls his grandmama "Mommy," and his mama "Pam," he's going to jail!"--Chris Rock, back when black people calling out the more dysfunctional aspects of black culture in America, instead of blaming it on whitey by default (the Ta-Nahesi Coates Thesis of race relations), wasn't considered verboten.
I mean, it's not like the creepy "pre-crime" aspects of this, nor the increasing reliance on technology rather than human beings to assess these situations, are the real problems--it's "inequity" that's the issue!
The algorithm made me do it is the new my dog ate my warrent
So, will the aspiration for Top Algorithms replace the old school attempts to empower Top People?
Not if chemjeff has anything to say about it. Top Men is his fetish.
LOL
Jeff Bezos' newspaper pretends to believe there's something wrong with billionaires controlling media.
How a billionaires boys’ club came to dominate the public square
As a Koch / Reason left-libertarian I want billionaires to have even more influence. Because they usually support open borders and establishment Democrats.
#BillionairesKnowBest
Oops, forgot to mention abortion! Yeah, American billionaires support abortion almost as enthusiastically as ENB does. Because the lower the US birth rate goes, the easier it is to say "Oh darn, there just aren't enough workers being born. Guess we'll have to import them."
#CheapLaborAboveAll
There are the right sort of billionaire and the wrong sort of billionaire.
There's the mature and globally responsible World Economic Forum friend who supports sensible Democratic Party initiatives, and then there's the crazy, racist pew-pew rocketman who wants people to believe in disinformation.
Justin Amash
@justinamash
As a founder, I came up with the House Freedom Caucus name, logo, and mission statement. It was meant to be a group focused on process, not conservatism—and certainly not nationalism or Trumpism. When Trump and the GOP establishment merged, so did the group—making it irrelevant.
His biggest fear being the caucus a actually did something useful and beneficial. He preferred to have then just complain and name post offices getting nothing done. That's how he kept his job safe. Lool at him now. Basically he wanted them to be the polite mild opposition.
I came up with the House Freedom Caucus name, logo, and mission statement.
He coined it.
Lol.
Justin Amash is Dee? Makes sense.
A Democrat masquerading as a libertarian? Plausible anyway.
"...just complain and [get] nothing done."
Sounds like a libertarian.
Except he used tax dollars to do the bitching, not doing it for free.
It was meant to be a group focused on process, not conservatism—and certainly not nationalism or Trumpism.
Wait, what? Is he really claiming here that the whole point of the Freedom Caucus was just to be the government equivalent of a sports-bar trivia group--get together, shoot the shit, have some laughs--and not actually accomplish or even take a hard stand on actual policies?
There are still some things I liked about Amash's time in office, his transparency regarding the willingness to explain his votes in Congress on social media probably chief among them. But if you're not establishing a caucus for the very specific purpose of effecting and advocating for a political vision of what you believe government should focus on (or not focus on, for that matter), you're just wasting everyone's time. The other caucuses have no qualms whatsoever about forming political blocs to promote their favored policies. Why the fuck does Amash think the Freedom Caucus would have turned out any different?
Basically he wanted them to be the polite mild opposition.
That's certainly what it sounds like. This is total neocon-style "this isn't the hill to die on!" boilerplate that allows the left to continue pulling the Overton window in their direction.
When Trump and the GOP establishment merged, so did the group—making it irrelevant.
Trump ruins yet another something.
President Biden's approval rating has improved slightly from a few months ago.
The more people see of Harris...
In the aftermath of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, it's time for Europe to step up and America to step back...
Europe stepping forward is America stepping forward.
Someone should run for president with that position.
If Germany and Ukraine team up again will they be goose steps?
Yes, backwards and in high heels this time.
Data collected by the electricity regulator @NewYorkISO show that its electricity was replaced by fossil combustion, not renewables & efficiency.
So now you know who is behind nuclear NIMBYism.
Moar greenwashing!
Arizona Attorney General Mark Brnovich's demands for election reform are nonsensical, suggests Yavapai County, Arizona, judge John Napper. "The problem, Napper said, is that Brnovich has failed to explain to anyone—himself included—why the attorney general believes the provisions he wants removed are illegal," reports Tucson.com. "Instead, the judge said, all Brnovich did is demand that [Secretary of State Katie] Hobbs accede to the changes he wants, changes she has so far refused to make."
I dont get the inclusion of this. Is is a biased opinion of a judge who i don't believe is even on control of any suits since these would go through Maricopa County. So the liberal paper in tucson, they are very liberal, found a judge to make a comment and this is worthy of the roundup?
Conclusion first, article follows.
Wrong. Here is the proper sequence:
Ideology
Narrative
Financing
Conclusions
Articles
this is worthy of the roundup?
At least it's a step up from the typical Twitter repost.
2 lawyers have differing opinions is essentially just a Twitter thread.
Nah, it can be interesting. And Napper isn't a bad fella. This is actually a legal disagreement though, and so does not benefit much from the sort of clip show roundup. Also, Napper is a Superior Court Judge and is involved with case.
Here's a slightly more neutral statement of things that I was able to find quickly (Ignore it being the telegraph, it's an AP repost):
https://www.thetelegraph.com/news/article/Judge-mediating-Hobbs-Brnovich-election-rules-17137892.php
So, best I can tell of this:
Napper is presiding over part of this as a Superior Court judge.
Napper thinks there is parts of the AGs argument that is reasonable, and things that are not.
Napper overall thinks that the AGs assertions are not particularly clear, and it's uncertain what issues are being raised specifically
He has requested the AG provide specific documents laying out issues with the various provisions.
A quote:
“What I need from the attorney general first (is) why each of these provisions needs to be struck. That's the starting point,” Napper said. “Some of the things that you say need to be struck, as I sit here right now I don't see why they need to be struck.”
So, this seems like actually pretty simple procedural courtroom issues being raised to politics a bit too much.
Also, Arizona in the news!
Thanks for the clarification. Haven't been following the procedural build up for this case.
No problem. This is actually a huge part with twitter stuff and fast roundups, which is most issues are not that simple. Particularly in very procedural things like law. You don't necessarily have to be an expert to have an opinion, but it really doesn't benefit from fast takes.
My sources in DC say if GOP takes Congress being a woke CEO will mean hours of hearing testimony...
At least if they're focused on woke CEO's they're not devoting time effing the little guy directly in the ass.
They have large staffs. They can do both.
A large staff in a little guy's ass? Now you sound like Jeff.
To be fair, I don't think Jeff actually fucks children. I think he has a shred of morality and conscience that would prevent him from actually fucking children.
I just think he jerks off to the thought of fucking children, which is why he's so eager to define sexual exploitation downward.
Oh screw you. That is a slanderous lie. Why would you even falsely accuse anyone of such a horrible crime like pedophilia?
Part of being a libertarian is standing up for liberty for its own sake, even when it might make one uncomfortable. I don't like that kids are acting like that. I would never condone it for my own kids. But I am also hesitant to call the cops and have anyone thrown in jail over it. Using the power of the state to have parents thrown in a cage merely because we find their parenting decisions "icky" should not be anything that libertarians ought to welcome.
If child sexual exploitation is going to be a crime - which I agree, it ought to be a crime - there should be a strict, well-defined, objective definition of it. Behavior that goes right up to that line but doesn't cross it, despite how tacky or creepy it may be, should not be punished by the state. Use whatever social pressure you want to discourage parents taking kids to events like that, but it shouldn't be punished by the state. This is the same general principle that libertarians routinely adopt for crimes that have a moral dimension to them. The key point to remember is that crimes punishable by the state ought to be ones that violate the NAP, not merely ones that are morally questionable.
He was defending you. As best he could.
1) You are not a libertarian
2) Ok groomer
> 2) Ok groomer
That was mean.
I almost feel bad about how hard I laughed when I read it.
Almost.
You want teachers to teach morality and sex in school, have schools hide mental issues from parents, support child sexualization such as defending the movie Cuties or Jazz Jennings dancing on stage for dollar bills, etc.
Basically here you say it is fine to groom children as long as you don't touch the kid once groomed.
Pretty fucking messed up.
So let's count the number of strawmen in Jesse's post:
You want teachers to teach morality and sex in school
False. #1
have schools hide mental issues from parents
False. #2
support child sexualization such as defending the movie Cuties or Jazz Jennings dancing on stage for dollar bills
False. #3
you say it is fine to groom children as long as you don't touch the kid once groomed.
False. #4
Jeff,
When everyone here sees you defend against what you call "GOP attacks!!!!" and only you deny it, maybe it is you that is wrong.
You have defended each and every one of those things. Full stop.
You can claim that it was you defending "the overreaction from the right", but you are defending against those immoralist things. Full stop.
You denying it is hilarious. It isn't the 90% of people seeing you say and defend things, it is you that should stop with the need to be a contrarian or post modernist. you even denied the latter yesterday despite a summer of arguing 2+2=5. LOL.
Wait, did Lying Jeffy really deny he defended 2+2=5?
He denied being a post modernist despite every form of it on these boards.
No, Jesse, this is your recurring schtick:
Step 1: Something happens
Step 2: Team Red goes apeshit bananas overreacting to that thing
Step 3: I criticize the overreaction
Step 4: Jesse steps and says "You are defending that action!"
Because you are a dishonest weasel.
Your problem is that when the right-wing goes bonkers overreacting to something, you don't think it is bonkers. YOU think it is normal. Because you swim in a world where bonkers overreaction IS the norm.
For example:
support child sexualization such as defending the movie Cuties or Jazz Jennings dancing on stage for dollar bills
I never, not once, defended those actions. I objected to the overreaction from the right that those actions provoked. But to you, calling it "sexual abuse" or demanding that the federal government investigate Hollywood movie studios over the Cuties movie (as Ted Cruz proposed) seems perfectly reasonable and normal. It's not an overreaction to you. That is why you cannot see how bonkers it looks to everyone else.
Hmm, what's the difference between a straw man and a man straw?
It probably is a slanderous lie, but you are definitely not a libertarian.
It's not slander. It's my belief that Jeff masterbates while thinking about having sex with children. Of course, I have no proof that he thinks about having sex with children during his masterbation session, which I also believe occur frequently throughout the day, because who can know the contents of another person's mind when he's masterbating?
Statements he's made on this platform about the acceptability of children dancing in a highly sexualized manner for the entertainment of adults has led me to believe that Jeff likely masterbates while thinking about having sex with children.
And even if he does masterbate while thinking of having sex with children, it's not illegal. Your own mental images of an 11 year old drag kid shaking it to "I'm Just A Girl" aren't child pornography.
I said probably. You may not be wrong.
You are a disgusting slanderous liar.
Statements he's made on this platform about the acceptability of children dancing in a highly sexualized manner
I never once said it was ACCEPTABLE. I simply said that I don't think it should be ILLEGAL. You know this, and you continue to lie about it.
Remember the FBI bragged about using more resources and money for the j6 protests than any other investigation in history.
Those trespassers are a real threat to freedom. If they didn't some asshole could see their example and put his feet on my desk.
I'm assured that it's the companies themselves trying to do that, but I don't know. It's all so tiring and I mostly just sip my high life and stare into the sun these days.
"My sources in DC say if GOP takes Congress being a woke CEO will mean hours of hearing testimony..."
I'm low on sympathy for Woke CEOs. They had no problem testifying before Woke Congress when it resulted in favorable regulations as long as they toe the line. I would not be surprised to see some "woke" CEOs suddenly become very un-woke when the gravy train changes direction.
They should be allowed to funnel money to Congress in secret without ever having to answer for it.
First of all, I find it interesting that "My Sources in DC" is as much specificity as we get. Is this Dem leaders worried that this will happen? Is it some podunk freshman congress critter? The Janitor? Or Mitch McConnel?
Second, can we really be surprised that the government is doing this? For 10 years, the government has dragged private companies in front of committees to discuss their carbon footprints, their volunteer sponsorship, their willingness to de-platform deplorables, and their DEI initiatives. Is it any surprise that literally anything and everything is now in scope for the government?
"My sources in DC" could mean literally anything. Or there could be no "sources in DC" at all, because if you don't name them, nobody can fact check you on it. It's just part of the on-going, vague campaign to try and paint republicans as the enemy of democracy, without having to list any actual ways that republicans are enemies of democracy.
And no, it's not at all surprising that congress would do this. They had hearings over major league baseball, for Christ's sake. The problem is not that republicans might do it, the problem is that they're doing it at all.
"My sources in DC" could mean literally anything. Or there could be no "sources in DC" at all, because if you don't name them, nobody can fact check you on it. It's just part of the on-going, vague campaign to try and paint republicans as the enemy of democracy, without having to list any actual ways that republicans are enemies of democracy.
I see you're not familiar with Mr. Gasparino's work.
I wasn't familiar. Thanks.
Charles Gasparino
@CGasparino
My sources in DC say if GOP takes Congress being a woke CEO will mean hours of hearing testimony— Disney’s clash with Ron DeSantis shows new pushback toward companies speaking out on social issues.
Thank God democrats haven't been pushing for ESGs.
The entire ESG thing is really terrifying. It's the reason CEOs and companies can (and have to) go woke without worrying about the customer. That, and the incestuous regulatory relationship between the government and big business interests. Who cares if your customer wants your woke bullshit, when you can have competition cut off from capital and regulated out of existence?
SEL in schools, ESG in business...
Red Guard playbook
Totally not fascism.
ESG + CDBC will be the end of all freedom and privacy. And usher in full totalitarian control of your every thought, move, purchase, word, and action.
What is your specific criticism of ESG?
Not a lefty.
Lulz
everytime i start to think this guy is genuine, he posts something this ridiculous and i realize he is probably a DNC plant to stir shit up.
What is YOUR specific criticism of ESG?
What is your libertarian defense of ESG? It is not libertarian in any manner. If you ever educated yourself on groups like the Red Guard and other socialist nations you'd understand why ratings like ESGs are problematic, especially when extended to financing systems and government regulatory authorities.
But again, you're a leftist, so you don't care.
I'm not defending ESG, I am having a discussion about it.
Do you think it is even possible to have a discussion on a topic here without having a preset conclusion in mind beforehand?
That it's some woke-ass bullshit? Infesting the investment markets and denying capital to otherwise perfectly worthy companies based on political philosophies? That it's subjective and nebulous and not based on anything?
A few things, I suppose.
One, shareholder investing is very important for the economy and for advancing the world. ESG sometimes makes vague motions towards it being shareholder focused, but on a long term with sustainability. This is a bit of a contradiction usually and it falls apart fairly quickly when they discuss it.
There's also the fact that strong emphasis on social goals tends to really quickly lead to pretty dramatic capture by fringe views. We see this a lot in life. We're seeing it now. That's not healthy for pluralism. Large Index Funds are very, very powerful and their tendency towards trends and topic de jeur can have massive impacts on society and the economy. I am skeptical of that.
Finally, it's not proven to be very effective. There's something where it sometimes does well when massive subsidies hit the industries that they invest in, but largely these aren't super mature or successful industries. This is kind of given up by the basic idea of it, since if they were purely successful industries then the need for ESG as a concept would be supplanted by generic shareholder investment.
I'd have to read more to have a strong opinion, but it has the stink of a certain common-good capitalism idea which almost always leads to a move towards government regulation.
I'll bite.
The first, most glaring problem with ESGs is that they undermine the fiduciary responsibilities of our investment managers.
To be clear: ESG is the effort to turn *Explicitly Political Goals* into metrics by which a company is investible. The term "Sustainable Investing"- like "Sustainable Farming"- is meaningless marketing at best, and downright deceptive at worst. It's entire construction is designed to steal a base and imply that other companies are not "Sustainable"- to ensure that cost-benefit analyses always favor specific political ends. No matter what your belief on Race, LBTGQ..., Unions, or Cheap labor in other countries- assigning a "good" or "bad" score to a business decision is making a political choice. Should a business invest in a developing economy for cheap labor, or should it be a domestic union shop? Should a company hire the best candidate, or a Trans woman? In ESG metrics, there is a right answer here even if that means a developing town doesn't get investment, or a straight white woman doesn't get a career changing job.
The Department of Labor has proposed changing the standards governing Employee Retirement Income Security Act (ERISA) fiduciaries thus enabling them to use the funds of their Private retirement/Benefit plans to invest and perform proxy votes based on ESG ratings.
Do you understand what that means? No longer is the manager of Verizon's pension fund responsible to invest in ways that secure retiree income. No, he can consider Social Justice scores as well. If he likes Unions he can invest in a union shop instead of an At Will shop- even if the latter is more competitive. Government regulations have long favored the centralization of capital in large institutions. But the direct counterbalance to that was the explicit guarantee to me as the investor that my fund manager would be held to STRICT fiduciary guidelines in managing my money.
This effect is compounded by the fact that Verizon (among other companies) *also* needs investment. And now, their ESG rating is also influenced by the investments of their pension fund. So not only can a social justice warrior get control of Verizon's funds and use them to push SJW causes, Verizon is also incentivized to give him that control.
As usual, people are free to invest religiously as they choose. The problem, as usual, is that government is involved. Not only is the government changing the statutorily defined responsibility of fiduciaries, In 2019, almost 25% of flow into Stocks and Bonds was contingent on ESG ratings. That is because bloated public pension funds are increasingly required to use ESG scores.
Thus, the use of ESGs is a strong arm way for political activists and governments to force companies to favor specific political choices in their business decisions, when market choices would have tended against it in the past.
Lastly, and most disturbingly, this is the foundation for a system whereby the government sidesteps prohibitions on political viewpoint discrimination. Just as a hypothetical, the government cannot go to a CEO and say "I don't like your speech about Trans Rights, therefore we will be pulling investments." It is even likely they cannot say, "We will pull investments unless you hire X diverse candidates". But by cloaking these same political goals behind ESG ratings, they are able to use their vast investment funds as clubs with which to beat companies into very specific political ends.
It isn't worth it. Jeff won't read this, register it, and later will claim he never asked why ESGs were bad while continuing to defend them.
It is noteworthy that after asking for clarification, and getting it from several people, he has no response but has posted numerous replies since then in his defense of the Ministry of Truth.
Oh give me a break. Your response was very long, and I work for a living.
All of this, but also, ESG metrics are entirely subjective because politics is entirely subjective. It removes objective, quantifiable criteria and replaces it with something that can't fully be quantified. There's not even agreement within the ESG rating field on how ESG metrics should be rated.
Well, sure, but Chemjeff's counter point was going to be "Well so what if they are subjective. People should be allowed to do invest in whatever they want. If they want to invest in silly things, they should be allowed to do it."
And that isn't wrong in a free market. But what makes them evil is that the government is giving these subjective, political metrics a special status through special regulation of fiduciaries and through the heavy hand of their own investment portfolios.
See below response from Village Idiot Jeff. You nailed it.
First, thanks for the very long and thorough response.
Nobody in the private sector is being forced by government to invest in instruments that have particular ESG ratings, are they? I didn't get that impression from your response. If that is the case, then I am not sure how government is to blame. If there are a lot of individuals who voluntarily choose to invest based on ESG ratings, they ought to be free to do so.
If he likes Unions he can invest in a union shop instead of an At Will shop- even if the latter is more competitive.
How is this different than any individual taking into consideration moral and ethical concerns when making financial decisions? For example, right now there are a lot of conservatives upset with Disney and choosing to boycott them. They are choosing to go to, say, Dollyworld, instead of Disney World, even if Disney World would be the 'better experience'. They're not making decisions based on amoral cost/benefit analyses alone, WHICH IS TOTALLY FINE. Same deal goes for liberals boycotting Trump Hotels. We would not advocate forcing conservatives to go to Disney World, or liberals to go to a Trump Hotel, even if those were the most "rational" decisions at the time, would we? I don't see why it ought to be different with these ESG ratings.
Again I am not defending the specific rating itself. I can easily imagine a case where the rating is set up in a manner I would regard as ludicrous. But as long as government doesn't force the private sector to use these ratings, then it's not really my call to decide whether someone ought to use an ESG rating, or some other rating, to make an investment decision.
Not only is the government changing the statutorily defined responsibility of fiduciaries
Well, let's pause for a moment and imagine we were in Libertopia. In Libertopia, would there even *be* a "statutorily defined responsibility of fiduciaries"? If so, what would it look like?
In 2019, almost 25% of flow into Stocks and Bonds was contingent on ESG ratings. That is because bloated public pension funds are increasingly required to use ESG scores.
Well, this seems to be a problem not with the ESG rating itself, but the requirement to use a specific rating for these investments. THAT'S the problem.
“Well, let's pause for a moment and imagine we were in Libertopia. In Libertopia, would there even *be* a "statutorily defined responsibility of fiduciaries"? If so, what would it look like?”
Tell me you don’t understand how investment funds work without telling me you don’t know how investment funds work.
"How is this different than any individual taking into consideration moral and ethical concerns when making financial decisions? For example, right now there are a lot of conservatives upset with Disney and choosing to boycott them."
The difference is that a manager of funds would be (rightly) sued for using political preferences to manage other peoples' funds. That is a breach of fiduciary duties. Before we go on here, I want you to understand two things:
1) Whether we like it or not, Government regulations virtually demand that funds be held in large, custodial accounts. Just one
of countless examples is that tax laws and federal laws incentivize large companies to hold employee's money in accounts managed by that corporation- for 401(k)s (yes even your Vanguard 401(k) is held in trust by the corporation), Pensions, Medical Insurance, and many other benefits. While I am happy to talk about Libertopia what-ifs, we don't live in Libertopia, and in return for the government concentrating our money in these large funds, we have STRICT regulations on the fiduciary duties of fund managers.
2) The responsibilities of a Fiduciary have roots in common law, and even in Libertopia it is not hard to envision a system where a person's responsibility to manage money is equally clear. Managers of a company, of money, or an estate are ethically and contractually bound to put the asset's health at risk and not use their position to chase personal goals- whether those goals are selfish or "virtuous".
What is happening here is the government is changing the long, and well understood meaning of a Fiduciary to say that they can choose to invest on political basis, like environmental impact or diversity quotas. Again, under these new rules if a conservative didn't like Disney's speech he would STILL be terminated and liable for damages for pulling investments from Disney based on its agitating for LGBTQ rights. But under these new rules, he WOULD be allowed to divest a company that doesn't have good LGBTQ metrics.
"Well, this seems to be a problem not with the ESG rating itself, but the requirement to use a specific rating for these investments. THAT'S the problem."
No. The rating is the problem. By design they pretend that specific economic decisions can be "right or wrong" with broad metrics. They are, by their very construction WRONG. If you tell me that a higher diversity count is always better than a lower one, you are telling me a business should choose a wealthy black son of doctors for an executive position rather than a more qualified white, widower father. It is morally dubious. It is practically bad (because it leads companies and their governors to focus on non economic concerns) and when the government gets involved it is a recipe for disaster.
By design they pretend that specific economic decisions can be "right or wrong" with broad metrics.
But that describes EVERY rating system, not just ESG. They all take metrics and make judgments based on those metrics. Surely ESG is not the only way to rate investments? I imagine there is a large number of rating schemes, some better than others. If that is the case, then the problem really is the preference given to this one rating scheme, not the rating scheme itself.
1) Whether we like it or not, Government regulations virtually demand that funds be held in large, custodial accounts.
Well it seems like this is the real problem here. If all of the money wasn't so commingled, then different groups could decide to invest their money in different ways based on whatever fiduciary standards was most amenable to the group.
This is why discussing these things with you is so frustrating. If I explain how Government coercion is causing a bad rating system to do evil, you say, "Well government is your problem, not ESGs". If I explain how the ESG itself is a bad rating- that it focuses on dubious social justice causes over good business- you say, "Well good or bad, shouldn't people be allowed to do what they want?"
You have basically created a framework by which no rating system could be bad. By your construction, we should always blame the government (except when evil parents try to change their school's curriculum- then it is just them being racist bigots). If tomorrow Florida's pension funds started voting for board members on companies that support Pro Life causes, that would be a-ok?
Again:
1) Ethically speaking SJW nonsense has no place in business. The metrics themselves are ethically dubious- creating scenarios where a business is compelled to hire the rich Black son of wealthy doctors, instead of a more qualified, white widower father. That is wrong.
2) Practically speaking, it is also a bad idea. Businesses that spend time catering to Unions, and a certain political party will often hurt themselves economically. This is also true of companies that make their energy costs more expensive, and who force their suppliers to also increase energy costs (ultimately to their detriment).
3) A fiduciary's duty is to manage a person's money wisely, not based on their political preferences. This is common law. If you cannot draw a reasonable line between the rationale of your decision and a risk to the asset under your management, you are breaching the trust of your client. This isn't just law, it is basic ethics. The government, by fiat, is exempting people who invest money according to a very narrow, specific set of political preferences. If you think abortion is wrong, sorry, that isn't an acceptable form of ESG. If you think freedom of expression is important, sorry, you can't divest from Facebook. But if you think LBGTQ+++ people in power is important, then the government is letting you invest OTHER PEOPLES' MONEY on this narrow cause.
4) Not only that, but Government largesse is giving undue weight to these causes, because the government is one of the largest investors in the world. I really wonder if you would be so sanguine if Georgia decided to use the Trump Approval Rating System as a valid rating system for their investments.
You have basically created a framework by which no rating system could be bad.
Well yeah, because "good" and "bad" are in the eye of the beholder. OBVIOUSLY some people think the ESG rating system is "good" otherwise they wouldn't be using it. People ought to use whatever rating system they wish to pick their investments. Isn't that the whole idea behind choice?
Ethically speaking SJW nonsense has no place in business.
I am totally willing to accept that for your business, you would find "SJW nonsense" to be unethical. But other people who run other businesses disagree. There doesn't have to be a one-size-fits-all solution here.
A fiduciary's duty is to manage a person's money wisely, not based on their political preferences.
If a fiduciary is managing other people's money, and if the fiduciary doesn't have direct knowledge of the broad preferences of how his/her clients want their money invested, then sure.
I really wonder if you would be so sanguine if Georgia decided to use the Trump Approval Rating System as a valid rating system for their investments.
If the state of Georgia did it? No. If a private individual wanted to do it? Sure! If a bunch of private individuals decided to hire a trustee on their behalf with specific instructions to use the Trump Approval Rating System to choose their investments? Sure, go ahead! The problem in this case is that the state is acting like an investor, not that the rating system exists.
"Well yeah, because "good" and "bad" are in the eye of the beholder."
Then why are you playing these coy, "What's wrong with ESGs"? If your answer was always going to be, "I don't care what your problem is with ESGs" you should have said so at the beginning. This is trolling Chemjeff.
"There doesn't have to be a one-size-fits-all solution here."
Then get to work bringing libertopia. Until then I will be fighting the systemic institution of an unworkable, ethically-undermining, backdoor attempt by social activists and their government enablers to destroy capitalism. Because capitalism is an objectively good thing for the world, and I want it preserved.
Let's break this down one last time:
If you came to me in Libertopia and asked, "Should investors adopt ESGs?" I would say that while people are free to make the decision they want with their money, the mass adoption of ESGs would be both pragmatically bad and ethically bad for our free society- similar to what I would say if all the tech platforms in libertopia started going against free expression.
It is bad pragmatically because these metrics aren't a good measure of corporate or social success. Equity (equality of outcomes) is incompatible with a free society where people are free to reach whatever outcome they desire. It is deliberately designed to subvert price signalling. That is the entire reason these ESGs were created- activists didn't like that companies pursuing causes they disliked could access capital at the same prices as companies they liked. They disagreed with the answer that millions of people arrived at to integrate the price of a stock. And so a couple experts came up with "something better"....Pragmatically, that has not tended to work.
Ethically I would point out that if everyone did ESGs, society would not be more moral or ethical. You would find businesses colluding to keep the prices of energy high (by refusing to invest in life saving fossil fuels) to the detriment of the poor and would see worthy candidates shunned from hiring merely because they are the "wrong" gender, sexual preference, race, etc. I would not "Mandate" that ESGs be banned, but I would do anything within my freedoms of association and expression to limit the damage being done by ESGs- just as I would do if a Socialist were trying to take over a trade association or my local private school where my kids attended.
If in libertopia, I were the leader (or co-leader) of an organization that was considering ESG, I would advocate against its adoption for the same reasons. Businesses are most effective driving business values, and producing excess wealth that investors, employees and others can use towards charitable purposes of their choice. Specific to ESGs, I don't see any thing ethical in raising the price of my inputs so much that the poor cannot pay for my products- and yet that is what most "green" ESG ratings favor. I have ethical and practical problems with pretty much every ESG out there because pretty much every one of them was designed to COUNTER free market outcomes under socialist ideals.
And of course, we don't live in libertopia, we live in America, where these ESGs are being developed by socialist activists and their enablers in government. Maxine Waters, Bernie Sanders, and AOC are all pushing various forms of ESG legislation. That alone tells you that they are not broadly popular to the population for various reasons, and should lead us to question why some of the worst players in government feel the need to shove them down our throats.
LOL.
Wow Jeff. Please stop. My sides hurt. You whine above about people thinking you aren't a post modernist, then you go and ask what is wrong with ESG.
Never. Change.
This is what Investopedia has to say on ESG:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/environmental-social-and-governance-esg-criteria.asp
Environmental, social, and governance (ESG) criteria are a set of standards for a company’s operations that socially conscious investors use to screen potential investments. Environmental criteria consider how a company performs as a steward of nature. Social criteria examine how it manages relationships with employees, suppliers, customers, and the communities where it operates. Governance deals with a company’s leadership, executive pay, audits, internal controls, and shareholder rights.
Doesn't sound downright evil to me. I might disagree with the specifics of how these criteria are applied in specific cases, but I don't think the idea itself is terrible.
Don't give a shit what investopedia says in summary, since anyone can write anything. What are the actual criteria? How do you tabulate this?
He also doesn't this a disinformation governance board run by the same agency that runs the no-fly list is a big deal. That should tell you all you need to know about how much his judgement is worth.
He was claiming yesterday he never defended against attacks on the Ministry of Disinformation board. LOL.
That's because I didn't. Not surprising you would say that, since you *habitually* stuff false arguments into other people's mouths.
Soldiermedic and you never had a conversation? Interesting.
Do you believe everyone is just an idiot?
In my conversation with soldiermedic, I never defended the Disinformation Governance Board. In fact I said it was a bad idea. What I did do, and what I continue to do, is to criticize the over-the-top hysterical right-wing reaction to it, that it is MINISTRY OF TRUTH, that it will lead to people being dragged outside by the FBI at 3am and being sent to jail for nothing more than posting a shitty meme on social media.
But in your tribal mind, "objecting to the overreaction to the board" is the same as "defending the board". Plus you have a habit of stuffing arguments into people's mouths.
If you think it’s a bad idea, why are you so concerned with the degree of concern by people that agree with you? That makes no damn sense. What does make sense is you’re an idiot, and after being exposed, you’re being dishonest to cover it up.
Jesse, let me ask you directly.
Do you think *any* criticism of this board is fair game?
If a commenter said "this board is the literal embodiment of Nazi fascism in America", would you agree with it?
Why did you choose a one paragraph summary instead of actually a) learning what an ESG is b) reading a criticism of ESG c) learn how it changes investment strategies of money managers, pension holders, etc and d) favors political decisions in business planning instead of simply economic ones?
It is a social contagion. It has been using in many socialist countries in one for of another. China being a glaring example.
I think there are two primary reasons for Jeff's failure here:
A. ESG-critical articles don't tend to come up in the first several hits. I had to specifically search for ESG criticsisms to find anything critical, and even then, it wasn't articles critical of ESGs themselves, but critical of the systems for calculating ESGs, or how ESG investing wasn't working to improve society. Actually finding an article about why ESGs are bad took me a while. Jeff's the kind of guy that, if it isn't in the top 5 search results, it doesn't exist in his mind. And forget about using different search terms. That's a lot of work.
B. That's Jeff's schtick. He presents a textbook definition of something, without analysis, and says, "That doesn't sound like a big deal," so he can present himself as reasonable, while everyone else is just an QAnon conspiracy theorist.
He's part of the segment of the left that's currently trying to downplay the extremism of leftist policies and positions, while casting conservative opposition as right-wing extremism.
I can tell I really pissed you off, since every one of your comments about me has been petty insults.
It's a reasonable starting point for a discussion.
I'm neither pro-ESG nor anti-ESG. I'm simply trying to understand what they are and have a discussion on the matter.
Why do you put it on the posters here to educate yourself? Do it your fucking self.
Read Overt above if you haven't. I think he nails it. These things sound nice, but there is no way they won't be used to force a particular political point of view. If various government entities didn't have so much influence and participation in the markets, this might not be such a terrible thing. But that is not the world we live in.
The purpose of 'investment' is to make money, not do woke bullshit that takes away from my investment return.
Well, one might argue that the purpose of an investment is in the eye of the investor.
What is your specific problem with the Florida Parental Rights Law?
You can't read children the story of sleeping beauty according to him.
Well that was brutal.
"...and certainly not nationalism or Trumpism."
But he's all for promoting TDS.
"The reason we can only say "up to 3,394,053" people and not the exact total is because the number of U.S.-person queries don't correspond directly to the number of the people."
So if half of these FBI searches targeted Trump, and the rest targeted Trump associates, then all is good, right?
"April 30 marks the one-year anniversary of New York’s premature closure of the #IndianPoint nuclear plant. Data collected by the electricity regulator @NewYorkISO show that its electricity was replaced by fossil combustion, not renewables & efficiency."
And here Tony promised unicorn farts would solve all the problems!
Wish harder!
I wonder what a plastic fart smells like?
"Waste plastic broken down not in centuries but in days by an AI-engineered enzyme:
...the April 27 issue of Nature, they report on an enzyme they developed called FAST-PETase. Designed with the help of artificial intelligence, it degrades untreated postconsumer PET not in centuries, but in days. And this can be done at temperatures of 50°C and below, where many types of bacteria can thrive."
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/1/2094913/-Waste-plastic-broken-down-not-in-centuries-but-in-days-by-an-AI-engineered-enzyme
We need more man made viruses and life forms. Been working out pretty well so far.
Been working pretty good for food crops.
Recycling =/= fake energy
Is Tony even around anymore? I haven't seen him post since I've been hanging around again.
Joe Frauday replaced him?
Same person.
No chance, there is only one tony. His bitterness and hatred are vile, but genuine.
Joe Friday works for the government. Nobody sucks top men cock like joe.
He pops up from time to time, usually late at night and on weekends to gum up dying threads. His hysteria is on overload at this point.
Pretty sure that's an alcohol problem.
Does that make him Sarc? Sarc has been surprisingly coherent part of the time lately, but was back to Wino Sarc the other day.
Tony's been mostly MIA, as has turd, so the intelligence level has measurably improved.
Now if we could get Joe Asshole to take a powder, we'd be far better off.
Yes, it pops up on or around fed paydays, and/or if there is a story that aligns w/ DNC talking points. It hasn't changed much, still a smug jackass, still posts bs that is easily disproved. Still claims that whatever it has said is not what it said.
repeated from the weekend ...
video:
The reality is more like:
These people are willfully ignorant, and should be viciously mocked from the moment they open their mouths. They are going to keep spout this nonsense until billions of people starve, and then they will just say "Well, you should have started organic farming sooner". Fook them (thanks perlmonger), and shout down anyone stupid enough to buy this nonsense.
So, if we all stop eating meat and switch to bugs and soy, where is the manure going to come from?
Samantha Powers doesn't care if billions of people starve. She and everyone like her will not be the ones who starve. She'll always have enough food. The people who starve will be the poors, and anyone who doesn't pledge fealty to the Party.
It worked for Mao.
Mao actually wished he could reduce the population more, but when the famine hit the resources were most definitely deflected away from places where the local officials were not sufficiently compliant to Mao and the party. Tens of millions (estimates between 20 and 45 million) in the great leap forward.
Because politicizing agriculture based on dogmatic ideology always goes well like that.
I am all for crop rotation and natural composting - it's low impact, maintains the land and uses resources otherwise wasted.
But it cannot replace fertilizer. Not only the energy deficit, but the time to production makes it unfeasible to supplant the current production style.
Now, personal gardens in every household and two chickens to dispose of scraps and we are talking liberty.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/05/sri-lanka-organic-farming-crisis/
Yes. "organic farming" is one of those things that is so stupid only an intellectual could believe in it.
It always feels so arbitrarily defined too. I rarely feel like people can explain to me what organic farming actually is. It does have a somewhat strict definition, but it's a convoluted one that isn't really how a lot of people hype about it describe it.
That said, folks can do whatever they want. Doesn't break my heart.
I rarely feel like people can explain to me what organic farming actually is.
30 years ago it was "farming without pesticides or growth hormones."
Then it got regulated, and now it means "your poisons ultimately come from plants."
Yup. I have a friend who runs an organic farm. They buy commercial fertilizers and spray pesticides and all that. Just using chemicals that aren't synthetically produced.
Yeah, I have a compost pile that I use to grow tomatoes and peppers. I still need to go to the grocery store to buy vegetables.
Nice. I've been attempting that recently. So far, eh, not going great but I'm learning. I did plant one (1) zucchini plant that has now grown so large it is killing my other plants and sometimes threatens me with a gun.
Pretty sure everybody, at one time or another, planted a zucchini plant and ended up ripping it oout before it took over the neighborhood.
Plus, we all resorted to leaving the zucchinis on the neighbors porches in the dead of night to get rid of the things.
The tragic thing is I actually want zucchini. I love it and other squash. I just don't like that I apparently have to plant it on its own acre and feed it blood like Audrey II just to keep it from killing my neighbors.
Yeah you have to give zucchini a lot of room to spread.
Just following in the long line of socialism-induced famines.
Imagine a Hank Kimball type central planning of crops. That is what she wants.
And Mr. Haney as the official spokesmouth, with Arnold "The Pig" Ziffel as mascot and supplier. And Lisa serving "Hots Cakes" to the media talking heads. And, of course, Mr. Drucker is carted off and shot as a "Kulak Wrecker Saboteur!" 🙂
Hey, these Green visionaries are just expediting our return to the land, where almost all American families will spend 18 hours a day scratching in the dirt to produce subsistence crops. Why, its almost Jeffesonian.
Especially the part where the government takes 50% of whatever you scratch out. They can't be expected to scratch dirt for themselves. They're VERY IMPORTANT EXPERTS.
That's exactly it. They long for the days of feudalism when the aristocrats were privileged and the serfs knew their place.
when people are to busy putting food on their tables they don't have time to protest and it really helps when they don't have gas to get to DC. only problem is you can't let them stare to much or they will do more than protest. its a fine line
Have they completely forgotten that in the early-mid 20th century mass food shortages and starvation was actually a legitimate concern? And why that didn't end up happening? Or do they think that the Green Revolution is some kind of environmentalist campaign?
They haven’t forgotten. It’s their goal.
That Irish banshee knows as little about farming as she does about foreign policy.
I will point out, the urban centers will starve first, so there's a silver lining in every cloud.
"With a 42 percent approval rating overall, Biden gets low marks on his handling of the economy and inflation and Republicans are significantly more trusted than Democrats on both measures,"
In an unrelated story, the democrats create the Ministry of Truth.
Must close the truth gap!
Alternative comment: cue Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men.
Ministry of truth will tell us what the true approval rating is just like inflation is good for us since we are clearly doing well since we are spending more
“Inflation is profit”, said an idiot here.
"Governments aren't the only entities that can expand access to contraception and abortion."
FAKE NEWS! I am very disappointed that our new Ministry of Truth allowed this seditious statement.
Of course, only government can provide abortion resources, along with education, energy, food, and infotainment. And, as OBL has long reminded us, government plays a leading role in providing cheap labor.
"Trump election probe in Georgia to seat special grand jury"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-election-probe-in-georgia-to-seat-special-grand-jury/ar-AAWK4kD?ocid=uxbndlbing
And if they can't find anything, they'll appoint an extra-special grand jury!
Dammit, there's gotta be something somewhere!
Walls are closing in.
I really don't like this. Every grand jury is special, and pretending otherwise is offensive.
Grand Jury’s lives matter!
Ukraine....why are we getting increasingly entangled in Ukraine?
When did Ukraine become an American interest to the point where we are getting involved? Utter insanity.
"When did Ukraine become an American interest to the point where we are getting involved?"
When BBB got shut down, inflation continued to spiral out of control, gas prices kept going up, and Biden's approval rating kept dropping.
Also, some people have been using Ukraine as a giant money laundering operation for decades and we can't have that falling into Putin's hands.
Also, some people have been using Ukraine as a giant money laundering operation for decades and we can't have that falling into Putin's hands.
The real reason.
^
it would be funny if Putin took over Ukraine and had Zelenski come out publicly showing the corruption between himself and Biden and several others on both side of teh political isle. of course the media would call it disinformation but what else would you expect
That kind of already happened with the bio labs.
When the democrat and Atlantic council money laundering and payment machine was threatened.
The NPCs were told by the screen its time to support Ukraine and forget about Afghanistan and so now they "stand with Ukraine" and the Afghanis can starve for all they care.
you somewhat joke, but this is basically exactly what happened.
Last week they were happy to be out of Afghanistan and learned a valuable lesson, and also COVID despite not being dangerous almost at all (in reality) was the worst bad thing in the world. On a dime, they turned to not thinking about COVID at all, and fuck everything that happened in Afghanistan we are at war with Eurasia damnit!
All hail the mighty screen
Why was pelosi there? As speaker of the house, her role is meeting foreign leaders? I call horseshit, something is rotten in Denmark, that harridan pushing the proxy war served some purpose, but it did not serve the interest of the US.
"With a 42 percent approval rating overall, Biden gets low marks on his handling of the economy and inflation and Republicans are significantly more trusted than Democrats on both measures," reports The Washington Post.
Here's a crazy idea. Instead of voting for people, could we vote directly for issues? A ballot could allow us to prioritize issues, and favor (or reject) proposed strategies and solutions. Congress would then be more like a bunch of clerks working out how to implement voters' preferences.
So...a direct democracy? No thanks.
Yeah... direct democracy sucks.
Then we wouldn't be focusing on the white supremecy problem.
MOAR FREE STUFF!
This is a very very bad idea. Democracy via corrupt reps is bad enough. imagine the "cash me outside" girl voting on each bill. No thanks.
"imagine the "cash me outside" girl voting on each bill. No thanks."
At this rate she might get elected.
I mean, we have AOC in there, she cant be too many brain cells away from cash me ouside girl IMO
She’s more successful in the private sector than AOC was.
What can Californians tell us about California's ballot initiatives/referendums? My impression is that they're considerably more sane than California's elected government, but that's only based on the ones I hear about.
they're considerably more sane than California's elected government
Yes, but that's a super low bar.
Some of the best things we have, like Prop 13 and legal MJ is because of the referendum process, but you get some pretty Orwellian ones, too.
On the whole I think the referendum process is a good thing - like the recall process, it arose in the era when the CA government was essentially owned by the railroads, and these were workarounds against the unbeatable political machine that controlled the elected offices.
It leads to some weird bills coming up to vote, many of them quite awful, but - again - this must be compared to the alternative, the CA Legislature, which has been peopled by morons and crazy people my whole life.
Someone care to tell us why Pelosi is now conducting foreign relations?
"Pelosi meets with Poland's president after surprise Kyiv visit"
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pelosi-poland-president-duda-ukraine-visit-kyiv
That is not a good sign = Speaker going to Ukraine to meet with Zelensky
She was thinking of defecting?
We can only hope.
Maybe Abbott can answer that question?
"Abbott's Political Antics Costing Texas a Rail Line and Billions more."
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/5/2/2095277/-Abbott-s-Political-Antics-Costing-Texas-a-Rail-Line-and-Billions-more
Missing out on some 1800’s technology.
Swing and a miss , dude.
And that has to do with Pelosi's antics only in the mind of a steaming pile of lefty shit.
Because the Logan act doesn't apply to Democrats?
Because Nan's got money in Ukraine?
ENB seems pretty salty about ending corporate welfare for massive multi-national corporations. Strange take for a supposedly libertarian website.
That's the new leftism: demanding welfare for the largest corporations on earth.
As long as they support illegal immigration, butt sex, abortions and grooming children. Oh, and weed.
Butt sex is really important.
I've never actually done it, but I used to mention it now and again to an old girlfriend. After I would she'd spend a lot more time telling me my junk was "too big", so that was a great ego booster.
Since this is the first Monday in May, I thought I would present a challenge for the month of May that can help improve the state of our discourse.
For the month of May, let's resolve to not read any news articles that have as their sole purpose to ridicule, condemn, and/or generate outrage over either Team Red or Team Blue. These types of articles don't contribute anything constructive to the discourse. Their sole purpose is clickbait to generate outrage and foment hatred and division. If we want an improved public discourse, that focuses on ideas and policies and ideology rather than tribal nonsense, we can begin that process by changing ourselves and our own reading habits. Who knows, maybe by the end of the month we can routinely have a much more constructive dialogue in these forums if our own thoughts are focused more towards ideas and principles rather than the latest tribal outrage of the day.
So, who is in?
Fuck Joe Biden
I'm serious. Are you more interested in articles that promote ideas and generate thought, or are you more interested in articles that mock Team Red/Team Blue? If we want a better discourse, we first have to change ourselves.
Nobody wants to discuss anything with you. Try to accept that.
Well, you seem to want to.
What is the harm in trying this challenge?
Because an “individualist” shouldn’t be trying to get everyone to do the same thing.
This individualist is proposing a voluntary challenge, without coercion or force, that I believe would improve the state of our discourse. My take on individualism is to uphold the liberty of individuals making free choices. It does not mean believing in any sort of false moral equivalence of those choices, however. You are free to refuse. But at least keep an open mind about it.
What are you gonna read, Dr Suess?
Whoops, wait….. Snow White? Damn.
He only reads Snow White to other people’s children.
Things must be really bad for the Democrats. Jeff is going full "hey pox on both houses".
This isn't about electoral politics. It is about improving the state of our discourse.
False. It's about damage control and you know it. The Democrats are looking absolutely horrible and are likely going to lose their asses. People vote their wallets, and recent Democrat policies are making life very painful for the average voter. You and other shills are trying to soften the blow with your typical "both sides arguments", whataboutism, and gaslighting. I don't think its working too well this time.
Whatever man. I'm not interested in getting either Democrats or Republicans elected. I proposed an idea that I believe would improve the state of our rotten discourse. If you don't want to participate, that's fine.
Your proposal is a deliberate attempt at obfuscation.
If you choose to use your paranoid brain to read sinister motives into my idea, then that is your choice. I am telling you what the plain straightforward rationale is for this idea - it is to try to uplift the discourse.
Nothing you post is plain, straightforward, or rationale. And I wouldn't describe your motives as sinister either. That implies that you are dangerous.
You are free to believe what you like.
And you are free to act butthurt all you like. Just keep in mind that the majority of people are no longer buying the shit you're selling.
I'd rather gouge my eyes out with my johnson.
Why? What is the harm in trying this challenge?
The irony here is that you are no where near as intelligent as you are trying to be modest about.
Because unlike you, I don't think the problem is the hardening of discourse, nor the lack of scientific education, nor the lack of deference to teachers, nor demagogues, nor the lack of respect for elites or their institutions.
These are all positions you're defended here. Therefore there is no upside to this mental exercise. Follow your own rule and leave for a month.
So what do you think is "the problem"?
That you think there is one.
Americans are rude, crude, rugged individuals. Much like the rest of humanity, we chose division.
As I've always held: "Cussedness Is Our Strength!" 🙂
Dishonesty.
Nobody is in because people don't come here for civil discourse. They come here to signal to their tribe by saying "Fuck Joe Biden! Fuck Joe Biden! Fuck Joe Biden! " and waging personal attacks on anyone who doesn't repeat their religious chant.
A lot of people do, yes. And everyone does that from time to time, myself included. But we can strive to do better and become the change we want to see.
It is only a one month challenge. How hard could it be?
I don't think this crowd could do it for an hour, let alone a month.
You two are beyond parody.
How many accounts do you create a week?
This is the same account I've had for maybe 15 - 20 years. What's your point?
I don't believe you.
I don't care.
I know you're dumb sarc, but Tulpas tell is a first and last name that sounds odd.
And some people mute others to stay within their own bubble, and refuse to post the muted list.
SHOW US THE LIST SARC!
What's the line of this though? A lot of ridicule is justified. Or, like, most reasonably honest rhetoric about things like the new disinformation czar stuff should be condemnation.
It's up to each individual to decide of course whether a particular article qualifies. But the spirit of the idea is not to read articles that don't contribute anything meaningful to the discussion, and serve only as clickbait to generate outrage. Where you draw the line is up to you.
Sure then. I already do that to my satisfaction.
You fucking off would improve the discourse.
Seconded.
I like Jeff. He can be obtuse, as most of us can be, but he's at least different. It's good to have arguments.
Thanks. Like everyone sometimes my emotions get the better of me, but I try to at least provide something productive to the conversation. I am glad you are back, by the way.
Reasoned argument would be fine if he wasn't so dishonest. My problem with Jeff, Sarcasmic, et al, is that they constantly complain about the very behavior they are engaging in. But even more important is that they do it deliberately.
My problem with Jeff, Sarcasmic, et al, is that they constantly complain about the very behavior they are engaging in.
Such as?
Case in point.
You are free to use the mute button.
I’m not concerned with the discourse. I’m just informing you of the best way to improve it.
.. let's resolve to not read any news articles that have as their sole purpose to ridicule, condemn, and/or generate outrage over either Team Red or Team Blue.
You have to read them to know what’s in them, dummy.
One can usually tell by the headline, or by the first paragraph, what kind of article it is going to be.
“Let’s judge books by the cover”
Idiot Jeff
Ah, so once we already get the gist of an article, ignore the rest?
Good plan, Jeff. Let us know how that works out.
sorry to say Chem but there is nothing in life that is not political
Oh that's not true. Most of social media in fact is not used for politics.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/04/70-of-u-s-social-media-users-never-or-rarely-post-or-share-about-political-social-issues/
Only 9% of adult social media users say they often post or share things about political or social issues on social media, according to newly released results from a Pew Research Center survey of U.S. adults conducted Sept. 8-13, 2020. Some 70% of social media users say they never (40%) or rarely (30%) do so.
Look at cat videos and then come here for “better discourse”.
And get really stoned first.
"So, who is in?"
In for what? As near as I can tell, you have told us to judge the intent of an article writer as to what their "sole purpose" was.
How exactly are we going to decide that? Color me skeptical but I do get the sense that you and I will agree on which article is fomenting outrage, vs pointing out something that is truly outrageous.
That's fine. Enforcement is on the honor system anyway. The idea is to resist the urge to read articles that add nothing to the conversation and only serve to stoke outrage and division.
The idea is to resist the urge to read articles that add nothing to the conversation and only serve to stoke outrage and division.
So ignoring your posts would qualify.
This is why I don't read anything on Yahoo, MSN or the like. Nothing but Leftist, click-bait BULL capital S with a HIT.
“Just when you thought Congressional hearings couldn't get any dumber…”
How far will Reason reach to attack Republicans before the midterms? Well we’re still 6 months out and they’re using things that haven’t happened yet.
It is tough working at Reason right now. Democrats and the left keep doing things that force reason to defend things like corporate welfare or act like a federal government ministry of truth is bad but really no big deal.
They have already taken the stand that it's bad because when the Republicans gain power they will abuse it
How far will Reason reach to attack Republicans before the midterms?
As far as it takes.
Well we’re still 6 months out and they’re using things that haven’t happened yet.
Can you blame them? How else can they deflect from the Biden regime unilaterally creating a ministry of truth?
the FBI used its Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) powers to search the communications of up to 3,394,053 Americans without a warrant.
Hey, if you have nothing to hide...you probably have nothing worth showing.
in its first years of operation showed a pattern of flagging a disproportionate number of Black children for a "mandatory" neglect investigation, when compared with white children.
Is it possible there's something else that just happens to correlate with skin color that is causing this disparity? What exactly does "disproportionate" mean in this context?
Shush. Mentioning correlation to children without fathers in the home is racist.
Skin color is the most important thing
An algorithm used by social workers to decide which families should be investigated for child neglect is raising concerns,
JFC, we really are moving straight to the dystopia all the sci-fi writers warned us about.
A questionable algorithm can sic state social workers on families.
Here's the ass clown responsible for it.
^Ha
I can't find the article now, but it said that the
Disinformation Governance BoardMinistry of Truth was actually started under Trump to investigate Russiagate. Now I can't find it. I would have thought it would be front and center news to deflect blame from Biden.Maybe you dreamed it.
There it is.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/white-house/dhs-disinformation-board-is-continuation-of-trump-effort-white-house-says
The Mouth of Sauron could be lying, but it should be easy enough for someone who gives a shit to verify.
You already broke Jeffy’s new rule.
Go back to bed. The adults are talking.
Like your comment below?
So I’m off the mute list?
Yes, Brandon was forced to finish it! Just ask corn pop how that turns out.
Jen Paski said that in a press conference but offered no evidence for it being true and no one has found what she was talking about or how this could be true. So, it is just a daily talking point for online trolls.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/robert-spencer/2022/04/30/heres-your-disinformation-now-psaki-is-claiming-that-trump-started-bidens-thought-police-board-n1594156
If Jen Psaki opens her mouth you know she's lying.
She would sound a lot better with my balls bouncing off her chin.
Ideas!
Adults are talking!
Gross. She nasty.
I can 100% believe that the swamp set this up during Trump's administration and hasn't told anybody about it (inc. Trump) until now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybersecurity_and_Infrastructure_Security_Agency
The Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) is a United States federal agency, an operational component under Department of Homeland Security (DHS) oversight.[4] Its activities are a continuation of the National Protection and Programs Directorate (NPPD). CISA was established on November 16, 2018 when President Donald Trump signed into law the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency Act of 2018.
Only Jeff would link to a completely different program as proof that this one started under Trump.
It's an extension of the same program. That is where DHS gets the authority to do something about "misinformation" in the first place.
What is the substantive difference between what the CISA did, and what the Disinformation Governance Board will do?
This is not the same program, but I'm pretty sure you knew that.
Don’t be so certain. He’s almost as dumb as he is dishonest.
The Cyberinfrastructure Security Agency (CISA) was started under Trump specifically to try to "secure" the 2020 election and to protect it from "misinformation". They even had a whole strategic plan and everything.
https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/ESI%20Strategic%20Plan_FINAL%202.7.20%20508.pdf
This idea has been around for a little while now.
You just broke your new rule.
LOL
I did? How so?
Lol. So special.
And then the dude fired Chris Krebs for actually doing his job. Never expect consistency from Trump.
Nothing in that document talks about setting up a Ministry of Truth. The specific measures around misinformation include studying the problem, creating infographics for public awareness, and creating a reporting hub for entities to report foreign interference.
This Ministry of Truth is as much a continuance of that strategy document as WWII was a continuance of the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian empire. There was specific NEW intent here that may be related to previous work, but is its own conceptual idea.
Now, Overt, let's apply the same standard to both the Disinformation Governance Board and the CISA. Are we to take both of their stated motivations at face value, or not? Because if we are, then neither one is a supposed "Ministry of Truth". This is from the AP article that broke the story:
A newly formed Disinformation Governance Board announced Wednesday will immediately begin focusing on misinformation aimed at migrants, a problem that has helped to fuel sudden surges at the U.S. southern border in recent years. Human smugglers often spread misinformation around border policies to drum up business.
[...]
The new board also will monitor and prepare for Russian disinformation threats as this year’s midterm elections near and the Kremlin continues an aggressive disinformation campaign around the war in Ukraine. Russia has repeatedly waged misinformation campaigns aimed at U.S. audiences to further divisions around election time and spread conspiracy theories around U.S. COVID-19 vaccines. Most recently, Russian state media outlets, social media accounts and officials have used the internet to call photographs, reporting and videos of dead bodies and bombed buildings in Ukraine fake.
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-immigration-media-europe-misinformation-4e873389889bb1d9e2ad8659d9975e9d
So this new board isn't going to "decide what is truth" or punish people for spreading 'disinformation'. That is, if we are going to take them at face value.
What specifically is the "new intent" that you see in this Board?
Here is a press release from CISA from 2019 specifically stating what they would be doing to "counter misinformation" in the runup to the 2020 election.
https://www.cisa.gov/uscert/ncas/current-activity/2019/07/22/building-resilience-foreign-interference-misinformation-activities
As part of the effort to #Protect2020, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) is working with national partners to build resilience to foreign interferences, particularly information activities (e.g., disinformation, misinformation). The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) views foreign interference as malign actions taken by foreign governments or actors designed to sow discord, manipulate public discourse, discredit the electoral system, bias the development of policy, or disrupt markets for the purpose of undermining the interests of the United States and its allies.
Stop fucking up the narrative with facts!!!!
There's no facts there. Saying two things are related doesn't make it true.
"The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) views foreign interference as malign actions taken by foreign governments or actors designed to sow discord, manipulate public discourse, discredit the electoral system, bias the development of policy, or disrupt markets for the purpose of undermining the interests of the United States and its allies."
This is the Democrats mantra for 2016, not Trump's in 2020.
It's both. Sorry you can't see that.
https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-signing-h-r-3359-cybersecurity-infrastructure-security-agency-act/
This vital legislation will establish a new agency within the Department of Homeland Security to lead the federal government’s civilian response to these cyber threats against our nation. We’ve had many, many threats against our nation. Cyber is going to be the newest form. And the threats have taken place, and we’ve been doing pretty good in knocking them out, but now we’ll be — this will make us, I think, much more effective. We’re putting people that are the best in the world, in charge. And I think we’re going to have a whole different ballgame. Cyber is, to a large extent, where it’s at nowadays.
It's not both. And where you really go off track is comparing "Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security" to "fighting disinformation in the media and online".
These are two incredibly different things and your conflation is dishonest.
Chemjeff you are being extremely disingenuous here. You are hoping that no one is reading the links.
The Cybersecurity department's main goals were to counter actual hacking and other electronic warfare attacks. The third workstream as stated in the document you posted was around studying misinformation, educating the populace, and creating a reporting hub for misinformation.
And sorry, no one, but NO ONE believes that the Biden administration doing this a week after Twitter was bought is a coincidence.
And sorry, no one, but NO ONE believes that the Biden administration doing this a week after Twitter was bought is a coincidence.
So what precisely are you alleging here?
Hurr duurrr, I wonder...
I’ll grant Jeffy this: he keeps us on our toes trying to tell when he’s being dumb or dishonest.
For the month of May, let's resolve to not read any news articles that have as their sole purpose to ridicule, condemn, and/or generate outrage over either Team Red or Team Blue.
That didn’t last long.
How do you think this post violates the challenge?
He's trolling.
Yeah probably.
Heard the expression about wrestling with pigs?
Pigs like this?
sarcasmic
August.12.2021 at 4:45 pm
I only show up to watch the clowns duke it out while tossing in this or that provocation. Bread and circuses. This is a circus.
sarcasmic
September.10.2021 at 12:14 pm
I stir shit up. So what.
And....
You're the pig?
Thank you for a textbook tu quoque.
You should take a bow.
Umm... you are the one who started calling us "pigs", sarc. Do we need to explain how tu quoque works again?
I'm just sad you don't show up for me being sad.
I like to presume that everyone on this board hits submit and then waits, while nursing a glass of fine bourbon, and thinks "What does BUCS, who is not a clown, have to say."
Know that your words contain violence, Sarcasmic.
I'm glad I'm not paying rent on the time I spend in your head.
You're my favorite lolcow. Of course I'm going to milk you.
Go wipe your ass with a maple leaf.
Ouch!
Not a maple leaf.
No, he's pointing out how utterly dishonest Jeff is. In a humorous way.
There's nothing trolly about pointing out Jeff's dishonesty using an exact quote.
Would this be the deep state agencies which were spying on Trump and worked with Democrats to #Fortify2020 and protect it from another round of Russian interference? Because that paragraph above? It reads like a Facebook Congressional Hearing.
I don't know. I'm simply pointing out that the idea of the government "combating misinformation" to "secure elections" is not new.
"I'm simply pointing out"
You're not simply pointing out anything, you fifty-centing fuck. You're trying to run cover for an incredibly antidemocratic activity because that's what you're paid to do.
Insulting me doesn't change the facts.
It does in their minds. Everything is about the person. If you say this then you are that. If you say that then you are this. If you are this or that then everything you say is wrong and stupid. Try to remember to back when you were thirteen. That's the maturity level you're dealing with here.
False. My stance is and always has been that anything or anyone who advances or maximizes personal liberty has my support. Period. Regarding children, who cannot be contractually obligated until adults, are under guardianship until such time. In the meantime, get the fuck off of my lawn.
Well all I'm reading is responses to a person, not to what the person said.
What facts.
If either of you idiots had read the first two paragraphs of your link you'd find that it refuted your own assertion.
This isn't Trump, it's the Democrats 2016 accusations, and it isn't a the new departments mission:
"As part of the effort to #Protect2020, the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) is working with national partners to build resilience to foreign interferences, particularly information activities (e.g., disinformation, misinformation). The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) views foreign interference as malign actions taken by foreign governments or actors designed to sow discord, manipulate public discourse, discredit the electoral system, bias the development of policy, or disrupt markets for the purpose of undermining the interests of the United States and its allies.
Responding to foreign interference requires a whole of society approach—CISA has made available the following foreign interference resources to #Protect2020:
- The War on Pineapple: Understanding Foreign Interference in 5 Steps
- Foreign Interference Taxonomy"
came to say the same, the same deep state people attacking Trump claiming they are going after misinformation but only look in one direction.
*Phew*... thanks for that. I was starting to like it.
I am completely okay with complaining about this without crediting it to any specific person.
You're supposed to judge these things by the person who started them, not on principle.
I'm too drunk these days to know who exactly is doing what.
That's what she said.
you don't have to be drunk to not know what is going on since they keep changing the players anyway to keep us unsure
Yeah, it doesn't matter. Trump was far from perfect, but the Biden administration is doing this now and that's what we need to be concerned about now.
You would think you wouldn’t have to say this to someone who’s always crying about others tribalism, yet here we are.
Yes we should be concerned. But given that this same thing - or at least a very similar thing - happened previously, we already have an idea about how high our level of concern ought to be. Based on what the CISA did, again specifically their job was to protect against "misinformation" regarding the 2020 election, it didn't turn into MiniTrue, it didn't turn into people being dragged out of their houses at 3am and thrown into a gulag for nothing more than posting a shitty meme on social media. Let's keep a bit of perspective here.
President Biden's approval rating has improved slightly from a few months ago. "With a 42 percent approval rating overall, Biden gets low marks on his handling of the economy and inflation and Republicans are significantly more trusted than Democrats on both measures," reports The Washington Post.
1. I dont believe the results of any poll. They are all conducted by and skewed towards democrats.
2. how is it even possible that bumbling and stumbling into an escalating conflict with Russia is not on the list of things people mistrust about Biden? Wtf
I don't believe the results of any poll. They are all conducted by and skewed towards democrats.
You can believe book sales metrics. Jill Biden Biography sales tank: 250 Copies in First Week
“A newly released biography about Jill Biden, by two well-respected Associated Press journalists, sold just 250 units in its first week, according to the company.”
- Politico
Released April 19….one written review on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0316377503/reasonmagazinea-20/
I love this.
Why would she even write a biography? And only two years into Biden's presidency. She's completely unremarkable as a person, let alone as a FLOTUS. Her biggest accomplishment is putting "Live Love Laugh" signs on the White House lawn and keeping Joe from wandering off.
And who TF are the 250 people who bought this? They probably just bought a copy for every member of the WH staff. Reading this would be like reading "A Brief History of Toast."
Why would she even write a biography?
The advance.
Aka money laundering. Get back to us in a couple years when we find out how much money she makes off it, and what deal by Hunter it equals 10% of.
Look, this is an obvious comment and I'd usually let it slide, but a Brief History of Toast is probably pretty interesting and involves the evolution of both bread making and cooking techniques.
Don't lump it in with this nobody.
You're right. Toast is delcious and brings joy to a lot of people.
Sorry. I lost my head for a minute.
“Her biggest accomplishment is putting "Live Love Laugh" signs on the White House lawn and keeping Joe from wandering off.”
Keeping Joe from wandering off is a pretty impressive accomplishment, it’s just not a very interesting read.
The chapter where she dressed up as the Easter Bunny to trick him into following her would maybe be kind of funny.
Coin Center is fighting back against an overreaching SEC rule
The powers that be absolutely fucking hate bitcoin, for good reason.
But Bitcoin will win in the end.
This shit was started under Bush. It was ignored under Trump. So when I say "both sides", I mean both sides. The Democrats may run with it, but the Republicans kicked the ball.
If you congressmen is not doing anything about this, then forget your congressmen and vote for someone else next time. Someone else in the primary, someone else in the general. Write in Mickey Mouse if you have it. But stop acting like your candidate is the most moral being on the planet when they don't give a shit about abuses like this.
It was started under Bush, continued and expanded under Obama and then turned on the President during Trump. Yeah, anyone who was in Congress before 2016 for sure doesn't have clean hands on this and has no right to act shocked.
Because right and wrong is determined by the party in charge at the time. Did your tribe start it? Then it's good. Did the other tribe start it? Well that means it's bad.
Why write in mickey mouse? We already have a pedofile in the white house
Coin Center is fighting back against an overreaching SEC rule:
So I guess the unregulatable IS in fact regulatable...
Associated Press review has identified a number of concerns about the technology, including questions about its reliability and its potential to harden racial disparities in the child welfare system," they write.
Everything everywhere is only a problem when it affects racial disparities.
What about the disparities between short and tall people? Skinny and fat people? Smart and dumb people? Extroverts and introverts? Marvel fans and DC fans? Bears fans and Lions fans? No one ever thinks about those do they?
Lions fans?
That’s not a real thing, is it?
Models and algorithms are science. Are you denying science?
The academic literature and reproductive-access research groups also tend to focus on government-provided medicine and care. But "this public sector orientation within the reproductive health community disproportionately diminishes the important role of the private sector in meeting the reproductive health needs of couples around the world, particularly in the area of safe abortion":
All civilized countries have single-payer.
• President Biden's approval rating has improved slightly from a few months ago. "With a 42 percent approval rating overall, Biden gets low marks on his handling of the economy and inflation and Republicans are significantly more trusted than Democrats on both measures," reports The Washington Post.
This is a problem. How do we reverse this? There's an election coming up that needs fortifying.
"Instead, the judge said, all Brnovich did is demand that [Secretary of State Katie] Hobbs accede to the changes he wants, changes she has so far refused to make."
Katie Hobbs, Katie Hobbs... where have I heard that name?
Oh yeah:
Hobbs said that Republicans are "are laying the groundwork to steal" the 2024 presidential election.
"Republicans aren't just protesting the results of our most recent presidential election ... they are laying the groundwork to steal the next one," she wrote. "
Our elections are the most secure in the history of the solar system... unless Republicans are in charge!
"they are laying the groundwork to steal the next one"
Remember that Democrats and progs always accuse everyone else of doing exactly what they're planning to do.
Everyone needs to watch them like hawks this time.
My sources in DC say if GOP takes Congress being a woke CEO will mean hours of hearing testimony— Disney’s clash with Ron DeSantis shows new pushback toward companies speaking out on social issues.
"Speaking out on social issues".
Kayyyy.
Forcing your employees into race-based affinity groups is now "speaking out on social issues."
Forcing white people into self criticism sessions is the libertarian moment man.
Shit, I wish we had more self-criticism in our society. The minute of hate isn't really particularly self-reflective though.
Remember when the CEO of Coinbase banned political discussion forums on his company's Slack servers, and told all his employees "keep your activism at home, you're here to work" and all the lefties lost their minds and called him a white supremacists?
yeah I remember that.
"My sources in DC say if GOP takes Congress being a woke CEO will mean hours of hearing testimony— Disney’s clash with Ron DeSantis shows new pushback toward companies speaking out on social issues." - Charles Gasparino" (whoever he is)
My instincts tell me if the GOP takes congress they will go the Asa Hutchinson way.
https://news.yahoo.com/asa-hutchinson-criticises-desantis-punitive-190127965.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall
Further, I suspect, their primary initiatives will be stamping out Trumpism, Teapartyism, DeSantisism and building bridges to all that corporate cash out there.
I cannot fathom that 40% of the electorate would approve of Biden's performance. That just does not seem possible.
I could see more than 40% thinking the alternative is no better.Or, if they thought the alternative was trump, maybe they think the alternative is worse. But there is no chance that anyone anyone who has any cognizance of what is happening in the country approves of Biden.
I suppose the Communist workers party of America folks who are writing the BLM platform might approve. But other than that?
Who are these people? Who is answering a survey and saying they approve of Biden? I know we have paid shills running around that say the words but even they can't actually approve of this crap.
The real question is what percentage of the populace is purely partisan. That's the floor.
Though, I feel like I could construct some argument that wasn't so much pro-Biden as it was pro-it's not all his fault. That presumably carries truck with some folks.
I don't know though. I think polls are frequently not that useful for this very reason. Why people think things is actually very important, and I think it's more important over time than what they actually think at any given moment.
Yep. The letter behind your name gets you roughly 35% by itself. Even when Bush's numbers were cratered he was still pulling high 20s.
partisanship is a helluva drug
History has shown how to get presidential numbers up.
Engage in a war.
Dropping dead.
The latter also gets the benefit of getting everything not nailed down renamed in your honor.
Right now, Joe is working on both. It's just a matter of which one happens first.
"The FBI Secretly Searched Americans' Digital Communications 3.4 Million Times Last Year" Hey, if you're not doing anything wrong you got nothing to worry about.
Really think this through. Legitimate searches of legitimate probable cause (which the 4th Amendment legally requires) should be resulting in a minimum of a 50% conviction rate or it’s simply a fishing expedition.
In other words 3 million people searched, at the very minimum should result in 1.5 million convictions.
Using a “Needle in the Haystack” metaphor, basically this makes the “haystack” of suspects gargantuan, making it much harder to find the real bad guys.
FISA was actually created to prevent abusive searches following Watergate and Cointelpro in the 1970’s not to facilitate abusive practices.
Years ago, according to the national office of the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) over 200 FBI field agents objected to the Bush Administration illegal torture and interrogation program.
In other words, apparently over 200 witnesses (FBI agents) thought the interrogation bordered on torture and war crimes, which is a felony under U.S. federal law. Ironically Bush officials were violating Ronald Reagan’s torture treaty which also outlaws cruel treatment and is also federal law.
Why didn’t the FBI arrest, indict and convict the Bush torture attorneys at the U.S. Department of Justice. There is ample evidence and many of the suspects admitted to the war crimes.
If you don’t remember, Bush DOJ attorneys renamed a centuries old torture technique, derived from the Spanish Inquisition, as “non-torture”. The U.S. military even admits it’s torture and trains U.S. troops in “counter-torture” (SEER training).
Why won”t the FBI enforce these cases since there are no statute of limitations on war crimes? Most war crime convictions happen 20-60 years following the war crime. Now is exactly the right time to provide accountability.
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