SCOTUS Could (and Should) Strike Down California's Animal-Rights Law
Proposition 12 threatens the national food economy.

The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to hear an important challenge to a terrible, regressive California animal-rights law that violates the U.S. Constitution, fairness, and common sense. The challenge was filed by the nation's largest pork producers, most of whom may no longer be able to supply pork to the California market due to Proposition 12, an animal-rights law adopted by California voters in 2018.
At its most basic level, this case concerns Prop. 12's targets: farmers raising livestock outside California for consumers in California. But, as I've detailed, given California's gigantic population and the impact the state's food economy and regulations have on the rest of the nation, this case is also as much about farmers, retailers, restaurateurs, and consumers in Iowa, South Dakota, or North Carolina as it is about those in California.
As I explained earlier this year, Proposition 12 was a California ballot measure that was adopted in 2018 by nearly two-thirds of state voters. The initiative, supported by many of the nation's largest animal-rights groups, requires that confinement spaces for covered livestock whose meat or eggs will be sold in California must be large enough that the animals have enough room to lie down, turn around, and spread their wings. The law includes fines and possible jail time for violators.
Prop. 12's definition of "confined in a cruel manner" includes confining a veal calf in a space that's less than 43 square feet; a breeding pig in a space less than 24 square feet, or an egg-laying hen in a space that's less than 144 square inches. Sellers of meat and other products made from these animals may be held liable in California under the law if they knowingly sell products—a pork chop, say—that don't comply with the law.
While Prop. 12 will raise prices that California consumers pay for many animal products, its real impact is—as intended—being felt outside the state.
"The requirements of Proposition 12 apply to covered products sold in the state, irrespective of whether the products originate from covered animals raised on farms within or outside of California," a state Prop 12 explainer details (emphasis mine). "For example, a breeding pig confined in another state must be housed in compliance with Proposition 12 if her offspring will be used for purposes of covered pork products sold in California for human consumption."
That's outrageous. It's even more outrageous when you consider that California imports nearly all (99.87 percent) of its pork. And though Californians consume around 15 percent of the nation's pork, only around 4 percent of pork producers nationwide currently meet California standards.
It's almost as if Prop. 12 was adopted to crush the national market for pork. Thankfully, the U.S. Constitution prohibits such laws.
In their suit, the pork producers rightly argue that Prop. 12 is unconstitutional because it created "dramatic economic effects outside of the state and require[s] changes to the nationwide farm industry [that] violate the dormant Commerce Clause." (The dormant Commerce Clause, I've explained, prohibits states from adopting laws and regulations, like Prop. 12, that impose unfair burdens on interstate commerce.)
A ruling in the case could have a dramatic impact on other laws around the country—including California's equally unconstitutional foie gras ban and a Massachusetts law that's similar to Prop. 12. Indeed, the first case listed in the pork producers' Supreme Court petition is a suit challenging California's foie gras ban. I've written at least as much as anyone about that case, including many columns and a Supreme Court amicus brief in support of foie gras producers (which I submitted, as counsel of record, on behalf of the Reason Foundation, which published this website, and the Cato Institute).
"California's foie gras ban is a primary example of a food or agricultural law that erects unconstitutional obstacles and barriers to the national food economy. But the law does not stand alone. Other recent California laws evidence both a comparable intent and impact. Worse still, other states have begun to follow California's lead, passing laws that pose similar challenges to the existence of the national food economy," I explained in the amicus brief. "If this Court allows states to prohibit interstate commerce in poultry products and other animal products that are inspected and deemed wholesome, unadulterated, and properly branded under federal law, then laws like these from California, Massachusetts, and other states could ultimately destroy our national market in food."
I am a big fan of all types of food economies—local, state, regional, national, and international—and I think each plays a key role in making America's food supply abundant, resilient, and responsive to consumer demands. If we are to continue to have a robust national food economy, the Supreme Court must strike down Proposition 12.
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This is an interesting case. Legally, it seems that the challenge is correct. This argues for federal, not state standards, though.
It will indeed make animal products more expensive, hurting poor people, and be a financial hardship on producers.
Yet it is hard to argue that living animals are just products, to be treated inhumanely. They are sentient. I willingly pay more for cruelty-"free" eggs. I would have voted for the California law, even though I believe it is unconstitutionally implemented and I am an originalist.
If you want organic products, you pay for them.
If you want cruelty free products, you pay for them.
Don’t make everyone buy what you want.
The law was passed by two thirds of CA voters and they are the only ones that will have to pay for it.
Originalist my ass, if you would vote for an unconstitutional law.
Libertarian my ass, if you think forcing others to match your morality is a proper function of government.
Selfish ignorant unaware asshole, if you think imposing your morality on others won't result in them imposing their morality on you.
Clueless unthinking short-sighted fool if you can't see the ever-escalating spiral of government intervention as a result of using government to impose morality on others.
"Selfish ignorant unaware asshole, if you think imposing your morality on others won't result in them imposing their morality on you."
Well, then, better make sure my tribe seizes power and crushes all opposition, right?
Humans unable to decide what they eat and how they come by it aren't sentient and is an exceedingly inhumane state of affairs. Especially if imposed by men rather than nature. When a chicken is able to articulate their preferences for themselves and their progeny, there might be a case to be had. Otherwise, if they don't care what happens to their eggs/piglets or even themselves, as long as there's food in the trough, there's no reason not to oblige them.
I will worry about the humane treatment of food animals when predators worry about humanely harvesting their prey.
There was a case many years ago which perfectly illustrates this. Angel Island in SF Bay has/had a deer population. With no natural predators, they quickly exceeded the island's carrying capacity. The government in charge proposed an auction for hunters to thin the herd. Animal rights and anti-gun protestors screamed. The auction switched to bow hunters. Animal rights protestors screamed even louder. The eventually airlifted food out to the poor starving deer.
I will worry about the humane treatment of food animals when predators worry about humanely harvesting their prey.
Personally, conditionally, not even then. Plenty of venomous, parasitic, and opportunistic predators exist. I don't regard mosquitoes or ticks or komodo dragons as humane because they kill their prey more humanely or largely without physical violence.
When a wolf says, "Don't kill me, I have pups." or a deer says, "Don't kill me, I have a fawn.", then we can have a discussion about their redeeming values and the relative merits of our positions in the food chain. Until then, and maybe even after, I'm just paying it forward.
Was there any doubt that the Bay Area solution would be welfare?
Beefarino?
This is precisely the problem with government, exacerbated tremendously when government employees (judges) determine government limits.
When US government was small, back before the Civil War, people could ignore government in their daily lives. As government expanded, it became more and more profitable, literally, to use the government to mind other people's business than to mind your own business. fabmonster's comment is absolutely typical of why that is so, both as example of the past and lesson plan for the future.
Your comment is sarcasm, I know, but too many people know that as reality in today's political climate.
Exactly!!!
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/my-freedom-protects-you-your-freedom
This new style of government freed the creative power of Americans, driving the ‘backwater’ new nation to innovate and become a major player on the world stage. Across the world, those suffering under bad government risked everything to come to America and start a new life free of tyrannical rulers.
But it is the nature of governments to grow.
And after a while, the founders were gone and ‘career politicians’ were inhabiting the halls of Congress. These politicians found the restrictions of the Constitution to be a pain in the ass — because the restrictions were SUPPOSED to be a pain in the ass for government. But little by little, the government found lawyers and judges that allowed it to overstep its Constitutional limits.
I have long wondered how much better society would be now, possibly even with flying cars, if so many people weren't sidelined in non-productive work. Somewhere I read that personal income taxes alone take 6 billion man-hours of people's time -- 3 million full time jobs. Every government bureaucrat adds many more private bureaucrat counterparts. Governments spend 40% of GDP -- what a colossal waste! Easily 90% could be written off overnight, and what mattered taken over by private industry. Only purebred statists with zero imagination could believe that Consumer Reports and new equivalents would not do a better job of reporting misbegotten food labels or auto mechanic ripoffs at a tenth the cost. Insurance companies would handle building codes for more efficiently and modernized. Prosecutors and police held accountable to citizen standards, without the war on drugs, alcohol, and tobacco, would be far more efficient at actually addressing real crime.
And without the wokistry piling on the sophistry backed up by government coercion, society would be a lot more friendly helpful.
I guess dreaming is about all there is left, and it dwindles daily. My dream is that technology will increasingly isolate society from busybodies, leaving the wokists and statists to an increasingly irrelevant meat world.
But then how would do-gooders or control freaks get to spend other people's money for stuff that people don't want, but "should" have?
That guy writes my thought exactly, but better and shorter.
That guy is Elvisisreal.
It's true! Elvis is real!
Elvis is in your jeans!
Or is that genes?
Anyway, Elvis is everywhere!
Sadly I click your link, and even sadlier I read it, and even sadliest it's way better(from a libertarian perspective) than the crap reason churns out
That's literally the only reason I started doing it. I wasn't seeing ANYONE with a real libertarian-oriented viewpoint on current issues.
Totally agree with you, the federal government should have next to nothing to do with my life. The state provides the vast majority of my government needs, yet the federal government is taking the vast majority of my tax money, that makes 0 sense.
As far as California, if they want to go meatless that's their business, not the federal governments. If they import 99% of their pork and because of their own actions there is no bacon or sausage or ham to be had they'll change their tune or the entire state will go vegan.
My morality is the NAP and I absolutely think the government should impose it on others. In fact I think it's the only proper function of government.
Until the mob gets to change the definition of aggression.
“Until the mob gets to change the definition of aggression.”
Rest assured, any change will be on the micro level. No worries!
… government should impose it on others.
You mean the guys with guns should impose your version of the NAP?
The nap is no longer applicable as we don't have a live and let live world. The progtards have created a kill or be killed game, with all of their evil lawfair.
^
Yet it is hard to argue that living animals are just products, to be treated inhumanely.
Living animals are just products to be treated inhumanely because they are not human. EZPZ.
They are sentient.
Not all or even the majority of them. Moreover, sentient =/= humane.
Ultimately, you're full of shit because the CA law has dick to do with 'humane'. If adult women routinely rolled over in their sleep and crushed their infants would it be inhumane to prevent them from doing so? The CA law is actively trying to prevent that. The case for chickens is even more nebulous but still distinct in that the chickens themselves aren't being inhumanely harvested/slaughtered.
You're falsely conflating your morals with reality because you don't give a shit about either one, you just want to impose your self-righteousness far beyond what even the most fundamentalist Christian and even many Muslim zealots would regard as being in any way sensible.
They are sentient. They aren't sapient. Sentient is "feeling", sapient is "thinking".
If by feeling you mean reacting to stimulus, then we are gonna get really hungry, since just about every living thing does that.
Plants react to stimuli. Yeh, sentient ain't gonna cut it.
I was correcting the definition, not saying we shouldn't eat sentient things. I think we shouldn't eat sapient things, but I don't think that's a particularly uncommon position.
Inflation certainly reacted to Stimulus—-and I don’t think any of us have any choice but to eat it!
Very nice.
“I would have voted for the California law, even though I believe it is unconstitutionally implemented and I am an originalist.”
If you think something is unconstitutional, and you would vote for it anyway, you’re not an originalist, you’re a statist cunt.
Sentient, not Sapient. We Rational Animals come first or the sentient animals we raise don't have anything.
"...Yet it is hard to argue that living animals are just products, to be treated inhumanely..."
Only for steaming piles of lefty shot
Animals are incapable of respecting rights, therefore, they have no respectable right to them.
Oh good someone who thinks that coming up with reasoning that sounds good to themselves should be the basis for laws from their state trumping the laws of other states. In that case I am going to trump California's laws on several different topics with those laws in my state.
In news that's not getting the attention and mockery that it really should, the favorite national television media outlet of Park Slope Welchie Boy, Goth Fonzie Wop, and all the rest of the fugazi libertarians of Reason, MSNBC, has given up even their last remaining pretense of being an independent news network and has hired the Biden administration mouthpiece and wannabe Agent Dana Scully (minus the brains and the stunning good looks):
https://nypost.com/2022/04/07/psaki-the-professional-prevaricator-is-a-perfect-fit-for-msnbc/
They had to step up their lying game.
I was unaware that they maintained a pretense.
wannabe Agent Dana Scully (minus the brains and the stunning good looks)
I'm pretty sure you mean doppleganger. Scully sought the truth and was fully willing to see the bigger picture(s) and turn on her employer, the Government, in its pursuit.
/X-files nerd rant
Psmooth career pside pstep! Pseemless really…
No, no, no.
We should encourage California to apply the same ideological purity tests to every good and service consumed in the state. Cars, tech gear, energy, finance, Youtube videos--everything--can only be sourced from people, enterprises, and countries that can prove they meet all the extreme ideals and standards set by the high priests of California utopian society.
I'm not sure how this is functionally different from their laws about what firearms are allowed to be sold in the state.
I dunno. On one hand, I obviously think that's bullshit, but in the other, is it really a violation of the rights of the producers outside of the state to be told "you can't sell your product here if it doesn't meet certain standards"? Or skip the firearm question, how is it different from them setting their own emissions standards for vehicles sold in the state?
If Californians survive the immediate purity embargo, then suppliers, in or out of state, can decide whether to accommodate their preferences.
A firearm manufacturer can easily make CA-compliant firearms while still still making normal guns for the rest of the country. A livestock farm can't really split itself like that, it either has to raise everything CA-compliant or none of it. Same for meat processors, once an animal comes in they can't keep CA-compliant and noncompliant separate, so it's a choice between all or nothing.
In an ideal world a few farms and processors would convert to CA-compliance to supply their market, as well as a voluntary market for anyone else who wants "cruelty-free" meat, but the rest would carry on business as usual.
Except I'm thinking of the models of firearms that aren't on their approved handgun list. And if they aren't on the list, they can't be sold in the state. There are any number of recent handguns that just can't be purchased in California.
Again, it's not that I'm defending this pork law (or their firearm laws, for that matter) I'm just not seeing why this is different than any of the other times California has done this to the country.
Think of it this way: My state has more lax gun laws that CA. My state effectively enacts a law that tells CA they can stuff it when it comes to their own gun laws and that mine override theirs.
I wonder exactly how it is that CA will arrest someone across the nation for a violation of this law? I mean, I'm aware of the interstate agreements for violations of law, but ultimately it's CA saying that their law can be enforced anywhere across the nation.
If allowed to stand, CA could unilaterally write laws that affect national commerce of any business type which provides anything to CA. In effect, they could surpass even federal commerce powers if they tried. I would expect if it is allowed to stand, you'll see more and more laws like this from CA, and quite possibly a few other states.
Then on top of that other states can write laws that specifically oppose CA laws, and what happens then? Laws like this are bad and they knew it when they did it. They're trying to impose their version of morality on the entire country.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/democrats-block-subpoena-hunter-biden-testify-congress
The nice thing about having the news media in your pocket is that you don't have to play fairly or even legally. They'll never report it.
Even better, IF republicans take the house, any legitimate investigation they attempt will be demonized by the media, including Reason.
They think you're stupid and impotent
https://twitter.com/AP/status/1512766468722733058?t=fgiKY0aRUraKPrZhzccwOA&s=19
U.S. intelligence officials think Russian President Vladimir Putin may use the Biden administration’s support for Ukraine as a pretext to order a new interference campaign in American politics. That's according to a new assessment told to @AP by sources.
[Link]
Putin neither needs, nor wants a pretext. Have no doubt that Russia will attempt to interfere with American politics. They have for a very long time and will continue to do so regardless of the status of our position on Ukraine. Nothing is going to stop them anytime soon. They're going to do it, regardless of any reason Putin may give. It's not a pretext, it's a foregone conclusion where apparently someone in AP thinks that a pretext is needed.
So my wife’s aunt and her friend, who voted in person in the 2020 election here in Michigan, went to the following site and found out that their votes were not counted.
https://audityourvote.com/
Impossible.
Unlike 2016, this magical election was the freest and fairest in human history. Sullum and Robby swore it.
That's why people should loose their right to free speech for questioning it.
Don’t forget Welchie boy scoffing like Chuck Todd on Kennedy about the idea of it.
Pennsylvania has election officials on video saying they misplaced vote hard drives and had to recreate votes. Nothing happened.
And now new emails show democrats in Pennsylvania working directly with voters activist groups to intentionally change election rules in specific democrat areas to switch the vote only for democrats.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/04/08/explosive-pennsylvania-testimony-explains-how-leftist-money-infiltrated-election-offices-in-2020/
I don't even think that story is controversial. It's Known, it's been publicly admitted in numerous forums and media outlets, and they're even proud of it, calling it 'election fortification'.
It is controversial because the money went directly to election offices which are etasked with equal treatment of all voters. When an election office uses non public funds to fund 3x the election costs in only certain areas, it is a violation of both state and federal constitutions requiring equal measures for all voters.
These individual funds went through public offices, not only at the behest of 3rd parties. Acrovists tied these finds to changes to election laws in only certain locations. One county had 10x more drop boxes than any other county, as an example.
It also fed offices, such as in Wisconsin, yo convince state election workers to ignore violations of mail ballot requirements. A judge has already ruled this was illegal.
Also Pennsylvania election officials are fighting against release of information regarding a glitch in the voting system that let non citizens vote in 2020.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/04/08/court-pennsylvania-must-release-records-on-non-citizens-voting-in-elections/
They lost that in court, which told them the records had to be released.
Something did happen; Biden is in office.
The problem is clearly the 'audit your vote' site because this was The Most Secure Election Ever.
Activists take over Q&A portion of Colin West even chanting Black Lives Matter.... at a black man. Chase down conservative students after event forcing them to hide from 200 person mob.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/video-leftists-scream-black-lives-matter-swarm-allen-west-at-campus-event-police-escort-him-out
Allen West*
Yeah that guy’s just an Uncle Tom so who cares.
The bug names in media seem to be aghast that the FBI isn't allowed to entrap people for political reasons regarding the Whitmer case.
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/michigan-militia-trial-whitmer-kidnapping-plot-highlights-surge-violen-rcna22903
It is important to remember the DoJ and FBI rushed the case under the guise of a need to quickly stop the plot, before the election, but kept delaying trial as they had no evidence for months after the initial story broke.
"By eroding trust in law enforcement, the far right can continue to claim the Jan. 6 insurrection was nothing more than an exercise in free speech."
"The fact that the left and the FBI did something highly illegal and potentially dangerous in order to slime Trump with isn't the problem. The real problem is that people might suspect our Jan. 6 narrative is also a lie".
No shame. The NBC opinion writers have obviously received their journolisming training from the same place our Reasonistas do.
FDAs experts don't know why CDC approved a 4th booster. The evidence for it is near non existent.
https://dailycaller.com/2022/04/06/fda-covid-19-coronavirus-second-booster-authorized-pfizer/
The protection it confers against XE was speculated to be 3%, but testing shows it is actually less than zero. You're slightly more likely to be infected with XE if you have the Pfizer shot.
Meanwhile you still will get fired from your job in some places, if you don't have the most profitable pharmaceutical product in human history coursing through your veins.
I was told many times it was totally safe and there were no downsides.
This is an interesting case.
On the one hand, I understand the dormant commerce clause arguments, and the more general point that this California law is likely to have a dramatic impact beyond the borders of the state.
At the same time, California is not FORCING anyone to do anything. Pork producers have a free and independent choice about whether they want to sell pork that complies with the California law, and if they don't want to do that, they are equally free to sell their pork elsewhere in the United States, or on the world market.
Also, if the disparities in pork production and consumption mentioned in this article are correct, then pretty soon there will be almost no pork available in California. This will lead to a few possibilities, including a massive increase in the price of pork products, which might result in Californians choosing to switch their consumption to cheaper products. It might also, however, create a market opportunity for entrepreneurs who are willing to produce pork to California's standards in order to take advantage of the higher prices.
California voters would also get a chance to live with the consequences of their actions. The proposition that created this law was passed by California voters by a margin of 63-37. I wonder how many of those who voted for it will regret doing so when pork costs more than lobster in their local supermarket?
At the same time, California is not FORCING anyone to do anything. Pork producers have a free and independent choice about whether they want to sell pork that complies with the California law, and if they don't want to do that, they are equally free to sell their pork elsewhere in the United States, or on the world market.
Yes, but the feds have a right to regulate interstate commerce-- to keep it 'regular'. This California law introduces barriers, making interstate commerce of this product difficult or non-existent.
We use the commerce clause as an excuse to regulate all types of behavior, very little of it really having anything to do with interstate commerce (Violence against bitches act: She might get upset and go live with her mother who lives across state lines, in the process of driving there, she might stop at a convenience store to get a back of chips: commerce). If there is any law which was passed which ACTUALLY DOES have something to do with interstate commerce, this one is it.
Except, I think the trade is "regular" in that sense. They aren't imposing an import tax, or imposing different rules for in-state versus out-state producers, which were some of the big original motivating factors for the clause.
I really don't know. I think the more generalized question is "Are the individual states allowed to set product standards above the federal baseline?" I'm not at all sure the answer is "No".
I guess I'm also just sort of surprised that this was the final straw regarding California and regulations. Because it's hardly the first thing. As I mentioned above, they do the same thing with car emissions and firearms, and there are a whole fuck ton of industrial chemicals that are just nearly impossible to find available retail because California banned them. At least bacon would still be available in other places. When CA banned Methyl Ethyl Ketone, it suddenly vanished off the shelf in New Mexico, too.
I don’t call our ruling class here the Cali-Ban for nothing!
Thank you, Paul. The Commerce Clause has been twisted to allow federal encroachments on economic liberties which were so obviously not intended by the Commerce Clause that even intellectually honest proponents of those encroachments don’t claim the invocation of the CC was done in good faith. They just claim ends justifying dishonest means. (Shorter: They see eggs and omelettes where I see bulls and piles of shit.) The CC has only been dormant as regards its intended role—and yes, this is indeed the case and time for it to make itself (properly) useful again.
Good take on this one.
For me, if CA can legally demand special formulations for gas, then I do not see how this violates the law either.
It's fucking hilarious that the people who hate California so much and are always dependent on their money.
Almost as pathetically hypocritical as reason being largely funded by David Koch's fortune of government subsidies on oil and gas.
Gobble up welfare while screeching at democratic processes producing rules you don't like; yep that's the libertarianism I come to reason for lmao.
Who’s dependent on California’s money exactly?
Gavin Newsom?
How is that hypocritical? I can hate my boss but still rely on his paying me to keep a roof over my head.
pablo escobar's hippos
April.9.2022 at 1:06 pm
"It's fucking hilarious that the people who hate California so much and are always dependent on their money..."
Not nearly as hilarious as your attempts to impersonate a sentient human being.
Fuck off and die, steaming pile of lefty shit.
This is exactly why you inbred Retardlicans meed to be culled like the worthless trash you are. Use your precious gun rights to put a bullet in your head.
I guess I don't understand. You are free to grow pigs however you want, you just can't sell them in California if they don't meet California standards. You are free to build whatever car you want, you just can't sell if in California if it doesn't meet California standards.
Difference?
Why are you so threatened by this?
Silicon Valley is free to make any social media site they want, they just have to meet Florida's standards.
Nice false equivalence
Perfect equivalence, actually
Maybe not everyone in California thinks it’s important. Maybe not even a majority.
Why are you so threatened by this?
Your stupidity doesn't protect you or me.
My stupidity protects you, your stupidity protects me, but my stupidity doesn't protect me, and your stupidity doesn't protect you.
Wait; are we still talking pork, or voting? And is there a difference?
Sacramento will never run out of Pork—-they’ve got Barrels of it in reserve!
As for California’s unwashed masses, let them eat that OTHER white meat! Oh wait—-just checked their voting patterns. They ARE the other white meat! Sorry, my BA-A-A-AHD!
Because interstate trade is regulated at the federal level, not the state level.
I don't think you understand how the food market works. The farmer isn't making decisions about where to sell it. The meat packers aren't going to make separate factories for CA-compliant and non-CA-compliant pork. If meat packers ultimately choose to comply with CA demands, pig farmers will have no choice. (And the need to sell to meat packers is driven by federal regulation, so its hardly a free market).
“The meat packers aren't going to make separate factories for CA-compliant and non-CA-compliant pork.”
Why not? Maybe that is precisely what will happen. California isn’t using force outside its borders; it is using its influence as a large, but far from only, consumer of a product.
Business and marketplaces modify their practices all the time. When COVID hit, we all found out there are separate supply chains for retail and commercial toilet paper, for example.
It is when it fines, or attempts to arrest someone (which is apparently the result of breaking that specific law) who is not within the state itself.
Now that's a different angle of attack that might actually work.
"...You are free to grow pigs however you want, you just can't sell them in California if they don't meet California standards..."
Interstate commerce is really a mystery to you, isn't it, steaming pile of lefty shit"?
Lol the fucktard schizo only has one insult. Off yourself.
Since California does not make it's own electricity (mostly) or it's own food (mostly), perhaps we should just cut them off and let them work it out for themselves.
The only factually correct statement he makes is, "I guess I don't understand."
https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/1512813779117035529?t=2pE7WM1t2IizwCJncRXvOA&s=19
Nazi Germany's former ally Japan has removed its official neo-Nazi designation for Ukraine's neo-Nazi Azov militia, because the fascist gang plays such an important role in Ukraine's government
Japan is again helping Nazis. What could possibly go wrong!
[Link]
Well, what could go wrong would involve you being exposed as a lying piece of shit, doing your absolute best to support the aggressor Putin and the Nazi shitbag Misek.
As you have been doing for some time, asshole.
Yeah, I'm not seeing the guy saying that Ukraine is full of Neo Nazi's as being a Misek supporter.
Define "Neo Nazi".
Anyone unironically flying or carrying a flag with a swastika on it?
Lol its only been dipshit right wingers supporting russia
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
(or something like that by someone sometime)
So what is needed here is for all these damn corporations to grow a pair and just stop selling in CA until the law is repealed. California may be a big market, but the only way to end this madness is to show the populace, good an hard, that they are not, in fact, our rulers. A couple of companies just saying "NO" is all it will take. With the centralization in meat processing, this might be our best bet.
Wait, what? There’s no evil in this whole scenario. There is the voters of one populous and influential state passing an animal welfare law, wisely or not, and the ensuing haggling over business.
Kill yourself
Aww, are you offended, retardlican? You and your kind need to be slaughtered
Kill yourself
Trying to force entire industry's to bend to your retarded fucking "animal rights" feelings is evil. Ditto for any other "feelings" about non-sapient things having rights.
This is why retards like you need to be culled
Take your best shot.
There’s no evil in this whole scenario.
Yes, there is.
The initiative... requires that confinement spaces for covered livestock whose meat or eggs will be sold in California must be large enough that the animals have enough room to lie down, turn around, and spread their wings.
Seems like a pretty reasonable and humane law.
Just because an industry is "Big Something" doesn't mean you have to automatically defend it.
If it seems reasonable then you know nothing about farming, what the law actually says, the law fare practice to force everyone to conform to a small minorities views, the constitution, or how evil and retarded the proggies in CA are
Right? Except for the fact that it'll result in lots and lots and lots of dead piglets. That's the problem with basing one's positions on what "sounds humane" without doing any actual research.
It also indulges fantasy. Exactly how much space should be given to a near entirely flightless bird to spread its wings?
"Seems like a pretty reasonable and humane law..."
Tell us how "humane" relates to interstate commerce. Or admit you are arguing from emotion.
So you admit that you can do nothing but suck the cock of corporations?
Well at least we know you're arguing from emotion and not anything to do with interstate commerce.
California won't be satisfied until every restaurant is The French Laundry.
Predicted followup article: Whycome California a Food Desert?!
Equity!
"I am the dream and the hope of the slave."
-KBJ
https://twitter.com/toadmeister/status/1512671686700802050?t=Eyr2D4JBHnCURLflgL9gTQ&s=19
Data from New Zealand show the vaccinated are up to six times more likely to be infected than the unvaccinated, casting further doubt on the efficacy of the vaccines.
[Link]
Lol ok retard, using Twitter as a source
https://twitter.com/mazemoore/status/1512936808153333762?t=Mf7n4a8V1kfkk-QGACt8WQ&s=19
Here is Biden thanking the FBI and comparing the wannabe "kidnappers" of Gretchen Whitmer to ISIS.
Notice a pattern? Biden has also thanked the FBI for their work on Jan. 6th, the Russian bounty hoax, investigating Charlottesville, and discrediting his son's laptop.
[Link]
https://twitter.com/drunkcynic/status/1512794343488299013?t=Fpb-vQ5PeATyDpC8rtWGgA&s=19
So HIV positive soldiers can serve, but not those who declined the covid vaccine?
[Link]
Lol:
You voted for it.
Was there a link for this one?
Yeah, forgot to post it.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/magnets-for-crime-how-one-seattle-politicians-views-shifted-on-homeless-encampments/
Thanks!
So Chicago on a 3 day weekend is Seattle's worst?
Well, yeah, Seattle is a micro population of Chicago. And it's all relative.
I think the murder rate in Chicago is higher, but at least we can all agree, when progressives kill each other we all win
Hu...hu...ha! HAHAHAHA!
Intel: Putin may cite Ukraine war to meddle in US politics
I think I already said something about how stupid this assertion is. Putin may cite that, but does not need a pretext or reason to meddle in American politics. Russia has been for a long time and will continue to do so for a long time.
More evidence masking didn't do shit.
Trouble is, the dormant commerce clause makes sense only in the same way that the Constitution's grant of the power to Congress to establish postal service also grants them the power to exclude anyone else from that business.
That's outrageous. It's even more outrageous when you consider that California imports nearly all (99.87 percent) of its pork.
And Iowa imports 100% of its seafood. Does that mean that Iowa can't set standards for imported fish?
Mr. Linnekin's support for this "dormant" Commerce Clause interpretation seems entirely counter to the position most libertarians have on other Commerce Clause issues. (A quick search on the topic reveals that Scalia and Thomas wrote strongly against the whole principle as not being at all consistent with an originalist interpretation.) My layperson's understanding of the dormant Commerce Clause principle is that it is an inference of the federal power to regulate interstate commerce to prohibit states from engaging in protectionism. They cannot favor businesses based in their states over businesses based in other states.
Mr. Linnekin, though, seems to be arguing that states can't regulate the importation of goods or services at all if it negatively impacts interstate commerce. This is taking criticism of Commerce Clause precedent and turning it on its head. Libertarian criticism of precedent like Wickard v. Filburn (1942), where a farmer was fined for growing wheat to feed his own livestock during Great Depression and WWII price control efforts, is about government regulation going too far into the private economic activities of people. They dispute the argument that Wickard was still impacting interstate commerce even though he wasn't selling the wheat on the open market. Here, Linnekin is arguing that California regulating what is bought and sold in its own borders is negatively impacting the interstate pork market, and thus it is unconstitutional for that reason.
This contradicts the usual 10th Amendment sympathies libertarians profess. Despite Mr. Linnekin's argument, California is only seeking to regulate what takes place within its own borders. A producer is not affected by this law until they try to sell their products in California. He wants to make this about California's size and relative importance in the national economy. To go back to my opening statement, if Iowa insisted that only wild-caught fish could be sold in Iowa, that would have a negligible impact on the fishing industry outside of Iowa because Iowa's population and market for fish is so small compared to the whole country. But it would seem that California doing the same thing, on the other hand, would be a very big deal, and thus unconstitutional, in Linnekin's view. The interest of California's voters in worrying about the ecological effects of fish farms would be outweighed by the negative impact on the national market for fish. That the California fishing industry would be affected by such a law as much as those in other states would not be enough to save the law, apparently.
This is all clearly less about constitutional principles than it is about an ideological belief in the benefits of open markets. Regulation is bad, period. It is especially bad if it means I can't eat foie gras or have to pay more for bacon, right?
Setting aside libertarian constitutional arguments, which you have stated very well, let’s look at the practicalities of how the market can respond:
- Food producers cannot supply as much meat to California. Meat becomes more expensive there, less expensive in other states. Some or a lot of producers go out of business — bad outcome for the producers who cannot adapt, but also something we libertarians expect to happen to businesses in a free market.
- Some meat producers decide to full or partially specialize for the California market. The free market adapting, just as it does all the time to changes in consumer demands and preferences.
- If meat becomes too expensive or hard to get in California, voters realize they have made a mistake and repeal the law. Or, since Californians can be stubbornly idealistic, Californians continues to become less attractive place to live in yet another way.
-
- Meat becomes too expensive or hard to get in California, and Californians being stubbornly idealistic, successfully push to enact a federal law with the same requirements as their state law.
Well, if it comes to that hypothetical then you have a legitimate political fight, but until them California isn’t forcing anyone outside California to do anything.
You keep insisting that it doesn't force anyone outside of CA to do anything. Do you not understand how any of this works?
Just because it’s a law doesn’t mean it fully represents consumer demands and preferences.
Another way to look at it, taking a really long term perspective. The long-term trend is that we are moving eventually to a science-fiction future where meat is created in ways that involve no cruelty whatsoever to animals.
It is the ethical and technological ultimate destination for the human race. This is a step in that direction, however messy.
The long-term trend is that we are moving eventually to a science-fiction future where meat is created in ways that involve no cruelty whatsoever to animals.
Soylent green, anyone?
Oh, so let's insist that 'however messy' we immediately switch CA to only solar and wind power. That vehicles must also be electric effective immediately. Because that's the ultimate destination yeah?
You're so stuck on ends justifying the means that you can't see the problem at all.
Hey, this is the stinking pile of lefty shit who is fine with murder as a preventative measure if the person murdered might later do something this asshole doesn't like:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
Hey, Jason! Make the world a better place. Fuck off and die.
Slit your wrists, retarded fascist scum.
Great comment. I somehow doubt you will see any ethical consistency in Scalia or Thomas. How they rule is how they want to. They create ad hoc rational after the fact (Order their clerks to come up with something).
The future of humanity depends on treating animals fairly. Mysterious ancient structures, religion and spirituality point out that we're not alone, and knowledge is emerging that they're not friendly. The very fact that we don't respect the rights of our dependents, the animals, gives permission, according to Natural Law, for these as yet unrecogized spiritual or even AI masters to torment humanity. I'm just letting you know in advance.
You're full of shit.
Once SCOTUS overturned Quill and allowed states to force companies with no physical presence to collect sales/use taxes for them--basically forcing companies in other states to be proxy tax collectors with no pay, lots of liability, perhaps criminal liabilities--it seems likely that they will allow California to opt to not allow livestock raised in certain way to not be sold in California.
Maybe we can convince a bunch of other states that they need a law that prohibits, say, union-manufactured products. Or wines grown on vineyards where oak trees should have been growing (and were until they were cut down to plant vineyards). Or use websites run by companies that do not comply with local 1st amendment non-censorship regulations.
Does "dormant commerce clause" jurisprudence that says that nondiscriminatory state laws that have an effect on commerce among the several states infringe on an imputed power of Congress to be the only body that can legislate affecting interstate commerce contribute at all to the jurisprudence that gives the actual commerce clause of the US Constitution ridiculously broad application? If not, then fine, dormant the hell out of the states, to the point where they lose all ability to regulate any commerce within their borders.
Christ, having some standards really triggers dipshit retardlicans who can do nothing but gurgle the cum of corpirations like the the good-for-nothing slaves you are. Right wingers need to be culled
On a jury I might vote to convict someone for cruelty to animals. But I have yet to meet a soi-disant "animal rights" activist able to define and explain human individual rights, which I think are the more pressing and urgent concern.
The "dormant commerce clause" is a judicial invention, not authorized by the language of the Constitution. " A "negative" or "dormant" component to the Commerce Clause has been the subject of scholarly discussion for many decades.[25] Supreme Court Justices Antonin Scalia[26][27] and Clarence Thomas[28] have rejected the notion of a Dormant Commerce Clause. They believe that such a doctrine is inconsistent with an originalist interpretation of the Constitution—so much so that they believe the doctrine is a "judicial fraud".[19]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormant_Commerce_Clause#Criticism_of_the_doctrine Bur hey, judicial activism in the cause of supposed libertarianism is always OK with *Reason*.
I think the pork case is a pretty easy application of the commerce clause.
I do wonder about the foie gras ban though. If it's an absolute ban then the commerce clause wouldn't at all apply. It's one thing if it affects interstate commerce but an outright ban would not. Otherwise would we be using the commerce clause to say that Alabama must allow weed sales from Colorado?
I am sure glad that California taxes the daylights out of its citizens so that it can afford all these lawsuits that it loses. Californians will gladly fork up. All the proposition has to say is "Save the ______" and the tax dollars are forthcoming.
I am not certain about the dormant commerce clause applicability, and I certainly don't think the Supreme court will actually wrestle with law on the issue. The "justices" will simply decide if they want big meat to win, or they actually care about the law. Spoiler alert the lawsuit exists because big meat considers the conservative justices to be "in the bag".
But the idea that California voters can't decide they want the fruits of mass torture excluded from sale in their state, is a sad indictment of the ethical conditions in this country.
Meh, I say let them suffer the consequences. It definitely affects interstate commerce, it also regulates an entire industry.
While I see a possible point where only the top 1% in CA will be able to afford pork, hurting the poor most I also sit and watch how stubborn CA is about it's 'morality' laws.
I agree that the direction we're going will eventually be 'grown' meats and that's fine. Imposing it prior to being available en mass is just foolish. Much like I see this attempt to 'make' electric happen at the federal level which ultimately only serves to hurt the poor in access to cheap vehicles and power sources.
The rich barely feel it because a smaller portion of their income goes to it. But the poor now have an outsized portion of their income taken because it's much more expensive.
So, the suffering of factory farmed animals is not even mentioned? Research it sometime. As a libertarian I could not bring myself to knowingly patronize overt cruelty like that. Some things are more important than economic factors. It's sad that we even need to be prohibited from these practices. A civilized person would not condone it.
What next? You can’t enter the state because the gas in your tank was refined somewhere that didn’t adhere to California’s refinery standards? The solution is to stop sending food to California. More pork for the rest of us. The sane people are leaving anyway. All that are left are the wacky leftist vegan crowd and they don’t buy meat. In the meantime, how long before some enterprising criminal finds out he can make more money smuggling bacon from Arizona than drugs from Mexico? Guarantee the Arizona cops won’t care.