It's the End of the Neoliberal Era, and We Still Don't Know What Neoliberalism Is
Politics is filled with words that mean different things in different mouths, but "neoliberalism" is an especially tangled case.

It wouldn't be entirely accurate to say that no one knows what the hell neoliberal means. Plenty of people are quite sure they know what it means. It's just that they can't agree on a common definition.
Consider two articles published in two different left-wing magazines. The first, written by Megan Erickson for Jacobin, is a critique of "unschooling," an informal, self-directed, countercultural sort of homeschooling that dispenses with tests, lectures, and predetermined curricula. The movement is beloved by many anti-corporate leftists, but Erickson warns them that its "values of freedom, autonomy, and choice are in perfect accordance with market-based 'reforms,' and with the neoliberal vision of society on which they're based."
The other story, published by Dave Zirin in The Nation, denounces the Brazilian authorities for pouring public money into stadiums for the World Cup and the Olympics. Such subsidies are "neoliberal plunder," Zirin declares, because "neoliberalism, at its core, is about transferring wealth out of the public social safety net and into the hands of private capital."
So unschooling is neoliberal even when it is explicitly anti-corporate, because it resembles an idealized free market. And stadium subsidies are neoliberal because they rain wealth on corporations, even if they override market principles in the process. What a capacious word this is.
Now, politics is filled with words that mean different things in different mouths. The world has never come to a complete consensus on the meaning of capitalism, socialism, conservatism, or just plain liberalism, without the neo attached. But neoliberalism is an especially tangled case. It has two entirely separate etymologies, one of which essentially reversed the term's meaning midway through its evolution. On top of that, the word became a popular epithet at a time when hardly any people were using it to describe themselves—that is, at a time when there wasn't much of a constituency for keeping a stable definition in place. It's a bit easier to find self-proclaimed neoliberals today, but they arrived so late that they may have muddied the waters even more.
For all that, there arguably is a coherent way to use the term. But first we need to cut through that historical tangle.
* * * * *
Most histories of the word neoliberal start in Germany between the world wars, with a group of intellectuals who today are usually called the ordoliberals. At the time they often called themselves neoliberals, because they were trying to develop a new alternative to the old laissez faire liberalism of the 19th century. At one famous gathering—the Walter Lippmann Colloquium, held in Paris in 1938—they mixed with, and sometimes clashed with, several prominent laissez faire liberals of the day, including Ludwig von Mises and F.A. Hayek.
This wasn't the first time "neo" and "liberal" (or their counterparts in other languages) had been put together. Notably, Phil Magness of the American Institute for Economic Research (AIER) has pointed to the pejorative use of neoliberalismus and neuliberal among certain socialist and proto-fascist German-language writers in the 1920s. But the ordoliberals are especially significant when you're tracing the term's meaning, because they explicitly rejected the views derided today as "market fundamentalism." (One of them, Alexander Rüstow, once declared that Mises and Hayek "should be put into a museum, conserved in formaldehyde.") A few decades later, by contrast, many writers were using neoliberalism and market fundamentalism interchangeably. That shift is traced in "Neoliberalism: From New Liberal Philosophy to Anti-Liberal Slogan," a 2009 paper by the political scientists Taylor C. Boas and Jordan Gans-Morse.
"The German neoliberals accepted the classical liberal notion that competition among free individuals drives economic prosperity," Boas and Gans-Morse explain. But they "sought to divorce liberalism—the freedom of individuals to compete in the marketplace—from laissez faire—freedom from state intervention." The ordoliberals were a strong influence on West Germany's postwar "social market economy," in which officials abolished food rationing, swept away price controls, lowered taxes and trade barriers, and contracted the money supply, but also embraced interventions intended to foster competition and ensure a safety net.
When those German ideas were exported to Latin America in the 1960s, they were known in Spanish as neoliberalismo. But the word's connotations started to change, Boas and Gans-Morse argue, after some University of Chicago–trained economists convinced the Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet to adopt a number of market-oriented policies in the 1970s: privatizing state enterprises, lowering tariffs, eliminating various economic controls. Pinochet was not liberal at all when it came to human rights and civil liberties—his regime was notorious for censoring, imprisoning, torturing, and killing its enemies. But under the new meaning of neoliberal that began to take hold, that didn't matter; this was a liberalism where non-economic liberties were expendable. The important thing was Pinochet's alleged market fundamentalism.
As it happens, Pinochet was not any kind of market purist. He fixed the price of his country's currency to the U.S. dollar and, when that overvaluation helped bring on a recession, reacted by raising domestic taxes, doubling tariffs, and bailing out the financial sector; that bailout included the temporary nationalization of several banks. And even at the peak of the Chicago crew's influence, his government put a lot of shackles on labor-management negotiations. But we are speaking here of how he was perceived, not how he consistently governed. This post-Pinochet spin on neoliberal, Boas and Gans-Morse conclude, "diffused directly into the English-language study of political economy."
Even as those writers were turning the term inside-out, an American pundit started using the word in yet another way, with an entirely different set of reference points. In the 1970s and '80s, The Washington Monthly and its founder, Charlie Peters, got a reputation for challenging some of the shibboleths of the old New Deal order. Peters himself admired the New Deal, but he was more willing than the standard Democrat to criticize regulatory agencies and organized labor. Seeing similar heterodox attitudes among some of the younger journalists and politicians around him, he recoined the word neoliberal to describe their emerging belief system. This time, the liberalism being updated wasn't the laissez faire liberalism of Adam Smith; it was the welfare-state liberalism of Franklin Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson.
And so, in a 1982 op-ed for The Washington Post, Peters laid out "A Neoliberal's Manifesto." Here he presented the label as a riff on the word neoconservative: "If neo-conservatives are liberals who took a critical look at liberalism and decided to become conservatives," he wrote, "we are liberals who took the same look and decided to retain our goals but to abandon some of our prejudices." Specifically, they "no longer automatically favor unions and big government or oppose the military and big business." They celebrate the entrepreneur, want to means-test entitlement programs, oppose "the kind of economic regulation that discourages healthy competition," and are "against a fat, sloppy, and smug bureaucracy" (but not "against government"). In Peters' telling, they also backed a military draft, no-fault divorce, and a return of the New Deal–era Works Progress Administration. (Like many wishcasting pundits, Peters may have mixed some personal hobbyhorses into his trendspotting.) Their ideas turned up not just in the pages of magazines like The Washington Monthly and The New Republic but on the lips of certain Democratic officials: Sens. Gary Hart of Colorado, Bill Bradley of New Jersey, Paul Tsongas of Massachusetts.
This use of the word caught on in the American press, and many young politicians were tagged with it over the next few years. Randall Rothenberg's 1984 book The Neoliberals roped in two future Democratic presidential nominees, Michael Dukakis and Al Gore. (It also listed Pat Choate, who went on to be Ross Perot's 1996 running mate and a harsh critic of globalization.) At the time, few of the pundits slinging the word around in the U.S. seemed aware of its parallel history in Europe and Latin America. But these neoliberals were skeptical about regulation at the same time that those other neoliberals were taking on parts of the regulatory state, so there was just enough coincidental convergence to confuse everyone. If you're an American pundit of a certain age, it's the Charlie Peters crowd that comes to mind when you hear someone say "neoliberal." And if you're a leftist academic prone to complaining about neoliberalism, there's a good chance you think the Peters crew was market-friendly enough to qualify for the label, even if they weren't exactly market fundamentalists. (Many of them were big on industrial policy, which is the sort of thing conservatives tout today if they want to demonstrate that they're going "beyond neoliberalism.")
Those leftist academics started using neoliberal as an insult more often in the 1990s, and their fondness for the word really took off in the early 21st century. The two most influential figures here were the Marxist geographer David Harvey, whose Brief History of Neoliberalism was published in 2005, and the radical philosopher and historian Michel Foucault, whose 1979 lectures on neoliberalism were published posthumously in 2004 as The Birth of Biopolitics. Confusing matters still more, Harvey and Foucault came to the topic from rather different directions.
For Harvey, the heart of neoliberalism was a reconfiguration of state power, not the anti-statist ideas of people like Hayek, even if the latter helped create "a climate of opinion in support of neoliberalism as the exclusive guarantor of freedom." In practice, he wrote, neoliberalism is marked by partnerships where "the state assumes much of the risk while the private sector takes most of the profits," and neoliberal states will often enhance policing, surveillance, and incarceration "to protect corporate interests and, if necessary, to repress dissent." (He adds: "None of this seems consistent with neoliberal theory.") Foucault, on the other hand, was grappling primarily with neoliberal ideas, both the older German kind and the later Chicago kind. While this partly reflected the fact that he was speaking more than two decades earlier, he also just didn't share Harvey's hostility to his subject—though not everyone citing him noticed that.
This tangled history gives people a lot of ways to talk past each other, so any scholars, journalists, or activists who want to use the word neoliberal carefully should take the time to define exactly what they mean by it. But not everyone is interested in using it carefully. Many have taken to treating it as a broad smear-word for everything they dislike about globalization, markets, or modernity—as Boas and Gans-Morse put it, "a vague term that can mean virtually anything as long as it refers to normatively negative phenomena associated with free markets." When Boas and Gans-Morse examined 148 papers that used the word, they found only four that deployed it in a consistently positive manner.
While a few free market economists, such as Scott Sumner, were willing to call themselves neoliberals, this wasn't very common at the time. In the last decade, though, some pundits, activists, and academics have tried to reclaim the phrase. Some of them are libertarians, but most are either Democrats who have made their peace with market-driven trade and housing policies or ex-libertarians who have made their peace with government intervention. (Reason's Christian Britschgi once cracked that the neoliberal coalition has "a commitment to freedom that's one NBER working paper deep.") Unlike the self-proclaimed neoliberals of the 1980s, they are likely to have read Hayek. How reverently they'll quote him varies widely.
With all these competing uses floating around, the word often seems to lose all coherence. The P2P Foundation, for example, published a post in 2017 that said several cities in Europe have been letting civic groups use municipally owned space "up until the time when real estate companies start re-developing these urban areas." Such temporary measures, the author argued, did not "directly challenge neoliberal real estate speculation." But in The Hague, an artists' and designers' collective tried something more radical: "They started paying rent for the free space, and used the accumulated capital as down payment for rebuying the space from the city." In this way, he wrote, they moved "from tenancy to collective ownership."
So apparently, you can challenge neoliberalism by buying real estate. From the city. A process otherwise known as "privatization." Which, word has it, is extremely neoliberal.
* * * * *
Is there a way to use this word that reflects these contradictory meanings without pretending they're all the same thing? There might be. Neoliberal may not describe a coherent force or worldview, but it's not a bad way to describe a distinct historical era. We need some label for the period, at any rate—and for all its flaws, this one has the advantage of already existing.
The epoch in question began in the 1970s, when a series of economic crises hit: a global oil shock, a fiscal emergency in New York City, a simultaneous surge in unemployment and inflation. That last challenge, called stagflation, wasn't just bad news for people facing higher prices and joblessness at the same time; it was bad news for economic officials, most of whom had long believed that increases in inflation and unemployment were mutually exclusive. The door was open for alternative ideas and institutions.
And so—starting in the '70s, then going into overdrive after the fall of communism—those new ideas and institutions took hold. Or rather, some of them did. That's the thing about historical periods: The people in them don't move in lockstep.
For a comparison, think of the Progressive Era. In the traditional triumphalist take on the first two decades of the 20th century, popular protest pushed reformist politicians into office, where they broke up corporate monopolies and ended some of the business world's worst abuses. A revisionist argument, born in the 1960s New Left and popular among libertarians, takes a darker view: It sees the Progressive Era as an age of technocratic consolidation, marked more by state-corporate cooperation than by reductions in corporate power, with reforms that often did more to stabilize cartels than to dismantle them.
The revisionist argument is true. But so is this: All sorts of progressives were running around in the Progressive Era, with all sorts of different goals. Some of them really were opposed to concentrated power, be it public or private. Some were all for greater concentration of power, as long as they felt enlightened experts were in charge. Some were suspicious of corporate power in theory but fell in behind reforms that ultimately did more to protect that power than to roll it back. And all of them were active at once.
So it was with the Neoliberal Era. Almost every nation has adopted at least some degree of market reform in the last half-century, and that economic liberalization was often joined by advances in free expression, sexual liberty, women's rights, and other forms of personal autonomy. When grumpy conservatives claim that libertarians run America, that's the combination of trends they usually have in mind. But libertarians don't run America, as you can tell by examining the size of the federal budget, the size of the surveillance state, the size of the U.S. military footprint, and the size of the carceral archipelago. Those arms of the authorities may be neoliberal in some David Harvey sense—witness the role that networks of nominally private contractors play in each of them—but they're not anti-statist at all. (Neither are their counterparts in other countries: Since the mid-'70s, public social spending as a share of GDP has increased not just in the United States but in France, the U.K., Japan, and many other rich nations.)
A committed libertarian looking at the Neoliberal Era should feel a lot like a committed socialist looking at the Progressive Era: happy about many changes, unhappy about many others, and disturbed at some of the people adopting their rhetoric. "It was not that liberal ideas were now consciously and openly held and dominant," the libertarian historian Stephen Davies wrote of this period in a 2020 article for AIER. "Rather it was that explicitly and openly anti-liberal ones had been discredited." If the era "can be said to have a philosophy behind it," he added, "it is best described as technocratic managerialism."
A case in point would be the transformation of New York after the city's fiscal crisis of the mid-1970s: The government fired public employees and cut back social programs, and a new Manhattan emerged that was dominated by the FIRE economy (finance, insurance, and real estate). This is often described as a triumph of neoliberalism, yet it was driven not just by those austerity measures but by urban planners, who didn't roll back their interventions so much as they redirected the benefits. So central a role did they play, in fact, that one of the best-known leftist accounts of the transformation, Robert Fitch's The Assassination of New York, includes a plea that readers encountering his attacks on the planners not mistake him for "an advocate of laissez-faire." Meanwhile, the city's budget was climbing again by the mid-'80s.
But just as we shouldn't lose sight of the different flavors of progressives, we need to remember the sheer variety of the neoliberals. To appreciate the ideological diversity of the period, ask yourself: Who enacted the era's market reforms?
Some Democrats adopt a simple partisan narrative focused on President Ronald Reagan and his British counterpart, Margaret Thatcher. That obviously won't do, given the ways Bill Clinton and Tony Blair consolidated the Reagan-Thatcher order. There are somewhat more sophisticated accounts in which right-wing parties launched neoliberalism and then nominally left-wing parties accommodated themselves to the changes. (The socialist writer Nancy Fraser splits neoliberals into "reactionary" and "progressive" camps, with the former looking like Reagan and the latter like Clinton.) This is more defensible, but it still makes the mistake of starting with Reagan and Thatcher. Their predecessors—Jimmy Carter and James Callaghan, respectively—each enacted market reforms too. Carter, who deregulated several industries, was arguably more of a market reformer than Reagan was. And he wasn't an outlier: In many places that made serious steps toward freer markets, from New Zealand to Sweden, left-of-center parties took the lead.
And while Charlie Peters' neoliberals are often seen as precursors to the Clintonian centrists, they had roots in the left-wing "New Politics" movement that fueled the insurgent presidential campaigns of Eugene McCarthy in 1968 and George McGovern in 1972. The McGovernites were anti-war, unimpressed with appeals to law and order, critical of the national security agencies, and supportive of a universal basic income. The Clintonites bombed the Middle East, passed a draconian crime bill, deferred to the national security agencies, and made it harder for poor people to collect welfare benefits. But both broke at key moments with organized labor, were open to deregulation and decentralization, and issued rhetorical jabs at big government. In 1971, the year McGovern entered the presidential race, the National Taxpayers Union had him tied for second in its Senate ratings.
In a new book, The Rise and Fall of the Neoliberal Order (Oxford), the Cambridge historian Gary Gerstle argues that "support for neoliberalism spilled beyond Reagan and his political precincts and into the districts of the New Left," whose "engagement with neoliberal principles can be discerned in the vehemence of its revolt against what it regarded as the over-organization and bureaucratization of American society." Gerstle also sees signs of neoliberalism in that hippie bible the Whole Earth Catalog and in the consumer movement led by Ralph Nader. The Naderites, he stresses, did not want to deregulate everything. But their "determination to strengthen consumers meant that they, too, began to give priority to improving markets. This meant attacking corporate oligopoly on the one hand and excessive and counterproductive government regulation on the other. Their shared goal was to make consumers sovereign in the marketplace." Nader's role in the revolt against the New Deal order is also central to Paul Sabin's recent Public Citizens (W. W. Norton & Co.).
How far left did neoliberalism go? In yet another recent book, The Last Man Takes LSD (Verso), the sociologists Mitchell Dean and Daniel Zamora put Foucault's interest in neoliberal ideas in the political context of 1970s France. Foucault, they note, was attracted to a political current called the Second Left, which offered autogestion—self-management—as an alternative to the centralized statism embraced by the Socialist and Communist parties. These were not squishy centrists, and their views should not be mistaken for those of Nancy Fraser's socially H.R.-compliant, fiscally creditworthy "progressive neoliberals." Their roots were in anarchism, the militant Catholic left, and the revolutionary ferment that swept France in May 1968; their ideal of autogestion had been embraced, though only temporarily, by the radical regime that took power in France's former colony of Algeria. Yet by the end of the '70s, the sociologist George Ross writes, their efforts to exorcise statism from the left were leading them to call "for decentralized bargaining as an approach to social problems of all kinds, for a revitalized 'civil society,' and for recognition of the utility, as a decentralized mechanism, of the market."
They did this just as parts of the French right, led by President Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, were breaking with old Gaullist statist traditions, tentatively turning to more market-oriented policies even as Giscard liberalized divorce, contraception, and abortion laws, rolled back censorship, and adopted immigration and prison reforms. (The president's closest point of intersection with the left was more personal: He had a mistress in common with the exiled Black Panther Eldridge Cleaver.)
To some French radicals, Foucault among them, these parallel developments on the left and right suggested a new political alignment. That's the backdrop for, say, Foucault's discussion of Milton Friedman's negative income tax, in which the government maintains a safety net by simply sending money to citizens whose income falls below a certain level. Giscard flirted with this idea, to Foucault's apparent approval: In one of his lectures on neoliberalism, he notes that the "negative tax," as he calls it, would be "much less bureaucratic and disciplinary" than traditional welfare programs.
And that was before the USSR collapsed, throwing the advocates of state socialism into disarray. After that, the most militant opponents of the institutions that represented David Harvey's neoliberalism sounded a lot like the Second Left. "Since the end of the Cold War, Neoliberalism has become so ideologically dominant that it is no longer clear whether the real Neoliberals are the leaders of the G8 or the people outside in the balaclavas and the overalls," Malcolm Bull wrote in 2001. "Take Ya Basta!, the Italian group formed in 1996 in support of the Chiapas uprising….They are fighting under the slogan 'per la dignità dei popoli contro il neoliberismo,' but their two key political demands, free migration and the right to a guaranteed basic income, are policies that were once largely the preserve of Neoliberal think-tanks in the United States." Bull was being cheeky, but he had a point.
* * * * *
If neoliberal is flexible enough for people to fling it at both the anarchists and the G8, it shouldn't be surprising to see the word applied to both the unschoolers and the World Cup. That's what happens when you're talking about a multifaceted era instead of a unified movement. But eras eventually end, and there are signs that this is happening, or perhaps has happened already. Nostalgia for pre-neoliberal days has been rising on both the left and the right, and countries around the world have been erecting new barriers to trade, travel, and communication.
But the end of the Neoliberal Era doesn't necessarily mean the end of its signature ideas. Progressives did not disappear when the Progressive Era petered out: They spent the 1920s running on fumes, butting heads with each other, and finding homes across the political spectrum. The decade's Republican presidents did not take a machete to the progressives' changes, even if they pruned a few; the last of them, Herbert Hoover, was a product of the progressive moment himself. The New Deal of the 1930s was in many ways a resuscitation of progressive reform. At the same time, some of the New Deal's noisiest opponents were old progressives of the decentralist sort, who distrusted the new concentrations of power and sometimes sounded rather libertarian. When the Progressive Era died, its corpse fertilized the soil for what was to come.
Like the old progressives before them, the old neoliberals will spread out across the spectrum, finding new allies and in many cases new goals. We don't know whether they'll fade away or reconstitute themselves and create something as transformative as the New Deal. And if such a transformation does come, we don't know which side of the old neoliberal order it will reflect. Whichever it is, let's hope we can come up with a better word for it.
This article originally appeared in print under the headline "Neoliberalism, We Hardly Knew Ye."
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Dictatorship, socialism, violence, wokeness, cancel culture.
Not all that hard to define, unless you support a good deal of the nonsense, like Reason does.
Those are more or less Action Words. They associate with govt control or setting dumpster fires.
The Left like to use terms and phrases that have no meaning. Then the terms can mean anything to anyone, a sort of linguistic diversity.
A very large Trojan Horse and for invasive, subversive purposes.
Thats how they subvert and twist language.
Their Sheep, especially the uneducated, find this to be sophisticated and feel ' in the know' and ' connected.'
I.E. " flatten the curve". Thats a meaningless lie, bc there never been a curve TO flatten except the one they fabricated statisitically, they magnified it so much that it magically appeared. 0.00x % doeth not a curve make- its " statistically insignificant."
Like children playing in the mud, they imagine the world as they wish it and thats very psychologically bad.
Agreed. I think we can add the tendency to redefine words, often on the fly, to suit their needs. 'They' are a particularly dishonest lot.
They dont care why the dogs howl just so the Whistle makes them all bark.
Well, if you don't define it at anything lower than the 10K ft level but heap all sorts of hatred on it from a generic sense, then your constituency can rally around your flagpole and salute whatever THEY think you've raised. It's more of a bonding exercise than anything else.
Thus it's easy to say you're for common-sense gun controls or people paying their fair share of taxes. Nobody knows what that even means, so to disagree or challenge it must be that you're against common sense and fair-share, and that makes you sound like... of course, a Nazi. It also makes perfect sense to those whose limits of attention and knowledge are limited to two-syllable slogans.
++++
Why are you here then, my pathetic friend?
To make fun of the likes of you.
Shrike, you never answered.
Do you really not understand bacteria and viruses are different size?
He’ll keep running from that question. Just like he won’t face his pedophilia.
How would you know? For instance, you obviously didn’t even look at this article, or you wouldn’t be talking about traits of American “liberalism” when commenting on an article about “neoliberalism”.
And look who rushes to defend left leaning liberals once again. While claiming he isnt one.
"I call them LALLLs, left and left leaning liberals, and yes, I coined it myself."
Are you allowed to coin phrases in Canada?
If they're considered a "domestic terrorist" they're not even allowed the coins...
Or bits of coins.
Definitely no coin bits.
We're not even allowed to comment here according to noted international jurist, White Mike.
https://reason.com/2020/12/09/nevada-supreme-court-becomes-the-latest-to-reject-republican-election-fraud-lawsuit/#comment-8625842
Neoliberals, paleoliberals, classical liberals, jazz liberals, blue liberals, late Cretaceous liberals, Martian liberals, martial liberals, material liberals, immaterial liberals, materialistic liberals, maternal liberals, liberal liberals, illiberal liberals, green liberals, liberals, plain liberals, liberal lamas, liberal llamas, and all other liberals, liberals, liberals... They are all LIBERALS!!! Ergo, they ALL are EVIL, vote-stealing Demon-Crap WITCHES, and they all need to be BURNED!!! (And then we can steal their property! And then... The oral sex!!!)
There, now, all of ye orange-phallus-licking troglodytes, I have done yer jobs for ye! You may take the rest of the day off!
You're welcome!
You really want to nibble Trump's testicles, don't you? That Big Daddy figure you love to hate.
You could NOT bring Yourself to taking me up on my VERY kind offer to take the rest of the day off! You just HAVE to sit by Your keyboard and thread-shit all day, Oh Perfect One!
Try GETTING A LIFE sometime! It leads to more happiness, actually!
C'mon, this is Sqrlsy, I think it's obvious he'd much rather tongue Trump's chocolate starfish. Sqrsly wants soft-serve Trump!
Actual liberals aren’t evil at all. Conservatives and libertarians are usually classical liberals.
Unfortunately, evil totalitarian pricks like you are appropriating and deliberately misusing the word. You hate liberalism and want to destroy it.
They call their money Loonies. That's a term coined to describe a coin. Seems like they can be pretty good about it.
We’ve been over this before. It’s not so much coining a phrase as creating an acronym. I think Terrance and Phillip are in charge of it.
But they do those things with supposed good intentions so it is fine.
Socialism? The defining trait of a neoliberal is that they support capitalism.
LOL
That would be classical liberal
Neoliberals do nothing to support capitalism and do everything to inch towards collectivism and authoritarian government. They just say they are capitalists because "socialist" has carried such a negative connotation for so long that they just can't claim the label and know they'd lose a significant portion of their constituency if they did. The term "capitalism" is merely a personal security blanket, not an ideal.
youre on a roll tonite!
Foucault deserves a new circle of hell for advancing the cultural hegemony of the Left by expanding the arsenal of semantic aggression.
Forge enough symbols, however meaningless , and you can prevail over history in controversy not by burying the deconstructed past, but replacing it in imaginations forged by social media that fear more for their electronic reputations than their liberty.
^ That ^ x ...
sorry, cant use numbers. That offends the Left.
ps someone left the Sock Drawer open again..
Please nail it shut.
Yeah. I didn't read much past the first couple paragraphs. Seemed like a lot of words to say, "'Liberals' who value socialism will lie and willfully misunderstand the difference between corporations, capital, and markets."
When a word means different things in the same context, it’s meaningless.
You mean like when Joseph Goebbels would repeat the same contradiction of reality over and over until people accepted it as the truth?
What was the pecky term for that? Oh yeah! The Big Lie!
Would Joseph Geobbels be a Criminal Against Humanity if you succeeded in the criminalization of lying?
Fuck off, Nazi!
Correction: Pesky, though he and you both are kinda pecker-y,
Like when Jews falsely claimed holocausts 166 times between 1900 and 1945, like wastes of skin begging for money.
I bet you’re really salivating at the thought of the Iranians nuking Israel, aren’t you?
What’s that got to do with lying satanic Jews who have done anything to serve their selfish interests?
My interest is in sharing the truth. That’s a fate worse than death to a liar.
Aren’t you a holocaust denier?
Does that make you a Nazi, an anti Semite? Do you want Jews to die for their crimes?
I mean unless you believe the Jewish leaders and media who claimed no less than 166 times between 1900 and 1945 that there were so many holocausts of 6 million Jews…YOU ARE DENYING JEWISH CLAIMS OF HOLOCAUSTS OF 6 MILLION JEWS.
Hahaha
http://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/10/31/repeated-claims-of-6-million-jews-dying-decades-before-hitler-vs-ignored-soviet-death-camp-tolls/
Nazis, all of Germany and many other nations have had problems with Jews because of the Jews own actions.
Prior to WW1 Jews were better treated in Germany than anywhere else in Europe. Until they stabbed Germany in the back by coercing the anti war US to enter the war in exchange for a deal with Britain, the Balfour declaration, to steal Palestine.
The resulting post war years of suffering by the German people under the treaty of Versailles and the Weimar Republic made Germans recognize that its unwise to trust Jews to whom lying is religion.
In 1932 the Nazi party was democratically elected and globally Jews declared war on Germany. Jewish leaders promised to bring another world war to Germany and they forced Germany into it through global boycotts against all German trade. Instead of surrendering, Germany invaded Poland just as Jews hoped they would.
After the war, Jews declared the apartheid state of Israel beginning the last 74 years of Middle East conflict, terrorism, suffering and war.
Judaism is a religion, not a race.
The Jewish religion, their deepest beliefs, are based on lies. Their holiest prayer on their holiest day is clearly a plan to lie. The faithful can lie for another year with the comfort and blessing of their religion. If Satan is the father of lies, members of the Jewish religion are his faithful children.
Here is the Kol Nidre text. The holiest Jewish prayer on the holiest Jewish day.
“All vows, obligations, oaths, and anathemas [curses]which we may vow, or swear, or pledge, or whereby we may be bound, from this Day of Atonement until the next we do repent. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect: they shall not bind us nor have any power over us. The vows shall not be reckoned vows; the obligations shall not be obligations; nor the oaths be oaths.”
Jews are proud of killing God in the Christian bible. It is symbolic of the triumph of lies over truth. But they are too stupid to realize that truth is reality and it can’t be killed or vanquished. Maybe if they had coerced Jesus to sign an NDA, lie, but they didn’t.
Drop dead.
Uh no.
My death wouldn’t change reality, truth.
You are stupid, but the reason you can’t refute ANYTHING I say is because what I say is true.
You death would certainly change the reality of your wasting of our precious, precious oxygen. Go taste a JHP.
It’s great to be alive and sharing the truth that you can never refute and fear worse than death.
Cheers.
Hmmmm.....Catholics can go to Confession whenever they want. They don't have to wait a year. Say a few prayers of penance and all is forgiven.
Fundamental to a catholic confession is the recognition of past wrongdoing and the desire not to do wrong again.
In the Jewish Kol Nidre, the faithful express neither the recognition of wrongdoing nor the desire not to lie again. On the contrary it is simply the expression of the expectation of not being held responsible for their actions in any way for the coming year.
The two faiths are fundamentally different.
A real God couldn't be killed.
Fuck off, Nazi!
I said Jews are stupid.
M8sek prolly regrets he couldn't do it himself.
Here's a little ditty dedicated to Misek, with deep apologies to Walker Hayes:
Nazi-Like
Heil!
Misek's Frau ist wonderbar und intelligent.
She likes ze Oom-Pa-Pa for entertainment!
Down at ze Sportzplast, can't keep her off he!
She offers her Sudatenland und says "Adolf me!"
But every now und then Misek does a raid,
He gives his little liebshen ein booty upgrade!
Heil! Heil!
'Cause he's Nazi Like
Big rocks on Krystallnacht,
Through ze Jewish pawn shop with ze Mauser in hock,
And ze gasoline-fueled flambé
For ze crossdressers over at ze Cabaret!
Volkish like Löwenbrau in ze ammo box,
Going *Clink! Danka!-Danka! in ze bottom of ze Tank-ah!
Gotterdammerung-ah! He's a Fatherland delight! Heil!
Zatz how he do, how he do! Nazi-Like!
Heil!
Nazi-Like!
Heil!
Nazi-Like!
Heil!
Nazi-Like!
Heil!
Misek needs no Hooptie or Oldsmobile too!
He like ze Volkswagon und ze Panzerwagon too!
Don't need no Kaiser's Junker Mansion!
He's Über basement-dwelling in ze bunker wankin'!
But every now and then Misek does a raid,
He gives his little liebshen ein booty upgrade! Heil! Heil!
Cause he's Nazi Like
Big rocks on Krystallnacht,
Through the Jewish pawn shop with your Mauser in hock,
Und the gasoline-fueled flambé
For ze crossdressers over in ze Cabaret!
Volkish like Löwenbrau in ze ammo box,
Going *Clink!* Danka!-Danka! in ze bottom of ze Tank-ah!
Gotterdammerung-ah! He's a Fatherland delight! Heil!
Zatz how he do, how he do! Nazi-Like!
Misek's new SS swag has no holes in it!
Worthless Deutschemarks in pocket without Skoal with it!
Misek's probably keeping a few little Enigma secrets,
Just until Alan Turing goes and decrypts it,
Und instead of Misek's Frau getting love play,
Misek's mit Rohm and boys in the SA! Heil! Heil!
Cause he's Nazi Like
Big rocks on Krystallnacht,
Through ze Jewish pawn shop with ze Mauser in hock,
Und ze gasoline-fueled flambé
For the ze crossdressers over in ze Cabaret!
Volkish like Löwenbrau in ze ammo box,
Going *Clink!* Danka!-Danka! in ze bottom of ze Tank-ah!
Gotterdammerung-ah! He's a Fatherland delight! Heil!
Zatz how he do, how he do! Nazi-Like!
I'll be here all week! Try the Kosher Wienerschnitzel! 🙂
Throwing in the towel?
Yiddish rap isn’t my bag.
Intellectuals and journalists tend to use words to describe themselves based on what they believe and why, where bureaucrats and politicians tend to use these words to give whatever they want to do some intellectual justification--regardless of whether that's the real reason they want to do it.
I know there was a real intellectual movement called neoconservatism, but whether George W. Bush and Dick Cheney really wanted to invade and occupy Iraq for the neoconservative reasons the intellectuals who called themselves neoconservatives gave is another question. I think they wanted to depose Saddam Hussein, and so they gravitated to a preexisting intellectual movement to justify that decision. Democrats notoriously do things that don't make sense economically but make sense politically. The primary purpose of politicians isn't to be intellectually rigorous. It's to maintain public support.
The primary reason politicians like Manchin want an infrastructure bill is because the unions that support him want the government to spend a lot of money doing things that require their union's labor. If there is some intellectual movement politicians and pundits can use to justify it, they will, but ultimately, that's just marketing--not the real intellectual basis.
The real reason the progressives in the House pushed the Green New Deal and entitlement spending in Build Back Better had nothing to do with the science of climate change or an intellectual commitment to socialism. It was about shoveling money to important constituencies. Manchin didn't oppose it for intellectual reasons or because of his concerns about inflation. He opposed Build Back Better because the voters in West Virginia opposed it. He's just rationalizing what he's already decided to do for other reasons.
One of the reasons terms like "neoliberalism" are confusing is because they're used as rationalizations for what people have already decided to do for other reasons. If Donald Trump negotiates with the Taliban to get us out of Afghanistan because the benefits of being there are insufficient to justify the costs, that doesn't make him a principled libertarian--even if libertarian intellectuals and ideologically libertarian journalists should support him on that issue. That is a big source of confusion with these terms.
The ultimate example of this may be Nixon's statement, when he broke the gold standard in the midst of a budgetary crisis, with the statement, "Well I guess we're Keynesians now". His decision had nothing to do with an intellectual commitment to Keynesian economics, but then his former commitment to balanced budgets wasn't about his own ideology either. These terms are used to justify things politicians already want to do for other reasons.
It is entirely possible to be motivated by a mix of good intentions and selfish intentions, especially when they are not in conflict. Meaning, for example, progressives can genuinely believe they are fighting climate degradation and enjoy the shoveling of money.
I’m using logic here, so I’m sure you will understand my point.
Well someone is definitely on the rag and looking to start a fight with Ken over nothing.
I call it obsession:
"Mike Laursen
September.18.2021 at 11:38 am
SQRLSY, can you cover for me today? In a typical day, I usually post a comment or two pointing out logical flaws, contradictions and partisanship in Ken’s essays, which he regards as examples of flawless logical thinking"
Intentions don't matter dumbass. Actions do. Dictators all claim to have good intentions. The moral judgements belong on actions.
Progressives are really stupid that way. They'd destroy our economy with good intentions if we let them. Plenty of progressives wanted to stay in Afghanistan until the Taliban
became feministguaranteed the rights of women.https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/10/politics/afghan-womens-rights-us-withdrawal/index.html
The war of good intentions never ends. Do they not teach "Heart of Darkness" in schools anymore?
The "heart of darkness" belonged to the bleeding heart "liberals" who sent troops to Africa to stamp out the slave trade at its source--and only ended up creating conditions that were sometimes as bad or worse than slavery. The road to hell is paved with the good intentions of people who think their intentions matter. They're the same shit for brains that invaded our African-American communities with the police in the name of stamping out the drug trade. Good intentioned progressives are America's most horrible people, and persuading the rest of America to ignore good intentioned progressives is the best thing we can do to save the downtrodden.
Progressives have no good intentions
If their intention is to violate people's rights in the name of some greater good, then, yeah, I agree--their good intentions don't justify evil, and willfully violating people's rights is the definition of evil.
Morality arises naturally as an aspect of agency. We can't talk about what he person should do unless they have the ability to make a choice. A comet colliding with the earth can killing billions of people isn't behaving immorally--because comets can't make choices.
When a progressive willfully chooses to use the government to violate our freedom of speech, the inability to make choices isn't an excuse. Because progressives have agency, their choice to use the government to violate our rights--by itself--is evil, and their rationalizations are beside the point.
I should point out that rights arise naturally from agency, as well. A right is the obligation to respect other people's choices, and that obligation arises from the ability to make a choice. The government is not obligated to respect the rights of an incoming comet because comets can't make choices. That doesn't apply to progressives when they willfully choose to use the government to violate our rights to free speech. We're perfectly capable of making choices about what we say, and so the government is obligated to respect those choices.
Progressives effectively treat us like inanimate objects because they hold their fellow Americans in contempt. Treating people like objects without rights is an excellent definition of evil. Yes, progressives are evil.
As I've said before, good intentions don't excuse stupid public policy decisions.
But it is still very important to acknowledge good intentions, for several reasons:
- Supposedly, the goal of political debate is not to win debates and own the progressives, but to convince them to change their public policy ideas and eventually live in a better-governed nation-state/world. If you acknowledge their good intentions, that gives you a starting place to engage them in CONSTRUCTIVE debate.
- Demonizing a sizable chunk of your fellow Americans (or Canadians) is going to lead where demonization typically leads: civil war, persecution, general misery instead of general welfare.
I can't imagine what good you think you are accomplishing, Ken, with your "progressives are America's most horrible people" mantra. It only highlights your immaturity.
Stfu Dee.
Intentions are subjective measurements dummy. Choosing to take from someone working to feed the poor can be considered good intentions by some and evil ones by others.
You use good intentions to rationalize bad actions like most leftists do. You never give credence to the moral arguments against theft from others as a grand example.
If progressives don’t want to be viewed thst way, they could always try NOT nannying us to death.
Calling themselves "neoliberal" is a cover for Democrat politicians to embrace militarism and corporatism while insisting they are still liberals so their base doesn't dessert.
Just like calling themselves "neoconservative" was a cover for Republican politicians to embrace military adventurism and increased spending on Medicare and education and still insist they were conservative so the base would stay on board.
Correct.
Neoliberal and neoconservative are the same.
They stand for globalist centralized authority and high regulations to create social controls from the top down.
Both are euphemisms for "neofeudalism"
They wanted to depose Saddam Hussein for their own reasons. They were willing to invent facts to support that--and compared to that, embracing the intellectuals who supported that was a breeze. I have no doubt but that public intellectuals like Christopher Hitchens supported the neocons for what he thought were noble and intellectual reasons. George W. Bush wasn't operating on that level. He wanted to take our Saddam Hussein, so he embraced people who supported that decision.
The people who are most upset about the environmentalism being used by phones as a poor excuse for socialism are the environmentalists. There are real public intellectuals out there who genuinely care about the environment from a philosophically ethical, rational, and even religious perspectives on ecology.
The reason Alexandia Ocasio-Cortez is pushing the Green New Deal has almost nothing to do with that. The reason Bernie Sanders is pushing the Green New Deal isn't because of his personal commitment to the philosophy of deep ecology. It's because they're socialists. If Liz Warren is pushing the Green New Deal, it's a function of her lust for power.
These terms have meaning, but those meanings become convoluted when different people who care about the terms use them to support other people, who probably don't know much or care much about the reasons various intellectuals are supporting what they want to do--so long as they continue to support them. The left, especially, loves having public intellectuals who will suport whatever it is they want to do at the moment--which is why people like Krugman make fools of themselves at The New York Times.
Joe Biden appears to have wanted to leave his mark on American history, so that people generations from now would look back on him the way they look back on historical figures that changed things--like FDR with the New Deal and Johnson with the Great Society. He's not a socialist. He's not an environmentalist. He pushed that shit for his own personal and political reasons.
No one calls themselves a neoliberal you moron and who knows who you mean in your fevered musings.
Economists call analyzing the economic self interest of politicians “public choice theory”. It’s a good field to read up on.
Wow, that was a lot of words to say "Humpty Dumpty was right".
Keep it simple; does a political movement support individual freedom, or government control?
I know, right? When I play chess I hate having to memorize all the different ways the pieces move.
Brevity is valuable skill for life is short and time is precious.
This is Peak Reason- thousands of wasted words blathering because an obscure nitwit showed their total lack of intellect on an obscure forum.
So let’s make that our focus, instead of Canada and Australia becoming Dystopian Fascist hellholes, and Silicon Valley, Wall St, and the Democrat Party combining to end our democracy as well.
To be fair, the long form posts like this are usually ripped from their upcoming print issues.
Especially posted on or just before the weekend.
Didn’t you know that quantity is quality?
Joe Biden, the overwhelming choice of Koch-funded libertarians, could be described as a neoliberal. His foreign policy largely overlaps with that of the neoconservatives, explaining why so many of them have returned to the Democratic Party. And on domestic issues he pretends to care about the middle class and poor — even as he governs for the benefit of billionaires.
#LibertariansForNeoliberalism
#(AndNeoconservatism)
#(BasicallyAnythingExceptPopulism)
You're like if Colbert was retarded.
Which part do you disagree with?
The part about neocons (Bill Kristol, David Frum, Jennifer Rubin, Max Boot, Tom Nichols) now supporting Democrats? Or the part about Democrats being the party of billionaires?
#OpenToConstructiveCriticism
Probably the part where Democrats applauded Cheney and Bush for bashing Trump.
So much jealousy since you fail with your parodies.
Queenie doesn’t like having her face shoved in all of that shit.
??? But Colbert is retarded.
Queenie musta meant to say “funny” instead of retarded.
Clobert isn't?
You're like if Colbert was retarded.
This statement has a very distinct feeling of an angsty teen shouting "Your Mom!" a their retarded brother's reflection.
You forgot to mention that #PopulismIsAThreatToDemocracy
Denis Pushilin, head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic Saturday ordered the general mobilization of men aged between 18 and 55 years old, including reservists, telling them to report to enlistment offices.
“I appeal to all the men of the Republic, who are able to hold weapons in their hands, [to] stand up for their families, their children, wives, mothers,” Mr. Pushilin said in a televised address. “Together we will achieve the desired and necessary victory for all of us.”
Leonid Pasechnik, leader of the Luhansk separatist statelet of Ukraine’s Donbas region Saturday issued a similar order.
The announcements came a day after the Donbas leaders urged civilians to evacuate immediately to Russia"
"Breakaway Regions in Ukraine Issue Call-Up Orders as Russia Tests Missiles"
----WSJ
https://www.wsj.com/articles/breakaway-regions-in-ukraine-issue-call-up-orders-as-russia-tests-missiles-11645277438?
If the Biden administration gave Germany a pass on Nord Stream 2 for ideological reasons, then they're a bunch of idiots. This is the flip side of my comment above. The decisions we make have real consequences in the real world. If ideology blinds us to the likely real world consequences of our choices, it isn't the fault of the ideology. The real world consequences of Nord Stream 2 were not only foreseeable but also foreseen. If the Biden administration didn't see them, that's their fault. That's just bad leadership.
" If the Biden administration didn't see them"
The choices made to construct the pipeline were taken in Europe long before Biden became president.
Now do Keystone XL.
American pipeline, American president.
International pipeline, American president.
My point exactly.
Keystone was international too.
Biden is president of the US. He's not president of Germany, Russia, or any of the nations that lie between. Why the pretense? Why do you pretend not to understand? Who is the audience you are playing to?
But US taxpayers pay massive amounts of money to defend Germany. We can’t tell Germany what to do, but we can pull out our troops and kick them out of NATO for their irresponsible behavior.
"but we can pull out our troops and kick them out of NATO for their irresponsible behavior."
Why? You can't seriously think that burning Russian gas is less 'responsible' than burning Saudi gas. And the US taxpayers are delusional fools, believing that spending massive amounts of money is protecting Germany from Russian invasion.
Hahahahahahaha
Laugh while you can, monkey boy.
Yes, and the US should respond correctly, like by kicking Germany out of NATO.
Who gives a fuck about NATO? It's a reminder of the days of the cold war when Americans could dictate to Europe. Today's Russia is about buffer zones, border adjustments and defending the Orthodox faith. China is where the action is and her designs encompass the entire planet and beyond.
That must be why they're sending in Harris, to improve their leadership.
They have no idea what they're doing.
Ever see a sci-fi movie or series where someone figures out how to pilot an alien spacecraft by just randomly pushing buttons?
The Biden administration must believe that's possible, because that's how they're running our foreign policy.
Unfortunately, the Republicans are just as bad. Trump foreign policy was basically run by a man child distracted by shiny objects, who let concern for his re-election and ego take precedence over following through on diplomatic initiatives.
Well that child got the UAE and the Saudis to acknowledge that jews have the right to exist, and got Iran to back down. So can we put the children back in charge?
While Biden has made the world tangibly more dangerous in less than a year.
When I wrote “Republicans are just as bad” that implies that I think Democrats are bad at foreign policy, too.
Rev, what exactly did Trump get Iran to back down on?
Until Islam is no longer the official State religion of the UAE and Saudi Arabia, I wouldn't believe The Abraham Accords for one minute. I act on the presumption that this is just Hudna (a temporary truce with the Unbeliever until the Believers can regroup and re-arm to fight again.)
LOL
All your world views are crashing around you.
Are you just ignorant or are you really this dishonest?
Ignorant and that dishonest.
You literally can’t stop yourself, can you?
Seek help. No, seriously, seek help.
Ever see a sci-fi movie or series where someone figures out how to pilot an alien spacecraft by just randomly pushing buttons?
The Biden administration must believe that's possible, because that's how they're running our foreign policy.
Except in this case, the would-be spacecraft pilot is a lawyer who got onto the team on her back and into the pilot's seat by (accurately) calling the 'hero' a busing advocate.
It's like watching Guardians Of The Galaxy except Groot is the leader, Gamora is in charge of the diplomatic missions, Drax is in charge of the tactical missions, and Rocket is charge of the crew's mental and physical health. It's almost like the writer isn't crafting a story is about a rag tag team of misfits that come together to do the right thing as much as it is a portent tale about a group of utterly dysfunctional and misapplied failures.
To be fair, it may work for alien space craft. We try to make technology foolproof and aliens are probably better at it than we are.
Now that it looks like the invasion of Ukraine is only a matter of time, it'll be interesting to see whether Biden can follow through on his threat to shut down Nord Stream 2 when Putin invades.
"If Russia invades Ukraine, there will be no Nord Stream 2, Biden says"
----Reuters, February 7, 2022
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/if-russia-invades-ukraine-there-will-be-no-nord-stream-2-biden-says-2022-02-07/
That was the threat. I guess we'll see whether it was another one of those progressive red lines, like Obama's red line in Syria.
Empty threats are not a good look for an American president.
"Former Secretary of State John Kerry says he was unable to persuade then-President Barack Obama that Syrian President Bashar al-Assad "needed to be taught a lesson" for violating ceasefires and using chemical weapons on his own people during Kerry's time in office, telling "Face the Nation" that the U.S. ultimately "paid a price" for inaction.
"We paid a price for the way it played out without the red line being enforced by the bombing," said Kerry, referring to Mr. Obama's warning in 2012 that use of chemical weapons would prompt a military response by the U.S., a threat that was not enforced a year later. Kerry explained his thinking at the time.
----CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-kerry-face-the-nation-u-s-paid-a-price-for-not-enforcing-obamas-red-line-in-syria/
He probably thinks he can bomb an undersea pipeline.
Speaking of neoliberals, America's old friend Hillary "Hildog" Clinton is already beginning to lay the groundwork to run for president in 2024, if you can believe it.
https://nypost.com/2022/02/17/hillary-clinton-the-definition-of-insanity/
If she really does run, it's pretty much a guarantee that Sleepy Joe will announce his retirement, assuming of course that he's even still alive. Nobody scares the absolute living shit out of that pathetic addlepated old man like the Clintons do.
Biden might name Hillary Vice President and resign after the midterms. It might be hard to find someone who would want to walk into that situation--with a Republican Congress stacked against the president. Hillary Clinton is power hungry enough to want that job. She'll walk in the door under the threat of impeachment, but she doesn't care.
Isn't that like dealing with a Sicilian when death is on the line?
Your fantasy life is very rich.
Speaking of groundwork, when will SHE be in the ground?
I'm going to go invest in earplugs futures just in case we end up with Hillary versus Donald 2024.
Nobody scares the absolute living shit out of that pathetic addlepated old man like the Clintons do.
Which, for his part, is actually dimly intelligent. Not only could they make his timely death seem even more timely, if I had to pick a contemporary American dynasty that I believed would grind axes against generations of completely uninvolved descendants for no particular reason at all, it would be the Clintons.
Biden doesn’t have any uninvolved descendants.
Well, hell. Joe Biden is sending Kamala Harris to Europe to head off war. I’m sure she’ll exhibit her usual competence.
I wonder what she could do to placate Putin.
Nothing. Putin isn't some cheap American mayor, he is actually wealthy and powerful; Putin can get as many women with style, class, intelligence, and "skills" as he wants to.
Most Russian women > Kamala
I guess if KGB-style thuggery is a "skill," Putin can get anything and anyone he wants.
I guess your reading comprehension is lacking.
All druish girls are attracted to money and power, and I have both
Funny, do they look druish? 😉
And isn't the Holy Trinity of Gangsta-Boo-dom Money, Power, and Respect?
No, your modifiers are all over the place in that sentence.
Nevertheless, Putin is a KGB thug who can never change his stripes.
Indeed, he is a wealthy and powerful KGB thug, and as such, he demands high quality than Harris, and he can get it.
I'm sorry if a sentence structure that's beyond elementary school reading level confuses you.
Ah, but the way that sentence was writen, "style, class, intelligence, and skills" could have applied to either Putin or the women.
Please do not take Reason's present crop of writers as a model for composiition.
As for Putin, he needs to be gored by the Mad Cows that Kute Kackling Kammy obviously partook of to give her the perpetual giggles.
All of those adjectives belong to the noun in the sentence that precedes the with. Which is “women”.
But "Putin" is a noun that procedes the adjectives too, hence the ambiguity of the modifiers.
Not under any reasonable reading. You really are an idiot.
An unambiguous way to put it would be:
Women with style, class, intelligence, and "skills" can belong to Putin if he so desires.
Besides, why are you preoccupied with Putin's game? As far I'm concerned, Putin can stick his dick in an electric socket.
In all seriousness, though, if Kamala Harris could stop Putin by such an act as your joke about, I would commend her for doing it. There were women in World War II who engaged in such acts heroically to do their part to spy on the Nazis.
Harris is more likely to kill Putin with projectile cackling.
knob- job?
Hag-job.
So, time to start building a bomb shelter?
When's not a good time to do that if you can? Just use it as an arcade/pool hall/gamers room in good times.
Republicans at the NY Post pounce on Biden's decision to send the tough negotiator to Europe:
https://nypost.com/2022/02/17/why-oh-why-is-biden-sending-kamala-harris-to-stop-putin-invading-ukraine/
But Harris has next to no diplomatic experience, beyond her (laughable) mission to address the “root causes” of the migrant flood at the southern border. The result of that? More illegal immigrants (nearly 2 million) than ever crossed the border last year. What sort of decision-making is going on in the myopic White House bubble? Is this an attempt to burnish her standing on the world stage and reset her disastrous image at home? If so, it is a reckless and risky way to pursue selfish political ends. Asked tough questions, she often simply cackles. When NBC’s Lester Holt last year asked her why she hadn’t visited the border, she pleaded that she’d never been to Europe either. Well, Biden has fixed that now.
Yes, I read that editorial this morning. They are not wrong.
Nobody cares what you think.
Harris's infamous cackle will grind down Putin's will. He'll give in just not to have to hear it anymore. That's what makes Harris Biden's secret weapon.
Or reach out and snap her neck. As she is so…….. dammit, it’s nine letter word I can’t quite recall.
A win for Biden and America either way.
She is more qualified for that Ukrainian job than Hunter was for his.
Dude, the previous president wrote love letters to a boyish and murderous dictator while forgiveing Russian murder because hey, we did it too. The previous VP came up from being a radio talk show host.
Are you kidding me?
Whatever Trump did, it was working. If it takes flattering dictators to avoid a war, who cares.
Biden’s foreign policy has been one disaster after another. That’s because Biden has no idea how to negotiate. He is a moron appealing to moronic voters.
"Neoliberal" is a pejorative naive progressives tagged Bill Clinton with for supporting NAFTA and killing the antiquated portion of Glass-Steagall that prohibited commercial banks from pursuing combinations with investment banks. Progressives hate Bill Clinton.
Of course the Financial Collapse wasn't caused by the likes of Citibank (who combined with Travelers because of Clinton) but moreso by shady mortgage companies like Countrywide who had no credit standards because houses only went up in value until 2007.
Help me out here, Mr. Buttplug. Have we already established 538 is now a wingnut.com operation? Check out this anti-Biden misinformation: Biden's approval rating now as low as Trump's at this stage of his presidency
That's literally impossible. You spent Drumpf's entire Presidency describing how terrible the economy was. And you've spent Biden's entire Presidency raving about the economy (rig count is up). That alone should make Biden's approval at least double Drumpf's. Then when you factor in Biden's successful management of foreign policy and the pandemic, I bet his real approval is around 90%.
Do you think Putin is blackmailing Nate Cohn with a pee tape?
#DefendBidenAtAllCosts
See? You can't keep character because you have none.
Why is Nate Cohn writing obvious lies about Biden's approval rating? There's no way it could be that low when he's doing such a terrific job.
You forgot to switch socks again, Shrike.
Countrywide had a very robust Community Reinvestment Act program, where they would bundle mortgages and sell them to banks under the CRA so that said banks could get CRA credit.
But to listen to the misinformation from the media and the likes of Paul Krugman, the CRA had nothing to do with mortgage companies.
No one has to lie when they’re not covering things up.
Republican FDIC Chair Sheila Bair used stats to prove that CRA loans outperformed other loans. And some overwhelming number of foreclosures were in just four states - FL, CA, AZ, NV in new housing developments outside the CRA.
“Point in fact,” she said, “only one in four higher-priced first mortgage loans were made by CRA-covered banks during the hey-day years of subprime mortgage lending. The rest were made by private independent mortgage companies and large bank affiliates not covered by CRA rules.”
https://delong.typepad.com/egregious_moderation/2008/12/barry-ritholtz.html
And “Let me ask you,” she proceeded. “Where in the CRA does it say to make loans to people who can’t afford to repay? Nowhere.” The facts are simple, Bair said. The lending practices that are causing problems today were driven by a desire for more market share and revenue growth, not because the government encouraged certain lending practices.
CRA was a scapegoat.
You're believing the same misinformation right now.
You don't have to hide from the facts behind misleading communication when you have nothing to hide.
I believe the data instead of conservative myth.
The researchers found that "loans made by lenders regulated under the CRA were significantly less likely to go into foreclosure than those made by IMCs." Even more important, "loans made by CRA lenders within their assessment areas, which receive the greatest regulatory scrutiny under the CRA, are significantly less likely to be in foreclosure than those made by independent mortgage companies that do not receive the same regulatory oversight."
https://prospect.org/infrastructure/blame-community-reinvestment-act/
The number of CRA loans was just too small to cause a crisis.
“loans made by lenders regulated under the CRA”
Loans made.
They’re only counting loans banks made directly. They’re not counting loans Countrywide made, bundled up, and sold to CRA banks for CRA credit.
You’re just repeating the same misinformation talking point over and over again.
This is getting tedious. No repeat yourself or run along.
Basically, the banking system outsourced their dirty work to mortgage companies so they could claim their hands were clean when it all came crashing down. And you’re running cover for them.
Lehman, Bear, Merrill Lynch were not CRA banks. They weren't even banks since they took no deposits.
The purpose of the CRA was to stop deposit banks from redlining since deposit banks have government advantages like overnight loans.
You have no data.
You just assert something you want to believe.
Your own posts say “loans made”, explicitly ignoring all of the loans Countrywide’s CRA program made and generated for CRA banks for CRA credit.
I can show you why you’re wrong, but I can’t make you understand it.
Three Ways The CRA Pushed Countrywide To Lower Lending Standards
But as banks expanded their deposit bases and other businesses, they often found that they were at risk of regulators discovering they had fallen behind in making CRA loans.
One way of addressing this problem was buying the loans in the secondary market. Mortgage companies like Countrywide began to serve this entirely artificial demand for CRA loans. Countrywide marketed its loans directly to banks as a way for them to meet CRA obligations.
https://www.businessinsider.com/three-ways-the-cra-pushed-countrywide-to-lower-lending-standards-2009-6
Do you have anything other than misleading “the banks didn’t make the bad CRA loans themselves!” links?
“ It is highly misleading to claim that just because mortgage companies were not technically under the CRA that they were not required by regulators to meet similar tests. In fact, regulators threatened that if the mortgage companies didn't step up to the plate by relaxing lending standards they would be brought under the CRA umbrella and required to do so.”
You have to stop believing that you really understand a system and what’s going on with it based solely on the sound by talking points from partisans. If you want to be relevant, that is.
Now, run along.
He will pretend he never saw this response and repeat the CRA myths again.
I’m not posting for him.
You have no data.
The data shows CRA loans outperformed independent loans.
End of discussion. You lose this case without data.
Seriously, do you read at a 3rd grade level? Or just ignore anything not endorsed by the atlantic or wapo?
I don't expect you to ever concede to facts. Your data has huge holes in it that you refuse to deal with. But it looks like reality is clear.
Anyway, you’re providing me with the data I need:
“Of course the Financial Collapse wasn't caused by the likes of Citibank (who combined with Travelers because of Clinton) but moreso by shady mortgage companies like Countrywide who had no credit standards”
“Countrywide marketed its loans directly to banks as a way for them to meet CRA obligations.”
Do you want to take the first data point back?
You're correct Sarah and this time "It's the n....ers fault" doesn't fly.
"The Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 is a favorite boogeyman for some, despite the numbers that so easily disprove it as a cause.It is a statistical invalid argument, as the data show.
For example, if the CRA was to blame, the housing boom would have been in CRA regions; it would have made places such as Harlem and South Philly and Compton and inner Washington the primary locales of the run up and collapse. Further, the default rates in these areas should have been worse than other regions.
What occurred was the exact opposite: The suburbs boomed and busted and went into foreclosure in much greater numbers than inner cities. The tiny suburbs and exurbs of South Florida and California and Las Vegas and Arizona were the big boomtowns, not the low-income regions. The redlined areas the CRA address missed much of the boom; places that busted had nothing to do with the CRA.
The market share of financial institutions that were subject to the CRA has steadily declined since the legislation was passed in 1977. As noted by Abromowitz & Min, CRA-regulated institutions, primarily banks and thrifts, accounted for only 28 percent of all mortgages originated in 2006.
TBC
.
https://ritholtz.com/2011/11/examining-the-big-lie-how-the-facts-of-the-economic-crisis-stack-up/
"Consider a study by McClatchy: It found that more than 84 percent of the subprime mortgages in 2006 were issued by private lending. These private firms made nearly 83 percent of the subprime loans to low- and moderate-income borrowers that year. And McClatchy found that out of the top 25 subprime lenders in 2006, only one was subject to the usual mortgage laws and regulations.
A 2008 analysis found that the nonbank underwriters made more than 12 million subprime mortgages with a value of nearly $2 trillion. The lenders who made these were exempt from federal regulations...."
You’re just as guilty as he is of misinformation: only considering “loans originated” by CRA banks and ignoring all the loans CountryWide originated, bundled, and sold to CRA banks.
Neither of you can provide a link that discusses the volume of subprime loans held by CRA banks as securities.
All your quotes mention “loans originated/made by CRA banks” specifically to ignore the relationship with CountryWide loans and the CRA, and the loans originated by CountryWide that banks used for CRA credit.
Exactly as I said on my first post.
Anyway, Barry Ritholtz‘a analysis is flawed. The CRA defined areas of low- or moderate-income as eligible for the CRA, not some small number of specific inner city neighborhoods referenced by Barry.
Low and moderate income areas were prime areas of growth, as you already stated when you mentioned tiny suburbs and exburbs.
You can see a map here, and this is all explained. The CRA was effective in large regions, not just these small places called out by Barry.
https://www.policymap.com/2015/07/mapping-cra-eligibility/
For example, Barry says "or example, if the CRA was to blame, the housing boom would have been in CRA regions; it would have made places such as Harlem and South Philly"
South Philly is actually not eligible for the CRA.
According to the map, large sections of west, north, and east Philadelphia are eligible for the CRA.
He's getting the story exactly backwards.
Anyway, my point isn’t that the CRA caused the financial crisis.
My point is that there is a concise table amount of dishonest misinformation about how the CRA worked whose sole purpose is to eliminate any consideration of the CRA as having anything to do with subprime mortgages leading up to the crash.
That’s not honest analysis, and those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
Brian, by definition then, those were not CRA loans which required meeting very specific qualifications. Somebody's feeding you bullshit. A CRA loan does not mean a property located in a specific neighborhood. It requires the lender and the borrower to meet very specific guidelines, and the ones covering the borrower is why they had such low failure rates.
PS Brian, almost 1/2 of subprime failing loans were to speculators, not 1dst time home buyers. The loans themselves, followed by the bundling of them to be sold on Wall Street - that turned a serious fuck-up into a financial system disaster worse than anything we faced since 1929 - demonstrates that this was a failure of too loose management and weak regulations which took us over the cliff. This was not the 1st time that unregulated capitalism has run amuck followed by a crash - it's in it's DNA.
PS Brian - Your map is of CRA loans eligibility, not of actual CRA loans. Ritholz correctly points out that if CRA loans were a big player in the subprime collapse, they would have tracked in poorer neighborhoods where they were more likely placed. They didn't.
Again, your claim that Countrywide sold CRA loans to banks is ludicrous - those would not have been CRA loans because they did not meet CRA requirements on the borrowers or mortgae company. They wouldn't have been on CRA forms. Nothing, nada about them would be CRA loans.
Joe Friday said:
“ Somebody's feeding you bullshit. A CRA loan does not mean a property located in a specific neighborhood. ”
But earlier, Joe Friday said:
“If the CRA was to blame, the housing boom would have been in CRA regions”
Clearly you’ve already conceded that CRA eligibility is in part due to location. I’m really not sure what you’re complaining about here; you already agreed with me.
“Your map is of CRA loans eligibility, not of actual CRA loans. Ritholz correctly points out that if CRA loans were a big player in the subprime collapse, they would have tracked in poorer neighborhoods where they were more likely placed. They didn't.”
And I’m pointing out to you that his understanding of poor areas and eligibility is flawed. That’s very relevant.
One thing is certain: you will not be able to run out of webpages to Google that will tell you that:
1. The CRA opened up home ownership to low and middle income people in an amazing way never seen before.
2. Practically no loans were covered by the CRA in the first place, so they are irrelevant.
Even though 1 and 2 completely contradict each other.
Shrike has always thought he was way smarter than he really is.
I spent almost twenty years in consumer mortgage lending. So I can say that you are correct.
Countrywide wasn’t really on our side?
But they had good intention.
And a lot of connections to government.
No, but NationWide is.
Thank goodness!
"Neoliberal" means it's okay to embrace militarism and corporatism, as long as the generals and the CEOs are sufficiently woke. And it's definitely not fascism, because they call themselves anti-fascist.
So much for lack of private censorship on Gettr:
https://www.thedailybeast.com/can-you-call-free-speech-gettrs-backer-guo-wengui-a-spy-on-the-app-we-tested-it?source=politics&via=rss
“These accounts posted variations on the question of whether the platform’s billionaire benefactor is a ‘Chinese spy.’ For example, one of the accounts asked, ‘Does Chinese spy Miles Guo fund Gettr?’ It was banned from the platform just 19 minutes after its creation.”
Hopefully, TRUTH Social does better. We’ll find out soon. Not likely given TRUTH Social’s extremely FYTW Terms of Use agreement.
Centralized social platforms, whether Twitter, Gettr, or Truth, or whether discussion sections like this, will always be at risk of censorship. The model is intrinsically broken.
Only distributed social networks are resistant to censorship. Discussions on the Internet used to take place on distributed social networks. outside the control of any single corporation.
Discussions became centralized and controlled by large corporate entities because of the advertising revenue model. That's why companies like Google, Twitter, and Facebook have been pushing so hard for net neutrality and Section 230: they are important for ad revenues and the ability to run large, centralized discussion sites without legal liability.
"Not likely given TRUTH Social’s extremely FYTW Terms of Use agreement"
Remember folks, Mike is always spinning.
Truth Social's ToS are the same as everyone else's, as you can read for yourselves:
https://truthsocial.com/terms-of-service/
Mike always makes assertions like this, but will never explain exactly why because it’s a phony pile of innuendo and implication used to assert opportunistic outrage.
Mike Laursen is literally cancer, and it's continued existence is an imminent threat
Lauren is malignant taint cancer, this is known.
Hate to think what jeff is then.
Full scrotal.
The taint which the cancer infests.
If you don’t like the terms of the site, don’t use it.
Works for me.
I will never get banned from a social media site; I don't do (anti)social media.
I am old enough to have filed damn near a half century of paper 1040 returns, so no facial recognition either.
Push come to shove, I can also read a paper map and a compass.
So, according to Reason, when a government adopts a more stable currency (dollar back then, gold standard) and gives up the ability to debase the currency that "helps bring on recessions".
At that point, I stopped reading this drivel. Whatever one might say about "neoliberals", you clearly lack any basic understanding to write about them.
Why do you even try to pretend that you are libertarians?
The recession is in comparison to unlimited quantitative easing/money printing, which could have kept the good times going for a few more months or years, before a far more devastating economic crash.
Yes, you can delay the onset of recessions through irresponsible policies and make them worse in the process. That still isn't the libertarian position.
Pinochet's adoption of the US dollar as a standard (back then, still a fairly stable currency) is, in fact, suggestive that he was genuine in his support for free markets.
Interesting:
https://twitter.com/tadeuszgiczan/status/1495015587873009667?s=21
Separatist militia leader puts his license plates on cheap vehicle before making fake video of his vehicle being blown up.
So is this a false false-flag operation? Or a false false false-flag operation?
Last night before I went to sleep the New York Times/propaganda of record assured me that Putin had decided to invade. Today CNN/the world's news source tells me that VP Harris is giving the Russians a stern talking-to and diplomacy is still on the table.
Not just a false flag operation. One that’s really stingy with its special effects budget.
Anyway, responding to the deeper point you may be trying to make, there's no reason there cannot be false flags and propaganda coming from both Russia/Russian separatists and NATO/White House.
You didnt provide a birth certificate and notarized letter stating he is an official separatist leader.
Why would anyone keep their money in a Canadian bank after this?
https://twitter.com/The_Real_Fly/status/1494443046313857025?
Why would anybody have done so before?
Canada has always been a European-style parliamentary democracy, where when a politician farts, they have a new law; where government expressly indoctrinates citizens from childhood and controls the media; where there is no meaningful freedom of expression, association, or movement; where private property is not guaranteed by the government. And Canadians are little conforming sheep and go along with it.
That didn't start with COVID. Though, as in other areas of life, Trump and COVID have finally made this kind of thing more obvious to a lot more people.
Your description of parliamentary law making doesn't sound any different than what happens state-side.
You apparently don't understand even the basics of US politics or government. Have you not seen the history of health care reform, social security reform, gay rights, financial regulations, etc.? Many of those take decades to prepare before anything finally gets passed by both houses and the president, and even the SCOTUS may strike it down.
The same thing happens in Canada. And we also have a Senate and a Supreme Court.
And the Governor General signs assent like the President.
The Canadian prime minister is selected by parliament, not by a separate vote.
The governor general can theoretically veto bills but has never done so; it is not an effective limit on government power.
The powers of the Canadian senate are far more limited than those of the US Senate.
Canada is basically a run of the mill European parliamentary democracy, and they don't function well and certainly don't deliver liberty to their citizens.
This is chemjeff level bullshit, just from the other side.
As an immigrant who made a deliberate choice between Canada and the US, I want to thank you for validating my choice. Really, what a bunch of arrogant nincompoops you find up there.
And screw you about the sheep bit. I don't see Americans fighting like we are right now.
Supposed to be coming soon here. We will see.
Canadians aren't fighting, Canadian truckers are.
Canadians as a whole chose in 2021 to re-elect a Castro-loving, incompetent, blackface-wearing, authoritarian creep. And sadly, that seems to represent the Canadian people pretty well.
And although Trudeau really comes from the bottom of the barrel when it comes to politicians, it's not like the alternatives in the Canadian political scene are much better.
It's amusing to hear Canadians complain about Bush or Trump given the level of political incompetence, dysfunction, and ignorance in your own country.
Keep believing your CNN narrative and go fuck yourself NOYB2.
I just got back from a rally that half the city is at. And it's the same in every Canadian city today and we're under marshal law.
When Biden has you under marshal law and you've just come back from a huge protest you can tell me what a coward I am and what a hero you are, again.
Seriously fuck you asshole. I've seen lots of brave people today challenging the authorities. Fuck you've pissed me off.
Yeah, so? His is that working out for them? Has Trudeau resigned yet? Is anything changing about Canadian culture or politics or education? Of course not.
You just get angry because you deep down believe the propaganda that Canada is somehow a model democracy and oh so superior to the US, when in reality it is just another mediocre progressive social welfare state mostly populated by ignorant, government indoctrinated sheep. Just like Europe, sometimes those sheep stomp their feet a little and it amounts to nothing. The only advantages Canada had over European countries is that it has lots of natural resources and that it can ride the coattails of America.
You keep deluding yourself. What's happening in Canada is little different from what's happening in Europe: a bunch of people let off a little steam in the streets and then it all goes back to your little authoritarian police state, with everybody behaving according to how they were programmed in government-run schools and by government-run media.
I didn't tell you that you're a coward. You, individually, may well be putting yourself at risk and go demonstrate. But you're deluding yourself if you think that it will make any difference. Canada's political system, Canada's economic structure, and Canada's culture mean that Canadians will keep electing authoritarians and collectivists.
As for me, I'm not pretending to be a hero. I'm an immigrant. If the US goes to hell (as it looks like it may be), I'm not going to fight, I'm going to retire elsewhere.
Maybe this helps you understand:
https://townhall.com/columnists/derekhunter/2022/02/20/canada-shows-why-its-called-american-exceptionalism-n2603533
I just saw some overhead shots of a march in Calgary that looked to be a couple of miles long. I'm glad to see that kind of turnout.
I dunno if it's just the "CNN narrative" or not, but the poll numbers I've seen suggest it was a lot more likely to have maxed out at a third of the city, though, because it's at least being bandied about that about 2/3rds of Canadians polled support Trudeau's action here.
I hope that's not true. If it is, maybe it's just because they don't understand how fucked it is. Maybe they'll come to understand that. But I don't see the media helping them to reach that conclusion.
How about we re-divide the continent into 2 or 3 geographically big nations, and about a dozen small ones?
You can still get your Canadian cash out at the ATM, you just have to answer a few questions first:
https://babylonbee.com/news/canadian-atms-now-asking-your-political-views-before-allowing-you-to-withdraw-money
Police are trampling old women in wheel chairs with horses.
https://mobile.twitter.com/johnrich/status/1494863462224351236
Why Beef prices are up:
Drought has killed hay supplies, demand is up worldwide, supply/production is down 5.9%
Feeding Cattle Gets Costly as Drought Grips U.S. Pasture
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-10/feeding-cattle-really-expensive-as-drought-grips-u-s-pasture
https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/agribusiness/the-reason-aussies-are-getting-grilled-at-the-checkout-for-red-meat/news-story/7853d8797b7b5c672a175b1990c779be
Obviously the Fed's fault.
No, it must be Biden's fault.
Or the Fed.
Anyway Donnie Boy would fix it with tariffs.
Excellent work.
Don't forget to mention rig count too.
#DefendBidenAtAllCosts
Oh yeah, can't forget the Warren Buffett Net Worth Index — your favorite metric from 2009 to 2016.
The WBNWI is plus $4.97 billion this year.
#BestEconomyEver
Anyone not invested in $$s is doing great.
This reminds me of when the Soviets blamed the weather for the Holodomor.
We blame the Russians for inflation. What do they blame inflation on?
Wreckers and kulaks
Was this also the cause for the dramatic 10¢ increase in the price of spittin tobaccy?
So many transitory causes just coincidentally happening at the same time. Congress spending 5 trillion we didn't have and the Fed buying up trillions in Treasuries and mortgage backed securities had nothing to do with it.
Congress spending 5 trillion we didn't have
Which I opposed. This too:
No, Donald Trump Did Not 'Shrink' Government
Annual federal spending grew by $940 billion under his signature, even before the coronavirus.
MATT WELCH | 8.27.2020 3:55 PM
Welch = Libertarian.
Trump = Not.
Canada is gassing the protestors now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtbuGaxfIg0
Do you know who else liked to gas their enemies?
Kaiser Wilhelm?
Pepe LePew?
Six million Jews are dying in Canada.
Every person dies, but hive-minds like yours never really live.
Fuck off, Nazi!
Aren’t you a holocaust denier? Does that make you a Nazi?
I mean unless you believe the Jewish leaders and media who claimed no less than 166 times between 1900 and 1945 that there were so many holocausts of 6 million Jews…YOU ARE DENYING JEWISH CLAIMS OF HOLOCAUSTS OF 6 MILLION JEWS.
Hahaha
http://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/10/31/repeated-claims-of-6-million-jews-dying-decades-before-hitler-vs-ignored-soviet-death-camp-tolls/
SPRINGTIME FOR MISEK!
The number of Blue Checks that are fine with all this is amazing.
I wish I *were* amazed by it. Instead, it's just depressingly expected.
And somehow, in a week someone on the left will still be claiming to support the workers or some shit like that, as though they didn't just cheer their violent dispersal.
They will be SHOCKED when these rules are used against the next protest they whip up.
I'd be shocked when these rules are used against the next protest they whip up.
They know full well that the new standard is a double standard, where they can do anything and the proles can do nothing.
Why would they support a BLM protest now that they are in charge?
Why would BLM protest now that they are in charge?
https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-rioters-vandalize-buildings-block-traffic-after-amir-locke-death
Some of them might still think it's about police killing people.
And nobody really covered it because it's not useful at the moment.
You think leftists give a shit about their strays?
They hold all institutional power and fear no violence in opposition, thus they are without restraints.
It's going to get much worse. These protests like the truckers are doing are important, but ultimately just a speed bump.
Do you have a cite that is a text article, not a video?
Oh, here we go:
https://www.newsweek.com/police-canada-france-deploy-snipers-tear-gas-against-freedom-convoys-1678704
Had to search for “tear gas”. If I searched for only “gas”, I found only endless articles about siphoning the gas out of protestors’ vehicles.
Holy crap you found a source all on you own!
Do you need the horse trampling too?
https://mobile.twitter.com/johnrich/status/1494863462224351236
And of course RCMP lies, saying no one was trampled, they just "fell".
The video clearly shows the old aboriginal Canadian lady with a walker getting run over deliberately. And just seconds after she was shouting "Love and peace!"
This ticks so many political disaster boxes that you have to wonder if it was on purpose.
A way to show dissenters how powerless they are.
"We can deliberately ride a horse over a handicapped little old brown-skinned native woman in front of the world's news cameras, and not only will the media misreport it. They'll blame the old woman".
That's Stalin level power.
Disability scooter, not walker. This is apparently the bike police claimed was thrown to injure the horses.
Yes, thrown. From her hands. As she tumbled to the ground under the hooves of the horse.
Yeah, but who are you going to believe, the RCMP or your lying eyes?
Horses aren't going to trample people unless they have no choice or are trained and ordered to do so.
A broken leg is a death sentence for them.
It's a livestream you pedantic fuck.
It is amazing how Mike and others need someone to tell them what to think about videos.
I watched it happen myself. Sorry.
Ah
You can watch the protestors violently standing around just before the gas is deployed.
By the way, this tactic is incredibly stupid. The archive of the video goes up after the livestream and we can point people to exactly the parts we're talking about.
https://youtu.be/ZtbuGaxfIg0?t=5724
What tactic is stupid? I didn’t follow.
"Oh do you have a cite for that other than the video that shows it?"
You thought because it was a livestream the moment would be lost forever. Now you saw it. What do you have to say? Nothing, as usual.
I wasn’t trying a “tactic”. I just don’t like it when someone provides a link to a video, because I don’t have time to watch it. I just want to read a summary.
I don’t disbelieve that the Canadian police used gas on someone. I don’t have any dog in this hunt. I sympathize with the protestors.
With this post here, Mike Laursen (again) demonstrates its complete lack of any semblance of integrity or honesty.
Most of the videos are 15 seconds long. You spend longer typing out your idiotic posts with one finger.
Stupid cunt.
Did you see the one where they violently kneeling and violently praying? That one was even worse.
Ottawa police addressed the protesters in a tweet: “We told you to leave. We gave you time to leave. We were slow and methodical, yet you were assaultive and aggressive with officers and the horses. Based on your behaviour, we are responding by including helmets and batons for our safety.”
The police lied about assaults. This is amazingly bad. Full on authoritarians now over trash free bouncy castle protests.
And nothing else will happen. :-/
Seems Trump moved classified documents. The principled information ethics folks here will certainly be yelling for investigations and to lock him up*.
*By this I mean none of them, it was all bullshit to begin with.
The walls are closing in, we got him now for sure this time.
Another bombshell. We've reached the tipping point. The walls are closing in. It's the beginning of the end.
Even the Trumps' accounting firm outed themselves as incompetent or crooked, saying you can't trust the past 10 years worth of accounting statements they prepared for Trump and attached their professional reputation to previously. I guess they're feeling bad or something.
https://www.fox4news.com/news/trumps-accounting-firm-says-financial-statements-contain-discrepancies-arent-reliable
NOW they've got him for sure. Some are calling it "worse than impeachment."
And the lax document security folks will be jumping in to defend Trump any day now, as strict security standards are really just the threat of jail for political enemies: so sinister.
Well you're late to that particular party... But the NYT's expose confesses there's also a chance that the "missing" phone records never existed because Trump was using his personal cell, a staffer's cell, or didn't make calls at the time.
This is my new favorite story to demonstrate who the idiots are.
When presidents go on vacations they actually aren't in vacation. A scif would have been set up for communications to his preferred vacation residence just like bidens Delaware home, bush's Texas ranch, camp David, etc.
Each of those had instances of classified documents at the residence.
But you're an idiot shrike. And a leftist. So you fall time and time again for media hysteria like a good little dummy.
Seems Trump moved classified documents.
No problem if you're a Republican who needs to erase history.
But Sandy Berger is a traitor and should have been executed.
I want you to go on record here.
Did Trump or one of his aides steal or hide the "missing" phone records?
Yes or no?
Also, did he cross state lines?
It’s hilarious that Tony, Queen, and shrike are all “how dare he” when they bent over backwards to excuse away a personal server in a closet that was specifically set up to avoid FOIA requests and was surreptitiously destroyed when it was under subpoena.
But anyone that points out why these scenarios are different are the real hypocrites.
I wonder if this cunt gets paid by responses to her trolling.
Even the most sophisticated minds can be afflicted by the hypocrisies of tribalism.
And these are not the most sophisticated minds, it goes without saying.
Says the guy who is consistently, intentionally ignorant. And brags about it.
If true, he should be punished as severely as any other high level executive has in the last 20 years.
https://twitter.com/sunlorrie/status/1494873178975444999?t=k-d-TaNx5yJ6TdCdaNlUbw&s=19
Using the extraordinary powers in Canada's Emergencies Act are supposed to expire after 30 days, unless re-approved by Parliament for a specific time period. A mere 5 days in, @cafreeland says the Trudeau gov't will make some of the powers it grants the state permanent. #cdnpoli
"Now some of those tools, we will be putting forward measurers to put those tools permanently in place. The authorities of FINTRAC, I believe, do need to be expanded to cover crowd-sourcing platforms and their payment providers."
Canada has a code-red crisis going on right now, and if Americans don't start fighting today this is what you can expect this summer.
It is now illegal to oppose Trudeau in Canada, and it's amazing how quickly the police and the banks went along with it.
Trudeau is truly a cunt.
That's really super ugly. It's also flamingly hypocritical, but, y'know, if this happens, and then the controlling party flips, boy howdy are BLM going to have a shitty time the next go around.
But this also goes back to what you were saying above about Blue Checks, can you imagine the screeching if Trump had declared BLM domestic terrorists and seized all of their assets? And the assets of anyone who went to a BLM protest in support?
Fortunately, the democratic party is now the BLM, so he can get all the campaign funds.
Cool.
Like, the bail fund Kamala was running. And therefore all of Kamala's personal accounts, etc. There would have been rioting!
I mean, y'know, *more* rioting!
"Canada has a code-red crisis going on right now, and if Americans don't start fighting today this is what you can expect this summer."
It seems to me that Canada has been under these conditions for a long time. It's just that there was no way to know until there was a protest. Trudeau didn't show us what cards he'd play until the truckers called, but he must have always been ready to play the emergency card under these circumstances.
I think we're in the same position in the USA. It very well may be that the only reason Biden hasn't sent in the heavies to break up a massive protest in Washington DC is because there hasn't been a massive protest in Washington DC since January 6. If there were one, I suspect Biden would be acting just like Trudeau.
I expected to see a massive protest organized on Trump's new social media app, Truth social. It was supposed to have launched on President's Day--on Monday. They've pushed the launch date back into March, which may or may not be attributable to the Biden's SEC investigating the SPAC behind Truth social.
"The Securities and Exchange Commission has requested information about the deal, including the identities of some investors and “certain documents and communications” between the SPAC and Mr. Trump’s company, Trump Media & Technology Group."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/06/business/trump-spac-sec-arc.html
Some might say we can't really know if we're living under the conditions of the Canadians in regards to protests until there's a large protest in the U.S. A legitimate counterargument might be that we're already under those conditions without an emergency order.
After all, if you tried to finance a massive protest against Biden and the pandemic on GoFundMe, I doubt they'd let that happen. If you tried to organize a massive protest on Facebook or Twitter, they'd shut you down. Maybe the reason Biden hasn't issued an emergency order is because it's necessary. Maybe with Biden and the progressives in power, we're already living under most of the conditions of an emergency order.
"Maybe the reason Biden hasn't issued an emergency order is because it's [UN]necessary."
Fixed!
Conspiracy nut!!!!1!1! - Jeff and Mike
T he Nation and Jacobin are not just left wing. To them anyone to the right of Stalin is a 'right winger' . There whole outlook is state control of the entire economy and our lives. They are some of the most evil people in the world.
https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1495062352735186944?t=u9SErfjxn8pS0DOOiI_nsw&s=19
1. I just spoke with Alexa Lavoie, our brave reporter who was just assaulted by Trudeau's police. She tells me a cop hit her three times with a club and then shot a tear gas canister at her leg from point-blank range.
Trudeau has instructed his police to attack journalists.
2. Alexa says she was specifically targeted by a cop who saw her camera. She says he came up to her and beat her and pushed her down. She says he tried to knock the phone out of her hands, to stop her from filming.
3. Here is video of the attack. I understand we have more footage. Unprovoked, targeted violence, beating a woman with a stick, and shooting her at point-blank range with a tear gas round.
[Links]
It’s for her own health safety.
Fucking pigs.
There's video of police hitting a guy, pulling him back, cops surrounding to stop videoing. Someone stood up on a lamp post and filmed cops hitting him with the butt of a rifle.
Pigs will be pigs no matter the country.
Where's Dudley Doright?
Snidley murdered him and hid the corpse.
'(Some) Democrats adopt a simple (partisan) narrative.' Not that the GOP isn't generally guilty of the same, but this is what comes out of the mouths of team blue, and the media 24/7. Beyond this point, I understand how difficult it is to find unbiased, objective sources, but Jacobin is as far from this as Gawker.
Jacobin: Trust Fund Communists- that’s it right. We ask our millennial son who the far left in his generation is. “Oh, they’re just trust fund kids with totalitarian envy”.
Foucault, they note, was attracted to a political current called the Second Left, which offered autogestion—
Autogestion? Is that when you finally reach and then never leave the house? Doesn't that require removing a few vertebrae? 😉
Autogestion = worker self management
Workers can do that too if they can afford the vertebae removal. 🙂
'Course, with France, their unusual operation would install vertebrae. 😉
Noam Chomsky just called himself a Libertarian Socialist. Doublethink from Orwell
Crazy fucking political times we live in.
I call Chomsky a discredited #TrumpRussia denialist.
#ItsMuellerTime
You have to remember, in Europe, libertarianism is more associated with left-wing movements. In a European context, the extreme end of libertarianism is pure communism - completely stateless, everything is run by collectives, no hierarchical authoritarian power structures at all. It is only here in North America that libertarianism is associated with right-wing movements, with the extreme end being anarcho-capitalism - absolute preservation of property rights.
You openly admitted to being an elitist loving centralized government loving statist. So kindly shut the fuck up.
Neither liberalism nor libertarianism meaningfully exist in Europe at all.
Oh, so they live in a fantasy world like ancaps?
Seeing as nome chomskey has literally never been correct in any aspect of life, why do people think he's smart? Even his life's work was disproven before he finished. If he had any honor he would boltzman himself
Chomsky’s politics and linguistics are both garbage. Here did some good work in theoretical computer science.
A certain Cambodian leader appreciated him
"Libertarian" can mean left-anarchist--especially to people in Europe. If you tell people you're a libertarian in the U.K., they probably think you're a socialist-anarchist.
"Liberal" elsewhere in the world can mean what we think of as fiscally conservative. The Liberal Party in Australia is what we call the Republicans. They're the party of the center-right.
Orwell was a real libertarian socialist. Orwell's famous quote about how, “The real division is not between conservatives and revolutionaries but between authoritarians and libertarians" was about watching the communists in Spain attack--really take up arms against--the anarchist socialists, and that was because the Russian communists didn't want any rivals. When he wrote that, Orwell was actually bemoaning the communists fighting against liberty oriented socialists.
I believe it's true that you can't have a free society and a socialist society, but Orwell didn't believe that.
The reason Orwell sometimes sounds so libertarian is because 1) he hated the communists (for, in his mind, betraying socialism) and because 2) the biggest differences between him and anarcho-capitalists are largely about what they want to do with their freedom after they get rid of the government.
The libertarian socialists think that's when the workers will finally be free to unite. The anarcho-capitalists believe that's when we'll finally be free to be entrepreneurs. I think they're both wrong. Socialism is about enforcing rules on the market, and market forces are nothing but people making choices. You can't curb market forces in a free society. I think the anarcho-capitalists are wrong, too. In the absence of a government to protect our rights, people will come together and create police to protect themselves from criminals, courts to protect themselves from the police, and armies to protect themselves from foreign threats. You'll just end up with a government again.
That's part of the reason why I'm a small state libertarian.
Anyway, because Chomsky believes in something we see as a self-contradictory oxymoron, e.g. libertarian socialism, doesn't mean he doesn't really believe in a self-contradictory oxymoron. He's wrong, but he's wrong for reasons that have been wrong since before Orwell. The socialists of the past didn't have the benefit of hindsight.
We see what communism AND socialism have done. Chomsky has seen it all, too. His greatest sin may be refusing to change his position despite everything he's seen that Orwell didn't. Orwell saw the light on communism, and I suspect he'd have changed his tune on socialism if he'd seen everything we've seen. If Chomsky hasn't changed his overall outlook on socialism despite all the socialist failures since Orwell, then he's not principled like Orwell was. He's willfully obtuse.
"The difference between socialism and communism is that a socialist argues there's a distinction between a socialist and a communist, whereas a communist no longer needs to maintain that facade."
Marxist-Leninist regimes considered themselves a the REAL Socialists as opposed to western Social Democrats. Communism was the end goal, the final stage of history yet-to-be achieved while the system they built their regimes upon was called by such terms as “Real Socialism”, “Scientific Socialism,” etc. And they didn’t refer to themselves as the @Soviet Bloc” but rather as the @Socialist Camp” (we were the “Imperialist Camp”).
JOKE FROM THE SOVIET ERA: A Polish Communist official visits Moscow with a delegation. One of his Soviet hosts asks him: “So, comrade, how do you like being in the very center of the Socialist Camp?” The Pole replies: “It’s okay, but frankly I prefer my own barracks.”
"Politics is filled with words that mean different things in different mouths. The world has never come to a complete consensus on the meaning of capitalism, socialism, conservatism, or just plain liberalism"
----Jesse Walker
Whatever else socialism is, it's in addition to 1) industry being dominated by the government, 2) prices set by the government, and 3) wealth distributed by the government. If you're talking about one form of socialism vs. another, you're talking about differences between them in addition to those three features or the extent to which those three things are being done. Every definition of socialism that fails to include those three features at its core is a definition of socialism that fails.
Whatever else capitalism is, it's in addition to 1) industry being dominated by private ownership, 2) prices set by markets, and 3) wealth distributed by markets. If you're talking about one form of capitalism vs. another, you're talking about differences between them in addition to those three features or the extent to which those three things are being done. Every definition of capitalism that fails to include those three features at its core is a definition of capitalism that fails.
If someone says otherwise, they're wrong.
Authoritarianism is advocating for the government to force people to do things against their will, and libertarianism is advocating for people to be free to make choices for themselves without force. People who can't tell the difference between these things are generally speaking not libertarians. I can think of five different legitimate definitions for a libertarian right of the top of my head, and we can argue about what it means to be a libertarian 'til the roads disappear.
An excellent definition of a non-libertarian may be easier to come by--and I bet we can all agree that a non-libertarian is someone who can't see a significant difference between the government forcing people to do things against their will and people being free to make choices for themselves. I had a discussion with a bureaucrat, recently, who couldn't seem to tell the difference between investors, lenders, and customers giving me their money of their own free will and the taxpayers being forced to give him his salary under the threat of criminal prosecution. That, my libertarian friends, is an excellent indication that he was not a libertarian.
Authoritarianism is advocating for the government to force people to do things against their will, and libertarianism is advocating for people to be free to make choices for themselves without force. People who can't tell the difference between these things are generally speaking not libertarians.
Or, people who acknowledge that there are gray areas in between the dichotomy of "authoritarianism" and "libertarianism" are ones who consider the issue seriously, and not just to score cheap Internet debate points.
You do not possess such capacity.
Tell us again how only people who are worthy get liberty.
Also this.
chemjeff radical individualist
February.8.2022 at 11:37 am
Flag Comment Mute User
I will take Elites over the Mob any day of the week. The mob is ruled by passions and emotion. They are driven by the loudest words of the biggest demagogue.
Youre a oligarch defender, not libertarian.
Well, whatever you do or do not acknowledge, chemjeff, you come down fully on the authoritarian side.
Touch a nerve did he?
Speaking of neoliberals
Laura Ingraham on Twitter: Finally the walls are closing in on the Clinton campaign. Get the popcorn ready.
I know, right Laura! Exactamundo! You guys at Fox have your nose stuck exactly up the rectum of truth and when I refer to truth I’m specifically talking about the biggest truth teller of all:Dear Leader.
You would think that Hillary Clinton would have learned her lesson though wouldn’t you? After she was imprisoned for killing those 4 Americans in BENGHAZI and then after she died of Parkinson’s Disease like Ken was telling us she would (h/t to Ken) you’d think she would have the decency to stay silent. But, no— of course not. Like every other democrat Hillary Clinton just doesn’t know when to stop.
"Dear Leader"
You did it again, American Socia1ist. If you insist on abandoning your old character and starting a new one, at least give it a unique voice.
#HowToWriteDialogue101
Poor Shrike. It's the best he can do, you know.
Yes, the Canadian Constitution allows for peaceful picketing, and no, the Emergency Act does not invalidate that right. What Trudeau and his goons are doing is illegal regardless of his illegitimately obtained powers.
But this is happening anyway.
Remember this later this year when it's happening in the states. These people don't give a fuck about the Constitution.
Plan accordingly.
Guess what happens when its not localised. Trucker stoppage across the US.
Guesses.....??
No need to block the streets. When the food deliveries stop, people will be mass blocking the roads trying to get to the store.
The Left want riots? Itll be ON !!!
If you could actually *get* all the truckers to park for just a single week, I bet there would be significant changes inbound.
I've heard the argument that the fascist doesn't care about being consistent or even factually correct. They can believe one thing one day and the opposite the next. And all you have to do is watch FOX News do it in real time.
Because the fascist doesn't want truth or fairness, the fascist wants power. The argument goes that none of them actually believes what they were saying. I wouldn't necessarily go that far. The same phenomenon can be explained by people being so mentally addled that they actually believe one thing one day and the opposite thing the next.
When you have fascist tribal brain, the only facts that really matter are ones that confirm your hatred for your enemy and the goodness of your allies.
When are you going to start telling how the jews control everything?
We have Herr Misek for that.
That's literally what QAnoners believe.
If you had an ounce of self-awareness you would have realized that you just described your modus operandi here.
No, it's everyone's modus operandi, and as I'm significantly more thoughtful than you about these things, I'm nearly certain that you don't see your tribalism better than I see mine.
I must be very observant of my tribalism, in fact, because I've chosen to be tribal deliberately on pragmatic grounds.
You’re the fascist Tony, not the imaginary Republicans in your head.
You are projecting again.
Good piece, Walker. My vague understanding of "neoliberalism" is that it is much like neoconservatism only with more gayness and abortions. They're both a sort of progressive centrism. Sort of an evolutionary subspecies the of Progressive-era progressivism.
It is centrist, but more critical of progressivism.
I find myself somewhere between neoliberalism and libertarianism, to be honest. I am not dogmatically libertarian based on the standards here, anyway, and there are a lot of good ideas in the neoliberal toolkit. Neoliberalism seems like a reasonable middle ground between the status quo and the Libertopian ideal:
Skepticism of government regulation, but not outright rejection of all regulation.
Focus on government doing its core tasks effectively
Focus on giving consumers power in the marketplace, rather than on regulators dictating to consumers what choices they will be allowed to have
Support for free trade and liberalized immigration policies
If libertarians can sound more like neoliberals in their rhetoric then it could improve the standing of libertarian ideals. Just take the existing neoliberal mindset, and continue pushing the envelope towards greater individual liberties. It would get rid of the image of libertarians as nutty paranoid cranks, and it would serve a political market that is currently being underserved, a Team Blue goes more and more progressive, and Team Red goes more and more populist.
Don't forget to credit neoliberals for being sympathetic to our #LibertariansForCRTInPublicSchools / #RadicalIndividualistsForRacialCollectivism agenda.
I also suspect neoliberals would agree with the important libertarian goal of letting convicted serial killers vote from prison.
#CharlesMansonTechnicallyRemainedACitizen
I suspect neoliberals would not agree with the important right-wing goals of seeking victimhood, using "common sense" or "gut feelings" or "what my Facebook friends say" as the basis for important decisions, and replacing reason and logic with emotions, feelings, paranoia, appeals to patriotism, and memes. Isn't that right?
Keep defending teaching kids to judge people based on race and sex.
Well you've started losing me here, jeff.
Our Democratic allies do, in fact, appeal to "common sense." I'm sure you've heard the expression "common sense gun safety"?
And "appeals to patriotism"? Have you been asleep for the past 5 years? Literally the #1 tactic our Democratic allies use these days is pointing out Republicans have betrayed the US and are working for Russia. "Putin's Puppet"? "Moscow Mitch"? "Russia Rand"? Ring any bells?
You know what though? Even if your reasoning is sometimes sloppy and confused, I still like having you on my side. Just remember to vote Democrat in November and we'll still be friends. 🙂
I'm not talking about what Democrats do. I'm talking about what right-wingers do. Surely you and I can agree that the right-wing tactic of seeking victimhood and "replacing reason and logic with emotions, feelings, paranoia, appeals to patriotism, and memes", especially ridiculous hashtags, is completely stupid and betrays any pretense of having sound decision-making on the basis of facts and reason and logic. Wouldn't you agree, "friend"?
I don't know what's funnier: OBL pegging you ideologically, or you actually trying to debate him.
Obl has jeff and shrike down.
Jeff and Shrike have Down's?
That explains a few things.
Every day I am less and less convinced obl is a parody, and eighter a seuth sayer, or an actual progressive who is more rational than all the others
“Seeking victimhood.”
Replace “seeking” with “mining” or “weaponizing” and you’ve got the left, Jeff.
Your own post on the true meaning of CRT was STILL incredibly collectivist, problematic and generally racist.
You're right! It IS a very problematic theory! That's why I don't endorse it! I also don't think it should be banned! Because banning ideas don't make them go away, they just drive them underground.
As everyone knows, a proper libertarian should be totally in favor of banning books and banning ideas in schools. Isn't that right?
Like this?
https://thepostmillennial.com/ontario-schools-book-burning-reconciliation
And quit pretending CRT isn't reworked Nazi racial theories, you fascist fuck.
Of course. For example The Bell Curve should be banned from public schools.
And certain ideas are inappropriate for a classroom discussion. Imagine a current events teacher telling his students he opposes racial preferences. Or a biology teacher saying a human with a penis / testicles, and without vagina / uterus / ovaries, is necessarily male. Our progressive allies wouldn't tolerate that hate speech.
None of this contradicts our #LibertariansForCRTInPublicSchools ideology.
For example The Bell Curve should be banned from public schools.
No it shouldn't be.
Imagine a current events teacher telling his students he opposes racial preferences.
Imagine a current events teacher leading a classroom discussion on the topic of racial preferences, including arguments both in favor and against the practice, without inserting his/her own personal opinion on the matter into the discussion itself. Wouldn't that be great?
Or a biology teacher saying a human with a penis / testicles, and without vagina / uterus / ovaries, is necessarily male.
Imagine a biology teacher having a professional, age-appropriate discussion with students on the difference between sex and gender, and how one is biologically determined but the other is socially determined. Wouldn't that be great?
Our progressive allies wouldn't tolerate that hate speech.
Then they'd be wrong. Not the first thing you'd be wrong about.
They weren't banned you retarded fuck. Schools are not the library of congress. Space is limited. Libertarians prefer letting individuals decide how space is used. In this case families. Not government agents.
Then again you are also against sunshine laws into what kids are taught. Because you're a statist.
You find yourself standing between fascism and national socialism, you Nazi cunt.
Outside of drugs and assfucking, there's not a libertarian bone in your body.
Youre a statist. Stop with the pretending. You ooze authoritarian. You defend government agents as the truth even when they lie.
Didn't you say last night you were a principled libertarian, or are you now going to gaslight again and deny you said that?
You delude yourself about where you are politically.
Protest update. Sad for Reason news would happen on a weekend, right?
https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/cypto-exchange-krakens-ceo-not-your
Here is another protest update:
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/19/americas/canada-trucker-protest-covid-saturday/index.html
I note this important tidbit:
On Saturday, Legislators resumed emergency debate on the Emergencies Act, which had been interrupted Friday, House Speaker Anthony Rota said in a statement.
So I guess Trudeau wasn't actually going "full Palpatine" yesterday, then, right?
Youre actually defending the actions against the protesters lol. Should they burn a few buildings down before you go against the police?
Yes, grasshopper, he was.
And that's why debate resumed today, even under "full Palpatine" Trudeau?
Canadian law requires it to be uninterrupted.
The fact that it was interrupted for a show of force in the first place makes him "full Palpatine".
And before the inevitable question arises:
WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING TRUDEAU?????
I'm not defending Trudeau. I'm only asking that he be discussed fairly, and not made out to be a caricature of a cartoon villain, literally Palpatine in this case. I don't like the whole Emergencies Act thing. But at least I can understand the legitimate rationale behind doing it, and it's not because he wants to turn into Emperor Palpatine.
No. You defended him violating the law after he used war powers over non violent protestors.
You are defending him shit weasel. You just realized how unlibertarian it is.
Your point about the value of not exaggerating when debating, sticking to the facts, not saying any old bullshit just to "win" is going to be completely lost on a lot of the commenters here.
The fact that you and Jeff are defending the left constantly is lost on both of you liars.
As in, you seem to be a mature, serious person, and many here are just big children.
There is a lot of emoting and feelz and virtue-signaling going on, that is for sure.
For example:
Unnamed agents wearing all-black clothes throws suspects into an unmarked van in the middle of the night in Portland, then drops them off at a courthouse. This story is nit-picked to death: are they really unnamed? Well they had a good reason to conceal their identity, they didn't want to be doxxed. And what were those people doing in Portland in the middle of the night during the height of BLM protests? Probably guilty of something.
And they dropped them off at a courthouse, not some gulag, so it's no harm no foul, right? Plus, you just have TDS. If Obama/Biden/Hillary/etc. had done the same thing....
BUT:
When police in Ottawa, in broad daylight, wearing normal uniforms, use standard tactics to remove protestors from an illegal protest - illegal because they've been encamped and blocking roads in the city for weeks and weeks - then it's FASCISM and TYRANNY and AUTHORITARIANISM and how dare they and Trudeau is the face of TYRANNY and he's literally Emperor Palpatine.
So the apparent rule is:
Protests against left-wingers are justified and virtuous and noble, and any attempt to get rid of the protestors is tyranny.
Protests against right-wingers are suspect, their motives must be questioned, and attempts to get rid of the protestors are justified.
But under no circumstances are we to examine the context of the situation independent of the individuals involved, to rely on principle. It's all analysis based on tribe.
Everyone has, and should have, the liberty to protest anything they wish. But the protest must be peaceful and it must not infringe upon everyone else's liberties.
Using police to remove protestors whose protests have turned into illegal occupations CAN be justified, but the police should not use tactics reminiscent of 1930's Germany.
It shouldn't be controversial to adopt these two rules, but yet it is.
No, the general rule of thumb is: picking up suspected attempted arsonist or the people running cover for them isn’t the same as tear gassing and gestappo tactics on an actual peaceful protest.
The fact that you don’t see a difference between the two protests, let alone the governments reactions to them, is why everyone gets so angry with you.
Oh I see a difference between the two protests. With the exception of the Emergencies Act part - which I agree is very troubling - the protestors in Ottawa were treated comparatively nicely. Tear gas is standard anti-riot tactics. The BLM protestors were tear gassed too, you know. Did you even know that? Or did you swallow the Team Red narrative that BLM protestors were given a free pass by liberal mayors everywhere to do as they please without consequence? The police in Ottawa waited out the protests for weeks and weeks and weeks, to the great irritation of the residents there. They didn't go in guns a-blazing. They DIDN'T throw protestors into unmarked vans in the dead of night. If you think what happened in Ottawa was "gestapo tactics" then it is you who is myopic and self-entitled - "when MY SIDE gets treated badly then it's GESTAPO but when THEIR SIDE gets treated badly then it's JUSTICE."
“….protests for weeks and weeks and weeks….”
So now every one week = multiple weeks?
Why are you so dishonest, Jeff? If I didn’t know better I’d say you were “seeking victimhood.” Or mining it.
Oh fuck off with your patronizing “I’m only asking he be discussed fairly.” bullshit. You have had no problem discussing anything they tweets your nipples the wrong way with gross mischaracterizations and collectivism.
And Mike can fuck right off too with his bullshit “we’re the only adults here” fart sniffing. You two are some of the most disingenuous posters here. And you regularly run interference but only for one side, all while trying to claim “both sides!”
Fine, I'll put you down with the "Team Blue gets treated like evil Hitlers while Team Red gets a pass" camp.
And it dovetails nicely with the "discussion" with OBL above, and really what I have been thinking about lately, which is that the past 20 years or so of national politics in this country have been mostly governed by emotion and feelings rather than by reason and logic. The last presidential campaign that I can truthfully say that had a substantial grounding in policy and ideology was 2000. Not that there wasn't bullshit in that campaign too, but it wasn't so overwhelming as the bullshit ha been in all the subsequent campaigns.
First we had "you must vote for Republicans to keep us safe from the terrorists who are lurking behind every corner", pandering to naked fear.
Then we had "you must vote for Democrats to usher in a new era of hope and change", appealing to gauzy substance-free emotional feelings of change.
And now we are stuck in a perpetual cycle of "you must vote for Republicans because otherwise the Democrats will ruin the country", and "you must vote for Democrats because otherwise the Republicans will ruin the country".
We aren't talking about ideas anymore. We aren't talking about policies anymore. Everything is hyperbole and outrage and grandstanding. Trudeau temporarily suspends parliamentary debate for one day, for a very good reason - there's literally an encampment of protestors right in front of the parliament building - and he's suddenly "full Palpatine". When the events of the next day demonstrate that the previous over-the-top rhetoric is not justified, do we get an apology? No, nothing but crickets. Because the entire point of rhetoric today is to try to find new and creative ways to demonize and dehumanize the other side as pure evil and worse than Hitler, in all ways and in every way. And of course it was the same with Trump. He did some outrageous things, but his critics often went way overboard in their criticism of him.
You argued protestors can be shot.
The left is fill of emotion. You especially are full of emotion. With your cries of think about the fatties and wear your mask. J6 almost ended the US. Trump started ww3 by killing solemani.
You argued not against trumps policies but his behaviors.
You continue to project like you did yesterday.
Again, historically illiterate. My side good for the country, the other side bad for the country has literally been the Hallmark of every presidential campaign since Jefferson v Adams. This is literally how Truman won in 1948, as he and Dewey had little to no policy differences. Truman spent months on a train stopping at any town he could to say a vote for Republicans was a vote to return to the policies that caused the depression. In fact, this was even more common in the past because the parties had so much policy overlap. The entire campaign against Lincoln was a character assassination, both times he ran.
I believe Jefferson was called the mongrol halfbreed of a runaway slave and an Indian squaw
I didn't say that this constant demonization of the other side had never happened before, only that it was the dominant mode of discourse now.
So not much has changed?
I think our fundamental disagreement is that most people here think the Democrats, being no shit totalitarian fascists, are actively trying to destroy the country and you don’t see it.
In regards to Canada, there was no reason to invoke the Act in the first place.
the Democrats, being no shit totalitarian fascists, are actively trying to destroy the country
Sure they are. Just like Republicans are totalitarian fascists actively trying to destroy the country.
That is the kool-aid that each tribe tries to sell about the other, pandering to naked fear, to try to get you to vote for them. It is just a ruse, a tactic. It is not grounded in objective reality.
Republicans are advocating for state control of vast swaths of the economy, demanding they have the right to shut the economy down at any time, and force you to get a medical treatment? Well fuck them too then.
Nobody tell Jeffy that the imperial senate existed for 20 years after episode 3.
Psst: Star Wars is fictional
Psst. You brought up Palpatine.
God damn youre an idiot jeff.
Nobody forced you to bring up the Emperor, you did that.
I'm sorry you couldn't defend that analogy fully.
No, that was from yesterday, and not from me. THIS is where the Palpatine analogy came from, this discussion.
https://reason.com/video/2022/02/18/the-revolt-of-the-canadian-truckers/?comments=true#comment-9363707
In fact you were participating in the comments to yesterday's article. Funny how you didn't pick up on this.
Unlike you, I devote very little of my time to this board. Life is infinitely more important than politics. But as you made clear in your thought experiments, it defines you.
So I will accept your apology now for falsely attributing to me the Palpatine analogy, and I will expect that you will now hound and nit-pick those right-wing commenters here who did make the analogy and who do think Trudeau has gone "full Palpatine".
So are you refuting your initial reference? You just can't be coherent, huh?
How much do you want to bet, that once the protestors leave Ottawa, that the Emergencies Act declaration will be repealed and Trudeau will not become dictator?
How much is your disability check? Trudeau already said he was making parts of it permanent dumbass.
And to add to the palpatine-ifiying, it was a regular occurrence that some emergency law was passed, then he said it would be temporary. Gosh darn it, you can't even get that right.
So, do you think that liberal democracy in Canada, as in the Star Wars Old Republic, is about to crumble and Trudeau will declare himself dictator of Canada? Is that what you think? If so, then just state so openly, so that I can laugh at you when liberal democracy in Canada manages to survive the trucker protests.
I'm sorry you still failed the analogy. I'll explain it to you: Palpatine has cunning, Trudeau couldn't help himself in his temper tantrum, and so he tried to cosplay as the emperor. If you actually knew what the character meant, you'd stop digging that hole.
Here's the Deputy Prime Minister today saying that they're keeping the measures in place even after the Emergencies Act no longer applies:
https://twitter.com/The_Real_Fly/status/1494443046313857025?
Do try to keep up. You can't properly simp for the dictatorship if you're not paying attention.
https://twitter.com/ScottLucian/status/1495034618185228293?t=kmYXryKUM3kNWLsgt7ggIQ&s=19
Wow… just on CPAC now an MP asked why Klaus Schwab was bragging he owns half of Canada’s parliament and who are the MP’s he owns… the speaker cut him off and said the audio was bad and moved on… the whole system needs to come down Canada isn’t ours anymore…
[Link]
Did he invoke the Act because of a protest? Yes
Has he built a planet sized battle station that can bring the Rebellion to its knees? No
I’d say he’s only gone a half Palpatine then.
And here is another view on the Freedom Convoy.
https://www.theverge.com/2022/2/19/22941291/facebook-canada-trucker-convoy-gofundme-groups-viral-sharing
Spoiler alert: it's not really about the truckers anymore.
They should just shoot them.
chemjeff radical individualist
February.9.2021 at 8:56 am
Flag Comment Mute User
What is there to talk about?
From a libertarian perspective, Ashli Babbett was trespassing, and the officers were totally justified to shoot trespassers. Again from a libertarian perspective, the officers would have been justified in shooting every single trespasser.
Gee, that’s right, they are on public property.
BLM was largely about cops shooting people without justification.
Name one blm protestor shot.
Kyle Rittenhouse shot three and killed two of them, then wasn't sent to prison.
Self defense.
How the fuck do you shoot three people in self-defense? That inbred fat kid was no Rambo.
*In the moment*, it was self-defense.
It was still a completely stupid decision for him to show up there in the first place.
HE CROSSED STATE LINES!
Watch the videos. Watch the trial.
How the fuck do you shoot three people in self-defense?
Marksmanship.
No innocent bystanders injured.
Jesus fuck, I didn't realize even Tony was stupid enough to not understand that sometimes attackers come in multipacks.
That's like, "does not possess a functional visual cortex" levels of brain damage.
You said by police.
They attacked kyle as he ran away.
Next stupidity from you Tony.
Kyle Rittenhouse defended himself against three attackers, one of them a convicted child molester who was trying to blow up a gas station with a fiery trash can.
And he wasn’t a cop.
Goddamn Tony, looks like you stepped in some shit.
It was illegal for him to kill someone for being a child molester and for him to protect a gas station with deadly force, so I don't know why those things are relevant.
Rittenhouse killed him for attacking him and attempting to murder him you dishonest fuckstain.
3 hours of live video from the Ottawa trucker's protest.
Do you think this Youtuber is presenting a fair and accurate representation of the protests?
Funny how the same people who bash mainstream media sources for being so biased, immediately go running to Youtube/Facebook/podcasts that are even more biased than the sources they complained about. Which goes to show that the real complaint isn't that CNN etc. are biased, it is that they aren't biased enough - in the direction that you wish to see them biased.
"Do you think this Youtuber is presenting a fair and accurate representation of the protests?"
It's a livestream, you Nazi fuck.
He's not editing, cutting and repackaging it for frightened boomers like your precious CNN.
Jeff, you are a fascist piece of shit.
It’s interesting really. Jeff’s seething hatred for anyone he perceives as a conservative leads him to excusing or outright defending some of the worst behavior/policies.
For the record, I don't hate conservatives. I hate what conservatism has become. It has devolved from an optimistic ideology of limited government and lower taxation, into a paranoid mess of conspiracies and flag-waving and personality cult and reactionary drivel. Modern conservatism has literally turned into the insane rantings of your semi-senile grandfather at Thanksgiving dinner. Which is terribly sad. There is no way I can sign on to such nonsense.
And modern conservative media exists to INFLAME, not to inform. They are going to stoke these paranoid conspiracies, not debunk them. Time after time, the claims made by right-wing media turn out to be outright lies. Here are just a few examples:
There are no "concentration camps" in Australia.
The Trump-Russia investigation was not a "hoax", and was not an "attempted coup".
The 2020 election was not stolen.
The COVID vaccine is not poison, is not riskier than the virus itself, and certainly doesn't contain microchips.
So I am not going to accept some right-wing youtuber at face value. You want to prove to me that the Ottawa police are doing something wrong? Then you will need more evidence than that.
And you didn't refute anything that I said.
You and Diane and most of the others around here WANT biased news. You WANT news that is only one-sided and flatters your biases and prejudices. You WANT to be told a simple story of good vs. evil, where your side is good and the other side is evil. The world makes so much more sense when viewed through binary filters, doesn't it?
The real world is complex, and just getting your news from one-sided youtubers means you are uninformed.
Perhaps a 22 hour documentary series on qanon is in order.
I posted this late last night, and I'll post it again here, Jake Tapper and his Stockholm syndrom-suffering vacant-eyed infotainment doc are now OUTRAGED that the CDC has misrepresented hospitalizations, conflating hospitalized WITH covid vs FROM covid.
It's really cute how... a the narrative is imploding that suddenly CNN is outraged at these facts and wants ANSWERS!
Sorry, Tapper... cnn, doctor horsepaste, y'all cheered this on, you gave it material support and accused anyone who asked these questions going back to 2020 as being nazis, racists, misogynists and anti-vaxxers. Now you're trying to position yourselves so you're not the last one standing when the music stops.
I say unto you like so much Jules from Pulp Fiction, You ain't talkin' your way outta this shit.
You don't even care whether you have a coherent story, do you? It's just some vague sense that there's a Jew conspiracy behind it all, and any tenuous confirmation is enough for you to feel right.
If CNN is asking these questions, that suggests they aren't part of a Jew conspiracy, right? FOX News is never this skeptical of its partners in government.
Just what claim are you defending here anyway? Which wild leap are you suggesting is permitted? That Covid is no worse than flu, that the Jews are trying to poison your precious bodily fluids? You're just shouting and not saying anything.
CNN isn't going to reposition itself here without notice. Trust me on this. Tapper asking 11th hour questions, showing up to the fire at the very end and emptying his tin cup upon the embers isn't going to work. The music is stopping, Tony, I suggest you start looking for a chair, or a quiet exit, because Jake Tapper is.
Ever consider that the human brain is a pattern-seeking machine, and that all too often people who aren't sufficiently guarded against it will find patterns where none exist?
Conspiracy theories are like clouds. Your brain often sees organization where there isn't any.
Or consider that there are sometimes conspiracies, and maybe the fact that FOX News forcefeeds you inflammatory lies all day for the benefit of a political party might be a pattern.
This is the third time in a week you inserted jews into a conversation nobody else did. Antisemitic?
I'd like you to educate yourself about the nature of conspiracy theories. There's a remarkable consistency, and it stretches back thousands of years, and these "dark shady cabal" type theories originate in the oppression and resentment of Jews in Europe, who were relegated to the financial sector because of random silly Christian strictures about lending.
QAnon fits this pattern perfectly, and if you are skeptical you might want to see how many swastika flags show up to these Trumpist protests you support so much.
You can just claim ypunhate the jews. Makority of the attacks on jews is from leftists like yourself.
Just for the record, Tony has insisted, for years, that the Jews didn't have a right to their lives during the holocaust--because the government said so. Tony would rather insist that the Jews didn't have a right to their lives during the holocaust--rather than admit that our rights still exist regardless of whether the government recognizes or violates them. Make of that what you will.
Here's something similar he posted way back:
"Tony
August.28.2019 at 12:18 pm
If Rosa Parks had the right to sit at the front of the bus then nobody would know her name. The whole point was that she didn’t have the right at that time.
If the Jews had a right to life during the Holocaust, there wouldn’t have been a Holocaust. The whole point is that they had no rights in the most unimaginably horrible way.
You do get that this is almost totally substanceless semantics you’re obsessing about?
A lack of a belief in magic prevents me from saying people have innate rights, but if you want to talk about it that way, it really doesn’t change the political discussion. One thing I will say is that I believe it is more respectful of the concept of rights to recognize that they were extremely hard-won and must be vigilantly defended.
I was the one who originally made the point about Rosa Parks!
He's been insisting for years that Rosa Parks didn't have the right to sit in the front of a public bus--because the government said so. He'd rather argue that Rosa Parks doesn't have any rights than admit that her rights exist regardless of whether the government says so. I originally made that point years and years ago, like ten years ago. At the same time as the argument about the rights of Jews during the holocaust.
He's arguing the same thing as the KKK and Nazis--because he's so fanatically stupid about our rights existing independent of government. He'd rather argue the same thing as the Klan and the fascists than admit to libertarians that our rights exist even if the government says they don't. It's not that he's just a stupid piece of shit. He's also a fascist. If the government told Tony to march libertarians up against a wall, he'd do it in a heartbeat.
Both Tony and Jeff are straight up Nazi in my book.
Shit, he admitted years ago that he would kill all of us for opposing his Will on climate change.
I couldn't have put it better myself.
Ken's assertion is plain factually wrong. There is no Santa Claus and there are no rights "out there" floating in the cosmos. That is a totally incoherent concept.
One can loosely or rhetorically talk about rights by saying that people "have" them, meaning precisely, people "deserve" them. But you tell me what good that does for the Jews in the Holocaust. I just prefer to be precise in my language.
This is not to say that this isn't a real debate among political philosophers going back to people like Aquinas and Bentham, but the "natural rights" people are wrong because magic isn't real.
Don’t worry Tony, MSNBC will still be carrying the dead carcass of your narrative for years to come.
BACK IN 2020, what was the rationale for believing that the statistics were fake? Based on the rantings of random Internet trolls?
Real Journalists, making cogent arguments against masks and lockdowns, July 10th, 2020.
Quick hits: "It's not incumbent upon us to prove they're wrong, it's incumbent upon them to prove that they're right, and they've failed to do so."
Aren't you a little embarrassed knowing that while everyone was in the same boat, some of us took the societal changes in stride, and you guys distinguish yourself only by the sheer amount of whining? If we were being oppressed, we were all being equally oppressed. Do you want a gold sticker for being the least emotionally flexible about it?
Never mind that you guys also spent the entire pandemic stoking anti-vaccine conspiracy theories, ensuring, as much as humanly possible, that things didn't go back to normal any time soon.
You lost, Tony. It's over. You lost.
You wanted society to ignore hundreds of thousands of deaths so that you didn't have to change the way you shopped at K-Mart, and you consider that a victory?
Keep things in perspective:
3 million people die every year in the US.
Okay, 3 million people die every year in the US.
Why the fuck should I care about your taxes being too high? Fuck your problem.
Your problems are called white people problems. You might as well be whining about cork in your pinot grigio. So I'm very sorry that I interrupted your never-ending indulgence in maximum self-pity for minimum discomfort to talk about that extra million dead people.
"hundreds of thousands of deaths"
If you guys weren't constantly lying about everything, like death stats or how church is superspreader but BLM riots magically aren't, maybe people would be less skeptical when you tell them that an untested experimental therapy (that Joe and Kamala were slagging three months earlier), is perfectly safe.
LOL what an idiot.
So because you're intentionally ignorant it is others that were bad?
"...some of us took the societal changes in stride..."
Of course, you did. You are a born serf.
chemjeff was sticking to the subject about statistics about hospitalizations. Why did you jump to "arguments against masks and lockdowns" instead of staying on topic, and answering his specific question?
Chemjeff resorted to strawman arguments to ignore well cited doctors that he disagreed with.
Chemjeff ignored dmed data and statistics because he disagreed with them.
You two are not intelligent people.
That's not what I asked.
I asked, what was the reason, BACK IN 2020, for believing that the COVID statistics were incorrect?
Once again your complaint here isn't that CNN is biased, but that it wasn't biased enough, *in your direction*.
Logic tells you an old tee shirt across your face won’t keep you or anyone else safe.
100 years of science that you were given dozens of citations for.
Only idiots like you believe in New Lysenkoism.
@2112: The whole point of the royal society is to uphold the scientific method. In the interview he supported the wearing of masks, he said he was against randomized control testing... I was astonished.
this has been Vinay Prasad's hobby horse. As Prasad said, the CDC has steadfastly refused to do RCT of masking. If they know that an RCT is the best way to verify that masks work, but they refuse to do one, that makes them bad leaders. If they DON'T know that an RCT is the best way to verify that masking works, then that makes them bad scientists.
It was never our job to prove them wrong, it was their job to prove us right, and people were asking questions about how hospitalization records were being kept, and you were dismissed out of hand. The From covid vs WITH covid debate has been going on a very long time, and for CNN to discover it 24 hours ago tells us all we need to know about how they're trying to reposition themselves to claim "they were always asking the hard questions"
The From covid vs WITH covid debate has been going on a very long time
Yes, it has been going on for a very long time, overwhelmingly based on very little real evidence and instead based on paranoid conspiracies of "they must be inflating the numbers because they get more Medicare money if they pad the statistics". That's not proof, that's conspiratorial thinking.
So I am asking, BACK IN 2020, was there a legitimate, fact-based, evidence-based reason to believe that the COVID statistics were incorrect, which might form the basis of an actual investigative story?
What you seem to be complaining about is that CNN didn't immediately decide to launch an investigative expose based only on the word of random Internet trolls. And I don't think that is a fair criticism.
Remember folks, this is the same guy that agreed with Facebook that the British Medical Journal was a misinformation blog.
Up next, chemjeff tells us that Gray's Anatomy: Descriptive and Applied is a conspiracy theory.
Because the CDC themselves didn’t know how many people died from vs. with?
This isn’t new news. We’ve been discussing the problems with reporting since 2020. You’ve participated in those discussions, usually to poopoo anyone that was going against the narrative.
Stop being disingenuous.
We know they are inflating numbers you utterly retarded moron.
3 different locations audited their covid death numbers and reduced their covid caused death counts by a third.
Or maybe the actual complaint is that CNN should have run a story back in 2020 about the COVID statistics *solely* on the basis that many people thought they were fake, even if they had no legitimate reason to believe they were fake? Is that your complaint?
But I will agree with this part:
If they know that an RCT is the best way to verify that masks work, but they refuse to do one, that makes them bad leaders.
Why would they do that?
One of the tenets on libertarianism is the free exchange of ideas in the public square, no? Why shouldn’t such ideas and concerns not be given thought? Is it because the people raising them did not have the correct credentials?
Thats the result off too many running for the exits with too few exits.
The fake science is being exposed and everyone must get a new posture.
Some socialists think that capitalism inevitably leads to wealth concentration and is not sustainable. The New Deal era was a remarkable revolt against capitalism's natural tendencies, and the last half century has seen a backlash to that reform. They argue that unless workers control the means of production, the capitalists will always undermine redistributive policies. I dunno. I hope that's not the case.
It seems to me that the particulars of the economic system are parallel to and not necessarily causal of the measure of individual freedom in a society. We've had the world's most liberal economic system perhaps, but also the world's largest incarcerated population. These are not unrelated, of course, but a "free" economy obviously doesn't automatically guarantee widespread individual freedom.
And as y'all will be quick to point out, an economy that's at least nominally socialist can come with all sorts of repressions.
Online political-philosophical debates are obsessed with -isms. They serve as purity tests and tribal signifiers and generate more heat than light in my opinion.
Forget the -isms and look at the holistic reality. The economy has evolved and innovated new ways to be, from feudalism and slavery to capitalism to social democracy to whatever comes next.
It's expressly important not to fixate on aligning with any particular dogmatic system. What's important is to apply empirical tests to everything we try. We should talk about the appropriate private-public mix, tinker with it over time, and ditch the tribes and labels.
Some socialists think that capitalism inevitably leads to wealth concentration and is not sustainable.
which it has been proven, irrefutably that socialism leads to the greatest wealth concentration. As Peter Hitchens has repeatedly noted after living in the Soviet Union for several years, wealth was fantastically concentrated to a few party officials.
We've had the world's most liberal economic system perhaps, but also the world's largest incarcerated population. These are not unrelated, of course, but a "free" economy obviously doesn't automatically guarantee widespread individual freedom.
No it does not because we've adopted an odd kind of corporatism and neo-liberalism which asserts various "interventions" into the capitalist system, small but important examples would be the highly regulated healthcare system-- certificates of need to build hospital beds etc, price controls on various forms of healthcare etc.
t's expressly important not to fixate on aligning with any particular dogmatic system.
This I agree with. Avoid utopian systems (and yes, I'm looking at you libertarians) because they don't work and are impractical when taken to their ultimate ends (as the Germans have found out repeatedly).
Good. And I already said that socialist states can be oppressive. I suggested that economic and political systems are parallel rather than necessarily connected. If you have an autocratic political system, that's the source of oppression, and the economic system, whatever term you use for it, won't save you.
But it's a mistake and a bit of propaganda to automatically equate socialism with autocracy. You can have whatever form of government you like, and the point is that the economic system may favor boss-owned companies or worker-owned companies.
The interesting thing is how much capitalists insist that, even if they love democracy, the workplace must be autocratic. Only democratic socialists are consistent about wanting democracy across the board.
"We've had the world's most liberal economic system perhaps, but also the world's largest incarcerated population."
The large incarcerated population was largely a function of the drug war.
Incarcerating people for growing, manufacturing, distributing, selling, and buying a product isn't an excellent example of a liberal economic system.
That's an example of socialism.
Socialism is when the government inflicts itself on the market, and incarcerating people for engaging in trade is an extreme example of that. Capitalism is when the government restricts itself to protecting property rights. No, you can't call the cops because you were ripped off by your drug dealer. No, you can't sue your drug dealer for fraud.
The government has decided not to enforce property rights in that trade. The cops even confiscate whatever money they find with your drugs. The government throwing millions of people in prison for engaging in trade may be the worst example of a free market ever.
Yes, but Tony is really stupid.
In some ways, it seems like being stupid is a prerequisite for being a progressive. I think it's actually that they devote themselves to irrationality in an aggressive way. Refusing to listen to facts and logic, isn't that a big part of what they mean by "leaning in"?
But you actually believe that among all of the mainstream sources of news in the world, only FOX News has facts and logic. Even though it will say one day that civil rights protests are bad because they are chaotic and economically disruptive, then the next day say they are good and just no matter how disruptive.
Is it really stupidity, or is it just willful ignorance and malice?
"Socialism is when the government inflicts itself on the market"
No it isn't. All markets exist under governments. Socialism is simply when workers control the means of production instead of owners.
I suppose a socialist system could find reasons to punish users of certain drugs while subsidizing worse drugs, but one benefit of socialism is that, in theory, worker-owned enterprises would have a broader scope of concern than mere profit.
… a broader scope of concern than mere profit.
Then they would soon be out of business.
Profit is what the boss takes home. Worker cooperatives, not having bosses, can care about other things. A business is a business, but even the top-down money grubbing sort employ some measure of social concern, whether it be employee perks or political activism. Worker cooperatives are simply more likely to prioritize worker well-being.
The government throwing millions of people in prison for engaging in trade may be the worst example of a free market ever . . . and Tony is attributing this to a liberal economic system?!
That is genuinely stupid. That's what stupid means. Maybe it's just ignorance.
According to this chart, 45% of federal inmates are in prison for drug offenses.
https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp
i'm doing exactly the opposite of what you're saying. Do try to read carefully.
The fact that the world's most liberal economy is part of the same society as the world's highest incarceration rates proves the case that a liberal economy and a free society are not synonymous.
As a capitalist (until such time as the revolution is at hand), I think a liberal economy is part of the freedom package, and it sure would be nice if the politicians who spend all their waking lives trying to lower taxes would take a few minutes to increase the freedom of millions of wrongfully incarcerated people and millions of drug users as well.
Some socialists think[.]
It was a lie in the first three words anyway.
Live now, streets of Ottawa.
Trigger warning: Dirty working class.
It's like the late 18th century all over again. Haute bourgeoisie and the political aristocracy are hating on the proles.
I do hope Trudeau and all his little Schwabite pals go the way of the Bourbons though.
Ontario Provincial Police who are tasked with moving the truckers do not have a vaccine mandate. Never went to the negotiating table.
Irony? You decide.
They're not truckers. Truckers are opposed to this whatever it is. Those are QAnoners organized on Facebook.
I'm almost excited to see what hijinx they get up to next.
Look, your shoe's untied!
Joke's on you, I rarely wear shoes, and even more seldom do they have laces.
That poor huh.
Too stupid to tie them more likely.
Good point. Wonder if he knows about velcro
I dated a Korean girl once and the habit stuck.
No, thats the stitches from Tonys lobotomy surgery.
Cite?
"They're not truckers"
Yeah, those hundreds of trucks they're driving were illusions. If you ever watched the livestreams you'd realize how all the Davos propaganda your spouting is total bullshit.
I don't think Tony understands you need a Class One plus Airbrakes to drive a rig. You can't just fake being a trucker.
He needs to answer for his crimes against humanity.
All leftists do.
Translation:
" I was caught lying.
Who do I blame?"
Uh, science?
Doing things outdoors, in the middle of texas. When we had a snowstorm and below freezing weather? Are you kidding me? We don't go outside in cold weather.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1495089674385248263?t=zEu89qsiRFu4OcxlnMsC8Q&s=19
That "anti-vaxxer" is something people say with a straight face knowing it means about ten different things with wildly different consequences is evidence that Communist manipulations of language are highly effective when people aren't being deliberately discerning.
Tyranny by lazy shorthand run by malicious deceivers.
https://twitter.com/ConceptualJames/status/1466856015689924610?t=MsZcShuCnnV3BSkIW8AEdg&s=19
This fact is true because the Leftist worldview believes language creates reality. Oppression has to be named to be "made visible." They believe this about their own abuses too, so they overreact badly whenever something bad they are doing is accurately named.
Fine, let's name things. People who foam at the mouth with a vague and omnipresent hatred of nameless "leftists" are fascists, and they always end up trying to mass murder everyone.
OK Humpty Dumpty, if you say so.
But in the real world, fascism is left wing.
(National Socialist German Workers' Party)
(National Fascist Party/Fascists promoted a corporatist economic system whereby employer and employee syndicates are linked together in associations to collectively represent the nation's economic producers and work alongside the state to set national economic policy)
See, workers socialist, workers and corporations working with the state; any of this sound familiar?
Have you paid any attention to the very lessons I'm imparting in this thread?
First of all, fascism is definitionally a far-right thing. I believe both the terms "fascism" and "far right" are only so descriptive, however, and apparently some of you are terminally confused about how a far-right political ideology can pair with an ostensibly leftist economic philosophy.
I think it's more useful to generalize, since these things are so remarkably consistent from one fascist shithole to the next. A genocidal authoritarian political ideology can pick whatever labels for its economic system it likes. At times in history, socialism was popular. Right-wing populists are perfectly comfortable operating in any economic system, but whether they tend to capitalism or socialism, they're neither really, because there is neither freedom for capitalists nor freedom for workers in an oppressive autocratic regime.
The media went from " reporters" who went OUT into the world to gather information, to " journalists" who should be doing so, but are so lazy and uneducated to leave the room and have substituted fact for internet rumour.
No one in the " news" knows anything. Its then convenient to substitute news with politics bc that not only doesnt take any effort to go out and see the world, but also no thought.
Deep Thought became Deep Fake.
42.
The best article I have read here in weeks; informative, balanced, and intelligent.
Joy Behar upset that New york is dropping its mask mandate says on the View that she'll wear her mask forever.
3 hours later.
To be fair, Behar criticized the bullshit shifting guidance on masks, then cloth masks, then surgical masks, then only n95 masks so she decided she's going to listed to the first lawful order she received which was "mask up". Unfortunately, like so many of our local commentariat, she doesn't believe any of it.
Listen to the experts!
Wait, what? I'm thinking for myself!
So one TV person briefly failed to live up to a strict standard she applied only to herself. Obviously that means we should reinstate Trump as president.
It's worse to be a hypocrite about masks then to demand the entire medical sector bow to your demands never to be inconvenienced in the slightest way.
"she applied only to herself."
So all the times she called for mask mandates on TV were deepfakes?
Good. Shell die sooner.
Feature !
The first order she received was to NOT wear a mask because the front line health care workers need all of them. You know, the same workers now getting fired for not taking experimental vaccines.
O/T: Who Audits the Auditors?
https://www.azmirror.com/blog/arizona-audit-contractor-slams-grifters-airs-grievances-with-cyber-ninjas-in-new-report/
Shiva Ayyadurai, the subcontractor who conducted a botched analysis of Maricopa County’s ballot affidavits as part of the Senate’s review of the 2020 election, slammed the “audit” leaders as “self-serving grifters” in a new report.
Ayyadurai completed an analysis of the digital images of nearly 2.1 million ballots cast in Maricopa County during the last general election. But before he explained his findings in the report he issued on Thursday, Ayyadurai took “audit” team leader Cyber Ninjas to task for alleged problems with the review, airing issues with the election review and disparaging those he accused of enriching themselves while ignoring critical issues.
Wait, the Arizona Audit attracted grifters and other miscreants? Say it ain't so!
Also, this gem:
Former Cyber Ninjas CEO Doug Logan raised at least $5.7 million from outside sources for his review, but has said the entire election review — which went months longer than expected — cost at least $9 million. However, Logan has refused a court order to turn over records related to the review, including documentation showing how that money was spent.
So, the auditor is refusing to be transparent about his operations. Hmmm.....
Maybe Arizona Republicans will give up on endless rehashing of the 2020 election results in time for the 2024 election. Maybe.
Maybe marc Elias will stop trying to change election laws to all elections that then get tossed by the Supreme Court fuckwad.
O/T: Uh-oh. A boat of luxury cars is on fire. No word yet on the monocle shipment.
https://www.reuters.com/business/container-ship-carrying-volkswagen-vehicles-catches-fire-near-azores-2022-02-18/
Sorry to hear you can’t afford a nice car.
Oh well, not like we are in the middle of an unprecedented supply chain problem for new automobiles. Doh!
The three reasons oil prices are rising despite increases in production:
First, a second successive year of extraordinary demand growth is putting massive pressure on infrastructure and global logistics. Shifting crude from well-head to pump is proving problematic.
Second, oil has joined in the general commodity rally of the last 18 months and has had an important interplay with gas along the way. Super-high gas prices in Europe and Asia have encouraged arbitrage and some gas-to-oil switching, albeit much lower volumes than many feared. Both factors helped pull up oil prices.
Third, there have been multiple threats to global liquids supply in the last few months: civil unrest in Kazakhstan, which briefly reduced production; political disputes and pipeline outages in Libya; ongoing militant attacks in Nigeria; drone attacks on the UAE; and now the mounting tension in the Russia-Ukraine crisis. Together, these have heightened fears of a supply shortage.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/woodmackenzie/2022/02/17/why-oil-is-nudging-us100bbl/?sh=4b8e53857ab5
Wait, I thought the President had a little dial on his desk labeled "oil prices" and he could turn the dial up and down on a whim, and that Biden was deliberately turning the dial to eleventy because he hates America. You're telling me there's more to the story than that? No way!
Biden said he would “work like the devil “ to bring down oil prices.
Are you saying he is lying?
More bullshit than a lie.
turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit; see here:
Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2
April.20.2021 at 10:47 pm
“Ashli Babbitt attacked the USA much like the 9/11 hijackers did.”
The asshole kiddie porn addict lefty shit turd here seems to fantasize that ‘trespassing’ on public land = flying an airliner full of passengers into a skyscraper.
There are few more obvious examples of turd’s imbecility and dishonesty than this.
turd is a TDS-addled lying pile of lefty shit; see here:
Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2
April.20.2021 at 10:47 pm
“Ashli Babbitt attacked the USA much like the 9/11 hijackers did.”
The asshole kiddie porn addict lefty shit turd here seems to fantasize that ‘trespassing’ on public land = flying an airliner full of passengers into a skyscraper.
There are few more obvious examples of turd’s imbecility and dishonesty than this.
President responsible/president not responsible oscillation wave is hard to keep up with.
And one more thing:
If this is the end of the neoliberal era, what will come next?
I'm not terribly optimistic that what will come next will be better than neoliberalism, from a libertarian perspective.
With luck, it will be something you are against.
God preserve us all if Jeff gets his druthers.
You believe the libertarian perspective includes shooting people for trespassing.
Stop claiming you understand the libertarian perspective.
Well, hopefully it'll be one where free expression is respected, and at least a hat-tip to the Bill of Rights is made. Not to mention a little less centralized control from self-anointed elites with little to no connection to the people they rule over.
https://twitter.com/ClintEhrlich/status/1495146456986300416?t=u4JzsiHJ-yUUJxiUWVqegA&s=19
Russian state television is now broadcasting a long segment about Biden hiring a drag-queen fetishist to supervise U.S. nuclear waste.
Whatever you think about this person's private lifestyle, publicizing it is harming America's image abroad.
[Link]
Clearly, the solution here is to hold our moral beliefs hostage to the worst dictators of the world, for fear that they will "make fun of us".
Or, maybe don't hire a bunch of deviant freak show diversity hire weirdos. This administration is a fucking clown car of circus freaks. They just keep coming.
Point ! Score !
Creepy Clown Show at that.
Because obviously, someone who is a drag queen is incompetent at their job and only a "diversity hire". No, no prejudice there.
Ok, groomer
"hold our moral beliefs"
Sure thing, Elagabalus. A creepy attention whore is now a moral belief.
Competence is right wing.
So drag queens are incompetent at their jobs?
https://twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/1495176988293836800?t=Fq4ZP8PbH25UhLepVE7KOg&s=19
Ottawa Police Chief Confirms Federal Law Enforcement Will Use Intelligence Gathered to Continue Investigating, Hunting, Targeting and Arresting Protest Attendees Long After Protests End
[Link]
It's not about dispersing the protestors. They defied Trudeau and made him look like a ineffectual pussy. They must be hunted, shamed, and punished for that.
He IS an ineffectual pussy.
They should get a medal.
^+1
https://twitter.com/martyrmade/status/1495186632604995585?t=pJmy-rhlcX5vUSdL0n-FuQ&s=19
American and Canadian authorities kneel before protesters waving communist flags, and viciously attack protesters waving American and Canadian flags.
https://twitter.com/emeriticus/status/1495197871561392137?t=8KFCI0rSY5EEq0gJzPS5rw&s=19
The bravery of these people is incredible, when you consider that unlike BLM, they have essentially zero institutional support.
[Link]
Boris Johnson joins war scare
Ukraine: Russia plans biggest war in Europe since 1945 - Boris Johnson https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60448162
You know who else planned a big war in Europe?
Yup!!!
Woodrow Wilson?
Weren't the Russians supposed to have invaded like last Tuesday or something?
But THIS time it’s REALLY imminent!
Vladimir Vladimirovich, this is your golden opportunity to make complete fools out of western leaders, their intel services and the western media by just saying “BOO!” and then BACKING THE HELL OFF this shit!!!
https://twitter.com/bell00david/status/1494819319825399812?t=QQby4SRqRaA5yCnO0secRQ&s=19
1/9 Debunking conspiracies.
Early 2020, conspiracy theorists predicted nonsense about compulsory masking, coerced mass vaccination (even children!), & outlandish stuff on digital currencies and government control of the right to spend & travel based on social credit scores.
2/9 Tin hats, all of them, and rightly denigrated.
We live in democracies, have human rights treaties & courts to uphold them, we elect our governments. We run them, they don’t run us. The virus kills >75yo 1000x more than children. Vax programs would be scientific, targeted.
3/9 Lockdowns were needed to flatten the curve. China had showed they worked (and we had no reason to doubt information released from China). We even had wealthy software developers who paid mathematical modelers to confirm this new public health approach was necessary.
4/9 Then Science said masks work after all, they stop aerosols like Swiss cheese. And small businesses spread Covid, and Amazon deliveries don’t. And curfews to stop people meeting at night would keep us safe. And because Covid targets fat people, we should close parks and gyms.
5/9 And because kids are poor transmitters, they are a threat to grandparents, to teachers, & the public. Kids should eat outside, stop talking, stop playing. And all old the science on faces, language and development was wrong. New Science said so. Masks were safe & effective.
6/9 And vaccines need mandating, & non-compliers should be stopped from eating in restaurants, because Scientists and Experts said the vax stops transmission, and minorities who remembered what slave-owners do should be punished. Our duty to others. Respect.
7/9 Then the Experts recommended boosters, because safe & effective vaccines don’t stop spread. Or often sickness. But that’s why they are safe & effective. Science tells us numbers are good for Covid deaths, but misleading for vaccine deaths. Mis-information threatens us all.
8/9 And governments are right, and corporations are there to help us. They care. So it’s actually good, after all, to cancel bank accounts of those who doubt such truths. Because stupidity, blindness & compliance are safer than thoughtfulness and outdated ideals like ‘freedumb’.
9/9 So in the end those who thought they were anti-fascist were fascists all along.
And the ‘fascist’ conspiracy theorists are just unable to grasp the advantages of fascism.
If everyone just did as they were told, and got injected, and shut up, we would all be safe as slaves.
The movie Kill and Kill Again has a prime example of this concept. S African martial arts movie.
A power mad Nazi wanna be dictator is forcing his subjects to get " reinforcement injections " of his mind control drug.
That = This
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YGmYK128FNQ
History Question.
An old Warner Bros cartoon depicted two gangsters robbing a retail store and instead of taking a pile of money the business owner had, they stole a clock.
What did that refer to?
https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1495232670497918976?t=pnxRa5F9x6tXo41Hf7ZyBg&s=19
1. This is the most scandalous story of the trucker rebellion.
A WhatsApp chat group of Mounties boasting about the cruelty & violence they plan to use against peaceful protesters, and laughing at injuries done to civilians.
This was leaked by the one honest cop still in there.
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5. But then it gets darker, quickly. Cst. Nixon sees himself -- and the rest of the RCMP -- as fascist punishers. That's their self-image; it's who he thinks they are, and he says it, and he is not corrected. "Time for the protesters to hear our jackboots on the ground."
8. Then a woman named Marca chimes in. "Just watched that horse video -- that is awesome!!!" Three exclamation points. "We should practice that manoeuvre."
Nixon is excited that someone shares his sense of cruelty and punishment. "Agreed!!!" he says. Three exclamation points.
12. We saw this in action today. We saw police gleefully attacking civilians, inflicting pain and violence on purpose. They bragged about it; they were ostentatious about it. They beat our reporter with a stick, and shot her with a riot gun:
15. Trudeau called the truckers racist, misogynist, Nazis, intolerant, violent, dirty, "those people", "intolerable", etc.
Trudeau dehumanized them. How could you fire these depraved Mounties, but not their leadership that shaped them this way?
17. Normally the Media Party loves to rip apart the RCMP, the @CanadianForces, or any other "macho" bastion they haven't yet completely woke-ified. But in this case, the cruelty is exactly what they want. They love the violence and bullying. If anything, they'll get promotions.
It needs to be repeated constantly that the OPP (Ottawa Provincial Police) are exempt from the vaccine mandate.
https://twitter.com/Oilfield_Rando/status/1495158714990571522?t=9bStQ8utyBXaCLcl6jO2Nw&s=19
Hey normies, remember when the tin foilies told you the anti-police brutality agenda had nothing to do with police brutality?
Well, you see the video coming out of Canada. Do you see any outrage from the usual suspects in American media or politics?
Actually, I see a bunch of those people cheering.
I hate Alberta Premier Jason Kenny with a passion. He's a corrupt, fat weasel.
But I do support this:
Jason Kenney
@jkenney
Alberta will launch a Court challenge of the Trudeau government’s invocation of the Emergencies Act, because it is:
- unnecessary
- disproportionate
- violates natural justice
- intrudes into provincial jurisdiction
- creates a dangerous precedent.
https://twitter.com/jkenney/status/1495153369538723843
Interesting that the Govts response is never to mind the People when it goes against their Authoritarian power grabs.
It's possible that Jason Kenny knows how to read a room.
I wonder if it's a thing that Twitter does on purpose, that every immediately visible response to that post is opposed to it. Certainly gives the impression that the vast tide of opinion is in favor of the Emergency Declaration.
Googles been doing that for years, rigging the search results to favor Left Wing sources agreeing with the LW memes.
15 yrs ago it was a darn fine search engine.
This is why labels are so unimportant. I like people who have good ideas (usually based in autonomy and freedom), and dislike people who have bad ideas (usually based in trying to control or police someone else's actions, thoughts, and words). Regardless of which is labeled neoliberal, or socialist, or capitalist, or racist, or progressive, or Nazi, or.......anything, good ideas are good and bad ideas are bad.
It sounds like you value truth. It is the only thing we all share in peace.
You’ll have a good impact when you stand up and advocate for truth especially when liars try to coerce you to do otherwise.
Sort of like trying to figure out what 'reason' means by libertarian, and how that differs from Bernie Sanders Stalinist Socialism.
Thank you for this very instructive article.
I was also wondering about the word "liberal" itself. In France, it kind of means libertarian. But in the US, it seems to be almost a synonym for leftist. Why? I mean "liberal" comes from "liberty", right?