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Facebook Said My Article Was 'False Information.' Now the Fact-Checkers Admit They Were Wrong.

While this is a problem, it's not one that scrapping Section 230 would solve.

Robby Soave | 12.29.2021 8:00 AM

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On Monday, I received a rather curious notification on Facebook. A friend alerted me that when she tried to share a recent article of mine, the social media site automatically blurred the accompanying image, replacing it with the ominous declaration that the link contained "false information checked by independent fact-checkers."

The article in question was this one: "The Study That Convinced the CDC To Support Mask Mandates in Schools Is Junk Science." As the Reason Roundup daily newsletter (subscribe today!), it contained information on several other subjects as well, but Facebook made matters fairly clear that the fact-checkers were taking issue with the part about masks in schools. Attempting to share the article on Facebook prompted a warning message to appear: This message redirected to an article by Science Feedback, an official Facebook fact-checking organization, which asserted that "masking can help limit transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in schools" and it was false to say that "there's no science behind masks on kids."

Since I had never made this claim, it was odd to see it fact-checked. Indeed, the purveyor of false information here was Science Feedback, which had given people the erroneous impression that my article said something other than what I had actually written.

Screenshot
(Screenshot)

The source for the article was a recent piece from The Atlantic's David Zweig. My claims were not really unique at all; rather, I had summarized impressive, original research performed by Zweig that demonstrated that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) had relied on a flawed study to conclude the school mask mandates were beneficial.

"Masks may well help prevent the spread of COVID, [some experts] told me, and there may well be contexts in which they should be required in schools," wrote Zweig. "But the data being touted by the CDC—which showed a dramatic more-than-tripling of risk for unmasked students—ought to be excluded from this debate."

According to Zweig, the study in question—which was conducted in Arizona—had all sorts of problems. Researchers did not verify that the schools comprising the data set were even open during the time period in question; they ignored important factors like varying vaccination rates; and they counted outbreaks instead of cases. The study's subsequent finding—that schools without mask mandates had far worse COVID-19 outcomes than schools with mask mandates—should not have been so readily believed by the nation's top pandemic policy makers.

That's it. Neither Zweig's article nor mine makes the claim that masks don't work on kids, or that masks fail to limit transmission in schools. Both addressed a single study that concerned mask mandates.

Intriguingly, Zweig's article did not receive the same "false information" label. When I attempted to share it on Facebook, I received no warning. My Reason article, on the other hand, generated the following disclaimer from the social media site: "Pages and websites that repeatedly publish or share false news will see their overall distribution reduced and be restricted in other ways."

Facebook relies on more than 80 third-party organizations to perform fact-checking functions for the site. These were chosen by the company to serve in those roles; they do not have the power to remove content, but once they have reviewed a post and rated it as false, the social media site will automatically deprioritize it so that fewer users encounter it in their feeds. This gives the fact-checkers considerable power. They also handle the appeals internally.

Their decisions can be controversial. John Stossel, host of Stossel TV and a contributor for Reason, has accused Facebook fact-checkers of "stifling open debate." Stossel has also landed himself on the wrong side of "false information" labels: Climate Feedback, a subgroup within Science Feedback, labeled two of his climate change–related videos as "misleading" and "partly false." Stossel's situation is similar to mine in that the fact-checker attributed to him a claim—"forest fires are caused by poor management, not by climate change," in this case—that his video never actually made.

"In my video arguing that government mismanagement fueled California's wildfires, I acknowledged that climate change played a role," Stossel explained in a subsequent video summarizing his side of the dispute.

Stossel eventually succeeded in getting two Climate Feedback editors to admit that they had not watched his video—and after they had watched the video, they agreed with him that it was not misleading, having noted that both government mismanagement and climate change have contributed to forest fires. But Climate Feedback still did not "correct their smear," according to Stossel.

I've had better luck. I contacted both Facebook and Science Feedback, seeking clarification and correction. On Tuesday, Science Feedback admitted that they had flagged my article erroneously and that they would remove the "false information" label.

"We have taken another look at the Reason article and confirm that the rating was applied in error to this article," they wrote. "The flag has been removed. We apologize for the mistake."

I asked for additional details, and receive this note from Ayobami Olugbemiga, a policy communications manager at Facebook.

"Thanks for reaching out and appealing directly to Science Feedback," he wrote. "As you know, our fact-checking partners independently review and rate content on our apps and are responsible for processing your appeal."

Stossel, it should be noted, is currently suing Facebook, Science Feedback, and Climate Feedback. He acknowledges that a private company has the right to ban, take down, or deprioritize content as it sees fit. Moreover, different individuals and organizations can disagree about basic factual questions like the science of climate change. But he says that in attributing to him a direct quotation that he never uttered, the fact-checkers committed defamation.

"This case presents a simple question: do Facebook and its vendors defame a user who posts factually accurate content, when they publicly announce that the content failed a 'fact-check' and is 'partly false,' and by attributing to the user a false claim that he never made?" wrote Stossel's attorneys in the lawsuit. "The answer, of course, is yes."

This is a complicated issue because social media companies and other websites are typically immune from defamation lawsuits aimed at the speech of other actors on the platforms under a federal statute known as Section 230. This statute does not treat all speech that occurs on Facebook as Facebook's speech: One user can sue another user for libel, but they generally can't sue Facebook. There is an exception, of course, for the company's own speech—it would be possible to sue Facebook over a press release, or online statement made by an employee. Facebook has claimed that its third-party fact-checkers are independent and distinct, though the company has acknowledged that it does pay them.

There are many Republicans and Democrats who want to scrap Section 230 entirely: President Joe Biden, former President Donald Trump, Sen. Josh Hawley (R–Mo.), and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) have all denounced the statute's protections for Big Tech companies. Getting rid of Section 230 wouldn't solve the problem of overly aggressive fact-checking and content moderation, though. On the contrary, it could very well exacerbate it. The more liability Facebook is subjected to, the less permissive it is likely to be.

But that doesn't mean the status quo is particularly satisfying. It's good that the fact-checker reversed course in my case, but needless to say, Facebook should revisit its formal, contractual relationship with an organization that routinely misquotes the people it scrutinizes.

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NEXT: We Said Good Riddance to the Afghan War in 2021. Unfortunately, It's Not Actually Over.

Robby Soave is a senior editor at Reason.

FacebookSection 230John StosselFree SpeechPandemicMasksSocial MediaCensorship
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  1. wreckinball   3 years ago

    They are not fact checkers. But they are checkers

    1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

      They "check" facts to evaluate their comportment to Democratic Party narratives. This process is much like "checking" in hockey, where a defensive player crashes into the opponent who's handling the fact, leading with the hip or shoulder, and resulting in a collision.

      Politico is particularly good at fact "checking", and even Snopes will dabble.

      1. Nardz   3 years ago

        Zaxbys manager:
        "Next time you come in please wear a mask because we have people working who are sick & it would make them feel more comfortable."

        I'm not sick, but you want me to bow down to totalitarian signaling to make people who are sick comfortable?

        1. DenverJ   3 years ago

          Why are sick people at work? Shouldn't the manager send them home?

      2. JWatts   3 years ago

        "Politico is particularly good at fact "checking", and even Snopes will dabble."

        Ever since the husband / wife couple behind Snopes split and the former husband promoted a girl friend to be chief editor, Snopes objectivity went to crap.

        1. Apollonius   3 years ago

          Snopes has never had objectivity.

        2. Granite   3 years ago

          Snopes decisions many times come down to interpretation or opinion and they are rarely objective. The left lean is staggering.

      3. debo10   3 years ago

        Who 'fact check' the 'fact checkers?' They only 'fact check' when it counteracts their arguments, unless it's a lie from the left. I haven't see many 'fact checks' on 'Build back better,' covid deaths under Biden's administration, crime rates, illegal crossings, Joy Reid's outrageous comments, and Fauci's flip flops. They should call 'fact checking' leftists review.

        1. m4019597   3 years ago

          Juries, when the fact checkers are sued.

    2. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

      Wait till they become Chekas

      1. daveca   3 years ago

        "which had given people the erroneous impression that my article said something other than what I had actually written"

        The natural resultof writing to illiterate morons.

        Fbook is not a fountain of intelligence.

        Its a US Govt data collection and tracking operation.

      2. Goateggs   3 years ago

        "Fact Cheka." I like that -- I'm stealing it.

    3. Barb2554   3 years ago

      This is why ALL social media platforms should live their 230 protections. Once they started suppressing speech and endorsing propaganda it was game over. Hopefully when the Republicans take back the House and Senate in 2022, this will be corrected and social media will be treated like any other publisher if they edit ("fact check") postings.

      1. JWatts   3 years ago

        I have no problem with 230 protections as long as the hosts don't engage in political or mood affiliation type editorialism.

        1. Davy C   3 years ago

          I think in Stossel's case someone may lose their protections.

          No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.

          No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be held liable on account of—
          (A) any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, whether or not such material is constitutionally protected; or
          (B) any action taken to enable or make available to information content providers or others the technical means to restrict access to material described in paragraph (1).

          This protects hosting the content, and it protects restricting the content. It *doesn't* protect making claims about the content, as far as I can see.

        2. Granite   3 years ago

          The real problem, nay travesty, here is that Robby knows people still using fb. Buncha misplaced outrage if you ask me. Where’s the call to action? Who the fuck would voluntarily submit themselves to fb’s choice of news?

          Seriously, I wouldn’t even tell anyone that my friend was getting their news from fb - you’d instantly lose all credibility.

      2. pottfullofpith   3 years ago

        I am pretty sure you and agree, but the article doesn't seem to, and I think the author is missing the point.
        "Getting rid of Section 230 wouldn't solve the problem of overly aggressive fact-checking and content moderation, though. On the contrary, it could very well exacerbate it."
        Well it might or it might not, but without 230 protections, FB would have to decide whether it was publishing or merely providing a platform. As things stand now, they enjoy a heads i win tails you lose position, which invites the kinds of careless slanders Stossel and others are heard to complain about.
        In my view, the act of fact checking/editing/curating/allowing or forbidding is what transforms the "platform" or bulletin board of FB or Twitter into a "publication" such that liability can attach, which is why the curator of the "platform" needs the protections afforded by 230. If I put up a wall and folks glue posters onto it that make claims that are incorrect or untrue, that does not make me liable for their act, does it? And unlike a real bulletin board, a virtual bb can include a feature whereby a reader can himslef edit what he looks at by ignoring or blocking content; no need for an editor/curator/factchecker to do it for him. And if I check a fact for myself and conclude that it is false, I can simply glue a poster up next to the one I have checked to allow anyone who sees the bb later to come to his own conclusion about what the facts are. Presto, everyone submitting articles is a fact checker, just like a well run newsroom from the middle of the 20th century, and everyone reading the articles is responsbile for figuring out "the truth" for himself.

        1. Granite   3 years ago

          Your example here is what fb is trying to avoid. They are much more profitable steering narratives in their favor and telling people what they need to know.

      3. buybuydandavis   3 years ago

        "it's not one that scrapping Section 230 would solve"

        Corporate Profits Uber Alles!

        It's fun watching a former libertarian magazine defend corporate liability carveouts.

    4. The Great Negro   3 years ago

      Don’t you mean Cheka?

      1. Benitacanova   3 years ago

        What cheek!

  2. Union of Concerned Socks   3 years ago

    This problem will persist until the government gets more involved.

    1. Iridium   3 years ago

      > This problem will persist until the government gets more involved.

      Yes, and then you will have a far bigger but different problem, as is the nature of government "solutions".

      1. Veronica Clevenger   3 years ago

        Government always makes it into a far bigger problem.

      2. Granite   3 years ago

        That may be true, but at least all of us will be equally fucked in the ass. As it stands now, one side gets to keep fucking the other, and that’s just not fair.

    2. ThomasD   3 years ago

      This problem exists because government is already involved.

  3. Longtobefree   3 years ago

    Face it, you failed the fact check because the fact is the progressives cannot handle the truth.
    This is full on fascism, and will not end until people stop using facebook.

    1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

      He didn’t fail the fact check. They changed their ruling on his appeal.

      1. Mother's Lament   3 years ago

        Amazing.
        But remember folks, Mike swears he's a libertarian. Don't you dare think differently.

        1. JasonAZ   3 years ago

          He's a sea lion Libertarian.

          1. Chumby   3 years ago

            We can all sea lion Mike.

      2. Inquisitive Squirrel   3 years ago

        It's amazing how much water carrying you do for people.

        1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

          What water carrying? Longtobefree made a sweeping claim about progressives that is objectively not true.

          Soave’s Facebook did end up being posted, which means it is not true that “ progressives cannot handle the truth” (at least in this particular case).

          Are we uninterested in truth around here?

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Why was it ruled against in the first place dummy? You do realize the first 24 hours if distribution matter in news right?

          2. Marshal   3 years ago

            Soave’s Facebook did end up being posted, which means it is not true that “ progressives cannot handle the truth” (at least in this particular case).

            The misleading nature of this comment shows how Laursen is always lying to make progs look better. Even those who fail the censorship are "posted". So he adopts up whatever standard helps his Team pass even if it it not the relevant standard. His operational principle is "anything to help Team Blue".

            Thus his assertion that the original accusation is objectively false is in fact objectively false.

          3. JoeB   3 years ago

            Apologize for lefty censorship much?

            1. R Mac   3 years ago

              Every chance she gets.

          4. Granite   3 years ago

            Is mike here to troll because OBL got boring or something?

      3. A Thinking Mind   3 years ago

        It's not REAL censorship if you can just file an appeal and get the matter settled through arbitration. We're not stopping you from speaking, no, no, no, you're still allowed to speak, we're just going to block the information if it's incorrect and force you to prove that this is information that deserves to be known.

      4. JoeB   3 years ago

        Sorry did not mean to flag. Ybable to reverse.

      5. DarrenM   3 years ago

        It's a "guilty until proven innocent" mentality. It's a good bet that they look at the source and label it "misinformation" without going through the effort of actually looking at it.

    2. Social Justice is neither   3 years ago

      Well that and people like Robby stop apologizing for it and demanding more.

  4. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

    Clearly, Facebook or Meta (whatever the fuck they call themselves) is following the science, Soave. Oh, you thought they were following the classic sciences like logic and biology. No such luck.

    FB follows political science. Evidently, you do too, Soave.

    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

      This is also hilarious as Soave celebrated Barenson being kicked of Twitter.

      1. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

        Soave is past his prime. He lost it, somewhere.

      2. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

        I was chortling my way through the whole article over shit like that.

        Still, glad the Reason writers finally are seeing what's in front of them, even if it took perwonally being accosted to recognize a bit of the issue.

        1. R Mac   3 years ago

          Only 3 months after their own contributor, John Stossel, sued Facebook for defamation.

      3. JoeB   3 years ago

        First the came for the socialists...

        1. Granite   3 years ago

          Then they came for the reason commenters

  5. Jerry B.   3 years ago

    You still qualify for a false claim under the new definition of "false".

    false (fols) adj. 9. That which disagrees with the received knowledge of the Biden Administration and its minions.

    See the latest edition of the Webster's New World Order Dictionary.

  6. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    Don't use Facederp. Problem solved.

    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

      Oh. Because we haven't seen infrastructure providers like Amazon aws do the same things. Youre intentionally ignorant.

    2. Cyto   3 years ago

      Very gently put, Mr. Soave!

      The problem here is twofold... First, pretending that there is a plausible way for there to be "independent fact checkers" that can be trusted to decide what is and what is not true. That idea alone is rife with problems... I refer you to Orwell's Ministry of Truth for one example.

      The second is the facile acceptance of the proposal that Facebook is acting in good faith. We have plenty of evidence on this front to suggest that they are not. Remember, they were at the forefront of this push to block "fake news". Also remember who they employed to be on their first Ministry of Truth panel.... Not experts in truth, but left wing activists, including the one from gamergate.

      Remember, this is not an organic movement. This is a coordinated campaign to control the body politic. Both the progressives and the social media companies agree... They must control the distribution of information and block anyone who disagrees with the progressive movement. The critique from the left is that they are not doing enough.

      Also remember, Fact Checking as a thing was entirely started as a political operation by the left in order to rebut and block any points being made by the right. Entire organizations were created to monitor Rush Limbaugh and Fox News and post daily articles accusing them of lying when they said things critical of the left.

      Even at the very top, these are not "neutral corporations". Remember, Alphabet/Google Chairman Eric Schmidt formed "the Groundwork", a company designed explicitly to help Hilary Clinton and other Democrats by tying directly into the back end of social media companies and thereby manipulate what you see and learn.

      https://qz.com/520652/groundwork-eric-schmidt-startup-working-for-hillary-clinton-campaign/

      The entire "fake news" meme and "Russia did it" concept was part of their cover story. Now it has morphed into a call to action .... "We demand that social media companies do more to protect us from foreign interference!!". And finally to simple, naked censorship of any ideas or people progressives don't like.

      Make no mistake, Soave, if you ever get important enough for them to care, they will come for you too. They are trying hard to stop Joe Rogan... A guy who mostly just lets people talk about their ideas at length. They came after Tulsi for having the temerity to threaten to defeat establishment candidates. They certainly won't have any qualms about shutting down a reporter from a billionaire funded political magazine.

      It is not an innocent mistake, easily corrected by contacting an honest fact check organization. It is an intentional campaign to censor the ideas that people can be exposed to. And nobody should be OK with that.

      1. R Mac   3 years ago

        At this point, I’m just assuming that anyone that doesn’t realize what you just said is on the dole one way or the other.

        1. ThomasD   3 years ago

          It's all a confidence game, full of marks and shills.

          This is Robbie trying to convince us he's not a shill.

          Same as Welch and his last few articles.

    3. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

      Tulpa?

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        Nope. He is that broken.

      2. Dakotian   3 years ago

        I think it is Tulpa. The stupid is different then Sarcasmic's normal stupid. Last week when there were 3 Sarc's I muted 2 of them. This one was one I muted.
        Who knows. Pretty much everyone expects Sarc to say something dumb so it can be hard to tell.

        1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

          You got it wrong. The sarcasmic on this conversation thread is the real one.

          You can tell because if you leave this one unmuted you can see comments he posted months and years ago.

        2. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

          sarcasmic rarely ever says anything dumb. He does say things critical of Trumpism and conservativism, which Trumpists and conservatives perceive as dumb. But that’s their problem, not his.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Lol. Fucking hilarious.

          2. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

            That's 99% of your act.

        3. JesseAz   3 years ago

          Sarc has made these 230 arguments for a year now. There is no difference.

      3. mpercy   3 years ago

        Not according the the user number underlying the comment.

    4. mad.casual   3 years ago

      Problem solved.

      Nope. Congress still violating the 1A (among others) 6 ways to Sunday by granting Good Samaritan protection for blocking and screening of offensive material. Doesn't matter if Congress is granting Good Samaritan protection to Muslims for the screening of offensive homosexual material, they're granting Good Samaritan protection to homosexuals for the screening of offensive Muslim material, they're granting Good Samaritan protections to Michigan fans for the screening of offensive Ohio State fans, or they're granting Good Samaritan protections to some future Ministry of Truth for the screening of offensive material, it violates 'Congress shall make no law', free speech, separation of church and state, free association, right to petition, due process, equal protections... private property and free speech existed before Section 230. All S230 does is defend Congress ability to determine which lies are deserving of special protection and which truths are undeserving of any special protection.

  7. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Giving you recourse to sue for false or misleading representations of your articles would in fact be one of the benefits of scrapping 230. The SV judges that rule on 230 matters due to ToS agreements have extended protections to lawsuits, see Meagan Murphy. So yes, 230 reform would actually have helped you.

    Glad you got bit by your own ignorance. Unfortunately you haven't learned that FB argued under Stosswl that fact checks are opinions so it doesn't matter if they are valid or not to censor. See Twitter censoring tweets saying the vaccinated can infect spread the virus.

  8. Moonrocks   3 years ago

    First they came for Alex Jones, and I did not speak out, because I don't take colloidal silver...

  9. Michael P   3 years ago

    "This is a complicated issue because social media companies and other websites are typically immune from defamation lawsuits aimed at the speech of other actors on the platforms under a federal statute known as Section 230."

    That's only true where the online platform does not have a significant role in the writing or editorial processes. The original writers -- Climate Feedback, in Stossel's case -- are always liable for defamation. Facebook gives them privileged access to interpose their speech in place of others', and so there's a good argument that Facebook shares responsibility for the fact checks.

  10. Daisy   3 years ago

    Yes, I shared this article and had it marked false. I was angry because clearly they didn't even read what was written! I shared the Atlantic article in response. Facebook needs to stay out of my posts. Unless it is pornographic or explicit threats of violence, none of this should be their concern.

    1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

      It’s their social media site. They own it. How much have you paid them for your account on their site?

      1. HorseConch   3 years ago

        Contrary to popular belief, your Facebook account isn't "free". They are using your info to sell ads to people. Without that, there would be no Facebook. They do own it, and by having an account, you agree to the terms of service, but it's not free. The time people spend on there is sold by way of advertising, just like broadcast TV.

      2. mpercy   3 years ago

        Tell me when the baker is free to not bake the cake, then we can talk about private businesses and their 1st amendment rights.

        1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

          That would be a powerful argument if I had ever argued for forcing bakers to bake cakes they don’t want to bake — which I haven’t.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Nor have you ever argued for them to bake only what they want. You wait to be told what to think by the leftist narrative pushers.

  11. Terry Anne Lieber (Don't Feed Tony)   3 years ago

    If Soave says scraping Section 230 wouldn't solve the problem then chances are that it would, in fact, solve the problem. But hey, let's not pounce on this one, shall we?

    1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

      If Soave says something then it must be wrong because Soave is a poopy-head? Impeccable logic! Bravo! Hat's off to you!

      1. sarcasmic   3 years ago

        *Hats*

      2. JesseAz   3 years ago

        Broken.

      3. Salted Nuts   3 years ago

        Tulpa Tulpa!

        1. Dakotian   3 years ago

          Yep!

  12. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

    First off, Section 230 does not grant immunity from defamation along with an unlimited authority to delete content. Moderation with protection from liability is supposed to be in "good faith". The issue is that liability protection has been extended to de facto blanket sratue. It would be one thing if Science Feedback were posting a response to yours and Stossel's posts, but that is not what they are doing. They are giving Science Feedback a privileged position to mar other people's posts and are themselves acting to limit posts Science Feedback and their other "factcheckers" are disagreeing with. To say that this is the factchecker's speech, separate and distinct from Facebook, and therefore Facebook retains Section 230 liability protection is a ridiculous fig leaf. Facebook should be liable for its actions.

    If Section 230 interpretation had remained consistent with the original intent of the statute, it would not be a problem, but 230 has become an enabling act for corrupt behavior on the part of the platforms, in particular at the behest of and in the interest of certain players in the federal government.

    1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   3 years ago

      unlimited authority to delete content

      Facebook can delete anything they fucking want to from their servers (or the ones they pay to use).

      1. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

        Not with liability protection.

      2. mpercy   3 years ago

        And bakers can chose to not do any cake decorations they fucking don't want to make. Oh, wait...

    2. Roberta   3 years ago

      Basically what we all want is for the nets to provide a free flow of discussion without bogging down in spam. There's got to be some legal framework in there that provides for that rather than being corruptible into the sort of enabling act you describe in the way it has. We were able to achieve it with dial-in BBSs and networks thereof; NNTP has been hit-or-miss; I can't believe the Web has somehow broken it all.

      1. Roberta   3 years ago

        Or is it that all institutions in all countries are now under such assault from the "left" that these details are irrelevant? That we are about at the point of shoot first, ask questions later?

        1. Truthfulness   3 years ago

          That's exactly what the left's doing; shoot first, ask questions later.

      2. Marshal   3 years ago

        Basically what we all want is for the nets to provide a free flow of discussion

        Quite obviously we don't "all" want this. That's why left wingers support censorship.

  13. Cronut   3 years ago

    Hey, it's a private company. They can do what they want.

  14. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   3 years ago

    Twenty years ago Karl Rove said that conservatives needed to create their own "alternate reality" to be politically successful.

    WMD in Iraq, spreading democracy in the Middle East, spreading Christianity - all needed a false narrative for conservativism.

    Inteligent Design is another conservative "alternate reality". It is also false of course. Conservatism is built on lies. Trump understood this and ramped up the lies to include "stolen" elections.

    Fact checkers can make a hasty mistake but a corporation like Facebook still needs them.

    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

      Alternate reality... like saying 5 million lost jobs and inflation greater than economic growth are good things? You sure you want to talk about reality?

    2. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

      Soave does not come right out and say it, but that Zwieg's post was not flagged by the "factcheckers" suggests that Reason was being maliciously targeted, not that this was a hasty decision.

      1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

        Or that it is very difficult to uniformly moderate a social media site that receives millions of posts each day. (Which is the point of having Section 230.)

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          It is easy. Clear and concise rules and examples. When the knitting company banned all trump patterns there was little uproar. Their rules were clear. Twitter and YouTube use vague rules that are not defined and have no consistency in enforcement.

  15. Ken Shultz   3 years ago

    The interesting aspect of this is that the Science Feedback article used to justify censoring Soave's post cites government entities--from the CDC to the Department of Health and Human Services.

    https://sciencefeedback.co/claimreview/multiple-scientific-studies-suggest-that-masking-can-help-limit-transmission-of-sars-cov-2-in-schools-contrary-to-claim-in-federalist-ron-desantis/

    In the real world, what's the difference between Facebook using an "independent" fact-checker to censor a story because it contradicts a government agency and Facebook censoring an article because it contradicts the government? When they say the fact-checker is "independent", they mean it's supposedly independent from Facebook--not that they're evaluating the government's claims with any level of skepticism.

    I remain unpersuaded that our rights are not being violated by the government when private parties violate our rights on the government's behalf. If we assume that Facebook did not fix their mistake for Soave, there is an open question here about whether Soave should have a day in federal court over Facebook violating his First Amendment rights, even if--per Section 230--Soave should not have the right to sue Facebook for defamation.

    Robby Soave would also have a day in court over the question of whether Facebook violated his contractual rights--apart from defamation. Assuming Facebook failed to fix their mistake and Soave abided by the terms of service, then Facebook has a contractual obligation to treat his story like any other and redress for contractual violations in court--and IF IF IF judges have ruled otherwise in past cases (in the name of Section 230), those rulings should be overturned.

    1. Cyto   3 years ago

      Citing those same government agencies is no protection.

      YouTube has a similar system, but they employ a "hard strike" system that comes with account suspensions and lifetime bans from the platform. Since YouTube is essentially the largest TV network in the world, getting banned there is a big deal.

      Yet they have banned some of their largest producers for posting factual information ... Even information taken directly from the CDC website.

      There are lawsuits about this and everything. It would be interesting for Reason to cover this in depth. But you don't want your entire site to get shadow banned for being a repeat offender of "misinformation".

      1. Ken Shultz   3 years ago

        You know who else didn't want people spreading "misinformation" that contradicted the government?!

        1. Its_Not_Inevitable   3 years ago

          Woodrow Wilson?

        2. Spiritus Mundi   3 years ago

          Every government, ever.

        3. Moonrocks   3 years ago

          Karen?

        4. R Mac   3 years ago

          Deesarc?

      2. ADL   3 years ago

        "It would be interesting for Reason to cover this in depth."

        I agree, and there are many other topics Reason could cover in depth as well. Honestly, that is why I cancelled my subscription--too many superficial articles lacking in nuance and context. Basically, I feel like Reason writers repeat a lot of leftist talking points.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          It isnt a feeling. They turned the latest corner solely after the media started to declare maybe people were overreacting to safety from covid.

        2. JasonAZ   3 years ago

          "Reason writers repeat a lot of leftist talking points"

          This is absolutely true. Anybody want to guess why it's true? Hint: because they are lefties.

    2. Roberta   3 years ago

      The trouble with contractual rights is, what are his damages? Hard to quantify one's investment in one's assumptions over the usefulness of media.

      1. Ken Shultz   3 years ago

        The award is a question for the jury to decide IF IF IF and after they decide that Facebook violated Robby's contractual rights--and a judge orders that the article should be reinstated. I suspect the cash award would be a function of whatever revenue should have been generated by that one article, but we're no inventing the wheel for the first time here. Judges have ruled on these kinds of cases before.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          The problem is the fact checks also affect other rating agencies that ry on them to rate the integrity if a site. Even if they are later rescinded. Source guard or whatever it is as an example. The browser extension.

    3. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

      Facebook’s terms of service says they can take down posts and cancel accounts, and the user ultimately has no recourse. They should fire their entire legal staff if their ToS said anything other than that, since they are providing accounts free of charge.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        No it doesn't. Also learn about unconscionable legal clauses.

      2. HorseConch   3 years ago

        They are making billions in profit by being a charity. It takes a real moron to believe that they are offering anything for free. That's like saying a broadcast TV station can broadcast whatever the fuck it wants, defamatory or not, because its "free". The have a big user base so they can charge big advertising rates. That user base isn't getting free service, its being used to monetize the platform.

      3. See Double You   3 years ago

        Users are, in fact, giving something in return for Facebook's services, which is data. Just because users do not pay money to use Facebook's services does not mean Facebook isn't receiving valuable consideration. Contract law does not require the exchange of money for a valid, enforceable contract to exist.

        1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

          Yes, but Facebook’s ToS does not offer the contract terms to free-of-charge account holders that some here wish they did. They explicitly spell out that they can cancel your account with no recourse on your part.

          And why _would they_ offer terms that give end uses a guarantee their content will be posted? What is in it for them?

          1. See Double You   3 years ago

            I'm not sure if the arguments have been tested in court, but even if Facebook's EUAs state they can ban a user for any reason or no reason, such a term is arguably unenforceable, especially if Facebook still has access to the user's data. Such a blanket term would render Facebook's agreement with end users illusory and would lack mutuality. It's equivalent to the "we can modify our terms of use whenever and however we feel like it" term. Courts have held the latter unenforceable. See, for example, Harris v. Blockbuster, Inc., 622 F. Supp. 2d 396 (N.D. Tex. 2009).

            1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

              If that esoteric argument ever comes up in court, we will see how it does.

              1. R Mac   3 years ago

                I’m assuming you don’t know what esoteric means. Because the alternative would be even more embarrassing for you.

          2. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Are you even fucking aware that they've even banned people they have sold distribution contracts to dummy? Have you ever even read up on even the vagaries of contract law?

        2. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

          I mean you can try negotiating with Facebook to get them to make a special ToS just for you that offers you guaranteed posting of your content, or you will refuse to use their social site.

          Good luck even finding an email address or phone number to begin those negotiations. Good luck convincing them there is something so special about your content that they won’t just say, “We pass.”

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Mike. You are free to admit you dont know what the fuck you are talking about at any time. You can remain quiet when you're this clueless.

      4. DesigNate   3 years ago

        They provide those accounts because YOU are the product. How do you not understand this?

        1. R Mac   3 years ago

          Dee is really, really stupid. But also a dishonest shill. Makes for a terrible combination.

  16. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   3 years ago

    We know that conservative AM radio is filled with lie upon lie. Numerous anti-vaccine Limbaugh types have died from COVID after pushing their false claims that the vaccine was harmful somehow - and their followers died as well.

    Should the radio station be held liable? After all, they are a platform for right-wing lies? Or should they be censored? Or fact checked?

    I say No to all three questions.

    Now for you all that want to intervene in Facebook's content you would want to do the same for AM radio? I am sure you are all hypocrites.

    I am no hypocrite - I have the same standard for all - Facebook and AM radio. Let them say or not say whatever they wish.

    That is also the libertarian position.

    1. Cyto   3 years ago

      So.... You want censorship online but you don't want censorship on the radio??

      Hmmm.... could it be more of a question of reach and scope of relevance? Because I have a sneaky suspicion that a decade ago you were right there with Pelosi and the democrats calling for a new "fairness doctrine" to combat Rush Limbaugh and AM talk radio.

      But now that he is dead and so is broadcast radio, the action is all online. And magically the exact same people are demanding censorship of things that are critical of them online, just like they did throughout the 90's and aughts with AM radio.

      1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   3 years ago

        You want censorship online but you don't want censorship on the radio??

        I didn't say that and I don't want any "censorship".

        I said the opposite - this:

        Let them say or not say whatever they wish.

        I am more classic liberal/libertarian than any Trump supporter ever will be.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          Lol. You continue to lie about being a classical liberal as you defend the actions of the left. Hilarious. You got raked over the coals last time you made this claim and avoided answering many troubling questions in so doing.

          1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   3 years ago

            Liar. That is all you have left.

            I only defend the actions of the left when they are on the classic liberal side of an issue - gay marriage, reproductive rights, voting rights, drugs to name a few.

            I have said many times as bad as The Con Man was Bernie Sanders would be worse (by a large margin).

            1. Azathoth!!   3 years ago

              I only defend the actions of the left when they are on the classic liberal side of an issue - gay marriage, reproductive rights, voting rights, drugs to name a few.

              You defend the statist actions.

              You defend greater government regulation of marriage.

              The classical liberal/libertarian stance is government OUT of marriage.

              You defend increased government control of health care issues.

              The classical liberal/libertarian stance is government OUT of health care decisions.

              You defend partisan statist governmental control of the voting process.

              The classical liberal/libertarian stance is transparency, accoutability and localization.

              And you defend a massive expansion of government power into a state controlled regulatory drug market.

              The classical liberal/libertarian stance is government has no right to say what we choose to put in our bodies.

              You err, perpetually, on the side of statist coercion.

              1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   3 years ago

                You lie about my positions.

                1. Sevo   3 years ago

                  turd lies. The TDSS-addled piece of shit never does anything else.

              2. JesseAz   3 years ago

                He ran away again lol. Expect QA and Joe for the rest of the day.

                1. MT-Man   3 years ago

                  Ugh that may be worse.

                  1. DesigNate   3 years ago

                    It’s definitely worse.

            2. JesseAz   3 years ago

              Lol. You ran from every question posed to you that you've argued against the classical liberal position on. Such as solitary confinement for non violent offenders.

              You are really going to lie about this like you do about not having posted child porn?

            3. Sevo   3 years ago

              turd lies. The TDS-addled piece of shit never does anything else.

            4. DesigNate   3 years ago

              The left is never on the classical liberal side as their entire world view revolves around a bigger and more intrusive government.

        2. Cyto   3 years ago

          Yes you did. You said "I don't want censorship on am radio" and back to back said you are fine with Facebook having a censorship regime.

          I get that you are trying the grade-school debate team game of redefining words, such that censorship means government laws only, and defining away a coordinated censorship regime that includes the government, the DNC, all of the broadcast and print media and all of the major online platforms as "not censorship".

          But please, that isn't even a hair-splitting argument. That hair was split 2 years ago... We are now at a place where 50 "intelligence officials" will sign a document proclaiming a story to be "Russian Disinformation" and justifying a complete blackout of the story... Even though everyone involved knows the story is true and there is not a single Russian involved.

          You see... In that case we had a huge news story... Not the main story, but the side story about a big number of intelligence officials who were willing to lie on the tlrecord, and an absolute lockstep acceptance of that by the media writ large. How huge is that story? They are clearly in close coordination, because nobody wrote the "holy crap, the CIA is trying to get the media to avoid a political story by lying to the press right here in the USA!!" story. You would think this would get the attention of old school journalists at the NYT... You know, the folks who were there for Watergate and the Vietnam war with all those lies.

          Nope. Not only not interested... Happy to comply and repeat the lie.

          And now here you are.... Pretending to be someone with an actual opinion. Pretending to have an actual independent thought. I wonder... Did you cry when you finally realized that it was all right? The struggle was all right? You had finally won the victory over yourself.... You truly loved Big Brother....

          1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

            "defining away a coordinated censorship regime that includes the government, the DNC, all of the broadcast and print media and all of the major online platforms as "not censorship"."

            So "all of the broadcast and print media and all of the major online platforms" are into censorshit?

            If this is true (arguably it might be; we all chose what lines and lies to support and not support), then HONEST people will 'FESS to the FACT that conservatives censor also!

            PARLER: ‘FREE SPEECH’ APP POPULAR WITH FAR-RIGHT FIGURES BANS PEOPLE FOR SPEAKING FREELY, USERS CLAIM

            https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/parler-app-ban-free-speech-trump-b1721710.html

            1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

              TRUTH Social, baby. Private “censorship” problem has been solved.

              1. Truthfulness   3 years ago

                Guys, read this:
                https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

                Even if we granted SQRLSY One's link to be true, could either of you show that there was government influence in those actions? I suspect not.

                Neither of you believe in the 1st Amendment anyways.

                1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                  Look, duh-head, we ALL to various degrees talk over each other, kick the bums out of our house and our cocktail party if they talk or act too obnoxious, or pick and chose who gets to (and who does NOT get to) be featured on our letter-to-the-editor pages. THIS IS NOT CENSORSHIT! It is called plain "life"! Inviting Government Almighty to mind our business, and get into our shit here, will NOT work out for us, ye silly authoritarians!!!

                  "Could you show that there was government influence in these actions, when and where I chose to shit and pick my nose, in private?" Who gives a shit? Not me, so long as Government Almighty stays OUT of my shit! Hello?!?!

                2. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                  Let's try this a different way:

                  Conservative belly-acher: "Libs in Congress have TRIED to strong-arm FacePoooo into doing what the libs want. They have THREATENED to replace Section 230, so that they can micro-manage FacePoooo. BOOOO-HOOOO!!!! So let's TEACH them! Let's TEAR DOWN SECTION 230 (give them EXACTLY what they want)!!! And we are absolutely SURE that the NEW laws replacing Section 230, will make the libs cry!!! We can PUSSY-GRAB the libs, with new laws! And the libs will NEVER think of using new laws to pussy-grab us right back!!!"

                  Did y'all ever think that the laws can run both ways? That what's good for the goose, is good for the gander? And did ya NOTICE that Trump LOST? HOW are the Section 230 law-replacements going to pussy-grab the libs, forever, unless we get a "forever" 1-party "R" state?

                  Check your history books... Hitler's 1,000-Year Reich lasted 12 years. Trump is an ancient geezer! Der TrumpfenFuhrer's Reich won't even last 12 years!

          2. Sarah Palin's Buttplug 2   3 years ago

            you are fine with Facebook having a censorship

            A private company cannot violate the 1A.

            1. JesseAz   3 years ago

              Yes it can. Prof volokh gave multiple examples of rulings stating companies have. Youre just an idiot.

            2. Cyto   3 years ago

              What does the first amendment have to do with censorship? I mean, sure it blocks government censors. But that doesn't mean censorship is not censorship if the government doesn't do it.

              Changing the actor does not change the nature or effect of the act.

              1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                If a drunk takes over the podium at Church, and the preacher tells him to sit down and shut up, is that odious censorshit also? Shall we get Government Almighty to pass some LAWS protecting the rights of the drunk?

                1. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

                  Are you speaking from experience?

                  1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                    Yes, I was there when Der JesseBahnFuhrer puked up its rot-gut-filled guts, ALL over the podium AND the preacher, and STILL kept on with its totally incoherent "preachings"!

                    FREE SPEECH, baby!!!!

                    1. Sevo   3 years ago

                      TDS-addled spastic asshole's getting a lot of them.

                2. Truthfulness   3 years ago

                  Has the preacher acted on behalf of the government? No. Facebook did, however.

                  You seem incapable of understanding that.

                  1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                    If Der BidenFuhrer ASKS us all to be more civil in our discourse, and I obey his REQUEST, what the fuck business of YOURS is it, authoritarian asshole? WTF did Der BidenFuhrer ever do to YOU? WHERE did he touch you, in a bad way? Show us on the doll, please!

                  2. R Mac   3 years ago

                    Not incapable. Unwilling.

            3. mpercy   3 years ago

              These are two separate, but related issues and you seem to be trying to intentionally conflate them so that negating one somehow proves that the other is not possible. In short, a private company cannot violate the 1A--that's a government action--but still have plenty of censorship.

              OTOH, the government can violate first amendment rights without censorship...the government can force a baker to decorate a cake that is in conflict with his (1st amendment-protected) religious beliefs.

              P.S., how come no one ever goes to a Muslim baker and demand that a cake be made with a cartoon of Muhammed decorating it? Probably because the left would jump to defend their religious rights. Can a gay baker refuse to decorate a cake with Leviticus passages? Inquiring minds want to know.

              1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                "the government can force a baker to decorate a cake that is in conflict with his (1st amendment-protected) religious beliefs."

                That is clearly WRONG for Government Almighty to do that, since NO ONE ever died for lack of a gay wedding cake, and other (freedom) values are at stake. I am glad that conservatives can see that it is WRONG to run whining and crying to Government Almighty that "He wouldn't bake me a cake!" Waaaaaa!!!!

                Now WHY is it that many conservatives can NOT see that it is ALSO WRONG to run whining and crying to Government Almighty that "He took down my post!" Waaaaaa!!!! (No one ever died from their post getting taken down, crybabies).

                1. mpercy   3 years ago

                  I've never run to government crying about my post getting taken down, but I sure have complained publicly about FB, et al., taking down some posts but not others, for being dishonest and disingenuous about their censorial actions, etc. And also complained about government trying to run these companies vicariously through Congressional hearings and strange interpretations of laws.

                  I think *most* (but certainly not all) here are of the same mind on this.

                  1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

                    Well, this illustrates the problem of open discussions on the Internet. There are several participants in each conversation, and we aren’t necessarily arguing with your position, but we are arguing with the more extreme commenters who do want the government to force Facebook to post content that Facebook does not want to post.

                    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

                      It is amazing that you've convinced yourself you have a reading comprehension level above 3rd grade.

                    2. Truthfulness   3 years ago

                      Facebook is still acting on behalf of the government's request. You seem incapable of understanding that.

                    3. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                      FacePoooo's stockholders OWN FacePooo. They can listen to (or not listen to) any requests from anyone, as they chose. When YOU own 51% of FacePoooo's stock, THEN you may boss them around!

                      But NOOOOO... Marxists ALWAYS want Government Almighty to run the WHOLE FRIGGIN' SHOW!!!!

            4. Sevo   3 years ago

              "A private company cannot violate the 1A."

              turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a TDS-addled asshole and a pathological liar besides, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
              If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
              turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

            5. DesigNate   3 years ago

              Unless they are censoring on the behalf of the government.

              Otherwise, they’re just run of the mill censorious assholes.

          3. Roberta   3 years ago

            Wouldn't it be something if we discovered a few years from now that the Russians have indeed been involved and have been a more reliable source of truth?

            1. mpercy   3 years ago

              By then we will have discovered that COVID really was genetically created in a Wuhan lab and released intentionally by China?

              1. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

                Sad to say, that one seems fairly highly likely... Irresponsibly playing with Mamma Nature's nasty viruses at the VERY least!

                1. Sevo   3 years ago

                  TDS-addled spastic asshole gets flagged.

            2. Cyto   3 years ago

              RT indeed features many fine authors from this very site...

    2. Chumby   3 years ago

      Kindergarten variety Cuomo

    3. Sevo   3 years ago

      turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
      If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
      turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit who should fuck off and die.

    4. Sevo   3 years ago

      turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
      If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
      turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.

  17. Cyto   3 years ago

    Part 2, does this have a chilling effect?

    Well, venture outside of progressive circles online and see. The language and culture of online speech is rife with "chilling effect".

    "The Critical Drinker" is a Scottish film critic on YouTube who does humorous movie reviews that have a point of view... Something akin to the 90's Man Show.

    His reviews use weird turns of phrase, directly in response to threats of censorship. When he discusses movie productions that were shut down due to the pandemic, he says "an unknown virus of unknown origin". Why? Because YouTube bans chanels using algorithms that pick up on key words and phrases. Other film critics will call it things like "the coof" for similar reasons.

    Chanels that do legal analysis (featuring actual lawyers) use euphemisms when discussing legal cases to avoid being hit by these ban hammers.

    And the whole thing is sprinkled over with political sauce. You don't see the Young Turks worrying about being banned... Despite repeatedly spouting disinformation and talking about topics like covid policy and gun violence (things that guarantee auto-bans for other creators).

    If you disbelieve the political nature of the actions of these companies, all you need do is look at the language being used online. It is absolutely clear that the censors are active and entirely working on one side of the political debate.

    1. Ken Shultz   3 years ago

      The chilling effect isn't an unintended consequence either.

      Progressives want people to be afraid of what they say. That is what they consider progress.

      They don't want people contradicting them either. They don't want people demonstrating in Washington against them--so they accuse them of being insurrectionists and randomly prosecute people in the crowd. They don't want people protesting against them at school board meetings, which is why Biden publicly sicced the FBI on them--to intimidate average people for fear of being labeled terrorists by the FBI. It isn't just that the chilling effect is real--it's the intended outcome. Progressives want you to be afraid that your career and your life will be ruined if you speak out against them. That is the goal.

      1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

        Can you give a cite to one instance of the FBI actually having been sicced on a parent for what they said at a school board meeting.

        The whole thing was a rhetorical partisan war, in which no actual siccing happened.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          Does a state DA personally involving herself to get jail time for a dad count? What about parents being flagged in a terrorist database? Are you fine with FOIA costs in the tens of thousands of dollars? What about a school board member threatening arrests for disagreeing with them?

          These things have all happened shit weasel.

        2. JasonAZ   3 years ago

          You guys are wasting your time with Mike. He's just doing what sea lions do...sealioning.

          1. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

            Sea lion or sea lyin'?

        3. Cyto   3 years ago

          You are being sarcastic, right? I mean, the actual attorney general of the actual United States Personally involving himself and ordering the FBI's secretive task force on terrorism to closely monitor This exact activity is not enough for you? The fact that the white house actually asked the national school board association to request that intervention doesn't give you any pause at all?

          The fact that the president of the United States was personally involved in using the FBI and the CIA to spy on and frame political opponents for crimes when he was the vice president of the United States doesn't give you any concern that now that he's president he might be doing the same thing?

          Pro tip for all of you paid operatives out there. This is how you out yourself. There is stupid, and then there is pretending that up is down with a straight face. Nobody can take anyone seriously That up is down and doesn't blink.... Not even as a kooky partisan nutjob. At that point it just comes off as if it is 1 of those robotic chatbots that is designed to pass a limited Turing test.

          1. Ken Shultz   3 years ago

            Her ignorance isn't sarcastic, and her stupidity isn't willful.

    2. Moonrocks   3 years ago

      You don't see the Young Turks worrying about being banned...

      Despite literally advocating for genocide with their choice of name.

      1. Moonrocks   3 years ago

        Sorry, that should be advocating for literal genocide with their choice of name.

    3. Mickey Rat   3 years ago

      Center Uigyurs nephew recently got a suspension from Twitch for racial slurs, i.e. "cracker". The howling on the Yiung Turks was something to behold, largely because they Don't think being racist against white people is wrong.

    4. mpercy   3 years ago

      A few months ago I wrote a FB post that got tagged with two different COVID warnings, despite never saying a word about COVID and having nothing at all to do with COVID.

      ------------------------

      So this week I started reading a post-apocalyptic series of novels.It probably falls into the "young adult dystopia" genre, like Hunger Games, but hey, I read a lot.

      Written in 2017 and set not too many years into the future, the story-line follows a group of people who survived a cruise ship hijacking only to find themselves in the middle of a plague that kills 99% of the world's population in a few weeks.

      It seems that the world was already suffering from the "bat-flu" pandemic, and a group of billionaires and the US government (which seems to be owned by the billionaires) were tired of the riff-raff being able to move about freely, and the bat-flu checkpoints, force quarantines, etc., were being protested by "New Patriots" (a group of which also turned out to be the terrorists who attacked the cruise ship...maybe) and the general population. One of the billionaire's companies manufactured a "universal flu vaccine" to combat the bat-flu, and gave millions of doses away on a "National Day of Health". But they had also engineered a new virus, which they intentionally gave to 100,000 "undesirables" during that event, in the hopes that the mass deaths would give them the cover they needed to pass the "Safe and Secure Act" and force everyone to be fitted with a chip that provides instant access to health (infection) status and "contact tracing", but more importantly would give government (and the corporate overlords) constant tracking/surveillance of everyone. All in the name of "health" and "security", of course.

      But oops. The engineered virus mutated in those also infected with the "bat flu" and becomes a "Captain Tripps-like, kills-everyone" kind of virus.

      1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

        Because Facebook no doubt uses some AI algorithm to scan posts for COVID-related
        content, and their algorithm, like a lot of Facebook’s programming, sucks.

        We’re you offered a way to appeal?

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          Is your entire argumentation built on ignorance and bald assertions?

  18. Rich   3 years ago

    policy communications manager

  19. Chumby   3 years ago

    And then they came for me… -Robby

    1. Cyto   3 years ago

      Oh, they have not come for him. Not yet. This was just a quick brake check to ensure that he stays in his lane.

      Robby has really good business instincts to go along with what I suspect is an actual libertarian streak that hates injustice.

      Of course, in this environment these two things are in violent conflict. Most of us would react to overt acts of censorship with righteous indignation and unleash the full fury of our might, railing against the storm.

      Soave is trying to walk down the middle of the road, hewing to the yellow line.

      And, of course, Roddy Piper delivered the line about the middle of the road best in They Live... Which turns out to be an appropriate venue for the warning, given the context of this story.

      1. Cyto   3 years ago

        Reference:

        https://youtu.be/rpJleDGKHz0

      2. mpercy   3 years ago

        OBEY

  20. Azathoth!!   3 years ago

    In some of Larry Niven's fiction there are a series of stories set in 'The State', a unified, totalitarian, authoritarian galactic government.

    In these stories there are people, and AI who have a job called 'checker' whose purpose appears to be checking to make sure that all citizens and non-citizens think and act in accordance with the aims of The State.

    They are empowered to reward and punish up to death.

    As we watch fact checkers amass more and more punitive power, I can't help but wonder just how prophetic this was.

    1. Cyto   3 years ago

      Point well made, and we'll taken.

      One objection that I have in this entire affair is our repeated acceptance of their abuse of language. "Fact checker,". This is the Ministry of Truth version of fact.

      The groups they use as fact-checkers are explicitly political groups that were explicitly formed to oppose the right.

      Notice that they don't even bother hiding it... I mean, the original groups like Media Matters were formed specifically to rebut the right, but I am talking about right now... CNN and NBC provided live "fact check" rebuttals of Trump during the final push of the campaign. They didnt even bother pretending that it was much more than a political stunt. No fact check for team D.

      So the battle is already half lost out of the gate. Calling these guys "fact checkers" is a perfect parallel of the ministry of truth.

    2. JesseAz   3 years ago

      China is trying to empy AI checkers against dissidents as we speak.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        https://nypost.com/2021/12/27/chinas-ai-attorney-prosecutes-crimes-with-97-accuracy/

  21. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

    Fortunately, Donald Trump has launched TRUTH Social, using private market action to solve the private social media censorship problem. We can all move on now.

    1. JesseAz   3 years ago

      Except many of the infrastructure carriers are already threatening him dick wad.

    2. Nardz   3 years ago

      Die. Soon.

      1. Dace Highlander   3 years ago

        Honestly, I would prefer he die slowly. In agony. While being recorded so I could watch it again and again at leisure.

    3. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

      Everything is Trump for you

      1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

        No, it just happens that Trump is the guy who solved the free speech on private social media problem.

        1. R Mac   3 years ago

          Are we supposed to pretend this is an honest comment made in good faith?

          1. Chumby   3 years ago

            Mike intentionally shitposts to get that $0.50, to troll or to generate more visits due to refreshes and posts. As Mike continues to have an audience, Mike continues to post.

    4. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

      If only that were enough to keep his site from being banned by the backbone provider, certificate authority or cloud provider. So many layers of Truth to contend with.

      1. daveca   3 years ago

        ...AND ICANN...

        If you dont surrender a Govt ID theyll close your site...

        Search for Kidd of Speed, woman in Russia who did a photo essay on Chernobyl..

      2. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

        and usually all this is done under pressure from the government three letter agencies but it's FReE mArkeT!

      3. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

        Cite?

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          You need a link to the sealioning definition again?

          1. DesigNate   3 years ago

            It’s pretty amazing actually. His complete obtuseness and general idiocy that is.

            1. Chumby   3 years ago

              White Mike is a troll. The quicker folks mute Dee the quicker the stupidity fades.

    5. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

      Have you already signed on to get your trolling in?

  22. Earth-based Human Skeptic   3 years ago

    Robby: "But I said that the doctrinally-proscribed causes were not entirely wrong."

    Totally-not-a-government-censor: "There you go again challenging the party. Social media license suspended."

  23. CE   3 years ago

    The new warnings will be more generic, to avoid this kind of mix-up:

    "This article has been removed because it does not fit the narrative."

  24. Rob Misek   3 years ago

    The decision to violate our inalienable rights doesn’t belong in private hands any more than partisan government.

    If lying was recognized as the crime it is, for causing harm, then the administration of just punishment would fall upon the courts applying due process.

    1. Sevo   3 years ago

      "The decision to violate our inalienable rights doesn’t belong in private hands any more than partisan government."

      How about the inalienable right not to be stuck in a room full of poison gas?
      Or is it OK if they are jews, nazi?

      1. Rob Misek   3 years ago

        That has never happened.

      2. Rob Misek   3 years ago

        Fact check this fuckwit.
        
         If you think that there is physical evidence for a holocaust, you’re wrong.

        Video, pictures of what? Piles of bodies during war? People in German uniforms? Dime a dozen and easily staged. No photos, none of the equipment that supposedly killed millions. There exists no physical evidence of that at all.

        Prison camps aren’t evidence of a holocaust.

        I’ve refuted “eyewitness testimony” as impossible right here. Every so called witness has either been paid or coerced making their bullshit inadmissible.

        There has been no objective forensic analysis at any supposed site. That means that there is no physical evidence. That probably has something to do with the fact that any activity that demonstrates evidence to refute the holocaust is a crime in every nation where it allegedly occurred.

        The crucial event of the story is the cyanide gassing of millions of Jews. That never happened.

        Fuckwitness Jews wrote books illustrated with pictures of themselves shirtless dragging gassed bodies from the chambers to cremation ovens. This brings tears and shekels to every Jew.

        But cyanide is absorbed through the skin and NOBODY could have survived a single day of such activity much less collecting reparations into their old age reminiscing about it over a game of checkers.

        And so it goes with every bullshit story. The facts prove otherwise.

        Let’s not forget another old timey favourite.

        The story of Babi Yar is a popular lesson in Jewish schools described as the single largest event of the holocaust.

        The lesson is that between 30,000 and 100,000 Jews were taken to a ravine in Ukraine where they were killed.

        The story is told by one Jewish
        survivor, Dina Pronicheva, an actress who testified that she was forced to strip naked and marched to the edge of the ravine. When the firing squad shot, she jumped into the ravine and played dead. After being covered by thousands of bodies and tons of earth she dug herself out, unscathed, when the coast was clear and escaped to tell the story.

        They were stripped naked to leave no evidence.

        She is apparently the only person in history to successfully perform a matrix bullet dodge at a firing squad.

        The soldier aiming point blank at her never noticed her escape. Never walked a few steps to the edge of the ravine to finish her off.

        Naked she had no tools to dig herself out from under 30,000 bodies and tons of dirt.

        Only after the deed was done, the nazis realized that so many bullet ridden bodies were evidence oops. So they brought more Jews and millions of cubic feet of firewood to dig them up, cremate them and scatter their ashes in surrounding fields.

        There has been no forensic investigation at the site. None of the bullets allegedly burned with the bodies have been recovered. Not one shred of physical evidence of this has ever been found.

        There are aerial photographs of the area at the time but they don’t show any evidence of the narrative, no people, no equipment, no firewood, no moved earth, no tracks of any kind.

        Simply stating these facts is a crime in Ukraine where the Babi Yar narrative is taught in school

        Have you ever heard of the Bletchley park decrypts of the famous German enigma machines?

        It was credited for turning the tide of the war as allies knew what military actions the Germans were planning.

        Only released in the 1980s those translated messages included prison camp information, deaths, transfers and requests for medicines to treat illnesses. The numbers of dead don’t support a holocaust narrative which there was also no mention of.

        Are you willingly performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe, as the story goes, that Germans were communicating in code about prison camps while talking plainly about their military actions with their enigma machines?

        The numbers of dead from German enigma decrypts does align with Red Cross numbers.

        The Red Cross regularly visited all prison camps.

        It was their job to report the cause of all deaths. They recorded a grand total of 271,000 among all camps for the entire war. It is a matter of record.

        http://www.renegadetribune.com/international-red-cross-report-confirms-holocaust-six-million-jews-hoax/

        Are you performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe that the Red Cross were so incompetent that they were completely unaware of 95% or 5,629,000 deaths?

        Zyklon B is an off the shelf insecticide used among other places in Prison camps to delouse clothing and bedding to save prisoners lives by preventing typhus. The system used heating to release yes cyanide gas, fans to circulate the gas and more to exhaust the chambers to make the de loused articles safe to handle. Pictures of this equipment and the small de lousing buildings still exist in Aushwitz. But no evidence of any gas delivery system has ever been found in the shower houses where the bullshit holocaust allegedly occurred.

        According to Martin Gilbert in his book, Holocaust Journey, the gas chambers at Treblinka utilized carbon monoxide from diesel engines. At the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi war criminals, the American government charged that the Jews were murdered at Treblinka in “steam chambers,” not gas chambers.

        Gasoline engine exhaust contains about ten times the carbon monoxide than diesel.

        Even if the Diesel engines were running at their maximum of 500 ppm, death would take several hours.

        If zee Germans had used gas engines, death would have been in a few minutes.

        But in the revised bullshit holocaust narrative for treblinka zee Germans chose diesel even though they had plenty of gas for their tanks.

        And Nuremberg charged that they were “steam chambers”.

        Which stupid lie is more believable to a fuckwit? You have to perform some feeble mental gymnastics to buy that.

        Jews had been publicly claiming a holocaust of 6 million Jews in various nations hundreds of times since before WW1. Only for sympathy to raise money and coerce those nations. Like the wastes of skin who fake cancer on go fund me pages.

        The story of gassing Jews began as British propaganda to turn popular opinion against Germany. It was inspired to draw attention away from Jewish Bolshevik war crimes in Russt because that would work against allied propaganda. It also served global Jewish interests to create undeserved sympathy for Jews who had publicly organized boycotts of Germany driving Germany to war.

        There is a documented letter from the head of British propaganda to the head of the war office recommending that they cease the gassing Jew holocaust propaganda because there was no evidence for it and if found out would work against their propaganda efforts.

        The only thing the bullshit holocaust narrative has in common with WW2 is that they were both the creation of Jews.

        These Jewish leaders are admitting it.. Are they lying?

        “We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany”.
        David A Brown, national chairman, united Jewish campaign, 1934.

        “The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany …holy war against Hitlers people”

        Chaim Weismann, the Zionist leader, 8 September 1939, Jewish chronicle.

        The Toronto evening telegram of 26 February 1940 quoted rabbi Maurice l. Perlzweig of the world Jewish Congress as telling a Canadian audience that” The world Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years”.

        http://christiansfortruth.com/1944-information-ministry-letter-proves-fake-holocaust-propaganda-promoted-to-cover-up-real-bolshevik-war-crimes

        1. Rob Misek   3 years ago

          Whatsamatta, no stomach for facts that you can’t refute?

          1. Ben of Houston   3 years ago

            I'm just shocked I heard someone talk so openly about such a bold and absurd lie. All your "points" are irrelevant or outright insane.

            12 million people went missing. We have meticulous records of people being transported to camps and not going back. We have confessions of prison guards about what they did. We have the physical camps themselves. We have our own veterans who found and liberated the camps. We have entire districts of cities being emptied.

            Even if you think all this is fake. Where did those 12 million people go?

            You know. Don't bother. Now that you've shown your true face, I'm going to be muting you after this post.

            1. Rob Misek   3 years ago

              The truth, reality is demonstrated by the inability to refute it and you have refuted exactly nothing I’ve said.

              What you present as evidence is easily refuted as follows.

              Records that you can’t cite as irrefutable, incomplete and illogical as they are, contradicting official Red Cross documents aren’t irrefutable.

              When people are tortured, bribed or facing the gallows will say anything, unsupported by any physical evidence, none of it irrefutable.

              Nothing found in any prison camp is evidence, much less irrefutable of a holocaust.

              Veterans saw and recorded zero irrefutable evidence of a holocaust. Not even a single photo submitted at Nuremberg of the impossible gas delivery system. An important detail.

              After months of direct allied bombiing and subsequent troop advances of course people had to leave areas empty. That’s not evidence of a holocaust.

              There the best you can do, completely refuted in minutes. Can you disprove that?

              You never refuted what I said before because it is true.

            2. Rob Misek   3 years ago

              You haven’t proved that “12 million” people went anywhere.

              You’d like to forget it.

            3. Rob Misek   3 years ago

              Unless you believe as Jews claimed that there were actually 166 holocausts of 6 million Jews each, you are by definition a holocaust denier.

              You wanted to see the face of your bogeyman jew. Look in the mirror.

              Like I said, it was only a matter of time. What’s it going to be, red pill or blue pill?

              http://wearswar.wordpress.com/2017/10/31/repeated-claims-of-6-million-jews-dying-decades-before-hitler-vs-ignored-soviet-death-camp-tolls/

  25. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

    It doesn't matter if your content was factual or not.

    A bunch of ignorant millenial stalinists trying to act as gatekeepers for their truth is just ridiculous.

    1. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

      Yeah, we're very, very confused if we actually believe that there's a fact-checking system...designed to verify facts.

      1. daveca   3 years ago

        verify compliance to messaging...

        2+2 is whatever they say it is

  26. JudgeSmails   3 years ago

    Hopefully, this spells the beginning of the end for FB. Other than business purposes, makes me wonder why people still use it.

    1. daveca   3 years ago

      theyre shallow self absirved Stool Pigeons who have no life.

      FIFY

  27. Diane Reynolds (Paul.)   3 years ago

    Stossel eventually succeeded in getting two Climate Feedback editors to admit that they had not watched his video—and after they had watched the video, they agreed with him that it was not misleading, having noted that both government mismanagement and climate change have contributed to forest fires. But Climate Feedback still did not "correct their smear," according to Stossel.

    I've had better luck. I contacted both Facebook and Science Feedback, seeking clarification and correction. On Tuesday, Science Feedback admitted that they had flagged my article erroneously and that they would remove the "false information" label.

    "We have taken another look at the Reason article and confirm that the rating was applied in error to this article," they wrote. "The flag has been removed. We apologize for the mistake."

    I asked for additional details, and receive this note from Ayobami Olugbemiga, a policy communications manager at Facebook.

    "Thanks for reaching out and appealing directly to Science Feedback," he wrote. "As you know, our fact-checking partners independently review and rate content on our apps and are responsible for processing your appeal."

    I'm not sure if this is the part where we say "the system worked" or we laugh hysterically.

    1. JasonAZ   3 years ago

      Why not both?

    2. mpercy   3 years ago

      Well, does this help make up your mind?

      Mike Laursen
      December.29.2021 at 10:56 am

      He didn’t fail the fact check. They changed their ruling on his appeal.

      1. daveca   3 years ago

        "Ruling" and " appeal"?

        So this assweasel thinks Fuckbook is a Court of law?

        1. daveca   3 years ago

          go away assweasel Mike youre muted. cant see your mouth breathing response

          GFY

      2. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

        And so? Giant social media site with millions of posts per day provided an appeal process. Soave used it, and it worked.

        1. JesseAz   3 years ago

          While causing harm due to article distribution timelines idiot. There are plenty of sources on how the initial tike period an article is written is the most critical on distribution. But you dont give a fuck because they protect your leftist lies.

  28. Dillinger   3 years ago

    don't use facebook.

    1. Truthteller1   3 years ago

      It is truly frightening to know that these "fact checkers" are nothing more than woke millennials in their 20s and early 30s. They don't know what they don't know. A Google search is not the truth.

      1. I, Woodchipper   3 years ago

        ^ This. A bunch of brainwashed millenials who took woke studies classes in college and now willingly play the stalinists politburo for the regime. This is not fact checking it's narrative protection.

        1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

          TRUTH Social will do better on that front.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            Not a leftist!

      2. See Double You   3 years ago

        Why even have courts, trials, juries, judges, or rules of evidence when we have certified "Fact Checkers" to tell us the inarguable Truth in any controversy?

        1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

          It’s a freegin’ _private_ site.

          1. JesseAz   3 years ago

            That the dnc, Whitehouse and government openly admits to colluding with shit weasel.

            Do you even know what actual fascism is? Because this is it.

          2. See Double You   3 years ago

            Mike, it is not so simple as "They're a private site". We know government officials have used reports from "Fact Checkers" for the air of the authority they convey to support their policy preferences and smear opponents as liars. Moreover, these social media companies are shaping our culture, which in turn shapes who gets elected and what laws we are forced to follow. And that cultural shift is to public reliance on what "Fact Checkers" as the truth in any controversy instead of a system built over centuries which recognizes that "facts" are not always so clear cut and often require interpretation. That does not bode well for a free society.

            1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

              So, what is your answer? To have government interfere in Facebook’s First Amendment right to post whatever content they wish to on their own site?

              1. Truthfulness   3 years ago

                They already did that, Mike. Government asked Facebook to censor so-called "misinformation". There's even links above.

                What part of that do you not understand?

                1. R Mac   3 years ago

                  She doesn’t want to understand because she likes the results.

                2. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

                  They forced them? Oh, no, they asked them.

            2. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

              What does Facebook have to do with “courts, trials, juries, judges, or rules of evidence”? They are a social media site.

              1. See Double You   3 years ago

                Mike, the problem is the whole concept of a "Fact Checker". By its very name, a "Fact Checker" presents itself as the final authority on the truth of any fact. Moreover, when these "Fact Checkers" flag a post or video as "False", "Misleading", or even "True", they are really just offering their interpretation of a claim, the evidence presented by the claimant, and the Fact Checker's own evidence. Their interpretation includes what weight to give the evidence or what its significance is to the present controversy. In short, they are offering an opinion, but they are masking their opinion as "fact".

                And it's clear they want to have it both ways, presenting themselves to the public as the arbiter of truth while making a "mere opinion" defense in defamation suits such as Stossel's.

                1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

                  Yes, agreed Facebook sucks for wanting to be seen as arbiter of fact and then screwing up the fact checking.

                  But to keep things in perspective, it’s just a social media site. They are not the court system.

                  You don’t even have to use Facebook. Many people don’t.

    2. daveca   3 years ago

      bc Facebook is out to use YOU!

  29. daveca   3 years ago

    Go to bed with dogs, get up with fleas.

    F Facebook
    F Biden
    F Fauci

    Its not "fact checking," its " compliance with pro Leftist Government idealogy checking."

  30. Chumby   3 years ago

    For those with soave follicles, consider Hairbook.

    1. daveca   3 years ago

      Rico y Suave!!

  31. DRM   3 years ago

    Getting rid of Section 230 wouldn't solve the problem of overly aggressive fact-checking and content moderation, though. On the contrary, it could very well exacerbate it. The more liability Facebook is subjected to, the less permissive it is likely to be.

    Mr. Soave, stop spreading ignorant nonsense.

    If Section 230 were simply deleted, we would revert to what the state of the law was before Section 230. Which means the precedents are Cubby v. CompuServe (1991) and Stratton Oakmont, Inc. v. Prodigy Services Co. (1995).

    And they were crystal clear. Because Prodigy exercised control over user content, Prodigy was liable. Because CompuServe did not, CompuServe was not.

    Which means that, if Section 230 were repealed, liability would only attach to Facebook if Facebook tried to control what user content appeared on their service. If Facebook sat back and permitted everything, its liability would be zero. It is certainly possible that Facebook might choose a regime of liability and tight censorship, but it is similarly possible that it would choose a regime of non-censorship and no liability.

    But perhaps more importantly, liability would attach to "infrastructure" services like AWS or CloudFlare if they controlled what content they served, but not if they avoided it. There is no way in hell those companies would choose liability over every single page they ever serve. So even if the current end-user services like Facebook and Twitter all chose the censorship-and-liability model, no-censorship-no-liability competitors would be practical . . . and they'd have lower costs than the current incumbents, too.

    Now, of course, there are libertarian ideological arguments to be made over whether it violates freedom of contract to give AWS into the choice of either providing service to Parler or assuming liability for everything it ever serves.

    But the obvious practical effect of a straight repeal of Section 230 would be to encourage companies to refuse to exercise control over user content, since it would both be inherently cheaper not to review user content and it would be the only way to completely avoid any liability for user content.

    1. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

      “if Facebook tried to control what user content appeared on their service”

      Which they want to do, of course, because they want to appeal to eyeballs and advertisers. A site with uncontrolled user content is YouTube comments a few years ago, or the Reason commentariat these days. Neither appealing.

      1. JesseAz   3 years ago

        Agreed. Your posts are very similar in ignorance and worth to youtube comments.

      2. DRM   3 years ago

        Sure. What Facebook wants is simultaneously to 1) have complete control of everything appearing on their site so they can maximize revenue, 2) a system of content review that costs nothing to operate, 3) no legal liability for what's on their site, and 4) no social blame for what they include or exclude because they can point to the law.

        A clean repeal of Section 230 would give them the choice of #1 and none of #2-4, or all of #2-4 but none of #1. And the second choice is the one that actually scales with volume, so either Facebook would choose it, or Facebook would be fairly rapidly eclipsed by a competitor that did.

      3. DesigNate   3 years ago

        If you bothered to actually read and were willing to listen and learn, you wouldn’t have such a dire view of the comments here.

        I almost always learn something new, even from SQRLSY or Jeff every once in a blue moon.

  32. daveca   3 years ago

    : )

    Thus 230 is Federalist control by Perhaps the Secret court system...

    Whomever having a vested interest in keeping the Govt message spewing forth.

  33. Archibald Tuttle   3 years ago

    Get real. With hundreds of thousands of posts per second, there is no time to read articles or view videos. Judgement is made on the title alone.

    To avoid this problem in the future, just be a little deceptive in the title.

  34. Marshal   3 years ago

    Intriguingly, Zweig's article did not receive the same "false information" label.

    This shows the source of any information determines which standard applies. We all know leftists apply different standards for their allies (The Atlantic, reliably prog) as opposed to their opponents (Reason, somewhat libertarian). This is the problem with allowing leftists to judge anything.

  35. Cyto   3 years ago

    Interesting coincidence

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/12/ready-just-twitter-permanently-suspends-mrna-inventor-dr-robert-malone-tweeting-evidence-showing-vaccines-cause-illness-prevent-just-one-day-set-app/?

    So, the misinformation police have silenced the guy who probably knows more than anyone about mRNA vaccines. Because some 23 year old intern at fact-check.org or somesuch definitely knows more than the guy who invented it....

  36. XM   3 years ago

    If social media company makes money on content I upload on their site (ad revenue, or whatever) then I as a consumer should have SOME recourse if they remove it without as cause or mischaracterize it as false news. And if they censor ME spreading "false" news but allow others to do so, I have reasons to believe that I'm being discriminated against.

    This is different from me trying to sue the company for something another user had said on their platform. This is about the company itself engaging in willfully dishonest conduct in trying to censor or selectively apply their TOS. FB and Twitter are not some private birthday party where the host has total dominion, they are a private business and the users are customers.

    Imagine a scenario in which yelp users post reviews and photos of a restaurant crawling with roaches and yelp takes them all down because.... "well they're a private business" It's nonsensical. It makes no sense for Youtube to take down channels that ate up years of the creator's time and money because they just sort of felt like it. It does not matter that they're free and that I wasn't forced to use their service - once I register to use their service, certain consumer protections should be put in place.

    We don't have to scrap section 230, we just have to tweak it. And it doesn't prevent us from suing the company itself anyways. Otherwise, you're allowing suppression of free speech to prevent theoretical future suppression of free speech. Remember, social media either blocked or dismissed the Hunter Biden laptop and the lab leak theory.

    1. Rob Misek   3 years ago

      These social media platforms have established themselves as places for people to communicate, speak.

      They have replaced and become town squares where the inalienable right to free speech applies.

    2. DRM   3 years ago

      Simply scrapping Section 230 doesn't touch "free speech" in any way, shape, or form.

      It just reverts the state of the law to what it was in 1995, and accordingly gives a computer information service a simple choice as to whether it wants to be under the legal regime of a publisher (allowed to decide what it publishes, and thus legally liable for what it publishes) or of a common carrier (providing communications service on a nondiscriminatory basis to all comers, and thus not liable for what the customers use its services to transmit, but liable to a customer lawsuit if it censors legal speech).

  37. cjcoats   3 years ago

    If Facebook paid the fact-checkers, then they are contractors and Facebook is responsible (including libel) for how it uses their checking.

  38. Rob Misek   3 years ago

    You’ve been living in a dream world Neo.” The Matrix

    The compelling nature of that movie is how it reflects current global reality.

    Instead of having a computer generated parallel reality we all have been lied to through propaganda for generations.

    With the aid of mainstream media and now social media giants those who benefit from controlling our behaviour apply brainwashing propaganda with only as much real force as is required such that we don’t revolt and bring down the illusion.

    Our choices are limited, not by reality, but by ourselves being manipulated by propaganda and force as required.

    Those of us who recognize reality are either part of the conspiracy or steadfastly opposed to it.

    The rest of us, I’m probably talking about you are like the movie said simply aware that something isn’t right and have developed coping reactions like bigotry or carelessness. Anything that fits into the brainwashed worldview that you already recognize reality and are acting in accordance with it. Anything but the unthinkable.

    Such is life. The velvet chains of delusion are indeed comfortable and truth will definitely reveal gritty unpleasantries about ourselves and others that you will feel coerced not to expose.

    Neo had a similar choice. Take the blue pill and believe whatever you want to, or take the red pill and recognize and accept the truth, reality.

    Knowing my background here, you’re probably terrified by the prospect that I’m absolutely right. I don’t blame you, that’s how brainwashing is supposed to work. Manipulating your emotions and principles with carefully engineered misinformation.

    I in fact am doing a similar thing only without the misinformation. I am offering the truth which is demonstrated by the fact it can’t be refuted. I know that acting in accordance with truth/reality is the driver of evolution for all living things and that your survival depends on it.

    I’m betting that many of you will recognize this and try to refute what doesn’t fit into your worldview. I know you won’t be able to refute truth. I’m betting that you will have to consciously choose blue or red. Not left vs right but bigotry and carelessness vs truth and righteousness. Evolution vs extinction.

    The only choice you really don’t have is not to choose.

  39. jack murphy   3 years ago

    facebook? who gives a shit

  40. DarrenM   3 years ago

    If you've ever written anything Democrats don't like, you will be subject to "fact checking" (aka censorship). This may apply only to you or to Reason in general. The article must be labeled as "misinformation" unless someone can prove otherwise. It's not the content they are "checking", it's the source.

    1. Cyto   3 years ago

      Kinda jibes with what Dave Chappell had to say to open his last special...

  41. Liberty Lover   3 years ago

    Reason has consistently supported Facebook. Don't whine now that it has affected you.

  42. mad.casual   3 years ago

    While this is a problem, it's not one that scrapping Section 230 would solve.

    "Repealing the government's protection of 'Good Samaritan' blocking and screening of offensive material wouldn't solve this problem, so let's continue to leave it up to Congress to decide what constitutes a Good Samaritan and what constitutes offensive material."

  43. awildseaking   3 years ago

    Robby, your take on this is a bit boomer, so we'll say what you didn't.

    There is no such thing as a fact checker. These people are commissars, narrative monitors who determine public discourse.

    "That's it. Neither Zweig's article nor mine makes the claim that masks don't work on kids, or that masks fail to limit transmission in schools. Both addressed a single study that concerned mask mandates."

    You might think that you're clever, but to the commissar, this was just wordplay. The elites want you to submit to their judgment and this means that masks work 100% of the time. The vaccines are 100% safe and effective. You cannot get COVID, you cannot spread it, there are no adverse effects and you will live if you just comply. That's their narrative.

    From their point of view, if you're saying that masks don't work when forced upon us, that means they don't work at all. If it works for you as an individual, then it works for everyone as a collective. Look across the pond at Australia. The slavers in government there have started calling anyone opposed to mandates anti-vax because any perceived weakness deflates the narrative.

    "Fact checking" is a cover and you shouldn't cede the terms of the debate to your opponents. These people are intrinsically evil. Never forget that.

  44. jbsay   3 years ago

    I am sorry Robby, but your defensive posture severely misrepresents the seriousness of the problem.

    It is NOT that FB or anyone else is censoring you for statements that you did not make - the way in which they are doing so IS defamation, and as Stossel is doing - they SHOULD be sued.

    The fundimental problem in BOTH your case, AND Stossel's is that
    the "Factchekers' and indeed "experts" are NOT engaged in SCIENCE.

    Real Science DOES NOT say that forest fires are caused by global warming, NOR does it say that masks in schools prevent the spread of diseases.

    Those may or may not be true - in all likelyhood BOTH are false.
    But most importantly NEITHER are science.

    Science is what can be PROVEN. Not "beyond a reasonable doubt" - but beyond ANY DOUBT.

    It would be CORRECT to day "some experts claim masks work" or "Some experts claim climate change causes forest fires".
    It might be CORRECT to say that "Most experts claim".

    It is NOT CORRECT to say that something is "science"until it is PROVEN.

    Science is NOT a massive appeal to authority.

    We do not accept "E=mc^2" because experts said it, because einstein said it, because there is a consensus.

    But because it is testably true.

    Should that ever fail to be true - it would no longer be "Science"

    FB and other Social media are NOT engaged in actual "Fact Checking" - and in Stossel's lawsuit - they have admitted that "fact checks" are just "opinions" and are claiming legal protection because they are opinions.
    If FB and social media wish to employ "opinion checkers" and suppress content on that basis - they are free to do so.
    But Science is the domain of provable FACTS.

    1. See Double You   3 years ago

      ^^^Exactly this.

  45. MoreFreedom   3 years ago

    Making up fake stories is a favorite tactic of a lot of left wing outlets and political operatives (the right also has its share). That and attacking their victims.

  46. Pyrus   3 years ago

    Here's the thing, section 230 should be scrapped because it explicitly violates the constitution! The relevant part:
    (A) any action voluntarily taken in good faith to restrict access to or availability of material that the provider or user considers to be obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable, *whether or not such material is constitutionally protected*....

    (Emphasis mine)

  47. Ezra MacVie   3 years ago

    Facebook wouldn't know a fact if it bit them in the ass.

  48. Tony   3 years ago

    This is like something I published in my college newspaper. Fight the system, man.

    That system being a private corporation that can do the fuck it wants, of course, and this being a libertarian magazine.

    Christ amighty.

  49. Jiyuu   3 years ago

    "Pages and websites that repeatedly publish or share false news will see their overall distribution reduced and be restricted in other ways." is clearly libel against the publisher: Reason.com. 230 doesn't give free reign to commit libel, and blaming a third party that you pay is a losing argument.
    Sometimes when I'm bored I'll look for the false statement notifications on clearly liberal pages, the other 98% for example. I've yet to see such a warning. While I don't find blatant lies, they usually have misleading implications, far more misleading than taken down conservative counterparts

  50. atisang   3 years ago

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  59. JesseAz   3 years ago

    It is the infection of living in deep blue areas. People around you rationalizing the loss of freedoms and open discussions as they become more authoritarian. As long as Robbie isn't the most authoritarian on his group, he can claim he is pro liberty.

    The best thing Reason could do is get their writers outside of deep blue urban areas.

  60. mpercy   3 years ago

    https://americanmind.org/salvo/thats-not-happening-and-its-good-that-it-is/

    Which brings us to the Law of Salutary Contradiction, whose formulation is: “That’s not happening and it’s good that it is.” While the Law of Merited Impossibility applies to the future, this one is about the present. It’s what the ruling class immediately switches to after what they insisted would “never” happen is happening before everyone’s eyes.

    Is the NSA spying on Tucker Carlson? That’s an insane conspiracy theory … which is also warranted by Tucker’s treasonous contacts with Russian officials as he seeks an interview with Putin.

    Is the Biden Administration inviting in illegal immigrants, then putting them on military planes and shipping them to the heartland? Absolutely not … and these future Nobel Prize winners deserve their shot at the American Dream.

    The coinage is Rod Dreher’s and goes back to the early debates on homosexual marriage. As Dreher formulates it, the Law of Merited Impossibility holds: “That will never happen, and when it does, boy will you [homophobes, transphobes, racists, sexists, whatever] deserve it.”

    Its second purpose is to dismiss out of hand “slippery slope” arguments—despite, or because of, the fact that every single such argument over the last twenty years at least has proved true. Worried that allowing people to “self-identify” as whatever sex they want will lead to pervy 50-year-old men exposing themselves to’ tween girls? Insist, loudly and indignantly, that that will NEVER happen and anyone who suggests it might is an alarmist bigot with a heart full of hate.

    The third purpose is to enforce the new caste system. Those who get to impose fresh irrational indignities on the rest of us are the upper caste. Those who object, or even have reservations, are lower. The latter are not allowed to harbor, much less express, any doubts. Whatever humiliation the upper caste has planned for us, we deserve and must meekly accept. Hence when said pervy 50-year-old actually does start waving around “her” equipment in the girls’ locker room, if any parent dares object, let ’em have it with both barrels. That thing that ten seconds ago you said would “never” happen? Now it’s righteous punishment for the retrograde.

  61. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

    Remember ENB's reaction to "sex workers" sites getting banned.

  62. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    Dude, Alex Jones is not a journalist.

  63. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Agreed. Volokh went though actual 1a law and showed that when government is the producer of censorship through requests, 1a protections can extend to companies or entities that receive federal funding or are regulated. Reason outside of Volokh has completely ignore that.

    But there is also a consolidation of infrastructure and providers that has led to the just build your own internet claims. Yet when people actually do, such as trumps company or Rumble, politicians and media attack the advertisers and infrastructure backbone to kill those companies as well.

    Left politicians are the impetus for these actions. It is soft fascism.

  64. daveca   3 years ago

    FACE book?

    Its bleedin obvious esp when the site searches photos to extract the faces.

    Its a collection point for facial recognition data.

  65. JesseAz   3 years ago

    If that is your defense to censorship youre a bigger idiot than I imagined. Of course youre probably too fucking stupid to have read the Fauci emails to seek to kill the immunological from the Barrington memo from participating in covid discussions. But houre a leftist fuck who justifies his acceptance of authoritarianism by throwing out non sequitur like "it is just Alex Jones!!!".

    GG. Can you repost the above for him so the dumbfuck reads it?

  66. Nardz   3 years ago

    Sarcasmic is really obsessed with Alex Jones.
    Something Freudian going on there

  67. JoeB   3 years ago

    First they came for Alex Jones, and I did not care because he was noisy. Then they came for Alex Berenson, but I did not care because he used too many graphs...

  68. Granite   3 years ago

    Sarcastic, it’s well known the cia is in charge of domestic propaganda and has been for decades.

  69. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    Your idea is that social media is run by the government.

    Do you have any proof to back up this idea?

  70. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    Psaki said part of the Biden administration's new campaign involves asking social media companies to be more active in combatting misinformation and to share the results of their efforts publicly.

    The key word here is "asking." Not "demanding" or "ordering" or "commanding."

    Asking is not forcing. So the blame is on social media for not standing up to the White House.

  71. JesseAz   3 years ago

    He is an ignorant leftist shit at this point. Sealioning just like Mike.

    This has been well discussed here. He knows it is true.

  72. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    Aaaand, that was the White House. Not the CIA/FBI. Nobody got thrown in jail for "misinformation" and no companies were shut down by the government.

    Again, Alex Jones is not a journalist.

  73. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Mike like rationalization detected.

  74. Commenter_XY   3 years ago

    sarcasmic....c'mon dude. You think maybe the senate and house committees that have hauled the CEO's of these social media companies in front of them for hearings multiple times in 2021 have no coordination whatsoever with the Biden White House?

    If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. Prime NYC location.

  75. CE   3 years ago

    Asking is not forcing, sure.
    But we have this shiny multi-billion-dollar government IT contract here, see what I'm saying? Your company is in the running, so far.
    And see that scary looking anti-trust action over there, but neither of us wants to deal with that, now do we?

  76. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

    Asking? Like the Mafia asking for insurance premiums?

  77. R Mac   3 years ago

    I see why you usually troll without taking any actual positions. Because when you do, it makes you look exceptionally stupid.

  78. Marshal   3 years ago

    So the blame is on social media for not standing up to the White House.

    All government pressure comes with the implied threat of regulation, but this is even more explicit in this context where government and left wingers have been explicitly threatening this for many years.

    It's amusing people who pose as libertarians defend the government in this conflict and place the blame exclusively on others. Nothing could so clearly demonstrate sarcasmic's fake libertarianism as well as this.

  79. JesseAz   3 years ago

    He just rationalized it above as a kind ask. Of course no power behind the ask with contracts or regulation.

  80. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    Enjoy your fevered conspiracy nightmares. I hope they keep you up at night.

  81. JesseAz   3 years ago

    You think the only people being silenced are Alex jones.

    Youre one of the most ignorant people here rationalizing the destruction of discourse with leftist talking points.

  82. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Again. Fauci utilized government resources to shut down countering scientists from the Barrington memo you ignorant fuck. Twitter has deplatformed hundreds if not thousands of people for saying scientifically accurate things that went against the administration at the behest of the WH.

    Youre an idiot.

  83. New Aged Debt   3 years ago

    None of these companies want the government's nose in their business. If government "suggests" something companies will do it.

    As for no one been thrown into jail for misinformation.. Google 2016 election meme arrest. If that doesn't fit the bill for you then how about project Veritas being raided?

  84. CE   3 years ago

    So it's better if the President pressures companies directly and publicly to fall in line?

  85. The Great Negro   3 years ago

    And Biden isn’t the president.

  86. Terry Anne Lieber (Don't Feed Tony)   3 years ago

    Yes, and that's why you shouldn't feed him (or his other socks).

  87. Cyto   3 years ago

    Also, Alex Jones is indeed a journalist.

    He may also be a kook, but that is beside the point.

    He is no more of a kook than Anita Sarkeesian and Amanda Marcotte, yet they get to be on panels deciding what you can see, and Jones must be banned.

    Pretending that this is anything other than simple political censorship is silly. Hell, the left barely pretends.

  88. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Personally I dont give the word journalist any credence. I am in full agreement with Prof Volokh in the term "the press" in 1a referring to the printing press or technology to increase ones voice. Every human being that talks or discusses something with others is a journalist.

  89. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

    I highly doubt you guys would be complaining if Trump had won the election and gone after Facebook and Twitter for being mean to him during the election.
    You dumb fuck. Trump wasn't even allowed to ban troll posters, by a fucking federal judge.

  90. DesigNate   3 years ago

    I thought it was pretty clear that every American is a member of “the press”. Then again, I thought “Congress shall make no law”, and “shall not be infringed” were pretty clear too.

  91. Cyto   3 years ago

    It didn't work so well for Radley Balko. He moved to Nashville and took a hard left turn.

  92. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Nashville is actually quite left in the arts and editorial community. Many country artists that aren't mainstream avoid it. See how they tried to take down Morgan Wallen. It is ran by a left leaning music industry.

  93. HorseConch   3 years ago

    Except for the fake one. It's a tad funnier than the real one, and it's great to see him go off with rage because someone is doing a better job pretending to be unfunny and drunk.

  94. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    When Tulpa shows up I walk away. He engages multiple sarcasmics and argues with himself pretending to be an outraged me.

  95. R Mac   3 years ago

    Poor sarc, he’s here for everyone to laugh at.

  96. Ben of Houston   3 years ago

    Except you know very well that we do not have functional defamation law in this country. If you have political favor, you might be able to shut down true slander. However, people outside of political favor have experience outright insanity to throw out their lawsuits, with judges twisting dictionaries and laws on their heads to create counterfactual judgements.

  97. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    So PLEASE tell us, Oh All-Knowing Goldilicks Gorillashit, if Government Almighty ASKS (and does not COMPEL) me to act in a certain way, with my speech policies... As and individual, or as a group, concerning my speech... Then HOW is that "Congress making a law"?

    Are you trying to compel Government Almighty in matters concerning what they may and may not ASK for? Is this not censorshit, hypocrite?

  98. JesseAz   3 years ago

    This is the same deflection he took last time he posited he was a classical liberal. Lol.

    He started rambling about shared harm to justify bidens actions in markets and the like. It was hilarious.

  99. JesseAz   3 years ago

    He can even find the rulings agreeing with you on this very site under Professor Volokhs articles. But sarcasmic is a fucking idiot.

  100. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    So PLEASE tell us, Oh All-Knowing Goldilicks Gorillashit, if Government Almighty ASKS (and does not COMPEL) me to act in a certain way, with my speech policies... As and individual, or as a group, concerning my speech... Then HOW is that "Congress making a law"?

    So, Goldilicks Gorillashit, I ask again, are you trying to compel Government Almighty in matters concerning what they may and may not ASK for? Is this not censorshit, hypocrite?

  101. JesseAz   3 years ago

    It was a good intentioned attempt at censorship -Mike

  102. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

    A private company acting at the behest of the government to censor speech violates the First Amendment. That is clear cut law.

    You forgot to switch socks again, dumbass. NOW you are posting as MEEE!!! HOW MANY people live in your so-called head anyway!??!

    Goldilicks Gorillashit is DRUNK OFF OF ITS ASS already, this early in the day!!! Can't even track what or who it is!

  103. JesseAz   3 years ago

    You are free to go to Volokhs site here and read his articles you uneducated leftist shit.

  104. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

    JesseBahnFuhrer is too damned lazy to post a link! Figures!

    Questions for JesseBahnFuhrer:

    If a judge (jury etc.) somehow manages to let a mass-murderer get off "Scott free", does that make it right? Is THIS now the "new legal precedent"... That all mass-murderers SHOULD now get off "Scott free" in the future?

    Hardcopy rags (NYT maybe?) have gotten punished in the past, for the contents of letters to the editor THAT THEY DID NOT WRITE!!! You, with your ginormous "punishment boner" or "punishment clit", ass the case may be... Ass ass YOU may be... You want to PUNISH the NYT, to make it "fair"? Why not a "Section 230 for Hardcopy Rags" instead?

    In 1850, I imagine that perhaps some people in the USA were saying it isn’t fair that white folks hold black folks as slaves. Let’s “fix” it by having a bunch of black folks hold white slaves, too!
    What kind of EVIL person fixes injustice by widening the spread of more injustice of the same kind? HOW does this “fix” ANYTHING?!?!

  105. Truthfulness   3 years ago

    @SQRLSY One

    Read JesseAz's reply above.

  106. R Mac   3 years ago

    Haha sarc got caught. AGAIN.

  107. Joe Brandon   3 years ago

    HOLY SHIT! You outed yourself again, bahahahaha!

  108. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Sarc thinks fascism can be libertarian. It is scary.

  109. HorseConch   3 years ago

    He never says anything dumb, and Mikey Boy never gaslights for the Dems. Don't make fun of Mikey's bff. They love beating each other off about how great of point one another is making.

  110. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Shrike does the same with his socks. They think everyone is as stupid as they are.

  111. JesseAz   3 years ago

    And I dont think he is a paid troll just a troll. He is a dumb and angry person who thought finding a page with bastiat quotes made him intelligent and thought he was accepted for his intellectual for posting those quotes without understanding. And then when he expanded to try to argue actual policy and such, he quickly broke down and was exposed as an idiot hypocrite. Note how he argues generalities, strawman, or pure garbage trolling. Never specifics. He thinks the sanctity of the golden mean will hide his intellectual deficiency, so never provides specifics, counter points, or explicit rebuttals. Note his cries of Alex Jones above.

    And also he is a victim. Pure victim mentality. He has never caused any of his life's failures. Not one. Always someone else did.

  112. daveca   3 years ago

    some people are that stupid for free!

  113. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

    JesseBahnFuhrer ***IS*** the drunk who lusts after taking over the podium at Church!!! AND it wants Government Almighty to pass some LAWS protecting the rights of Der Great JesseBahnFuhrer!!!

    All Hail the far-rightist rights of Der Great JesseBahnFuhrer!!!

  114. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Poor sarc. You made him jump to his sqrsly sock so he has to act more manic than usual because he fucked up again.

  115. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

    I noticed that you hyper-partisans can NOT refute what I wrote! I suppose that next, you will argue that the “fix” for a cop strangling to death, a black man (Eric Garner) on suspicion of wanting to sell “loosies” is, not to STOP the injustice, but rather, to go and find some White and Hispanic and Asian men as well, and strangle them, as well, on suspicion of wanting to sell “loosies”! THAT will make it all “fair”!

    You Servants of the Evil One ever glance in the mirror, and notice that... You are EVIL?

  116. Truthfulness   3 years ago

    @SQRLSY One

    Has the preacher acted on behalf of the government? No. Facebook did, however.

    You seem incapable of understanding that.

  117. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

    WHEN did the USA Government Almighty actually PUNISH Facepoooo for NOT doing the biding of the USA Government Almighty?

    Citation please!!!

  118. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    "Fake news by itself is not illegal. The FBI cannot initiate an investigation based solely on speech protected by the first amendment. If a foreign adversary or if someone tied in with a foreign intelligence service is the one creating and pushing that information, that is something that we would take action on," said Harrington.

  119. R Mac   3 years ago

    Now do parents at school board meetings.

    Admit it sarc, you’re ok with the federal government going after your enemies.

  120. HorseConch   3 years ago

    Unfortunately, who would be left for Jeff and Tony to suckle?

  121. Dakotian   3 years ago

    Yep. I have been lurking here for a while. Back before the Bad Orange Man Sarc seemed more reasonable. But thinking back there was not a lot of deep thinking even back then.

  122. JesseAz   3 years ago

    It allows the other countries to ignore abuses by claiming they have a valid Judicial system.

  123. mpercy   3 years ago

    Undercutting the fact that the "fact-checks" were imposed on opinions in the first place. Highlighting the fact that Facebook, et al., are just favoring one set of opinions and chilling speech/opinions they disfavor.

  124. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    What came of those hearings? All I saw was a bunch of Senators making asses out of themselves for being completely ignorant of technology.

  125. JesseAz   3 years ago

    So sarc ignored his whole post. Amazing to watch idiocy in real time.

  126. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    You're still admitting that there was no force.

  127. Sevo   3 years ago

    "People that hold guns to your head in exchange for your compliance are also, technically, just "asking.""

    Tony, for one, claims income tax is 'voluntary'.

  128. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Remember. Sarc also thinks forced quarantine camps in Australia, even for people who test negative, really isn't a big issue. Yes I have the links.

  129. Dillinger   3 years ago

    mostly peaceful.

  130. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    I suppose it depends on the president. I highly doubt you guys would be complaining if Trump had won the election and gone after Facebook and Twitter for being mean to him during the election. In fact I bet you'd be cheering him on.

  131. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    There you go with the middle school insults. That means you admit to losing the argument.

  132. JesseAz   3 years ago

    So much of sarcs ideas involved imagined strawman to justify the defense of his authoritarian beliefs.

  133. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    This is completely meaningless. A private company is a private company. Everyone understands what the government is. You already admitted you are not a lawyer and I do not have the time to disentangle your cherry-picked citations. Insult me all you want, the argument is over, and I won.

  134. JesseAz   3 years ago

    What cherrypicked citations? The same cases professor volokh has highlighted?

    Just admit you're retarded and don't care to educate yourself sarc.

  135. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    Hey GG, sarcasmic December.29.2021 at 2:07 pm was Tulpa.

    What he does is wait until I'm done with a thread, then he shits it all up. Mute that comment. It's a different account.

  136. R Mac   3 years ago

    Poor sarc.

  137. Marshal   3 years ago

    I highly doubt you guys would be complaining if Trump had won the election and gone after Facebook and Twitter for being mean to him during the election.

    So in the worst case in your feverish dreams...they are the same as you.

  138. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    When people work at the behest of government, even voluntarily, it is government action.

    I can't accept that premise. Sorry. I attribute action to the one doing the action.

  139. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    So you're a lawyer?

  140. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    I'll take that as a no.

  141. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    You're calling me names like a child, which means I win and I walk away.

  142. JesseAz   3 years ago

    You won with a non argument. Volokh has cited cases. We see private universities get denied and ruled against in lawsuits due to their acceptance of government funding. The companies you defend colluding with government and under pressure from said government also do so.

    You defend censorship. Youre not a libertarian.

  143. JesseAz   3 years ago

    Anyone else amazed that sarcasmic openly admits he can't educate himself to accept a premise that has citations provided lol?

  144. sarcasmic   3 years ago

    He pipes up, gets taken to school, and disappears --- only to wash the slate clean, respawn, and repeat the process.

    If you don't want me to walk away from a conversation, don't start calling me names like you're a middle school girl.

  145. R Mac   3 years ago

    Don’t want to be called an asshole and a turd, don’t act like an asshole and a turd. Asshole.

  146. Fats of Fury   3 years ago

    The hats of all the sarcasmics are off to you.

  147. Nobartium   3 years ago

    It's completely retarded to say that social media can't moderate everything. Their entire fucking business model revolves around SEO and targeted ads. They purposefully log EVERYTHING.

  148. SQRLSY One   3 years ago

    Nardz? Is this YOU?!?! They letting you post from jail?

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/sixth-person-dies-after-deadly-denver-killing-spree-police-say

    ‘The Weak Better Buckle Up’: Denver Gunman Left Online Trail of Hate

  149. Sevo   3 years ago

    TDS-addled spastic asshole gets flagged.

  150. mpercy   3 years ago

    Don't know about that, but the user number matches the one I have previously noted for sarc, and not the "new" sarc (Tulpa?)

  151. Mike Laursen   3 years ago

    Logging is not moderating.

    Resorting to the personal insult calling my argument “retarded” is not a counter-argument.

  152. ElvisIsReal   3 years ago

    https://simulationcommander.substack.com/p/newly-released-fauci-e-mails-show

  153. The Great Negro   3 years ago

    It is a factual statement though.

  154. R Mac   3 years ago

    Really surprising the shit eater, whose definitely not sarc’s sock, jumped in out of nowhere to defend him.

  155. DesigNate   3 years ago

    So if the government tells you to go interrogate some people or they’ll ruin your life, you’re not acting as a government proxy?

  156. Chumby   3 years ago

    Sarc gives him a squirrel necklace.

  157. Marshal   3 years ago

    All of which is completely irrelevant in the defamation analysis.

    It's revealing they search so hard for defenses they grasp at irrelevancies. An honest arbiter would understand this themselves. But leftists are only searching for a defense, not for the truth.

    This is the core difference between a liberal, of which there are few, and a leftist, of which there are many.

  158. Chumby   3 years ago

    Why muting him is the best course of action.

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