To Fight Climate Change, Los Angeles Bans Restaurants From Giving Out Unsolicited Ketchup Packets
Businesses that give customers condiments without them first asking for them could receive fines totaling $300.

Some Los Angeles politicians seem to relish micromanaging the behavior of businesses and consumers.
Beginning this week, a new city law goes into effect forbidding restaurants with 26 or more employees from handing out ketchup and mustard packets without the customer first requesting them. Come April 2022, it will apply to all restaurants.
The intent of the new ordinance—which also restricts the distribution of other single-use items like napkins and utensils—is to prevent waste and combat climate change, according to its authors.
"If we are to overcome the extreme climate challenges we face, we will have to alter or otherwise transform all our habits relating to fossil fuel products, including plastics, and our essential natural resources, like forests," said Councilmember Paul Koretz, co-author of the ordinance, in a Tuesday press release. "These goods are also sustaining the fading fossil fuel industry, which is a major contributor to climate change," added Councilmember Paul Krekorian, another co-author.
Businesses will be given warnings for first and second violations of the ordinance, and a $25 fine for each day the business is out of compliance after that. Fines for individual businesses are capped at $300 per year.
The new policy also applies to food delivery services like DoorDash and UberEats. From now on, people will have to order condiments and utensils as separate menu items instead of the old practice of expecting them to be provided in the bag.
Los Angeles' ordinance passed back in June. It mirrors a state bill signed into law by Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, in October that requires localities to start enforcing a condiment- and utensil-on-request policy by June 2022 at the latest.
The written comments submitted to the Los Angeles City Council in regards to its ordinance, from both the public and businesses, are near-uniformly positive.
Delivery platform Grubhub said it would benefit its partner restaurants who no longer have to waste money by giving customers a product they don't want (perhaps under the mistaken belief that they were required to do that before).
Others said the ordinance would relieve the psychic distress they feel at the accumulating pile of plastic utensils in their kitchen.
"We all have an entire drawer full of plastic utensils from the takeout places we've ordered from. All of that plastic plagues our mind with guilt until we throw it all away and start the cycle again," said one commenter, who urged the city council to "make the right choice for businesses, consumers, our city, and our environment."
That amount of concern feels misplaced. Certainly, those who are deeply concerned about climate change have plenty of other things to worry about in the greater Los Angeles area. That includes the roughly 5,000 active oil wells in Los Angeles County and the reported 222 million miles county residents drive each day.
It's also an open question of how much this new law will actually reduce people's consumption. It's likely that businesses would be less generous with their ketchup packets even without the law, given reported shortages of that product. The penalties are also minor enough that many businesses could easily afford to not comply
True, there are few victims of this new law, save for those people who forget to ask for dipping sauce and thus must munch on dry, uncovered fries. Yet the pettiness of the law makes it all the more offensive.
Los Angeles has no shortage of problems that policy makers they could be addressing, from housing affordability to homelessness. Instead, they've decided to spend their time mandating a new, pointless ritual that will inconvenience a few and benefit no one.
Rent Free is a weekly newsletter from Christian Britschgi on urbanism and the fight for less regulation, more housing, more property rights, and more freedom in America's cities.
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Most businesses do this anyway. Sauces aren't free.
By "aren't free" I mean they cost the business at least a nickel each. That adds up when it's tossed willy nilly into bags by the handful.
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The most irksome regulations are the ones where you would have done the “right”
thing, anyway, even in the absence of the regulation.
The only possible way to determine what is "right" is for the government to tell us. We can't possibly be expected to know that all by ourselves.
An unexercised muscle atrophies. People who are never given a chance to choose between right or wrong behavior, always told what to do, lose the ability to make ethical decisions.
Ahhhh so that is the problem with all of these Los Angelinos. Their chooser muscles have atrophied to the point of near non existence. This is all making more sense now.
Some dam fool here, a month or three ago, said he sort of agreed with limited government, but then listed several fields which only government could do:
* roads
* dams
* post office
* air traffic control
* radio frequency allocation
* automobile safety standards
I may have the list wrong in detail, but it was laughable, and he immediately got responses showing how every single item on his list was wrong, wrong, wrong; that all had been pioneered by markets and taken over by government at the behest of cronies who wanted to control said markets. The last three are especially surprising to most people, but were in fact developed by free markets and taken over by governments.
I dunno.
Those are all about economic choice, not ethical choice. But I'd be thrilled if we had government that limited itself to those functions, that are now widely accepted as things a minimal government does.
You miss the point. These fields, all of which were begun by private individuals and organizations in free markets and were then co-opted by the government, were the best examples this clown had of fields which were ONLY capable of being run by governments.
IOW, his idea of the absolute last refuge if one were to shrink government, were in fact classic examples all begun privately and co-opted by government.
Where do you think internet control is going to end up?
Most actually don't.
Sure, where I live if you want more than two packets of ketchup you have to shoot the clerk and pry the rest from his cold, dead, hands but they'll shovel a massive handful of ranch packets in evening you ask them not to.
I suppose it depends on where you live. Round here they're stingy.
Here it depends on the company. McDonald's stopped giving unsolicited ketchup a while back, but Culver's gives 1 pack per order of fries. Taco Bell asks if you want sauce, then gives you a handful of each kind even if you say no
I think that's a symptom of Taco Bell employees really not giving a shit.
There's an "Irish Try" channel on you tube where various Irish people taste things from around the world. A few of them came to Florida and tried Taco Bell, complaining that the food was good but dry. They didn't realize you had to either ask for the sauce or get it from the condiments area.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5beERFdeY8
Perhaps. But this is pretty obviously a move by Big Salsa to undermine the itty bitty ketchup competition.
These fascists relish the idea that the rest of the nation will ketchup. Perhaps they may even pepper in some more bans.
That’s a salty comment.
The last straw will be when they impose bans that affect fountain drinks.
didn't Nanny Bloomberg spitball banning large sodas?
It's in the bag.
Must tards always ruin everything for everyone else?
Christen, I have met chumby... And you are no chumby
Hey, it's a field where even professionals are allowed to give the amateurs a pun for their money.
This doesn't pass mustard with me.
Sounds like I’m caught in a pickle.
My condiments to the punsters
They want to condemn-your-mints.
These fascists relish the idea that the rest of the nation will ketchup.
you're just trying to curry favor with this crowd...
LA still trying to put the squeeze on any small businesses that survived the lockdowns.
They certainly mayo.
I hate you all so much.
That’s weak sauce.
It's astounding how much this forum reflects daily interactions with the teenaged fruit of my loins. In that vein...
*big hug*
I hate you too, son.
All of the shit going on in California and this is what they are worried about?
"These goods are also sustaining the fading fossil fuel industry, which is a major contributor to climate change," added Councilmember Paul Krekorian,"
This is what it is actually about. Climate change my ass.
It's more about conspicuous consumption.
Deep down these people are all malthusians to some extent or another. And to a malthusian, waste is a sin because as far as they are concerned, every little bit of waste is one step closer to the malthusian crisis where our needs outstrip supply and mass misery begins.
The problem is that in any good, functioning market, there will be some waste. Because waste is generally caused by a SURPLUS. We have ketchup packets because we have a surplus of the materials used to make those packets, such that we can afford to throw them away. We throw away tons of food every year, because we grow so much of it that it is literally more profitable to throw it away than to move it elsewhere.
Beware the malthusian calling for the end of "food waste" or other sinful examples of conspicuous consumption. Because the opposite of food waste (aka surplus) is people not having enough food to eat. During the siege of St Petersburg in WWII, there was zero food waste, so malthusians could rejoice. And in fact there wasn't even any shoe waste, as people were boiling shoe leather for food.
The people wracked with guilt over throwing away some plastic utensils probably think that disposable plastic straws are the leading cause of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch.
My crazy progressive neighbors were talking about how we were contributing to that last night.
We live in the dead center of the country, about as far as you can get from an ocean.
Even those of us on the coasts aren't contributing much. The ocean plastic is mostly the result of extremely poor garbage collection in Asia.
from the first google hit:
Overall, worldwide, most of the plastic trash in the ocean comes from Asia. In fact, the top six countries for ocean garbage are China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, Sri Lanka and Thailand, according to a 2015 study in the journal Science.
We use straws, but for the most part they end up in a landfill. Other places in the world just dump it in the river where it flows to the sea.
The straw ban, and now the packet ban, are just performative. Make you FEEL like you're sacrificing to an end, regardless of anything actual. So your neighbors, in the middle of the country, are doing precisely as much good as if they lived in San Francisco.
Even that isn't the primary cause, as estimates are that 40% of the plastic waste in the ocean is broken fishing nets.
Great Pacific Garbage Patch.
Even then, the sensationalist portrayal makes virtually every conception inapt. Picture an area the size of Alaska. Now picture about 5,000 Olympic-sized swimming pools spread across it (however you want to spread them). For reference, *every state* averages 5000 olympic-sized swimming pools in it, and that's not counting larger splash pads, lazy rivers, tide pools, and water parks. Lake Mead, between Nevada and Arizona, is approximately 30 million Olympic-sized pools.
If an Olympic swimming pool (or Lake Mead) isn't relatable enough picture Alaska covered in powder rooms, now stack them 30 rooms deep. Now imagine all the powder rooms a small sized city like Indianapolis or Memphis filled with put fingernails (false fingernails for accuracy!). Now imagine all those powder rooms spread across our 30-powder-rooms-deep Alaska.
Not sure which state you live in, but in the middle of the country it's pretty easy to conceptually and the 5-8 states bordering it, any given capital city (or two or three) and spread it across the collection of states.
That's the garbage patch.
conceptually and the 5-8 states bordering it
Conceptually take your state that is.
They are control freaks who can't stand anyone doing anything independently, especially thinking, but including spontaneous market ordering as here. They want the State in control of everybody but themselves, and they will control the State.
California is out in front, as usual, starting a "food scraps" recycling effort. A third of the useful volume of my trash bin is reserved for "food scraps" which the city will supposedly recycle. (I never have any food scraps and wouldn't set them out to attract rats even if I did.) Businesses started "food scraps" recycling in their cafeterias a few years ago, right around the time all the beyond impossible meat substitutes started hitting the market. Supposedly that is just a coincidence, and the recycled food will go into pet food and the like, or to composting.
So, they think that not using plastic condiment packets will affect the fossil fuel industry? What a joke.
And plastics are actually very good for efficiency and saving fuel. Costs a lot more to ship stuff in glass, metal or wood packaging than plastic. And plastics put in a good landfill are basically sequestered carbon.
I’m looking forward to when social signaling requires self immolation. It can’t be far away.
Only if you can do it with electric power.
During the day or high winds, of course.
Not sure if walking into a forest fire caused by curtailing deforestation would count or not.
These are the people who cheered on Thanos, but thought he wasn't going far enough.
Why wipe out 50% of the people when they want to wipe out 90%?
And they always assume they will be in the remaining 10%.
This should include training to teach employees how to count to 10.
Whenever I ask for 2 sauce, I get 6.
One time I was buying something and the total was six bucks and change, so I gave the cashier $22. She kept handing me the two ones back until I said "Just ring it in" so she did. When she saw that I was getting a ten and a five back you could almost see the lightbulb going off in her brain.
Letting her keep the ones. I wonder if she realized what you did? Most places like that have trouble getting ones and fives. A lot of people use ATMs and most of those only give out twenties.
I'm thinking she was mathematically challenged.
Also, I rarely buy condiments. I've got a bag filled with the extras from takeout. Ketchup? check. Taco sauce? check. Soy? check. Mayo? check. BBQ? check. Honey Mustard? check. Though I do have a jar each of wasabi and pickled ginger. They never include enough of that with sushi.
"Though I do have a jar each of wasabi and pickled ginger. They never include enough of that with sushi."
I think we need to propose some legislation that fixes this problem. Obviously the market is not addressing this shortage adequately.
That would be Asian hatred. Not allowed.
This should include training to teach employees how to count to 10.
You say that like it's not already mandatory for employees to have at least 10 yrs. of training how to count to 10 before going to work.
We need to avoid future dystopia by bringing it about it as soon as possible.
I can't wait for the paper version of them like they did with straws.
Gross.
This oughta put us over the top for arresting climate change.
Not with the reconciliation bill being whittled down from 6 trillion to 3.5 trillion to 1.75 trillion. We've got about 8 years left before the Earth is uninhabitable, I've been told. So why worry about some excess plastic?
I can only assume that Los Angles eateries are more generous that those in Wisconsin because I always have to ask for condiments. Might be worth while to do a check first and find out how many of the offending restaurants there really are out there.
It wouldn’t be worth it at all.
You don’t need to do any fact checking because: “We all have an entire drawer full of plastic utensils from the takeout places we've ordered from. All of that plastic plagues our mind with guilt…”
That person must order way more takeout than we do. We have maybe a half dozen packs of plasticware we keep around in case they might be useful for a picnic or something.
Not just order more takeout but . . . do they not throw this stuff away? I mean, when I'm at home I eat with my own utensils and on ceramic plates because I'm not a goddamned animal.
Any extra stuff gets tossed on the trash.
Is this person's house just filled with old takeout containers, napkins, and plastic sports - "I might need them later" - like a hoarder?
Ceramic plates? Fuck that. I'm all about disposable paper plates and bowls. Doing dishes sucks.
Dishwashers are good.
I don't have a place to put one or I would.
He'd have to give up space for the booze.
Isn't it weird how, after eating a meal with a plastic fork and a paper plate, the fork *can* be washed off and reused but the plate can't?
It's almost like the fork is made of some fantastically reusable, sustainable material and the plate isn't.
Also, left to my own devices, I would eat the meal straight out of the pot/pan. I'm told that's uncivilized, which is also a weird concept when the civilization is composed of just me.
Nah, why let reality get in the way of a press release?
Try the Swedish Potato
https://i0.wp.com/www.altnews.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/word-image-23.jpeg?w=719&ssl=1
If they had to pass a law it should have banned putting ketchup on the food itself without a request from the customer.
$12 burger using premium beef cooked medium rare and then some idiot puts half a cup of ketchup on it.
Worse - ketchup mayo blend.
Better -Sriracha mayo blend, or Frank's ketchup blend
$12 hamburger.
Fucking dummy.
$12 burger cooked on the same grill as the $14 cheeseburgers, $12 chicken bacon club sandwiches, and the $12 reuben (with caramelized onions). You can really taste the extra $10 you paid for the beef.
Except they're 15 bucks now. Inflation.
"If we are to overcome the extreme climate challenges we face, we will have to alter or otherwise transform all our habits relating to fossil fuel products, including plastics, and our essential natural resources, like forests," said Councilmember Paul Koretz
I hope this fucker lives in a mud pit and eats his own feces.
Are these people aware that the carbon sequestration of plastics is huge?
You know he doesn't. He's important, so it's important that he has his private jet so he can fly to his biannual vacation spot to Raise Awareness about climate change. For the Climate, of course.
Do the La Brea tarpits still work?
Wait, are people in Kalifornia still allowed to go out and choose their own food?
Yes.
Choice of Soylent Red, Green or Blue.
If green is people, what are red and blue? Puppies?
People. It's all people. Why you think CA wants unlimited immigration? There are only so many lawns to mow.
Maybe a people/puppy blend?
Soylent Green Is Eco Friendly People!
Of course. You are allowed to go to your taco truck where you don't get any condiment packets.
The important people passing these laws still go to sit down restaurants where masked servants bring them condiments in small dishes tastefully chosen to match the ambiance of the setting.
Although I haven't eaten at fast food joints much the past 20 years, virtually every time I did I had to ask for ketchup (because they didn't give me any with my order of french fries).
And yet, every time I asked for just one ketchup packet, I was given a handful with a half dozen packets.
Seems like fast food joints implemented policies to reduce the amount of ketchup packets, but their staff ended up giving far more ketchup packets to customers (who didn't want them).
It cost the employee more time and attention if they get asked for more. Simple economics, but it is the employees optimizing thier own cost instead of the companies.
Side note if any retarded Californian mentions a drout and that we need to conserve water, please flip them off and ask "if there is a drought why did Newsome dump 50% of the reserves into the ocean?
the fuck kind of line is "26 employees"?
Pettiness. So true…
Does this cover that fake soy sauce from Chinese takeout? I've got my own, thanks,
The soy sauce that is 100% wheat with 0 soy? Nasty stuff.
What a soyryy excuse.
Looks like the lockdowns and mask mandates imposed by Democrats and the left wing media's ongoing fear mongering covid porn caused a sharp increase in overdose deaths (just as many of us predicted would occur 20 months ago).
https://dailycaller.com/2021/11/17/drug-overdose-deaths-new-high-2020-pandemic-coronavirus/
But don't expect the left wing media or Democrats to reveal or acknowledge these facts.
Of course not. And what's extra-special about this outcome, is these deaths can be attributed to the pandemic as "excess deaths".
"You see how bad this is you Trumpy McTrumpist? This is why we need to lock down, mask up forever and deliver and endless waterfall of COVID booster shots forever and ever, amen."
They'll acknowledge them as covid deaths.
I think the employee hiring crisis is getting real. My local fast food joint was staffed entirely by what seemed like 14 year olds.
Those were some of my orphans I rented out. Were they polite?
Very. Good orphans.
John Kerry-Heinz totally conflicted about this one
This is proof of how defective California's constitution is, if it allows this level of government micromanagement/meddling of individual consumer transactions.
I was listening to a podcast on Bitcoin of all things with a guy who got did his PhD dissertation on it.
Anyway, I heard one of the best summations of why the problem of climate change attracts such a dangerous element in service of "solving it". The summary was essentially as thus:
Climate change has created the following justifications for central planning each of which simplifies an incredibly intractable and complex problem:
1. We have to save the planet
2. We know what's wrong with it
3. We know how to fix it
4. Our solutions are going to work
5. Our solutions will not produce unintended consequences
6. It's so dire you need to leave us alone while we do this
7. And we know better than you do
That applies to just about anything, be is climate hysteria, "systemic" racism, white "supremacy," and any and all phobias and oppressions. When you make a religion out of something, anything contrary or even questioning is heresy.
While you're at it, try the Swedish Potato:
https://i0.wp.com/www.altnews.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/word-image-23.jpeg?w=719&ssl=1
Greta in 30 years.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/66890686@N02/51686573242/in/dateposted-public/
“We all have an entire drawer full of plastic utensils from the takeout places we've ordered from. All of that plastic plagues our mind with guilt…”
I'm gonna go to Walmart and buy an extra 100 count box of spoons and forks. And I'll have absolutely no guilt about it.
Well, not every fully grown man can be expected to have matured into a fully grown brain.
Shitstain is an obvious example.
BYOS - Bring Your Own Spork
But always remember: Climate change is not a cult.
Best. Speech. Ever.
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~kw/crichton.html
Unfortunately he was right about this:
Because in the end, science offers us the only way out of politics. And if we allow science to become politicized, then we are lost. We will enter the Internet version of the dark ages, an era of shifting fears and wild prejudices, transmitted to people who don't know any better.
To Fight Climate Change, Los Angeles Bans Restaurants From Giving Out Unsolicited Ketchup Packets
IME, Chik-fil-a already abides this policy. *However* if you do ask, they give you their notoriously deluxe 2-oz. ketchup packets which provide more ketchup and overall more packaging, but use less packaging per oz.
Damn those crafty religious conservatives! Confounding our religion's efforts to save the planet before we even come up with the ideas! They're always one step ahead!
Hasnt LA already banned Chik-fil-A? I know NYC did a few years back
Can't wait for the bypass.
Mission Accomplished!
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it on to our children in the bloodstream. The only way they can inherit the freedom we have known is if we [Troy McClure voiceover] stop using excess ketchup packets [/Troy McClure voiceover] then hand it to them with the well fought lessons of how they in their lifetime must do the same. And if you and I don't do this, then you and I may well spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it once was like in America when men [Troy McClure voiceover] used ketchup recklessly[/Troy McClure voiceover].
Another half-measure to rescue the environment and save us when all of our lives are in immediate -immediate - peril. Allowing the continued dispensing of ketchup (and mustard) packets even in response to customer request will not prevent literally millions of tons of the packets from ending up in the ocean, choking shark gills and flavoring mackerel in ways to make dolphins overeat and become obese. The oceans will continue to rise until you can get prime beach property in Denver, Colorado. Ban all such packets. Arrest and incarcerate any customers who request one. No more half measures!!
:golf clap:
What was done was seen.
I missed it. Thanks for helping me ketchup.
What CA is doing now deserves a new term: nanomanaging.
"If we are to overcome the extreme climate challenges we face, we will have to alter or otherwise transform all our habits relating to fossil fuel products, including plastics, and our essential natural resources, like forests," said Councilmember Paul Koretz, co-author of the ordinance, in a Tuesday press release. "These goods are also sustaining the fading fossil fuel industry, which is a major contributor to climate change," added Councilmember Paul Krekorian, another co-author.
____________
Of course, the fossil fuel industry holding such immense influence over our highest levels of government has far greater environmental and global-warming consequences than those of other big business interests.
Furthermore, corporate lobbyists actually write bills for our governing representatives to vote for and have implemented, supposedly to save the elected officials their own time. I believe the practice has become so systematic (at least here in Canada) that even our mainstream news-media's political commentators seemingly don’t bother publicly discussing it. It's but a part of the corp-ocratic way. ...
A long, revelatory review (by Geoff Olson, for Common Ground magazine, 01/10/2018) of the book 'The American Deep State: Wall Street, Big Oil, and the Attack on U.S. Democracy' notes that the book's author describes big oil CEOs and lobbyists in the U.S. as being a very large part of the American Deep State.
Therefore, it would be a large part of the national Capitol’s ‘swamp’ that Trump and his fans claim has corrupted DC and ergo is after his presidency.
So, considering the Trump administration’s kowtowing to big fossil fuel (mostly via the loosening of environmental protections), he seems content with wallowing in it—far from genuinely wishing to “drain the swamp”, as he and his fans claim.
"...So, considering the Trump administration’s kowtowing to big fossil fuel (mostly via the loosening of environmental protections), he seems content with wallowing in it—far from genuinely wishing to “drain the swamp”, as he and his fans claim."
Oh, goodie! Another TDS-addled asshole!
Stuff it up your ass - your head needs company.
"All of that plastic plagues our mind with guilt until we throw it all away and start the cycle again"
It's a good thing that they have that in their mind, otherwise, there would be nothing to fill the empty space between their ears.
The Weather-Gods religions added commandment --
#10023452300134 - Thou shall NOT serve unsolicited ketchup packets!
Whatever happened to a separation of church and state?
Oh yeah; The Weather-Gods have paid-for 'environmentalist' propagandists (i.e. weather-god scientists) who all wholly word must be trusted against mere opening of doors and looking outside.
If I can't have my tiny plastic ketchup packets, I'm going to foment revolution and blow the whole thing up!
Then for sure I'll get my tiny plastic ketchup packets and everything will be normal again.
Shitstain assumes this is "clever". It isn't; it's whining by a boot-licker.
It is just a modest tax on tea…
First they came for the tiny plastic ketchup packets, and I said nothing.
"Hitler was an OK guy right up until he gassed his first Jew. If he'd only forced all the Jews to brush their teeth and use less ketchup (consequences of refusal not stated) he would've been an idyllic leader."
Virtue signaling at its finest.
Will this apply to businesses that give out free condoms, or is it just condiments?
Or free needles with plastic caps?
They reuse the syringes?
"To cut down on plastic waste and reduce our carbon footprint, our safe injection site has instituted a one-size-fits-all policy. All injected drugs must be administered in single-dose 10 mL syringes."
Would be funny (in its stupidity) except that'll never happen. What would happen is diabetics, allergy sufferers, people with various other metabolic disorders, infertile wannabe mothers, and legitimate medical need needle users of all types will get a one-syringe-fits-all mandate from which recreational drug users and trannies are exempted.
More idiocy in LA-LA-land...
I pick up trash at the beach here in Los Angeles, and I hardly ever find ketch and mustard packets; it is mostly hot sauce packets. I assume they are included in the law, it doesn't say.
To preserve a livable climate, greenhouse-gas emissions must be reduced to net 0 by 2050. Zinoleesky songs by changing our habits we can tackle the climate emergency & build a sustainable world. One Step at a time.. we will get there