Don't Worship an FBI That Took the Steele Dossier Seriously
Why trust an agency that conceals information from judges but prosecutes us for lying to it?

New York Times columnist Bret Stephens now says he was wrong to defend James Comey when then-President Donald Trump fired Comey as director of the FBI amid the federal investigation into alleged Russian influence on Trump's 2020 presidential campaign.
In 2017, when Trump fired Comey, Stephens saw it as proof that the president was trying to obstruct the investigation against him. "When the president calls news 'fake' or a story 'phony,'" Stephen wrote, "you know the truth quotient is likely to be high. And, again, you know he knows you know it."
But revelations about the FBI's poor handling of the investigation, as well as a new federal arrest related to the sourcing of the unsubstantiated Steele Dossier, have Stephens rethinking what he thought he knew.
And Stephens is not the only one apologizing for getting the story wrong. Some media outlets, including The Washington Post, have had to issue corrections and removed inaccurate reporting about the infamous Steele Dossier, which attempted to show corrupt ties between Trump and the Russian government that both left him open to potential blackmail and threatened national security.
Earlier this month, the Department of Justice charged Igor Danchenko with lying to the FBI. He allegedly covered up the fact that he was the source of some of the information in the Steele Dossier and attempted to conceal the fact that some of the information actually came from Democratic Party sources, rather than Russian ones. The Washington Post, by contrast, reported in 2017 and 2019 that a Belaurisan American businessman named Sergei Millian was a source for the Steele Dossier and was behind the claim that the Russians had video of Trump getting golden showers from prostitutes in a Moscow hotel room. The Post has now updated that reporting online, including editor's notes explaining the changes and why they made them.
Stephens notes that the media's handling of the Steele Dossier is itself a scandal, but he's more focused on how FBI agents misled the overseeing Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) Court when they filed warrant applications to wiretap Carter Page and downplayed and omitted information that might have caused the FISA judges to question or even reject the warrants. The feds were investigating whether Page might have been compromised as a foreign policy aide to Trump's campaign with ties to Russia through gas and oil consulting work. Page's name appeared repeatedly in the Steele Dossier.
Thanks to an internal audit of the FBI's operations, we've since learned that the agency regularly screws up warrant applications to secretly wiretap or surveil American targets. This is a big deal because the secrecy of the FISA Court means there's no outside review or oversight. The FISA Court's job is to make sure that the FBI is not violating the rights of Americans when agents snoop on them; when the FBI is not properly thorough in vetting the information it's using for surveillance, the FISA Court might not even know it.
Stephens correctly identifies these and other endemic problems within the FBI:
Of such dross was spun years of high-level federal investigations, ponderous congressional hearings, pompous Adam Schiff soliloquies, and nonstop public furor. But none of that would likely have happened if the F.B.I. had treated the dossier as the garbage that it was, while stressing the ways in which Russia had sought to influence the election on Trump's behalf, or the ways in which the Trump campaign (particularly through its onetime manager, Paul Manafort) was vulnerable to Russian blackmail.
Instead, Comey used it as a political weapon by privately briefing President-elect Trump about it, despite ample warnings about the dossier's credibility. In doing so, Comey made the existence of the "salacious and unverified" dossier news in its own right.
One irony here is that some media outlets were initially correct to be skeptical of the Steele Dossier. For example, CNN only reported on its existence at first, leaving Buzzfeed to publish the full contents in 2017. Many media ethicists at the time were openly skeptical of the dossier's contents and critical of BuzzFeed for publishing it. Reason Editor at Large Nick Gillespie bluntly called the dossier "horseshit," adding, "If you've ever wondered why the news media is treated with derision and distrust, today is your lucky day."
Unfortunately, many people's political opinions about Trump shaped their opinions about the FBI and the Steele Dossier itself. As Stephens notes, it was absolutely correct for the FBI to investigate the allegations against Trump's campaign and to look for the possibility of Russian meddling in the election. But the credibility of the investigation changed entirely when the FBI concealed information that suggested there might not have been a fire behind the smoke.
This is a consistent problem for the FBI and a reminder, as Stephens observes, that the agency has a history of not being trustworthy. It's also a reminder that the bizarre faith that Trump's critics placed in Comey was entirely misguided.
You won't find many fans of Trump, nor fans of Comey and the FBI, here at Reason. As Reason has reported, the problems within the FBI long predate Trump. And even the new charges against Danchenko look shaky under scrutiny. After all, he has been charged only with five instances of lying to the FBI. He has not been accused of any other misdeed. The FBI often deploys such charges when it can't prove an underlying crime, an approach that raises big civil rights problems. Funny enough, that is exactly what happened to Michael Flynn, who was charged not with corruption or treason, but with lying to the FBI about his discussions with a Russian diplomat.
It wasn't Danchenko who used the unverified Steele Dossier as evidence to support the secret wiretap of Carter Page. That was the FBI, whose agents knew the dossier was suspect and still used it anyway.
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Breaking, defense just asked for a mistrial without prejudice from the judge in the Rittenhouse case.
Live.
The defense received an 11th hour compress, cropped video from the prosecution that the prosecution is now calling a "glitch". The source of the video is in question, the entity which provided the video (Urban Air) has mysteriously dissolved and the individuals who provided it are "not available".
The source of the video is in question, the entity which provided the video (Urban Air) has mysteriously dissolved and the individuals who provided it are "not available".
And, in case you or anyone else missed some of the relevant context;
Not exactly sure what "Urban Air" does as a business, but the above combined with the 11th hour release of this video is so, so very fucked up.
...disappeared like the 9-11 video from the C- store showing a MISSILE NOT A JETLINER streaking towards the Pentagon.
The video played once in network TV ( that I saw) then disappeared.
Prosecution called the fact that the defense wasn't given the proper evidence as "unfortunate" and "a glitch".
Given the previous reprimands the judge gave to the prosecution for trying to put unapproved evidence before the jury and questioning Rittenhouse exercising his 5th amendment rights, the idea that this was a glitch is not credible.
See above. The defense was aware of, asked for, and was denied the additional video during trial as the video "no longer existed".
I sorta alluded to this in my original post about the drones. It was pretty astounding to think that the FBI, without prior knowledge, had one drone looking at just the right part of Kenosha at just the right time.
Even if you take (took) the FBI at their word and the video just 'no longer existed', someone at the FBI (or in their employ) destroyed evidence in, from the prosecution's perspective, an active murder case. And the prosecution's take was "It's the Federal Government, whaddyagonnado? Wah wah."
Fuck. Nuke it all from orbit. Purge the ashes with fire. Trump 'outsider' or 'diverse' enough (in the ideological sense) to get the job done? Do we need to elect a no-shit pyromaniac to go around setting literal fire to government buildings?
Even better... the Manual for the program the Prosecution used to enhance the images explicitly says it is not for use in trial, only for investigation. And the prosecution then said the manual was not submitted for evidence, so no foul.
Worse, the judge basically said he was ready to toss the whole thing with prejudice and begin and investigation into the prosecuting team for their misconduct .
And the defense team that had already asked for a mistrial with prejudice, said they would be happy to accept a mistrial without prejudice.
I am totally convinced now. The dumbest conspiracy theory about this entire trial is true. Both teams of lawyers are trying to throw the trial. That is the only way to explain this level of idiocy.
Robert Barnes has been dropping black pills all week. What a catastrophe.
I am totally convinced now. The dumbest conspiracy theory about this entire trial is true. Both teams of lawyers are trying to throw the trial. That is the only way to explain this level of idiocy.
Hold my beer. Grosskreuz' gun belongs to the FBI.
Not entirely serious, but the gun was illegally owned, he was barred from owning one as part of a misdemeanor weapons charge. His background check should've flagged him. He was picked up and released for loitering in the area prior to the riots. There's video of him carrying said gun concealed. He shouldn't have been able to qualify for a permit. He was subsequently arrested for DnD and released. For a two-bit scumbag, that's an awful lot of mayhem and an awful lot of teflon.
Picked up with illegal concealed handgun and released with it?
Is that real?
You say 'released' like he was arrested.
How real do you need it to be? More real than court-admissable video evidence showing him, as determined in court, carrying a gun and first hand testimony on the stands that he had a weapon and no valid concealed carry permit? More real than that?
My favorite absurdity is the widely-supported defense of Grosskreuz' "I thought he was an active shooter." defense. Like they were all a bunch of normal civilians sitting in Church and Kyle just barged in where he didn't belong. Grosskreuz wasn't engaged in a felony (trespassing? civil unrest?) setting a dumpster on fire, Grosskreuz was just an innocent guy sitting in his own backyard when gunfire erupted and he tried to take action. It'd be like watching the trial after Taken and one of the Albanians pleads, in court, "I thought he was an active shooter."
to FBI thats a " feature" not a " bug"
Like not getting bin Laden and dumping his neighbors body ( or bags of trash) at sea.
BBC interviewed people in the area who said they did NOT kill him.
More Absolut Corruption from the US Govt! ( the one swearing theyre " protecting" us.)
Steele Dossier Seriously?
BIGGEST POLITICAL SCANDAL IN HISTIRY!
Facts.
Here's your facts Diane, as presented by the GOP led Senate Intel Comm in their 2020 report. Enjoy!:
"(U) Beginning in March 2016, officers of the Russian Main Intelligence Directorate, the
GRU, successfully hacked computer networks belonging to the Democratic National Committee
(DNC) and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), and the email
accounts of Clinton Campaign officials and employees, including Campaign Chairmap.John
Podesta. Over the following months, these hackers carefully established persistent access in
confidential areas of the victims' systems and stole massive amounts of politically sensitive data
and personal communications. The data was subsequently leaked by GRU personas and
WikiLeaks at strategic moments during the 2016 election, as part of a coordinated hack--and-leak
operation intended to damage the Clinton Campaign, help the Trump Campaign (the ·
"Campaign"), and undermine the U.S. democratic process. 1110
(U) The Committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin directed the hack-andleak campaign targeting the DNC, DCCC, and the Clinton Campaign. Moscow's intent was to
damage the Clinton Campaign and tarnish what it expected might be a Clinton presidential
administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican
nominee, and generally undermine the U.S. democratic process. The Committee's findings are
based on a variety of information, including raw intelligence reporting. ...
(U) The hack-and-leak campaign was conducted by the GRU through specialized cyber
units, executed using established GRU infrastructure, and planned and coordinated by GRU
headquarters elements. ...
In addition to publishing the stolen documents, the Russian
personas used social engineering to seed information with specific individuals associated with
the Trump Campaign. The GRU also relied on U.S. social media platforms and media attention
for its influence operations.
-WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian
campai~knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort. The
Committee found significant indications that Julian Assan e and WikiLeaks have benefited from
Russian overnment su art
After receiving the GRU' s materials, WikiLeaks timed its document releases for
maximum political impact..
While the GRU and WikiLeaks were releasing hacked documents, the Trump
Campaign sought to maximize the impact of those materials to aid Trump's electoral prospects.
To do so, the Trump Campaign took actions to obtain advance notice about WikiLeaks releases
of Clinton emails; took steps to obtain inside information about the content of releases once
WikiLeaks began to publish stolen information; created messaging strategies to promote and
share the materials in anticipation of and following their release; and encouraged further theft of
information and continued leaks.
(U) Trump and senior Campaign officials sought to obtain advance information about
WikiLeaks through Roger Stone. I
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf
And what explicitly do you think those facts even prove?
So far the biggest russian intelligence used to influence government and the election as that fed through Steele in the dossier.
WikiLeaks has been explicit that it did not receive the emails from Russia. No proof has ever been offered up that it has. Only the IC, the very same group using the Dossier, ever stated it was from Russia. The FBI used the testimony of a FusionGPS (again the same people pushing the Dossier) as the testimony to claim Russian hacker tools were used in delivering the leaked emails.
It is amazing watching you idiots continue to fall for the same false storylines being debunked over the last year.
Take it up with the GOP majority on the Senate Comm that wrote report a year ago Jesse, after several years of "raw intelligence", thousands of hours testimony, and a large staff to analyze and put it together. And you believe the weasal at Wikileaks? He's a long time Russian asset.
The report based on faulty information Joe?
Can you possibly be this stupid?
Jesse, for the last time, the Senate Intel Comm report came from A GOP LED COMMITTEE, it is based on 3 years of witnesses, analysis, and raw intelligence, and was published in Aug 2020, making it essentially the most up to date report we have. You have a bunch of amateur special pleaders trying protect Trump. Guess what? So were the GOP majority on this report but facts are facts and they maintained their integrity.
“Jesse, for the last time,”
Promise?
Seth Rich is calling u a fool. He laughs at your dumbass. As u actually think there's a difference between the Neoliberals and NeoCons. U must work for MSM as u SAY a lot nothing in your over use of the typed word.
The Phucko Knows
You do realize the doj and fbi both admitted they used the allegations from Crowdstrike, not their own analysis, for that report right dummy?
You can just admit you're ignorant. Save some time.
"And you believe the weasal (sic) at Wikileaks? He's a long time Russian asset."
For the benefit of the thread, it has never been shown that Assange is a Russian asset. It is amazing how quickly Team Blue sold out Assange as soon as he inconveniently started embarrassing President Murder Drone and the democratic party.
Sure Overt, especially given all the Russian secrets he's revealed.
Wait!
Hold up. Are you saying that WikiLeaks had Russian info and refused to publish it, or are you trying to make a false equivalancy argument because your an idiot?
Joe’s an idiot that’s best to ignore. It’s a better use of time trying to argue with squirrel.
"And what explicitly do you think..."
Asshole Joe does NOT think; the lying piece of lefty shit repeats talking points.
Why anyone bothers to engage such a dishonest piece of shit is a mystery to me.
And what explicitly do you think those facts even prove?
Pretty damning of the competence of the DNC. Especially considering that it was the sitting President at the time's job to prevent such action. If only someone at the FBI had known about the hacks and reached out to the DNC, maybe the whole thing could've been prevented.
Or maybe it was a more protracted cultural thing, you know? Like the DNC just got used to sloppy 'security through obscurity' like storing secure information on email servers without anything bad happening, until it did.
In any event, it's clearly evident that they've wised up and haven't done anything stupid like throw unencrypted hard drives in the trash.
done anything stupid like throw unencrypted hard drives in the trash
My bad, haven't done anything stupid like throw unencrypted hard drives and illegally-obtained firearms in the trash.
My favorite part of the everything that we were force-fed over the last four years is that the people who pushed it will never take an "L".
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of steaming lefty shit. The lying asshole turd should fuck off and die; his family would be proud.
Damn, you continue to find witty and hilarious ways to meticulously dismantle anti-Democrat narratives. This is right up there with your best work SLOPPY PULLOUT and HAPERINFLATION.
#DefendEstablishmentDemocratsAtAllCosts
I apologize for forgetting that in the Pantheon of Fake Scandals the all-time winner will always be BENGHAZI!!!!! BLOOP! DERP! SUSAN RICE!! ARGHH!!
People that traffic child pornography no doubt would prefer the FBI investigating fake scandals instead of focusing their resources on this actual, horrific crime.
iow Biden.
LOL
As if that came anywhere near the ironclad fact that Drumpf has been a Russian intel asset since 1987.
Or the fact that with Drumpf in the White House Russians were literally controlling the US government.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of steaming lefty shit. The lying asshole turd should fuck off and die; his family would be proud.
Fake Scandals the all-time winner will always be BENGHAZI
Tell us about Benghazi, Buttplug, and why you don't think that it matters.
See above. If the Obama Administration and DNC had taken the whole "Don't store secure information on insecure servers." the least bit seriously, not even publicly, not even to Hillary's detriment, just an internal to the DNC or between the DNC and the WH, in the background, "Oh Shit! Get the servers secured and run everybody through the 'How not to fall for phishing' spiel", the whole "Russian Hacking" incident could've been avoided. They didn't even do that.
Even if you're cheering for the DNC, that's pretty damning. Like, regardless of how you feel about drunk driving, the drunk stumbling out of his car after closing time and, despite scolding, saying, "I don't need to lock my car. I'm drunk." is pretty stupid.
You know, given that courts are now arguing that executive privilege does not really exist after the President leaves the WH and Hillary received zero punishment for doing so...why would ANY President not use a private email acct to communicate with aides?
why would ANY President not use a private email acct to communicate with aides?
Not entirely sure what you mean. If the 'not' above is accidental, agreed. Presumably, emails sent on government servers during the Presidency would still be privileged. If you mean they won't be privilideged after he leaves office, agreed.
Additionally, if 'private email acct' means 'hacked server sitting in a bathroom closet' (and per above, they will never get privilege), disagree. If it means 'all mail sent to a guerilla mail account, forwarded to a protonmail account, forwarded to an anonaddy account', agreed.
Go to prison.
I don't know about "biggest," but using the FBI to harass political opponents is pretty bad, especially when you use knowingly false information to trigger the start of it.
Isn't it interesting that certain people can't find the slightest ounce of concern to spare when we are talking about literally using the forces of government to spy on political opponents?
But only when they're really bad people, like actual fascists or something who want to do fascist things like enforce the immigration laws that were passed with overwhelming bipartisan support.
These tactics will never be used against a heroic champion of the workers like Bernie Sanders, or even a future Obama-type who comes out of nowhere to seize the nomination from the Establishment's favorite.
Remember when we they all said we were a third-world kleptocratic dictatorship because Trump got elected?
1/6 happening openly for all to see was a coup attempt, but using the FBI behind the scenes to suppress political oppositions is just how democracy is supposed to work.
Harass? I suppose you could use that word..
Although if you actually look at what they did, I think there are much bigger words you could use.
They were so cocky about what they were doing that when they sent the FBI after Flynn and the FBI reported directly to the president, vice president and top DOJ officials that he did nothing wrong, Comey suggested that they send the agents over to interview him before the incoming team could get properly set up to answer legal shenanigans.
The FBI agents actually asked if they were being sent to set him up to lie in order to get him fired or to arrest him.
And that was the small potatoes version
Nobody sends the CIA and state department officials to set up one of their own informants for a process crime in order to get them to testify against the incoming president "by accident". This wasn't about overstepping a little bit to get a warrant because you knew there was a crime underway.
We now know that Obama was briefed on the Clinton plan to smear Trump with Russia allegations *before* any of this happened.
It is a lie to say anything less. "They cut corners on a warrant" is a lie. It was 100% fraudulent, not some edge case where bad judgement was used in an honest but misguided effort. They knew it was fake because they were involved in faking it.
And now they're back in charge.
In many ways they never stopped being in charge.
thats the job of Deep State ops. Remain in the shadows...
"BIGGEST POLITICAL SCANDAL IN HISTIRY!"
Today's Buttplug:
It’s Not Real
It’s Russian Disinfo
It’s Real But Doesn’t Matter
It Matters But Not Very Much <-- YOU ARE HERE
This is Old News
Shut Up Racist
Look, the FBI wanted the same thing we Koch / Reason libertarians wanted. Namely, an end to Drumpf's Presidency and an establishment Democrat to replace him. Let's not throw our national security state allies under the bus.
#TrumpRussia
#LibertariansForTrustingTheFBI
I think you may be revealing an inconvenient truth.
Unfortunately a Balls Deep State Republican won in VA and a more Trump Republican lost in NJ—the Deep State will keep winning thanks to clueless Republican voters.
I have said it before, and will say it again, if you are waiting on the republicans to save us from the deep state, don't hold your breath. The Packers and the Patriots both want to win the Superbowl, but neither of them is going to dismantle the NFL. Even in losing, they stand to make more money in second place.
I like that.
Scott, you took the Steele Dossier seriously and so did every single one of your writers. You never wrote an article expressing any skepticism and neither did any of your collegues. You instead spent your time writing an article that can only be described as "felatio in print" where you argued that denying John Brennan top secret briefings was akin to "fascism".
Seriously, do the Kochs give you guys bonuses for lacking all self-awareness?
Also let's not forget that you wrote an article mocking the Nunes memo which turned out to be more accurate than the mentally challenged John Bircherism that you were pimping. How low IQ do you have to be to be dumber than Nunes?
The gaslighting and revisionist history is par for the course at this point.
So even when you agree with the guy you've got to bitch about it? Sheesh.
He was wrong and maintained the charade even after it was obvious that it was nonsense. He was desperate to maintain a lie because it matched his perverse politics. Keep simping for him, though, he'll probably sleep with you
I'll take that as a yes.
You have become a true progressive idiot. Never give up hope that your last 4 years were not as big a waste as the previous 50.
But remember, sarc is not a progressive. He's just a solid libertarian simply defending the abuses of the federal government all while covering for Democrats.
Nothing about that means he's a leftist.
Don't listen to Just Say'n, sarcasmic. He's lying.
Shackford won't sleep with you no matter how hard you simp.
Why not just let the drunkard dream?
If I feel he’s blowing smoke up my ass, yes. Oh, if there was a sincere Mea Culpa That would be different. What This jerk does is stand with you and turd, until some enough facts come out that’s his position becomes uncomfortable, and then says I was skeptical The whole time. Doesn’t fly.
This. Not a single Mea Culpa from Reason either.
"Scott, you took the Steele Dossier seriously "
I just went back through Shackford's posts, and haven't seen a single one taking the Dossier seriously as far back as 2016. I sure as hell saw a lot of articles from Shackford treating all the "Evil Russian Interference" reports with healthy skepticism. And the only times I see him comment on the Dossier, it was pointing to articles about its unraveling (Like who was Steele anyway, and the background with Fusion GPS).
I may be wrong or missing some tweets or something, but do you have anything specific pointing to Shackford taking the Dossier seriously?
Jesse provided some links below and I don't believe you went through his articles through 2016.
He literally went to bat defending the Carter Page FISA warrants alleging that it was well established that Page was a Russian agent. All of that is false. All based on the dossier. You don't get to re-write reality because your favorite clown publication was pimping lies again
The FBI will steel their resolve as they will still attempt to steal the truth as they did with Steele.
That's Hillaryous!
I peed the bed.
I hope it's not the same bed that SPBP2 Comeyd in.
Wonder if Stihl makes a woodchipper.
Actually, you got those verbs reversed.
Seems like they've pissed away their credibility.
Don't Worship an FBI
This really has to be said here?
Did they forget that their readers are libertarians? Why would we have trusted the FBI in the first place?
You should review the comments from then, because most of you had your mouths full of FBI dick
I'm relatively new to posting here, but the most recent actions I can recall from the FBI, the Veritas raid and the "watch list" for detractors of school boards, was met with some fairly hefty criticism in the comments. Not 100% mind you, since there is a decent range of people that post in these comment sections.
I hope you don't subscribe to this rag. You should check out Reason's front page "Sanction Russia for Lolz" by self-described "neocon libertarian" (literally only exists in Koch world) Cathy Young. All the comments were pretty unadulterated TDS on all sides.
By far the writers were the worst offenders of falating the FBI, but the commentators were just as bad, particularly Dan S and Radical Individualist (that also simps for the FBI every time).
Don't confuse the people in the comments with libertarians.
You are a perfect example. Thanks for chiming in.
Sarc is to libertarianism as Jennifer Rubin is to conservatism.
She also pushes out a collection of a handful of past quotes and thinks that satiates her non consistent beliefs.
Sarcasmic has assured us that he and White Mike are the only real libertarians here. Everyone else is wrong or something.
You sound more like Jeff/Mike every day.
No, they forgot they are supposed to be libertarians.
It needs to be said to leftists.
Did you read Reason during the Trump presidency? The mocked accusations of FBI misconduct and then when it was revealed to be true Shack of shit here waived it away and said "actually the FISA courts always make mistakes". So yes it has to be said here, primarily for the writers of this publication that are on the whole just regurgitating the NYT editorial page uncritically
This is true. They should be embarrassed. Unfortunately, they still don't get it. They hold positions that have been indefensible since mid 2017.
Scott Shackford spent the past 5 years worshipping the FBI
Damn! And here I already had new worshiping pants on, the ones with the reinforced knees and the flap in the back that I had bought back when Obama was running but before I found out he was half white so I never got a chance to use them. I guess I'll just have to put them back in the closet until Pete Buttigieg gets elected President.
He had to remind himself.
While unrelated, I think this song will go over well with this motley bunch of miscreants:
Friendly Neighborhood Narco Agent
the mea culpa is nice but Stephens was such an ass with the "you know he knows it"
As Reason has reported, the problems within the FBI long predate Trump.
Go peddle your deep state conspiracy wares elsewhere, Reason.
"As Reason has reported, the problems within the FBI long predate Trump."
He really should have added "but we dropped all criticism of the FBI when the mean old orange man came around". At least be honest.
It was paused.
As long as the FBI persists in refusing to audio-video tape "interviews" and interrogations, or to allow a recording to be made, there can be only one credible explanation for their intransigence, and for their insistence on using FB-302 forms to "memorialize" "interviews" and interrogations. That explanation is that it allows them to lie with impunity about what the interviewee or defendant said!
It's a beautiful system for them and a potentially disastrous one for whichever John Q. Citizen happens to have an interaction with them. Even if everybody in the FBI is honest, the agent taking notes of the interaction may misunderstand what was said or meant. He may also introduce inadvertent error or bias in the 302 Form he fills out from his notes after the interaction. [Do you believe everybody in the FBI is honest? Do you believe 50% are honest?] If the citizen disputes in court under oath what they say you said, Catch-22 descends and he is charged with lying to a federal agent.
But never mind the honest mistakes. If one monkeyed-up FB-302 form is good, think how handy two or three or six monkeyed-up forms can be for the Feebs. One can have you admitting to treason, another can have you plotting a presidential assassination or the kidnapping of a governor, yet a third can have you admitting to bestiality with a preference for "stump-broke" ewes, a fourth proclaiming your fascination with 11 year old girls, a fifth describing the amount (in tons) of illegal narcotics you have sold, and the sixth describing how you planned and executed the burning of Seattle. The sky is the limit to what can be alleged that you said, with a clean cut, serious looking, un-smiling FBI agent testifying to your admitted perfidy in court. Of course, a compliant plea agreement can forestall this. And that 302 where you proclaimed your love of 11 year old girls will never come to light if you testify as the agency needs you to in an upcoming case; in such a situation, would you not only sing, but also compose lyrics that would suit the "Special Agent in charge" of your case (and future)?
Bottom line - when what a witness says conflicts with what an FBI agent says that witness had earlier said it will, more often than not, be correct to presume the FBI agent is lying until and unless they have some video evidence, duly examined for tinkering by the defense, to back up their well-practiced prevarications. How else can an agency that rewarded Lon Horiuchi with a promotion, and decided they had to burn out the Branch Davidians to save them (siege tactics having lost their sex appeal) be regarded? Have you colluded with any Russians lately?
While I totally agree that the FBI should be recording these things, it needs to be repeated over, and over, and over again, that you should NEVER EVER EVER talk to the FBI. Ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
If you don't have the time to watch that video (and you should, and sit everyone you love down in front of it) here is the gist:
Even if you tell the absolute truth and you are innocent, you could end up giving them points in a trial against you.
For example, imagine they have a recording of you saying, "I never shot the guy, I don't know him, I wasn't even near the Dennys that night." This testimony could be (and has been) used in the following ways:
* The officer says on the stand, "Funny thing is, we never told him that this was a shooting- only a murder." (Never mind if he told you this was a shooting RIGHT BEFORE pressing record. It now looks to the jury like you had knowledge about the event in question.)
* The prosecution is able to show that the guy goes to the same gym as you, or goes to the same church, or you have common friends and they say you were at a party once together.
* The prosecution finds someone who mistakenly says, "No, no, I saw him at the corner store, right next to the Dennys that night!"
In all these cases, the fact that they can contradict a piece of your testimony through mistakes or lies hurts your case.
Never. Ever. Talk to the police or FBI. Once they are "interested" in you, you are never going to talk them out of that interest. The only thing that will make them not interested is a lack of prosecutable material. Don't give them that material by talking to them.
Not even to say hi.
If I am ever on a trial where "lying to the FBI" is the basis of any charge, I will absolutely be voting aquital and pushing hard to make sure everyone else is on board. If it ain't on video, I do not believe them.
If you were ever on the fence, they cop to the whole thing with once question in a white house meeting. "Are we going there to get him to lie to get him arrested, or just to get him fired?"
Everyone glossed that over at the time. But beyond that case, it shows that the FBI is so cavalier about framing people and lying about what was said in interviews, they have no trouble discussing it openly in a large group of top white house officials, including the FBI director and the top DOJ attorneys.
Get that... They openly discussed commiting serious felonies that easily could be construed as treason in front of the president, vice president, attorneys general and FBI director. What does that tell you??
“and the sixth describing how you planned and executed the burning of Seattle.”
This wouldn’t actually get you in any trouble.
True story, the fake "criminal justice reform" guy at this publication bemoaned that Roger Stones didn't receive seven years in jail for lying to the FBI about something that wasn't illegal.
That about sums up about how "critical" the staff of Reason looked at the FBI during that era
Fuck the FBI.
Dude, guys risk their life protecting the nation. I know one - through a prosecutor - who acted undercover for 2 years as an east coast mob guy hanging out in clubs with a west coast ethnic gang leader, then went home at 3 AM to his wife and kid in SF. His work locked this guy and fellow gang guys for decades. You need to honor that.
ethnic gang leader
they made Donnie Brasco 30 years ago
The sad thing is I don’t think Joe realizes that he’s a fucking joke.
Are you referring to "Joe" as in FJB, or "Joe" as in Joe Friday the fellator. It was kind of hard to tell in your comment, because both of them are jokes.
he's since been reassigned as undercover in a virginia PTA to get the goods on those dangerous domestic terrorist parents
You jerk offs don't have those balls, never will, and you know it.
I didn't name the ethnicity of the gang leader because it might lead to recognition, including the prosecutor and the FBI agent. They don't need traitor creeps like some who hang out here knowing about them.
Can I buy a vowel? If not, I’d like to solve the puzzle.
You're right, it's not easy being an FBI agent. With all the lying and creating fraudulent terrorist attacks all while harassing parents that have the temerity to attend a PTA meeting.
Thank for enlightening us, bitch boy
Las Vegas baffled them...
1 or 2 shooters? Thats some tough math.
They must have had Janitors fill in for Agents?
I didn't name the ethnicity of the gang leader because it might lead to recognition, including the prosecutor and the FBI agent
LOL, you're so full of shit, DOL.
“I didn't name the ethnicity of the gang leader”
Poor Joe doesn’t realize what’s so funny about this.
thats called a Peotection Racket. Mafia.
In case you hadn’t realized it yet, Joe Friday is a dipshit that thinks he’s accomplishing something here.
Been body slamming Trolls for 10+ years..
Yes JF is an idiot...
You MAGA creeps should be kissing FBI butt for Comey's knee cap of Hillary 2 weeks before the election. He announced that she was still a subject of an investigation - completely violating FBI policy - while not mentioning that the other major candidate, Trump, was also under FBI investigation. He ashould have shut up about Hillary or announced both investigations. There is no way Trump wins his EC victory - he lost the vote by 3 million - with either of those scenarios.
He saved Trumps fat ass and he owes him and the FBI.
your universe is almost as insane as Strazele's. entertaining though.
Dillenger, maybe you can tell us anything not true in my post.
Well, no you can't.
like I said, different universes. Galileo did time for all of us.
Why anyone engages the lying piece of lefty shit asshole Joe is a mystery to me.
Right here.
completely violating FBI policy - while not mentioning that the other major candidate, Trump, was also under FBI investigation.
Comey and McCabe are fairly typical incompetent Bush Republicans, and they accidentally threw the election to Trump. Comey despises Hillary and I believe Obama appointed him in part to keep the Clintons from unethical behavior knowing he would be the FBI director if she became president. Apparently Hillary was ecstatic when Trump fired Comey but she was advised to tone it down in public.
Subsequently, the FBI destroyed all of Hillary's email evidence. Andrew McCabe was rewarded with a large bribe and a promotion at the FBI. He also had his full pension restored recently by the DOJ.
Trump's Russia investigation was sparked by Comey's firing. If Hillary would have been elected job 1 would have been firing Comey with no consequences and installing her own FBI guy, like they did in Bubba's first term. With no consequences.
100% !!
Woo-wee, the fake Steel Dossier has certainly lit up the chat.
Man, you get angry when your whole false narrative that you've constructed over the past four years just falls apart.
On the other hand, if Comey hadn't previously given Hillary very, very special treatment, she would have been in prison for centuries, and the Democratic national convention would have had the chance to pick a less repelling candidate.
"Don't Worship an FBI That Took the Steele Dossier Seriously"
Also, don't trust a news media that kept taking this seriously long after it became clear that it was all bullshit.
See below dummy.
https://reason.com/2021/11/17/dont-worship-an-fbi-that-took-the-steele-dossier-seriously/?comments=true#comment-9215295
LOL. Your post that is based on IC corruption utilizing a FusionGPS linked source?
Jesse, the Senate Intel Comm did not rely on the Steele Dossier. No one did after early 2017 and it did not even trigger the Trump campaign investigation.
No, it relied on even more fraudulent and dishonest shit.
George Soros, paid for his own investigator to work for the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee to plant the fake Trump-Russia story–and that then-Senator John McCain let him do it.
George Soros personally paid for an investigator, former FBI analyst Dan Jones, to frame Trump through his political organization called The Democracy Integrity Project (TDIP).
The Senate committee got Jones’s services for “free” — thanks to paymaster George Soros. Jones’s job was to look into the DNS data that purported to “prove” links between Trump and Russia on behalf of the committee.
Those “links” turned out to be ordinary mass marketing emails from Trump properties. This effort, then, was to poison the Senate committee with the fake narrative. McCain knew it was phony and went along with it.
This was compounded with false testimony from Michael A. Sussmann, a D.C.-based attorney, who testified to the FBI that there was a secret channel of communications between the Trump Organization and a Russian bank.
Sussman was just charged with making a false statement to the FBI on Sept. 19, 2016. The charge in the indictment stems from a set of allegations brought by Sussmann to the FBI related to an alleged secret channel of communications between the Trump Organization and a Russian bank.
Here's his grand jury indictment: https://www.justice.gov/sco/pr/grand-jury-indicts-dc-attorney-making-false-statements-fbi-2016-regarding-alleged
As alleged in the indictment, on Sept. 19, 2016, Sussman, a lawyer at a large international law firm, met with the FBI General Counsel at FBI Headquarters in Washington, D.C. Sussmann had requested the meeting to provide the General Counsel with certain data files and “white papers” that allegedly demonstrated a covert communications channel between the Trump Organization and a Russia-based bank. Sussmann, who had previously represented the Democratic National Committee in connection with a cyber hack, falsely stated to the General Counsel that he was not bringing these allegations to the FBI on behalf of any client. This false representation led the General Counsel to understand that Sussmann was providing information as a good citizen rather than a paid advocate or political operative. In fact, Sussmann assembled and conveyed the allegations to the FBI on behalf of at least two clients, including a U.S. technology executive and the Clinton Presidential Campaign.
Everything you believe are lies, "Joe".
Mother, the Senate Intel Comm Report came out in 8/2020. At that point, McCain had been dead for a year and not active in the Senate for more than a year and a half.
The Senate Intel Comm Report does not allege "a secret channel of communications between the Trump Organization and a Russian bank."
Perhaps you can read the excerpts I presented or follow the link and read the entire report which documents the traitorous behavior of Trump and his campaign in 2016.
At that point, McCain had been dead for a year and not active in the Senate for more than a year and a half.
Christ, have you never been part of a committee? Ted Stevens likely has some authorial impact there.
Why anyone engages the lying piece of lefty shit asshole Joe is a mystery to me.
Give him a break, it's all he's got left. Every narrative he's worshipped has fallen apart and he just can't handle it. It's actually quite entertaining.
Which was the first day.
Russia hoax parrots, maybe you haven't heard of the GOP led Senate Intel Comm Report which came out in Aug 2020.
Enjoy!
"(U) Beginning in March 2016, officers of the Russian Main Intelligence Directorate, the
GRU, successfully hacked computer networks belonging to the Democratic National Committee
(DNC) and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC), and the email
accounts of Clinton Campaign officials and employees, including Campaign Chairmap.John
Podesta. Over the following months, these hackers carefully established persistent access in
confidential areas of the victims' systems and stole massive amounts of politically sensitive data
and personal communications. The data was subsequently leaked by GRU personas and
WikiLeaks at strategic moments during the 2016 election, as part of a coordinated hack--and-leak
operation intended to damage the Clinton Campaign, help the Trump Campaign (the ·
"Campaign"), and undermine the U.S. democratic process. 1110
(U) The Committee found that Russian President Vladimir Putin directed the hack-andleak campaign targeting the DNC, DCCC, and the Clinton Campaign. Moscow's intent was to
damage the Clinton Campaign and tarnish what it expected might be a Clinton presidential
administration, help the Trump Campaign after Trump became the presumptive Republican
nominee, and generally undermine the U.S. democratic process. The Committee's findings are
based on a variety of information, including raw intelligence reporting. ...
(U) The hack-and-leak campaign was conducted by the GRU through specialized cyber
units, executed using established GRU infrastructure, and planned and coordinated by GRU
headquarters elements. ...
In addition to publishing the stolen documents, the Russian
personas used social engineering to seed information with specific individuals associated with
the Trump Campaign. The GRU also relied on U.S. social media platforms and media attention
for its influence operations.
-WikiLeaks actively sought, and played, a key role in the Russian
campai~knew it was assisting a Russian intelligence influence effort. The
Committee found significant indications that Julian Assan e and WikiLeaks have benefited from
Russian overnment su art
After receiving the GRU' s materials, WikiLeaks timed its document releases for
maximum political impact..
While the GRU and WikiLeaks were releasing hacked documents, the Trump
Campaign sought to maximize the impact of those materials to aid Trump's electoral prospects.
To do so, the Trump Campaign took actions to obtain advance notice about WikiLeaks releases
of Clinton emails; took steps to obtain inside information about the content of releases once
WikiLeaks began to publish stolen information; created messaging strategies to promote and
share the materials in anticipation of and following their release; and encouraged further theft of
information and continued leaks.
(U) Trump and senior Campaign officials sought to obtain advance information about
WikiLeaks through Roger Stone. I
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf
You really don't understand what you're posting or how that piece of the report has been discredited at this point do you? The FBI admitted the DNC/Hillary servers were never turned over to them so they relied on the forensic evidence of a Hillary/FusionGPS linked firm.
You are completely ignorant to reality. LOL.
Jesse, your BS excuses were not even believed by the Senate Republicans. This report was completed in Aug 2020 after thousands of hours of testimony, "raw intelligence", and analysis by staff. You're relying on discredited old BS.
Why anyone engages this lying piece of lefty shit, asshole Joe, is a mystery to me.
once in awhile for the giggles.
Agree. He’s 0 for a lot lately. Ans it is boring watching minor leaguers that can’t hit the curveball.
Chumby, you brain dead MAGA creeps aren't my intended audience, lurkers are. Anyone still loyal to Trump is clearly beyond reason and hope, so presenting irrefutable evidence like in this thread is not targeted at them. You're just a prop.
If that's your goal then you should probably hang it up now. You're a terrible advocate for your own cause.
I have no use for Trump, but spamming the same flawed analysis as if it's the word of God isn't going to convince anyone.
nor is your baseless Trump hating " I didnt like him.."
. You Lying Liberals were fiaming at the mouth about that on his Day One, not bc of anything to do with him, but being butt- hurt as Killary Clinton LOST.
Youre too stupid to he lecturing others about making logical comments.
Go get a life.
Like Trump had a friend in the Senate Republicans.
SQRL 2.0
At the same time, the Russians were feeding "intel" for the Steele Dossier.
They were sowing discord on both sides.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/2021/11/12/hillary_clintons_russian_helpers_556446.html#!
Requires a subscription - but you can still 'hear' the article (the player at top of the article body).
Don't worship the use of force over reason, faith over facts, fraud over reality.
"In the long run we are all dead." This is true in a society that institutionalizes murder/suicide politics, e.g., the worldwide paradigm. Countering this with capitalism, i.e., a non-violent economics based on reason, rights, choice, makes a mixed economy and species survival possible. When the popular politics wins, we are all dead.
But, wouldn't it be better to replace the present politics with non-violence? Wouldn't that reconciliation of non-violent politics with capitalism eliminate the confusing, contradictory societies that suffer from war and social decay? Also, it would end the boom/bust economics created by political intervention. It would take the political violence out of our lives and help stabilize society.
Statist/authoritarians say that would create chaos, as if their violence doesn't. They lie. They are parasites. And they control the narrative to perpetuate their exploitation of us. They keep getting the majority to vote, i.e., forfeit their sovereignty to rulers, forfeit their freedom, forfeit their choice, and tell them it's the only way to live, to be safe, to be happy. It certainly makes "them" happy to control others. But is it really conducive for "the common good"? I think not. Non-thinkers disagree.
Indeed.
Sullum saying not a big deal they used false data to get Page since they could have gotten a warrant easily anyways.
https://reason.com/2018/01/31/it-would-not-have-been-hard-to-justify-s/
Shackford saying there is really no evidence that the Dossier used to get Page was that big a deal, Nunes memo had nothing in it.
https://reason.com/2018/02/02/white-house-releases-classified-memo-all/
Sullum saying Trump ordering the DoJ to look into the Steele Dossier was wrong.
https://reason.com/2018/05/22/outraged-by-politically-motivated-doj-pr/
And that's just a brief sample. It's fair to say that the staff at Reason either have IQs hovering somewhere around room temperature or their pretty obvious hacks all auditioning to be the next Dave Waddle so they too can be stenographers for the DNC.
And Yellen says spying on everyone's bank accounts is no big deal because the data are easy to collect. I'm seeing a pattern here.
The revisionist history bullshit by Reason lately is both comical and enraging.
If you worship the FBI or the CIA, you are almost certainly a shithead.
Check that: remove almost.
The FBI, once a respected agency, is now no better than a bunch of political Keystone Kops. Believe one useful court defense for some people can be their politics, if they are conservative. They can state they believe they were being investigated by the FBI solely on the basis of their politics. Could be enough for a juror/jurors to decide the person is innocent or cast doubt on their guilt.
When was the FBI respected? I always assumed most people respected an FBI agent's wife's boyfriend more than they did the agent
I respect agents Mulder and Scully to some extant.
Even at that, a good portion of the respect was from the original "Fuck the government." and later, "Fuck the FBI." attitude.
I think it was more feared than respected. It been a dirty organization since Hoover.
Check out some of the things done to MLK or Jean Seberg under COINTELPRO.
McKayla Maroney is not impressed by the FBI either.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/15/politics/gymnasts-senate-judiciary-committee-larry-nassar-hearing/index.html
Olympic gymnasts McKayla Maroney and Simone Biles ripped the FBI and the Justice Department in Senate testimony Wednesday for how FBI agents mishandled abuse allegations brought against Larry Nassar and then made false statements in the fallout from the botched investigation.
"They allowed a child molester to go free for more than a year and this inaction directly allowed Nassar's abuse to continue," Maroney told the Senate Judiciary Committee after recounting the vivid details she provided the agent interviewing her about Nassar's abuse.
"What is the point of reporting abuse if our own FBI agents are going to take it upon themselves to bury that report in a drawer?" she added.
Apparently Nassar wasn’t a political target.
And to think, we're supposed to think the FBI isn't targeting parents despite their claims - especially with that memo (they confirmed) that compares parents to human traffickers and drug organizations.
Parents are trafficking clumps of cells.
Okay, one more time.
The FBI did not take the steel dossier seriously. Every single one of them knew that it was fake from the jump. That is the entire point. Saying they took it seriously means you do not understand anything that happened. The entire thing was a fraud. Not just the dossier. Everyone from the agents all the way up to the President of the United States knew the entire thing was fake. That's the entire point
I completely don't understand how anyone can still not get this simple idea through their head. This is all documented. None of it is speculation. It has all come out through various discovery requests and trial documents.
We even have notes from a meeting where the president and then vice president Biden met with the CIA director and the director of the FBI and several top people from the department of Justice to discuss how they were going to frame the incoming national security advisor for a crime. These are contemporaneous notes made immediately after the meeting by an Obama official entirely to cover her ass. The whole thing was a fraud. None of it was real. Nobody involved thought it was real. They did not even pretend it was real amongst themselves for 2 seconds. So stop repeating it. Stop pretending that it was just a misunderstanding. It was a fraud... No gray area here.
A+
“Saying they took it seriously means you do not understand anything that happened.”
Reason still doesn’t understand what happened, yes.
Reason understands what happened just fine, just like the FBI understood just fine what the Steele dossier actually was.
It's all propaganda and manipulation.
Pretending that the FBI is at times incompetent is preferable to the reality that they are a political tool for persecuting political enemies.
And just like the FBI deliberately used the bogus Steele dossier for propaganda, Shackford is deliberately promulgating the bogus idea that this was incompetence.
The infamous “1001” charge of ‘lying to the FBI’ is garbage. It is a fail safe way for them to salvage a garbage case when they can’t prove the original charge. The problem is one of inherent honesty and fairness. The FBI can lie to you all day long over the course of an ‘investigation. They can falsely claim they have ‘eye witnesses’ that don’t exist or have other ‘evidence’ of your guilt while lying through their teeth the whole time. If they can lie to you, you should be able to lie to them. As we have learned recently, they also lied to Congress and the FISA courts. Have any of them gone to jail? Nope. If the rule of law does not apply to the law, how can it be applied to anyone!
"The FBI are great!"
Hillary Clinton.
Speaking of skanks...Kamala must be here....
https://www.the-sun.com/news/4085287/moment-50-million-cannibal-crabs-shut-roads/
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Hell, a lot of lefties still adamantly insist the pee-pee tape is real. They've never seen it, but they "know" it's real.
The FBI didn't "take it seriously". They knew immediately that it was absolute bullshit, but they still knowingly, and feloniously, presented it as evidence to the FISA court so that they could violate the fourth amendment.
-jcr
Oh, and lest anyone forget: the FBI is still the organization that tried to blackmail MLK into committing suicide.
-jcr
Jump or pushed....
" Whats it matter now?"
( quote borrowed from the Queen of Corruption)
What makes you think they ever took it seriously? For the FBI and other government agencies, the Steele Dossier obviously was a propaganda tool from the start.
Oh, that's quaint: Shackford thinks that people actually "trust" the FBI. Has he been asleep for the past half century?
Most Americans view the FBI as a necessary evil, with a significant and growing minority viewing it as unnecessary.
Several Trolls LYING about " didnt take it seriiously..."
Note the evasive deceptive phrasing...with no proof.
They DID bc they spent money and time DOING SO as a tool for political persecution.
I'm just waiting for war because with a regime this stupid, it can't be far off and then it's house cleaning time.
I'm sure you have because your an alcoholic who probably hears that from the liquor store clerk thrice a week.
Liquor store clerk, landlady (heh, landperson), ex-wife, employer... he probably hears it an average of 4-5 times a week.
Yeah that's exactly what QAnon lunatic would say and believe.
QAnon[a] (/ˌkjuː.əˈnɒn/) is an American far-right political conspiracy theory and movement centered on false claims made by an anonymous individual or individuals, known by the name "Q", that a cabal of Satanic,[1][2][3] cannibalistic pedophiles operate a global child sex trafficking ring that conspired against the former U.S. President Donald Trump during his term in office.[2][3][4][5] QAnon has been described as a cult.[6]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon