Your Next Car May Refuse To Start if It Thinks You've Had a Drink
Get ready to pay for new nanny-state technology and for bypassing the unwelcome intervention.

Warning lights and noises are a regular part of the driving experience in vehicles that increasingly nag us about tire pressure, seatbelts, and engine status. Sometimes the alerts are helpful, but a new round of innovations mandated by the infrastructure bill might disable our cars if built-in technology determines that we're intoxicated—or if, as seems inevitable, it just goes haywire. The one guarantee is that we'll have to pay for the added complexity as we're forced to use nanny-state systems jointly developed by the auto industry and the federal government.
"Not later than 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall issue a final rule prescribing a Federal motor vehicle safety standard under section 30111 of title 49, United States Code, that requires passenger motor vehicles manufactured after the effective date of that standard to be equipped with advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology," reads language buried in the massive and recently passed federal infrastructure bill.
The bill defines the technology as a system that can "passively monitor the performance of a driver of a motor vehicle to accurately identify whether that driver may be impaired" and "passively and accurately detect whether the blood alcohol concentration of a driver" is above 0.08 percent. If the system decides that a driver is being naughty, it will "prevent or limit motor vehicle operation if an impairment is detected."
Certainly not coincidentally, the auto industry recently unveiled technology that would satisfy the requirements of the bill by basically building a breathalyzer into every car.
"Today, the Automotive Coalition for Traffic Safety, Inc. (ACTS), a Virginia non-profit, announced that the first product equipped with new alcohol detection technology will be available for open licensing in commercial vehicles for the first time ever, in late 2021," the group announced on June 2 of this year. "The new technology is the result of extensive research, development and testing by the DADSS Program, which is a public–private partnership between ACTS, which represents the world's leading automakers, and the U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)."
For this first pass at integrating alcohol-detection technology into cars and trucks "drivers provide a puff of breath directed towards a small sensor, which can be outfitted in the steering column or side door trim." The initial system is intended for fleet vehicles, though the federal legislation makes it clear that the goal is to build the technology into all new automobiles within the next few years. Future implementations of the technology are intended to be less intrusive, monitoring blood-alcohol content without requiring any actions by the driver (by infrared light in one implementation). ACTS promises that the system will be able to distinguish between drivers and passengers. If an excessive blood-alcohol concentration is detected, the technology "will prevent a vehicle from starting or unlocking a vehicle's transmission," according to the group.
Maybe advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology will work as advertised, but history suggests the technology will run up against the limitations of all real-world systems in terms of glitchy technology and uniform mandates across a diverse society. Those of a certain age may remember that seat belt interlocks were briefly mandatory in the 1970s, until an infuriated public pushed back against technology that prevented cars from starting unless they buckled up, or if the sensors just went bad.
"The result was that grandmas, grocery bags and guard dogs alike triggered the no-start unless the belts for the front seats they occupied were fastened first," Mike Davis, who liked the law, wrote for The Detroit Bureau in 2009. "Plus, people rejected the Big Brother attitude of forcing them to buckle up before they'd bought into the notion."
I distinctly remember my father getting pointers from a car salesman on how to disable the interlock on a new car purchase. That's become common practice as our vehicles become more nanny-ish, prompting drivers to bypass the more annoying features of purchases intended for transportation rather than their ability to nag. The internet is full of tutorials on how to disable seat belt alarms and EPA-required idle start-stop features. No doubt, clever tinkerers and entrepreneurs will quickly offer workarounds for the mandatory alcohol-detection systems. But they'll still be in our cars as potential points of failure, and as impositions for which we'll have to pay even if we bypass the technology.
"It's going to be expensive," Carla Bailo, CEO of the Center for Automotive Research told AutoWise about the alcohol-detection interlock in August. "People are going to cheat. It will be tough to manage."
How expensive is uncertain, since the technology is in early stages. But technology inserted between the driver and the operation of the vehicle will certainly cost something. Idle start-stop technology reportedly adds $300-$400 to the cost of a vehicle and alcohol detectors will be an extra expense on top of that—soon to be supplemented by the return of seat belt interlocks on at least some vehicles. That will be a fun addition to purchases that have already soared in price over the last year. Vehicles designed to second-guess our judgment and bully us into compliance don't come cheap.
In addition to expense, advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology represents a new degree of automated intervention and surveillance. As deputized agents of the state, our cars will decide, accurately or not, whether we're drunk, and potentially record that finding for authorities to access.
It is "extremely important that a technology designed to control human behavior not be imposed before it is clear that civil liberties are protected and the technology works properly – without false positives where law-abiding drivers can't start their cars and false negatives where law-breaking drivers over the legal alcohol limit rely on the technology to make the dangerous assumption that they are safe to drive," the American Highway Users Alliance objected in a letter sent to lawmakers in 2020 about an earlier version of the requirement. "We also have privacy concerns regarding the government-mandated location identification called for in the bill, how collection and storage of driver alcohol data would work, and who would have the rights to such data."
The alcohol-detection mandate "will give law enforcement another tool to invade everyone's privacy as soon as they enter a vehicle" the National Motorists Association bluntly added this month.
So, start saving your spare change. You'll need the extra cash for you next car purchase in order to afford the nanny-state interventions that you don't want, and the clever and probably illegal techniques for bypassing the surveillance technology that you wish you didn't need.
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Good thing I already own a bunch of old cars.
That said, this is some incredible bullshit. And even if the underlying notion was sound (which, mind you, I don't think it is) the idea of automatic reporting to the government when the sensor goes off is a terrifying and disgusting ratchet jump in the nanny state power set.
Prediction: Much like how the thing that completely killed the seatbelt interlock was a woman who couldn't get away from a rapist when her car wouldn't start, the thing that finally nails this to the ground will be a woman who dies of hypothermia after a night of drinking because not only wouldn't the car start so she could drive, but won't start so she can even run the heater.
I specify a woman because if it happens to a man, the outrage won't be high enough.
I specify a woman because if it happens to a man, the outrage won't be high enough.
OT: I just watched Red Notice on Netflix this weekend. C-/D+ (*Spoilers?*). Among other stupidity, at one point, Gal Gadot hooks a variac up to The Rock's testicles. Not only is this not rectified, but is confirmed in universe by the plot twist.
This was supposed to be a comedy adventure. Are we ever going to get to the point where a woman's vagina gets hooked up to car battery for laughs?
Are we ever going to get to the point where a woman's vagina gets hooked up to car battery...
Boy, do I have the movie for you!
...for laughs?
Oh. Never mind.
"The Road To Wellville" was supposed to be a comedy... Put me off corn flakes, or anything else from Kellogg's, ever since.
Men in pain has been a comedy trope since before The Three Stooges.
Jesus, what other surprise presents can we look forward in this damned bill? Worst Christmas ever.
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Men in pain has been a comedy trope since before The Three Stooges.
And I don't have a problem with men in pain for comedic or action/entertainment purposes or anyone in pain for agonizing purposes. I was being terse. Prior to shock torture, the 130 lb. Gal Gadot, without superpowers, kicks the asses of both 240 lb. Dwayne Johnson and 180 lb. (?) Ryan Reynolds *at the same time*. This is after both guys punched and shot their way out of a Siberian prison. So I knew, either it's bad writing and there's a plot twist coming, or it's terrible writing and there's no plot twist. The thing is, the plot twist could've completely explained that she didn't actually electrify his testicles and actually would've made more sense that way (and obviated the need for the gratuitous ass-kicking), but Reynolds' character brings the torture up specifically and the other two confirmed that she did indeed electrocute his testicles.
Johnson, Reynolds, and Gadot are their typical selves, which gets the movie into B-C territory. If the entire movie had been unscripted, I'd have given it a higher grade. It's still funnier than that movie where a group of female comedians get distracted from Hemsworth's 'comedy' by being forced to trap ghosts.
Variac...not rectified...I get it.
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Also, "Sure, it's December in Montana, but you had a beer with dinner, so no heated bunk for you, truck driver. Hope you've got a good sleeping bag with you!"
Even more outrage of if it’s a tranny lesbian of color.
Pregnant Transwoman Lesbian of Cor! Try to keep up!
Now imagine it's a Black woman who dies of hypothermia. Or gets shot because she can't escape an attacker.
Well, you can thank Trump and his Trumpican Party for this! If he wasn't such a fucking douchebag Biden would never have gotten elected!
You're doing it wrong. It's the Republicans' fault because 13 out of 213 Republican congressmen voted for this. It's not the Democrats' fault whatsoever, despite 210 out of 221 Democrat congressmen voting for it.
Oh, and it's All Trump's Fault because he Paved The Way for this somehow. Joe Biden? Who's that?
What does that have to do with Trump being so hated that people would have voted for literally anyone but him, resulting in Biden?
That was pretty much it.
2016 Trump won only because of the Electoral College. He actually lost he popular vote. Basically it was a 50/50 race. In 2020 we had another 50/50 race. But Trump was running against someone not so hated as Hillary. So he lost. He would have squeaked out a win if he had run against Hillary clone Elizabeth Warren.
Which is why we need ranked choice voting. Out system propels the worst to the top. 2016 had the two most hated politicians running each other. 2020 had the most hated politician running against a sleep aid.
But Trump was running against someone not so hated as Hillary.
--------------
At the time.
Yes, and that's what matters. The idea that voters are forward thinking analysts is fantasy.
Or backwards cognizant. Voting once every 4 yrs., ranked or otherwise, doesn't address the problem.
we need ranked choice voting
Because Biden wasn't everyone's second choice?
No. Biden does even better in ranked choice voting, because after everyone splits their votes among their first choices, the votes quickly get reassigned to Biden.
Trump is the example you're looking for. He won his primary with a plurality. I'd expect that 60% of the GOP primary voters would have consolidated around someone else before him.
Exactly. Biden was the milquetoaste, Harris was not. With ranked choice the race would have been Biden/Someone versus NotTrump/Someone.
If Trump had been running against the current version of Biden, he’d have won.
I'm pretty sure that he actually did.
You're not getting ranked choice voting in the presidential general election without a constitutional amendment.
You could get ranked choice voting in the state presidential primaries.
By no stretch of the imagination was Trump so bad it warranted rewarding the party of Summer Love.
The mental hoops needed for that speaks so abysmally to our collective intelligence. I’d rather believe the election stolen than that we have devolved to this point.
I gave up on humanity when a gameshow host was elected president.
That’s worse than a governor from some hick southern state?
Yes.
Worse than a guy who takes showers with his daughter?
Worse than the guy who purges the military, illegally mandates violations of bodily autonomy, pushed the Iraq war, put dissidents in jail without trail, and invented a law that permanently locked people in jail for having a half ounce of crack?
You're a monster.
Oh yes. Hicks aren't the problem. People wholly divorced from reality is the problem. Clinton was bad but not terrible. Carter was bad but not terrible.
Hell, even our ex-actor presidents are better than our reality show presidents.
People wholly divorced from reality is the problem. Clinton was bad but not terrible.
Need to be more specific. 'Sniper fire' Clinton was more detached from reality than the game show host.
Clinton was bad but not terrible
Remember when Clinton got caught selling stays at the White House? When of the 938 people that had stayed at the White House, 821 of them had made huge donations to the Democratic Party and Clintons campaign and got the opportunity to stay in the Lincoln bedroom as a result of the donations. Top donors also got golf games and morning jogs with Clinton as a result of the contributions.
Brandyfuck doesn't think that it was terrible.
Remember when Clinton was in trouble for molesting young interns in the Oval Office so he bombed a baby milk factory as a distraction?
Brandyfuck doesn't think that it was terrible.
Remember when Governor Clinton executed a man who was effectively retarded just to show how tough he was on crime? It was awful, evil, and disgusting and it got him elected.
Brandyfuck doesn't think that it was terrible.
I gave up when they awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, a priori, to a bigger warmonger than a gameshow host... for the second(? third?) time.
Ugh. That guy fucked so many things up.
Screw you for making me defend Trump, but calling him "a gameshow host" is like the leftists who said that Reagan was "just an actor."
Keeping Gary and Jo out of the debates is about the same as blindfolding the village vidiocy.
Except they didn’t. Trump got 12 million MORE votes in 2020. The democrats just cheated a lot.
Trump was an asshat, and THAT got Biden elected.
He was an egotistical RINO, and THAT got the Senate flipped.
Trump was an asshat, and THAT got Biden elected.
Trump didn't run in 2008 or Senate in '72. Oh, you mean elected President. Still, not gonna discount that the 40 yrs. in the Senate and 8 yrs. as VP weren't more instrumental.
And Biden will re-elect Trump.
Electoral fraud was the only thing that got Biden elected.
True.
Alcoholics will buy old used cars without the newer automatic braking systems resulting in more deaths because of this law. Good job.
Legislation will follow that outlaws the sale/purchase/ownership of used cars, or requires special permitting procedures ( at great expense ) to buy/sell/own one.
Quest get rid of the democrats and this all goes away.
or make sure the kid with the biggest lungs sits in the front passenger seat
Those will quickly be ignored if they are commonplace. Police won't take it very seriously, kind of like burglar alarms and car alarms....
Car with Alexa Voice: "You've ha enough."
Arthur Bach from Arthur: "BUT I WANT MORE THAN ENOUGH! *CACKLE!-CACKLE!*
https://youtu.be/mwWoJKeumu0
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I'm imagining a little bellows device you could buy online for $30 that blows a little puff of warmed, humidified air.
I'm putting yours and perlhaqr's post above together and you won't stop anyone from drunk driving, you'll just be requiring a sober minor be in the car to start it.
Man, won't even need to go that high tech. Just pull the turkey battery out of the kitchen and you are good.
Despite what your wife has told you, it's not a turkey baster you're pulling the batteries out of.
*turkey baster go brrrrrrrrr
It’ll never be used implemented.
They’ll use eye tracking technology to see that you’re lively and paying attention. That’s it.
Car manufacturers don’t want to be analyzing breath, dealing with disabled cystic fibrosis patients who can’t blow into a system, or keeping essentially medical records of drivers and who takes what psychiatric medications.
Much technologically easier to just watch the eyes and braking patterns and figure out who’s impaired by drivers ignoring hazards.
Halitosis in a can? Spenser's Gifts would make a killing!
This isn't just a Big Non-Binary Sibling nanny-state imposition. It's part of a more general War Against Cars. The Left hates cars because they're implements and symbols of freedom that enable drapetomania in the servile class and more generally contribute to their deplorable uppitiness.
TRAINS!!!
The Left hates cars because they're implements and symbols of freedom
Stop right there.
I know that I've preached this exact point before. Guns and cars outrage the left because the enable and support personal autonomy.
Does The Left include all the Republicans who voted for this bill?
I'm not opposed to including them, but I also wouldn't be shocked at all if they had no idea it was in there. I suspect this is another one of those "pass it to find out what's in it" bills.
"drapetomania"
Thank you. I always hope to learn something new, every time I visit.
Had to look it up....
What will the "left" hate once cars become obsolete?
That is a question that I've pondered in various forms: after the current object of hate is either vanquished or forgotten, what (or who) will be next in line?
I'd suggest that anything that has its roots in western thought or science is potentially at risk. Even western medicine could be the target, since "made someplace outside of the US" seems to be one of the left's fixations. Like a 16 year old learning about the world, what someone else does is always better than the way their parents do it.
After Nagasaki went up, California built the evac-enabling highway system the country copied. By making cars into 5th column saboteurs, progressive socialism can again rely on American inability to scatter the population and reduce casualties from initiation of nuclear force. Legalizing non-depressant enjoyables that do not impair driving ability is of course as unthinkable as defenses against incoming nuclear weapons.
So Greg Babbitt isn't the drapetomania instigator that'll cause fertile women to vote for Beto?
Comstock!
Sarc hardest hit.
It would take him a month to start his car, waiting for the booze to stew out.
You’re assuming his license hasn’t been revoked.
Sarc's mom hardest hit.
FIFY
How about a car that knows your vaccination status and self-drives you to the vaccine gulag?
Automatically delivers the vaxx as a condition of driving, takes a blood sample and does a quick colonoscopy as you are delivered to your destination.
And refuses to drive those with low social credit scores to Antifa mostly peaceful riots as to avoid another Rittenhouse situation (someone defending themselves against assaulting rioters).
“Dave, I see you have an AR-15 in the vehicle. I’m sorry Dave, I can’t take you to the riot.”
HAL over mandating , yet again as always. God help us if we ever get a POTUS named Hal
Just a side note: No colonoscopy is ever quick.
“ Your Next Car May Refuse To Start if It Thinks You've Had a Drink”
What do you mean the car thinks?!?!?
Just wait until the car gets jealous.
Infrastructure! Build Bigger Bullshit!
On one hand, watching the Democratic Party go up in flames is glorious. On the other hand, they're squatting in my house.
Butt-gig is gonna Peter out so hard on distributing the pork too...
Can't believe the police union allowed this to pass. This is going to cut into their racket.
It makes the racket even bigger. Any time the device triggers, automatic DUI. And all the proof they need was just presented to them by the shitty technology the federal government mandated into every car.
If Ted Kennedy was still alive he'd have never allowed this on the Senate floor
Some Cops will never be able start a car for the chase. Well, the Union can get them exempt.
A) They'll probably make a tone more accusing people of bypassing the controls
B) They'll just accuse you of being impaired via other means.
Definitely B) for me.
Funny how these things always lead to a corporation that magically have the technology "ready to go". Any real journalists going to investigate the stock ownerships for politicians?
As above, another "real" reason is to make cars less and less useful to drive everyone to mass transit where they can be more easily controlled.
And the same politicians wonder why used cars are getting more and more expensive.
Of course, the real kicker is that the bureaucrats have the power to define what "accurately detect" means, and to throw a dart at the calendar and say when the madness begins.
As above, another "real" reason is to make cars less and less useful to drive everyone to mass transit where they can be more easily controlled.
Multi-pronged; drive everyone to mass transit and effectively convert cars to such. My latest vehicle came with cruise control. What they don't tell you is you can't activate the cruise control without also turning on the LIDAR. The minimum safe distance on the LIDAR is 2 car lengths. Which means, on a 2-lane highway, if you set the cruise control to 65, the speed limit, and get caught behind someone doing 40; the cruise control keeps you at 40. Too far behind them to pass safely. Too short for someone behind you to do so. Like it was designed to queue up a train of cars all set to drive at or below the speed limit.
I love cruise control. I think there should be a number pad somewhere within reach of the driver that allows you to press '65' and hit the cruise button or even just say out loud "Computer. Warp 6.5, engage." I could see even see remotely competent interfaces replacing the gas pedal. Instead, I've got a car that won't do 65 when you set the cruise control to 65.
My 2020 Subaru does the same thing, but I override the computer by simply stepping on the gas. Pass the slow car and the cruise control re-engages.
My 2010 Subaru couldn't pass itself on the highway. Floor it at 65 and... give it a sec... wait... 70... wait... another second or two... 75 ... c'mon... you can do it...
But Subaru provides all kinds of virtue signaling. Outdoorsy? Eco-conscious? LGTB? Anti-car? Check, check, check, and check.
All wheel drive in the snow-covered north? Lots of cargo space? 300,000 miles is not unusual? Check, check, check.
Yeah, but then I have to use the gas pedal to stay within passing distance, at which point, the cruise control may as well be off. Also, I have yet to use a LIDAR-enabled vehicle that deals with gas pedal overrides in any way that I would consider to be ideal. Maybe there are some out there, but all the ones I've driven insist on 'downshifting' as soon as you get anywhere near being off the gas.
Maybe the problem is I've driven too many/varied vehicles, so things like actually shifting gears while maintaining or changing speeds isn't overly complicated to me. The whole cruise/LIDAR system feels worse than either manual or automatic transmission vehicles. It's like somebody who's never driven a car took a manual transmission and is trying to guess how to make it work like an automatic, which actual automatic transmissions solved decades ago.
It's like somebody who's never driven a car took a manual transmission and is trying to guess how to make it work like an automatic, which actual automatic transmissions solved decades ago.
This same principle applies to autonomous driving writ large, which is why I have my doubts about its actual utility.
Subarus are for lesbians.
Yup. There's a lesbian in my town that owns one. Ugly too...I mean the lesbian.
When I pass, I rarely use cruise control
Right. Cruise at whatever speed until you get within passing distance (on two lane roadways). Turn the cruise off or 'pause' it. Pass. Turn the cruise back on.
With the LIDAR on, cruise never gets you within passing distance. If you step on the gas to stay within passing distance, the second you let off the gas for any reason, the car downshifts to get you back out of passing distance.
Ultimately, I'm astounded that so many of the automated features are so bad and, more importantly, ubiquitously implemented and can't be deactivated or come as a package deal. I think the hard shove from '0' to fully-automated, and everyone fully automated the exact same way, isn't doing self-driving cars any favors.
I guess you must have a different passing technique than I do, because I usually hang back much farther than 2 car lengths when I'm planning on passing someone. When I've got a window coming up, I start accelerating while I'm still in my lane, move left with my foot still on the pedal, and then move back right again. But I use that distance to get more speed so in the oncoming lane for less time.
I guess you must have a different passing technique than I do, because I usually hang back much farther than 2 car lengths when I'm planning on passing someone.
Not inspiring a lot of confidence as a driver, computer user, or human here Mr. Perl Hacker. There are lots of factors that go into figuring out the gap both within and between users (ride height, vehicle acceleration, speed difference, etc., etc.) Point being, when you say "I usually hang back much farther than two car lengths", do you set your internal LIDAR to low, medium, or high and fix it there until the next reboot?
Moreover, and as at least a computer/programming enthusiast I think you would/could/should appreciate this: if you weren't specifically driving for its own sake, but driving in order to do something else, would you want someone to program your internal LIDAR in such a fashion? Yes, I can set the LIDAR to 'medium' and get 4-6 car lengths or 'high' and have 6-8 car lengths but that 'requires a reboot'. Moreover, I can't turn it off without turning off the cruise control (which defeats the purpose of *both* the LIDAR *and* cruise control) even on reboot.
Remember the old 56K v9.2 standard? There were modems that allowed you to physically turn off the digital upstream so that analog downstreams were faster. Mine (all that I recall) was a physical toggle switch. I'm unaware of any modems that tried to automate the process but, I'm pretty sure that any that tried by just guessing at up/down speed ratios were catastrophic failures. Especially once 128K modems and others (and DSL) came out that could just handle any speed between 0 and 128K.
In the old days, we could set the modem bit off for error correction, speeding up downloading.
Drawback, it had to be a pristine connection or downloads got messed up.
Holy shit, you just said everything I was thinking when I drove my first car with "new" cruise control last week. Absolutely awful experience. The whole idea of cruise control is that *I* tell the car how fast I want it go, not the *car* telling me how fast it will go.
The whole idea of cruise control is that *I* tell the car how fast I want it go, not the *car* telling me how fast it will go.
Not even the whole idea of cruise control but transmissions and gas pedals as well. I get that there needs to be exceptions and even that the car should recognize them. But the, "[silent]Exception encountered. Here's your result. Take it or leave it.[/silent]" control flow is just bad programming. Especially when the lane sensors occasionally pick up guardrail shadows as passing lane markers and throw warnings.
They'll probably make a special cruise control for Massachusetts drivers that automatically speeds up by 5-10 mph whenever someone tries to pass them. It's what they end up doing manually anyway.
The main problem with the alcohol sensor is that it cannot yet detect THC, nicotine, trans fats, impure thoughts, or "Let's Go Brandon" t-shirts. At the moment, it appears such technology will not be available until early 2024.
Or the seat detecting your weight and BFI
What is driving the need for this?
Calm down. Let's all take a breath.
hopefully reversed in court.
Won’t pass ADA.
A carload of desire to steer people in the proper direction, socially.
I hope they put the brakes on this.
Stop clutching your pearls.
The feds want ethanol in the tanks and not the tanked.
Police should just pull over every car exiting the parking lot of every bar.
Secretly, as a surprise. Again I am informed of proposed legislation backed by service pistols thanks to Tuccille's journalism, not the looter media.
Just one more illustration of the First Law of Organizations, which states that the primary goal of any organization, regardless of its stated goal, is to perpetuate itself. When you establish an agency or a program without sunset provisions and without concrete goals, its job is never done. It always needs more staff and a bigger budget as it focuses on increasingly minor problems until it needs an infinite amount of resources to address infinitesimally trivial problems. (The EPA finessed this problem when some genius came up with the idea of declaring carbon dioxide to be not only a pollutant, but an existential threat to humanity. Brilliant! You can't help but admire such sheer audacity in evil schemery.)
Yep. This is why all laws should expire every 10 years. Keep the idiots busy passing stuff that needs to be passed instead of finding new things to fuck up.
They should expire every year.
Keep them so busy renewing stuff they can't think up new mischief.
You mean bureaucracy . The first goal of every bureaucrat is to perpetuate the agency and assure more funding.
Next: new phone technology that detects unsocial activity and refuses to start.
In three years, cars will be self driving anyway. Lawmakers are always behind the curve.
You’re assuming the .gov won’t fuck with that as well.
But your self-driving car still won't start if you're drunk
You can just sit in the back seat.
Not completely joking. There was a brat rich kid in Silicon Valley who was posting videos online of himself riding in the back of his Tesla while it was driving down the freeway.
In three years, cars will be self driving anyway.
Yeah, sure, Elon.
'Three years' is the new 'Five years' is the new '10 years'. Progress!
Personal jetpacks are 20 min. away! Give me money.
Interesting. About 20 years ago or so, the New Jersey Supreme Court held that an individual who blows .08 on a breathalyzer is guilty of drunk driving simply by getting behind the wheel of a car, even if the car doesn’t start. This being the case, anytime one of these devices prevents the car from starting means that the person behind the wheel can be arrested and charged with drunk driving in New Jersey.
I am beginning to suspect where the motivation behind this new requirement comes from.
When I lived in Colorado I knew a guy who was busted for DUI because he was drunk in the same parking lot as his car with his keys in his pocket. They argued that because he intended to drive home, that he was guilty of DUI, and he got convicted.
In 1991 I testified in Court for a man charged with DUI. He was driving a Winnebago cross country on vacation and asked the owner of a bar if he could park overnight. The owner gave his permission and asked if he want an electrical cord ran out to the vehicle? The guy said that he didn't need one. About 3 AM the local cop knocked on the door, waking the guy up and promptly arrested him for DUI. I testified that the man intended to remain overnight. Between Me and the Owner the charges were dropped.
Jeez
Good for you. Seriously.
New Jersey has the most corrupt state government, law enforcement and judicial system in the country.
As if. It might add that to the purchase price of the vehicle. But one example, the polyamide coating on the bearing surfaces of the crankshaft ... yeah, like that isn't butt-breakingly expensive, yet fragile technology. In addition to a timing belt at 100,000 miles, you will now need a crankshaft replacement, have to buy it at the dealer, and probably have to have it installed at the dealer because it's so delicate. On top of all the sensors and features and beeping gizmos that make a mild bumper bounce into a $1800 repair these days.
Car dealers love all these features, because every piece of technology they put in a car, makes it more complicated and likely to break, and reduces the lifespan of the vehicle. They subsidize them up front, knowing that they will make multiples of the cost back on the repair end of things, and then sell more new cars to boot.
On the safety side? Starters are a car part that fails. I have replaced starters on cars in parking garages at work, and at home, pretty much the most common places you start a car. On an idle-stop car, where is it going to fail? Anywhere. Busy city intersection, stop sign in the middle of Nowhere, AL, or a random intersection in the most ghetto part of Chicago. Now, where will this breathalyzer part fail? Because it will, all car parts fail, and fail in the most obnoxious way possible.
My son is working on restoring a '61 Chevy truck. We are doing the wiring harness this weekend, a grand total of 13 circuits. This thing is likely to be running after you can no longer buy gas cars; hell, it'll probably be running after I die. If the dealers stop making cars you want to buy, then stop buying those cars; there are thousands of 90s Tacomas on the road. But please wait until I get mine before youse chumps start buying them and drive up the prices.
Yeah, as I pointed out in the 'trillion trees' article, a $300-400 cost does not translate directly into a $300-400 value either. A $300 feature that reduces the usable time of a $30,000 vehicle by 10% is actually a $3300 cost. Even if you think you won't miss the 10% reduction in value doesn't mean someone else won't.
The funny thing is, environmentalists talk about 'externalities' in terms of costs shifted off-planet or into the ether when, in reality, *this* is what an externality is. You can't generate power without producing CO2 (and whatever corrosion, asthma, etc. you extrapolate from that), but you can drive to work without needing a breathalyzer to shut your car off, intentionally or accidentally.
What if you passenger is so drunk the car detects him?
So no more designated drivers. Ah, but the social engineers just meant so well...
This won't last long. It will be like the cars in the mid 70s that wouldn't start unless the driver's seatbelt was engaged.
The 70s were a different time, man. This is the 21st century. It will "just" be mandatory technology for the military, all government vehicles, contracted employers, and, maybe, any states receiving federal highway $$$.
So our defense could hinge on the modern version of the "horseshoe nail" in the form of of a sensor? That's not very assuring.
Familiarize yourselves with the chains of bondage and you prepare your own limbs to wear them. --Abraham Lincoln
No, familiarize yourself with the chains of bondage, so you can reverse-engineer and break them!
Abe should have read his Sun Tzu and Lao Tzu and he could have freed a lot of people without fighting (if he wanted to, that is.)
Members of congress don't even drive themselves so why would anybody in the US complain?
Congress has its own Fuhrerbunker.
What happens when the Uber driver tries to pick up a bunch of really drunk guys? Will their breath stop the car from running?
Will their breath stop the car from running?
"Oh shit! We reek of alcohol. Here, splash on some cologne." - New Jersey
How much longer will cars need to be driven anyway? Driverless may be a tiny fraction on the road for now, but not for much longer.
In the longer run, levitating cars so we don't need roads or aerodynamics, and eventually teleportation, so we don't even need cars.
Completely driverless is never going to work right. It’s total hubris on the part of high-tech companies.
If the big tech companies had any sense they would totally and safely solve the problem that gives 80% of the benefit with 20% of the technical problems: automatic driving on highways and freeways. That would be especially easy to solve with guidance and communication systems built into the highways.
I figure at some point cars will be like commercial airplanes, in that the only purpose of the driver/pilot is to react to the unexpected.
Which leads to a whole other thing, where the car has to try to detect whether the driver is still being attentive.
My car, a CR-V that has done assistive feature, already has this. It tries to figure out whether I’m still paying attention to what’s going on.
A Sister Mary Elephant reminder?
If it thinks I’m not paying attention, it will do things like flashing the word, “BRAKE!”, in big red letters on the dashboard LED display.
Yes, it is a bit like having a nun sitting in the passenger seat nagging you about your driving.
What would she do? Tell you; "Don't think about an elephant or burn in Hell?"
I've never had a new car. New to me yes, but new? Nope. Financially I'm at a point where I could get one when my current ride wears out, but now I'm wondering why. It's just going to be loaded with a bunch of crap I didn't ask for and don't want, that's going to break and cost a fortune to fix.
Mine isn’t new new, either. Just new to me.
Friend of mine bought a car, used, with a $600 payment.
.
.
.
.
Like doubleyou tee eff say what?
I can't imagine paying a car payment of even half that.
It's quite simple. Get them at auction.
The Tightwad Gazette by Amy Dacyzyn told of a man who would buy two Volvos at auction, sell one for double the amount he paid, and drive the other until it died (a hard task for a Volvo,) then take the money from the sale of the first Volvo, go to the auction, and buy another two Volvos. Wash, rinse, repeat 12 times and the man never had to pay for automobiles. I'm gonna try that one day!
And even then all windfalls go to the debt. Other than student loans I'm debt free, and I paid off my last five year car loan in half that. Thought I must give credit to pandemic windfalls.
It's just going to be loaded with a bunch of crap I didn't ask for and don't want, that's going to break and cost a fortune to fix.
Yup. Conceptually, it wasn't my salary that paid for the car or, at the very least, I overpaid paid for a motor, four wheels, and a steering wheel.
It does a good job remembering my seat and mirror positions.
Completely driverless is never going to work right. It’s total hubris on the part of high-tech companies
AS someone who has criticized the living fuck out of "self driving cars", it can work, but will require an entire change to our national transportation structure, including but not limited to extensive (and I mean ex-fucking-stensive) ground-based telemetry systems.
And that's the pragmatic side. I think there has to be a cultural shift as well. Programmers who think that it's OK to drive the speed limit in the left hand lane and programmers who pass on the on/off ramp above the speed limit are going to have to come up with some sort of mutually agreed-upon protocol as well.
It may not matter in driverless car-topia. If every car followed at the exact proper distance, exited and entered the freeways and exits in a clean, efficient manner, then the idea of "getting around" the clump of jammed up cars and priuses blocking the freeway may become a thing of the past. But I can't say because this driverless car-topia is not going to happen in any of our lifetimes.
I live in the snow belt of Colorado. I won't believe in self driving cars until they can drive at night in a blinding blizzard like I can.
GM is already offering that.
Oh, with enough regulations, Section 230 like exemptions, taxes, and subsidies, something that you might call "completely driverless" will likely happen sooner rather than later. And if it scares people away from driving, progressives will be overjoyed!
levitating cars so we don't need roads or aerodynamics
You do realize that just because the car floats, it doesn't defy the other laws of physics, right?
How much longer will cars need to be driven anyway? Driverless may be a tiny fraction on the road for now, but not for much longer.
Where have I heard this prediction before?
Where have I heard this prediction before?
2010, 2013, 2016, 2019...
In the longer run, levitating cars so we don't need roads or aerodynamics, and eventually teleportation, so we don't even need cars.
The floating cars will just cut across your yard, right over your pool and over the back fence!
Oh wait, fuck. Props, Roberta, this was an A+ troll post.
Biden will simply ask Congress for another few hundred billion dollars to make teleportation a reality! As Thunberg, Harris, Sanders, and Biden always say: we are such a rich country, this should be easy if we just tax the wealthy enough!
Idiot proof I’m sure. Someone is already working on an aftermarket product that mimics human breath without the alcohol content.
Red. Barchetta.
Even the oppressive facets of Red Barchetta are exceedingly libertarian compared to this. It was a 'motor law' not a 'body composition autonomy' law.
quite violative of "innocent until proven guilty"
Depends on what the "Motor Law" of the song was. If it outlawed private automobiles, then it's a foregone conclusion how much further they would control the citizenry. It's not like they could get away or anything.
I can assure you that this wont apply to my next car...
The real irony will be when your self driving car doesn't start because you've been drinking.
Is this the same technology that reports if I speed in a Company car? A few months ago my Boss calls me to tell me that I'm in trouble for speeding in a company car. In the meantime he also tells me that I'm in trouble for talking on the phone while driving. I walk around the corner and into his office and I said "Really? Look out the window." The car assigned to me is parked, since I've been in a meeting for the last two hours.
I used to work with the types of sensor that they are referring to. They DON"T measure Ethyl Alcohol. They measure Methyl groups. Alcohol (Ethyl, Methyl and Isopropyl), gasoline, toluene, acetone, MEK and other chemicals. They send a beam of light through a sample of your breath and measure the change in wavelength. These days with the widespread use of alcohol based hand sanitizers, there's going to be a lot of people who's cars won't start.
About 25 years ago, I worked with similar sensors for halocarbons and CFCs. The technology I worked with has been obsolete for a long while. It may be that your sensors are, too.
I live in an area where people drive 5-10 mph over the speed limit as a matter of course because our speed limits are generally set lower than comparable roads in adjacent states. Whenever I see a company car that monitors it's driver's speed, I make a mental note to never do business with that company, though it's usually B2Bs that do that.
Hell, if you accidentally spilled gas on your hands at a fill-up or if you were giving yourself a mani-pedi in a vehicle with the sensors, that would trigger it as well.
RuPaul's gonna be talking to cars and saying: "You Better Work, Bitch!"
https://youtu.be/Vw9LOrHU8JI
To be followed by automatic DUI conviction if the car detects alcohol.
I make research and design gas sensors, including ethanol sensors. I'd put a good amount of money betting that self-driving cars will make this moot well before these systems could be properly implemented.
General gas sensing is a no-go... air currents are far too chaotic to reliably differentiate the driver from any other source. In fact, differentiating ethanol from other sources is already a problem. Electrochemical breath tests, for example, won't work with people with diabetes reliably. Spectroscopic finger sensors are the only thing I could see feasibly working at this time, and there are still a litany of issues with them.
More importantly, self-driving cars offer an actual benefit to the driver/rider, so people will willingly adopt them. But not to fear, I'm sure the government will use their data to track you at all times or something similar. We can't have nice things.
More importantly, self-driving cars offer an actual benefit to the driver/rider, so people will willingly adopt them
And in just ten years, these will be all over the roads.
Need evidence? Oil demand from passenger vehicles is predicted to have already peaked, according to Bloomberg New Energy Finance, and demand from overall road transport is expected to peak in 2031.
Electric vehicles (EVs) currently displace the need for 1 million barrels of oil each day. And by 2040, EVs are projected to disrupt demand of over 17 million barrels of oil per day — a figure steadily on the rise as EV costs plummet.
"The results of our taxes, mandates, and subsidies for reduced oil consumption prove that oil consumption is declining."
Progressives don't want you to drive cars at all; they want public transit for everybody.
So, they win whether the technology is unreliable, inconvenient, or merely expensive.
Real drunks have been defeating these devices for years, from using a lawn tractor to get to the tavern to having their kid blow into the device. It just ends up harassment of non drunks.
But enough about George Jokes.
(It still wouldn't work anyway. DUI laws were based upon laws against riding horses drunk in Colonial days, so they are broadly defined enough to incompass any means of conveyance, including lawn mowers and handicapped carts. I've had to tell several users of the carts in my store this to prevent some horrible accidents.)
Correction, George Jones. Believe it or not, this is just big fingers and a tiny keyboard,. I do not need a breathalizer to use a smartphone...though for some Facebook users, that might not be a bad idea! 😉
Your Next Car May Refuse To Start if It Thinks You've Had a Drink
My next car can lick me.
Without your consent.
Cuomo-mobile.
Crap, Cuomobile... that's even better.
Meanwhile, at the NTSB:
"Mr. Cuomo, I'm sorry we had to inconvenience you with this but I'm sure you'd want closure. We have reports of your cars killing over 15,000 people this year alone, but since the driver history and remotely-filed coroner's report on each one of them clearly shows they died of COVID in the hospital while the vehicle was parked in an assisted living community. So, there's nothing more for the NTSB to do."
*phone rings*
"Excuse me, Mr. Cuomo."
"Hello? Yes. What? The car *licked* you? Yes, I'm getting the paper together on a recall notice as we speak ma'am."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the standard modern libertarian response to this would be, if you don't like this, then don't own or drive a car.
Yes, you are wrong. This is a government mandate applying to all automobiles, making it impossible for someone to deal with this imposition using the market mechanism of buying a car that doesn’t have the unwanted feature.
This is a government mandate applying to all automobiles, making it impossible for someone to deal with this imposition using the market mechanism of buying a car that doesn’t have the unwanted feature.
Just get a new job if you get fired because you weren't vaccinated.
Start your own company, internet, economy, whatever. This one's ours.
Are we taking about an individual employer deciding to require their employees to be vaccinated, or something like the OSHA mandate.
The former is analogous to an individual automobile manufacturer deciding to put a breathalyzer in all their new models. The consumer can buy a car from another auto company that doesn’t put that “feature” in their models.
The latter is analogous to this Federal mandate that all cars have a breathalyzer. There’s no choice left to the auto consumer; or the job seeker (in the OSHA mandate scenario).
If you like your old car, you can keep your old car. Period.
Putting breathalyzers in cars is dumb. No manufacturer would ever propose it as a “feature”.
An individual employer, absent government coercion, can have very good reasons for deciding to require vaccination of their employees. Especially, if their business is providing healthcare.
So, the analogy breaks down because you are comparing something that is a bad idea, that no company would do voluntarily, with something that is a good idea.
Freedom stops at the corporations door.
Paycheck allows for slavery.
The after-tax portion of paychecks allows for corporations to enslave people. For now.
This is not a test. Tune your car radio to the Emergency frequency and follow the incoming nuclear attack evacuation route for your town or zip code. If your car will not start thanks to lobbyists from the Anti Saloon League or Wizened Christian Temperance Union, place your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye. This is not a test.
Wouldn't an EMP attack do that to all of our vehicles anyway?
If you watched "Live PD," many people get picked up for drunk driving, while driving on a suspended license due to a prior drunk driving conviction.
You see news stories of people driving well beyond the legal limit of .08 and causing serious harm.
Now, will someone who had a drink 3 hours prior to starting a car have a problem with the technology? Maybe.
But, having a grandmother who belonged to the WCTU and thought communion wine was not a valid exemption under Prohibition, I can live with this.
But, having a grandmother who belonged to the WCTU and thought communion wine was not a valid exemption under Prohibition, I can live with this.
Is there someplace where I can capture invisible pink unicorns on the internet and turn them in for a bounty? Can I get a bonus if I've been accused of being and invisible pink unicorn? Seems like some semi-farcical cryptocurrency network would be all over this.
AOC coin (Alexandria Ocassio-Cortez? Alice O'Conner? You decide!) - a distributed currency network where you turn in leftists socking so hard as to be beyond even Ayn Rand-style parodies.
You're an object lesson in the heritability of intelligence.
This is crazy! My brand new Subaru Outback (highly rated by almost everybody) fails all the time. I've documented 16 different ways that the electronics fail intermittently. Among them are lane detection (it once tried to drive me off the road when the lane markings went away due to a merging on ramp), driver recognition (it recognizes me about 70% of the time, my partner is recognized only about 25% of the time), the auto step engine feature's turn-off setting doesn't work, undocumented warnings and icons, and many audio system problems. Imagine how well this will work for detecting inebriation.
My Honda CR-V has “intelligent” cruise control, which will brake the car automatically, so all I have to do is steer. Except not really:
- If I’m coming up on a red light and the car in front of me slows down and stops, my car will follow suit. But if there is no car ahead of me, it won’t stop at all — it has no way to “see” red lights.
- If I am driving at the speed limit, in the right lane, and traffic starts backing up or slowing down in the left lane, my car will blithely pass the cars on my left at a relatively high speed. Passing on the right is illegal and dangerous.
- If I’m in the right lane and driving at the speed limit, and a car in front of me turns right, it will unnecessarily jam on the brakes. A human driver wouldn’t do this, because they know the right-turning car isn’t actually going to block the lane.
1. A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws
Good luck with rule 2 and these damn things. Time to invest in a 60s Muscle car without a single chip.
My other car is a VW campervan, but I am going to sell it because it is one of the late 1990s Eurovans, and it is getting harder and harder to source electronics replacement parts.
Ironically, it is much easier to keep an older VW van or Vanagon going, because they are much more mechanically simple.
It’s stupid to use cruise control on a road with stop lights.
Are you from China or from Russia?
Passing on the right is illegal and dangerous.
Passing dangerously is illegal, passing on the right is not. You are entirely free to pass vehicles sitting or driving in the left-hand turn lane(s) (or off-ramp, express, or HOV lane) on the right. You are not free to pass on the shoulder, left or right.
(or off-ramp, express, HOV, or other lane)
If people only realized how tyrannically dictated vehicle manufacturing has become.....
That day; The Nazi-Regime took over the vehicle industry.
The one guarantee is that we'll have to pay for the added complexity as we're forced to use nanny-state systems jointly developed by the auto industry and the federal government.
And the Constitutional Authority of this is WHERE????????
Commerce clause.
General welfare clause.
Interstate commerce clause.
And where the right to kill babies came from.
#1 - Regulating Commerce amongst the States isn't vehicle mandates.
#2 - No such thing; It is the Taxing Clause hijacked by deception.
#3 - Another no such thing.
If you're going to reference the Constitution AT-LEAST read the thing!
...and the last one. Your lying deception of using the term 'baby' where no "baby" by definition exists falls right into your manipulation of the rest of the Constitution itself.
Even if this technology is not mandated by the government, once this technology is implementable, the tort system will drive auto manufacturers to include this system in all of their cars, muck like what was happening with airbags prior to government mandates.
the Honda type nuisance suits by the ten thousands will put a stop to it.
How about a complete, listing of the “ people’s representatives” who foisted this criminal stupidity off on the populace, or might one assume that those who voted for the legislation find no problem with this provision.
Hell, there’s a good chance they don’t even know it is in the bill.
Ignorance of the law is no defense.
In this case, it is prima facie proof of conspiracy to violate constitutional rights.
Sorry boss. Can't come to work. My car thinks I'm drunk!
Driver to passerby:
"Heres a $ 10, blow on this thing down here."
Thanks, now do the car.
The exhaust pipe would burn the Hell outta you!
This . . . "Those of a certain age may remember that seat belt interlocks were briefly mandatory in the 1970s, until an infuriated public pushed back against technology that prevented cars from starting unless they buckled up, or if the sensors just went bad." I remember!
Intoxication detection hardware/software in whatever form it takes is going to run into the same PR buzz saw.
I don't drink. That said if I have a future vehicle that has the technology you can be sure I will do my very best to cheat, override, or shut it off.
I want to thank Reason staff wholeheartedly for helping to bring back normality to our political life!
We all can go back to being screwed over by progressives, regulations, taxes, and inflation, and Reason staff can bask in their moral and intellectual superiority and pleasure themselves while writing ineffective screeds against every single little regulation that comes out of the progressive administration they helped bring about.
Drunks will buy older used vehicles. Again, just harassment of none drunks.
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I heard that spicy foods, etc. can trigger breathalyzers.
All you people complaining about your brand new cars acting like they're trying to kill you have no right to complain.
You bought them knowing full well the technology involved and you fell for it. I have no sympathy for any of you.
You bought into that foolishness, now you have to live with it.
I recently bought a 2015 Dodge Grand Caravan Se that only has cruise control and no other self driving/avoidance crapola or any of that other useless shit. Probably the last vehicle I will buy but if I ever do buy another one it won't be any newer than 2015.
I really wish I had my 1967 Chevy van with 283 and positrac. No fancy computerized this and that. No electronic ignition or throttle body injection no computerized transmission. Three speed on the tree and V8 under the hood.
Never-mind it is Gov-Guns taking all those good options away from it's citizens like a tyrannical Nazi-Regime does.