The U.S. May Stand Alone as a Haven for Free Speech
The First Amendment shields Americans from censorship, but authoritarian legislation in Britain and Canada warns of what could be in store if that protection fails.

It's no secret that government officials don't like the messy business of free speech, especially when it involves criticism leveled at them. Increasingly, they aggregate their grievances, lumping hateful material, vigorous debate, and stuff they just don't like into a catch-all category of "online harms" that they insist must be suppressed by the state. While the First Amendment protects Americans against this latest wave of censorship, authoritarian legislation in Britain and Canada warns of what could be in store if that protection fails and politicians get their way.
The recent assassination of British MP Sir David Amess added impetus to an already strong push for restrictions on speech. Of the resulting uproar from other lawmakers, the BBC noted that "one common thread has emerged – the amount of abuse politicians face online."
"Home Secretary Priti Patel said the government's Online Safety Bill would offer an opportunity for all MPs to come together to close 'the corrosive space online where we see just dreadful behaviour'," added the report.
But the bill was in the works well before the brutal stabbing of Amess, based on a December 2020 white paper complaining that "In the wrong hands the internet can be used to spread terrorist and other illegal or harmful content, undermine civil discourse, and abuse or bully other people." Even earlier, a 2017 U.K. government report fretted that "the intimidation experienced by Parliamentary candidates, and others in public life, has become a threat to the diversity, integrity, and vibrancy of representative democracy in the UK."
While politicians don't like being on the receiving end of harsh words, the draft Online Safety Bill doesn't confine itself to shielding them from vitriol. It also addresses "disinformation and misinformation," "child exploitation and sexual abuse," "terrorism content," and other forbidden material that private services would be required to remove or block. Some issues in the bill are real concerns, but many are debatable at best. The ill-defined terms are unified by little more than that they upset officialdom. Overseeing enforcement would be the Office of Communications (Ofcom) which would be empowered to determine what speech is permitted and what is forbidden.
"The bill does not define what is and is not 'harmful'," objects a coalition including the Index on Censorship, which adds that the law "could lead to the over-censorship of free speech by the Silicon Valley giants as they attempt to avoid huge fines." The coalition warns that "the bill will create two tiers of free speech online: free speech for journalists and politicians, and censorship for ordinary citizens" since it affords privileged status to government-recognized media.
The unfinished bill is also likely to ban online anonymity, so that anything that upsets censors can be easily traced to its source.
Britain's government isn't alone in moving to curb free-wheeling online discussions. Canada too is moving to muzzle speakers and publishers who offend the powers-that-be.
"Individuals and groups use social media platforms to spread hateful messaging," objects a government discussion guide regarding proposed legislation. "Social media platforms can be used to spread hate or terrorist propaganda, counsel offline violence, recruit new adherents to extremist groups, and threaten national security, the rule of law and democratic institutions."
Like the draft U.K. legislation, the proposed law in Canada targets a grab bag of concerns: "terrorist content; content that incites violence; hate speech; non-consensual sharing of intimate images; and child sexual exploitation content." It also conscripts private entities into "a statutory requirement … to make the content inaccessible from their service in Canada within 24 hours of being flagged."
"The proposed approach does not strike an appropriate balance between addressing online harms and safeguarding freedom of expression," objects Michael Geist, a law professor at the University of Ottawa.
"Rather than adopting a 'made in Canada' approach consistent with Canadian values, the plan relies heavily on policy developments elsewhere," he continues. "Yet the reality is that those models from countries such as France, Germany, and Australia have met with strong opposition and raised serious concerns of unintended consequences."
"The Canadian proposal seeks to import the worst aspects of Germany's Network Enforcement Act, ('NetzDG'), which deputizes private companies to police the internet, following a rushed timeline that precludes any hope of a balanced legal analysis, leading to takedowns of innocuous posts and satirical content," points out the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
Germany's legislation, which offloads enforcement of vague rules to private entities under threat of stiff penalties, has served as a terrible inspiration for authoritarian copycats around the world.
"Whereas Germany's initial goal was to curb hate online, the NetzDG has provided a blueprint for Internet censorship that is being used to target dissent and pluralism," observed Jacob Mchangama, executive director of Justitia, a Danish judicial think tank, in 2019.
To use NetzDG as a model for legislation at this late date is to openly spurn civil liberties concerns and embrace the illiberal suppression of speech with little room for appeal.
Neither the British nor the Canadian legislative proposals are compatible with America's First Amendment, which already protects speech regarding race and "terrorism" that will get you arrested in the U.K. and other nominally free countries. The U.S. will be even more of an outlier if its close allies go further down the path of banning content and censoring edgy jokes and arguments.
That is, we'll be an outlier if we retain our commitment to liberty. Polling finds support for free speech in this country remains strong relative to other nations. But researchers say that tolerance for dissenting ideas is eroding, primarily over progressive concerns about equality. As a result, "The range of opinions most Americans feel at liberty to express in school, at work and in conversation with friends and family has narrowed," according to political scientists at Berkeley and the University of Southern California. If that continues, the U.S. may join Canada, the U.K., and other once-free countries as graveyards of free expression.
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US may stand alone on free speech?
Do we realize that the democrat party is absolutely opposed to this notion? They are all in on regulating speech of all types... Their side of the "control the internet companies" debate is entirely centered around having more censorship and more control over speech.
"Hate speech is not free speech" is a mantra for the Democrats. Heck, they even went all in on raced-based rights to speak during 2020.
They have even had prominent leaders call for the repeal of the first amendment.
And in case you missed it... The Democrats are in control of all aspects of the federal government.
But, you know, both sides and everything... So carry on, I suppose....
TooSilly is contractually barred from saying anything negative about Democrats. This is as close as it gets.
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Everything you say is true, but that doesn't detract from the truth that, as messed up and terrible as the US is about free speech, we're still, somehow, improbably, the best. It's absolutely maddening, but the United States, as awful as it is in many ways and out of all the countries in the world, somehow manages to suck the least.
But the lesser of evils is not good enough for some folks around here.
The US is not good enough.
There is a difference between enthusiastically choosing evil and justifying it as better than some alternative and recognizing that not all evils are equal. The US is the best defender of free speech that the world has. That doesn't mean that it's a good defender of free speech. That doesn't mean that the level of free speech the US allows is adequate. The great thing about the United States is that, unlike most places in the world, government is not a thing that happens to you. There isn't a nebulous "them" that you must beg for the rights you demand. Our government here is one that we've made for ourselves, and WE the people should hold it to higher standards than it currently sits.
Never settle for the lesser evil. That damns you to accepting what you are given instead of affirmatively choosing what you want.
I agree that lesser evil is still an evil. However, libertarians usually don't have any chance of winning. Voting for a libertarian means vasting your voice. I want to use my vote to punish democrats for the disaster they've done. What are my options? Vote GOP or vote Libertarian. If I vote libertarian, I don't know who am I voting for because libertarian candidates almost never go to shopping malls or hold town halls. What I do know is that libertarian candidates usually don't win. That leaves me voting for GOP. As appalling as that may be, this is so far the only solution.
Meaning that when Cthulhu rises we won't be the first eaten. Small comfort.
Don't blame just the Democrats. Four years of Trump and his bootlickers shows that the Republicans don't like unfettered speech either. They were doing a big push to repeal/revise 230. Hell, Josh Hawley has made whining about Facebook his core reason for being.
If you can't see that it's both eyes, get your head out of your ass and look around. Both sides. Both. Sides.
Boaff sydez!
Bowwwf!?
Keep shoveling the bullshit, TDS-addled asshole!
True, it is exactly the same to argue that big tech should stop censoring speech versus arguing that big tech should censor more speech.
Those things are exactly the same.
Please, I respect your dedication to pointing out how both sides are generally guilty of the same things, but there are actually times when one side is behaving worse on an issue. In the case of free speech, Dems are much more dangerous than Repubs.
That doesn't mean that Repubs won't be in the future if they get cultural control back, but they ain't right now.
"Don't blame just the Democrats. Four years of Trump and his bootlickers shows that the Republicans don't like unfettered speech either. "
Yes, demanding LESS censorship and MORE censorship are just two sides of the same coin.
ANd the side who wants to mandate that private companies can't deplatform opposition party candidates is clearly cracking down on our freedoms as much as the side that has the President's press secretary openly calling for certain individuals to be deplatformed.
Well yes but then in addition to their opposition to the 1st Amendment they're also opposed to the 2nd Amendment - no guns period, 4th Amendment - search you bank accounts? sure, 5th Amendment - due process? no, 6th Amendment - trial? were you not paying attention to the no due process part?, 7th Amendment - jury? what trial?, 8th Amendment - excessive fines? just give us all your stuff and don't think of it as a fine because it's banned, 9th & 10th Amendments - ok, now you're just trying to punk us since those have been ignored for well over a hundred years.
Oh, if you think we forgot about the 3rd Amendment just try evicting any renter never mind the army.
Dave Chapelle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YuUBI1XwG0
Christopher Hitchins. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4UIjV-BA-U
Are you surprised that "fundamentally transforming" the United States is not a good thing?
What if we call it a "Great Reset" though?
Under this bill, that redundancy is misinformation.
Some people want to run government as a business, which is generally stupid. Now a growing contingent wants to run government as a family, which is even more stupid. How about we run government as a, um, government, with ethics and rules that some guys wrote down 250 years ago.
"I say we run government as a kennel."
"No, stupid, we run it as a hospital!"
"You're so impractical. Let's run government as a race car."
"Race car? Obviously it'd be better as a reclining chair!"
"No, a dishwasher. An electric one, portable."
"A glee club!"
"A rechargeable shaver."
"A Lisp program."
"One of those mechanical rice pickers. No, two of them!"
"An irregular verb."
"An off-season discount."
"A Jewish wedding."
"Government should run like a 3-cushion billiard shot."
"No, it should run like a cold front. In the temperate zone."
I read the first one as "run government as a kernel". Which really appeals to the nerd in me.
Also the similarity to your brain size.
What do people mean when they say government should be run like a business? I understand it as meaning its books should be in order. Nothing stupid about that, though it should go without saying. In your experience, do people mean something else by it? I suppose they could mean it should squeeze as much money out of people as possible and provide its employees with lots of benefits.
To make a profit? That's pretty much what one runs a business for. Probably not what a government should do.
Running government as a business means running it to generate profit for the elected officials. Probably not what a government should do.
Shouldn't at least our wars be profitable? We keep coming home from conquests with no booty.
Well…Don’t we want LESS of those though?
Making citizens watch sensitivity training videos? Having cake in the break room for everyone's birthday?
25 year service awards?
Dunno. It is a Republican talking point that has been spouted by candidates since Reagan, if not earlier. It's never made sense to me since two of the things that are significant parts of for-profit businesses (leveraged spending and making a profit) shouldn't happen with government. But "business experience" is touted as a good thing, which is just weird.
Maybe run it as a non-profit business, which has to balance their books and any surplus has to be reinvested into the company (usually to pay down debt). That would be a great first step.
I think what they mean is a government that understands costs are real, that everything is a tradeoff, that money doesn't grow on trees, and can actually do basic arithmetic. But what we get instead is ever more cronyism.
All things being equal, it seems like lawyers are the least damaging profession to running a government. Not ideal, but better than crony businessmen, whiny teachers unions, cops and jailers, etc. Heck, farmers sound nice until you realize the history of rural populism (free silver, etc).
All things being equal, it seems like lawyers are the least damaging profession to running a government.
Totally disagree unless what you really want is a government with so many unreadable laws/regulations/etc that you need to have a lawyer on-call 24/7.
I really like the idea of sortition - random selection. Solves the careerist mindset which enables corruption. The law of big numbers means occupation and background and demographic presence there. People who want to play hooky are also represented - with the possibility of not having a quorum.
Lawyers should be the employees/staff of the legislature not the representative/critter.
Lawyers running the government is basically what we have now.
Rarely, you do find a person who thinks the government should try to make a profit off of goods and services. The delusion being that then somehow they won't have to pay taxes.
However, most often "run it like a business" is signaling a desire for less debate, less process, less voting, and more "just doing it" fast and decisively. Often goes along with the attitude that the answer to all problems is "leadership" and "determination". IMO that's a great way to run something like SpaceX, but not suitable for the democratic government of a free society.
And what could they possibly mean by running like a family? Like every part should exist in a fixed relationship to the others or the whole? Isn't that standard already? Or they should live together?
Maybe they mean The Family. Financially, government is weirdly similar to the Mob.
Don't know if you remember Ponytail Guy from four or five elections ago.
https://www.cato.org/blog/ponytail-guy-presidency
+1, Earth Skeptic!
We don't need to be tied down by ethics and rules from 250 years ago. Fortunately there is a process to amend those rules, if they are so clearly wrong-headed and out of step with the current times that three-fourths of the states and two-thirds of Congress agree they need to go.
If the present day United States is being held up as the last bastion of free speech and its protection, then we are all well and truly fucked.
But it makes for interesting speculation about the future.
Suppose the US follows the trend, and Freedom of Speech follows the rest of the Bill of Rights into oblivion. Eventually the world is a dystopia of fascist and communist semi-dictatorships. But I believe in markets, not just free markets, but the magic and power of markets, period. I believe cartels always fall apart because someone sees a market opportunity and sabotages the cartel, usually sooner rather than later.
Thus this dystopia would be riven by competition, and chance alone means that the advantages of free-er and free-ish markets will always be a known problem among the elite, constantly disrupting the fascists and communists. Sooner or later, just by random variations, some country will establish a mostly-free enclave. Meanwhile, the fascists and communists will be constantly battling each other economically, each sorry economy undermining the other, much too busy to pay attention to the free one which is running rings around them.
Not a world I'd want to live in, but it's the most likely future I can imagine.
On the other side of things, I remember how fax machines and POTS undermined the USSR, and imagine a future where generalized 3D printing has become the standard way of distributing products: you buy generic feedstock, customized recipes, and make more and more of your products at home rather than ship them from factories. Then there is end-to-end encryption, making it harder for governments to snoop and control. And mesh networks become practical, eliminating central points for governments to control. Dark webs proliferate openly, so to speak. Government has less and less control as more and more of daily life moves online. Possibly, possibly even plausibly, government achieves Marx's dream and fades into insignificance, left with control property taxes and not much to do, because everything people consume comes from 3D printers and generic feedstock -- food, medicine, mesh networks, and 3D printers themselves, proliferating anonymously.
That would be a fascinating world.
My imagination can't imagine this current mess continuing much longer. The Democrats have just run out of other people's money. The Republicans don't want to shrink government. The national debt can't keep on growing; soon enough, the government itself will run out of other people's money, all that debt (close to half a trillion in interest, innit?) will hobble it worse and worse, while everyone screams for more government largesse. Will a balanced budget amendment come along eventually as some kind of great compromise? I saw mention of a Constitutional convention being only 4 states short of reality; could that come out of left field to be the bomb that blows up big government and other people's money?
"I saw mention of a Constitutional convention being only 4 states short of reality; could that come out of left field to be the bomb that blows up big government and other people's money?"
It would be a bomb alright. Triggering one is a realistic possibility, but I see zero chance of coming up with anything that could get 3/4 support. The remaining scenarios are not encouraging.
1. The convention could disband without accomplishing anything, amid lots of recriminations. We'd fall back on the current Constitution, but in many people's minds it would now have even less legitimacy. They would believe they were cheated out of a new Constitution, the same way they believe they were cheated out of an SC majority.
2. The convention could declare that it's not bound by silly antiquated stuff like supermajority requirements, approval by state governments, the existing structure for holding elections, and most especially the current constitution. They'd hold their own plebiscite under their own voting rules doing their own counting, declare the results binding and the new constitution immediately in effect, and name one of their own as president or prime minister or maximum leader or whatever. Instant crisis.
Regarding that last, is that a reference to how the 1787 Constitution was created? Turnabout's fair play.
Yeah, a Constitutional Convention would be a disaster for liberty. No way we could pass a constitution now that defends liberty anywhere near as well as the current one does (even after a couple of centuries of the Supreme Court chipping away at it.)
Really? When was the last time someone went to jail for offending someone or talking shit about a politician?
The only one on this forum who might have anything to worry about is our resident Canadian troll. Everyone else is fine.
I can think of one guy from a Louden County VA school board meeting from a few months ago.
That's quite the pattern.
You didn't ask for a pattern. You asked for an example.
I looked that up and nobody was arrested for speech or for offending anyone. More like for being disruptive, belligerent and violent.
So I'm sorry but I don't recognize your example.
Except it was his speech that was deemed disruptive and the cause of his arrest you leftist twat.
He was arrested for his actions, not his words.
The fact that you have to call me names tells me that you've got no reasoned argument and that you must attack people to make your point.
If that's the case, just let me know. I'll put you on mute so I never have to read such childish prattle again.
^ Excuses "R" us.
His words were the action. literally all he did was speak.
From what I read he was arrested for Disorderly Conduct for physically threatening someone and immediately released. Yet you guys make it sound like he peacefully and respectfully addressed the school board and was arrested because they didn't like what he had to say.
Then again we're talking about people who insist 1/6 was nothing but peaceful tourists. So it's not like an honest conversation is going to be had.
His daughter was raped and the school board not only lied but covered it up to protect a trans rapist and avoid embarrassment during pride month. You’re a lot of things Sarcasmic, but being naïve isn’t one of them. You know full well why he was arrested and why the NSBA and White House colluded to have the DOJ sic the FBI on the anti CRT parents. You’ve been known to make cogent arguments, this is not one of those times.
There's video of the encounter. He didn't assault anyone, he refused to relinquish the floor when people told him to shut up.
I wouldn't expect you to take the police report at its word verbatim, typically.
This is very much like a case of someone being charged with resisting arrest when he wouldn't stay still on the ground while the officers kicked him repeatedly.
Know what? Never mind. I'm muting you now. Calling me a leftist means you're dishonest, braindead, or trying to impress the folks I've already got on mute.
Regardless a conversation with you is pointless since you're just going to call me names like a child.
So pat yourself on the back buddy, you just joined your friends.
No, it means he got your number.
holy shit, you are a giant baby.
and a leftist twat.
You asked for an example, dumbass.
There _was_ the whole "wood chipper" episode. Nobody went to jail, but it could have ended up that way:
https://reason.com/2015/06/19/government-stifles-speech/
"So we decided, against the government's request but well within our legal rights, to choose Option 3: notify and share the full subpoena with the six targeted commenters so that they would have a chance to assert their First Amendment rights to anonymity and defend themselves legally against the order."
Wait, is there a First Amendment right to anonymity? I don't think that exists, but I'm not a lawyer or ConLaw professor.
Can anyone with knowledge help?
A quick search says yes, with limitations:
"Anonymous Speech"
https://mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/32/anonymous-speech
That was a thin-skinned judge abusing their power, not a trend of censorship.
US Attorney, and we've somehow migrated from example to pattern to trend - what warp factor are these goal posts moving at now?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/iowa-man-16-years-lgbt-flag/
Iowa man sentenced to 16 years due to previous convictions + hate crime compounding. But he had to be convicted first, which was a 5 year sentence. Which is still to high. For what? Stealing a flag?
Well, whether or not it's being "held up", it is the last bastion of free speech.
Yes, the recent moves into "guiding" social media censorship is very disturbing and must be fought. But we are still far better than anyplace else as far as I can see. By and large, you can still say or publish what you want (if not necessarily through the platform you want) without fear of legal repercussions.
"The First Amendment shields Americans from censorship"
Exactly. And that's the problem.
Once again I recommend Is the First Amendment too broad? The case for regulating hate speech in America by Reason contributor Noah Berlatsky. Did you know racist speech literally causes direct physical harm (high blood pressure) to Black bodies? You would if you read Berlatsky's piece.
#LibertariansForSpeechRestrictions
#BlackBloodPressureMatters
Berlatsky causes me physical harm. I guess there's no choice but to institute racially egalitarianistic segregation for the good of our nation.
I read the article, because I thought you were being hyperbolic. The comparison of the trauma of a man exposing him to a woman was absolutely priceless.
Are you aware that whenever Dr. King gave a 'free' speech it caused direct physical harm to democrats who practiced Jim Crow? Ditto for the Declaration of Independence and the British. '....You are everything we have come to expect from Libertarians....' (to coin a phrase from Men in Black).
That's a parody account.
The best parody account here, for sure.
Yep. Last bastion of free speech; Sloppy Joe currently is apologizing to the EU for not curtailing it harder over here.
But c'mon man, he's tried! Whether it's looking to directly control permitted information on the internet, reclassify words entirely or just take away your right to choose things, Biden has been 100% aligned with Dem totalitarians from day 1.
Biden approved speech is still allowed.
Fuck Joe Biden
He only likes little girls to say that.
Let's go Brandon!
Dr Jill may have the will when creepy Joe takes a blue pill. She gets a thrill when his dill isn’t still and eventually will inside of her spill. They are over the hill so it takes them some skill more than run of the mill to foot this tall bill. If they’re too chill or casually still the effect will be nil and the mood they will kill. Turns out he’s a shill with a member so lil that she instead banged the Clinton named Bill.
The thought of it makes me ill.
Go see Dr Phil
I'd rather skydive into a landfill.
If that were true they'd be coming to get you right now.
it is very important to speak freely everywhere where you want or against someone. in India, there are huge penalties and pressure of politicians in this case. a man can stop to speak someone against himself if he is a powerful politician in India. The USA is a very good country in this regard. US People & Media can speak freely against politicians or their ruler officers because the law allows them to speak or to do this.
thanks to the US Courts and Judges
behind This Tik Tok has a special feature named Tiktok attractiveness scale and it is all about human beauty scale on the TikTok app.
Can you believe the nerve of these bots?
But "a man can stop to speak someone against himself" indicates that it is truly an Indian bot.
Now, go ahead and solve for what moderation policies social media platforms adopt when facing foreign governments demanding that they censor.
The First Amendment doesn't shield Americans from censorship if you sit back and pretend that censorship mandated by foreign governments is the free editorial decision of private actors.
There is no problem with social media censorship since the arrival of TRUTH Social. Trump solved the problem for us.
Except for COINTELPRO blacklisting tactics! Some Americans have always been living under totalitarian rule right here in the USA! Not for any lawbreaking but punished for perfectly legal First Amendment activity.
Governments don’t have to deny the rights of everyone, only hand picked citizens. Congress outlawed COINTELPRO tactics in the 1970’s by Senator Frank Church.
The U.S. Supreme simply doesn’t seem to understand how evil COINTELPRO is. It robs it’s innocent victims of Article III “legal standing” in court, so when no other agency will protect them - even the crime victims can’t seek relief in the Judicial Branch court system. The goal is NOT arrest or indictment, the goal is lifetime punishment in order to silence perfectly legal First Amendment activity. The USA is only different on scale, we do it also.
Tell me more about the lung flutes.
That free speech is explicitly protected without caveat in the US Constitution is one of the values meant by "American Exceptionalism", but the cultural support for it is thinning, especially in younger people, and on the Left in general, now that they have a lock on most media and intellectual institutions.
As Ben Franklin said, the Founders gave us a Republic, if we can keep it. The barbarians are at the gates and have allies inside the walls.
Quislings and faucis are reichstaging as we speak.
Fascism can’t withstand the exposure of free speech.
We just watched the President get canceled, erased, deplatformed and banned to obstruct him from using modern social media to address the nation.
Free speech is an inalienable right with limitations on inciting violence.
Advocating abortion is inciting violence.
Saying that a fetus is not a person and therefore doesn’t deserve the right to life is like anyone saying that you are not a person, don’t deserve the right to life and that anyone should be free to kill you if they desire to. That’s inciting violence.
We have inalienable rights so the government can’t politically decide who doesn’t get them.
When DNA fingerprinting science defines who is a person that’s inalienable reality.
When government decides who is a person that’s just politics.
That's a typical fringeland screed from you on abortion.
Now tell us about how the Holocaust didn't happen.
Yes, the resident holocaust denier. Among the first mutes.
I wonder if he realizes that in any degree of real censorship and he'd be behind bars?
If he traveled to Germany and opened his yap, he'd be looking for legal help.
SPRINGTIME FOR MISEK!
Thank you, Dr. Bronner.
None of you has ever refuted anything I’ve said.
Do you deny it? Provide the link to cite and describe.
You’ve been challenged to time and again and from you, crickets.
"None of you has ever refuted anything I’ve said..."
You're full of shit.
There's no way to "refute" fantasies you dream up and when you've presented "facts" they've been jammed back in your face instantly.
Fuck off and die, scumbag Nazi.
You’re pathetic.
I’ve presented statements as facts and none of you have refuted them.
You can’t because the facts I’ve presented are irrefutable.
You’ve been weighed, measured and found to be feebly lacking.
"You’re pathetic.
I’ve presented statements as facts and none of you have refuted them."
You've been handed your hat regarding your claims of "facts" more often than the press claims drug-laced candy for the kids on Halloween.
And you continue to claim you, what, haven't read the de-bunkings? That you're too stupid to understand them? You're simply a fucking scumbag of a Nazi anti-semite, unwilling to accept what are real facts?
Regardless, your shining "proof" that the Brits didn't find anyone bragging about mass murder in their intel intercepts says far more about your pathetic level of IQ and your anti-Semitic assholery than it does about anything else.
Fuck off and die, nazi scumbag.
Hahaha.
You can’t cite a link to your claim because you’re lying. None of you fuckwits have refuted anything I’ve said.
Your delusion is based on lies. If you ever refute what I say, you’ll be able to link to it.
Until that cold day in hell, fuck off and go away you simple minded retard.
You've been handed your hat regarding your claims of "facts" more often than the press claims drug-laced candy for the kids on Halloween.
And you continue to claim you, what, haven't read the de-bunkings? That you're too stupid to understand them? You're simply a fucking scumbag of a Nazi anti-semite, unwilling to accept what are real facts?
Regardless, your shining "proof" that the Brits didn't find anyone bragging about mass murder in their intel intercepts says far more about your pathetic level of IQ and your anti-Semitic assholery than it does about anything else.
Fuck off and die, nazi scumbag.
Once again you lie by omission.
The enigma code intercepts clearly demonstrated that Germans were internally discussing prison camp deaths and transfers that contradict the numbers required to support the holocaust lie.
You are performing the feeble mental gymnastics required to believe they were deceptive discussing prison camp information while being truthful about their military plans in their most coded communications.
Feeble mental gymnastics is like the somersault tryouts for the special olympics.
Sevo the retarded being eliminated in the first round. His participation ribbon taken for bad sportsmanship.
Poor angry pumpkin.
Any “official” forensic analysis at any alleged site of the holocaust, of which there are only a few, was conducted when and where it is illegal to share evidence that demonstrates the holocaust is a lie.
It is still illegal in every nation where it allegedly occurred to demonstrate that bullshit lie perpetrated by Jews for sympathy and shekels to steal Palestine.
You mean that you don't know how to refute "fantasies"? Yeah, I can see that you're a great debater.
So clones and identical twins aren't people? Good for organ harvesting then.
They have different DNA from the mother which will get them out of the womb alive, then you can argue that they aren’t individuals.
Fill your boots fuckwit.
'"In the wrong hands the internet can be used to spread terrorist and other illegal or harmful content, undermine civil discourse, and abuse or bully other people."'
So can the postal service.
Don't forget the telephone. And talking to someone face-to-face. And sending messages in a bottle. And, especially, books.
We need to ban all of these things because they might be used to share dangerous information.
Or suggestive cloud formations.
+
And also don't forget those secret coded messages hidden in fortune cookies.
I couldn’t decode the one that said “Help! I’m being held prisoner in a Chinese cookie factory!” So I threw it away.
I would add Little Orphan Annie decoder rings.
Ralphie: [after cracking a secret code, reading it] Be sure to drink your Ovaltine. Ovaltine?! A crummy commercial?! Son of a bitch!
The us has always stood alone as a haven for free speech, and if you're just discovering that, I'd ask for any money back you spent on education.
People who grow up here don't appreciate it. They don't realize that in the rest of the world you can be arrested for offending people or talking smack about the government. I see people whine and cry about government "guidance," but that's nothing. Nobody is being arrested or jailed. Americans don't know how good they've got it.
People will be quick to point out passages in European or Canadian constitutions about freedom of expression, but 100% of them have caveats, riders and sub-passages which all state "unless the government has a compelling reason to take your freedoms away".
I've been watching a lot of news out of Canada lately and they have constitutional rights on inter-provincial travel... "until you don't". I feel for the Canadians and how draconian their COVID policies are, but they're realizing very quickly that they never had any rights to begin with. "Rights... until you don't" aren't rights. They're privileges.
Naked Lunch
http://library.lol/fiction/D941FFC1023597580041D10E8023953A
"People will be quick to point out passages in European or Canadian constitutions about freedom of expression, but 100% of them have caveats, riders and sub-passages which all state "unless the government has a compelling reason to take your freedoms away"..."
Or, per Tony:
'I support the first amendment but...'
No, you don't.
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts...
Tony would have his drawers full.
Positive rights; what the government giveth, the government taketh away.
WHAT did you just say about the King of Thailand?!
"The us has always stood alone as a haven for free speech"
Lady Chatterley's Lover
http://library.lol/fiction/7D1B4BE6362D31DD34F7C05ACC981D14
I'm not sure what your point here is. If I were to guess, it seems you're saying "someone not in the US wrote something risque and rude, so freedom of speech abounds. Which misses the point by a country mile.
The US has an explicit and absolute passage in its founding documents. No other country on the planet has that.
"The US has an explicit and absolute passage in its founding documents."
It made no difference. The book was banned for decades. The ban was finally lifted about the same time in Canada and the UK, neither country having such language in their founding documents.
Oh, look! trueman can pick cherries!
How............
pathetic.
Yes, there have been successful attempts at limiting speech, but most often they get corrected.
Not so in other countries and we all know that even if you're too ill-informed to understand.
Arguing that are explicit document gets violated doesn't change the fact that the document is explicit. Australia and the UK are currently finding out what happens when there is no explicit language, and your speech or ideas don't carry a constituency.
"Arguing that are explicit document gets violated doesn't change the fact that the document is explicit."
It makes little difference. Explicit or not, it's up to unelected politicians in black robes to interpret it.
And it has been interpreted pretty much as written.
1A is absolute. Even you waffle it is gone
In May 1994, Abu-Jamal was engaged by National Public Radio's All Things Considered program to deliver a series of monthly three-minute commentaries on crime and punishment. The broadcast plans and commercial arrangement were canceled following condemnations from, among others, the Fraternal Order of Police and Senate Minority Leader Bob Dole. Abu-Jamal sued NPR for not airing his work, but a federal judge dismissed the suit.
The constitution provides freedom of speech, not the freedom
from consequence of ones speech. For example the first amendment protects someone's right to be an asshole, as long as it is verbal, but does not protect an individual from being shunned by others because they are an asshole.
trueman is not only easily confused, but also addicted to sophistry; you see what results.
Or being sued for slander or libel. If you knowingly or recklessly disregard the truth and cause damage to another party, you have to pay the consequences for that.
"For example the first amendment protects someone's right to be an asshole"
When did you last read the first amendment?
The copy's right here on my desk. When's the last time you tried posting honestly, protected asshole?
Libertarianism 101: The only crime against liberty in your example there is that there is a National Public Radio funded by tax dollars.
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Was a pretty avid listener for about 30 years, until about 2015; even as astute as they are, they could not disguise their bias.
If only their were a haven for bias.
If only you had a brain-cell.
Hey, was that a STRAW MAN argument?!
"The only crime against liberty in your example "
So much for this 'haven' business.
So much for any suggestion of an IQ approaching room temperature.
the Fraternal Order of Police and Senate Minority Leader Bob Dole. Abu-Jamal sued NPR for not airing his work, but a federal judge dismissed the suit.
so wait, Youtube DOES have to carry and monetize a creator, and if they don't, now it's a first amendment issue?
What happened to muh corporashuns?
More to the point what happened to free speech? Has the US always been a haven for free speech or not? You seem confused.
The backlash that took place following the incident hasn’t and will never be matched. Janet was forced to go on an apology tour and nearly half a million complaints were sent to the FCC. A class-action lawsuit was filed against Janet and Justin. All involved parties in the whole debacle were forced to pay massive fines.
Nobody has claimed that the US is perfect; right, books have been banned, speakers have been prevented from presenting on college campuses....wait, is that the sort of censorship you mean?
The absurd claim being made is that the US is a haven for free speech. I'm not certain if you agree or disagree.
The absurd claim that it is otherwise is made by dishonest pieces of shit like trueman.
Im on the fence on this one. Is pulling out your junk considered speech?
Only if you are a butt hurt proglodyte.
Critical speech = domestic terrorism nowadays
$450k U.S. taxpayer transfer per illegal with kidz, where’s Shika when you need her.
Let’s go Brandon!!!
The 450k is a true open borders libertarian moment.
A cartoon shows South American youths explaining to the desk sergeant "Honest, we would never have beaten up that old guy if we hadn't mistaken him for a politician." Already victims are posting rewards for reprisals in response to the initiation of force. Americans at least have the alternative option of voting libertarian.
Sadly young adults today are mostly against free speech. They have been indoctrinated or brainwashed (whatever you prefer to call it), by our school systems. Unfortunately for them they will find out all too soon someone will disagree with what they have to say and they WILL BE SILENCED by those they once supported. Hard to blame those kids when their parents and grandparents let it happen by being apathetic and letting far left socialist educate their kids and get to this point. Right now these young adults remind me of the brainwashed kids in the Soviet Union that denounced their parents only to find themselves in Soviet orphanages. These kids have been taught to hate their own parents and grandparents and they do. So sad.
The question is how did our universities turn into a communist brainwashing centers? One of the reasons is the traditional hostility of intellectuals toward capitalism. You can see that in the article "Intellectuals and Capitalism" by Robert Nozick Jr. Another reason are public sector unions. Unions have always been leftist organizations and unionizing university professors didn't help. The third reason is the flood of "humanities" or "liberal arts" degrees which prepare students to become bartenders, straddled with a quarter mil debt. Colleges stopped to be places of learning, they became the place of partying and binge drinking. A population of 18 years old who left parental control but are incapable of critical thinking and don't really know history is an ideal audience for the communist brainwashers. Even Stalin was brainwashed as a youth.
OK, but you don't use the government to cure problems caused by the government.
Simply, you really ought to STFU until you learn to consider the issues.
Using expletives as an argument? You're brilliant! That is a genuine Antifa style of debate. For your information, this corrupt form of government was created by the deficiencies in our constitution and the legal doctrine of "legal person". And no, legal framework isn't government. There are slight differences among those two. Thus endeth the lesson for today.
Fuck off and die, asshole; you have now proven yourself to be unworthy of anything beyond that.
We have Antifa member among us!
Fuck off and die, asshole.
The US is definitely not a haven for free speech, at least not on campuses or in journalism. What do you think the whole "woke cancel culture" movement is all about? Stifling speech. One false word and you're canceled, fired and ruined. These woke fanatics take no prisoners -- they just summarily execute them without the bother of a trial.
Universities should be left to the market forces. Not a cent of subsidies by tax payers. That would winnow out various "diversity administrators", liberal arts and humanities studies as well as the leftist professors who organize "student activism". On some level, it's strange that ever more impoverished tax payers are subsidizing obscenely rich institutions like Harvard, Stanford and Yale.
This protection has already failed. My company mandated using "personal pronouns". We have a lady, with the mandatory pink hear, who insists she being called a "he". I can lose my job and become unemployable if I "misgender" her. That's not free speech. Even if I am recorded saying something un-woke, I can have a bunch of woke idiots from the company protesting my behavior. The company would simply fire me, without much ado. There is no more free speech in the USA. Not for quite some time. USA might not formalize censorship the way UK, Canada and Australia did, but that doesn't mean that the censorship is not there.
We need a constitutional amendment saying that corporations are not people and and therefore are not afforded the bill of rights protection. Corporations should be absolutely forbidden from dabbling in politics. Corporations are not people and are not bound by the human morality. They are only motivated by profit. Corporations are the most efficient form of organization so far but are not people and do not deserve to be afforded freedom of speech or protection from incriminating themselves or the right to privacy. The institution of legal person must be reformed and it can only be done by a constitutional amendment.
"We need a constitutional amendment saying that corporations are not people and and therefore are not afforded the bill of rights protection..."
You're full of shit. Fuck off and die, asshole.
Another brilliant use of expletives. Let me guess you were not the champion of your local debate club?
Fuck off and die, asshole.
You've reached the level of debate of an Antifa member. I'm sure that they would take you as a full member.
Fuck off and die, asshole.
I don't know if this is satire or serious, but it's certainly dead wrong. Newspapers and radio/TV stations are usually corporations, and if corporations couldn't express opinions, they would not be able to run editorials. Remember what the Citizens United case was actually about: a movie that was critical of Hilary Clinton. The "Corporations are not people" folks wanted to ban it. Thank goodness they lost.
This is what's known to most of us as "stupidity". Someone (supposedly) working for an employer who demands acceptance of certain mandates. We have three alternatives:
1) It's true. In which case, go find an employer more to your liking.
2) It's bullshit; fuck off and die.
3) Regardless, your 'solution' says you're really not smart enough to vote; please don't at the next election available to you.
I am dead serious. The rights should be regulated by the law. And you are conflating the opinion of people with the opinion of corporations. Rachel Maddow, Tucker Carlson, Ben Shapiro and Don Lemon have every right to express their opinion. However, firing someone for clashing with "the company values" should not be legal. Company should not be allowed to take a political stance as a company. And Corporations are not people. Corporations are organizations. That doesn't have anything to do with movies. Movies are made by the people who do have the right to express the political opinion. Corporations exist for the sole purpose of earning money for their share holders. They are not bound by the common moral, they cannot be put in jail, they cannot be sentenced to community service. Allowing engaging in politics to corporations breeds corruption and our politicians are beholden to the corporations, not to their voters.
Corporations are property that, for convenience, are treated as people for legal reasons (carrying out transactions, owning other property, etc). The rights of a corporation are actually the rights of the shareholders to use their property, and restrictions on the use of that property are restrictions on *them*.
Suppose we had a law that said "cell phones may not transmit messages supporting political candidates." Obviously cell phones are not people and have no rights to violate, so this isn't censorship by your logic. But of course, it is -- it's censorship of the cell phone owners, and what you want is censorship of shareholders.
Corporations are property, that is correct. However, according to the legal person doctrine, corporations are also legal persons which can be sued and have all the rights afforded by the bill of rights. However, because of the nature of the corporations, they exist only to make money and are not bound by the common morality and customs, having corporations give political donations and financing elections is a practice that generates corruption. Not only that, the official political stance of a corporation opens the possibility of political pressure on the employees. Cancel culture would not be possible if the corporations were not allowed to take a political stance. Twitter, Google and New York Times are acting as political operatives on behalf on one political party. If you don't find that disturbing, I cannot help you. However, the right to do so was handed to them by the political doctrine of legal person. I have nothing against Jack Dorsey, Larry Page or Michelle Goldberg voicing their political opinion. However, using the corporations they work for as a tool to enforce their political opinion makes the rest of us less equal than them. Obviously, Google can do much more to promote its political ideas than I can do to promote mine. Unfortunately, Google isn't human and shouldn't have political ideas. Allowing that to continue will eventually destroy democracy. Corporations are not democracies, they are hierarchies.
"...having corporations give political donations and financing elections is a practice that generates corruption..."
The NYT is owned by a corporation; are they to be prohibited from publishing all political opinions?
NYT is a corporation. NYT should be prohibited from publishing political opinions. Its journalists should do that freely. NYT would be prohibited from having a political bias. Its journalists would not.
Articles are published in NYT by the real people. Michelle Goldberg is welcome to have political attitude and chose political sides. NYT is not. That would mean no further firings because of the political "misalignment". In other words, pressure by NYT on Bari Weiss to resign because of her political attitudes would be illegal. You are conflating NYT as a corporation and its reporters who are real people. However, when speaking of NYT, Bari Weiss was "cancelled" by the corporation, not by her colleagues.
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Your logic is sound.
The notion that corporations resulting from free enterprise should have the same rights as persons originates from a time when populations were so low and resources so plentiful that public health and welfare weren’t even a consideration.
That and everyone had opinions and they weren’t being deplatformed, banned, censored and erased for sharing them as we are today.
Corporations shouldn’t coerce people any more than people should.
You.
Are.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
The broad concept of online (and other) "harm" that is leading to the erosion of free speech is a direct consequence of the expanding notion of what constitutes "mental health" (or its absence). If hurt feelings, or experiencing some emotional tension in your life, are equated to physical injury, then people will want to prohibit actions (largely meaning speech) which cause those things. We need to reestablish the "sticks and stones" principle, and reduce the power of psychologists, psychiatrists, etc. to promote their wildly expansive notion of "health".
"The broad concept of online (and other) "harm" that is leading to the erosion of free speech is a direct consequence of the expanding notion of what constitutes "mental health" (or its absence)..."
I'd go further:
It is a consequence of the affirmation, by many holding some degree of "power" over our lives, that emotions = facts.
This would be oh, so, empathetic government-school teachers and, to be honest, the helicopter parents who support the notion that you cannot correct a child if it makes them uncomfortable.
It is the absolute abrogation of the principles founding the US, it lead to the swap-critters' campaign against Trump (HE OFFENDED PEOPLE!!!) and delivered us into what we are now seeing.
The question exists whether there is a push-back sufficient to check that progression.
The nascent revolts against vax mandates, and school-board overreach gives some hope, but we've got lefty shits like sarc, jeff and the lot claiming 'both sides'!
Living in SF, there's less to drive optimism.
It's teaching the nonsense that "words are violence" or worse, that "silence is violence". Violence is violence. Democracy needs a free and open discussion for the people to reach the best decisions. Shutting down dissent because it's not "approved" or might "trigger someone" is a totalitarian move.
Kids used to be taught to be more resilient, and not to be offended by every little thing. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me" was taught to every school kid. "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" was another common expression not that long ago.
There is a Star Trek episode (from the 1960s) where Abraham Lincoln appears on the Enterprise and calls Lt. Uhura a "charming Negress", then apologizes if his words may have offended her, saying people viewed others as inferior in his time due to the color of their skin. Uhura responds by saying "we've learned not to be offended by words in our time".
The broad concepts of online harm and redefinition of mental health are just tools for silencing different opinion. When I was a kid, I heard an old proverb: "sticks and stones can break my bones but words can't hurt me". Words are not violence. That applies even to the F-word, used by some ignorant people to strengthen their "arguments". The "redefinition" in question is just a tool for silencing opponents. The same applies to the redefinition of racism and the invented notions like "green energy".
Not for long.
Here's a list of anti-government statements most of which could soon be banned regardless of how embarrassingly true.
1. Insider trading is common in the US Congress. Behind closed doors it's considered a perk.
2. Voter fraud happens in every election. What we don't know is how much and whether or not it has effected a close election.
3. Campaign finance violations are common in the US Congress as are embezzlement, influence peddling, and money laundering.
4. There is an ironclad code of silence in Congress much the same as with organized crime and the drug gangs.
That's probably enough to be me banned plenty of places already.
The ONLY way to keep inalienable rights is to stand up for and protect them all. Not merely the ones that suit your selfish interests today.
Remember this on November 11.
I will close my nose and vote GOP on Tuesday. Let's not kid ourselves, GOP is equally to blame for the loss of freedom as the dems. The monstrosity called "The Patriot Act" was signed into the law by the GOP president. I think we have already irreparably lost our freedom. Welcome to the brave new world. I hope that the socialist idiots will user us into a deep economic crisis which will give rise to free market and freedom loving people and finally defeat the idiots like Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schummer and their acolytes.
Oh yeah.
It’s not left vs right, it’s right vs wrong.
The wrong use lies and secrecy to achieve and maintain power and influence.
"I will close my nose and vote GOP on Tuesday. Let's not kid ourselves, GOP is equally to blame for the loss of freedom as the dems."
You.
Are.
Full
Of.
Shit.
You know who else passed legislation in a certain country which went on to “serve as a terrible inspiration for authoritarian copycats around the world?”