Texas Gov. Greg Abbott Bans Private Businesses From Mandating Vaccines for Workers
Plus: A dangerous misunderstanding about what caused America's opioid overdose epidemic, a look at this year's Nobel Prize winners, and more...

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott issued an executive order on Monday banning any entity in the state—including private businesses—from requiring that workers or customers show proof of having been vaccinated against COVID-19.
Abbott, a Republican, said in a statement that the readily available and safe vaccines were "our best defense against the virus" but added that vaccinations should "always remain voluntary and never forced." He also asked the state legislature to codify the ban on vaccine mandates into state law.
I issued an Executive Order prohibiting vaccine mandates by ANY entity in Texas.
I also added the issue to the Special Session agenda.
The COVID-19 vaccine is safe, effective, & our best defense against the virus, but should always remain voluntary & never forced. pic.twitter.com/8hHHLyebCk
— Greg Abbott (@GregAbbott_TX) October 11, 2021
As The Texas Tribune notes, the new ban on vaccine mandates is a significant (and disappointing) reversal for Abbott, who had previously banned government-run entities like school districts from mandating vaccines but had taken a hands-off approach with businesses. "Private businesses don't need government running their business," an Abbott spokesperson told the Tribune in August.
Apparently, Abbott now thinks they do. By sticking his nose into the affairs of private businesses, Abbott is setting up a potential conflict with some of his state's biggest employers, including Southwest Airlines and American Airlines—both of which are based in Texas and recently told employees to get the shot if they want to keep their jobs. Mandatory vaccination policies should always include carveouts to cover those who have had a previous COVID-19 infection or have religious or medical reasons for not getting jabbed, of course, but those issues are better worked out between employers and employees.
Abbott's new mandate also puts some businesses in a tricky situation where they must choose between disobeying state or federal law. President Joe Biden announced last month that all businesses with more than 100 employees would be required to mandate vaccines for their workers (or conduct weekly tests), with the Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) enforcing the mandate.
Biden's mandate continues to be a massive overreach of executive authority. Abbott's ban on private mandates is little different. Neither is probably all that enforceable, though every business owner in Texas will rightfully fear being held up and punished by one side or the other as an example of what happens to those who refuse to comply.
Vaccines remain by far the best strategy for saving lives and ending the pandemic. It makes sense that businesses would want their employees to be vaccinated. Those who refuse the shot should be free to do so, but they do not have a right to any particular job. None of those decisions should require the coercive efforts of state or federal officials.
This is just as much a slap in the face to business freedom as Biden's intended OSHA mandate.
— Walter Olson (@walterolson) October 11, 2021
FREE MINDS
The new Hulu series Dopesick, adapted from a 2018 book of the same title, is promoting a misleading narrative about America's overdose epidemic that blames doctors for overprescribing pain meds, writes Jeffrey A. Singer, a medical doctor and senior fellow at the Cato Institute. That misguided understanding of the crisis led state and federal policy makers to implement policies intended to reduce opioid prescribing.
Then, this happened:
Prescriptions of opioids per 100 persons have dropped nearly 50 percent since 2012. Almost simultaneously the overdose rate has surged from roughly 40,000 in 2012 to 93,000 in 2020. Meanwhile, pain patients suffer from pain and mental anguish—especially veterans—as doctors abruptly taper or deny opioids to treat their pain.
Purdue Pharma—the maker of OxyContin, and the villain in the book and Hulu series—may have been untruthful with doctors or overly aggressive in marketing, Singer says. But that's quite unrelated to the more immediate question of how to help people suffering from chronic pain or opioid addiction. For them, prohibition is clearly not working. (Disclosure: Singer is a financial supporter of Reason Foundation, the nonprofit that publishes this website.)
FREE MARKETS
Alex Tabarrok writes that the trio of economists who won the Nobel Prize on Monday—David Card, Joshua Angrist, and Guido Imbens—helped usher in a "credibility revolution" with their simple, empirical experiments. Most famously, Card co-authored a 1994 study that contrasted minimum wages in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, while Angrist co-authored a study that found children born in the first quarter of the year get marginally less education:
The importance of Card and Krueger (1994) was not the result (which continue to be debated) but that Card and Krueger revealed to economists that there were natural experiments with plausible treatment and control groups all around us, if only we had the creativity to see them. The last thirty years of empirical economics has been the result of economists opening their eyes to the natural experiments all around them.
QUICK HITS
• The House of Representatives could vote Tuesday to raise the debt limit until December, preventing the Treasury from defaulting on America's near-record pile of debt. That would clear the way for Congress to…borrow even more (sigh).
• Banks are up in arms about the Biden administration's plans to track deposits and withdrawals of over $600.
• New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy is threatening to blow up New York City's congestion pricing plan that would hike tolls in midtown and lower Manhattan.
• This man was sentenced to 24 years in prison for his role in a robbery that never happened and the cops planned:
Joshua Boyer was hoping to find a way to afford rehab when an undercover agent recruited him to rob a fake stash house. He was sentenced to 24 years for his role in the imaginary plot. "Twenty-four years for a conversation," he said. https://t.co/gmWAeFJeXN
— The New Yorker (@NewYorker) October 11, 2021
• Jon Gruden resigned as head coach of the NFL's Las Vegas Raiders after emails containing homophobic and misogynistic language were made public by The New York Times.
• A Maryland county where exactly one child has died of COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemic will expand its mask mandate to cover children as young as two.
• "There is more than one way to burn a book…"
"A school board for French-speaking Catholic schools in Ontario, Canada held a 'flame purification' ceremony to get rid of books deemed offensive by Aboriginal knowledge keepers. If that sounds a lot like book burning that's because it's book burning." https://t.co/UpPOJRmONG
— Timothy Sandefur (@TimothySandefur) October 10, 2021
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Texas Gov. Greg Abbott issued an executive order on Monday banning any entity in the state—including private businesses—from requiring that workers or customers show proof of having been vaccinated against COVID-19.
Customers can still signal with masks, though. Right?
What amazes me is that ENB, ostensibly a libertarian oriented writer, has a problem with the TX governor acting to preserve our economic freedom, and autonomy.
What kind of libertarian is she?
Ooops....meant to say Birdbrain Boehm, but regardless, the question stands. It ain't like the birdbrain is a libertarian, either.
If I were a private business owner, Texas Government Almighty deciding who I may or may not fire... Is now PROTECTING my rights, by taking over my business decisions? WTF, where does this inverted, perverted logic come from?
THIS is why sensible Republicans are now starting to say, vote for moderate Democrats! Trumpistas are RUINING the "R" Party!
https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-officials-are-urging-republican-voters-back-democrats-in-2022-2021-10
THIS is why sensible Republicans are now starting to say, vote for moderate Democrats! Trumpistas are RUINING the “R” Party!
LOL at the stupid take promoted here:
Together, Taylor and Whitman asked that the GOP's base consider supporting Democrats so "conservative pragmatists" could retake control of the party.
AKA, Bush-era Republicans who caved at every conflict in the culture war over the last 30 years, and are still ass-mad that Trump snatched the party out of their hands the same way the Democrats have been kicking their asses--by sauntering in and taking it over their milquetoast objections.
These has-beens and literally whos are clearly sweating at Biden's plummeting poll numbers, especially with independents, and are desperate to keep their team in charge.
What could these sad sacks possibly offer the GOP base, who hate their quisling guts now, that could motivate them to vote for Democrats to supposedly "teach" the party a lesson and put the Bushes back in charge?
The Bushes at least believed in democracy and peaceful transfers of power. There were no trumpanzees gone apeshit, looking to replace democracy with mobocracy, under the Bushes.
"The Bushes at least believed in democracy and peaceful transfers of power... mobacracy"
Cripes! You're not even pretending to be libertarian any more.
ALL real libertarians suck orange cock, all day, every day! It is known! MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer, Queen of the Echo Chambers, will show us The Way!!!
Versus the deep-blue, old-man cock that Sqrlsy and his fascist pals are guzzling.
Tell us Sqrls, are you left choking on a cloud of dust when Old Balls Biden blows his load? Does he still make you wear a mask when you drop your drawers? Does your ideological whorehouse have a vaccine mandate?
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The Bushes at least believed in democracy and peaceful transfers of power.
Ask the Iraqis and the Taliban about that one.
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Lol. The Bushes Family motto is "Read my Lips No New Taxes". We saw how deep their belief in democracy is.
Please provide us a cite where the Bushes called up armies of lying trumpanzees gone apeshit, rioting to replace democracy with mobocracy? Please?
Oh, and WHEN is Der EX-TrumpfenFuhrer going to take back His Big Lie?
spastic asshole flags!
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Please provide a cite where anyone did, Scheißfresser.
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Are you accusing Sevo of being your sock?
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The previous GOP wasn't good for much, but at least they were still committed to self governance and living somewhat in reality. The current cult is fascist and delusional. And I mean that quite literally.
I'd say implementing a security state to spy on Americans and providing Silicon Valley with VC funding to enable it, and invading countries on flimsy pretexts, was far more fascist than anything the current GOP base ever did, and that includes January 6th.
Said the guy who said criticizing government was blood libel. LOL.
The current cult is fascist
Speaking of fascists:
De Oppresso Liber
January.19.2021 at 12:15 pm
Europe did not heal or move on until they had hung a bunch...
De Oppresso Liber
January.19.2021 at 3:10 pm
I’m not calling for the hanging of Trump supporters, so relax, Francis.
I’m saying that there will not be unity until there has been accountability. People need to pay the piper before we move on.
Haven’t seen DOL in a minute. I’m surprised he showed up just to rip Trump. Must just be fifty centing part time.
More than bush era republicans, open resistance members who have now advocated since 2017 straight ticket Democrats.
The government exists to protect the rights of citizens. Just because rights aren't specific in the Constitution, doesn't mean they are not protected. Have you heard of the 9th and 10th amendments?
I understand the argument of keeping government out of running businesses, but government is here to protect our rights. Blanket ban on vax mandate is possibly too much, but many businesses have gone too far by mandating people get injections when a) their job doesn't reasonably require it and b) they don't reasonably need it.
And well, I forgot to add the whole response to significant federal over reach and trampling of rights in the federal vax mandate, which this helps to combat.
Spastic asshole flag!
Are you really so stupid as to think the government has a right to tell private businesses what it should be doing? And you're arguing THAT is a libertarian argument?
Birdbrain only describes yourself.
Are you really so stupid as to think the government has a right to tell private businesses what it should be doing?
LOL, talk about a self-own from the biggest shitlib shill on this board.
Yeah, he did not get it. I am howling with laughter here. 🙂
I think these idiots have to be missing the point on purpose. It’s not that complicated.
I know, right? Next the government will be telling businesses they can’t discriminate against blacks!
You mean like the government that thinks it has the power to make private businesses require that their employees be vaccinated?
You are right about the pure, principled libertarian argument. But government force already has its hands all over this. I'm OK with another level of government trying to negate some of that.
Having a state government say that businesses can’t do something any-liberty that the federal government is coercing them to do shouldn’t be that hard to understand.
I can think of at least a few situations were vaccination would be a BFEQ. But absent the establishment of those limiting criteria then what Abbott did seems entirely appropriate and tending towards greater individual liberty.
Amazing how the Utilitararians here become such strict "libertarians" when dogma suits their preferred outcomes.
That's exactly how I feel. A while back National Review Online had a piece describing the extent to which the public sector was already interpenetrated with the private one. For one thing, the whole economy is awash in public sector money in the form of public pension funds and the entities responsible for administering said funds may as well be considered government actors. It's a reality in life that sometimes fire has to be fought with fire. Only losers stand on principle.
For one thing, the whole economy is awash in public sector money in the form of public pension funds and the entities responsible for administering said funds may as well be considered government actors.
Where have I seen someone warning about this? Oh yeah, it's from the speech that shitlibs like to reference, but haven't actually read:
What's that from?
Eisenhower's farewell address--- the one where shitlibs miss the forest (government overreach) for the trees (MIC).
Ah, yes, should have guessed.
You defended Biden doing it. So weird. Abbot's order is to prioritize the individual against that federal over reach.
Corporatist?
Libertarians FOR mandates is depressing as hell to see, ain't it?
Yep, you can't "mandate" freedom.
Especially when so many progressives want to man date Biden.
In all fairness, from what I'm hearing at sports events, a lot of his opponents apparently want him to put out on a first man-date. 😉
If someone is wearing a mask, when not required, is it because they are not vaccinated or are they virtual signaling?
Or they think they might be older, or in some other group that thinks they might have low immunity, or might have cancer or some other illness. Don’t judge them unless you know their whole story.
Or they don’t understand anything about filtering systems.
That is not how it works. Pay attention. Masks protect other people, not the person wearing the mask.
I will judge them. It's my right and duty.
No. A mask provides much more protection if the infected person wears it, especially if it is a properly designed and worn mask. BUT it still does provide _some_ protection if someone wears a mask to avoid getting infected.
It’s not a black and white thing.
Based on only one study utilizing perfectly sealed masks. So no.
Another H02 moment brought to you by White Mike.
This is not supported by the science at all. But this is Mike for you. It is especially rich that he pops in with the whole, "Judge not.." schtick when he has been doing this for months. Just a reminder:
https://reason.com/2021/09/09/california-is-set-to-outlaw-unannounced-condom-removal/#comment-9091773
That is Mike insisting that he “would never look to Rolling Stone” for news, after spreading their bogus ivermectin story only days earlier. Consider that: He didn’t apologize. He didn’t even try to ignore his mistake. He brazenly tried to dunk on Rolling Stone to make himself look like an arbiter of truth.
The pathological narcissism required to disrespect the truth and readers so heavily should make him ashamed. It won't though, so I advise others in the thread to avoid engaging with someone that argues in such bad faith.
The only mask that will protect you is a plastic bag
Mike just admitted vaccines don't work, he should be banned.
At the very least...completely demonitized.
i.e they're scared and will believe anything.
Has anybody ever tried to explain how Biden caught a cold virus during the campaign when he was wearing a face condom virtually all the time? I assume the cold virus and the Covid virus know each other. BTW, something like 14% of cold virus are coronaviruses.
not a whole lot different from the thousands of other regulations and directives that mandate things a business cannot do.
The sad thing is that Abbot's action is the only way to combat the highly immoral lab virus vaccine mandates. The game has already devolved into mandates. no one on either side believes a business should be left alone to do what it wants.
I guess Boehm didn't hear about what happened with Southwest last week.
In my opinion the business that had issued these mandates approached GrAbbott and asked for him to issue this order. The had mandated their employees get the vaccine thinking things would go well for them, the employees would see what happened to those from Methodist that refused and just go quietly. They found out that is not the case. Hospitals that mandated are losing staff in droves, and then this weekend with Southwest they are shitting themselves looking for a way to save face and back out of the mandates and GrAbbot just gave it to them. They will him and haw and complain in public but behind the scenes they will be thanking their lucky stars.
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott Protects Private Businesses From Federal Vaccine Mandates
Fixed that for you.
This. It is clearly meant to counteract the federal mandate, and unlike the federal mandate is actually in alignment with individual freedom. ENB is just mad that someone is doing something about a time sensitive issue that the courts refuse to handle.
It's EB, not ENB today.
Criticism still stands. The government force has already been initiated. As the courts won't enforce individual rights in this case, another government saying belay that order is legitimate.
That's what I don't get. It's clear and transparent that these mandates are a response to (or in anticipation of) government action. There might be some businesses that are legitimately saying "I think this is the right course of action", but given the sheer number of resignations and amount of outrage involved, it definitely does not seem to be a willing act.
You can't call it "government interference" when the government is already interfering. This is like expelling a kid because he punched back at the school bully.
Where did the kids score on the intersectional oppression scale compared to the bully?
Yes you can call it government interference, since it goes overboard with countering the OSHA mandate (which hasn’t happened yet, by the way).
Yes you can call it government interference
Actually, you can't. Texas is a right to work state. Employers are still free to request all employees to get vaccinated and free to terminate all employees that refuse. Exactly what constraint is Abbott placing upon employers?
It goes beyond counteracting. Counteracting would be a state-wide order that says private business can decide for themselves whether they want to require masks or vaccination of their employees or customers.
And that is not in alignment with freedom. (And ENB is not writing the morning roundups this week.)
How is it not? I guess freedom of choice is....not freedom according to you?
But being told exactly what you can and cannot do is?
I guess freedom of choice is….not freedom according to you?
If it hurts your side, it is.
Do individuals own and invest in private business or not? Are all private businesses owned by robots or space aliens or something?
What the hell does this even mean? Your arguments might have some validity if the federal government wasn't dolling out our tax dollars to private businesses and threatening them into compliance, completely skewing incentives and generally fucking up the economy. Until they stop, the state government stepping in and playing interference is just fine by me.
Mike things freedom stops at the corporation.
In this Mike encapsulates the 'thinking' of Reason and it's writers.
Counteracting would be a state-wide order that says private business can decide for themselves whether they want to require
masks or vaccinationthe proper skin color or sexual orientation of their employees or customers.Now do every other mandate on businesses that disallow them from making their own decisions about something LOL.
What a joke you are.
Counteracting would be a state-wide order that says private business can decide for themselves whether they want to require masks or vaccination of their employees or customers.
Feel free at any point to stop equivocating. The mandate from OSHA is evil and in contravention of federal and state law. Businesses have no legitimate interest in forcing employees to vaccinate. It will not prevent employees from contracting or transmitting the virus.
Are you aware that employees fired because of the OSHA mandate would be ineligible to collect unemployment insurance and could potentially lose benefits they would have otherwise received due to being fired for cause? The mandate is a punishment and Abbott is saying, "Not here."
Either you are ignorant shitposter or you are a evil cunt.
"Are you aware that employees fired because of the OSHA mandate would be ineligible to collect unemployment insurance and could potentially lose benefits they would have otherwise received due to being fired for cause?"
Mike, and Chemjeff, et al, just can't get excited about it. Sure, sure, sure, ask them for days about it, and you might get them to say they don't SUPPORT this sort of stuff. But they are just not excited enough about defending THESE liberties to care. But intervene to stop mandates? You better BET you'll see post after post after post arguing about how it is WRONG WRONG WRONG to interfere with private business's decisions.
Why, it's almost as if they really want the mandates after all.
Mike, and Chemjeff, et al, just can’t get excited about it.
Are you kidding? I would guess from the furiousity of his posting that White Mike has a raging boner at the thought of those uppity never-vaxxers getting fired for cause.
And when we go into recession they can blame the anti vax science deniers for not going to work.
They got all the angles covered. 4d chess.
Dee is both.
Can he be both?
Also, if this is meant to counter the OSHA mandate (which hasn’t happened yet, by the way), why doesn’t Abbott’s mandate restrict itself to businesses with 100 or more employees?
“the OSHA mandate (which hasn’t happened yet, by the way)”
Yeah, these companies should have just realized that Biden’s speech on the issue was just to distract from the Afghanistan fuck up. Unfortunately for you and your handlers in the Democrat party, this mandate issue is blowing up in your faces worse than Afghanistan.
Then why not make that the mandate? Something along the lines, Texas will protect any business in Texas by any means or method from the federal Covid-19 mandate. Any federal agent seeking to enforce said mandate shall be arrested for violating Texans civil rights and no local law enforcement or regulatory body shall assist them in any enforcement effort.
Also from the looks of it (I might be wrong), why is Texas a part of OSHA? I am surprised they didn't create their own agency. In Maryland we have MOSH. Which does follow federal guidelines, but controlled by local rule. Been waiting for MOSH to issue a statement whether they will adopt the Covid mandate; I have a feeling they are in wait and see how the winds blow mode.
Because anything less than abbot did allows the fed mandates power.
I kind of get where you are coming from, SaGN. But, the big problem is that Texas can't really apply this "Protection" to large companies. Verizon (as an example) is HQ'd in New Jersey. If they don't follow this mandate, even in Texas, they will likely be served and forced to defend there in New Jersey. How does Texas protect them from that?
If Texas seeks to protect the actual workers, the only thing they can do is force Verizon to make a decision. Either they listen to the federal government or they listen to texas. And in either case, they end up in court, which is where this ultimately needs to be adjudicated.
This, Texas is forcing a court decision here. They are taking away the option for the feds to use a process is the punishment type of enforcement mechanism, by making either option result in the same situation.
Nice. Texas, which used to have a reputation as business friendly, is using private businesses as pawns in a partisan political game.
And what is SleepyJoe doing?
Texas, which used to have a reputation as business friendly, is using private businesses as pawns in a partisan political game.
Notice the eternal complaint of the shitlib that the right is using the left's own tactics against it.
Shorter Mike Laursen: Just sit back, wife, and let him do what he wants. Just, you know, think of England or something.
Notice that Mike, a week ago, was one of those saying "Oh, man, I don't *support* the vaccine mandates, but I can't really get excited about criticizing them". But now dozens of posts criticizing Texas for essentially banning what he doesn't support.
Why, it is almost as if he doesn't care about vaccines at all- he is just here to criticize the Right.
Yeah I don't have a good answer for larger multi-state organizations. Other then they will need to fight the feds on their own, if they choice to do so. But no matter what, they are still being put into a no win situation. And in my case you'd still have a court case to fight over. Mandating nursing homes not check their employees vaccination status maybe as stupid and deadly as Cuomo's mandating the sick be returned to them.
Mandating nursing homes not check their employees vaccination status maybe as stupid and deadly as Cuomo’s mandating the sick be returned to them.
Fuck off and die. They can still check for the actual virus. You know, that thing that if you don't have it, you can't share it?
My wife works in a nursing home. She got vaccinated. And, she got COVID immediately upon being being exposed to it 5 months later. Vaccination is not going to save these people. Not exposing them to the virus is.
How can people be this stupid?
Fuck you too.
Guess I gored your sacred cow, huh? You don't even have the balls to respond to a well founded criticism.
My wife got COVID from me. If I had not tested positive, she would not have been tested and would have gone to work with what she assumed was a sinus headache. Her workplace was not testing, because everyone had been vaccinated.
My lack of vaccination may very well have saved lives. Feel free to refute that.
Sacred Cow? I personally am not vaccinated yet from the Covid, so not one of my sacred cows if that is what you meant. I think you have me confused with someone else but I'll take a shot a clarifying for you (you only get fuck you back if you tell me to fuck off and die, just a rule of mine).
I don't think government should be mandating any of the terms of employment for any employer - full stop. That goes for whether its Biden or Abbott. If a nursing home, which I know nothing about running and neither does Biden or Abbot for that matter, decided it was in their best interest to mandate covid vaccination as term of their employment, they should be free to do so. Same for the inverse, if they think it is in their best interest not to mandate the jab.
I don’t think government should be mandating any of the terms of employment for any employer
This we are in agreement on. As I pointed out elsewhere, Texas is an 'at will' state. Employers can still terminate employees for not being vaccinated. They just can't use it as an excuse to take benefits or torpedo unemployment insurance for nothing but virtue signaling.
Same for the inverse, if they think it is in their best interest not to mandate the jab.
Not mandating: a.k.a. having no policy whatsoever regarding vaccines is actually what current federal and state laws require. Abbott is reinforcing that.
I work in long term care as well. One of my facilities, a SNF with about 55 residents on average got hit by Delta last month. In residents alone they had 30 symptomatic infections - ALL but two were fully vaccinated. Lost five vaccinated, and both unvaccinated. Do not know the total number of staff positives, but no deaths.
This is a common pattern.
Oh, and many homes or whole companies, including my employer have mandated vaccinations for staff, but most still have time to get their first dose in order to meet the scheduled date.
BTW I got my doses back in January & February, so suspect it is simply a matter of time before I show up positive, if not symptomatic.
You don't have a choice about what to adopt. We don't have a Texas Safety department, but we do have the TCEQ. EPA regulations still apply. So you have to follow TCEQ or EPA, whichever is stricter (and it's almost always TCEQ, unless the EPA's rule is brand new, since they don't bother writing regulations weaker than the feds).
So, you are for government interfering in private business’ ability to decide how to run their private business?
Government already is dumbfuck. This at least gives power back to the individual.
He hates that.
I am against government interfering in private businesses which is why I'm for Texas opposing the federal government's intrusive vaccine mandate on private businesses.
You are very clearly for the government interference in private businesses, which is why you're so offended that Texas would dare defy the federal government's assault on individual and private business choice.
The feds want to tell me when I may and may not blow my nose... So the fix is for Texas Government Almighty, instead, to tell me when I may and may not blow my nose?
REAL libertarians might propose... Get ready for a RADICAL idea here... That PRIVATE employers could decide, for themselves, who to hire and fire, and for what reasons! (If they do stupid things, you can out-compete them, by starting a smarter business).
So the fix is for Texas Government Almighty, instead, to tell me when I may and may not blow my nose?
No.
The fix is for Texas to tell EVERYONE that they can't tell you when you may or may not blow your nose.
And YOU get to decide your own affairs, as YOU see fit.
Der JesseBahnFuhrer and other TrumpTurds also want to get in my way... I as a medical consumer (especially with a compromised immune system) would LIKE to go to a medical facility where all of the doctors, nurses, and other medical workers actually BELIEVE in the modern medicine that they are practicing, and dispensing... I do NOT want to catch diseases from workers who believe in witches, wizards, and Lizard People, instead of believing in the germ theory of diseases, and vaccines! But Der JesseBahnFuhrer and other TrumpTurds will NOT allow me these freedoms! I must go and see those who (by their actions) are known quacks, rather than doctors!
I as a medical consumer (especially with a compromised immune system) would LIKE to go to a medical facility where all of the doctors, nurses, and other medical workers actually BELIEVE in the modern medicine that they are practicing, and dispensing
Wasn't an issue last year before the temporary prophylaxis was made available.
Being forced to see quacks instead of doctors has ALWAYS been an issue, wherever it has been tried! I would like to see doctors who believe in modern medicine, and demonstrate that they do! WHY must assholes get in my way?
Being forced to see quacks instead of doctors has ALWAYS been an issue
No one is held a gun to your head and forced you to walk in to the hospital in the months before it became a Holy Coof Juice temple, shit-muncher.
Shitheads like you and Abbott want to take away my choice to go to medical facilities where I know that all of the employees support modern medicine, and won't give my cooties that can easily be cut WAAAAY back, by modern medicine. It is THAT simple, evil power-pig liar!
If you ever come around to wanting to work on your affliction, EvilBahnFuhrer, start here: M. Scott Peck, The People of the Lie, the Hope for Healing Human Evil
https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684848597/reasonmagazinea-20/
People who are evil attack others instead of facing their own failures. Peck demonstrates the havoc these “people of the lie” work in the lives of those around them.
Shitheads like you and Abbott want to take away my choice to go to medical facilities where I know that all of the employees support modern medicine
"I went to these facilities without question last year, but thankfully the Prophet Fauci revealed to us the blessing of the Holy Coof Juice, which is more important than any other vaccine ever invented!"
Everything Is So Terrible And Unfair! (tm)
Poor squirrel. Haha.
Ah, yet another devotee of Science! demanding people believe without proof.
Who is "demanding people believe without proof"? Citation please.
SOME of us would like to be able to attend churches where Government Almighty does NOT force the hiring of atheists, for ministers. SOME of us would like to go to medical facilities where the doctors and other workers demonstrably believe in the medicines that they are dispensing! Why is this such a big deal, that we ask for these freedoms from Government Almighty? Can we get a little RESPECT here?
Just to be clear, I muted SQRLFKR the moment the button appeared and I am never going back. I imagine he is about ready to spray his keyboard imagining the unvaccinated lined up at a soup kitchen.
And I bet you muted your conscience as well, right, Smug-Power-Pig?
I do NOT want to catch diseases from workers who believe in witches, wizards, and Lizard People, instead of believing in the germ theory of diseases, and vaccines!
Notice how the shitlibs and their enablers have fetishized this one "vaccine" into a holy relic; never mind if these same people have had every other vaccine, plus boosters and flu shots, for decades up to this point. If you don't prostrate yourself before the Holy Coof Juice specifically, then you don't believe in Science! and are a religious nutbag.
Believing in modern medicine is now being a religious nutbag? Even if so, what happened to my religious freedom? Didn't the "R" party used to believe in that, and in small government?
Believing in modern medicine
"If you don't get this one shot, you're an anti-vaxxer! All your previous vaccinations weren't sufficient to demonstrate your faith in Science!"
Soooo... Medical workers have the RIGHT to infect me?
Do you have ANY idea what a colossal, callused asshole you are?
"I wasn't worried about infection last year, but the Prophet Fauci, praise be his name, revealed to me that only those medical temples that have been sanctified with the Holy Coof Juice, the One and True Vaccine, are actually safe enough to visit!"
"Soooo… Medical workers have the RIGHT to infect me?"
Of course they do. What is your plan for restricting people's rights to infect other people with infectious diseases?
Soooo… Medical workers have the RIGHT to infect me?
No.
Viruses have the right to free migration. The most libertarian of causes--right up there with pot smoking and ass sex.
"Soooo… Medical workers have the RIGHT to infect me?"
When you say things like this, I really feel good that I have always tuned out when you start on one of your aimless ramblings.
I used to think that you were actually a principled libertarian who was just really eccentric and overly invested in silly metaphors about flutes. I just took it for granted because, to be honest, I couldn't get through a SINGLE one of your posts that is more than a paragraph long. From the run on sentences to the many exclamation points, it would just make me noxious.
But I now realize that you are not a crazy libertarian, you are just crazy.
Medical workers have the right to their person and privacy. They have the right to move around and to own property. You do not have the RIGHT to force them to protect you from a natural pathogen. Just as I cannot force you to grow trees on your property to decrease CO2, or trap wolves that may migrate across your property onto my own. Some things are just a fact of nature, and it is incumbent on you to protect yourself from them.
Certainly, there is a case to be made that it is a violation of the NAP for someone who KNOWS they are sick to intentionally do something that they know is likely to infect others. That is the line that should be discussed. Unfortunately something is wrong in your head and you are more concerned with ALMIGHTY GOVERNMENT AND ANTI-VAXXER FLUTE HORNS!@!!!!2111! than actually logically discussing this.
It is VERY simple! I want the CHOICE to be able to go to a medical facility where the workers are vaccinated! Governor Abbott will not ALLOW me to do that! Hello?!? Free market, the hospital owners decide who to hire and fire? And advertise (truthfully) to me, that their staff is vaccinated? If the staff doesn't want vaccines, they can work elsewhere? And the Governor stays OUT of my hair, and out of the employers' hairs? WHAT is so horrible about all of this? WHY can't we have some FREEDOM from Government Almighty?
And if you LIKE having to get PERMISSION from Government Almighty and their flunkies, before blowing on a cheap plastic flute... Would you at least PLEASE stop advocating for us all being slaves to Government Almighty, and stop fighting against freedom-lovers? Scientology and other cults will be happy to boss you around all day, every day... About lung flutes, and so much more!
Go join them, if you hate individual freedom, and let freedom-lovers at least advocate (in peace) for freedom from Government Almighty.
"I want the CHOICE to be able to go to a medical facility where the workers are vaccinated! "
So let's be clear: should you also have the CHOICE to be able to go to a hospital with no Jews? Or Blacks? or Disabled nurses?
“Governor Abbott will not ALLOW me to do that!”
The governor has banned vaccinations? You should really move out of Texas.
Flailing squirrel.
"So let’s be clear: should you also have the CHOICE to be able to go to a hospital with no Jews? Or Blacks? or Disabled nurses?"
Yes, I should! As a free human frequenting free businesses, I should! What should NOT be allowed, is fraud... Don't advertise to me that you don't do these kinds of discriminatory things, and then go ahead and discriminate.
Disabled nurses don't give me disabled cooties, by then way... Infected nurses do! Simple difference!
Above and beyond that, read some relevant semi-ancient wisdom below... Give us honest advertising about these things, and the free market does the rest! I would NOT shop at businesses that discriminate on non-sense-based reasons!
(Short version up top).
Ralph Waldo Emerson, who said, ‘The State must follow, and not lead, the character and progress of the citizen.’
Here is the full-blown quote from Ralph Waldo Emerson:
‘Republics abound in young civilians who believe that the laws make the city, that grave modifications of the policy and modes of living and employments of the population, that commerce, education and religion may be voted in or out; and that any measure, though it were absurd, may be imposed on a people if only you can get sufficient voices to make it a law. But the wise know that foolish legislation is a rope of sand which perishes in the twisting; that the State must follow and not lead the character and progress of the citizen; that the form of government which prevails is the expression of what cultivation exists in the population which permits it. The law is only a memorandum.’
Another relevant Emerson quote:
“All men plume themselves on the improvement of society, and no man improves.”
So anyway, suppose that Government Almighty goes too far, and mandates no-meat diets, which many people disagree with, just like the War on Drugs today…
Then there will be underground, makeshift, amateurish animal-killing-and-butchering shops, where the animals will be treated far less humanely than they are today! (Thank You Do-Gooders!!!)
You will not be able to let Fluffy or Fido wander through the bushes in your own back yard, for fear of meat-hungry lawbreaking pet-snatchers!
(But, Meat-Hungry Lawbreaking Pet-Snatchers would make an MOST EXCELLENT name for a garage band!)
In case anyone doesn’t understand what we are saying here… “We” being me & the Ralph Waldo Emerson in my pocket…
If I passed a law saying that one may no longer burn witches for killing our calves and babies, and making our crops fail, just because they are witches using witchcraft… People would laugh at me. We got over witch-burning a LONG time ago, so those laws aren’t needed any more!
We’ve gotten over totally overt anti-black-people bias, to the point where we might start ditching those laws as well. In their place, enforce “truth in adverting” laws… Do NOT put up a sign in your shop, saying “all races welcome here”, and then act to the contrary to your sign! For lack of a non-discrimination sign, and for bad behavior, MOST people today, would punish such a shop, enough! Boycotts work!
More tolerance for gays is newer than more tolerance for blacks. Give it time… In due time, cake-baking laws will be as un-needed as witch-protection laws are today! Ralph Waldo Emerson was right! Let the state follow the progress of the citizens, and not vice versa! Vice versa causes WAAAY too much fighting, and WAAAY too much stupid!
EISTAU Gree-Vance is an idiot who can't read! Texas doesn't allow me to go to a medical facility which certifies all their staff to be vaccinated... Cootie-bags must be allowed to serve me, whether I want cootie-bags to serve me, or not!
Hello, idiot... Learn to READ, maybe?
This is what I wrote earlier...
Shitheads like you and Abbott want to take away my choice to go to medical facilities where I know that all of the employees support modern medicine, and won’t give my cooties that can easily be cut WAAAAY back, by modern medicine. It is THAT simple, evil power-pig liar!
Shockingly, I agree with SQRLSY. As long as a business is clear about its hiring practices (I'd even accept requiring certain disclosures, even if it is compelled speech), I would favor a regime where there were no mandates or prohibitions on who is hired.
That said, in the current regime where we have to choose between a state that mandates behavior, and a state that prohibits mandating a behavior, I have to take the latter. I don't like Abbot's call, but it is vastly superior to Bidens.
*shrug*.
You just read all that shit infused gibberish, Overt?
Good for you?
The anti science by the left here is amazing to watch. You can give them study after study showing vaccines don't slow the spread significantly. But they keep demanding zero infections under authoritarian rule.
Which will never happen because every mammal species is effectively a reservoir.
They don't get that polio and smallpox were effectively contained because there were not many other species susceptible.
No, it's believing that this one (not particularly effective) vaccine must be treated differently from every other medical treatment and be forced on everyone even though it has zero chance of eliminating this virus as something we have to deal with that is the nutbag religion. Almost no one here is arguing against vaccines in general or modern medical science and technology. In fact, most people here arguing against mandates and pointing out the weaknesses of the vaccines have been vaccinated.
You have less faith in vaccines than I do... Now, if 51% of the voters agree with you, my choice of going to a medical facility where the workers share my faith, is taken away from me? If I want to go to a Catholic Church where atheists can't be employed, that isn't allowed either? I MUST go to a church where atheists are allowed to be deacons, priests, and ministers? This whole line of argument here is making Government Almighty BIGGER, not smaller! And my freedoms are getting smaller every day! WTF, what happened to "small government" R Party? Has Trump brainwashed them all?
"Anyone who has gotten every other vaccine, but not the Holy Coof Juice, has no faith in vaccines!"
That you call it faith is telling.
What you put faith in I view with skepticism.
What's really funny is that what you view with faith is what I do as a profession.
You shouldn't have any faith in vaccines. You should look at the available information on how they work and what the risks and benefits are and decide if it's something you want to take based on that and whatever other factors you want to consider.
most people here arguing against mandates and pointing out the weaknesses of the vaccines have been vaccinated
Or already had COVID. Don't forget that they are actively denying the supremacy of naturally acquired resistance.
The atheist shit-muncher's religious-like, spastic devotion to the Holy Coof Juice has been the lulziest part of the comments this morning.
Yep. Giving a spike protein generating vaccine to people with confirmed antibodies to core proteins is, in general, superfluous.
Which is behind a lot of resistance from nurses and other medical professionals to getting vaccinated-they've had COVID and giving them a spike protein is going to be very unpleasant, potentially with nasty effects, and it will accomplish nothing. It's anti-science, it's just kneeling to government authority. It's slicing your palm to prove your loyalty to the lord at that point.
Yes, sorry. In my mind that goes without saying. But clearly it needs to be mentioned to many people still whenever possible.
They didn’t care for it a year ago. What happened?
When the interference has ALREADY happened on the federal side, yes, I would like a state to go after that idiotic interference.
Mike Laursen: Not one single enemy to the Left.
People, don't waste your time arguing with Damned-and-Sick, the Demented... It says utterly stupid shit, and NEVER takes it back! Hasn't a clue what "humility" or "truth" is...
Hey Damiksec, damiskec, and damikesc, and ALL of your other socks…
How is your totalitarian scheme to FORCE people to buy Reason magazines coming along?
Free speech (freedom from “Cancel Culture”) comes from Facebook, Twitter, Tik-Tok, and Google, right? THAT is why we need to pass laws to prohibit these DANGEROUS companies (which, ugh!, the BASTARDS, put profits above people!)!!! We must pass new laws to retract “Section 230” and FORCE the evil corporations to provide us all (EXCEPT for my political enemies, of course!) with a “UBIFS”, a Universal Basic Income of Free Speech!
So leftist “false flag” commenters will inundate Reason-dot-com with shitloads of PROTECTED racist comments, and then pissed-off readers and advertisers and buyers (of Reason magazine) will all BOYCOTT Reason! And right-wing idiots like Damikesc will then FORCE people to support Reason, so as to nullify the attempts at boycotts! THAT is your ultimate authoritarian “fix” here!!!
“Now, to “protect” Reason from this meddling here, are we going to REQUIRE readers and advertisers to support Reason, to protect Reason from boycotts?”
Yup. Basically. Sounds rough. (Quote damikesc)
(Etc.)
See https://reason.com/2020/06/24/the-new-censors/#comment-8316852
How about next time addressing what damikesc actually said?
“Now, to “protect” Reason from this meddling here, are we going to REQUIRE readers and advertisers to support Reason, to protect Reason from boycotts?”
Yup. Basically. Sounds rough. (Quote damikesc)
Can you READ, moronic MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer?
No, it is ALL tribalistic bullshit that you endorse, isn't it?
From http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/ …
“Our human brains today are evolutionary hodge-podges of layer stacked upon layer. Fish brain, then amphibian brain, reptile brain, monkey brain, ape brain, and hunter-gatherer brain. My-tribe-right, your-tribe-is-lesser (or worse) belongs to hunter-gatherer brain. Prophets and seers, seekers and teachers, throughout the years, have criticized their tribes for this. “This ain’t right”, they say! They have called us forwards into the next stage of evolution! And they (at the extremes) have been killed for it! Now again, see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/ for details, but this “kill-the-prophets” thing is likely programmed (instinctively or emotionally) into the hunter-gatherer brain. A polite phrase for it is the “do-gooder derogation” instinct. A more in-your-face term for it might be to call it the Jesus-killer (Mahatma Gandhi-killer, Martin Luther King Jr.-killer, etc.) instinct. There’s very little good news in there for the INDIVIDUAL prophet or teacher. What little good news in this phenomenon is that AFTER we have killed the prophet, THEN we often at least START to listen to what they had to say!”
My tribe’s lies leading to violence are GOOD! YOUR tribe’s lies leading to violence are BAD! That describes YOU, MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer! That is why you and some of your fellow troglodytes hate me!
My tribe’s lies leading to violence are GOOD! YOUR tribe’s lies leading to violence are BAD! That describes YOU, MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer!
So how long till you feel that you’ve built up your tribalistic lies enough, sufficient for you to be justified when you come over here and kill me, and steal my property? Why do you want to steal my property? I DO own MANY books, but they are too long and complex for you to read and comprehend!
You can't read or comprehend anything. You're a fucking looney-toons who has rejected libertarianism for woke fascism. Fuck you Sqrlsy, you retarded nut.
You really expect a Branch Covidian like Dumbfuck HihnSQRLSo to NOT act like a mentally ill homeless person screaming at random passerby?
Never. Not even once will he pass up that sort of chance.
Squirrel hasn’t responded to anything anymore has specifically said. He’s talking past everyone and responding to the voices in his head.
Wow! What we've got here is regular ARMIES of Jesus-killers, Mahatma Gandhi-killers, Martin Luther King Jr.-killers, etc.!
My tribe’s lies leading to violence are GOOD! YOUR tribe’s lies leading to violence are BAD!
Kill the prophets, ye evil assholes!!! BURN the witches and the Demon-Crap vote-thieves!
Truth hurts, doesn't it?
See?
Yes, I do see that R Mac was HURT by the truth!
Flailing. Getting worse.
Uh, no this doesn't. All this means is that private businesses face two contradictory mandates from two different levels of Government. It basically puts all business in Texas in the same "no-man's-land" as marijuana dispensaries in States that have legalized it, even though the Feds still make it illegal.
California has a made a cottage industry of using their jurisdiction to impose upon the rest of the country.
So the Both Sides chorus here at Reason can go fuck themselves.
That includes you Boehm.
Abbott, a Republican, said in a statement that the readily available and safe vaccines were "our best defense against the virus" but added that vaccinations should "always remain voluntary and never forced."
Anti-vax MAGA strikes again.
Its almost like he doesn't believe in government.
...the new ban on vaccine mandates is a significant (and disappointing) reversal for Abbott, who had previously banned government-run entities like school districts from mandating vaccines but had taken a hands-off approach with businesses.
No government goes in the opposite direction of increased regulation on the private sector.
Anti-maskers and vaxxers suck. They make life for the rest of me uncomfortable. Abbot should move to Mexico.
That sounds like your problem.
Maskers make me uncomfortable. I don't go around trying to make them take it off, though, because that's not my business.
The "rest of me"? What part of you is comfortable?
The part where ice cream enters my body.
Parody.
Yes.
I'm more opposed to butt-sucking toadies to the state, but you do you.
Biden's mandate continues to be a massive overreach of executive authority. Abbott's ban on private mandates is little different. Neither is probably all that enforceable...
Although one gives cover to businesses or recourse for employees on the other's dictate.
If the state has the power to mandate vaccines, then it also has the power to mandate against vaccine mandates. Goes both ways for the people claiming that mandates are totally legal and great.
You get a mandate, and you get a mandate, and you get a mandate!
This. Purview and jurisdiction are words with meaning.
Reason writers wouldn't go to the mattresses over Biden's decree, so they really have no business jumping on Abbott's.
There are numerous problems with Reason's take in these articles.
1) Their objections to Vaccine Mandates have largely been pragmatic, or based on a criticism of Executive Authority. That is, at no point have I seen any Reason Author make a principled stand against forcing people to inject themselves with chemicals to protect the "public good". I have seen Sullum argue that maybe the Science doesn't support the cost/benefit analysis. I have seen Boehm suggest that this is not good use of Executive Authority. But neither has made the principled case that the Government ought not to be mandating the chemicals we put in our body- regardless the benefits. (Note that they often make this argument for the War on Drugs- that regardless of the perceived benefit of combatting objection, it is morally wrong for the government to control what you put in your body.)
2) On the other hand, Reason Authors repeatedly make a Principled Stand against interfering with the private contract between an employer and their employees by insisting that it is wrong for government to prohibit mandates. The problem here is that it is such a shallow moral argument. The government ALREADY makes it illegal to hire or fire people on various grounds, including their religion, politics (in CA), disabilities, sex, race, ethnicity, etc. Reason needs to either explain that all of these are morally wrong (and Boehm should explain why he thinks vaccination-status is more difficult to enforce than, say, race) or distinguish what is special about medical behavior vs Politics or Religion.
3) Reason Authors interestingly do not try to attack Abbot's (or de Santis's) mandate-bans on Pragmatic grounds. Why is that? I mean, if you look at 90% of the media out there, they are pushing the narrative that vaccine mandates and masking will save us all because The Science! (tm). I don't think this is intentional, but it essentially frames the discussion as, "Mandates: Not supported by the science (right now), but Mandate-Bans? Morally unacceptable FULL STOP!"
4) Overall, this leads us to the situation where we are negotiating whether the Mandates may or may not be justified, but a government may not prevent them in response to ANOTHER GOVERNMENT even if we all agree they are not justified. It is kind of an absurd place to be because the Reason Staff really lack moral clarity here.
Note that they often make this argument for the War on Drugs- that regardless of the perceived benefit of combatting objection, it is morally wrong for the government to control what you put in your body.
Yeah, but that's an instance where it might interfere in their general hedonistic worldview. If total government hands-off policy was the principle here, Boehm wouldn't be favorably quoting that shitlib Texas Tribune rag in its lamentations of this pushback against federal overreach.
“Yeah, but that’s an instance where it might interfere in their general hedonistic worldview.”
Yep. The current crop of Reason writers aren’t really libertarians from a purely philosophical perspective. They have certain pet issues where they support freedom that can make them seem libertarian, but when they stray into other topics they give up the game.
It’s why there’s a lot more articles about sex workers rights than there is articles on gun rights. And given what’s currently happening in the world (Looking at you Aussies), which one is significantly more important to liberty?
We'll see how these play out through the end of the year. 5% of the workforce quitting or getting fired for not getting the Holy Coof Juice is going to cause a recession; any more than that, and we're looking at the chance of a no-shit depression, particularly with all the supply problems we have.
We're basically little more than a slightly-higher functioning Third World country right now. Kick 5-10% out of the workforce, and it won't matter how much Fedbucks get printed. What's the point of getting $3000 to buy consoooooooooooomer shit if there's nothing available to actually buy?
I think many of them really are libertarian from a philosophic perspective, but not from a financial perspective. That is, they're paid to write otherwise.
+1
That is so exceptionally concise and comprehensive it is guaranteed to be studiously ignored by every Reason writer. Especially so the named ones.
Because they are pathetic like that.
Good summary.
Any publication that takes your advice on points 1 and 2 is going to lack original content. All they could print would be a simple (and short) broad statement of opinion, the same one, over and over. And it would have no explanatory or persuasive power.
You have to give people reasons to change their opinions; telling them simply that their opinion is wrong, or what your opinion is, ain't gonna do it. You also have to be interesting enough to get people to read in the first place.
"Any publication that takes your advice on points 1 and 2 is going to lack original content. All they could print would be a simple (and short) broad statement of opinion, the same one, over and over. And it would have no explanatory or persuasive power."
I don't see that at all. There is enormous amount of conversation around how states could (morally) fight a federal mandate. Instead, they have chosen to 1) morally oppose mandate-bans (and say no more) and then 2) write article after article making a pragmatic case against mandates. So they are having it both ways.
There is nothing "original" about continuously summarizing the science to make the same point about cost/benefit analysis. It has been done 50 times on hundreds of sites. What *hasn't* been done is making the moral case for how libertarianism actually will result in a more moral society. And by the way, set aside article after article making the moral case against vaccine mandates: I haven't seen ONE dedicated to that subject.
More importantly, if every argument towards a libertarian society comes down to whether some study says it is more beneficial, you really don't have a libertarian society. You merely have an authoritarian society that happens to enjoy some freedoms because its Top Authoritarian Men (tm) have looked at the cost/benefit analysis and found it acceptable.
You need to start with the first principle: the NAP. And from there, point out the misery that inevitably occurs when you deviate. Not the other way around.
Mandates are freedom!
Work makes you free!
Though I suppose the contemporary version is "sitting at home jerking off makes you free".
So, a mandate to jerk off?
That's the part that comes (heh) during destabilization. There will be more than enough work when we're back at normalization.
Well yeah. How else is the government going to do all the things that the private sector can’t do anymore because they can’t hire people to do it?
Abbott's new mandate also puts some businesses in a tricky situation where they must choose between disobeying state or federal law.
They should ask medical marijuana dispensaries for advice.
There is no federal law to mandate vaccines.
And none to censor social media, right?
? OSHA is drafting the regulation right now.
So it doesn't exist.
They have no clue either. All they know is they can't get financing from a bank due to "money laundering" laws and can't ge insurance for the same reason, all because the Feds make marijuana illegal.
What federal law? The Biden Administration has talked about imposing a vaccination mandate for employment,but they have not issued a rule yet.
“A school board for French-speaking Catholic schools in Ontario, Canada held a ‘flame purification’ ceremony to get rid of books deemed offensive by Aboriginal knowledge keepers.
Somebody had to get the ball rolling.
Ah, the French and the Catholics, two groups known for their tolerance.
They were apparently burning things like Tin Tin and Asterix on the theory that indigenous peoples are intolerant of those things.
Seeing them burn Tintin books made me burn with rage. And buy a book collection. I had never read Tintin in the Land of the Soviets before, and it made me happy to know Herge was anticommunist, even in 1929.
You'd think they'd have learned about the inevitable outcome when dealing with Black Robes.
Second time, farce.
The books in question are "How to Win at Blackjack" and "Gaming the Roulette Wheel"
You know who else held "flame purification" ceremonies to get rid of books deemed offensive?
Matthias and his "Family" in The Omega Man?
https://youtu.be/FaMZen0UicU
The American Association of School Librarians ?
But it’s okay, because this is a GOOD book burning.
Is it France, or the Church, or books they have the problem with?
For me, Yes. But as a libertarian, I also hold that none of these problems are answered with burning.
But that's quite unrelated to the more immediate question of how to help people suffering from chronic pain or opioid addiction.
Jail, baby. It's American society's panacea.
I am looking forward to when Twitface requires proof of vaccination to log in. And then proof of vaccination to vote. But not ID, of course.
#FreedomFlu
"Private businesses don't need government running their business," an Abbott spokesperson told the Tribune in August.
Apparently, Abbott now thinks they do.
That fucker shut down my sock factory just because I hired 8-year old orphans to work the production line, paid them $5 a week, kept them chained in place, and beat them with a rubber hose if they failed to meet quota. "Businesses don't need government running their business" indeed, you lying piece of shit.
Orphan monocle polishers are more profitable than orphan sock sewers.
But did you give them the jab?
My biggest problem with reason the last half decade is that the libertarianism they try to push maximizes liberty at a corporate level, not an individual level. And they do so knowing government has a huge hand in swaying corporations. It is pathetic.
Exactly. Reason always defends corporate liberty, but is wishy washy at best when it comes to individual liberty.
Where do you think most of their funding comes from?
Google.
This. They are strict 'libertarians' for corporate interests, but Utilitarians (at best) when it comes to individual liberty.
IOW , they are shills for their paymasters.
That piece of shit told me I have to hire broads, even though they're a pain in the ass and have babies all the time.
Coach Gruden?
Former coach Gruden.
Loose big lips sink ships.
The House of Representatives could vote Tuesday to raise the debt limit until December, preventing the Treasury from defaulting on America's near-record pile of debt.
That road is unlimited and that can sails far.
Yeah, we just have to kick it harder.
So long as the Fed will buy bonds, .Gov will issue them.
Near record?
Have we owed 29 trillion before?
Hey, just in time to excuse missed cancer diagnoses from Covid panic:
Delingpole: BMJ Urges Doctors to Cut Back on Treatment Because Climate Change
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2021/10/11/delingpole-bmj-urges-doctors-to-cut-back-on-treatment-because-climate-change/
...Healthcare contributes 4-5 per cent of global greenhouse gas emissions. In the NHS, 62 per cent of these emissions are from its supply chains and 24 per cent from delivery of care. Health professionals can be institutional leaders who drive decarbonisation in hospitals through reducing overdiagnosis and overtreatment in healthcare, eliminating waste, streamlining services, and better managing suppliers and procurement. All of these efforts will bring us closer to making healthcare more sustainable.
...The pressure to diagnose cancers earlier and earlier is another major contributor to modern medicine’s carbon footprint. Over successive years we’ve been told to continually lower our threshold for suspecting cancer, and we’re encouraged to investigate sooner and more extensively. In primary care, most patients with mildly elevated or even high normal platelet counts now undergo a barrage of investigations in case thrombocytosis is an early indicator of underlying cancer. What does the yield of these tests have to be to make this an acceptable approach? And shouldn’t we be considering the environmental impact of putting so many patients on a conveyor belt of investigations, as part of cost-benefit calculations?
...Adopting the largely plant based planetary health diet and taking most journeys using a combination of walking, cycling, and public transport would substantially reduce greenhouse gas emissions and improve our health.
Animal sourced foods (meat, dairy, fish) generally use much more land and water and create more greenhouse gases than plant sourced food. Sustainable and healthy diets consist largely of diverse plant foods with low amounts of animal source foods, unsaturated rather than saturated fats, and limited amounts of refined grains, highly processed foods, and added sugars. The nature and scale of change required depends on existing dietary patterns and nutritional status of local populations. For example, to meet the planetary health diet recommendations, average meat consumption in Africa can slightly increase (2 per cent), whereas in North America and Europe it needs to fall by 79 per cent and 68 per cent, respectively.
Sustainable land travel will involve substantially fewer journeys by car and more journeys taken by foot, bicycle, and public transport, ensuring that all transport is carbon neutral and powered by renewable energy. This requires a transformation of the energy sector and transport infrastructure, prioritising active and public transport over road building. Estimates of the nature and scale of change needed vary. In the UK, for example, a central net zero pathway includes car mileage per driver falling by 10 per cent by 2050, whereas other analysis calls for a reduction between 20 per cent and 60 per cent by 2030, depending on the speed of transition to electric vehicles.
And these are the people we should hand over control of our healthcare system to?
Here come the death panels as predicted.
Brought to you by the Luddites and green fascists who essentially hate people, including themselves. Allowing any of them any say in how we run our lives is essentially suicidal (and that's their goal).
"Homicidal", Skeptic. These fuckers never intend to be subjected to the Good Ideas that are great for everyone else.
The ideological leaders of this Great Reset movement ultimately want you and me dead. They just don't have an easy way of pulling it off yet. (Though bioinformatics and CRISPR might give them that tool, really soon.)
Unfortunately, from their point of view, mass humanity is still slightly useful, for labor productivity if nothing else. Voting to uphold the continuing system as well. Isolating us as urban, pod-bound serfs, will serve those purposes during the interim.
Make no mistake, they're Utopians, and the Road to Utopia is always paved with bones.
“Unfortunately, from their point of view, mass humanity is still slightly useful,”
The American middle class and small businesses owners, however…
All of these efforts will bring us closer to making healthcare more sustainable.
"Because efforts to make healthcare more effective is racist and you hate Mother Earth."
These people are dangerous and should be treated as such.
If you take away the gains from people smoking less, cancer survivability hasn't improved in decades. People aren't really living longer with cancer, they just know they have it sooner.
Many routine cancer screenings subject far more people to unneeded surgery than lives that are saved from early detection.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/the-cancer-industry-hype-vs-reality/
Why Our Fixation on the Murder Rate Is Killing Us
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/10/murders-rose-in-2020-dont-give-more-money-to-police.html
Following the recent release of the FBI’s crime data for 2020, which shows a 30 percent rise in homicides, proponents of the status quo in our criminal legal system doubled down on their demands to roll back reform and increase our investments in conventional policing strategies. This knee-jerk reaction reflects overly simplistic and outdated thinking about homicide. To break our over-reliance on policing, we need to reframe how we discuss homicide trends in the first place.
Understandably, we tend to think about homicides in the context of other crimes—but we should also look at homicides in the context of other deaths. Homicide is not the only kind of death that implicates how we invest in policing. In fact, the three other significant causes of death alongside homicides among those under 40—deaths by suicide, drug overdose, and vehicular accidents—are all strongly influenced by our reliance on, or unwillingness to move away from, policing.
Police departments often consume a significant portion of city spending, with many police departments receiving something like 20 to 30 percent of city budgets; in Milwaukee, it’s more than half. So investing more in policing—which, for all the “defund” rhetoric, has been the general pattern over 2020—crowds out other spending, often on mental health care and drug treatment centers—the sorts of interventions that reduce deaths by suicide and drug overdose. Investing in police also increases the political power of an institution that has frequently opposed successful programs, such as safe injection sites and other responses to drug use that are centered around treatment instead of punishment.
In 2019, the last year for which the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention published public death data from the National Vitality Statistics System, homicide is the smallest cause of death for those under 40 among homicide, death by suicide, drug overdoses, and vehicle accidents (and even less major a cause of death for those over 40).
Ummm, suicide isn't really the government's business. Unlike preventing someone else from violating my rights by murdering me.
Right. Now, see, this is where I'd've expected Overt to complain. Except it's not about Reason publications, so I guess it doesn't matter.
But a utilitarian argument can be made about this too: that other causes of our own death, we can do something about ourselves, but death at the hands of someone else we can prevent only by interfering with that someone else.
"Now, see, this is where I’d’ve expected Overt to complain."
About what exactly? I'll be honest- I saw a link to Slate and a quote from there and I skipped this post. (I only saw your post when I Ctrl-F'd to see if there were replies to my User ID.)
I have no interest in critiquing Slate writers, because making them better at their job will not further the cause to liberty.
But that said, if you want my hot take: Slate seems to be saying "OMFG, let's not look at the spike in murder rates because it might give ammunition to the Pro-Police people."
...Meh?
I think (and of course cannot prove) that the increase in murder rates has nothing to do with true legislative reforms or so-called "defund the police" movements. IMHO, the spike in Homicides (which I guess includes Suicide? I didn't look deeply) is a direct result of the enormous punitive actions of state governments over the last ~2 years. Not only did they lock down many people, force them out of work and business, but then gave a pass to people engaging in certain lawbreaking while condemning the others.
So on the one hand, I think Slate is quite craven for trying to distract from inconvenient data, but I also think they are right when they say that the pro-police people are taking an undeserved lap.
Finally, my greater moral lesson from this ordeal is that 1) it is better to not have a draconian police state but 2) if you are going to have one, it needs to be consistent and not arbitrary or capricious in its enforcement of the law. For example, I think Singapore for all its draconian laws is probably more moral than New York City these days (though it's a tough one) merely because New York seems only willing to enforce laws in certain circumstances.
Police departments often consume a significant portion of city spending, with many police departments receiving something like 20 to 30 percent of city budgets; in Milwaukee, it’s more than half.
Gee, I wonder what the socio-economic and demographic makeup of Milwaukee is that would require such a large police presence to mitigate a general descent in to anarchy.
The violent offenders are continually re-released through the 'reform' advocacy of evil fucks like this writer, somehow never end up victimizing those writers. Which is a damned shame.
You stop violent crime by incapacitating the provably unlawfully violent. (And by disfavoring or eradicating the culture that encourages unlawful violence as a means of personal advancement and dispute resolution.) You don't stop it by giving the proven violent a 10th second chance through continually giving those offenders low to no bail. Or bitching when the cops are forced to use lethal force to stop those violent offenders from reoffending.
Radley Balko, when he still wrote here, had a tremendous point about the lack of consequences for police use of force, and the consequent insane overuse of violent tactics such as no-knock police warrant raids. That point has been perverted by this corrupted rag of a magazine, beyond all understanding, to further violent crime-induced chaos in our society.
Shorter version: murder, not so bad.
Banks are up in arms about the Biden administration's plans to track deposits and withdrawals of over $600.
Any business that collects income tax is already a de factor federal employee. Suck it up, banks.
Mattress sales explode!
They could always tell him no and to GFH.
And Fuck Be Unto Joe Biden!
Fuck Joe Biden
Fuck be unto Tulpa!
So lame.
Fuck Dee!
Wow! I think that's the longest thread I ever triggered! 🙂
I bet mom hangs it on the refrigerator for you .
Uh, she's no longer with us, but I can get the refrigerator magnet all by myself.
Spotted in Pompeii
FVCK JOSEPHVS BIDENVS.
Botcherus Maximus
Was that quote from Bigus Dickus?
https://youtu.be/HrcbCW4y9Dw
Can't Abbott just ban Texas banks from reporting any account with transfers of over 500 dollars?
Two can play that game.
Please don't poke the bear! Between mandates and banning mandates and banning bans on mandates and mandating bans on mandates, I just can't keep up!
"By sticking his nose into the affairs of private businesses, "
Alternate headline: By protecting Texans form businesses sticking their nose into the affairs of private citizens.
Individuals are behind collusive corporations in Boems world.
I'm not sure how he thinks the Feds demanding businesses to a vaccine mandate is NOT sticking noses into the affairs of private business.
Boehm is hitting Dalmia levels of sheer ineptitude in thought.
So who's behind them? Skynet? The Borg? The Good Fairy? God? You?
Boards, executives and investors are not a single owner. Publicly traded multinationals aren't the same thing as a single owner LLC.
But, ultimately, they are all individuals. Hence, my facetious questioning about ownership.
Don't be a disingenuous twat.
Your body is made up of cells, but you're not one giant cell, and a publicly traded corporation isn't an individual.
You could remove and replace every single individual shareholder, board member, executive, manager and grunt, and the corporation would continue to exist.
You misread it.
In the order of liberty, Boehm is implying a corporation has more rights than an individual.
I was under the impression that individuals own and invest in businesses.
You just made the equivalent argument to rents should be controlled because renters need to be protected from greedy landlords.
No grasshopper, he did not.
that is what you believe isn't it?
Typical White Mike tactic. Take what someone said and then reword it into an unrelated statement that Mike can attack.
No, you’re just stupid.
This man was sentenced to 24 years in prison for his role in a robbery that never happened and the cops planned...
Easy arrests are the best arrests.
Precrime is crime, right?
It's right there in the name.
Future headline, "mam spends 24 years in prison for google search he didn't commit".
Yes but he might have thought about it.
Since he's a "mam," which prison did he go to? Or did he become a "mam" in prison?
What else did he do? What else had he done, such that 24 years imprisonment sounded like a good idea to the sentencing body?
Though that sounds insanely high for mere conspiracy to commit robbery or being involved in the preparation for the crime. It could very well be that he got the hammer because he didn't know anything, and therefore had nothing to trade.
When you see law enforcement---any of them, especially the Feds at this point---or any members of the criminal justice system, think "I'm looking at DMV employees in slightly better clothes. Petty, vain, egotistical, and all too willing to indulge themselves with their temporary position of power."
He said it was for a conversation, but when you get into the details, it was more than that: He also showed up for the ride to get needed implements, and then to the scene of where the hypothetic crime would've taken place. It's still a sick thing for cops to do.
And when you look at the particulars of the succession of stings, it's even more nuts. You say setting people up for a fake burglary is to help protect similarly-placed persons from being burglarized? The supposed item being burglarized was cocaine being run by a smuggling consortium. So are we to believe the cops set up these stings to protect cocaine merchants from having their wares stolen? How many layers removed from justice is this?
Mandatory vaccination policies should always include carveouts to cover those who have had a previous COVID-19 infection or have religious or medical reasons for not getting jabbed,
Yet somehow they never do - - - - - -
That should also include people who would rather die.
Like science is more important than politics.
Once you realize the mandates have precisely zero to do with science and everything to do with control, it will make way more sense.
That’s why there can’t be any exceptions. (Except for celebrities and inner party members.)
Why more people aren't outraged about the clearly different rules is always baffling.
Propaganda works.
Reason proving, once again, they'll wreck their groins trying to straddle a fence to oppose government action in defense of free personal choice.
If Abbott had mandated that their contracts needed to be renegotiated or that they just couldn't be fired for refusing to get vaccinated, Reason would find a way to 'both sides' enforcing contracts as written.
https://twitter.com/lukerosiak/status/1447694543856586757
As Loudoun schools sought to pass a controversial transgender policy in June, it concealed that a 9th-grade girl was allegedly raped by a "gender fluid" student in a school bathroom just 3 weeks prior, The Daily Wire has learned.
I’m guessing we all know what fluids were involved.
The offending student was discharged.
Gives new meaning to “hey, squirt!”
Such a rapier wit.
Gender fluid? I guess I have not been keeping up with woke technology. How much do you need, and where do you get it?
Thankfully, the FBI will be able to intimidate any member of the public bringing this up t a school board meeting
AG Garland: WHAT? YOU OPPOSE YOUR DAUGHTER BEING RAPED BY AN OPPRESSED TRANNY? Fucking terrorist...
The police arrested and prosecutor charged the girl's father at a meeting after he reacted "negatively" to a female leftist's assertion that his daughter was lying about the rape. But #BelieveAllWomen
#believeallwomen
When the woman with the penis say she didn't do anything inappropriate with her penis, you are required to believe her. You can simultaneously believe she didn't rape her classmate and that her classmate was raped by her. When rape involves 2 women it is like relativity.
Can I stick the rapist in a box with a cyanide tank? I don't need to actually know if the tank broke open or not...
Schrödinger's rapist.
Also part of the story: SJW activist at the meeting where the father was arrested, told the father she didn't believe his daughter.
#believewomenwhenitspoliticallyconvenient
#believesomewomen
The same kid also assaulted someone else at another school he was moved to.
All comments on this are "too soon"...eternally.
"Banks are up in arms about the Biden administration's plans to track deposits and withdrawals of over $600."
I actually like this rule. It's a perfect illustration of Democratic economic priorities — pretend you're going after Jeff Bezos, then spy on the finances of ordinary people.
#OBLsFirstLaw
Because billionaire tax cheats do it in increments of $600.
This is what Reason wanted. No more mean tweets.
"President Joe Biden announced last month that all businesses with more than 100 employees would be required to mandate vaccines for their workers (or conduct weekly tests), with the Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) enforcing the mandate."
Sadly, Eric, a Biden press conference does not create a law.
It does if you really, really, really believe.
So, why is the governor of Texas countering a mandate that doesn’t exist yet?
Because he likes freedom.
... by imposing a mandate!
How many corporations issued mandates prior to the EO? Those businesses who are Government contractors are under a different EO than those who would be covered by OSHA. But you are too dumb to understand 2 different EOs were issued.
Jon Gruden resigned as head coach of the NFL's Las Vegas Raiders after emails containing homophobic and misogynistic language were made public by The New York Times.
If he didn't want his misdeeds making all the news that's fit to print he should have worked in the Biden administration instead of criticizing it.
I bet those emails were from this year and not numerous years ago. Because libertarians would never support attacking speech from YEARS ago to punish somebody now.
Locker room talk was banned in 2016.
I dunno. What does The New Republic think about it? That might change their minds.
The New Republic was fine with Joy Reid making comments 10 years ago. Just not Gruden.
Or Ron Paul.
Gruden should not have resigned he should have made them fire him and then sue for infringing on his freedom of speech since nothing he said was illegal.. It is not a crime to make stupid comments or to be a racist yet here we are treating anything they consider uncomfortable a crime and punishable by not allowing a person to work
Gruden is free to work for an employer who loves gay-bashing racists. Maybe he can coach for the Republican National Committee?
Or change his name to Biden, then the media will hide everything.
It was also well prior to his hiring.
My guess, as in all these events he was offered a big pay out if he went quietly.
From what I could read between the lines was that he sent those e-mails to Allen and they found in some kind of investigation into the Washington Football Team. First off, Gruden was stupid and childish to use that kind of language especially if was to someone else's work e-mail. On the other hand, it seems this was not public correspondence, but Gruden having private correspondence with a friend and venting about the woke stuff going on in the NFL, in particular the Rams publicity stunt of drafting a gay college player. What Gruden wrote was crude, but I have trouble believing that former players, like Booger McFarland, who condemned Gruden absolutely last night do not have regrettable language they have used in private conversations that would get them in trouble if they came to light.
There is also the strange assertion that calling any black person dumb is presumably racist, but not do, for any other group.
The judgmentalism is rather terrible to see.
The "racist" bit keeps going back to his mocking the size of Smith's lips, which are massively out of proportion to his face. But this stinks to high hell of Goodell being a vindictive POS - I doubt he would order this sort of thing, but the people in his office know it couldn't hurt. It's like the motives behind Bridgegate.
And yeah, like McFarland never called Goodell a faggot or a bitch, or Michael Sam. Because that's believable.
The argument is being that questioning a black person's intelligence at all is racist, not just if you call them stupid because they are black.
A Maryland county where exactly one child has died of COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemic will expand its mask mandate to cover children as young as two.
Forget it, Jake. It's Marylandtown.
Good luck getting two year olds to wear masks. Or to not wipe their snotty fingers all over everything.
If it’s mandated, everyone needs to do it no matter what. Right?
Enforcement shall be overseen by the Capitol Police.
https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1447782255754194945
Child actors used for Kamala Harris' bizarre space video
It's funny as hell when you realize that she hired image consultants a few weeks ago.
Trump would have fired them already, the big meanie.
Why not just bring an actual class of children? I mean it's still an obvious political stunt but you can just get a good editor to cut the best bits together to make yourself look good and you seem less blatantly out of touch because you might end up touching someone who wasn't paid to be there.
You can pay child actors not to roll their eyes.
A school board for French-speaking Catholic schools in Ontario, Canada held a 'flame purification' ceremony to get rid of books deemed offensive by Aboriginal knowledge keepers.
Ha, that took an expected yet expected turn.
Hey, those aboriginals knew better than to write things down. They probably stay off social media, too.
Ray Bradbury is now spinning in his grave so fast he could become the third most potent force of energy in the universe.
Smoke signals should count as social media.
The original What's App disappearing message. Only it really did disappear.
Reason's been oddly silent on this new bookburning craze. I guess it hasn't shown on their twitter feeds.
Maybe if someone told them the books were actually porn and the Moral Majority did it.
I can't speak for Reason, but Rule 34 is in effect for me always and I am a bucket brigade volunteer against any book burning.
I don't even like book burning symbolically against the worst books. Pastor Terry Jones, instead of burning The Qu'ran, should have read it publicly, cover to cover, then followed it up with reading The Holy Bible cover to cover, then shed his clerical collar.
You really think that these people haven't spent most of their lives studying those books, don't you?
The problem here isn't that the Taliban and Jones don't know what is in the books they've read. It's that you think that you do.
Well, if someone wants to really convince people a book is bad, instead of book-burning or censorship, what better way than to read the book in public and show people tbe content?
And, yes, I've read those books. I wouldn't ban either and the quickest way to become an Atheist is to actually read them, not by rote, but literally and in full context.
Magazines at an adult bookstore are more tasteful, peaceful, friendly and helpful than the content of The Holy Bible or The Qu'ran No one ever waged Thirty Years Wars or Jihads over Penthouse Letters or Blue Boy.
I've read them all. And not just read them, studied them in university. And I can say without any hesitancy, that you have not.
Your knowledge seems entirely derived from deliberate misinterpretations commonly found on fedora-tipping anti-theist internet sites. And it is ignorant and wrong.
An all-too-expected turn. As Heinrich Heine observed, people are next.
Yes. Yes they are.
Western Civilization is fragile, and rather unique. We're about to find out what much of the rest of the World already knew.
That really the scary part of all this shit. These people have created fake boogie men to convince them that our society is evil, without any understanding of human history, or even what’s going on in much of the world right now.
The freedom that we have is an exception to most of humanity.
Indeed. Next time you encounter anyone in the Culture War, whether SJW, BLMer, CRTist, Alt-Right Winger, Neo-Reactionary, or Nat-Con, send this video their way and watch minds get blown:
Ibn Warraq--The Superiority of Western Values
https://youtu.be/spulRXEMvxw
And come to think of it, keep it on a thumb drive in someplace hidden.
"a look at this year's Nobel Prize winners"
When does Biden get his Nobel Peace Prize? I don't make this statement lightly, but I'd argue Biden is even more deserving than Obama.
#LibertariansForBiden
The Nobel is available only to the living (or sentient?).
After he gets his accidental drone bombing deaths of innocents count to 100.
Winners did climate science, unsurprisingly:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/beyond-the-winners-nobel-prize-for-climate-science-is-a-victory-for-many1/
https://twitter.com/JesseKellyDC/status/1447688760913768452
This 16 year old girl has shown more balls than 90% of elected GOP politicians in the country. That’s as inspiring as it is sad. 16 years old. “Eff you. Take me to jail.” What a boss.
Quote Tweet
Michael Austin
@mikeswriting
· 17h
This is Grace Smith.
Grace is a 16-year-old junior at Laramie High School who was arrested and removed from school in handcuffs.
Her crime? Not wearing a surgical mask.
I miss the days when the public schools taught you that ducking and covering under your desk would protect you from a nuclear explosion.
Well, to be fair, the primary purpose of duck and cover was to protect you from flying glass if you were on the outskirts. You are low enough that the windows will blow out over your head and mostly rain down on top of the desks.
Yeah, that would work for sure.
It's good advice for any impending explosion. What's wrong with the schools teaching a bit of potentially useful procedure?
Also, it's a preparedness conditioning drill, much the same way soldiers are drilled to suit up, put their boots on, and grab kit when shit starts exploding. Shit may be exploding but your training has conditioned you to prepare and you can (relatively) calmly do so. Instead of kids panicking and going in 20 different directions while the teachers/admins get their shit together, every kid is under a desk. Our school used it for tornadoes (likely) and earthquakes (not at all likely) too.
Per the bomb scenario, if it's close enough to vaporize the school, it rightly won't matter, but if it's not, everybody is safe enough and comfortable enough for the first few minutes of assessing what the hell happened. Additionally, when the time comes to clear the debris and nobody's heard from little Timmy, when they unearth his smashed desk and there's a bloodsmear underneath, rescue workers can be pretty confident they don't have to risk their own or someone else's life looking for him.
You should leave the classroom and move to an actually defensible room for a tornado. Like the inner hall with no windows.
Not sure what the biggest risk an earthquake poses in a classroom. Probably the roof collapsing with the walls buckle. I think outside is the best place to go in that case.
You should leave the classroom and move to an actually defensible room for a tornado.
Why not schedule tornadoes and plan accordingly? Come to think of it, how about just not have tornadoes altogether? There were no inner hallways without windows in my school. There was a basement with classrooms, but there's no way the entire school would fit even if they had enough warning. The one school in my area that I know that was at least partially destroyed, the hallways were the worst place to be as they were more like breezeways between the otherwise freestanding structures.
As I said, it isn't the best solution (sheltering in place is a pretty bad idea for a fire or an active shooter incident), that's not the point. It's the best solution right... *now*.
Doorways and under desks are safest if you're caught indoors. Have a whistle to save your voice calling for help if the building collapses. (A whistle is also good to have when lost in the woods or signalling for help on urban streets.) Also, when stuck in a collapsed building, do what comes naturally anyway and urinate and defecate in place, so the search party dogs will know there is a human presence in the rubble.
When doing disaster clean-up, turn off power, water, and gas sources, watch out for live electrical wiring, broken plumbing, gas mains, sewage, and chemical spills. When finding humans and other animals pinned under rubble, keep them conscious and calm until professional EMT can extricate them. Suddenly lifting heavy objects off of living things can cause deadly hemorrhaging.
Pulling over and stopping on the curb is safest when driving, so you don't drive into a fault line cracking open the Earth or encounter any roadway panic. A 72-hour bug-out bag of water, food, clothing, shelter, signalling items, communication items such as a CB radio, auto tools, and personal defense items is a must for any car scenario.
If on foot outdoors, it's best to find a clearing away from falling objects and lay low until the tremor feels like it has passed. Listen to reports on a terrestrial radio or smartphone if the service still works. A whistle once again helps for signalling, as does bright cloth. Check yourself and others for injuries and administer First Aid.
As you can see, I've studied Emergency Preparedness and Survivalism since Hurricane Hugo in 1989.
The Israelis make bomb shelters standard features in most homes, schools, businesses, and publicly-accesible buildings. That way, there's no bloodsplat under desks for which to risk lives and call trauma clean-up crews.
The U.S. once promoted Civil Defense and encouraged people building their own shelters in home basements and stock them with food, water, hygiene items tools, and other provisions. I guess people went to sleep thinking nothing could ever go wrong.
The Israelis make bomb shelters standard features in most homes, schools, businesses, and publicly-accesible buildings. That way, there’s no bloodsplat under desks for which to risk lives and call trauma clean-up crews.
Pretty sure there's been more bloosplatter cleanup in Israel in the last decade than in the vast majority of US cities and schools. You are right though, building bomb shelters for people to crowd into when the storm swell would decrease the number of people killed by building collapse.
Something like 30% of public schools in the inner city don't have air conditioning. I'm sure empty, underfunded proposals of retrofitting them with bomb shelters will be of great comfort the next time a disaster strikes.
Civil Defense encouraging shelters and basements stocked with food are from an era when far fewer people lived in apartment high rises.
Not saying people shouldn't be prepared, but as far as strongly suggesting the best possible solutions without generating undue burden, "get beneath something that's potentially stronger, more durable/expendable, and already available" is not a bad policy.
https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1447640418691076096
Aztecs believe their rain god Tlaloc required the tears of children. Priests would hold children captive and make their teeth rot. Nerves exposed, the children would weep in agony before being ritualistically sacrificed. This is established historical fact. #IndigenousPeoplesDay
I really wish we'd pick a couple major tribes/nations and teach their full history as part of American history. The ongoing problem we have is that either a teacher will gloss over the accomplishments or the horrors of pre-european civilization in America. Which gives school kids the impression that America was either a paradise or a hell hole before Columbus showed up.
The truth is you wouldn't want to have lived in essentially any of the pre-european tribes, but you wouldn't have wanted to live in essentially any of the European societies at that time either. History is a constant reminder of how good we have it.
I heard some woke idiot say today "we know Columbus discovered America. Well, he discovered Indian slavery too".
I think the Incas beat him too it (and probably a hundred political entities in North America before them).
No, no, no, no, no.
The Incas were just playing a game. Plus CRT tells us that oppression, including slavery, can only be committed by white people. And the Incas lived in perfect harmony with nature, so they had environmental justice.
No, the Incas supposedly practiced a non monetary quasi socialist economy where you paid in labor to the state. They are to be admired, apparently
Columbus was in a bind because he didn't find all the spices in the Indies to trade he had counted on, because he wasn't in the Indies. (His Admiral of the Ocean Seas title granted him a one-eighth share in all trans-Atlantic trade!)
So he tried to export the local Indigenous people back to Spain as slaves. But Queen Isabella said he couldn't sell them as slaves because they were her new subjects, and should be converted to Christianity instead.
How good we have it? Liar!
Everyone (under 25) knows how terrible things are, and getting worse. And that for the past couple of decades all living things have died in the next 5 years.
They're not wrong anymore. Things have been objectively deteriorating for the last two-or-so years.
Are we talking urban centers or the pandemic lockdown clusterfuck?
Yes.
It’s like I been tryin to tell ya…..
As Paul Harvey sagely observed:
"'The Good Old Days' weren't...always...good!"
Back in high school, I did a research paper on the Comanches. A couple of the more interesting things I learned was 1) they were actually a Shoshone band who had migrated south from Wyoming starting in the late 1600s, and didn't really become a raider tribe until after they acquired horses; and 2) loooooooved torturing their captives.
All of the plains/mountain tribes (anyone who lived where the climate prevented agriculture) were barely on the edge of survival types until they got horses.
You really can tell what Native Americans needed to survive by just looking at what they held sacred. For the plains and mountain tribes, it was buffalo and other game animals; for the southwestern tribes, it was corn and turkeys.
Interestingly enough, the Pueblo tribes didn't actually use turkeys as livestock; they used the feathers for clothing and in religious ceremonies, but didn't eat them. When the Spanish were conquering the area, they could tell how frightened the tribe was if they abandoned their pueblo without taking the turkeys along; the tribes figured it was better to get out alive and leave the turkeys for the Spanish to eat, since they could always go to another pueblo band.
So, in spiritual harmony with nature.
If the kid wasn't crying loud enough they'd rip off their fingernails too.
Another thing that they never talk about is the thousand year long genocide campaign by the Dene against the Inuit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Falls_massacre
Today we just give them a bunch of Halloween candy and tell them we canceled Netflix.
Wonder if the gallery owner is buying a painting himself to say thanks.
https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1447626934129659910
Federal Loans to Hunter Biden's gallerist nearly DOUBLED after Biden entered office— totaling more than HALF A MILLION DOLLARS.
The gallerist has only 2 employees.
This isn't being talked about nearly enough...
This isn’t being talked about nearly enough…
I wonder why.
Local news?
Holy shit...really?
Good lord, everything they accused Trump of doing is what Biden is actually doing.
Absolutely amazing, isn't it. And yet they can rely on the establishment media to cover it up for them.
Alinsky smiles.
But it’s not like he has $400 worth of stock through a mutual fund that he is enriching himself with.
If it's under 600 bucks, how would we ever know?
Israeli study shows benefits if aspirin to greatly reduce covid deaths greatly.
*reason keeps eating the link. Google "Aspirin lowers risk of COVID: New findings support preliminary Israeli trial"*
So why isn't it in wider use in the US? Last year fauci said aspirin would harm patients, not help them.
Bow watch brandy, sarc, SPB declare aspirin as a horse medication.
Oh shit, now aspirin is going to become a Dangerous Toxin.
And banned on Twitface.
Talk of aspirin, better known as a cattle sedative, for use in humans is banned by Twitter as misinformation
How many deaths can be attributed to the lack of coverage and public information about potential treatments? I'm thinking quite a few.
I also like the actual attacking of potential treatments. That's GOOD science reporting there.
I'm starting to think that it's the point.
Deliberately halting research on potential treatments and traditional protein vaccines, while pushing experimental mRNA "vaccines". Meanwhile even the processes' inventor is telling everyone who will listen that they're dangerous.
I know people who are taking the "horse" medicine and heard of some overdoses. i blame the government for not allowing proper information about something that works so that people would not self harm from not knowing proper dosing. lack of knowledge by forced silence is murder.
Taking horse pills is probably a dumb idea. But the only reason people are doing so is that so many doctors are refusing to prescribe the human version. It seems so silly. If it might help and is minimally dangerous at appropriate doses, why they hell not?
The 'version' is not an issue - the active ingredient is identical in both products. The only issue is dose. Not just the daily amount, but also duration of therapy.
Otherwise I agree, if you limit yourself to already established dosing it is a very safe drug, so the fuss is curious to say the least.
Same goes for chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine. Although, relatively speaking those are drugs with comparatively more serious side effects.
I should also add that there has always been a contingent within the healthcare fields that is adamantly opposed to any off label use of drugs. But that cohort is simply not large enough to account for what we have seen in relation to Covid.
No, this is politics.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. I understand that it's the same drug in either product and if you know the appropriate dose and can measure it it really makes no difference where it comes from.
Couldn't there be a difference in purity?
What are you talking about? Information about ivermectin (or any other medicine) is readily available in many, many places on the Internet.
Cite?
if i get the lab virus from wuhan i'm just going to do exactly what joe Rogan did. Worked for him.
Well, shit, I do that as a preventative heart care regimen, not to mention for work-a-day aches and pains! 'Guess the WuFlu passed me by even before I got vaccinated. 🙂
Must be fake news. Every old fart in the country is already taking aspirin for his heart, and yet they still get the Communist Chinese Virus and die.
(spoiler alert; they ALL die eventually)
As if on schedule.
Indeed for a few years now I've been off aspirin in favor of clopidogrel (Plavix), and am also taking Eliquis (apixaban). I have several coronary stents and have had two heart attacks.
After my previous stentings, I'd been on clopidogrel for a year, and then continuing aspirin. Now it's reversed: clopidogrel indefinitely but no aspirin. It may be that with the anticoagulant, Eliquis, the combined action of aspirin and clopidogrel against platelet aggregation may be too much. Or maybe the anticoagulant has nothing to do with that consideration. I use only acetaminophen for pain, unless I need something stronger. I notice I bleed much less when I get a shaving cut than I did when I used aspirin.
There are so many ways to die. I recently had a friend about 50 years old die of a bleeding stomach ulcer. In the past two other friends nearly died of bleeding from a stomach and an esophageal ulcer.
Literally horse medicine
https://www.pbsanimalhealth.com/products/aspireze-plus-aspirin-granules-horses?sku=14516-1&msclkid=c52162778a23101160100311a5b51ded
New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy is threatening to blow up New York City's congestion pricing plan that would hike tolls in midtown and lower Manhattan.
Jerksey governor objects to making it harder for New Jerksey to rid itself of New Jerksians, if even for just the workday.
Ga is asking the DoJ to investigate Fulton County for shredding election documents.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/georgia-asks-doj-investigate-largest-county-over-alleged-destruction
AG Garland: FOOLS! THAT IS WHAT WE DEMANDED THEY DO!
Merrick Garland is just a moderately more competent Cobra Commander.
It's Raffensbarger harumphing loudly in order to protect his phoney-baloney job.
Did anyone ever check how many of the volunteers stayed in Georgia for 30 days after the election?
Ha!
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1447240304084594688
Australian police show up at someone’s doorstep to question him about his social media posts
Wait until they see his google searches.
"Harden the fuck up."
High school student arrested for refusing to wear a mask.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/landonmion/2021/10/10/high-school-student-arrested-for-refusing-to-adhere-to-mask-mandate-n2597222
That is in Wyoming? If Wyoming has mask mandates then the world is full of hope.
Hope for authoritarian tyranny.
You must be a new parody poster.
"Laramie High School's mask mandate is in place until Oct. 15, at which time school officials will decide if it will be extended."
Yeah, that's already been decided.
What do you call a man who wears a dress?
If you call a dog's tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have?
Is he excited?
"Se, uh, SIX!!"
So a dog's an insect if he drinks the Funky Cold Medina?
Funky Cold Medina--Tone Loc
https://youtu.be/63ZIf2H9S0E
Greg Abbott?
What do you call a TDS-addled asshole who tried his best to get Biden elected?
Brandyshit
Only in his cups, maybe. He wouldn't dare identify as an actual birthing person, lest he be hoisted by his own petard with the Texas Anti-Abortion Law.
WTF is wrong with you?
A Scotsman.
A true Scotsman.
A True Scotsman did'neigh have sugar on porridge, Laddie. He has the cereal formerly known as:
Raisins, Rice, and Rye
https://youtu.be/2HnUSJfL870
Here's another telly ad, b'gora! The wee one got some age on him, prolly from dallyin' with Scots fillies!
Raisins, Rice, and Rye
https://youtu.be/9K17CqZEEMU
Doesn’t sound as bad as haggis.
I remember it well. it was a pretty good cereal while it lasted. I miss it along with Quaker Corn Bran.
Your mom?
A man. Duh.
Hitler?
One of the parents arrested at a Loudon County school board meeting is the father of a girl sexually assaulted in a bathroom by a male student wearing a skirt.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/loudoun-county-schools-tried-to-conceal-sexual-assault-against-daughter-in-bathroom-father-says
Womyn can't rape. It is known.
Prosecutors, on the anti parent FB group, sought jail time... for the parent.
Fight For Schools
@fightforschools
Replying to @fightforschools
The county prosecutor, @biberajbb, who has a personal relationship with many LCPS school board members pushed for jail time for Smith even though she ran on a platform of ending “mass incarceration”
Woke authoritarian cunts gotta cunt.
She said MASS incarceration...not SPECIFICALLY TARGETED incarceration.
Let's not leave out what this creep supposedly did, that the school board and the radical leftists on the FB group wanted to hide:
Juvenile records are sealed, but Smith’s attorney Elizabeth Lancaster told The Daily Wire that a boy was charged with two counts of forcible sodomy, one count of anal sodomy, and one count of forcible fellatio, related to an incident that day at that school.
Never forget that the left will White Knight actual rapists if they conform to the current left-liberal status quo.
Let's go Brandon chant is global. Rome breaks out the chant.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/going-global-protesters-in-rome-chant-f-joe-biden
The fascists were chanting that shit you dumb as dirt mfer.
https://www.politico.eu/article/forza-nuova-italy-coronavirus-vaccination-protest-rome-neo-fascist-groups-italy-ban/
Lol. You think everything not left are neo nazis.
Just for the record, fascism is left wing.
Germany: National Socialist German Workers' Party
Italy: Italian Fascism opposed liberalism, especially classical liberalism, which Fascist leaders denounced as "the debacle of individualism"
And your article makes no mention of the chant. Good work sullum.
If we didn't have a definition of "stupid" already, we could simply point at shitlord.
"Mussolini's granddaughter was elected to a city council in the same country as the protests, so everyone was a fascist" - t. Politico
Fuck off with your dishonest WEF agitprop, Stroozle.
Give Lord a break. FDR greatly admired Mussolini.
Can you list the fascist links to their political platform?
Make sure to show the notarized membership cards.
https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/
Progressives are pretty much America's Fascists.
Note that I am not comparing them to Nazis which is not the same thing as fascism.
"Let's go Brandon" is one of the funniest things I've seen in a long time. I really hope it continues to be a thing for as long as Biden is in office.
Pretty sure the DOJ will be calling it terrorism before then.
I had to search for the meme. The poor announcer -- this is kind of hilarious.
The left now thinks it is terrorism for unionized employees to object to the behavior of major corporations.
https://twitter.com/PalmerReport/status/1447267463377326086
This attempt by unvaccinated Southwest airline employees at crippling U.S. air travel is the latest reminder that it’s a very short distance from anti-vaxxer to domestic terrorist.
Unions do NOT exist to represent their members, silly.
As I said, the new New Left. Labor is the enemy.
Work is oppression!
"...the new New Left. Labor is the enemy."
Yet the Democrats will still win elections after this, telling a large part of their voting bloc to go fuck themselves.
"How do the Globetrotters keep doing it!?"
Anybody want to check his views on the Wisconsin teachers doing the identical thing several years back?
A cancelled flight isn’t terrorism.
"Take this shot or you can't work"
"Ok, I quit then"
"TERRORIST!"
Clownworld is the radical left parroting the same talking points as the people who shot commie miners 110 years ago.
Shutting down the freeways with mobs of pedestrians is just free speech though.
Don’t forget the mostly peaceful burning down of buildings.
Recent documents show CIA wanted to assassinate Assange and link him to Russia.
https://mises.org/wire/cia-has-stultified-american-consciences
It's OK; the CIA is now working for the Dems.
Because of course they did.
I honestly can't spot the difference between the KGB and its American counterparts anymore.
In WWII the precurser of the CIA actually did work with Russian agents and i don't think they ever stopped
I honestly can’t spot the difference between the KGB and its American counterparts anymore.
Borderline competent v. borderline inepts. If it were the KGB, Assange would be dead, a significant portion of the citizenry would be convinced he was in kahoots with Western Imperialists, and the international community would suspect, but be unable to prove that Russia killed him.
Assassinated with covid.
Global Minimum Tax - What is Really Happening
Over the last several months, there has been a lot of news about Biden’s negotiations with OECD countries towards getting a Global Minimum Tax in place. While the Biden administration *claims* that this is all part of their effort to force tax-dodging corporations to pay their fair share, you really need to understand that this is yet ANOTHER bail out for elite businesses- in this case, big Tech Companies.
This is not obvious from reporting, but in fact, the Global Minimum Tax is being offered as an ALTERNATIVE to Digital Services Taxes that have been established by other countries in an attempt to syphon revenue off of companies like Facebook, Twitter, and Google. These DSTs tax Google for doing things like linking to articles, online advertising, etc. Don’t get me wrong- these are pretty terrible taxes, often used to bail out competitors in these countries. But there is no doubt that these taxes target a couple of (American) companies for tax revenue. It was so egregious that the US was about to slap tariffs on countries like France for Cosmetics in retaliation.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/business/talks-remove-digital-taxes-should-end-tariff-risks-us-treasury-officials-2238591
What the Global Minimum Tax is actually doing is removing a host of DSTs from Big Tech Companies, and broadening the tax base to more large multinational companies. Countries like Ireland, Hungary and Estonia that have low corporate tax rates will increase their minimum tax to 15% (for multinationals, not for local or smaller companies). It will also ensure that all large companies with more than 10% profit margin (i.e. tech companies that aren’t as big as Facebook and Google) ALSO pay taxes to these countries.
In fact, some countries like UK admit that this will bring in less tax revenue than maintaining their DSTs, which goes to show that this is really helping Big Tech. It is only the threat of Tariffs and the promise that the US will allow the Pillar 1 (extending taxes to all tech companies not just big tech) that is making this go through.
Once again, it is interesting to see how populist claims of “making THEM pay their fair share” really end up being about protecting certain big, entrenched interests.
Don't care; fuck woke big business.
At the same time, 'global tax' triggers my 'buy more bullets' instinct.
Woke Big Business is exactly who is trying to get something like this enacted. Think they won't be exempted? Or better able to shoulder the burden than a nascent upstart?
Um, as if businesses "pay" taxes.
Big tech continues to reap huge benefits for assisting the junta's coup. I guess that $500 billion bonus in the spending bill for "R&D" wasn't the only loyalty reward Team (D) is handing out.
Not ratified in congress. 2024 president should say fuck off and lower it below.
They'll never get two-thirds of the Senate to ratify this, but the bigger issue may be the campaign issue it creates.
Biden might as well be trying to get us to join the EU!
If the Trump administration taught us anything, it’s that Democrat presidents can enact policy through EO, but Republican presidents can’t undo them with the same.
A Republican President needs to present ALL of these abhorrent deals to the Senate and demand passage or their demise. Make Senate approve the Iran nuke deal, this global minimum tax, the climate accords, et al. Or, failing that, they are no longer possessing any legitimacy whatsoever.
If you can join without Congress, you can leave without Congress.
But not having any Congressional input is how these idiotic things keep being put back whenever a Democrat is in office. If the Senate shoots these down, it'd be a super easy lawsuit to say "They are trying to enact a defeated treaty"
*If the Senate shoots these down*
Also, rescinding DACA should've been a super easy lawsuit.
Biden just removed sanctions on Iranian missiles as Iran is now openly close to creating enough material for a nuclear weapon.
https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2021/10/08/Iran-nuclear-sanctions-Mammut/4021633713581/
I welcome Saudi's impending membership in the Nuclear Club...
Going to be tough to stuff that toothpaste back into the tube.
Corporations colluding to fix prices: Bad.
Whole countries doing the same: Good.
By sticking his nose into the affairs of private businesses, Abbott is setting up a potential conflict with some of his state's biggest employers, including Southwest Airlines and American Airlines—both of which are based in Texas and recently told employees to get the shot if they want to keep their jobs.
Go fuck yourself. These companies are not freely implementing the mandates, they are pressured by the feds.
The fact reason appears equally of not more outraged at government protecting individual freedoms than it does allowing federal government to mandate against said freedoms. And over a vaccine that is mostly shit as it doesn't prevent spread.
Freedom is slavery.
None of those decisions should require the coercive efforts of state or federal officials.
Instead use the collusive efforts of industry at the behest of feds!
Reasom for fascism?
It's the standard Democratic operating procedure for evading the constitution. They've been pulling it with social media censorship too.
They make all these big promises and threats of unconstitutional, authoritarian action until the companies start implementing what they want in anticipation, and then they don't do it. The companies, being lemmings, all start doing it once the herd leaders do (best practices, industry standards).
That way they achieve what they want, but they don't have to worry about court rulings declaring their actions illegal or unconstitutional, and throwing out their achievement.
And Eric applauds along like a retarded seal.
Greg Abbott Bans Private Businesses From Mandating Vaccines for Workers
That's right ENB. Following federal vaccine mandates was the businesses personal wish.
And a reminder that vaccine mandates are anti-libertarian and authoritarian even if it's a business forcing it.
Boehm, the other open fascist. Not ENB
"Texas Gov. Greg Abbott issued an executive order on Monday banning any entity in the state—including private businesses—from requiring that workers or customers show proof of having been vaccinated against COVID-19."
Well, I guess we now know for sure where Abbott stands on property rights and the right-to-associate (or not associate).
He prefers the rights of the individual. Are you really going to claim business is not being pressured by the feds over these mandates??
"He prefers the rights of the individual. Are you really going to claim business is not being pressured by the feds over these mandates??"
Jesse: Individuals, generally-speaking, should not be mandated by the government to wear a mask or get a jab.
Businesses are owned and operated by individuals, and they should be free, generally speaking, from government restrictions, to do business with, or not to do business with, those they choose.
When we open them up to not do business with sexual orientation et al...we can then discuss HIPAA violating demands for medical info.
"...we can then discuss HIPAA violating demands for medical info."
This has nothing to do with HIPAA.
"...HIPAA privacy rules generally do not directly affect employers unless they are a “covered entity” as defined under HIPAA. Covered entities typically include health plans, health care clearinghouses, and most health care providers."
https://laborandemploymentlawupdate.com/2018/07/30/basics-of-the-hipaa-privacy-rule-for-employers/
But they're not, so fuck off with your simping for totalitarians
Totalitarians have several things in common --- one is using arbitrary rules to control the behavior of individuals. Biden's mandates are unconstitutional and wrong. Abbot's mandates may (or may not) be legal under law, but they are just as wrong.
And large market corporations colluding together to push equal limitations on liberty is also just as wrong.
You are missing that part.
"And large market corporations colluding together to push equal limitations on liberty is also just as wrong.
You are missing that part."
And here I thought we were talking about Abbot and Biden.
There are hundreds of thousands of pages written about totalitarianism. Surely you didn't expect me to address them all in one short post?
Yes, you are now trying to backtrack the extension of your argument because you now realize it is a losing argument.
Are you going to deny that large corporations and federal government colludes? Why are you so insistent at individual rights being trumped at the corporate level?
right-to-associate (or not associate).
Libertarians are for the upholding of rights against any collective or collusive force, not just government. If you don't agree with that statement, then you think a fascist state is perfectly aligned with libertarianism. And I doubt you think that.
"Are you going to deny that large corporations and federal government colludes? "
I am not denying that it can, and, in some circumstances such collusion does exist. What to do? Depend on the government to solve it? A losing proposition if ever there was one.
Of course we could break up large corporations. That would mean breaking up the corporations which manufacture cars, trains, jet-liners, and a whole bunch of the stuff we depend on during our everyday life.
How about this:
End crony capitalism by shrinking the federal budget to the bare minimum necessary to
1) provide for the common defense (not including foreign entanglements)
2) maintain a court system to enforce individual rights, treaties, and settle interstate disputes
That covers most of it.
“How about this:
End crony capitalism by shrinking the federal budget to the bare minimum necessary to
1) provide for the common defense (not including foreign entanglements)
2) maintain a court system to enforce individual rights, treaties, and settle interstate disputes
That covers most of it.”
Sounds great. In the mean time, in the real world, I’m for a state Governor telling corporations not to do what the federal government is coercing them to do, if it is on the side of individual liberty.
What RMac said. If the government is going to issue a rule against corporations that maintains liberty for an individual, that is the type of rule government should enforce from a libertarian perspective.
If a company or corporation is violating contract law, you would expect the government to uphold the individual's claims for contract, would you not?
Businesses are owned and operated by individuals
Most of the business being discussed aren't single owner LLCs.
They're publicly traded multinational corporations with elections and an executive branch, shareholder/citizens and a board/senate/judiciary. They're another form of government and hold at least as much power as many large municipalities.
Twenty-first century libertarianism needs to recognize that what constitutes government isn't just limited to entities holding land.
This.
It's beginning to look like people have been convinced soft fascism isn't that bad under the guise of "muh private business!!" when they aren't private, they are publicly traded entities. And they also collude with government and with each other.
Liberty should always be maximized at the individual level, not at the group level.
The writers here, and the people who fund them are not interested in actual liberty. They are interested in the imposition of their preferred outcomes in the guise of 'liberty.'
Whether the imposition is by government or government license matters not one iota to them.
"Businesses are owned and operated by individuals"
And all that MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer needs to do, is to call them "corporatists", and then THAT will justify MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer and Her Followers (Queen of the Echo Chamber that She is) to take over their properties!
Hail Marxism! Right, MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer?
Oberführer Sqrlsy, Reichsminister of Retard Propaganda deliberately misconstrues shit again.
Fuck you, Sqrlsy, you psychotic Nazi shill.
MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer has REPEATEDLY called enemies "corporatists", and used this excuse to have Government Almighty take over more and more of their property rights, NEVER imagining that all of these new pussy-grabbing powers would EVER come right back to haunt MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer, when Her enemies exercise these new powers! Jesus-Killer bitch (AKA Echo Chamber Queen) imagines Herself to be IMMUNE to being pussy-grabbed right back atcha!
MarxistMammaryBahnFuhrer the Jesus-Killer is TOO STUPID (and arrogant) to see this simple truth! And don't LIE about it, bitch! We've read your stupid shit over and over again!
Look up what corporatism means you retarded puppet. It's the opposite of what you think.
I think this goes too far. Regardless of how much market power a company has, if they do not have a monopoly on force, they are not a government.
That isn't to say that a company cannot be criticized for decisions that seem immoral (like censorship of ideas or forcing healthcare choices on their employees). But in cases where we are asking government to force a company to do something it wouldn't otherwise do, I just don't think there is a moral case for "Hey it's a big company, they are essentially a government."
That said, this is a different situation. We have the federal government actually coercing a business, and a state government did the only thing it can to oppose that coercion.
And all THAT said, libertarianism *does* need an answer for what is essentially becoming a fascist evolution of business. We aren't talking about rent-seeking corporations currying favor with the government (what we would normally call Crony Capitalism). No we are talking about the Government and Private sector increasingly being run by The Party. And I am not just talking, "hey they are all Democrats." Instead I am talking about high level operatives of the party determining the policy of both groups in concert.
if they do not have a monopoly on force, they are not a government
Counties and municipalities don't have a monopoly on force, but they are definitely governments.
They do have a monopoly on force in their jurisdiction. There are specific areas where they share with the Federal Government, but other areas where the federal government specifically cannot interfere. For example, the FBI cannot pull you over for a traffic violation.
See, here in Canada that gets fuzzier. In Ontario for instance the RCMP can pull you over for speeding in Toronto, as can the Ontario Provincial Police, as can the Toronto Police Force. Chances are the Mounties and OPP won't be working Toronto streets, but it's possible.
In much of Canada the RCMP constitutes federal, provincial and municipal forces.
Government takes a lot of different forms, and just because it isn't happening a certain way in the US, doesn't mean it's not government.
This is still a far cry from having the legal ability to coerce you. A large, pervasive company does not have that ability. Even if it can limit your choices and work with its buddies to not sell to you, they cannot force you to do something.
Again, I think that there is a line in there somewhere for us to talk about Fascism. At some point, the government and corporations are lead by a cabal of leaders who are essentially on the same team. At that point, drawing the line between what is coerced and what is just a crappy set of choices becomes very difficult.
A large, pervasive company does not have that ability.
They totally do within their mandate, exactly like a municipality.
large businesses now have graft and influence from large government contracts and are implementing government policy through corporate policy.
Why are you putting the rights of a corporation over the rights of an individual? Can a corporation mandate slavery next?
Liberty requires individualized liberty. When forces gather in large market forces to collude or limit said liberty, they are doing the same things as a government does, restricting freedoms.
Don't be tricked into thinking Fascism is the preferred flavor of authoritarianism.
"Can a corporation mandate slavery next?"
[Looks at prior Libertarian papers defending Indentured Servitude, coughs, and tries to change the subject...]
"See, Jesse! It's not reeeeeealy slavery, because..."
Indentured Servitude is actually an interesting argument. But in this case it would be all travel agencies only allowing travel based on those contracts.
Well, I guess we now know for sure where Abbott stands on property rights and the right-to-associate (or not associate).
Are they being forced to hire the unvaccinated or just being blocked from voiding contracts they have with people who choose not to get vaccinated after the fact?
"Are they being forced to hire the unvaccinated or just being blocked from voiding contracts they have with people who choose not to get vaccinated after the fact?"
You tell me:
'"No entity in Texas can compel receipt of a COVID-19 vaccine by any individual, including an employee or a consumer, who objects to such vaccination for any reason of personal conscience, based on a religious belief, or for medical reasons, including prior recovery from COVID-19," the order reads. "I hereby suspend all relevant statutes to the extent necessary to enforce this prohibition."'
Reads as a 'No' to me. You're free to ask someone up front if they'd get vaccinated and choose not to employ them if they refuse, which is in line with drug screens and a noted departure from an applicant who has HIV.
https://twitter.com/JesseKellyDC/status/1447577522481344518
Tire shop has the Today Show on. I’m watching a black millionaire host of the show interview black billionaire Michael Jordan about black millionaire NASCAR driver Bubba Wallace.
The subject: America’s racism.
That’s just...
...racist?
Bubba Wallace
Wasn't that the guy that claimed to have been the target of racist harassment but it turned out he wasn't? Couldn't they find a better example of America's racism than something that never happened?
Adam Carolla made a good documentary about NASCAR's first black driver, Willie T. Ribbs..
Uppity
https://chassy.com/shop/uppity-the-willy-t-ribbs-story/#tab-description
He faced actual racism at a time when actual racism was still a thing ... And it still wasn't as horrifying as Today wants to pretend that current NASCAR drivers face.
Worth a watch.
Never heard of the guy. Sounds like a cool story.
I would rather it have been done by the Texas legislature. I do not like rule by executive order.
I would rather it not be done at all. Private businesses can determine their own employment criteria without interference by Bigly State. My gawd, it's like FDR's New Deal all over again.
My gawd, it’s like FDR’s New Deal all over again.
No, we'd be putting Zoomers up in tarpaper shacks and tents to freeze their asses off in the winter while they completed public works projects if that was the case.
And the retard fascists come out.
Zero businesses did this prior to Biden's announcement. Zero.
"I would rather it not be done at all. Private businesses can determine their own employment criteria without interference by Bigly State. My gawd, it’s like FDR’s New Deal all over again."
How are states opposing federal regulation like the New Deal?
Abbott is not opposing federal regulation, he is instead imposing rules on private businesses. Learn the difference. Abbott is disallowing a private Texas business to require vaccinations for its own voluntary at-will employees.
Abbott is disallowing a FEDERAL mandate from taking place.
Fucking hell, do you not see the difference? The Feds INITITATED the situation. This is a response.
Cannot whine about how you crave freedom when you oppose any means, at all, to oppose federal over reach.
The proper response is to oppose the Federal mandate without imposing mandates of one's own. Abbott is imposing and equal and opposite mandate. That may play well to the base that can only think in term of black and white, but it's not the appropriate response.
Feds: Mandatory seatbelts in cars.
Abbott: Ban on seatbelts in cars.
Feds: Mandatory motorcycle helmets.
Abbott: Ban on motorcycle helmets.
Feds: Mandatory overtime pay.
Abbott: Ban on any overtime pay.
See the difference?
So brandy thinks the proper response is to just tuck tail and accept government over reach. States be damned.
You agree with the first mandate, that's why you are a leftist brandy.
He is an idiot. Texas is an 'at will' state. Employers can fire or not hire the unvaccinated if they so choose. What they can't do is get out of their contracts with the unvaccinated for benefits and unemployment insurance by saying the termination was for cause or the employee's voluntary choice.
Idiot.
“I would rather it not be done at all. Private businesses can determine their own employment criteria without interference by Bigly State. My gawd, it’s like FDR’s New Deal all over again.”
----Brandybuck
You said that unironically about about Abbot, right?
Right.
Here's the real New Deal shit:
"President Joe Biden announced last month that all businesses with more than 100 employees would be required to mandate vaccines for their workers (or conduct weekly tests), with the Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) enforcing the mandate. Biden's mandate continues to be a massive overreach of executive authority."
----Elizabeth Nolan Brown
ENB is pointing to this link:
https://reason.com/2021/09/09/president-joe-biden-vaccine-mandate-announcement/
I think you're being willfully delusional. Somewhere along the line, you seem to have lost the plot completely. You're not just somewhere to the left of ENB. You're somewhere to the left of reality.
Again, the libertarian response to a federal vaccine mandate is NOT a ban on employers requiring vaccines.
Abbott should have said Texas would not enforce the Federal mandate. Period.
You're simply not a libertarian.
You're right. The libertarian response to federal mandates is to write a mealy-mouthed article that only kind of opposes it, and call it principled resistance. Bullshit.
The only appropriate use of government force is to secure the rights of individuals. The federal government violated individuals' right to choose, and the state government is using it's monopoly on force to defend against that.
The federal government violated individuals’ right to choose, and the state government is using it’s monopoly on force to defend against that.
NO IT IS NOT.
The federal government violated individuals' right to choose, and the state government is using its monopoly on force to violate individuals' right to choose IN ANOTHER WAY.
BOTH are violating individuals' rights. Why is this so hard to see?
Tribals can't see it. For tribals all that matters is that Abbott is their tribe. There is no underlying ideology of philosophy, it's all about us versus them.
That sort of self soothing may help you feel better about yourself.
But it doesn't make it remotely meaningful in any other context.
You keep using this comment in response to Jeff agreeing with you. The irony.
BOTH are violating individuals’ rights. Why is this so hard to see?
You fuckwits are the ones refusing to see.
Under the federal mandate, if an employee refuses to vaccinate or test, they will be fired. Otherwise, the employer will be fined by OSHA, if not completely shut down, which OSHA has the authority to do for repeated violations.
Under Abbotts mandate, employers can still fire employees for refusing to vaccinate or test, they just can't mandate it and thereby escape their contractual obligation to employees for benefits and unemployment insurance.
The employer's choice is not limited under Abbott's mandate. They are just accountable for that choice.
Fuck you Brandy. Fuck you Jeffy.
^thank you
Liberaltarians support corporations violating contracts if the government “suggests” they do it.
It's hard to see because it's a bullshit figment of your TDS addled fever brain?
Again, the perfect solution fallacy is a fallacy. When the perfect solution isn't one of the options, you go with the best one available. The legitimate purpose of government is to protect our rights, and if the Abbot is using the state government to protect people's rights from the federal government, that may be the best available option.
If you wouldn't interfere with the operation of the holocaust trains--in the name of libertarianism because they're privately owned--you're not being principled. You're being irrational per the perfect solution fallacy.
The legalization of recreational marijuana is the libertarian position--even if doing so means it's regulated by the government and sold by government licensed sellers. There isn't anything principled about the perfect solution fallacy. Perpetrating it just means you're being stupid.
Again, the perfect solution fallacy is a fallacy.
The false choice fallacy is also a fallacy.
We are not forced to choose only between mandates of one type, and mandates of another type.
Tell that to all the corporations that mandated the vaccine immediately after Biden told them the feds were going to force them to.
Texas isn't being asked to enforce the federal mandate, so your suggestion would conveniently do nothing to protect the victims of government overreach.
This is dumb even for you.
Not a Texan so I don't know for sure, but doesn't the Texas legislature only meet for one month every year? Would it be more acceptable in the light of Texans and Texas businesses getting reamed by the federal government's vaccine mandate for months before the Texas legislature even begins to discuss it?
140 days every two years. They're off, the other 690 days or so. They can be called back, for a "Special Session," which they've done this year. They're on their third consecutive one so far. The flight by the Democratic members to deny quorum caused some of the issues, redistricting fighting is accounting for the rest.
Short version, the Lege practically can't be called to deal with this for another year and a half. Which would be too late.
You know who else issued executive orders because he didn't want to wait for the legislature to act?
Being crazy enough to read the article, I see Abbott has added passing corresponding legislation to the agenda of the upcoming special session of the legislature.
I notice Babbling Biden is NOT adding his press release mandate to the congressional agenda.
Why use legislation when you can use alphabet agency rule making, which carries the force of law, without all the yucky voting and political consequences?
He’s not even issuing an actual EO, because that could be challenged in court. He’s ruling by threats.
There actually _was_ plenty of cause to complain about Gov. Abbott last year, when he issued a decree banning medical treatment for anyone who didn't have a life-threatening injury or a mild repiratory illness. I don't remember Reason saying anything about that, though.
Yup. Wheels is a principled weathervane, and he's noticed how the winds in Texas have changed on this.
I'll still take a shitty guy doing the right thing for venal reasons.
"a shitty guy doing the right thing for venal reasons"
That's the best we can expect from the vast majority of all politicians.
And two good band names....
Shitty Guy
Venal Reasons
Once upon a time, in a time long long ago, Republicans were against big government (unless it was military arm of government). Nowadays Republican governors like Abbott presume what voluntary arrangements private businesses can and cannot have.
The era of Bi-Partisan Bigly Government is here, and Republicans are waving its flag. Everyone cheering Abbott on needs to be slowly fed into the industrial woodchippers.
Once upon a time, in a time long long ago, Republicans were against big government (unless it was military arm of government). Nowadays Republican governors like Abbott presume what voluntary arrangements private businesses can and cannot have.
Telling the feds to fuck off when they overreach in to private business is as non-big government as it comes. Given your connections to the hypocrites in Silicon Valley, though, it's hardly surprising that this is your take.
Some people have internalized the progressive narrative so thoroughly, they can't even think straight. If Biden ordered us all bussed to FEMA camps for reeducation under threat of arrest, some of these people would oppose Abbot prohibiting private companies from taking us on their busses--in the name of libertarianism.
Individuals own and invest in private businesses. To treat the rights of business owners as lesser than any other individual’s rights is tantamount to making the case for rent control or eviction moratoriums.
I just used logic there, Ken.
No...you did not.
If the Feds demand something be done...what, previsely, should a governor do? Just go along?
The governor should say, "no business in this state need comply". But that's NOT what he's saying. He is ordering businesses to do the exact opposite and NOT require vaccinations.
You assume the core philosophical issue here is vaccination. It's not. Not even close. The core philosophical issues are individual liberty and freedom of association. The governor has no moral authority to tell any business what to do or not to do.
That his order is in opposition to Biden does NOT mean it's a good order. The world is not a set set of stark binary choices. Sometimes the correct response is None of the Above, or a Pox on Both Your Houses. Get that tribalism out of your head, it's damaging your brain.
What you propose would not stop the federal government from penalizing companies that did not comply.
So, it’s better for Abbot and Biden to turn private businesses into pawns, like two parents using the kids to get at each other in a divorce?
Hey, what about letting the businesses sue OSHA if they feel they are being over-regulated?
The individual's rights are being violated by federal mandate and the courts are refusing to step in, so yes in fine with another level of government stepping in and saying no fed you can't do that.
The individual’s rights are being violated by federal mandate and the courts are refusing to step in, so yes in fine with another level of government stepping in and saying no fed you can’t do that.
Note how these guys try to employ Alinsky's rules and strawmen in their argumentation here. "You're a libertarian that hates government, so you can't push back against Biden's overreach by supporting the state telling Biden to fuck off! Any support of any government action is hypocritical!"
They sound exactly like the shitlibs who chortle "Somalia!" whenever a libertarian doesn't act like an an-cap.
so you can’t push back against Biden’s overreach by supporting the state telling Biden to fuck off
If ALL ABBOTT DID was to "tell Biden to fuck off" then no one here would be raising a fuss. But he didn't. He issued his OWN mandate. Biden is depriving individuals of their rights by mandating vaccines. Abbott is depriving individuals of their rights by mandating that employers cannot require vaccines even if they want to of their own free will. That is beyond "telling Biden to fuck off".
If ALL ABBOTT DID was to “tell Biden to fuck off” then no one here would be raising a fuss. But he didn’t. He issued his OWN mandate.
And now Biden can figure out how he will respond to that. So there's really nothing for you to be crying about here.
Besides, didn't you say in this very comment section that businesses could take Biden's vaccine mandate to the courts if they didn't like it? What's to stop businesses from doing the same thing with Abbott's mandate?
Face it, you're only crying about this because a right-winger did it.
“saying no fed you can’t do that”
That’s not what Abbott did. He went beyond that.
Several other red state governors are taking more practical steps.
Except Biden didn’t actually sign the EO, he just threatened to do so, so there’s nothing to actually challenge in court.
Libertarians for rule by threat from the executive!
Red Rocks White Privilege
October.12.2021 at 1:25 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
Besides, didn’t you say in this very comment section that businesses could take Biden’s vaccine mandate to the courts if they didn’t like it? What’s to stop businesses from doing the same thing with Abbott’s mandate?
Again, they can’t actually take Biden to court because it’s not an actual mandate, it’s just a threat that they’re trying to get ahead of.
Texas can assert that it will not enforce any such federal mandate. Done. Without that the feds can't do much at all. If they try to force the issue by sending in troops, then we deal with that when it happens. But the feds are NOT going to sending in troops. More likely they would send in lawyers exactly like they're going to do anyway. If they do send in troops, then we deal with that when it happens. No need for secession and martial law until that happens. There is literally no need to fight fascism with fascism.
This isn't some hypothetical. The feds already do with with pot legalization. They try to ignore legalization, but when 99 out of 100 criminal activities involving pot are under state jurisdiction, all the feds can do is whine. Sure, someone here or there gets hurt by it, but far far less people get hurt than by acquiescing to the feds.
Refusing to enforce federal overreach at the state level is a pretty damned powerful tool. There is no need to fight fascism with fascism.
You do realize the federal government doesn't need Texas's help to enforce this mandate. They'll just fine anyone who doesn't turn over whatever proof they demand. Seriously you've failed to make one suggestion for what Texas could do to perfect anyone from the federal government's overreach.
“You do realize the federal government doesn’t need Texas’s help to enforce this mandate.”
Another one of the “Is he being ignorant or dishonest” questions for our resident lefties. I think we need a good name for this eternal question.
Brandybuck, thanks for trying to be reasonable!
Being reasonable with the unreasonable people, sad to say, doesn't go very far... In their minds, one branch of Government Almighty over-reach is ALWAYS to be answered by MY tribe grabbing some (supposedly opposed, counter-acting) over-reach! "My tribe's lies leading to violence against your tribe GOOD! Your tribe's lies leading to violence against my tribe BAD!"
A VERY utterly ancient (and very utterly EVIL!) curse on the human race, this is! So... BURN the witches, and the Demon-Crap vote-thieves! Burn them NOW!!!
http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/ and http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Do_Gooders_Bad/
God damn you’re actually getting dumber.
These are not voluntary arrangements.
You have so internalized the populist narrative that you can think straight. There's a governor regulating employment criteria for private businesses, and you somehow think that's freedom from FEMA camp buses? What the fuck? Did Trump drop you on your head as a child?
The proper libertarian response should be: No government vaccine mandates, no government vaccine anti-mandate. Biden shouldn't be mandating vaccines on private employers, but neither should Abbott be forbidding vaccine requirements for employment in a private firm. It should be solely up to the firm itself.
The enemy of your enemy is not always your libertarian friend. Heck, most of the time he's your enemy too. In the choice between Stalin and Hitler, I choose None of the Above.
Biden shouldn’t be mandating vaccines on private employers, ….
But he did, and a response was required to stop it.
and a response was required to stop it.
Why should this response come from the state government?
Businesses are free to sue OSHA in court on their own.
So now you are for businesses enduring costs over lawsuits? Aren't you adamantly for 230 protecting SV from lawsuits?
Jeff, a hypocrite? Can’t be.
Large companies are not generally interested in making principled legal stands. Their legal departments exist to keep them out of trouble, not to stir shit up.
I don't love anything about the situation, but absent an effective corporate response, which I think is extremely unlikely, who else is going to challenge this? Individuals, maybe. But I think you would probably have to get fired before you have any standing to challenge the rule.
Even then, dishonest fucks in the judicial branch would claim that individuals have no standing because the mandate was for businesses not individuals.
Again, no one can sue OSHA because they haven’t actually done anything yet. Biden just threatened it.
Yep, but if a business doesn't comply now, once OSHA creates the rule they will be punished for not complying at the time the memo was sent out.
jeffy doesn't know fuck-all about OSHA. You have x days to pay the fines or they shut down your business. If you don't correct the violations, they fine you again. Or they shut down your business. You can appeal, but the fines must be paid or they won't consider it.
Court is not really an option.
"Why should this response come from the state government?"
It is insane to me that certain people just can't get excited about a national vaccine mandate or a mandate that kids stick needles in their arms- but they will make post after post condemning someone who bans those mandates.
Why, it's almost as if they really never opposed the mandates at all...or are only here to criticize the right. Bizarre.
He is countermanding Biden's vaccine mandate.
If that were so, Abbott’s mandate would only apply to businesses with 100 or more employees.
Also, he could wait until the OSHA mandate actually happens. You were the person the other day commenting that you though Biden’s plan may be to never actually do the OSHA mandate.
Also, he could wait until the OSHA mandate actually happens.
Why bother waiting to tell the Feds to fuck off?
Dee favors rule by threats of future action from the king.
-1
"The proper libertarian response should be: No government vaccine mandates, no government vaccine anti-mandate."
Right, but the perfect solution isn't one of the options in the real world--especially not after Biden imposed a vaccine mandate.
https://yandoo.wordpress.com/2013/12/10/perfect-solution-fallacy/
So, as libertarians we aren’t allowed to criticize all the imperfections in Abbott’s actions?
If it is an attempt to smokescreen for the draconian promised mandates by Biden, it isn’t libertarian.
You’re not a libertarian, you’re a shill for Democrats.
"The proper libertarian response should be: No government vaccine mandates, no government vaccine anti-mandate."
Then the proper libertarian response is weak and ineffective, because that's not the situation we are in.
Vax mandates are not voluntary actions by employers. They are being undertaken under pressure from impending federal mandates. The only correct and appropriate use of the government monopoly on force is to secure the constitutional rights of individuals.
You are ASSUMING that all of these businesses imposing vaccine mandates on their own property are only doing so under duress from the feds. What if that assumption is not true, at least for 100% of the businesses? What about those businesses that really do want to require that their employees get vaccinated and would choose to do so even if the government had not issued any mandate? Don't those employers also have property rights to decide how they may choose to use their property?
At what point did "secure the rights of individuals" get changed to mean "abrogate the property rights of individuals"?
Then they would be unaffected because all their employees would have been vaccinated or fired before biden's mandate can into play. A business who puts in place a requirement for vaccines the day after Biden ordered OSHA to make it a federal requirement is not operating under their own free will. Seriously your basically arguing that people who pay the mob protection money are acting under their own free will and not threat.
Ken is always harping on how logical he is. Maybe he can draw a Venn diagram for you.
Caw caw!
You have so internalized the populist narrative that you can think straight.
LOL, talk about a Freudian slip.
There’s a governor regulating employment criteria for private businesses, and you somehow think that’s freedom from FEMA camp buses? What the fuck? Did Trump drop you on your head as a child?
There's a governor telling the feds to fuck off out of state business. You're crying because the feds are being told to fuck off, and making up some gobbledy-gook strawman about FEMA camps and marinating it in your TDS as copium in response to this being pointed out.
Biden shouldn’t be mandating vaccines on private employers, but neither should Abbott be forbidding vaccine requirements for employment in a private firm.
Abbott wouldn't have had bother if Biden's handlers hadn't gone full Mussolini. The more the Feds overreach, the more you'll see counter-orders like this one. You don't have to like it, but reality doesn't give a shit about what you like or not. And if this forces the courts to ultimately figure it out, then what exactly are you crying about?
The enemy of your enemy is not always your libertarian friend.
It is in this case.
There’s a governor telling the feds to fuck off out of state business WHILE AT THE SAME TIME telling those same businesses to implement HIS mandate.
The fact that you're crying about it is why it was the right thing to do.
"Not just you damn kids, but E'ERYBODY get off my lawn!" 🙂
What is about opposing federal vaccine mandates that suggests Abbot, here, is in favor of big government?
He didn't say "Biden's vaccine mandate won't be enforced", or "Texas would sue Biden in court". That would be 'opposing the mandate'.
What he did, instead, was to issue his OWN mandate that favors HIS priorities. Instead of giving companies the option to choose how they want to deal with vaccines, he is forcing them to comply with HIS mandate instead of Biden's mandate.
But … but … Abbott is on Ken’s team.
Tribalism uber alles. Hitler is against Stalin, therefore nothing Hitler does is wrong. All hail Godwin!
You made an absurd claim. You were called on it. You can't defend your claim without ignoring reality. And now you want to discuss memes with trolls.
I guess I’m supposed to be the “troll” here, even though I presented a quite cogent, logical argument against your comment’s this morning.
Not to mention pointing out that ENB didn’t write the morning roundup, which is also on point, and not trolling.
You're a troll, because you lie about your posts, such as:
even though I presented a quite cogent, logical argument against your comment’s this morning.
Your partisan trolling is a dead end.
Not an absurd claim. Opposing a government vaccine mandate does not require imposing a ban on businesses requiring vaccinations. You seem to be assuming there are only two choices, But there are at least half a dozen options here. The most libertarian of which is to allow private businesses to enact their own employment rules.
I invoked Godwin (who sometimes posts on these hallowed pages) because you seem to think that the way to fight fascism is through fascism. More government is never the appropriate libertarian response. I know you're not a libertarian, but this is a libertarian site.
"Not an absurd claim"
Your claim was that Abbot's actions were like FDR's New Deal, and that claim was absurd--in the context of Biden's mandate. Comparing a state resisting a federal imposition of labor rules to New Deal policies--which were about the federal government imposing itself on the states--is so absurd, it's hard to know where to start. A state resisting a federal mandate isn't like the New Deal at all, and the only people in this thread who need that explained to them are the trolls and you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.L.A._Schechter_Poultry_Corp._v._United_States
> Your claim was that Abbot’s actions were like FDR’s New Deal, and that claim was absurd
FDR imposed rules on business. Such as only being open for a certain number of hours, or maximum hours for employees, or whole bunch of other stuff that should be between employers and employees, without interference by presidents or governors.
What Abbott is doing is imposing rules on employers regarding what restrictions they may place on employees. As such it's very much like the National Industrial Recovery Act (aka NRA aka the heart of the New Deal).
^ Brandy, thinking he's hanging on for the full standing eight count, when he's already flat on the mat, and he is lying on the towel his corner had thrown in long before.
You calling others as tribalists when you followed Jeff then Mike is hilarious.
It may indicate that what's driving his thinking isn't facts and logic or principle.
It may be about tribalism--to him.
Texas wouldn't be granted standing to sue the usg. The federal government is going to enforce its own orders, so Texas saying it won't help wouldn't matter. So both of your given options aren't actually options to oppose federal enforced mandate.
Texas tried to sue over the election. I don't think "lack of standing" concerns really matter to them when they are seeking to make a point.
Making a point doesn't protect anyone's rights against federal over reach. The violation of individual rights is happening right this moment, and not a single person angry at Abbot has provided a viable alternate solution to stop a federal mandate being enforced on the citizens of Texas.
How about doing this:
Let those affected seek redress in the courts.
How about NOT doing this:
In response to mandates that you don't like, impose OTHER mandates that you DO like.
How about doing this:
Let those affected seek redress in the courts.
Which shitlib music clubs in Austin can also do with this directive from Abbott.
"How about doing this:
Let those affected seek redress in the courts."
Because, unfortunately, the courts allow this behavior. And before you act like that is some sort of victory, we should note that the argument you are making, when applied logically, would also mean doing away with the Civil Rights Act and Americans with Disabilities Act.
For some reason, though, you are super principled about THIS decision preventing mandates- you've already made a dozen more posts complaining about it than the actual mandates that caused this decision from Abbot- I get the feeling that you cannot get as emotionally excited about the EEEEEVIL of the CRA and ADA.
Why, it is almost as if you aren't principled at all- you are just using the principles as a smoke screen to do what you wanted to do anyways- criticize the Right.
FWIW: I do think that this decision is as wrong as the CRA and ADA...but I just can't get "excited" enough to condemn it. 😉
Actually, it’s literally not happening right this moment. The OSHA mandate hasn’t happened.
Shit man, the mob just said you had a nice business is not like they are burning your building to the ground right this millisecond. Obviously you paying them protection money has nothing to do with their threats.
Did you see Ken’s comment a day or two ago where he argued at length that Biden never intends to actually put the OSHA mandate in place?
Look up the definition of threat.
She’s too busy stalking Ken.
What he did, instead, was to issue his OWN mandate that favors HIS priorities. Instead of giving companies the option to choose how they want to deal with vaccines, he is forcing them to comply with HIS mandate instead of Biden’s mandate.
OK, as above, let's say Biden mandated that 1 in 4 college girls be raped. Abbott issuing a mandate that forbids mandatory rape on college campuses makes him just as, if not more, fascist? He should leave it up to the Universities as to whether they institue mandatory rape policies?
By their logic, yes. And the correct recourse is for individuals who are raped under the new policy, should just wait and sue the federal government.
The state should wait for people to actually start getting raped before he takes any action, and then he should sue - even though he lacks standing- "to prove a point."
That uppity negro MLK, what the fuck would he know about 'justice delayed'?
That is not at all an equivalent analogy. It would be more equivalent if, in your scenario, Abbott were to mandate not just the absence of rape, but to mandate 1 in 4 women to have consensual sex. Both are types of mandates. Consensual sex is better than nonconsensual sex, but both represent types of mandates. The better choice of action is to not mandate this particular type of behavior at all.
That is not at all an equivalent analogy. It would be more equivalent if, in your scenario, Abbott were to mandate not just the absence of rape, but to mandate 1 in 4 women to have consensual sex.
Do you really think you're convincing anyone with this stupidity?
Oh, I see. You're equating a passively-transmitted airborn virus with mandatory forcible rape. In order for that to be true, you'd have to (ignore free will, consequences, presumption of innocence, etc....) accept/assert that the vaccines are utterly useless even as a prophylactic.
You’re equating a passively-transmitted airborn virus with mandatory forcible rape.
That was your analogy, bucko.
No, my analogy was between getting forcibly injected with a 1/2" long, 22 gauge needle and getting forcibly injected with a ~6", ~0.01 gauge 'needle'.
Rape is illegal and immoral in our culture, and in nearly all cultures that have ever existed. It's the second serious crime there is.
Vaccination is not illegal, not immoral, not unethical, and certainly not a crime. Mandating vaccines is wrong, but it's simply not on the same order as mandating rape. Your analogy is beyond stupid.
As vaccines are legal and moral and efficacious and safe, there is absolutely nothing wrong with an employer requiring them of its employees.
I'm with you here. A better analogy is whether a gas station owner has a right to implement a "no smoking" policy around his pumps and propane tanks, which he does, regardless of what either Federal or State Governments say to the contrary.
Except fire has a direct cause, a direct consequence, and works indiscriminately. A gas station owner can't just fire all of his employees, smokers and non-smokers because somebody, somewhere smoked around a gas pump.
Even at that, you morons are being obviously and willfully stupid. Take the violence and mortal danger out of the equation: Biden mandates that corporations hold employees responsible for private speech on private time using private resources. Abbott issues a counter mandate saying employees can't be fired for the same. Abbott's the bigger fascist for defending free speech?
'Wet roads cause rain' wilfull self-retardation.
Rape is illegal and immoral in our culture, and in nearly all cultures that have ever existed. It’s the second serious crime there is.
Vaccination is not illegal, not immoral, not unethical, and certainly not a crime.
Willfully stupid. Not only wrong in saying that forcibly injecting someone with vaccines or semen is immaterial so long as the needle is small enough, but wrong on the concept of 'rape is immoral in nearly all cultures that ever existed'. Our current definition of rape is relatively recent and hardly set in stone.
Brandy ignores reality as he defends federal fascism.
If you really think that this episode is an example of "federal fascism" then tell us what you think ought to be done about it. Vote for Republicans? That won't change the root problem, that would only put the power of fascism in the hands of Team Red instead of Team Blue.
Trump wasn't issuing mandates. Just sayin'.
He did claim that the power to enact or discontinue lockdowns was solely his authority. He didn't enforce is, but he did claim he had the authority for it.
Yet...he did not ever do so.
BOAF SEIDZZZZZ!
If you really think that this episode is an example of “federal fascism” then tell us what you think ought to be done about it.
What the governor of Texas did.
Issuing more mandates? Taking choice away from business owners?
Nobody was choosing mandates.
That's not true, and it is presumptuous for you to decide for others what they ought to be doing with their businesses.
And, yeah, we take far more trivial choices away from businesses all the time. Want to divide your dining counter blacks on the left, whites on the right? Too fucking bad. Want to have a women's and a men's restrooms? Tough shit. Refuse to decorate a cake for a gay wedding? Eat a bag of dicks. Refuse to provide birth control to lesbian employees? Fuck off, Churchy. Forcibly subjecting your employees to medical experiments the business approves of while glancing over it's shoulder? We can't infringe on a businesses right to self-determination!
An actual libertarian would support the government action that maximizes individual liberty instead of state influence. Jeff does not do so.
the government action that maximizes individual liberty
Which is Biden's mandate? Or Abbott's mandate? Which mandate "maximizes individual liberty", Jesse? Hmm? This is a trick question, by the way.
I answered Jeff. The fact that you can not is very telling. I said in the presence of two countering mandates I will gladly support the one that maximizes individual liberty. You continue to choose the one that limits it. Because you aren't libertarian.
Fight against it Jeff. We already know you're a globalist that supports fascism. So that's why you are truly up in arms. If you were truly a libertarian you'd be railing against Biden and the federal government influence on corporations. You aren't. You support those things like a good little leftist.
Fight against it how, Jesse? What is your recommendation?
Weren't you just smcked down for using the perfect solution fallacy above?
In the presence of both mandates. Which do you choose Jeff? i will choose the one maximizing individual liberty. You?
Also, are you even mildly aware that the Abbot mandate wouldn't exist without the Biden mandate? The one you don't actually publicly opposed but are outraged at a governor focusing on individual liberty?
Fuck you with a rusty garden rake, Brandyshit.
https://twitter.com/tgeitner/status/1445461608117927938
UCHealth denies life saving treatment - kidney transplant - to El Paso County resident. See my FB live post
Misinformation! Death Panels are a Far-Right Conspiracy Theory!
I'm so tired of conspiracy theories turning out to be right.
I'm still waiting for one of them to be right.
Yes, shit like MK Ultra actually existed. But none of the claims conspiratards make about MK Ultra were actually true. Yes, shit like Operation Bluebook actually existed. But none of the claims conspiratards make about UFOs were actually true. Oswald DID assassinate Kennedy, AIDS was not a CIA plot to decimate the Black population, and terrorists DID topple the World Trade Center Towers.
I’m still waiting for one of them to be right.
Just off the top of my head:
- The wuflu came from a lab
- That laptop really was Hunter Biden's
- The FBI fabricated the entirety of the Russia Collusion hoax.
- Billionaires and large corporations conspired to Fortify the last election
- Wuflu vaccines will be mandatory
Oh, and my favorite pair:
- COVID is a dangerous, deadly disease
- COVID isn't a dangerous, deadly disease
Shadow insider conspiracies are one thing. None of those are.
That COVID-19 came from a lab is not yet definitively proven, but regardless would not be a conspiracy. The idea that COVID-19 was deliberately engineered to be a bioweapon and then deliberately released on the Chinese people IS a conspiracy theory of the nutter fringe.
The Hunter's laptop is not a conspiracy theory, it's just *some* of the media refused to report on it. Not sure what Russia collusion you're talking about, the one where they backed Trump or the one where they backed Hillary. In any case, absolutely zero evidence that Russia influenced the results in any election. Fortify the election. What the fuck does fortify even mean. If you're ragign about your guy losing the election, well that's called "democracy". That kraken's worth of evidence has never been provided. It's all nuttery all the way down. And of course, speculation on vaccine passports and mandates ahve been around since day one of the pandemic. Unfortunate, but not a conspiracy.
Get a dictionary.
The Hunter’s laptop is not a conspiracy theory, it’s just *some* of the media refused to report on it.
Nice use of the passive voice there to mask what actually happened.
Fortify the election. What the fuck does fortify even mean.
Please try and keep up.
I especially like it when unfroseeable but not unforseen or even just pointing out the contextual reframing is labeled as a conspiracy theory.
"If you continue to shorten the sides of a rectangle to make all the sides equal, it will become a square."
"Conspiracy!"
20th Century, "death panels": Doctors consult one another to determine, in a non-binding manner, if life saving treatment can be implemented cost effectively.
21st Century, *death panels*: Bureaucrats determine if doctors can be allowed to save a patient in line with the national healthcare policy.
"They're going to nationalize healthcare!"
"Quit being a conspiracy nut!"
They aren't just denying the treatment to someone who's on a random donor list, either, which would provide at least SOME logical justification that the patient shouldn't line jump--they're denying it to someone that has a direct donor. Both the donor and the patient have not gotten the Holy Coof Juice, so the hospital is denying the transplant on those grounds.
Whether the patient is at greater risk of dying is really beside the point in this case, if she already has a direct donor and is willing to take the risk. It shouldn't be up to the hospital to dictate what two private individuals have arranged between them in regards to private healthcare decisions.
I bet JFree has such a huge boner over this.
Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen has warned lawmakers that the federal government will likely run out of cash by October 18
*** scratches head ***
Could the feds then use *bartering*?
Or “robbing”.
Yellen doesn't run Bartertown. Masterblaster runs Bartertown!
"The Perfect Solution Fallacy (also known as the ‘Nirvana Fallacy‘) is a false dichotomy that occurs when an argument assumes that a . . . course of action should be rejected because it is not perfect, even though it is the best option available."
----Perfect Solution Fallacy
https://yandoo.wordpress.com/2013/12/10/perfect-solution-fallacy/
I'm in favor of perfect solutions. I advocate for the best solution all the time. When I go to restaurants, I sometimes order off menu items. I don't want to settle for what's being offered to me. If I can get it, I want better than what's being offered. Sometimes, however, what I want simply isn't one of the available options, and when that happens, I go for the best option available.
When I see private businesses discriminating against the unvaccinated or the unmasked--under pressure from the federal government--and I see governors prohibiting private businesses from mandating vaccinations or masks, in opposition to the federal government, I don't see the best option available. That doesn't mean, however, that we shouldn't pick the best available option.
And whether we're talking about the federal government pressuring private social media companies to censor some people's speech vs. forcing them to tolerate everyone's speech equally or whether we're talking about state governments prohibiting private companies from complying with federal vaccine and mask mandates, there is clearly a better option among them--from a libertarian perspective--even if the best option isn't available.
"Abbott's new mandate also puts some businesses in a tricky situation where they must choose between disobeying state or federal law. President Joe Biden announced last month that all businesses with more than 100 employees would be required to mandate vaccines for their workers (or conduct weekly tests), with the Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) enforcing the mandate.
----ENB
In this context, it seems to me that Abbot may be providing legal cover for businesses to exercise their discretion. This seem a bit like preemption laws for guns, which say that local municipalities can't have gun control measures that are more restrictive than the state. To what extent is Abbot's reversal a function of or a response to Biden's vaccine mandate?
Using state governments to protect private citizens from the coercive hand of the federal government isn't necessarily a bad thing from a libertarian perspective. Federalism is part of the separation of powers, and if Biden overstepping the limits of his powers as president is ultimately responsible for this, then I'm not sure we should primarily be pointing the finger at Abbot. In fact, Abbot may be offering the better option--even if it isn't perfect.
“— ENB”
Eric Boehm
“I don’t want to settle for what’s being offered to me.”
Wow, that’s rich, from the guy who keeps telling us everyone must vote for Republicans because we only have two choices.
We don’t have mean tweets anymore, instead there's a sociopathic federal government that wants to watch over almost every financial transaction you make and labels parents as domestic terrorists who raise objections to their kids being force-fed ideological poison at school. All the while destroying America's borders, its energy independence, and the credibility of its military.
The only thing that can stop these evil fascists are a bunch of Elmer Gantry's and slimebag used-car salesman called the GOP. If there was a more politically palatable saviour than the GOP I'm sure Ken would be all for them, but there isn't.
Of course you know all this. Ken has patiently explained it to you a thousand fucking times. But you don't care because you're actually here to harass and troll him.
“In this context, it seems to me that Abbot may be providing legal cover for businesses to exercise their discretion.”
No, he hasn’t. This situation is exactly analogous to Biden’s issuing an executive order saying OSHA must require landlords to evict people who don’t pay their rent, and then Abbott turning around and mandating that landlords cannot evict people who pay their rent.
No it isn’t
How the hell do you figure that?
abbots option may start a more detail legal argument in courts instead of the brushing aside by lower Judges that we have seen so far
also of note several banks have stopped backing Texas bonds since they don't allow the banks they work with to have anti gun stances. it will be interesting who will quit first Texas that needs their bonds covered or the Banks that see all that CASH going to someone else.
Sure!
Now it's a federalism issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Do you imagine that the perfect solution fallacy is necessarily negated by the false dichotomy in all cases? It certainly isn't in this case, and it probably never does what you're trying to do with it.
For one thing, false dilemmas are only fallacies when they're false, and, in this case, doing nothing (on principle) may not be the best option to countermand Biden's mandate. Do you understand the difference between alternatives and options?
Here's a hint: You can only have two alternatives. You can have an unlimited number of options. Sometimes, there really are only two mutually exclusive alternatives--heads or tails. The perfect solution fallacy rejects the best available option for being imperfect--whether there are three option or a million. And Abbot's choice may be the best available option--even if it's imperfect.
It's not enough to cite fallacies. You also need to understand them.
As The Texas Tribune notes, the new ban on vaccine mandates is a significant (and disappointing) reversal for Abbott, who had previously banned government-run entities like school districts from mandating vaccines but had taken a hands-off approach with businesses. "Private businesses don't need government running their business," an Abbott spokesperson told the Tribune in August.
It's important to keep in mind here that the Texas Tribune is a shitlib rag out of Austin, of the type who wears the "independent" skin suit while relentlessly parroting Democratic talking points like a screeching macaw.
“Abbott’s new mandate also puts some businesses in a tricky situation where they must choose between disobeying state or federal law."
—-ENB
If Abbot is setting up a constitutional challenge by the states to Biden's vaccine mandate, then Abbot may be doing libertarians a big favor. Imposing vaccine mandates isn't an enumerated power of Congress or a power of the president.
Boehm
AS if it actually matters what fascist POS they have writing.
If you are going to attribute something to a particular person, you should probably get it right if you want to be seen as honest and reliable.
If I misattributed the quote, then that's what I did. The point remains the same regardless.
“Abbott’s new mandate also puts some businesses in a tricky situation where they must choose between disobeying state or federal law.”
----Tom Brady
"If Abbot is setting up a constitutional challenge by the states to Biden’s vaccine mandate, then Abbot may be doing libertarians a big favor. Imposing vaccine mandates isn’t an enumerated power of Congress or a power of the president."
----Ken Shultz
The point remains the same.
Of course it does. I didn't suggest otherwise.
I was just saying that for the record. Yeah, I made a mistake in misattributing the quote, but that doesn't do anything to the point I was making with it--and IF IF IF White Mike was trying to suggest otherwise, then she's just exhibiting her stupidity again.
They're literally indistinguishable from one another. No wonder Reason has so many Editors, they're all the same damn person.
No, he is using businesses as pawns in a political game by putting them in a quandary where they cannot take any course of action that complies with both Federal and state law. In a supposedly business-friendly state.
Yet you were perfectly calm and proud of the federal only influence. You're more outraged by the counter action. Why?
But in Abbott’s Texas, partisan politics trumps business friendliness.
White Mike cries when his lefty boos are resisted.
But in
Abbott’s TexasBiden's America, partisan politics trumps business friendliness. FTFY.What Red said. Also keep an eye on who Reason sources for its articles on criminal justice issues. You'll find the Texas Tribune often cited.
Private companies, not companies facing federal regulators at every turn that they have to keep happy
Credit-Card Firms Are Becoming Reluctant Regulators of the Web
https://news.slashdot.org/story/21/10/11/2126203/credit-card-firms-are-becoming-reluctant-regulators-of-the-web#comments
Visa and Mastercard's near-duopoly on card payments makes their decisions more powerful -- and the firms prime targets for protesters. In 2019 SumOfUs, a left-wing pressure group, tabled a proposal at Mastercard's annual meeting meant to stop payments to far-right groups. (The proposal was defeated.) Thirty-four women are suing Visa along with the owners of Pornhub, an adult site which they say hosted unconsenting footage of them. Illegal-porn sites "care a lot more about their finances than they do about the law," says Laila Mickelwait, whose Justice Defense Fund helps sex-abuse victims litigate. And, she adds, when financial firms change their policies it applies globally. Last year Visa and Mastercard cut off Pornhub over its hosting of potentially unlawful material. Payment companies in particular face a philosophical dilemma. "On one hand they try to be very open, accepting, willing to facilitate payments for whomever. They're not taking any sort of political or moral stance," says Lisa Ellis of MoffettNathanson, a research firm. "But on the other hand, they also feel like they have a very strong responsibility in making sure that they're not aiding and abetting any sort of crime."
Private Companies They Can Do What They Want. Just raise billions of dollars and start your own bank behind the backs of 10 million federal bureaucrats.
So you are in favor of eviction bans?
I assume this made sense in your head. Don't know how, though, because to call it retarded it to insult the merely developmentally challenged.
So, Ra, what do you want to see happen?
Break up Visa and Mastercard under the guise of "anti-trust"?
Nationalize them?
Create a federal requirement that forces Visa and Mastercard to do businesses with everyone? (Wouldn't this be fascism though?)
Break them up. Don't see why having two companies running basically all card services is to anybody's benefit.
Antitrust is intrinsically libertarian.
Antitrust is intrinsically libertarian.
Antitrust is intrinsically UN-libertarian, since it represents the government shitting all over private property rights.
Except libertarians want and prefer free markets, not collusive markets. So when companies start acting against free market actions through collusive behaviors, libertarians do prefer antitrust actions. But again, you're not a libertarian.
"collusive behaviors"
What precisely is a "collusive behavior" and why should it be treated as some sinister activity that requires government intervention?
Of course this will never get a serious answer from Jesse. Unless he can try to make it a personal attack or something. Maybe he can comment on my weight some more. Like "HAHA YOU COLLUDE WITH DONUTS" or something.
Maybe if you got off your fat ass and lost weight, it wouldn't be a running joke here, Jabba.
If you don't know what market collusion is you're a bigger idiot than I give you credit for. The fact that you doubled down on not knowing what it was shows you are proud of your ignorance. That's just sad. LOL.
I'm sorry, you want me to tell you what collusive behaviors are? And you pretend you're educated?
Wow Jeff. You're just admitting you are an idiot.
So you cannot explain what you perceive to be a "collusive behavior". You just want the smear tossed out there without defining what it means.
"since it represents the government shitting all over private property rights."
Now do the Civil Rights Act you mendacious piece of shit.
So what is the "correct" number of credit card processors? 5? 10? 100? How do you know? Should 'top men' decide these things, or should the marketplace?
The answer is a number sufficient to not create a collusive oligopoly.
It’s not the job of credit card processors to be an arm of law enforcement.
Keep in mind that chemtard thinks it's okay for the Feds to get involved when their allies in the NSBA go crying to them about "domestic terrorism."
There's literally nothing this fat fuck won't excuse if he thinks it hurts the right, all the while complaining about "tribalism" and "both sides" when it's his lefty boos getting pushback.
Actually, that's not what I said. All I said is that I don't think it is sinister per se for the FBI to have a few meetings. You and your conspiracy-minded paranoid lunatics out there think "FBI having meetings" is equivalent to "rounding up parents into camps for domestic terrorism".
All I said is that I don’t think it is sinister per se for the FBI to have a few meetings.
And the fat fuck goes on to prove my assertion.
“for the FBI to have a few meetings.”
That’s not what happened lying piece of shit.
A public letter and statement is "just a few meetings."
Genuine kudos to Tom Cotton for standing up to Trump's election madness on Jan. 6.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-tom-cotton-went-from-send-in-the-troops-to-stopping-trump
Lol. Daily beast told you it was okay this time.
Neocons gonna neocon.
Just wondering how far this anti-vaxx stuff will go? Will we be back to the days when most kids died before their 5 birthday from preventable childhood diseases?
Parody.
Nope.
"Stupid" will suffice.
M4e isn't mentally competent to do parody.
Sevo, I'm surprised you ever reached literacy given your stupidity. But here you are.
Shit for dinner, fuck off and die.
He learned to read, but he was real angry about it.
"Just wondering how far this anti-vaxx stuff will go? Will we be back to the days when most kids died before their 5 birthday from preventable childhood diseases?"
Care to discuss the mortality rate of pre-5 year olds and COVID?
I am thinking of the broader context and where we are heading. What happen when people start to say all vaccines are bad? How you pick and choose? This vaccine good this one bad?
Mind you, I am vaxxed. Wife and MIL are very immuno compromised. I will never support mandates with virtually no scientific basis.
Bullshit. You'll absolutely support mandates if you think they will hurt Team Blue.
I bet this is a type of mandate that you can get behind:
https://www.yahoo.com/now/2016-07-28-5-american-cities-that-require-you-to-own-a-gun-21439364.html
chemfat pitches a fit because someone who took the Holy Coof Juice doesn't have the same stance he does.
Hey look, Lying Jeffy is making up bullshit again!
I have a couple of vaccines that the majority of Americans don't get. Kids under ~20 get vaccines that most older people don't have and vice versa. Not all vaccines apply equally to all people. The idea that we need a list of 'right' vaccines in order to know what get is just brain dead stupidity. Might as well donate your body to science anyway.
I am thinking of the broader context and where we are heading. What happen when people start to say all vaccines are bad? How you pick and choose? This vaccine good this one bad?
Depends on what Democrats are pimping at the time. They weren't all that excited about the Holy Coof Juice as recently as 10 months ago.
Why would people (who weren't already anti-vax weirdos) start to say that?
Anti-vax is not at all an accurate description of the vast majority of people who question these particular vaccines or object to any mandates.
Um, it's not that hard. Many vaccines have been around for many years and are well known to be effective and reasonably safe. These vaccines are neither particularly effective at stopping infection or transmission nor well tested and well known.
It is not irrational or in any sense anti-vaccine for a person in decent health to decide not to take it or to wait for a while and see how things play out.
This is not about opposition to vaccines. It is about opposition to being forced (or strongly "nudged") into taking a vaccine, particularly one that has only existed for about a year.
It really is a parody.
WTF how do you choose which vaccines are good and bad?
How do you get through your day?
How you pick and choose?
However the fuck you see fit, dumbass. You do realize that there are a shit ton of vaccines out there that virtually nobody gets, right? That the choice of what's a good vaccine that you should get and what's a bad vaccine that you shouldn't is already being made whether your Mom or Crazy Uncle Joe holds your hand or not.
Covid has very little danger to children. So no.
passed along w/o comment
https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1447683514208505859
https://twitter.com/EricRWeinstein/status/1446557005187989505
Tyrant worship.
EITHER a vaccine mandate OR a vaccine ban, issued by a PRIVATE business regarding usage of their PRIVATE property is a pure example of PRIVATE property rights. Do we not believe in those anymore?
Both Team Blue and Team Red are presuming to know how best to run private businesses. Team Blue says "you must require vaccines". Team Red says "you must not require vaccines". Neither one is permitting the individual property owner to decide what is best for him/herself.
A commitment to liberty means accepting that those with whom we disagree are going to use their liberty in ways that we don't like. The way to push back against their "errant" uses of liberty is with non-coercive means, not government mandates. If we don't like that a business is mandating/forbidding vaccines, then we don't patronize those businesses, we try to persuade those businesses, we organize and protest and use social media to shame and cajole businesses into doing what we think right.
Using one type of mandate to try to stop another type of mandate only serves, in the long run, to justify and legitimize the mandates. The only way to win the game is not to play.
Nobody was doing vaccine mandates prior to federal pressure. Why can’t you understand that?
First, that's not true. Health care establishments and airlines were issuing vaccine mandates well before Biden's OSHA talk.
But even if that were true - SO WHAT? Your position ASSUMES that EVERY business that requires a vaccine is doing so ONLY as a result of government pressure. That is clearly NOT true. Why not let businesses have a choice? Don't mandate vaccines but don't forbid vaccine mandates either.
You made no protests about the mandates from SleepyJoe.
And so now that your point is refuted, now you try to make the issue about ME. How typical.
You won't answer the question:
Why not let businesses have a choice? Don’t mandate vaccines but don’t forbid vaccine mandates either.
because you fundamentally don't agree with choice, if the choice means that a person chooses a course of action that you disagree with. That is what makes Team Red more and more authoritarian.
He is making the issue about you because you are a hypocrite and didn't have one single bad word to say about the federal mandate, but are outraged at the state mandate. You're a hypocrite. It shows dishonesty on your part.
He's just copying from your playbook. You can't argue honestly so you always turn the issue into one that is personal. Isn't that in Rules for Radicals? I bet you read that book and took it to heart, didn't you?
And you don't fundamentally agree with choice either, if the choice means that a person chooses a course of action that you disagree with.
Give it up. SleepyJoe lost. Take the L.
Interesting you didn’t deny that you didn’t speak out about Biden’s mandate.
And so now that your point is refuted, now you try to make the issue about ME. How typical.
That's literally all he does.
Find one vaccine mandate prior to the EOs issued by Biden (yes there were multiple).
You can of course cite where you were against the federal ban to the same level of outrage as you are at Abbot for protecting individual choice in the vaccine. Right? Or are you going to admit to being a hypocrite outright?
And now you are channeling Overt. "If you don't show the same level of EMOTIONAL OUTRAGE as me over every single issue that *I* care deeply about, then that makes you a Team Blue tribalist!!!!"
You said today you were against the federal mandate. Show us what you said when it came out.
I have been against government mandated vaccines and government mandated masks since the very beginning of the pandemic.
YOU show where I claimed to ever supported such a thing, if you can.
Lots of places on this very page.
So you can’t.
"Show us what you said when it came out."
He said it. After many days of explaining why it is stupid to expect someone to criticize mandates if they don't support those mandates, he actively said he didn't support them.
It is absolutely hilarious to watch Chemjeff get so outraged about those poor businesses being banned from vaccine mandates, when he won't criticize the decision to make those SAME businesses be mandated. Why, its almost as if he either supports the mandates or just really wants to criticize what someone on the right did. *shrug*
when Overt is your adversary, you should rethink your position
agreed, both sides are bad in this case.
but one side is protecting individual medical privacy and freedom, and the other side is leaning on or requiring companies to mandate vaccines (at pain of job loss) or to exclude customers (if not vaccinated), infringing on individual freedom and not just leaving it up to the companies to decide.
Let me ask you this. Should a private business be allowed to mandate birth control for its female employees?
It will save them business disruptions from absent employees and protect the health of its employees (pregnancy and childbirth can have all kind of dangerous complications). Seems like it could be justified on nearly the same basis as the vaccines.
Exactly the same basis. But people REALLY REALLY don't like us pointing this out.
Does a private business mandating birth control violate the NAP? No? Then in principle, they have the right to do so. That is what at-will employment MEANS, at least from a libertarian perspective. Employers can require anything they want of their employees short of violations of the NAP. And employees are free to refuse those mandates and find work elsewhere for an employer that is more agreeable to their viewpoint.
Employees who refuse an employer mandate are not stripped of their liberty and thrown in a cage. They are simply fired.
If you don't think an employer should have the right to require birth control of their employees then explain why from a libertarian perspective.
Well, one bonus point to you for consistency. And you are generally consistent about that. But if you are going to be a libertarian, you also need to accept that some people aren't going to behave they way you think they should and move on. Any "solution" to a problem that requires nearly universal compliance is not going to work.
In my ideal world, employers can have whatever requirements like that that they want. But in this world, that is almost certainly very illegal and would generate great outrage from many of the same people who are insisting that vaccine mandates for work are good.
Hmmm....This is progress.
How about this, Chemjeff- you have spent a good dozen or so posts here condemning Abbot for prohibiting the use of vaccination status as a condition of employment. Would you agree that the Civil Rights Act and Americans with Disabilities act should also be criticized based on the same logic?
For decades, it's been illegal for a business to discriminate against someone based on their HIV status. Employers can't even ask.
Party of "small government" that only tells you exactly what you can and cannot do.
And if you needed any more evidence that this place is filled with authoritarians and not libertarians, this comment section is exhibit A.
Fuck off and die, steaming pile of lefty shit.
Look at the socialist suddenly upset about businesses facing government regulations. PRIVATE COMPANY THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT!!1!, am I right?
He has obviously never run a company of any size.
I’m gonna ask you to provide a cite for raspberry’s being a socialist.
A notarized membership card?
"I’m gonna ask you to provide a cite for raspberry’s being a socialist."
OK, that's funny, and I understand why some folks consider this pile of shit to be a parody account.
But it's not. Asshole here simply hasn't the brains to conceive of what is required to produce what, for instance, OBL does.
Which reminds me.... We need to burn all those copies of Farenheit 451 before they get any more ideas.
They already took 1984, animal farm and Harrison Bergeron the wrong way. Leave this thing out there and we will have woke Apple iRobot dogs chasing us down before you know it....
Was supposed to be on Canada book burning thread
Works just as well here. You got Mechanical Hound flashbacks from that episode of Dark Mirror too, huh?
What'll be the next dystopian work to come true...
When the National School Boards Association sent that letter to the Biden administration last week--demanding that Biden sic the FBI on parents who oppose vaccine mandates, mask mandates, and critical race theory--they apparently didn't consult their state school boards for their opinion on the matter beforehand.
The State of Virginia, for one, wants to be clear about their position:
"Late last week the National School Boards Association (NSBA) issued a letter to President Joe Biden requesting, “Federal Assistance to Stop Threats and Acts of Violence Against Public School Children, Public School Board Members, and Other Public School District Officials and Educators.” The letter was accompanied by a press release and has been the subject of comment in the press and on social media.
NSBA is a national association composed of the state school boards associations from each of the states in the country. While the Virginia School Boards Association (VSBA) is currently a member of NSBA, it was not consulted about this letter, did not provide information to NSBA, and was not informed that the letter was being sent . . . .
Those citizens who serve on Virginia’s local school boards deserve our thanks. There is no justification for physical or verbal threats directed against them, their staff and certainly not the students. Nor is there any excuse for disrupting a public meeting. When such unfortunate events occur, the local officials, working with local law enforcement, must deal with the situation appropriately. While we look for support to our state and federal governments, we do not seek the involvement of federal law enforcement or other officials in local decisions.
----Virginia School Board Association
https://myemail.constantcontact.com/VSBA-Statement-on-NSBA-Letter-to-President-Biden.html?soid=1132484837359&aid=CW7WQD5j0Mc
It should be noted that the Biden Administration confirmed that the FBI will be investigating parents who oppose their school boards over vaccine mandates, mask mandates, and critical race theory anyway. I guess the war on terror is never over so long as the Biden administration can continue to treat America's parents like they're Al Qaeda! I suppose the FBI will need additional funding for this.
Remember when Snowden leaked all that stuff telling us that the federal government was perpetrating surveillance on American citizens, and it made everyone really upset? Nowadays, the Biden administration just tells everyone themselves in a press release. It's not such a big deal anymore. Progressives aren't embarrassed about violating our rights with federal law enforcement. They campaign on promises to do that kind of thing. Maybe Snowden can come home.
the Biden Administration confirmed that the FBI will be investigating parents who oppose their school boards over vaccine mandates, mask mandates, and critical race theory anyway.
It is amazing to see how right-wing narratives distort the truth so badly.
What was a memo from the FBI that said "we will hold meetings to see what if anything can be done about violent threats and harassment at raucous school board meetings", turns into "the FBI is treating parents as domestic terrorists".
Chemjeff, perfectly OK with the FBI investigating parents unhappy with how shitty schools are.
Even if the local school board doesn't want the FBI involved!
Nope, not what I said, and not what the AG memo does.
Do you understand that the FBI holding meetings, does not immediately mean "throw parents into camps for subversive activity"?
chem, apparently no point in trying to keep Ken on the facts of a subject. I guess that's how he goes from pontificating on how cool McConnell and Gruden are to seeing them become pariahs or resigning within a couple of days..
And I'm not even arguing that the FBI _should_ be holding meetings. I don't think they should be. Petty crimes at school board meetings are local issues. But I also don't think it is the beginning of pogroms against right-wing parents.
This is part of the problem with the Team Red-aligned libertarians around here. It is not enough to agree with them on policies. One must also agree with their most vile caricatures of Team Blue, and/or agree with their most paranoid narratives about the other team. It's not enough to disagree with the decision to have the FBI hold meetings. One must also believe in the paranoid crap that it is about throwing parents in jail for nothing more than protesting CRT. It is absurd.
It's called dehumanizing the enemy. Makes them easier to kill. And for many right-wingers, this is the ultimate goal: war. They want to kill leftists, and anyone who sympathizes with them.
Right? Fucking Drumpf cock sucking cultists and their dehumanizing the enemy.
You can always count on sarc for some hypocrisy.
ya because Flowers By Irene is treating parents as domestic terrorists.
Were they trespassing on public property? Because that means they're probably insurrectionists--in which case, they're asking for it!
"She might have brought on some of this herself, don’t you think, by trying to take the Capitol building by force."
----White Mike, January 14, 2021
https://reason.com/2021/01/14/off-duty-cops-face-federal-charges-for-capitol-rioting/#comment-8701534
This White Mike guy is right.
fuck off, you sock puppeting piece of shit
oh my! take the capital building where?
School board meetings happen on public property, too . . .
Bang! Bang!
P.S. Being unarmed is apparently no excuse.
Annie Kinsella hardest hit.
For the umpteenth time, how did the Capitol cops barricaded behind that door know the mob breaking through the glass were unarmed?
They had total knowledge of the entire situation. They knew the peaceful tourists were unarmed. But they wanted to kill Trump supporters. They woke up that very morning planning to murder Trump supporters. So when the peaceful tourists started peacefully meandering about the Capital, the guards were like woo hoo we can kill some Trump supporters! So with malice and forethought, Saint Babbitt was murdered so satisfy the anti-Trump bloodlust of the Capital police.
Don't you know anything?
"Are they really defending siccing the FBI on parents–despite the local school board not wanting the FBI involved?!"
I don't think I am. I was talking about January 6th and Babbitt.
The other day, when the FBI / school board story first broke, I did point out that Ken was making a bunch of assumptions about what had happened, without having any basis for making those assumptions. But I never said I was in favor of siccing the FBI on anyone.
Mike, you don't know the rules. If you try to clarify something then you're in total agreement with the stance in opposition to the person you are attempting to clarify with. If you try to talk someone down from some exaggerated nonsensical stance then you totally support whatever they were arguing against.
Nobody discusses ideas here. It's all people. Tribes. If you're not this then you're that.
Don't you know anything?
weird these are the only cops you defend...
correction: it is weird this is the ONLY cop you chose to defend
“Not knowing what’s going on is a good reason for cops to kill people!”
— Deesarc
For the umpteenth time, the professional standard of care for using deadly force is when a weapon is observed. Using your metric, every LEO contact could result in the officer shooting the citizen in the head. FFS.
But but but, they were defending Royalty.
Are they really defending siccing the FBI on parents--despite the local school board not wanting the FBI involved?!
feet on desk, sir.
Why is the FBI holding a meeting to see if anything can be done about violent threats and harassment at raucous school board meetings?
"What was a memo from the FBI that said “we will hold meetings to see what if anything can be done about violent threats and harassment at raucous school board meetings”"
This was discussed in a previous post, but Chemjeff's description of the Memo is not fully accurate. Garland did direct the FBI to have meetings, but he also said, "In the coming days, the Department will announce a series of measures
designed to address the rise in criminal conduct directed toward school personnel. "
And according to the accompanying press release, those "Those efforts are expected to include the creation of a task force [...] used to prosecute these crimes, and ways to assist state, Tribal, territorial and local law enforcement where threats of violence may not constitute federal crimes."
It seems pretty clear that if they weren't intending to actually investigate parents, they wanted to make those parents think so.
Yeah, except neither Garland or Biden said that Ken. This is from Garland's statement:
"In recent months, there has been a disturbing spike in harassment, intimidation, and
threats of violence against school administrators, board members, teachers, and staff who
participate in the vital work of running our nation's public schools. While spirited debate about
policy matters is protected under our Constitution, that protection does not extend to threats of
violence or efforts to intimidate individuals based on their views.
Threats against public servants are not only illegal, they run counter to our nation's core
values. Those who dedicate their time and energy to ensuring that our children receive a proper
education in a safe environment deserve to be able to do their work without fear for their safety."
"disturbing spike" = "these uppity parents are pushing back against our agenda."
They cited the incidents in the letter. There were a handful of them nationally. They said local law enforcement wasn't responding--and that was probably because the incidents in question didn't merit a response.
Meanwhile, the Asian population rose by 50% in a small rural town in middle America last year--when the only Asian couple in town had a baby. You might even say the Asian population "spiked"!
Nor is there any excuse for disrupting a public meeting.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves, here.
Is anyone else aware that the guidance from the EEOC on how to ask employees about their vaccination status is over 15,000 words? The OSHA mandate goes against well established federal and state laws to the point where there is no simple way implement it.
Abbott is doing employers a solid here.
Yep.
I blame Trump.
Joe Asshole does, too!
New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy is threatening to blow up New York City's congestion pricing plan that would hike tolls in midtown and lower Manhattan.
Fuck Phil Murphy.
And fuck Jack Ciattarelli, the dimwitted republican candidate that's about to hand NJ its first 2-term dem governor in 40 years.
I'll move back & run for governor but I only want the south half.
I wouldn't want to represent those godless northerners either.
If someone actually ran on dividing the state in half, they'd win with a 90% margin.
splitting NJ in half was all the rage when I was a kid in the early 80s
Oh, I can't believe this hasn't started yet: Let's Go Brandon!
Fuck Tulpa!
Lame.
Fuck lying ass Dee.
somebody ask Abbott if I can goto Dead&Company on Thursday w/o the covid test if they can't ask for vax cards now.
also huzzah to the SWA pilots for walking off the job instead of kneeling.
And the air traffic controllers at Jacksonville Center.
Where is this evidence coming from that the Southwest flight disruptions were part of a coordinated campaign against the vaccine mandate?
Dallas.
The grassy knoll?
moreso Herb Kelleher Way
Look it up yourself, steaming pile of lefty shit.
Oh, and fuck off and die.
Lying Jeffy needs a signed affidavit from the pilots.
Boehm linked to the NYT a day after Reason chronicled their grossly mischaracterized reporting regarding COVID. Two-bit shill.
Banks are up in arms about the Biden administration's plans to track deposits and withdrawals of over $600.
Is there any part of the Bill of Rights he hasn't nuked yet?
"Private businesses can do what they want"
That ship has sailed with anti-discrimination laws.
Yeah, right Abbott:
Texas Minimum State Vaccine Requirements for Students Grades K-12
This chart summarizes the vaccine requirements incorporated in the Texas Administrative Code (TAC), Title 25 Health Services, §§97.61-97.72. This document is not intended as a substitute for the TAC, which has other provisions and details. The Department of State Health Services (DSHS) is granted authority to set immunization requirements by the Texas Education Code, Chapter 38.
2021-2022 Immunization Requirements for Schools
A student shall show acceptable evidence of vaccination prior to entry, attendance, or transfer to a child-care facility or public or private elementary or secondary school in Texas.
For college and university requirements, please see Texas Minimum State Vaccine Requirements for College Entry
For child-care facility requirements, please see Texas Minimum State Vaccine Requirements for Child-Care Facilities
Download this Chart in PDF Format
Vaccine Required
(Attention to notes and footnotes) Minimum Number of Doses Required by Grade Level NOTES
K - 6th 7th 8th - 12th
Diphtheria/Tetanus/Pertussis
(DTaP/DTP/DT/Td/Tdap) 1 5 doses or 4 doses 3 dose primary series and 1 Tdap/Td booster within last 5 years 3 dose primary series and 1 Tdap/Td booster within last 10 years
For K — 6th grade: 5 doses of diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccine; 1 dose must have been received on or after the 4th birthday. However, 4 doses meet the requirement if the 4th dose was received on or after the 4th birthday. For students aged 7 years and older, 3 doses meet the requirement if 1 dose was received on or after the 4th birthday.
For 7th grade: 1 dose of Tdap is required if at least 5 years have passed since the last dose of tetanus-containing vaccine.
For 8th — 12th grade: 1 dose of Tdap is required when 10 years have passed since the last dose of tetanus-containing vaccine. Td is acceptable in place of Tdap if a medical contraindication to pertussis exists.
Polio 1 4 doses or 3 doses For K — 12th grade: 4 doses of polio; 1 dose must be received on or after the 4th birthday. However, 3 doses meet the requirement if the 3rd dose was received on or after the 4th birthday.
Measles, Mumps, and Rubella (MMR) 1, 2 2 doses
For K — 12 grade: 2 doses are required, with the 1st dose received on or after the 1st birthday. Students vaccinated prior to 2009 with 2 doses of measles and one dose each of rubella and mumps satisfy this requirement.
Hepatitis B 2 3 doses For students aged 11 — 15 years, 2 doses meet the requirement if adult hepatitis B vaccine (Recombivax®) was received. Dosage (10 mcg / 1.0 mL) and type of vaccine (Recombivax®) must be clearly documented. If Recombivax® was not the vaccine received, a 3-dose series is required.
Varicella 1, 2, 3 2 doses
The 1st dose of varicella must be received on or after the 1st birthday.
For K — 12th grade: 2 doses are required.
Meningococcal (MCV4)1 Not Required 1 dose
For 7th — 12th grade, 1 dose of quadrivalent meningococcal conjugate vaccine is required on or after the student’s 11th birthday.
Note: If a student received the vaccine at 10 years of age, this will satisfy the requirement.
Hepatitis A 1, 2
2 doses
The 1st dose of hepatitis A must be received on or after the 1st birthday.
For K — 12th grade: 2 doses are required.
Know what's missing from that regimen, Joe Fuckhead?
Not vaccine mandates.
That would be your Holy Coof Juice. Meanwhile, the others have decades of successful usage to their name.
So, you don't oppose vaccine mandates!
Joe, Joe, Joe. You do realize that most people, not just most kids, can't tell you what TDAP stands for. If they can, most can't tell you what percentage of people die if they contract the disease. All of the diseases listed are fatal to children and/or have a high incidence of life-long disabilities associated with them. If the vaccines were not required, many people wouldn't know to get them.
COVID has far better outcomes for children than influenza, for which no vaccine is required, and COVID is proving to be every bit as resistant to vaccination over time.
Nor does Chuck! This is a revelation. They're fine with mandates, it's this vaccine they oppose. Red rocks will probably b cool withit once it's out longer and Chuck's medical training tells him Covid - the deadliest disease in US history - is not deadly enough.
Covid – the deadliest disease in US history
Wow, he actually said it. I no longer have to imagine he thinks this because he actually said it.
Joe, you are a dumbfuck. Not that anyone was taking what you said seriously before, but nobody ever will now because I can link to this post right here where you won the Dippest Shit on the Internetz award.
Lol, Covid hasn't even gotten in the same league as cancer, diabetes, or heart disease, you stupid moron.
Not only has COVID killed an infinitesimal number of people compared to influenza, it has not even killed as many people as the single strain that hit in 1918.
I pointed out a few weeks ago that if COVID had surfaced in 1918 it wouldn't have made the news. None of the people that COVID kills were alive in 1918. People died from heart attacks. Insulin was synthesized in 1922. Life expectancy was 54. Spanish flu killed a million young and healthy people.
Or abortion.
the deadliest disease in US history
How many stupid pills did you eat to come up with that one?
Narrator: Meanwhile, having realized that he shared positions with a proven idiot, sarcasmic immediately began to distance himself...
"...Covid – the deadliest disease in US history..."
Not deadly enough until Joe Asshole succumbs.
Fuck off and die.
Covid – the deadliest disease in US history
Maybe he is a parody
Is the Holy Coof Juice on that regimen, Joe Fuckhead?
What's the magical time period for the vaccine to no longer be considered "experimental"?
Well, what he said might be a starting point. "Decades of successful usage". That might be a little long, but years seems reasonable.
I'd oppose any mandate on principle. If they have a long track record of being not only safe and effective, but also of producing a strong herd immunity effect that effectively eliminates the diseases as things we have to worry about, then I could see it as reasonable for a private institution to require it. Though I disagree, I could see a reasonable argument for a mandate if there is very strong evidence that that last point holds. The covid vaccines are clearly not going to accomplish that.
It's also always worth mentioning that parents can almost always sign a simple form and be exempt from the vaccine requirements.
Wish my ex would do that for my kid. But no, she wore a fucking mask to the Fryburg Fair. Got nothing nice to say about that lady.
Why are you talking about meeeeee!!!???
There you go, talking about ideas again.
I'm starting to think that his ex is a saint.
I always assumed masochist.
How about, it actually has to act as a preventative against the disease it is purported to mitigate. We have pointed out that the CDC has literally changed the definition of vaccine, but you no longer pay attention once the goalposts have been shifted.
You accepted when it went past 2 weeks to flatten the curve. I suspect you will continue to shill when they suggest 2 weeks until your next booster. Anything to pwn the Trumpets.
And why the hell have you never said Trumpets before? That is fucking brilliant. Trumpettes works too. Clearly, you assholes need us to do the heavy thinking for you.
It is refreshing Chuck to hear that you and Red rock support vaccine mandates, just not this one. Covid is the deadiest contagious disease - want to tell us about the cancer vaccines? - as the Spanish flu of 1918 is estimated to have killed 675,00 Americans. We are now at about 700,000 form Covid.
PS Thanks for playing and especially the buffoonery!
PS On Spanish flu US mortality:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html
You are still wrong. H1N1 killed 675,000 during the pandemic. It also killed people in other years. Meanwhile you provided a link that proves you are a fucking idiot.
Mortality was high in people younger than 5 years old, 20-40 years old, and 65 years and older. The high mortality in healthy people, including those in the 20-40 year age group, was a unique feature of this pandemic.
It was much more deadly than COVID. It killed 675,000 healthy individuals in a population of 103 million in 2 years. It killed 12-17 million in India alone, 5% of the population. Whereas COVID kills people who wouldn't have been alive in 1918.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
When can infants get the Holy Coof Juice?
People I know in California can't wait to jab their little ones.
I've seen it in Texas too. Some people have absolutely lost their minds over this shit. "I need them to get the shot so they can see Grandma again..."
Dude, it doesn't work that way. Your grandma probably should get stuck though.
It's really very easy to figure out. As an individual working for a company, under Biden I need to get vaccinated or I get terminated vs the TX EO, my vaccination status will have no effect on my employment.
As a company, under Biden I need to force my employees to get vaccinated vs TX EO, I can't force my employees to get or not get vaccinated.
No, it’s not easy to figure out. As a manager of a Texas-based business with 100 employees or more, it will be nice impossible to comply with both Federal and state mandates.
What about companies that do business with the federal government, especially defense? They're required to have all their employees vaccinated, and federal law trumps state law. So this Texas law is a whole lot of nothing.
Are you sure you know what you are talking about? I have worked on federal contracts and none of our employees required vaccination. You may be confusing the need for vaccinations related to travel outside the US.
'Are you sure you know what you are talking about?'
sarc?
Are you kidding?
Stupid sumbitch probably doesn't know what YEAR it is.
You're on permamute Chucky, so take whatever personal attack you had for me in that comment and shove it up your ass.
Hehehe. Little Sarckie got him feewings hurt?
It is a badge of honor to get muted for pointing out logical inconsistencies.
I told you he'd be waving his mute list every day.
Sarcasmic is a colossal attention-whore and being muted for trolling by Ken and soldiermedic devastated him.
He now believes that making a mute list and telling people that they're on it every day is the ultimate revenge.
It's the most pathetic thing ever.
Lol.
"It's really very easy to figure out" was referring to several boot licking cunts like you and sarc implying how do us libertarians like the fact the the gov of tx is telling businesses what to do while ignoring the biden pronouncement. From the statement above it's "pretty easy to figure out" which is more libertarian. On top of that, abbots actions are a response to biden and if biden didn't force businesses to act a certain way then we would not have seen the tx eo
implying how do us libertarians like the fact the the gov of tx is telling businesses what to do
That's because you do like that fact. You like it because it aligns with your politics. You have no principles at all other than your team winning at the expense of the other.
Fuck off and die, steaming pile of shit.
Whose boots am I supposedly licking?
Where to start...
“which is more libertarian”
Both mandates are impingements on private business’ freedom. Abbott and Biden are cut from the same cloth.
Name a private business who's bottom line improves from firing employees who refuse vaccination.
That's why your argument is disingenuous bullshit.
To me the saddest things in the linked New Yorker article were that entrapment is nonviable as a federal defense (because not mentioned in the US Constitution, so adverse precedents) but race discrimination is (because equal protection is in there, and enforcers objectively do target based on race or Hispanicity); and that the reform-minded pick Biden wanted to head ATF got withdrawn from consideration because NRA didn't like hir (which means you have to choose between gun rights and other rights).
"...the reform-minded pick Biden wanted to head ATF got withdrawn from consideration because NRA didn’t like hir..."
Um, what? You're calling David Chipman a reform-minded pick? Maybe, if you think reform means banning the AR-. While he wasn't the guy in the photos posing at Waco's aftermath, he was a case agent there, and still defends what the ATF did.
Fuck that guy.
Good for Greg Abbott.
Bad for economic freedom.
We'll just ignore the Biden mandate because we're all friends here.
Federal law is supreme over state law. So Texas cannot negate federal mandates.
But someone pointed out upthread that there is no federal mandate yet.
There is if you work for a company that does business with the federal government.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-white-house-wants-millions-government-contractors-vaccinated-by-dec-8-2021-09-24/
Minus a convention of the states.
You really want that? I don't. As shitty as the federal government is, if there was to be a rewrite of the constitution the result would look more like something from Soviet history than what we have now.
Fuck off and die, steaming pile of shit.
Sadly, I think that's probably true at this point. The Constitution is really quite remarkable for how short and clear it is. I suspect that a new constitutional convention today would end up with some monstrosity that tries to account for every contingency.
What would have been the right time for a new constitutional convention? After the Civil War maybe?
Ever look up any of the communist constitutions? They are actually kind of interesting. Guaranteed this and that. Education, work, income... They look great on paper. Reality is a different matter.
http://soviethistory.msu.edu/1924-2/union-treaty/union-treaty-texts/constitution-of-the-communist-party-of-the-ussr/
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1936/12/05.htm
ARTICLE 17. To every Union Republic is reserved the right freely to secede from the U.S.S.R.
Interesting...
Only regarding powers enumerated to the federal government dumbfuck.
Silly me. I thought libertarians opposed government telling private businesses what they can and cannot require of their employees.
We don't live in a libertarian world. Or perhaps like most of the current crop of so-called libertarians, you freak out over Orange Man but are deathly silent about the current aberration in the white house.
I know, HE MEANS WELL!
I opposed "Orange Man's" policies on immigration and trade, because they were far from libertarian, while praising the guy for cutting regulations and bringing troops home.
I have never said anything positive about the current president.
Seems to me that so-called libertarians like yourself have abandoned all principles to become partisan asshats like Ken.
I am currently subject to a medical procedure whether I want it or not (sadly, I voluntarily engaged in said procedure months ago, so I can't cancel my subscription), I sit here in a mandated mask with social distancing EVEN THOUGH I'VE HAD THE VACCINE.
I know the new breed of so-called corporatist libertarian asshats contort themselves into douch-splaining how all these conditions I'm currently laboring under represent economic freedom, but those libertarians who continue to claim to be are nothing more than establishment and mega-corporate shills.
FYI, under our current libertarian moment, forced abortions would be completely legal if a corporation mandated it for female employees-- as it would provide a utilitarian benefit to the company's bottom line so it wouldn't lose productivity for maternity leave or employee turnover for those who shortly after hire, decided to quit to raise the new bundle of joy.
New Libertarianism literally has no argument against that. Literally NO argument against it.
If this is "proper" libertarianism, it's become creepy AF.
I sit here in a mandated mask with social distancing EVEN THOUGH I’VE HAD THE VACCINE.
That blows. I'm ignoring your abortion comparison. I'd rather dance on nitroglycerine.
I don't subscribe to this "new libertarianism" Seems like a straw man.
But I could be wrong. Happens all the time.
“libertarian asshats contort themselves into douch-splaining how all these conditions I’m currently laboring under represent economic freedom”
Huh? You just said you are required to wear a mask because of a mandate. I assume that means a government mandate, since you didn’t say. What commenter here in the commentariat has said that they support such a mandate?
JFree, DOL and your Joe Friday sockpuppet.
If you said bad things about Trump then you support every bad leftist everything ever. Duh.
I have never said anything positive about the current president.
Do you think that somebody would really do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?
I would rarely ever mention Trump if it weren’t for his having a sizable fan club here in the commentariat.
"You're forcing me to shill for the Democrats"
Just like your wife forces you to beat her, right Mike?
So it is the commentariat’s fault!
Libertarians do oppose government edicts on private companies, and on individuals.
In this case the government edict is preventing the private companies from infringing on individual freedom. But the individuals are still free to wear a mask or get a shot if they want to, so it seems much less egregious than requiring everyone to mask up or get vaccinated.
Principles shminciples, right? All that matters is left/right politics.
Fuck off and die, steaming pile of shit.
I don't think you are being quite fair. People like CE and Paul at least are certainly not left/right partisans (if you asked me).
Unless you just want to be cynically, technically correct and watch it all burn, there is some point where you need to think pragmatically about politics. And I tend to agree with many here that the left is going to such extremes in many areas that, as useless and shitty as they are, Republicans are the better option.
At this point I'm pretty narrowly focused on three main issues: opposition to public health tyranny, gun rights and free speech. Democrats seem to be completely opposed to all of those things at the moment.
I get you. And I used to agree. But at this point all I see is Giant Douches and Turd Sandwiches fighting over who will rule my life. I choose none of the above. I'm not playing the "gotta choose a team" game. A lesser of two evils is still evil. So fuck that. If that means watching it all burn, then so be it.
I'm not going to criticize you for taking that position.
I really hope I'm wrong, but I feel like we are on the cusp of something really bad and I probably shouldn't just sit here and watch it happen. I used to be both more optimistic and cynical.
As I see it we're just the unrecognized and ignored people of history who live through the shit while the powerful get their names in the history books.
There's a lot of government and corporate leaders in a lot of different countries that should be arrested for treason by they're respective nations.
I don't think Agenda 2030 or a lot of this other stuff will ultimately be successful, but I think that the West will be a smoking ruin by the time they're done.
I get you. And I used to agree. But at this point all I see is Giant Douches and Turd Sandwiches fighting over who will rule my life. I choose none of the above. I’m not playing the “gotta choose a team” game.
I didn't choose a team, but I got the team other people chose. So if one turd sandwich stands up and says "Giant Douche Firing Squads will not happen in my state", I'm going with Turd Sandwich.
Simply raising your nose in the air and claiming to be oh-so above-it-all isn't helping when I'm literally not allowed to navigate public life without submitting to a forced medical procedure AND showing my medical records to someone in a rainbow flag mask.
I'm a shmuck in Maine.
How can I make a difference?
Vote for Collins?
Vote against Collins?
She's the queen of the RINOs right?
Will my vote matter?
No. It matters shit.
I met Snowe a few times. She stood between me and my college degree, and showed up to a few Greek festivals. I marveled at how homely, ugly, and just plain gross she looks like in pictures, but in person she's someone my dead grandfather would fuck.
And the Giant Douches and Turd Sandwiches analogy is inaccurate anyway.
In reality it's giant turd douche sandwiches versus the very forces of hell.
Used enema water beverages.
It's amazing how animated you get over a state telling an employer it can't fire you if you refuse a medical procedure, but you seem to be rather quiet and neutral (yet you assure me you're totes against it) for a mandated medical procedure.
On the scale of fuckery, one rates WAY higher than the other. I'll let you decide which is which.
If you call that animated. I call it subdued.
Nope, they are of equal fuckery.
How. Because you still haven't explained how it's in Walmart's interests to have the stockboys and the customers vaccinated.
He can’t
"Purdue Pharma—the maker of OxyContin, and the villain in the book and Hulu series..."
Let's be clear, Perdue Pharma and the prescribing physicians were not instructing patients to crush up and snort oxycontin, bypassing the slow release mechanisms. That's all on the patients. Perhaps the addicts should be pointing fingers elsewhere.
Perhaps the addicts should be pointing fingers elsewhere.
Hunter Biden?
You financially support a church that supports prohibition and restrictive liquor laws.
How libertarian of you…
Fail. Try again later.
What I said is true unless you don’t tithe?
If that’s the case way to stick it to the man!
asshole gets flagged 2X
Fuck off, you antisemitic thug.
Cram it liar!
You wouldn't know the truth if it teabagged you with a Mormon's balls, you psychotic piece-of-shit.
I know I’m not antisemitic, but you keep claiming it you lying waste of life.
I know, I know, you don't hate the Jews, it's really just the Jewish-State that you want to cram in ovens.
Someday you will realize that just because you can think something, it doesn't make it true.
You are Descartes retarded cousin 12 times removed. I think therefore it is.
Your church supports Utah’s screwy liquor, tobacco, and drug laws.
You’re too arrogant to realize that just because your church says something doesn’t make it true.
I dislike screwy liquor laws.
KillAllRednecks hates screwy liquor laws, drug laws and restrictions on child porn, but damned if he can't get enough of vaccine mandates and face masks.
Don’t forget some good old fashioned genocide. Karen loves that too.
Where have I mentioned child porn?
Why do you feel you need to lie about me?
The driving force behind that is a screwdriver.
Well, you don’t have to get in a twist about it.
On the short list of "things government should actually be doing," rules/laws/orders/actions to protect individual liberties are basically the only things that should be on it. This order is 100% in line with my libertarian values.
Property rights are individual rights and the Gov of texas is stomping on them.
As a libertarian, do you support the CDC eviction moratorium?
Absolutely not. The housing equivalent would be if govt forbade folks from going into their home.
By sticking his nose into the affairs of private businesses, Abbott is setting up a potential conflict
Gov Abbott is NOT sticking his nose into private businesses. He is telling private businesses they can NOT stick THEIR noses into MY personal health decisions.
I am not "vaccine hesitant". I have signficant medical biology training, have throughly researched the issues with the disease itself, and the putative preventuion injections, and made my decision based upon my own situation, risks, and the medicl implicatioins of taking AND not taking the shots. I have made a firm decision based upon those criteria.
To have some private busines mandate, as a condition of trading with them, tha tI do something I am adamantly opposed to doing is for that business to take up practicing medicine, and I am certain the markes,t handewars tores, mechanics, are NOT licensed to preactice medicine. These business owners have NOT educated themselves sufficiently to be making such life-changing no-reversing medical decisions for me. NONE know my medical history or current states, wo HOW can they FORCE a particular medical intervention upon me? Smole.. they canNOT do that. The US Constitution guarantees ALL OF US our right to "be secure in our houses, persons, papers, and effects" Squirting some chemical into my bocy is a breach of the security of my person. Not gonna happen.
FUrther the Nürenberg accords provide that NO ONE anywhere shall be forced, coerced, mandated, persuaded agaisnt their will, or any other such thing to accept any particular medical treatment or product without first being fully informed as to the nature of the product, its risks, benefits, results, etc, and having the option to decline.
Governor Abbott is merely reinforcing these two prohibitions agasint FORCING me to accept a specific medical treatment or product. MY CHOICE. Not theirs.
So you are going to force private businesses to do business with you.
Shove your false equivalence up your ass, Mike.
The day you can show me that a company is mandating vaccines to benefit its bottom line and not because it's anticipating federal government action, is the day that I won't call you a disingenuous cunt.
Why should a private company have to prove anything to you? It's their company so they should decide whether or not they mandate vaccines.
What the hell are you on about?
How would it benefit a company to fire all its non-compliant workers. It doesn't and it never will. Just like the CEO of Southwest just said, they're only doing such an unprofitable, operations destroying thing because of federal pressure.
Quit pretending there's a single company doing it for any other reason, you dishonest shill.
Regardless the choice should belong to the company not the feds, not the state of texas.
The choice to give in to the federal government’s threats should belong to the company?
You can’t really be this obtuse. I don’t believe it.
"Regardless"
Fuck you, fascist.
LOL, goddamn are they getting desperate:
Delta variant and end of social distancing were the biggest reasons why efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines against infection fell by as much as 25% over the summer - not waning of antibodies, New York DOH study finds
"It's not that the Holy Coof Juice was inadequate, it's that your faith was not strong enough and you failed to continue following the proscribed rituals to ensure All-Mighty Covidia Vaccinia did not remove her blessings!"
These tards basically admitted their "vaccine" is shit at preventing infections, and that we need to go back to 2020 lockdowns to keep people from ever getting sick.
Instead of trying to find actual affordable treatments for what is proving to be an endemic, vascular disease, technocrat, bureacrat, and media whores are projecting their behavioral-sink neuroticism on to an illness with a 99-plus% recovery rate, especially for people younger than 60.
Holy Coof Juice. Great name for an energy drink.
It may be a bit of a quandary for libertarians. We tend to have a knee jerk reaction to all government edicts. But after some consideration, I have to say my position is that the only legitimate function of government is to protect our rights. From whoever is threatening them. And at the end of the day that is what I see this as. I’m no fan of Abbott for obvious and multiple reasons, but I have to agree with this action.
Never mind it is trampling on the private business owners’ rights.
Point out the business owner that wants mandatory vaccinations for his bottom line, and not because he's anticipating federal mandates.
You're such a bullshit artist, pretending that businesses aren't doing it because of illegal federal pressure.
Mike’s motto: Been there, done that and got the t-bag.
It's a no brainer; it's in the Constitution: "This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
And what is a so-called conservative doing telling private businesses what they can and can't do, while ignoring the Constitution? Texas is in bad shape!
LOL, what is this barely lucid bullshit being spewed here?
Maybe if you had laid off the acid in the 60s, your takes might make sense, hippie.
"Pls ignore all the federal threats prompting the company vaccine mandates in the first place"
Fuck off. Banning mandates is the only action that a governor can effectively take to thwart the illegal coercion by the feds.
959
I wonder if it'll break a thousand. No idea why the comments were so active today.
Because the rest of the articles were not really that controversial.
The death panels are here, brought to you by the democrats:
https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/13/cleveland-clinic-bans-severely-ill-ohio-man-from-kidney-transplant-because-the-donor-isnt-vaccinated/
They can't just put a mask on the kidney?
So, employers should have the right to ask about health status, health choices, and/or force employees to prove health status? Employers shouldn’t be able to compel us to give them information about our health choices.
Being manipulated and controlled by our employers isn’t better than being messed with by our government. This is particularly true when they work together to reduce our freedom.