Joe Biden

Biden Will Announce Vaccine Mandate for Companies With 100+ Employees

The president will direct OSHA to require either vaccination or frequent testing


President Joe Biden is set to announce a sweeping new vaccine mandate for all companies in the U.S. that employ more than 100 workers.

Multiple news outlets are reporting that Biden will make the announcement during his speech on the state of the pandemic tonight at 5 p.m. According to Axios, the Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) will serve as the enforcement mechanism for the mandate. Biden will direct the agency to craft a rule that requires large employers to mandate that workers either get vaccinated or submit to weekly testing.

The government will also require federal workers, staffers at most hospitals, and public educators to get vaccinated. A White House website has more details about the plan here:

The Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) is developing a rule that will require all employers with 100 or more employees to ensure their workforce is fully vaccinated or require any workers who remain unvaccinated to produce a negative test result on at least a weekly basis before coming to work. OSHA will issue an Emergency Temporary Standard (ETS) to implement this requirement. This requirement will impact over 80 million workers in private sector businesses with 100+ employees.

It's one thing for the federal government to require its own employees to be vaccinated. But mandating vaccination for 80 million people who work in the private sector is a giant abuse of government authority. The feds should not have this power.

The strategy for enacting the mandate is authoritarian and anti-democratic. Congress has not passed a law explicitly giving the executive branch the power to implement a private vaccine mandate. The executive branch is simply deciding that it already possesses this power. If OSHA can require vaccination under its existing authority, there is little limit to what the agency can do.

If Biden announces such a policy later this afternoon, he will have claimed startling new powers for himself—and, one hopes, will have set himself up for a stern rebuke from state officials and, eventually, the Supreme Court.

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    1. And Work Will Set You Free!

      1. Vax macht frei!

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      2. And OSHA will keep you safe.

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      1. You’ll make a good slave.

        1. Personally, I can’t wait until punch-nazis-in-the-face o’ clock rolls back around.

          1. “Punch”? No, not punch.

            1. “Punch holes in” sounds right. With small pieces of condensed metal and high velocity discharge tools.

      2. Deadline virus that has a 99.9% survival rate.

        1. It’s literally killed 100 billion people in America alone!!!!

          1. lmao!!! North America and South America?
            The USA only has 320M population.

        2. Is that the survival rate of the virus or host?

          1. The host, as it is debatable that a virus is alive, how can we conclude that it survives?

            1. If a clump of cells are not alive* then how could a virus be?

              *Democrat defining what is contain in utero after conception.

              1. Biology science major (I have a Masters in a biological major) a clump of cells shows more traits of being alive than a virus does.
                I got your point and am just adding my own.

              2. For your average Dem the difference between a cell, a prion and a virus is negligible.
                You can’t arrive at their positions without either sociopathy or ignorance to inform them.

          2. And that is only the human hosts, the data on suvivral rate of a growing number of animal hosts isn’t well documented.

            1. The host is not a single human being, its the population. In the end, the most likely outcome is that both the host and virus survives no matter what actions are taken.

            2. Well you don’t have to be a rocket surgeon to put together the pieces. If it came from animals, whether naturally or deliberately, it follows that animals are likely still carriers. This is why they never successfully eradicated Polio and are baffled as to why Ebola keeps coming back. They fail to consider factors beyond their control out of arrogance of not accepting that these factors are beyond their control.

              1. We should just kill all the animals with Covid. Problem solved.

                1. Mandatory animal vaccinations!

        3. More like 99.4%, but higher than that for people young enough and healthy enough to still be working.

      3. This is just the next step in ‘Command and Control’, and we did such a good job last year, we should all be able to grab our ankles, with ease.

      4. Trading your liberties for the appearance of safety and soft promises of protection. Yeap… you’re a liberal/authoritarian.

        1. I recall some dead white guy mentioning the outcome of trading liberty for the illusion of safety. What did he know?

          1. He owned a slave one time, so his opinion is invalid on all things.

      5. Lick them boots, commie shit.

      6. “IF ONLY COMARADE STALIN KNEW!” – Buttplug/AmSoc 2031

    3. Imagine if Trump did this.

      1. Trump rushed to give us an untrustworthy vaccine in a failed attempt to save his presidency. The same vaccine Biden just mandated.

        1. Now do immigration.

    4. I’d like to see what’s happening in Australia being at the front of every news outlet. Their Chief Medical Officer of New South Wales, Dr. Kerry Grant, said that “it is not the time for” conversations between neighbors; also used the words New World Order in regard to opening up. The lockdown includes draconian proposals for anyone refusing to be vaxxed; even to limited beer intake to no more than six per day! And I used to be a total skeptic of the NWO “conspiracy theory), assuming that a place like Australia would be the LAST country to surrender it’s freedoms. Now it’s a prison with involuntary quarantine “hotels”. Etc etc. Everyone needs to see what’s happening there; Biden & Friends can’t wait to make it happen here.

  2. Nobody will do anything to stop him other then send prissy tweets.

    1. Congress has not passed a law explicitly giving the executive branch the power to implement a private vaccine mandate. The executive branch is simply deciding that it already possesses this power.

      Then it’s up to Congress to act. The shit-heels have shown they’re not afraid to use impeachment, isn’t this criminal abuse of power of the Biden Administration exactly what impeachment is meant to prevent?

      1. Impeachment is a partisan tool. Why would democrats impeach democrats Your high.

        1. The one thing that might motivate them is that Congress is becoming more and more obsolete and symbolic. Congressmen might be motivated to at least censure Biden and declare this act crossing the line because they know this essentially eliminates their own power.

          1. That makes sense. There is also the factor that some democrats don’t see Biden as extreme enough and would rather see Harris or Pelosi in power. This is why they got rid of JFK IMO.

            This is not all that different than ww2, where various forms of socialism and communism went to war with each other because they realized their goals were not compatible.

      2. Blatant disregard for the law.

        1. I’m sure there’s a name for it as it is not an entirely new concept, but we are currently under a form of authoritarianism that exists outside of codified law. I guess you could call it tyranny in simple terms, though its much more complicated that that as they are using fear tactics and coercion for compliance outside of having to actually create laws and mandates. In the and, its the same thing. You get punished if you don’t comply with the unwritten rules.

          As an independent thinker, this is where I tend to bump heads with libertarians. Libertarians seem to defend the rights of private businesses to invoke vaccine mandates by choice, but fail to recognize the less transparent mechanisms in place that effectively make these small businesses state actors, whether they realize it or not. They are not doing it at their own free will, but out of fear of consequences from the system, whether it be the criminal court system of civil court system, which is effectively just a way to circumvent double jeopardy protections and enforce uncodified law.

          1. Now that I think about it, it does have a term, mob rule. The government only needs to recruit a portion of the population via propaganda, coercion or bribery to act as enforcers. Then once they have 51% coerced compliance, they can make the mandates official and force compliance to the remaining 49%, which is the stage we are at now. Its like clockwork and has become annoyingly predictable. Its authoritarianism under the guise of democracy. We have seen this in action since the start of the plandemic with everything from the BLM riots to ANTIFA forcing small business to stay closed. They literally recruited witch-hunt mobs to go after people who would not comply so the government doesn’t have to. Then when others rise against the witch-hunt mobs, the police step in to protect the witch-hunters. These people are all state actors, deputized fascists under the false banner of anti-fascism. Vaccines effectively became mandatory the minute the state run media started the “pandemic of the unvaccinated” propaganda campaign.

            1. This is how virtually every totalitarian regime operates. They have the official government bureaucracy that runs the administrative state, and then the political operatives that enforce ideology and root out dissenters. Mussolini had his blackshirts, Hitler had his stormtroopers, Mao had his red guard, etc.

              1. All with the backing of a willing snitching public.

          2. Wicked.

        2. Only moral people respect the law.

          1. Which basically means that when you have conflicting law, like we have in the US, its impossible to be moral, whatever that means.

    2. We’ll see.

      This is a giant arrogation of power by the Executive. What’s next, if this becomes OK?

      1. don’t ask that. There is always a next. It’s how activism and totalitarianism roll.

        1. Eventually you run out of sand to draw lines on. The best defense is a good offense.

          This is going to end very badly if not stopped. I’m not thrilled about seeing what the Feds try next, when about 1/2 the States tell Biden et al to go fuck himself on this, and anything else Covid related.

          1. I agree it will end badly. There is no other outcome when govt decides to treat one group in a disparate fashion. Just saying that a “next” is quite possible. The former free state of Australia is building quarantine camps. Australia.

            1. You saw what their state (province?) of South Australia tried to roll out the other week, right? Basically, you were to put an app on your smartphone. Said app would randomly notify you, that you were to ASAP, take a picture of yourself and your background, and send it through the app to them. Naturally your phone’s geolocation would be enabled and shared with them. Failure to do so would trigger a police visit.

              All of this was hailed as a gentler way of enforcing their quarantine…

    3. Voters will send him home with a Mondale-style wipeout loss, assuming we still get to vote in 2024.

  3. Thank god that Bad Orange Hitler was Fortified out of office, now we’re back to sensible, constitutional governance by the toppest of top men.

    1. YUP! We have the authoritarian mean tweeter out for a guy who tweets nicely and imposes nice rules on us!

      Great job, Reason!

      1. Tip-top libertarianisming.

  4. It’s so good it has to be forced.

    Does the left know how to do anything other than the point of a gun?

    When you are unable to debate or persuade or reason, that’s all you are left with.

    These are the same people that want to take away your guns. All they care about is power

    1. Nobody’s forcing anything. If you don’t like the conditions of employment, find another job. One more fitting for an anti-social, belligerently ignorant, lethally reckless, disaffected slack-jaw.

      1. You don’t really understand the concept of a government mandate, do you?

        1. He’s just a lying dumbfuck.

      2. are you this dumb or do you do it on purpose?

        it’s like you dumb shits saying well if Jordan Peterson doesn’t use someone’s pronouns and compel his speech, it’s ‘just a fine’…

        ‘what if I don’t pay the fine?’

        1. “are you this dumb or do you do it on purpose?”

          Yes. Yes, the asshole bigot is and does.

      3. Kirkland reached a new level of stupid. Find another job where, moron? Oh, yeah, the other companies live under the same mandate.

        You always brag about all the liberal virtues, but when the rubber meets the road it turns out you don’t actually believe in any of them.

        1. Companies could avoid this by splitting into enough legally distinct subdivisions, each with fewer than 100 employees. I’m not at all sure how feasible that is, but it could get around plenty of regulations.

          1. IF the mandate moves through OSHA, then all companies with 10 or more must report to OSHA, so they will move the 100 unit to the 10 unit. Remember if you have ONE employee and there have been 3 injuries in one year (regardless of injury type or severity) then that company has to report to OSHA as well.
            If OSHA gives orders that C-19 and other disease incidents are considered injuries, then almost every company will have to report to OSHA and become under its direct orders.

      4. If you don’t like wearing the yellow star, then find another country.
        If you don’t like being a slave, then escape.
        If you don’t like being a kulak, tough shit.
        “Lethally reckless.” What a drama queen.

      5. Is that how it works? So if I threaten to fire a worker if she won’t have sex with me, I’m not actually forcing her to do anything, right? She can always quit her job. How would that defense work in a trial?

  5. Hey Reason, are all you fuck-wads happy that President Mean Tweets is out of office? Was it worth it?

    1. No shit. I hope the cocktail party invites were worth it Nick.

      1. Those people at the cucktail parties are vaccinated and therefore safe in mortal danger of the unvaccinated. Suck it, Hitler.

        1. They’re *SOPHISTICATED* people.

    2. Actually, yeah.

      Before we had a brain-damaged sex offender in the White House who would violate the Constitution and then send out a vile tweet about it.

      Now we have a brain-damaged sex offender in the White House who violates the Constitution and then falls back asleep.

      Not a huge improvement, but something.

      1. I must have missed where Trump claimed the authority to do any of these mandates.

        1. In their defense, Trump did initiate the eviction moratorium, one of my bigger beefs with him.

          He did not, though, enact policies he KNEW were not legal and do them ANYWAY.

          1. If I recall the authorities of the Constitution, the president can NOT initiate any law or waive any law such as eviction. That is unconstitutional. However, Congress can do so by passing laws, HOWEVER no law congress passes can violate the Constitution.
            “Waiver of eviction” is seizure of private property for public use (the government seizing property for John Smith to live in rent free). This can ONLY be done during 1. During declared war under special circumstance and recompensed by law 2. by imminent domain in a court of law (which requires market value rent or purchase) 3. if the government pays the rent directly on behalf of the lessee.
            I know of no other means legally in the USA. In fact had I been a landlord and the County Court refused to allow eviction, I would simply have sued the County in Federal Court. Any federal court would have to uphold that there are ONLY 3 known ways to set aside property rights.
            People need to stop listening to what the democrats say and do and look at FACT.

      2. Uhm, we now have a brain damaged sex offender who will violate the Constitution and if you dare oppose him, he will sick the DoJ on you. Fixed it for you.

        1. And then he takes a nap.

      3. Not one of my individual rights and liberties were lost under Trump or because of his tweets.

        1. The eviction moratorium he started did. But that’st he only one I can think of. Maybe Bump stock.

          But far less than Joe already has done.

          1. Trade tariffs could be argued to also be placed in this category. But your point still stands.

            1. I will always disagree on this point as the tariffs were largely retaliatory. Once game theory became a part of economics, retaliatory tariffs became a part of the design.

              In decades of AI contests simulating trade theory the tit for tat strategy of trade overcame all other types of algorithms in the competitions. Trump wasn’t going out and blindly creating tariffs, he was responding to other tariffs or corporate theft which was in the billions for China alone.

              It is not libertarian or free market to allow one side to lie, cheat or steal with no push back. It just isn’t.

              1. Correct, it was a trade tariff that began the Civil War. It was a punishment for the south being willing to sell cotton to England and France at a much higher value than the mills in the north were willing to pay. The entire tariff was designed to force the south to sell to the north and to limit the net value of cotton. It made the entire south slaves to the north by design.

            2. lol… I’m not so sure *free* trade with foreigners is an Individual Right. Especially with the explicit Constitutional authority to regulate commerce with foreign nations and collect Imposts.

              But that authority was specifically granted to congress. Actually Executive law-making is wildly dangerous and UN-Constitutional.

          2. I will at least give Trump the benefit of panic and rushing on the initial moratorium. No, it was a bad idea, but I can accept the excuse that it seemed like a good idea before they had time to think about it.

            Biden had the benefit of time, analysis, and a Supreme Court decision. He publicly stated that it was unconstitutional. He had plenty of time to try and push it through Congress. He did none of those and deliberately, knowingly, and explicitly violated the constitution.

      4. When did Trump violate the constitution, lose it in a court case, and then 14 days later re-implement it like Biden did?

        1. And then announce that he knows it’s unconstitutional, but fuck you, it will take you a while to work through the court system.

      5. Actually, we have a number of TDS-addled assholes , of which we got a brand new one, asshole.

  6. federal employees he can do that but i don’t think he can do that to contractors nor do I believe they can require testing as an alternative. the testing is just a forced inconvenience to prove a negative, when will they force weekly pregnancy test of both men and women.

    rules never stopped them before and nothing will stop this encroachment into personal freedom from being tested or vaccinated. our bodies are not our own we are no longer citizens but subjects.

    1. In this country, you are guilty (of having COVID) until proven innocent. That is how due process is supposed to work.

    2. He can’t even order public school employees to get the shot. They are not federal workers.

      And the union members in the school districts don’t want vaccine mandates.

  7. Thank God the leftitarians got their return to normalcy.

  8. Reason is my favorite libertarian-centered magazine.

    1. Reason is not advocating this. Read the fucking article.

      1. They are though. They wanted this President. They knew he would do things like this. And they still voted for him.

        So yes, they are advocating for this.

      2. You happily clapped along during election season to get this outcome Brandy. You and all the other “libertarians” in blue enclaves who don’t act libertarian once the politics start.

      3. It doesn’t matter what they advocate now. They advocated for this government we now have before the election. And this government doesn’t give a fuck about Reason, liberty, free minds, or free markets. You can keep pretending this isn’t how it happened, but it just makes you look stupid.

      4. Hey, little boy Brandyshit! Happy you have a better father-figure in the WH?
        I mean, you did nothing by whine when we had a guy who actually stuck by some libertarian principles, but purist piles of shit like you just hated those mean tweets, right?
        Fuck off and whine someplace else, asshole.

    2. no you get robby all surprised that Joe Biden is a fucking Liar and every promise he made to get elected was a lie.

      We all knew this was coming. The useful idiots at Reason did too.

      1. Quite the opposite; Joe Biden was elected as a democrat, and the democratic platform is quite clear.
        More like “Promises Made, Promises Kept”.
        Go read it.

        1. Good point. Biden promised to destroy this country (not joking) and 80million people allegedly agreed that is the best course of action to take, as insane as it seems, but even then, 80 million out of 330 million is not an adequate majority IMO for informed consensus to mass suicide. I don’t know what this is, but its not democracy.

          1. There wasn’t a majority for it in Jonestown either

  9. Are you fucking kidding me?

  10. Finally we can use the word Fascism without sounding ignorant or hyperbolic.

    1. That is NOT an improvement!

      1. Upthread you said it was an improvement.

    2. We’ve had no shit fascism for nearly 100 years, they’ve just decided to drop all pretenses now.

      1. It’s come in stages. The fascism ramped up after WWII, greatly accelerated after 9/11, and in March 2020 all pretenses were dropped.

    3. The only people who make it hyperbolic are ANTIFA ironically. They are anti-fascists working as hired mob for the fascists.

      “When fascism comes to America, it will come under the guise of ‘ant-fascism'”
      -Huey Long D-LA, 1935

      This was not a warning, it was an instruction manual for his party.

      1. He was assassinated the same year he said that BTW. I’m sure that’s just a coincidence.

  11. Go ahead and tell us how great the vaccine is, Robby. It’s so fucking great that you need gun barrels to administer shots.

    1. Ditto with seatbelts and motorcycle helmets. I’m old enough to remember similar outrage. I remember motorcyle nuts wearing stupid half helmets and then ending up the trauma ward for their rights.

      1. And now no bikers end up in the trauma ward?

        1. Anecdotally in recent history the two largest categories locally are outpatient recovery and killed at the scene. Oncoming traffic crossing the line, rather than helmets is the predominant dependent variable.

          1. A couple years back a cyclist near me was racing at high speed and T-boned an SUV. In a bizarre twist, the SUV driver was killed, cyclist was injured, treated, and arrested.

      2. I remember when a virus that has a 99.9% survival rate didn’t require draconian measures from the government.

        1. Freedom cannot be bestowed among the commoners until the common cold has been eradicated!

        2. As recently as 2008 the ACLU agreed with you.

          1. The ACLU stopped being about civil liberties the day it stopped protecting the 2A so this is no surprise.

            1. And at one time, yes it did. It successfully argued in conjunction with the NRA, that Texas concealed carry laws were unconstitutional and targeted blacks and Hispanics.

        3. And as time goes on that mortality rate will continue to decrease. The initially high mortality was almost 100% those with co-morbidities, usually more than one co-morbidity.
          In many cases those same people were living medically on “overtime” as 5-50 years ago they would already have been dead of their morbidities.

      3. motorcycle helmets

        Motorcycle helmets are optional in IL.

        1. And most other states. The majority of states no longer require adults to wear helmets.

          1. You have to forgive Brandy, she supports California style authoritarianism with open arms.

            1. “It’s not authoritarianism if I let them do it to me” – t. Brandybuck.

              1. “It’s consensual if you don’t fight back.” —most prison wardens.

      4. Seatbelts are optional for passengers in some states.

      5. Ahh brandy. Fondly remembering the slow loss of rights “for the betterment of man and false sense of security.” The true libertarian that Brandy. Never stopping the slow march, just helpfully ushering it along.

      6. stuff it up your ass, Brandyshit. Your head wants company.

  12. Justin Amash is right. I agree with the policy, but it must be done at the state level where the authority resides. Either that or get congress to pass a new public health law.

    1. Im pretty sure any mandate would run afoul of SUPERPRECEDENTS Griswold and Roe

      1. Oh stop it.

        Well-established Constitutional concepts like BODILY AUTONOMY and MEDICAL PRIVACY obviously don’t apply to anti-vax extremists.


        1. Ask me if I am vaccinated. My answer will be “HIPPA”.

          Let a government agent knock on my door to ask, I will answer “where is your warrant with MY NAME and MY ADDRESS and the Criminal cause?”. I will hand them a copy of the US Constitution, then tell them to leave my property. Within 15 seconds I will be holding a pistol on them telling them to leave. Heaven help them if they commit assault or battery.

    2. What other medications should government be able to force on you?

      1. Public health means public. Vaccines greatly reduce the transmission of disease. You don’t want to take your personal medicine that doesn’t effect anyone else, be my guest. But you don’t want to get vaccinated then you impose costs on everyone else. It’s called a negative externality. Your right to ignore medicine ends where your disease gets passed on to others.

        So go ahead and don’t take your blood pressure medicine. But if you refuse to get vaccinated during a pandemic, then you better be isolating yourself to avoid imposing costs on others through your inaction.

        NAP. The buck stops at NAP. You don’t get to accuse the government for aggressing when you initiated the aggression.

        1. Nope. Not being vaccinated is not aggression. I cannot believe you are making this argument.

          1. Well, there is a line there somewhere. It’s not an easy one to draw.

            1. No, there is no “fine line”; there’s a tremendous over-reach.
              And the fact that Brandyshit is going through mental gymnastics to justifiy the POTUS he deserves is no surprise at all.
              Brandyshit’s nothing if not dishonest.

            2. It is definitely not drawn at vaccination status. Unvaccinated does not mean currently sick, so no possible NAP violation no matter how much you twist and distort the definition.

            3. If you are sick, stay at home. Next.

          2. Because you’re too polite and haven’t accepted what kind of person Brandy is. Many of us are not the least bit surprised she’s posting this. We expect it.

            1. Lol. No fucking kidding. This was obvious to most of us years ago. Deep blue state liberal gaslighting as a libertarian.

              I honestly can’t say one pure libertarian thought brandy supports.

              1. Brandy is an uppercase D libertarian.

        2. You are ignoring medicine and science. For the vaccine to make any real difference in transmission you will need 70% efficacy at preventing illness, a slow mutating virus, and 80+% of the population vaccinated. On the first point, the newest data suggests against delta and lambda variants the vaccine has as low as a 39% efficacy at preventing illness (that is the range for influenza vaccine which is not mandated yet). On the second point the virus is fast mutating. On the third point, the chances of a vaccine resistant variety increases exponentially the larger the vaccinated population, given points one and two. It’s simple evolution, the more prone to mutation a virus is, and the lower the efficacy in preventing illness the vaccine is, the evolutionary pressure is towards a vaccine resistant variety. Biden has been warned about this by several esteemed and we’ll respected virologist. Even the heads of Johnson and Johnson’s vaccine research arm has warned about this, stating that COVID will develop resistance to the vaccine.
          The push towards 100% vaccinations is based on the misguided notion that we can eliminate the virus. No respected virologist or immunologist now feels elimination is possible, and likely never was. For two simple reasons the virus mutates rapidly, and it is zoological and we are daily finding new mammals that act as reservoirs and possibly are able to transmit it to humans. A better usage of time should be on developing treatments and vaccinating at risk populations.
          Finally, 100% vaccinations is an unachievable goal. First, a small but not insignificant part of the population can’t receive vaccines because of pre-existing health conditions. Secondly, a large part of the population have had reactions to the first dose and are therefore unable to take a second dose. Third, mounting evidence suggests that those who were prior infected shouldn’t get the vaccine because of increased risk for adverse side effects.
          Rather than focusing on what we should be focusing on, learning to live with the virus, the vaccine mandates are focused on the idea we can still eliminate the virus. Federal money would be far better spent on developing treatments for the small percentage of the population that becomes seriously I’ll and targeted vaccines for the most at risk population. This will actually slow the chance if a vaccine resistant variant emerges. It decreases the evolutionary pressure on the virus to develop resistance to the vaccine. The more people vaccinated, the higher the evolutionary pressure is to mutate towards a vaccine resistant variant. It is the same principle as antibiotic resistance in bacteria. The more people use antibiotics, the greater probability that resistance emerges. It is also the same principle as herbicide resistance weeds. The more herbicides you use, especially if they are the same herbicide or class of herbicides, the greater probability that herbicide resistance emerges. The same principle applies to insecticides, rodenticides etc. We even see it in rattlesnakes, were a growing population of rattlesnakes have evolved not to buzz their tails in warning, because people have been shooting the ones that buzz their tails. It is how evolution works at both the micro and macro level.

          1. “For the vaccine to make any real difference in transmission you will need 70% efficacy at preventing illness,”
            Where in the world did you get that idea?. The delta variant reduces the efficacy of preventing infection to ~60% – 65%. Are you saying that the vaccine is useless. It reduces to probability of avoid serious disease to over 80%.

            “chances of a vaccine resistant variety increases exponentially ”
            No, the probability is bounded by 100%. It cannot increase exponentially.

            1. Actually the newest data from Israel puts efficacy at 39% at reducing transmission.
              As to the 70% number, with 80% vaccination rates, I got from my multiple years of studying immunology for my nursing degree and my masters in animal science (were animal health and immunology is a big factor).

              1. The last journal article I read from Israel, “Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections” does not report decrease in efficacy in that form.
                “Progress of the COVID-19 vaccine effort: viruses, vaccines and variants versus efficacy, effectiveness and escape,’ Nature Immunology, AUG 2021 reports no conclusive measurements but reports of 60% effectiveness against infection.

                1. The data isn’t yet published so take it with a grain of salt.

            2. Of course, it is bounded by 100%.
              Also reducing disease severity doesn’t decrease disease transmission. And in order to reduce transmission you need an efficacy against getting or transmitting in the 70% range. Simply reducing disease severity isn’t enough to decrease disease proliferation and persistence.

              1. Actually, decreasing severity may actually increase transmission, because if symptoms are mild enough people are less likely to take time off from work.

                1. I fully agree with you.

              2. One can quibble about numbers one study to the next, but the main point is that the Biden edict has little to do with medical science or with control of this disease.

                1. Agreed, I am basing my estimates on what is generally considered adequate for herd health in veterinary medicine, and from my experience veterinary sciences tend to be more advanced than human science in this field (and in my specific field, nutrition) because it is a hell of a lot easier to get approval for research that involves models such as direct inoculation of pathogens and or kill studies in animal models than in human models (wouldn’t that be something, a kill study using human models?).

                  1. *herd immunity. My apologies.

        3. If you allow the government to treat its citizens as potential carriers who “might” infect people, a lot of unpleasant doors will start to open.

          What stops the government from denying citizenship to applicants who don’t want to get vaccinated? What happens if H1N1 and other more serious reenters the country? Some Afghans have apparently refused to get the jab. What do you do, keep them locked in military bases forever?

          Vaccination mandates are deeply illiberal (enough that the ACLU once opposed it) and create second class citizens. The vaccine warriors’ newly found deference to private business is amusing to say the least, given that they were in favor of all kinds of healthcare and diversity regulations.

          The libs still haven’t learned the lessons of AFG. You think the American public will tolerate vaccine mandates for the next 10 years, or locking down every time some new variant hits the stage? By Christmas, everyone who was vaccinated earlier this year may need to get another jab or booster shots. 30% of vaccinated says they don’t intend to get another jab. If enough POCs complain or government workers quit and start collecting pensions, Biden will drop this.

        4. The success of eradicating pathogens via vaccinations is not promising. To date only one had been eliminated. Smallpox, the only example, was not zoological, it only had one host, humans. It was not very fast mutating and it took 200 years to accomplish.
          Yellow fever and Malaria have been eliminated in the US not by vaccinations but because of DDT and other insecticides. The pathogen required a single vector host (a certain species of mosquito for each one), which when it was eliminated broke the pathogen cycle eliminating the disease.
          Polio also was eradicated in the US but not world wide, mainly because polio has only on host, humans, and is a slow mutating virus. None of these conditions exist with COVID. It has a growing list of hosts (it grows daily) and at least some of the hosts have been found to transmit it to humans, the others the data is not yet available. And it mutates fairly quickly. Both of these traits argue against the current push for mass vaccinations. From an evolutionary standpoint, these two traits argue that mass vaccinations is actually the most dangerous thing to do, as it greatly increases the probability of vaccine resistance emerging. If the research on Delta and Lambda are verified, vaccine resistance is already emerging.

          1. And FYI me and my sons are fully vaccinated but I don’t want my wife to be vaccinated because of her health history and the fact that she already has had the virus, greatly increasing her risk of adverse side effects (she’s nearly died three times since we’ve been married from her health conditions). But because she works in medicine she is being forced to get vaccinated. If she ends up in the ICU again (it wasn’t because of COVID) or worse, can I sue Biden? Of course I can’t he’s protected.

            1. I’m sorry your wife is in this position. I think we’ve reached the point were we need to start making note of people like Brandy IRL, who are unapologetic enemies of liberty, and are using fear and propaganda as justification.

            2. She needs a signed medical statement advising against vaccination. She may very well have to submit to weekly testing.
              At my university even the vaccinated must be tested weekly.
              As has become typical Mr Biden’s policies and planning are sorely lacking.

              1. The mandate for facilities receiving medicaid and medicare doesn’t have a health exemption the last I heard. As for weekly testing, they already do that.

              2. And just for shits and giggles, since you allude to being a University employee above (which I also happen to be) should we compare CVs?

                1. That would be amusing. I am trained as an electrical engineer and physicist. My last publication in a refereed journal was this year in epidemiology.
                  For our students we are requiring testing 2 weekly plus an attestation of good health and absence of a positive COVID test every day that one plans to be on campus. The attestation also applies to all employees

                  1. Animal Science but teach general agricultural science. My last peer reviewed article was on ensiling techniques, although I have been invited to write two publications in protein supplementation in range cattle and on glyphosate resistant water hemp, but as I am leaving the university shortly I turned down those invitations (even though I was the initial investigator that identified water hemp in the state).

                    1. My first peer reviewed article was also on silage, in that case the impacts of Lactic acid bacteria (LAB)and fibrolytic enzymes (FE) on the ensiling characteristics of maize and alfalfa. I also did a peer reviewed presentation on LAB and FE on the ensiling characteristics of cool season grasses at a farm scale level, however, because of confounding factors (widely variable Dry matters of the bales) I wasn’t able to publish that one as a paper. Good data but as is often the case with farm scale research it didn’t meet the criteria for publications because of confounding factors (my small scale research on alfalfa and maize that I did publish supported the data from my farm scale research).
                      Controlling confounding factors, such as dry matter is a lot easier when dealing with 50 kg of material as opposed to 70 acres of material, who knew, am I right?

                    2. And in animal science animal health is a huge portion of it, and I was pre-vet as an undergraduate so I tended to take extra microbiology, immunology etc electives, however I decided to get my masters instead and went the ruminant nutrition route, so I got a hell of a lot more microbiology education in grad school. And took a 500 level mammalian physiology course.

                    3. And I have an associate’s degree in nursing as well from my time in the service.

            3. Actually, there are several issues you bring up. If I was her I would have her doctor give written statement that the vaccination is too dangerous for her in comparison to re-infection. Make it a medical decision ONLY. Then ADA act comes in to play and work can not do crap.
              With regard to the suit against Biden, YES, however you will be naming OSHA, it leader and Biden as well as the board and management of the Hospital, in advance of taking the shot. The suit will be ADA and employment law. You will ask for MILLIONS in emotional harm and damage to family income, and probably demand full unlimited medical coverage if she takes the shot PLUS exorbitant life insurance policy as well as a disability policy that covers all disability and lost income for life. This shot is known to cause life long disability, including several people who had to have multiple amputations. In other words, yes, you have a cause of action and with a suit that asks for these they will decide to leave her alone.

          2. Great summary. But you are dealing with the leftitarians who gladly trade liberties for appearances of safety.

          3. It is worth noting that polio is spread via fecal-oral transmission. Polio was eradicated in the US mainly due to the elimination/mitigation of contaminated water supplies. That is why it does not spread to the US by travelers from countries where it is still endemic. So the polio example is not a very apt analogy as we are comparing an airborne pathogen to one that is fecal-oral transmission. I am not posting this comment because I disagree with you; I just am pointing out that the supposed efficacy of the polio vaccine coincided with the rapid development of municipal water sterilization practices.

            1. Another point that supports my thesis, thank you (and I don’t mean that sarcastically).

        5. Calling it a pandemic at this stage is being disingenuous, it’s now endemic. You and the media need to learn the difference.

          1. I think that virologists would dispute you on that. It may be poised to become endemic, but I have not seen reputable journal papers that prove it is endemic.

            1. Actually several virologist are calling it endemic. It meets all the defining characteristics an endemic. And the growing list of animal hosts further argues in favor of it being endemic rather than pandemic.

              1. Perhaps.
                I don’t doubt that it will become endemic. You’re correct that SARS-CoV-2 can infect several species of animals.
                All that raises the question of when the White House will recognize the fact and realize that no one made Old White Joe dictator

            2. And even if it’s not yet endemic the evidence argues that it will likely become endemic, and that isn’t me saying so that is Harvard school of medicine.

              1. I agree with that.
                I was only saying that your first judgment was premature.

        6. Brandy, fully supporting Filburn’s analysis. Any time you have any effect on anything else, the state can own you. So unless you are in a cave in the middle of a vast reserve, be prepared to enslave yourself.

          Brandy, the true libertarian.

        7. So will flu vaccines be mandated? What about anthrax vaccines, even though they have the side effect of some vision loss (why military reservists who rely upon their eyesight refused the anthrax vax). What about forcing lap banding on the overweight to reduce the number one co-morbidity factor for just about every disease known? Please dispense your ~fabulously Facist~ wisdom upon the plebs!!!

        8. Next comes mandated flu shots. Then mandated flu papers. Then government mandated fit-bits. “Oh, your health data shows you didn’t perform the mandated 30 minutes per day of cardio, we can’t admit you to the hospital. We can’t have people like you who chose not to take care of themselves taking up public health resources from those who comply.”

          Fuck off twat. If you can’t deal with Liberty, then get the fuck out of America.

        9. “…NAP. The buck stops at NAP. You don’t get to accuse the government for aggressing when you initiated the aggression.”

          This asshole spent 4 years whining since Trump wasn’t the father-figure he wanted. Now that he got what HE deserves, he’s been trying to excuse his idiocy any way he can.
          And this takes the cake.

        10. Actually, if the growing body of virologist and immunologist are to be believed, if you take the vaccine and you are not an at risk population, you are the one committing aggression. This is because you are increasing the likelihood of vaccine resistant varieties emerging and therefore putting at risk, vaccinated populations in more danger.
          Sorry, but you and Biden are ignoring the science. Ignoring the entire history of evolutionary, immunological, and medical history.

          1. Medic,
            Along that line you may be interested to read :
            A critical assessment about this essay by a trained virologist and immunologist is beyond my training, but it certainly does not seem like nonsense. It is interesting but “caveat emptor,”

            1. Good read. Albeit anyone with a strong understanding of pathogens, evolution and immunology wouldn’t find this surprising in the least. It is like we are ignoring all the evidence of past experiences with antibiotic resistance after decades of over prescription of antibiotics being almost policy, the emergence of herbicide resistance after years of over use of herbicides, and over use of specific modes of actions, the emergence of insecticide resistance with the over use of a finite class of modes of action insecticides etc. It is basic evolutionary pressure. And it works at both the micro and macro level.
              One of the basic fundamental things I was taught in immunology is pathogens will almost always evolve to survive and reproduce. That is why pathogens tend to evolve to be more contagious while becoming less lethal (dead hosts don’t transmit pathogens very well) and why they evolve resistance to common treatments. I am fairly confident my pathophysiology and immunology 400 level professor taught us that on day one of class.

              1. My intro to animal science progress or and my animal health, 400 level professors also taught the same thing, as did all my microbiology professors at all levels (it just happened my MMBB 100 level professor was a world recognized expert on E. Coli O157:H7).

        11. There is one category of unvaccinated that does not impose costs on everyone else. Those are the folks – like me – who have a confirmed prior infection. I am refusing to get vaccinated during a pandemic. I have better immunity than any vaxxed only person. So we have a large segment of the population that does not violate any NAP in an objective fashion no room for argument. Your theory is invalid.

        12. you’re a tyrant just like biden. your probably voted for him

        13. I don’t impose any costs on you if I’m not sick.
          That’s been the main crime committed for the past 2 years by public health officers — assuming they can restrict the movement and commerce and freedom of healthy people. Their lawful authority only extends to those who are already sick.

        14. My body

          My choice

        15. It is NOT my disease, it was released by CHINA through interaction with the Democrats in the USA. Proven fact that the DEMS made sure money was placed into the illegal research in China and knew it was illegal when they did it.
          It has been proven that those that are inoculated with the vaccine become asymptomatic carriers of C-19. They are the ones that do not know they are sick and pass it everyone else. The only ones who know they are sick are the unvaccinated, they self-isolate and do not spread it.
          Your entire premise fails on its face with these facts.

    3. I remember when self proclaimed libertarians actually fought against government mandates, even if the government was a local government.

    4. First, I’m pretty sure that’s not what he said – he said Congress should have the power.

      I’m not convinced that they do. I’m not convinced that the state or local governments do either.

    5. “I agree with the policy,”

      I always suspected you weren’t a libertarian. This proves it.

      Forcing a person to vaccinate themselves to protect others from a virus is an act of aggression. No government- local or federal- should have the power to force people to protect others from nature. To think otherwise is to support slavery.

      1. It is even worse. Brandy is asking people who are asymptomatic or have already recovered and have natural immunity to also submit to the whims of government.

        1. When are they going to stop ignoring the elephant in the room of people who’ve been infected. I have. I am pro-vaccine, but from everything I’ve read, I’m not convinced getting vaccinated at this point passes a cost-benefit analysis. Much larger chance of flu-like side effects if you’ve already been infected. And natural immunity seems to be robust and persistent. Maybe I’d get an antibody test next year and based on those results, get a vaccine, but by the looks of it daddy government wants to make my health decisions for me because I’m an asshole ingrate.

          1. And FWIW, this is why the politicization of science is so terrible. Bobbyj and a billion other people like him should be able to look at clinical studies and talk with their doctor to determine whether or not vaccination makes sense to them. By using the SCIENCE! ™ to justify massive political consequences, it merely encourages bad actors to corrupt the scientific process.

          2. “Maybe I’d get an antibody test next year and based on those results, get a vaccine”
            you do know that the CDC refuses to give any credence to serology tests in deciding whether you should be vaccinated.
            I can tell you that 3 weeks after my son’s second vaccine shot, serology showed no antibodies, yet he has had an continues to have a serious side effect that our HMO refuses to ascribe to the vaccine.
            Where is the science in all of this? On one hand I don’t care because he is being treated for the condition, but where is the science or thoroughness in reporting.

            1. There is a self reporting of side affects available at the CDC website regarding C-19. It allows you to enter the date, location and type of anti-viral used, the date of subsequent vaccination and all side affects from day one.
              Apparently there are thousands of listings of Side affects, from “vibrating feelings” to pericardial inflammation (permanent) to lung disease. Some even list DEATH within 15 minutes of vaccination up to several weeks after. No way I am taking that vaccination.
              One issue is that the CDC used to let people sort and download data. That was taken online last I knew.

          3. They can’t talk about it because then many low-risk people would conclude (correctly) that they are better off getting the bug than the jab.

    6. You’re not a libertarian.

      1. Brandyshit’s like turd, sarc and several others; claiming to be what he’s a mile away from.

    7. “…I agree with the policy, but it must be done at the state level where the authority resides…”

      Fuck off, slaver.

    8. Brandy, and “people” like it, need to be forcibly given a lead vaccination.
      What, you’re afraid of a little shot?

        1. Brandy Benshot would be better

  13. I am so relieved we avoided dictatorship under that other guy.

  14. This mandate is insane and unenforceable. The amount of pure fiery rage it’s going to generate could power the nation for decades. Can’t wait to see Biden get spanked for this bullshit.

      1. I fear he isn’t.

        1. Same. By the time the Supreme Court decides anything, everyone will have been forced to get vaxxed or fired anyway.

          1. And the suits have just begun over that. In fact some land owners are beginning to sue the Counties and Cities for failure to allow eviction under law, the state for allowing it and now the feds.
            Remember that there are three ways that government can seize property. Only ONE allows it without recompense. All require specific court action.
            Government ordering you to allow someone to stay rent free in your property is SEIZURE of PROPERTY. The constitution and law are VERY clear on this. IT requires a court order against a specific property and owner and market rate recompense regardless of which of the 3 ways. Can’t just take it, not even in times of war.

    1. The SCOTUS had just told him he does not have the authority to extend the eviction moratorium, I do not see how they would think this passes constitutional muster.

      1. It’s got to get there, first. I’d like to think they’d say no, but I have zero faith in Roberts or Kavanaugh to do the right thing, on the subject of limits on the Executive Branch.

        I’m flabbergasted. And extremely curious to see what Governors like Wheels, Noem, and Desantis plan to do about this.

    2. It is enforceable as hell.
      Big corporations will happily hide behind “it’s the law”, backed by their liability lawyers.
      How can an individual bring a suit? The law does not apply to them, just “large corporations”.
      Fascism at it’s finest.

      1. Well, you’re probably right that (most) big corporations will go along, but you are wrong that an individual can’t bring suit if the government is ordering that they be vaccinated, swabbed repeatedly, or fired. I would imagine such suits to be filed expeditiously.

        1. The government isn’t requiring it, their employer is.
          You can get fired for not wearing a hard hat in a hard hat zone, same thing.
          Why do you think they picked OSHA to enforce this?

          1. The government is enforcing this knucklehead.

            And it will get struck down pretty quick.

          2. Duckduck, “Private agent of the Government” theory, as it applies to Fourth Amendment law. Likely can be analogized to property rights in employment analysis, especially since OSHA is asking these companies to enforce it.

          3. “The government isn’t requiring it, their employer is.”

            This is the “Stalin didn’t kill anybody!” defense.

          4. Yes, but an employee can write a letter of dissent and notify the company that any adverse affect and or long term illness caused by the inoculation will be considered a long term employment related illness. Then reference the adverse affects.
            Some Courts have already ruled that IF a company requires it and someone is harmed they are responsible as work related illness or death. Just send blind letters to the company, keep copies. They knew, they are liable.

      2. Hey now… the fake libertarians here call that “the free market”, not fascism.

      3. “Big corporations will happily hide behind “it’s the law”, backed by their liability lawyers.”
        Without question. Sheep will be sheep. And pigs at the trough will also be sheep.

      4. It’s for any company with 100 employees. That’s not just “large corporations”.

    3. Hmmm, Joe and Bob I’m sorry but to get under 100 employee limit I have to let you go. It’s not that I am against the vaccine, but I don’t think it’s my job as employer to tell everyone what they have to do with their bodies during non-work hours. Additionally, because many of you aren’t vaccinated, I can’t afford to pay for the weekly tests I am required to perform. And weekly tests for all employees is time consuming and will really cut down in productivity. While you will be missed, and I sure could use you, you are the newest hires and my hands are tied (also, aren’t you glad you voted for Biden as you tell everyone in the break room?). Unfortunately, because of your date of hire, you aren’t eligible for unemployment. Friday will be your last day, if you need a reference I will gladly give you one.

      1. But we’ll let you keep your stapler.

    4. You think a lot of people have been retiring early this past year? Wait until this mandate kicks in for weekly nose scrapings and quarterly booster shots that lay you up in bed for a day.

      Companies are already struggling to get workers to go back to the office. Now everyone is going to demand to work from home forever.

  15. that dimwit wouldn’t know an unconstitutional act if it tickled his wrinkly nutsack as it changed his big boy diaper

    1. He knows. He just doesn’t care. We saw this play out with the eviction moratorium, where he outright admitted it wasn’t constitutional but did it anyway to “buy time”.

      1. Some small businesses survived the lockdowns. They need to finish them off. By the time SCOTUS manages to shoot this down, it’ll be too late.

        1. I wish this was OBL saying this as, you know, parody.


          1. OBL does prophecy, not parody.

    2. His campaign platform had plenty of unconstitutional items in it that Reason couldn’t bother themselves to learn about.

      1. But Trump was crude, boorish and downright uNpreSIDentiAL.

        Mean tweets, Jesse. For fuck’s sake, mean tweets!

  16. I think the Reason is way behind the curve on this. Biden has already established autocratic authority numerous times. Also, more importantly, Reason has backed employers mandating vaccines as “rights of private businesses” but fails to recognize the fact that they are doing it out of fear and coercion, which makes them government actors. There is no difference between not mandating something and invoking consequences for non-compliance and mandating something and invoking consequences for non-compliance. The federal government and its arms mandated vaccines for all a long time ago, some are just slow on the uptake.

    1. The main problem comes because many of the Reason writers, confused on the principles as they are, have been asking whether businesses can mandate vaxxes, not whether they should.

      Businesses should not require one employee to protect other employees from a natural pathogen, unless there is some unique aspect of the job that makes this illness more likely or impactful than normal.

      Of course, if Businesses want to be creepy as fuck and make odd demands of their employee’s health decisions, that is their right. But Reason should be pointing out how deeply creepy as fuck that behavior really is. It is as odd and deeply creepy as a business demanding that all of its female employees be on birth control.

      It is the fact that so many of the Reason Writers clearly think that private businesses SHOULD be mandating creepy as fuck medical decisions on their employees that we have ended up in this situation.

      1. I wonder if the writers at un-Reason would be fine with employers mandating birth control for their female workers because they can’t afford to pay for maternity leave, etc.?

        1. I think they would likely say, “Of course this is the business’s right but it is morally an outrage and people should rightly boycott them as punishment and here are all the scientific reasons we are right.”

          Part of the problem with elevating every decision to the federal government is that it such political decisions are GENERALLY zero sum- positive to one person to the detriment of another. This has led people to just kind of assume that all decisions (political or otherwise) are zero sum- to believe that your actions can only be morally positive or morally negative.

          This, of course, ignores the fact that we have a vast raft of actions that are morally neutral. If I over-eat constantly, it is morally neutral. Unless of course we have raised healthcare to the political level where everyone has to pay for my medical bills. Now suddenly my decision is morally negative.

  17. Why does Joe Biden hate black people?

    1. Black people don’t work at companies with more than 100 employees.

      *drops microphone*

      1. funny. even when employed at one.

      2. You are forgetting that most small businesses are being forced under in favor of franchises and corporations by the pandemic overlords. Just because there is less than 100 employees at a given location, IE a McDonald’s, doesn’t mean that the company itself has less than 100 employees. However this could have a positive unintended consequence of shifting employment back to small businesses.

        1. I tend to agree with you, but just for the record, most employees working at a McDonalds are working for a small business that licenses the franchise rights from McDonalds corp.

          But even so, 100 is so arbitrary that there is no reason next week this isn’t 50. Biden can alter the deal. Pray he doesn’t alter it further.

          1. 100 SOUNDS like a big company.

            Own a restaurant or two and it really isn’t. Or more, a small local chain, or a tech startup. I worked for a 100ish person company a few years ago and it was NOT large.

            It could easily be 50. That’s one of the definitions for obamacare. And that definitely would catch some restaurants out.

            I think a big deal is to do it now, whatever it is. I mean, surges last 2 months (it’s very common) and this one’s near or past peak, so if you try to get congress on board having just come back and with Yom Kippur making next week short, you’ll be into the time when case counts are crashing. So throw all your shit at the wall now, see what sticks.

            1. “100 SOUNDS like a big company. ”
              The Small Business Administration counts under 500 employees as a small business

          2. Surely you remember this attempt by the left to call franchises a single employer?


            This won’t last if democrats are given more time.

        2. McDonalds was exactly what I was thinking of. McDonalds are franchises.

          *drops second microphone*

    2. Because everybody knows that Corn Pop won the fight.

    3. Honestly, I would imagine lawyers are already looking for a black Democratic plaintiff for a test case.

    4. “Why does Joe Biden hate black people?”
      He’s a democrat.

    5. Apparently it’s only Trump supporters who don’t get the shot. Not public employee unions that fund Dem politicians, or tech workers that donate to their campaigns.

  18. Such authority simply does not exist.

    1. So? What’s your point?

    2. Authority exists until people refuse to comply, which isn’t happening. Since the start of the plandemic, we have been under rule of uncodified law, the most dangerous form. Even small business that “choose” to mandate vaccines for their employees are not doing it under free will any more so than if the government mandated they do so. Anyone who takes instructions from government without official law is effectively a government actor at this point. Coercion is effectively synonymous to mandates and coercion has become the rule of law.

    3. C’mon. Everyone knows the FYTW clause. It’s how half the Government was built.

  19. So glad I voted for Biden.


    1. Now do Greg Abbott fuckface.

      1. Now go eat shit, fuckface

      2. What about him?

        Like you, I’m thrilled the pro-billionaire party controls Washington DC — Musk and Bezos are both above $200,000,000,000 BTW — and furious about state-level restrictions on access to abortion care.


      3. Yeah, tell us all about the aborted kid’s bodily integrity, Buttplug.

  20. And if that right-wing Nazi DeSantis tries to override this mandate?

  21. lol all your face are belong to us.

  22. If this mandates the coming 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th booster, I won’t comply.

    1. Retired like me, then?

    2. Exactly. Time to retire early. Fortunately the Dems will lower the age for Medicare and SS and really bankrupt the country sooner.

  23. The Polio vaccine makes it so you just have aches and pains, but keeps you out of the hospital.

    1. In 2019, there were 175 cases of wild polio and 364 cases of vaccine-derived polio.


    1. We will all chip in for a one-way ticket to North Korea. Coach of course.
      Buttplug will look after your kids while you are away.

      1. Can we just chip in for half a one way ticket? Not sure the fine for dumping toxic waste in the ocean but it would make the world a better place.

    2. Of course you’re fine with horrible rights violations if they advance whatever cause du jour you’re on about.

      1. Whatever its told to be on about.
        Notice it’s shilling for Big Pharma here.

    3. Pay your mortgage.

    4. “DAMN!” – Buttplug 2031

  25. Side note. A woman wearing a gorilla mask threw eggs at a black man running for governor of California. Just thought you’d like to know.

    1. White woman – – – – – – – –

      1. Who then punched a member of the “security” detail.

      2. Thank you. I forgot to mentioned that. Of course I take comfort in knowing every major news outlet is camped outside her home, digging into her past and demanding her racist head on a platter. We can all sleep tonight

    2. I’m betting the gorilla mask looked better than what was underneath it.

        1. Somewhere there is a hung over beta male wondering why he has a brown paper bag with his gorilla suit…

    3. Liz Warren still campaigning for Gavin?

    4. I was going to go with “deranged racist furry” attacks candidate for governor.

    5. But is he “really” black?

      1. “But is he “really” black (D)?”

        Fixed that for you. You’re not black anymore if you wander off the reservation.

      2. Haven’t you heard? He’s the black face of white supremacy.

  26. Biden is now in violation of his oath of office, and is clearly in need of impeachment and removal from office by Congress. His actions border on treason and sedition. He has acted as a tyrant and is no longer protecting the Constitution of the United States or its people.

    Congress must act, or face the voters in 2022 with removal from office.

    1. He won’t be impeached. Mitch the Squish McConnell has already said so.

      1. He carefully selected the most repulsive VP possible to ensure he is never dirt cancelled or impeached. Hes not as dumb as people think. Everything he is doing that looks like a colossal fuckup is actually deliberate and according to plan. Make no mistake about it, he is sabotaging this country deliberately and there is nothing we can do about it, so grab some marshmallows and roast them on the fire.

        1. Nah, the junta board picked an Easy Susan with the same IQ as Grandpa so she wouldn’t get ideas.
          BTW, don’t blame Biden for Ron Klain and Susan Rice’s fuckups.

      2. Actually what Mitch said was that with the current makeup of Congress it is impossible to impeach and if we feel that needs to change we have to change the make-up of Congress. And he is correct about that. Pelosi wouldn’t even allow debate on articles of impeachment, even if Biden were to shoot someone in the streets of Pennsylvania avenue.

        1. The world is so fucked. There’s no way that they’re going to let 2022 make a difference.
          November 2020 was so obviously rigged, yet nothing’s happened to the crooks. In 2022 they’re going to rub an even greater theft in your faces, and America will just take it.
          And then after that, watch out.

    2. I guess you live in one of the states that legalized drugs – – – –

      1. They will be mandated by the feds soon in all states.

    3. …or face the voters in 2022 with removal from office.

      Dominion has entered the game

    4. Just got a mental image of Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan with face overs: Sulu (as himself) – May I remind you that if a President makes unconstitutional laws…
      Saavick/Biden – I’m aware of my responsibilities mister, er miss, oh whatever!

    5. Believe me, you do NOT want Kamala Harris to be your President.
      “Enjoy” the feeble old white man.

      1. Both are props, it makes little difference

    6. The Dems are doomed now. At least there’s some upside.

  27. We only have 3.5 years left of Bidharris handlers. Build Back Better

    1. You still think there will be another Presidential election?

    2. The establishment is never going to risk another legitimate election again.

  28. All the screaming about Bush and Trump being dictators. Biden is the worst of all of them, but he has a D next to his name so he’s fine.

    1. Biden is the new Woodrow Wilson. Which is funny since they were roommates in college.

      1. He’s always liked ’em young.

    2. Return to normalcy. The media is happy, so Reason is happy.

  29. If I had over 100 employees, tomorrow morning, I would sit with HR and fire enough employees to get under the 100 mark.

    1. And immediately lose all social media accounts, business and personal.
      And face boycotts, crowds of screaming Karens, and a government inspection each day from both state and federal regulators.
      And hire enough lawyers for the annual IRS audit.

    2. Don’t worry. A lot of them will be quitting and going to smaller companies.

  30. I knew when Biden shanghaied that Rachel Levine man-lady from PA to direct and issue Covid edicts we were doomed. The cultural revolution invigorates itself from extremes.

    Be wary. She’s a statist who loves her power. But I repeat myself.

  31. Anyone who enforces this should be imprisoned.

    1. Wow, did you find that last sliver of libertarianism in your body? Aren’t you glad you got that mean old trump out of office?

      1. If you weren’t limited by your lack of maturity you’d see I’m quite the libertarian.

        But all you see is “HE WAS MEAN TO TRUMP WAAHHHHH!!!!”

        1. Libertarian, adolescent school girl, tomato tom-ah-toe.

        2. And BTW I’ve already grounded the two of you to each other until you play nice. Don’t make the grounding longer.

        3. I’m quite the libertarian

          sarcasmic figures a libertarian is a person who visits a libertary and reads all the books there.

  32. Left ignored, again, is having a positive antibody test post-Covid, indicating you have natural immunity, which is an order of magnitude better than the jab.

    1. And how, exactly, does that increase pharmaceutical sales, and thereby donations to the democrats?

  33. Absolutely support Biden on this. We are in an emergency from an international pandemic for which we have a medical solution, but by some citizens screwing around, have managed to extend to a new wave of infections as bad as the 1st wave. New strains develop in this milieu, bringing new danger to all of us.

    In the 14th century, bubonic plague killed 1/3 to 1/2 of the population of Europe. They didn’t have a clue and so tried killing Jews and wandering town to town in self-flagellating mobs as their cure. 3/4’s of a millennia later, we developed a vaccine to kill the disease of our time, a testament to the wonders of reason and science, and a pure fruit of the human mind and our civilization. The problem is that about 40% of our population is both literate and highly educated in comparison to 14th century Europe, but too stupid to take the vaccine. Whatever hope we should have about our abilities and prospects for surviving another 3/4s of a millennia is tempered by the primitive emotions of those guided by the chimp brain. This is not about their freedom to party, this is about doing your part to save your own ass and your neighbors. None of us exist or could survive outside of humanity. Shut up and get your shot. Your ass isn’t that precious.

    1. Your ass isn’t that precious.

      Neither is yours. And I have no obligation to save you. Get up off of your damn knees.

    2. Do your own dirty work and you’ll find yourself scraping your brains off the floor, fed.

    3. You sound like you belong in the 14th century, slave.

    4. fuck you Joe I have a great ass.

    5. (0) This isn’t an emergency. Emergencies are emergent. This has been around for like two years now. There’s no reason why Congress couldn’t pass legislation rather than legislating via bureaucracy.
      (1) This isn’t the plague. It’s nasty, but it’s not going to kill 1/3 of us. It’s not even going to kill 1/30 of us.
      (2) The vaccine is probably safe-ish. (I can’t call it “safe” when Biden even felt the need to mandate that employers pay their workers when they have to miss work due to symptoms like fever that are a direct result of the vaccination.) But it’s new technology and the long term side effects are necessarily unknown because the vaccine hasn’t been around that long. If we repeatedly insist that 100% of us inject things into our body that have unknown long-term effects, eventually we are going to get burned big time.
      (3) Constitutional protections are not to be thrown away so easily. Emergency powers are literally how we got Hitler.

      1. Davy
        1) An emergency is when our hospital ICUs are filled stupid MFers – many of them dying for no reason – blocking elective surgeries, and in some places making other emergency patients get stacked in the hall. I have 2 doc clients dealing with nonsense every day. Additionally, this is impacting the national and world economy – AGAIN – and we hope new strains don’t emerge and spread in this mileu that are even worse than the Delta variant, which is about 1,000 times more contagious than the Alpha strain was.
        2) The vaccine is remarkably safe compared to any previous vaccines and the AMA says 96% of docs have gotten it witha nother 2% about to. Are you smarter than them?
        3) Hitler – you lose! First one to bring him up has defaulted.

        1. An emergency is when our hospital ICUs are filled stupid MFers

          Go to any metropolitan hospital on July 4th or labor day. It’s not something unusual.

          1. No hospital has ever been on medical divert. Ever. This is unprecedented.

          2. Let’s put it there ourselves.

        2. Additionally, this is impacting the national and world economy – AGAIN

          No businesses have been shut down by the virus. They were shut down by government action.

        3. Are you smarter than them?


        4. New strains are always going to emerge. And if evolution is any template, they will be more contagious. And if we continue to insist on mass vaccinations, not only are the likely to be more contagious, but likely to be vaccine resistant as well.
          I am betting from your reference to clients you aren’t involved in a science based industry, probably a lawyer or accountant. As an actual scientist, I am telling you your science knowledge is extremely limited and appears to trend not to science but scientism, in which you worship top men and ignore any scientific knowledge that runs counter to your preferred narrative.

        5. Can you please provide a list of fast mutating, zoological pathogens we have been able to eliminate with vaccines world wide? In the 200 years since the first vaccines were developed?

          1. He can’t. Chances are he was a drive by troll from Facebook or Reddit.

            They don’t send their brightest.

        6. Actually the number of self reported adverse reactions to the vaccine, according to the CDC, is twice as much as all other vaccines over the past two decades. The chance of developing hard data as to the extent of vaccine injury is now impossible to achieve as we are no longer conducting double blind placebo research and are now vaccinating even those who received the placebo in earlier studies. That is completely unprecedented in modern science.

      2. “If we repeatedly insist that 100% of us inject things into our body that have unknown long-term effects, eventually we are going to get burned big time.”

        This cannot be said enough. I wonder if they are scared of a Marek’s Disease analog.

        1. We are already living in a Marek’s disease analog.

      3. More like 1/300 th, if that. As the variants get more contagious they get less lethal. Not how the case counts are higher than ever but the total deaths are going up much more slowly (thankfully.)

        This is not the bubonic plague. It’s not smallpox. It’s not even the 1918 Spanish flu.

    6. I have no more obligation to stick needles in my arm to protect you from the WuFlu than you have an obligation to give me a coat to protect me from the cold.

      *Your* ass isn’t that precious, sweetheart. It is not so important as to require anybody to intervene in order to save you from nature.

      People should look at the data and consult with their doctor to decide if the vaccine offers them better protection than any risks. But that is their decision. I assume you are vaccinated, so you have done everything you can to protect yourself.

    7. They didn’t have a clue and so tried killing Jews

      You know who else…

      1. But enough about The Squad.

    8. You are a piece of shit

    9. Under 8000 adults under the age of 74 have died of this since last August per the CDC. Truly we must enslave the population against the risk that is life.

      1. And OSHA must protect workers with this mandate, even though most of the workforce is under 62.

    10. I would just like to add,

      Fuck off, slaver.

    11. sounds like you’re not paying attention to current events. these “vaccines” are not effective nor are they durable. they do not give immunity nor prevent transmission. by the definition of the word they are not vaccines. so, no, there is no medical solution and you’re an idiot if you actually believe that.

      1. I love how these idiots want to blame the unvaccinated. For all they know, them and all of their idiot friends don’t have the “vaccine” in their systems anymore, making them unvaccinated as well.

        They also always assume it’s unvaccinated people getting sick and going around spreading it, completely ignoring that “vaccinated” can catch, carry, and shed the damn virus.

    12. “for which we have a medical solution”
      Not really.
      Have you heard about breakthrough infections in at least 20% of cases?
      Have you heard about the lambda and mu variants?
      The people with the chimp brains are those who think that the struggle is over.
      “La lotta continua.”

      1. Joe Friday is obviously a civics major who practices scientism and whose last actual science class was a 100 level survey of science that was aimed at civics majors.

        1. So, a science-themed subreddit mod?

          1. Quite possibly.

          2. Or an IFL subscriber.

  34. The White House website says:

    >The President’s plan will reduce the number of unvaccinated Americans by using regulatory powers and other actions to substantially increase the number of Americans covered by vaccination requirements

    They aren’t even pretending that this is anything but coercing individuals to get vaccinated.

    1. Using the coercive power of government to force people to do things for the greater good, as progressives see it, is what being progressive is all about.

      1. Ken, that’s what human societies are about and how we have survived for about 300k years. Wake up.

        1. No it isn’t. Human societies are about voluntarily cooperating for each person’s benefit. That asshats like yourself have enabled tyrants to interfere with that process and bring countless misery on the slaves they created is an unfortunate setback in the continual progression towards human freedom.

          1. For some of these idiots, it’s like the 20th Century never happened.

          2. Overt, you’re dreaming. Wake up.

            1. Joe, you have the historical knowledge of a 4th grader and the moral clarity of a 1900’s era prohibitionist. Get educated.

        2. If humanity had been forced to ask permission from progressives to evolve, we’d still be swinging in the trees.

          Central planning is a failure cross culturally and throughout history. Societies progress and thrive when individuals are free to make choices of themselves.

          The reason geese fly in v-formation isn’t because they understand physics or aerodynamics. They behave as if they understood things they couldn’t possibly understand just by following their individual desires and following the path of least resistance. If they had to ask progressives for permission to do what they want, they’d have gone extinct eons ago.

          You’re not a six day creationist, are you? Progressivism is dumber than creationism.

          The idea that the universe is so big and complicated that it must have been created by a supreme intelligence is nowhere near as stupid as the belief that Joe Biden and his merry band of experts has the infinite intelligence necessary to make better choices for 325 million Americans than those individuals can make for themselves.

          The progress of humanity simply does not depend on average people perpetrating the appeal to authority fallacy, and if you think it does, the joke is on you.

          1. The greatest analogy one can give to central planning is by comparing it to the Intelligent Design/Evolution debate. Central planners are the faithful that believe in intelligent design of society. They attempt to craft a one size fits all way of life that they demand everyone act in accordance with. Instead of allowing states and localities to form their own little pockets of societal design and then allowing legalities to choose from the best results, liberals truly do one the top down centralized planning.

          2. Ken, this isn’t “central planning”, it’s a central mandate in an emergency. If we deserve to survive, the unvaccinated will be quarantined like smokers. Enjoy.

            1. “an emergency”

              Lol, the fuck it is.

            2. That isn’t how quarantines work dipshit.

            3. Joe Friday does not deserve to survive.

          3. “The progress of humanity simply does not depend on average people perpetrating the appeal to authority fallacy, and if you think it does, the joke is on you.”

            And you. Being the overseer of the progress of humanity. Above average yourself.

            How are we doing.

            Less than average. Was that a joke?

            1. Wait, do you think humanity has progressed because of governments? That would explain a lot.

              1. Echospinner is a virus that must be eradicated.

        3. Hey, you should head down and check out the inside of a running wood chipper.

        4. And for the first 250,000 years or so governments didn’t exist. And any anthropologists will argue against the idea of that simple forms of society rely on coercion to get people to comply.

          1. soldiermike, before governments there were alpha males, then elder councils, and anyone threatening the group’s survival would be killed or abandoned. We were social animals before we were individuals, like our closest relatives, chimps.

            1. Actually the idea of alpha males in early development of societies isn’t anthropologically supported.

              1. soldiermedic,
                Our closest relatives are chimps. Do the math.

                1. Never taken an anthropology class I see. And the evolutionary gap between us and chimps is millions of years. Do the math.

                  1. Millions of years and several hundred different extant species of hominids. Do the math.

                  2. Even noted primatologist strongly warn against using primate behavior to model modern hominid behavior. While it may provide some insight, the vast evolutionary gap between modern hominids and our closest primate relatives is huge, and therefore trying to model one behavior based upon the behavior of even their closest biological relatives is fraught with error.
                    Hell, even primatologist have noted that behaviors modeled in one chimp population at a certain geographical location, do not apply necessarily to chimps at a different geographical location.
                    This is because behavior is a phenotype, not a genotype. And please feel free without Google to assist describe the difference between phenotype and genotype.

                    1. soldiermedic, we agree that primates yield insights without being models for human behavior, but you’re not going to find humans – or primates – not raised in highly social groups, and therefore never individuals who somehow willingly gathered into social groups. We don’t exist except as social beings. It is true that we exhibit high degrees of cooperative behavior, and that is key to our incredible adaptability and survivability. If you haven’t read it, Sapien by Yuval Noah Harai provides an interesting explanation of how we have changed from small group tribal members to towns, nations, football team fans, and even international group members by virtue of our brains ability and tendency to accept essentially abstract and fictional definitions of our group. At one time, we only felt membership with those we had personally met and knew. There are hopeful reasons for optimism about these faculties, but with population pressures, climate change, and nuclear weapons, we are walking a fine line that will take our impressive abilities to master.

                    2. soldiermedic, we don’t agree that behavior is a phenotype, not a genotype. Some yes, but much behavior is at least hormonally, if not genetically, determined, and therefore absent modern intervention, fixed.

                    3. First of all it isn’t phenotype or genotype, any expressed trait is by definition a phenotype and is a combination of genotype, environment and randomness. The different phenotypes, however, have different levels on which environment and genotype influences phenotype. E.g. in some phenotypes genotype plays a stronger role than environment, even to the point that impacts of environment are minimal, and in other environment plays a large enough role that it reduces the influence of genotype to minimal.
                      Now you bring up hormones. Hormonal expression is strongly influenced by environment. That is well established, ergo if behavior is modulated by hormones, than behavior itself is influenced strongly by behavior. No, twin studies have pretty conclusively concluded that behavior is a phenotype (of course it is, the very definition of phenotype is any expressed trait).
                      There is no argument in biology as to genotype vs phenotype. It is understood (any first year biology major can tell you) that any expressed trait is phenotype. This isn’t even debatable. What is debatable is to what degree environment plays vs genotype in any phenotype (and don’t forget good old randomness).
                      In some phenotypes, for example rH factor in blood, the effect of genotype is so overwhelming that environmental factors trend to zero (but actually aren’t zero). These cases tend to be single trait phenotypes. However I the number of single trait phenotypes is extremely finite. Most phenotypes actual involve multi-trait genotypes, i.e. there are multiple different and often unrelated genes involved in the expressed trait, or phenotype. Take hair color for instance, multiple different genes impact hair color, but hair color also changes with age and environment. For example, this year one of my cows threw a red calf. Now the pure genotype would suggest that as I have a black Angus herd, and bred to a black Angus bull, that since the gene for black hair is dominant, none of my cows should throw a red calf. However, hair color isn’t a single trait, and additionally, several generations ago, the mother’s lineage includes some red Angus and Hereford. (Given that the rancher I bought them from sold all Hereford and red Angus out of his herd 20 years ago, and the average generation is five years in cattle, that suggests four generations ago, albeit he has several cows in his herd that are 10+ years old and I haven’t traced her exact lineage). For the first two months of her life the calf got redder, however over the past two months she has gotten darker and you can only see the red in the right light now.
                      Another example I can provide is fence crawling behavior in cattle. I had a heifer that constantly crawled through the fence. Several of my friends who are more experienced ranchers suggested I sell her, because not only once a fence crawler always a fence crawler, but also because all her offspring will be fence crawlers, and low and behold, the one year old heifer and this year steer calf she threw both are fence crawlers. Now is this behavior inherited or learned? Or a combination of the two? The peer reviewed literature is mixed, and from my own education suggests it is probably a mixture. Similar generational behavior of fence crawling are also seen in other ruminants such as sheep and goats. This suggests it is genetic, however, in research conducted with dairy cattle and fence crawling behavior the effect is much less pronounced. In dairy cattle, calves are removed from the mother soon after birth and raised separately generally. This would suggest the behavior is taught, i.e. strongly environmentally influenced. However the trait isn’t completely eliminated.
                      Unfortunately because of drought I have to sell all my calves this year and I can’t keep that little red heifer (and too bad because she is a well put together heifer) so I can’t continue to monitor how her hair color will develop. Luckily right now she is fairly black and black heifers bring better prices than red, even though hair color has shown no influence on maternal traits of marketability traits.

                    4. And phenotype doesn’t have to be variable. A phenotype can be fixed, the very definition of phenotype is the expressed trait, and by definition all expressed traits are a combination of environment, genotype and randomness. That isn’t even debatable it is a fundamental truth of biology and especially genetics.

                    5. “behavior is a phenotype”

                      What are you talking about? Phenotype is morphology, not behavior, unless you are talking about gene expression.

                    6. Phenotype is an expressed trait.

                    7. phenotype fē′nə-tīp″►
                      n. The observable physical or biochemical characteristics of an organism, as determined by both genetic makeup and environmental influences.
                      n. The expression of a specific trait, such as stature or blood type, based on genetic and environmental influences.

                  3. soldiermedic, there is an interesting new theory on the evolution of human societies – which are hyper adaptive and successful largely due to heightened cooperation, not competition – caused by the organized murder of alpha males (or any overly violent and domineering members) by societal leaders. You might be interested if you have not previously heard of this:
                    “wrangham’s notion of human evolution powered by self-domestication has an ancient lineage: The basic idea was first proposed by a disciple of Aristotle’s named Theophrastus and has been debated several times since the 18th century. This latest version, too, is bound to provoke controversy, but that’s what bold theorizing is supposed to do. And Wrangham is nothing if not bold as he puts the paradox in his title to use. In his telling, the dark side of protohuman nature was enlisted in the evolution of communal harmony.

                    Central to his argument is the idea that cooperative killing of incurably violent individuals played a central role in our self-domestication. Much as the Russian scientists eliminated the fierce fox pups from the breeding pool, our ancestors killed men who were guilty of repeated acts of violence. Certainly all-male raiding parties have operated in some groups of humans, seeking out and killing victims in neighboring villages (which recalls the patrolling chimps that Wrangham reported on earlier in his career). The twist in his current theory is that such ambushes are turned inward, to protect the group from one of its own: They serve as a form of capital punishment. Wrangham cites a number of examples of anthropologists witnessing a group of men collaborating to kill a violent man in their midst.”


                    1. The biggest hurdle to this hypothesis is still the widely debated topic of how much genotype influences the phenotype of personality. The author of author of the book appears to fall on the side that genotype heavily influences personality phenotype. I am not sold on this school of thought, as behavioral research has repeatedly shown that in stressful circumstances that even benign individuals become aggressive in the right circumstances. This argues strongly in my opinion that the environment side of the phenotype has a significant impact on behavior. E.g. we all have the propensity of violence but our environment inhibits this propensity. Of course some people are more prone to violence than others, however, as with any phenotype, the expression varies greatly amongst similar populations. This could be due to the influence (and likely is) of genotype on the equation. To further complicate matters, phenotype is rarely influenced by a single trait genotype, and most phenotypes involve a complex interaction of different genetic traits. Take hair color or eye color. If eye color were a single trait phenotype, my kids would all have brown eyes (I have blue and my wife brown), however they all have hazel eyes, because the phenotype of eye color isn’t a single trait genotype.

                    2. Do you even know what you are arguing any more? Or are you so discombobulated by people calling you out on your sophomoric factoids that you are just googling around the world to find SOMETHING to make you sound smart?

                    3. And than there is always the fact that phenotype isn’t strictly influenced by environment by genotype, but that an unquantifiable amount is also due to randomness.

                    4. See above he argued it is genotype or phenotype and doesn’t seem to grasp that all expressed traits are phenotypes and therefore influenced by environment, genotype and randomness.

                  4. Yes, morphology.

                    1. Phenotype: an expressed trait. That involves the interaction of genotype, environment and randomness. All expressed traits are phenotypes.
                      A morphology is the study of structure of a living being, a phenotype is the expressed trait and includes all traits including morphology, biochemical traits, behavior etc.

                    2. Since morphology is restricted to shape and structure, behavior can’t be a morphology, however, it is a phenotype because it is an expressed trait. Additionally, morphology itself is a phenotype.

        5. You are actively holding up human progress. So congratulations Joe.

    2. Davy C

      “They aren’t even pretending that this is anything but coercing individuals to get vaccinated.”

      Hellooo! You want it sugar coated? Of course that what’s it’s about. get your damn shot!

      1. >>get your damn shot!

        lol your reasons suck.

      2. You’ll get shot. Don’t doubt it for a minute.

      3. See, when you’re using OSHA, it’s supposed to be about workplace safety. This isn’t really about workplace safety, and they/you admit it. Which means it might get struck down.

        And I have my shots. I didn’t bother to save the proof though. You want me to get another 2 just so I can work?

        1. Especially since the risk to working age people is exceedingly low.

      4. “Just the vax, ma’am.” – Joe Friday Stalin

      5. See my reply to Brandy above as to why the push for mass vaccinations is more likely to push evolution towards a vaccine resistant variety of the virus and more likely to out the most at risk populations (who are also the most vaccinated) in more danger.

      6. Please do take this opportunity to fuck off, slaver.

  35. Fuck off, slaver!

    1. Ken, you’re a spoiled brat without a clue about history and how humans have lasted this long. We are highly social animals, not a loose collection of individuals. We have the luxury of enjoying individual rights we have agreed on, but when the huns at the door or the fleas with the virus in the crib, it’s time to do your part. None of us can do it alone and we don’t have time to beg.

        1. Damn, when Ken brings out a response like that, you know you’ve done fucked up.

        2. Attaboy, Ken.

      1. “Ken, you’re a spoiled brat without a clue about history and how humans have lasted this long. ”

        Ojh my gawwd the projection is surreal here.

        Joe, look in the mirror. For thousands and thousands of years, humans have survived various natural pathogens and continued to survive without vaccine mandates. Societies have never risen or fallen on the existence of a vaccine or a vaccination mandate. So you are the historical illiterate.

        And you are a spoiled brat. You are spoiled because you have lived a plush life with so much risk removed from your sheltered existence that this WuFlu terrorizes you. And like a selfish baby you are lashing out against every person out there who won’t play by the rules of your precious little delusion.

        Friday, police thyself.

        1. Yes Overt, we “survived” with average life spans of about 20-30 years in good times and with occasional die offs like the bubonic plague. Our ancestors didn’t have a vaccine so they had no choice, nor did they have an ICU to fall back on for being stupid. Why would anyone pick that path?

          1. The life span statistic is widely misunderstood. Like you mentioned disease, usually in childhood, was a bug contributing factor, but industrial accidents and rampant warfare also severely limited the lifespan. People weren’t dieing in the 40s, most who had survived to that age likely had as long of life spans as modern humans.

            1. soldiermedic, tribal warfare is not new – see chimps and gorilla bands – and diseases killed many adults as well as children. As many as 1/3 of chimp infant deaths are due to alpha males murdering those not their progeny. Human diseases were not limited to infants, though that was a tough passage for them and mothers to get through as you mention. It is true that as far as we know, the normal lengths of human life – 70-80’s – were attained by some in early times, the number doing so were extremely limted.

              1. Actually the numbers achieving that age span wasn’t quite limited, the majority who survived through adolescents and early adulthood (those most likely to die from injuries) had about the same chance of living into their 70s and 80s as modern man.
                As to your point about other primates, how does that dispute anything I stated?

              2. You ready to die, Joe?
                Doesn’t matter.

          2. “Yes Overt, we “survived” with average life spans of about 20-30 years in good times and with occasional die offs like the bubonic plague. ”

            Wow. In like 3 posts you went from “We should follow the precedent of historical people who coerced others to survive” to “Historical people are not worth emulating because they didn’t live very long.”

            That you don’t even understand the basic statistics of life expectancy is another strike. Statistics, History, morals, and now logic…you are really indicting whatever college gave you that BA.

            “Our ancestors didn’t have a vaccine so they had no choice, nor did they have an ICU to fall back on for being stupid. Why would anyone pick that path?”

            As recently as the 1960s we had major pandemics causing millions of deaths. We understood how viruses spread, and how they could be prevented. While we didn’t have a vaccine, we still declined to do massive lockdowns and mask mandates (masking had been considered since the spanish flu). Why? Because people realized that natural pathogens are natural pathogens and invading peoples’ personal liberties to try and contain them is wrong.

            But for some reason you want to look past all these examples of humanity enjoying freedom, and say that really the only lesson to take from history is “BIG STRONG ALPHA MEN MUST PROTECT JOE FRIDAY!!!!”

            Go find yourself a big strong man to protect you from germs, Joe. It is really the only thing that will make you happy.

            1. And if the gain of function research hypothesis is correct our attempts at containment with vaccines and masks is even less likely to be achievable.

              1. Regardless of whether it was engineered in a lab, the virus infects vaccinated people. It infects their cats. It infects the stray cats their cats fuck. It infects deer.

                A 100% vaccinated population would still see the virus passing around in breakthrough cases, as well as wild animal population, and it would continue circling that petrie dish until enough mutations came along to make the vaccinations completely worthless.

                So not only is Joe historically illiterate, he doesn’t understand even the most basic facts of this case. He would lock us down and stick needles in our arms based on the platitudes of BIG STRONG ALPHA MEN, and would be shocked (SHOCKED I SAY!) when the virus continued its happy path.

                And of course, this all side steps the very basic moral truth that there is NO MORAL OBLIGATION for an individual to stick needles in their arms for the common good. If they decide to vaccinate for their own health, and that happens to benefit the rest of society, great! But they owe that decision to no one but themselves.

                1. Overt, if you are vaccinated, your odds of being infected by the Delta variant are 1/3 those of the unvaccinated. If you’re not infected, you can’t spread except in very rare surface transmissions.

                  1. PS Overt, your moral confusion is probably a result of cult like beliefs, completely disconnected from the human society which you are helpless without, and of course which was necessary for your simple existence, as well as acculturation. Perhaps you should make your attitude clear in your regular interactions as a warning to others.

                  2. Joe, if you jump down an abandoned mine shaft your chances of being infected by the delta variant are zero. Hop to it.

                  3. Oh joy, 1/3 less, so what is the base infection? And how does that disprove anything Overt wrote? If anyone is showing cultist behavior it’s you. You aren’t rationally explaining anything just throwing out meaningless facts without showing how those facts are pertinent as counterarguments. So far you haven’t once offered valid counterarguments just presented contextless facts. That is not how science works.

                  4. “Overt, if you are vaccinated, your odds of being infected by the Delta variant are 1/3 those of the unvaccinated. If you’re not infected, you can’t spread except in very rare surface transmissions.”

                    Which doesn’t change my points: 1) this virus is endemic and spreading to cats. CATS. You can be 100% vaxxed and it will continue to spread, mutate and eventually break through. 2) I have as much obligation to vaccinate in a (doomed) effort to protect “the public” from a natural pathogen as I have an obligation to don a uniform and go fight wild fires in northern california.

                    Joe, I really hope you stick around. I really think you have a chance to learn things. I even hope you remember this name you used so that when you eventually abandon it out of embarrassment, you can still go back to see how you have changed.

                    Consider this: none of the next ten “oh shit, let me google for counterfactuals” is going to actually result in a kill shot from you. Because we aren’t arguing science at this point. We are arguing morals. You have tried to sidestep the moral argument with history and behavioral anthropology and it hasn’t worked because you are morally confused. One day, if you work hard, you will realize it and be reborn under a new name that doesn’t need to go googling for evidence- because the evidence is self evident from basic principles.

                    Good luck!

            2. Overt, let me clear up your confusion. Early human societies did not have our hard won scientific capabilities and therefore our ability to sometimes avoid death from disease through medicine. However, any and all societies from ancient to modern that are not completely decadent will not forever tolerate societally self destructive behavior from it’s members, especially when based on stupidity and a clear lack of a sense of social responsibility. If you choose to continue this behavior, it will be curtailed and limited, and it should be. By the way, calling them “natural pathogens” does not confer granola like qualities to the virus, and the point of vaccines and masks is to avoid lockdowns, as are quarantines of the unvaccinated which you will hopefully face in the near future.

              1. Or we will listen to the experts who are increasingly stating mass vaccinations for anyone not in the at risk population are dangerous and should be stopped.
                This is the case with several vaccines. Meningococcal B vaccines are not widely recommended but are recommended for at risk populations, even though anyone can develop meningitis, pneumococcal vaccines are also only administered to at risk populations, even though hypothetically the whole population is susceptible to pneumonia. In the US yellow fever isn’t routinely administered, nor is plague vaccine or anthrax vaccines (even though plague and anthrax are present in the environment). The main reason these and multiple other vaccines aren’t routinely given is to prevent the eventual emergence of vaccine resistant variants of these pathogens or the risk outweighs the benefit or a combination of the two factors (or as in the case of yellow fever we eliminated the host vector in the US).

                1. soldiermedic, no experts who are not crackpots share your beliefs and all recommend vaccinations against the Covid virus. The AMA reported a month ago that 96% of docs are presently vaccinated with another 2% about to be. I know docs who treat Covid patients – and another who is an expert epidemiologist quoted in state and national venues. None of them agree with you. You have to be looking for nut jobs to find this stuff to buy.

                  1. See, you dismiss any science that does not support your preconceived nations. You don’t offer facts, accept appeals to authority of doctors you know. This is not science this is scientism. I explained at length to you length the evolutionary pathways that vaccine resistance is likely to occur. As to the “quacks” since you like to appeal to authority, several of them are well renowned experts in their fields, heads of respected departments of epidemiology, virology, immunology, etc. You dismiss them as quacks because they run counter to your narrative. You can’t disprove them so you write them off. Some in fact are even people who recommended mass vaccinations, and are even people the CDC used to develop their models and recommendations for handling COVID, however they have changed those recommendations as the data has changed. That is how science works. No, they aren’t quacks. What is your degree in anyhow? How much science education do you have? I would expect that since you label them as quacks you must have at least a bachelor’s in virology, immunology, microbiology or at least biology, right? I mean you are knowledgeable enough to right off respected scientist, who are recognized as experts in their fields, who have PhDs, so you must have an equivalent degree and experience right?

                  2. And all can you quantify that? Can you provide proof of that? Because I’ve never studied any science subject were all experts agree on everything. That is probably the most unscientific thing you have stated today.
                    Once again you are spouting scientism not science.

                  3. And you one fact isn’t any example of all experts. Most MDs are not virologist, immunologist, epidemiologists or public health experts. I wouldn’t go to a surgeon for advice on BP, and a general practitioner is just that a general practitioner. Once again you offer a fact that doesn’t actually support your thesis, however, you don’t realize that.

                  4. Just FYI one of those quacks is a nobel prize winners and even scientist who work for the CDC, WHO and European Science Agencies. But you assure me they are all quacks.

              2. “Overt, let me clear up your confusion.”

                Oh, sweetie. I have no confusion.

                ” Early human societies did not have our hard won scientific capabilities and therefore our ability to sometimes avoid death from disease through medicine. However, any and all societies from ancient to modern that are not completely decadent will not forever tolerate societally self destructive behavior from it’s members”

                This is pretty weak tea from you Joe. Whether a society tolerates something or not doesn’t really fucking matter. There was once a society that felt being Jewish was socially destructive. Its leaders worked very hard to ingrain that, such that the people of that society decided it was ok to kill them off.

                History is in fact rife with “society” deciding that certain behaviors are socially destructive- drugs, sodomy, non-vaxxing, religion, whatever. Societies are remarkably good at misinterpreting what is “socially destructive”.

                “, especially when based on stupidity and a clear lack of a sense of social responsibility.”

                I have a great sense of social responsibility. I understand that a good society doesn’t force other people into servitude to protect others from a virus.

                “By the way, calling them “natural pathogens” does not confer granola like qualities to the virus, and the point of vaccines and masks is to avoid lockdowns, as are quarantines of the unvaccinated which you will hopefully face in the near future.”

                I have no interest in “confering” shit on a virus, sweetheart. A natural pathogen is a way of differentiating between things that happen…er…naturally and things that happen as a result of the actions of humans. One day, when you have learned up a bit on your moral philosophy, you will understand that these distinctions are vital in understanding what is socially responsible or not.

      2. Just stop. This killer virus of your fantasies has a survival rate of >99% for people up to age 70, before dropping to about 95% for those over that mark.

        Humans also fared very poorly in history when govt openly targeted one segment of the population for disparate treatment. Whether that was slavery, the kulaks, forced wearing of yellow stars, or infidels, it never ended well. Dumb ass.

      3. Want to do something, fire the guy who funded the fucking disease.

        1. “Want to do something, fire the guy who funded the fucking disease.”

          Isn’t it hilarious that the idea firing or otherwise sanctioning Fauci, Daszak, or any other idiot at NIH that thought funding this shit was a good idea: that naming any of these people for receiving some sort of penalty, isn’t even discussed by our media or politicians?

      4. When the fleas with the plague were in the crib, the government told people to kill the devil’s familiars (cats) there by exacerbating the plague. Where’s your snark now you mendacious piece of turd? I can’t even think you are a whole turd because that would imply you finished something.

      5. Are you so science illiterate that you believe we can vaccinate our way out of this endemic? See my above response to Brandy as to why the current policy is opposed by a growing number of public health specialist, immunologist and virologist.

      6. Eat shit, fuck off, and go jerk off to your fantasies of a controlled society ruled by TOP MEN! somewhere else.

      7. I would guess that Ken knows more about history than most of us here know about anything.

  36. Sorry Robby but this is no different from your previous “private company” rejoinder, they’re just saying the quiet part out loud here you fascist bootlicker.

  37. Fuck Joe Bide *clap clap clap clap clap * fuck Joe Biden * clap clap clap clap clap *.

  38. I can see the job safety issue actually being used to make this constitutional. I don’t like it and I don’t think it is, but I see the OSHA aspect having a stronger tie of enforcement than the CDC and evictions. I think the key that will bring it down will be the size. With most of OSHA if it is unsafe at 100 employees it is unsafe with 50. The size of my company doesn’t affect hardhat requirements. I hope it fails, but I don’t think it is as cut and dry as the eviction ban.

    1. I wonder if there is something else OSHA could do to make workplaces medically safer.

      I’ll start compiling a list.

      1. imagine how much safer we would be without global warming!

      2. Pregnancy is disruptive to the workforce and can lead to lost productivity. At 5 – 6 months pregnant women’s blood pressure has increased, they are not sleeping well, and their joints and cartilage have started to soften in preparation for labor. This causes them to be uniquely likely to injure themselves or others.

        Obviously businesses ought to mandate birth control for their female workers.

        1. Mandatory abortion injections with quarterly boosters.

    2. OHSA has zero mandate to regulate vaccinations. If they had they would have required flu shots long ago.

      This is about the equivalent of saying the EPA could regulate CO2. It could not because there was zero authority in the EPA legislation to do this. That litigation went on for a while and is one of Obama’s major defeats.

      In any event, corporations are chicken shit and if they are willing to run anti white racism seminars to look good, they will force this anyway. I know of several that were planning to do this before Biden’s seditious speech.

    3. And what’s the risk factor to people young enough and healthy enough to be working? The average retirement age is 62. 80% of the people hospitalized with COVID were not employed.

  39. My body, my choice! Oh wait. Never mind. Get pricked or else.

    Midterms are going to be epic.

  40. “Fuck your freedoms, ‘muh rights’ don’t exist” – Senile Joe Biden

  41. Shit. Has he made the announcement yet? Is it too late to get a bet down on whether or not Biden refers to OSHA as NASA? What’s the over/under on how many times he’ll refer to OSHA as NASA?

  42. Unconstitutional. OSHA rules are not laws. Executive Orders ARE NOT LAWS, EOs only apply to government employees and contractors – not the citizens. The President cannot rule by fiat and neither can the Department of Labor. Tell them to f*** off. We need to remind these idiots that they work for us. They are our employees, not our rulers. Time to fight back with any means available.

    1. Yes, at work I will be packing a nail gun.

  43. So what’s the Libertarian solution for the business owner? Make your own OSHA?

    1. See what your state government does. In the meantime, ignore this mandate.

    2. the solution is to say no. do not comply. they “law” is only effective if people comply

    3. Divide into two or more companies, each with 90 or fewer employees.

  44. Finally, a boon for small business.


  45. Fuck you Reason. This is what you advocated for. You are a tool for the authoritarian left.

    1. This website is trash. Only Stossell keeps them afloat.

      1. And he’s a guest writer.

  46. So this might take effect in a year. After OSHA drafts and proposes a rule, takes public comments, publishes a final rule, and the obligatoty multiple court cases are resolved.

  47. Progressives might become discombobulated over the suggestion that if we opened the border, we could require Mexican citizens to show verification of certain vaccinations at border checkpoints, but they associate the reluctance to get vaccinated with Trump supporters, so they’re all on board.

    Most of this has nothing to do with policy and everything to do with creating another wedge issue. Meanwhile, there are plenty of people who aren’t necessarily in the Trump coalition who are lagging in their vaccination rates.

    Given those numbers, this mandate may well impact the hiring of African-Americans disproportionately. If companies become more reluctant to hire people because of the vaccination status, and African-Americans are lagging in the vaccination rate, we will see an outcome of disproportionate discrimination against people of African ancestry.

    If Trump were advocating this mandate, he’d be accused of racism.

  48. This is what Tyranny looks, sounds and feels like. Dear Leader Biden commands you put his needle in your arm or he will take away your livelihood.

  49. Govt mandating that a group of people be treated in a different fashion from other groups. Someone point to a time in history when this ended well.

  50. This is a bad precedence but we also all see it for what it is. COVID is the only subject that Biden is still above water on in the polls (and barely at that). He is trying to change the narrative and be seen to be doing something. His base assures him vaccine mandates are popular (despite there being little to no pilling data to suggest this). He is trying to regain footing as his poll numbers have cratered, ergo he has decided this is the hill he will defend. So he has reverted to his earlier drive to achieve 100% vaccination rates despite a growing number of immunologist and virologist stating that that policy is likely dangerous, is unachievable, and takes resources away from where they should be spent, learning to live with this endemic.

    1. Remember during the height of the Afghanistan debacle Biden gave not one but two press conferences on COVID and took no questions. He actually got angry during one when a reporter shouted out a question about Afghanistan (he did the same thing when he toured FEMA). He is scrambling trying to find footing and an issue that can reverse his dwindling poll numbers. Stay buckled up, this is just the start. See also his direction of the DoJ to sue Texas over it’s abortion law, and his direction of the DoJ to sue states that forbid mask mandates in schools.

      1. Have a look at
        No endorsement; caveat emptor.

        1. Already read it thank you.

    2. And even if it isn’t broadly popular, it is popular with his base. And he needs them to stop deserting him over Afghanistan, and there is no better way to do this than to force people to pick him over *icky* republicans.

  51. Now Biden voters won’t be able to say a thing if Trump becomes the next president and denies citizenship to any applicant who doesn’t want to get vaccinated. And guest workers would have to get jabbed every year to keep assignment. That would work even better, because it helps keep the undesirables out of the country.

    According to the logic of vaccine warriors, a private business can be required to impose proof of vaccination for the common flu or “less” serious virus like H1N1. Because derp derp it’s public health and derp derp vaccination reduce transmission. You create second class citizens out of your own people and prevent them from participating in society.

    “Oh but it’s different though with covid cuz it spreads faster” It’s like they don’t understand precedents and the pattern of government expanding on powers they grant themselves.

    1. And guest workers would have to get jabbed every year to keep assignment.

      Every year? Israel is on its fourth (4th) booster shot. I haven’t done the math but just from the top of my head… the vaccine became generally available around the first of this year, maybe Feb/March, we’re barely in September… that’s a booster shot what, every 50 days?

      1. I had to take the anthrax vaccination when I was serving. It was three stacked shots, a 6 month booster and yearly boosters after that. And that was for a disease that isn’t human to human transmissible.
        The well trodden evolutionary pathways COVID is taking seems to suggest that a new vaccine will be needed as new variants emerge. It will likely evolve to the point where it will be like the flu vaccine, needing a new vaccine every year to remain even partially effective. That is why we don’t have a vaccine for the common cold (which are often caused by other species of coronavirus). Add in the growing number of animal hosts, which pushes mutation into an unpredictable pathway, we may reach a point, where like influenza, we are having to guess each year what the most prevalent varieties will be. The head of Johnson and Johnson vaccine research has already stated they are preparing for new variants that are vaccine resistant and they fully suspect it will occur.

        1. Yup and you did soldier

          You got all those jabs in arm.


          What are we looking at. A single stranded RNA sequence. With a protein capsule surrounding it.

          As every battle it does not survive the plan going in.

          So you are not ready to give up this fight.

          “ Do not go gentle into that good night,
          Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
          Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

          Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
          Because their words had forked no lightning they
          Do not go gentle into that good night.

          Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
          Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
          Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

          Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
          And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
          Do not go gentle into that good night.

          Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
          Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
          Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

          And you, my father, there on the sad height,
          Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
          Do not go gentle into that good night.
          Rage, rage against the dying of the light.”

          Somebody wrote that. Seems like long ago.

          1. The question becomes, if new variants develop vaccine resistance, requiring new vaccines, will those also be mandated, and when that occurs again, will then the even newer vaccines be mandated? At what point does that end?
            When your plan falls apart in battle, you don’t keep trying to make the plan work, you change the plan to deal with the new conditions. My stance had always been to get the vaccine if you are in an at risk group, all others should do a cost benefit analysis for their personal choice, and the government shouldn’t mandate anything. Secondly, I believe the focus on mass vaccinations is short sighted and we would be better served focusing our energy on developing better treatment. We have the prevention part, for now, the vaccine, we should now be focused on developing treatments. This hyperfocus on getting to 100% vaccination rates is a waste of energy and possibly even dangerous.

    2. Biden is alienating many of his own voters with this mandate. Public employee unions already didn’t want vaccine mandates. Many of the “vaccine hesitant” are not right wing Trump supporters, they are the Democrat base.

  52. Fuck you Joe

  53. Fire Fauci and arrest his lying ass!

  54. Yea, but no mean tweets

  55. this dictator’s tyranny knows no bounds

  56. Is Robby really surprised? We knew this would happen last year, prior to the election, if Biden “won”. I’m not so sure SCOTUS will save us (both Obamacare and DACA are still law of the land).

    Slavery is freedom, and freedom is slavery. The fact that Reason LOLbertarians somehow did not see this coming is both humorous, frightening and equally sad.


    A local business with 101 employees is subject to $14k fines, and yet the postal service is exempt.


  58. Robby Soave: “That’s the aspect of this story for which DeSantis deserves criticism: His COVID-19 declarations get in the way of individual public schools or districts requiring teachers to get vaccinated as a condition of employment.”

    Also Robby Soave (Above): “It’s one thing for the federal government to require its own employees to be vaccinated. But mandating vaccination for 80 million people who work in the private sector is a giant abuse of government authority.”

    Notice that Mr Soave criticizes DeSantis for prohibiting mandates in his government, but gives Biden a complete pass for requiring mandates in the federal government- a far more impactful claim.

    This shows the moral confusion that makes Mr Soave unfit to cover this issue from a libertarian basis. By his own writing, he telegraphs that he would prefer employers bully employees into their medical decisions.

    The time to push back against this social pressure to vaccinate was when mobs were screaming and bullying people to stick needles in their arms for “public good”. That was the time to argue that personal decisions about what chemicals to inject should be left to the individual, and that if the jab helped protect society as well, it was a happy side effect- not some moral obligation.

    Unfortunately we now live in a world where a huge portion of the country believes that we all have a moral obligation to take medicine to protect others from a natural pathogen. Mr Soave helped legitimize that view with his clear preference for “soft mandates” and this latest evolution leaves him fighting a battle that was lost months ago.

    1. Overt, DeSantis’s stupid and purely political mask edict primarily impacts millions of school students, not state employees, and the suits against him are by school boards tasked with keeping them safe, not employee unions.

      1. And the research doesn’t support mask mandates as an effective tool to decrease transmission, especially in school age children. In fact, some research indicates mask mandates may actually increase transmission in young children because they are always playing with their masks, increasing the likelihood that they will infect themselves and others. But what do you care about what the actual scientist say? If they aren’t saying what you want to hear, you ignore them, while lecturing others about being science deniers. This is quite common among civic majors whose science education stopped at a 100 level survey of science course.

        1. “The fight over whether schools should require face masks to help slow the pandemic shows no signs of dying down, but in the science community, there’s little debate.

          “Vaccination is number one, but masking is number two and is therefore the most effective way to reduce spread of COVID in settings where people [including children less than 12] cannot be vaccinated,” said Dr. Mike Smith, a professor of pediatrics at Duke University School of Medicine. He co-authored the ABC Science Collaborative study published in Pediatrics, which tracked the effectiveness of mitigation efforts in 100 school districts across North Carolina.

          The American Academy of Pediatrics has consistently supported universal masking for all vaccinated and unvaccinated children and adults in schools, even when the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention briefly suggested earlier in the spring that vaccinated individuals could go without masks.

          Both groups now urge universal masking because it could be months before a vaccine is available for students under 12, and few schools have systems in place to monitor vaccinations for adults and the students on campus who are eligible for them. With no ability to create herd immunity and amid highly contagious new strains of the coronavirus, “universal masking is the best and most effective strategy to create consistent messages, expectations, enforcement, and compliance without the added burden of needing to monitor vaccination status,” the AAP says.

          The AAP also says masks could help schools avoid outbreaks of other respiratory illnesses in what are expected to be especially bad cold and flu seasons.

          For most of the pandemic, children under 10 have had both lower rates of illness and fewer symptoms than older adolescents or adults. However, studies have found that even when asymptomatic, a child could contract the virus and carry as many or more infectious viral particles as an adult. One new study also finds toddlers and children ages 4 to 8 had higher odds of transmitting the coronavirus to others in their homes than teenagers did, even though teenagers were more likely to get infected in the first place.

          “Masking does offer some protection to the student wearing the mask, but masks are really effective because they reduce the likelihood of children with asymptomatic infection spreading disease,” said Smith, from Duke University’s medical school. “COVID is spread via respiratory droplets, which masking contains and keeps from spreading. This is why universal masking is a much more effective strategy and the safest option for the school setting.”

          1. If masking worked, why did California have a surge last winter?

            1. Masks and vaccines are not perfect.

              1. Have you asked yourself why neither the WHO or ESA have recommended mask for school age children and why Europe isn’t requiring masks in schools?

          2. Your citation is a journalistic article. That is your first mistake. Link to the actual research. Your second mistake is your quoted article states in the scientific community there is no debate. That would be the first time ever that there is no debate in the science community. Only people who don’t understand science ever makes a statement like that. Your third mistake is it’s an opinion piece. Fourth your article doesn’t link to any peer reviewed articles, only to the AAP recommendations. Fifth edweek isn’t a science journal, it’s a political advocacy journal with ties to the teachers unions who are the biggest pushers of mask mandates.
            Once again you are practicing scientism not science. Link to first source, peer reviewed data, not secondary source, journalistic non science non peer reviewed articles. Especially when those journals have a long history of partisan advocacy. Try it sometime.

            1. soldiermedic, as explained below I chose an article which summarized consensus opinion and research on the topic. Google brings up numerous studies which disprove your earlier statement that there was no proof that masks helped. You are wrong about that and should know better.

              1. No you chose an article from a known advocacy group that Chery picked it’s research and I have read the studies. At best, the research is mixed.

  59. October 1, 2022.

    President Biden requires all employees of companies with 100 or more workers to vote Democratic.

  60. You have the freedom to fart in an elevator. It’s nasty, rude, and antisocial. It negatively affects those around you. But you are free to do so at this time. You are free to do so because no one has made this an issue rising to level of necessitating laws. Now, if a political party came along and made farting in elevators part of their core beliefs, and such behavior became widespread, you would soon see ordinances and laws pop up forbidding the farting in elevators and fining elevator farters, etc.. This would be a perfectly rational response by all the non-farters who needed to ride elevators and were being made sick by the farters.

    The moral of the story is that freedom comes with responsibility. Exercise that freedom irresponsibly, and it is bound the become constrained, one way or another. Even shorter: We live in a society.

    Many of you in here seem to think that freedom means that you get whatever you want. That is incorrect. I would ask that you live by two rules: The golden rule. Treat others as you would wish to be treated. And Kant’s categorical imperative, “Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law.” Or more simply, only do something if it would be ok if everyone did it.

    1. Farting and injecting chemicals in your body are two very different things, your analogy is pointless.

      You want to live in a society where a senile old man puppet president can make these proclamations and have the press squee all over him, fine.

      Just get ready to buckle up.

    2. De Oppresso, the overwhelming majority of posters here don’t think they have a responsibility to greater society, humanity, our country, cities, or anyone other than themselves, or they would take the obvious steps to protect others, including their families. They are members of a decadent cult of individuality which fortunately was much smaller during WWII, or we’d be speaking German on the eastern seaboard, Japanese on the Pacific and who knows in fly over where the camps would be.

      1. No, a lot of us understand the science a hell of a lot better than you do. Your posts are nothing but scientism, the result of a passing knowledge of some scientific concepts without the true deeper understanding of what that knowledge means. You make overbroad statements and haven’t yet validly argued as to how any of the counterpoints offered to you are not correct. In fact, when I have pressed you on this point, especially in regards to vaccinations strategies, you fail to even respond.

        1. soldiermedic, virtually no one and zero institutions agree with your quackery. Apparently you think that’s because you are smarter than the tens of thousands of doctors and scientists dealing with this issue. I don’t have to prove anything – nor have you by the way – I only have to quote the overwhelming expert opinion and point at the ICU’s loaded with those who agree with you.

          1. So quote them then? I will wait.
            And my quackery is an actual MS in Animal science and multiple peer reviewed science articles.
            Virtually no one, earlier you said only quacks? I have actual experience in this and actual education in this.
            You have quoted selective quotes and facts, and written off those that disagree with you, as you are doing right now. This isn’t how science works. That is scientism.
            Explain what evolutionary pressure is and how it relates to the development of resistance in pathogens? I’ll wait. Since you know so much more than me, it shouldn’t take you very long. I mean you read all these experts you should be able to school me pretty easily. I mean I only had 17 years experience as a nurse, including several years working in a vaccine clinic, and then went back to school and got a BS and MS in an actual biological science and read actual peer reviewed articles daily as part of my profession, so I am open to you”proving me wrong” and that I am a quack. I will gladly admit I am wrong if you can provide an actual peer reviewed article that states virtually no one is warning against mass vaccinations. Or anything that shows only quacks are questioning the wisdom of mass vaccinations, I am sure you have proof that those who are are not subject matter experts, well respected in their fields. I mean you can provide evidence that they are quacks.
            I am sure you can provide evidence that COVID evolution is completely different than all other pathogens in history, and I am sure you can provide evidence that vaccine resistant varieties won’t emerge.
            Hell, I’ll make it easy for you, explain how pathogen evolution leads to resistance.

      2. So far you have over interpreted the validity of primatology behavioral research as a predictive tool for modern hominid behavior, over stated the transmission rate of delta variant, misinterpreted early modern man life span data, and dismissed (I can only assume you are dismissing it since you haven’t answered any of the questions I have posed to you in that regards) the growing warnings among immunologist, virologist, and public health specialist that mass vaccinations are creating evolutionary pressure that will result in vaccine resistant varieties emerging (and the danger to at risk individuals who have already been vaccinated this will cause). You seem to be also oblivious to how the fact that COVId is fairly fast mutating and zoological impacts the viability of vaccinating our way out of this pandemic (which a growing number of virologist now state is likely to become endemic, including those at University of Washington and Harvard Medical school). In fact the one from University of Washington is the one who developed the modeling tools most used by the CDC, and now states that he once believed it was possible to functionally eradicate the virus but with the emergence new variants out of South America and Africa has changed his mind and no longer believes that is possible.

        1. soldiermedic, you confuse a realization that Covid-19 may remain with us – thanks for your part providing a host, anti-vaxxers – with a retreat from vaccinations. Prove it. Virtually no one is saying that.

          1. Define host and for your information I did take the vaccine because I am at a higher risk category.
            Please what is your degree in? Come on you are lecturing me about being confused about the science, and I have a nursing degree and a BS and MS in Animal science that requires extensive training in immunology, anatomy, physiology, genetics, microbiology and mammalian health. Surely, since you know I am confused you have more education on the matter than I do, or at least more experience.
            So far I haven’t read a single source that says that vaccine resistance isn’t a worry (I just did a pubmed search on the subject) and quite a few admit that vaccines can put an evolutionary pressure on the virus to develop resistance. So far in the review of actual peer reviewed data I just looked up the debate is not over if it will happen but how fast. Really this is a debate about how fast the virus mutates. If it is slow, mass vaccinations may not contribute markedly to the emergent of vaccine resistant varieties, or is it quick, in which case mass vaccinations will likely speed up the process by applying more evolutionary pressure.

            1. soldiermedic, as impressive as your credentials are – seriously, good for you – if you walked into this discussion cold and someone was saying “Ignore what the CDC, WHO, and virtually all reputable academic institutions and scientists are recommending on Covid vaccines and masking because I heard a guy on the internet at 1 AM todasy, with an RN and advanced degrees in Animal Sciences, say “they’re all nuts””, what would you do?

              1. I would go to the peer reviewed studies and see if he knew what he was talking about.

      3. That’s right my friend, I have no obligation to protect you from nature. Glad we could clear that up.

      4. You are absolutely correct. I have often thought about what would have happened if this crop of people had been asked to ration food or oil, or to keep blackout times to avoid bombardment.

        They’d hoard toilet paper and then ask for prayers after they got their family blown up.

        1. Or they understand science better than the proponents of mass vaccinations. Is that a possibility given the growing body of scientist who are speaking out against mass vaccinations for any not in the at risk category?

          1. soldiermedic, the overwhelming number of scientists and doctors have been speaking out about anti-vax nuts like you and yet you don;t listen. Go visit your local ICU and see what you have helped cause. The docs I know who treat these people are so depressed by the complete unnecessary death and suffering they are dealing with – you don’t want to get sick with this virus, even if you live – by the way, a study a couple of months ago showed about 20% of patients returning with heart, lung, or brain problems which may persist chronically, docs don’t know. You could just be angry at these fools, but they are humans, with kids, families and some just didn’t know better. They listened to the bulls..t soldiermedic is spewing.

            1. What makes you think I am antivaxx nut?
              And my wife works at the local hospital so I don’t need to visit it.
              You haven’t yet provided any proof that anything I stated is scientifically inaccurate. In fact all you have done is make broad statements about ‘everyone’ and quote your ‘doctor’ friends.
              Can you link to the actual study and not to a secondary source? I’d like to read the actual study.
              And BTW I can’t find evidence to your assertion that the overwhelming number of scientist aren’t concerned that vaccine resistance will develop and that none of them state that mass vaccinations may contribute to that. I haven’t found a single source in fact that doesn’t state that vaccine resistance may occur because of mass vaccinations, even the ones that recommend mass vaccinations. I actually went to pubmed to look at the actual research and not a single researcher I could find said that my concerns aren’t a scientifically valid possibility. I am sure since you know so many experts you can find me peer reviewed data from experts that shows I am wrong.

              1. Here is a hint try using pubmed or Google scholar, as they will take you to actual peer reviewed journals. Pubmed tends to be considered a better resource as they rank by reputable journals.

              2. Here is another hint, there isn’t any published data yet on the probability of a vaccine resistant variety emerging or any published data yet on the benefits of mass vaccinations or the risks of mass vaccinations, however, there is research published from the time of the vaccine development that did state that vaccinations can and do cause vaccine resistance with certain pathogens in the past and that this is a valid concern for the three vaccines which were being studied (and are now approved) but that the data to rule this out or rule it in will not be available for quite awhile. They did recommend a number of steps to use clinical trials in 2020 as earmarks to predict the possibility of vaccine resistance emerging as a result of mass vaccinations. However, from what I can gather the FDA didn’t implement most of these recommendations as it would have slowed vaccine roll out and approval. So even if your majority of scientist state I am wrong, from the literature it appears they are making that recommendation not based on any data.

              3. soldiermedic, this thread is not about you and your self regard on science, which by the way, you ignore almost all of on the issue.
                I quoted an article which summarized research rather than the numerous abstracts available touting the effectiveness – not the unreachable complete and total success – of mask wearing. You and other readers can Google them as I did.
                As to my proving a negative, yes, you are correct. I also cannot find overwhelming numbers of scientists expressing a lack of concern that a meteor might end the Bama-Mercer game this weekend in the 3rd quarter.

                1. soldiermedic, every proposal for mask or vaccine mandates I have seen includes medical exemptions. so it is unlikely to impossible that anyone would be forcing your wife to do either if her condition was verifiable.

                  1. Actually, since the rules for Biden’s medicare and medicaid requirements for hospital employees and his OSHA requirement he just proposed haven’t been written yet, you are pulling that out of your ass.

                    1. Especially if he is scientific explanation contained valid scientific facts. Because that is how science works. It isn’t built upon the idea that you defer to the authorities. I can think of multiple times the authorities were wrong and a single scientist was right throughout the history of modern science.

                    2. And I am not a single scientist stating we should pump the brakes, people with far better credentials than I are also saying whoa we should pump the brakes.

                2. Unlike you I went and did an actual literature review and so far it’s mixed or missing. Period. You provided an article from a known advocacy group that cherry picked the research and relied on a single source the APA. BTW the WHO actually doesn’t recommend masking for kids, that’s why none of Europe is masking their kids.

            2. The question becomes, if new variants develop vaccine resistance, requiring new vaccines, will those also be mandated, and when that occurs again, will then the even newer vaccines be mandated? At what point does that end?
              My stance had always been to get the vaccine if you are in an at risk group, all others should do a cost benefit analysis for their personal choice, and the government shouldn’t mandate anything. Secondly, I believe the focus on mass vaccinations is short sighted and we would be better served focusing our energy on developing better treatment. We have the prevention part, for now, the vaccine, we should now be focused on developing treatments. This hyperfocus on getting to 100% vaccination rates is a waste of energy and possibly even dangerous.
              For your information I did get the vaccine, and I got my sons also vaccinated (I did this because we live adjacent to a reservation with a high incidence of COVID, like most reservations). My wife however, I don’t feel should get the vaccine because A) she’s had the virus already and the research suggests that those who have had the virus are more prone to adverse effects and B) because she has a health history that some of the observed adverse side effects could be life threatening in her case.

              Also, 100% vaccinations isn’t a realistic goal, this virus is likely to become endemic (and yes a number of well respected scientist agree on that). And if delta, lambda and mu variants are able to escape the vaccine as much as the data suggests (if the vaccine only reduces your risk of contracting the pathogen by one-third it isn’t a great preventative) then the chance of a vaccine resistant variety emerging from the vaccinated population that contract one of these variants goes up significantly (that is basic microbiology and is seen in the development of any type of resistance rather at the micro or macro level).
              Will vaccine resistance as a result of mass vaccinations occurs? At this point the data isn’t conclusive enough to say one way or the others. But people like you and DoL piss me off with your scientism, ad hominem attacks against anyone that doesn’t toe the line, and appeals to authority. Calling well respected scientist quacks because their view is different than the view of your preferred scientist is the sign of someone who lacks the necessary critical thinking skills required to understand actual science.
              Nothing I have posted is scientifically inaccurate, nor is it outside the realm of possibility. I offered it as counterarguments to your statements. From this you decided to label me an anti-vaxx idiot, which is the furthest from the truth that can be (I’ve never once resisted getting any vaccine, nor have I am very once ever questioned the validity of any vaccine). I do however, have valid concerns (again, you haven’t offered any evidence that my concerns aren’t valid) that the push to get everyone vaccinated may cause unintended consequences. I based this upon my own extensive scientific and medical education and experience. Am I right? I don’t know and the fact is you don’t know either. I can’t find any peer reviewed research that disputes my concerns. I can’t find any peer reviewed data to support your assertion that all or almost every scientist, dismisses the possibility that mass vaccinations may lead to vaccine resistant varieties emerging.
              In case I was wrong about this and you were right, I did an actual literature review of the data tonight and couldn’t find anything that supported your assertions. See the difference between you and me, is you keep citing journalistic accounts, whereas I went to the actual peer reviewed data. And all I could find for peer reviewed data concluded yes pathogens have become vaccine resistant in the past because of vaccinations, not all but some. That it tends to be a slower process than bacteria developing antibiotic resistance (which was something new I learned) and it is a possibility that COVID vaccines could possibly result in vaccine resistance emerging. That is what the peer reviewed data states. In laymen’s terms, the research at this point says “we don’t know but it is a possibility, more research is needed to rule one way or the other”. Based on the peer reviewed articles that are currently available, neither the scientist that question the safety of mass vaccinations nor the ones that deny mass vaccinations will lead to the evolution towards vaccine resistance are doing so with any degree of data to support their positions. Given this lack of data and peer reviewed literature, you can’t label anyone a quack for not agreeing with “nearly every scientist” which I have asked you to quantify and substantiate that claim.
              As for the idea of herd immunity, this becomes extremely problematic for a variety of reasons, how fast the virus mutates, the number of cycling variants, how well each cycling variant responds to the vaccine, and the fact that it is a zoological virus. This argues again against the validity of Biden’s current approach of getting everyone vaccinated. And his and your demonization of people who choose not to get the vaccine. What do you say to my wife? The risk of her having adverse side effects that could even result in her death given her health history is equal to her having adverse reactions as a result of contracting the virus again. Should she quit her job and lock herself in her room until the virus is no longer present (which is never going to occur)? She has valid health reasons to be hesitant to get the vaccine. Is she an anti-vaxx nut too? But Biden has mandated that she has to get the vaccine because of where she works. And you defend that.
              What do you say to the people who have only had one dose, therefore aren’t considered fully vaccinated, but had a reaction and were instructed not to get any further vaccinations? Do they also have to “quarantine” until the virus ends (again not a realistic goal).
              Also, do you believe that getting more people vaccinated will end all the pain from the current spike? Because the experience of Britain and Israel (the latter which has a higher vaccination rate than the US) suggests that we would still have a spike, we would still have increase in hospitalizations, including maxing out ICU beds, we would still have increased deaths.
              I am sure your doctor friends are frustrated, I spent 17 years in medicine and can name a number of times when all our beds were filled and we had people dying and it is frustrating. Ask your doctor friends though, what is the normal patient census and how many slack beds do they normally have? If it is like any hospital I worked at, to run in the black patient census had to be in the range if 90% of beds filled. Which means we had only 10% slack beds (and I’ve worked at both small rural hospitals, and huge urban and military hospitals, in fact I worked for providence medical in Anchorage, the largest hospital in Alaska, I worked at Brooke Army Medical Center, and Madison Army Medical Center and McDonald Army Community hospital, as well as Benewah Community Hospital in St Maries, ID so I have seen almost all aspects of acute care from rural to large urban hospitals) and the one constant was we averaged 90% bed capacity every day or staff got sent home, which sucked for the civilian staff at the military facilities because cutting military staff has no impact on budgeting, so the civilian staff always got sent home. The point is that it doesn’t take a lot to fill up most hospitals. And when I worked at Brooke Army in the late 90s (Ft Sam Houston is in the barrio) because we were a level 1 trauma center we got all the civilian traumas plus the military ERs and it was a rare Friday night that we weren’t stacking patients in the hall and diverting. At the time there was a major gang war going on with the Latin Kings. I’ve seen small town Idaho ER often stacking patients every flu season, I’ve also seen it at Madigan when I was stationed there. Hell when I was stationed at Ft Eustis working at McDonald Army Community we had to open two special quarantine barracks because of influenza and the hospital being full (of course it was only a 25 bed facility) I know because I was one of the hospital staff that was tasked with manning it. Now before you get all bent out of shape and make more erroneous charges against me, I am not saying that COVID is the flu, I am just saying that in my medical career I’ve often witnessed what you say your friends are going through. And yes you do get frustrated. It is the nature of medicine. Your anecdotes are just that anecdotes and not valid data to support your demands for vaccine mandates. And I guarantee if your friends stay in medicine, even after this virus disappears or more likely becomes endemic, they will experience the same situation multiple times in their careers.

              1. And the other thing that pisses me off about Biden is he never changes his mind, evening the situation has changed. We saw it with Afghanistan, we see it with his vaccine push. And when people don’t agree with him or challenge him he strikes out at them. And doubles down. This isn’t the sign of someone who is a leader or someone who has strong critical thinking skills.

                1. And we saw it with his announcement of the approval of boosters and his declaration it will occur by September 20th. Several news sources, I closing left leaning ones, have since reported that he didn’t consult the FDA before making the announcement and it caught the FDA flat footed because they weren’t ready yet with approval for the booster and only Pfizer had gotten them the data yet to approve boosters by September 20th. Also, not to mention that the WHO says before any boosters are given that highly vaccinated nations should instead be sending vaccines to countries that aren’t as highly vaccinated.
                  You wouldn’t know it from the way Biden talks, or the way the left wing media pounds on this subject, but the US actually has a fairly high rate of vaccinated adults, compared to the rest of the world. We are comparable to most European nation (and actually higher than quite a few) way ahead of Australia and New Zealand. And only a few countries, most with small populations, actually have over 70% vaccinations rate (that was Biden’s goal in July). I’d you read the news or listen to the Whitehouse you would think that the US is way behind the rest of the world, but the data doesn’t support that analysis. Most data is on the number of doses given, but this is a poor measurement, as some vaccines require two doses and some only one dose (and in the US we have both varieties approved and available) the US does lag several countries in doses given, but in the few reports that focus on percentage of fully vaccinated adults the US is actually near the top of the list. Another thing that skews the data is the US is one of the few countries that has vaccines approved for under 18. So the US is currently pushing vaccines for everyone over the age of 12 while most countries are pushing vaccines for only those over 18. It creates a mess to analyze the data and do apples to apples comparisons.
                  As for hospitalization rates, death rates and ICU bed rates per 1000 people the US really isn’t experiencing anything extraordinary.

              2. soldiermedic, are you talking to me?

                1. No, I am talking to the other guy who called me an anti vax nut, who supports these mandates and only cited a single article from a known advocacy group and is offering personal anecdotes as proof.
                  Of course I am talking to you.

        2. I mean, that’s completely different than a natural pathogen with a better than 99% survival rate, but the government shouldn’t be able to FORCE you to ration either.

          I get the feeling you don’t understand what a limited government is.

    3. Immanuel Kant was a real pissant.

    4. If, as a growing number of virologist, immunologist, and public health specialist are correct that mass vaccinations are actually contraindicated and may in fact create more problems than they solve (i.e. the increasing likelihood that mass vaccinations will result in vaccine resistant varieties) isn’t it the proponents of mass vaccinations the ones who are being irresponsible?

    5. You were in the Army and deployed to Afghanistan, and as one of my duties involved medical and vaccine review for deploying soldiers I know this for a fact, you were vaccinated with a variety of vaccines that are not administered routinely to CONUS deployed soldiers, why do you think that is? One of the ones everyone in the Army receives is Meningococcal B vaccine, but this isn’t recommended for the general population (it is recommended for college students, service members and high school students going to public school but not for home schooled kids and young adults not living in a group environment) why does the Army give it, but if you are a soldier aged adult not living in a group environment you aren’t recommended to get it? Did you stop and think about that when you were standing in the SRP line with your sleeves rolled up?

      1. If I remember correctly on top of the normal vaccinations required for CONUS troops, those deploying to Afghanistan had to also receive yellow fever, small pox, anthrax, and plague. This was always a bitch because several of those are live attenuated vaccines and can’t be co administered so you could only receive a couple on any given day and had to come back to receive the rest at a later date. This always fucked things up when the SRP date was within a week of shipout date and resulted in many soldiers having to wait until they got in theater to finish their vaccinations. This was a big problem with Reserve and Guard component soldiers, and less of a problem with active component, as active component often had enough lead up time get their shot records in order. Of course, I am also sure this problem has been corrected over the war, but in 2003 it was a common occurrence with reserve and guard components.

    6. Freedom means that you get to help choose your elected officials, and in return they respect the legal limits on their authority. This speech alone was an impeachable offense. Anyone at OSHA attempting to implement such a scheme should be facing federal civil rights charges and the 10 year federal prison term that goes with them.

  61. And here I was thinking Biden’s popularity couldn’t sink any lower than it had after the Afghanistan withdrawal debacle. At this rate he’s going to lose worse than Mondale did. Except his opponent won’t be nearly as moderate or as reasonable as Reagan.

    1. You assume he will run for re-election at the age of 82.

    2. Yeah, CE, he’s in Trump territory but with 3+ years to get out of it and no more Afghanistan medicine for the country to take.

  62. almost everyday Reason warned the former president was a tyrant and dictator. Now the current president is a tyrant and dictator but yet we hear the word inconsistent and overreach instead. I am starting to wonder if Reason is part of the Left propaganda machine?

    “he will have claimed startling new powers for himself”— come on Reason, call it what it is, tyranny and dictatorship.

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