No, Biden, This Is About Freedom and Personal Choice
It's time to stop "states of exception" that justify government overreach into more and more of our lives.

There is every reason to believe that President Joe Biden's vaccine mandate for COVID-19 will not survive legal scrutiny even as compulsory vaccination for the disease enjoys broad popularity among the public. As former Rep. Justin Amash (L–Mich.)—like me, a pro-vaccine, anti-mandate libertarian—has bluntly noted, "There is no authority for this. This is a legislative action that bypasses the legislative branch."
The courts will almost certainly strike down this executive branch overreach and the sweeping new rules that wave away longstanding distinctions between public and private spheres of activity. This is what happened to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's eviction moratorium. It's foundational to American life that the president is not a king who can subject citizens to his whims.
Yet the most important passage in Biden's remarks reveals a governing philosophy that should give all Americans pause, especially in light of the massive and ongoing expansion of the federal government over the past several decades. After duly noting the "progress" made in terms of vaccinations, Biden pulled up short to say that we the people are just not doing what he wants when he wants:
This is not about freedom or personal choice. It's about protecting yourself and those around you — the people you work with, the people you care about, the people you love.
My job as president is to protect all Americans. So tonight, I'm announcing that the Department of Labor is developing an emergency rule to require all employers with 100 or more employees that together employ over 80 million workers to ensure their work forces are fully vaccinated or show a negative test at least once a week.
Contra Biden, everything is always (or should be) about freedom and personal choice. That libertarian sentiment defines America's ethos and can't simply be written out of the script because it gets in the way of what this or any other president wants. There are legitimate moments when rights can be abrogated due to actual existential threats, but this is certainly not one of them.

As Jeffrey A. Singer, a surgeon and senior fellow for the Cato Institute, has noted, COVID-19 has a "0.2 percent fatality rate among people not living in institutions." Fully 80 percent of deaths have occurred among people over 65 and just 358 children under the age of 17 had died of the disease as of July 29, 2021. We are not talking about smallpox, which affected all populations and had a fatality rate of 30 percent. COVID, argues Singer, "will not be eradicated" and will become a small-scale, endemic problem that should be minimized by targeted interventions to protect the most vulnerable. From a public health perspective, it should not become the casus belli for a radical restructuring of society and a massive expansion of presidential (or governmental) powers.
Vaccines are not only effective against getting COVID-19 in the first place, they virtually guarantee you will not die or even be hospitalized if you do contract it. Let Washington state's King County—where the first cases of COVID presented back in early 2020—stand in for the nation as a whole. Unvaccinated people there are seven times more likely to catch COVID, 50 times more likely to be hospitalized, and 30 times as likely to die. Age-adjusted death rates show the benefits of vaccination in unmistakable terms (see chart above).
The rapid development and deployment of safe and effective vaccines—a medical miracle that could have gone months faster had the Food and Drug Administration not acted as ploddingly as a wizened old draft horse—makes possible the return to normalcy that was promised in the early days of the pandemic. We are now capable of setting and enforcing our own risk limits on what sorts of activities we want to do. The information is out there and individuals, employers, and establishments can set and are setting their own rules based on what they want. If we don't all agree, that's not chaos, that's freedom in all its unregimented, varied glory. It allows comedian Patton Oswalt to cancel shows in places that won't follow his protocols while letting other performances to take place under less-stringent conditions.
As important, the "vaccine-hesitant" are hesitant for all sorts of reasons. Poorer people tend to be less vaccinated than average, and so are blacks and Hispanics and younger people, and, weirdly, people with doctorates. A flat, imperious mandate that doesn't speak to these groups' differing concerns will only sharpen political and cultural divides even as Biden claims to be acting in the name of national unity. This is already happening, as individuals and groups are becoming less nuanced in their responses and simply signing up for whatever political tribe they feel bound to. Hence, a sizeable chunk of conservative Republicans are not simply anti-vaccine mandate but anti-vaccine, and the ACLU, which only a few years ago denounced most vaccine mandates, has now fully embraced them. While done in the name of protecting "all Americans," Biden's mandate clearly escalates ongoing culture wars.
So even as he ends the war in Afghanistan, Biden beefs up the war on COVID. It's understandable, wanting to be a wartime president, whether the threats to the country are truly existential or mostly invented and overstated (as they certainly were in the war on terror). Being at war ushers in what the Italian philosopher Giorgio Agamben calls a "state of exception," which allows the leaders of nominally limited governments to suspend restrictions on their power.
Heavily influenced by Michel Foucault, who like the public-choice economists argued that power is routinely expanded using medicalized "helper rhetoric," Agamben was a leading critic of the global war on terror when Western powers, including and especially the United States, vastly expanded surveillance, police, and military actions in the wake of the 9/11 attacks—always in the name of defending a free society (go here for a video lecture I gave at Bard College on this). When his Italian government started one of the first and most draconian lockdowns related to COVID-19, he sounded the alarm again even as many of his leftist allies called him crazy. Yet over the past several decades, governments at all levels in the United States and elsewhere have squandered whatever trust and confidence we once accorded them. When it comes to the Covid-19 response, our official agencies can no longer claim the benefit of the doubt due to an ongoing series of "arbitrary, dubious, and ever-changing recommendations."
Yet rather than use persuasion and dialogue to get his way, Biden is invoking a state of exception as the pretext for issuing a massive expansion of his power over more and more aspects of our daily lives (Donald Trump, Barack Obama, George W. Bush, and other past presidents all did something similar, of course). We must push back not simply because of what his new order would actually do but because of the expansion of political power it continues and expands.
We want to live in a country and a world in which "freedom or personal choice" is growing, not constantly being swept aside as an obstacle to a leader's plan.
Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
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Unwritten rule... you NEVER go full libertarian.
Think how much better we would all be if someone actually did go full libertarian.
Hey, Brandyshit! Got your guy! Aren't you happy now that your father-figure doesn't mean tweet, asshole?
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Depending upon their age, and I assume they are under 65, they are not really at risk. If they are under 18 the risk is functionally 0.
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If your "personal choice" puts my grandchildren at risk, it's not your personal choice any more. We don't let people exercise their personal choice to drive at 110 mph on the freeway, because it puts others in danger. I don't see how
refusing to take preventive measures for Covid 19 is any different.
Depending upon their age, and I assume they are under 65, they are not really at risk. If they are under 18 the risk is functionally 0.
And even if everyone was vaccinated (which isn't possible) there would still be some risk.
As for your speed limit analogy. Here in Montana the speed limit on highways is 70 and on interstates is 80, whereas other states it's 60 and 70 respectfully. If speed limit were set exclusively to reduce risk, the speed limit would be zero.
Not clear if you support speed limits. Do you? Or should people be free to use their own judgment what speed they can safely drive?
I have no real opinion on speed limits, but using them as an example of risk avoidance is fraught with errors.
If you had looked into the detailed history of the inception of speed limits (& seatbelts for that matter) you would find striking parallels with whats happening today with masks and vaccines.
Superficially. At best.
And yes I am well aware of the history of speed limits. I am also very familiar with pathophysiology, immunology and microbiology. Only someone with a superficial understanding of immunology and microbiology would see anything but superficial parallels.
No, not really.
Government owns the roads so government sets the speed limits. Does government own your body?
Lets just ignore the speed limit is LOCALLY legislated.
And that the property is publicly owned.
So if you leave your house and walk on a publicly funded sidewalk, you must receive the vaccine.
Got it.
I wouldn't support such draconian laws. But if Nazi-Obama can pass national laws that make not purchasing healthcare a legal FINE in the name of 'registering' you on Nazi-Healthcare. Not sure Cities would be denied the ability to FINE UN-Vaccinated people on public property.
.... Because that's what Nazi's do...
Are you and your family being rounded up and taken to a gas chamber for summary killing?
While yes it protects others, speed limits are also set to protect you. While there are some places you could drive 100 and probably be within the design parameters of the road, like out in West Texas because it is flat, most of the time they are designed within parameters that allow you to not fly off the road on a curve or be able to see something in the road over a hill, etc.
Also it is a government road so they get to set the rules versus the government setting trying to dictate rules at a private copmany.
I hope authoritarians like you always demanded that everyone get the flu shot. Seeing as how the flu kills WAY more children. I'd hate for you guys to be complete hypocrites.
"If your “personal choice” puts my grandchildren at risk, it’s not your personal choice any more..."
If you hope to live in a risk-free world, please commit suicide NOW! Save the sane people your pathetic whining.
Sound line you wish to live in a world with no risk mitigation measures of any kind. Because any risk mitigation is based on some acknowledgment of the risk - and only wimps do that.
Fuck off you totalitarian troll. Your solution is to demand the illusion of absolute security for the very real loss of all liberty. DIAF you worm.
In the REAL world you have carefully curated liberties only, not carte blanche, as you imagine/desire. You can of course rationalize yourself into believing you don't care for the liberties you don't have.
You don’t have a right to not get sick.
Sounds like you love to drag strawmen around and you also love licking boots.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
If you're grandchildren are vaccinated, they are not at risk. It's like driving without a seatbelt fastened.
I'm confused...are your grandchildren 80 years old? Hmmmm.....
Your and your granchildren can suck my fat fucking cock you bootlicking piece of shit. I hope with everything I have that you live long enough to watch them get their brains splattered all over the wall by the regime you supported right before they put one through your own skull you pathetic fucking faggot.
now, now, no need to bring sexual orientation into this.
You driving the speed limit puts many grandchildren at risk.
Precisely the same reasoning was used to justify Prohibition.
And look how well that worked.
Get flu vaccination every year? Don't let your kids bring nuts to school? (My grandchildren have severe nut allergies.) Quit smoking? (For people who are asthmatics.) Lose weight? (So your co-morbidities don't overwhelm hospitals.) Put a governor on you car to limit it to 55? (Remember 55 saves lives.) Wear 2 seat belts? (Because if one works, then two must be better.) Live in a 600 square foot house and reduce your energy consumption to less than 500 kw-hours per year? (Have to reduce that carbon foot print.) If you do all that get back to me, I have another list I can give you. If you do all those, I still won't consider forcing people to get the vaccine.
If you’re that afraid, you Andy your grandchildren can huddle in fear in your basement. Leave the rest of us alone, or else.
There used to be a federally mandated speed limit of 55 mph. It demonstrably saved lives. We still got rid of it. Your grandchildren, just like mine, are at more risks from traffic accidents that Covid, even at speeds much lower than 110.
That limit was because of gasoline availability, not safety.
45,000 people die in car wreck every year. A speed limit of 0, banning cars, would save all of them. "If it saves just one life..."
Bee stings are a regular killer, claiming more lives than gruesome shark attacks.
Time to ban honey.
You can take my life, take my land but you can't take my liberty, the mead is still free... Browncoats forever.
It was mead right he was singing about?
Oh and fuck Fox we deserved a season 2.
It's a poor argument, if she wants he grandchildren to be reasonably safe from being infected with the COVID, they should be vaccinated.
Afterall, that is 'why' you get a vaccination.
Your personal choice to get vaccinated takes away others ability to know if you are sick with Covid-19. Just like people were taking Tylenol to hide their fevers all these stupid shots do is prevent people from knowing (hides symptoms) to stay home or to stay away.
If you don't see the differences, then you are too ignorant to be permitted to express an opinion in public.
If you want to protect your grand kids and are worried about covid, why aren’t you vaccinating them?
We don’t let people exercise their personal choice to drive at 110 mph on the freeway, because it puts others in danger.
As someone who's both driven 110mph on multiple freeways and interstate highways and as someone who's driven a solid 90 mph and had other motorists blow my doors off, I can attest that we do, in fact, let people exercise their personal choice to drive at 110 mph on the freeway.
I've seen far more cars stopped for driving too fast in a school zone than I've seen for driving 110 mph on freeway. If you want to protect your grandchildren targeted regulation is more reasonable and practical option.
Under the age of 5, drowning is the number 1 cause of death among children. For all minors, motor vehicle accidents (predominantly single-car) are the number 1. These are both true even with COVID. Seems reasonable to me that we should limit your personal choice to having your grandkids visit, raise the driving age for them to 18 or even 21, and prevent you from driving them anywhere; especially to the pool or the beach. I don't see how that's any less reasonable than taking preventative measures for COVID. I *can* see how it's a lot less oppressive to a lot more people. Don't worry, your grandkids will be able to visit you when they turn 21.
Get the fuck out of here. This has nothing to do with your grandkids; this has to do with the fact that your old "Me Generation" Boomer ass is finally coming to grips with the fact that you could get knocked over by a simple bout of pneumonia.
But you are merely presuming that one can exercise "personal choice" with NO risk to your grandchildren.
This is a faulty assumption. To live in any society of people -- your own immediate family included! -- is to expose yourself at risk. A toddler can leave a toy on the stairs which could be fatal to you or anyone else in your family.
You are trying to over-simplify something that cannot be simplified. Life itself is a risk.
Hey pumpkin, your grandchildren aren't at risk from anyone who isn't sick, which at any point is 99.9%+ of us and if they do get sick, is far more likely to happen by their exposure to you and other family they know than strangers, unless you're really stupid and take them to crowded places you shouldn't.
4100 kids die a year in car accidents vs 412 that died from Covid in 1.5 years. That means they are at far greater risks from people out on the road doing stupid stuff, and you gramps are driving them around... your personal choice. So isn't it YOU and your family who is a far greater threat to your own grandchildren?
Don't let the media driven paranoia drive the stupidity.
Grandparent.
We do let people exercise their personal choice in speeding. It is the consequence of that choice that the law identifies and provides a remedy. What you're advancing is eradication of choice NOT based on science or fundamental rights. Rather, you are for compulsory actions based solely on an ignorant and limited position that you are a grandfather.
The risk to your grandchildren is very small. Your basic point about citizenship is valid. We are in a war against Covid which may or may not have been intentionally launched by the Chinese Communist Party. In any case it has killed more Americans than WW2. Vaccinations are our best weapon and those refusing are like WW2 draft dodgers wanting someone else to do the fighting. Unvaccinated people provide a reservoir for Covid to survive and mutate into more deadly variants.
Yes, lets be libertarian. No restrictions or precautions of any kind. Let the virus do its thing. Why interfere with nature. After all, pandemics are a forest fire of sorts - running thru our species every century or so, and filtering out the weak, infirm and old - and leaving only the strong. Some say the black plague of Europe produced a hardier race and may have been a factor in western civilization pulling ahead of other civilizations of that age. A missed opportunity, this pandemic. All the hand washing, masks, distancing and vaccine, only 650k or so filtered out. Could have been 2 or 3 times that number - leaving only the fittest of the fit. Alas, its almost too late. The savings in medicare would have been worth it alone. But there is still hope. Anti mask and vaccine forces are alive and well and fighting to the finish.
Vaccines are ineffective at stopping the spread. So are masks. All vaccines do is protect the vaccinated, and that’s fully your own personal choice.
"Yes, lets be libertarian. No restrictions or precautions of any kind..."
Naah, lets be steaming piles of lefty shit who are total ignoramuses and drag strawmen around to make up for it. Like this asshole.
My body, my choice.
And you utterly ignore the BIGGEST FACTOR; Whether or not Gov-Guns are being used against the people. The very factor that creates totalitarian autocratic monarchies.
What's funny is COVID herd immunity would prove more beneficial to anyone under 60-years old. And the older one's have vaccination available.
So in the end; the real reason the Nazi-Party is pushing for Gov-Gun Totalitarian leadership is because ... well, that's what Power-Mad Nazi's do.
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Oh my God!!!! Did the jacket actually come to within a cunt hair or criticizing old Uncle Joe??? I know he said "the most important passage in Biden's remarks reveals a governing philosophy that should give all Americans pause", when he sorta actually meant "this is final proof that Uncle Joe is out of what's left of his addled fucking mind", and i can understand that he could not bring himself to state the obvious truth, so he obfuscated with " a medical miracle that could have gone months faster had the Food and Drug Administration not acted as ploddingly as a wizened old draft horse" when he really meant to say "if only the FDA would have listened to Trump." We all know, sadly, that the Jacket would castrate himself with a tuna fish lid before he would ever give Trump credit for anything.
No, pleather may call out government in theory, but he appears to like it just fine in practice.
So libertarian means no community support for others, allow anarchy with a checkbook to rule. Then refuse firefighters, police,
ambulances when you need help, and refuse medical treatment for pain, suffering and medical health.
Great philosophy until you have no supply chain for your wine, food, cars, computers, and clothes. Great philosophy when your military protection is handicapped by unvaccinated personnel. How many shots doe they have when they enlist? Guess we are not a Christian nation..
A Christian doesn't obsess over the worries of the world, because their reward is in heaven.
Actually you aren't describing libertarianism but anarchy. Secondly, the idea of freedom of body autonomy is a long standing plank of the libertarian party. Most libertarians believe abortion to be immoral but don't want to ban it because of body autonomy is the first freedom anyone has. And libertarians have long been opponents of mandatory vaccines, even while being pro-vaccine.
As for police and firefighters and ambulances, there are private fire departments and ambulances and police. Their are also volunteer fire departments and ambulances (in fact the majority of fire departments and ambulances are volunteer). This would be how many libertarians would offer those services.
As for military, libertarians recognize the need to defend a nation, so most aren't opposed to a standing army, just the size of it. And are absolutely opposed to conscription.
It really isn't a hard concept except for people who deal in absolutes.
Libertarians are not against the vaccine, they are against the president mandating the vaccine. The constitution doesn’t give that power to the president.
"So [straw] libertarian means no community support for others, allow anarchy with a checkbook to rule. Then refuse firefighters, police, . . . "
Strawman fallacies are easily identified, and dismissed as a fallacious reasoning.
You notice that he didn't go with something like "If you want your welfare and UI checks to keep coming, you have to get vaccinated."
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That's the funniest thing I've read in a while.
Two enthusiastic thumbs up!
Sorry Nick, but you were mean to Trump. That means you wanted all of this to happen. Only those pure of heart who still unwaveringly believe the election was stolen may criticize Biden. Everyone else is getting what they wanted.
BOOOOATH SIDEZZZZZZ!!!1!!eleventy-one!!!
Nah. Just preemptively mocking the "YOU WERE MEAN TO TRUMP SO YOU WANTED THIS WAAAHHH!" crowd.
Right on time too.
BOOOOATH SIDEZZZZZZ!!!1!!eleventy-one!!!
But you repeat yourself.
This isn't even a both sides issue. It's strictly Biden being an authoritarian dick.
But if you were mean to Trump last year you wanted this to happen. Because being mean to poor Trump equals total support for the other side.
So fuck you Nick! You were mean to Trump! You can't criticize Biden because being mean to Trump equals 100% support for Biden!
You wanted this!
Aaaauuughhhh!!!
BOOOOATH SIDEZZZZZZ!!!1!!eleventy-one!!!
Now you're just being retarded.
A classic example of jeffsarc looking the mirror and seeing only his failure as a human being.
"But you repeat yourself."
He didn't try to get Biden elected, Brandyshit.
With Biden being the alternative to Trump you ducking drunk idiot.
I'm unvaccinated because Trump paid for the vaccines up front. I said as much when he announced Operation Warp Speed. There were plenty around here who, in Mar. of 2020 when Trump was President, said we should take pause from the lockdowns. They were critical of Reason then, before Biden, for not being more vociferously libertarian on the topic.
None of that matters. What matters is Reason forumites, many of whom were critical of Nick and Reason during the lockdowns be nice to Nick now that Biden's President because Nick has been such a paragon of principled opposition to Trump or lockdowns or Biden or something, I dunno. Point is, you're an hyperpartisan invalid if you hate Nick and love Trump. Even if you disliked Nick's reporting and have mocked The Jacket since the Obama Administration or his 'OMG! What if Christians took over Capitalism' panic or his "Why can't rural hicks just move to the city" sermon. Sure, such opposition to Nick and Reason might seem a little bit libertarian (Whaddya gonna do? End capitalism to spite the Christians?) but you can tell that all those people are really Trump-loving hyperpartisans sarcasmic is above the retarded left/right both sidez bullshit.
When you're sitting on the sidelines like me and laughing at players and fans alike, as opposed to cheering or playing the game like you, you notice that the differences between the opposing teams are mostly superficial.
I thought you were blind to the game?
Glad you agree with me. It's a start.
GFY, gaslighting tool
Why doesnt everyone ignore this prick? Je hasnt added to a topic - ever.
Hd hijacks every topic to make it sbout himself
Stop feeding the troll. Mute him.
I did. Threads are enriched by his lack.
Just because you sucked the dick of every Reason.com writer who promised, when asked, that they were going to vote for Biden, doesn't mean you supported Biden or anything. Just because you spent the last 18 months calling for mask mandates, accusing anyone who didn't wear two masks of being literally responsible for the death of your grandmother, doesn't mean you aren't a bootlicking faggot.
Who the fuck do you think is fooled by your bullshit you fat, drunken, welfare-leeching piece of shit? Maybe if you ever took responsibility for your actions you wouldn't have an ex-wife with sole custody of the kids you used to molest.
Yeah, sarcasmic, you’re an even worse prick than “both sides”. People like you complete the Trinity of awfulness in American politics.
The Pfizer vaccine was NOT part of Operation Warp Speed.
It was financed primarily by the German government.
Take it up with the GAO.
A 'team pfizer' shill? First I've seen here. We should dart it and put a tag in its ear to track its movements.
My problem is that Nick and The Gang worked very hard last year to trash Trump and were very light on criticism of Biden. Now it’s too late.
It's almost like they wanted a daddy-figure instead of a guy who did more for libertarians than any POTUS in the last hundred years!
Sort of like M4e; 50-something going on 13.
Nick argued that Stalinism wasn't real communism.
Strangely, the people who lived under Stalin said it felt pretty real.
It was just an idea!
They were the lucky ones.
Standing before the woman, Jesus said unto the crowed, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Aware of their hubris, the the people dropped their stones and slowly shuffled away. Then from the back came a stone and struck the adulteress upon the head, killing her instantly
Turning back in exasperation, Jesus yelled, "Goddammit Trump!"
In fairness to both sides, you can't criticize Nick because even after that, Jesus still loved Trump.
Turning back from the most libertarian POTUS we've had, Brandyshit said "Give me BIDEN!"
Actually that parable should finish:
As the crowd started to shuffle away, Jesus picked up a stone and bashed in the woman's head. He looked at the crowd and said "If you wait to find one who is without sin before ever punishing someone then there will never be justice, for all of you have sin. I have just forgiven it in you."
Nick, on the other hand, said “ok” and tried to lob a rock at Jesus himself.
This is the first time, after over eight full months, the first time that Reason has found something worth criticizing in the Biden regime. And even then the criticism is slightly milder than their criticism of Trump
taking our troops out of SyriaAbandoning Our Kurdish Allies.But yeah, both sides or something.
That's an idiotic take. As a longtime Reason reader, like many I was shocked at the magazine's election coverage. It was a binary choice, and the magazine took the occasion to continue to run with a "pox on both houses" take...which, by definition, took zero account of the (manifest) much greater looming threat of a cretinous Biden administration.
Feel free to continue to sarcastically reduce that observation to "Waaah, you didn't like Trump's tweets! You were mean to him!" BTW, sarcasm is, on its own, a fairly lazy & annoying form of humor.
As an aside, I am lazy and annoying even without my sarcasm. So I'm doubly so.
Lighten up, Francis.
Finally muted, you fucking drunk failure. Cry harder.
Yay!
Until tomorrow when it turns out you were "spoofed" or "hacked" again.
Isn’t it pathetic?
Pretty sure Sarc fell into a bottle during the Afghanistan fuckup and has yet to crawl out.
Either way, he has nothing factual, rational or entertaining to say, so fuck it. At least SQRSLY is amusing. Sarc is depressing and angry like a bum under a bridge with a gov't iPhone.
Nick, isn’t this the guy you wanted?
Haaaaa ha ha ha ha! Right on cue!!!!
Yeah. Those evil hyperpartisans who've wanted to take pause since Mar. '20, Nov. '20, Jan. '21... are the unprincipled shills. Not Nick who thinks *now* is when we should pause and think about our response to the pandemic.
He was mean to Trump which makes him a leftist. Only leftists criticize Trump. Love Trump or be a leftist. That's it. You're either with him or with his enemies. If you didn't vote for Trump then you wanted this.
A hyperpartisan who wanted to take pause in 2020 loved Trump?
You must be able to tell that with your super-special BOOOOATH SIDEZZZZZZ!!!1!!eleventy-one!!! glasses.
If by that you mean I'm not blinded by blind partisanship, then yes.
You are, you are blinded by your love of democrats and Joe Biden whom you voted for, jeff sarc.
Grow up, little girl.
Right. You're blind to blind partisanship the way Ibram X is blind to blind racism. Completely blind to it and, somehow, still able to see it *everywhere*.
Unlike you, I don't judge news, facts, entertainment, menu choices, jobs, and literally everything under the sun through a political lens.
Instead I mock people like you who do.
Blind to partisanship. Blind to politics. One might rightly begin to question what it is you actually do see.
"I see stupid people. Walking around like regular people. They don't see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don't know they're stupid. They're everywhere."
It’s not what you see; it’s that you’re a fucking lefty pile of shit.
You need a new brand of laxative, old man.
"I see stupid people. Walking around like regular people. They don’t see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don’t know they’re stupid. They’re everywhere.”
So your blindness makes you unable to see other stupid people like yourself.
Seriously, there are a lot of differences between ghosts and partisans, many of them center around the fact that ghosts don't just decide to come back to life or wake up one morning and realize they've been dead when they should've been alive and spring back to life the way stupid people, partisans or other, can realize that they've been stupid, and stop doing those stupid things. You can't really be a ghost on one topic and be alive on the next the way you can be stupid about one topic and intelligent about the next. Either you're dead or not.
Ignoring all those differences and saying what you said really makes it seem like you're calling yourself a stupid person.
"You need a new brand of laxative, old man."
Why? You hungry?
You just think that anybody who disagrees with you or falls to the right of Lenin on the political spectrum is a Trump-worshiping personality cultist and spend 8-16 hours a day, every day of your life, whining like a pathetic faggot about how persecuted you are by literally everyone, up to an including your ex-wife and the judge who gave her full custody of the kids you were molesting.
Even his invocation of loving Trump he routinely construes with fanatically obsessive devotion. I love my wife. If you think I've disagreed with her less than people I hate over any given decision, policy, or opinion, you'd be mistaken. If you think I can't make a decision, objective or not, because of or in spite of my love for my wife, you'd be mistaken.
By his own description, he a blind man watching a football game convinced he's the smartest guy in the stadium.
Hahahahahahahaha, the fuck you aren’t.
If that were remotely true, you wouldn’t have shit posted your op and continually collectivize anyone who dares to criticize Reason.
You don’t have any arguments. You’re just a whining, faggoty bitchcunt.
Stfu you idiot troll.
Nick has been arguing against this nonsense since 2020.
Vaccinations or lockdowns? Cite.
When???
Sorry, but it's not unreasonable to point out that hair-on-fire Trump haters helped bring this about.
One time grandpa found some chicken feathers in an owl pellet. He promptly shot the great horned owl who lived in the barn rafters.
Within a couple months, the barn was overrun with rats and pigeons who ended up costing grandpa way more than the owl would have.
Moral: You pick the pest you can live with.
Moral: You pick the pest you can live with.
I wonder which pest the 12 dead marines in Kabul picked.
Military personnel vote republican by a huge margin. It’s part of why democrats hate them so much.
It's time to stop "states of exception" that justify government overreach into more and more of our lives.
Well you're at least a couple of years late, but better late than never, I guess. What happened?
I hear what you're saying, but it's futile. I've been warning both Team Red and Team Blue about this for decades. And you see where we are now.
A free, robustly effective vaccine with negligible side effects? Science and government are sure doing their part for the modern world. I suppose capitalists get some credit too, but they took government money to do it.
It will be good when you’re dead.
I'm guessing Tony bought some Pfizer stock after he cashed out his rent boy bonds.
Free? We are paying for it with our taxes.
Robustly effective ? Then why are there so many "break through" cases ? Look at Israel, U.K., Cape cod.
Negligible side effects? Vaers shows 14000 dead.
Science? Once you have tainted the control group, there can be no claim of scientific data.
The only part being played is that of an authoritarian government.
And the it was payed for with the peoples money.
^Perfectly stated...
Once you have tainted the control group, there can be no claim of scientific data.
You’re not paying for shit with your taxes. Didn’t you notice the national debt?
And didn't you notice inflatiin, which national debt has always been a prime driver of. So yes we are paying for it.
Shitstain's grasp of finances is limited to making sure he has still has some checks.
You are a GD idiot I still pay taxes.
As a matter of fact I pay more taxes than any employee because I run a business, so I pay self employment taxes as well as the full cost of my social security instead of half.
Are we to deduce from your vacuous comment that being in debt makes everything free? Our national debt is out of control because of morons like you.
"but they took government money to do it." -- Not really an effect of the cause. No one will ever know if 'it took' STEALING to create it because the STEALING happened whether it did or not.
But in comparison of all industries; those not taking STOLEN money are pretty well known to be 100x more innovating, 100x more efficient, 100x more cost effective than the Gov-Gun toting ones.
The 16,000 people killed and 500,000 injured by the vaccine will no doubt be psyched to find out that it has negligible side effects. I'm sure they're happy they mitigated their 1 in 10,000 chance of dying from COVID down to a 1 in 11,000 chance of dying from the vaccine.
When are we going to get mandatory condoms for faggots like you who take a 1 in 72 chance every time they take another man's cock up their ass, Tones? And of course, we'll need to see proof that you aren't an AIDS-infested faggot before we let you shop for groceries. Can't be too safe, you know.
robustly effective vaccine
It mitigates symptoms and does nothing to prevent the spread. That meets no scientific body's definition of robust.
Yeah it just gives you an eleven-fold survival advantage.
That isn't how you measure robustness of a vaccine.
And you carry 251 times the viral load of any unvaxed sick individual (published in the lancet by oxford medical group).
Chuck P, that's false. Except by very rare surface transmission, you must be infected to spread the virus. Vaccinated have only a 1/3 chance of the unvaccinated of being infected, and therefore a 1/3 chance of spreading tit.
Death is a negligible side effect?
So we have to keep killing hundreds of thousands of people from covid so that you can piss your panties in fear over a virtually nonexistent risk of death?
Considering the high rate of vaccinations among the at risk population, the chances of hundreds of thousands of deaths is close to zero.
COVID has a virtually non-existent risk of death for any given individual under the age of 60 or so. The estimated age-specific
is very low for children and younger adults (e.g., 0.002% at age 10 and 0.01% at age 25) but increases progressively to 0.4% at age 55, 1.4% at age 65, 4.6% at age 75, and 15% at age 85.
OTOH, for someone age 75, the actuarial probability of them dying of any cause within a year is 3.45% already. And for 85 year old, the actuarial probability of death is 9.5%.
If you're under age 75 or so, COVID is 99.5% (or more) survived. About half of all COVID infected people never develop symptoms! Well north of 95% of all infections resolve without medical intervention. Only a small fraction need treatment, let alone hospitalization. A small fraction of those will die, and some small fraction of those died FROM COVID instead of COVID being a complication factor in their ongoing battle against other co-morbidities.
You knew we were doing GOF research in China decades ago? Seems like informing people about the ramifications of such research would've been more effective at preventing the outbreak rather than lecturing Republicans and Democrats not to vote for Republicans or Democrats respectively. Or did you mix it up and try to (e.g.) convince Republicans they shouldn't oppose abortion because it would inevitably lead to a Democratic President mandating vaccinations? I bet that was real effective.
They don't call Reason "the in-flight magazine of Air Force One" for nothing. I am confident the Beltwaytarians will bring the full force of the prestige and popularity of the libertarian brand name, across all ideological demographics, upon the powers that be.
That was, I presume, the plan when Nick took to these very pages to (with commendable directness and clarity) plead for an iron alignment with those who supported open borders and trade agreements against the dreaded "populism," with such petty issues as guns and so forth to be settled later among those right on the big picture.
I thought it was because the flight crew was making do with some budget cuts...
What a fucking retarded hill to literally die on.
The unvaccinated are younger than the general population.
Forcing people to be injected against their will is indeed a big deal.
No it isn’t. Do you want to end the pandemic or do you want it to continue indefinitely? Life is about the hard choices, son. It’s not all rainbows and blowjobs, whatever libertarians might say.
A big deal is forcing humans to die by the hundreds of thousands because of your misguided conception of personal freedom. Consider what damage you’re doing to your philosophy with this insane shit. We’re under no obligation to live by it if it keeps killing people.
The correct choice is to get rid of marxists like you.
First of all I dispute the word "pandemic" because the dangers of this virus are totally overblown. Second I totally support people being vaccinated, just not against their will. And finally this "pandemic" will indeed go on indefinitely just like it's cousin the common cold, because that's what these kinds of viruses do.
We're at a crossroads between tyranny and accepted risk. I choose accepted risk.
It's obvious what you prefer.
Hospitals are turning away cancer patients and millions are dead. Yeah. Overblown. You’re so much smarter than all the concerned scientists in the world.
I keep hearing that around here in so many words, yet I see none of your names on any papers.
Millions worldwide. And some hospitals might be referring patients for care to other hospitals. Besides most cancer care is done outpatient and inpatient care is generally done on dedicated oncology wards, which shouldn't be effected by COVID, since those patients will be in ICU and med-surg wards. The reason cancer care is limited is because staff was laid off last year because of poorly planned lock down rules, additionally many nursing staff is quitting because of vaccine mandates. So all staffing shortage is the result of pandemic policies.
Sure soldiermedic, we don;t need those ICU beds. I don't know why they even have them except for stupid Covid patients.
Did that make sense to you when you types it?
Hospitals are turning away cancer patients
Citing cancer treatments as a consequence of a COVID crush is doing it wrong. Any hospital that can't handle its oncology load has utterly misplaced its priorities and its management deserves to be summarily fired.
Yeah. Overblown.
Over the past month 40% of our adult COVID+ hospitalizations were admitted for non-COVID reasons. The state reports them the same. There is no universe where that's not overblown.
You’re so much smarter than all the concerned scientists in the world.
Scientists are trained to have an extremely narrow focus on their area of expertise. Second and third order effects are meaningless to most of them. We shouldn't blindly defer to them re: public health for the same reason we shouldn't blindly defer to generals when fighting wars.
I'm sure you know such knowledge is wasted on shitstain, but thanks from those of us not brain-dead.
So the many scientists and doctors that have great concerns about the safety of these vaccines don't count, even though their names are on "papers". By the way they are called publications.
I don’t see your names on any publications either.
And your name is? Your very attempt to discredit other peoples comments also discredits your own comments as well. That aside, I am quite capable of reading what data has been published instead of letting the talking heads in the media skull fuck me. There is an old saying" there are none so blind as those who will not see". Get some fucking glasses.
"Do you want to end the pandemic or do you want it to continue indefinitely?"
Oh look, there is Tony with his false choices and non sequitirs! It must be a day ending in Y.
Your promise to "end the pandemic" is the childish, wishful naivety of fairytales. You will never stop a virus that infects cats and deer and even the vaccinated. It is with us forever, and so your empty promise is just that: empty.
So rather than being a choice between ending it and fighting it indefinitely, it is a choice between fighting it indefinitely under the yoke of leaders who claim the authority to pump us full of chemicals, and fighting it indefinitely with my medical freedom in tact.
Fuck off, slaver.
You people are so ducking dumb you are actually killing yourselves with stupidity.
Ah well, I said it would happen. When you cause a new varient that renders the vaccine ineffective and my mother succumbs to your stupidity as well, so I get to come rip your fucking intestines out?
Waaah my freedom to be a bug chaser. You people. Jesus Christ.
Actually, you seem to be the one who is dumb here. You keep repeating the same unscientific talking points.
It’s all he has. He’s stupid. The only thing Tony has a firm grasp on is his dick while he’s being serially assfucked at his local bathhouse.
Funny, the majority of scientist don't see the pandemic ending unless you call it turning into an endemic ending.
That's a riot soldiermedic. I especially liked the part where we missed any chance for herd immunity in the US when stupid right wingers declined their "get out of the ICU free" card.
See my response about herd immunity below
"That’s a riot soldiermedic..."
That's a steaming pile of stooopid, JF.
Tony:
Check the overall CFRs, as well as CFRs for particular age groups, for other serious flu outbreaks, such as H1N1.
Then realize that COVID, and it's variants, are going to be here forever -- just like the variants of swine flu and other flu. The COVID vaccine is most likely destined to become part of the regular regime of flu shots given to nearly 200 million people annually (older folks may need two doses a year for COVID).
The "pandemic" will be over soon: COVID is now "endemic,"and will be here, likely, for as long as most of us are alivef. And, for sure, you can count on those in power to continue to use the term "pandemic" for as long as it continues to enhance their political power.
There is no reason other than politics for Biden to go "full-Nazi" on this.
And yeah, everybody needs to get their shot -- I got mine as soon as I could -- but, like my wife's (and my) stance on abortion, it's "my body, my choice."
You don’t get to decide for other people if they die.
"You don’t get to decide for other people if they die."
But apparently Tony gets to decide what people do with their own bodies. Hollywood horror film writers would kill to be able to distill such fear inducing hubris into a single sentence like that.
You don't get to decide for other people what the have to put in there bodies. Body autonomy is the most primal freedom.
soldiermedic, actually we do get to decide what goes into your kid's body if they are going to go to our schools, and in your body if you join the military, and that dates back to Washington. This is long established legal policy.
That is a stupid analogy unless you think the government is our parents
Rights come with responsibilities. The world doesn’t exist to hand you everything you demand on a platter of vaginas. There is no Santa Claus.
You people have taken the philosophy of a sociopathic child, meaning nobody is entitled to any rights but you, and demanded that we all live by it.
Glad you finally got it. As for responsibility, what have you done? I actually stood up and sacrificed for my freedoms. Until you are willing to die for others freedoms don't lecture me about taking responsibility for freedoms.
"Rights come with responsibilities..."
Shitstain never read: "We hold these rights to be unalienable..."
No, shitstain, my rights are my rights regardless of your raging stupdity.
"You don’t get to decide for other people if they die."
You do realize, Tony. That there will ALWAYS be some people who won't wear a mask? Likewise, there will ALWAYS be some folks who won't be vaccinated, right? You cannot control the behavior of 330 million people. And it is beyond ridiculous to assume one could.
It also appears likely that annual and for some groups, biannual vaccinations will be necessary. That makes high-compliance rates even less likely.
It is also true that, at that even the vaccinated will have breakthroughs. Most will probably be asymptomatic, so they will, unknowingly, spread a bit of the virus.
Twenty years from now, we will still have sporadic outbreaks of Covid. So you need to present a better "plan."
You don’t get to decide for other people if they die.
But you get to decide for other people if they get a virus shot.
And when they die because of said shot, how is that decision a better one or any different than what you claim?
And the virus shot has killed people. So I guess you so get to decide for other people if they die as long as you do it in the name of "stopping the pandemic".
The pandemic is over for me. I will continue to live free, and I am willing to die for that freedom. Are you willing to die to take it?
Sorry that was for Tony.
Not taking a vaccine is not remotely a meaningful freedom to me, but I’m also not the most pathetic trash-radio addicted princess in the world either.
So you don't believe in the freedom of body autonomy? Glad to know you oppose abortions as well.
Not a problem.
And, once again, squirrels hijacked my reply.
Tony, the only ‘freedom’ you care about is the freedom to get your ass pounded by as many anonymous homos as possible.
You let your faggotry define you. As you are a valid, stupid, in-substantive drone.
So since circumcised males have a lower risk to contract STDs, including HIV, do you support mandatory circumcisions?
No, you are just a liberal media whore with a superiority complex. No real intelligence to speak of, just another toy solder whose key has been wound too tight.
Geez.... You're such a partisan hack.
When it's abortion it's all about body rights and liberty when it comes to forced vaccination it's all about Gov-Guns stomping on body rights and liberty. Your are a blind 'Gov-Party is my God' worshiping follower 100%. Might want to get some help for that.
I'd like to nominate Tony for a Democrat model of [WE] mob identity award. Seems the only principle he lives by is 'which gang?'. As it seems a lot of Democrats do. Then again that's what democracy is all about "which gang?" gets to use Gov-Guns against the other gang.
PEOPLE WILL DIE!
Tony is such a cliche he's a literal punchline. Nevertheless, he persisted.
You are between 10 and 50 times more likely to acquire HIV from your butt buddy than to die from COVID, Tones. When you're ready to talk about forcible sterilization or mandatory condoms, we can talk about mandatory vaccines for a disease with a survival rate of 99.99% for every age demographic under 70.
You’re not breve because you are a bug chaser. You are a disgusting pervert. You deserve to be ostracized, just as you did to AIDS patients.
You’re the sodomite, not him. You are also intolerant in the extreme of those different from you, even though you exist on the charitable tolerance of others. It would be easy enough to tolerate and dismiss you in spite of your pastime, but your Marxism makes this impossible.
It will end badly for you. And you deserve a horrific end, as you are a Marxist, and therefore malignant.
Unless you are obese and old this has never been a pandemic. Its no worse that the annual flu season for most Americans. By all means I support getting vaccinated if you have not already had the bug but honestly this was never what it was sold by the media...that and the BLM movement (which has somehow disappeared after Corn Pop and the blow got elected) was all about getting rid of Trump.
But there is a obligation to see who was responsible...if Fauci taking public money funded the research which created this then the mfer should be arrested and put away for life...
"What a fucking retarded hill to literally die on."
So we are left to wonder: Does shitstain prefer the flavor of brown boots, or black ones?
What a fucking retarded hill to literally have a 1/27000 die on.
Let's compare the covid vaccine to any of remedies on the children's immunization schedule.
That list has 14 vaccine/medications on it. The longest running being diphtheria which has been around since 1890. The newest being `meningococcal serogroup B` Which was added to the child schedule in 2014. 4 years after It had received FDA approval in 2010. After 5 years of clinical trials. And that's not counting the years they took internally that I'm not able to easily track. So 9 years of trails / use before it gets added to the children's medical schedule (which also has religious and medical exceptions to it)
Yeah I can't imagine why some people think that condensing that time down by a factor of 9-10 is going to not be up to par for the normal safety standards for a vaccine.
I'm glad vaccines are available, but I'm not going to pretend like the efficacy or safety of it is near what we would require of a mandated vaccine.
As far as eradicating the virus, please, we can't figure out how to quell viruses with more contained vectors of spreading?
You’re conjuring horseshit conspiracy theories crammed in your ears by radio personalities. How the fuck do you navigate life picking and choosing which science you deem accurate?
My god the stupid can be so arrogant.
His facts are in order. You’re just a bleating idiot too stupid to engage in a discussion that isn’t blind worship of the democrat narrative.
Best thing for you is suicide. So get to it.
Since you haven't offered any science of your own, just repeat it hat your preferred media says, this is rank hypocrisy on your part.
In 2009, the H1N1 "swine flu" was a considered a pandemic...it ended up being a non-event (unlike in 2012-13, when 56K people died in the US and unlike 2017-18, when 60-90k Americans died and 950K were hospitalized from the H3N2 flu):
"The (H1N1)pdm09 virus was very different from H1N1 viruses that were circulating at the time of the pandemic. Few young people had any existing immunity (as detected by antibody response) to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus, but nearly one-third of people over 60 years old had antibodies against this virus, likely from exposure to an older H1N1 virus earlier in their lives. Since the (H1N1)pdm09 virus was very different from circulating H1N1 viruses, vaccination with seasonal flu vaccines offered little cross-protection against (H1N1)pdm09 virus infection. While a monovalent (H1N1)pdm09 vaccine was produced, it was not available in large quantities until late November—after the peak of illness during the second wave had come and gone in the United States. From April 12, 2009 to April 10, 2010, CDC estimated there were 60.8 million cases (range: 43.3-89.3 million), 274,304 hospitalizations (range: 195,086-402,719), and 12,469 deaths (range: 8868-18,306) in the United States due to the (H1N1)pdm09 virus.
Here's an article that came out right after the first H1N1 vaccines became available in 2009...note the dismissive and self-righteous tone...
"Swine flu myth: The vaccine isn't safe - it has been rushed through tests and the last time there was a swine flu scare the vaccine hurt people. Why take the risk to prevent mild flu?
"What about the vaccines? People’s nervousness about swine flu vaccines is understandable. In 1976, after the death of a US army recruit triggered fears of a repeat of the deadly 1918 pandemic, around 48 million Americans were given a swine flu vaccine. Of these, 532 developed Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralytic condition caused by rogue antibodies attacking nerve cells. Most people recover from Guillain-Barré, but not all; 25 died after 1976 and others suffered lasting damage.
They work hard in this article to prove to the reader that this time it's different! "Still think it’s safer not to get vaccinated?"
By 2012, evidence began mounting that the safety of the vaccine was not, perhaps, all it had been promised. It was not "different this time" after all.
"The H1N1 (swine) flu vaccine was associated with a small but significant risk for developing a rare nervous disorder called Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS), say doctors in a report detailed in the July 11 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA).
"The study, conducted in Quebec, rekindles the still-controversial connection between Guillain–Barré syndrome (GBS) and the 1976 swine flu outbreak, which halted that year's flu vaccination program in the United States. It also raises questions about vaccines for flu strains originating in swine.
Not only not different, but pretty much exactly the same!
It does NOT take subscribing to whack-job conspiracy theories to consider that a "vaccine" created in mere months by companies looking at billions of dollars of taxpayer money just might cut some corners. All one needs to do is look at history. The last two times we had emergency vaccine mass-produced, bad things happened.
The arguments for COVID vaccines are almost verbatim to those used for the H1N1 vaccine and safe it is that lessons were learned and all is peachy. It will take years to see if the current set of adverse effects to COVID vaccine are more widespread and/or long-lasting.
If nothing else, you have to admit that the COVID vaccine has not had the sort of rigorous testing and proof of effectiveness that vaccines developed over decades and having decades of proof of extremely low risk vs high reward. Some hesitancy on those grounds alone, especially compared with the 99+% survival rate for COVID infection, is certainly not an insane position.
http://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/comments/oyouji/mandate_vaccination_for_everyone_including_all/
This article reads just like a vailed sales pitch for big pHARMa. You do realized that most of the people in hospitals in Israel are those with the shots. They are not vax's unless you count them as vax's after Sept. 1 when the CDC lowered the bar to make it so. But by doing so opened the door to early treatments that are close to 100% safe like Vit D, C, zinc/quertetin, melatonin, nac, etc.
Those with the shots are also spreading and catching it like everyone else. These shots also weaken the immune system following getting them for weeks opening the door to getting sick and becoming worse off in that time.
Have you even looked at VAERS? Have you heard the stories from people who have been disabled or died from these shots?
The whole premise around those without shots are so much more likely to get sick and die based on a disease with a 99+% survivability rate WITHOUT early or prophylactic supplementation. Include that shot are truly 100% useless. Those who do get shots and get sick and go to the hospital are just as good as dead without these early treatments.
No, this is much much bigger than just shots. We've left the realm of science completely on this. Good sales fear/pitch though.
Citation needed.
Aha Tony forgot to log into his paid troll Queen Bitch account.
At least you didn't forget to log out of your "I gargle with Trump's cum" account.
Nobody gives a shit about your erotic fantasies, lefty shitpile.
Tony is always a queen bitch. The handle doesn’t really matter. He never sacrifices a bit of stupid in any of his comments.
"The courts will almost certainly strike down this executive branch overreach and the sweeping new rules that wave away longstanding distinctions between public and private spheres of activity. This is what happened to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's eviction moratorium."
After how long? Biden's handlers [ghost administration] know precisely what will happen, but it won't be for a year or more; by then they will have accomplished whatever they wanted and the damage will have been done.
IOW, FYTY
The Exhibits on this is endless. Historically most notable when FDR threatened to "stuff the courts"... Wow, it's almost like history repeating itself again!
While done in the name of protecting "all Americans," Biden's mandate clearly escalates ongoing culture wars.
With said culture wars playing an essential role in the establishment of single party control for the Democrats.
Biden is a senile old fool, his mandate is illegal, and his admin is going down in flames. But old man yells at clouds is a funny meme and that's where we are today.
Except the senile old coot yelling at the clouds has a mountain of willing idiots listening.
Or at least mountains of blank ballots for the next election.
Here's a brain fart; Election facilities with multiple private (UN-manipulated by req of law) company entities (tables) comparing their in-person results with governments monopolized facilities. Get about 9 of them from different UN-biased arena's. That's about the only way I'll ever believe elections aren't fraud-ed.
They named the company Dominion and made voting machines. This always has made me fundamentally wary.
Except Dominion is but a tool of the government monopolized facilities.
I was thinking more of a line of tables for ballot receiving like booths at a fair that every voting person (In-Person) would go down having various companies legitimatize and count each vote; scanning a copy for their records.
Vaccine mandates are in perfect harmony with progressive ideology, which is all about using the coercive power of government to force us to do what they say is in the interests of the common good. This kind of policy was not only foreseeable but also foreseen.
No doubt, Joe Biden deserves the blame for his policy choices, but let's not try to escape accountability for our own complicity in this outcome. Nothing we can choose to avoid is unavoidable. We had the opportunity to choose not to have vaccine mandates back in November of 2020, and we chose this.
The lack of a national pandemic plan was even a central issue of the Democrats' media narrative during the campaign. Biden is responsible for the policies he enacts, but his pandemic policies were no mystery. To whatever extent you contributed to the defeat of Donald Trump, you are complicit in this outcome.
Let's learn from our mistakes.
the fed gov is NOT responsible for health policy. read the constitution. this is a matter for the states so a "national pandemic plan" is ridiculous. each state can choose how to handle the issues in their state -- it's called federalism. the very last thing we ever needed was a "national approach".
Joe Biden is responsible for the choices he makes, and we are responsible for the choices we made.
The Constitution doesn't have anything to do with that statement, and there shouldn't be anything controversial about it.
But... But... It's not *really* Nazism without the "national approach" 🙂
Now do immigration and abortion. Do you learn from your mistakes?
Immigration mandates are in perfect harmony with progressive ideology, which is all about using the coercive power of government to force us to do what they say is in the interests of the common good.
Abortion mandates are in perfect harmony with progressive ideology, which is all about using the coercive power of government to force us to do what they say is in the interests of the common good.
I don't think you know how this works.
^Second this....
Although I think election abortion is immoral, I think some form of it should remain legal because forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term against her will is fundamentally unjust in practice. I don't see where Trump was especially inconsistent with that opinion. Meanwhile, I strongly encourage the U.S. Senate to sign a constitutional open borders treaty with Mexico, which would allow their citizens to cross our border by showing an ID--and without obtaining a visa.
I don't believe Donald Trump was especially worse than Joe Biden on either of these issues--not even on immigration. I think that winning the support of the American people for an open borders treaty with Mexico probably requires us to gain control of the border first, and everything Biden has done to perpetuate the chaos at the border today has only served to set back the cause of an open borders treaty.
I think elective abortion is immoral and think most forms of it should be legal because people must be allowed to make immoral decisions. There is no moral good in making the right decision when all the other choices are punishable. It is bad parenting and even worse government. Conditions in inner city neighborhoods where people's choices are severely limited mimic those in the most oppressive of governments.
Freedom is better than authoritarianism even when it leads to unpleasant outcomes for some.
I don’t believe Donald Trump was especially worse than Joe Biden on either of these issues–not even on immigration.
Definitively better. He offered entitlement cuts for preferred immigration policy and was rebuked. I don't care if Mexicans come across the border. I don't even care if they come across the border, drain drain entitlement programs, and undercut minimum wage. To a great degree, I wish they would. I just don't want myself or my children to be on the hook for them doing it now and going forward. Their ability to choose to cross borders, work at whatever wage they can command, enjoy public education/collect welfare and/or pay taxes relatively at will distinctly makes me a second-class citizen. Effectively converts property owners into slaves.
Our primary mistake was not expanding McCarthyism back in the day. We should have been imprisoning your kind in droves, and executing many of you.
The only good Marxist is a dead Marxist.
Slight disagreement. McCarthy's list of communists came in a bottle. Pretty much guarantees you're going to leave behind plenty of Marxists to cry victim.
using the coercive power of government to force us to do what they say is in the interests of the common good
This is the test run. They will incrementally turn the screws on any who refuse to comply until there is actually revolt. They may lose a few leaders, but will have created the conditions such that even the moderates on the left will demand a police state.
Thanks Ken, I'll take all the credit if you let me. Seems you preferred a guy knowingly pretend - see Woodward tapes - that Covid was nothing and would just disappear - he said that regularly and as late as last fall - when he knew it was big trouble and lethal. That's the guy you prefer to the one actually trying to solve it?
Name a pathogen that is not lethal? Under the right conditions? COVID is only lethal under the right conditions as well.
"...That’s the guy you prefer to the one actually trying to solve it?..."
You mean the guy who fast-tracked the vaccines, steaming pile of lefty shit? Or are you stupid enough to be making that claim about the demented excuse for humanity currently taking up space in the WH?
Vaccines are not only effective against getting COVID-19 in the first place, they virtually guarantee you will not die or even be hospitalized if you do contract it"
incorrect 20% of present hospitalized Delta cases are vaccinated and the numbers are far higher in Israel
In King County (Washington) the fully vaxxed are 32% of cases and 30% of deaths in the last 30 days.
https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination-outcomes.aspx
Yeah, vaccinated 80 year olds with cancer.
Wait, so NOW there's a distinction between dying with and of Covid?
I need to get on this DNC mailing list, I'm always behind the times.
Also, elderly and ailing always have been the overwhelming majority of fatalities, with or without vaccine... It's uncanny how it's so much like other diseases that way...
The big difference in other viruses it tends to be the elderly and the young, in this one it's the elderly almost exclusively.
Almost like an authoritarian regime that loves eugenics made it... Yeah, very notable behavior.
"Yeah, vaccinated 80 year olds with cancer."
Here in Oregon, +/- 15% of new cases are "breakthrough" cases, while +/- 85% are among the un-vaccinated. When one factors in that +/- 66% of the population are vaccinated means that 7 1/2% of those who are vaccinated are "new" cases, and the un-vaccinated account for 92% of new cases.
And if one breaks out the "partially-vaccinated" (+/- 8% of the population) from the fully vaccinated, then the effectiveness of the vaccine rises to about 95-97%. If one figures in the asymptomatic cases, it's likely up to something close to 98/99% effective.
I have no idea how this comment ended up here.
Fucking squirrels!
++
If one figures in the asymptomatic cases, it’s likely up to something close to 98/99% effective.
My adundance of caution rocks are 100% effective at preventing COVID in people who are asymptomatic.
>>Vaccines are not only effective against getting COVID-19 in the first place,
questionable. the list of professional athletes alone who have tested positive after the shot is long and distinguished
>>>they virtually guarantee you will not die or even be hospitalized if you do contract it.
immeasurable and laughable.
The Ministry of Truth is hard at work.
No, Gillespie, this is a complicated question regarding a balance between individual Liberty and public safety that doesn’t easily lend itself to pithy comments about Joe Biden or ideologies.
>>balance between individual Liberty and public safety
one is sacrosanct. the other doesn't exist.
Those who would surrender liberty for safety deserve neither.
Okay, then never call the police.
Literally, you are not surrendering liberty when you call the police, unless you are calling them to have yourself arrested. Things would go much better for you if you would quit slamming yourself in the head with a bat.
Tony can’t distinguish the difference between total anarchy and a democrat run autocratic police state. To be fair, he is pretty stupid. I think he has some phony sociology degree from some shit college designed for useless faggot leftists like him.
You don’t sacrifice any liberty to pay taxes to support the violent enforcement of law?
What?
Think of the vaccine as a gun. I carry a gun because I can't depend on the cops to arrive quickly enough. I got the vaccine because I have pre-existing conditions (well controlled) that increase my risk. So are you suggesting everyone carry now?
Another idiotic comment. Do you lack the capacity for critical thinking? You could have said."Okay then never eat peaches." And made just as much sense.
Joe doesn't need a complicated issue to lend himself to the pithy comments of dog-faced pony soldiers.
"No, Gillespie, this is a complicated question regarding a balance between individual Liberty and public safety that doesn’t easily lend itself to pithy comments about Joe Biden or ideologies."
You're right; there is onee proper response:
Fuck off and die, commie shit.
huh,, "public safety" huh? I think the founders missed that one when they constructed the USA by definition. No fear though; Get the 2/3rd congress majority and 3/4 States and you can make your illegal Nazism legal in the USA...
What's really sickening and criminal is just IGNORING the law and doing whatever politicians want... I hear gangs in the hood operate on that level and nations in compulsive civil war do. I'd hope better for the USA.
I didn’t know they had Infowars freaks back in 1905. Who knew?
The Supreme Court has specifically upheld state laws requiring compulsory vaccinations in Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905).
Jacobson was a Swedish immigrant who believed that a mandatory smallpox vaccination was an “invasion of his liberty,” and that his son had suffered “adverse effects” from mandatory smallpox vaccination in Sweden before he immigrated. Jacobson refused to have his son vaccinated in Massachusetts and was fined $5 (approximately $150 adjusted for inflation.) He appealed his conviction all the way to the Supreme Court of the United States, arguing that the law infringed upon his rights under the 14th Amendment.
The Court held that while his liberty was somewhat restricted by the mandatory vaccination law, the threat of smallpox epidemics was significant and that public safety was a significant enough state interest that it justified infringing on personal liberties.
The majority recognized that while it would be impermissible to actually vaccinate individuals against their will, it was well within the state’s police powers to fine or imprison those who refused to comply. The majority also recognized that some individuals do have medical reasons to refuse, though they found that Jacobson did not meet the criteria for such a medical exemption.
Again, technically, Buck v. Bell has never been overturned.
You missed the most important part.... STATE not FEDERAL.
... And, The majority also recognized that some individuals do have medical reasons to refuse, though they found that Jacobson did not meet the criteria for such a medical exemption.
With human immunity and the 3x the common cold death rate. The very COVID-19 and Delta lack such 'criteria' for such a mandate.
You might want to compare the IFR of smallpox in 1905 to the IFR of the Rona in 2021.
Then do some research on how to better parody a retarded socialist.
One more time for the extremely stupid: smallpox has a fatality rate around 40%, this coronavirus, around .2%. You aren't comparing apples and oranges, you're comparing apples and the scent of an orange.
It is all smoke. It is all lies. The left is going for dictatorship. Reason needs to figure that out sooner or later. I am afraid they will figure it out way to late.
1st amendment attacks
2nd amendment attacks
Unconstitutional mandates
Federalization of elections
Court packing. Forced retirement age for Justices
Statehood for DC a federal area (the land should go back to the states that it was taken from for a Federal area if you want representation for the citizens of DC)
Massive amounts of executive orders. (ruling by royal decree)
Open borders and amnesty to buy illegal immigrants votes
Purging the military
Purging non-political government oversight boards
Two tiered system of punishment with regard to party affiliation in the House.
If that isn't an agenda for Dictatorship, what is Reason writers?
^THIS EXACTLY... Well Stated.
Tony reads that and gets a boner. He a,so gets one while ogling teen boys.
Nick - the only comment I have is regarding your link to the University of Pittsburgh study regarding people with doctorates being vaccine-hesitant.
I read that study when my MAGA boss sent it to me; it is garbage science and there are a number of problems with their data.
First of all, it's conducted via online polling, which is self selective and inherently unreliable compared to true random sampling.
Secondly, it only covers January to May 2021, which is ancient history at this point, as it predates the delta variant in the US and only covers the infancy of universal vaccine availability.
Also, nearly 60% of the respondents were from the south or Midwest, where vaccination rates as a whole are lower than average. Only 13.9% were from the pacific coast and only 16.7% were from the northeast – two of the most populous areas in the country, and where vaccination rates are highest.
The result is the base rates are out of whack. This is the same trick the libs at the CDC used when they shit their pants over the number of vaccinated people who became infected in Provincetown a while back.
Lastly, if you look at current, reliable data from the US Census Bureau, there is conclusive evidence that higher education is correlated with vaccination, and inversely correlated with vaccine hesitancy.
Just wanted to point out that while Reason usually links to reliable sources, this is not one of those. Otherwise, great article.
So the Amount of Commie-Indoctrination is substantial how?
Let's enjoy some more common-sense data; An overwhelming majority of these Commie-Indoctrinated folks will end up on Commie-Pay (Stealing for a living).
....Because of course; Their *real* value isn't recognized as value by anyone besides the Nazi-Complex.
This might hold water if the same population did not have a history of being vaccine skeptical, or simply embracing conspiracy theories about vaccines, well before this disease surfaced. Self-selective or self-identified polling can be an issue, but the fact is, this is how many polls are conducted; this argument is also weak. You not agreeing with the outcome does not invalidate a source.
I, for one, would like to see how much Moderna donated to Joe Biden's election campaign.
It'll take a dedicated Hunter to track down that payoff
Crony Socialism for the WIN! /s
How much are the pharmaceutical companies making off all of this? Not just the vaccines, but non generic treatments like Remdesivir. I’ve noticed that many inexpensive alternatives are not prescribed that would make more sense.
My local kept a friend of mine with manageable symptoms in a hospital bed for three days to administer Remdesivir, which is down through an IV drip. Instead of giving her someone else and sending her home. I suspect the hospital gets federal money for doing so.
Early this morning I posted that one of the things that irks me the most about Biden is he never re-evaluates his approach, he gets mad and double down. Then what does he do today, he gets mad and doubles down. He never changes his approach. He gets mad at any dissension. He demonizes people who disagree with him. And that is perfectly exemplified by his line about losing patience with people who disagree with him. It's candy to his hard core supporters but to the rest of us it is just hyper-partisan anger directed anyone who dare question St Joe.
I am like Nick, I support vaccines, but oppose mandates. Unlike Nick, however, I question the government's single strategy approach. This hyperfocus on mass vaccinations is a waste of resources, and leaves any plan B to deal with the emergence of vaccine resistant variants sorely behind the 8 ball. To combat this virus we need a multipronged approach, we already have the vaccine. Now energy and resources are needed to develop better treatments. The Biden administration is putting all it's eggs in one basket, trying to achieve an unattainable goal. We would be better served insuring that the most at risk populations are vaccinated (which we basically have already achieved), encouraging others to get vaccinated, and refocusing now on improving treatments. We aren't going to eliminate the virus, it has to many host reservoirs, and mutates to quickly. We currently have six identified variants circulating through the populous, each with different response to the vaccine. And the chances that the number of unidentified variants are also circulating is highly probable. Elimination shouldn't be our goal, because it is as close to unachievable as to be functionally unachievable. Energy and resources would be better spent learning to live with the virus, which if it isn't yet technically an endemic is on the cusp of being an endemic.
Also, the focus on mass vaccinations isn't without risks. Even the scientific proponents of mass vaccinations admit that their is a chance that mass vaccinations could produce evolutionary pressure that results in vaccine resistant variants emerging. They believe this risk is minimal, other well respected scientist disagree. So far the research is in it's infancy and no clear scientific conclusion can be drawn that is data driven. We likely won't know who was right until all the dust settles (even if a vaccine resistant variety does emerge, it will be awhile before we are able to conclude if it occurred naturally or as a result of evolutionary pressure we administered).
The one constant we are seeing is that each new variant appears to be less susceptible to the vaccine then the previous variants, which doesn't provide much comfort that the effectiveness of the current vaccines have longevity. Which shouldn't be surprising to anyone who has experience with coronaviruses. It is why research into a vaccine for the common cold has been frustrating to say the least.
Further, anyone who thinks we can beat this virus with vaccines (if they remain viable) quickly is ignoring history. We have functionally beat some pathogens, however, it took decades and generally were multipronged approaches. Polio was controlled by vaccines as well as improvements in sewage and water handling. Measles took decades and was easily reversed by a few years of vaccine hesitancy. Smallpox took two centuries to eradicate. Yellow fever took a vaccine and decades of targeted mosquito control (which wouldn't be possible today as the insecticides that were effective are now banned in the US). Malaria was mosquito control alone and took decades. Even if we achieve 100% vaccinations (an unachievable goal) we won't eliminate this virus functionally anytime soon, and unlike previous pandemics it isn't burning itself out quickly. Vector control is nearly useless as the number of host species continues to grow daily (although we are unclear how well each species is in transferring it to humans). We have a preventative for now, but the efficacy is debatable. Even if it is in the 65-70% range at preventing disease, that still leaves a large percentage who will contract the infection and be symptomatic and able to transfer the virus, not to mention the ones who are infected but asymptomatic. Additionally, the fact that even those who are symptomatic, many are only mildly so, which actually probably increases the chance they will transfer the virus to others, as they will be less likely to stay home and quarantine. They may not even realize they have COVID but believe they have something else (the symptoms are fairly generic and common to a bunch of other pathogens and even seasonal allergies). Do I stay home because it is fall and I now have a stuffy head? Or do I suck it up and go to work? I have a history of fall allergies (in fact they were so bad last year I did go and get a COVID test, my wife had tested positive around the same time, and I took a week off of work, I turned out to be negative).
Continued. Our focus now should be on development of better treatments and more research on vaccine efficacy and emergence of resistance.
Additionally, using a targeted approach to vaccinations isn't unheard of, it is actually quite common with far deadlier pathogens.
Pathogens that we have near-eradicated share the common trait of being slow to mutate, whereas Covid is a flu-like, and mutates rapidly (7? 8? distinct variants in a year) becoming, as you noted, increasingly more resilient to the vaccine resistance. This is a property of the virus' mutation speed and ready use of plasmids to transfer useful genes to future strains.
We're looking at another flu season subsidy for Pfizer with comparable success, basically.
Focus absolutely should be on treatment because we'll never push a vaccine faster than a cold can change it's coat.
I did address the rate of mutation yesterday. I didn't feel it was pertinent to bring it up again, though I did allude to it. You are correct.
Additionally, the ones we have functionally beat have few or only one host, or require a single intermediary host (Malaria and Yellow fever).
The vaccines don’t confer immunity to viruses which can escape immunity, so those 50 percent of the US population fully vaccinated are back at square one. They’re vulnerable to variants which have been around since last October, and probably before. "An analysis of more than 50,000 real-life SARS-CoV-2 genomes isolated from patient samples further showed that most of these virus mutations were already circulating, albeit at very low levels in the infected human populations. These results show that SARS-CoV-2 can mutate its spike proteins to evade antibodies, and that these mutations are already present in some virus mutants circulating in the human population."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33112236/ That's 50,000 variants, since October 2020. There are likely to be a lot more by now. Probably a lot of those variants aren't replication-competent, so they're not a concern, however, by May, there were 1400 variants in the US alone which were replication competent. The Delta variant was sequenced before October 2020, it differed from the original virus by one base pair, an arginine substitution in the sequence which codes for the furin cleavage in the S1 subunit of the spike protein. That mutation caused the furin cleavage to more easily fold and latch on to the ACE-2 receptors in the vascular system, with resultant inflammation and thrombosis.
It doesn't matter if you're vaccinated or not, if you don't have natural T-cell immunity, you're not going to be immune to new variants. The vaccines all focus on the spike protein, and there are - as of three months ago - over 1400 variants in the US alone which can evade the vaccines. What the vaccines do is filter out the variants for which they're made, so if you get infected with a soup of alpha, wild type, and delta variants as the major components, plus hundreds of other mutations as minor components, the vaccines will filter out the alpha and wild type viruses, and leave the Delta and the rest alone - and *those* will reproduce. The dominant strain will then, by natural selection, be the Delta strain, accompanied by the rest, and those will be spread to others. So let's say we get a Delta booster shot. That filters out the Delta variant, and leaves the rest, including (say) the Lambda variant alone to reproduce, and be spread. So we get a Lambda booster shot, and that takes care of the Lambda, but the Epsilon variant isn't touched, so we need another booster. And this could continue on for 20 years, until the variant names fill the page. On the other hand, natural immunity rules - Emory University School of Medicine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8253687/
Another thing - these vaccines produce spike proteins which get out in the bloodstream, and they produce lots of bad effects - brain fog, myocarditis, inflammation in blood vessels, blood clots, and so on. My bet is that the effects of periodic injections of spike protein-producing mRNA will have cumulative effects, so that mortality from side effects will increase over time. The vaccines are a dead end (excuse the pun).
reference on spike proteins in bloodstream - https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.21.423721v2
Vaccines aren't a dead end but they aren't a stand alone answer either. They do reduce susceptibility, even if not as well as first advertised, they do decrease symptoms and severity. But that isn't enough.
Hypermutability is a common feature of RNA viruses, but with flu there's the additional feature of recombination facility.
And?
They're more talented at getting worse.
By worse I assume higher morbidity, because pathogens generally evolve to be more contagious and less deadly.
unlike previous pandemics it isn’t burning itself out quickly
Disagree or, maybe more appropriately, too soon to tell depending on pandemic and location. The Spanish Flu came in three waves over three years.
The biggest difference is speed of travel. Which limited the Spanish Flu ability to transmit to new susceptible populations and more time to mutate. Delta is the fourth variant but new variants are already spreading, lambda and mu. Because of speed of travel we will likely being seeing spikes from these variants shortly. Alpha and beta arrived fairly close to each other. Gamma a couple months later, now delta. I think the available data doesn't suggest it burning itself out. Also, Spanish flu was deadlier. The deadlier a pathogen, the more likely it is to burn itself out. This is because it had less chance to transmit and mutate. Dead hosts generally are not good reservoirs for pathogens. Persistent viruses almost always have low mortality rates and high morbidity rates. COVID tends to meet both categories, which again argues against it burning itself out.
Persistent viruses almost always have low mortality rates and high morbidity rates. COVID tends to meet both categories, which again argues against it burning itself out.
My point. A, maybe the, prototypical burnout pathogen took 3 yrs. to burn out, maybe more globally (with today's histrionics, who knows).
I'm fairly certain it's here for the long haul, but it's not going to kill 4M people a year forever. When it slows is still too early to tell.
First, when did Biden (or any US health policy department) say our approach is "either/or?" People who focus on treatment are focusing on treatment, while those focused on prevention do that. Second, it's far too early to say "each new variant appears less susceptible" to vaccines. The Delta variant is more contagious than predecessors, but only marginally less susceptible. The Mu variant appears no more resistant than the original strains. Moreover, when a critical mass of the population has been vaccinated, herd immunity is achieved and mutations cease for lack of new hosts.
Further, as to globalizing, Biden did not say "By this edict I shall erase every trace of SARS CoV-2 from the earth forever." He said "I will dramatically reduce the rate of infection, hospitalization, and death among people in the USA." And the author agrees (and you agree) that vaccination does those things. IF, and only if, they are administered.
No, when herd immunity is achieved mutations don't stop. First even with herd immunity, the virus escapes the vaccine 33+/-% which means 33% still will be infected. Secondly, if humans were the only host, and efficacy was greater, than you would have a point. But humans aren't the only hosts, a variety and growing lists of mammals, some domestic, some wild are also hosts. And yes Biden is only focused on vaccinations, look at his six point plan, he only mentions treatment once, and according to the Whitehouse own site, the focus of his treatment is on adding personal and ventilators. It isn't focused on developing new treatments. It is a totally reactive strategy not a proactive strategy (just like Afghanistan, which was totally reactive and was in no way proactive). He mentioned no funding for new research into treatment, only adding personal when a local surge occurs. This is not a treatment plan.
And please explain what herd immunity is, what the criteria is to meet it, what conditions must exist to meet it.
Also, since mu is nearly emerged any conclusions on its ability to escape the vaccine is still to early to make, but both Delta and Gamma are more resistant to the vaccine than alpha and beta.
No I don't agree completely with the statement only vaccines will reduce deaths. In fact I totally disagree with that statement. It shows how single focused you and Joe are.
Do you think herd immunity removes susceptible hosts? That isn't how it works.
The theory of herd immunity relies on a large enough percentage of a population to be vaccinated thus that it slows the spread of a pathogen to low levels. It doesn't stop the spread of pathogens it just reduces the number of susceptible hosts to such a small number that pathogen spread is low level and controllable with more targeted treatments and quarantine for effected individuals.
In veterinary medicine and animal husbandry, which has practiced the concept of herd immunity far longer than humans, vaccines are only one leg of the triad, herd isolation and quarantine of new stock are the other legs. To achieve the triad of herd immunity in humans we would have to close our borders, institute quarantines for any effected people, and quarantines for anyone coming into the country. Even if we achieved 100% vaccinations isn't world wide, the borders would still need to be tightly controlled (world wide) and quarantine would be needed for all travellers until the pathogen is eradicated.
One other part of herd isolation practiced in animal husbandry/veterinary medicine is the control of disease vectors through the use of pesticides. The large number of mammalian hosts that have so far been documented makes this approach for COVID nearly impossible. Are we going to kill every domestic cat, every mink, wild or captive, every whitetail deer (and if it's spread to whitetail deer it likely will spread to all other deer species if it hasn't yet) etc. Or if we go to the vaccine route, the estimated white tail population in the US alone is over 100,000,000, however, white tail deer stretch from the Yukon territory to Peru, not to mention introduced populations in the Caribbean, Europe and Oceania. And that is just white tail deer, there is no reason to suspect that it won't transmit to blacktail/mule deer and elk and moose. And that is just North American deer species.
"...and, weirdly, people with doctorates."
Gee, maybe they might have a clue that these vaccines are neither safe nor effective?
So a mandate (if enacted by Congress) would be fine for smallpox, but not for COVID. So the principle is conceded. Yet it's further admitted that Biden is right; this IS a "pandemic of the unvaccinated," and these unvaccinated are placing an ENORMOUS, UNNECESSARY COST AND BURDEN upon our health resources and, ultimately, both the public purse and the already stratospheric prices of private health insurance. Don't tell me about the morons' "freedom of choice" when that means "freedom to pass the costs of their own irresponsibility onto their neighbors." If that's not a warrant for mandating vaccines, I don't know what is.
Since this wasn’t a Congressional act, I am not sure where you get your conclusion from. And data from Israel will suggest that the pandemic of the unvaccinated is an unsupported talking point. Yes unvaccinated are more likely to contract it, but not exclusively. Israel is having huge spikes, despite having far better vaccination rates, and a significant portion of those hospitalized are vaccinated. Britain saw similar during their most recent spike.
these unvaccinated are placing an ENORMOUS, UNNECESSARY COST AND BURDEN upon our health resources
Unvaccinated here. I've chipped in to our health resources for years under the promise that they'll be there when I need them. Has that changed? If so, I'm fine getting kicked out as long as I can get my money back?
More pointedly, if it changed for me regardless of my actual health because of there exists a disease that I could prevent, what makes you so sure it won't change for you? Relatedly, what's your height and bodyweight? Also, if you have any children or a spouse, what are their heights and bodyweights? Don't worry I'm not going to do anything with this information, I'm not the type of person who would turn around and use it against you. I promise.
I too have "chipped in" all my life and still do. But I'm vaccinated, and unlike you, I don't consider the existence of health insurance to mean disease prevention is a bad idea, or that it's even a "personal choice" when we're dealing with communicable diseases.
You premiums WILL rise "regardless of your actual health" because premiums are calculated on a population basis, not an individual basis. So mine will rise also. Delta Airlines is charging more for health insurance to their unvaccinated employees. Gee, maybe they know something you don't.
Or maybe they are being reactive like you and Joe.
"...and unlike you, I don’t consider the existence of health insurance to mean disease prevention is a bad idea, or that it’s even a “personal choice” when we’re dealing with communicable diseases..."
To assholic busy-bodies like you, it's pretty certain the very concept of "personal choice" is meaningless.
But I’m vaccinated,
So you've taken more out of the system than I have. I thought people taking from the system was the problem?
Delta Airlines is charging more for health insurance to their unvaccinated employees. Gee, maybe they know something you don’t.
Delta is far better at separating fools from their money. Don't deny it in the least. I do know that they have zero clue as to my personal fitness or health status and the fact that they insure their employees the way they do indicates that they don't have a very good bead on their own employees health/fitness either. It's why they buy the insurance.
Sorry, meant for hick.
Where do you get your evidence that the unvaccinated are placing a burden on our health care resources? Because everyone I know who's been sick in the past several months have been vaccinated, and they ALL went to the doctor.
And if this is your attitude, I sure as shit hope you ain't fat and you don't smoke. And that you refrain from fats, sugars, red meat, booze, driving your car, and having indiscriminate, unprotected sex because those people are the real threats to our healthcare system.
Right. I don't smoke, I follow a healthy diet, haven't had a traffic ticket since age 18, wear 3-point seat belts, wear motorcycle helmets. And if I learn of some other responsible behavior I ought to follow, I will. Moreover, I'm eagerly awaiting the day when the trial lawyers find a way around reactionary legislatures and sue the junk food industry out of existence. And when we establish a national health care system. Talk about inducing responsible behavior in a hurry! Not to mention universal coverage with lower cost (and yes, a special private system will always co-exist for those able to afford it).
Nice to know that all YOUR friends who got sick were vaccinated. Go down and visit every East Jesus Bible Faith Shack and see how many of THEM are vaccinated. Better still, go visit the COVID ward and see how many HOSPITALIZED are vaccinated.
And rationed care. Lower cancer survival rates and heart disease survival rates and many other diseases.
(Forgot the Waiting for Godot link limit)
And:
“In October 2007, the Fraser Institute, a Canada-based libertarian think tank, reported that Canadians waited an average of 18.3 weeks between seeing a general practitioner and getting surgery or treatment.”
https://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/comparing-health-care-in-canada-to-the-us/
Wanna bet it hasn’t gotten better, shitbag? That’s 12 years ago, and no one is bragging about improvement.
Let's add:
“1. It takes an average of 24 days to schedule a first-time appointment with a physician — a 30 percent increase since 2014, when the average wait time was 18.5 days, according to The 2017 Survey of Physician Appointment Wait Times and Medicare and Medicaid Acceptance Rates.”
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hospital-physician-relationships/patient-wait-times-in-america-9-things-to-know.html
Just to rub asshole's nose in it:
“NHS brings in three month minimum waiting times despite warnings patients will suffer ”
[…]
“NHS officials have introduced new limits which mean patients in some parts of the country will be made to wait at least three months for routine surgery, such as hip operations and cardiac procedures.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/18/nhs-brings-three-month-minimum-waiting-times-despite-warnings/
Note that the wait time is the government-claimed chance for your mom (who should have aborted you) to die, thereby reducing their case-load:
“…will be made to wait *AT LEAST* three months…”
Why treat them when you can just let ’em die before they waste any of your time?
"...Moreover, I’m eagerly awaiting the day when the trial lawyers find a way around reactionary legislatures and sue the junk food industry out of existence..."
Personally, I'm looking forward to when assholic busybodies are required to wear a badge attesting to their assholish behavior.
What you want is un-American, and so are you. Get out of my country with your Marxism.
I don’t smoke, I follow a healthy diet ... wear 3-point seat belts
ROFLMAO! Translation: I'm fat, out of shape, and own a car. If you were a bodybuilder or a triathlete, you'd say "I'm 200 lbs. at 8% bodyfat." or "I run 10 mi. every morning and swim a 5 mi. a week." Every commercial vehicle for the last 40 yrs. has come with 3-point seat belts. I bet your wife loves it when you talk about how great you are for not beating her too.
wear motorcycle helmets
Haven't ridden a motorcycle in decades. You're disproportionately draining our healthcare resources by continuing to ride. Moreover, if you never get into an accident, the helmet is pointless. If you do, the helmet doesn't prevent all or even most injuries, by premise and design it just prevents some of the ones most likely to kill you. This means you wearing a helmet guarantees you'll be a larger drain on the healthcare system than someone who doesn't.
And my reading of "I don’t smoke, I follow a healthy diet" puts you solidly in out-of-shape territory.
Good Lord. Get help.
"...and these unvaccinated are placing an ENORMOUS, UNNECESSARY COST AND BURDEN upon our health resources..."
You're full of shit.
I am in excellent health and unlikely in the extreme to experience any severe effects from Covid. I have not been hospitalized in years and never get the flu vaccine. Didn't bother with this joke of a pharma subsidy either.
Gimme a refund on my contributions, and then tell me about how much hospital capacity fatties take up and why I'm paying for their inability to say no to seconds, or why equality in general goes out the window when people get scared and stupid?
Do obesity now!
Does anyone remember back a ways when Obama first got elected and these idiots here were telling us that it heralded the dawn of a new golden age of libertarianism? Of course you do, they even called it "Our Libertarian Moment".
Yeah..... not really quite so much I'd say. I'm thinking that if not a mea culpa or an apology, at least some sort of acknowledgement that they got it 100% wrong might at least be in order.
In case you happen to have not been around these parts that long, here's the link to it:
https://reason.com/2008/11/25/the-libertarian-moment/
Read all of it, and soak in all of its hilariously wrong glory.
Tokenism and arrogance from the child-men in their ivory towers, believing their fairytales were actually the real world.
Since this wasn't a Congressional act, I am not sure where you get your conclusion from. And data from Israel will suggest that the pandemic of the unvaccinated is an unsupported talking point. Yes unvaccinated are more likely to contract it, but not exclusively. Israel is having huge spikes, despite having far better vaccination rates, and a significant portion of those hospitalized are vaccinated. Britain saw similar during their most recent spike.
Meant for hick.
What do you mean "but not exclusively?" Do people in here not realize that public policy operates on PERCENTAGES AND PROBABILITIES, NOT ABSOLUTES? I don't know Israel's experience with COVID, but Israel isn't God 'n Guns Amurrika where the pandemic IS of the unvaccinated. Check in on a health care worker forum.
Israel is a good template, as they are using the same vaccines and have a higher vaccination rate. You obviously don't understand modeling.
By not exclusively I mean that vaccinated people do contract the virus , do get ill, do end up in the hospital and do die. That isn't even debatable.
He’s a Marxist idiot uninterested in anything outside the democrat narrative. Conversation with garbage like him is unproductive and will not be fruitful. Best to sweep trash like him aside and stop their autocratic plans for the rest of us.
And yes I understand probabilities and percentages, and strongly suspect better than you.
And you also understand probabilities and percentages better than the public health authorities and better than the immunologists. All of whom are lying despite having no imaginable reason for doing so?
Did I say that? And for your information not all public health specialist and immunologist agree that mass vaccinations are the answer.
In fact nothing I stated even comes close to what you accused me of.
What I do have the knowledge enough to do is to go to the peer reviewed literature and read it for myself. I also have enough background (both education and experience) in the subjects involved to make an educated conclusion based upon my review of the literature. I am not blindly following the consensus or using buzzwords to support my position. Instead I am evaluating the actual science with involves topics I have both extensive training and experience in.
BTW that is how actual science works. It doesn't work by appeals to top men.
He’s a propagandist.
"And you also understand probabilities and percentages better than the public health authorities and better than the immunologists..."
When you don't have data, appeal to authorities.
Fuck off, slaver.
That is all it is at this point. I conducted a literature review last night, and found it was lacking. The vast majority of research when I put into pubmed COVID was on vaccine hesitancy and was social science. This is because that research generally takes less time to data collect. The actual hard science was extremely limited, the data is still being compiled in most cases. Therefore, most of what we are being told is educated guesses. They are based on some data, but no clear picture has emerged. This is why appeals to authority are even weaker at this point. It is strongly biased towards modeling that hasn't proven to be strongly robust, as the most current spike has shown.
"...This is because that research generally takes less time to data collect..."
Sitting at a desk and pulling numbers out of your ass is generally a VERY fast way of generating "data", and that "data" is worth about what else comes out of your ass.
Yeah, like a lot of hard scientist I have my reservations about the validity of the social sciences.
It's terrifying that I find international research more trustworthy than U.S.' at this point.
Your average idiot off the street understands things better than most bureaucrat.
If Israel isn't God 'n' Guns, where is? They got more God & guns than most everywhere, per capita.
People literally walk around the streets packing M-4 carbines, in civies. People like hickamore I am betting would shit their pants if they saw the same thing in the US.
Stupid medical personnel! Must all be Trump voters who don't understand the benefits of vaccines! You'd think these medically-trained people would all line up and jump at the chance to be injected with experimental vaccines!
I heard just now on the radio, a local hospital is closing its maternity ward at least temporarily. Seems that 30 staff resigned due to NY State's COVID vaccine mandate.
Ah, here's an article.
----------------
“We are unable to safely staff the service after Sept. 24. The number of resignations received leaves us no choice but to pause delivering babies at Lewis County General Hospital,” Chief Executive Officer Gerald R. Cayer said. “It is my hope that the (state) Department of Health will work with us in pausing the service rather than closing the maternity department.”
In addition to the maternity ward, there are five other departments whose services may be curtailed in some way if a significant number of staff members decide to leave their employment rather than be vaccinated for COVID-19.
The “pause” will begin on Sept. 25, two days before the final deadline for healthcare worker vaccination across the state for those who chose to continue their employment.
Mr. Cayer, who spoke at a news conference on Friday afternoon in the county board room, said 30 people have resigned from their health care roles since the vaccine was mandated on Aug. 23, 20 of whom worked in clinical positions like nurses, therapists and technicians, totalling 70% of the resignations so far.
“Essential health services are not at risk because of the mandate,” Mr. Cayer said at the top of his prepared statement. “The mandate ensures we will have a healthy workforce and we are not responsible for (causing COVID-19) transmission in or out of our facilities.”
“the most important passage in Biden’s remarks reveals a governing philosophy that should give all Americans pause”
No, Nick, it should do more than just give us "pause." It should piss us off to the extent that we seriously start thinking about a national divorce.
It should piss us off to the extent that we seriously start thinking about a national divorce.
I agree. It'd be great to get an amicable divorce. Even just a divorce on education, healthcare, immigration, or the social safety net. The problem is the whole thing is a Ponzi Scheme and a big swath of the country is the spendthrift, abusive, debtor husband. A significant defection means the scheme collapses and it's much easier just to beat people into submission rather than face the debt collectors empty handed.
Hmmm
"passing the cost of theirbirresponsibilty on"
Now do drug use. Or gay anal sex.
AIDS/HIV costs a lot more than COVID.
What else can we mandate people do/not do? (hee hee "man date")
I guess we can outlaw cigarettes, alcohol, and refined carbs as well....
And motorcycles. And football
Funny thing about that. in the UK the NHS did a study (others have found similar) of lifetime costs of vices like smoking or obesity.
The obese and the smokers cost LESS to the health care system. Same with motorcycle riders, all things being equal.
Turns out you spend most of your health care dollars in the last year of life, no matter what (on aggregate, of course), so not having to deal with long term, late-life issues like bad joints, dimentia and alzheimers, and general decline nets you quite a few health care dollars over a person's lifetime.
So, not only is outlawing smoking and motorcycles a great example of what could happen with health-insurance-totalitarianism, it's also counterproductive so adds a touch of Kafka to the mix.
"I'm doing my part, are you?"
I guess you failed to notice that the moment AIDS prevention became available, EVERYBODY GOT IT, EVERYBODY PRAISED IT? Nobody said nah, I want unprotected sex with unvaccinated partners. But that's what the "vaccine-resistant" are saying. A baloney analogy. Incidentally, for the past two decades, AIDS has been a disease of POOR BLACK AND BROWN HETEROSEXUAL WOMEN AND THEIR CHILDREN, NOT GAY MEN.
No, it hasn't, gay and bisexual men remain the biggest population of HIV cases. This only makes sense because they are the most susceptible to the virus because of the nature of sexual contact.
"I guess you failed to notice that the moment AIDS prevention became available, EVERYBODY GOT IT,.."
You.
Are.
STILL.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
...what the fuck did I just read and what flavor of idiot posted it?
What aids prevention became available, there is still no vaccines and people still have unprotected sex. So what prevention are you fucking talking about?
People are still having sex. This AIDS thing's not working.
LOL
You mad, bro?
Haha.
Mandate a BMI under 30?
Obesity, especially morbid obesity, is a huge contributor to COVID mortality rates.
Morbid obesity also costs taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars every year.
Clown car concerned with freedom? What did people do without during WWll to help the cause? Millions were drafted. Isn't that stealing your freedom!!! People accepted rationing of goods. That had to interfere with their freedoms!! People died for a cause greater than themselves, and sacrificed their lives while the anti vax clown show won't give up their precious sleeve to get a safe effective jab that will end the covid war. Selfish, ignorant, death merchants all.
How about the fact that if you tell your boss you will not wear a hard hat, you will not be drug screened, you will not follow OSHA guidelines, you will not obey traffic laws, you will not stop smoking in the office because it impacts your freedoms!!! You would have your freedom form any job for the remainder of your simple life.
Walk into a restaurant smoking crack, with your dick hanging out because that's how you feel free!!! You will be free of civilization for the next 10 years as you sing freedom songs from jail.
People stood calmly in lines for hours to get smallpox vaccine, and those that didn't were forced to get it. Your great Founder George Washington said all troops had to be vaccinated against smallpox. Polio was a crippling, deadly disease for millions and if not for vaccine programs it would still be harming and killing children. The dead are free is a slogan you fools should use.
Grow up, do the right thing for you, your family, your community, your country and your world and get vaccinated you whiny little bitches. You demand some bizarre notion of freedom and you cannot find it in your tiny brains that until this pandemic ends, your life will be filled with more and more restrictions. You will be banned from traveling to evolved countries. You will be fired from your jobs, you will be unwanted in most public places outside anti vax, and white nationalist rallies. Of course you will be welcomed at Mar-a-Lago, and My Pillow conventions where you can wear your stunted brain freedom pins and hats.
Face it, you are the problem, you continue to make the problem worse, and you are starting to take kids and young adults to the grave for your freedoms!!!! Florida funeral homes are begging your Ron Death Santis for refrigeration trucks to keep the dead trumpsters, anti vaxxers, anti science DeSantis loyalists cold until they can be given a proper burial. People who need ICU beds for normal life conditions are forced to hope for the best as the anti vax covid take up all the beds. Leading cause of death for cops in FL? Covid. Because so many are trumpster ignorant that they refuse to get vaccinated. Very macho apparently. DeSantis is now doing spots to get police form out of state into FL because so many FL cops are dead or sick from covid. Freedom!!!
Better get to your local feed store and get your ivermectin. That says freedom!!! all over it. Fox News has a vaccine mandate, but as you watch your Hannity, Carlson loves, you shout freedom!!! If they didn't get vaccinated they would be guests on Steve Bannon podcasts asking to help with their Go Fund Me campaigns to keep them in the lifestyle they have become accustomed to.
Stick your deluded, demented, delusional freedom where the sun don't shine. You are trapped in a world where you will become more isolated, more scorned and more unwarted, and unemployable. You are no different than the rats of the plague. You carry and transmit a deadly disease without a care in the world. The only difference is the rats do not have the capacity to know any better.
Stuff your assholish attempt at false premise up your ass, slaver; your head wants company.
A) fuck you, craven slaver.
B) it's a flu that has an tiny sliver of a chance to kill anyone in decent health and not >70. Kinda like all the other ones.
C) calm down.
D) my liberties are not negotiable.
E) is this SQRSLY?
Looks like the muted one(s) have resorted to new socks.
Not enough CAPS to be spaz - likely just a new steaming pile of lefty shit.
These sorts of threads get linked on Vox and other brain-dead sites, which draws assholes like this and the new Hick.
All hoping they are presenting brand-new arguments which WE HAVE NEVER CONSIDERED until the brightness of their appearance inspires us!
Only to learn it's the same tired, steaming pile of lefty shit we get from Tony, turd, sarc commie shit and the lot of them.
Seriously... Hard to tell if it's a sock or another vapid collegiate with a brain full of social justice. They all have been fed the same shit and trained not to question.
Your math skills are about as sharp as your analytical skills. Ask the millions of long haul covid if they think it is just like the flu.
Facts (I know that they will get you angry since Alex jones doesn't spew them to you daily) So far, more than 38 million people have had COVID-19 in the U.S. as reported by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). More than 630,000 people have died of COVID-19 in the U.S. in 2020 and 2021.
By comparison, during the 2019-2020 flu season in the U.S., about 38 million people had the flu and about 22,000 people died of the flu.
COVID-19 and flu complications
COVID-19 can cause different complications from the flu, such as blood clots and multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children.
COVID-19 and flu treatments
Another difference is that the flu can be treated with antiviral drugs. Only one antiviral drug, called remdesivir, is currently approved to treat COVID-19. Researchers are evaluating many drugs and treatments for COVID-19. Some drugs may help reduce the severity of COVID-19.
I am a slave to no one. I am an independent business and do not work for the slave employer, as most of you do. I make my own hours, I go where I want when I want to. I do feel a responsibility to those around me and prefer to think of not only myself when making decisions. I have family, friends, neighbors, and a community that deserves respect, and that respect comes form me be ing vaccinated. Putting others at risk is irresponsible, selfish, arrogant, and needless. It is a simple jab of a little needle. I am not sacrificing much to have a greater impact. I may be a slave to the science, but I am not a slave to stupidity, and narcissism. Now you can go back to counting your bitcoin and polishing your handgun freeman...
"...I am a slave to no one. I am an independent business and do not work for the slave employer, as most of you do..."
Except to those wearing boots needing a lick or two.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
...except you believe people don't have a right to physical autonomy, slaver.
I repeat myself; this flu is unlikely in the extreme to kill you if you are not old or already sick. 80% of fatalities >65 and the remainder primarily comorbidities.
Covid is not a threat to me.
The vaccines are a threat to me, with the perpetually undercounted VAERS tallying +14k dead, half a million complications and hundreds of birth defects reported. (If you want to say shoddy VAERS data, lemme throw it right back with UNTESTED PRODUCT.)
You put others at risk driving. You put others at risk by being Hepatitis positive in public. You put others at risk by a million things responsible adults have somehow managed to deal with (like getting sick) before we had to have a nanny state initiate the biggest vaccine trial in history against a virus that always will mutate faster than a product can be created and distributed.
But that's all secondary to this simple issue; personal phsyical autonomy. My body, my choice, slaver.
And that shiny gun is exactly what guarantees everyone's rights to freedom against a tyrannical government.
You're welcome.
If you believe you must always do what government tells you, then you are a slave.
Continue to threaten our freedoms and you will find WuFlu to be the least of your health concerns.
Leave us alone, or else.
Fuck off, slaver.
Washington ordered smallpox for the military, you give up a lot of your liberties when you join the military, that is understood. That is a stupid comparison. Vaccine mandates for the voluntary military (there was no conscription in the Revolution) totally equals mandates for civilian. Fuck and you think that is an intelligent point?
"Your great Founder George Washington said all troops had to be vaccinated against smallpox."
Inoculated or variolized, not vaccinated (as the vaccine had not been developed yet).
Armed only with a primitive understanding of contagion and immunity, Washington had to decide between several anti-smallpox schemes, each with its own significant risks.
“It comes down to herd immunity,” says Fenn. “You either have to let people be exposed to the disease and naturally acquire immunity, which could be devastating for his troops and have devastating consequences for the war. Or somehow quarantine your troops, which means they’re not going to be able to fight. Or immunize them.”
But, immunization in the 1770s was not what it’s like today with a single injection and a low risk of mild symptoms. Edward Jenner didn’t even develop his revolutionary cowpox-based vaccine for smallpox until 1796. The best inoculation technique at Washington’s disposal during the Revolutionary War was a nasty and sometimes fatal method called “variolation.”
“An inoculation doctor would cut an incision in the flesh of the person being inoculated and implant a thread laced with live pustular matter into the wound,” explains Fenn. “The hope and intent was for the person to come down with smallpox. When smallpox was conveyed in that fashion, it was usually a milder case than it was when it was contracted in the natural way.”
Variolization still had a case fatality rate of 5 to 10 percent. And even if all went well, inoculated patients still needed a month to recover. The procedure was not only risky for the individual patient, but for the surrounding population. An inoculee with a mild case might feel well enough to walk around town, infecting countless others with potentially more serious infections.
[History.com]
Troops are not citizens.
Nice attempt at apples and oranges though.
And it still ignores the fact that he ordered it for a volunteer military force, comparing what the military can force people to do to a civilian is just asinine.
Yeah, I was just correcting the OP's language, not supporting his rant.
"Fully 80 percent of deaths have occurred among people over 65 and just 358 children under the age of 17 had died of the disease as of July 29, 2021."
Hmmm, only 358 children die every month. I guess that's reasonable. It's only 4300 a year. Who wants those little bastards around anyway. With those kind of numbers, there's no reason for abortions anymore. Have a kid you don't want. Give it COVID. Problem solved.
Where are you getting 358 per month???
Where did you get 'monthly'? According to the CDC data that's a summation of all ever existing.
Exactly. Almost eighteen months of data. Bet more kids drown in the backyard pool.
Buttplug’s NAMBLA chapter has probably killed more kids than COVID.
I think you got the numbers from Chicago weekends mixed up.
"...Hmmm, only 358 children die every month..."
You been called on your lies, sanctimonious ASSHOLISH twat - care to apologize?
Or should we just accept that boot-lickers like you really don't care about facts, just the amount of control you can exercise?
Man that is a dumb post. Better luck next time, champ.
layofflist has said it all. I defy you "freedom" nuts in here to respond. He or she has called all your bluffs. Checkmate, and skillfully done.
layofflist is a fucking slaver; you and he both can kindly fuck off and die.
Yep, a list of false dichotomies, talking points (I've heard about Washington's smallpox requirement like 4 times in the last two days), and ranting is so skillful and worth rebutting.
Go find a similar rant about libs wanting every decision from cradle to grave made by Joe Biden and maybe you'll understand. But probably not.
You call that frothing incoherence "skillfully done?"
Hell, no wonder you're a Biden voter.
It’s his sock. So he’s just trying to brag.
If you think that is checkmate you obviously suck at chess also. And if you think that drivel was skillful, I worry about your intelligence. Do you live in a halfway house for those with mental disabilities by chance?
It wasn't even check. He moved his queen into a vulnerable position and left her unsupported. And then is surprised when his queen gets took.
#chesscuck?
No mandate for all those illegals pouring across the border.
No mandate for all those living off the government dole.
"All those illegals pouring across the border." Tell you what. You go collect their names, addresses, and places of employment, and we'll happily make sure they are vaccinated.
"All those living off the government dole." Such as whom? Social Security recipients who paid into the system for a lifetime? The disabled, also covered by Social Security into which everyone, including the self-employed, pays when able to earn income? You can't mandate them because they earned what they've got without further conditions. Other forms of government aid are also entitlements which Congress passed without further conditions of eligibility. Mandates only work for those WITHOUT entitlements, such as government employees who, like private sector employees, can be FIRED for noncompliance with a mandatory vaccination policy.
Maybe that will help you understand how public policy law actually works.
So our newest slaver mentions about the ONLY way (supposedly) a pub-sec worker can be fired.
Note the SEIU has not yet checked in on this, so the slaver is guessing.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
So, let me see if I can follow your logic. You want everyone to get vaccinated to protect others but admit that it is impossible to track 20,000,000 illegal aliens. Doesn't the second fact dispute the first fact? Why yes it does.
And this is why you think layofflist drivel was skillful. Because you lack basic logic and intellectual honesty.
On the bright side and in other news, California is in free fall. Incredible
https://www.kron4.com/news/california/companies-are-rapidly-leaving-california-in-2021-stanford-researchers-find/
Sadly, they're still liable for taxes for years after leaving Commiefornia, unless that monstrosity got repealed...
I have seriously been considering going back to Texas.
Love to have you back, but we will require loyalty oath now.
jk
I had a professor in law school who said that the law permits one to be a damn fool, but it will not protect one from his own foolishness.
The problem is that a fool can bring harm to other people. A friend of mine who had not been vaccinated has been sick for nearly 4 weeks and still running an elevated temperature. The problem is that he is a pilot. So, for the past 4 weeks, his carrier has been having to assign reserve pilots to fly his trips. That's costing his employer money.
The fact that people aren't getting vaccinated, means I have to wear a damn mask in stores, restaurants, etc. Today, I've got irritated eyes due to allergies, and my hot breath coming out the top of my mask just made my eyes more painful, itchier, and more watery.
I get so damn tired of hearing, "It's not tested." Yes it is. The testing was condensed, compared to the typical approval process, but it was tested.
Hell, more drugs should be tested this way, instead of the years-long process.
Besides, how many people who worry that it's not tested smoke, drink alcohol to excess regularly, are overweight, or regularly eat foods that always upset their digestive system?
People who won't get vaccinated are like Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, who ruined things for everyone else who goes through an airport.
If this doesn't work, I have a better idea. No vaccination, no tax refund. For people who always get a refund, maybe the lack of a check for a few hundred to a few thousand dollars every spring my get them to stop being s$%t heads.
"...The fact that people aren’t getting vaccinated, means I have to wear a damn mask in stores, restaurants, etc..."
No, it's the government who is forcing you to do so. I have an idea: every slaver posting here can stick it up his ass, and then fuck off and die.
"That’s costing his employer money."
Fuck you. That sick leave/PTO was a benefit that his employer agreed to provide as part of his compensation package.
"If this doesn’t work, I have a better idea. No vaccination, no tax refund. For people who always get a refund, maybe the lack of a check for a few hundred to a few thousand dollars every spring my get them to stop being s$%t heads."
HAHAHA HAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Your lack of knowledge about how tax refunds work (no tax refund? Then I'll lower my withholdings, idiot) is probably only rivaled by your lack of common sense.
And general assholery.
"I had a professor in law school who said that the law permits one to be a damn fool, but it will not protect one from his own foolishness..."
Did the prof also point out it allows asshole busy-bodies like you to be asshole busy-bodies, asshole busy-body?
There's more piles of bullshit to mine from your assholic rant, but maybe later.
Poor baby, don't worry, of course mommy will build that wall.
Also, if your mask is venting like that it is not effectively fitted to your face and you are potentially compromising the health of all around you, as fully vaccinated can transmit and die from these new variants.
Better forfeit that tax refund and turn yourself in for biological terrorism, or just for being a sanctimonious twat.
"...sanctimonious ASSHOLISH twat." - you left that out and it is certainly appropriate here.
There is not enough space or stamina in my thumbs to tap out all the names I'd like to call them, so I settle... But you are very correct.
Fuck off, slaver.
I had a law professor... That explains all we need to know about your understanding of science and how it works.
I'll do you one better. I had a pathophysiology and immunology professor who taught us that it is damn near impossible to create herd immunity with a vaccine alone, if the pathogen has multiple hosts (which COVID does) or mutates quickly (which COVID). She also taught us that pathogens that have low mortality but high morbidity, especially if they have multiple hosts, don't disappear, they persist in the environment. COVID, high morbidity, low mortality, multiple hosts... I think if we are going to appeal to authorities I'll take the professor with a PhD in immunology and multiple peer reviewed research on the subject over your law professor.
If the vaccine works, then there is no reason to where a mask, but if it doesn't work. Well you figure that one out if you are capable.
Haha. Or maybe they’ll just adjust their withholding, you fucking moron.
Deal?
Some faults in your logic;
To begin, Biden's rule would only actually require frequent testing for employees of affected businesses if those employees do not want the vaccine.
OK, so perhaps the 153,000,000 or so Americans who have yet to be vaccinated decide for whatever good or bad reasons that they do not want to get vaccinated for Covid19. So, using your number, we can expect another 300,000 Americans to die & it would seem that your logic suggests that it is a matter of the personal choice whether or not someone takes that risk. I suppose that you would also support the right of insurance companies to deny coverage to people who engage in risky behavior? But I digress.
What you fail to consider is the fact that this particular coronavirus is extremely contagious & while the current mortality rate of 0.2% doesn't seem that extreme (so long as it is no-one in your family), you fail to consider mutations & rate of mutation.
It is solid science that when a significant number of persons are transmitting the virus that the virus will mutate more rapidly. It is certainly reasonable to assume that with large numbers of persons transmitting the virus (including vaccinated persons with a higher survival rate), the virus will mutate more rapidly & quite possibly (even probably) develop strains against which the vaccinations are ineffective & the mortality rate much greater.
There is also the fact that there will always be individuals who will have legitimate health reasons why they can't take the vaccine even though they might wish to do so. Those whose only justification is the fear induced by rumor-mongering & misinformation are putting those individuals at risk as well.
Imposition of vaccine mandates should always have exceptions for those with legitimate medical issues but that isn't really what is happening here. Most vaccine hesitant are victims of misinformation. By perpetuating this vaccine reluctance, leaders in certain circles are greatly increasing the rate at which the virus will develop strains which are much more deadly & quite possibly result in a much worse health environment for the country.
Libertarians purportedly prioritize the harm to others as the primary basis for controls on individuals. By opposing mandatory vaccines for those without valid health exceptions, you are greatly increasing the risk to others vis-a-vis increasing the risk of deadlier mutations & the risk to those who are unable to vaccinate. You cite smallpox as an example of where you apparently feel that it is acceptable for the government to impose its will on individuals. While the individual risk of death from this coronavirus might be small, the risk of transmission is very high. The more transmission occurs, the greater the risk becomes to every other citizen. I have some inclination to agree with you that if an individual is only putting their own life at risk, we might be able to justify that as acceptable. However, the fact is that because so many people are unwilling to get vaccinated, they are greatly increasing the risk to the more prudent folks who have enough sense to protect themselves from a deadly disease. Similarly with mask mandates. It is true that masks are of limited value in protecting the person wearing the mask. The reason for wearing masks is because it protects other people! But then, there are apparently quite a few folks out there for whom protecting their fellow citizens is a much lower priority than suffering the inconvenience of placing a small piece of paper or cloth in front of their mouth & nose.
Karen, is that you?
"Some faults in your logic;.."
Major fault in your bullshit; I don't lick boots or show papier, asshole.
Fault in your logic. How many of those 153,000,000 are eligible for the vaccine? Anyone under 12 isn't. Anyone who has had a reaction to the vaccine or any of it's adjuvants isn't and people with certain medical conditions aren't eligible. So the number of people who can get the vaccine who haven't is far less than 153,000,000.
The second fault in your logic, what percentage of the unvaccinated population is in the at risk category? By age of vaccinated, the number is actually fairly small. The third fault with your logic is what percentage of that unvaccinated population has already had the virus and therefore has at least some (research suggests strong) immunity?
Taken all of this into the equation the number of modeled deaths would be far less than 300,000. Additionally your model assumes 100% susceptibility and infection. That hasn't proven to be even close.
As to the protect other people, what other things do we require people to inject into their bodies to protect others? Body autonomy is the most basic freedom. If it can be taken away in an "emergency" (which has lasted 18 months and looks to last quite a bit longer) what other freedoms can be taken away in the name of emergencies
As to your rate of mutations and transmission, you are technically correct. However, mass vaccinations can also cause evolutionary pressure towards vaccine resistance if the vaccine isn't a sterilizing vaccine (which this vaccine isn't even close to being). And you failed to take into account animal hosts other than hominids. The list of animal hosts grows each day and at least some have been shown capable of transmitting to humans, the rest we just don't know yet. So, even with 100% vaccinations of human, the rate of mutations in animal hosts will not be effected. This means that the rate of mutations will likely not be significantly reduced even with high rates of vaccinations.
soldiermedic argues with ATCme's numbers, but not the principles he describes, except the last one on hosts. Let's stipulate that even if soldier is correct, we are still talking about millions of unvaccinated Americans who can and should be, and tens to hundreds of thousands of probably unnecessary deaths - does that change the argument? No.
As to hosts, soldier says some animals have been shown capable of transmitting to humans, but acts as if a large pool of available human hosts is both a negligible factor in the development of Covid variants and somehow not capable of transmitting to some animals. In his mind, animals are more effective than humans at transmitting new strains and the latter are no longer worth concerning ourselves with. None of this is established fact and is only his wishful thinking seeking more excuses for his real goal, which is extreme individualism, not what is best practice for humans seeking to overcome Covid. And on that principle, the ship sailed in 1905 with a court ruling on vaccines.
Cause the courts NEVER get things wrong.
I have no moral obligation to protect you from nature.
"...Let’s stipulate that even if soldier is correct, we are still talking about millions of unvaccinated Americans who can and should be, and tens to hundreds of thousands of probably unnecessary deaths – does that change the argument? No..."
Let's stipulate that slavers fuck off and die.
You obviously didn't understand what I wrote, because I in no way implies what you suggested I implies. Ergo you are to scientifically illiterate to pontificate on this matter.
Where did I imply that a large pool of human hosts doesn't facilitate mutation? You are arguing with the voices in your head.
A court ruled in 1905 that a STATE could enforce a LAW passed by the STATE LEGISLATURE about vaccines.
A president in 2021 who, by executive order, is giving an unelected bureaucratic office power to force private employers to vaccine, test, or be shut down via fines is related to that case exactly how?
And the courts never get it wrong or are overturned. Except for all the times that that has happened. And the courts of the early 20th century have been overruled quite a bit because they had a tendency towards sacrificing freedom to the government. It wasn't that long after that decision that the courts ruled that the States had the right to force sterilization.
Another point. You say a large population of unvaccinated. If the estimates are right, about 20% of the world population is not eligible for vaccines because if age, co-morbidities or previous reactions to the vaccine or it's adjuvants. So if we use that number, 20% of 7 billion people is 1.4 billion people, that seems like a fairly large pool of humans for the virus to circulate through and mutate. In the USA alone that is 64,000,000. Even if the number is halved, to 10% (which only is possible by developing a vaccine for kids which a year later hasn't happened) that number remains at 32,000,000. At 5% unvaccinated (which is not possible unless you ignore medical exemptions) that number deceases to 16,000,000. At 99% with 1% unvaccinated that number is 3.2 million in the US alone.
In veterinary medicine (where the concept of herd immunity was created and most practiced) the general rule is 80%, but only if it is a closed herd with strong pest control. The pest control is necessary to keep disease carrying vectors to the minimum. I mention animal hosts because in the human side of medicine the animal hosts act the same way as pests do in the veterinary world, disease vectors.
So to achieve herd immunity, it would require us to close our borders and allow no one to travel outside our borders and return, controlling all animal hosts and 80% or better vaccination rates. The last part is the least important part. Any pre-vet student can tell you you can't vaccinate away poor management. Vaccines are only an adjunct.
As a rancher, I don't co graze with other ranchers unless they follow the same vaccination regime as I do, and even then, they have to quarantine away from any other animals, including other animals from the same herd for at least two weeks. I spray all my cattle for fly control and spend a ton of money each year on self applicator dusters for fly control. I vaccinate all calves at birth and again at weaning, and vaccinate all cows and heifers once a year at pregnancy check. When I bring in a new cow or heifer it is quarantined for two weeks. I control deer and bird populations by hunting and allowing others to hunt on my property. I quarantine any animal that appears sick and treat them accordingly. I constantly monitor them, usually in the evening when I refill my stock tanks (it's the easiest time as they are grouped near the tanks at that time). I check fresh manure daily for signs of disease. And I have a MS in Animal science so have the education to know what I am looking for. Despite all of this in 2020 I lost 20% of my calves to viral scours and 10% this year to pneumonia.
I don't just have the education needed to understand herd immunity, I practice it. I know the energy required to achieve it. And I am a beef rancher, I accept 10-20% calf losses because of the nature of the industry. The pork and poultry industries are even stricter. The key to herd immunity is biosecurity. And the pork and poultry industry really is tight on biosecurity. To get into a commercial pork or poultry farm you have to answer a questionnaire. Not own any pork or poultry of your own. Not be around any pork or poultry for 2 weeks. Change your clothes before you enter. Walk through a bleach bath for your boots (which have to have come from the facility and can't leave the facility) before you enter. Be up to date on a variety of vaccinations. Not have a runny nose or cough. And all animals are housed in environmentally controlled housing with locked doors. And they practice what is called all in, all out. All the piglets or chicks are the same age. Come in as a group, from the same rearing farm, are housed and raised as a group, and then all are shipped out as a group. Then the housing is sterilized top to bottom before the next group arrives. And pest control that is simply impractical for anything but a completely closed system. And strict vaccinations and often prophylactic antibiotics (although this practice is decreasing because of consumer demand). And they still have 1-5% death loss from disease.
The moral is even under the strictest biosecurity measures (far more than we could implement in the human world) with 100% vaccinations even the animal food industry is incapable of of achieving true herd immunity.
The aim is for functional herd immunity and can only be achieved by controlling every aspect of their lives that is practical to control. In the beef industry we raise our breeding cattle on pasture or range so we have far less control than pork or poultry, or even dairy farms. And despite my constant monitoring and control measures, I am barely able to achieve even functional herd immunity. Now try implementing even part of what I do for humanity.
If I just relied on vaccinations I would never be capable of even achieving functional herd immunity.
I'm Canadian, so you can disregard my input if you like, but I have a query. What would it take to impeach Biden? The last guy was impeach over quite literally nothing. Now(Like literally only moments ago), on top of everything Biden has fumbled, it looks like he may have droned an American citizen thinking it was some IS clown, or something.
I don't mean it just happened, but the new is just breaking about the error.
Or an AID worker, plus some kids.
First thing it would take is for a D majority to admit the asshole's a demented, slobbering excuse for a human, unfit for dog-catcher.
(Or, specifically, a majority of the House of Representatives to vote for impeachment. Which is not going to happen this year or next, but might in 2023 if the house slides into Republican control.)
A better bet would be a palace coup in the form of use of the 25th Amendment which would allow his removal as "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" as declared by more than half of the cabinet. But that puts Harris in as activing POTUS, and you have to ask yourself, is that any better?
Only if the R's had nothing to do with it; it would cost political capital and it's hard to see any improvement.
There would need to be a majority of the GOP in the House, and a majority of the House would need to impeach.
Buuuuut...that leads to the Senate in which 67 Senators would have to vote to remove the president.
in other words almost no chance of removal, unless the GOP magically gains seats.
Biden will resign before that happens anyway.
The RINOs won’t vote to convict. Good luck getting even a majority there. The usual suspects would stab America in the back again.
He's gotta be a REALLY big eh-hole.
Realistically, we are waiting for midterms when Dems lose control of House and Senate.
“…eh-hole.”
Haha. Nice, eh?
I admire Canadians for abolishing all laws bullying girls, ditching conscription and refraining from bombing and invading in general. But as in Canada, Americans who oppose the initiation of force and prefer freedom are outvoted roughly 32 to 1. This is much better than before 1972, but the fact remains that herd voters want the alpha monkey to kill people on the other side of the world, and those voters got what they deserve. The rest of us change things slowly by voting Libertarian instead of whining.
President Pudding brain needs to take at least one Pfizer shot every week until the expected results begin to materialize.
Of Biden's six points, only one dealt with treatment, and even that wasn't aimed at developing treatments but aimed at surge control by surging medical personal and equipment to areas with spikes. This is an entirely reactive approach. The money the US government will spend enforcing these mandates would be much better spent developing new treatments. As with Afghanistan, we see a pattern of behavior, Biden is an entirely reactive planner not a proactive planner. History demonstrates time and time again that reactive planning leads to failure.
Nothing in Biden's past suggest he has the ability to learn from his mistakes. His MO has always been to double down and get angry and attack those who point out his mistakes or question his approach. This won't change, because at his age people rarely change.
This isn't a problem unique to Biden though, it is how government is built. Government tends to be reactive and that is why government approaches tend to fail.
AOC told us that the word "surge" is racist.
Just like they did with Obama's executive amnesty. Or Obama's executive oil lease moratorium.
Some of the people supporting Biden's authoritarian COVID-19 vaccine mandate are the same hypocrites chanting "My body, my choice" and are losing their minds over the Texas abortion law.
You say a vaccine mandate is a violation of a private right. The Texas abortion law is also a violation of a private right. The difference is that your choice to refuse vaccination threatens the health of others. Whereas the choice to abort an unwanted pregnancy affects nobody but the patient herself. If your refusal of vaccination affected nobody else, just as a private medical procedure threatens no one else, the whole country would readily accept your right to refuse.
And the unborn baby. You forgot that person.
This icky crap is like when the Mormons come around.
Nobody believed a fetus was a person until the 1980s. Certainly not the omnipotent creator of the cosmos, or he would have said so in his book.
Bullshit. When people lost their pregnancy, like my mother did in 1975 they didn't say they lost a fetus, they said they lost the baby. Fucking any review of pre-1980 literature would show you are full of shit.
Lack of knowledge of the expression "with child" is impressively ignorant, even for a sock.
Our euphemisms are hopeful.
Do you invite the entire family around for a funeral every time you have a miscarriage?
Some people do. I don't judge them for it. Personally I haven't had to deal with that, as luckily my wife never miscarried.
Sure she did. Women lose embryos all the time without even knowing it. Nobody holds a funeral for a baby nobody knew existed.
Highly unlikely as we used birth control except when we were trying to conceive and then she got pregnant almost immediately each time. So no it is highly unlikely.
So, you know you were wrong, but you are incapable of admitting because you lack intellectual honesty. We got it.
Literary license is not LAW. Suppose a soldier dies leaving a pregnant wife. Is the embryo/fetus a dependent child entitled to survivor benefits? Since when? And if yes, what if wife miscarries? Whoops! Is that the same as an actual, living, independently acting 5-year old getting run over in the street?
The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments both declare that government shall not take a PERSON'S life without due process of law. This has NEVER been understood as including unborn, potential persons. Had that ever been the law, the Roe v. Wade lawsuit could never have been brought. What the Church of Rome and its allies now want to do is create a NEW definition of "person" in the civil law to mirror Church doctrine. In other words, they want to impose their religion on the whole society, just as they did in Western Europe in the Middle Ages. Then the Enlightenment happened, and the Church has been fighting back ever since.
Yes, the child is entitled to survivor benefits.
As the child of a slain soldier, rather you were born or not before he was slain, you are entitled to free education at any military academy. You get tri-care until you turn 18. The mother is entitled to SGLI. You get SS until you turn 18. Etc.
“….they want to impose their religion on the whole society….”
Ummmmm……. Lol. Yeah.
Show me where in the Bible it mentions the word fetus?
And I can think of several verses in the Bible where the refer to an unborn baby as a child.
From the book of Luke: When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Unborn-Fetuses
Judeo-Christian mythology is not American law. Can you get that through your head?
I never said it was. Tony brought up the fucking Bible I was disputing his claim. Not hard to see dipshit.
And our laws actually are based upon Anrahamic traditions. So you are wrong about that as well. Benjamin Franklin described the Revolutionary spirit and the founding documents as the American Exodus. That was a common theme at the time of our founding. So, your argument is historically inaccurate, besides not actually addressing why I mentioned the Bible. You drive by commentators are getting less and less perceptive.
*Abrahamic
And I only brought up the Judeo-Christian roots of our laws because you mentioned it first (and like Tony mentioning the Bible) your reference is historically inaccurate.
Christian mythology sure as hell was German National Socialist law. Positive Christianity is written all over their platform, the 1933 Enabling Act, and church bells cast in Hitler quotes and swastikas. There is a large industry dedicated to pretending that these never happened, but that there really was a historical Jesus whose suicidal altruist followers were only discovered and recorded by the Romans in CE 120 or so because of bad luck.
From the book of Exodus: If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she gives birth prematurely, yet there is no injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide.
Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Unborn-Fetuses
In the links I provided are several other quotes that make it clear that the baby was considered a living being.
The Bible days slavery is good but shellfish is bad. I didn’t actually mean to imply that it holds some kind of moral or scientific authority here.
You were the one who brought it up that the Bible (wrongly) doesn't refer to the unborn baby as a person. If you bring it up, rather you consider it a good resource or not, expect others to disprove you. I had no intention of mentioning the Bible until you brought it up and were completely wrong. This is called goal post shifting. You got bitch slapped for your bullshit now you are saying it isn't a valid resource, even though you brought it up. I'll add goal post shifting to your bag of tricks, along with straw man and appeals to authority. Keep it up and you'll nail all the logical fallacies.
Tony could empty out Lowes nailing logical fallacies.
If we use the Guttmacher data the annual abortion rate is 800,000+, higher than lat year's death's from COVID.
"...The difference is that your choice to refuse vaccination threatens the health of others..."
You.
Are.
STILL.
Full.
Of.
Shit.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
Your argument is idiotic. The abortion law prevents the murder of an unborn infant. A vaccine made date forces an individual to be injected with a substance they might not want.
Hahahahahaha
Goddamn that is stupid.
And no, you don’t deserve more of a response than that.
I knew my child existed from the night of conception. I support everyone's right to physical autonomy and self-determination, including the unborn.
It's not a fetus, a clump of cells, a mistake or any other dehumanizing term people use to feel less like murderers; that's a child, more helpless than they will ever be in life, and swizzling them out with a vacuum tube to make life simpler for mom is just as vile as the pederast in the candy wagon on the corner grabbing Johnny up 6 years later.
So yes, refuse the vaccine and adopt an unwanted child so it at least gets a chance.
Texas enforced the Fugitive Slave Law until Billy Sherman invited everyone East of the Mississippi to railroad track necktie parties and taught how to burn everything--not just crosses and shanties. Improvement is visible, in that no longer do you see 20,000 attending the State Fair ku-klux-Klanbakes in Dallas.
This is why I make an annual contribution to Reason!
Bravo on the clear statement that enough is enough!
Enough was enough about 18 months ago.
Its really time for a national divorce.
Would really be a great solution short of the fact that Democrats work on a "conquer and consume" mentality. Once their 'place' is consumed into a sh*thole it's off to conquer the next green pasture someone else made. The mentality is already abundantly represented by the need to take everything Nationally.
Joe Biden, the President of the United States, has declared war on the American people. This is not some 3rd world dictatorship, this is the United States of America. We don't go around forcing people into behavior just because we don't agree with their choices. Make no mistake. This is an issue about the freedom of choice. Those who chose to get vaccinated have done so and those who have chosen not to be vaccinated are now being unjustly persecuted. There is no longer any legitimate public health argument.
Neither the President, nor Anthony Fauci of the CDC, are following the science. If either of them had bothered to read the this article from 'Science' 16 Aug 2021 about vaccinations in Israel, they would know that ...as of Aug. 15, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19... 59% were fully vaccinated. This isn't an opionion or a conclusion, this is a fact.
59% of those hospitalized with severe COVID were FULLY VACCINATED. Any rational human being can see that vaccination isn't going to stop COVID. This begs the question. Is the president rational? It appears that Anthony Fauci no longer cares about anything but his own ego since he, of all people, should realize that his continuing mantra that getting vaccinated will solve everything is false. It won't and he knows it. He just loves to hear himself talk apparently. The President, however, is another story. This is a man who is guilty of dereliction of duty to the Constitution of the United States. There is no doubt. He is no longer representing the People. In an act of absolute hubris, he has chosen to show his disdain for anyone who does not agree with him. The President's ignorance is only exceeded by his arrogance. This man needs to be removed from office now. Please.
Vaccines are not going to stop Covid. Herd immunity is a myth outside of very small isolated populations and everybody should wake up now and put a stop to this insanity. People are going to die. This is a fact. It has always been a fact and it isn't going to change. Accept it. Stop feeding the fear. COVID isn't hurting the world. Government reaction to COVID is hurting the world. The sooner everyone accepts the truth, the better off we will all be. It's time to wake up.
^THIS
MIDTERMS. I have always been a mixed voter, depending on qualifications, proposed policies and ability to articulate a coherent sentence, but I likely will never give any Democrat a vote on anything after their conduct over the past decade, and especially this farce of a president.
Indeed. The democrats can no longer be tolerated.
Oh, how very insightful of you. Having no answer, you resort to insults and deprecations. FYI, fines for not masking on planes has now doubled. Entry to many public gatherings is now forbidden. Vaccination is required for many purposes and new requirements are being adopted every day. I guess you losers must relish your isolation and ostracism from intelligent society. Fine. We don't want your sorry ass in our plane or at the next table at our restaurant anyhow.
Or we see the growing authoritarianism enacted in the name of the pandemic and say no more rather than blindly accepting it like the lemmings your tribe wants everyone to be.
What insults did he resort to? He made a passionate argument that you can't counter so you respond with empty rhetorical flourishes and charges unsubstantiated by what he actually wrote.
The entrenched Kleptocracy invaded Vietnam and fragging got rid of that. Then those same two looter parties ordered others to invade mystical bigots as insane as themselves. Suddenly HIV became epidemic in both the Soviet Union and These Suckered States--as if labs in mohammedan Africa were cultivating the virus and using it to contaminate the heroin soldiers in both armies were flooded with. Hmmm...
This insane vaccine horseshit is so curious. These fat morons cram all manner of Dorito-flecked sci-if chemicals in their gullets along with all manner of pill-shaped god-knows-what to cure all sorts of made up nothing.
Only when you really need to take a medication, when it is killing other people for you not to, there’s skepticism about what you put in your bodies. It must come from some specific snake-oil peddler from history.
The confidence with which you people say, with a straight face, you don’t trust the vaccine because you don’t trust the government. Not until it’s fully FDA approved you won’t!
Question: just how stupid do you people plan on becoming before it’s all over?
"This insane vaccine horseshit is so curious..."
Shitstain seems perplexed that others really aren't interested in crawling on their knees and licking those boots.
But that comes naturally to shitstain.
Sure you are. You take every utterance from the well-compensated mouths of Bret Weinstein and Joe Rogan as gospel truth. You are all followers. You are not all independently the free-thinking superheroes of your own stories. You’re just moronic sheep following the nearest shock jock you’d like to have a beer with, as usual.
Hmm… a guy whose main intellectual pursuit in life is bitch slapping other grown men, or the institution of science and medicine. Which should I listen to on the pandemic problem?
Well, the bitch slapping guy was on Fear Factor, and you don’t get there by being an idiot!
...Pull all the B.S. out and what does it read?????
Gov-Gun's can cure COVID... Huh; And here all along I thought gun's were lethal; not the cure for cancer. What are Guns doing in a health issue anyways? Do guns have vaccines in them, Do guns have food?
You know why General Electric is a government? They don't have Gov-Gun-Forces... That single item you worship like a God and revolve your whole life around; Just like a professional armed criminal.
The guns thing is your metaphor dude.
Shitstain gets frunk early, and by now, it's obvious that reading comprehension is beyond shitstain's ability.
Oh, and?
"...dude..."
Get fucked with a running rusty chainsaw, asshole.
After all these years of getting his ass obliterated I doubt it would do much to him.
How does the government enforce laws and mandates? Ultimately with guys with guns, fuck are you really that stupid you didn't get that analogy?
It really isn't that hard.
I say fuck you I won't do this at my company.
OSHA fines me.
I say fuck you I ain't paying your fine.
What happens next, OSHA calls the cops and the cops, people with guns comes over to arrest me. It always comes down to the fact that the government's entire power is backed up by people with guns.
I guess one thing we could do to get people to realize how pernicious these mask mandates are is to get some unarmed black men killed by cops trying to enforce the mask mandate.
"On the opening day of law school, I always counsel my first-year students never to support a law they are not willing to kill to enforce. Usually they greet this advice with something between skepticism and puzzlement, until I remind them that the police go armed to enforce the will of the state, and if you resist, they might kill you."
"I don’t mean this as a criticism of cops, whose job after all is to carry out the legislative will. The criticism is of a political system that takes such bizarre delight in creating new crimes for the cops to enforce. It’s unlikely that the New York legislature, in creating the crime of selling untaxed cigarettes, imagined that anyone would die for violating it. But a wise legislator would give the matter some thought before creating a crime. Officials who fail to take into account the obvious fact that the laws they’re so eager to pass will be enforced at the point of a gun cannot fairly be described as public servants.
[Stephen L. Carter]
Scratch out "selling untaxed cigarettes" and insert "getting vaccinated" or "mask mandate" and see that sometime soon, we can expect cops to kill someone for breaking these new laws.
^Excellent Comment.. +10000 Our Government would be 1000x better if every politician would live to those words.
"never to support a law they are not willing to kill to enforce"
“I can think of no surer way to destroy confidence at our most critical period than by having a leader who wears a mask.”--Robert A. Heinlein
Shitstain claims I get news from sources of which I've never heard, and then uses that fantasy to justify his knee-crawling and boot licking.
But that comes naturally to shitstain.
Every person has every Individual Right to protect themselves as much as they deem necessary at any given moment by NOT going out, wearing masks, goggles, body suit, being as Obsessive Compulsive as they 'feel' they need to be.
Blaming their LACK of responsibility and the natural consequences that follow onto *others* is the most pathetic trait of narcissistic P.O.S. to ever hit the human race. YOUR BODY --- YOUR RESPONSIBILITY....
You don’t have a right to put other people at greater risk of death via sheer recklessness. Even libertarians believe that.
"sheer recklessness" --- As in how you like to run around encouraging Gov-Guns get poked and prodded at people over everything under the sun?
Or should I include even the sun's existence in the first place; ya know with all the "Weather Changes" B.S. leftard's preach.
"You don’t have a right to put other people at greater risk of death via sheer recklessness. Even libertarians believe that."
Shitstain is stupid enough to believe you, me or others are capable of delivering a risk-free existence to shitstain, and then demonstrates his ignorance of libertarian principles.
But that sort of imbecility comes naturally to shitstain.
You don’t have a right to force people to protect you from nature.
Remember just few months ago when left-wing stalwarts like VP Candidate Harris and then-Governor Cuomo said they would not trust any vaccine developed under Trump administration?
In September, Harris, then the Democratic Party’s vice-presidential candidate, hesitated when asked if she would take a vaccine that was approved before the election.
“I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump,” Harris said, “and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he’s talking about. I will not take his word for it.”
Cuomo went further, suggesting he mistrusted not just President Donald Trump, but also the Food and Drug Administration under Trump. Asked about his confidence in the FDA, Cuomo indicated he didn’t have much.
“I’m not that confident,” Cuomo said, adding: “You’re going to say to the American people now, ‘Here’s a vaccine, it was new, it was done quickly, but trust this federal administration and their health administration that it’s safe? And we’re not 100 percent sure of the consequences.’ I think it’s going to be a very skeptical American public about taking the vaccine, and they should be.
Cuomo later announced that New York would conduct its own review of the vaccines, because, “Frankly, I’m not going to trust the federal government’s opinion, and I wouldn’t recommend [it] to New Yorkers, based on the federal government’s opinion.”
”
Various fact-checkers are working overtime these days to try to spin these comments, usually chalking them up to “because Trump” and calling it whataboutism.
Just get the goddamn shot! Argyle bargle!!1!1!
(sarcasm if no one could tell)
If you feel like you’re in an at-risk group, then by all means take whatever measures you feel are reasonable for yourself.
You can politely ask me to help you protect yourself, but don’t expect me to make any effort to help you though and if you try to force me to do so, there is going to be backlash.
If your kid is deathly allergic to peanuts, I expect you to teach your kid to not eat peanuts, to carry an epipen in case he accidentally does so, and to politely ask me if the cookies I’m serving might possibly have peanuts in them.
If you inform me before hand, I’ll probably even make an extra effort to avoid creating an issue for your kid.
But if you say “No one who sends a kid to this school can be permitted to have any peanut products in their home because they could be uncaring assholes and let their kids eat peanut butter toast and wipe their hands on their jacket before coming to school and killing my kid.” I’ll probably say “Fuck you” and slick my kid’s hair back with peanut oil and send them to school with a PB&J for lunch.
So you will abstain from homosexual sex then? To stop AIDS. You put people at risk when you let other men sodomize you.
You have no right to do that.
Since AIDS is still a thing, there should be a federal ban on sodomy, right?
It already is illegal to spread AIDS to someone against their will.
You’re demanding the right to ass rape, by this analogy.
"You’re demanding the right to ass rape, by this analogy."
You'd think shitstain might be in good shape by dragging strawmen like that around, but given that he's commonly drunk by noon, it's doubtful
Not in California it isn't anymore.
CA just legalized that. Try again.
But clearly you believe it should be legal to knowingly give a person AIDS.
What an idiot.
AIDS is less deadly than COVID these days. So why should anyone respect your right to be a COVId vector again?
I repeat, for two decades, AIDS has been a disease of poor black and brown heterosexual women and their children, NOT gay men. And homosexuals are "persons" entitled to equal protection of the laws, just like you. The Supreme Court has so held. And there has NEVER been a "federal ban on sodomy" anyhow. The Fourteenth Amendment says there can't be.
No you are still wrong no matter how much you keep repeating this lie.
"I repeat, for two decades, AIDS has been a disease of poor black and brown heterosexual women and their children, NOT gay men..."
I repeat: You are still full of shit.
HIV.gov:
"In 2019, the largest percentages of HIV infections were attributed to male-to-male sexual contact (66% overall and 81% among males.)" and "Men who have sex with men (MSM) accounted for 69% of new HIV diagnoses in the United States"
Further on HIV.gov:
Gay, bisexual and other men who have sex with men (MSM)b are the population most affected by HIV in the U.S.:
MSM accounted for 69% of new HIV diagnoses in the United States.c
From 2015 through 2019 in the United States and 6 dependent areas, Black/African American MSM accounted for more than 36% and White MSM accounted for more than 30% of HIV diagnoses among MSM annually.
In 2019, Black/African American MSM accounted for 26% (9,123) of new HIV diagnoses and 37.9% of diagnoses among all MSM.
In 2019, Hispanic/Latinod MSM made up 22% (7,820) of new HIV diagnoses and 32.5% of diagnosis among all MSM.
Hahahahahaha, that is a beautiful thing to see (not the stats on gay men getting aids, the fact that Hick just got murdered by facts).
Progtard lie told by progtard. AIDS is still primarily a disease of gay men.
And covid is primarily a disease of Trumpers.
You’ll understand if society treats you a tad harshly.
Facts not in evidence. The judges award your zero points.
There is a difference between trusting the vaccine and mandating everyone take it. Since the majority seems to be saying take the vaccine but it shouldn't be mandated, who is you people?
Tony seems only capable of arguing straw man and appeals to authority.
The majority thinks it should be mandated. We want to get back to our lives and freedom.
Shitstain thinks that if a majority thinks I should crawl on my knees and lick boots, well, that's good enough for shitstain.
Shitstain seems to forget that at one time a majority said keeping slaves was just fine!
Shitstain is not interested in "good-faith" argument; hell, shitstain wouldn't recognize "good-faith" argument if it ended up by mistake on Vox.
Shitstain has no interest in anything other than pushing lefty bullshit: Honesty? Principles? Intelligence?
Nope, not part of shitstain's repertoire. Not when shitstain hopes lies, inventions and stupidity might convince someone not quite as stupid as him.
The majority of southerners thought slavery should remain legal, so we should have let them keep slaves perpetually. The majority of states that practiced segregation and a fair minority of states that didn't, felt segregation was correct so we should have left segregation in place. The logic holds the same, the majority doesn't get to decide what is a freedom and how people can practice their own liberty.
You don’t get back your lives or freedoms by submitting to totalitarian mandates.
That is the truth, once you give the government an inch, they'll take a mile. Ask the Cherokee.
By totalitarian mandates, do you mean laws and regulations?
Do you people actually have a coherent political philosophy, or is it pretty much “I get what I want, fuck you!” all the way down?
Actually, yes laws and regulations when taken to extreme, such as denying someone body autonomy and forcing them to get injected or else, is the exact definition of tyranny and authoritarianism. Glad you are finally starting to realize that.
Oh, so you believe in submission to the law. So you’re cool with the new TX abortion law then. The majority there want that.
I believe in good laws. Just like you. Except you’re stupid. That’s the only difference.
Who gets to decide which laws are good? Good is subjective not objective. People who pushed eugenics laws in the early 20th century and alcohol prohibition (and drug prohibition) thought they were pushing them for the good of everyone. And at the time the majority of Americans thought those laws were good laws.
Yes, Tony, your a fascist/socialist. Thanks for reminding us again and again.
I can't speak for PG, but I certainly don't believe in "good laws". I think laws are always bad, but sometimes they are a necessary evil.
A lot of wisdom right there, "I think laws are always bad, but sometimes they are a necessary evil."
I mean federal mandates to forcibly inject drugs into citizens.
And by "you people", you mean gay immigrants like myself, or what?
In any case, “I get what I want, fuck you!” sums up your political ideology, Tony.
I’ll chalk you down as someone who thinks it would be a freer world if spallpox were still around.
No doubt you do. That's because in your uninformed, unscientific, superstitious mind, COVID is just like smallpox.
The only thing keeping you from getting back to your lives and freedom is your own irrational fear.
And resentment. Typical for you.
"As former Rep. Justin Amash (L–Mich.)—like me, a pro-vaccine, anti-mandate libertarian—has bluntly noted, "There is no authority for this. This is a legislative action that bypasses the legislative branch.""
Uh, there's no legislative authority for this either, Justin Amoron.
We kicked the British out for far less, and the democrats are a far greater threat.
^+1000000; I see even SCOTUS is worshipping the 'legislative' gods lately.
The USA wouldn't be falling apart if it was still the USA by definition.
Remember when (lo these many weeks) when the SCOTUS implied that the eviction moratorium would not survive a SCOTUS review, that the moratorium would need to be a legislative act. That since it was due to expire within weeks they would defer on ruling on it to allow the legislature to act so as to minimize chaos. Then President Biden admitted that extending the eviction moratorium would almost certainly be struck down, but he was going to do it anyhow. Then 2 weeks later the SCOTUS struck down the moratorium eviction. But then less than 1 month after that, the new Governor of New York, by EO re-imposed the eviction moratorium in the state of New York. Doesn't the Democrats respect for the rule of law just chill your heart?
It steams my brain.
Another example of how Biden refuses to accept dissension. He knew he didn't have the authority, he even said much. Congress didn't act so he doubles down and got angry when the USSC bitch slapped him. Anyone who doesn't see this as his MO by now is living in a cave. Hell, his own state department is refusing to let private citizens rescue Americans and SIVs that he abandoned. Because they can't verify everyone's status according to the State Department. Yet in his rush to get people out the majority who got out lacked the proper paperwork and verifications.
This is why the democrats have to go.
Sleepy Joe's much hyped over the horizon capabilities appears to be not very selective. According to the NYT, the much celebrated second drone strike last month, that supposedly killed a car bomber likely killed 13 Afghani civilians, and the person who was targeted was actually an US Aid worker hauling water for his family, further analysis of pictures taken at the site by the NYT show no signs of secondary explosions, contrary to the claims of the US military leadership at the time.
So not only weren't they terrorist, they actually worked for us and the evidence of explosives being loaded into the car was more likely containers of water. Good job Sleepy Joe. Any word on the American citizens and SIV holders that you left behind?
Hope they get out soon before Biden drones them too.
Still not convinced they nuked actual ISIS K members in the first strike as they still refuse to list their names.
They probably flattened an orphanage. But democrats believe anything they’re told to.
"...Any word on the American citizens and SIV holders that you left behind?..."
Did not save the link, but seem to remember a NYT claim this morning that "only a hundred US citizens remain".
Gonna take that claim as every bit as reliable as "the check's in the mail", and "the truck's on the way", and "I promise to pull out!".
Yeah it's magically shrunk from 500 on August 31 to now 100, while only a handful <20 have been verified to have gotten out so far. Must be that new math I keep hearing about.
I sincerely hope that some news organization keeps an eye on this; that rug's been lifted and the broom's come out.
Only the right wing news will so people like Tony etc will ignore it. I am waiting for "what difference at this point does it make"?
In a related note, did you see the report that unvetted Afghanis brought to the country are being allowed to travel freely off post, or around post and the military has no authority to stop them because the State Department and DHS is in charge and allowing it to happen?
First the assured us, and Reason was part of that, that unvetted people wouldn't be brought to the US. Then it was yes some unvetted are being brought but we know who they are. Then it was yes we have heard reports that some of the unvetted refugees brought here are married and or raping underage girls, we are investigating that is why they are being held at military posts, so that we can control them. Now it is the military has no power to hold them or arrest them. Will Reason or any other news agencies that attacked the right for asking about the vetting process retract their earlier stories?
Oh I forgot yes some people have been identified as having terrorist ties but we have a process, became DHS officials at the post in Wisconsin saying "we don't know what the procedure is to handle people who are flagged".
It is almost as bad as the ref who flagged one of our team tonight for a perfectly clean block during a broken pass play, while our QB was rolling out from behind him, for "targeting". Luckily our boys still beat the other team 56 to 16, and the other team didn't score until the 4th quarter and only scored because they were still playing their starters against our second team D.
I live by one of the bases and my workers' aunt-in-law is a cleaner there.
The stories she shares are MUCH worse than any media reports; she tells of Afghans rabbiting in the night, mugging soldiers and disease.
Taken with grains of salt, but it's consistently disturbing news.
I sincerely hope that the Biden administration is lying in this case. An alternative, truthful explanation would involve the Taliban going door to door with guns for target practice. And we know the Taliban is going door to door.
Call me crazy, but I would take mean tweets over the guy who is willing to sick the DoJ on any governor who disagrees with him, and now is willing to use guys with guns (because that is what backs up any governmental power) to force you to take a vaccine against your will. Oh and for disclaimer, I will state again I am in favor of people getting the vaccine, especially if they are in an at risk category. I oppose mandates, I oppose the government's one track approach of vaccines for all, I oppose the concept that once everyone is vaccinated this will be over (it won't) and I oppose the use of vaccination rates as a measure of success against the virus. What is plan B if vaccines fail (which is a strong possibility) or if the Mandates still don't reach Biden's goals? If any recent history is evidenced, Biden doesn't have a Plan B.
I can see a lot of people that we could have persuaded to get the vaccine now saying "fuck you, I'll take a swab up my nose weekly rather than submit to you injecting anything into my body without my consent". This is likely not going to work the way all the authoritarian sycophants think it will.
Americans tend to be squishes on a lot of stuff, right up until you force it on them.
They can fuck right off with that too, but you’re absolutely right that most people will say “you can check me once a week, but I won’t let you stick me” just because they’re trying so hard to force this.
What’s also great is it is looking more and more like Sweden had the right approach all along.
"...If any recent history is evidenced, Biden doesn’t have a Plan B."
Depends on the meaning of "plan".
Pretty sure droolin's Joe's Plan B is simply if Plan A doesn't work, it's a fuck up and the PR department had better make Plan A look like other than a fuck up.
Plan B is Biden doubling down on Plan A and going off on anyone who dares to question it. And Plan B also involves Biden giving a speech and then walking off without questions, and if amazingly he does take questions, it will be from a pre-approved list (pretty sure Doocey is off that list now after he made the President look bad).
I remember when Trump just sent mean tweets about governors who disagreed with him.
Biden's next step will be to enact the draft to get young men who are not vaccinated into the military where they won't have a choice.
And I bet as part of that he will expand the draft to women as well, for the same reason.
Much like the Sacramento B, I would not be completely surprised if this tongue in cheek post came to fruition.
would you please stop giving them ideas?
The bottom line is you always have the *freedom* and *personal choice* to move to another country that’s more to your liking—or move off the grid entirely if you so desire.
No one is forcing you to be a part of this society. But by *choosing* to stay in this society (and benefiting enormously from doing so…even if you choose to ignore or downplay those benefits), you also agree to follow the rules and norms.
Not sure how that jives with personal freedom, so if society decided churches should be banished, those who want to practice religion should move to another country?
Let's play the abortion game: in Texas society has deemed abortion immoral and basically banned it, so those who disagree should move from Texas right? It isn't like Biden is suing Texas right now for violating people's bodily autonomy, while at the same time violating everyone else's.
Oh wait he is you say. Well that can't be because Jim assures me that if you disagree with what a society decides you should just move. Why would Biden be suing then?
It's dumb when right wing people say America love it or leave it, it is even dumber when authoritarian assholes say love it or leave it, and by showing you love it, we mean submit and give up your body autonomy and personal choice.
No, you do not have the freedom to leave this country since nobody has a right to move to a country they are not a citizen of, and other nations actually enforce their immigration laws.
The US was supposed to work like that at the state level, but authoritarian a$$holes like Obama and Biden are destroying that arrangement.
How much do you want to bet people like Jim also support Australia forcing people do put a face recognition app on their phone so the government can track were they are?
Wait, so when society said gays, blacks and women didn't deserve rights, they were CORRECT?
Wow... I gotta revise some historical assumptions now.
“No one is forcing you to be a part of this society. But by *choosing* to stay in this society (and benefiting enormously from doing so…even if you choose to ignore or downplay those benefits), you also agree to follow the rules and norms.”
Now do systemic racism.
"The bottom line is you always have the *freedom* and *personal choice* to move to another country that’s more to your liking—or move off the grid entirely if you so desire..."
Fuck off and die, slaver.
Fuck off, racist trash.
The bottom line is you always have the *freedom* and *personal choice* to move to another country that’s more to your liking—or move off the grid entirely if you so desire.
DOHOHOHO
AHAHAHAHA
Did you miss the part where they are going to start prohibiting the unvaccinated from traveling? You are telling the frog he's welcome to leave while pressing down the lid as hard as you can.
"you also agree to !!!!!!!!-follow the rules-!!!!!!!!"
- No one gives a F about 'norms' but shallow followers / blind sheep.
Oh; Most substantially the !!!!!!!!-U.S. Constitution-!!!!!!!!, the SUPREME LAW? The People's Law over their Government??
Someone needs put this to Biden in full effect and most likely every Democrat and their Nazi-Regime and supporters.
You're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!!!!
But; What you said and what you thought you mean might be different.
You may fool yourself, but you aren’t fooling us: neither Amash nor you are libertarians, Nick.
Perhaps if Mr. Biden were my physician (by MY choice!), he'd have the right to tell me to get my Covid-19 shots, but he isn't, for which I'm thankful, and my (real) physician didn't need to remind me to get my shots; I got them as soon as I could. My choice. If only Mr. Biden were able to understand the distinction and the reasons for it!
this is a very informative topic Download Free Whatsapp Video Status
Constitutional crisis.
Impeach.
Excellent Article!
I too have received the jab because I as an individual believe that it was in my best interest to get the jab. I however do not believe that my reasons to get the jab must apply to other individuals or that other individuals must comply.
The notion of a vaccine mandate is a loss of my freedom even though I personally decided to get this particular jab. Nick is very correct that are President have been becoming more and more authoritarian.
The problem is that once a emergency has been declared the emergency rarely ever ends. The emergency is more likely to be normalized and the loss of freedom made permanent.
The saying to "Never waste an emergency" seems to go along with "Always make sure there is an emergency to exploit". We are living through a decline of personal liberty where the western societies we believed were free are becoming less free and our politicians are becoming increasingly more and more authoritarian.
The world has authoritarians and libertarians, but there are many more authoritarians in power. The authoritarians are comprised of multiple political parties and may have different agendas, but have in common their desire to force compliance to their world view.
The alternative being libertarians is based around individual freedom. While a pure libertarian society is unlikely to be achieved during my lifetime, the goal should be to more towards more individual freedom rather than the current direction.
Uomo, it may be nice to have unified theory of good and bad, for you freedom/not freedom, but life and existence is not that simple, and you must apply your preferences where they make sense and don't. No, no politician is going to want to run on permanent masks and lockdowns for obvious reasons, so your fears are misplaced, and like all rights, your freedom doesn't include despoiling the nest we all live in with foul and toxic excretions. The legal principle for requiring vaccines for certain groups and for certain behaviors is long established and follows this principle. Why don't you find another hill to defend - I don't know, public nudity?
So when does it end? Because eliminating the virus isn't a real possibility. Stop throwing out stupid catch phrases like herd immunity, because it's obvious you don't know what that actually means. Or what it would entail.
soldeirmedic,
Unfortunately, anti-vaxxers and their enablers like you have closed off whatever chance we had for herd immunity in the US, are clogging up our ICU's, and caused outbreaks in the red states that are as bad as any we have previously faced, and that has closed off much freedom of movement and again negatively impacted economic activity for no other reason than BS concerns about these snowflakes "freedom" to be toxic. Congratulations!
To answer your question, the best we are looking at is an endemic of more restricted impact than current conditions and the worse? Het, how many human hosts do you want to keep unprotected?
"Unfortunately, anti-vaxxers and their enablers like you have closed off whatever chance we had for herd immunity in the US, are clogging up our ICU’s..."
Bullshit.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
I’ll give Joe credit, I thought he was just a drive by idiot, but it looks like he’s got the stamina to go the distance and be just as much a lying authoritarian troll as Tony or shrike.
I got five on it being WK's newest sock
We never had a shot at herd immunity. It can only be achieved in a closed system without outside influx of pathogens. Anyone who screams herd immunity doesn't understand the term.
Yes an endemic, which means we will have new variants every year, and those new variants will most probably require new vaccines. Do you know what an endemic is dipshit?
I know what an endemic is jerkoff, and herd immunity was a possible if not necessarily likely goal early on, which is one of the many reasons the CDC, WHO, and virtually all experts in the medical and scientific community advocated for vaccinations and still do. You've done your part to end that hope and now seemingly want congratulations.
How have I done my part? And herd immunity was never possible once it became clear how fast the virus mutates how many animal hosts it has and the percentage of people who can't be vaccinated.
And know I don't think you know what endemic means. You might know the definition but I doubt you understand what the implications of that are.
You just keep regurgitating empty slogans.
How have I not done my part?
No, you just proved down below you don't know what endemic means.
"soldeir apparently doesn’t know that endemic can also mean of limited impact and not needing vaccinations."
None of this is true. We'll take a less deadly endemic pathogen. Influenza. High morbidity, low mortality but still tens of thousands each year, billions of dollars lost every year to influenza. Seems impactful to me.
Needs a vaccine. Yes, it does, everyone is recommended the flu vaccine that can take it.
So not one fucking word of your sentence I just quoted was correct.
So no you don't know what endemic means.
We could take another more powerful endemic, while we have eliminated it in the US (not by vaccinations but by eliminating the host carrier) is endemic to North America, yellow fever. High morbidity, yes, especially in the unvaccinated. High mortality, depends on age group, the young rarely die from it. Requires a vaccine. Yes it does. If you are traveling to the east coast of Mexico and Central America during fever season or the Caribbean during fever season you have to get a vaccine.
The best model for how a COVID endemic would play out is influenza. The both are single strand RNA viruses. Which means both mutate quickly. The both have high morbidity and low mortality. Both mortality tends to be highest in the elderly. Both are zoological with a wide range of animal hosts (so far COVID unlike influenza has not been identified in avians only in mammalians).
The only way it would have been possible if you morons hadn’t screeched about xenophobia and racism when people said we had to shut down all of our international travel and secure our borders. Neither of which are in any way practical.
In short, you are an idiot.
Oh BTW I listed above all the criteria required for herd immunity to be practical. Hint, vaccines are only one part of the equation and not even the most important part. Having a closed population is the most important part. So, should we shut down our borders?
soldier, as a matter of enlightened self interest we should be - and to some degree are - providing vaccines for nations not able to afford them. We have already shut down our borders.
As you have noted, other animals may transmit the virus to us - and us to them - but that is a much less likely point of transmission for almost all of us.
No it isn't. Where do every new variant of coronavirus that causes the common cold come from every year. And we haven't closed our borders we have the largest number of people coming across the border than at any point in two decades. We just flew in tens of thousands of refugees from another country.
How many housecats are there in the US? How many are allowed outside and interact with other cats? Domestic cats are a host reservoir, and we aren't certain if they can or can't transfer it to humans (and if they can't right now it will likely mutate to were it can).
You obviously don't know where every variety of flu comes from every year, or where every variety of common cold (also coronaviruses) comes from every year. Hell, we don't even know where this virus originated but the even money is on from animals. And just because you don't live with animals doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. If it follows most other zoological pathogens (which it seems to do) the yearly outbreak will come from a population that lives in close proximity to animals and then it will spread world wide. Ignoring animal hosts is cosmopolitan stupidity. BTW there are a fuck ton of feral cats and whitetail deer living in any of our major urban areas and people come in contact with them all the time.
I assume I’m still encouraged to participate in BLM riots despite any COVID precautions or lack thereof, correct?
America should keep an eye on Australia to see the direction progressive government wants to take us.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-australia-nsw-health-limits-alcohol-for-residents-of-locked-down-tower-block/QEOAVR3IWOHP3MKAYMCJZU3O5A/
Residents in apartment blocks locked-down by NSW Health are having their alcohol deliveries policed as part of a policy to limit the number of drinks being consumed each day.
NSW Health has imposed rules limiting people in "NSW Health controlled buildings" to a certain amount of alcohol each day in a bid to "ensure the safety of health staff and residents".
Residents of the social housing estate have complained that care packages sent by friends and relatives have been searched before they are delivered.
Residents are allowed to receive a ration of one of the following: six beers or pre-mixed drinks, one bottle of wine, or one 375ml bottle of spirits.
Excess alcohol is being confiscated until lockdown rules are lifted.
---------------
Remember, they confiscated a lot of Australian guns first, then started down this sort of path with COVID lockdowns, curfews, and now confiscation of "care packages".
Writing in The Atlantic, Conor Friedersdorf argued “Australia traded away too much liberty.”
Australia is undoubtedly a democracy, with multiple political parties, regular elections, and the peaceful transfer of power. But if a country indefinitely forbids its own citizens from leaving its borders, strands tens of thousands of its citizens abroad, puts strict rules on intrastate travel, prohibits citizens from leaving home without an excuse from an official government list, mandates masks even when people are outdoors and socially distanced, deploys the military to enforce those rules, bans protest, and arrests and fines dissenters, is that country still a liberal democracy?
Pretty obviously it’s become a democratic authoritarian regime.
Townhall.com:
"Australia has become a penal colony again. To combat COVID, the nation is literally a police state. No one can leave—literally. You cannot enter the country. You cannot leave the country. You cannot venture out of your own house; you might be arrested for incitement. There are apps that everyone must download which the government pings at random. Those selected have a limited time to take a picture of their location. Refusal to respond leads to the police being dispatched to your residents. This is the ‘COVID zero’ approach and it’s turned the nation into something akin to North Korea. Conor Friedersdorf of The Atlantic had a great piece asking if the nation is still a liberal democracy. They locked their people up. They’ve built concentration camps outside of Brisbane. And now the authorities are taking Australians’ alcohol. No, I’m not kidding. Booze confiscation is now in effect
Let's get one thing straight. It's not about freedom for MAGA nation either. They aren't really mad about Biden mandating vaccines what they are REALLY mad that it isn't THEIR guy(Trump) who is mandating the vaccines. I can guarantee 100% that if Trump were re-elected we would be facing very similiar vaccine mandates and there wouldn't be a peep from the Maga mob.
They are resisting the vaccine's now not because they believe in "Medical freedom" but because having too many people vaccinated might make Biden look good.
If they were for "Medical Freedom" they would have been pissed at Trump's "Real and Replace" approach to Obamacare which was basically Replacing the Obama lead Big Government controlled socialist health care plan with a Trump lead Big Government controlled socialist health care plan.
Trumpers were never opposed to heavy handed federal control as long as it's THEIR guy who was in control. As evident by the fact that trump flat out said that his power was absolute and that the government should take everyone's guns before due process. There would be endless screeching from the MAGA hats if Biden, Harris, Cortez, or Obama said those exact same things.
Also that Trump and his Florida puppet governor both tried to force Social Media companies to host his propaganda on their websites which is in CLEAR violation of the 1st amendment guarantees of Free Speech and Free Press.
MAGA nation is perfectly okay with Tyranny as long as it's THEIR tyrant. After all these are the people who criticized Obama for saluting with a latte in his hand but didn't criticize Trump for saluting the general of the most tyrannical nation in the history of the world.
Since this is a libertarian magazine, what makes you think your rants about Trump supporters are at all pertinent? The majority of us voted for Jo Jorgenson or didn't vote at all.
Because There are still hordes of trump supporters on this site that constantly defended even the most egregious hypocrisy from the former president.
Your examples of hypocrisy are based upon assumptions as the fact is no one can know what Trump would have done, since he didn't get a second term. It is hypocrisy to make assumptions based upon events that didn't happen and then label others hypocrites.
What's the difference?
Really? Are you that sophomoric and simple you don't understand the difference between voting for a libertarian and voting for Trump? Or are you one of those simplistic people who believes in false dichotomies?
Hurr durr libertarians are just republicans who like weed and butt sex durr.
As to your salute analogy it's an apple and orange comparison.
A better would have been Obama bowing to leaders of despotic nations and Trump saluting a dictator.
"A better would have been Obama bowing to leaders of despotic nations and Trump saluting a dictator."
Okay, I can agree with that.
And both could be seen as simple diplomacy and I did see several Trump supporters who spoke out against both actions. If you didn't you are willfully blind. In fact I don't know a single Trump supporter (and I live in Trump country) that didn't often disagree with him. Now what I did see, and see a lot on here is people attacking Trump for anything he did, and attacking his supporters without provocation, and his supporters defending him even if they didn't agree with him to start with, because that is how humans work. When they are personally attacked they will fight back even if they know the other person is right. It is human nature and nothing to do with or unique to Trump supporters. Much like you just did. You didn't criticize Trump or any actions you attacked his supporters personally for being his supporters and then demonizes them and based completely upon a hypothetical. You also generalized about his supporters. This is not the actions of an enlightened individual being intellectually honest it is othering people who you don't agree with.
"I can guarantee 100% that if Trump were re-elected we would be facing very similiar vaccine mandates and there wouldn’t be a peep from the Maga mob."
UR full of sh*t... Trump had the white house when COVID came; He left mandating to the States. He did F-Up on the 87% Democratic written CARES Act ( --- And many Trump fans will say as much; despite your 'gangster' mentality projection -- ). It wasn't even that long ago Trump suggested everyone get vaccinated and his base turned on him.
What you 'see' is an exact reflection of how you think in this comment. UR Projecting.
Hey, look at this guy another person who believes that there were only two choices last election and anyone who didn't vote for his guy had to have voted for the other icky guy. And he spends six paragraphs arguing his straw man argument.
The only strawman argument here is from you. I never said people who voted for one candidate had to have supported the other. In fact the entire point of my post was the entire opposite of what you are asserting.
Actually, it wasn't. You made the assumption that only Trump supporters opposed vaccines and that only Trump supporters opposed mandates. Or people excusing Trump supporters. But opposing mandates that impact body autonomy is a long cherished libertarian stance. That is why so many libertarians support abortion while finding it immoral. That is why so many libertarians support vaccinations while opposing mandates. And also why so many libertarians also know we can't vaccinate our way out of this pandemic.
My Post was clearly targeted at Trump Supporters whining about Biden's vaccine mandate while supporting Trump's equally oppressive policies. I was not talking about Libertarians who dislike both Trump and Biden and their respective parties.
I never said Trump Supporters were the only ones opposed to the vaccine, I only said they are being the biggest hypocrites about it, because they didn't have a problem with the vaccine when trump was in office and even mocked the equally hypocritical Biden and Harris for being Anti-Vaxxers when they were skeptical of Trump's handling of the vaccine. But now they are clearly opposed to it only because if too many get vaccinated it might make Biden look good.
I have no qualms against people who legitimately have concerns about the vaccine or any mandates and who would be opposed to it or any mandates regardless who was president.
See below.
Are you able to see into alternative universes (if they exist which science is divided on) and thus you have unique knowledge to state Trump would have enacted mandates and that his supporters would not have protested or resisted mandates? If not, than you are full of shit. You have no way of proving their resistance is based entirely on who is president.
“….the biggest hypocrites about it.”
Haha. 10 months ago all prominent dems said they wouldn’t trust the vax that they now want to mandate.
You’re a fucking moron.
^Best burn yet..... He's a black pot calling the grey kettle black 🙂
And since the article didn't defend Trump and we have no way of knowing how Trump would react or what mandates he would or wouldn't have implemented it was an asinine, unnecessary statement. Even if you were aiming it at Trump supporters, because the basic premise is untestable and relies totally on evidence not in existence. Basically, it was posted solely for you to post a whataboutism based upon a hypothetical situation that isn't testable.
Also, most the MAGA crowd on here readily admits Trump did things they disagree with. There are a few, and very few at that, that defend everything he did. But the majority did criticize his bump stock ban (in fact the biggest criticism of it at the time came from his supporters and base). They almost all say he wasn't perfect but was better than the alternatives. So your portrayal of Trump supporters isn't even accurate. But it is a common talking point of those who like to demonize anyone who supported Trump. It is a common refrain of talking heads on CNN and MSNBC. And of and since the article didn't mention Trump it wasn't even necessary to make a stand alone comment about Trump.
In fact, the fact that you felt it necessary to attack Trump supporters says more about your own tribalism than theirs.
Trumpers supported violently overthrowing the US constitution, where you people believe your precious rights come from, so let’s agree that Trumpers don’t want freedom.
And of course you don’t want freedom for anyone but yourself, though I don’t know why the most basic assertion of pure naked selfishness needs so many paragraphs.
You’ve lost the thread dude. It used to be assumed by everyone that maximum individual freedom inherently meant se measure of personal responsibility to make it something other than an anarchic hellscape. You’ve reduced yourself to arguing for getting what you want and having no responsibility. It’s actually insane.
Some Trumpers, not all, supported protesting against certification (which is in the Constitution, free speech that is) some rioted but there is no evidence that they had any intent to perform violence to stop certification. And there is no evidence that there intent was to overthrow the Constitution. The Constitution requires the House to certify the electoral college. But they also have the option of not certifying it. That has never happened, except once they did decide not to seat one set of electors and seated a different set of electors, thus deciding who won the presidency. That is also allowed in the Constitution.
"And there is no evidence that there intent was to overthrow the Constitution."
They were literally caught on tape chanting "Hang Mike Pence" because he refused to refuse to certify the election, something he had no constitutional authority to do so.
Hang mike pence is protected speech isn't it?
Not to fucking leftist like Tony and Guy.
Now, Hang Trump on the other hand….
Depends on whether you think something called the secret service poking its nose around your person and effects counts as freedom.
They can't charge you with a crime unless they can prove intent. Otherwise it's protected speech. God you're an idiot Tony.
Haha. Yeah, you guys are afraid of a lot of silly shit. Bunch of neurotic pussies.
... but ... but; Being a 'neurotic pussy' in the Nazi-Regime gets *free* theft from those people......
It was a hypothetical based on a clear trend. Just Like you can trust Lawyers and Politicians to lie and North Koreans to throw dissidents in concentrations camps you can trust Trump Supporters to support trumping doing what he and his supporters lambasted his opposition for doing. Even if trump didn't issue a Mandate if re-elected, you can bet most if not all of his supporters would cheer him for it if he did. If they have no problem raiding
the capitol trying to overturn the constitution for him, then they would have no problem supporting a hypocritical Vaccine mandate.
And that is the extent of me "Attacking" trump supporters. it was merely pointing out the fact that He was doing exactly what he trashed Obama/Biden/Clinton/Cruz etc of doing.
I too live in Trump country and have yet seen one of his supporters who didn't go along with everything he wanted and said even if it flew right in the face of everything he said or did before. For example. I had to watch my own parents try and reasonably explain how Bill Clinton's renown Sexual Deviancy was bad but Trump's was not. And the only thing they could give me was that Clinton committed adultery in the white house and that somehow made it worse. And that's just ONE example I can give.
Also, Trump was treated with kid gloves compared to nearly every politician in history. Especially considering how vicious and cruel he treated nearly everyone of his political opponents compared to most other other politicians. For Mr. "F*** your feelings" he did throw a monstrous hissy fit when his opponents lobbed the sofest of softball criticism his way compared to the rocks he was hurling first. Politics are notoriously cut-throat but trump took it to a whole new level.
He was treated with kid gloves, really? What universe was that in? The media excoriated trump in this universe. None of your analysis is correct. And based upon what appears to be a deep hatred of Trump and his supporters. Okay that is all we needed to know. Not rationale but enlightening.
"My Post was clearly targeted at Trump Supporters whining about Biden’s vaccine mandate while supporting Trump’s equally oppressive policies..."
My post is clearly aimed at TDS-addled asshole lying about Trump, TDS-addled asshole
No one needs to lie about your orange god he lies about himself plenty already.
Sevo voted for Jo Jorgenson he has stated that multiple times.
Where did all these drive by commentators come from? I don't recognize a good portion of the handles. Did Vox link to this article and bring a fresh crop of their talking point sycophants here to make the same tired, stake and repetitive catch phrase arguments that lack any nuance or understanding of the drivel they are saying?
If I see Joe mention herd immunity one more time, when it is quite clear he doesn't understand the term, I may puke a little in my mouth. It is clear it is a word he read somewhere and now he thinks he sounds educated when he uses it.
He even admits the virus will become endemic. But doesn't take that to it's logical conclusion, that if it is endemic it will mutate and likely require new vaccines every mutation. He ignores when questioned about will we be mandated every time a new variant arises, will we have to play pandemic porn every time a new variant arises? He is only focused on human hosts while admitting that there are animal hosts, and doesn't seem to realize almost all new variants of endemic viruses we get every year, come from animal hosts. Influenza? Check new variants come from animal hosts every year. Common cold caused by other coronaviruses? Check come from animal hosts each year. I could go on but it isn't necessary, because rather we inoculate 100% (which isn't even possible) or even 80% of the population, we may have protection from the variants circulating today, but the likelihood we will not have protection for the next variants goes to as close to 100% as to be assured. And at 20% unvaccinated that leaves 1.4 billion human hosts for the virus to circulate through (that is assuming we continue with forcing people who have had the virus to get vaccinated which defies all practices until this date).
soldeir apparently doesn't know that endemic can also mean of limited impact and not needing vaccinations. Of course if it is of similar or worse impact as the Delta variant - which by the way we are largely protected from by vaccines - than damn, we might have to have new vaccines developed which would prove ..... what? That we might as well give up and just check into the ICU with the people who listen to soldier?
Endemic does not mean of limited impact. Several diseases that are endemic are actually far deadlier than COVID. Malaria is endemic to every continent but Antarctica. Yellow fever is endemic to every continent but Antarctica. Smallpox was until it was eradicated over two centuries. Cholera is endemic to every continent. Dysentery. Measles. HIV.
endemic
adj. Prevalent in or limited to a particular locality, region, or people.
adj. Native to or limited to a certain region.
adj. Common in or inherent to an enterprise or situation.
Nothing in there about it being of limited impact.
Influenza is endemic and causes vast morbidity and mortality every year, the impact economically of influenza in the US alone is billions of dollars every year. Where the fuck did you get the idea that endemic means less impact?
See I said you don't understand what you are talking about.
soldier, I did not say endemic means of limited impact, nor is "limited impact" a precise term, but a relative one, nor did I predict whether the Covid virus will be of limited, similar, or greater impact than it's present variations.
Joe Friday
September.11.2021 at 4:58 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
soldeir apparently doesn’t know that endemic can also mean of limited impact
Huh, that’s weird…
Huh that is funny because I can't find any single definition when I googled endemic that mentions lower impact at all. Care to cite?
I think you might mean lower frequency. And I can only find one source that states that. Most rely on persistence in the environment.
https://www.dictionary.com/e/epidemic-vs-pandemic/
Here is another good resource that describes the difference between epidemic, pandemic and endemic. Note in this one again the definition is entirely due to how persistent a pathogen is in the environment.
The one example that used lower frequency was a website called rxlist.com a subsidiary of WebMD which is not considered a reputable website by most scientist, healthcare workers or physicians. It is the Wikipedia of the medical world. Interestingly enough Wikipedia also uses the persistence definition and baseline transmission definition.
https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/lesson1/section11.html
Here is another reference that describes endemic, this one is from the CDC. It also doesn't use the term low impact or low frequency.
Since the only one who uses that terminology is WebMD is that where you got it from?
Your quote:soldeir apparently doesn’t know that endemic can also mean of limited impact and not needing vaccinations.
I can find no reference to this definition. Can you cite your sources? Because it disagrees with the CDC definition.
A epidemic or pandemic can become a endemic. And if disease rates rise above baseline it becomes an outbreak or epidemic. Influenza is an endemic disease, but each new outbreak becomes usually a pandemic.
Asshole slaver seems to think someone here is intersted in his bullshit.
Sitting here watching the US open women's final in deep blue NYC. I can flip to many stations and watch college football. All with packed unmasked stadiums. I think it's time for you leftist/progressive's to progress onto your next unfounded bitch session. Seems many already have and your just embarrassing yourselves now
If you hadn't noticed Biden's MO is you will comply and if you don't I will force you too. He is sicking the DoJ on Florida and other states that have banned mask mandates and he is sicking OSHA on anyone who isn't vaccinated. We've moved on, but he will force us not to move on.
Florida residents need the DOJ to get DeSantis off their backs. His presidential campaign stunt has backfired and 65% of Floridians want mask mandates in schools.
DeSantis isn't stopping anyone from masks, he just isn't forcing anyone to wear them.
soldier doesn't realize that masks are more effective at protecting others than it is the one who wears it, and therefore their effective usage requires as many as possible - hopefully all - to wear them, or if not, to stay the f... home.
Asshole slaver has yet ot realize he's full of shit and few of us here are interested in lcking boot.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
Show me the science that states that. Because the science I have reviewed is mixed at best.
How is telling people "you have a choice" being on their back?
This may be difficult for you soldier, but a 10 year old should be able to grasp it.
Effective protection from Covid requires others to wear them, as transmission is best restricted at the point of exhaling, not inhaling. Get it? If not, think about it for a few minutes.
OK, back?
Since the idiot - check that, completely cynical politician DeSantis -is interfering with local school boards requiring masks, he is making mask policy less effective at Florida public schools and causing parents to send their kids to schools considerably less safe than they could be by fairly simple measures.
Any other questions?
It is so simple a 10 yo can get it because it is requires only the scientific ability of a 10 yo to spout nonsense like that. The evidence on masks is inconclusive at best. And if it helps by all means wear your masks. But Europe doesn't requires masks in school. Why is that? Surely England and France aren't anti-science? Also, the CDC was going to rule that masks were not required or recommended for schools but changed the recommendation not because of science but because of pressure from the teachers union. There is no science to support masking in schools. The CDC even concluded that before they changed the recommendation due to pressure from the teachers unions.
England, France etc looked at the science and decided masks weren't required for their schools. The ESA agrees with them.
Soldier has already been schooled on the various studies that prove the effectiveness of masks in slowing the spreading of masks but persist in lying that they haven't I suggest anyone who wonders about it Google the subject.
Note soldier avoids the subject he was just schooled on, which is how mask wearers primarily protect others - each other is a good way to look at it - which of course makes his earlier challenge to the practice on this thread ridiculous.
I wasn't schooled on anything. You didn't link to any studies. And I never stated there aren't studies that supports masking. And I do not use Google to look up science I use what real scientist use, pubmed. You ignore all the studies that dispute the usefulness of masks.
Whatever you are doing soldier, it's not working for you. Try dropping the Libertarian filter and read the science straight.
Joe only reads the science he agrees with so he assumes everyone else does as well. How many peer reviewed studies have you read on the subject?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33047556/
This is literally the first peer reviewed study on the effectiveness of masks, this is a review study which means they looked at multiple other studies to come to a conclusion. Since pubmed lists chronologically, this is the latest research on the subject.
And I will quote the abstract here:
The coronavirus disease (COVID-19) spread rapidly around the world. Two types of approaches have been applied to use of face masks as a tool to prevent the spread this disease in society. The aim of the systematic review was to assess the effectiveness of face masks against the novel coronavirus. A literature search was performed using different databases until April 30, 2020. Search terms were ‘facemasks’, ‘novel coronavirus’, and ‘healthcare workers’. Five studies were included in the systematic review. A study stated that no difference between surgical and cotton masks. Also, two studies have emphasized the use of surgical masks or N95 respirators by medical staff, and two other studies emphasized the use of any type of face mask by general public. More studies in controlled contexts and studies of infections in healthcare and community places are needed for better definition of the effectiveness of face masks in preventing coronavirus.
In other words, they need more research. BTW, pubmed is operated by the National Institute of Health and is considered the gold standard for reviewing punished material because it weeds out journals with poor reputations.
You haven't yet schooled anyone except for how to be stupid.
You haven’t schooled anybody.
"This may be difficult for you soldier, but a 10 year old should be able to grasp it..."
IOWs, it's a 10YO's argument and entirely apporpriate to slavers like you.
Fuck off and die.
Literally Biden is suing DeSantis because he won't force people to wear a mask. He is literally voting to force people to wear a mask.
In 1861 65% or more if Floridians supported slavery. The majority isn't always right on liberty.
Exactly. Gunney, you are crushing it
Army, not a Marine. Never did find crayons and windshields very appealing to eat or lick.
DeSantis is not required to force anyone to mask students. He is required to stop school boards from acting in the best interests and safety of their students. He has a majority of Florida against his cynical power grab aimed not at Florida, but national donors for 2024.
"...He is required to stop school boards from acting in the best interests and safety of their students..."
You're full of shit.
Fuck off and die, slaver
If it is the best interest why did the CDC I initially rule masks weren't recommended for school age kids, and only reverses themselves when the teachers unions pressured them too, and no new science was sited as to why they changed their recommendations? Explain why the ESA says masks aren't recommended for school age children? Answer why England and France don't require masks, are they less interested in what is in the best interest of the kids?
soldier is unable to explain away the obvious reason why and how masks minimize exposure and throws up a smoke screen of since abandoned CDC ruling while ignoring their current one and ignoring the numerous studies documenting the obvious benefit. Maybe he should move to France.
Joe ignores all the studies that dispute his point. I never said there aren't studies that say masks work. I said the science was mixed. That means some do and some don't find any benefit to masking.
The science is mixed in the sense that the consensus on Covid vaccines and masks are get them both, while soldier hangs on to the outliers as an excuse for his Libertarian beliefs. That is what drives his viewpoint, not science.
You make that assertion but you are still wrong. The science on vaccines does suggest you take them. On masks, it is inconclusive. Just out of curiosity how many peer reviewed studies on the subject have you actually read?
The newest peer reviewed data according to the national institute of health a journal database, pub med, here is the abstract.
The coronavirus disease (COVID-19) spread rapidly around the world. Two types of approaches have been applied to use of face masks as a tool to prevent the spread this disease in society. The aim of the systematic review was to assess the effectiveness of face masks against the novel coronavirus. A literature search was performed using different databases until April 30, 2020. Search terms were ‘facemasks’, ‘novel coronavirus’, and ‘healthcare workers’. Five studies were included in the systematic review. A study stated that no difference between surgical and cotton masks. Also, two studies have emphasized the use of surgical masks or N95 respirators by medical staff, and two other studies emphasized the use of any type of face mask by general public. More studies in controlled contexts and studies of infections in healthcare and community places are needed for better definition of the effectiveness of face masks in preventing coronavirus.
To summarize the researchers found one study that showed no benefits, two studies that said only certain surgical masks and N-95 masks were beneficial and only in a medical environment. And two studies found benefit from masks. The researchers conclusion was that more research is needed in a controlled environment. So exactly as I stated the research is mixed. There is no clear science that shows a benefit to masking, especially kids.
Now who schooled who again, and who doesn't understand science again?
soldeirmedic's "research":
" A literature search was performed using different databases until April 30, 2020..."
And the majority of school boards in Florida at one time supported segregation. So your reference to the majority of the school boards is asinine.
soldier, various governors of Florida at one time supported segregation. So what? You understand your supposed point is completely illogical, right?
No, it isn't. You state because the majority of school boards support something that makes it their right to enforce it. Add logic to things you don't understand.
Soldier, a majority of Florida school boards do not support masks, though those representing a majority of students do. What makes it their right to enforce it is THE SAFETY OF THEIR STUDENTS IS THEIR MFING JOB!
Only if the science supported masking. Which it doesn't not for kids. That is the finding of the European Science Agencies and the World Health Organization. And about half of the peer reviewed research on it.
Actually the mother fucking job of school boards is to provide education.
God damn Joe, just take the L and walk away. Soldier has fucking owned you up and down this entire thread.
"...THE SAFETY OF THEIR STUDENTS IS THEIR MFING JOB!"
Oh.
Em.
Gee!
"For the chillens!!!!!"
Haven't read that in at least a week or so; the last resort of fucking steaming piles of lefty shit.
And at one time the majority of school boards allowed teachers to spank the kids.
soldier, can you ask your compatriot Sevo to take his meds? Thanks.
Sevo and I disagree a lot. But if anyone needs to take their meds it is you.
Soldier, your analysis of human behavior is as bad as your "science".
LOL, this from the person who keeps misusing herd immunity, doesn't understand what endemic means (he thinks endemic means you don't need a vaccine, stop it my side hurts). And hasn't yet cited a single peer reviewed study.
And if I don't understand how science works, how is it I have multiple peer reviewed science articles published? And am a fucking science professor at a University?
Lefty shit, your bullshit is as bad as your strawmen.
It literally took me one minute of literature review to find the latest research on masking which literally said exactly what I have been saying. Since it was a review, it looks at the available research, and draws a conclusion based upon all the available science. It literally said the same fucking thing I've been telling you. Remind me again who is bad about science?
"It literally took me one minute of literature review to find the latest research on masking which literally said exactly what I have been saying..."
The boot-lickers we're dealing with here do NOT DO research. The read what some supposed 'expert' posts on Vox of some such and repeat it.
Or, they missed that Fauci finally admitted to lying and haven't changed their tune to match the new "line".
This is not a matter of fact or science to these folks; the narrative controls all.
Oh, no Sevo openly asmits to being an asshole on purpose to authoritarian assholes who don't use facts or science to back up their arguments and rely on appeals to (selective) authorities.
I didn't misjudge Sevo, he calls bullshit. Me instead I like to use logic and science to prove asshole like you don't know what you're talking about. I exert more energy than he does. We have different approaches to dealing with bullshit.
Sevo is quite capable of entering into a meaningful debate, but only if the other person is being honest. Me, I get my jollies off of watching people like you make unsubstantiated talking points and then slamming you with the actual facts. I am under no illusion this will change your partisan narrow mindedness, but it demonstrates to everyone else how naive and narrow minded you are.
I like bashing scientism with actual science. It's a hobby of mine.
"...Me instead I like to use logic and science to prove asshole like you don’t know what you’re talking about. I exert more energy than he does. We have different approaches to dealing with bullshit."
Spreading bullshit requires slavers to expend more energy, but it still leaves them boot-licking slavers.
Fuck off and die.
I know. It sucks. Maybe it's because I'm old, 65, but we get a new chance every 4 years and name me one president that wouldn't, in an unguarded moment, bitch about a legislative or judicial branch that hadn't slowed or stopped him from getting everything he or his party wanted. I watched the 60-70's and it got better. I think it will again. Hope so at least
I wonder what libertarians say about speed limits? After all, ONLY 37k people die from car accidents per year, while nearly 20x died from COVID over the past 1.5 years.
So by libertarian logic, it's okay to abolish speed limits because they're a mandate, just like vaccines, and after all, COVID deaths are an order of magnitude greater than car accidents.
Check mate.
Already addressed upthread asshole. Not check mate. If we based speed limits on risk alone, the speed limit would be zero to eliminate all risk. Each MPH you go faster than zero your risk increases significantly. Speed limit of 55 is less risky than speed limit of 60. Most states the speed limit on highways exceeds 60.
Also roadways are paid for by the public. So it is within the realm of the government to set limits.
Additionally only idiots compare traffic fatalities to a zoological, fast mutating, high morbidity, low mortality virus. It is a sophomoric comparison and hardly check mate. As for the Libertarian stance on speed limits, they would point to the fact that most people that drive the Autobahn drive at speeds the are comfortable with, therefore they assess their risk factor based upon their driving ability and comfort. Despite the Autobahn not having a speed limit, traffic fatalities per 100,000 is lower in Germany than in the US. This is probably because less people drive in Germany. But it doesn't argue speed limits save lives. What it does argue is the best way to reduce traffic fatalities is to not drive.
What are you agitating for again? The right to cough deadly virus on other people? To have absolutely no change to the lifestyle you were accustomed to, not even to the level of temporary preventative hygiene measures, not one ounce of responsibility on your part whatsoever, even if it costs untold death and misery in millions of other people? Was that it?
No, I am advocating for body autonomy.
Meh. A bit of an abstract principle when we’re talking about an immediate cries facing all of humanity. You are not actually bodily autonomous, you know. You eat what food is available, and those chemicals literally become you. You breathe air and whatever pollutants it contains.
And you swap air and fluids with the people around you, and those things can contain pathogens.
We ask people to wash their hands before handling our food. We make regulations about it.
I am not impressed by your deep desire to be a germ vector. It’s not a right I have any reason to respect.
I eat what food I buy or raise myself. And everyone is a germ factory, you literally have more microbes living on your body and body cells. And every breath you take is full of possible pathogens. Most of them don't become dangerous because of a variety of mechanisms in your body. You can't escape from pathogens. All you can do is reduce your personal risk. Yes we regulate hand washing for employees, but how strongly is it enforced? And even if we didn't it is very likely most restaurants would require it because they don't want to get sued. And despite the fact that every year we have food poisoning cases linked to employees not washing their hands, people still assess the risk and go out to dinner. Thank you for making the libertarian case that every individual should assess their own risk of contracting a pathogen and lives their lives according to that.
soldier apparently doesn't realize that this battle of his was decided decades ago and fortunately he lost. We, and all our kids, were required to be vaccinated to enter public schools and most universities similarly have vaccine requirements as does the military.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
Actually, you don't have to have vaccines to get into the military they are given to you but are you comparing civilian world to voluntarily joining the military?
As for public schools they have mandates but you can sign a paper that says you refuse those vaccines and the state doesn't force you to get your kids vaccinated. Also you can home school. As for universities, again some do, some don't if you don't want to get vaccinated you go to a University that doesn't require vaccines. So no the battle was not decided long ago. And right up until COVID most universities also allowed you to sign a paper saying you object to vaccines and then they didn't require you to take them. Your analogy once again proves the opposite of what you intended because in every case except the military, you can opt out of vaccines in the instances you describe. The military is a bad analogy because you give up body autonomy as a condition of military service. You also give up the right to get piercings and tattoos (although that one isn't usually enforced) and can be prosecuted for getting a sunburn. Additionally the military has height weight standards and physical fitness standards you have to follow as well. So over all using the military as an analogy is just stupid.
soldier, the Covid unvaccinated can and should have the same option - stay home.
No, that isn't the only option. I notice you disregarded that with every other vaccine you could sign a piece of paper that stated you object to vaccines and the schools couldn't do anything about it. I notice you do that a lot, ignore evidence that doesn't fit your narrative.
This pile of lefty shit is no more honest than any of the others; it is about control and a childish desire for a risk-free life, so long as others bare the cost of it.
No, I actually think Joe believes he knows science, because he probably belongs to IFL and reddit science sub blogs. But I am betting he was a civics major.
Blah blah... excuses excuses... libertarianism is a tiger with no teeth.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
"I wonder what libertarians say about speed limits? After all, ONLY 37k people die from car accidents per year, while nearly 20x died from COVID over the past 1.5 years..."
I wonder why steaming piles of lefty shit tend to be 97-pound weaklings after dragging such heavy strawmen around.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
Blah blah... excuses excuses... insults... lie-bertarianism is a paper tiger.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
IF we were talking about a sterilizing vaccine and not a leaky vaccine you MAY have an argument. However, because this vaccine only reduces symptoms in the person who was vaccinated and does NOT prevent infection or transmission, there is absolutely no "protecting others" argument. In fact, it can be argued that the vaccine is actually counter-productive to the goal of preventing community spread, as it allows you to harbor and transmit the virus without symptoms, whereas if you were exhibiting symptoms you would likely stay home. Moreover, I have already had symptomatic covid and recovered, with an antibody test to prove it. My immunity is far superior to any vaccine induced immunity. There is simply no reason to advocate for 100% vaccination of the population. Unless, of course, you are trying to eliminate the control group...
Where are all of these fucking idiots coming from?
You didn’t checkmate shit. I HAVE NO FUCKING OBLIGATION TO PROTECT YOU FROM NATURE.
Now, fuck off, slaver.
Fact... libertarian talking points:
1) Fuck off slaver
2) Fuck off slaver
and
3) Fuck off slaver
Seriously, do you have anything else other than fuck off slaver in your arsenal or arguments?
That’s really all the response you deserve when you try to compare a natural pathogen with both human and animal reservoirs (that is being caught, carried, and she’d by vaccinated and unvaccinated alike) to automobile accidents.
Fuck off and DIE, slaver.
Happy, steaming pile of lefty shit?
“I want everything, and I want for it to cost me nothing.”
Libertarianism is for retarded children. The children who haven’t figured out how anything works yet.
Actually, that sounds more like progressives. Who wants "free" health care, college, housing etc? Oh that is right you progressives. Libertarians are more "if we want everything we have to pay for it ourselves".
Here is a hint on the pandemic. We want freedom and am willing to take on the risk to get protect that freedom. If that means getting the vaccine we will get the vaccine but we won't force anyone else to. Because that is their choice to take that risk. If you are afraid of that risk, you have the freedom to get vaccinated, wear a mask and stay at home. If you go out in public, you are assuming some risk of your own. You can mitigate that risk, and feel free to do so, as long as you don't try to force other people to your will.
Why pay? Don’t you have bodily autonomy? What authority dares stand between you and the Ming vase you want?
And using money printed by government? What tyranny is this?
I’m a bodily autonomous person and nobody gets to stand in the way of me doing whatever I want, and that includes not practicing basic hygiene, even if I plan to be around other people.
Paying men with guns to protect your Ming vase requires a whole network of people being incentivized to do things for the sake of the common good, practically totalitarian socialism compared to being asked to just shut the fuck up and vaccinate yourself.
You don't know what body autonomy means do you? It means the freedom to do whatever you want with your body. So if you want a tattoo, you pay for it yourself. If you want a vaccine, you pay for it (most of the time unless big daddy government paid for it and is now forcing you to take it, both of which libertarians oppose). If you don't want a vaccine you pay for that too by having an increased risk factor for developing the disease. Because paying for something doesn't necessarily involve legal currency.
I mean, it’s a nice theory. Like all ethical and legal principles, it probably has its limits. That’s before even considering the particulars, such as, off the top of my head:
Humans gestate inside other human bodies.
Humans bodies exchange pathogens.
Human bodies share vehicles, homes, and other spaces with other human bodies.
Humans must be restrained from time to time for public safety.
What if someone wants to shove a nuke up her snatch? A snuke, if you will? Does the snuke become incorporated with the body? Can authorities invade the body to retrieve the snuke?
It’s a pandemic. The environment is abnormal. You’d expect laws and principles to flex to handle it. Otherwise they’re shit laws and principles.
Also, government printed legal tender is not tyranny because you can always pay for things with gold, silver or by barter unless the other party won't accept those. It only becomes tyranny if the government forbids barter, or owning precious metals.
But when you are in bed dreaming of your wealth, you do not evaluate in it terms of gold bullion. You think about how many dollars you have.
Not only a currency printed by government, but manifested into imagination by the government. It’s not even real. It’s entire point is to be not real.
You can trade francs for goods if you want. Nobody’s going to stop you. But eventually you have to pay taxes and they have to be in dollars. So you’re pretty well incentivized to trade for dollars. There’s certainly coercion here, and it’s coercion over your very conception of wealth.
That is literally the most divorced from reality thing you have ever posted and that takes quite a bit of doing, considering how divorced from reality most of you posts are.
If this disease were called “airborne AIDS,” or if it were Ebola, I bet you’d expect other people to move heaven and earth to protect you from it.
Did that sound smart when you decided to type it? If it were called airborne AIDs I would say it is a stupid fucking name because first AIDs isn't the virus and second it acts nothing like HIV. Ebola is blood borne, so not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China. And both of those have far higher fatality rates than COVID so it also is a bad analogy. I mean that was just a stupid statement.
“And if they had a vaccine for those mythical pathogens, my stance would be I would take it and recommend everyone take it, but not force anyone to take it.”
Mythical? C’mon soldier medic you know it ain’t mythical. This is real time. This is not a myth. It is a very serious nasty pathogen.
Why do you refuse to fight it. I cannot force anyone to do anything. Morning rounds begin at 7:00am.
I was referring to his examples of airborne AIDs and Ebola as mythical. And how am I not fighting this pathogen? I am vaccinated I just believe in mandates. Also I have stated multiple times if you in an at risk category you should get vaccinated, which most of the at risk categories have.
As for nasty pathogen nastier than influenza but less than a lot of other pathogens we don't mandate vaccines for.
"...Why do you refuse to fight it..."
Why do you drag that strawman around? You first.
Ebola has a survival rate between 10 and 75 percent.
Covid has a survival rate between 85 and 99.6% (that low end is only for people over the age of 65).
So whether someone decides to be a disease vector should be determined by their careful assessment of the algebra.
Love me some freedom. They do teach math in libertopia, I hope.
Nobody decides to be a disease vector Tony. I mean, you do realize that the people that have gotten the vaccine are carrying it and shedding it, right? So they can be disease vectors too.
And yes, people’s calculus on exposure, risk, and vaccination would definitely be different if this was an actual “nasty pathogen”.
Far be it from me to stop Trumpers from committing mass suicide. I just want to be able to go to a concert without a mask.
And if they had a vaccine for those mythical pathogens, my stance would be I would take it and recommend everyone take it, but not force anyone to take it. The exact same stance that I have on COVID. Considering the lethality of those two diseases getting the vaccine if it existed would make more sense than for a disease that has a >99% survival rate.
Can we assume soldier that you would knowingly send your unvaccinated kids to schools possibly awash in these mythical pathogens?
Steaming pile of lefty shit is posting about places "AWASH"!!!!! in pathogens!!!
This is literally anywhere you go. Any microbiologist would tell you every place is awash in pathogens. You have more microbes living on you than cells in the human body.
We did culture and sensitivity swabs off of fifty students in my first year of microbiology. And literally every single culture grew out a bunch of microbes with staphylococcus aureus being the most prominent one and when we did sensitivity a large percentage of those were methicillin resistant staphylococcus aureus, or MRSA the so called flesh eating bacteria. Which is fairly common but only becomes a problem if your immune system is compromised.
If you are a germaphobe, don't ever take a microbiology course, you'll end up shooting yourself if you do (or getting over your germaphobia).
Next, Joe will tell us about how he avoids KEMIKULS!
Funnier yet he thinks endemic means less impactful and doesn't need a vaccine. I spit out my coffee I laughed so hard when I read that.
"Right now I am reading “Redcoat” by Bernard Cornwell, it looks at the fateful winter if 1777 from the view of a British soldier and from the view of a rebel soldier."
Non-fiction? Close to out of reading material.
No it's historical fiction but from an author well respected for his research. Think Jeff Shaara with more narrative and better battle scenes.
Learn to read soldier. I didn't say that about endemics, or anything close to it and my hypothetical about "mythical pathogens" was the hypothetical situation you were discussing. Cripes man, if you can't understand simple English you're really not worth the effort.
"Learn to read soldier..."
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Hey Joe, this was you:
Joe Friday
September.11.2021 at 4:58 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
soldeir apparently doesn’t know that endemic can also mean of limited impact
And yes I can be an asshole to. I love countering these scientism worshippers with the actual science. It's a hobby of mine. Just like I love arguing history. I like arguing history with you because you are actually knowledgeable on the subject. I like arguing history with people like trueman because he almost always ends up proving my point for me because he shifts the goal posts so much that eventually he shifts them to the point where he proves me right. Not that he would ever admit that.
Right now I am reading "Redcoat" by Bernard Cornwell, it looks at the fateful winter if 1777 from the view of a British soldier and from the view of a rebel soldier.
"...I like arguing history with people like trueman because he almost always ends up proving my point for me because he shifts the goal posts so much that eventually he shifts them to the point where he proves me right. Not that he would ever admit that."
trueman seems to have been told he was "clever", believed it and further assumed his "clever" bullshit would be confused with profundity". It isn't and he lacks awareness of that.
"Arms of Krupp" (Manchester) was a book which really kick-started an interest in reading history some 40+ years ago.
Let's start with what seems to be axiomatic:
Trade is the engine which best drives civilization, and does so by being both largely self-policing and driven by the profit motive. Trade depends on trust, and fails when that trust is violated.
Manchester really does not like Krupp and only part of that is Krupp's supplying arms to the various German governments; hard to fault that activity.
Employing slave labor? OK, Krupp, off to the prison and properly so.
But Manchester, despite his evident dislike for trade and profit was honest enough to present the facts and let Krupp be judged by his failures. Ditto many others; they line my shelves.
Would that Tony, turd or (joe asshole) be honest enough to present data and let the choice be made by same. Or even accept they live prosperous lives as a RESULT of the profit motive.
No, because my kids are vaccinated as am I, and up to date on their vaccines. I have told you and posted on here multiple times that I am not opposed to vaccines just vaccine mandates.
So all this hullabaloo and you’re just a guy who wears his seatbelt but doesn’t like that there’s a law about it.
Fair enough, but it’s hardly the difference between freedom and tyranny.
It is when you point a gun at me and tell me I have to take the shot. And all government mandates are enforced with a gun. Don't kid yourself otherwise.
soldier, all laws are backed up with a gun, so your position is clearly anarchy. Just own it man.
Get lost, asshole
"“I want everything, and I want for it to cost me nothing.”
Libertarianism is for retarded children. The children who haven’t figured out how anything works yet."
Shitstain states the desires of parasitic pieces of lefty shit like him and commie shit, claims that's what libertarians want.
Shitstain is entire too stupid or drunk to know when he's telling lies.
I'm guessing that shitstain linked this thread on VOX or some other brain-dead site, which attracted the boot lickers Joe Friday, Guy2010, JWjr; the lot
s76, you're doing a lot of heavy lifting here; and doing it with a forbearance for lame logic, outright lies, and total disregard for personal choice, a concept which is likely a mystery to every one.
You're tolerating a level of lefty shit up with which most of us will not put, to coin a phrase.
To all the boot lickers, if you're yet to read it, let me cheerfully suggest each one of you stuff it up your ass as your heads are wanting some company, and then, please, fuck off and die.
NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!
Is that clear?
I’m getting to my breaking point with these motherfuckers, not gonna lie.
It's because you're a sore loser... and a poor at argument. That's the true source of your frustration.
And here is another one. Using the same tired rhetoric. He even once again uses the stupid analogy of speed limits that has only be addressed about a 100 times today (a bit hyperbolic of me I apologize).
I'm sorry Sevo, were you talking to me?
No, steaming pile of lefty shit; you are merely one more boot-licking asshole who showed up to prove you don't know what you're talking about.
To all the boot lickers, if you’re yet to read it, let me cheerfully suggest each one of you stuff it up your ass as your heads are wanting some company, and then, please, fuck off and die.
Hey Joe just to be an asshole about it I'll post this abstract again. The latest research on masking. This is from the NIH database pubmed.
The coronavirus disease (COVID-19) spread rapidly around the world. Two types of approaches have been applied to use of face masks as a tool to prevent the spread this disease in society. The aim of the systematic review was to assess the effectiveness of face masks against the novel coronavirus. A literature search was performed using different databases until April 30, 2020. Search terms were ‘facemasks’, ‘novel coronavirus’, and ‘healthcare workers’. Five studies were included in the systematic review. A study stated that no difference between surgical and cotton masks. Also, two studies have emphasized the use of surgical masks or N95 respirators by medical staff, and two other studies emphasized the use of any type of face mask by general public. More studies in controlled contexts and studies of infections in healthcare and community places are needed for better definition of the effectiveness of face masks in preventing coronavirus.
Not on Vox, or Huffpo? Can't be true!
I know crazy me, actually using a reputable search data base, that is considered by many scientist to be the gold standard, to search for the actual peer reviewed research. I should just wait for someone, without a science degree, to write an article in a newspaper or website using cherry picked data to form my scientific understanding. I mean that was what my major professor had me do when I was conducting research. On wait, I have that backwards, it's the exact opposite of what we were allowed to do. I always get that confused (and I'll add the sarc text for people like Tony and Joe who won't get that I am being sarcastic).
soldier, that's not a study, it's a survey which makes no claims and proves nothing. See my post above for about 10 studies on the value of masks, as well as the CDC's latest advisory on school's masking.
You're not a scientist, you're an ideologue. You read until you get what you want, ignore the rest - in this case, most of it - and declare victory for your beliefs.
You're a steaming pile of lefty shit who really needs to fuck off and die.
It is a review which is fucking research dipshit. A review of literature is a valid research tool. You still don't know how science works do you? Can you tell us again how endemic means you don't need vaccines?
soldier, it's a neutral accounting of recent research. I posted above about 10 studies which support the effectiveness of masks in minimizing exposure. If by understanding science, you mean your trick of ignoring the obvious, no I don't do that. You are here to sell libertarian political correctness, not science, and you can only do that by a highly selective reading of what's out there. No, you're not a scientist.
I never said that about endemics, but if you think I did, quote me. This is the 3rd different false claim you have made about my post on the subject. Are you stupid or dishonest?
Slavers somehow think someone cares about their bullshit.
Fuck off and die.
Fucking laughing my ass off dipshit doesn't know the difference between a scientific research review and a survey and doesn't realize a scientific review is considered research as it collates the available research. And he calls me unscientific and not a scientist. I would love to compare CVs with this moron. Fucking A. That is too fucking funny. He disregards this scientific review because it runs counter to his views and he calls me an ideologue. And he accuses me of stopping at the first paper, when so far he hasn't yet cited any papers. If you want I can offer more citations.
He also doesn't seem to be aware that that is just the fucking abstract. LOL.
If you are to understand, you must first learn to read.
BTW, seems asshole Joe and the lot have decided (for good reason) that their whiny bullshit claims haven't convinced anyone lese to join them in the boot-licking ceremony and have fucked off.
We can hope they also died.
I will miss Joe he made me laugh with his statements and he was so convinced he was right. I mean how funny is that statement about endemic means a pathogen that you don't need a vaccine for? I am still chucking about that one.
I didn't say that or anything like that, simple one.
Fuck off and die, asshole
note soldier scores me for not knowing the lingo while ignoring the approximately 10 studies I linked above showing what he says has not been shown - masks work.
Just for shits and giggles Joe what is your degree in?
I am just wondering what your degree is in because you say I am not a real scientist, Despite the fact I have written multiple peer reviewed papers. Have been a peer reviewer for other papers. Have presented multiple times at internationally recognized science organizations annual meetings. Belong to five different internationally recognized progressional science organizations (one of which only accepts the top 5% of scientist in my field into). And am currently a science professor at an university. I've also guest lectured at another university multiple times.
I hold three degrees a BS in animal science a MS in Animal science and an associate's degree in nursing.
So I am assuming because you state I am not a real scientist you credentials are at least equal to mine.
I also graduated with honors and am a member of the agricultural sciences honor society. Not to brag. I just state it because you are so convinced I am not a scientist.
And just to clarify, animal science and veterinary medicine is the fields that developed the herd immunity theory. Just in case you were confused on that point.
And just to clarify, animal science and veterinary medicine is the fields that developed the herd immunity theory. Just in case you were confused on that point.
Neither Joe nor the other lefty shit piles will apply any credit here. Notice they are all newbies. They were given a link to this thread by shitstain, commie shit or another one of the lefty shits here.
EVERY one of them assumed, as adolescent bleevers do, that they were all arriving to offer NEW INFORMATION WHICH LIBERTARIANS COULD NEVER HAD READ BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!
Only to find out that all of their bullshit has been debunked and then left to whine that we are not faithful to their political gods!
Been here for a while; not the first time the lefty-shit spillway has been opened by those who hope other ignoramuses will swing the gates.
Likely shitstain; weakest arguments, but as a gay asshole, most SJW-sympathetic, hoping for support lame as it turned out to be.
soldier, a scientist doesn't discard what doesn't fit his ideology and that's what you do here. Your position on vaccines and masks are outlier minority viewpoints you obviously grab to support your belief system. I'm sure you are well educated and probably have IQ horsepower, but what a waste of educational resources and brainpower. You're using it to enable anti-vaxxers and mask opponents. By the way, I was startled by your misunderstanding of what masks do, which was clear by your attack on them. No, they don't primarily protect the wearer, they protect those around them, and are most effective when a very high number wear them, subject to be sabotaged by even one infected open mouth breather. You didn't know this?
Fuck off and die, slaver,
soldier, I have an AA degree. I own a construction company and I build higher end custom homes. By the way, and relevant to you, I managed a 30 head cow-calf operation for about 15 years and know something about beef production and farming.
Fuck off and die, slaver
Please cite again those ten papers. You said google it and you found ten papers. So I did and none of the ten top returns were peer reviewed papers. They were all journalistic accounts of cherry picked data. I cite an act (if you go to the paper the data is there but I just quoted the abstract).
Did you at least use the Google scholar filter Joe? Google scholar isn't as good as pubmed but at least takes you to peer reviewed journals.
Now, let's try to get some real information out here, in spite of the fact that steaming piles of lefty shit won't read or understand it.
1) The issue here is "mandates" and the resultant loss of liberties unless they are overturned.
2) "Rights" are, as understood by the Constitution, are "unalienable"; they do not come with "responsibilities", nor do I "negotiate" my rights with ANYONE, regardless of YOUR fears.
3) If you are very concerned about your susceptibility to WuFlu, it is up to YOU (not me) to assure your health. Nowhere is there any legal responsibility on anyone to keep you from getting sick.
4) This is a disease with an extremely low mortality rate, and typically among those with co-morbidities of age, weight, etc. If you are among those groups, it's probably wise to get jabbed.
5) Whether anyone other than you or your family has chosen to get poked is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!
Is that clear?
And if it is not clear, let me add please fuck off and die.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/08/vaccine-mandate-strong-supreme-court-precedent-510280
If libertarians were consistent at all, they'd be all up-in-arms about speed limits. Why should I obey the speed limit? I have an unalienable right to drive my car as fast as I want on public roads I helped pay for.
Oh, and COVID has killed 650000 American in the last 1.5 years, where as ~37k die in traffic accidents.
Soooo... where's the outrage ? Hyprocrites.
We don't have to look far for the stupidity; you just brought it.
Fuck off and die, slaver.
BTW, are you among those so stupid as to assume your bullshit hasn't been shown to be such up-thread? Or is there some other excuse for being such a steaming lefty pile of shit?
How stupid do you wish to prove yourself? Does your mommy impose limits on your self-exposed-stupidity on the web?
As a newbie steaming pile of lefty shit and possibly as an ignoramus besides, you are probably not cognizant that Ken (here) got your number months ago.
Lying piles of lefty shit at dishonest, certainly. But that is only a symptom of a stupidity of such depth that they really do not understand that they are repeating a lie which was properly and accurately refuted.
Normally, such steaming piles of lefty shit avoid the same lie for at least a day or so, but here we have a raging case of steaming pile of lefty stupidity such that a couple of hours will suffice to be busted on it once again!
Congrats, asshole! A new record of stupidity!
I was just coming here to say something similar. I mean how many times are the going to use the false analogy of speed limits? It's like they have a wheel of arguments spin the needle and go with that one. I would love to see an original, well intentioned argument with new analogies. Guess I'll go back to drinking beer and reading about the American Revolution. At least there, even though it is material I am very familiar with the author brings new insights into it. Also, if you like Jeff Shaara, I strongly recommend Bernard Cornwell. I would start out with his Sharpe series. It follows a British soldier from his days in India in the enlisted ranks, were he wins a promotion to the officer corp and then through the Peninsula campaign during the Napoleonic wars. Lots of swashbuckling action mixed with lots of historical facts, and some pretty obscure facts about life as a British infantryman. The Sharpe series is described as the British Army's version of CS Forrester's Horatio Hornblower series, which I also highly recommend. And Patrick O'Brien's Aubrey and Martin series (it was the one the movie Master and Commander was based on).
And here I was hoping to give you a break.
Lefty shitpiles are not lacking in stooopid or number.
Was that meant for me? Or squirrels?
Meant to give you a break.
Okay. I gotcha. Took me a minute. I had really came back on because you asked about that book Redcoat so wanted to give you a review of the authors works. I forgot one series he wrote I didn't include in the list, a trilogy on the Civil War from the viewpoint of a Copperhead who fought in Lee's Army under Jackson's command.
Cornwell is a British author, the same as Forrester and O'Brian, so his language is sometimes esoteric and he tries to stay true to the language that was used in the day. He also has written five books about the 100 years war (one four book series and one stand alone series) a series about the Danish Conquest of England and the rise of King Albert, a series about the Anglo-Saxon invasion of England (he takes it from the view of if Arthur was a true historical character) and a stand alone book about prehistoric England that focuses on the possible founding of Stone Hinge (this last one is more speculative but still a good read).
"I was just coming here to say something similar. I mean how many times are the going to use the false analogy of speed limits?..."
Again (tired of making the point), these are not people who "think" in the generally accepted meaning of the term.
They pick an "argument" (fake stat) off of Huffpo or some such, post it here and hope that it's accepted.
As Ken made clear, these are not people with the mental abilities to separate their fantasies from reality and the the lefty pile of shit makes Ken's argument clear.
The false equivalence was pointed out not more that 4 or 5 hours ago and the steaming pile of lefty shit is trying to sell it AGAIN!
How stupid do you have to be to do so?
As stupid as the steaming pile of lefty shit Dubious! That's how stooooopid!
That is why I used the wheel of choice analogy. Spin the wheel and that is the argument you use. I did say I'll let you swat them for awhile. Was really just offering you some suggestions for historical fiction books I think you might enjoy. Or not. I see you have it well handled.
Besides Dubious doesn't look to be as much fun as Joe was. He looks to be just mendacious. And there is no fun in debating those people.
+1^
Already settled:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/08/vaccine-mandate-strong-supreme-court-precedent-510280
If # of deaths is the metric to gauge whether a mandate is justifiable, then lets start getting rid of a bunch of laws that impede my freedom... lets start with speed limits.
What has been settled, lefty streaming pile of shit, is your inability to to read here:
Now, let’s try to get some real information out here, in spite of the fact that steaming piles of lefty shit won’t read or understand it.
1) The issue here is “mandates” and the resultant loss of liberties unless they are overturned.
2) “Rights” are, as understood by the Constitution, are “unalienable”; they do not come with “responsibilities”, nor do I “negotiate” my rights with ANYONE, regardless of YOUR fears.
3) If you are very concerned about your susceptibility to WuFlu, it is up to YOU (not me) to assure your health. Nowhere is there any legal responsibility on anyone to keep you from getting sick.
4) This is a disease with an extremely low mortality rate, and typically among those with co-morbidities of age, weight, etc. If you are among those groups, it’s probably wise to get jabbed.
5) Whether anyone other than you or your family has chosen to get poked is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!
Is that clear?
And if it is not clear, let me add please fuck off and die.
Please, make your family proud, the world a better place, and tell your dog where you are to be buried to make sure it knows where to shit. Unless it has to stand in line,
It must be really frustrating being a libertarian. Having to live in a democratic republic where we freely elect our leaders to make laws to protect our, and I quote the constitution here: "general welfare".
Maybe that's the source of your angst and conflict... you actually have to live in a society with people who disagree with you.
Sad for you that libertarianism is a paper tiger.
Oh, and if you don't like the mandate, work for a company with fewer than 100 employees. There's your freedom of choice.
P.S. - you got it wrong, it's not fuck off and die, it's "fuck off slaver". That's the catch phrase most popular among your type.
Not nearly as frustrating as being a steaming pile of lefty shit, steaming pile of lefty shit.
Fuck off and die. But make sure your dog knows where to shit.
Democracy is a real problem for them.
One gets the impression that their big problem in life is not being king and commander of all they survey despite really really wanting to be in charge of everything.
In school, we called the kids who behaved this way “assholes.”
Fuck off and die, asshole.
Democracy was a real problem for you too, when the majority decided to make sodomy illegal. It’s not a panacea.
But then, you don’t really care about democracy, freedom, or liberty, you care about power and control.
Democracy doesn’t give you everything you want all the time. Yes, I am aware. It’s one of those things that makes you realize how educated and mature people need to be for democracy to work.
The thing is, I know of very few tyrannical regimes that treat the gays any better.
If shitstain didn’t have strawmen, shitstain would have nothing to post about.
Fuck off and die, slaver
“……really, really want to be in charge of everything.”
Says the guy who said “shut the fuck up and get the jab.”
Wow. Living in fear really sucks. What a bitter little guy.
s76 - my turn for awhile; no lack of lefty shit piles.
Okay. I was just giving you some reviews on historical fiction books I thought you'd be interested in.
Appreciate it but don't read a lot of fiction.
Okay just suggestions. I understand. It you get the bug, I suggest them. Lots of good history in them. Especially the shit about the Napoleonic Wars. I thought my sergeants were tough. Fuck. They weren't nothing compared to Sergeants in the British Army during the Napoleonic wars.
And at the risk of bugging you, while I am thinking about it, since you said you had an official extensive world war 2 library. I read a book back in high school and I can't remember the title of it, but it was the memoirs of a combat engineer during the Ardennes counteroffensive. It was something like "Those Damn Engineers" do you know what I am talking about? I would like to read it again (been about 30 years since I have)? I want to see if Amazon Kindle has it.
Doesn't ring bells; will look.
If was called Those Damn Engineers it isn't on Kindle. It was by David Pergrin commander of the 291st engineer battalion. I found it on Wikipedia of all things. Have to see if I can get a copy on Amazon.
I've been trying to find it for awhile. Didn't even think to look on Wikipedia.
Fucking Amazon does have a copy paperback for $29.95, fuck.
No great surprise; lefty shit piles have seemed to disappeared.
Threads like this (and the 'climate change' threads tend to get linked to Vox, Huffpo and other brain-dead sites by those hoping for support from other brain-deads; shit stain and commie shit come to mind.
They'll show up, make the required lefty-shit whines, find that their AMAZINGLY ORIGINAL points are bullshit we've all looked at an rejected before, and slink back off to Huffpo, claiming they "schooled" us.
Willing to bet but not willing to take a look.
You have got to get yourself a life man.
What would you know about having a life?
This from shitstain; a fat drunk living in flyover country posting at 1AM!
Guess they rolled up the sidewalks and he couldn't go out.
Fat slab of cock, not fat fat. Listen more carefully when your mother describes people.
No one cares about your fantasies, shitstain.
Gangtok Indian Beautiful city
I like that people here are battling with NG's fanboys, if the LP can rid itself of NG and his progressive supporters it can get on with becoming a real political force in American politics.
the whole lot of them are just progressives who feel that the Dem Party isn't anti-Christian enough so they call themselves "Libertarians" all the while supporting the insanity of modern Leftism
they aren't libertarians and they are poison to the LP
This quick video is making the rounds. An ICU nurse working her shift and describing her experience.
The news article links to the video she made.
https://news.yahoo.com/nurses-viral-video-beeping-icu-181350326.html
Good job soldier medic. I do not have all the answers and cannot predict the future. Best we have is more jabs in arms. The enemy is not just the virus. It is disinformation.
Oh, goody! Anecdote from nurse!
The Vaccine is NOT a cure, it is masking the symptoms so people don't even know if they are carrying COVID - Many articles, do your homework
CDC Changes Definition of Vaccine - Have to make that square peg fit
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEDSU592azS9hC4Rhi2XxeYUqFwgEKg8IACoHCAow5uLNATDi2ycw3vRO?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
FDA has two top people leave due to conflict with "White House" Marion Gruber, director of the FDA’s Office of Vaccines Research & Review, and deputy director Phil Krause
This is a personal choice.
It not like driving a 2 ton vehicle down the road. If someone wanted to get a "Shot" for a 2 ton vehicle so they may not get hit, then you could say its one for one.
Its not about safety, don't kid yourself. If it were , N95 mask would be REQUIRED. Nothing less, no cloth, no sponge.
I don't like masks either but. look at safety. The Vax is not stopping COVID. COVID Vaccine is not a vaccine, it is misnamed, its a flu shot that has no long term testing. Look at everything they are learning daily about COVID.
** Monoclonal Antibody Therapy has been around for a while and has a great track record for people who get COVID. But the GOV is sitting on it (Regeneron’s COVID-19 antibody) and has results in 6 hours.
Follow the money. There are some heartless greedy people in this world.
Don't think Divide and Conquer is just and old term- Step back and see it happen to the US
It’s all a conspirasuh! Just like other stuff yesterday and yet more stuff the day before! Everyone’s in on it, but it’s mostly the Jews!
At some point you’d think Occam’s razor would enter the picture. Do you have any idea how many people in how many countries would have to be lying simultaneously for these theories to be true?
Do you have any idea how ridiculous it looks for unwashed Trump hillbillies to assert superior knowledge of epidemiology than the world’s medical experts?
Oh you know those experts. There’s something a little jewy about them at any rate.
If shitstain didn't have strawmen, shitstain would have nothing to post about.
Fuck off and die, slaver
It’s fucking hilarious that Tony is shilling for Big Pharma after all of these years.
Trump was the government force-initiating communist Dems deserved and got. Biden is the government force-initiating fascist GOP-pees deserve and got. Libertarian is what people vote once they elect thinking and reject social pressure and altruist collectivism.
Scared, senile tyrants like Biden deserve neither freedom or safety.
Remember, be upfront about any defects, no matter how small they might be and no matter how few people might readily notice it
HONEST
soldeirmedic's "research" on masks which he's so proud of:
" A literature search was performed using different databases until April 30, 2020..."
Simple. Insurance has to stop covering Covid treatment for unvaccinated people. If they want monoclonals or Ivermectin instead it should come out of their own pocket. Vaccines are cheaper. Why should my insurance premiums subsidize your ignorance?
The 4th amendment to the Constitution makes this argument moot, but let's revisit it again:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue.
So, if you've got a warrant, I guess you're going to come in, but if you don't; get off my porch.
"As important, the "vaccine-hesitant" are hesitant for all sorts of reasons. Poorer people tend to be less vaccinated than average, and so are blacks and Hispanics and younger people, and, weirdly, people with doctorates."
Fun fact about the bell curve. Often times, it's both the "smartest" and "dumbest" people at the extremes who get it right while the "educated" middle that can't think for itself often doesn't. It's really not strange at all to have a smart/dumb alliance against the middle. The majority is rarely correct due to the nature of information. Information that is easily believed, spreads among the masses, and is worshipped like "Science" is today is purpose built for spreading. It oversimplifies reality, destroys nuance, forbids grey areas, and typically fails to communicate complex information. The idiom "Common sense isn't common" applies here.
And the best part of you ran down your mother's leg.
Actually, that's not true. Bacteria like you reproduce by fission, so there's no leg to get drippy.
jeffsarc relates his knowledge of "duh science" as he understands it from his public school education.
How's your GED working out for ya? Has McDonalds promoted you to shift leader yet?
Sarc claims to only attack other commenters after he’s attacked, then proceeds to regularly ntaginize other commenters without provocation.
Whatever you say GG. Aren't you going to accuse me of having sex with my child?
No day at Reason is complete without you calling me a drunken pedophile.
C'mon! You're slacking!
You haven't called me a faggot yet either.
You're slipping. Seriously.
Whoops!
https://reason.com/2021/09/10/no-biden-this-is-about-freedom-and-personal-choice/#comment-9095761
I was a minute late!
Soooooo predictable!
It's not whether you're a minute late of not; it's that you're a fucking lefty pile of shit.
Better than your 6th grade report card, asshole.
It's kinda funny how sarcasmic has such reverence for education now since he's a self-confessed high school dropout and has talked at length about his inability to keep a job due to his alcoholism and drug abuse, which found him spending most of his young adulthood as a homeless itinerant. That, of course, was before last year when he became a respected netsec expert and computer programming at the cutting edge of his field... who had to ask the kind folks at glibertarians.com how to italicize text in HTML. Lmfao
You're a fucking lefty shitpile. Seriously.
Lmfao. Again, that's me, not Geiger Goldstaedt. I can't even begin to tell you how gratifying it is for me to listen to you whine and moan like a pathetic simpering little faggot bitch every single day of your life about how persecuted you are. Knowing how deeply that cuts you. Knowing that I'm in your head rent-free, during all of your waking hours, and probably in most of your dreams. Feed me, Seymour! Feed me!
Also, as I pointed out previously elsewhere, if the flu is the model for COVID, then it would've been wiser to wait until we had a few variants under our belt before developing the mRNA vaccine (my understanding is that the J&J vaccine doesn't target as few epitopes). It would've lent itself to a better tiered effect and boosters as well. Hospital workers, old people, and anyone who wants it gets each monovalent jab as it comes out. Everyone else is free to wait for a multi-valent jab if not forego entirely. Trump's fault for operation warp speed but the CDC really should've known better.
We have always been at war with ISIS-K.
He's a total fucking obnoxious retard, and he's the first person on here i ever muted. i swear to God he makes tony look like Carl Sagan.
It is I who (correctly, and truthfully) points out your history of sexually abusing your children which is why you lost custody of them to their mother in your acrimonious divorce, you retarded sack of shit.
i swear to God he makes tony look like Carl Sagan.
I nearly choked laughing after I read that.
You’re such a fucking crybaby. You come in picking a fight then whine and cry when you’re obliged.
Poor, poor Sarcasmic. So eager to play, yet so reluctant to admit it.