Coronavirus

Do People Want Their Pre-Pandemic Freedom Back?

Polling finds wide support for draconian lockdowns and permanent restrictions.

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When it comes to insanely restrictive (and, arguably, ineffective) pandemic measures, critics tend to point the finger at public officials and their appetite for power. But government functionaries may be no more of a danger to post-COVID freedom than some of our neighbors. Recent polling suggests that many among us not only approve of the lockdowns of the past year and foresee public health restrictions continuing into the indefinite future, but they also want the world to remain constrained by efforts to prevent illness—or maybe just constrained, and never mind the reason.

"Public willingness to sacrifice for the common good in a time of crisis has surprised ministers," The Economist noted last week. "But the pandemic has also revealed John Bull's authoritarian streak." The magazine went on to report on the results of polling conducted along with Ipsos MORI that found a surprising degree of support among Britons not just for the lockdowns of the past year, but for maintaining restrictions sold as efforts to head off the spread of COVID-19.

"Polling by Ipsos MORI for The Economist suggests two-thirds think masks, social distancing and travel restrictions should continue for another month. A majority would support them until covid-19 is controlled worldwide, which may take years. Even more strikingly, a sizeable minority would like personal freedoms to be restricted permanently. A quarter say nightclubs and casinos should never reopen; almost two in ten would support an indefinite ban on leaving home after 10pm 'without good reason'," the report added.

Did that say "restricted permanently"? Yes, it did. Full results at the polling firm's website reveal 19 percent support for a permanent 10pm curfew. Significant minorities favor other permanent restrictions, including: keeping nightclubs and casinos closed forever (26 percent); enforced social distancing in theaters, pubs and sports grounds (34 percent); mandatory 10-day quarantines for people returning from foreign countries (35 percent); mandatory tracking-app check-ins when entering pubs and restaurants (36 percent); mandatory masks in shops and on public transportation (40 percent); foreign travel allowed only with proof of vaccination (46 percent).

Ipsos emphasizes that support for permanent restrictions is in the minority, although majorities favor keeping some controls in place "until COVID-19 is under control worldwide." But it's such a surprisingly large minority that The Economist portrays the data as evidence that liberty-loving England is a myth.

It's easy to scoff at the polling results from across the Atlantic—especially so soon after July 4th festivities. We knew there was a reason the founders wanted American independence, right? But a portion of the U.S. population shares a similar taste for public health restrictions.

"A plurality of voters say their area should start to roll back coronavirus restrictions when at least 75 percent of the local population is vaccinated," a Hill-HarrisX poll found in March. "14 percent said restrictions should be kept in place 'indefinitely.'"

When you get more specific about "restrictions" support for them seems to increase.

"A growing number of Americans want to get the coronavirus vaccine, and a majority also support workplace, lifestyle and travel restrictions for those not inoculated against COVID-19," a Reuters/Ipsos poll found the same month. The poll found majority support for barring the unvaccinated from airplanes (63 percent), public schools (59 percent), gyms (54 percent), theaters (56 percent), and offices where they're employed (56 percent). All of this even though the vaccines against COVID-19 are remarkably effective at shielding those who take them against illness, no matter the status of people around them.

Admittedly, that was several months ago, before everybody who wanted a COVID-19 vaccine had an opportunity to get jabbed; fears may have calmed since then. But more recent surveys showing a continuing expectation of, and taste for, restrictions.

"Stay at home orders" issued over the past year in response to the pandemic "were necessary to protect public health," agreed 62 percent of respondents to a June poll by East Carolina University's Center for Survey Research even after a year of closure orders, resulting economic devastation and social strife, and hypocritical violations of their own rules by politicians. By contrast, only a quarter of respondents said the orders "wrongly took away people's personal freedom." 

Similar majorities favored face-covering mandates (65.1 percent) and quarantine requirements (67.9 percent) imposed in many states over the past year—but also said that wasn't enough. COVID-19 "was a problem and not enough was done early on to stop it from getting worse," agreed 62.6 percent of those polled. A dissenting 28.5 percent believed "it was a problem, but governments overreacted."

Looking forward, healthy people should "stay home as much as possible to avoid contracting or spreading the coronavirus" say 35 percent of those polled in June by Gallup. A depressingly high 40 percent say that life will "never get back to normal."

Overall, despite high-profile protests and criticism by public health experts concerned that more harm than good was done by draconian limits on human life that "had no detectable health benefits" in the words of University of Chicago researchers, many Americans, like their counterparts in the U.K., approve of the lockdowns and mandates of the past year. Given their support for those policies, it's likely they'd approve of similar responses to public health challenges in the future. And some people see no reason to wait for new problems—they want the world to be less free going forward than it was pre-COVID-19.

The Economist suggests the pandemic may only be an excuse for those who already wanted a reason to constrain their neighbors.

"Many Britons did not go out dancing or drinking, or take overseas holidays, even before the pandemic," the magazine's writers point out. "Nightclubs, casinos and dark streets harbour all sorts of wrongdoers. For some, it seems, endless lockdown is an acceptable price for everyone else staying home."

We already know that many people in our fractured world disapprove of hobbies, businesses, and lifestyles enjoyed by others and would like to see them disappear. The virus, then, may just be an opportunity for those who want to rein in freedoms they find frightening. They happily applaud restrictions on liberty not because they're necessary for public health, but because they restrict.

Fortunately, those eager to permanently constrain our lives constitute a minority. But when added to the ranks of those who approved such public health measures before and seem inclined to support them again given half a reason, freedom looks all-too insecure in the post-COVID-19 world.

NEXT: The USPS' Semi-Secret Internet Surveillance Apparatus

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  1. “Do People Want Their Pre-Pandemic Freedom Back?”

    People – yes
    Lemmings – no.

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    2. Then, there is a third class beyond lemming….inhabitants of the People’s Republic of NJ.

      Sad that Phailing Phil Murphy will easily be re-elected. We deserve the representation we elect.

      1. We’ll see how Ciatarelli does. He needs to stop referencing Trump in his commercials. NJ is not TX.

        And fuck Phil Murphy.

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        2. Ciatarelli has commercials? Odd that I haven’t seen any; you’d figure he’d want to do something to motivate Monmouth County residents to vote.

          1. It’s still early.

    3. People = Yes
      Libs and Dems = NO!

    4. My natural rights aren’t up for debate. Anyone who pushes to infringe in them is an existential enemy and should be dealt with as such.

  2. I don’t know what the dynamic is in the UK, but in the U.S., I suspect a lot of progressives support lock downs for the same reasons they support Dr. Fauci, Hunter Biden, and refuse to gamble in a Trump casino. Support for lockdowns has become an expression of faith for progressives–a signifier of piety–like eating fish on Fridays is for Catholics. There are plenty of others. Progressives love nothing more than signaling their pieties.

    1. Makes sense. Fauci represents the technocratic, all-controlling government of their dreams. If Fauci was wrong, that means they were, too.

      1. Disaffected, science-disdaining, vanquished, inconsequential, anti-social, virus-flouting, ‘you are not the boss of me’ right-wingers are among my favorite culture war casualties.

        Well . . . and the bigots.

        1. Yup. Let us hope the CRT bigots go the way of the sea cow.

        2. You are free to stay home, Reverend. I mean, if your greatest pleasures are jacking off to MSNBC and NPR, why would you ever leave the house?

          1. I find it more likely that Arty angrily jacks it to Trump’s speeches.

          2. I can just imagine him grunting and groaning in time with every “Hmmm…Hmmm…”

        3. ‘you are not the boss of me’

          You’ll make a good slave.

          1. For sure…he already makes a good stupid asshole who should move to Venezuela with his kind.

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        4. I’m thinking you Poe’s lawed a few folks here.

        5. If they were so vanquished and inconsequential, why are they a trophy, again? Then again, I may be expecting too much internal consistency…

        6. No “Carry on, Clingers?” You’re losing your touch, Artie.

    2. What good is being a fundamentalist if you can’t signal your moral superiority?

      1. 70 virgins and multiple wives, but this specific breed of fundamentalism doesn’t even get *that* wild.

        1. potential sister husbands/cucks

    3. Agree; the face mask did indeed become the equivalent of the MAGA hat for team blue.

      As for “We already know that many people in our fractured world disapprove of hobbies, businesses, and lifestyles enjoyed by others and would like to see them disappear. The virus, then, may just be an opportunity for those who want to rein in freedoms they find frightening. They happily applaud restrictions on liberty not because they’re necessary for public health, but because they restrict.”

      The Puritans haven’t gone any where; they’re just called progressives now.

      1. You guys are all twisted up. It’s something to behold.

        1. You haven’t refuted it yet, lard ass strudel.

      2. Even then, when the crops were growing in the field and the plague wasn’t claiming able-bodied men, Puritans had trouble finding witches to burn. The progressives aren’t even Puritaning correctly.

        1. They say it takes a village to burn a witch.

          1. A village of Karens.

      3. “The Puritans haven’t gone any where; they’re just called progressives now.”

        We might even compare them, unfavorable, to the evangelical fanatics of the 19th century. After all, the fanatics of the 19th century had abolitionism. All the progressive fanatics of today have is hating their fellow Americans over issues that mostly just boil down to signaling.

        1. Hey they don’t call it “The Great Awokening” for nothing

          1. Our response should be ‘the great culling’.

        2. If only John Brown had stormed a fire extinguisher factory instead of the armory at Harper’s Ferry.

        3. I think you’re package-dealing some things together where “One of These Things Is Not Like the Others.” Puritanism and Progressivism are fanatical worldviews whose end result is to restrain and enslave human beings.

          Abolitionism was and is just the desire to see the other person as free as you are. Perfectly rational, even if argued with justifiable righteous anger.

    4. lock downs also reduces carbon use and many have stated we should maintain the lockdowns for climate justice

    5. We are also seeing an emergence of the cell phone zombies. Where it used to be rare here and mostly among the younger set I have noticed it spreading to a more diverse age groups. People walking, sitting and driving with their faces glued to the screen. They take their eyes off just long enough to do some small task and then right back at it. For them why go to a night club just to stare at a screen? Don’t need to take my mask off if I am just staring at a screen. Need something, order it on the screen and have it delivered. I agree some of those who would not object to the continuation of the lockdowns are just because the other side says they are bad but the willingness to give up their freedoms points to a much larger and scarier problem.

    6. It’s a well-known psychological thing – people will refuse to believe they’ve been conned. If they got persuaded to get vaccinated, they want to see bad things happen to people who chose not to get vaccinated to validate their choice. If nothing bad happens to the people who refused to get vaccinated, or – God forbid – bad things happen to those who did get vaccinated, then they were fools to get panicked into getting the jab, right? Nobody wants to be forced to admit they were fools. They need to see a refusal to get vaccinated carry consequences so they can feel good about themselves.

      1. Speaking as a pro-Vaxxer, I don’t look forward to dead anti-vaxxers, just the WuFlu and every other communicable disease going the way of Polio and Smallpox. You can use that floor wax and enjoy the dessert topping of freedom too.

    7. At this point, unless required by an employer or health facility, wearing a mask is mostly a political statement.

      1. Mostly?

        The world’s a theater, and they’re in costume, ready to take their cues from the director.

    8. “like eating fish on Fridays is for Catholics.”

      Sigh. It’s not about the fish. It’s about not eating meat. I’d be willing to bet more Catholics eat cheese pizza on Fridays in Lent than eat fish.

      1. The speciousness of that notion goes all the way back to Voltaire when he railed against the aristocracy because they were the only one who could afford to eat fish.

        As if that mattered.

    9. This is totally what it is.

    10. Hey! Come on now! I’m a progressive, and I absolutely do NOT support indefinite lockdowns, for anything, or anybody. I don’t gamble in casinos, nor am I interested in doing so.

    11. Politics in america has been a team sport since the days of john adams vs tom jefferson and i think ppl who are blind to it just arent paying attention. the people i know who are against covid restrictions tend to be “the government is not my boss” crowd while those who embrace any and every rule that comes down from sinai believe themselves to be the smarter crowd with bigger hearts. Ultimately i think it will turn out that covid restrictions were a bad idea, they damaged economies and families in ways that will last for decades; they did not allow nature to shake off more people (and if 7.8B people on the planet doesn’t make you sad you’re a psychopath), and it gave companies and governments more excuses for monitoring people and exerting power over them.

      The last I checked, about 4M people had died of Covid. The UN says that about 9M people worldwide die of starvation and hunger-related diseases and somehow the “love is love” crown all sleep well at night. But apparently people who don’t wear masks are heartless and probably bigots. “I believe in science,” and “Climate change is real” but they don’t want to lighten the load of WHY climate change is happening. They don’t point out that is has been the scientists who have pretty much created every problem the modern world is suffocating under.

      Australian farms right now are overrun with mice that are eating a lot of grain and farmers can’t kill them fast enough. Too many mice. Such a plague. Doing so much damage. But somehow people, the apex predator that kills everything it touches, should mask up, get that shot, save lives, love is love, believe the science, all genders are whole, etc., etc.

  3. Well, of course. It’s the sort of world some people have always wanted. To them COVID just represents a new opportunity to push in that direction.

    It’s a world where nobody has to grow up.

    1. “It’s a world where nobody has to grow up.”

      Or perhaps it’s a world where nobody is ALLOWED to grow up?

  4. “Polling finds wide support for draconian lockdowns and permanent restrictions.”

    Doesn’t matter. I learned at Reason.com that we’re in a LIBERTARIAN MOMENT because more Americans than ever agree with the assertion “Immigration is a good thing.”

    #ImmigrationAboveAll

  5. Shit like this is why I can’t be outraged about war or other mass-death events. Most people are just annoying statists who want to tyrannize me, so fuck them.

    1. Don’t believe the bullshit story about bullshit polls

  6. I think we were simply too lazy in lifting restrictions. Where was the mandate to eat our spinach before lockdown ended? Nowhere that’s where. Kids these days. Just lazy. Eat your spinach.

  7. I know people who are ordinarily the most government-avoiding people around, working for cash, not trusting banks, avoid Facebook like the plague, even doing their best to stay out of other people’s pictures just to dodge the chance if being on the internet. Yet they are scared to death of COVID, one of the first around to make gallons of their own hand sanitizer, buying up masks, and couldn’t wait to get the shots. I’ve tried pointing out how they are playing into the government’s hands, but all they do is mutter about better safe than sorry.

    1. Same here. I know a guy who used to rant and rave about the FDA holding up approval of experimental drugs and drugs approved in other countries. Now, he’s all “I won’t get vaccinated. They rushed this through without long term studies of adverse effects.”

      1. Let me explain…
        If I’m dying of cancer and want to try some crazy shit on the off chance it works, I should be able to.
        If I don’t want to try some crazy experimental vaccine, because I’m not afraid of super wuflu, I shouldn’t be forced to take it. If I was more likely than not to die from super ccp-19, I think that I should be allowed to take unapproved experimental medications IF I WANT TO. YOU STUPID FAGGOT

        1. Relax, that was the same philosophy as Queer Nation with regard to experimental HIV/AIDS drugs. One result of their activism was that Thalidamide that was once banned because of birth defects is now used for treating wasting disease in HIV/AIDS patients.

          Rest assured, you are among friends.

      2. #Libertarians4FDARedTapeAndBureaucracy

    2. That’s consistent though. Those people are just paranoid.

    3. Oh, come off of it! I’m fully vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine, have been fully vaccinated since the end of March 2021, and I’m more than glad of it! I still wear masks when I go out in public, and I’m glad of it.

      I’m glad I did get the vaccines, because at least, if I were to come down with Covid-19, it would at least reduce my chances of becoming really seriously ill as a result, end up in the hospital on a goddamned ventilator, and/or possibly even die from Covid-19 itself.

      1. You’re “glad” to still be wearing a mask? One wonders why you assumedly didn’t wear one before all this hullabaloo. Or was COVID the catalyst that opened your eyes to the wonders of chin diapers? Either way, your capacity for risk assessment is clearly impaired.

      2. If you’re fully vaccinated and you still wear a mask, you’re a fucking idiot, full stop.

      3. “if I were to come down with Covid-19, it would at least reduce my chances of becoming really seriously ill as a result, end up in the hospital on a goddamned ventilator, and/or possibly even die from Covid-19 itself.”

        It lowers your odds of a problem from .0000000002 to .0000000001. Can see the benefit.

  8. Britain again? What’s up with that? Why always England this or that?

    1. i think because they’re an engish-speaking nation so their news and polls are easy to access for american journos.

  9. News bulletin! Many people are both puritans and pussies. These traits have increased in the modern west, and create a positive feedback loop with support for the progressive nanny state.

    1. And these tendencies greatly increased when we let women vote. See Prohibition.

      1. to be fair, prohibition came about because of the horrible consequences of alcohol use. women have paid the price for men drinking for centuries, and in the 19th c women were ready to stand up and say something about it. divorce was extremely difficult and a man could beat or rape his wife while drunk and get away with it all the time. in a bio of laura ingalls wilder there is the story of a young man who is an alcoholic and his family moves to walnut grove because it is a dry town and they want him to be abstinent. within a couple months, however, a saloon opened up and he began to drink again. while drunk, he threw a lighted oil lamp at his mother who caught on fire and burned to death. so there is that.

  10. Betteridge’s law of headlines in full effect here.

  11. The nanny state has always enjoyed more support on the other side of the pond.

    If you ever read, The Children of Men (rather than see the shit movie allegedly based on the novel), it’s written by a career bureaucrat. The central premise is that society falls apart unless children are the primary focus (Won’t someone please think of the children?!), and the central point of the novel is that if you knew what the bureaucrats knew, you’d do the same things they do. Of course, the experts know what they’re doing. Why not just do as you’re told?

    When I see the British rail against bureaucracy, it reminds me of the Greeks proclaiming, “Moderation in all things”. The reason the Greeks obsessively about moderation was because they were probably the most immoderate people in history. Watching Brazil rail against bureaucracy or reading “Shooting an Elephant”, you’re not seeing the dominant reaction of the British to the bureaucrats ordering them about. You’re seeing a reaction against dominant British mores.

    It’s still a class obsessed society. If the people with less than favored accents, races, and sexes make it to the top, it’s because the modern aristocracy wants it that way. They prefer order. I’ve read that the perfect expression of British civility is the queue, where people, without being ordered to do so, naturally form an orderly line. They say that when Robinson Caruso was alone on his deserted island, he formed a queue of one. Talk about natural born subjects of bureaucrats–they’re happy when they’re standing in line!

    When the British were bringing civilization to the world through colonization and imperialism, it wasn’t just the religion, the education, and the language they were brining. It was also the bureaucracy. Civilizing the world meant sending bureaucrats to administer it. One common feature of British dystopian literature, all the way down to V for Vendetta, is the fantasy that the British maintain a semblance of order–because they maintain a semblance of British bureaucracy–while the United States is tearing itself apart in a bloody civil war.

    It doesn’t surprise me that plenty among the British want the bureaucrats in charge of even more of their lives. It’s what they’ve always wanted. Plenty of the colonists came to America to escape that mentality. People believing whatever they want–without the bureaucrats of the Anglican church to oversee them?! Even the socialist left of the UK wants to be under a bureaucracy. They just want the bureaucracy to be controlled by labor unions and the like.

    1. It’s still a class obsessed society.

      I worked with some Brits in the US, and attest to that! One was “lower” class and proud of it, yet at the same time professed to be really happy at working in the US, and had a story about his mates snubbing him for going to night classes. One was a snob bragging about being 47th in line for the throne, and not as a joke; he seriously meant it as an indication of his high status. One was so spoiled that you could bet he dropped his clothes on the floor at night and expected a maid to pick them up, judging from his behavior around the office. The others all followed the same pattern, but not quite as extremely. They all just reeked of class awareness.

      1. When they call someone a bastard, it’s a real insult.

        When we call someone a rotten bastard, it’s often a form of congeniality.

        1. How about “dirty old bastard?”

          1. I’ve had it explained to me that they would never refer to themselves as bastards.

            The idea that people in the U.S. would joking refer to their own kids as bastards seemed to be even stranger to them than the idea that the “c-word” was especially unacceptable. I maintain that, in the USA, “Fuck” is no longer the king of cuss words. People who say “fuck” all the time won’t use the “c-word”. And if they do? It means they’re seeing red. The gloves are off. They’ve lost it. They’re capable of anything.

            1. Im pretty sure nigger is the current king of the cusses. Faggot is probably second. Cunt 3rd. Shit seems to have passed fuck on the list. Certain people who find cunt extremely offensive would probably throw bitch in there near the top of the list.

              1. Neither of those two, you mentioned, are cuss words per se.

                They’re slurs.

                These are the cuss words:

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_dirty_words#The_words

                “Fuck” used to be the worst, but it isn’t anymore.

                1. “Fuck” is more functional since it can be used as verb, noun, adjective, adverb. “Faggot” not so much. Do Brits still use it describe a cigarette?

        2. Who’s your daddy?

      2. So just 46 throats to cut and he’s in?

    2. Ken – have you filed a 27B – 6 form?

    3. “It doesn’t surprise me that plenty among the British want the bureaucrats in charge of even more of their lives.”

      That doesn’t explain Brexit, the most significant political event of the century. Brexit was successful because the English rejected bureaucracy. Perhaps you mean the Scots and Irish have such an affinity to bureaucracy. They embraced the Brussels bureaucracy. The English, Irish, Welsh and Scots are all different nationalities, and it’s not productive to assume otherwise.

      1. Brexit wasn’t about bureaucrats. It was about nostalgia.

        1. Nostalgia for the days when Britain was free of Brussels bureaucrats. According to every Reason writer, and its commentariat, including Ken Shultz, I’m sure, Britons wanted to engage the international community “while managing their own affairs, without being pushed around by unelected, meddlesome bureaucrats who actually put hurdles in the way of international commerce.”

          If Brexit wasn’t about rejecting a meddlesome, unelected bureaucracy, but something else, our historical revisionists will have their work cut out for them.

          One interesting fact I’ve come across about support for Brexit, though not in Reason which adheres firmly to the anti-bureaucracy line, is that support for Brexit was strongest in areas of England which were the least ethnically diverse. Support for Remain increased with ethnic diversity. That’s England. Scotland and Northern Ireland voted to Remain beholden to the Brussels bureaucracy regardless of ethnic composition.

          1. No – nostalgia for Empire and the Anglosphere and the way Britons used to view the Germans and French and such. It is not bureaucrats who are creating the notion of a ‘European’.

            The reason Scotland voted Remain is because they WANT that notion of a European – just as they wanted the term ‘British’ to replace ‘English’ back in the 18th century. As do the generally young and diverse. The reason NIreland voted Remain is because a border brings back the potential ‘Troubles’.

            And I really don’t give a shit what Reason writers or anyone here says. I lived in England for nearly a decade – roughly when they initially joined the EU. I’m very comfortable with what I know about England

            1. “No – nostalgia for Empire and the Anglosphere and the way Britons used to view the Germans and French and such.”

              I’m not sure nostalgia for the empire has much hold over the English imagination. The empire ended pretty much with WWII but still exists in places like the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar. I suppose those who have the most significant ties to the Anglosphere and the rest of the world were more likely to support Remain. Not because they love bureaucracy. Or lining up.

              1. I’m not sure nostalgia for the empire has much hold over the English imagination.

                I would suggest you watch British TV. Here’s 21 TV series that are Edwardian period dramas. And these are basically current ones. Older ones not included have been the obsession of British TV since it started. Masterpiece Theater was originally that same stuff exported to the US market. Agatha Christie still sells more books than the Harry Potter series. Vera Lynn had two top ten albums in the last decade at age 100 – and probably not because the WW2 generation was buying albums.

                1. You only really need to look at the Brexit/Remain support to see the potential ‘nostalgia’ stuff here. Roughly 2/3 of under-35’s voted Remain. A bit under 2/3 of over-55’s voted Brexit.

                  1. Yeah, they’ve really brainwashed the younger generation. We have a similar problem here. Wiping out the left should be of the highest priority globally.

                2. I don’t think that nostalgia for the Edwardian period equals nostalgia for the empire. A lot of these works are entirely set in Britain and the role of the empire is minimal if there at all. The Jeeves and Wooster books by P. G. Wodehouse, for example. As for music, the most influential British musicians are the Beatles, who chose to go to Hamburg, Germany to get their start, with long hair, drugs, and wild antics. I guess you could argue that George Harrison’s flirtation with the sitar, first heard on ‘Norwegian Wood,’ was nostalgia for the empire, but it’s more likely that it was his fascination with Indian religious practices and ideas.

                  The only music that comes to mind that hearkens back to the empire is Victoria, by the kinks. It’s completely tongue in cheek:
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahj-dwaPU1E

                  1. Nostalgia for the Edwardian era is nostalgia for the pre-WW1 world. WW1 is far more significant than WW2 for the culture shock of it all. That’s when England went bankrupt. That’s when England had to rely more on the Anglosphere. WW2 is just the second act of WW1.

                    And yes while rocknroll was generally a youth rebellion (everywhere), just look at Tommy (Who) and The Wall (Pink Floyd). Or the rebellion against the rebellion (Sex Pistols). And as they get older – they get just as nostalgic as the parents they once rebelled against and hated.

                    Is this whole nostalgia-leading-to-Brexit going to decline over time? Yes. Probably sooner than later. As the old who imposed this on the young die – and as people realize once again that nostalgia is no way to build a time machine.

                    1. When the rubber meets the road – there’s a ton of rock n roll stars who accepted the Queen’s honours (MBE, knighthood, etc) – though some (David Bowie, Paul Weller, Keith Richards) did reject it all as a silly reminder of empire.

                  2. Norwegian Wood is also a fine novel by Haruki Murakami. I think his best work is The Wind Up Bird Chronicle. Cats, cooking, dry wells, adolescent girls, magical worlds, and Nomonhan.
                    http://library.lol/fiction/81FCCA0DF2FA01A74FA79D8A292D5869

        2. It was about keeping the Muslim hordes from destroying their country.

      2. The English rejected the Brussels bureaucrats because they favor their own London bureaucrats. The Irish, Scottish, and Welsh, being used to foreign bureaucrats ruling them, preferred the new flavor to the old

        1. “The English rejected the Brussels bureaucrats because they favor their own London bureaucrats.”

          Let the historical revisions begin!

          1. As long as you are the only one who gets to revise, it’s all good, right?

            1. “it’s all good, right?”

              I wouldn’t go that far. Ken’s ideas about the British and what they want are downright moronic.

  12. So the media spends over a year shouting that we’re in a world ending apocalypse due to COVID and is now shocked to see people continuing to embrace the implements of salvation (masks & lockdowns)? We still see daily reports of the delta variant and how it’s going to bring COVID back full force if we don’t obey the mandates. Maybe some responsible journalism on the issue throughout would have prevented this now that the totalitarian measures are past their purported usefulness.

    1. “Maybe some responsible journalism on the issue throughout”

      What is a leppo?

  13. Fortunately, those eager to permanently constrain our lives constitute a minority

    Add “with continued free shit” to every one of those questions polled and see if it’s still a minority.

    1. Carrot and stick; once you’re dependent on the former, you need less of the latter. But it will still be there, good and hard.

  14. /’By contrast, only a quarter of respondents said the orders “wrongly took away people’s personal freedom.”‘

    After five decades of left wing indoctrination of faculty and students at Universities and K-12 schools, it appears that most Americans have little or no respect for (or understanding of) the US Constitution, State Constitutions or personal liberty.

    It appears the carefully coordinated campaign of daily lies and fear mongering by the Chinese Communists, WHO, Fauci, CDC, state and local public health officials/agencies (most of whom are left wing ideologues), which were amplified by left wing mainstream and social media outlets, during the past 18 months, achieved its goal of turning many freedom loving Americans into scared and obedient sheeple.

  15. “Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.” Robert Heinlein

    It’s all about control. Period. Full stop.

    1. One of my favorite quotes. And it encapsulates the “libertarian problem,” namely that those surly curmudgeons don’t vote or run for political office because they don’t want to control people. Which is why libertarians will always lose.

      1. I’ve been kicking exactly your thesis around in my head for about 20 years. It leaves me quite depressed.

        1. As much as I hate the expression, it is what it is.

          I’ve got a few email addresses, one starts with sarcasmic, ends in 966, and is hosted by google.

      2. The only way to ever happen upon a libertarian ruler is in a genetic lottery monarchy. Lots of stupid shit to suffer through to get to a rare gem.

  16. Fortunately, those eager to permanently constrain our lives constitute a minority.

    If only.

  17. The Biggest Lie about Covid by left wing public health officials and their media coconspirators (which is ongoing and causing millions of deaths in poor foreign countries) is their denial of natural immunity (among those who have contracted the virus), which has provided more effective and long lasting immunity than have vaccines.

    Ironically, or not, these daily left wing lies (by omission) about natural immunity (which is a fundamental tenet of immunology and virology) has been part of a very well orchestrated lobbying by Big Pharma.

    All public health experts (and all doctors and nurses) know that people who have already had covid do NOT benefit from vaccines.

    But virtually everyone who knows and understands natural immunity is afraid to tell the truth about it publicly for fear of being demonize, fired, and/or cancelled (just ask Scott Atlas).

    Hundreds of millions of vaccine doses that were wasted on Americans (who already had natural immunity) should have been (and still can be) given to poor people in foreign countries (that have little or no access to vaccines).

    1. It is more of an I don’t know. It is known that post infection there is immunity. There are no real recommendations. I think a single dose around six months would be reasonable if you are in a higher risk category.

      It has not been long enough to really know how this is going to go in the longer term.

      Scott Atlas is an excellent neuroradiologist. He authored the book on the subject. If I had a question about the best MRI imaging protocol for recurrent Glioblastoma I would ask him.

      Since we bought more doses than we can use none of them are wasted if they end up in an arm. We have shipped some to other places but there are logistics involved as they near the expiration date.

      The hardest thing now is overcoming vaccine resistance in the population. You can just walk in to the pharmacy here and get one.

      1. How do you fucking morons not realize the majority of what you call the “vaccine hesitant” are people who had it already and don’t want the vaccine or young people who know they’re at miniscule risk or already had it? The latest polling infact shows its not trump supporters most against the Vax, but young people under 30 across all races and ideologies.

        We’ve got like 150 mil with both shots, almost 350 mil doses administered. And we’ve got nearly 40 million REPORTED cases. Since we know the reported cases are way below the actual cases due to asymptomatic infection and the majority of people exhibiting only mild symptoms and not wanting or even knowing they needed tested. it’s safe to assume there’s at least 2x the cases that have been reported and it’s probably much higher.

        So that puts us at like 150 mil double dosed vaccine, 30-50 mil more at one dose (because we’re at almost 360 million doses total) plus AT LEAST 80 MILLION WITH NATURAL IMMUNITY, that’s 260 million people AT MINIMUM with some form of immunity. That’s also almost 75% of the population AT MINIMUM.

        were already at herd immunity in many places and deaths and hospitalizations continued to decrease everywhere, even the places with outbreaks of delta. In fact the death rate of delta is less than a half of the initial strain, and maybe as low as only a third assuming who’s data you look at.

        So shut the fuck up with your hesitancy talking point. It’s not backed by reality, like most of the leftist bullshit you post.

        1. Well said, well spoken.

    2. I don’t think it’s that as much as just documentation. It’s easy to prove you got the shots. Not so easy to prove you were sick and have natural antibodies. It’s not some nefarious scheme. Just laziness.

      1. I got the results from my antibody test at the pharmacy in my grocery store in 15 minutes.

      2. It’s not at all hard to prove you had covid. Doctor’s note, test results…pretty simple

        1. Tell that to the guy at the DMV.

        2. What if you didn’t go to the doctor, you know, because you didn’t get that sick?

          1. Or you were in a household or event where someone tests positive? They don’t test everyone in that case because they want everyone to Quarantine. So they tell you that you’re “assumed positive”. But even if you ended up developing symptoms you have no way of proving it was covid because they literally tell you not to get tested in these scenarios.

    3. I suspect the main reason the CDC has ignored virus-produced antibodies is because they know their guesstimates for the number of people infected by covid-19 was shit.

      You spent hundreds of comments yapping about a 4.5x multiplier or somesuch between the number of confirmed cases v your ‘this is how many actual’ cases. That multiplier was not based on measurement. It was not based on sampling. It was not based on anything serological at all. It was not based on a model of the covid virus. It was based on a model of the influenza virus where there is no possible serological testing and the disease is much milder and, like coronavirus, there will be some antibodies in the population from ‘common cold coronavirus’ but it is unknown whether that does shit re the covid-19 coronavirus. So yeah – that number is the dumb-as-shit guesstimate.

      But you believed that. And the corollary is that you believed that covid-19 is roughly 85% asymptomatic which is at odds with the actually tested reality of roughly 40% asymptomatic (heavily age-skewed – like everything else we know about the disease). Which can produce the following silly conversation:
      Bro – Hey bud have you had that vaccine?
      Bud – No bro. I’m immune. I dont need it.
      Bro – You’re immune? How do you know?
      Bud – I had the disease
      Bro – You had it? I don’t remember you had that.
      Bud – Oh yeah. I had an asymptomatic case.
      Bro – ?? How do you know you had the disease?
      Bud – Most cases are asymptomatic.
      Bro – ?? So how do you know you had an asymptomatic case?
      Bud – Most cases are asymptomatic.
      [Rinse repeat]

      1. If that’s the conversation going on in your head, you should seek psychiatric help.

        1. Nearly all our problems will be solved when enough people finally resolve to end the left in this country. Our freedom is infinitely more valuable than their lives.

    4. There have been several whoppers about Covid that the left has swallowed completely, which is why they support indefinite lockdowns and are begging the govt. to strip them of their freedoms.

      The vaccine push is all about power, not about health. Conformity, submission, compulsion.

      1. Everything the left does is about more leftist power. If the progs thought they could gain ultimate power forever if they enslaved black peoples again, then they would enslave black people without hesitation.

        Destroy them while we can.

  18. This apparent acceptance of totalitarian control is certainly one reason to be pessimistic that the GOP will regain control of anything in the 2022 elections (or ever again).

    1. The GOP can probably continue successfully on autopilot for the next little while. Beyond that they need to attract more minorities and leftists if they want to remain viable.

  19. What was the survey weighting?
    17% Dr. Fauci’s Staff
    11% Gov. Cuomo Staff
    8% Gov Witmer’s Staff
    33% People making more on unemployment than when they had employment
    31% Other

    1. “33% People making more on unemployment than when they had employment”

      So what do you make of our experiment with UBI? I still see signs everywhere I go begging for help starting at $13/hr. Considering what these 33% have been getting, that’s barely break even.

  20. Don’t know about anyone else, but one of the first things I noticed when the lockdowns started was the birds. They got suddenly loud.

    1. It’s just that noise in your head, screetch.

      1. Says the guy who spends his days thinking up (what he believes are) clever comebacks to myself, jeff, and others.

        In other words: loser.

        1. You posted about your daughter just so people you’ve muted would post a nasty response.

        2. Says the guy who is a loser.

        3. Yeah! He’s mean to your pal Jeffy. Your soulmate.

    2. Dee’s posting frequency did seem to increase.

      1. I see “Dee” referenced a lot. Must be some inside joke amongst the troll community who thinks every handle that says anything remotely libertarian must all be run by the same person. Because there’s only one libertarian person in the entire world.

        1. *cue snarky response from Jesse*

          1. Ankle biter bites ankle.

            1. Indeed. You are quite the ankle biter.

        2. Looks like R Mac is this afternoon’s troll-de-jour. Wonder what petty personal insults lie in those splats of grey. Actually, I don’t.

          Reminds me of when I was watching penguins at the New England Aquarium. All the “rocks” had sprinklers. Wasn’t to keep the birds wet. No. It was because when they shit it’s like a fucking projectile. Big noise, and big splat a couple feet away. The spray of water is to wash off the shit.

          The Must User function is Reason’s sprinkler.

          1. *MUTE*

            fucking autocorrect!

            arg

          2. To bad, you just discovered Cuban sandwiches, and are gonna miss out on making a Cuban pizza by muting me.

        3. Knowing you’ve never watched its always sunny in Philadelphia just makes you look like an even bigger dumb fuck to everyone.

    3. one of the first things I noticed when the lockdowns started was the birds. They got suddenly loud.

      Birds have been on this planet since Archaeopteryx, a hundred and forty million years ago. Doesn’t it seem odd that they’d wait all that time to start a…a war against humanity.

    4. Or was it because it was Spring?

  21. So Loki was right then?

    California ended the mask mandate 4 weeks ago, but I still see 90% of the people wearing masks inside stores that don’t require it anymore, and I still see 50% of people wearing them outside just going for a walk.

    1. Virtue signalling. For some, as they have admitted publicly, they wear a mask so that they’re not mistaken for Republicans, for others it’s a way to signal “I care about other people”. Which is, I guess, pretty much the same thing. “I’m a Democrat, I care.”

      1. Masks are easier donned than a dunce hat.

      2. i think it’s less virtue signaling and mostly that ca is almost all leftists and we know that leftists are morons. this is simply a complete lack of critical thinking skills and raw iq. these people don’t have much of either.

    2. That’s very odd. Denver is full of virtue signallers. The supermarkets are now maybe 15% masked – mostly millennials it looks like.

    3. Masks are largely a political statement now.

    4. You must be bay area or someplace like that.

      Here, almost nobody wears a mask. Outside it’s 1 in 10 at most, and that’s only in crowded places. Walking around my town yesterday I don’t recall anyone in a mask.

      I went to the symphony last night at the outdoor venue and they made all the waiters and such wear masks for some reason, but amongst patrons — who are mostly old, I’m gen X and definitely on the younger slope of the bell curve for subscribers — I probably saw no more than a score of masks in a crowd that had to be 1500 or so.

      Last time I went shopping I think one family had masks on their kids, otherwise just the workers wearing them. At the other store I shop at the workers aren’t required anymore and only about a third of them opt for masks, though who knows next week as it gets less common every time i need to buy eggs.

  22. Smart people knew this was bullshit from the first month or so. Then they went back to normal, and the idiots on the coast and blue states continued to be fearful of their shadows.

    1. They became fearful of others’ shadows.

      1. And are trying to convince or mandate friends and family and people on the internet to be scared of others’ shadows as well.

  23. See, this is what I was trying to warn you all about.

    You ought to have the liberty to wear masks or not wear masks, according to the property owner’s wishes. You ought to have the liberty to practice social distancing or not, again according to the property owner’s wishes. You ought to be free to get, or not get, the vaccine. These things ought not be mandated by the state. Because these things are fundamental to human liberty.

    AT THE SAME TIME, it behooves everyone who takes seriously the concept of human liberty, to take care that they use their liberty wisely, and to encourage everyone else to do so as well. For while individuals ought to have the liberty not to wear masks during a global pandemic, they also ought to be cognizant of the consequences for doing so, and respectful of their neighbors’ wishes and desires. That means, if individuals are asked to make reasonable accommodations for others, such as politely asked to wear masks, or politely encouraged to get a vaccine, they should seriously entertain them and grant them when appropriate, and not refuse them for arbitrary or trivial reasons.

    Because if individuals don’t use their liberty responsibly, and instead treat liberty as if it were an unlimited license for pure narcissism – “I don’t give a shit about you, I can do whatever the hell I want” – then it will only embolden and encourage the Karens out there to run to the state to *force* everyone to use their liberty “responsibly” (as defined by the state). That means mask mandates and, eventually, mandatory vaccination.

    And now we have a sizable portion of the public who fundamentally don’t trust their fellow citizens to exercise their liberty responsibly, and are totally fine with using government coercion to force everyone to obey their idea of “responsible”. Because they have seen – fairly or not – a whole bunch of people out there who never took the pandemic seriously and never gave one moment’s consideration about the health and welfare of others, in the name of ‘liberty’. From their point of view, “liberty” looks a lot like “the freedom to make everyone sick without consequence”. If that is what “liberty” meant to you, would you really be supportive of it?

    So everyone really ought to get vaccinated, if they can. Yes that includes people who have already had COVID. You ought to have the liberty not to get vaccinated if you choose. But if you don’t get vaccinated, and your reason is some bullshit reason like “because I hate Biden” or “because fuck Democrats or fuck Fauci” or “because microchips”, then everytime you do that, you are handing more and more ammunition to the Karens.

    1. And so, if a sizable number of fellow citizens continue to believe that “liberty” means “fuck everyone else and screw you all”, then more and more of them will no longer be supportive of liberty. And they will be more and more supportive of even more draconian measures, like vaccine mandates or worse.

      Those of us who take liberty seriously need to understand that we are the PR team for the concept of liberty. If we give liberty a bad name, we won’t have anyone else to blame but ourselves for tarnishing it and conflating it with arrogance and narcissism.

      1. There is no convincing the irrational using reason. Just keep offering and make it as convenient as possible.

        1. Keep this in mind when you defend any of the generally left-leaning stances you tend to favor. They are held by people who will not be convinced that they are false, if shown facts, presented reasonable arguments, nothing will change their minds.

        2. There are indeed rational arguments to not getting vaccinated. See my response to Jeff below.

          1. Waste of time. Jeffy is irrational and dishonest.

      2. “It’s a free country” has turned into “Who said you could do that?”.

      3. if a sizable number of fellow citizens continue to believe that “liberty” means “fuck everyone else and screw you all”, then more and more of them will no longer be supportive of liberty.

        That’s kind of what I think. I still support liberty generically. But I am now 100% opposed to everything that that crowd is for. They are proven liars and fraudsters now. I have no intention of ever giving them the benefit of the doubt about anything. Ever. And really the assumption going forward is that everything they say will a lie and a fraud so why waste time on anything they advocate.

        1. The Jan 6. attack on the capitol may have done more to harm liberty in the long run than anything the progressives have done.

          1. I agree! The fact that the January 6th attack on the Capitol happened at all indicates how far the United States has fallen. You’re right! That whole horrific set of events at the Capitol this past January did far more damage to our liberty than progressives have ever done.

      4. Frankly, I think that, like other vaccines, the Covid-19 vaccines really SHOULD’VE been made mandatory from the start–meaning that everybody who is able to really should get vaccinated! We’d be much better off as a country by now.

    2. Because if individuals don’t use their liberty responsibly, and instead treat liberty as if it were an unlimited license for pure narcissism – “I don’t give a shit about you, I can do whatever the hell I want” – then it will only embolden and encourage the Karens out there to run to the state to *force* everyone to use their liberty “responsibly” (as defined by the state). That means mask mandates and, eventually, mandatory vaccination.

      It’s more like “I voted for Trump and you’re protecting Ashley Babbit’s murderer because you’re wearing a mask!”

      There’s no thought involved here. It’s all political virtue signalling.

    3. You’re right: the sit-ins disrupting normal people just trying to enjoy their lunch delivered far too much ammunition to the segregationists. Won’t someone please think of the optics!?!?!?!

      The 1/4 of the people in favor of chronic maintenance of emergency measures are just looking for some justification for their pre-existing prejudices. They should be challenged constantly.

      1. You’re just going to make the beatings that much worse if you try to defend yourself against the beatings. Better just to keep compromising away your liberty rather than resist your liberty being taken, if you resist having your liberty being taken step-by-step, they’ll just take it all in one fell swoop.

    4. “Global pandemic” Why not add in “of worldwide proportions” or “affecting the planet?”

    5. Gosh, I’m in full agreement. People so addicted to letting other people making decisions for them.

    6. Really? Appeasement? That’s your stance?

      1. The stance is don’t be an asshole.

        1. If you want to stop being an asshole, eat a bullet.

          1. Flagged and muted.

        2. Fallacious. See my response to Jeff below.

    7. “Yes that includes people who have already had COVID.”

      Why?

      1. Because the preponderance of medical studies show that someone who’s had COVID + been vaccinated is less likely to contract and spread COVID than someone who’s only had COVID.

        e.g.

        https://www.mayoclinic.org/do-i-still-need-to-get-vaccinated-if-ive-already-had-covid-19/vid-20507033

        1. The Cleveland Clinic just published a study concluding there is no benefit to vaccinating an individual with naturally acquired immunity. The study is currently in the peer review process but is easily accessible to review via Google. To my knowledge there are no studies demonstrating definitively that the vaccine produces some form of immunity that is different than or more efficacious than natural immunity. All I’ve seen so far are just “editorials” saying “people who have already had covid should get vaccinated.” Why? No one is offering an acceptable answer. Yes, we do not know how long natural immunity lasts. Likewise, we do not know how long vaccine induced immunity lasts. And even though the presence of antibodies in the bloodstream wanes over time, the presence of bone marrow plasma cells indicates long-lasting natural immunity despite no longer carrying antibodies in the bloodstream. See Nature, May 24, 2021, Turner, et. al. There is simply no reason to get vaccinated if you’ve already had covid, other than because you want to virtue signal and prove to the world that you are a stunning and brave person who cares about all of humanity, and will gladly accept an injection that will give you no benefit.

          1. …and the even larger Israeli study that shows basically the same thing and lots of blood tests for T cell response show’s natural immunity to be slightly better.

          2. Fuck the Cleveland Clinic, then! Not all clinics are good, and neither are all doctors, nurses, and other health-care workers.

        2. A video that starts off with “Our current estimates suggest”? Sorry I follow science, not The Science. There was a link in the roundup that showed 14 people have gotten it twice in this country. Here’s an article about the Cleveland Clinic study:

          https://www.newsmax.com/health/health-news/covid-immunity-vaccination/2021/06/09/id/1024476/

          1. You may be right. 0 repeat cases after 5 months for 1359 unvaccinated previously COVID positive people is strong evidence. Hopefully this work will be published and re-verified by other research groups.

            Still, the risks of getting the vaccine are so tiny and the inconvenience of feeling sick for a day after the 2nd shot is so small compared to all the inconvenience and loss of freedom over the last year I don’t see a valid reason to not get vaccinated if there are plenty of vaccines available.

            As you (or someone else perhaps) suggested above with a limited worldwide supply maybe it would be better to send vaccine doses to other countries than to use them on previously COVID positive people.

            1. Preprint not peer reviewed. Waiting for the actual study to be published in a peer reviewed journal. In general be careful about conclusions from media reports of preprints.

              Of course there is post infection immune response. There is insufficient data to determine longer term effects from the infection and from the vaccine. It simply has not been around long enough.

            2. The study as reported in news outlets only included Cleveland Clinic employees. Big limitation there. Second only 5% had been infected with Covid. Short term. This does not even rise to the level of a decent retrospective cohort study.

              This is not getting to NEJM.

        3. That Mayo link was full of shit…

          “One is that the duration of immunity that you receive after having COVID-19 disease is variable. Our current estimates are that that goes away over about three months. ”

          is utter crap. The bare denial is things like large Israeli study, the Cleveland Clinic study, and dozens of blood work studies. The Mayo link uses lots of words like “can” and “might” etc.

    8. Awesome post. Well said.

      Just because I have the right to be an asshole doesn’t mean I should be one.

      1. You also have the right to fail to distinguish between effective and sterilizing immunity, and you exercise that one well: https://www.verywellhealth.com/covid-19-vaccines-and-sterilizing-immunity-5092148

    9. the best reason to not get the vaccination is because you don’t need it. i won’t ever take it for that exact reason. i won’t take unnecessary drugs into my body. especially an experimental drug that has not been approved.

      1. Will you take it when it is fully approved?

        Any vaccine is preventative. If you are an average American you had those.

        I was an army brat. Can’t count the number of times the pediatrician showed up, checked us out and you got jabbed. Well one thing the army did was take good care of us kiddos.

        1. no i won’t. just like i don’t ever get the flu vaccine. both are unnecessary.

          1. Your choice.

    10. These vaccines do not provide sterilizing immunity. They only, allegedly, mitigate symptoms if one does happen to come in contact with the virus. In other words: you can still catch SARS-CoV-2 and transmit it to others, even if vaccinated. And since the vaccine does not prevent transmission, not getting the vaccinate does not equate to “the freedom to make everyone sick without consequence”. So sure, as you say below, one should not “[conflate liberty] with arrogance and narcissism”. But let’s not mire it in ignorance, either.

      Furthermore, a thought experiment. If asymptomatic transmission _is_ possible, and the vaccines simply mitigate symptoms…then consider this:

      1. You’re vaccinated and you get the virus
      2. You have no symptoms (thanks to the vaccine!), and you incorrectly assume:
      A. You can’t have the virus
      B. Your vaccination is protecting others
      3. You wander about the world, blissfully ignorant that you might be infecting others
      4. “So everyone really ought to get vaccinated, if they can” is therefore misguided.

      1. Another experiment to consider: if vaccines mask your symptoms during infection (which they do), then they therefore also remove an important vector by which you yourself can know you are possibly infected. If your goal is to “not be an asshole”, as someone here is fond of saying, then perhaps being unvaccinated is the proper approach. After all, if you want to “not be asshole”, then you would stay away from people if you present with symptoms. Harder to do so if you’ve taken a vaccine that might be suppressing them.

        1. Vaccines do not mask symptoms.

          Cough medicine does. Or it relieves symptoms if you want to say it that way.

          A vaccine or acquired immunity fights the ability of the pathogen to replicate using your own immune system. That is entirely different.

      2. Think about it this way. The virus only does one thing. It lands on a host and replicates. More virus produced means greater chance of transmission.

        What any vaccine does is produce in the individual a prepared defense. Think of the iron dome anti rockets in Israel. Some will get through but most will not. This gives the virus fewer places to land and less ability to replicate.

        So if you have no symptoms you have less virus. Less virus translates to lower chance of transmission. It also results in less severe disease if it does get through. You are prepared to fight off the invader.

        I know I am restating the obvious. Around here anyone can just walk in to CVS or other places and just get the vaccine. No big deal.

    11. Your post says it all—in a nutshell, chemjeff! Woooo!
      Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

    12. Goddamn you’re a moron. You have no real grasp of science and you’re ultimately just a leftist follower with a truly weak mind.

      Cloth masks are a placebo, the various vaccines have problems associated with them, and are not needed for young people, and even ‘social distancing’ is admittedly bullshit. But hey, you’re a conformist, leftist shitweasel.

  24. Paranoid Karens rarely left their homes before Covid. This poll just shows that they want everyone else to be as miserable as they are. Nothing new here…

  25. i>Polling finds wide support for draconian lockdowns and permanent restrictions.

    The country is full of libertarian-moment cowboys who just want their liberties and to be left alone.

  26. Masks today, masks tomorrow, masks forever.

    1. “… and blimey, if it don’t look like mutton again tomorrer.”

      1. All we need to do is find a *checks notes* voice throwing wizard and we’re back to freedom!

    2. As long as they hide the British teeth.

  27. Now we need the Persian cat dude from Davos to start talking to us about Ze Ggrreat Reset!

  28. Power-Mad disease spreads quickly in a *POWER* infested swamp.

    The major ‘asset’ in such criminal-minded swamps becomes Gun-Force instead of Individual Liberty and Justice allowing/motivating creations, production and innovation.

    And the disease spreads quickly on a multiple compounded scale as all motivation is directed to being criminal (i.e. Power-Mad) and motivation for being productive to society disappears.

  29. didn’t we tell England like 240 years ago we don’t care what they think?

    1. Well Ya; but that was before being against immigrating invasion become a politically correct taboo. So; We don’t care so long as they are there but when they get here illegally all the sudden we care x10.

  30. So way back at the beginning if the pandemic, friend expressed his desire that the lockdowns were permanent. As in, mandatory masks, mandatory social distancing, and mandatory bag your own groceries once you get back to your car.

    He’s a bit of OCD, and has mental issues. So the idea of being permanent isolated from the world other than online connections, would be perfectly fine for him. He is unable to grok the fact that not everyone is like him, and that it’s easier for him to isolate himself voluntarily rather than forcing everyone else to be isolated from him.

    And he’s not alone. The pandemic has given a lot of power to the germaphobes. Finally they can do something about that guy who coughed in public without covering his face! And that’s the core of it I think. The lockdowns address a whole bunch of personal pet peeves, and the peevish dont’ want to relinguish their newfound powers. Add in the Karens and unwillingness of the the general public, media, and government to tell them to shut up and fuck off, and we have all the makings of a real life dystopia.

    1. Speaking of germaphobes, right before the lockdowns my state outlawed plastic bags. They reneged during the lockdown because reusable bags aren’t very sanitary. Depending on the person, some are downright disgusting.

      The ban is back. Plastic bags are gone, and if you want paper it’s gonna cost you $0.05 – $0.08 each. Or bring your own. Which I do, and invariably leave in the car.

      1. At .05 cents a bag, 4 bags (a lot of groceries for me) costs .20. I shop (mostly) at Safeway. They always ask for a dollar donation for the homeless. If I forego that donation (that I used to give), that pays for 20 bags. Boom.

        1. Fuck the homeless. I was homeless. Learned there are three categories: those like myself who were working to save coin for first, last, and deposit; people who are just fucked up and can’t hold a job to provide for themselves; and those who enjoy the lifestyle.
          The first will take care of themselves while the third don’t need help. And I’ve come to believe that those in the middle can’t be helped. You can give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach him to fish and he eats for a lifetime. If he tells you to get fucked when you offer him a fish or a fishing pole, then fuck him if he starves to death.

          1. If you have a car or truck, you are never homeless.

            1. I’m gonna be seeing these guys in October with $parky.

              He’s old-school libertarian from the board here, like before the Trump trolls polluted the place.

              Pretty sure he likes Ke$ha. Nobody’s perfect.

              I’m sure that tune will be in the encore.

              1. Yeah, you hate anyone who is against your master Biden.

    2. “As in, mandatory masks,”

      I can see why mask wearing has become popular. It gives the wearer the freedom of anonymity and psychological distance from the world without regard to medical issues, much like the Japanese who have been wearing surgical masks long before covid struck. I predict mask wearing in the US will become a permanent feature of the urban landscape. Not necessarily just to cope with covid and its inevitable successors, but for the psychological and social distance it provides the wearer.

      1. Not necessarily just to cope with covid and its inevitable successors, but for the psychological and social distance it provides the wearer.

        The Hijab of the secular west.

        1. Niqab is what they call it. But for a feeling of security and secular social and psychological distancing rather than as an expression of religious faith. Japan has long been using surgical masks for similar reasons. It’s nothing to do with Islam.

          1. If you thought I was making a statement about Islam, you kind of missed my point.

            1. I thought your point was that any westerner who wears a surgical mask is a wannabe Muslim, a supporter of sharia law, Barack Hussein Obama, as well as a communist.

              1. No, the point of my comment alluded to the interviews of some Muslim women in Islamic countries who claimed that in addition to the religious diktats, the Hijab (and technically the Burka) gave them the sense of psychological security and social distance it provides the wearer– keeping them safe from the prying eyes of the male gaze.

                1. That was kind of my point, as well. Only Westerners and surgical masks, and how it’s possible that they will become a permanent part of the urban landscape, regardless of any medical consideration, as they are in Japan.

                  1. LOL no they aren’t. There is a misconception that everyone wears masks in Asia during flu season. SOME do. Believe it or not, Asians aren’t all rule-following automatons.

                    1. “SOME do.”

                      Some wear masks for non-medical reasons. And, sadly, Asians are nothing if not rule following automatons. Just like non Asians.

  31. They are free to stay in their homes. I will remain free to go on living life as dangerous as it may be.

    Live as a goldfish in a bowl or soar free like and eagle. To each his own.

    1. They are free to stay in their homes. I will remain free to go on living life as dangerous as it may be.

      Not if they have anything to say about it.

  32. there were many unfortunate outcomes from the pandemic…. and this might be the worst… comfort with government overreach is a bad outcome.

    but it is less that there are people who are so willing to give up freedom, and more about the way politics and tribalism seems to lead just about everyone to one flavor of stupid or the other. the mandates, the lock downs, telling people to wear masks when outside and alone, the oppressive removal of rights whether it made sense or not. you have a large group of people who were ok with it, and embedded that feeling into their political identities. the reason there are so many willing to put up with this garbage for longer is because it became a political question and part of a political identity.

    and, reflexively, you have the people who refuse to do anything voluntarily, whether it made sense or not. the people who wanted packed mega churches…. the people who would yell at store clerks trying to enforce the mask policy that a store put in place for their property…. the people who will never get vaccinated… the people who care more about calling it the “china virus” than anything else. i appreciate that these people are of the same mind as me that the government never should have used it’s force to mandate anything, but i am abhorred by their selfish stupidity and wanton lack of any personal responsibility.

    1. That’s what I think really happened in Georgia during the 2020 election and the Senate runoffs. Democrats really did win on the strength of first-time voters and normal urban growth. All it really proved was too many people actually choose to depend on government.

  33. Why would ANYBODY believe the pollsters at this point? If the last 5 or 6 years have taught us anything at all, it is that “polling” is used to shape opinion, not to gauge it.

    1. You’re exactly right. In fact follow the links and read the poll questions. They basically shoehorn people into supporting restrictions; there is no option for “End all restrictions on July 19th.”

    2. Yes, because why else would there be so many for-profit polling firms which manage to always stay busy?

  34. Pardon me, But do you have a radar detector?
    I bloody loved the “Pandemic”. From April 2020 thru March 2021, I could run my Q5 up to the fuel cutoff at 130 mph! I never has such fun…. It wasn’t better than sex, but if I could’ve at 130, it would have been the ultimate! The only thing I regret is that I had “H” rated tires (130 mph max) instead of “V” rated (149 MPH max). But I’ve learned my lesson, next tire set is Michelin “V-plus”… A final additional point, I did not wear a mask while driving, for that is like wearing a condom when you are sleeping alone…. Wake up Millennials, life is wonderful!
    Cheers, John

    1. I thought you died in a Spanish prison week before last.

      1. That is what they want you to think happened.

        But we know they don’t know what we know they know.

  35. Those are some sad and scary numbers, but unfortunately, not particularly surprising.

  36. Ipsos Mori means “They die” in Latin. They’ve been part of the fearmongering apparatus from the beginning.

  37. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/12/biden-covid-vaccination-campaign-499278

    “Biden allied groups, including the Democratic National Committee, are also planning to engage fact-checkers more aggressively and work with SMS carriers to dispel misinformation about vaccines that is sent over social media and text messages.”

    1. ‘Fact checkers’………..

      1. It is no longer surprising to me that the right takes such a dim view of “fact checking” as an organized part of public policy debate and journalism. When they complain about fact checking groups, like Politifact or Annenberg’s Fact Check being liberal and doing analysis rather than pure fact checking, there could be conservative-leaning fact checking groups to counter that. Nothing stops Fox News or any other conservative media outlets or groups from doing what the well-known organizations do without the supposed liberal bias.

        But facts aren’t what interest them. Narratives are what they want, and objective facts get in the way of framing events in a partisan way.

  38. This article is grotesquely inaccurate to the point that it is highly offense to those of us who are tired of this global hostage situation. The global crime syndicate, otherwise known as our “global elites,” need to kick rocks and remember there’s more of us than there are them, and they aren’t going to buffalo everyone like they think they are. I am so proud to see those in my everyday life opening their eyes to see the truth of what’s happening here. 9 out of 10 people I know have soured opinions of our government and other institutions of power that traditionally have blindly been followed up to this point. They just want to be officially open about the prison planet merely BECAUSE people are seeing past the smoke and mirrors-and the shepherds are starting to fear their own sheep. The average person sees the hand that truly sows the chaos and discord.

  39. Many in Australia are refusing the vaccine in order to keep Australia closed to tourists and immigrants. They are perfectly happy for the country to shut out the rest of the world. This is not about protection from the virus. It’s an opportunity to give vent to xenophobia. This virus has brought out the very worst in people.

    1. Less collateral damage for when China rolls in.

    2. Like every other country, Australia should purge its leftists.

      1. Let the purging of Australia begin!

  40. I have serious doubts about this polling data.

  41. Overall, despite high-profile protests and criticism by public health experts concerned that more harm than good was done by draconian limits on human life that “had no detectable health benefits” in the words of University of Chicago researchers…

    Tuccile is giving the wrong impression about what that paper said. He makes it sound like people not going out in crowded public places (“draconian limits on human life”) is what “had no detectable health benefits”. That is not at all what that paper was saying. Follow his link yourself, and you’ll see what I mean:

    “To be clear, our findings do not mean that sheltering in place and social distancing behaviors had no effect on the disease. Indeed, the health benefits of SIP orders were likely limited because many people were already social distancing before the introduction of SIP orders, and others failed to comply with SIP orders in a highly politicized pandemic. Our results also do not mean that other government actions, such as emergency declarations or public health advisories, had no effect, nor do they mean that future SIP orders could not be more effective.”

    1. You cheated and read the paper.

      1. I actually didn’t read the whole thing. I just found what I quoted in the introduction and abstract. But yes, I guess even that much is cheating. I’m supposed to just assume that the paper says what Tuccille wants it to say, rather than what it does say.

  42. Do People Want Their Pre-Pandemic Freedom Back?

    Most people didn’t believe in freedom since long before the WuFlu was a glint in Batwoman’s eye.

    As just one example among many, people surveyed on the streets of the U.S.in the 1950s were asked to read The Bill of Rights and actually thought it was a Communist document.

    1. Yes, I remember that informal street experiment. The forced indoctrination/programing system (public ed) had done its job.
      On the other hand, at 13 I was politically curious, got no answers on communism, so I went to the library and checked out “The Communist Manifesto”. My dad caught me reading, gave me books on Marx and Engles. He told me to read them in secret and tell no one. Getting only the sales pitch for socialism, not capitalism, I choose capitalism. My father was angry and told me I HAD to be a communist, because we were a low income family.

  43. I want my pre-pandemic, pre-9/11, pre-ValueJet, Cold-War “this is the difference between us and the Soviets”, freedom back. If I were older and had experienced more, I’d want that back too!

    1. Freedom is most needed i hope the pandemic ends early Mp3twist

  44. Well constructed article though… The pandemic really showed that people can be restrained from some things generally.

  45. The pandemic really showed that people can be restrained from anything, just funny as it happened. Corejamz

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