Voting Rights

Georgia Republicans Aim To Restrict Voting by Mail

The state Senate approved some cynical changes to Georgia's absentee ballot laws under the guise of securing future elections from fraud that no one seems to be able to find.

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It's been more than four months since the 2020 election and Georgia's Republican-run state government has still not found any evidence of widespread voter fraud that could have unfairly tipped the state to President Joe Biden.

But that apparently isn't going to stop Republicans in the state legislature from making some cynical changes to Georgia's absentee ballot laws under the guise of securing future elections—securing them from the supposed fraud that they still can't find any evidence of.

The state Senate on Monday approved a bill limiting when Georgians can use no-excuse absentee voting—that is, voting by mail without having to first provide the state with a reason why you can't show up at the polls. That's the method of voting that more than 1.3 million of the state's residents used in last year's election, and which has been widely credited by state officials for helping boost Georgia's turnout to record high levels.

Under the terms of S.B. 241, residents will be allowed to vote by mail only if they are physically absent from their districts on Election Day, are physically disabled, are members of the military, or are celebrating a religious holiday. Only one group of people is still allowed to vote by mail for any reason: residents over age 65.

In other words, a demographic that is reliably Republican would still have access to no-excuse absentee balloting. Most everyone else would not.

In much the same way that Donald Trump's allegations of voter fraud in the wake of the election did, the debate over the new absentee voting bill has divided Republicans in Georgia. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan, who normally presides over the state Senate, handed off the gavel and left the chamber in protest when S.B. 241 was brought to the floor for a vote. Several other Republican senators refused to participate in the debate, the paper notes, but those abstentions were not enough to stop the bill from passing, 29-20.

Duncan has been a sharp critic of Trump supporters' baseless claims of widespread election fraud. He has also defended Gov. Brian Kemp and Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, both of whom have been on the receiving end of Trumpian vitriol since November merely because they've acknowledged the reality of Biden's victory.

Meanwhile, the Senate bill is moving to the state House, which has already passed a separate piece of legislation aimed at limiting the number of ballot drop-boxes that counties may use and restricting the time period during which voters may request absentee ballots. The state's legislative session ends on March 31.

Kemp has not yet indicated if he would sign either bill. In a statement to CNN on Monday, Kemp's office said the governor wants to "ensure Georgia's elections are secure, accessible, and fair—and that it must be easy to vote and hard to cheat in Georgia."

Of course, Kemp is also looking ahead to a potential re-election campaign next year—and the prospect of Trump campaigning against him, something the former president has vowed to do.

Such is the predicament Republican politicians now face, even in places, like Georgia, where expanded absentee voting was originally a Republican-backed idea. Loyalty to Trump means disregarding the evidence that absentee voting is secure and nonpartisan. It also means pushing to erode voting rights in order to stop supposedly widespread fraud that, beyond a few isolated incidents, no one seems to be able to actually find.

NEXT: No, a Potential Recall of California Gov. Gavin Newsom Is Not a Threat to Democracy

Voting Rights Elections Voting Campaigns/Elections Election 2020 Donald Trump Georgia State Governments

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423 responses to “Georgia Republicans Aim To Restrict Voting by Mail

  1. Is the claim “voter fraud doesn’t happen” falsifiable? If it were happening, how would you know?

    1. “Is the claim ‘voter fraud doesn’t happen’ falsifiable?”

      Which is one of the big reasons nobody claims there is no voter fraud at all.

      1. “nobody claims there is no voter fraud at all.”

        “fraud that no one seems to be able to find.”

        “securing them from the supposed fraud that they still can’t find any evidence of.”

        You stupid slut.

        1. Voter fraud is to be blamed on the Lizard People! It is known!

          We need to listen, and listen GOOD, to the AMPHIBIAN PEOPLE instead!

          Let me give you a VERY prominent Amphibian Person with the CORRECT thoughts and attitudes! I give you Pepe the Amphibian Person, stolen-IP-4Chan-Frog! Racist frog, NAZI frog, yaya-yada!
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepe_the_Frog

          1. flagged as off topic

            1. Sarcasmic should be conveniently arriving in 3 … 2 … 1 …

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              (You are now hereby invited over to My Mansion, My Charles Mansion, to dine on my pants! Yer welcome!)

              1. flagged as spam

                1. Trumpinstaters don’t know that the shat in my pants is edible. Viewers to Reason KNOW that copraphilia is good and true and right and contributes to a healthy diet… Nards the Nadless Nazi thinks that this is disgusting but does not THINK that many animals do this too!

          2. Tell us about the wonderful “Shaming Wand.” Would you, Melvin? Please!! Pleeeeaaaaseee!!

            1. Here you go! ALL about the shaming wand!!! Read and heed!

              http://www.churchofsqrls.com/sonograms/

              1. Tell us about food irradiation!! Please, Melvin!! Tell us!! PLEAAASSEEEE!!

                1. APPOSTASY sample email #13:

                  Hi ECAT or ECAT fan or ECAT Skeptic, (Sorry, go find your email addresses or discussion groups yourselves),

                  Has anyone considered making a home-use version of the ECAT that could be used as a food irradiator? Longer version/suggestion: The ECAT, by all appearances, derives most of the heat energy produced, by converting (in its shielding) gamma rays (high-energy electromagnetic rays, AKA ionizing radiation that is eminently suitable for food irradiation) into heat. In the USA, if you did such a thing (make a food irradiator), the FDA (a sub-division of Government Almighty) can be relied upon to make you study such a device for a few decades, and spend millions of dollars, to prove it to be safe, under all conceivable circumstances, and in all parallel universes that MIGHT possibly exist. So my suggestion to you, if you should chose to make a food irradiator version, is to market it to a burgeoning new market called Scienfoology. See http://www.churchofSQRLS.com , where you can see details about how Scienfoologists use technologies, in the name of RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, on their EFFIGIES rather than on themselves, and so therefor escape Government Almighty regulation. Advertise your food irradiator to be used, NOT for foods for human consumption, but for use ONLY for feeding irradiated foods to EFFIGIES. This is a VERY convenient escape from Government Almighty, for those greedy capitalists who might wish to combine the heat generation capabilities, plus the raw, cootie-organisms-killing (think salmonella, E-coli, etc.) powers of gamma radiation, into a VERY convenient (and disease-defeating) home cooking device!

                  Thanks! -SQRLSY One

                  1. flagged as insane

                    1. This Melvin Martin fella’ really is off his rocker, in a clinical way.

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                    1. She don’t need to wear that dress tonight.

                    2. OOOOOOoooooOOoooooooffff.

                      Nothing on that one, huh? Too soon, eh, you worthless puddle of cum?

                  3. On other matters concerning ionizing radiation…

                    “Helminthic therapy” is of interest to me; so is “radiation hormesis”.

                    On radioactive wastes (ionizing radiation), Google “radiation hormesis”, and see USA government study of the Taiwan thing (accidental experiment on humans) at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2477708/ … Low-dose radioactivity is actually GOOD for you! Seriously!!!

                    1. On “helminthic therapy”, AKA gut parasite worms are GOOD for you, too, see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20054982 (USA government again) or others …
                      Well anyway, WHAT is a summary of what I am saying? I thought I heard you asking about that, through my tri-cornered aluminum-foil hat, as I am sitting here…

                      HERE is your summary: Holyweird is WAY off base, with their horror movies! A Giant Gut-Parasitical Radioactive Teenage Mutant Ninja Tapeworm would be GOOD for us!!! Bring it ON, ah says!!!

                      (You conservaturds can’t TOUCH me, for my smarts, OR my humor, CAN you, assholes?!?!?)

                    2. ROXXAAAAAAAAAANNNEE!!

          3. There’s also Tatsuya Ishida at Sinfest. The RED hat drones and BLUE hat drones reprogram simple minds into one-dementional binarism. Then there’s a Red Dot, a line and a Blue Dot. Nothing else, you’re either fer or agin. Certainly there’s no Nolan chart or two-dimensional plane. Three-dimensional reality or 4-dimensional spacetime are heresies punishable by impalement and burning at the stake, like Beatles albums or dirty books. Harrumph.

            1. Does anyone still read Sinfest?

              1. I didn’t know it was even still going.

      2. “Which is one of the big reasons nobody claims there is no voter fraud at all.”

        I’ve come across plenty of people who claimed there was no voter fraud at all. These same people assume everyone else is stupid enough to believe that you actually can prove a negative.

    2. Steven Crowder went to voter addresses in Nevada and they were alleyways and empty parking lots. I think that’s pretty good proof.

      1. But I have a right to vote by mail with out any signature checks in such a manner that people can collect mail in ballots and fill them out en masse. It’s in the Constitution.

  2. You don’t need to have evidence of fraud to ensure that fraud will not happen. What does Reason have against preventing fraud in elections.

    1. The reason ‘Reason’ is opposed to the legislation proposed by the Republican majority is . . . that it was proposed by Republicans.

      1. Also, many of these fake libertarian assholes are illegally voting in multiple jurisdictions themselves. It’s the reason why Goth Fonzie rather ludicrously claims to live in both Washington D.C. and Oxford, Ohio.

    2. No wide spread significant fraud occurs. There are numerous safeguards built into the system. The goal here is not to prevent fraud but to make voting harder, to discourage people from voting. In particular voters in demographics that don’t vote for your candidate.

      1. False assertion until you point to the actual audits proving such. Instead you will point to convictions that are rarely pursued as AGs put very few resources into investigating fraud on elections.

        Your allegations that people are discouraged from voting are also false as proven in a Florida a few years back where the plaintiff couldn’t find a person actually harmed by the voting laws during their lawsuit.

        You’re not a libertarian, you just blindly repeat DNC talking points.

        1. See https://reason.com/2020/01/01/trumps-inartful-dodges/#comment-8068520 , where
          Der JesseBahnFuhrer says, of Trump, “He is not constitutionally bound on any actions he performed.”

          Hey JesseBahnFuhrer! Is this statement of yours, above, now applicable to Biden? Or is only Dear Leader Der TrumpfenFuhrer qualified to be our dictator? If so, why?

      2. And please explain to us all how this bill makes voting harder. You actually have to pry your fat ass off the couch? Maybe we should issue everyone a driver’s license through the mail. It’s to difficult to wait in line at the DMV. The can send you the test for you to complete at your leisure at your kitchen table.

      3. Here’s the thing, retard. I’ve voted absentee almost my entire adult life. It’s not that fucking hard to request an absentee ballot, especially in the internet age. It’s not that fucking hard to fill out an absentee ballot and put it in the mail by the deadline. Stop acting like it’s some monumental task. It’s easier than going to the DMV (which, incidentally, is not that fucking hard.)

        The one election I did vote in person, I was an hourly employee who didn’t own a car. I walked to my polling place and stood in line for twenty minutes, voted, and then got on the bus and went to work. It wasn’t that fucking hard. I managed to do it because it was important to me and made it a priority.

        All these assholes crying about how HAAAAAAARD it is to vote can manage to find the time and ability to do countless other things with their time, so voting just isn’t a priority for them, or they’d find the time to do it. That’s not an excuse to toss ballot integrity to the wind, just to make it easier for people who don’t care enough to do it in the first place.

      4. Is it really too much trouble? There are enough mail-ins for people overseas, the disabled, and the military. The terminally lazy denizens of the ghetto should not get a pass. When I lived in the ghetto, the polls were everywhere.
        If you have had to engage in business through the mail with the US government you would no full well that our mail system is a disgrace. Their incompetence is legendary and much of it has to be run by contractors. U.S. Mail workers themselves are Union and heavily Democrat. Don’t try to tell me that they would not engage in corruption. They are corruption.

      5. Numerous safeguards. Like what? Signature matching? Gone. Covid changes everything! Voter ID? It’s so haaaarrd! Poor people are incapable of doing such tasks as getting an ID, especially those of color. They can’t help themselves, the poor things. How racist can you get?

      6. You’re one of those racists who thinks that black people are too stupid to get ID to vote, thus are “disenfranchised.”

    3. The only evidence of fraud they will accept are convictions. Of course as very few AGs actually investigate fraud, the conviction numbers remain low. By this logic jay walking is also an event that almost never occurs as cops simply don’t arrest the vast majority of jay walkers.

      There is also the point that reason was steadfastly refusing to allow for any audit of elections last year claiming no fraud at all, then very little fraud. These assertions without evidence as no true audits were ongoing. Pennsylvania destroyed envelopes they were required to keep by law for 2 years. Georgia admits they had a significant number of double voters they declined to prosecute. NYPost had an exclusive on how fixers manipulate mail in ballots with multiple indictments this year involving mail in balloting.

      Reason refuses to acknowledge the problem.

      1. lot of that going around lately

        AGs have way too much discretion

        can’t have rule of law for just one party
        ——-
        KGW found 31 of 90 protest cases have been dismissed by the U.S. Department of Justice, despite warnings there would be “consequences for acts of violence.”

        PORTLAND, Ore. — Federal prosecutors have dismissed more than one-third of cases stemming from last summer’s violent protests in downtown Portland, when protesters clashed with federal agents. KGW reviewed federal court records and found 31 of the 90 protest cases have been dismissed by the U.S. Department of Justice, including a mix of misdemeanor and felony charges.

        Some of the most serious charges dropped include four defendants charged with assaulting a federal officer, which is a felony. More than half of the dropped charges were “dismissed with prejudice,” which several former federal prosecutors described as extremely rare. “Dismissed with prejudice” means the case can’t be brought back to court.

  3. >>from fraud that no one seems to be able to find.

    Lisa I want to buy your rock.

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  4. “But that apparently isn’t going to stop Republicans in the state legislature from making some cynical changes to Georgia’s absentee ballot laws under the guise of securing future elections—securing them from the supposed fraud that they still can’t find any evidence of.”

    Too cute by half.

    “Only one group of people is still allowed to vote by mail for any reason: residents over age 65. In other words, a demographic that is reliably Republican would still have access to no-excuse absentee balloting. Most everyone else would not.”

    Well, if they are reliably Republican, why do you care how they vote? “Ughhh …. old white geezers!” Oh, that’s why.

    We get it, Reason.

    1. residents over age 65. In other words, a demographic that is reliably Republican”

      do all the races die at 64 or does everyone suddenly switch to republican? This will be news to my relatives.

      1. They all died of COVID due to a dearth of equity, or something.

      2. I have friends and family that are Democrats in their 60s. Are you telling me that after a lifelong love affair with the Democrats they are going to switch to being Republicans at 65? So, will they stop ranting about Trump and switch to ranting about Biden, Harris, and Pelosi?

        1. ha Trump hasn’t been President for months, what are they still
          yelling about?

          relatively few people permanently switch their allegiance, but the trend of those who do is generally toward the GOP

          otoh swing voters do it constantly

          and there are more of them than anyone else

          overall party affiliation is weaker now than in decades

      3. I’ve long suspected that first-time voters 30ish and above skew heavily Republican. I really don’t think party changes happen that frequently, though Obama’s maladministration convinced my crotchety Jewish grandmother that sixty years was enough.

      4. I guess they figure that if you are still breathing at 65, you vote Republican. It’s pretty much a given that if you are NOT still breathing, you vote straight Democrat.

    2. That’s just it. Voting by mail is so great, except when it’s supposedly Republicans doing it. Then it’s bad, for some reason.

      1. No the point is everyone should have right to vote by mail, not just groups that tend to vote one way.

  5. The Reasonoids don’t want to go back to having honest elections where people actually have to show up at the poll, provide proof that they are who they say they are and that they live in the district, and get their name checked off so they can only vote one time, unless they can demonstrate ahead of time some legitimate reason for not being able to vote in person.

    You don’t have to be a genius to figure out they hate the idea of election integrity.

    1. Election integrity is “cynical” and “erodes voting rights.” However, no rules, no integrity, no security, no verification and, invariably, “no proof of fraud” is, apparently, the gold standard of electoral irreproachability.

      This coming from the man that likely “strategically and reluctantly” voted for Biden, while paying lip service to voting for Jo Jorgensen — but only if Virginia was clinched for Team Blue; you know, because his libertarian principles obviously mean so much to him.

      1. However, no rules, no integrity, no security, no verification and, invariably, “no proof of fraud” is, apparently, the gold standard of electoral irreproachability.

        That’s called fortifying an election.

        sin,
        Time Magazine

      2. If all crime were legalized, there would be no crime.

    2. Open wider, clingers.

      Your betters have already resumed shoving progress down your whining, impotent, bigoted, right-wing throats.

      You don’t have to like it. You can complain about it as much as you like. But you will comply with the preferences of better Americans.

      1. Nah. They’ll probably just shoot you first and bury you upside down without a headstone.

      2. ugh your rape fantasies are gross

      3. I think this guy lost one of his sickly, weak relatives to the coof and is now permanently triggered and butthurt by anyone who isn’t scare of the rona. 😀

        I’m sorry for your pain, Clingland. Or, actually, no I’m not. 😀

        1. I’m not sure I’ve seen much of a change in his useless blathering during the Covid times. Maybe I’ve become naturally immune.

      4. It is always good to see Kirkland remind us that some folks are very biased and not open to facts or new data once their minds have been polluted with half truths told to deceive.

        Some think dividing us by race, culture and politics is the way to achieve unity. Kirkland is such a person.

        Kirkland is one who thinks the only way to deal with racism is more racism.

        Not knowing any of the actual reasons his opposition has for their policy preferences , Kirkland can make up stuff to fortify his world view with no facts or real data when accusing others of thoughts he no doubt secretly harbors.

        Comply is a favorite word of Fascist and all tyrants. Good to see whom your philosophy actually supports!

      5. “Progressives” are not the “betters” of anybody with an IQ above room temperature.

    3. They hate the idea of eligible voters deciding the outcome of an election because that’s a threat to their democracy. That’s why they seek to disenfranchise them, to Fortify Democracy so that the Proper Outcome is assured.

      1. This.

    4. I have zero problem of allowing drop off ballots for 3 weeks where the clerk can check the ID of the person dropping off their ballot. Oddly Reason would be against the above scenario.

      1. LMAO. I was making this argument earlier at work. We here in Georgia have a very decent Voter Page where we can logon to verify still eligible, location, etc. They also have a sample ballot that you can preview. Why can I not just fill that ballot and then on election day, walk it up, show my ID and go? For security purposes, I propose they could even add a bar or QR code on the print out.

  6. easy to vote and hard to cheat

    That is a good line. I agree completely. Too many on Team Blue are too focused on the first phrase, and too many on Team Red are too focused on the second phrase.

    It behooves those who want to expand voting to explain how it will remain secure.

    And it behooves those who want to make voting more secure, by restricting less-secure options, how they will enable those otherwise legitimate voters to vote in a narrowed field of more-secure options.

    1. Why should it be easier to vote? Seriously? Why should it be easier for people who can’t be bothered to actually find out how government operates and what policies candidates are likely to back to vote? Those are the people who aren’t voting. We don’t need to encourage them to vote just because they can. If they don’t care enough to make an effort, why encourage them to participate?

      1. Because chemical burns is full of shit and understands full-well that it is a zero sum game. Anything that makes voting more secure, necessarily makes it harder to vote. Anything that it easier to vote, necessarily makes voting less secure. What he really wants is completely unrestricted voting and no security.

        1. Oh just shut up.

          1. He trying to silence his opponents this is how leftists think

          2. Tell me I’m wrong. Go ahead. Tell me you think it’s not zero sum. I’d love to hear this.

            1. Maybe when you rescind your ridiculous strawmen and juvenile insults, and come prepared to discuss things like an adult.

              1. Tell us again how legalizing vote-by-text is a great idea. That’s not a strawman. That’s an actual position you took earlier today.

                1. no no he can shit all over Dillinger but you have to be A priest (a real one not the anime one that loser aspires to be)

                2. He did not. You (or some other disingenuous debater) made up the hypothetical, and chemjeff said, “Sure why not, IF YOU CAN MAKE IT SECURE.” Which was a HUGE disclaimer to attach to his answer.

                  1. But I thought making voting secure is “disenfranchisement”?

                  2. “He did not.”

                    Ok let’s look

                    “chemjeff said, “Sure why not, ”

                    So you did take that position, and you’re lying. But for some reason you think being asked about it means you didn’t take that position.

                  3. Actually I didn’t even say that. I said that I would be willing to consider it if it was sufficiently secure. I never said that I thought it was a “great idea”.

                    1. Define “sufficiently secure.”

                3. Tell us again how legalizing vote-by-text is a great idea.

                  I did not say legalizing vote-by-text is a great idea. That is you lying.

                  And see here you go. The price of having a conversation with you is, evidently, juvenile insults, strawmen, and outright lies about what I said. So why should I bother?

                  1. Why wouldn’t it be a great idea? It is easy and accessible. What’s the problem, bub? Isn’t that exactly what you want? The easiest means of voting possible, for the most people imaginable? Right? I’m confused. This is what you want, isn’t it? No more lines. What’s wrong?

                    1. And now you’re just baiting me. Back on the flag list you go.

                    2. LOL

                      Ok, sarc.

              2. so you’re not capable of doing it and need an excuse is what you’re saying

          3. Or what, you’ll have the elites change his vote for him?

      2. Did you see how long the lines to vote are in some areas of Georgia? They have a real problem with not providing sufficient polling place access.

        1. Long lines? Quick! Get rid of all the voting laws! That’ll shorten the lines ….

          1. It’s so weird and such a strange coincidence that he and Jeff always show up in the same place at the same time

          2. Long lines? Please…

            NEW ORLEANS, Oct 7 2012 (Reuters) – Thousands of Venezuelans who live in the United States crowded outside a New Orleans convention center on Sunday to cast ballots in Venezuela’s presidential election, with many hoping their vote will help drive President Hugo Chavez from power.

            Many flew to New Orleans on charter and commercial flights or rode for hours in caravans of buses and cars, forced to travel at their own expense after Chavez closed Venezuela’s consulate in Miami earlier this year.

            Some spent hundreds of dollars to fly. Others endured a 16-hour one-way bus ride to vote in what polls suggest may be the opposition’s strongest challenge yet to Chavez’s 14-year rule.

            “I’m tired but euphoric,” said Dafne Blanco, a 39-year-old insurance agent from Miami who traveled by bus. “This our chance to change the direction of Venezuela.”

            A long line of Venezuelans stretched several blocks outside a voting center set up in New Orleans near the consulate.

            Many sang the Venezuelan national anthem and waved the country’s flag as they waited. Cheers erupted each time a bus carrying voters arrived.

            Carolina Norgaard stood in line for 3 1/2 hours and likely had another hour to go before casting her vote but said the wait was worth it. “Today is the day we make the most important decision for our country,” she said.

            Middle- and upper-class Venezuelans, worried about rising crime and shrinking economic opportunities at home, have led an exodus of Venezuelan professionals in recent years.

            According to a 2010 U.S. Census, around 215,000 Venezuelans live in the United States, an increase from 91,000 in 2000. A large number live in and around Miami, home to an expatriate community that is overwhelmingly opposed to Chavez.

            In Venezuela’s last presidential election in 2006, Chavez won just 2 percent of the nearly 10,799 votes cast by Venezuelans in Miami, according to elections officials.

            Chavez ordered the closure of Venezuela’s Miami consulate after the U.S. government expelled the top Venezuelan diplomat in the city amid allegations she discussed potential cyber-attacks against the United States with Iranian and Cuban diplomats. Chavez denied the charges.

            His decision, however, meant 20,000 Venezuelan registered voters living in Florida, North Carolina, Georgia and South Carolina would have to travel on their own to New Orleans to the next closest consulate.

            Many Miami-based Venezuelans opposed to Chavez responded by arranging charter flights and buses to mobilize voters.

            https://www.reuters.com/article/venezuela-election-expats-idCNL1E8L72MR20121007

        2. an answer to a question he didn’t ask

        3. I’ve seen longer lines at the Starbucks. If they cared, they will wait in it.

          1. How long would the lines have to be before you’d think there was a problem? 3 hours? 6 hours? 9 hours?

            There is *some* limit to how onerous the voting process should be before it turns into a type of disenfranchisement.

            1. Democrat areas hardest hit.

              I’ve never waited more than 15 minutes to vote in my life.

              Maybe they should vote for a different county SOE? I get the idea that blues are making in person voting miserable ON PURPOSE.

              1. Hell you said no waiting more than 15 min.
                How about bring your soc# plus a drivers license plus a W-2 form otherwise you dont vote!!

            2. Georgia has in-person early voting for 3+ weeks before election day (e.g., started 12 Oct 2020), with many sites open on weekends. There is amble opportunity to vote in person, reducing very much the need for excuse-free absentee voting.

              Seemingly, only Gwinnett and Fulton counties, both Democrat strongholds, both hotbeds of federal corruption probes and convictions, ever seem to have problems with long lines during early voting and Election Day voting. “Long lines” in other counties tend to be about 20 minute waits on bad days/popular times.

              1. Ample, not amble. ARGH. Why is there no edit button?

            3. Democrat areas make those decisions. You can only blame local election boards.

        4. Sounds like a local thing.

      3. Well, the unstated assumption there is that nonvoters are just too lazy or apathetic to vote. It could also be the case that some potential voters want to vote but they cannot do so because, for example, the lines are too long. And voting *is* a constitutional right, the government should try to preserve that right as best as it can.

        1. Absentee Balloting solved that already.

          1. Is “I have a full time job and I cannot wait all day in a line while also going to work and tending to my family” one of the state-approved excuses for obtaining an absentee ballot?

            1. Nope. It should be.

            2. In Chicago, the non-taxpayers outnumber the taxpayers in some areas. This is how Jessie Jackson Jr was re-elected when he had already been convicted of stealing from the taxpayers and was headed to prison. The non-taxpayers don’t care if their politicians are stealing from the taxpayers nor do they care that he will be in jail. They don’t care that running the election over again costs the taxpayers a million dollars, they don’t pay taxes.
              Meanwhile, that poor Chicago taxpayer doesn’t have a chance.

            3. How about making election day a paid holiday?

              Though most companies I know of are required to provide hours for voting (mine has 4 hrs).

            4. Given polls are open 12 hrs…how many of these voters work 12 hr days?

              I’m betting a tiny, tiny number.

        2. “the government should try to preserve that right as best as it can.”

          When did preserve become promote?

          And then do guns.

          1. In your view, what constitutes the bare minimum that the government ought to do in order to protect a citizen’s right to vote?

            As a hypothetical example, suppose that there was only one way to vote in New York City, at one single polling station in Times Square, between the hours of 12:30 pm and 12:35 pm on Election Day. I mean, theoretically the government is “protecting” the right to vote of New Yorkers, as at least a few people will get to vote. Hopefully you’d agree that the government’s efforts here are far too minimal. On the other extreme, if the government mailed a ballot to every resident (not necessarily citizen) and then accepted all ballots from all residents, no verification, no questions asked, that would be going too far in the opposite direction.

            So where do you draw the line?

            1. Hey, another retarded hypothetical to claim we should not secure elections.

            2. “On the other extreme, if the government mailed a ballot to every resident (not necessarily citizen) and then accepted all ballots from all residents, no verification, no questions asked, that would be going too far in the opposite direction.”

              See, that’s not a hypothetical.

              1. Indeed, not hypothetical. That seems to have been the modus operandi of several states in this last election.

            3. Meanwhile, Georgia already provides 3+ weeks, including weekends, for early in-person voting. Unlike your absurd hypothetical.

              Also, do you think you have a constitutional right to vote for President? Hint: you don’t.

            4. “On the other extreme, if the government mailed a ballot to every resident (not necessarily citizen) and then accepted all ballots from all residents, no verification, no questions asked, that would be going too far in the opposite direction.”

              …which happened in multiple locations in 2020…

        3. “Well, the unstated assumption there is that nonvoters are just too lazy or apathetic to vote. It could also be the case that some potential voters want to vote but they cannot do so because, for example, the lines are too long.”

          Not wanting to wait on a line because it’s too long is being lazy.

          1. Don’t forget apathetic

          2. Well gee. If a voter has to choose between going to work or waiting in line to vote, because the lines are so long it’s not possible to do both, would you consider it “lazy” if the voter chose work over voting?

            1. Nobody does. That is why employers should give them time. I’ve never seen an employer that doesn’t.

              1. I have. They are typically low-wage low-skill employees in jobs where they are very replaceable.

                1. Imagine just how much more replaceable under a $15 dollars an hour minimum wage. It is probably best that they don’t vote, huh?

        4. If you take your rights seriously you defend them. The excuse of laziness no way to do this.

          1. Yes, there are some nonvoters who are just plain lazy and apathetic. But there are also potential nonvoters who don’t vote because the government makes them choose between standing in line or going to work.

            1. “because the government makes them”
              Hilarious.
              Again. If they really want to vote, they will improve their situation. The government doesn’t tell them where to work. They only tell them where they can live if they decide that they won’t work. They found plenty of time to protest, rip down statues and burn the Wendy’s, but they can’t find time to vote? Again, sounds like a local thing. We had none of that where I live.
              Perhaps Facebook Live can announce that they are looting the Footlocker, then set up a polling station out front…. Record turnout.

              1. Oh I see. So the nonvoters in your view belong to a bigoted stereotype that you could care less about. That’s why you don’t give a damn.

                1. How is government forcing them to choose between work or voting when they could just wake up earlier and go wait in line, go at lunch, go after work, or go any time when they aren’t working or sleeping? And plenty of people with kids take them with them and make them wait in line just like they have to at Disney or to see Santa in the mall. So that’s no excuse either.

        5. “Absentee Balloting solved that already.”

          Someone didn’t RTFA.

          1. Yeah, YOU!

            “The state Senate on Monday approved a bill limiting when Georgians can use no-excuse absentee voting—that is, voting by mail without having to first provide the state with a reason why you can’t show up at the polls. ”

            Eat the L cunto!

            1. lol White Jeff is so dumb

            2. That’ll leave a mark.

            3. The piece of trash doesn’t understand the difference.

        6. Gun ownership is a constitutional right. You want to compare buying a handgun in California to voting. I think you will find that the left doesn’t really care how hard it is to exercise a constitutional right.

        7. If there are inadequate facilities to allow people to vote at the poll in a reasonable amount of time, I’m all for addressing that. Or have voting over a few days, or on a weekend.

          1. Georgia provides in-person early voting for 3+ weeks before Election Day. I drove past an early-voting location most days and “long line” times seemed to have maybe 50-75 people outside, and I know from experience that about 25 people were in line inside). I kept driving if the line was long and most years drove by when there was virtually no line, so I pulled in and voted in ~10 minutes, and carried on with my day. I prefer voting on Election Day, so if I never saw a trivially short line, I would just go by my polling place (open 7AM to 7PM on Election Day), and stand in line for ~15 minutes, tops.

            The “I can’t afford to take time off work” excuse seems lame in the face of 3+ weeks (including weekends) of early voting.

        8. Rest assured…those same voters would happily wait in longer lines if it was something they really cared about.

    2. “It behooves those who want to expand voting”

      Including libertarians like us, who want convicted serial killers to vote behind bars.

      #TooBadDahmerIsDead

    3. Why not switch to that voting app the Dems used in the Iowa circuses?

    4. Guess we can all see what new word Jeff learned today.

  7. Hmm. Maybe voting by mail creates lots of opportunities for fraud that is very difficult to detect. The fact that there is little evidence of fraud doesn’t mean that there isn’t any fraud or that we shouldn’t worry about it. If there are holes in the system that make fraudulent voting easier, seems sensible to try to close them. Voting shouldn’t be easier. If you want to have a say in which asshole politicians get to try to boss us around, then you can at least get your shit together to get your ass to a poling place and vote.

    1. Disaffected, bigoted vote suppressors are among my favorite culture war casualties.

      1. You hate Democrats huh

        1. Like on south park “if you attack someone, you just better make sure they are the same race as you”

          1. Yea, but not attacking other people just because of their race seems awfully fucking racist.

      2. When I look at my gun collections, I can’t help but having a big smile on my face when I think about pathetic, stick-limbed people like you. 🙂 I also smiled at Cabelas last time I saw a bunch of people happily shopping for ARs. 😀

        Really, just forget it, Clingland, your mega-progressive, shove-down-peoples-throat bullshit will be dead on arrival when the time comes. Your disgusting ilk can only go so far as your betters permit: We the People. Drink it in, loser.

        1. I’ve long suspected that Carrie-Anne Klingers is an angry mixed race tween with bad hair and a small white dick that still has to wear fucking sunblock. Rejected by all, loved by none. Hence, the constant anger.

          1. I’m pretty sure it’s the broken and angered leftovers of Mikey hihn. They both were obsessed with using “clingers” and oral sex.

      3. Disaffected? But they didn’t burn their own neighborhoods, did they?

    2. There is lots of evidence of fraud, you’re just pretending it doesn’t exist.
      That’s not going to help you.

      1. I should have said “purported fact” perhaps. I’m not trying to make any claim about the facts here one way or another.

    3. “voting by mail creates lots of opportunities for fraud that is very difficult to detect”

      Do I trust federal unionized workers heavily favoring Democrats to pick up ballots in heavily Republican areas and not “lose” some? The cool thing about binning a few dozen ballots a day, say, is that those ballots will never show up in any recount or recanvass or audit. And virtually impossible to prove that said trashing of ballots didn’t happen.

      Heck, activists can just walk through a neighborhood, look for Republican (or Democrat, it could work the other way too) signs in a yard, peek in mailboxes and take ballots they might find there. Again, those ballots, once destroyed, cannot show up in any audit or recount. And unless they are caught in the act, proving this happened or didn’t happen is virtually impossible.

  8. Take your best shots, clingers.

    Bigots don’t win in America, not over time. Successive waves of intolerance and ignorance have been encountered and overcome by better Americans. This latest batch of bigots seems nothing special, its reliance on the charms, insights, and personal integrity of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and Josh Hawley notwithstanding.

    Carry on, clingers . . . but, as always in America, just so far and so long as your betters permit.

    1. “Bigots don’t win in America ….”

      https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/opinion/sunday/interracial-friendship-donald-trump.html

      “As against our gauzy national hopes, I will teach my boys to have profound doubts that friendship with white people is possible. When they ask, I will teach my sons that their beautiful hue is a fault line. Spare me platitudes of how we are all the same on the inside.”

      Sure they do.

      1. Disgusting.

        1. Now, now. Bigots don’t win. Some faggot on the internet pretending to be a priest told me they don’t.

          1. Anime priest.

            1. >>Anime priest

              srsly?

                1. lmao yea I google that dimwit once, maybe I should have posted a link. I think he might be a sock of somebody here that’s a bit younger.

                  It’s ironic, isn’t it, how riled up some people get about a joke like him. 😀 Actually, maybe he really is into kids, with that kinda anime kink, you never know.

              1. Yup, he’s just another weeaboo.

    2. Doesn’t take my “best” shots for your ilk, loser.

    3. Then why don’t you explain the success and wealth of Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton? Has there been bigger bigots? They have certainly won.

    4. big·ot
      /ˈbiɡət/

      noun
      noun: bigot; plural noun: bigots

      a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

  9. “The state Senate approved some cynical changes to Georgia’s absentee ballot laws under the guise of securing future elections from fraud that no one seems to be able to find.”

    You need to see fraud in the future in order to justify seeing it? Even if you don’t see an auto accident or a house fire in your future, isn’t it prudent to buy insurance at a reasonable price anyway?

    Two points:

    1) If the voters are concerned about the integrity of the election system, that more than justifies their representatives in the state legislature addressing their concerns.

    The idea that politicians should ignore the concerns of voters–unless Boehm’s favorite experts say their concerns are okay–is indefensible and disgusting elitism. It has no place in libertarianism, and Boehm should turn in his decoder ring immediately.

    2) The Democrats in Congress passed a law that seems to conflict with the provisions in this state bill, and if that’s the case, why shouldn’t states be free to enact their own rules?

    “The “For the People Act of 2021” is something Democrats say is urgently needed as Republican-controlled state legislatures scramble to change voting laws in the wake of the 2020 presidential election.

    . . .

    The package would automatically register people to vote and restore the voting rights of felons. It would also mandate more than two weeks of early voting, encourage voting-by-mail and expand absentee ballot drop boxes across the country — along with other provisions meant to address concerns raised by election officials during the 2020 election cycle.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-democrats-push-pass-election-reforms-gop-moves/story?

    Why wasn’t this mentioned anywhere in Boehm’s piece? Assuming he’s merely ignorant is probably giving him the benefit of the doubt.

    1. Maybe I should have said the House passed a bill rather than a law.

      It may not get through the U.S. Senate and probably won’t.

    2. The idea that politicians should ignore the concerns of voters–unless Boehm’s favorite experts say their concerns are okay–is indefensible and disgusting elitism.

      What about the idea that governmental action ought to have some sort of rational or factual basis to justify it?

      1. What about the idea of a mathematician drafting complex formulas that can predict the collapse of an intergalactic empire hundreds of years in advance?

        Do you ever even try to comprehend what you read before responding to it?

      2. That’s a legal test you fucking retard. If we’re applying legal tests, why did you prog out instead of going with strict scrutiny?

    3. Why wasn’t this mentioned anywhere in Boehm’s piece? Assuming he’s merely ignorant is probably giving him the benefit of the doubt.

      Yup. This piece, in light of the relative lack of coverage of the FTPA, is yet another exclamation mark emphasizing Reason’s Pravda bona fides.

    4. Oh look. God’s Own Prohibitionists insist on fundraising for girl-bullying and shooting kids over plant leaves using His name, though He forbids it! And these same joiks who suckered the prohibitionists into backing their superstitious planks as of 1914 (and LOSING) now face retribution in the voting booth from the people they robbed and branded as felons–over twigs, seeds and plant leaves! Schadenfreude is sweet!

  10. Can you really say nobody seems to be able to find it when nobody seems to be looking?

    1. Also, better Reason headline:

      Insurrection Attempt Seeks To Enfranchise Eligible Voters, Threatening The Proper Outcome And Endangering Our Democracy

    2. Not just not looking, but preventing anybody from being able to look and destroying potential evidence.

      You know what’s curiously absent in these election propaganda pieces?
      33 million more people voted in this election than ever before, about a 20% jump.
      Totes not suspicious…

      1. Lotta people hate fascism Nardz.

        Senile old bootlicker

        1. Then why did they vote for the guy and gal who think the government can tell businesses what to do, when to do it, and how much they can charge for it?

      2. It totally is not suspicious.

        1. It’s incredibly suspicious, you’re just a bootlicking useful idiot

      3. Totes not suspicious…

        Jon Ossoff (D)
        2,211,603 50.2%
        David Perdue (R)
        2,194,578 49.8%

        (a total of 4406181 votes, and a margin of 17k votes)

        Raphael Warnock(D)
        2,230,231 50.61%
        Kelly Loeffler*(R)
        2,176,048 49.39%

        (a total of 4406279 votes, and a margin of 54k votes)

        You’d think that someone voting for Ossoff would also have voted for Warnock and vice-versa, and similarly that a Perdue voter was also a Loeffler voter and vice-versa.

        But 20k fewer people voted for Ossoff than Warnock. There is a similar 20k vote differential in Perdue over Loeffler, so the implication seems to be that 20k people voted for Perdue AND Warnock, which I find virtually unfathomable.

        Meanwhile, there was another state-wide race, for Public Service Commision

        McDonald, Lauren Bubba i (R)
        2,214,057 50.78%
        Blackman, Daniel (D)
        2,145,636 49.22%

        (a total of 4359693 votes)

        So it seems that about 46.5k people voted for Senators but didn’t vote for a PSC. That is in itself not unusual, as it is not rare for people to only vote on the “important” seats and skip down-ballot votes.

        The AMAZING thing to me is that despite 46.5k FEWER votes total, that 20k MORE people voted for a Republican for the PSC seat than voted for Senator Perdue and 38k MORE than Senator Loeffler. Heck even 3k MORE people voted for the Republican PSC candidate than voted for Jon Ossoff.

        But pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Nothing to see here! Absolutely no shenanigans could possibly have occurred.

  11. “Loyalty to Trump means disregarding the evidence that absentee voting is secure and nonpartisan.”

    1. Universal vote by mail and absentee voting are not the same thing.

    2. Either can be secure if implemented properly. For states that implemented it in 2020 on an emergency basis because of COVID, there is around a 5% chance that they did it properly.

    1. Note to foreign readers: “Properly,” to the mystical bigots of Italian fascism, means “in such a way as to elect superstitious bigots to shoot kids and bully girls.”

      1. I see you’re off your meds again and ignoring that both parties do that, but only one party is responsible for Ruby Ridge and Waco.

    2. 1. Indeed. There were reports of apartment dwellers receiving 4 or 5 ballots meant for former tenants. How many people succumbed to the temptation to fill those ballots out?

      2. States that implemented it in an emergency mode magically found “error” rates of 0.3%, despite having a normal error rate of ~3% for their traditional absentee votes.

  12. There are lots of projects that track real evidence of fraud. Specific to 2020, you should check out hereistheevidence.com.

    I’m not familiar with Georgia issues specifically, but there are lots of irregularities worth examination that stem directly from relatively recent rule changes to voting procedures. There are many matters of fact that our various state courts did not really care to address. Sometimes it was due to the fact that the people challenging election results didn’t do it properly, as if such a thing would even be possible for some of the individuals who filed official challenges. That’s why state legislatures are acting instead. All they have to do is look at the matter of fact disputes, decide that something was unnecessary suspicious or lacked quality checks, and propose new procedures to make the election process more secure and accountable.

  13. “Under the terms of S.B. 241, residents will be allowed to vote by mail only if they are physically absent from their districts on Election Day, are physically disabled, are members of the military, or are celebrating a religious holiday.”

    So kind of like most states used to be, when no one had a problem with it?

  14. It’s a good start. Mail in voting should not be allowed. If you cannot be bothered to drag your ass to your precinct and vote you’re not capable of making good decisions. Exceptions for absentee ballots of course for deployed military.

    Now the schmucks here at reason want a free for all where even illegals and felons vote, so basically they are full of it.

    1. What about people in nursing homes? Should they be permitted to cast absentee ballots?

      1. Only if they’re dead.

        1. In which case, they’ll vote Democrat.

      2. Let’s be honest, you really want the ballot harvesting for nursing homes that includes voting from residents who have dementia as was shown in many locales.

        1. Cite?

          1. Cite?

          2. Fucking retard.

            Ethel was about as reliable a voter as there is. For most of her life, she enjoyed doing her civic duty; and not just every four years in presidential elections. Ethel voted in midterm elections, spring primaries, and pretty much every local election she could.

            Since 2012, she has missed just five elections, even voting in this year’s presidential primary at age 95 during the height of the COVID-19 pandemic.

            The problem? Ethel suffered from dementia and, according to her daughter Janet, barely knew who she was or what she had for lunch that day.

            Literally 3rd link down posting my statement into a search engine. This has been documented many times.

            https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2020/11/want-to-find-vote-fraud-look-no-further-than-nursi

            1. Key sentence:

              Ethel died in early October, two weeks before her completed mail-in ballot for this month’s Presidential Election was returned to her local clerk’s office.

              This is the shit you retarded fucks say doesn’t happen. Yet in person polling from outfits like the Voter Integrity Project find many examples.

          3. And more for the ignorant fuck.

            One 2018 case of nursing home vote theft videotaped in Texas showed the ballot harvester bragging she collected 100 coerced votes for a Democratic candidate. A Texas vote integrity activist recently collected solid evidence of nursing home vote fraud resulting in an official investigation. There are many stories of institutional elderly vote theft made public by observant family members.

            https://townhall.com/columnists/kenblackwell/2020/07/02/senior-living-facilities-all-the-vote-fraud-we-cannot-see-n2571747

          4. And the best part. You’ll ask for a cite again tomorrow you retarded fuck.

            1. Heath said his grandmother is relatively healthy, but she has shown symptoms of dementia in recent years.

              “My mom has dementia,” Robinson said. “She doesn’t know what’s going on in terms of voting.”

          5. Seriously, are you fucking too dumb to use a search engine?

            1. Jeez, dude, chill out.

              I never said some fraud doesn’t occur.

              1. Lol. Fuck off you ignorant piece of shit. You choose ignorance because you know your arguments are sophomoric.

        2. Note to foreign readers: The locale in question is the U.S. Senate, in which Prohibitionist Drug Czarist Joe Biden has voted on bills and treaties even after showing clear evidence of loss of cognitive ability. The girl-bullying prohibitionists that excluded the Libertarian Party and caused voters to prefer senility to superstitious fanaticism–as the only “real” alternative–are the ones who caused Boss Trump’s defeat. Trump himself has told God’s Own Prohibitionists to quit panhandling in His name.

      3. Can you demonstrate that the ballot is remotely secure with so many people having the opportunity to lose or alter it?

  15. You can never find evidence if you cannot look.

  16. future elections from fraud that no one seems to be able to find.

    This is an untrue statement. The fraud (or irregularities) have been found, and have been found everywhere, all over the place. The only remaining question is, were these irregularities (and fraud) enough to tip the 2020 election. That as of now is an unanswered question.

    The other question is that it appears that these irregularities have been with us for a long time, possibly decades, but without any interest in digging into it from journalists, we will continue to remain in our blissful incurious ignorance.

    Example: On a phone call to elections officials in Nevada, it was pointed out that there are people registered to vote, who voted, who have addresses listed which either don’t exist, or are incorrect— or in one specific example: both, the address didn’t exist, then was “corrected” to an address which was incorrect. Nevada officials could neither explain nor produce any system which either showed what their process was to decertify a voter with an incorrect or non-existent address, let alone point to any legislative ruling that would invalidate a vote after the fact.

    None of this is to say that any of this is ‘new’ to 2020, it’s probably been this way for decades. But with a completely uninterested press corps, it’s kind of on us to make the phone calls and dig into this shit. Otherwise, if you call yourself a journalist but never dig through a voter roll and pick up the phone and start asking some questions, you just fall back on “no one can find it”.

    1. This is an untrue statement.

      Their mind is gone and they’ve turned full stazi. If you told them that the Jews weren’t the cause of Germany’s fall after WWI, they’d reply that you’re right, the Jews are going to be Jews no matter what and it’s the Germans’ fault for letting them do so.

      See my comment below, the premise of the article assumes the exact premise that the GOP is asserting and refutes or ignores much of the Civil Rights arguments posed in the last half century. Duly-enacted legislation reform is emaculate and couldn’t possibly disenfranchise anyone, except when the Jews Republicans do it.

      If they have pretend that the GOP invented the 2/3 compromise four-score-and-seven-years before they became a political party, well then that’s just how history happened.

      1. Duly-enacted legislation reform

        Legislation reforming voting, that is.

      2. 2/3 compromise? 3/5. Somebody get me a teleprompter and staged speaking engagements.

  17. In other words, a demographic that is reliably Republican would still have access to no-excuse absentee balloting. Most everyone else would not.

    So what you’re saying is that even duly enacted voting legislation can influence the outcome of an election in an unfair manner?

    Because that would effectively cede the Republicans’ larger point. That mail in voting was enacted hastily with the aim of influencing the election rather than making voting safer or fairer.

    You retards have crossed the Rubicon so far that you can’t even consider your “democracy isn’t self-executing” statements in any context except your own.

  18. Several commenters are trying to push the narrative that nobody has looked for fraud. As just one example, Georgia did a full audit with by-hand recount, then did another full recount.

    1. Cite?

      1. How do you have opinions on this without knowing that fact?

        1. Cite?

            1. You consider simply recounting the same ballots, without any investigation into the underlying validity of the ballots, to be an audit?

              I wish the IRS conducted audits like that.

              “Well, we looked at your tax returns a second time and — well, gee golly, wouldn’t ya know it? — they contained the same information that they did when we looked at them the first time around. Sorry to have bothered you.”

              This is exactly why people are raising more than a few eyebrows, and calling you retarded.

              1. They’re raising eyebrows because an orange fascist spread treasonous lies about voter fraud that doesn’t exist.

                A crime has to be proven. Maybe you don’t know how things work in America.

                1. They’re raising eyebrows because there no audit was ever conducted. Your own cite proves that.

                  1. It only benefits me for you to continue swallowing tired Newsmax horseshit whole. Stupid and hysterical only pair with good strategy some of the time, and even America eventually runs out of patience for that.

                    So by all means, open up.

                    1. It’s your cite. If you don’t like what is says, that’s your problem, you lying lefty piece of shit.

                2. Georgia admits over 500 double voters dummy.

                3. That word fascist, I don’t think you actually know what it means.

                  1. You hear the words “Fascist” and “Nazi” more now than when the actual fascists and Nazis were still living and breathing. I lived near the Nazi National HQ when they were active. As you can imagine, they were an “issue” but they were more of a sad joke than a threat. (See, “Blues Brothers”)
                    Like the Woke, they started attacking everybody and then each other. The killed their own leader.

                    1. So you’re saying that their infighting and inherent ridiculousness will overcome their infiltration of the armed forces and law enforcement?

                      I’d take that bet.

          1. I even once thought that maybe Tony is Kirkland. Like when he wears his dark batman suit and underwear on top of his clothes, and then he turns the light off in his dorm and sits at the PC all intense looking, with Danny Elfman playing on his single-speaker stereo from walmart… 😀

    2. “Several commenters are trying to push the narrative”

      And you care?

      Fuck man go outside.

    3. IDK about others, but I’m not pushing any such thing.

      On the contrary, the Republicans have asserted that duly-enacted legislative voting reform, especially when enacted hastily and under the guise of combatting a pandemic, can influence the outcome of the election.

      The narrative that Reason is pushing with this article is that the premise is true but only wrong because Republicans are doing it.

      1. But those reforms a) made it easier to vote during a pandemic and b) didn’t increase incidents of voter fraud, which remained a nonexistent problem. So what’s your issue?

        1. But do you have a cite?

        2. Learn to read, fucktard. I didn’t say anything about voter fraud. The 2/3 compromise didn’t cause any voter fraud either, would you support it?

          1. 3/5 compromise. Damned edit button!

          2. I support democracy, because if I don’t have an equal say in how my own country works, I get to shoot the people who took it away.

            –T. Jefferson

            1. There are only so many ways individuals and minorities can tell tyrannical majorities to knock their shit off and usually the last one is with a gun. – F. Douglas

      2. Problem was not with ” duly-enacted legislative voting reform”.

        Many states had voting procedures changed by executive fiat–that’s not how things get done in a legislative democracy, COVID notwithstanding.

        Many judges just let them do it, too, because COVID and FYTW. Many of those changes markedly weakened the security of the elections.

        “Human error” like tallying votes for the wrong candidate, finding ballots in drawers, trash bins, lock boxes under tables, finding memory cards never counted, running ballots through machines multiple times, finding only 0.3% errors in mail-in ballots when normal absentee ballots run about 3% error, stopping counting then restarting after observers got told to leave, covering up windows at counting places [the people who did that particular one were wearing IEBW union masks], forcing observers to stand 30 feet back despite a judges orders…the list goes on, these are juts the off-the-top-of-my-head ones. The point being that all of this taken together, for me at least personally, very much erodes the confidence in the system.

        It’s not hard to see why true-believers would not take much goading the buy into a conspiracy theory.

        Not that I subscribe to any such theory, but…people say there’s no way a massive conspiracy could tip the election without a trace. But that’s not true.

        It would take only a few thousand votes in a handful of battleground states, which could be limited to a small number of cities. And we already know that a number of cities have a long history of corruption and a long history of being run by Democrats. And for mail-in ballots, all you need to do is make the other guys ballot’s disappear, no need to go to the trouble of create forged ballots that might be discovered. With mass-mail ballots (not absentee requests) anyone living at the address where the ballots arrived could fill them out and sign the name of the “voter” on the form. People in apartments reported received ballots for 4 or 5 previous tenants, so the potential to cast these ballots illegally was huge and we can be pretty certain that some people did exactly that. Absent a rigorous effort to validate each ballot against voter registration and audits to confirm proper association of ballot to real, live voters, we’ll never know.

        In this run-off election when EVERYTHING hinged on the Senate seats, I find it very hard to fathom that the Republican candidate for PSC District 4 received more votes than did 3 of the 4 Senate candidates. I have to admit the possibility that thousands of people would vote for Jon Ossoff *and* Bubba whatever his name was, and that there is a possibility that thousands of people would vote for Republican Bubba for PSC but not vote for either Republican for Senate. Sure, it’s possible. I’m just dumbfounded by it, so much so that if it came out later that somehow 15 or 20k votes for Republican senators were erased but the perp forgot to erase a similar number of votes for Bubba down-ballot, it would make a lot more sense than the alternative voting patterns.

        1. As you’ve clearly spelled out, you don’t give the single slightest shit about election integrity, you just want more Republicans to win. At least you’re all on the same page.

          1. You’ve never clearly spelled out anything ever. Now just go away.

    4. They didn’t do a hard recount you retarded fuck. Not of the state. They rescanned the ballots. One of the problems with this was the abnormally high adjudicated ballots where the original ballot was not compared to the redone ballot you ignorant fuck.

      1. “They rescanned the ballots.”

        The first Georgia recount was by hand.

  19. Every time they do this, it just propels more black voters to wait in line for 12 hours to vote their tyrannical asses out.

    And I’m not sure Republican voters are thrilled to jump through extra hoops to vote for people not named Trump.

    1. But I thought the problem was they that couldn’t be bothered to wait on a line? So, now you’re saying that was … all a lie?

      1. I’m saying shit backfires. Or maybe black voters aren’t the all-thumbs simpletons Republicans assume they are.

        1. Yea, I know, you think the are the all-thumbs simpletons Democrats assume they are.

        2. “If you can’t decide between me and Donald Trump you ain’t black”.

          Was one of your democrat comrades who said that, no?

          1. Suddenly we’ve started caring about gaffes again now that the Twitter monster is gone.

            1. Do you understand what a “gaffe” is?

              1. Like that thing Biden says. An innocuous misspeak that Republicans take deathly serious (sincerely, I’m sure), while bitching about anyone who complained about Trump’s overt racism, misogyny, and fascism.

                1. So, you don’t care about Biden’s racism and misogyny? Or was his rape of Tara Reade just another gaffe?

                  1. Does he believe climate change is real?

                    What about your guy? Does he?

                    That’s pretty much all I care about. Because if the species goes extinct through sheer Republican stupidity, there will be nobody to pretend to be offended by the weird shit Biden sometimes says.

                    1. So his rape of Tara Reade was a gaffe?

                    2. climate change is blown outta proportion by your people. Bidens racial preference dipshittery is also overt when he says “poor kids are just as smart as white kids”.

                      It’s not a gaffe, you dumb socialist shill. It’s his underlying attitude.

                      And yes, I think Trump said many of his outrageous things on purpose, because he knows he can stir the lib-pussies big time.

                      Though I think for covfefe he fell asleep on his phone or put it in his pocket without screenlocking it lol

                    3. About 20 fewer rapes than Trump, who was the only alternative at the time.

                    4. “About 20 fewer rapes than Trump, who was the only alternative at the time.”

                      Okay, but do you have a cite for the assertion that Trump raped 21 women?

                    5. LOL Tony is into the rape count thing

                    6. LOL

                      He’s totally cool with it, so long as it is just one rape.

                    7. Wow, Tony! You are the most pathetic person that I have ever encountered. I pity you.

                    8. Can you give me an update on Green New Deal 12 year time line? I want to live my best life. I just wish that I had John Kerry, Al Gore, or Obama’s private jet to make it happen.

                    9. When the only two options raped, you gotta go with the one who raped less. Or not if somehow his other qualities outweigh that flaw.

                      There’s no such thing as not making a choice.

                    10. Tony sided with Hillary who protected her husband who visited an island with widespread raping of children 26 or so times.

                      Just keep that in mind.

                    11. Being married to a rapist isn’t a crime. Donald Trump being a rapist, and a child rapist, is worse. Again, only two choices.

                2. Like biden saying black people don’t know how to use the internet?

            2. Racism is a gaffe?

        3. Shit backfires on you, because you completely eviscerated the position in favor of which you were arguing by subsequently conceding that waiting in a line isn’t actually an impediment to voting at all.

          1. Waiting in line 12 hours is on its face an impediment. I didn’t think I’d have to justify that.

            1. Do you understand the meaning of the word “impediment”?

              1. Yes. Are you suggesting that as long as there’s a theoretical pathway to voting, even if it takes the age and breadth of the universe, then it’s constitutionally sound?

                1. Are you admitting that complaining about people waiting to vote, but then arguing five seconds later that they’ll wait and vote anyway, if only out of spite, is not a giant contradiction in your thinking?

                  1. They wouldn’t be voting out of spite, but to elect Democrats who don’t try to steal their right to vote.

                    1. And waiting in line to do so thus rendering your entire point about waiting in line being an insurmountable obstacle that amounts to voter suppression a giant steaming pile of retarded lefty bullshit — like absolutely everything else that tumbles out of your asshole … er … your mouth.

            2. 12 hour lines caused by mismanagement from local voting officials, usually democrats.

            3. Cite of anybody waiting 12 hrs to vote?

    2. Tony fergot women. Linseed Graham Cracker, Marjorie Greene Teeth and Justice Coney–we are assured–are on a Mission From God’s Own Prohibitionists to overturn that nasty Libertarian Roe v Wade decision and amend the Constatoo-shun to send men with guns to ban all birth control. Naral activated its network with a new sense of urgency and Christian National Socialism was again defenestrated, eugenics theories and all.

    3. Re the willing to wait 12 hours ‘problem’.

      You can bet that distributing food and water to voters waiting in that line will become illegal. As will allowing them to leave the line to use the restroom.

    4. Local election officials determine the number of voting cites. Blame democrats. They are usually the local officials in charge of urban areas.

      1. Republicans made them do it.

    5. Only black voters? Are they the only ones waiting in line or are they the only ones worthy of our attention? Do you not speak for the poor denizens of the trailer parks as well? Don’t tell us that Georgia still has separate lines. Still?
      Perhaps the locals running the poll place are slow and incapable of efficiency. We could easily pull graduation rates from the local schools and get a handle on this “12 hour line” nonsense.

  20. Loyalty to Trump means disregarding the evidence that absentee voting is secure and nonpartisan.

    The idea that absentee voting is as secure as in-person voting is simply laughably absurd. It’s retarded nonsense nobody with more than two brain cells could possibly believe.

    1. How can you be more secure than almost 100% secure? Mail voting requires extra hurdles, so maybe it’s more secure, in theory.

      Voter impersonation fraud is not a problem in this country. This is a fact that has been re-demonstrated eleventy million times.

      You just don’t like facts that hurt Republicans. That makes you sad.

      1. Cite?

        1. Cite what? That a crime didn’t happen?

          Cite that you didn’t fuck your grandma last night.

          1. “Voter impersonation fraud is not a problem in this country. This is a fact that has been re-demonstrated eleventy million times.”

            And yes, I am holding to provide a cite that specifically uses the term “eleventy million times,” or can mathematically support your use of the term.

            1. Or what? You’ll call your local congressman and urge him to support further disenfranchisement efforts.

              It’s long past the time I figured out that the only thing Republicans and their supporters can contribute to the national conversation is to commit electoral suicide as fast as possible.

              This opinion is mine and mine alone, but if it had looked like Biden was going to lose, I would have hoped he was willing to cheat.

              1. Or I’ll conclude you’re full of shit, which you are.

              2. “Disenfranchisement efforts”? Wow! I am going to use that phrase all the time. That is awesome. As a matter of fact, I am going to propose that we rename all of BLMs favorite cities, “Disenfranchisement efforts”!
                That phrase closely describes what happened last summer to the business district in Chicago. In urban terms, “It was disenfranchised”.
                Perhaps BLM could help get a few people to the polls. They certainly had no problem creating huge turnouts at the looting and burning festivals. Instead of carrying merchandise away from businesses, some of the young scamps can carry a voter to the polls.

                1. I’ll feel dirty after reading this comment, and not in a good way.

                  *Pats head*

                  There there, continue your never-ending quest to genocide the blacks. I believe it was Gibbon who said that history eventually gets around to agreeing with racist fucktards.

                  1. “When Wokes and Racists Actually Agree on Everything”

          2. Plenty of crime happened dummy.

    2. Even Jimmy Carter found mail in voting was ripe for fraud. So did the NYT.

  21. Due to secret ballots, all that can be audited is to compare a list of the number of people who voted with a tally of the votes. It can’t “prove” that, say, a hundred envelopes were opened and the ballots therein thrown away and replaced by another hundred manufactured ballots. If all the mailing envelopes were retained, their number could be compared to actual mailed in ballots, but it could not be determined if those ballots counted were the same ones that came out of the ballot without improving the security of
    opening and counting those ballots.

    1. Considering the people who did all the complaining about phantom voter fraud ended up trying to overthrow the government with violence, I wonder if their opinion on the matter isn’t a tad in the “shut the fuck up” zone.

      1. But enough about BLM.

        1. Cite that BLM tried to overthrow the government.

          1. Cite that anyone tried to overthrow the government since the Civil War.

            1. I saw it happen on CNN. They broke into the capitol building with the intention of disrupting the electoral college vote.

              I’m sure if it were BLM trying to cancel Trump you’d consider it harmless hijinx too.

              1. I didn’t ask you about anyone’s intentions of disrupting a vote. I asked you to provide a cite that anyone tried to overthrow the government.

                Stay on point, dishonest lefty shit. Stay on point.

              2. Oh my god, they aren’t robots, they knew they wouldn’t succeed. You are so dumb. It was a highly inappropriate way to protest and dumb, but three guys with a gun can’t take over the US you weirdo who can’t think in proportions. Same for 3000 people with a gun. The capitol rioters were somewhere in that interval.

                1. An object lesson in the fact that most revolutions are started by idiots who fail.

                  Only most of the time they are obliterated by the state they tried to cancel, which is why we don’t remember them.

              3. They were “high on da Trump”. A certain percentage of the population is susceptible to being “victimized” by it’s wiles. They are prone to trouble.
                Much like a certain percentage of the population enjoys crime, murder, crack, fentanyl, heroin, looting, and canonizing OD’d felons.
                I noticed that one side “attacked” a heavily defended government building and did not loot and burn it, while the other attacked innocent business owners and carted off their stuff, then burned the buildings, repeatedly.
                If I had to choose………

              4. By taking selfies and chanting?

                Protesters did worse with the Kavanaugh hearings, accosting Senators in elevators and all.

                1. Were people murdered? Was any vital government process disrupted by threats and realities of violence?

                  Watch the real news son.

              5. I’m sure if it were BLM trying to cancel Trump…

                The old “in this hypothetical, my opponents would pick the evilest path possible” line of argumentation.

                It certainty works well in your head Tony, so then you know it must be true.

          2. Nobody tried to overthrow the government. But BLM would, if they could. They fail though and just riot, and then the media doesn’t spread an insurrection narrative.

            (The capitol hill riots still were one of the dumbest maneuvers in history, for the record, but I think most people here agree about that, which is why the media is a piece of shit for trying to make it look Republicans in general supported that thing somehow.)

            1. In all of history, huh?

              1. There have been dumber ones. But we really didn’t need that on top of a blue trifecta. Deals a hit to the position of conservatives, and that’s certainly bad for balance.

      2. Did you see any implements of overthrow? For 2nd amendment supporters, they sure didn’t look armed to me.
        I was there when we took over Iraq, we certainly dressed sensibly and came much better prepared.
        PRO TIP: Red, White, and Blue clothing is a terrible choice if one is expecting to engage in a gunfight. A whimsical horned helmet and blue paint is even worse on a granite background.

    2. So, a completely pointless “audit,” which is precisely why safeguards prior to voting are so important. Untangling the mess afterward is basically impossible.

    3. Sounds like secret ballots are the biggest stumbling block here. If you want elections that are clearly and evidently free of fraud, then transparency rather than secrecy is called for.

  22. It’s interesting left wingers and their supporters best evidence is an inability to find things they don’t look for. I guess the sound byte doesn’t work so well when you’re not around the drum circle and someone brings up the facts you’re pretending don’t exist.

    Perhaps someone can explain why they removed signature verification from mail in ballots if it wasn’t suborning fraud.

    1. Perhaps someone should explain to you that we don’t assume a crime has happened before there is a shred of evidence for a crime, at least in this country.

      1. Two recent impeachments say you’re a fucking liar.

        1. There was so much evidence in both impeachments it compelled Democrats to impeach even though they knew it wouldn’t do them any good.

        2. Okay, but do you have a cite?

        3. You have Google. Presumably it works the same even for Newsmax junkies.

          Did you know that you can freely choose not to support disenfranchisement, racism, fascism, and stupidity? Literally nothing compels you to continue supporting those things except brain chemicals activated by unnecessary emotional attachments to a toxic culture.

          Bad cultures die all the time. Why go down with that ship when you don’t have to?

          1. So, what you’re saying is, you don’t have a cite?

            1. LOL!

              Thanks, I needed that!

            2. Of course I do. This is the problem with stupidity. Well, one problem.

              https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/interactive/2021/evidence-trump-second-impeachment/

              1. Hmmm. And here I thought his speech was evidence in itself that it was not even remotely close to any type of legal incitement, but apparently there’s all this other made up shit.

                Did you always support punishing the speech of people you disagree with?

                1. When that speech is incitement to a violent overthrow of my government, yep.

                  1. But you never provided any cite that there was, in fact, an overthrow of the government. So, what gives?

                  2. So was a a planned armed insurrection or an incitement by Trump’s speech?

                  3. Where was the, you know, incitement to violence? What were the EXACT WORDS that “incited violence”?

                  4. When that speech is incitement to a violent overthrow of my government, yep.

                    lmao

                2. Yes, yes he does.

              2. WaPo? You think Jeff Bezos is hot, huh?

                1. My entire house is full of his stuff, so maybe?

                  1. God damn! You’re right!

                    They got your whole house on sale!

                    https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00J3YAQQM/reasonmagazinea-20/

                  2. Your entire head is filled with thoughts about evil conservatives and hicks, so I think I know where your erotic fixation is.

                    Besides, I don’t buy that much on Amazon, but nice rhetoric, loser.

                    1. Some of my best erotic fixations are evil conservative hicks, that’s true. I’m from the bible belt, what do you expect?

          2. “Disenfranchisement” describes the single parent situation in the ghetto very well.

            “Disenfranchised Baby Mama”. The victims will love that line.

      2. Apparently it’s news to the left that processes should be set up to prevent fraud even before fraud occurs. Their designing the process specifically to make fraud unidentifiable is evidence of fraud.

        This is not news to any professional. Any business with a reporting system devoid of basic anti-fraud measures would be ineligible for basic business functions like audits and bank loans and would fail any regulatory framework. Any professional defending such a system would be understood as incompetent or a fraud suspect.

        The left’s problem is that they’re all so completely ignorant of how systems work in the real world they make these idiotic statements without understanding how stupid they are.

        1. They’re elections. They’ve been set up that way the whole time. Do you think it was a free-for-all before Trump bravely came along and pointed out the problem? Elections are secure from the problem you’re talking about. If that’s not the case, the burden of proof is on you, since you’re the one asserting the existence of crimes. So pony up or shut the fuck up.

          Even if it were a real problem, you should then tell me how closing polling sites in black neighborhoods even addresses it.

          1. been set up that way the whole time.

            This is a lie. They used to have signature verification on mail in ballots. There’s no reason for this to have been removed except to suborn fraud.

            Elections are secure from the problem you’re talking about.

            The facts show this is not true. A willingness to brazenly lie and look stupid in public is the key attribute of left wing activists.

            since you’re the one asserting the existence of crimes.

            In fact I’m pointing out the process was changed to eliminate the possibility of detecting fraud. As far as I know this is not a crime. You’re not smart enough to understand the difference, but smarter people than you trained you to switch the subject to crime so they can avoid analyzing how their process is defective. But since the system is specifically designed to prevent any evidence from existing this is an unreasonable demand. It’s the left’s version of cops refusing to investigate themselves and pointing to the lack of evidence as proof investigations are unnecessary. We eventually got past this in regard to cops but the left is still protecting their own.

          2. “hey’re elections. They’ve been set up that way the whole time. Do you think it was a free-for-all before Trump bravely came along and pointed out the problem? Elections are secure from the problem you’re talking about.”

            Can you explain all the hubbub over non-existent Russian collusion? You seemed CONVINCED that Russia interfered in 2016. Are you admitting they did not?

            1. I can explain why all of you retards all have the exact same untrue talking points all at the same time.

              It’s because you’re retards who don’t know how facts work.

          3. They’re elections were gun purchases. They’ve been set up that way the whole time. Do you think it was a free-for-all before Trump all mighty government bravely came along and pointed out the problem?….

            FTFY

      3. You’re claiming a coup was attempted, so perhaps you should abide your own advice.

    2. “why they removed signature verification from mail in ballots ”

      The impulse to de-regulate. Removing bureaucratic hurdles and reducing paper work.

      1. So, fuck ballot security in other words.

        If only your bank did that with your account and others asking to access it…

        I love seeing progs claiming that de-regulation means doing away with all security obligations.

  23. God’s Own Prohibitionists had to choose. They could either admit that women with natural hair and teeth voted en masse for individual rights and against the faith-based coercive superstition that declares that life begins at erection–just as women voters voted against National Prohibition in 1932–or do something else. The something else was to exaggerate out of proportion the vote fraud Nixon’s anti-libertarian law institutionalized in 1971, and place blind Faith in the Belief that “we won, but we wuz robbed!” They decided what lie to believe and now believe it. That’s faith.

  24. What matters is whether the general population believes that the elections are fair and secure.
    They don’t even need to be fair, if people believe they are, that is enough.
    Most people in the USA at least suspect that our elections have become sketchy at best.
    I lived in the USSR, and remember very well how people could watch the news or read the paper, and pretty reliably know when they were lying, which was frequent. Often, you could divine the truth from the way they phrased their lies.
    For a long time, when US news media reported on claims made by the previous administration or their allies, they would phrase it as “Trump claimed without evidence that…..”. Then they switched to “false claims”, as in “Trump falsely claimed today that the Covid vaccine would be ready by the end of 2020”.
    Any mention of election fraud has been phrased like that since the election, and started well before any of the news sources using that language could have possibly had time to investigate any of it.

    Any time the media and politicians are so on-message and perfectly synced, a reasonably skeptical person should be suspicious.

    There has certainly been a strong effort on behalf of the democrats to make election fraud easy and without consequence. In my state, election workers are forbidden from asking for any form of identification. They are not doing this because they actually believe that minorities are not smart enough to get ID. They are not trying to get signature verification removed from the process because they want it to be fair and transparent.
    We all know that these efforts are about making it easy for ineligible, deceased,or fictional people to vote. That has been an essential democrat tactic for at least the last century.

    What I get from the current situation is that people generally do not want to find or acknowledge voter fraud, if for no other reason than the fact that acknowledging a fraudulent election would have worse consequences than just ignoring it. When instances of obvious fraud are pointed out, they are minimized or claimed to be as isolated and atypical.
    There are people who have been filmed buying votes, convincing people to change their ballots, and admitting that they are members of teams of people, each responsible for thousands of illegal votes. Relatively few people have been caught doing this, but only because the ones that did were recorded doing it and bragging about it. How many others kept their mouths shut and avoided being filmed?

    1. Americans do have rather high numbers on distrust in elections. But it’s both sides of the coin.

      You’re talking about voter fraud, which has never been demonstrated to be a real problem, but not talking about gerrymandering, voter suppression laws, and false propaganda about elections all promoted by an entire political party.

      That’s cheating, and it’s happening in broad daylight, and it’s a big reason so many Americans distrust elections.

      Not to mention the fact that Democrats wanted to regulate voting machines more, but Republicans wouldn’t let them for *some* reason.

      There’s only one way to go here if you really care about this. Make voting both easy and secure. Unfortunately, this means Republicans will win fewer elections. Do you care enough about this to watch that happen? Or no?

      1. Make voting both easy and secure.

        EXACTLY. Why some people have a difficult time with this simple formulation is beyond me.

        1. Why some people have a difficult time with this simple formulation is beyond me.

          It’s revealing you have to pretend to support what you oppose to justify yourself. It’s an admission you know your beliefs are wrong.

          1. I support making voting both easy and secure. Do you?

            1. I support making voting both easy and secure.

              If this were true you would not have supported Tony’s claim that security is voter suppressions and racist with the comment “EXACTLY”.

      2. “Make voting both easy and secure.”

        I’m for this. Now tell me how we have easy, yet secure voting.

        I want every single person who is eligible to vote be able to do so if they choose to do so.

        At the same time, I want to be able to verify that each ballot cast is cast by an eligible voter, who is voting their own ballot, in the district in which they legally reside as citizens, and that they are voting once and only once.

        I want the counting methods to be repeatable and auditable, to help ensure that only valid ballots cast by actual eligible voters are counted.

        I want the people doing the counting (or running the counting machines) to be impartial (and the machines need to be verifiable as impartial and accurate).

        It seems to me that every proposed effort to make voting “easier” categorically tosses out all these notions.

    2. “Thou mayst esteem a man of many words and many…” um… how does that that maxim go? A reasonably skeptical person would remember it, no?

  25. So long as we are going full idiot with mail-in voting, why stop there? I realize not an option for all, but why not just do it on-line? I mean, c’mon man, why rely on an ancient relic as the USPS? On-line voting is every bit as secure as mail-in Those without internet can still depend on USPS.

  26. Having college students vote at home, and again in their university town – that’s wholesale election fraud. Fairly easy to see it happening.

    Anyone who wants Voting by mail, privately, one by one – retail. Promoted by the left as “fair”.

    They’re both fraud, and both are attacks on honest polling, and both need to be reigned before the US becomes North Venezuela.

    Much as I hate the concept of having to present an ID to vote, it’s beginning to look to me as the only solution: in person, on election day, with ID.

    How bad is it? Read some of my historic posts over the years – if even I think ID has become a necessary evil, its pretty bad.

    Sign me “Disgusted”.

    1. the road from richest to poorest has some familiar stops

      1.53K subscribers
      The former US President praised the Venezuelan voting system for its high levels of security and allowing easier verification of the results.

      In 2004, Venezuela selected Smartmatic to expand automation to include voting. Over time, the Carter Center has had the chance to study the Venezuelan voting system. After thorough examination of the Venezuelan solution Mr. Carter stated in 2012: “After having monitored 92 elections, I can say that Venezuela has the best voting system in the world, since it makes verifying the electoral results easier. It allows electronic voting and offers a physical, printed backup of the votes”.

      The Carter Center, headquartered in Atlanta Georgia, is nowadays an organization recognized for a deep knowledge in election observation. During the last thirty years it has observed 98 elections in 37 countries.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Dmt2_QioI

    2. College age students have a historically very low voter turnout.

      The rest of your CT is just as silly.

    3. The election apparatus of this country didn’t neglect to consider watching out for double voting, until Donald Trump, democracy expert, came along.

      So there’s nothing to worry about. And there wasn’t a problem in the first place that required making voting more difficult.

  27. A) Good

    B) Not good enough, or soon enough

  28. This thread has been a laboratory confirmation of the incompetence of God’s Own Prohibitionists–roughly the same dirty dozen repeatedly breaking wind in this Libertarian forum–to collectively hold their own against Tony the Totalitarian, alone, unarmed, and oblivious of how NARAL turned out the female vote to unseat Koercive KKristianity. No better demonstration of how mystical bigotry has turned the Gee-Oh-Pee into a circus clown act of spilled mandatory urine-test-samplescould be devised. It took a communist anarchist on the ticket for the Libertarian Party to lose to these losers.

  29. from fraud that no one seems to be able to find.

    So?

    1. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    2. The problem with the last *TWO!* – THE LAST TWO FUCKING ELECTIONS – is that ‘the people’ didn’t have confidence in their ‘fairness’.

    So, the question to be asked is not ‘will this make an election more secure’ but ‘will this make people feel more secure about the election’ *and* ‘what are the tradeoffs involved compared to our previous voting baseline where mail-in ballots were limited’?

    Also – there’s no evidence that anyone has ever come into my house while I’m not home. I still lock the fucking door.

    1. “Our election was hijacked. There is no question. Congress has a duty to #ProtectOurDemocracy & #FollowTheFacts.”

      20127, Nancy Pelosi

  30. Republicans in the state legislature from making some cynical changes

    The changes by, for example, the Democratic House, are, of course, not cynical *at all* – even though they would apply to the whole nation and basically destroy Federalism.

  31. Under the terms of S.B. 241, residents will be allowed to vote by mail only if they are physically absent from their districts on Election Day, are physically disabled, are members of the military, or are celebrating a religious holiday. Only one group of people is still allowed to vote by mail for any reason: residents over age 65.

    In other words, a demographic that is reliably Republican would still have access to no-excuse absentee balloting. Most everyone else would not.

    And which demographic would that be?

    I hope you don’t think its the military. Because the military stopped being reliably red IN THE 1990’s!

    Is it the religious? Devout people getting together to perform their superstitious rituals in favor of neglecting their duty to gather in worship of the almighty state?

    Or maybe its the old people – but they’ll be helped along by those nice friendly young Democrat vote-collectors.

  32. This is the vanguard of libertarianism folks.

    1. The vanguard of libertarianism to hold Team Red accountable for their cynical attempts to restrict voting under the guise of “election security”? Kinda like their attempts to hold Team Blue accountable for their cynical attempts to pursue longstanding policy objectives in the recent spending bill under the guise of “COVID relief”? What is wrong with that, exactly?

      1. But the vanguard of libertarianism is to *not* hold Team Blue accountable for their cynical attempts to remove all security from elections by nationalizing them – in complete opposition to the idea of Federalism that the country was founded on?

        1. The country was founded on a dispute between state and national power. The states’ rights people keep spectacularly failing to prove their case.

      2. But it’s not like it is stopping people from actually voting.

        Or do you think voters are just too stupid and lazy to vote in person for the two to three weeks prior to Election Day?

  33. “fraud that no one seems to be able to find.”

    No one is currently #1 on Amazon.

    The Deep Rig: How Election Fraud Cost Donald J. Trump the White House, By a Man Who did not Vote for Him Kindle Edition
    by M Byrne, Patrick (Author) Format: Kindle Edition
    4.9 out of 5 stars 343 ratings
    #1 Best Seller in Corruption & Misconduct in Politics

    https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B08X1Z9FHP/reasonmagazinea-20/

    1. Idiots can buy books. Doesn’t make the author any less of a crackpot.

      1. exactly

        “there’s no evidence” is just a dishonest way of saying “I refuse to consider any evidence”

  34. ABOUT TIME!!!!! This is some of the BEST news yet!
    Ensure election integrity in the USA.

    The fact that purchasing a soda pop at the gas station has more security to it than USA presidential elections is embarrassing.

  35. Conservatives had tried to stop all Sunday voting to curtail black votes (black churches vote on Sundays in groups) but that one was pulled out at the last minute.  

    Poll taxes don’t cut it anymore.

    1. Nah never happened. I assume you don’t vote because you’re illiterate.

      1. Second part of the 24th Amendment (“or other tax”) is another great mistake. If you’re not supporting the system, you shouldn’t get to control it. I’d go further: anyone whose total income is more than 50% from governmental sources (Socialist Insecurity, AFDC, etc., but also grant and contracts, and also salary) does not get to vote. We’ve created a short circuit and it’s overheating really badly.

  36. Isn’t Georgia the place where hillbillies actually ELECTED Marjorie Greene Teeth? This is the wizened redneck harridan whose entire platform is that sexual intercourse should only be permitted as “our duty to The Party.” NOW do their bills to ban voting begin to make sense? When Germans realized they’d elected a National Socialist Dictatorship, their politicians rushed to the Reichstag to ban voting, then torched it for good measure! History does rhyme after all, like Mark Twain said it would.

    1. Yes, because unfortunately we like clownish politicians. See Newt Gingrich, Cynthia McKinney, Paul Broun, Lester Maddox, and others.

    2. Nobody here even knows anything about the Reichstag fire. You’re using it wrong. Also democrats talking about the big lie. Again you’re not accurate.

      Did you ever read a fucking book or do you just get all your info from Twitter shitters like pedo buttplug and Tony.

      1. Hank’s just a bootlicker with a bit more flare than his comrades

      2. That’s why he said history rhymes rather than repeats itself.

        Republicans are red,
        Democrats are blue,
        The old Nazis are dead,
        The new ones will be too.

  37. I assume the vote suppressing fascists on here must not work because I don’t have time to stand in line hours to vote.

    1. also concerned about the possibility of fraud in elections in a country Jasa seo bulanan

  38. Voting seems to be the only constitutional right where, if government sets up onerous burdens and restrictions on how that right may be exercised, the local Team Red crowd around here will not only cheer for the restrictions, but demand even more restrictions on the exercise of that right.

    If you want only in-person voting on Election Day, then support efforts to make that happen reliably and efficiently. No huge lines. No confusion about polling places. No polling places run by nothing but untrained clueless volunteers who don’t know how to use the voting machines. This will cost money, but this is the type of thing that the government SHOULD be spending money on – facilitating the exercise of one’s constitutional right to vote.

    1. Nonsense most states have early voting anyway. There’s no reason for mail in voting of any kind. If you’re too lazy or stupid to show up then it’s on you. I assume the only reason democrats and stupid libertarians want mail in voting is to allow people to vote who aren’t eligible or to allow ballot harvesting. Since dumbasses want illegals and felons to vote they must want to shut conservatives out. So essentially you’ve become the person you claim to hate. How’s that taste bitter and hard to swallow?

      1. If you’re too lazy or stupid to show up then it’s on you.

        Can we please knock it off with this broad brush assumption? YES there are people who are lazy and can’t be bothered to vote. But there are ALSO people who have a difficult time trying to juggle their daily lives as it is and would have to choose between voting and their job if they had no other option but to vote in person on Election Day.

        There’s no reason for mail in voting of any kind.

        What about for citizens living overseas?

        What about for people in nursing homes, or in the hospital?

        What about for people who are home-bound or place-bound?

        I’ll tell you what I want. I want to provide as many secure options for voting as reasonably possible. OF COURSE the voting methods, whatever chosen, must be secure. So there is a tradeoff of course. But the tradeoff should be tilted towards the government accommodating the people, and not the other way around. What constitutes “secure”? We can have a good faith discussion on that. And at the end of the day, if it is decided that the only “secure” method of voting is in-person voting on Election Day, then the government should move Heaven and Earth to make sure that goes as absolutely smoothly as possible. No huge lines, no long waits. But if the resulting decision, is that everyone must vote in person on Election Day, but the government doesn’t really do anything to make that feasible, and makes people wait in long lines, then that’s unacceptable. They need to accommodate us. Not the other way around.

        1. chemjeff radical individualist #1
          March.9.2021 at 9:41 pm

          Voting seems to be the only constitutional right where, if government sets up onerous burdens and restrictions on how that right may be exercised, the local Team Red crowd around here will not only cheer for the restrictions, but demand even more restrictions on the exercise of that right.

          chemjeff radical individualist #2
          March.9.2021 at 10:00 pm
          Can we please knock it off with this broad brush assumption?

          Anyone ever notice how left wingers choose whatever standard is necessary to make their point even when it contradicts everything they’ve ever written?

          OF COURSE the voting methods, whatever chosen, must be secure.

          In reality left wingers both actively oppose all security measures and call everyone who supports them a racist. As one example I’ve never received an answer to why left wingers removed the signature verification on mail in ballots. So even as left wingers claim “of course” voting needs to be secure they are actively opposing making it so. In cases like this where their support for fraud is obvious they distract or attack other issues – exactly what a good faith participant would not do.

          Amusingly they think this proves other people are unreasonable while they are capable of good faith discussions. This is the core of left wing privilege: even as they demonstrate they will not or can not engage in good faith they pose as the high priests of good faith.

          1. “As one example I’ve never received an answer to why left wingers removed the signature verification on mail in ballots.”

            Isn’t the answer obvious? This is a libertarian magazine. Work it out from there. The answer is de-regulation. Cutting down on paperwork and gratuitous government bureaucracy and red tape. Those signatures don’t verify themselves. That’s a job for unionized civil servants.

            1. Isn’t the answer obvious?

              Yes. People who support voting by mail don’t want to verify the ballots are valid.

              Left wingers are now pretending they can’t secure elections because it costs money. It’s revealing it took exactly one comment to get them to stop pretending they support secure elections. Whatever excuse works in the moment even if it’s one they literally care nothing about.

              1. “Left wingers are now pretending they can’t secure elections because it costs money. ”

                Maybe your mind reading skills are better than mine. I assume left wingers don’t want to make voting difficult. Right wingers want to make it difficult. Fewer votes cast is beneficial to the right, More to the left. You don’t need mind reading skills to understand that.

                Elections have never been secure and never will be unless there is more transparency and less secrecy in the process.

                1. I assume left wingers don’t want to make voting difficult.

                  Signature verification does not make voting difficult.

                  1. Surely it makes it slower. Is that the problem these days, grandpa… Voting is too fast for you and you want to slow it down? How about signature verification and finger dyes?

                    1. Signature verification is for mail-in ballots. Are you under the impression people deliver these in person and wait while the process occurs?

                      Maybe you can learn something by the time you’re old enough to vote.

          2. Maybe you should ask your left-wing caricatures why they believe the things that they believe. I can only speak for myself. I am fine with signature verification as a general tool for election security. I am not fine with ONLY using signatures, especially because people’s signatures do indeed change with time, and the act of comparing two signatures can be difficult even for non-ideologically-motivated people. But I am fine with using signature verification, along with other identity verification measures, for electoral security purposes. Sound good to you?

            But instead of throwing grenades into the conversation, perhaps you can discuss what you would like to see in terms of election security.

            1. Maybe you should ask your left-wing caricatures

              The people controlling the elections process don’t actually exist? They are only caricatures?

              See what left wingers have to believe to maintain their worldview?

            2. ” But I am fine with using signature verification, along with other identity verification measures, for electoral security purposes. Sound good to you?”

              No it doesn’t, If you have no trust in the people responsible for implementing these measures, then adding extra hoops to jump through is not going to change that. These calls for signature verification are just blowing smoke. The concern for secure elections is pure hogwash. Given the choice between winning an insecure election and losing a secure one, You don’t need a weather man to know which way the wind blows.

              1. If you have no trust in the people responsible for implementing these measures, then adding extra hoops to jump through is not going to change that.

                This is actually a good point.

                A majority of Republicans in the Georgia statehouse were elected under the old rules. They insist those elections were fair and right and so-on. That same election saw GA go for Biden and two Democrat senators. They insist those elections were unfair and rigged and fraudulent and so-on.

                In case you missed it… they insist that the same elections that were fair (for them) were unfair for Biden.

                And this is GA we’re talking about. It’s Republicans all up-and-down the state government. Republican Secretary of State (who they don’t trust), republican governor (who they don’t trust), republicans at the local levels (who they don’t trust).

                So since they only consider elections fair when Republicans won them, and think any that elected a Democrat were rigged (even when it was the same election), why would you, by your own estimation of their motivations, think this is a legitimate attempt at securing the election, and not something else?

            3. I’m no expert, but using signatures for any legitimate purpose seems roughly at Medieval levels of science.

              Everyone transacts their entire life’s worth on the internet every day and feel fine about it. We can make voting easy and secure if we really wanted to. It’s not rocket surgery to count votes.

        2. But there are ALSO people who have a difficult time trying to juggle their daily lives as it is and would have to choose between voting and their job

          So, these hypothetical people? They work 15 hour days? They have bosses so tyrannical that they won’t let them take a quarter shift off? Where do you live that these things are issues.

          I live in Yuma, AZ. A poor city in a poor state. We manage to find time to vote, if we care to.

          1. Seems odd to complain if it’s made easier. Are you in one of those weird self-flagellating Christian sects?

            Dude, the ones that tell you God wants you to be rich and fuck everyone are way better.

      2. ” If you’re too lazy or stupid to show up then it’s on you. ”

        Nicely done comrade, channeling the spirit of Joe Stalin, who would have said much the same when the hoodlums and wreckers complained about being required to pass their time lining up for bread, potatoes and the like.

      3. Why should felons not be allowed to vote?

        1. why should voters not be allowed to commit felonies?

    2. If you want only in-person voting on Election Day, then support efforts to make that happen reliably and efficiently.

      But we already do. What ideas do you have to make it happen?

      No huge lines. No confusion about polling places. No polling places run by nothing but untrained clueless volunteers who don’t know how to use the voting machines.

      None of those things are issues where I live. The lines are maybe a half hour, tops. No confusion because you get told where your polling place is specifically. And we’re not helpless idiots so we can figure out how to operate a voting machine ourselves.

      Where do you live that these things are a problem that need to be solved?

    3. Now do guns.

    1. some conspiracy theories are banned from Facebook

      others become national security policy

  39. About the For the People Act:

    “The bill contains election security provisions, including a voter verified paper ballot provision mandating the use of paper ballots that can be marked by voters either by hand or with a ballot marking device and inspected by the voter to allow any errors to be corrected before the ballot is cast. The bill would also require state officials to preserve paper ballots for recounts or audits, and to conduct a hand count of ballots for recounts and audits. The bill would require the voting machines used in all federal elections to be manufactured in the U.S.”

    That should satisfy Republican concerns.

    1. lol no it demands they destroy all such records

      In Section 1502, the bill would ban state and local officials from preserving the record of paper ballots that make trustworthy post-election recounts and audits possible. It states: ‘‘The voting system shall not preserve the voter-verified paper ballots in any manner that makes it possible, at any time after the ballot has been cast, to associate a voter with the record of the voter’s vote without the voter’s consent.”

      of course no such national vote audit matching voter to vote has ever even been attempted in the US, thus no one can know the actual incidence of fraud in US national elections — all such estimates rely on inferences from mathematical tools or statistical analyses that a competently executed fraud could finesse with relative ease in a close election given that all such tools and analyses are public knowledge

  40. Absentee ballots make it much easier to bribe voters. Does that count as fraud?

  41. no illegals voting
    no late voting
    no early voting
    no computers
    voter must correctly identify the three branches of government for ballot to count

    1. The bill mandates universal mail-in balloting and requires states to wait ten days after election day for any outstanding tranches of ballots to be suddenly discovered in Democrat-run strongholds — oops, I mean, allow all ballots to arrive.
      ——-
      “Perhaps most egregious is the Act’s limitations on voter ID laws,” write the attorneys general. “Fairly considered, requiring government-issued photo identification at the polls represents nothing more than a best practice for election administration.”
      ——
      By forcing states to automatically and duplicatively register all people to vote through government outposts such as motor vehicles, state universities, and welfare agencies, H.R. 1 would register millions of illegal migrants to vote in the United States.
      ——-
      The bill would also eliminate any requirements that a witness sign an absentee ballot, and send absentee ballots for life to everyone who has ever used one. It would also effectively ban matching signatures on absentee ballots to government records of the voter’s signature, such as from a driver’s license record (Section 307).

      Therefore, the bill eliminates almost every safeguard meant to protect against fraud and give voters confidence in election results.

      it goes on and on like this https://thefederalist.com/2021/03/08/15-insane-things-in-democrats-h-r-1-bill-to-corrupt-elections-forever/

  42. I want every single person who is eligible to vote be able to do so if they choose to do so. At the same time, I want to be able to trust that each ballot cast is cast by an eligible voter, who is voting their own ballot, in the district in which they legally reside as citizens, and that they are voting once and only once.

    I want the counting methods to be repeatable and auditable, to help ensure that only valid ballots cast by actual eligible voters are counted.

    I want the people doing the counting (or running the counting machines) to be impartial, or since there can be no such thing, at least have equal number of partisans working each step (sort of like solving the problem by “one of you gets to cut the cake, the other gets first pick”, which tends to result in *precisely* even slices). A good friend pointed out that it’s hard for them to be impartial, so we at least want them to be honest and to follow the law and procedures.

    I feel like the actions in HR1 are 100% going in the wrong direction for engendering trust in the system.

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  45. I’m reminded of this story from WSJ some years back, as the apparent thought processes used by Democrats:

    As Isaac Pollak, an ardent Republican, kissed his wife goodbye before heading out on a business trip to Asia several years ago, he handed her his absentee ballot for the coming presidential election and asked her to mail it.

    Bonnie Pollak, a Democrat, weighed her options. Should she be loyal to her spouse, respect his legal right and mail the ballot? Or remain faithful to her deeply held beliefs and suppress his vote?

    “It was a real dilemma,” says Ms. Pollak, 58 years old, a student in a doctoral program in social welfare who lives in Manhattan. “I decided to do the right thing.”

    Mrs. Pollack threw the ballot away.

  46. lol at what point do red states the size of European countries decide they really don’t need a federal government anymore?

    the old reasons are fading away… no Soviet Union, no Nazis, no Imperial Japanese, the ChiComs just want to sell us stuff, and AQ isn’t a conventional threat

  47. I’m sorry, Reason, are you:

    1. Blind,
    2. Stupid, or
    3. Evil?

    Other than the people arrested for voter fraud, the videos of voter fraud, all the affidavits of voter fraud, and the breaking of laws by making up the rules as they went, here’s an article that you, Reason, keep ignoring:

    https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

  48. Georgia Republicans Aim to Restrict ‘Voting’ by Mail

    FTFY, Eric. No charge.

  49. If the government doesn’t trust mail-order gun sales, how can the people trust a mail-order government?

    I wonder if the people arguing against ID to prove eligibility to vote would want the pilot of their jetliner to have never had to prove that he or she is the person whose name is on the pilot’s license they showed to get the job.

  50. Voter fraud is perfectly acceptable as long as you’re able to hide it. The important thing is to not get caught.

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