Election 2020

Trump Promotes a Doomed Electoral Vote Challenge As Even Diehard Supporters Admit He Lost

The strategy of lodging objections under the Electoral Count Act has been tried before, but it has never succeeded.


It's "too soon to give up," says President Donald Trump, slamming Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R–Ky.) for finally admitting that Joe Biden won last month's election. Why too soon? Trump's last-gasp attempt to pull an election-reversing rabbit out of his hat involves a doomed plan to challenge Electoral College votes from five battleground states on January 6, when a joint session of Congress will meet to officially tabulate those results.

Under the 12th Amendment, "the electors shall meet in their respective states" and "vote by ballot for President and Vice President," which happened on Monday. Those signed and certified results are then sent to the president of the Senate (in this case, Vice President Mike Pence), who "shall, in the presence of the Senate and the House of Representatives, open all the certificates." The votes "shall then be counted."

Under the Electoral Count Act, any member of Congress can object to the results from a particular state, but such objections are considered only if they are backed by at least one member from each chamber. If that happens, the House and the Senate meet separately to vote on the objection, which has to be approved by a majority in both chambers to reject the challenged electoral votes.

Rep. Mo Brooks (R–Ala.) intends to challenge the electoral votes from "various states that, in my judgment, have such flawed election systems that their vote counts are unworthy of our ratification." During an interview with Fox Business host Lou Dobbs on Monday, Brooks presented his Trump-endorsed plan as consistent with historical practice.

"It's happened many times in the past," Brooks said. "Apparently, some folks have not done their history. By way of example, the Democrats in the House tried it in 2017 when they tried to strike Alabama's votes for Donald Trump. Georgia, the same way, the House Democrats tried to strike it. Barbara Boxer tried to strike Ohio for George Bush back in 2005, so this is not unusual."

The operative word here is tried. Congress has not actually rejected any electoral votes since it approved the Electoral Count Act in 1887. So far no senator has come forward to support Brooks' effort, and during a conference call yesterday McConnell implored his Republican colleagues not to do so. Sen. Ron Johnson (R–Wis.), who had toyed with the idea, yesterday told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel he does not plan to lodge any objections. "Something would have to surface that would call into question the legitimacy of the election," Johnson said.

That's a pretty striking statement from a diehard Trump supporter who is today holding a hearing about election "irregularities." Johnson distinguished between those concerns and the idea, tirelessly promoted by the president, that systematic fraud enabled Joe Biden to steal the election. "All I'm trying to do is hold a very upfront, straightforward hearing talking about what controls there are in place, what fraud does occur, what can we do to prevent fraud in the future," Johnson said. "I haven't seen anything that would convince me that the results—the overall national result—would be overturned."

Even if Brooks could persuade a senator to support his objections, the results of votes on them are a foregone conclusion, since Democrats control the House and at least 18 Republican senators (including Johnson) have acknowledged Biden's victory. The New York Times reports that McConnell is keen to "stave off a messy partisan spectacle on the floor of the House that could divide Republicans at the start of the new Congress, forcing them to choose between showing loyalty to Mr. Trump and protecting the sanctity of the electoral process."

Evidently that is exactly what Trump wants to see, which illustrates once again how his interests diverge from those of the party he continues to dominate. The GOP "must finally learn to fight," he tweeted last night. "People are angry!"

Republicans are angry, of course, largely because of Trump's insistence that he actually won the presidential election by a landslide, a fact that would be apparent but for a vast criminal conspiracy that denied him his rightful victory. In the six weeks since the election, Trump has not provided any credible evidence to back up that fanciful charge, as even Johnson has finally acknowledged. Yet polls indicate that most Trump supporters still believe the election was stolen.

Even as he vowed to continue his vain attempt to overturn the election, Trump retweeted a statement from evangelist Franklin Graham that conceded his defeat. Graham's comments, which he posted on Facebook, no doubt appealed to Trump because they were full of praise for him. But they ended this way: "President Trump will go down in history as one of the great presidents of our nation, bringing peace and prosperity to millions here in the U.S. and around the world. May God bless him, Melania, and their family, as God leads him to the next chapter in his life."

Next chapter? According to Trump, he won reelection by a landslide, and he has "tremendous evidence" to prove it. Why is Franklin Graham ready to give up and join the "surrender caucus"?

NEXT: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo Bans Sale of Confederate Flags, Despite Knowing This Has First Amendment Problems

Election 2020 Campaigns/Elections Voting Fraud Conspiracy Theories Electoral College Congress Donald Trump Joe Biden

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315 responses to “Trump Promotes a Doomed Electoral Vote Challenge As Even Diehard Supporters Admit He Lost

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  2. This is your daily reminder that Jacob Sullum is obviously practicing brown envelope journalism. I’m going to post this in every article he writes on this topic.

    Jacob, you’ve now written a whopping 28 articles screaming about this single topic in just one fucking month. The last one was 12 mere hours ago.

    How many articles did you, or Reason as a whole, ever write about the Uighur holocaust? Literal honest-to-goodness fucking slaves are making Disney toys and NBA jerseys?

    Or pay for play, the Biden laptop, and the China connection?

    Or the Obama spy scandal? Even Nixon never used the FBI, CIA, the Director of National Intelligence, and members of the Justice Department and the State Department to gather dirt on the opposition political party.

    Or the the 126 congressmen who supported the Texas lawsuit?

    Or the Abraham Accords + Bahrain, Morocco and Sudan? Peace between the Jews and Arabs got how many articles?

    Or the Serbia-Kosovo deal?
    Was it 28?

    How many articles did Reason publish on the First Step Act? Prison reform is incredibly important to libertarians. It got a handful of mentions, but nowhere near 28.

    Or the obvious superiority of the USMCA over NAFTA? Or even about the USMCA?

    Or about North Korean rapprochement?

    Did Reason write 28 articles about the Taliban peace agreement? The end of a 20 year war. 15? 10? 5? 1? or maybe fucking zero?

    There were shitloads of articles about Trump’s tarriffs, but how many about the massive deregulation that just took place?

    You and your pals have made it obvious, Jacob, as to what you really are, and it’s disgusting.

    1. lol

    2. “I’m going to post this in every article he writes”

      Please do…Sullum’s obsession is more than a bit suspicious. Why does he protest so much? If the fraud accusations had no evidence it wouldn’t be worth reporting on before long. Yet here we are…

      1. A statistical or forensic audit would surely end in the result Sullum wants.

        1. About the sixth time I’ve asked this: please describe exactly (no hand waving) you want done in an audit.

          1. Let’s start with logs of the adjudicated ballots

            1. Oops, they were right here just a second ago. Oh well, what difference, at this point, does it make?

              1. Some fraud happened. Biden is now president. Nothing to see here.

                1. Yup. Biden is now president. This debacle of an election–from all sides–was a major remaining hurdle to the Democunts grabbing all possible power. Up next will certainly come packing the court, and when they win handily, and a bit magically, in Georgia, nothing will stop them.

                  There was absolutely some fraud in this election, because there always is. Enough to tip the outcome? Maybe, maybe not. What’s fascinating is that the left was able to almost completely infiltrate the media–to the point where they buried all negative stories about their candidate and continually savaged Trump (much of it deserved, some of it not, and any good things he did were similarly buried)–AND YET, Biden only barely squeaked by, fraud or no fraud.

                  Shows that, thankfully, the American people aren’t totally brainwashed by only one of these stupid parties. They *are* brainwashed into thinking those two mobs are their only choice, and people like Sullum just make it worse.

            2. In which state?

              1. All of them, ideally, but MI, AZ, NV, WI, PA, and GA at minimum.

          2. Shut up cunt.

          3. The audit was done in one Michigan county, but apparently you’re so fucking clueless that you’re unaware that the audit was done, blocked, and ordered released.

          4. A full forensic audit. Match every signature. If any data has been thrown out so it can’t be done, then redo the election in that state.

            1. Who is going to do the work of matching every signature? You clearly don’t trust the people who did it the first time around, so who are you going to trust this time?

      2. Because they are the most viewed and commented upon articles on the site? Do you understand how this works?

        1. Most commented upon, maybe. Most viewed? I doubt it. Keep in mind that most visitors here ignore the blather in the articles and skip right to the comments.

      3. “If the fraud accusations had no evidence it wouldn’t be worth reporting on before long.”

        Over 50 inept lawsuits supported by the President of the United States, members of his cabinet and White House staff, advanced by members of the Senate and the House, and often initiated by a handful of disgruntled state officials with the goal of rendering void over 80-million votes cast in a presidential election is most certainly newsworthy. In fact, it’s going in the history books. Students will be learning of this shitshow for decades — no centuries to come.

        1. You gotta really break it down for these dumb asses.

          Here’s how text books are gonna look 50 years from now:
          Trump cultists = bad guys.

          1. In 50 years we are going to look at Trump Cultists the same way we look at the supporters of Segregation in the 60s. It’s going to be hard for people to believe that once upon a time, not too long ago, people actually were like that, and actually believed that.

            And before the Cultists start trying to play Whatabout with this, yes, I know that Segregation was the Democratic Party’s baby. This is not as much of a gotcha as you think it is, considering that I am not a member of or supporter of the Democratic Party.

            1. Wait, segregation is coming back, and it’s being promoted by the progressives. So just what are you saying?

              1. Sigh, even when you try and preemptively address a Trump Cultists talking points, they still just go ahead and post them anyway.

                1. “iT’s A cULt, eVeRyBoDy!!!”

                2. When are leftists going to learn to vary their talking points so as to appear even slightly less like a hivemind?

                3. Take your gaslighting and shove it up your ass.

            2. “Not a member or supporter of the Democratic Party”.

              Low believability rating.

              1. “I’m totes not on Team Blue, for realz, guys!”

          2. No they won’t

        2. “…rendering void over 80-million votes cast…”
          It’s just that we don’t believe that all those 80 million votes came from 80 million distinct individuals.
          And the “winners” doing all they could to make sure we couldn’t see that they were and to stop any meaningful exploration of that belief makes us certain that it didn’t happen that way.
          You can throw around all the numbers you want, but without showing, to our satisfaction, that the recorded votes didn’t come from various methods of fraud, we just don’t believe it.
          And all these courts, not willing to look at what evidence we have, doesn’t make that any different.

      4. Maybe because of the danger to our democracy. To put it bluntly, if election results can be overturned without any proof being offered then we are headed towards civil war. Trump’s legal team have had numerous court appearances and to date have presented no evidence of substantial fraud. In the latest case in Wisconsin, the team stipulated to the fact that there was no substantial fraud. I am certain there is fraud going on. But it is the fraud of Donald Trump milking his supporters for all the money he can get between now and January 20 from them. They are being duped.

        1. Except that we are not a Democracy – we are a Representative Republic. Swaying the election did not take widespread fraud, relatively speaking – just enough in a few key large Democrat-controlled cities in swing states did the trick.

        2. “if election results can be overturned without any proof being offered”
          There has been proof offered, the leftist hivemind has simply followed their master’s orders and completely ignored it.

          ” then we are headed towards civil war.”
          This is what we keep trying to warn you about.
          That is the inevitable fucking result of destroying people’s livelihoods, unleashing political terrorism for months on end, then blatantly and clumsily stealing an election.
          You have no standing to bitch.
          You deserve no mercy, no quarter.

        3. If you think there isn’t any proof, either you’re mentally retarded or you’re deliberately ignoring the evidence.

          1. There’s no proof. Kindly shut the fuck up, cunt.

            1. The “Back To Business As Usual Club” appreciates your loyalty…

    3. There used to be a libertarian publication called Reason that actually published libertarian-oriented articles. Then it transmogrified into something else….much less than it was.

      Katherine Mangu-Ward….Wake the fuck up.

      1. She woke the fuck up and took the entire organization with her.

      2. Being a libertarian doesn’t mean kissing Trump’s ass. I have conversed with you before, and you’ve admitted you’re not a libertarian. So why do you care anyway?

    4. Are you, like, a Canadian? Kind of weird how wrapped up in partisan American politics you are.

      1. Why are you here? As a progressive, you can’t be an American. Those things are mutually exclusive.

        1. I’m a libertarian.

          1. And I’m the King of England, leftist.

            1. I almost said, “no you’re Tulpa.” But you honestly seem dumber than him. If that’s even possible.

              1. Idiots like you think everyone else is an idiot.

                1. You’re certainly an idiot.

          2. You are not a libertarian, you are a leftist as defined by your desire for Biden’s policies over Trump’s.

      2. Gaslighting the newbies, huh White Knight? I’ve answered you a dozen times already and you know.

        For those reading this that don’t know, this piece of shit fifty-center tries to attack people’s nationalities whenever he can’t formulate an argument.

        This is my standard response to his nativist cheapshots:

      3. You’re a xenophobia too. Congrats on being a leftist xenophobe WK.

    5. The Mid-East accords are LANDMARK deals that the Democrats are going to undermine as they run back to Iran.

      Woulda been nice to see this sort of scorn reserved for Trump during the failed Obama years.

      1. The normalization of relations between Israel and some Muslim nations that already had peaceful relations with Israeli is a minor achievement, in many cases bought at the cost of selling said Muslim nations advanced fighter jets.

        1. Much better to give terrorist supporting regimes pallets of cash to buy IEDs to murder civilians with, right.

          1. 2 wrongs =/= right

            1. Because diplomatic relations don’t really count for anything to retarded fucks like you.

              1. Ripping up the Iran deal just to spite the previous president is the opposite of “diplomatic relations.”

              2. I think the peace deals are nice enough, a positive gesture. But I doubt very much will change in practice in the relationship between Bahrain and Israel.

        2. ” that already had peaceful relations with Israeli”

          Hold up you lying fuck. That’s not remotely true and you know it. Almost all of them were, to quote Morocco for example, “In a state of war with the Zionist entity” just two years ago.

          You are such a dishonest piece of shit. I can hardly believe how disgusting you are.

          I’m copying this to post every time we need a reminder of how shitty you are.

          1. What form, exactly, did the “state of war” between the UAE and Israel entail? A pretty low-key war, as far as I can tell.

        3. Posts like the above really highlight your stupidity and utter lack of character, white knight.
          Arab nations establishing official diplomatic relations with Israel, thus acknowledging their Israeli legitimacy and the right to exist, is a big deal.
          That’s why some Moroccans are rioting, but nobody expects someone like you to be aware of what’s going on in the world.

        4. The normalization of relations between Israel and some Muslim nations that already had peaceful relations with Israeli is a minor achievement…

          If it was so minor, why wasn’t it don’t before during Obama’s administration?

      2. How many hundreds of thousands of dead Syrians are there because of the fucked-up Obama / (H) Clinton policies? What a body count. I think it’s more than COVID, if we are making this into a contest.

        But yeah, not a peep from the media on that, only a few “principled” lefties (like Jeffrey Sachs) dared speak out against it… and yet he even voted for the criminal.

    6. i bet if trump would just act like an adult and admit he lost, we would not have to see any more……..

      1. You mean like Gore in the 2000 election? An adult stands behind their words. Gore conceded… and then changed his mind, like a child. Much like Obama and the red line in the sand, people like that are not to be trusted. (Nor is Trump, but, just sayin’…)

        1. you do understand that there are some actual libertarians on here that are not Obama or Gore fans, right?

          1. Yes, but you’re a fan and you’re not actually a libertarian.

            1. because….. i don’t think freedom means you must act like a fucking retard?

            2. Prove he’s not a libertarian.

        2. Gore had conceded by the time the EC voted. Trump still hasn’t. Also Florida in 2000 was legitimately close. Only a few hundred votes separated Bush and Gore.

    7. Impotence signalling is much funnier than virtue signalling.

      1. Equally pathetic, though.

    8. I support this rant. Please continue to do this.

      Sullum is a pig fucker.

      1. Well, he would be a pig fucker, except the pigs run away from him squealing in fear.

    9. Personally I think Reason should kick Jacob out on his ass and hire you to write instead.

    10. Perhaps you should form a whataboutist party and run candidates in elections.

    11. This, and it should be said that Reason is one of the more balanced outlets (not really much of an accomplishment though, Reason).

    12. You seem to think that the opposition was never wiretapped before… actually LBJ was wiretapping the Vietnamese and discovered that Nixon was in contact with them, persuading them to put off making a deal so that he could campaign on LBJ’s failure.

      So, not unprecedented at all.

  3. Oh come on Jacob! The entire world is out to get Trump! It’s plain as day!

    1. I know you’re being your name, but you’d be a fool NOT to think this.

      1. Fuck off Tulpa

        1. Kill yourself Kiddie Raper.

          1. There you go projecting again, you sick fuck.

            1. You should try huffing the gas fumes instead of trying lamely to gaslight.

              1. You should learn what that word means.

                1. Idiots like you always overestimate their own competence.

                  Which junior college did you drop out of?

                  1. Which kindergarten did you drop out of?

    2. God Himself is on the side the of the conspirators and evil doers, apparently.

      1. BTW, how’s Belial doing, Brandybuck?

  4. RESIST!
    Not my president

  5. Sullum’s gunning for a staff slot at The Atlantic, but doesn’t realize that his editorials aren’t nearly long enough.

    1. There has been a lot of good writing at the atlantic over their long history.

      It wouldn’t kill the cultists to get a different perspective once in a while.

      1. ^deliberately misses the point^

        1. No, I think 70% of republicans are missing the point.

          1. A swing and a miss.

          2. facepalm.jpg

          3. No, you don’t think, and that’s the problem.

      2. Okay sqrsly.

        1. “iT A cULt eVerYb0Dy!!”

    2. I agree with Sullum in this, but it’s also clear that most if not all Reason writers see their dream jobs as being with mainstream media like the Atlantic, NYT, Wapo, etc., and thus they avoid criticizing them. The Atlantic today is a woke institution gone mad for censorship.

  6. Had the Republican removed Trump from office when they had the chance they would not be looking at the problems they have now. they might well be looking at the inauguration of Mike Pence as President. Instead they have the dead weight of an ex-President looking to drag them down.

    1. It would be even better for the country though if all the democrats resigned.

      1. Or died from covid

        1. Cause doesn’t matter

  7. ANOTHER piece?

    You wanted us to donate money to give money to this idiot to write more of this shit?

    Fuck giving this shit rag a dime.

    1. Even if you agreed with the dipshit, one or two articles is enough for the money he gets. I’m curious how many talking points he copypasta’s into his articles.

    2. If Trump is trying a new 11-D chess move, then why is Sullum not allowed to write a new piece about it?

      1. He didn’t write a ‘new’ piece, he rehashed the same bullshit he’s been spewing the last 22 articles he wrote on the same subject.

  8. The Democrat machine in Philadelphia, Atlanta, Milwaukee, and Detroit stole the election fair and square. It is indeed time to give up.
    Of course, no one involved in the rigging should ever be brought to task. It was part of the war against voter suppression, even if the voter was dead.

    1. But at least we are on a level playing field of dishonesty now. The courts agreed with the D’s that voter fraud is legal now. So the R’s have a firm precedent to rely upon to replicate what the D’s did. And karam’s a bitch!

      1. Yep. The R’s had better adapt to the new normal of fraudulent elections or become extinct. Welcome to Venezuela!

        1. Fraud and violence: that’s the lesson of Democrat victory.
          Time to play by the rules they set and use their tactics against them.

  9. I don’t understand the need to write this many articles on one subject, unless you were trying to convince yourself that “Trump lost fairly”.

    I also don’t understand why the people who are adamant “Trump lost fairly” are also adamantly opposed to real vote audits and giving Trump’s claims the same level of “investigative journalism” they displayed when it came to RussiaRussiaRussia.

    1. Because they have something to hide.

      As for Sullum: The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

    2. Makes sense if he’s auditioning for an MSM writing job. They need propaganda writers.

      A lot of the writing at Reason makes more sense if you understand that the writers might want an MSNBC or CNN or Wapo someday.

    3. Well, we havent had the incumbent, massively unpopular prez, rallying his base of retards to send him money and/or try to overturn an election because people dont like him, ever in the past.

      So, Im cool with 2 articles a day on this. 3 would be fine too. Better just to let the retards know that they truly did lose, and they will continue to do so while following a lifelong loser. They need to hear it. It needs to be drilled into their heads.

      In terms of their business model, more people likely clicked on those 2 articles and commented on them, driving up traffic and revisits for commenting, and creating more of a buzz than, say, an article that would say “weed is cool, and stuff”. So the market is pretty much telling them, this is what the people want and you will make money off it. Market good, amirite?

      Unless the retard cultists stop coming here to comment-spam and copypasta all over every article their “MASSIVE ELEKSHUN FRODD EVUDUNCE!!!”…but I think noNardz and PussyAz will keep coming back every hour or so to give another click and another “for SURE!” piece of evidence than the evil lizard soros people stole the election…also Venezuela, chavez, something something Bill gates, fauci, antifa? Ya that should work for them

      1. “we havent… massively unpopular… base of retards… because people dont like him, ever in the past… Im cool with 2… 3 would be fine too… retards… lifelong loser. They need to hear it. It needs to be drilled into their heads… business model… more people likely clicked on those 2 articles… “weed is cool, and stuff”…. Market good, amirite?
        the retard cultists… noNardz and PussyAz… evil lizard soros… people stole the election…also Venezuela, chavez, something something Bill gates, fauci, antifa? Ya that should work for them”

        Lol, Hank and Sqrlsy had a baby.

        1. A mutant baby that fell into a vat of toxic waste.

  10. “It’s happened many times in the past,” Brooks said. “Apparently, some folks have not done their history. By way of example, the Democrats in the House tried it in 2017 when they tried to strike Alabama’s votes for Donald Trump. Georgia, the same way, the House Democrats tried to strike it. Barbara Boxer tried to strike Ohio for George Bush back in 2005, so this is not unusual.”

    So let me get this straight: we have a history of democrats trying to disenfranchise voters and overthrow our democracy? Traitors!

    1. But nobody reports on it when the Democrats do it. It’s only traitorous and newsworthy when Republicans do it.

      1. Why wasn’t anyone screaming about norms?

      2. There’s a little difference that you may not have noticed: this time the incumbent President is behind the effort.

        1. Never again protest to me that you aren’t a democrat. This is the most shameless and absurd defense of double standards I’ve seen.

          Either it is right to cast aside the votes of Ohio or not. Whether it is Trump or Boxer doesn’t matter. They are both trying to right a political “wrong” as they see it. To say that when the Democrats did it it was somehow legitimate is ridiculous.

          1. I didn’t say it was legitimate. It was not an OK thing for Democrats to do.

            I implied (but didn’t say explicitly) that the Democratic efforts were more futile, doomed and obscure because they weren’t backed by the incumbent President himself.

            1. You really aren’t fooling anyone you know.

        2. Last time tbe sitting administration simply spied on then fabricated “evidence” to frame the incoming administration and its members.
          The presumptive president (s)elect proposed the fraudulent charge used to destroy General Flynn’s civil rights.
          Eat a bullet, traitor.

        3. That’s an interesting difference but I don’t see how that matters.

          1. About 1000 times the effect of undermining democracy.

            1. Oh, is that why you tolerate democrats undermining democracy but not republicans? Because congressmen just aren’t important enough?

              Quibbling is lame.

              1. When did I tolerate Democrats undermining democracy?

                1. Not you per se, just people like you in general: democrats, the media, people who ostensibly care deeply about disenfranchisement and throwing out undesired election results, etc.

                  1. It’s a bit of a tricky answer from WK. In his eyes nothing the DNC can do would undermine democracy so he can tolerate it all.

                    1. While the very existence of Trump supporters is a threat to democracy.
                      It’s a fanatic.

                    2. If people were always voting the way they should, they’d vote for Democrats every time, so he sees nothing wrong with Democrat fraud, after all, it’s just making things The Way They Should Be.

    2. it was BS when they did it, it will be BS this time….. difference is that nobody ever actually thought it could work before, as the whole thing is just a political dog and pony show.

      1. So the democrats really didn’t mean it? That’s a very convenient, lame excuse.

        1. did you miss the part where i said it was BS? that was not meant to excuse them it was explaining why nobody paid much attention. it was not being promoted by the president.

          1. “Democrats are bad, but Republicans are So Much Worse!”

            Bored now.

  11. Jacob Sullum’s TDS is even worse than the Trump haters at far left wing propaganda outlets CNN, MSNBC, Daily Beast, Vox, PBS, NY Times and WaPo.

    Perhaps he’s auditioning for another job, but he’s destroyed any credibility he once had as a libertarian. Sadly, so has Reason.

    1. Then stop commenting here, moron.

  12. Speaking of fighting a losing battle, if you live here, this will be the most infuriating thing you may ever see in your life. If you don’t live here, it’s a powerful cautionary tale. (it’s as if a million Mike Riggs cried out, and then were silenced).

    Long documentary, but for those of you with short attention spans, the first one minute and 42 seconds will give you the Cliff’s notes summary.

    1. Will the last sane person leaving Seattle turn off the lights, please?

  13. Sullum apparently prefers leaders who surrender easily. That’s what (some) Libertarians do: make proclamations, then immediately surrender to socialism.

    1. If it saves the life of one meth addict, it’ll be worth it.

    2. The retards call it libertarian globalism now. Its basically communism with a pinky swear not to kill hundreds of millions.

      1. Don’t forget the blinders that only see bad things to the right and never to the left. The woke version of peril-sensitive sunglasses.

    3. Meanwhile there are some serious issues with Biden and the way the media obviously lied about Hunter that aren’t getting due attention.

  14. Mr. Sullum apparently has a thing for beating dead horses.

    1. And what is Trump doing?

      1. Representing the American people, and currently keeping them from cutting your worthless tbroat.

        1. Like all the threats of violence today, Nardz. Really classy.

          1. I hope someday he gets the help he needs. These violent fantasies he has are really quite sad.

            1. To be fair, WK really is pretty worthless.

            2. What’s sad is you don’t understand that there are tens of millions of Americans with the same sentiments I express, and our patience has limits.

          2. Hey, where do you live? I want to steal all your stuff then point and laugh at you when you get upset about it.

  15. Sullum going 2 a day for this bullshit?

    1. It’s easier than actually doing research on something that needs an actual libertarian viewpoint. I’ll admit it, I’m lazy too, but I’m not getting paid to be lazy.

  16. Geez, Sullum, keep whacking that ant hill so as to watch the ants scurry around.

    He’ll still be on the Trump election reaction beat in 2025.

    1. Don’t worry, in 2022, 2023, and 2024, he’ll be pushing the latest leftist conspiracy theory about Trump not actually leaving office when his Presidential term is up.

  17. I’m starting to worry about Jacob.

    This is getting silly.

    1. You Canadians have serious issues to deal with.

  18. I posted this last time, but no one actually challenged me on the analysis, so I’ll post it again:
    So, for the sake of argument, let’s say there was enough fraud in the election to change the result. Let’s look at the immediate results:
    1. A few people are arrested.
    2. The cheating works.
    3. Most forms of media refuse to recognize the existence of fraud, and try to suppress all info on it.
    4. The GOP establishment doesn’t care because the cheating only looked like it affected the POTUS, and they don’t like him either.
    5. The courts punt hard by basically saying “no standing” (a cop-out).
    6. The rules that the State legislatures and Governors made up as they went along stand (regardless of what the words of the States’ Constitutions actually say).

    What people aren’t looking at is the long term results:
    1. Cheating is rewarded. There is now an incentive to cheat.
    2. Those who are most willing to cheat (those without an outside moral force) will now keep cheating.
    3. There will be nothing done at the national level to reduce this, and most States will be unable or unwilling to fix it either.
    4. The States that either don’t cheat, or move to reduce cheating will quickly learn to hate those that do cheat.
    5. The biggest cheaters will “win” every national election and nothing too bad will happen to them.
    6. Ergo, the people who won’t cheat will lose their ability to change the government by playing by the rules.
    7. If the non-cheaters want to change their government, they’ll have to break the rules. If they remain non-cheaters, then that means they’ll have to get a “divorce” from the cheaters.
    8. (The end result is lots of dead people.)

    But, perhaps most chilling:

    Assuming, for the sake of argument, that there was no cheating, or that it was too little to affect the result:
    There is so very much evidence (video and sworn testimony), that was ignored, that any would-be cheaters have very, very little reason to cheat in the next election!

    I was assuming this was simply an “If A, then B” statement. I was wrong. It’s also an “If not-A, then B”!

    Regardless of cheating or no cheating, why wouldn’t the cheaters keep cheating to “win” future elections?

    Any issues with this analysis?

    -An An-Cap who didn’t vote for any R or D

    1. very, very little reason to *not* cheat in the next election!

    2. After Biden is inaugurated, I could see the Dems and/or RINOs doing something like…..

      “Suddenly” realizing, oh golly gee willikers guys! There was some fraud in the last election! We need to regulate the machines so this doesn’t happen again. Luckily, we know about these super totes secure machines called, um, Supremacy. Lets force every state to use them. Phew! We saved our democracy, that was a close one.

      1. Of course this comes after Biden pardons everyone who was arrested after Trump enfoces the EO. One thing at a time.

        1. You mean the Executive Order that authorizes economic sanctions if there is foreign meddling in our elections? Arrests would be an interesting outcome of that.

          1. I was being hyperbolic, I don’t know what will happen obviously. I do think some people are going down. Especially in Georgia

            1. I live in Georgia, and I used to defend Kemp. No longer.

              He’s either incompetent or corrupt (and I’m not ruling out both), and thus unworthy of the office he holds.

      2. And the end result would be States refusing, and lots of dead people.

        I’m honestly trying to figure a way out of this one without lots of dead people. I’m failing.

        1. Submission to leftist/globalist totalitarianism.
          Violence, or completely sacrifice your every freedom.
          Those are the only two options.
          Though, it should be noted, the latter choice will lead to mass democide.

          1. Half right. The second will likely lead to mass democide, but the first will almost certainly lead to more democide (in the long run).

        2. Yeah, I’ve been seeing the phrase “Color Revolution” around a lot. I think China is looking forward to our in-fighting as much as they do a Biden presidency.

        3. “I’m honestly trying to figure a way out of this one without lots of dead people…”

          1, the Right-leaning working and middle class, as Orwell sagely observed in [I]Animal Farm[/I], will put their head down, put the bit back between their teeth, and go back to work, plowing the fields. Right, Boxer? No bloodshed at all. For now.

          If they don’t though… Then the Supreme Court had the last, best chance to stop this, and they threw it away without even entertaining arguments.

          I really don’t think the people in Reason staff’s social circles realize just how pissed off a sizable portion of Flyover Country is about this, and the actions of the last nine months. That portion will never have a better moment to use violence to redress their grievances than they do right now. It only gets worse after the weaponized criminal justice and intelligence organizations get the momentum on starting to neutralize centers of dissent.

          The Right isn’t going to be able to vote their way out of this. Not after 15-30 million new immigrants get a pathway to citizenship over the next two years. After that, the Democratic Party won’t need fraud to maintain a majority. (Though I wouldn’t be surprised if they continued.)

          It is a truly frightening time.

          1. So, slow tyranny (that leads to many dead bodies), or quick “divorce” (that leads to many dead bodies).

            I don’t like the results of this analysis…

            1. I don’t know, ace. Read the writings of people giddy about the ‘Great Reset.’ Utopian dreams like those usually roll on a road paved by a lot of people’s bones. These people want you to be a serf. Tied to the Manor. (Or your communal living pod.) Full stop. They admit it in as many words.

              A United States with its working and middle classes, owning property and businesses, and exhibiting agency and freedom, doesn’t fit into that scheme. State Governors arbitrarily and tyrannically controlling the lives and activities of their constituents, on the other hand seem to. Along with rioters being allowed free reign to burn, loot, and murder people. Finally, electoral fraud is now not only tacitly encouraged, but you’re called a conspiracy theorist for pointing it out.

              None of this incredibly bad behavior, without recent precedent in US history, is being punished. It’s been rewarded. Accordingly, you should not only expect these kinds of transgressive behaviors to continue, but you should expect the line to be pushed even further. To where? I couldn’t begin to tell you.

              1. Unbuckle your tinfoil hat. It’s cutting off blood flow to your head. Dumbfucks like you (of both tribes) that believe any bullshit dangled in your face without any proof are ruining my country. Go fuck yourself.

                1. Go die in a fire, retarded leftist. People like you are why this country is going to hell in a handbasket. Just admit you want to suck Biden’s cock already.

                  1. Cry more, snowflake.

                    1. I’m not crying, I’m reloading, leftist fuckwit.

          2. The thing is that the Ds are so terrible that they’re losing people who used to reliably vote for them. In 2014, how many more people in the cities are going to wake up to the fact that life under D rule isn’t all they promise?

            1. “In 2014, how many more people in the cities are going to wake up to the fact that life under D rule isn’t all they promise?”

              I think you meant 2024, but to your point: if the same people are counting the votes, then as now, and fraud isn’t punished or deterred, then what does it matter whether some people wake up or not? Are Caracas residents awake to what a titanic shitbag Chavez and Maduro are? Does it matter if they are?

            2. Not enough to make up for the fact that Republicans are dying of old age.

    3. Most of the state court results were decided on the merits. I think. The Trump campaign lost because they didn’t present evidence.

      The Supreme Court denied standing to Texas, not Trump. Which was the right decision. How the hell does Texas get say in what Michigan does absent being directly impacted, which in this case they weren’t.

      1. Top Men, so trustworthy and incorruptible

        1. “Now we must steal the election based on flimsy lies! For Trump! Hail!”

          1. Can’t steal an election that was already stolen, Tony. It can only be stolen back. Then again, I don’t expect your syphilis-ridden brain to understand that.

      2. 1. If so, then they are very, very incompetent. There is a lot of well documented evidence. And, even if true, it’s clear the courts will punt.
        2. Again, if the citizens and States in the country don’t have “standing” to ensure the election of the POTUS is legitimate, then who does? The court punted. (I see why, they don’t want to get involved in this whole mess.)

        1. If the state certifies that their electors were chosen in a manner consistent with state law, then the other states get no say. There are plenty of Republican legislators in every state that are perfectly capable of filing suit to protest.

          Why isn’t that happening? It did in Pennsylvania and I think that lawsuit is still pending. Why not anywhere else?

          1. “If the state certifies that their electors were chosen in a manner consistent with state law, then the other states get no say.”

            If they’re obviously lying? So, as long as a few States lie, then we all have to live under the rule of [enter party here]?

            “There are plenty of Republican legislators in every state that are perfectly capable of filing suit to protest. Why isn’t that happening?”
            1. They have no balls.
            2. Their power comes from people’s worship of democracy. If they bring that into question, they may reduce their own power. Parasitic organizations (or people) will never do that.

            1. At some point it’s more important that you accept an election result than that the election result was perfectly above board.

              Just imagine Biden won fairly. Won’t make any difference anyway, except we don’t have to deal with wannabe insurrectionists in addition to all the other problems your lunatic boyfriend saddled us with.

              1. Tony also tells women being raped to lie back and enjoy it.

              2. “At some point it’s more important that you accept an election result than that the election result was perfectly above board.”

                You let the mask slip a little there…

                If your “enemies” (countrymen) don’t believe they have a peaceful chance to change the government, and they can’t stand it, they will exercise the non-peaceful option. That’s when people start dying.

                I want freedom without death, but that’s looking quite unlikely.

                I really, really hope it doesn’t come to that. Failing that, I hope the “divorce” is as bloodless as possible.

        2. Where was the injury in fact to the State of Texas from the manner in which other states conducted their elections? No injury in fact, no lawsuit.

          1. They were injured because they didn’t like the guy who ended up president. Points for audacity. If the Electoral College weren’t part of the constitution itself I could definitely see a 14th amendment case for it being unconstitutional.

            1. Actually, it is the 14th amendment that should be looked on as unconstitutional, especially since its re-interpretation.

      3. You cannot decide on the merits absent discovery, and—as I was trying to tell John, over a month ago—there wasn’t time. Nor was there the ability to have an audit trail. By design. And outside of past practices.

        If you were a publicly traded company, reasonably expected to be in litigation in the near future, and you obscured evidence the way many of these Secretaries of State did, or flat out committed spoilation, you’d be sanctioned.

        Absent a new Presidential election, with First World electoral safeguards—for which, again, there wasn’t the time—the equitable thing to do would be to disallow the slates of Electors from elections with these kind of evidence of fraud, and ask each state’s legislative body how they wanted to select Electors in accordance with the Constitution of the US, and those respective States. Or let the House deal with it, under the Twelfth.

        They instead chose to ignore the issue, and I guess we’ll get to see what happens.

  19. Honk if you think there was fraud!

    1. Problem is, you can’t honk a little. Fraud? Sure. Probably since ever election since the invention of democracy. But there’s a lot of room between “no fraud” and “rigged voting machines, pallets of ballots, and the Chinese and Iranians teaming up with George Soros and the DNC to hand the election to Biden.”

      1. Yep. There’s altering a few votes here and there, then there’s manually editing the results of 68 percent of the votes cast and deleting the logfiles afterwards, like in that county in Michigan.

        1. Nonsense.

  20. Of course trump is keeping the fire alive if Republicans keep the senate he can say it was all him. He’s also funding his war chest. Frankly it’s a smart tactic. It only fails if stupid people don’t show up to vote in the runoff.

    Really dumb article and analysis I expected better.

  21. Yes, he’s going to lose.

    Nevertheless, given the indications of fraud we have, he should use every available legal avenue to challenge the election results.

    The more this stays in the news the better. The more this stays in the news the more people will begin to realize that there is a problem.

    Hopefully, Republicans will get off their lazy butts and do something about America’s piss poor voting and election system.

    1. Or you could try not constantly lying about everything.

      If your ideas are so good why does every slimy word out of your mouths have to be a lie?

      1. Fuck off, Tony. The only person on the planet that lies more than you is Satan.

        1. Satan doesn’t exist, retard.

          1. Satan is a metaphor, a personification of the concept of evil. So, in that sense, Satan exists.

      2. If your ideas are so good why does every slimy word out of your mouths have to be a lie?

        You should ask Harris and Biden that.

  22. it is all fun and games until trump’s BS costs the GOP those senate seats they SHOULD easily win in Georgia……. not a smart chance to take for this snowball’s chance in hell BS.

    1. Exactly. These fucking idiots apparently don’t mind burning down their own party to save face for Trump. They’re about to intentionally make their worst nightmare come true. Gridlock is the best we could hope for at this point but these dumb cocksuckers are about hand to the keys to the kingdom over to the libtards. All for Trumps vanity.

      1. Like there’s a chance of that runoff not being riddled with fraud, too. They’ll just stop counting at 3am again and “find” a fuckton of Democrat votes, again.

        1. Right, ‘losing’ is now a synonym for ‘fraud’ for mentally incompetent idiots like you. Poor fucking snowflake.

          1. How mentally retarded do you have to be to ignore the shit-ton of fraud? SIXTY-EIGHT percent of the votes manually “adjusted” and the logfiles of the adjustments DELETED in the one Michigan county that we’ve actually gotten an audit of?

            Go die in a fire. That way your brain-dead body actually might keep someone warm.

            1. some guy said it on twitter!!!!!! it must be true!!!!! because BS, BS, BS……

              1. The evidence is in the court filings by Republicans, and in publicly available vote counts. Courts may have refused to look at it, but fortunately, this stuff is public in the US, and people will be digging into it over the next months and years.

                1. what you think is evidence is not actually evidence….. and that is why all the court cases failed.

                  1. Judges simply rejected the legal challenges outright. That means that the evidence was never examined in court. So the court decisions say nothing about the strength of the evidence.

  23. Then what’s the problem?

    He ain’t gonna succeed. So you get your ‘return to the status quo’ you wanted.

    Just let the process play out. This is part of the process. Its still within legal bounds. Just let it play out. All this thrashing around the anti-Trumpers are doing – including the calls to just shut this down – just plays into the paranoia.

    The best thing you can do to ensure that the opposition to Biden taking office is minimized is to allow the full process to play out in full view of the public. Then you can point and say ‘see, no shenanigans here’.

    Its why I think it was a mistake for SCOTUS to deny standing. They should have taken the case, let Trump’s team present their arguments – then pointed out that the team presented no actionable arguments and provided no evidence of anything . . . therefore case dismissed. Could have been done in a single long afternoon.

    Now, because they dropped that potato, that just gives the ‘stop the steal’ people ammo for their conspiracy theories.

    Let the courts see the cases, let the courts rule – where they point out the lethal flaws in the cases as presented – in public, then there’s nothing to hold on to.

    But this constant ‘Trump’s wasting everyone’s time’ crap just makes people take notice of *how badly you want the questions to stop*. Which makes them want to ask more questions.

    1. the problem is that there is a runoff election in Georgia the day before this final confirmation of the results. based on the general election results, the republicans should win both of those seats just by maintaining the support they got before from people that voted for them but NOT for Trump…… pushing this risks those candidates being forced to either piss those people off, or piss off trump’s base….. either of which can cost them those seats and hand full control of congress over to the democrats with a democrat in the white house……. they are burning down their own party just to stroke Trump’s ego and avoid admitting he lost.

      1. You think Democrats won’t pull out all the fraud stops to take control of the Senate?

        Did you know the word ‘gullible’ isn’t in the dictionary?

        1. i think enough fucktards are going to be convinced they will that they will stay home and hand them the election without any fraud needed…. that is part of the danger of this election fraud misinformation campaign. the only people buying it are the morons the GOP needs to show up at the polls…..

          1. i think enough fucktards are going to be convinced they will that they will stay home and hand them the election without any fraud needed

            Why don’t “fucktards” like you just STFU and leave other people’s elections to the people involved?

            1. because i actually do want the GOP to win those seats….. apparently more than actual republicans……

              1. because i actually do want the GOP to win those seats

                And that’s why you are pretending that there was no significant election fraud in Georgia? You’re simply lying.

                Republicans have to face up to the fact that (1) there was substantial election fraud in Georgia, and (2) they will have to turn out in such large numbers that even with substantial fraud, they still win.

                1. i believe there was no fraud because there was no fucking fraud. what republicans need to wake up to is that enough people wanted them for senate but not trump for president to make the difference….. and the combination of pissing those people off and convincing at least some others that voting is a waste of time could end up making you lose those senate seats.

      2. they are burning down their own party just to stroke Trump’s ego and avoid admitting he lost.

        GIve up your concern trolling, you’re not fooling anybody.

        In fact, the message Republican voters and Trump understand is that Republican turnout has to be particularly high in order to overcome the “margin of fraud”.

        And the Georgia election will be under a microscope this time around.

        1. you are forgetting that Biden won Georgia…… and all this nonsense is pissing off the people who previously voted for the republican senator but against Trump. this whole fiasco is creating a lose lose situation for those senators that no matter how they respond they alienate some of the support they need.

          1. Biden legally won Georgia; it’s questionable whether he actually received a majority of the votes.

            The only way Republicans are going to take the senate seats if (1) they recognize that they need to turn out in even larger numbers to overcome the evident election fraud that exists in Georgia, (2) the Georgia state government gets its act together and tries to limit the fraud better next time around.

            Pretending that there was no fraud is the surest way for Republicans to lose Georgia.

  24. I hope they do it and here’s why. McConnell doesn’t want to try it because he doesn’t truly represent his state. You might ask “but isn’t it important that he preserve his position and relationship with Biden to affect positive change?” Not in the slightest. Everyone who doesn’t contest the election is making a deal with the devil. They’re saying that their own personal interest in maintaining political power and influence is more important than the needs and desires of their own constituents and the good of the nation. How so? Because there were factually suspicious practices, last minute changes, and inconsistencies that CAN be fixed or improved. We deserve better elections, yet nobody was serious about reform back when it was harmless. We reap what we sow. Elections MUST become more secure at this point. Hopefully Biden will push for this early in his administration.

    It doesn’t matter if there was fraud or not at this point. It’s a red herring that the Democrats focus on because it’s an impossible standard. Nobody is truly equipped to deal with a contested election, not even SCOTUS. It’s all window dressing, sleight of hand, feel good bullshit. We’ll never actually see ballot signatures or match them to real people. We’ll never get a full audit or any semblance of transparency. Democrats oppose voter ID because it makes 2020 possible. Trump would have to do something truly insane, like stage an actual military coup, to ever get the access needed to prove fraud. If there’s fraud, that’s absolutely horrible. Nobody will trust our elections anymore and the US will become a failed state. If he finds out there was no fraud, I think you can finish the sentence. He either abdicates and gets jailed/executed or he tries to maintain power to protect himself. Not good outcomes either way.

    Is the alternative any better though? Most Americans think this election was really weird. It requires suspension of disbelief to think an early dementia moderate who can’t even pay people to pay attention to him outperformed the God Emperor Obama of all people with worse minority turnout. The way Biden “won” was basically impossible and most people don’t accept it, EC or not. Nobody has even tried to offer a plausible explanation for his numbers, probably because they can’t. You don’t lose that many counties, all the bellweathers, OH and FL by such massive margins and then suddenly eek out extremely narrow victories exclusively in cities that have a history of corruption and single-party Democrat administrations. Sorry, not buying it. Couldn’t prove a lot of conspiracies in the past, doesn’t mean they weren’t real. Yeah, people with power do conspire to do evil things. There are always bad apples. The Democrat party is pretty off the rails lately.

    Why doesn’t anyone ask themselves why contesting an election is set up this way? You have no true recourse anywhere except for a revolution. Why make elections so difficult to contest if there’s truly nothing to hide? Why do we castigate people for using their Constitutional rights and require additional layers of security and penalties, but elections should be as unverifiable and loose as possible? What kind of cognitive dissonance do you need to be suffering from to not question a party that advocates for a surveillance state in almost every aspect of civil rights and economic issues, but doesn’t care one bit applying those standards to elections?

    We’re already fucked. The die was cast long ago when we kicked the can down the road and refused to improve election security. No matter what happens, people trust elections less, faith will NOT be restored, nor can it be unless Biden becomes a hero overnight and pushes for increased verification measures. It’s the right thing to do and that’s exactly why everyone should contest this election. Contesting the election will not result in Trump winning, but it will be too in-your-face to ignore. Our elected officials need to put their jobs on the line and stand up for something for once. I have no faith that Biden will create reform on his own. It’s the worst possible scenario for the transitional man who will supposedly heal our nation. He’s just going to make it worse and you will not like what happens next. I know I won’t.

    1. “It doesn’t matter if there was fraud or not at this point. ”

      if you are trying to overturn the result of an election, that had better fucking matter to you…… trying to overturn it for any other reason is trying to destroy the very concept of democracy. I’m sorry, i really didn’t see any reason to continue ready after you dropped this gem.

      1. Fraudulent elections SHOULD be overturned, fucko.

        1. he said he didn’t care if there was fraud, fucko.

      2. That’s the thing though, what does “overturn” mean? Personally, I want the election to be contested and a new one to be held. I have no issues conceptually with VBM and I would love to believe that we actually had substantially higher turnout, but ditch electronic voting and make the counting process public and transparent. Election materials of any type, including envelopes, ballots themselves, signature cards used for verification, etc. should be stored permanently and accessible by any candidate at any time for the purposes of verifying the authenticity of a vote.

        Alternatively, Biden can just go really hard on election integrity. You should not be able to cast a vote in any capacity without some form of human interaction and verification prior to election day. We have so many security technologies that can be utilized for these purposes. Security footage, voice recognition software, fingerprints, DNA, SSNs, voter registration cards…I take voting seriously. If my job was to ensure votes the same way I ensure financial security in my actual job, I would be fired instantly, heavily fined and probably jailed. Our elections are insanely unprofessional and as much as I hate the idiom of “you shouldn’t care if you have nothing to hide,” when it comes to election security, this is a sound philosophy to adopt.

        Every election when I vote, I always bring photo ID and my registration card with me. The fact alone that we mailed out potentially tens of millions of unsolicited ballots to unverifiable individuals and addresses disgusts me. From a fraud perspective, election officials should be criminally liable on that one. If I suspected financial fraud and ignored such obvious warning signs, I would be liable. Why have double standards? Why do we care so much about money or personal information being secured, but not elections? Who has made our elections this way, who keeps them this way, and why?

        We have a lot of questions to ask ourselves going forward and I don’t think anyone is asking them right now.

        1. by overturn, i mean ignore the result and do the opposite…. which is what the trump fanatics are actually pushing for. “fraud” is just the lie they are telling themselves to pretend it is ok.

          there is considerably more transparency than people realize. political parties get a list of every registered voter, where they live, how old they are, and whether they voted in each election. the hypothetical problems would present with hard evidence the republican party would be able to bring forward if there were any validity to any of the claims. they would be able to tell you exactly which ballots were fraudulent. it would not be suspicion and innuendo, they would have hard facts.

          calling for a new election is just a more honest version of sour grapes, because you didn’t like the first outcome. every state has had some level of mail in balloting for years. nothing done this year was new, more people just used it. we don’t need to ignore the law because people don’t like who won.

          1. I’m aware of your first paragraph as I’ve volunteered in local elections before and accessed such records.

            The problem remains chain of custody and actual ballot verification. The ballots don’t exist anymore. The recounts are not audits. They just reconfirm the tally. There is no way to challenge the authenticity of a ballot. Was it originally filled out properly or cured? Did it arrive in the correct secrecy envelope or not? Was it folded originally or not? Did a dead person vote? Did someone fraudulently sign on their behalf? Were signatures compromised? Is it a wet signature? Most of these questions cannot even be answered at this point. One must ask why.

            1. if you know what i am talking about, then you know you are full of shit. if the political parties get the names address and age of everyone who votes, how the fuck can anyone seriously think dead people are voting and nobody notices?

      3. if you are trying to overturn the result of an election, that had better fucking matter to you……

        But we’re not talking about “overturning the result of an election”, we’re talking about whether places like Georgia had a democratic election in the first place, instead of officials fabricating tens of thousands of ballots. And the burden of proof ought to be on the officials to demonstrate that the law was followed, that there was a proper chain of custody, and that legal and only legal votes were counted.

        trying to overturn it for any other reason is trying to destroy the very concept of democracy

        We live in the United States, a voluntary union of republics; we don’t live in a centralized democratic nation state. Each state gives voluntary consent to being governed by the federal government, and if Texas doesn’t like the way Georgia conducts its elections, it can refuse its consent to being governed by the outcome of the election. That would be a big step, to be sure, but that’s the ultimate basis of US government.

        1. “But we’re not talking about “overturning the result of an election”…..”

          if you support the attempts to oppose the electoral college results, as Trump is suggesting, and as the article talks about….. yes…. yes you are. this has never had anything to do with fraud or illegitimate results….. this is a bunch of spoiled children who don’t like the way the election went and are trying to defy the will of the people. trying to throw out mail in ballots entirely, trying to prevent certification, trying to convince state legislatures to ignore the election results, and now trying to convince congress to ignore the election results……… none of this has a goddam thing to do with fraud, it is all 100% intended to steal the election for Trump…. it is all trying to overturn the election results. “fraud” gets mentioned in an attempt to provide cover, but not a single fucking legal case has had anything to actually deal with fraud.

          1. Given that courts deal in matters of fact, don’t you think it would be a bit unusual if the court cases only focused on allegations of fraud that we feel need to be investigated? I don’t know to what extent you’ve watched these hearings or listened to testimony, but there are many statistical irregularities and suspicious actions that at the very least warrant an inquiry. The fact that such requests are met with immediate dismissal and censorship only makes matters worse.

            The strategic purpose of these lawsuits was never to actually win them. It was to prove a point; there is NO remedy to a contested election. This statement is extremely important.

            Also, did you forget that there are still people who feel Gore was slighted? I can definitely say I’m a lot more sympathetic to them at this point.

            You are correct, but only at the surface level. If it wasn’t Trump who lost, this issue would get a lot less attention, but the level of attention does not determine whether or not it is an issue. This lack of election security is an old problem. The chickens have simply come home to roost.

            1. nothing you listed is actually evidence of anything. and, if there were truly fraud, there would be evidence….. it wouldn’t be suspicion and strained attempts to identify irregularities, it would be cold hard facts…. it would be high numbers of rejected provisional ballots because a mail in one was fraudulently submitted. it would be lists of names of dead people or people who say they didn’t vote being listed as voting. it would be the hand audits showing massive differences from the machine count. it would not be this fuzzy logic BS.

              but it is nice that you admit the point of the lawsuits was never to win them….. but it wasn’t to prove a point, it was to sow enough doubt and discord to potentially steal the election with BS like not certifying the electoral college results……

              1. nothing you listed is actually evidence of anything.

                The burden of proof ought to be on election officials; they ought to be able to demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that they followed the law and that their vote counts accurately represent the votes that were cast by legal voters. They clearly can’t do either. That means that the process we just went through can at best be called a “sham election”; it certainly wasn’t a legal, free, or fair election.

                This is nothing new either in the US; this has been true for decades. But the fact that these crappy, unauditable processes have existed for so long doesn’t make them any more legitimate.

                1. they have demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt to anyone being reasonable.

          2. trying to throw out mail in ballots entirely, trying to prevent certification, trying to convince state legislatures to ignore the election results, and now trying to convince congress to ignore the election results

            You keep missing the point. Elections actually and demonstrably represent the votes cast by voters and are carried out according to state law. The process we have gone through doesn’t meet those criteria, hence it wasn’t actually an “election” in a legal or political sense. The vote counts are simply not meaningful. There are no “election results” to overturn. That conclusion doesn’t depend on the question of whether there was actual, provable fraud. Since there was no legal election in several states, either state legislatures or Congress could step in and take action. Whether they should is another question.

            1. the burden of proof lies on the accusers. if you want to claim any of the elections were not legal, prove it. bring it to court, have the merits of your argument weighed and prove it. you don’t have to bypass the rule of law, you don’t have to ignore the constitutional process to certify the election….. you offer your evidence in court and try to prove your claim. you can’t. trump can’t. nobody can. there is no legal, logical, or ethical way that anyone can claim that any election in any state was not legal.

  25. It doesn’t matter if Trump’s challenge is ‘doomed to fail’. What matters is whether or not the thousands of affidavits of criminal wrongdoing will be investigated something done about it.

    Reason has exposed itself as nothing more than a Capitol Hill lobby, not daring to anger those with whom it wants to influence.

    Shame on the foundation.

    1. Trump’s phony grievance has seen the inside of more courthouses than OJ Simpson. It will never be enough for you because you are struggling emotionally with losing an election.

      From a Hillary supporter who knows what this feels like, I’m sorry that your guy didn’t rip the bandaid off so you could begin the healing process.

      If it makes you feel any better, at least you’re not being stuck with the universe’s most ridiculous orange psychopath as president.

      1. Nah. Instead we get the progressives pushing their crazy-assed shit to a president who just might listen to at least some of it. From a standpoint of the impact on average Americans, it’s worse.

        We could just ignore the orange psychopath. Change the channel. Ain’t nothing to be done when it’s 100 degrees outside and the power has been off for a couple of days.

        1. The average American who wasn’t killed or maimed during the Trump administration, you mean?

          1. Only in your imagination Tony. All of that was just rhetorical political bullshit. There wasn’t an unusual amount of killing and maiming the last four years.

            And I’ll pre-respond to your “300,000!!!!!” comment. Those per died from a virus that you’ve already admitted was coming, Trump or not.

            1. A president is judged by how he responds to national crises. Sorry if that seems unfair to you.

              1. I thought we were talking about killing and maiming. Now it’s just he responded poorly.

                You keep shifting, Tony.

                1. It’s all that mendacious piece of shit knows how to do.

              2. Neither you nor Biden have articulated a single federal policy that you would have done differently.

                In fact, US COVID death rates are pretty average in the developed world, and it’s mostly a few blue states that are responsible for it being as high as it is.

      2. Trump’s phony grievance has seen the inside of more courthouses than OJ Simpson.

        Trump’s grievances have been rejected without actually examining the evidence.

        It will never be enough for you because you are struggling emotionally with losing an election. From a Hillary supporter who knows what this feels like,

        Hounding Trump with false charges of election interference and fraud seems to have been a successful strategy for Democrats. So, whether Trump’s charges are phony or not, destroying the Harris/Biden presidency the same way seems both fair and likely to be effective.

        You reap what you sow, Tony.

        1. Spoken like a mature participant in modern civilization.

          Since you’re just making shit up I can only assume your primary motivation is to hurt people who are different. But even if you were being cajoled into hurting people who didn’t hurt you out of a sense of revenge, that’s still not being a grown up.

          How does it feel to be more of a pathetic sad snowflake than a billion pajama soy boys?

          1. I’m sorry, did you have a specific point you wanted to make? Because your response seemed content free.

        2. Russia interfered in the election. Nothing false about that.

  26. For those of you tired of the article on Trump’s antics, wait till he out of office. I am guessing half the people working for him will have tell all books.

  27. I love reading these comments guys. Keep it up!

  28. https://twitter.com/JoshShapiroPA/status/1339022605324587008?s=19

    That awful My Pillow guy just came on while our family is watching the Sixers game together. Lori and I yelled at the TV and told the kids to avert their eyes because there was inappropriate content on the screen.

    1. Fortunately for the kids, that story probably didn’t happen

      1. Just the AG of PA showing his level of respect for the peasants

        1. He probably does a lot of yelling at the TV.

    2. Well shit obviously we should overturn the election then.

      1. Or how about we just kill you and burn your body, Tony.

      2. No, Tony, we shouldn’t “overturn the election”. The fraud allegations mean that we didn’t have an election in the first place, but instead the kind of propaganda show that they used to have in socialist countries.

        1. The FALSE fraud allegations, you mean.

    3. I thought you Trump dickheads loved the My Pillow guy.

  29. yippee kayai

  30. https://twitter.com/fake_news_u_r/status/1339260413096161290?s=19

    It’s impossible to get away with rigging an election. If this election was rigged by way of rigging 3-4 key swing state cities, as Republicans claim, then this election would’ve produced a ton of data anomalies and irregularities. We would expect to see things like:

    • bellwether counties would suddenly stop being bellwether counties despite decades of near 100% consistency

    • the rigged cities would produce implausibly high urban turnout but demographically identical cities in neighboring battleground states would have normal urban turnout

    • you would have an implausibly high number of Biden-only ballots (no down ballot selections) but the same phenomenon would not be seen with Trump ballots

    • a forensic audit of the voting machines used in these rigged cities would produce unexplainably high error rates and the edit logs would be nowhere to be found. They would be wiped.

    • You would expect to see weird things like Trump winning key bellwether battleground states like Ohio and Florida and win them easily but would lose just enough battleground states (where the rigged cities are located) to put him under 270

    • you would expect to see suspicious activity going on in these “rigged” cities… such as; blocking poll watchers… stopping the count late on election night with Trump in the lead but then resume counting hours later with huge statistically impossible spikes for Biden

    • If Trump really did win in a landslide but due to vote flipping & corrupted machines ended up losing, you would expect to see a red wave, such as Rs flipping 12 seats & winning all 27 toss ups, while Ds have a dismal election night performance despite Biden shattering records

    So obviously, since none of the above was observed in this election, there is no reason to suspect fraud. No reason to suspect that Biden isn’t the legitimate winner of 80 million votes and thus the most inspiring politician of our time. A once in a century politician.

    1. Not a single person actually had to believe Biden was the best possible choice for this outcome to be predictable.

      The fact that addled minions like yourself are in some kind of meltdown as if you can’t possibly have imagined Donald Trump losing after 300,000 Americans died on his watch… that is the whole problem people were voting to rid this country of.

      1. Tony just admit you like being told what to do by an authoritarian government from cradle to grave. You are the essence of a bottom and you like it. Always ready to bend the knee to the loathsome crackpots on the left who’ve infected the democrat party.

        You’re tiresome and unwelcome and everyone here except your sock accounts attempts to out you down because they recognize what you do not.

        1. So am I to assume since you can’t see the bright blinking obvious authoritarian in front of your face, you are probably projecting your own butt sex fixation too?

          1. We see Biden.

          2. Why are you obsessed with butt sex, Tony? You’re always the one that brings it up first, you homophobic piece of shit.

      2. Tony admits he can’t read.

  31. Biden did worse in every metro than Hillary except the 4 counties he needed Philadelphia, Detroit, Milwaukee and Atlanta. He lost 17 of 18 bellwether counties. He overcame 12 other metrics like an incumbent President who garners more votes the second time always wins. There’s video from Georgia showing fraud!

    1. Exactly right but in the end the republicans got played. There’s some game theory to be learned if they wish to win in the future.

      Democrats are a true threat to freedom and democracy and our constitutional republic. Beating them is everything.

      1. PSA: this is a white supremacist. Everything he thinks is good is actually bad. So take what he says and reverse it.

        1. Tony is a genius.

      2. The Republicans got played alright. The let Trump run for president the first time. Them they got played again by letting him run a second time.
        Fooled you once, shame on you. Fooled you twice, you’re fucked.

      3. There’s no game theory, there’s just overwhelming force through control of media/tech and corrupt institutions.
        It’s not-even-disguised dictatorship.

    2. No video shows fraud, idiot.

  32. As Michael Steele said a couple of weeks ago, “the grift is on”.

  33. Oh, look, another Trump article.

    How fucking original.

    1. You’d think they would want Trump to win so they’d have something to keep writing about for the next four years.

  34. https://twitter.com/Rothbard1776/status/1339250312461348866?s=19

    OPENING STATEMENT [Important points]: @jbinnall “While the media and Democrats accuse us of ‘making it all up’ … our evidence comes from both data scientists and brave whistleblowers. Here’s what we found [in NV]:

    – Over 42,000 people voted more than once. Our experts were
    2/ able to make this determination by reviewing the list of actual voters and comparing it to the list of other voters with the same name, address and DOB. This method was also able to catch people using different variations of their first name … as well as individuals who were
    3/ registered under both a married name and maiden name.

    – At least 1,500 dead people are recorded as voting, as shown by comparing the list of mail voters with the Social Security Death Records.

    – More than 19,000 people voted even though they didn’t live in NV. This does
    4/ NOT include military voters or students. These voters were identified by comparing the list of voters with the USPS National Change of Address database, among other sources.

    – About 8,000 people voted from non-existent addresses. Here, we cross-referenced voters with the
    5/ Coding Accuracy Support System, which allowed our experts to ID undeliverable addresses.

    – Over 15,000 votes were cast from commercial or vacant addresses. Our experts found these voters by analyzing official USPS records that flag non-residential addresses, and addresses
    6/ vacant for more than 90 days.

    – Incredibly, 4,000 non-residents also voted, as determined by comparing official DMV records of non-residents to the list of actual voters in the 2020 election.

    – All in all, our experts identified 130,000 UNIQUE instances of voter fraud in NV,
    7/ but the actual number is almost certainly higher.

    – Our data scientists made these calculations, not by estimations or statistical sampling, but by comparing the list of ACTUAL voters, with other lists, most of which are publicly available. To put it simply, they explained
    8/ their methods so that others could check their work. Our evidence has NEVER been refuted, only IGNORED.

    – Two Clark County technical employees came forward, completely independent of each other, and explained that they discovered that the # of votes recorded by voting
    9/ machines and stored on USB devices would CHANGE between the time the polls would close at night, and when they were re-opened the next morning. In other words, votes were literally appearing, and disappearing, in the dead of night.

    – When we attempted to verify the integrity
    10/ of these voting machines, we were allowed only a useless visual inspection of the outside of a USB drive. We were denied a forensic examination.

    – Finally, our investigation also uncovered a campaign to illegally incentivize votes from marginalized populations by requiring
    11/ people to prove that they voted to receive raffle tickets for gift-cards, televisions and more.

    – Our determined team verified these irregularities without any of the tools of law enforcement, such as: grand juries, subpoenas or FBI agents. Instead, we had less than a month
    12/ to use critical thinking and elbow grease to compile our evidence.

    – We tried to obtain testimony or documents from Clark County officials, but they obstructed & stonewalled. When we filed suit, state officials and even courts delayed proceedings for days, but the offered
    13/ us merely hours to brief and argue our cases.

    – In wrapping up, Mr. Chairman, these findings are disturbing, alarming and unacceptable in a free society. Our free and fair election tradition is a precious treasure that we are charged with protecting. Government by the
    14/ consent of the governed is hard to win, and easy to lose. Every single time a fraudulent or illegal vote is cast, the vote of an honest citizen is cancelled out. Thank you.”

    No, @jbinnall THANK YOU – For your tireless efforts to fight for integrity in our elections. Your
    15/ opening statement was terrific and the damning [and irrefutable] evidence that your dedicated team compiled demonstrates the state of Nevada should have NEVER certified the results of the election and abdicated their responsibility to investigate [at LEAST] 130k documented
    16/ cases of voter fraud to ensure that Americans of all political beliefs and ideologies have faith and trust in our electoral process. Not only is further investigation required, but each of these officials should be removed from office for such blatant disregard for the
    17/ Rule of Law. God Bless you.

    1. Similar results came to light in Georgia, when investigating the people listed on mailed-in ballots.
      These were identified persons, whose votes violated the state’s laws, yet the votes were counted and the courts chose to ignore these facts.
      Wouldn’t be surprised if this was more widespread than just these two states.
      Both Nevada and Georgia fail their residents, if these people aren’t prosecuted.

      1. Cry morr faggot. Rebel against the state or just kys already

  35. https://twitter.com/JonathanTurley/status/1338842078890110976?s=19

    The same media outlets that killed the Hunter Biden story is maintaining a unified front on that and the Swalwell story. It is only embarrassing if it is reported.  Coverage of major legal stories is now being dismissed as a “portion control” problem.

  36. What coverage there has been of Hunter Biden has been the pro forma kind that they later can point to and say “we covered it, really!”

    1. Or maybe all the bullshit you read is lies from Russia.

      1. They’ve got Hunter’s laptop and the e-mails have been verified as being ones he sent.
        And not a single piece of evidence that Russia™ had anything to do with it.
        Stop using Swallow-well’s distraction tactics, you halfwit.

        1. Would that be the emails he sent in PDF form?

          Do you know it’s not a crime to have emails? I feel like we’ve been operating on this misunderstanding for over four years.

          Having emails = not a crime.

    2. Ah Ha! There’s the smoking gun. That’s solid proof that Trump won the election. I’m calling for Trump celebrations worldwide.

  37. It’s definitely “too soon to give up!”

    In fact, since losing the election, Mr. Trump has managed to raise 208 million dollars from people who just want to “stop the steal.”

    (insert sad trombone sound effect here)

    If it wasn’t for schadenfreude, I wouldn’t have any freude at all.

    1. Nihil is a perfect description of what is between your ears.

      1. If you give me some money, I’ll stop the steal™

    2. “Schaden” or not, the election-freude will be revealed in its entirety.

      1. LOL. Well played.

        For devotees of Mr Trump, I’ve got some good news and some bad news…

        The good news is that Mr Trump received the second highest tally of votes in US election history!

        (insert applause/cheering sound effect here)

        The bad news is Mr Trump received the second highest number of votes in US election history.

        (insert sad trombone sound effect here)

  38. Fantastic work-from-home opportunity for everyone… Work for three to eight hours a day and start getting paid in the range of 7,000-14,000 dollars a month…
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  39. We’ll, at least trump admits he lost in a landslide.


  40. “Trump has not provided any credible evidence to back up that fanciful charge, as even Johnson has finally acknowledged.”

    I’m sorry but after the Dominion shenanigans revealed (at length) in Antrim County, Michigan, what is the new standard for ‘credible’ evidence?

    Is it a bought-and-paid-for phony Russian dossier commissioned by the Clinton campaign presented to the FISA court without any pretense of objectivity?

    Is that “credible” enough for you anti-MAGA sociopaths?

  41. Honestly, why would Trump stop now when he’s raking in millions in donations from gullible people like Jesse, Nardz et al?

  42. All the fascist snowflakes on here and elsewhere just bawling their eyes out. Fuck your feelings- you lost, get over it.

  43. The Flamingo is a major orange beauty found in almost every country except Antarctica. Also, the name “Flamingo” was derived from the Portuguese or Spanish word “Flamengo”, which symbolizes “flame color”. The flame-like color of the Flamingo body gives a great look when they are in groups.

    The Flamingos fly long distances and can transport themselves at speeds of over 56 kilometers per hour. Besides, they are considered wading birds, but they remain swimming. Also, incredible blood, like feathers, is due to their dietary conditions, which include carotenoid pigments.
    The Flamingo

    1. Antarctica is not a country.

  44. It just occurred to me that maybe this piece was not actually written by Sullum — or if so, maybe he was coerced. Something is obviously out of whack, but perhaps it is not simply that Jake’s brain has been eaten up by TDS to the point where he feels idiotically compelled to write ninety articles on one subject in the span of a couple weeks. I mean, at one point in time, he must’ve had some libertarian in him, or else how would he have been hired by Reason in the first place? So maybe he is part of a leftist sleeper cell, but maybe not. Maybe he has actually been abducted by a leftist cabal and right now he is strapped to a chair in some manky warehouse on the outskirts of town, and Hillary Clinton is standing over him with a dental drill repeatedly asking him “is it safe?” I mean, probably not, but if anyone knows Jake and gives a shit, how ’bout stopping by and checking on him just to be sure?

  45. Fantastic work-from-home opportunity for everyone… Work for three to eight hours a day and start getting paid in the range of 7,000-14,000 dollars a month…
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