Election 2020

Does It Matter How Many Trump Supporters Came to Washington on Saturday?

The fabulism that is inseparable from Trumpism can conjure up "millions" of stolen votes as easily as "more than a MILLION" protesters.


Donald Trump began his presidency by asserting, based on "alternative facts," that he had attracted "the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration." He is ending his presidency by averring that Saturday's pro-Trump rally in Washington, D.C., attracted more than 1 million people. And just as he claimed that he would have won the popular vote in 2016 if it weren't for "the millions of people who voted illegally," he is now insisting that the Democrats stole this year's presidential election by altering "millions of ballots."

These are fitting bookends for a president who often seems to live in a parallel universe shaped by his ego's demands. While Trump's fantasies about massive election fraud may be more consequential than his fictitious crowd numbers, both kinds of misrepresentations reflect his need to twist reality into grotesque but self-flattering shapes. While that tendency is often amusing, it is also more than a little disturbing to anyone who thinks truth should count for something in political debates.

The president's endorsement of the claim that "more than a MILLION people showed up to support this President" took the form of a retweet. But White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany made the same claim directly. "AMAZING!" she tweeted on Saturday. "More than one MILLION marchers for President @realDonaldTrump descend on the swamp in support."

It would indeed be amazing, if it were true. Trump himself put the size of the crowd in the "hundreds of thousands" later the same day. But he also said "tens of thousands." The Washington Post said McEnany was "vastly exaggerating the crowd size." The Post put the number of participants in the "thousands," as did The New York Times and Fox News. USA Today went with "tens of thousands." So did conservative columnist Miranda Devine in a New York Post piece declaring the victory of "Trumpism." Voice of America reported that "it is not clear how many people turned up in Washington, and the city's police department does not estimate crowd sizes."

According to ridership data from the Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority, rail use was slightly higher on the day of the rally than it was the previous Saturday (80,000 vs. 77,000), while bus use was slightly lower (137,000 vs. 142,000). Those numbers would not capture people who drove in for the rally and then drove out without using public transit. But "more than one MILLION" visitors, or even "hundreds of thousands," should have had a more noticeable impact on transit use, especially since parking was restricted ahead of time.

Although there is a big difference between "tens of thousands" and "more than a MILLION," Trump has embraced both estimates. But as with his claims about election fraud—the main motivation for Saturday's rally—many of his supporters seem to think actual numbers are less important than the sentiment underlying them.

"You just had to see the enthusiastic cheer of tens of thousands of pro-Trump protesters who flocked to Washington, DC, over the weekend to understand it doesn't really matter what the final electoral vote tally is: Trumpism has won," Devine writes. "Even if, as seems probable, Joe Biden ends up living in the White House, and inviting his son Hunter to dinner with new business prospects from China, the corrupt bipartisan globalist establishment is not back in the ascendancy."

Doesn't it sort of matter whether Biden was duly elected president or, as Trump still maintains, stole the election through a massive criminal conspiracy? "Even if there was no skulduggery, the Trump campaign lawsuits come to nothing and the Dominion voting machines and their suspicious-sounding software get a clean bill of health, it's a service to public trust for the Trump campaign to go through a process that is legal and accounted for within the Constitution," DeVine says. "If there has been no fraud or miscounting, then public faith will be restored in the integrity of our elections going forward. That is a good thing which Biden should embrace if he really believes in unity and healing."

Yet the president is hardly serving the cause of "unity and healing" by asserting, over and over again without evidence, that he actually won the election, which according to him was "rigged" by systematic fraud involving "millions of ballots." Whether or not that's true is of more than passing interest to Americans concerned about "the integrity of our elections." And if it's not true, what does that say about a man who would casually engage in such reckless accusations? Whatever you may think of "the corrupt bipartisan globalist establishment," the fabulism that is inseparable from Trumpism makes it impossible to have a meaningful discussion about that subject, or anything else.

NEXT: Big Sky Brings Big Thrills to the Small Screen

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  1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie

    A big lie (German: große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so “colossal” that no one would believe that someone “could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously”. Hitler believed the technique was used by Jews to blame Germany’s loss in World War I on German general Erich Ludendorff, who was a prominent nationalist and antisemitic political leader in the Weimar Republic.

    1. Trumpistas:

      We will LIE over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over AGAIN, till it becomes the SACRED TRUTH!!!!

      1. Joke is on you, they were counting cells. When you are a Trump supporter, each of your cells is a little MAGA engine. Trillions of Trump supporters showed up for this march!

        1. Trumpti-clorians?!

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        2. You guys are terrible at this one of banter.

          1. You haven’t done too well at writing a diagrammable sentence.

        3. The “Trillion” Maggot March for the Golfer in Chief.

      2. ^Assumed facts not in evidence.

  2. And the hits just keep on coming.


    This is the part where Trump’s “business plan” comes into contact with this immovable force called “Reality”.

    Usually he declares bankruptcy and files a bunch of bound-to-lose-but-expensive-to-fight lawsuits against his creditors and contractors. This time he might resign and let Pence pardon him. We’ll see.

    1. Can Pence (PLEASE?!?!?) also pardon my Aunt, who failed to turn in my Uncle, for “misprision”, for the crime of NOT being an unpaid narc-to-the-State, when my Uncle (in an un-authorized manner) blew on a cheap plastic flute, WITHOUT PERMISSION?!?! (I know it’s too much to ask for forgiveness for my Uncle as well, horrible criminal that he was). My Aunt did NOT turn him in!!! But… Can we PLEASE forgive her?

      To find precise details on what NOT to do, to avoid the flute police, please see http://www.churchofsqrls.com/DONT_DO_THIS/ … This has been a pubic service, courtesy of the Church of SQRLS!

      1. Mental.

        1. Never flagged a commenter consistently before, but flagging spaz really helps.

          1. Why doesnt someone somewhere count up the flags and do something? Every single ex-Shop Rite employee, for instance

    2. “And the hits just keep on coming.”

      It was not a hit. The article has been updated- the SCOTUS declined NOTHING. They just didn’t take action on the case. They can still take it up tomorrow or whenever.

      1. Stolen Valor doesn’t read well.

        1. The Trumpti-clorian count is high with this one.

          1. “Trumpti-clorian”

            That’s Sqrlsy-level wit.

            1. It’s as clever as cacl.

              1. CACLL

                1. And you coined it!


                  1. It’s allowed, you know. It’s not like socialist Canada where the government has to approve new acronyms.

                    1. Yes it’s allowed. So is ridiculing it for how lame it is.

                      But hey, I bet your buddy Lying Jeffy will probably tell you it’s clever if you ask him.

                    2. Ohhh, he said no. Bummer Dee.

                      Maybe squirrels?

                    3. *White Knight waves little American flag*

                      “Hurr durr, calling it stoopid means you hate freedom”

                    4. Heres an acronym:


                2. FAGGOT.

                  Faggot Assholes Gargling Geiger’s Oniony Toes.

                  1. You guys are really good at projection.

                    1. You really aren’t intelligent enough to play that game.
                      But you’ll keep parroting.

        2. Not taking action on the case is declining to hear it, dishonorable coward in a blue state.

          1. No it’s not.

      2. “They just didn’t take action on the case. They can still take it up tomorrow or whenever.”

        That is saying the exact same thing as “Supreme Court Declines to Take Up…” as the headline says. They did decline something. There’s no contradiction.

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    3. This is where he’ll take to Twitter and starts bad mouthing Justice Coney Barrett. She had, what, two weeks of honeymoon?

    4. From your own cite nitwit:

      “The Supreme Court didn’t grant any new cases on Monday morning, but could still decide whether to consider the challenge in the future.”

      You really should read your our own cites instead of continuing to embarrass yourself.

      1. He never said otherwise.

        1. De Oppresso Liber
          November.16.2020 at 7:46 pm
          Not taking action on the case is declining to hear it, dishonorable coward in a blue state.

          1. No contradiction.

            1. “No contradiction. It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”

              Oh fuck off.

      2. Yeah, it’s not time sensitive or anything. They’ll probably get around to it later.

        1. Pennsylvania’s certification deadline is next Monday, but maybe they were having a basketball tryout for Coney Barrett or something.

        2. “Yeah, it’s not time sensitive or anything. They’ll probably get around to it later.”

          If you need help with those goal posts, WK is more than willing to pitch in.
          Or, you could simply admit you are full of shit.

      1. OOJ, various campaign finance violations such as him being a named co conspirator in the stormy daniels case which landed his previous fixer in prison, hatch act, etc..

        1. Hey DOL, do you think White Knight’s cacll acronym is clever?

          1. I’m not into it, but he’s trying to be polite.

            I gave up on being polite around the time that several commenters here decided to make some racial jokes about my family in response to me criticizing Trump, and have been just calling you guys cultists ever since.

            1. So that’s a no. Poor Dee.

              1. I’ll live.

                1. I bet squirrel will think it’s clever.

        2. Wait, being named in a case is a campaign finance violation?

          Or – wait for it – or, and this one might blow your mind, or since that case has already gone to trial and there wasn’t enough evidence to get Trump convicted . . . maybe he didn’t actually commit a crime there?

          What violation of the Hatch Act? Accepting luxury aircraft rides from Middle Eastern potentates? Oh, wait, that was Clinton.

          1. Whataboutism aside, there are a number of documented cases of Trump using the office for personal profit, including his DC hotel and then the whole silly Goya beans thing. Trump is a habitual self-promoter and runs afoul of the Hatch act regularly.

            1. You parrots know not of what you speak.
              But it’s funny, so that’s something.

  3. “Does It Matter How Many Trump Supporters Came to Washington on Saturday?”

    Strawman translation:

    Since it doesn’t matter how many Magas came to Washingtion, it doesn’t matter how many votes were cast legally and for whom.

    1. About 5 million more for Biden than Trump. Was pretty cool of Trump to wave to his brown shirts while on his way to the links.

      “You boys have fun out there. Don’t get beat up too badly! Bye, I got a tee time!”

  4. Every mouth complaining of exaggeration demonstrates simultaneously how important it is to them to deflate the figures.

    1. “Trump can’t just get millions of people into the streets, only many thousands”

    2. Or, you know, they want to call out a blowhard braggart on his bullshit.

      1. Coup-o-meter:

        Step 1: Get mail-in voting approved to guarantee a non-credible election result.

        Step 2: Have the Democrat-controlled media proclaim Biden as winner.

        Step 3: Use media allies to make it “true” that Trump lost. Frame any challenges to the narrative as the ragings of a dictator, clinging to power. <— WE ARE HERE

        Step 4: If the courts and congress find Trump’s electoral victory is legitimate, claim that it’s not. Activate rioters.

        Step 5: Remove Trump by non-Constitutional means. Frame it as saving the nation.

        Step 6: ‘Build Back Better’ baby. Make sure that those uppity surfs pay.

        1. Trump’s plan for a coup:

          1. Tell everyone any form of voting that uses the mail (including normal absentee balloting) is fraud while using it yourself and encouraging your mailing list to use it in Florida
          2. Proclaim ahead of time that your opponent is going to try to steal the election.
          3. Rile up all your supporters so that they don’t use absentee ballots claiming that their votes will be thrown away. As a result, most absentee ballots are for Joe Biden.
          4. Slow down absentee ballot counting in swing states with Republican legislatures by delaying the start of absentee vote counting until after walk-in votes are counted.
          5. Claim victory when Trump is ahead in these swing states before most of the mailed ballots are counted.
          6. Rile up your supporters more by claiming fraud after you lose by 10s of thousands of votes in swing states and millions in the popular vote.
          7. File weak lawsuits based on hearsay and lies.
          8. Try to delay certification of results as long as possible. Hope that you can get some electors to go against the popular vote in their states.

          This will all fail, but in the meantime, Trump can collect more money from gullible supporters to pay down his campaign debt.

          1. “including normal absentee balloting”


            1. https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/10/politics/fact-check-trump-absentee-versus-mail-ballots/index.html

              tl;dr: “absentee balloting” and “mail-in balloting” are exactly the same thing. Some states, like California, allow for mail-in balloting at every election and have done so for years. There is no “absentee” ballot in that there is no special case for when such a ballot is allowed. They’re always allowed.

          2. 7b) Solicit your supporters for donations to support the lawsuits. Use the money to pay down your campaign debt.

            1. Campaign debt and the legal fees he’ll incur once he loses immunity from prosecution. Someone’s gotta pay for the lawyers he’ll need to fight accusations of campaign finance fraud, money laundering, and sexual assault.

              1. “Campaign debt and the legal fees he’ll incur once he loses immunity from prosecution.”

                Gonna get him for that late library return and a parking ticket, you lefty shit?

      2. Ok. Hey Dee, you’re a blowhard braggart full of bullshit.

    3. It does seem odd that writing a long and tedious piece indicates that the writer, at bare minimum, thinks it is exceptionally important.

      1. But enough about Ken Schulz. 😉

        1. Damn dude this is pathetic, even for you.

          1. Is anything too pathetic for Dee, really?

            1. Evidence has yet to provide an example of something that would be but I am unwilling to say nothing could be.

        2. Can you cite the word difference in Ken’s thoughtful post and the meandering gibberish of the article? Asking for a friend.

  5. Once again, Trump is not the cause, he’s a symptom. People don’t distrust the media and elections and “our sacred institutions of democracy” because Trump told them to distrust them, the people elected Trump because they distrust all of these things. And while it may be a matter of Trump throwing gasoline on the flames of distrust – what the fuck has the Left and the media (but I repeat myself) been doing for the last 4 years insisting that Trump stole the election with the help of the Russians and he is therefore an illegitimate President, that he’s undermined all our trusted institutions, that he’s dared to question the impartiality of the Press, that he’s a Hitler and a monster and a baby-raper and the American electorate is chockful of racists, white supremacists, and evil retards for electing the fucker? How the fuck you gonna restore trust in this sort of shit now after you’ve destroyed any basis for trust?

    1. Damn straight! Trump won because he is not a typical politician. He is arguably the most transparent and honest President in a long, long time. That is why he got elected. Polls show the public greatly favors free trade, low tariffs, immigration, and other policies contrary to Trump. Yet he won by more than the number of people who support his anti-trade anti-immigration policies. Can no one put two and two together?

      TDS is real and hits both sides. After four years, all we get is nonsense about Trump’s spending being more dangerous than Biden’s, presumably because Biden hasn’t spent anything yet. TDS now, TDS tomorrow, TDS forever. Yay.

      1. I don’t believe I have ever seen anyone say that Trump’s spending is more dangerous than Biden’s. Where did you see anyone say that?

        1. Oh just fuck off with your ‘citaion please’ horseshit, and no matter how you pretend nobody here believes for a second that your not essentially a Dem operative, including you.

          1. Yes, Dee is a lefty, that lies about it.

          2. Haha. Fascist once again frustrated by total lack of evidence for his arguments, more at 11!

            1. “Racist! Fascist!”

              But totes not a leftist npc…

            2. In DOL land the supporters of a guy with Jewish kids and grandchildren, the guy that moved the embassy to Jerusalem, the first president in history to put on a kippah and pray at the kotel, are the fascists.

              But DOL’s authoritarian socialist pals who burn books, deplatform everyone to the right of Pol Pot, and send their blackshirts into the streets every night to pillage and burn, are just about hope and change.

          3. Nope. I’ll keep on calling CACLLs and Canadians on their bullshit.

            1. So you’re gonna keep squawking like a bird.

            2. bullshit

              Citation please and I’ll need it notarized.

      2. Trump didn’t win “by more than the number of people who support his anti-trade” or other policies. He lost by nearly 3 million votes. His win was in the electoral college only–which has become the norm for first term Republican candidates.

        Being the most “transparent” while not publishing your tax returns like every other modern president of any party has done? That’s not transparency by any means. And lying is the exact opposite of transparency unless the thing you want to be transparent about is your willingness to lie to your voters.

        Trump’s spending cannot be more dangerous than Biden’s because Biden hasn’t been sworn in and given the power to “spend” (which belongs to Congress and not the President.) However, the Trump corporate tax cuts have created the largest deficit on record so maybe that’s what they’re referring to?

        1. “However, the Trump corporate tax cuts have created the largest deficit on record”

          UR FULL of SH*T and you know it.

          Coronavirus Spending? We see no Coronoavirus Spending —- Just Corporate theft relief…

    2. I’m ok with this contrived reality we are being fed. Trump was the best president in a long time, but that’s not saying much. Who was the last good president? Kennedy? And he was corrupt af too – more than trump.

      It’s not like shitty government is something new for us. We don’t care – none of us did shit about anything – besides bemoaning the usual moral outrage that we can’t seem to get enough of.

      And hey, look at the bright side – now we have someone to blame besides ourselves for why this country is the fucking dumpster fire it is.

      1. According to general consensus on the last election – MOST people can’t seem to get enough of their shitty UN-Constitutional dictative government.

        Trump cuts the powers of government; gets voted out of re-election. Please sir may we have another helping of Obama dictatorship????

        I’ve have changed my mind; government is just as STUPID as it’s people are.

  6. Does It Matter How Many Trump Supporters Came to Washington on Saturday?

    If we’re now deciding the size of the protest crowd is entirely un-tethered to the seriousness or validity of their argument, then I am 176% on board with this idea. You go first, Media.

    1. I hear there was some violence. So I’m guessing the conservative media will now label the whole thing a riot. Right? No? Go figure.

      Wasn’t it Trump who was BIGLY impressed with his MOSTEST PEEPS EVER! inauguration ceremony? If Trump cares so deeply about his “ratings,” it stands to reason that people will pay more attention to the precise number.

      1. You should be afraid, and not of the common virus.

  7. An accurate count and county of residence database would be very useful for the planning needs of county mental health facilities.

    1. In LA and SF that is called a sidewalk. Notice how democrats don’t take care of their mentally ill?

      1. Actually, that is due to one of Reagan’s very few mistakes. He’d seen abuses of the mental health system to hide away inconveniently quirky but sane people and used a chainsaw against the mental health system there when he needed to use a scalpel.

        1. “Actually, that is due to one of Reagan’s very few mistakes. He’d seen abuses of the mental health system to hide away inconveniently quirky but sane people and used a chainsaw against the mental health system there when he needed to use a scalpel.”

          “Whenever gun control is brought up in a public venue, someone on either the Left of the Right brings up the need for mental health reform. After all, the Newtown shooter should have been in treatment; instead, he was out walking the streets.
          Almost inevitably, a person will respond that “ President Reagan closed all the mental health facilities.” Evidently, sometime as President, Reagan put a dangerously minded young man on the streets of Newtown, before the young man was even born.
          Is this true? The Czar has a pretty sharp memory, but admits things fade from time to time. When exactly did Reagan “close all the mental health facilities?”
          Turns out, this is a huge myth that liberals have been high-fiving themselves over for decades…”
          Read it and weep…

        2. The defunding of mental institutions started under JFK and was sped along by various court cases you fucking retard. It just culminated under Reagan after 2 decades of actions against institutions.

          You liberals are fucking ignorant of literally everything.

        3. The mental health system in CA was closed (as such) by the CA Supreme Court due to a lawsuit brought by the ACLU. SCOTUS soon followed. Reagan restructured the system in compliance with lawsuit.

      2. OK, you CACLLs spout a lot of bullshit. Mentally ill / homeless / hobos / whatever you want to call them head to California for two reasons: (1) the weather, and (2) liberals put up with their presence (and unsuccessfully try to help them) out of a sense of guilt and genuine caring.

        1. The White Knight
          October.22.2020 at 3:18 pm

          It means conservative and conservative-leaning libertarian, and I coined it.

      3. Large percentages of the mentally ill on the SF sidewalks come from out of state. Partially, because the city provides better services and partially because you can live in SF comfortably all year long in just a tent. In other states, you could die in the heat or freezing cold.
        Further, a good portion of the folks on the sidewalk are addicts either because of or leading to mental illness.
        And, these are the ones who refuse help. The city places large numbers of homeless into care facilities and temporary housing.
        The question is, do you forcibly commit someone to a mental health hospital against their will or let them live life how they want to? On a libertarian blog, I’d expect the majority to favor the latter, even if it is unacceptable to most of us.

    2. You know where else an accurate count and proof of residence would be useful?

  8. what matters is the legal votes. go find out what’s up.

    1. This has always mattered to all Americans.

      But “legal vote” like “patriot” has recently taken on the stench of propaganda. By “legal,” we are now to believe it means “any vote that isn’t for Trump.”

      Right outa Putin’s playbook.

      1. “By “legal,” we are now to believe it means “any vote that isn’t for Trump.””

        Of course you do.
        And it’s not Putin’s playbook, it’s Chavez’s and Maduro’s.

  9. It is kind of funny how unintentionally ironic Sullum’s piece is here.

    “These are fitting bookends for a president who often seems to live in a parallel universe shaped by his ego’s demands.”

    There are indeed parallel universes and it is strange that Sullum cannot see that he is living in one of his own making. Take for example this set of sentences:

    “Whether or not that’s true [i.e. allegations of fraud] is of more than passing interest to Americans concerned about “the integrity of our elections.” And if it’s not true, what does that say about a man who would casually engage in such reckless accusations?”

    Does Sullum never stop to ask himself “What if the allegations ARE true?” If they are, then shouldn’t the President be calling them out? Shouldn’t he be worried that even before recounts and certifications are done, the media is asserting that “Official” sources are calling Biden the winner- where no “Official” has done that, unless you consider the NYT “Official”?

    I have been trying my best to wade through the oodles of bullshit on either side of this debate. It is clear that the right has identified several areas of concern- several of which (Including Dr Shiva’s county vote discrepancies and the Brendford’s Law) have been adequately discredited IMO by other sources. The problem is that because the Liberal Media- and hell, even Reason, is unwilling to do a simple service of maybe cataloging these complaints and pointing out sources, it is left to the Right to keep repeating them ad nauseum.

    And BTW: Fuck sights like gatewaypundit that continue to post discredited fraud theories over and over, despite there being ample evidence they are wrong. And this even includes “respectable” rightwing rags like Federalist. They continue to repeat things like “Dominion software changed 6000 votes in Aldin County, MI” when the article they link to as proof completely discredits that claim.

    What a shit show.

    1. >>Does Sullum never stop to ask himself “What if the allegations ARE true?”


    2. All that shit is discredited. Trump supporters are really gullible and will repeat any made up story that supports their delusions. These allegations honestly don’t deserve that much attention, because there is no evidence to back them up.

      1. Seriously. Fuck off. How many times are you going to pop onto this site to add such noise? “It was all discredited!!!”

        That doesn’t help. 70 million fucking people disagree with you. If you just sit there and laugh at them, you are just as much a part of the problem as you think Trump is.

        1. I don’t care what they think. If Trump had evidence, his many lawyers would have used some of it in court. So far, no fucking dice. The only reasonable conclusion is that there is no evidence, and Trump is lying in order to reduce faith in US elections and society in general.

          1. There’s already no faith in US elections because the Russians stole it for Trump in 2016 nitwit.

            1. You mean Trump priming his cult for months for this exact scenario? It is so, so obvious.

              I really question the sanity of anyone claiming fraud at this point, or believing any of Trump’s obvious lies.

              1. “You mean Trump priming his cult for months for this exact scenario? It is so, so obvious…”

                Tin foil hats on special, aisle #6, lefty shit.

              2. No. But it’s not surprising that you’ll lie about it. It’s what you do.

              3. Personally, it’s the leftists that have been priming me for this scenario with their consistent promises to commit electoral fraud.

            2. No, no. Suddenly, elections are completely secure and no possible interference could have taken place.

        2. 70 million fucking people disagree with you.

          I doubt that. Probably about 1-2 million are full-on reality-denying believers. But even if you are right, so what? Millions of people used to believe the Earth is flat, and the Earth remained stubbornly round. So, with respect to any alleged voter fraud, evidence or shut the fuck up.

        3. 70 million people do not believe the election was stolen. Only Trump and a few right wing grifters and their gullible customers do.

          1. Keep telling yourself that.
            Reality is going to hit you really fucking hard.

      2. You get dumber by the day. And your descent as a blue blooded lefty is almost to sqrsly levels.

        1. JesseBlueState: “Why are all these libertarians and republicans turning into democrats around me?! It couldn’t be that my cult leader isn’t actually a conservative or classically liberal and they just oppose him since he is against their principles, could it? Nah, he said he’s conservative and totally christian, and I believe everything he says because politics has filled the hole that I used to fill with religion. Faith means believing without evidence, and I’m going to be the best at it!”

          1. WK is a bit up thread to help dragging that strawman around, lefty shit.

    3. The allegations cannot be true, as the preliminary results show a democratic victory. When democrats win, election fraud is a myth. When republicans win, the election is stolen, foreign interference is suspected, and the candidate is illegitimate.

      As far as the switched votes on Michigan, is it discredited because it was Antrim county, not Aldin county, or because approximately 3000 votes were switched? From the most recent reports, the problem arose “Because the clerk did not update software…”.
      But that brings with it new questions. Why would the previous version of the software move 20% of the votes to Biden? That seems like a big enough issue that the software company would want to make absolutely sure that every machine in use was running the current version.
      It also seems odd that all of the errors, from whatever cause, seem to run in the same direction. If an accountant was checking your books and suspected fraud, they would keep a log of errors. Errors themselves are only evidence of human imperfection, and happen regularly. But when the bulk of the errors run the same way, it is a sign of shenanigans.

      1. Sorry yes, Antrim county (DYAC).

        I think it very much does bring up additional questions. What it doesn’t do is implicate the Dominion voting systems, which is what I see Federalist and the like using that instance to suggest.

          1. Well shit, a media organization that is in the tank for Biden publishing a story dismissive of the President’s claims of election fraud? No way!

            1. You mean the courts. More than a dozen dismissed for lack of evidence, more still dropped by plaintiffs. Still no evidence of fraud presented in any case brought by Trump campaign. Really makes you think, if you are able to.

              1. My intellect is orders of magnitude superior to your own. Albeit, that is a low bar as comparison go. You just keep believing the pablum fed to you by your progressive masters.

        1. Breaking news: Election overturned, massive fraud proven!

          J. (More) Trump lawyers quit on him.


          Eat your vegetables and read a real source:

          Three attorneys representing the Trump campaign in a lawsuit seeking to block Pennsylvania from certifying its election results officially withdrew from the case Monday night, becoming the second set of attorneys to back down from representing the Trump campaign in the case and coming hours before the case was set to be heard in court Tuesday.
          President Trump Delivers Update On Operation Warp Speed At White House

          President Donald Trump speaks in the Rose Garden at the White House on November 13, 2020 in … [+] Getty Images
          Key Facts

          Attorneys Linda A. Kerns, John Scott, and Douglas Bryan Hughes filed a motion to withdraw from the lawsuit, saying they “have reached a mutual agreement that [the Trump campaign] will be best served” if they left the case.

          The motion comes three days after the previous law firm representing the Trump campaign in the lawsuit, Porter Wright Morris & Arthur, also withdrew from the case, and after a law firm in Arizona backed out of representing the Trump campaign in a separate lawsuit last week.

          The attorneys’ withdrawal also comes after the Pennsylvania lawsuit was amended Sunday to drop many of the campaign’s initial allegations concerning the vote counting process, after a federal appeals court struck down many of the campaign’s legal arguments in a court ruling for a separate case.

          The Trump campaign will now be represented by Harrisburg, Pennsylvania-based attorney Marc A. Scaringi, who previously served as a Trump delegate to the 2016 Republican National Convention.

          Surprising Fact

          Scaringi’s law firm has already acknowledged President-elect Joe Biden’s win in the election—even as Scaringi himself now represents the Trump campaign, which has yet to recognize Biden’s win and is using their legal battle as an attempt to contest the election results. “Joe Biden has successfully claimed the role of the 46th president of the United States,” a blog post on Scaringi Law’s website reads.

          Key Background

          The attorneys’ withdrawal is the latest blow to the Trump campaign’s legal effort to challenge the election results in battleground states. In addition to Porter Wright’s withdrawal from the Pennsylvania lawsuit, the Trump campaign and GOP suffered eight court losses Friday in Pennsylvania and Michigan and dropped an Arizona case because it would not affect the election results. GOP voters then dismissed four additional lawsuits contesting results in battleground states Monday morning, and a court denied an appeal request Monday evening by GOP plaintiffs in Michigan, who brought a case alleging improprieties in Detroit’s vote counting process, after a judge struck down their arguments in court. Election law experts, who have viewed the Trump campaign’s legal strategy as largely meritless and unlikely to succeed, said Monday they now believe the legal effort is officially dead in the water. “There is no path,” election law expert Rick Hasen wrote on his blog Monday. “Rudy Giuliani can say what he wants and the President can keep declaring that he’s won, but there’s no plausible legal way this election gets overturned.”

          1. Oh, GEE! Imagine a lawyer opting out of an unpopular case!
            Lefty shit finds this compelling!
            Lefty shit is not real bright.

            1. Hahaha, Sevo is an election denier as well. Why doesn’t that surprise me at all?

              1. You’re full of shit.

            2. Maybe you missed the part where Trump’s new attorney said that Biden won and the case won’t make a difference:


              “Joe Biden, according to the media, will be the 46th President of the United States of America,” Scaringi said during an episode of his radio show Nov. 7. “In my opinion there really are no bombshells that are about to drop that will derail a Biden presidency, including these lawsuits…At the end of the day, in my view, the litigation will not work. It will not reverse this election.”

              1. The White Knight
                November.16.2020 at 9:59 pm
                “Maybe you missed the part where Trump’s new attorney said that Biden won and the case won’t make a difference:…”

                Maybe you should try to read what I posted; it’s not difficult.

          2. Who knew that threats and harassment work?

            I thought that’s why fascist lefties target advertisers and harrass them to cancel people who engage in “bad think”.

            1. Thats the irony. The leftists above are clapping that successful social campaigns worked on getting lawyers to step down a day before a hearing. This is the shit banana republica pull and Stolen Valor, WK, and chipper sit and clap proving them to be the authoritarian they are. Realobwrtarians would be interested in fair elections, not those libs though.

              1. In the most recent batch of attorneys to quit, there has been no reporting that it was done because of social pressure.

                1. Uh huh.

    4. I’ve had the thought that there does need to be a good aggregator for the election fraud claims. The “us versus them” mentality means one side is claiming it’s all bogus and the other side is embracing a ton of obvious bullshit.

      Seems like a great niche for a libertarian publication to enter the picture since they shouldn’t have a dog in the fight. But Reason has been gaslighting with the “Clearly nothing amiss” stories running constantly and not acknowledging the irregularities.

    5. Reason also refuses to catalog Alex Jones’ conspiracy theories. So what?

      This is nothing more than Trump throwing a tantrum because he lost. That’s it. There is no widespread massive fraud. The election wasn’t stolen.

      1. We get it, you’re a lefty cheerleader. There is more support for election fraud here in plain sight than there was for the Russian collusion bullshit you twats obsessed over for 3 fucking years.

        1. He’s also a supporter of the free movement of illegal alien pedophiles within the US as well. So overall, Jeffy is a pretty despicable little shitweasel.

    6. Normally, it’s up to the people making the claims–in this case Trump and his supporters–to provide evidence. That they’ve got a million dollar bounty looking for evidence is telling enough. If there really was that much evidence as widespread fraud would create, you wouldn’t need to pay people to find it for you.

      Regardless, the people elected and appointed to oversee the election in the states with the closest vote tallies are all saying there wasn’t wide-spread voter fraud. Some of those are Republican and some are Democrat but all of them have the same message.

      If the fraud existed in sufficient quantity to alter the election, where is the evidence? Lack of evidence should lead us to conclude there was no massive fraud rather than double down on our search. If it shows up, it shows up and people should be prosecuted. But so far, it hasn’t shown up.

      1. Where is the evidence that you’re a human being, thus have natural rights?
        I don’t see any.
        So you’re fair game.

  10. Reason koch editors finally reaching the bottom of the barrel in news stories. I had someone today tell me that delaying concession was going to lead to another 9/11 incident (they must have gotten that from NR). I laughed and said that you mean Gore delaying concession and fighting in court was wrong then? They skulked away.

  11. No. Yawn.

    He’s done.

    If you believe he may still be the winner, good for you and fight the good fight, and the process will play out.

    If you don’t, then WTF. Why are you paying *any* attention to this circus and these monkeys? Trump is finished politically, as of right now, and if you’re still paying attention to him then you’re just a gawker and need to move on.

    1. Except he’s still eligible in 2024, and will be the same age Biden is now.

      1. Except Melania will have his balls if he runs again and at that age, I don’t think he’ll have the fight for both a divorce and an election in him. And who can blame her, she signed onto a jet setting life style filled with interesting people; not living in a swamp with a bunch of backstabbing hacks.

    2. He’s still the president and is still doing stuff, as scary as that sounds.

      1. Pulling out of Afghanistan is frightening.

        1. Tony has a strict policy of not pulling out. He tells the line of powertops at the bathhouse That is a requirement to ride the Tony train. It’s probably just about the only requirement, sloppy bottom that he is.

  12. Does it matter how many peaceful protesters ransacked Portland, Minneapolis, Atlanta, et. al.?

    1. Dude they weren’t burned *all* the way down.


  13. Speaking of large numbers, I’m still wondering how the Democrats harvested enough ballots to overcome Trump’s 400,000 vote lead on Election Day in Pennsylvania, and how all the networks acted like they knew that they would find them. And how they managed to get 78% of them to vote for Biden in a 50-50 state, when he didn’t get near that level on mail-in votes even in the bluest of blue states.

    But you still have to prove it….

    1. When Trump tells his supporters for months not to vote by mail, it is not surprising that the mail-in votes heavily leaned Democrat.

      1. That is not the issue. The issue is, if you compare the percentage in similar cities, they are not close. Just look at the vote totals from Cleveland.

        There are legitimate routes to that situation. There could have been extensive outreach efforts in these specific locations over a period of months. It is entirely plausible that the Democrats spent tens of millions of dollars ensuring turnout in just these cities.

        But that doesn’t mean it isn’t suspicious that turn out numbers in Philadelphia and Milwaukee look nothing like turnout in Cleveland and Newark.

        Nor do they look anything like their historical totals. Again, this could be explained by extensive outreach efforts, or extensive ballot harvesting operations. Or it could be explained by outright fraud.

        There are plenty of red flags that were waving long before the election, so you really can’t blame anyone who cast a suspicious eye towards these results. When you have Hillary coming out and telling Biden not to concede the election, no matter what happens, you have to wonder why such a thing would ever be said. It makes you wonder why a reporter would suddenly want to ask Trump if he would voluntarily leave office after he lost the election. I mean, that’s kind of an odd question to ask. I don’t think any reporter has ever asked any president that in history. And then there’s all of the moves to mail out balance unsolicited to all voters, or even all residents. Almost being taken in the middle of an election cycle, without proper legislative action. It was strange. And then there’s the predictions that no matter what the vote totals are on election day, eventually Biden will win in a landslide. One Democrat analyst told us that on election night Trump would appear to have won in a landslide, but after all the legal action and all the final counts were in, it will be biting in the landslide. how the hell could you possibly predict such a thing? but everyone was fully confident that that is exactly what would happen.

        You can’t explain that one based on mail a
        In ballots. Normally, having a bunch of mailing ballots on hand would mean that you would have those results early. That was the case in Florida. And in Ohio. You know, two states that notably had no trouble at all with the election. But for some reason in all of the states that slipped to the other side of the swing state column, those votes didn’t get counted until much after the election day votes were counted. I wonder why that is? I mean, if you wanted people to suspect the election results, that would be one way to do it. Because all the election experts will tell you that if you want to commit fraud, the first thing you need to know is how many votes do you need. And the only way to find that out is to wait until the other sides votes are counted. So if there is no monkey business afoot, they sure did go out of their way to make sure that it looked like there was.

        And our esteemed supreme Court did a snow favors by failing to weigh in on things like the Pennsylvania situation. You had a court there clearly going directly against the black letter of the law. But by punting on deciding the case until after the election, they guarantee that nobody would accept whatever decision they came up with. The whole thing is an absolute crap show.

        1. “But for some reason in all of the states that slipped to the other side of the swing state column, those votes didn’t get counted until much after the election day votes were counted. I wonder why that is? ”

          That’s because the *Republican* election officials in those states decided to count the mailed ballots last. For example:

          The Republican-controlled legislature in PA refused to change state law to allow county election officials to start processing mail-in ballots until 7 a.m. on Election Day. That left local election officials with mountains of absentee ballots to process and count on top of the in-person vote cast on Tuesday.

          In Wisconsin, election workers had to wait until 7 a.m. Tuesday to begin most processing on nearly 2 million absentee and early vote ballots.

          There were many times more absentee ballots than usual due to Covid and those heavily Democratic because Trump told his people not to use the mail.

          1. >There were many times more absentee ballots than usual due to Covid and those heavily Democratic because Trump told his people not to use the mail.

            I see this repeated often but it isn’t exactly true in any swing state except for PA:

            “In Ohio, 50 percent of mail-in ballots have been requested by Democrats while 38 percent have been from Republicans. In Wisconsin, it was a virtual tie at 39 percent for each party.

            Michigan is the only battleground where Republicans have the edge, amounting to 43 percent of the requests compared to Democrats’ 38 percent.”

            1. Leftists don’t know facts, only narratives. The media said it. So idiots like WK repeat it.

      2. Citation. He never said that fucking liar. He said mail in ballots opened up fraud. God you’re a pathetic lefty liar.

        1. Clear implication of their causing fraud would be — wait for it —- don’t do mail-in voting.

    2. I’m still wondering how […]

      At this point, it’s not honest ignorance, it’s a choice you’ve made.

  14. Since this article mentions the Trump rally, I think it says something that Reason hasn’t yet mentioned the violence perpetrated by leftist counter protestors. From a libertarian standpoint isn’t the violence by leftist counter protestors more worrying than if Trump lied about the size? Not a single story over the past 48 hours.

    1. Reason went all in on “mostly peaceful” to describe left wing violence, outside of Rommelmann, earlier this year, and that is the narrative they’re gonna stick with.

    2. It says that Reasons isn’t a newpapwe

      1. Right. Covering an event where the NAP is violated repeatedly for political purposes, and pretending that it didn’t happen, sounds libertarian to me.

        Or, since it’s left wingers violating the NAP, lefties like you don’t care.

        1. Look, did you know about it happening without Reason’s having covered it? Did you know it was wrong for people to be beating up other people without Reason covering it? (Have you even checked that your assertion that Reason hasn’t covered it is true, or did you just throw an accusation at Reason and assumed it was true?)

          So, what is the problem? If you are counting on Reason for all your news, or to tell you that obviously wrong things are wrong — you are misguided.

          1. Here is sime news:


  15. This is the silliest if silly articles.

    Did you write something similar about the million women that Hillary had March on washington to protest Trump getting elected? Estimates were.. eggagerated.

    Worse, what other times did you say Trump was crazy? How about when he said the phones at Trump tower were tapped?

    Or how about when he said he did not collude with Russia.

    Or when he said that the evidence proved there was no collusion…. You know, when you were quoting Adam Schiff and telling us that there is no question that Trump campaign officials were meeting with Russian agents about influencing the election.

    Dude might be ridiculous, but you guys are twice as bad.

    Besides, the real story out of this weekend March is not some stupid tweet. I cannot believe the lack of insight and intelligence it takes to pull that out as the big take-home moment.

    We had Democrat activists physically attack an assault multiple political opponents at a peaceful rally. You know, the operative phrase of 2020. Mostly peaceful! Only this time, we had entirely peaceful Republican citizens marching in support of their candidate physically attacked by Democrat activists. Both at the rally and later at restaurants, hotels and around town.

    That alone should be cause for heavy coverage at a magazine that concerns itself with liberty.

    But much more concerning, is what the media has to say about it. Fox news covered the assaults on Trump’s supporters to some degree. The rest of the media, well, not so much.

    I did not canvass every single outlet, but I did see CNN and NBC. Both ran with the narrative that Trump was fomenting revolution and inciting violence. Their take-home from the fact that Trump complained about his supporters being physically assaulted and calling for his supporters to stand up and be counted and support him in his recount efforts was tantamount to declaring himself king. They said it was a clear incitement to riot.

    They did not mention any of the assaults by Antifa, BLM, and just generic Biden supporters. For those who doubt such things exist, I refer you to the internet. Yes, I know that finding stuff is very difficult these days since YouTube, Google, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter have all taken steps to limit the distribution, and WordPress has shut down all their conservative sites, but the stuff is still out there and readily available if you bother to look for 5 minutes.

    That is a huge story. Political violence directed at supporters of the sitting president of the United States, aided and abetted by willing accomplices in the media and local government…. You would think that a magazine concerned almost entirely with civil liberties would have something to say about that. I mean, imagine if a bunch of mega hat wearing Trump supporters had come to a George Floyd protest and started physically assaulting people. Particularly if they did it in an organized fashion, as was clearly apparent in the videos from this weekend. There are several videos of the same group of people with fake journalists in tow going up in assaulting people in order to get video of them retaliating to post online. One particular group used two black women, one wearing a orange hat. there are at least a half dozen videos of them going up and blindside assaulting some older Trump supporter hoping to get video of them retaliating.

    But no, we get a millimeters deep think piece on a tweet. And how revealing it is that a politician exaggerates the size of a crowd. Now mind you, this is the same politician who has been drawing tens of thousands of people to rallies for years and having those rallies either be ignored or derided in the mainstream media, wow the same reporters tell us of the enthusiastic 350 people who came to a drive-in rally for Biden. I think he may have earned the right to have a bit of salt about such things.

    I’ll tell you what, why don’t we just hand off all of these stories to Robby. He seems to be the only person around here who knows how to analyze a media story and figure out what is really going on.

    1. A high school kid smirked at an Indian banging his drum right in the kids face and Reason authors were all over it.

      People are attacked solely for their political beliefs and those same voices are silent.

      Free minds my ass.

      When the violence gets a violent response do not suddenly act like it is anything other than an earned response.

      You had your chance to speak, and your silence spoke volumes.

    2. It looks like you hit the character limit and your citations got chopped off

      1. This place just gets dumber by the second.
        In what possible world did you think that was a rebuttal worth typing out?

  16. You’re next question will be, “does it matter if the election was rigged?”.

  17. As others mentioned reason koch is completely silent on violence in DC this weekend. They have become just another left wing media outlet carrying democrats water. Sure we’ll get some stories about the deficit, and maybe tariffs or immigration, but they will be soft pedalled. I’m sad to say a magazine I read for decades has come to this. Libertarianism is just defunct.

  18. “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. There is no defense. It is almost impossible to counterattack ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, who then react to your advantage.” -Alinski

    I must say that Trump has handled reacting to ridicule fairly well. Not that Trump’s enemies are radicals in the least. They have the full support of the media, Democrats, and the traditional Republicans. And of course many major corporations that long for the return of “traditional” bipartisanship.

    1. Are you kidding? Trump falls apart under ridicule.

      1. I wouldn’t confuse falling apart with pushing back. He’s had vitriolic ridicule like no other US president before him, and was in part elected precisely because he pushes back against the media/Democrats. Not going to be any Dan Quayle “deer in the headlights” moments from this President.

        1. His interview where he was shown per-capita COVID-19 statistics, and just kept pointing at his printouts because Trump couldn’t understand the difference between absolute and per-capita numbers. He was like Nigel saying, “But this one goes to 11.”

          Total deer in the headlights moment.

          1. I’m stealing that simile.

  19. “The Washington Post said McEnany was “vastly exaggerating the crowd size.””

    And you take seriously anything the Washington Post says anymore?

  20. Does It Matter How Many Trump Supporters Came to Washington on Saturday?

    Apparently only when the numbers can be spun as a ‘low-turnout’ in an attempt to embarrass Trump.

    When there’s a large turnout of support then the numbers no longer matter.

    Also, they matter because that’s an awful lot of people motivated enough to get out in the streets and complain. You can ignore them if you wish but, as Maher put it, if half the people keep tossing out the popcorn, the popcorn might want to look into why.

    I mean, we’re expected to take BLM and Antifa seriously because there’s a lot of them.

  21. https://twitter.com/RichardGrenell/status/1328484398912585728

    The Clark County Commission just threw out an election that represents almost 1/6 of the total votes cast in Clark County because there were too many “discrepancies” to be sure that that the results in that election can be certain. 153K votes in this election.

    1. Because that race came down to ten votes. Has nothing to do with the Presidential election results.

      Keep clinging. Keep grasping at straws.

      1. You are dumb enough to think only 10 votes are in question.

      2. WK is desperate to comvince us that there is ‘nothing to see here’.

  22. What is the relevance? Less than 0.1% of ballots were “discrepancies”, and the election was for local county commissioner, not the general.

    ‘Clark County commissioners have certified all the results of the general election — except in the race for the commission seat representing District C, where ballot discrepancies outnumber Democrat Ross Miller’s 10-vote victory and a special election will be held.

    Clark County Registrar of Voters Joe Gloria reported to the commission on Monday that there were 139 ballot discrepancies in District C, and Miller defeated Republican opponent Stavros Anthony by only 10 votes out of 153,162 cast. As a result of the discrepancies, the commission voted not to certify the District C results and instead call Gloria back to its first December meeting to present a plan for a special election.

    “To the best of my knowledge, some of the discrepancies outlined by the registrar indicate that those discrepancies surpassed the narrow margin of victory in the District C race, calling into question the validity of election results in that district,” said Commissioner Larry Brown, who currently holds the District C seat and is terming out.

    The special meeting of the commission on Monday was held in order to canvass, or certify the official tally of, votes from the general election. Gloria reported that there were 936 discrepancies identified in the county out of 974,185 ballots cast.

    Discrepancies in ballot counts can occur when the number of voter check-ins at a voting site does not match the number of ballots cast at that site, when voters attempt to vote twice, and because of assorted mail ballot issues.

    President Donald Trump tweeted about the decision Monday afternoon, saying that “large scale voter discrepancy” showed that officials “do not have confidence” in election security. However, Joe Gloria stated at Monday’s meeting that discrepancies occur in every election.

    “There’s no election that goes without discrepancies that are identified,” Gloria said. “In particular, this time, with such a large mail ballot number, that number that I’ve identified is in the thousandths of percent.”

    The 936 discrepancies make up .096 percent of total ballots cast in Clark County in this year’s election.

    Anthony has been vocally supportive of Trump in the past, but Anthony’s campaign manager, Lisa Mayo-DeRiso, distanced the campaign from the president’s comments on Monday evening, telling The Nevada Independent that Anthony’s campaign “has never subscribed to the conspiracy side of that” with regard to the discrepancies.

    “What we’ve consistently talked about is human error,” she said. “I don’t care if you’re counting ballots or making pizzas, there’s going to be errors.”’


    It’s almost like you guys are not interested in discovering and understanding the world when you read the news, but are instead desperately searching for confirmation of your biases. This leads you to consume and believe things from questionable sources that are quite obviously lacking authenticity.

    1. So, you’re saying all votes *do not matter* then?

  23. “The fear of intrigue and subversion doesn’t exist only on the fringes of society, but has always been part of our national identity. When such tales takes hold, Walker argues, they reflect the anxieties and experiences of the people who believe them, even if they say nothing true about the objects of the theories themselves.”

    —-United States of Paranoia


    The interesting thing about the claims of a stolen election, the charges of a conspiracy, and the claim of cover-ups by the media isn’t whether these claims are true or false so much as that these claims show that so many average Americans think the Democratic party is out to get them and the news media is nothing but lies.

    Per a Gallup survey from September of 2020, 89% of Republicans said they had little trust in the media or none at all. 64% of independents, likewise, said they had little trust in the media or none at all. You can’t have a level of distrust like that and expect average people to believe what the media is telling them about who won the election and why.

    Over the past four years, the news media has completely destroyed their credibility with more than half of the American people. It’s like the story about The Boy who Cried Wolf. The townspeople don’t believe you anymore. Whose fault is that? Don’t blame the townspeople. Blame those who lied and obfuscated and misled about everything Trump related for more than four years.

    Meanwhile, average Americans fully believe that progressives hate the white, blue collar, middle class, and I suspect that may be because progressives really do hate the white, blue collar, middle class. How do you expect the white, blue collar, middle class to react under those circumstances? Just accept that they’re at the mercy of the Democrats who hate them–because the media they don’t trust says so?!

    At some point, maybe Biden and the Democrats should start addressing the American people directly and reassure them that the Democrats aren’t planning to reshape the economy with the Green New Deal, aren’t planning to destroy private insurance with Medicare for All, and aren’t planning to launch a War on Guns. They won’t do that, however, because they fully intend to pursue that agenda to the best of their ability. And given that, average Americans are right to question the legitimacy of this election and to be terrified of what the Democrats are planning to do to them once Biden is in the White House.

    And if the average American’s fear of Democrats, BLM, anti-fa, social justice warriors, the Green New Deal, Medicare for All, a War on Guns, and a lying media to cover for all this drives them to make ridiculous claims, that’s entirely understandable. What would you expect under the circumstances?

    1. You’re blaming the abused, asshole.

      It’s the money. The zillions of dollars spent by people to outfit talk radio, cable TV, and the internet with an endless supply of rightwing horse manure. It’s propaganda for a political party. Nothing more complicated than that.

      And what would you like to do about the crisis of so many rightwing Americans being so deeply misinformed? Have Democrats apologize for it, of course.

      Stupid and evil. The marriage continues.

      1. You could, of course, just leave us the fuck alone and march on into the new day of your Progressive Utopia while the bitter clingers linger in the fly-over states.

        Then you wouldn’t have to deal with our bullshit.

        I’ve said before – you want socialism, go be a socialist. Get some likeminded people together and start a commune. No one will stop you.

        We just don’t want to join you.

        1. By all means, stop voting and forcing me to deal with your apocalyptic nonsense.

          1. Lol. Says the climate alarmist and covid alarmist.

        2. “…We just don’t want to join you.”

          You’re too kind. Pretty sure I speak for the majority:
          Shitstain, if you died tomorrow, most all of us here would applaud your death, but not as much as we would otherwise.
          I don’t mean this in some figurative manner. Let’s make it clear: You are a pathetic piece of lefty shit, and your continued existence is a detriment to humanity in general.
          For the benefit of mankind, you should fuck off and die. Preferably a long, slow and painful death.
          Is that clear, shitstain?

          1. Oh, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you family, your dog and your goldfish were exchanging high-fives when you died, shitstain.
            Nothing you don’t deserve.

            1. Sevo, your eloquence is matched only by your subtlety.

              1. I’m trying to find an equivalence for your ‘intellect’, but is seems recent research suggests birds aren’t as stupid as we had thought.
                Fuck off and die.

    2. Well stated Ken as usual.

  24. “Does It Matter How Many Trump Supporters Came to Washington on Saturday?”

    Of course it does! Lefty shits here, for the last four years, have claimed the hag won since she got more popular votes, so the number which shows up in Washington should obviously be counted, right Tony?

    1. So the new PC thing is to apologize to the barely literate for having a college degree and making them feel bad about themselves.

      I’m sorry Trumper. You’re very smart and so handsome. Can we have our country back now?

      1. “So the new PC thing is to apologize to the barely literate for having a college degree and making them feel bad about themselves.”

        I’m sure your mommy found that interesting; the rest of us who have English as a first language wonder what the fuck you’re whining on about.
        Fuck off and die, shitstain.

      2. Majority of college degrees these days are less than worthless. Why democrats want to expunge the loans.

      3. Tony, we’re all smarter and better educated than you are. Don’t you have some kind of worthless sociology degree? You’re also obviously not very intelligent.

        You are inferior. Case closed.

    2. I keep hearing how I’m a lefty shit, even though I voted for Gary Johnson, have never once said a word about Hillary’s having won, and I strongly dislike Hillary Clinton.

      Your seething anger makes you stupid, Sevo.

      1. “I keep hearing how I’m a lefty shit, even though I voted for Gary Johnson, have never once said a word about Hillary’s having won, and I strongly dislike Hillary Clinton.’

        1. Brilliant rejoinder, Sevo.

          Like I said, your seething anger makes you stupid.

          1. Like I said: So?

      2. Ok chipper. You don’t realize you’re a lefty shit even though you defend all lefty shit.

      3. Yet you are a constant booster for democrat talking points and democrat individuals.

  25. I made a big entrepreneurial investment just before the election, and it doesn’t look like it’s gonna pay off.

    Anyone know where I can unload this enormous shipment of pussy hats? No one in DC is buying this time around.

    1. Put them in storage. An opportunity will come around.

      1. Poor Dee. So bad at humor.

        1. “Trumpti-clorians” is pretty darn clever, and you’re envious you didn’t think of it.

          1. It is as retarded as everything else you say lefty shit.

          2. Good lord the delusions run deep

  26. It matters to the Hamilton Electors.

  27. Thus dawns the realization that one lives in a shithole nation where elections are rigged, the media lies and the people have been hopelessly divided by meaningless terms like left and right.

  28. I made a major pioneering venture not long before the political race, and it doesn’t resemble it’s going to pay off.

    Anybody know where I can dump this gigantic shipment of pussy caps? Nobody in DC is purchasing this time around.


  29. Start making extra income Earns upto $550 to $750 per day by working just online. I have made $28K in this month by working online. Its a simple and easy home job and even a little child can do this job online and makes real money… Here is More information.

  30. What a petty little article.

    Trump owns children like this author, basically trolling them into silly tantrums like this article to demand Trump not say more people came than actually did. We went through four years of media like this spreading false information, while withholding and suppressing true information, literally supporting multiple actual attacks in the constitution, and this putz is arguing about the silly crowd size.

    Stfu, or better, just go ahead and add a “T” to the name of this garbage “media” outlet.

  31. I made 10k dollar a month doing this and she convinced me to try. The potential with this is endless. Here’s what I’ve been doing Please visit this site… Here is More information.

  32. Amazing how much this article is like the ones in Reason four years ago saying that the Democrat’s claims of Russian interference in the 2016 election were totally false and should not be investigated.

    Reason undoubtedly had something to do with the Democrats immediately dropping those accusations and declaring that Trump was their president after all.

  33. What may be a more interesting question is the number of real hardcore trump supporter. There has been some speculation that groups tend to follow Trump rallies. Similar to the Dead Heads who would follow around to Grateful Dead concerts. It is too late now but I offer this thought experiment. What if at the first Trump rally in 2020 we had tagged a set of attendees with radio collars and followed their movements. Would we find that that throughout 2020 Trump was not bringing new thousands to rallies, but rather the same thousand to multiple rallies, and then to the march on Washington.
    Now to be fair Trump gathered +70M votes in the 2020 election but I think the hard core Trump voters are far fewer and most of Trump 2020 voters will be happy to vote for a different Republican in 2024.
    So does it matter how many were in Washington, not really.

  34. Sullum cites the DC Trump rally to criticize Trump for the nth time, but fails to reveal or acknowledge that dozens of Trump supporters were brutally attacked by angry anti-Trump Biden supporters.

    Even some left wing news outlets reluctantly reported the violence by BLM, Antifa and other left wing thugs, but not Sullum or Reason.

    1. The assaults were too locally peaceful.

    2. A far more accurate article about the Trump rally (and the BLM and Antifa activists who attacked peaceful Trump supporters) is at:

      Shame on Sullum for excluding these key facts.

  35. Ah, I miss the good ole’ days, the simpler times. When all we had to argue about was a guy selling “tough on China” policies and MAGA hats that were actually made in China at the same time. Back when his first few versions of “I hire the best people/this person is the worst ever” cycle was fresh and new.

  36. poor unreason staff liars and traitors to America.

    Trump vs Biden win for Trump is going to be hilarious.

    1. Just like in 2000 when Democrats in Florida got caught trying to steal an election via election fraud, Democrats got caught in 2020.

      Lefties rarely bring up Bush vs Gore because they got caught. Same thing will happen in 2020 with Trump vs Biden.

  37. Numbers do matter its called science. or do you count Trump supporters like you count votes

  38. I didn’t read the article, but the pictures and videos are obviously of crowds well in excess of 100,000.

    It’s cute how leftists fight and fight about something, and then when faced with devastating reality, such as the clearly massive amount of people at this demonstration the other day, they effortlessly pivot to “Does It Matter?”

  39. The counting that matters is votes. And that looks very shady at the moment

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