Media Criticism

The Media Had 4 Years to Figure Out Trump Voters. They Blew It.

As independent thinkers exit mainstream institutions, groupthink and blind spots are likely to get worse.

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When Donald Trump pulled off a stunning upset and won the presidency in 2016, few people were more shocked than the professional take-havers in the mainstream media. Pundits, journalists, and political strategists—who live in Washington, D.C., or New York City but seldom leave their Twitter bubbles—were totally blindsided by the fact that a crass reality TV star had managed to defeat Hillary Clinton, the embodiment of the Democratic establishment.

A healthy media might have learned from its mistakes, engaged in soul-searching, and tried to gain some insights into the working-class coalition that Trump had assembled. Clearly, this didn't happen, because four years later—in the midst of a nail-bitingly close election—the predictions of the pundit class have proven to be no more accurate than they were in 2016. In fact, by some measures the experts performed even worse than last time: The pre-election polls, which suggested a landslide Biden victory, Democratic control of the Senate, and gains in the House, are so spectacularly wrong it calls the validity of the profession into doubt.

To take just one example, Sen. Susan Collins (R–Maine), for instance, did not lead her Democratic challenger, Sara Gideon, in a single poll of the Maine senate race. She was thought to be losing by 5, 6, or 7 points. (Quinnipiac had her down 12 points in September.) On Wednesday afternoon, Gideon conceded the race, which Collins won easily.

And while Biden currently looks likely to narrowly eke out a presidential victory, he is underperforming the polls in several states. In 2016, pollsters could reasonably claim that the numbers actually showed a very close and ever-tightening race in battleground states like Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania: Trump's win, though surprising, wasn't exactly outside the range of possible outcomes. This time, the public was primed for a blowout that never materialized.

This means, of course, that the mainstream media narrative about the "shy," reluctant, or otherwise undercounted Trump voter—namely, that he does not exist—was completely, utterly, bafflingly wrong: Once again, Trump is more popular than the media thought was possible.

Perhaps more importantly, the media continues to be wrong about why Trump is popular, and about which people like him. Unable to admit that a Democratic Party held hostage by liberal arts graduates who write their preferred pronouns on their name tags might be out of touch with the working class voters who traditionally vote blue, many cable news talking heads settled on any number of alternative explanations: from Russian interference to lingering, perhaps resurgent, racism throughout the U.S. (CNN's Van Jones called it a "whitelash" in 2016.)

Trump, though appears to have improved—albeit modestly—his totals with minority voters, including and especially Latino voters. The narrative that Trump's divisive rhetoric about foreigners and immigrants renders him completely toxic to minority voters just doesn't match the reality. Indeed, the results thus far suggested that the racial gap—at least for Latinos—is shrinking, and class and educational attainment are becoming more salient considerations than race.

It's unfortunate that many within the media—including and especially the prognosticators—continue to get things so wrong. Massive polling errors are bad for cultivating a well-informed citizenry, as David Graham argues in The Atlantic:

Without reliable sources of information about public opinion, the press, and by extension, the public, should perhaps employ a measure of humility about what we can and can't know in politics. As wise as this may be—and even if people manage to act on it—that sort of epistemic humility risks falling prey to the same asymmetrical warfare that has characterized much of the Trump era. At the moment, the leader of the Republican Party is an authoritarian populist who claims to represent the "true" will of the people, despite losing the popular vote twice. The president is unlikely to exercise any such humility in claiming, without evidence, that public opinion is with him. He might be wrong, but without reliable polls, who's to say otherwise?

Given the narrowness of Biden's presumed victory, it seems unlikely that Trumpism has been dealt anything resembling a death blow. The GOP will have little reason to shun Trump; on the contrary, given the results in 2016, 2018, and now 2020, one could make the case that the Republican Party performs better with Trump's name on the ballot than without it. Those in the mainstream media who continue to fail to understand Trump aren't going to get off easy: They just plain have to get better at this, or they will continue to lose ground to their challengers in the alternative media.

Several people who fall into this latter category—which includes a bevy of populism-sympathetic podcasters and upstart policy advocates—were recently profiled in The FederalistPublisher Ben Domenech and culture editor Emily Jashinsky call them the new contrarians, or "the New Contras for short, because the one thing they all have in common is refusing the wokeness that dominates legacy media, and has created a practically religious climate of insufferable identity politics." They cite Glenn Greenwald and Katie Herzog as two such New Contras: Both were solid journalists of the left, gradually chased out of respectable leftwing journalism spaces for disagreeing with mainstream orthodoxy.

Institutions like The New York Times and The Atlantic have grown much more squeamish about inviting dissenters into their midst. Publications are now occasionally beholden to staffers who think it's the job of journalists to run interference for the Democratic Party and hide stories from readers if they could conceivably help Trump. Many young rising stars in the world of investigative reporting think newsrooms have wrongly prioritized objectivity and should move toward a kind of "moral clarity" that is likely to make their institutions even more confused about why millions of people—roughly half the country—have aligned themselves with Donald Trump.

As independent thinkers exit the mainstream media, groupthink and blind spots among the legacy press are likely to get worse. The result would be a travesty, and not an outcome anyone should want or root for.

NEXT: The Nation's Top YIMBY Legislator Crushes His Socialist Opponent

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  1. Okay, when did Robby turn into perhaps the second-best writer here? (After Rommelman, of course.)

    1. this piece *is* entirely less objectionable than most here.

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    2. (After Rommelman, of course.)

      The Desert Fox is cool by the low bar of 2020 reason standards but I wouldn’t call her the best. My vote goes for Andrea Castillo O’Sullivan.

    3. I thought the “tallest midget” discussion was on another thread.

      1. I thought it was ‘leper with the most fingers’.

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    4. Sometime in the past year or so. Seems like he’s found his voice and lost a lot of the “to be sure” stuff. He’s doing a lot of good stuff lately.

    5. never.

      1. So, he’s always been the second best writer? Or is there someone you prefer. Someone has to be the best.

    6. Eh his policies weren’t the problem for me. Those come and go and are just part of the process. Some of his foreign policy was decent, especially in the middle east. Going after China on trade was long overdue.

      …But he was also a total catastrophe at home and has done immense damage to the body politic. His undermining of basic institutions (stop the count! Fraud! Show us the birth certificate!), his arsonist’s touch with civic trust, starting fires so he could be the one to put them out, inciting mobs and countermobs, and the insipid conspiracy theorizing and norm breaking were just not tenable for a free and pluralistic society based on rule of law.

      Basically, Trump is the guy in your team’s locker room that shoots a good shot but stirs up so much drama and needless bs that he destroys the team culture. A toxic, illiberal vortex on the home front.

      Thanks but no thanks.

      1. You will be DEAD WRONG if you think Deep State will be able to control President Harris.

        Deep state THINKS they can control her. I do not know if our military will obey her when she orders another war.

        I predict Harris will be the last president of only ONE United States. We will split into two separate countries when she tries to confiscate our guns.

        Be careful what you wish for.

        Sanjosemike (no longer in CA)

        1. In case you missed it the election is classed as critical infrastructure, Obama did this a few weeks before he left office. Therefore, Trump’s brand new agency CISA is all over the processes involved. True the states run the election. However if they are proven to have run it so poorly that it has devolved into a national security issue, rest assured it will be decided by the Supreme Court and likely a decision will be taken that ALL national elections must have Federal supervision at all levels. A good thing for everyone.

          I know this will not be accepted by the brainwashed leftists, that is their problem not mine. The fact is Biden and the complicit media are pushing narratives that he is winning based on the uncertified vote totals of 6 Democrat run states. The fact that these states refused to ensure their systems would run efficiently, are still counting while much larger states finished days ago and have seen suspicious Biden increases at 4am all mean that their results will be challenged and likely audited and recounted.

          It was a nice attempt by Biden and the complicit media to build a narrative that Biden has won, however it will not fly. The current influence operation underway to convince people this is so will fail and will expose even more media outlets as peddlers of fake news.

          The fact, the reality is that this election is critical infrastructure. State and federal authorities, adults will ensure the result is legal and certifiable. Any honest observer would conclude that there is a strong probability that the Biden vote totals have over stated.

          Therefore it would serve leftists well to ponder the probability that Trump’s tens of thousands of actual people, real life voters are likely more evidence of his win that the uncertified total we are currently seeing.

          Ask yourself this; on a scale of 1 to 10, how easy is it to run a legal and efficient election? How easy is it to run a complete shambles of an election that is disorganized to the point that vast numbers of unknown ballots could be introduced? If you are honest you’d see that the current play by these 6 Democrat run states is the far easier path than runnning an efficient and effective election. They’d have finished days ago if they were.

      2. The Democrats have done far more to undermine our institutions by participating in blatant fraud, that President Trump ever done.

        And Trump wasn’t the one inciting mobs. That’s strictly done by Democrats — and between destroying their own cities, and likely driving people to the polls to vote against them, it’s largely been an own goal.

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  2. >>The GOP will have little reason to shun Trump

    if Biden frauds his way into T’s seat, the GOP will likely never see T again. why would he bother?

    1. Senator Trump- Fl. (R)

      1. subservient to the Turtle?

        1. lol Don the true Puppet Master. The Trumptatorship never dies.

        2. Senator Trump- Fl. (R)

          I re-read this and realize it doesn’t come off as sarcastic as I thought.

          1. ya no I thought it was a true suggestion and considered it.

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    2. For his ego? Whatever happens, the Republicans would be crazy to not try to keep him around as a sort of party gadfly and figure out how to capitalize on the good parts of Trumpism. Say what you will, the Republican party has been remade into the party of Trump over the past 4 years- and it’s working. There is an energy and vision to the party that I haven’t seen in my adult lifetime. It felt kind of good yesterday having a national election where massive turnout was not considered a terrible thing for the Republican party- it wasn’t just depending on old people and single issue voters (pro-lifers, NRA voters, and the like) to squeak out wins in low-turnout elections. The Ds seem like the party that is uptight and humorless now, and that’s a big deal. Yeah, it didn’t work out completely this time, but the Rs need to have the stones to stick with it. They’re onto something here, and should resist the temptation to fall back into their old ways.

      1. >>the Republicans would be crazy to not try to keep him around

        which ones? half of (R) is Never-T.

        >>There is an energy and vision to the party that I haven’t seen in my adult lifetime.

        to the Trump, not the party … but I agree otherwise to you above

        1. “which ones? half of (R) is Never-T.”

          That half advocated voting Democrat for the last 4 years, so they can go fuck themselves.

          1. A vote for Biden is treason.

          1. “5% not half.”

            No, it’s not even 5%. Trump got more votes in both elections than Mitt Romney ever did. Maybe it’s 1%.

            1. Establishment (R) could have helped, instead they wanted T gone.

      2. Say what you will, the Republican party has been remade into the party of Trump over the past 4 years- and it’s working.

        Working so well that he never won the popular vote.

        A party that can only scrape by in spite of popular will is not a healthy party, even if it can use undemocratic systems (the Electoral college, gerrymandering, etc.) to stay on life support.

        1. It can be expanded upon. If Trump was a bit more succinct, a bit less abrasive but still willing to fight, he would have won. The Republicans take his message, and work on marketing more to mineoitiesknd they can maybe win both electoral college and popular vote. Build on Florida and Texas. Trump won the most Hispanic county in the nation last night. It can be done, and it was in Texas so it wasn’t just Cubans he improved with. He won ta heavily union blue collar county that Republicans haven’t won in 40byears in Ohio. Use this to gain more power in California, Oregon and Washington and maybe you dont win those states but you brake the Democrats built in advantage in popular vote off the table. Give conservatives in those states reasons to come out and vote. In California, New Mexico hand Arizona increase Trump’s outreach to Hispanics. Use his inroads with people like Ice Cube to give blacks more reason to vote for the Republican brand.

          1. This is exactly right. Keep eking out those 3-5% gains in marginal constituencies and push the needle a bit: Find synergies with potentially sympathetic subcultures within minority demographics; Be somewhat competitive in the cities.

            Trump’s an ass, but he’s got good instincts. Say what you will about him, but the son of a bitch knows how to make a sale.

          2. If Trump was a bit more succinct, a bit less abrasive but still willing to fight, then he wouldn’t be Trump and not as popular. His divisiveness is his appeal to his base, but also his downfall, because he can’t expand his base for the same reason.

            Oh, and I love how people are grouping all the Hispanics together like they are some homogeneous blob. Cubans have about as much in common with other Spanish-speaking people from Central America as Mormons have with other heavily religious groups like Muslims. The Cubans have always leaned more conservative, because they came from a Communist regime.

            1. Trump won the most Hispanic county in the US, mainly Mexican and Central Americans. So it isn’t just Cubans. Great at generalizing there.

              1. The most Hispanic county in the US is Santa Clara, CA. Then Kern County, CA, followed by Travis County, TX, and then New York City. Out of those, Trump is only winning Kern County (with 50% of the vote) by a little over 1%. Is that the county you are talking about?

                1. Blahblahblah.

                  Are you going to say Trump’s totals in all those counties are NOT dramatically better than Republican totals in previous elections?
                  Quibbleriffic, man!

                2. There are 5 counties (boroughs) in NYC. The Bronx had a majority Hispanic/Latino population by the 2010 census, but i don’t think they make up half of eligible voters, given a significant % of non-Puerto Rican Hispanics are not yet citizens.

                3. I’m seeing it as Starr County, TX, which is 95% Hispanic. Population is about 60k. Maybe that other list has a population cutoff higher than that?

                  Trump is losing that county, but only by 5 points. It’s traditionally heavily Democratic (e.g., Obama beat McCain 84 to 15).

                  Soldiermedic might be thinking of Zapata County, TX, which is smaller (population about 14k). Trump won there this year by about 5 points. It’s also traditionally Democratic: voted ~70% for Obama twice.

              2. Chipper just repeats the liberal narrative of the day. This is literally what every liberal outlet was saying to explain Florida. Chipper doesn’t actually have any developed thoughts, he’s just a parrot.

            2. And fuck off with the idea Trump wouldn’t be as popular if less abrasive but as willing to fight. You are just a fucking generalizing asshole who hates anyone who ever dares to disagree in the slightest with you. Your opinion is shit because you aren’t anything close to objective or intellectually honest.

              1. And fuck off, I didn’t vote for Trump but I don’t hate his supporters.

                1. Who did you vote for?

                  1. Jorgenson. I’ve said that often.

              2. Hey now, why so angry? You come across as the asshole here.

                1. No, eunuch, he doesn’t.

                2. Pot, kettle, asshole.

                3. No, he doesn’t.

            3. The congruencies between Islam and Mormon are numerous and kind of embarrassing to a lot of Mormons.

        2. Fuck off with your “popular vote” idiocy. It’s not a relevant statistic. It does not matter to the outcome of the election. California and New York do not get to run the entire fucking country just because they’re populous. End Of Line.

          1. Oh yes they do. The coasts are where most of the people are, dingbat.

            1. ^That’s the problem with you lefties; always championing a monarchy king dictator. You complain about not getting your x,y,z free stuff while all along pretending such isn’t possible by city, county, or state government.

              You’re not after what you want from an election you’re after TAKING / DICTATING over ALL THE STATES…

              1. Wut.

                1. “California and New York do not get to run the entire fucking country just because they’re populous.”

                2. Youre a leftist pretending to be libertarian solely because you’re in a deep blue state. Keep cheering on the movement attempting one party rule.

        3. “Working so well that he never won the popular vote.”

          Didn’t win a cooking contest either; just as important to those not afflicted with TDS.

        4. undemocratic=constitutional

          Imagine that!

      3. Yeah, let’s see how you feel about it once the DOJ is permitted to investigate crimes and Biden can release everything that Trump held back, and Trump will no longer have the American taxpayer’s support in his endless appeals and challenges. Trump’s name will be toast.

        1. What crimes do you reference?

          We’ve got 2 Biden business associates handing over evidence to the fbi of bidens corruption and crimes. Plus the laptop (s) Plus texts from beaus widow proving hunter did something inappropriate with her 14 yo daughter.

          What do you got?

      4. Anything Trump does is refreshingly different than the “political” establishment. When he opens his mouth, I experience a gag reflex.

    3. It’s not Trump so much as the political realignment that he helped accelerate, which began back in October 2008 with TARP and the bank bailouts. For once, both sides’ base were pretty well united in wanting the banks to get fucked for their reckless actions during the housing boom and subsequent fraud that had kicked off the Great Recession. McCain, being the go-along-to-get-along establishment piece of shit that he was, actually could have gotten out in front of Obama and told these guys, “you fucked up, take your medicine and eat it,” but punted, did that bizarre “campaign suspension” to go back to Washington and grandstand, and ended up supporting the bailout.

      That was the first main break. The second was the nomination of Mitt Romney in 2012, as milquetoast a candidate as could be devised, but overall a decent, well-spoken person with a good track record. Normally, someone like that should have walked to victory during a period when the economy was still largely in the shitter, and the candidates party had obliterated most of the gains the Dems had made in 2006. Except there was one problem–Obamacare, Obama’s signature bill during his first term, was basically the same as a system Romney had signed off on as Massachusetts governor. Then, after trouncing Obama in the first debate, he turtled in the subsequent two debates and got his ass kicked in the general. That was the second big break.

      Meanwhile, Trump is trolling Obama relentlessly on Twitter, building up a support base rooted in 90s Reform Party populism, whose nomination Trump briefly chased in 2000. He starts talking about the things that had become most concerning to the Republican base–mass immigration, outsourcing of blue-collar jobs, and forever wars.

      The final straw was the GOP establishment’s nomination and subsequent push of Jeb Bush as the presumptive nominee to be the Jobber to the Stars for Queen Hillary’s coronation. It’s not a coincidence that Trump announced his own candidacy right after Jeb did–he knew how toxic the Bush name still was politically, and here the GOPe was playing right into his hands. The neocon pundits and operatives, who had dominated the party apparatus for at least 30 years but grown increasingly distant from the party’s base, led them to project their distaste of Trump’s bombast and clear opposition to their political agenda onto his supporters, leading dipshits like Kevin Williamson to argue that rust belt towns needed to die out, rather than offer reasonable suggestions as to how they might be made viable again.

      In the meantime, the Democratic party has all but remade itself into the party of corporatist globalism, including maintaining wars abroad and continuing the policy of simping for Chinese dollars that the Clintons sent into overdrive in the 1990s. Neither party is going back to what it was prior to Obama and Trump. Those days are gone.

      1. It all seems so orchestrated. Doesn’t it?

      2. I noted before that if you watch TV from the early 2000’s it is the EVIL CAPITALISTS that ship labor to foreign countries in order to make a quick buck. Today it is the EVIL TRUMP that tries to bring them back. In the span of 10 years we have completely reversed this issue and there isn’t a single bit of introspection from Democrats on that.

        1. Haha! Yes.
          Another reversal, although this one took longer, was “no blood for oil”/energy independence, turning into DAPL protests.
          That may have turned on the “drilling in ANWR” issue, but still.

          1. It’s like when you read the early Curious George books, from the mid-1900s. Curious George smokes.

          2. DAPL fucked themselves
            Other pipelines handled the PR and compliance shit just fine

        2. Yep. Pull up the movie Bulworth. That’s basically Trump’s platform.

          1. Trump does not have a platform.

            1. And Biden does? Other than pushing more government control and more taxes?

              1. One of the more silly ways that dishonest pieces of shit like DOL lie, is when they say they’re not leftists. Yet all they do is post lefty bullshit.

            2. Stop deflecting.

            3. He’s a magician then because even with no platform he lowered my taxes and created the best economy of my professional life.

      3. It is an absolute certainty that the mistake of 2016 will not be repeated. The career politicians will not allow it to happen again. Countermeasures will be adopted over the next few years to guarantee that the political establishment is protected, and both parties will be complicit.

        1. My feeling exactly. I’ve read a few articles from smart people who went to good colleges speculating this outcome was orchestrated by the DNC to squash the leftists and the GOP Establishment to squash Trump. It’s basically a power sharing arrangement. They point out the dearth of support for Trump’s election fraud claims in the traditional conservative media. (The “let’s make nice with the DNC and dump Trump” crowd in the GOP have been labelled “SurrenderCons” in one article I came across. It seems about right.)

          The DNC gets control of the executive branch and the House. (I get that the failure to achieve the promised “Blue Wave” is being viewed by the the left wing of the DNC as a disaster. Maybe that was never the real plan.) The GOP Establishment has nominal control of the Senate and the Supreme Court. Trump is removed to the relief of the RINOs, Neocons, and the Mitt Romneys of the GOP universe. The far left has been de-fanged. To the relief of Wall Street and the ‘Elite’ we have gridlock.

          I will not be surprised to see Pennsylvania (or Georgia and Nevada) called for Biden today to put him over the top. The Electoral College result will be close so that Biden will win but cannot claim a mandate. The power brokers win, as always. Meanwhile, Bezos sold stock and made $10.5 billion yesterday.

          The lingering problem for the GOP Establishment, Politico, and Jimmy Kimmel is that support for Trump and what people believe he represents in this country is very strong and very real. You can’t ignore the vote count in the 68,000,000 range and the fact that he nearly won a second term. I suspect that there are some in that 68,000,000 who aren’t the product of inbreeding, are not racists and reactionaries, and who have advanced college degrees from good schools (my wife and me, for example.) (Meanwhile, Trump will ‘fight the fight’ but much to the consternation of the MSM and the Left I have no doubt that he will leave office on his own accord, albeit giving the TDS Crowd a flip of his middle finger on the way out.)

          The elephant in the room remains that Biden is a figurehead, he will not finish his term, and that Kamala will be President. The 2022 Midterms presenting some interesting prospects for ‘Trumpism 2.0.’

      4. And it is increasingly growing into the party of wealthy and high upper middle class whites who lecture everyone on how they should live. The Republicans would be well advised to continue to grow their outreach to working class and middle class minorities, to continue to push back on the white progressive charges of racism by calling out white progressives blatant racism of low expectations. I say the RNC should use people like Klacik, Haley, Cameron and James in far more public roles in the party. And Klacik and Haley have the added bonus of being women. Also, also anytime the Democrats or the left attack Scott or Thomas, call it out, don’t let it go unchallenged, point out how racist it is. The same with misogynistic attacks on Barrett by D males.

        1. Yeah they are basically the warmongers and the media empire, all backed by Wall Street.

          Just like “real” Democrats on Main Street.

        2. Elections are a show from here out.
          The Global Socialist Party won’t allow any more threats to arise.
          You’ll be a subject, not a citizen.
          Liberty lost with little more than a whimper.

          1. i am afraid this will be true if Trump loses

          2. Yeah whatever. This is just giving up.

      5. The Democrats have always been about neofeudalism.

        1. Democrats Wet-Dream, “Please put the federal government in charge of EVERYTHING they weren’t suppose to be in charge of and stop them from doing anything that they are suppose to be doing.”

      6. Also, damn, that’s some good analysis. Well done, RRWP.

      7. I would pay to see a panel discussion that included an identifying overlay that said “Kevin Williamson-leading dipshit”.

      8. overall a decent, well-spoken person

        Well spoken? Nah. Decent? FUCK NO. He and his minions pulled some nasty underhanded shit on Ron Paul just to be a prick.

        -jcr

      9. Rust belt towns need to die off. Watching mining towns turn into ghost downs didn’t harm or hold back America.

    4. Remember “Tanned, rested and ready”?

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  4. Drumpf voters aren’t difficult to figure out at all. They supported a candidate whose draconian war on immigration is the moral equivalent of enforcing fugitive slave laws. (See the Shikha Dalmia masterpiece I link in my username.) And anyone who opposes Charles Koch’s open borders agenda is a bad person.

    #ImmigrationAboveAll

    1. That’s overstating things entirely. His war was on illegal immigration, and I would say he sought to increase legal immigration, simply not at the levels folks like you would appreciate.

      Fair to say he was skeptical of adding too many people to the nation, skeptical of it’s ability to absorb them, and skeptical that illegal immigration was a net positive.

      To call it a “war” on all immigration is a bit much. And your moral equivalent is beyond provocative.

      1. So now the Dems need to come out with their immigration plan and see how it flies. It is easy to be against someone else’s policy but now they need to be challenged to put up or shut up.

        1. There will be no coherent immigration plan from the left. The left has no intention of making any illegal immigrant a citizen. That would defeat the purpose of them being here in the first place. Toilets need scrubbed and lawns need mowed. If you made all the immigrants citizens (which I fully support by the way) you would have to pay unemployment, workers comp and minimum wage. Too damn expensive! The corporatists on the left would shit! The democrat politicians will never grant amnesty to illegal immigrants. Regardless of what the majority of there constituents think about the subject.

          1. More than anything it is to good a campaign issue for them to actually fix it. We’ll soon stop hearing about kids on cages, no matter how many Biden-Harris lock up.

          2. This is really where some future politician should seriously hit the wealthy elite – it’s essentially slave labor without the overhead.

          3. The DREAM act came from which side of the aisle? Which party defeated the 2013 bipartisan immigration reform bill in the house?

            1. Getting one or two Republicans to sign on isn’t bipartisan.

            2. Remember when you pretended you weren’t a Democrat.

              1. All the leftitarians do that. It is a sickness.

            3. Who killed the 2007 compromise bull despite being in a group of 8 senators who agreed to shoot down all poison pill amendments?

              Youre an ignorant one DoL

          4. There’s also the oil-and-water relationship of “Democrat” and “coherent”.

      2. PTC, OpenBordersLiberal-tarian is a troll account. Sometimes funny, sometimes not, but these opinions are not someone’s serious & earnest opinions.

        1. Well, to be fair, they probably are someone’s.

          1. And sadly, she writes for this magazine. :-\

  5. …it calls the validity of the profession into doubt.

    If only.

    The national journalist lives in a bubble that spent the last four years working to ostracize the Trump voter rather than understand him. That bubble is the same reason we have economy- and psyche-destroying lockdowns. They continue to make Trump’s case for him.

    1. Very true. There is no attempt to understand Trump voters. Ostracize, villify, and deride is all they’ve been attempting to do.

      We can also expect the national journalists to not understand why his voters are going to want him to stay and fight–no matter how much the journalists opine about the loss of norms and, of course, how Trump is a fascist, unwilling to let go of power. Trump’s voters have been pushed beyond the point of caring what those journalists think.

      1. I haven’t given a shit what journalists have said for years.

        The best part of the Trump presidency was that just by simply winning when he “wasn’t supposed to” was enough to have the establishment left (the media, academia, big tech – particularly social media, and big business in general) out themselves as little more than partisan shitbags who disdain the existence of those who don’t think exactly as they do. The concept of “experts” has been obliterated. Pollsters have been shown to be frauds. The curtain has been lifted on those fucks, and you can’t unsee it.

    2. They don’t care.
      They are Party media.
      Soon to be State media.
      Welcome to feudalism.

  6. Trump has exposed the incestuous nature of politics and the media. And the world is better off. The problem is really dumb people, including many posters here, continue to deny it. The fourth estate is bought and paid for and they don’t even care being called whores.

    1. Exactly this.

      The media has ruined its credibility with massive chunks of people, and they’re not gonna get that credibility back for a couple of generations, at best.

      1. Doesn’t matter.
        They’re seizing power through fraud right before our eyes.
        If we don’t take up arms, what will stop them?
        Voting?
        LOL.
        If they pull this off, they have free reign.
        We will be subjects, not citizens.

        1. Are you FBI, Nardz?

          1. No shit.

            The big fear from the election wasn’t Biden winning. It was the a fully United executive and legislative branch that could do whatever they please.

            That didn’t happen, and Team Red gained seats in the house. I’m thinking the bloodbath that’s gonna occur in 2022 will make 2012 look tame, with Team Red cleaning house.

            The sky will not fall. The camps will not be built. There is no path for a communist frenzy.

            The wailing and doomsday prognostication is making people like Nardz look absolutely retarded.

            1. I’m thinking the bloodbath that’s gonna occur in 2022 will make 2012 look tame, with Team Red cleaning house.

              There’s decent odds here, but less so than if there was a sweep. I’d expect the R’s to end up with a ~15 seat majority because the GOP Senate is going to frustrate a lot of the fever dreams.

              We heard a bit about unstable majorities, but I think 2020’s outcome may end up having a stabilizing effect on the coalitions as a whole. This will allow a new generation of apparatchiks on both sides to settle into their Face/Heel roles and not actually work to accomplish much while blaming the other side for all that ails the world.

            2. You guys are way too optimistic.
              They’ve demonstrated throughout 2020, and before, that they won’t be bound by laws.
              They ruined tens of millions of people’s lives without hesitation.
              They’re stealing the election in front of us.
              Why on earth would they allow restraint?

              1. Yeah and when your senate majority hangs on limp writers like Susan Collins it really isn’t a majority.

                They’ll bully her and other moderates on every piece of radical legislation they propose just like they did on the court nominations. Hopefully she realizes her ass was saved by trump being on her ballot and grows a spine.

              2. Nobody wants to admit that things have changed. This election is being stolen—right now—and we’re supposed to think that subsequent ones won’t be?

                The Right, and not-Left Libertarians here, are posting like they’ve 60+ Senate seats, an actual majority in the House, and a majority of Hispanics now voting for them. None of those are true. None are going to be true.

                It’s realistically 49-48 GOP in the Senate now (they’re just waiting for the dog sleds to get back with the votes, and AK’s race will be settled). That leaves two races in Georgia, where we’re seeing fraud continue—Perdue’s lead’s been cut to 2.5 from 4 on yesterday, and they’re still ‘counting.’ Then there’s NC, which hasn’t budged from 93% of the vote in, and a 1.8 lead for Tillis.

                You can’t assume those races have been won, or will be won. Not anymore. The Senate may not be stopping as much as you guys think it will.

                The GOP gained seats in the House. They still don’t, and very likely won’t, have a majority. Probably 2-3 seats away. Pelosi keeps her job, and the Dems keep committee chairs.

                Finally, no one has shown me that Trump winning over more Hispanic voters—but still not a large majority, if indeed he has one at all—is in any way, shape, or form transferrable to other GOP politicians. And Trump is done after this, should he lose. My guess is he’s in prison within 12 months. Not because he did anything wrong, but something will be found, and it will be a great lesson for anyone else thinking of getting in the way.

              3. That said, let the courts do their job right now. There is no need to go open the last box.

                Honestly, there never will be. The Right seems to think those guns are a magic talisman that makes the boogeyman go away, and keeps politicians honest. We’d frankly be better off if we’d never had them, or the Second Amendment, because it would have FORCED us to learn to organize, communicate with like-minded people, and use other means for exerting political and social pressure in order to achieve our goals.

                Like the Left has done.

        2. We’ve been subjects for years.

    2. “Dumb people” are Trump’s base. Poorly educated QAnon gulping Fat Rush Limbaugh listening white trash.

      1. Smart people support Trump too. Just can’t be vocal otherwise you commit career suicide.

      2. Lefty ignoramuses like turd here supported he hag and slobbering Joe.

      3. “Smart people” post kiddie porn links on HnR.

      4. Who are still smarter than you. That must really hurt.

      5. If the left and their quest for socialism is smart then Hitler was an Einstein.

        1. Oh wait; my bad. Einstein almost failed out of “commie-education”. He must of been a Dumb Trump-er. I’m sure Hitler was a huge honor’s student of “commie-education” though. Ya know the education that teaches people to run around like a chicken with their head cut off crying about the sky is falling. I suppose those are the one’s you label as the “smart” ones.

  7. Lots of people don’t appreciate being called “white supremacists” especially when they’re not white. Also Trump was not the limp rag Romney or the media whore McCain. Those two were also called nazis and had no personality or charisma against Obama. Trump has charisma and is popular with many people despite the media’s bootlicking of the democrats and their slavish devotion to smearing anyone who disagrees with the left. But mostly he was the only option to win against the socialist marxist left wing democrats who proved their worth by looting rioting and murdering. Fortunately it looks like they won’t get the senate, losing seats in the house, and the midterms could be a bloodbath.

    But whatever Biden will retire (willingly or not) and Harris is the real candidate. A lot of people were voting against her narcissistic sociopathic brand of politics.

  8. To the media, Trump voters were “not us”.

    1. to Establishment (R) also.

      1. Small point of clarification: To the establishment Red operative, Republicans were sheep ready to be fleeced. I read a report on how many of the “Tea Party Organizations” ended up being nothing more than salary gigs for a bunch of party apparatchiks. They would source a couple million dollars, spend $100k on ads, pocket a $300,000 salary and roll the money into some general fund.

        Team Blue has its own problems, but these grifters have been rotting out the GOP for years as they sucked it dry. And wonder of wonders, Trump came in and kicked them to the curb. And then they became the Lincoln Project.

        1. Team Blue has its own problems, but these grifters have been rotting out the GOP for years as they sucked it dry. And wonder of wonders, Trump came in and kicked them to the curb. And then they became the Lincoln Project.

          I’m sure that’s where a huge amount of their bitterness comes from. The Golem they created was expected to perpetuate the neocon “controlled opposition” agenda for the foreseeable future, and the rapid shift to nationalist populism caught them completely flat-footed. These guys are all Democrats now, and they will remain that way as long as the Democrats continue paying their bills.

  9. At the moment, the leader of the Republican Party is an authoritarian populist who claims to represent the “true” will of the people

    Which describes Obama. Bush II, Clinton, Bush I, Reagan …. perhaps not Jimmy Carter, and perhaps not Coolidge, but sheesh, what a worthless description.

    1. No, this is different. Reagan said “If we love our country, we should also love our countrymen”. Can you honestly say the same ethos now applies on Team Red, when applied to *all* the “countrymen”? The modern Right seems much more keen to treat American citizenship not as a legal concept, but as a cultural concept. Remember Sarah Palin’s “Real Americans”?

      1. You may be right; it’s not like Trump helped any minority groups to the lowest unemployment figures in history, or raised minority wages to the highest point in history, or cut the taxes minorities pay.

        1. Did he cut taxes for the lower brackets? Wasn’t much if at all and probably wiped out by the trade war.

          1. You are in lala land. Since Trump presidency began, company I work for has gone from paying $14 an hour for entry level warehouse guys (literally no difficult skills required, just move, handle boxes, follow directions). Now we can barely get dregs to show up for interviews starting at $19/20 per hour. Every POTUS overstates economic claims, but I don’t think this is coincidence. I think Trump’s combination of deregulation, tax cuts, trade war, and immigration emphasis probably lead to very significant increases in pay rates for workers without in demand job skills.

          2. “Did he cut taxes for the lower brackets?..:

            Yes, lefty shit.

            1. Yeah, but did he cut taxes for the unemployed, black market and grey market folks who don’t pay taxes?? Huh, did he?

              The monster.

          3. https://www.cato.org/blog/who-gained-tax-cuts

            The middle-middle received the largest tax cuts on a per capita basis. The lower quintiles as a whole do not pay any income tax so they do not directly benefit from a tax cut, though they did receive a boost to income in the form of additional refundable credits.

          4. The fact it’s after election day and you didn’t know this should tell you a few things about where you get your info and how stupid you are

        2. I said that Team Red increasingly wants to treat American citizenship as a *cultural* concept, not a racial one. Interesting that you went straight to the “minority” angle.

          1. The Republicans love the country men more than progressives do. That is fairly self evident for anyone who has seen cancel culture, antifa (even if it is just an idea not an organization) etc. Calling them rednecks that need to go away. Telling them they have no place at the table. Etc. It isn’t just conservatives but progressives who are guilty of using culture as a weapon to say who is and isn’t a true citizen. Also, non stop charges of everyone on the right is racists, misogynists and enablers.

            1. Not telling them to go away, telling them that the only reason they even have a shot at pulling the levers of power is a few historical happenstances that place incredibly lopsided voting power in the hands of a few rural people who do not represent the majority at all.

              Just as it would be helpful for big city liberals to avoid talking down to rural people, it would be helpful if rural people remembered that they are a minority who is not entitled to have their way, and are in fact very lucky to have the power that they do.

              1. To bad we are a federal republic so yes rural people have power. To bad you don’t understand that. It is a representative republic not a fucking democracy shithead.

                1. A representative republic does not mean that a minority should be able to rule over the majority. Please find me a definition that says that.

                  1. I appreciate that the election has led you to arguing for majority rules.

                    1. When it comes to elections, what other standard should there be? We are talking about selecting office holders here, not setting moral guidelines.

                  2. No one is suggesting the minority should rule over the majority. Don’t be an idiot. It’s the Madisonian Model or Dilemma. Our Constitutional representative republic allows for a push and pull between the majority and minority to ensure that one does not rule over the other. Sometimes one wins and sometimes the other wins. I know I really shouldn’t make judgments or assumptions about your intent because it’s hard to gauge someone’s tone over the internet, but your attitude puts off a vibe that if it were up to you, the majority would always lord over the minority.

              2. Ah, we’re going with the “Wyoming has more voting power than California” meme, I see.

                1. While true, it’s not like California is getting the short end of the stick here, or that red states are truly outsized beneficiaries.

                  https://theconversation.com/whose-votes-count-the-least-in-the-electoral-college-74280

                  Though I don’t know why we don’t just all go to the ME/NE system and put this baby to bed.

                  1. In no universe does a state with three electoral votes have more power than one with 55.

                    1. True enough, though each Californian has less Presidential voting power than each Wyoming…..ite?

                    2. True enough, though each Californian has less Presidential voting power than each Wyoming…..ite?

                      No, they don’t. If they did, you wouldn’t have conceded that California has more power than Wyoming.

                      You’re arguing for the popular vote position, and that’s not what’s in place.

                2. Is there a leftist narrative chipper hasn’t pushed?

              3. “it would be helpful if rural people remembered that they are a minority who is not entitled to have their way”

                Spoken like a true authoritarian. I bet you wouldn’t say that to black Americans. Just admit you hate rural people; that you hold them in contempt. Why? Because they’re Christians? They don’t have fancy jobs in big tech? They’re not as “sophisticated” as city folk? They don’t meet your standards of what you consider to be an education? Why does that even matter? You have to have a college degree to have an informed opinion? Or maybe you just think they’re all racist? How would you know? Did you go out and ask them all? Last time I checked they’re still Americans with rights. That kind of superiority complex is toxic. That kind of thinking leads to tyranny. You want to punish rural people for not having the same opinions as you by lording over them and rubbing their noses in it. You are sick. Your mind is fucked up. I’m a city boy in a blue state. And even I can recognize the stereotypes and caricatures of rural people as total BS. Why is it ok to do that to them but not other groups of people?

                The majority isn’t “entitled” to get their way either. How many people want a particular policy is irrelevant. What matters is achieving the votes according the rules at the local, state, or federal level to implement a policy or getting a candidate elected. We have implemented the Madisonian Model or Dilemma in this country. Our Constitutional representative republic allows for a push and pull between the majority and minority to ensure that one does not rule over the other. Sometimes one wins and sometimes the other wins.

                So you can take your authoritarian fantasies and fever dreams and shove them up your misanthropic ass.

          2. My neighbor is the one who treats me better than the politician does. A lot of the people commenting here think I’m a redneck rube who should fuck off and die.

            I’ll take the ones that embrace the culture of caring about those who have different opinions, ideas, and beliefs as true americans, whether that means mudding in the national forest or eating sushi at a hipster fusion dig.

            My big beef is with the power elite who divide us through curated facts, censorship, rhetoric, and outright lies.

          3. Citizenship tests, by their very nature, are products of the dominant culture.

      2. If you honestly think that culture isn’t a critical ingredient to maintaining a stable society, you’re even dumber than I thought. You should really try reading some history about what happens to truly diverse societies–they don’t last long and eventually start fighting over resources and devolve shortly thereafter until a dominant culture asserts itself.

        1. E Pluribus Unum means what again?

          1. What was the dominant culture during the Revolution, again?

          2. That is a cultural norms you fucking idiot. Fuck you rejoinder is exactly what a fucking cultural norm is. The funny thing is you think that was clever.

        2. And show me in the constitution where the government has an obligation or right to enforce a particular culture’s norms.

          1. Study anthropology. All cultures create and enforce their own cultural norms, have since long before primates decided climbing out of the trees and walking on just two limbs was a good idea. God you are tiresome.

            1. But does is say that anywhere in the Constitution?

              1. It’s not about legalism, you tard.

              2. Yes. The entire document is product of classic liberal and judeo Christian cultures, which began blending post Renaissance into the enlightenment in Europe.

          2. It’s not about legalism, you tard.

      3. I conciders real Americans to be radical individualist, but you wouldn’t know anything about that

      4. Which party is marching with guillotine and shooting, burning, and looting you fucking retard?

      5. same is true for both sides. it is maddeningly common to see the world in absolutes of with us or against us. team blue is just smart enough not to put the loudest hate spewers on the top of their ticket.

  10. The media keeps assuming that the Trump voter cares about policy, or even the concept of “truth”, but they don’t. They like the cruelty, the selfishness, the bigotry, and the nationalism, and they want more. Trump gives that too them. We have never had a politician who inspired such cult-like devotion in the US before. It is a new type of politics that we have not seen yet.

    1. Obama the light bringer was cultish enough to get a Nobel Peace Prize before he was even inaugurated. Then he waged war like no President since JFK/LBJ/Nixon, didn’t have the decency to return his Peace Prize, and was still a cult leader. He’s got Trump beat seven ways since Sunday.

      1. Obama endured his fair share of protests *from the left*.

        Remember this?

        https://www.cnn.com/2011/10/17/politics/latino-obama-protests/index.html

        “Since signaling a new course in our immigration policy a few weeks ago, President Obama has continued his aggressive persecution, jailing, and deportation of hundreds of thousands of immigrants who he has labeled ‘criminals’ and whose lives are being destroyed through traffic violations and similar minor infractions,” said Roberto Lovato of Presente.org, a Latino rights organization.

        Substitute “Trump” for “Obama” and this Mr. Lovato could have been describing Trump instead.

        Which right-leaning group has protested Trump like this? All of the major right-wing organizations have completely fallen in line and those who don’t agree with Trump were thrown out of the coalition.

        1. You mean you e never heard of Never-Trumpers?

          GTFO.

          1. The “Never Trumpers” became very quiet or complicit. A few spoke up in the last few months, but only those who are retired.

              1. Lindsey Graham in 2016: Trump is a “race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot”

                Lindsey Graham in 2020: He’s now besties with Trump!

                Ted Cruz in 2016: “Vote your conscience” (i.e., it’s okay if you’re a Republican and you don’t vote for Trump)
                Trump in 2016: Cruz’s father killed JFK!
                Now of course, Trump and Cruz pal around with each other and try to out-tough each other on border security.

                The NeverTrumpers with any spine were completely sidelined within a few months. The Jeff Flakes and John McCain and so forth. Everyone else either left or hopped on board the Trump Train.

                1. You are clueless about the right. Maybe go and learn something before casting about your prejudices.

                  1. You could argue your point by providing counter points and sources.

                    Too hard?

                    1. No, but all my sources are behind paywalls, comprised of walls and walls of comments concerning fights on the right for the last 4 years, from right libertarians, never trumpers, etc.

                      You cite politicians, but neglect the pundits of the right that still drive quite a bit of clout and are not party to the infighting on the right because you lack curiosity.

            1. The NeverTrumper contingent literally endorsed Biden and his neocon bonafides.

              Thanks for revealing you don’t actually care about perpetual war or helping minorities.

          2. The NeverTrumpers were gone by about the first six months.

            Which right-leaning activist group protested Trump like the immigrant rights group above did to Obama?

            Did the NRA? Did some Christian group?

            1. Is there some point to this inquiry? The open borders activists disliked what Obama did (and the right groups did not protest him, for that very reason) and so they protested his actions.

              Right groups do not disapprove of Trump’s policies, and so do NOT protest them. (while the open borders activists carry on protesting, of course)

              Your implication that the two situations are equivalent, or somehow should be, is baffling. Or maybe just stupid. Or mendacious. Or both.

            2. So the Lincoln project wasn’t real? You say really stupid shit.

    2. dude the whole point was T isn’t a politician.

      1. You can plausibly argue that in 2016 he wasn’t a politician.

        But after holding the premier political position in the world for four years? He is, by definition, a politician.

        1. EscherEnigma
          November.4.2020 at 7:03 pm
          “You can plausibly argue that in 2016 he wasn’t a politician.
          But after holding the premier political position in the world for four years? He is, by definition, a politician.”

          You are full of shit. Here’s a hint: If you are a politician, you can only ‘get fired’ once in an election cycle. Those who hold a job can get fired any time.
          Truman was a (failed) retailer in the only job he ever held. JFK? Slopped at the public trough from day one, rode on daddy’s bankroll. Nixon at least had to help the family farm before such slopping.
          LBJ? Ha, and ha.
          Ford is one of the few R politicians who never held a job
          Carter was supposedly involved in business, but like Newsom, he funded some efforts, but actually running a business? Well:
          “The story of Jimmy Carter’s peanut farm is a bit more complicated than you may have heard”
          https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/09/18/story-jimmy-carters-peanut-farm-is-bit-more-complicated-than-you-may-have-heard/
          Reagan at least sold his talents, and Bush (1) knew how to run a business.
          Clinton did little other than weather-vane and slop at that trough; His hag wife, ditto from day one.
          Bush 2 ran businesses, but ended up as almost as bad as the ‘social activist’, the lying POS Obo.
          Hint: There is a strong bias on the D side who have zero knowledge of what it takes to run a business.

    3. I think part of it is that Trump reflects what they also see on Fox News and other right-wing sources, because Trump is totally a creature of right-wing media. So when your Trump supporter says “he tells it like it is!”, that is because they are both reading from the same script. Trump and his supporters mutually reinforce each other via the right-wing media bubble.

      1. >>Trump reflects what they also see on Fox News

        oy

      2. Shocking, somebody who hasn’t watched FNC on years.

        FNC news is not different than CNN. Their opinion hosts are the best in the world and the only reasons to watch that shithole.

        1. FN gets multiples of the viewership of CNN.

          1. Because one channel is pure shit doesn’t mean the other isn’t. The Right is in the process of walking away from FNC.

      3. You know, we think you are being lied to and manipulated by your media.

        I checked out of right and left media during Obama’s 2008 bid. I felt both were lying and manipulating me. It’s why I rely more on sites with comments in my reading, because the media doesn’t deserve an uncriticical platform. Its why I read here – for the comments.

        I get more from sound argument and what other people find from around the interwebs than what I get from journalists of any stripe.

        How many Trump speeches did you listen to? Without being told what to think? “Trump said something racist! He said, ‘[some out of context thing].’ So Racist!” Did it ever occur to you that they are telling you what to think? Do you know anything about Proud Boys beyond what CNN and NYT have reported? Have you watched their videos to attempt to draw your own opinion?

        If not, then you have no business criticizing the right for their media consumption.

        1. Any site without comments is not worth reading.

      4. lmao…. Fox News = “media bubble”…. Is that like “mom & pops tiny repair shop” = monopoly??? I’m sure CNN, MSNBC, NBC, Holywood, etc, etc, etc, ALL coming from Liberal CA is just media and not a “media bubble”. You’re entirely and completely blinded by your own bias to absurd levels.

    4. Yep… Bigotry got it him the largest minority turnout for a republican ever.

      That was definitely it.

  11. A one-term president who probably gets indicted next year. Winning!

    1. By state courts, maybe… but nothing federal. Biden is too interested in offering an olive branch to Republicans† for that.
      ________
      †Which they will, of course, refuse.

      1. Yep, I agree. It’s possible a few RINO Senators accept the branch though.

        1. *snicker* The same Biden who repeatedly directly insulted voters is seeking olive branches?

          Fuck him. Take the branch and pummel him with them until he cannot walk.

      2. “…Biden is too interested in offering an olive branch to Republicans† for that…”

        Biden isn’t interested in much at all, outside of what Hunter the pimp has arranged.

    2. “A one-term president who probably gets indicted next year. Winning!”

      Biden should be indicted about then, if not sooner.

    3. they’ll get around to it eventually!

    4. “Winning” WHAT??? The entire destruction of the USA…. Yeah.. What a great goal to accomplish…. Wish all you USA haters would just MOVE to your own favorite policy h*llhole country and leave the USA alone.

  12. As childish as it is, I actually like Van Jones’ humorous “whitelash” term but I doubt he’d tolerate a white person creating & using the term “blacklash”.

    1. And here I thought BLM was “blacklash”.

  13. It’s not that they haven’t figured Trump supporters out. It’s that they hate Trump supporters just like they hated Trump’s policies.

    They hated Trump’s policies on immigration.

    They hated Trump’s policies on international trade.

    Guess what? I hated his policies on those things, too. But those aren’t the only policies the left and the establishment right hated about Trump.

    They hated his foreign policy. They hated his pragmatism.

    They hated his tax cuts. They hated his deregulation.

    They hated his unwillingness to bail out the states. They hated his efforts to repeal ObamaCare. They hated his support for gun rights. They hated his total opposition to the Green New Deal.

    And most of all, far, far above the rest, they hated Trump’s supporters.

    It isn’t that the Democrats and the media don’t understand Trump’s supporters. It’s that they hate their guts. They hate the white, blue collar, middle class for being white, blue collar, and middle class. Because they’re white, they’re racists. Because they’re blue collar, they’re too stupid to sacrifice their standard of living on the altar of climate change. Because they’re blue collar, they don’t support uncontrolled immigration. Because they’re middle class, they’re opposed to socialism. Hell, some of them are even Christians, and that means they’re homophobic misogynists.

    Don’t ask why the left doesn’t understand Trump supporters. Ask why the left hates Trump supporters–and they do. They really do. Ask any progressive you want why it is that Trump supporters think progressives hate them, and their response will quickly turn into a discussion about why Trump supporters should be hated.

    1. Well said, sir.

      Don’t ask why the left doesn’t understand Trump supporters.

      They don’t want to understand. Understanding takes listening and effort.

      1. And the thing is that they do understand.

        They understand America First, too. Sorry if this isn’t in the best interests of the Kabul government, the Kurds, the Germans, or the French, but I’m the president of the United States–so I put America first.

        They hate that.

        They want you to sacrifice your standard of living for the polar bears, the Maldivians, and others in the developing world. There isn’t anything about the Paris Accords that puts America first.

        They have no intention of putting America first. Progressivism is defined as the belief that the purpose of government is to force individuals to make sacrifices for the greater good as they see it. That extends to international policy in so many ways–because their idea of the greater good isn’t for the greater good of America. It’s for the greater good of the world. How dare you think that we shouldn’t sacrifice our standard of living for the poor people of the developing world, you selfish racist. How dare you put American first?

        1. As a proud globalist, I’ll just say it: Why should America come first? We all share one planet. We are all individuals each entitled to human dignity and individual liberty regardless of our origin of birth. I don’t agree with global progressivism, but I do agree with recognizing the liberty and dignity of all people everywhere, that Americans are not entitled to more fundamental liberty just because we were born in one geographic location. Nationalists like Trump want to put Americans on a pedestal and claim that we are special and unique and deserve better treatment than the rest of the world because we were ordained by God or something to be entitled to it. No we’re not. We are human beings just like the French are human beings and just like the Maldivians are human beings.

          1. “Why should America come first?”

            Because we are America, fuckwit.

            Why should Americans give two shits what France needs? They don’t give any shits about what we need.

            “I do agree with recognizing the liberty and dignity of all people everywhere, that Americans are not entitled to more fundamental liberty just because we were born in one geographic location.”

            So….wars without end. Nice. Impressed that somebody thinks the Iraq War was a good idea after this time, but here we go. I mean, we were trying to help the Iraqis. Isn’t that all that counts?

            ” Nationalists like Trump want to put Americans on a pedestal and claim that we are special and unique and deserve better treatment than the rest of the world because we were ordained by God or something to be entitled to it.”

            Trump feels America should deal with, you know, AMERICA. If you think we need to rebuild the world, then you need to be dealt with.

            1. You fail to comprehend what “globalism” means.

              Global free trade deals advantage the USA because we are the most efficient producers. Global Non Nuke treaties like Iran advantage the US so we don’t waste money on unnecessary defense. Global pollution deals advantage the US because pollution costs hurt us most.

              Lay off the Bannon poison Kool-Aid.

              1. “Global free trade deals advantage the USA because we are the most efficient producers.”

                One candidate offered absolutely zero tariffs. That candidate was Trump. Nobody took him up on it. C’est la vie. If we’re going to do free trade, do free trade. Otherwise, it is just managed trade.

                “Global Non Nuke treaties like Iran advantage the US so we don’t waste money on unnecessary defense.”

                The deal that literally did not stop Iran from getting nukes in any way, shape, or form? Getting out of that has only led to several peace deals in the ME (how many, uh, did Obama/Biden sign? Zero?).

                “Global pollution deals advantage the US because pollution costs hurt us most.”

                I know dark-skinned folks trying to improve their lives is anathema to the Left, but the whole climate movement is inherently and utterly racist.

                Also given how their major conferences seem devoid of teleconferencing at all and they oppose nuclear energy, their concerns about pollution are utter bullshit. Have been for decades.

                1. Bullshit. The Iran deal had an end point like all deals. Obama’s TPP was the most free trade pact ever. And fuck “brown people” because I don’t use race as a fulcrum.

                  1. “Bullshit. The Iran deal had an end point like all deals.”
                    Which Obo punted and you continue to defend; is it the coke talking, or just your idiocy?

                    “Obama’s TPP was the most free trade pact ever.”
                    Your ‘stupid’ ate your cite, and your ‘stupid’ is probably going to continue to do so; you’re full of shit.

                    “And fuck “brown people” because I don’t use race as a fulcrum.”
                    Claiming =/= true, and your claims are, oh, maybe 2-5% true, turd.
                    Fuck off and die.

                  2. You really are retarded.

              2. Lol. The idiots believe the facial talking points and have never understood globalism at even a minimal level.

            2. The Vietnam War and the Iraq War –neither of these wars were in the best interests of the United States.

              A good reason to care about America first is because it keeps us from making big mistakes and spreading misery in the world.

              The Soviet Union and the CCP did a lot of terrible things to make the rest of the world a better place.

              The original intent of British Imperialism was abolitionism–to stamp the slave trade out at its source. It all ended in tears–just like the Napoleonic Wars.

              You know what is in our best interests? International trade. We didn’t trade with the Chinese because it was in their best interests. We were pursuing our own interests. And boy, was that ever in the best interests of the Chinese, too. Never have so many people been lifted out of abject poverty so quickly as the Chinese people were after they joined the WTO in 2001. If the terms of that trade were no longer in our best interests, maybe they should have been renegotiated–again, however, the appropriate question isn’t whether it’s in the best interests of the Chinese or the tortured people of Xinjiang. The question that should matter is whether it’s in the best interests of the United States.

              You see, when everyone is pursuing their own best interests from their own perspective, it always leads to the best possible outcomes from the most people. It’s almost as if there were an invisible hand of benevolence guiding us to do the best things for the most people, but it’s just people pursuing their own best interests. It works that way at the national level, too. The best outcomes happen when the United States is pursuing its own best interests–not just for us but also for the rest of the world.

              The reason the Arab states started allying themselves with each other and Israel against Iran is because Trump made it clear to them that it wasn’t in the best interests of the United States to guarantee their security. The Iranians seized our allies’ tankers and we did nothing. The Iranians attacked the oil facilities of our allies, and Trump did nothing. Trump retaliated against the Iranian general who ordered the attack after they targeted American contractors. When the the Turks came blazing into Syria to go after our allies the Kurds, we made it clear that it wasn’t in the best interests of the United States to go to war over the Kurds.

              Over time, it became clear to to Bahrain, the UAE, Sudan, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia itself, that the United States will not guarantee their security if it isn’t in our best interests to do so, so they better start making powerful allies in the region with each other and Israel. Again, this is America First and pursuing our own best interests making peace in the world. That’s the invisible hand at work again. Pursuing our own interests drives markets, evolution, and the best foreign policy.

              I shudder to think what will happen in the Middle East when the Biden administration decides that the Kurds and the Palestinians are more important than American interests, lives, and treasure. That kind of thinking leads to bloodbaths.

              1. You see, when everyone is pursuing their own best interests from their own perspective, it always leads to the best possible outcomes from the most people.

                That type of thinking only works if one takes a more enlightened view of what one’s own best interests are. For example suppose your neighbor is being treated unjustly by the authorities. What is “your best interest” in this case? Is it to not get involved? Mind your own business? That is a rather myopic view. A more enlightened view would be to recognize that if my neighbor’s rights are being violated, then that means my own rights are in jeopardy and I should act to protect his rights because protecting his rights is also protecting my rights. If you take the America First who-gives-a-shit-about-anyone-else approach then you are placing your own rights and privileges in jeopardy when there is no one around left to stand up for your rights.

                When the the Turks came blazing into Syria to go after our allies the Kurds, we made it clear that it wasn’t in the best interests of the United States to go to war over the Kurds.

                And so this is the myopic thinking that I was talking about. Who-gives-a-shit-about-the-Kurds is not an enlightened self-interest, it is just plain isolationism. It doesn’t mean that we go to war to protect the Kurds, but it doesn’t mean we throw them under the bus either.

                1. “That type of thinking only works if one takes a more enlightened view of what one’s own best interests are…”

                  OK, folks, we now have an admission that ‘more enlightened’ = ‘The New Soviet Man’.
                  No, Jeff it works everywhere and always to improve prosperity, make people free, and (with any kind of luck) make asshole idiots like you visible as the asshole idiots you are.
                  Fuck off and die.

                2. Jeff just argued for global policing and wars.

            3. This isn’t about “America” or “France”. This is about *individuals* living in America, and *individuals* living in France. Why should you care about the rights of every individual? Because their liberties are your liberties.

              So….wars without end.

              No, dumbass. You are confusing (intentionally) philosophy with tactics. That I believe every individual deserves fundamental human liberty does not necessarily mean I support the tactic of imposing it by force via war. You’re opposed to abortion, right? Do you support creating an abortion-free world by murdering every abortion doctor everywhere? Or maybe you instead favor nonviolent means to achieve your objective?

              That the Iraq war was a bad idea doesn’t mean that Iraqis, or anyone else, don’t deserve individual liberty.

              1. Yes deserve liberty, no it isn’t our job to provide it. Fuck off. The US government should focus on the US. Period.

          2. This is like asking why you should like your own kids more than you like mine.

            Like saying you should be equally responsible for my kids as you are for yours.

            As president of the US, the President’s first priority is the people directly under his own authority – not someone else’s. And just like I can’t force you to parent your kids my way, our leader should not be forcing other countries to behave the way we think is best. You do both through relationship, persuasion, and trust building to convince them to change.

            1. And here we see why Jeff hates Trump: He’s not authoritarian enough.

              Because let’s face it, trying to force other countries to live the way we think is best is no less authoritarian than some fucking Karen doing the same thing to a black family having a barbecue in the park.

            2. It takes a village. Hillary said so.

          3. “chemjeff radical individualist
            November.4.2020 at 8:02 pm
            “As a proud globalist,..”

            You misspelled ‘virtue signaler’, but not to worry, no one was confused.

          4. This is why liberaltarians are the most fatuous political tribe in the nation. They’d literally sell out their own grandmother if it meant not having to mow their lawn and being able to buy a tshirt for $5 less, and believe in the laziest type of relativism. They’re consooooooooomerist zombies with no future-time orientation whatsoever.

            1. Oh look at you, intentionally misrepresenting my position.

              Did I say anything about consumerism? Umm, no. This is about fundamental human liberty, of ALL humankind, not just Americans. Americans are not more special in that regard. That capitalism and liberty are strongly connected does not mean that the motivation for wanting more liberty around the globe is driven by crass consumerist garbarge. Liberty is important whether it is accompanied by cheap consumer goods or not.

              1. “Did I say anything about consumerism? Umm, no. This is about fundamental human liberty, of ALL humankind, not just Americans.”

                You misspelled ‘virtue signaler’, but not to worry, no one was confused.

              2. Globalism is the antithesis of human liberty. Human liberty doesn’t tolerate labor conditions so bad you need suicide nets outside your factory to keep your workers from flinging themselves to death. Globalism is literally “one size fits all” solutions to local problems.

                Globalism=liberty and radical individualism. Sure. Get the fuck out of here with that vacuous argument.

                1. Sure, because human liberty will flourish when the globe is dominated by tinpot dictators oppressing the citizens in their little fiefdoms.

                  Globalism is not “one size fits all” solutions to everything. Globalism is the recognition that citizens of China are no less human than citizens of America and it is wrong for any government to say “since you were born on the other side of this arbitrary line, therefore we are entitled to treat you like dirt and subhuman garbage and fuck you for no other reason than based on where you were born”. That is wrong. It does NOT mean “tell everyone how to live”. It DOES mean that all individuals deserve basic respect for their human rights and human dignity. HOW this is accomplished is a separate question. But the fundamental premise must remain that all individuals are entitled to human liberty.

                  1. Yes. Globalism requires one size fits all. Because any time a country finds an advantage they have to be kept from utilizing it. Youre an idiot. Youre very close to global communism.

                  2. Sure, because human liberty will flourish when the globe is dominated by tinpot dictators oppressing the citizens in their little fiefdoms.

                    How’s human liberty been doing under globalism lately?

          5. Nationalists like Trump want to put Americans on a pedestal and claim that we are special and unique and deserve better treatment than the rest of the world because we were ordained by God or something to be entitled to it. N

            Nationalists believe our government should look out for Americans because that’s their job. If people want to help those in the Sudan go there and do it yourself. The belief America is responsible for people in other countries is how we end up in wars around the world.

            But note how Jeff must absurdly misstate what people believe to justify himself. If he had a better argument for his position he wouldn’t have to do that.

            1. “Nationalists believe our government should look out for Americans because that’s their job.”

              This isn’t even nationalism per se. It’s common sense.

              When I invest in a company, I expect the CEO to be primarily concerned with the good of the company–not someone else.

              When I start a private club, I expect the club to be concerned with the good of club members.

              When I elect a school board member, I expect him or her to be primarily concerned with the school.

              Let’s not conflate nationalism with patriotism or common sense. The elected leader of a group should be looking out for the good fo the group.

              We should also take care not to throw pearls before emotional ninnies who respond to our arguments with posts about their feelings. ChemJeff doesn’t care whether he’s right or wrong. He’s telling you about his feelings. Don’t you feel the same way?

          6. Everyone should take note of this, “Americans are not entitled to more fundamental liberty just because we were born in one geographic location”

            That says MILLIONS about the mindset of leftism. Perhaps the reason for lobbying for the destruction of the USA. The rioting against making America Great Again. It’s seems to be disturbing that “The land of the free” is the only land left “of the free” and in the name of world-gov dictatorship the USA shouldn’t be made great at all but should be destroyed and put into the ranks of all other communist countries.

            1. chemtard is fine with the fundamental liberty to eat his fat ass in to Type 2 diabetes and subsequent heart attack, however. That’s why he stays in America, because this is the easiest country for him to get a fucking large Mountain Dew and triple cheeseburger with xtra murnayse at 12 am.

            2. You are no more of a human being than the poorest peasant living in India. Sorry if that breaks your RAH RAH MURICA entitlement bubble, but there it is.

              1. Being born in America – I am entitled to the Individual Justice and Liberty guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution which is the Law this country was founded upon (the peoples law) over their Government. It doesn’t make me any more human; but it SHOULD make me more free and it’s destructive leftists that want to destroy that amazing gift and what for??? Just to sacrifice more men before their communist dictating Gov-Gods in order to re-enact the slavery system while promising *free* stolen goods to politically entitled mobs?

              2. Youre no more entitled to the second piece of cake than a starving African child, but you make that choice daily.

                You advocate for other people to be harmed to help other people while doing nothing yourself you piece of lard.

          7. Finally. Fuck. You admit it. You’re not a liberttarian, you’re a globalist. The most authoritarian assholes there are. Globalism requires rules and enforcement of one size fits all standards.

    2. I hated his corruption and constant lying.

      He tried to smear the Bidens by bribing Ukraine and slandering Hunter Biden with a lying smear campaign.

      That shit failed and the Con Man lost because he ran on lies/smears rather than his shabby record.

      1. Nobody cares about your feelings.

        1. The FBI will start caring in Jan 2021.

          1. Does anybody understand what this stupid shit is supposed to mean?

            1. Remember the good ol days when the Left and Libertarians weren’t jock sniffers for the FBI and CIA?

        2. So ‘Ken’ why couldn’t Trump run on his record instead of just slandering the Bidens?

          1. What makes you say it was slander?

            Hunter Biden has been selling influence on behalf of his father for more than a decade.

            “A son of Democratic vice presidential candidate Joe Biden was paid an undisclosed amount of money as a consultant by MBNA, the largest employer in Delaware, during the years the senator [Biden] supported legislation that was promoted by the credit card industry and opposed by consumer group.

            . . . .

            MBNA’s consulting payments to Hunter Biden, first reported by The New York Times, followed his departure in 2001 from the company, where he had been an executive . . . . At the time Hunter Biden was receiving consulting payments from MBNA, he also was a Washington lobbyist at a firm he had co-founded.

            When the Senate Judiciary Committee approved the bill early in 2005, Biden, Dianne Feinstein of California and Herb Kohl of Wisconsin were the only Democrats to vote with the Republican majority. Biden also voted for the bill on final passage in the Senate, while Obama voted against it.

            MBNA employees have poured more than $200,000 into Biden’s Senate campaigns over the past two decades, making donors working for the credit card company the senator’s largest source of campaign money.

            —-CBS News, August 25, 2008

            https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mbna-paid-bidens-son-as-biden-backed-bill/

            There isn’t anything slanderous about pointing out that Joe Biden and his son are crooks.

            1. Biden, Dianne Feinstein of California and Herb Kohl of Wisconsin were the only Democrats to vote with the Republican majority.

              so the “Republican majority” were bribed too?

              1. Sadly, this is, for you, borderline cogent.

              2. You asked why Trump called out Biden’s corruption.

                The answer is because Biden has a long history of corruption.

                1. The bankruptcy bill was a GOP bill only three Senate Dems voted for. The GOP was most corrupt by your standard.

                  1. I noticed your lack of proof that any Republican was bribed. Proof WAS provided that Biden was.

                    1. Liar. No proof that Joe Biden was bribed.

                      Hunter was a lobbyist. BFD.

                    2. Shrike doesn’t care whether what he’s saying is right or wrong.

                      He just cares that Biden isn’t called corrupt.

                      The willingness to deny reality in order to support the politicians he likes and denigrate those he doesn’t is why Shrike has been a laughing stock around here for 15 years (or however long he’s been here). You can’t behave that way and have credibility.

                  2. “Hunter was a lobbyist.”

                    Yeah, sitting on a board of a foreign business where his dad, as a sitting VP, withheld aid money until the investigator of that company was fired is just ‘being a lobbyist’:
                    “Joe Biden admits Burisma board position for son Hunter was ‘a bad image'”
                    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/joe-biden-agrees-burisma-board-position-for-hunter-biden-set-a-bad-image
                    Are you posting here to prove how stupid you are, you slimy pile of lefty shit?

                    1. What about Ivanka Trump and husband being major policy figures for the US government?

        3. Nobody cares about your feelings.

          Well, a short Ken comment that perfectly captures the Trumpian spirit. You know what people that say stuff like that are called? Assholes.

          1. Hahahahahahahahahaha

          2. One of the reasons this election helps restore my faith in humanity is that so many of my fellow Americans voted for Trump–despite their dislike of the man personally.

            There’s no reason to doubt that when the pollsters called to ask Americans how they felt about Donald Trump, they were telling the truth when they said they didn’t like him.

            But you know what they did? They went out and voted for him anyway because they weren’t emotional nincompoops. You know what you should call people respond to rational arguments by telling you about their feelings?

            The correct answer is “stupid”.

            1. Hey, Ken, what would you call people who fully acknowledge that Trump is a garbage human being, but nonetheless vote for him because Trump makes them feel good, swelling with patriotic pride? Would you call them “emotional nincompoops”?

              1. The President is there to do a job, not to be your daddy figure.

            2. You’re a sad loser Ken. Trump is the saddest loser of all. A one-term president. Jesus Christ do you have to fuck up to lose a second term.

              1. All presidents should be one term. We’d be a lot better off.

          3. Do you have a point there?

            So…what you’re saying is…we should run our foreign policy based on the fear of being called “assholes” by all the cool countries?
            /Cathy Newman

      2. “I hated his corruption and constant lying.”

        I did too, and then he was termed out and Trump was elected.

    3. You are right in one sense: there are some progressives out there that really do hate Trump voters. It is a bad look. I don’t approve of what they are doing, any more than I approve of Trump supporters accusing progressives of not being “real Americans”.

      But there are also a lot of people, not just progressives, who wonder how a political movement which purports to stand for things like the sanctity of life, or family values, can be so casually dismissive of the plight of immigrant families, or immigrant kids separated from their families. They say that they value the lives of the innocent unborn children. Okay, but what about the born ones, especially the ones in the cages? And along comes a guy like Trump, who brags about how tough he is going to be on immigrants, and his right-wing supporters just lap it up. What happened to Biblical ideals of charity and the brotherhood of mankind? Why is it that those who tend to thump on the Bible the hardest are also the ones most likely to sneer at those dirty immigrants polluting America? It is as if their outward displays of religiosity are rationalizations for what they truly desire, instead of having their viewpoint influenced by their Christian faith.

      1. I don’t speak for progressives but maybe some of us hate Trump voters because they corrupted the body politic and especially the GOP.

        For anyone who desires a small government Trump and his voters are the root of the problem.

        1. Tell me more about the GND loving Biden/Harris admin and their plans to reduce the size of government.

          1. Trump presided over the biggest deficits seen since ww2. The GOP spends like drunken sailors, and all on credit.

            Don’t worry, though. I’m sure they will rediscover their financial conservatism now that a Dem would get credit.

            1. That’d be great. Also, I hope McConnell takes a much deserved break of approving judges. A MUCH deserved break.

              Also might be time to not just rubber stamp Biden’s appointees for cabinet positions. Investigate the shit out of them.

              1. What cabinet position do you think he’ll appoint Hunter to?

            2. “Trump presided over the biggest deficits seen since ww2. The GOP spends like drunken sailors, and all on credit.”

              And if he’d given in to that bag of shit Pelosi one more time, she might have made it even bigger, you slimy pile of lefty shit.

            3. Right because the president has the power of the purse and has been asking for 3 trillion from nowhere for the past 6 months

        2. “I don’t speak for progressives but maybe some of us hate Trump voters because they corrupted the body politic and especially the GOP.”

          Maybe you could actually focus on what he did instead of telling lies.

        3. Shriek’s apparently longing for the return of the Patriot Act.

    4. Exactly. To the left anyone who thinks different including libertarians are deplorable.

  14. Probably some writers have a decent concept of the push-pull in the heart of the Trump voter.

    One of the problems is that they are not allowed to publish a decent analysis, because it might make Trump supporters look human, and that’s, you know, bothsidesism. Making Trump supporters look human is a big no-no, because if they’re human, it might be necessary to deal with the policy and ideas there. If they’re just dirt they can be written off. If they’re human, their ideas would need to be addressed and then some people would defect from the Ds or at least put distance.
    The “marketplace of ideas” has been closed in a wide variety of places.
    I’ve had competent, friendly, D or Green voting people tell me they didn’t understand how a human being could vote R. They don’t want to understand and they are vulnerable to propaganda themselves so they have trouble spotting it.
    I am curious to see how Persuasion and Substack and the more center-D new media start to fare.

    Youtube had ads for a few weeks before the election, saying, “the ballot is secret, but your friends and family can look up how you vote, so make sure you vote!” I don’t think that’s true, they can look up party registration but not content of a cast vote. But it played for weeks.

    1. QAnon-believing Bible-beaters might not be real humans. These types believe that a free media is “the enemy of the people”. They are as disoriented as Islamo-fascists are.

      1. Swallow a bullet, fucking moron.

        1. So you’re the type shitbag who agrees with Trump that a free media is the enemy of the people? Figures.

          1. Where do we have a free media?

            The NYT that fired an editor for publishing an op-ed piece that made the writers cry?
            The WSJ writers who tried to take over the op-ed page?
            CNN which has decided that credibility isn’t needed (and for their inbred audience — you know, like you — it is not)?

          2. “So you’re the type shitbag who agrees with Trump that a free media is the enemy of the people? Figures.”

            I’m the type of person who prefers to call you on your constant lies, like this, you stinking pile of lefty shit

            1. Yes, supporting a free media is “lefty”.

              We get it Sevo. You are a proud Pravda supporter who likes his journalism served by the proper authorities who follow Party directives.

              Now get down and bow to the authorities!

              1. “Yes, supporting a free media is “lefty”.”

                Claiming to do so might be, but doing so is certainly not, turd.
                Called on bullshit yet again.
                Fuck off and die.

          3. Which of the last three presidents spied on and detained members of the press? I’ll wait fo you to deflect you slimy piece of shit.

      2. Is this a slightly-more-subtle Liberaltarian troll account?

        Isn’t that more likely than someone actually believing the delusional, hate-filled, slayer-of-straw-men positions posted under the “Buttplug” branding?

  15. I understand voting for Trump based on policy.
    I understand voting for Trump based on wanting to “pwn the libs”, as juvenile as that is.
    I understand voting for Trump because you’re just habitually a Team Red voter.
    What I do not understand is the cult-like worship of the man. You know, the devotion to Trump that inspires stuff like this:

    https://cdn10.bigcommerce.com/s-dcvfa4/product_images/uploaded_images/legacy-small-3.jpg

    I mean, WTF? How can you regard Trump *that* highly?

    I heard a BBC radio interview the other day with a Trump voter who was at a Trump rally. At this rally, you could actually hear the crowd chant “WE LOVE YOU! WE LOVE YOU!” The person that was interviewed, who claimed he was an ex-Marine, even started to tear up a little bit at the prospect that Trump might lose. He was literally sobbing a little bit on the radio.

    What about Trump inspires THAT? I don’t get that at all.

    1. It’s not Trump. It’s some dude that decided to make partisanship his entire existence. That guy is not inspiring, he’s profoundly unbalanced.

    2. What inspired people to wail in the streets when Trump was elected? Entire halls of people crying when the realization she lost was finally made? The entire media throwing a 4 year long fit because he beat their candidate.

      Some people are sick. They put politics ahead of everything. It’s not a Trump thing.

      1. No, it’s not just that.
        Nobody made paintings like that about Mitt Romney or Joe Biden.
        What is it about specifically Trump that inspires that type of devotion?

        1. I watched the second presidential debate. Trump attempted to start in on Biden many times. That “blood in the water” instinct is, to some people, very admirable. Trump has unbelievable instincts. I want him to lose but he has that ESP for weaknesses and some people really, really admire it. I even kindof admire it, he’s not running on a rational analysis, it’s intuition for weakness and opportunity. People call it “success” and it’s not exactly that. Some call it charisma, some call it narcissism. That really can’t be taught and he has it the level of, say, a Pavarotti of malignant narcissism. He’s got more of it than David Lee Roth and that’s saying something.

        2. The same type of devotion that led to paintings of Obama.

          What’s your fucking point?

          That Trump acolytes exist? No fucking shit. Just don’t pretend it doesn’t happen with every pol, or else you look like a fucking idiot.

          1. That’s not appearance.

        3. In all fairness, Mitt Romney and Biden haven’t been president.

          But I think there are paintings like this for every president. It’s kind of a tradition/historical record in the mold of the Battle of Hastings Tapestry. Not the history that comes from some future dude studying us, but the kind of record that’s existed in art since the beginning of time.

        4. He wasn’t the cuckold house negro that sold out our country, cities, and their black people, to globalists and China. While simultaneously jacking up the cost of our Healthcare, the cost of our living, our taxes, and our utilities.

    3. You missed 2009-2016, eh?

    4. Chemjeff, it’s exactly that cult-like worship of Trump why he is so dangerous and why he needs to go. He can literally incite his followers into violence, and that is very dangerous. Thankfully, it looks like he lost the election and we can breathe a sigh of relief.

      1. Yeah, whew! All that violence from Trump supporters leading up to this election was really worrying. Surely we can put it behind us now.

      2. You zombie leftists have been rioting and assassinating people for 4 months straight.
        We haven’t hit back.
        Trump isn’t inspiring anyone to violence.
        Indeed, he’s a brake on it.
        Be careful what you ask for, eunuch.
        I frankly don’t give a shit about your life. It is of no value. I wouldn’t lift a finger to help you preserve it or remain free.
        Know that.
        If the right gets violent, it will be inspired by leftist garbage like you.

  16. Georgia might put the nail in Trumpism’s coffin.

    Trump leads by 58,000 with 200,000 Fulton/Dekalb votes left to count.

    Trumpism needs to die in 2020 along with Trump disease.

    1. Trumpism will die with Trump. Love or hate him you have to respect his charisma and energy. And the funny thing is and this showed itself every so often is that Trump is a Democrat at heart. The retards fell in love with a con man Democrat.

      1. And the Democrats refused to make a deal with the conman Democrat and just spent four years looking like whiny cunts that we should no longer stop cars for if they are crossing the street.

        I’m not advocating backing up and then hitting them AGAIN — but I’m not NOT advocating that.

      2. “…The retards fell in love with a con man Democrat…”

        And his pimp of a son.

        1. Trump has two sons.

      3. This is why I dislike the Trump so much. He did double duty by pulling the Republicans to the left with his big government policies and by pushing the left and the country as a whole to the far-left as an over-reaction against him.

        1. Nothing’s ever your fault, huh eunuch.

  17. How the Democrats could have done better: Just about anyone but Biden.

    To the Democrat he seems middle of the road, but to everyone else he’s old and tired.

    Tulsi Gabbard could have won. Pete Buttigeig could have won. Bernie or Warren could NOT have won, but the few who wanted to change the direction the party was headed could have won.

    And STILL the Democrats managed to eek out a win. Huh.

  18. Right-wing misfit Robby Soave, the clinger whisperer, offers The Ballad Of The Disaffected, Bigoted Hayseeds.

    What’s next — ‘How Democrats Should Learn To Speak To Red America?’

    Spoilers: Use one-syllable words.

    Drawl and twang a bit.

    Indicate that Jesus and QAnon, and not science or educated “elites,” are the source of all information.

    Whisper that policy proposals will disadvantage Black Americans and immigrants.

    Express outrage concerning the persecution of Christians, whites, and males.

    1. You’re still around schmuck? I thought one of the Volokh guys mind raped you.

      1. Did one of the Conspirators direct a vile racial slur at me? It wouldn’t surprise me, but if it occurred I missed it.

        1. Did one of the Conspirators direct a vile racial slur at me?

          Honkie is a slur?

          1. Isn’t it? Forgive me, I don’t speak jive.

            1. By what you post here, it’s pretty certain “stupid” is your native tongue.

              1. You should be focused on how long it will take America’s betters to bankrupt and imprison the Trump family.

    2. the clinger whisperer

      Tonight on CBS

      I would watch that, with Robby starring as the sultry medium who translates mysterious messages from the otherworldly hillbilly red-staters to the coastal elites

    3. OK, “clinger whisperer” is pretty funny.

    4. B+

      Much better work. Someday you’ll be as good a troll as OBL or Trump.

  19. It’s starting to look like the Democrats are just a front for the media empire, which is clearly in bed with China. No doubt they will be happy to return the favor via creation of the Ministry of Truth.

  20. Good for Robby to at least try and understand what’s going on.

  21. Courtney Bryant
    @CourtneyDBryant
    ·
    23m
    BREAKING: Trump campaign files lawsuit in Georgia, seeking to pause the vote count in key battleground state, AP reports.

    HaHAHaHa! The Con Man just filed suit to stop counting votes in Georgia! He thinks he will lost Georgia if all the votes are counted.

    What a scumbag.

    1. God this feels so fucking good.

      1. You like losing and it makes you feel good?

        Oh yeah you’re a shitstained democrat. Losing is part of your nature.

        1. Clingers have been getting stomped by their betters in the culture war for so long as anyone reading this has been alive. Their communities are shitstains, their institutions are fourth-tier amateur hours, their superstition is being rejected. You’d think they’d be accustomed to losing by now.

          1. “Being rejected” = retaining the senate and gaining in the house?

            GTFO.

            1. Fuck off and die; your shtick was tired years ago and you lost again, bigoted asshole.

              1. Aimed one above you, MW.

            2. “Being rejected” = retaining the senate and gaining in the house?”

              And it’s pretty sure the POTUS is as yet undecided.

              1. If Georgia features two run-offs, perhaps Democrats could get to 50 in the Senate. Most of the outstanding votes in Georgia were cast in or near Atlanta, not in the sticks.

                With the White House and the House of Representatives, 50 would be plenty.

                Carry on, clingers.

                1. I know you’re a parody, but I’ve gotta figure that a new statewide election in Georgia will favor Rs. Without the presidency (and not just that but anti-Trump sentiment) to drive D turnout, and Rs knowing how critical it is to have these seats (now that this election’s results are known), you’ve got to figure that a traditionally red state will come through.

  22. Most of the media abandoned any effort to figure out trump voters before they ever started, especially at places like Atlantic and NYT.

    Before the inauguration, the leftist media had simply decided that more or less all trump voters were simply racists/bigots and left it at that (possibly because those voters generally populated “flyover” states, which coastal reporters seem to think more or less uniformly resemble the setting of Deliverance, with a similar population). To paraphrase stoic philosophy, nobody can ever learn the thing they believe they already know.

    1. Nick Kristof tries (NYT columnist). It’s one reason I read what he writes. Sometimes he goes all-Blue Urban, but then a few weeks later it’s like he hit his head and he produces something that shows he sometimes pays attention. “Tightrope” is about the slow demise of a white, working-class family he grew up with, and by extension the challenges facing the country. It isn’t a perfect book but it’s pretty good.

      1. WaPo actually sent some reporters out to talk to trump supporters (especially evangelicals) as well. Their reporting on that didn’t seem to pick up a lot of traction when it was published, possibly because it didn’t fit the narriative that their readers wanted to (or had been conditioned to) believe about everyone who disagreed with themselves basically being on par with the KKK.

        A lot of the foundation for what’s happened in the last 4 years might have been laid in the previous 8 years when the Dems decided to call any and all dissent from the Obama agenda “racist”. I always saw an irony in that tack because it seems like believing it requires a reductionist view in which Obama himself isn’t really more than just “Black” since it’s predicated on the idea that the man’s race is the only motivation for anyone to disagree with his ideas; the idea that all Obama critics must be racist is itself a far more racist construct than the reasoning of even the birthers. Not entirely surprising considering how little difference there is between the rantings of Richard Spencer and the “Critical Race Theory” espoused by the woke left.

        1. There were plenty of Obama critics from the left who nobody called racist.

          Maybe racists don’t like being called racist, but that doesn’t mean they are in favor of treating everyone equally.

          1. The critics on the left started to emerge a bit around mid 2015 after the MSM had gotten a little bit less aggressive about running cover for the administration (which started to phase in shortly after the 2014 mid-terms). They’ve grown a little more emboldened in the time since Obama left office as well.

            For the first 6+ years of Obama’s time in office, nobody in the Press corps except for maybe FNC and Daily Caller were asking anything resembling hard questions. During those years, any and all dissent from the Dem/Obama agenda was “racist” or “bigoted” by default, at least in the thoughts and words of every Dem/leftist I know (and a few who believe themselves to be moderates/centrists); that even extended to any opposition to the “individual mandate” in the ACA (which had actually been Obama’s stated position 12 months prior to the legislation).

  23. a crass reality TV star had managed to defeat Hillary Clinton

    When your sole qualification to run for POTUS is that you’re a “crass reality TV star” then you are doomed to failure.

    We could have had Flava Flav instead of The Donald!

    1. I would have taken Rick Astley.
      After all, he wouldn’t have given me up, let me down, deserted me, made me cry, or say goodbye.

    2. “When your sole qualification to run for POTUS is that you’re a “crass reality TV star” then you are doomed to failure.”

      When you post constant lies, turd, you get called on them constantly.
      Fuck off and die a slow, painful death; make your dog happy.

      1. I quoted the Reason article, dumbfuck.

        1. “I quoted the Reason article, dumbfuck.”

          We know you did, turd. A slimy piece of shit like you is probably not aware that selecting and repeating that quote may suggest you support the lie.
          But then, expecting anything beyond a 6th-grade intellect from a coke-addled kiddie-diddler is unrealistic, right, turd?

  24. Tell me Soave, when you castigate media folks for getting it wrong, sure is interesting you neglect to include Reason’s own idiot prognosticator Stossel. He too got it completely wrong last time predicting a Clinton win.

    This time? Here they were last night:

    “President Donald Trump is now favored to win the election based on an average of betting websites, an expert told Fox News Tuesday.
    Within the past few hours, the website, electionbettingodds.com, created by Maxim Lott and John Stossel, recently flipped its averaged betting odds in favor of Trump.”

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/betting-odds-have-flipped-to-favor-trump-expert-says

    But you’re right…don’t put anymore trust in anything Stossel has to say.

    1. Hey, jackass! Does picking cherries pay a living wage’?
      When are you going to tell us about how the magic words will make the nasty CA wildfires go away?

      1. Goddammit, Sevo. Who took your collar off tonight? Tell them your loose again.

        1. So buttplug inadvertently reveals he keeps children on collars.

        2. Hey,turd! Don’t you have a kiddie to diddle?
          Fuck off and die. And take jackass with his watermelon religion with you.

      2. Nailed it. The betting markets flipped for like an hour.

        And in a giant case of RTFA (which this moron never does):

        ‘He hasn’t won yet, but it’s looking like he might,’ Maxim Lott said

        Lott said betting odds on his site this morning, which are averaged from other gambling websites, had Trump as just a 38% favorite to win the election.

        Still, Lott said the betting odds could flip back to Biden. He described the former vice president’s chances as flipping a coin two times and getting heads both times.

  25. RCP averages the day before the election, and actual results:

    WI: Biden +6.6 (Biden +0.6)
    MI: Biden +5.1 (Biden +2.2)
    MN: Biden +4.4 (Biden +7.2)
    NV: Biden +3.6 (Biden +0.6)
    PA: Biden +2.9 (Trump +3.2)
    FL: Biden +1.0 (Trump +3.4)
    GA: Trump +0.2 (Trump +1.0)
    NC: Trump +0.6 (Trump +1.4)
    OH: Trump +1.2 (Trump +8.1)
    TX: Trump +1.2 (Trump +5.9)
    IA: Trump +1.4 (Trump +8.2)

    Notice the errors are all in the same direction.

    1. They’re not errors.

      Polling is not about gauging the electorate. They’re about driving the electorate to a particular conclusion.

      1. I mean literally ZERO polls had Collins winning in ME.

        Yet she won EASILY.

        The polls had Harrison tight or slightly ahead of Graham.

        He lost badly.

        Polls aren’t news. Polls are an attempt to generate news.

      2. A certain amount of Trump voters are embarrassed to tell others.

        Simple as that.

        Their shame is understandable.

        1. Shriek, on the other hand, feels no shame in diddling himself to kiddie porn.

          1. Explains his fondness for Biden.

        2. “Their shame is understandable.”

          Bullshit.
          The thuggery of the left is the cause, you pathetic piece of lefty shit.

    2. Did you type MN values wrong? That one doesn’t go the same direction.

    3. Your chart relies on incomplete, misleading information.

      Georgia, for example, has become a toss-up. Biden is positioned to win Pennsylvania by three or four points.

      That chart is as dumb as the average clinger.

      1. Maybe you can make the world a better place: Fuck off and die.

  26. Tom Bonier
    @tbonier
    Another 1,800 or so votes counted in GA, of which Biden wins 71%. He’s tracking just above where needs to be in the remaining votes to win narrowly.
    9:28 PM · Nov 4, 2020

    That is some dope-ass shit Peanuts.

    Biden winning Georgia? I can’t believe it. Coin toss now.

    1. You are some pathetic piece of shit, hoping to be validated by some few votes in GA.
      You lost, turd. Fuck off and die.

      1. Why do you hate a free media/press, Sevo?

        Please tell.

        1. Sevo is a very angry old man, bitter at the world. Raging on here is one of the few joys he has left.

          1. CMW is a stinking pile of lefty shit, hoping that his/her fantasies regarding Sevo might have some relevance.
            The pile of lefty shit posting as Chipper Morning Wood is nothing other than a stinking pile of lefty shit.
            Is that clear, stinking pile of lefty shit?

            1. Sputtering, disaffected, inconsequential bigots may be my favorite culture war casualties. Stomping their preferences and aspirations into irrelevance is not just important — it’s also great fun!

              Maybe just let it out with a good cry, you whimpering loser.

              1. Maybe you can make the world a better place: Fuck off and die.

        2. Please tell why you post such bullshit, turd

  27. NICE JOB FOR EVERY ONE CHEK DETAIL OPEN THIS LINK……… CLICK HERE FOR FULL DETAIL

    1. Do you know Sevo? He posts shit too.

      1. yeah but he shits in your mouth. you like it.

      2. I know turd, the kiddie-diddler.

  28. Fuck who dug up ChemJeff and DoL and SPB? Not sure which is stupider, their gloating over a very narrow victory, sounding almost as programmed as Kirkland in their similar talking points, or the conservatives saying it is all over if Trump loses? Okay, SPB, Jeffy and DoL are more annoying, mainly because it is so unoriginal.

    1. But just barely.

    2. So we’re pretending the lockdowns never happened?
      “It totes can’t happen here, guys”
      Faith alone.

    3. ” gloating over a very narrow victory ”

      If Pennsylvania and Georgia join Wisconsin, Arizona, Nevada, and Michigan in the blue column, the Electoral College delegate count for Biden-Harris will be 306.

      Trump received 304 Electoral Votes during the Great Hayseed Spasm of 2016.

      Biden may win the popular vote by six million or more — concentrated in the educated, accomplished, modern, decent communities of America.

      I am content.

      1. You’re also full of shit.

  29. Next stage of the Color Revolution playbook kicked in today, apparently– mass coordinated “count every vote” rallies in deep blue cities, all reciting the same NPC lines.

    1. Covid stops for really important rallies.

      1. Especially when they can count more votes than there are registered voters.

        1. You just don’t understand same-day registration and 85-90% election turnout, bro.

          This election is being stolen.

          1. Stop whining, clinger.

            Or continue . . . your delusional whimpering is entertaining.

            1. Your whining is tiresome, lefty shit.

  30. Um… I’m not sure how many times Trump Supporters should have to repeat themselves. We believe in the U.S. Constitution that this nation is a Constitutional Union of Republic States created by founding fathers that create that Law OVER their government in hopes to promote individual freedom and justice.

    Now; Look at the deeds of Trump. The de-regulator, the Anti-Socialist, the “Make America Great Again” (again – as to it was once before) then look at the opposing side compulsively lobbying for more federal intervention where it doesn’t belong, more UN-Constitutional babysitting, more “commie-money”, MORE GOV.

    There was never a “figuring” them out – it was always blatant ignorance of this very nation in a quest to destroy it.

    1. When exactly was America great, and when did it stop being great? Let’s have some actual dates.

      1. The the very beginning of 1787 till 1913 when Democrats wrote the Federal Reserve Act (and fake-fiat money), openly violated the Constitution with FDR and launched the Great Depression and continued to destroy the USA that once was; incrementally through time.

        1. You mean when women didn’t have the right to vote, marital rape was legal, blacks were disenfranchised with few civil rights in the South, and gays had no legal protection? It sounds like things were great for straight white males, but you’ll hopefully appreciate that others didn’t find things so great back then.

          1. You really do not have the capacity for independent thought, just programmed grievance to satisfy your existential resentment.

            1. You should write a strongly worded letter to President-elect Biden.

              Or, if you prefer, a letter to President-eject Trump.

              Either way, modern America doesn’t give a shit what you think or want.

              1. Fuck off and die, asshole bigot. Make your dog and goldfish happy.

          2. States blocked the women vote, rape was never legal by federal law, the Constitution and it’s purpose IS WHAT ended slavery, and any believed gay prosecution was from State’s.

            Your entire “belief” is full of faults.

            Ironically even if there was any substance to be found there; you’d be voting Republican since the Democrats filibustered the passing of just about every thing on your list (short of ‘gay’ entitlements at the freedom COST to others; still not seeing the gay legislation that locked all gay people up in prison).

            But you know all that already don’t you; the lefty fly-flag is but a complete deceitful lie used to ‘entitle’ particular races and sexes at the COST of all others. You know it’s racist, you know it’s sexist, you know it’s enabling the re-enactment of slavery and dictatorship by manipulation – but as long as you’re in the ‘entitlement’ camp that’s all that matters…..

            Tell me where I’m wrong; I dare you.

          3. So you’re a Republican? Definitely can’t be a Democrat with this list of issues and the Democrat Party history.

    2. What I wanna know is this…how are you smug left leaning and brainwashed Trump haters gonna feel, when these re-counts and vote audits prove that Bidens legit vote is around 18% and it’s been filled with industrial scale vote fraud? How you gonna react when it’s proven to you that you are nowhere near a majority. You actually represent a minority and via Democrat voter fraud and media brainwashing they’ve conned everyone into thinking you’re a majority…How you gonna feel about being conned? How you gonna feel knowing you’re under 20% and Trump’s supporters are around 3 times as many? This is not an academic exercise. I advise you to prepare yourself because this is the most likely outcome of the audits and re-counts.

  31. Nationalists like Trump want to put Americans on a pedestal and claim that we are special and unique and deserve better treatment than the rest of the world because we were ordained by God or something to be entitled to it. N

    Nationalists believe our government should look out for Americans because that’s their job. If people want to help those in the Sudan go there and do it yourself. The belief America is responsible for people in other countries is how we end up in wars around the world.

    But note how Jeff must absurdly misstate what people believe to justify himself. If he had a better argument for his position he wouldn’t have to do that.

  32. If Biden pulls this off, the Republican Party will need to do some real soul searching on how to rebuild their integrity and fiscal responsibility. The Trumpican Party will need to register as a third party!

    1. It will be interesting to see what happens to a post-Trump GOP. Will they repudiate Trump and try to be more inclusive and pluralistic, while promoting a small government and personal responsibility message? Or will they try to recreate Trump’s success with a bunch of nativist white grievance assholes? I am hoping for the former, but most likely we will get the latter.

      1. Like I keep saying, anyone who thinks the GOP is going back to the neocon days is fucking delusional. It won’t matter how bad Biden or yasss kweeen Kamala is if they try to nominate another McCain or Romney.

        The anger at the TARP bailout and the Tea Party legislators getting elected foretold all of this happening. They aren’t going back to the old ways when they’ve had more wins going the populist route than the globalist one since 2006, especially when the outcome of the current election is still up in the air and the pollsters’ predictions were off by several percentage points in Trump’s favor.

        The only thing keeping the Democrats truly competitive in national elections is the fact that California has so many fucking people that it can cover the spread and them some all by itself. Without that state, this would be a majority Republican country, and it wouldn’t even be close.

        1. That fact is a big reason that, if Trump actually manages to pull this off after the recounts are done, I honestly hope we get some serious secession talk going on here. This country desperately needs a divorce from each other.

          1. How about we secede all the illegal’s back to their home-country? That would be a good start.

          2. So you’re upset that things appear not to be going your way? I think I’ve heard that somewhere once before.

            1. The fuck you going on about? Your side lost to a goddamn reality TV star four years ago, and it’s still not decided yet this year. You don’t have anything to fucking strut about, you shrimp-dicked taint sniffer.

              1. My side? And which side might that be you fucking snowflake? Go to bed already, remember you have to be up early to continue your civil war plans, you perfect pathetic fuck.

                1. You fucking posted that hilarity an hour later and you’re telling me to go to bed? Self-awareness isn’t your strong suit, is it?

                  Just remember this, you useless paramecium–no matter how THIS particular election turns out, your side will forever be known in US history as the one who lost to a real estate carnival barker that had two divorces and several bankruptcies to his name.

                  All your Sooper Smaht allies got punked by a celebrity and the white working-class to such an extent that you had to turn social media and the mainstream news into a giant censor-fest, while portraying an Orwellian counter-message funded by globalist NWO billionaires, because it couldn’t handle populism in the marketplace of ideas. It couldn’t engage, it could only silence.

                  If you were any more pathetic, you’d fuck up your own suicide attempt.

            2. And change your fucking screen name to Iamnotperfect. Who’s this “we”? Speak for yourself, pinky.

          3. No, this is wrong = This country desperately needs a divorce from each other.

            1. Even if it were right, how do you plan on making it happen? It appears to me that force would be required—the Left sure as hell aren’t going to let their tax cattle leave voluntarily—and if force is a viable option, might it be better used to halt the theft of this election?

              But your basic point is sound, Red: this country is fundamentally split on very many important issues, culture being a giant one. I’m not sure we can or should stay together when our views are so opposed.

              1. My caveat is that the blue states will start seriously talking about secession if Trump wins, not that red states will try it if Biden wins. And if they do, we should let them go, especially because there’s going to be infighting from their own rural and working class residents to stay in the union. Those areas would break off like West Virginia did.

                1. We will be fighting the Chinese on nominally American soil in 10 years if that happens.

                  My preference is to let the courts handle the outrageous departures from public political conduct. Try people for conspiracy to foment riots, for dereliction of duty in an attempt to unseat the sitting President, for wiretapping the President and his campaign. For massive undeclared campaign contributions by Big Tech. For taking bribes while a US Vice President or Senator (right, Romney?).

                  There are plenty of laws which have already been broken. Try people for those before we start painting a line down the middle of states.

                  1. We will be fighting the Chinese on nominally American soil in 10 years if that happens.

                    Yeah, that’s likely. But I don’t see any long-term alternative. The courts are essentially compromised now because the partisanship there has finally settled in as well.

                    I think the break is already baked into the cake, the question is when it finally becomes reality.

            2. Isn’t that what all the street rioting and looting is all about? Getting the divorce process started?

              In the 1950s and 1960s, when I was but a child, my family, along with hundreds of thousands of others left the big city for the suburbs. It was labeled “white flight” back then. People wanted away from crowding, crime and a lower quality of life and found it away from the urban cities.

              Although the media and the new urbanists have liked to boast that the trend had been reversing over the last few years and that people were moving back to the cities, that’s pretty much dead right now. And reversing.

              The next decade will be another urban exodus. It just won’t be as “white’ as last time. It started a few years ago with Section 8ers fleeing to the burbs to get away from the urban issues. The looting and riots have only bolstered people’s resolve to get the hell way from this third world madness.

    2. “If Biden pulls this off, the Republican Party will need to do some real soul searching on how to rebuild their integrity and fiscal responsibility.”

      Stinking pile of lefty shit ‘advises’ the GOP; what a laugh.

    3. Biden pulls what off? The biggest industrial scale voter fraud in US election history? Come on man, he barely left his basement, you are delusional if you believe his vote is anywhere near legit.

  33. It’s not Trump, it’s Biden/Harris.

    Just like it was Clinton.

    And the media. And leftist goals. And shitbags that put “Spike” on presidential ballots.

    Trump isn’t conservative. Or religious. Or pro gun. Or a fan of the Bill of Rights. Didn’t build a wall. But he’s also not leftist scum.

  34. It’s not Trump, it’s Biden/Harris.
    Just like it was Clinton.
    Lolz…Sounds Impressive.https://www.igmguru.com/blog/top-10-trending-technologies/

  35. Every big city is for Biden and every rural area is for Tramp

    1. … and what’s wildly ironic is that if City people would LEAVE the rural area ALONE and govern their own (as it’s SUPPOSE TO BE) by the U.S. Constitution at the City, County or State level; We wouldn’t have such a divided nation.

      Taking over ALL area’s is the underlying reason Democrats push the federal government into every issue. What other reason could they possibly pretend? That the sky is falling down???? Oh, yeah; they DO already use that pathetic excuse now don’t they?

  36. i was really depressed about this election. was the last four years were not enough to understand the true intentions of trump

    https://dealmarkaz.pk/items/category-mobile-phones/p-iphone-11-pro-max

  37. The Democrat’s tactic of calling anyone who didn’t agree with them 100% a racist, fascist, idiot apparently didn’t convince Independents to support their candidates.

    1. and i still see them doing it today.. “it shouldn’t be this close! how can there be so many racists out there!?”

      maybe one day they’ll learn the problem is their message, and not the people who don’t want to vote for it, but i won’t hold my breath.

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  39. So, the really shocking truth is this…the voter fraud has most likely happened in Red counties. Yup you got it, Biden has massively over performed in red counties and this is where he is picking up the votes from. This is a Uniparty coup attempt. Boy oh boy is the faecal-matter about to hit the fast spinning blades!

    1. Um; would it make any sense to “fraud” a vote in a location already in the lefts favor?

      1. You’re arguing with a newbie who has the stench of fullblown Qtard. As in QAnon.

        I’m waiting for it to let fly with the, “20,000 SeaLeD iNDiCtMENts!” spew.

        1. Hey blowhard cliche machine…are you human or badly programmed bot?

  40. At least when it is presented publicly this level of fraud will make no sense immediately. In some states, counties have Biden way over performing what Clinton did in 2016. People are not gonna believe that Biden is so so popular with Republican voters. Easier to swallow the uniparty corruption in some ways

  41. Trump’s trolling is second to none. It wouldn’t surprise me if he changed his party registration and ran against Biden in the next Democratic primary.

    -jcr

  42. Seriously, with over 160 million voting–and many of those either dumb as hammers or batshit crazy–it isn’t easy to predict an election outcome when you factor in the goofy Electoral College. Calling the popular vote isn’t terribly hard. I don’t think anyone is shocked that Biden is about 3 million votes ahead of Trump. The increase in turnout wasn’t hard to predict either, given the campaign and the increased ability to vote without standing in line. Finally, let’s not forget Reason’s “Libertarian moment.” “Independent” doesn’t mean prescient.

  43. “…Calling the popular vote isn’t terribly hard…”
    But it is irrelevant, isn’t it?

    1. The Electoral College would be fine with “them” if it worked in their favor; but as it doesn’t it has to be “let’s just go with popular vote” and allow metropolitan areas like NY Chicago and LA carry the day.

      1. There are millions of Republicans in California who are equally disenfranchised by the EC. Nobody thinks you have a principled support of the EC. The day it turns against Republicans is the day you see it for the nonsense it is.

        Why can’t you people just be honest one day out of your goddamn life. It’s the lying that bothers me.

        1. There’s no shortage of intellectual dishonest on either side of the partisan duopoly. Objectively, small/low populations states already receive disproportionate representation in the Senate. The EC is just piling on.

          1. Objectively, small/low populations states already receive disproportionate representation in the Senate.

            Objectively, they don’t. You’re just salty that you aren’t allowed to steamroll your agenda at will.

    2. No, but thanks for asking.

  44. “…the “shy,” reluctant, or otherwise undercounted Trump voter—namely, that he does not exist”

    And still doesn’t; if anything they are just a vestigial remnant of a deplorable population a racist and misogynistic rubes who are to be rendered null by a progressive wave of multi racial wokes.

    Just ask the Rev; he’ll tell you how it works. For the media, it is very much like a religion, and Trump has become the standard bearer for all that is wrong in the world. Just elect a “good” Democrat and they will resume heaping praise aplenty and granting a pass on any number of drones dropped or children put in cages.

    1. they are just a vestigial remnant of a deplorable population a racist and misogynistic rubes who are to be rendered null by a progressive wave of multi racial wokes.

      Care to square that with Trump getting a higher percentage of ALL minority demographics than he did in 2016 and higher than any Republican since 1956?

      In fact, the only demographic where Trump did worse was among *white men*. So please do go on…

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  46. Reason is also misinterpreting Trump voters. They represent a turn toward big government protectionism. Trump favors picking winners and losers in the economy and using subsidies, tax breaks, tariffs and good old government contracts to guide private industry. He also doesn’t mind running up a debt. And keep in mind that preserving pre-existing coverage is the norm now. How do you do that without subsidizing people with pre-existing conditions – aka, a form of Socialism. The neo-liberal, free-market philosophy has dies off, even among the white, uneducated. How soon until we get a movement toward socialism and nationalism combined?

    1. “…And keep in mind that preserving pre-existing coverage is the norm now…”

      And Trump is to blame, TDS victim?

  47. the reality that seems to escape everyone is that most of Trump’s support comes from the same place as Biden’s…… hate. if Biden wins, if anyone thinks it is because people want the agenda of the radical left to be implemented, they have not been paying attention. most of the support for Biden is actually more accurately described as opposition to Trump. likewise, most support for Trump is not an endorsement of him and his failures, it is a steadfast opposition to a democratic party that has lurched increasingly leftward.

    the answer to countering the trump support, and crushing the negative elements that flourish within it…. is for the left to look within and understand what it is about their platform that so strongly drives people away.

    1. “A negative times a negative is a positive!” – Jaime Escalante

  48. The Media Had 4 Years to Figure Out Trump Voters. They Blew It.

    The funniest part about it is that Trump voters (or independents who voted for someone like Trump) main motivations were really obtuse and niche things that they didn’t really talk about. They chose a 12D chess master as their leader and, as yet, the media is still playing catch up trying to figure out their moves. /sarc

    Trump Voters: “Democrats are socialist so vile that even New Yorkers are looking around and wondering WTF is going on. HRC is rotten AF and whomever was in charge of Hunter Biden’s upbringing should *not* be in charge of anyone else’s lives.”
    Media: “Whaddyamean?”

    1. You can understand the confusion if Trump supporters claim to care about corruption and bad parenting.

  49. Democrats should work to understand them better, but not to emulate them, because anyone who could vote for Trump is a moron, or seriously propagandized into believing Democrats are so evil that they have no choice but to reluctantly support an incompetent disaster. Either way they are not doing their utmost to contribute to this society.

    If you don’t believe climate change is real, you don’t deserve a seat at the policy table. That’s one of the risks of democracy. The electorate needs to be educated or we’re doomed to fascism or environmental collapse or some other ongoing threat that dumb people ignore.

    I can’t get to sympathizing with people who thought a sleazy reality TV personality was suited for the presidency. If there are enough of them to make him win, that’s too bad for all of us. But they don’t seem interested in being educated, so they must be defeated.

    1. Democrats should work to understand them better, but not to emulate them, because anyone who could vote for Trump is a moron, or seriously propagandized into believing Democrats are so evil that they have no choice but to reluctantly support an incompetent disaster. Either way they are not doing their utmost to contribute to this society.

      And Tony comes to perfectly illustrate the problem.

      1. I’m about half sick of people telling me I just don’t understand Trumper feelings, gosh mom!

        Seems like they are all feelings and very little thought. They hate communism. Okay. Nobody is talking about communism but them.

        They just want to see the libs cry. Well, congratulations, I’m sure a lot of the people who are crying because they loved ones are dead are indeed libs. Not the most efficient way to get your enemies to cry, but then making people cry is not the primary goal of the United States federal government. Or it shouldn’t be.

        Explain what policies you want because it seems like all you want to do is throw shit and jack off like a monkey in a cage.

        1. Well, I’m not a Trump voter, but I’m pretty sure you still don’t understand them or what motivates them. Maybe if I have some time later I’ll try to put what I think it is into words. It’s not just a matter of them being morons or suckers or propaganda victims.

          1. Either they like what he does, or at the very least are okay with it. That’s the reason they are dishonest with pollsters. No one *wants* to admit they actually like the idea of putting children in cages. Soo they tell the pollsters, No”.

            The fact that the polls were so far off says a whole lot more about Americans than it does and polling group.

            1. I’m not convinced that the reason polls got things so wrong is people being dishonest. It’s certainly possible, but there are probably bigger reasons they failed so badly.
              I think that most of the appeal of Trump is the economy and patriotism. Trump is a big, unpleasant weirdo, but he does seem to love the country in his way. And his supporters seemed to be having a lot more fun than the Democrats this year. People don’t want to hear about what a horrible and racist country we are. They want it to be OK to be happy and proud to be American.
              That’s what it looks like to me. Part of it, anyway. I think there are lots of other reasons besides being stupid or evil too.

              1. That was a big part of Reagan’s appeal at the time. After years of self flagellation and negative naval gazing, he offered a positive assessment; a shining beacon on a hill.

                I can freely admit that I was skeptical at the time. But looking back, I realize how negative Americans had become about the country and why it took that kind of leadership to pull us out of it.

                Right now, we’re back to that “nothing is any good” kind of thinking on a broad basis.

            2. And immigration and actually trying to keep campaign promises. I disagree fairly strongly with Trump on some immigration issues, but it is something a lot of people care about and he at least did all he could to deliver on his promises.

            3. You mean the cages that were built under Obama and phased out under Trump?

        2. Hey 8 year old Tony, let me impart some adult truths. There is no fucking pathway for Biden to become President after putting on this shitshow of industrial scale voter fraud. The 68 million who voted Trump already know the contempt that the left treat them with. Get this…they would die than live under a Biden regime. Are you willing to make that sacrifice? That, 8 year old Tony, is a hard reality you need to face. Trump voters will not accept Biden. It was a grossly fraudulent attempt to steal the election. So you lose. What are you gonna do about it? Get antifa out? Bring it on!

          1. Although I abhor violence generally, it is appropriate when used to protect oneself or others from a violent action. It really bothered me that a few antifa “protestors” when they were attempting arson or, when they were beating up some poor schmuck, weren’t shot by the police. It would have put an end to their cowardly, fascist actions.

    2. The fundamental problem is that education in America is indoctrination. Critical thinking isn’t taught at any level. And I suspect that’s for the reason that powerful institutions don’t want critical thinkers, they want believers who dutifully fill the collection plate. America… a circus tent full of rubes.

    3. Oh listen to 8 year old Tony here passing on all the wisdom he’s gained from a year of grade school. Tony wouldn’t know his ass from his elbow, even if you labelled them both. Tony if you’re going to argue with the adults can stop communicating in cliches and worn out tropes? People tire of them quickly.

  50. I sense a bit of cognitive dissonance among some maga-snowflakes.

  51. The overlooked reality is simply that Americans know how awful Trump is and they are ashamed to admit they like it. It’s a lot like asking a group of 15 year old boys if they plan to masturbate within the next day. Both groups are going to tell you “no”. It’s that simple.

    1. you will learn to your fucking horror that voter fraud and media brainwashing have led you to believe you represent a majority, when the truth is you are about 18% tops. I’d like to see your smug faces when this undeniable fact is unveiled. Media lies and fake ballots and they conned you. You will be in shock, but do you know what else? You will have shown how easily manipulated you are and how ready you are to sell out the nation to frauds. The other 80% are barely containing their rage at this point.

  52. Trump is a mysogenistic immature thin skinned moron. He is a bad businessman, a bad husband, a bad person. The fact that he is arguably a better choice then the shit show the DNC presents, is really an indictment of our crappy duopoly.

  53. “As independent thinkers exit the mainstream media, groupthink and blind spots among the legacy press are likely to get worse.”
    It’s the delusions of godhood of the godless. Dems/media hopelessly project their deranged depravity on those they falsely accuse of it, being utterly blind to it.

  54. “The result would be a travesty.” (for MSM)
    MSM has been propaganda all my life, and I’m 78. I am informed by the ‘net, alternative media whom I donate to. I couldn’t lament the demise of MSM anymore that Pravda. My mentor (he was 74) told me when I was 16 that the newspapers were almost all garbage, especially Hearst publishers. He discovered It in the early 1900s. He also saw federal troops attacking income tax protesters in 1913 in the major cities. Papers covered it up.

  55. The media and elites completely ignored the issues that Trump brought up in 2016
    1) US Immigration and trade policies should favor US workers
    2) US shouldn’t put climate change ahead of US interests
    3) US shouldn’t be the world’s policeman

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  57. You can’t talk about the Trump phenomenon as only some kind of reaction to the liberal mainstream media. That is, at best, half of the story. You also have to talk about the symbiotic relationship he has with the right-wing media, especially Fox News. You have three opinion hosts on the ‘most watched’ cable news network lining up to support Trump with his baseless claims of the election being ‘stolen’ from him from 8-11pm each night this week.

    This leads to the absurdity of groups of Trump supporters in Detroit chanting to Stop the Count! outside of election offices at the same time there were MAGA-faithful chanting to “count the vote” in Arizona.

    When writers and pundits on the right start a self-examination of their own, then we can join with a critical view of the “MSM” and have a real conversation of the problems with the modern media in its coverage of politics.

    1. why are you people too stupid to see that the Democrats have devolved into a elite mafia racket? Biden and the rest of them will sell off freedoms to Chinese from day 1. Why can’t you see this? Are you fucking brainwashed beyond all hope? These people will categorically sell the US and your future off to the highest bidder by mid 2021. Wake up…

      1. And why would they do that?

        I know why Trump would. He’s a sociopathic narcissist hundreds of millions of dollars in debt.

        But why would a lifelong US public servant wait until the moment he’s sworn in to the presidency to “sell the US”? Do you even know, or are the light and sound patterns emanating from Hannity’s glow enough for you to form complex judgments?

        1. You fucking idiot he has spent 47 years selling out the US. How the fuck did his son get $1.2 billion in funds from China a week after they both visited with Joe as VP? Fuck me these leftists are in a Trump hating trance…wake up you fucking NPC.

        2. Tony the 8 year old moron, may awaken from his trance in coming weeks when this happens;
          you will learn to your fucking horror that voter fraud and media brainwashing have led you to believe you represent a majority, when the truth is you are about 18% tops. I’d like to see your smug faces when this undeniable fact is unveiled. Media lies and fake ballots and they conned you. You will be in shock, but do you know what else? You will have shown how easily manipulated you are and how ready you are to sell out the nation to frauds. The other 80% are barely containing their rage at this point.

  58. they blew it. yes they totally tootally blew it. but the hard fact is that people are still giving trump votes

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  60. Great to see demented and brainwashed leftists rejoicing over industrial scale fraud and the subsequent destruction of trust for any elections moving forward. Since the Euro-globalists and Chinazi’s are also rejoicing at the sight of the USA tearing itself apart, you have to wonder how monumentally stupid they are. I mean have they not figured out yet that they’ll be tossed aside like an empty softdrink can once these mofo’s have taken over again. Bcos this time they’ll strip the US bare in record time, no more chances on non approved leaders getting elected. Forget any future plans, you’ll have delivered us all into a slave surveillance state based on the global elites favourite…the China model. Thanks for your shortsighted stupidity leftists…

  61. Also Trump the so called racist got the biggest non white vote of any Presidential candidate in 80 years…Trump the so called fascist dictator is the first POTUS not to take the USA into a conflict….Trump the so called fraud achieves what no POTUS has ever been able to achieve he brokers peace in the middle east. Remember Obama had the middle east in fucking flames from Syria to Libya. But sure yea tell me all your BS Trump lies. Leftist are all totally fucked up and brainwashed. They have brainwashed you to despise before thinking. you are reactionary. If you cant snap out of this soon, you’ll be left to your own devices…Just watch in the next few weeks when you see how many actual legit votes Biden received you might wake up then …you are a minority like 18% for fucks sake. Voter fraud and media brainwashing makes you think your a legitimate majority and you are far from that.

    1. Lol they have you idiots on such a hook it’s embarrassing. Signing a peace of paper clarifying the diplomatic reality that already existed between Israel and UAE = Middle East peace!

      You can’t see that he was going for the slogan there? He wanted to lie about what he achieved? You didn’t get that? Really? My god you people are too gullible to vote.

      1. If that is your complete response on Trump’s middle east intervention then I’m afraid you are completely lost in a world of BS, propaganda and programming. The sad thing is you are in so deep you have no clue how fucked up your entire world view is.

      2. I mean how fucking old are you? 6? 8? Are you too young to know about the chaos, bloodshed and destruction Obama ignited in Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Syria and Iraq? Are you too stupid to know Obama completely upturned the whole middle east in order to court and ultimately get suckered by Iran? Along the way he trashed all the long standing relationships. Israel, Egypt, Saudi’s, Emirates none of them trusted the US until Obama was gone and Trump made a deal with them all.You are a fucking lightweight, stay away from this topic you have the arguments of grade school child.

  62. Everyone had 4 years to figure out the media.

  63. Imagine a news media attempting to ensure a balance of power for sake of political equity and legacy equal time reform for the good of the profession.

    Now imagine programming your computer to let hackers in half the time for being a minority political power base.

    Okay, you can stop laughing any time now …

    1. Only in our cancel culture is journalism an illegal activity.

  64. Listen people, realities can be difficult to swallow particularly for those programmed to believe particular narratives. If you can square the tens of thousands of people who turned up to each and every Trump rally in battleground states with the lack of attendance at the Biden rallies, then clearly you’re in a fairy tale parallel reality.

    Trump voters are confident this election will be decided on legal and only legal ballots. It is very clear to any honest observer that massive dumps of votes that add to Biden’s total at 4am need to be certified. Therefore the total listed for ALL the undecided states are estimates only.

    In case you missed it the election is classed as critical infrastructure, Obama did this a few weeks before he left office. Therefore, Trump’s brand new agency CISA is all over the processes involved. True the states run the election. However if they are proven to have run it so poorly that it has devolved into a national security issue, rest assured it will be decided by the Supreme Court and likely a decision will be taken that ALL national elections must have Federal supervision at all levels. A good thing for everyone.

    I know this will not be accepted by the brainwashed leftists, that is their problem not mine. The fact is Biden and the complicit media are pushing narratives that he is winning based on the uncertified vote totals of 6 Democrat run states. The fact that these states refused to ensure their systems would run efficiently, are still counting while much larger states finished days ago and have seen suspicious Biden increases at 4am all mean that their results will be challenged and likely audited and recounted.

    It was a nice attempt by Biden and the complicit media to build a narrative that Biden has won, however it will not fly. The current influence operation underway to convince people this is so will fail and will expose even more media outlets as peddlers of fake news.

    The fact, the reality is that this election is critical infrastructure. State and federal authorities, adults will ensure the result is legal and certifiable. Any honest observer would conclude that there is a strong probability that the Biden vote totals have over stated.

    Therefore it would serve leftists well to ponder the probability that Trump’s tens of thousands of actual people, real life voters are likely more evidence of his win that the uncertified total we are currently seeing.

    Ask yourself this; on a scale of 1 to 10, how easy is it to run a legal and efficient election? How easy is it to run a complete shambles of an election that is disorganized to the point that vast numbers of unknown ballots could be introduced? If you are honest you’d see that the current play by these 6 Democrat run states is the far easier path than runnning an efficient and effective election. They’d have finished days ago if they were.

  65. These political issues are most critical. The public must raise their voices for the corrupts.

  66. It was a pleasant endeavor by Biden and the complicit media to fabricate an account that Biden has won, anyway it won’t fly. The current impact activity in progress to persuade individuals this is so will come up short and will uncover much more news sources as vendors of phony news.

    The reality, actually this political decision is basic foundation. State and government specialists, grown-ups will guarantee the outcome is legitimate and authentic. Any genuine onlooker would infer that there is a solid likelihood that the Biden vote aggregates have over expressed.

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