Farm Subsidies

The Feds Have Doled Out Record Farm Subsidies To Save Trump's Campaign

There's an easier way to lessen the impact of retaliatory agriculture tariffs: repeal our own

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With the presidential election now just over two weeks away, President Donald Trump has mounted a frantic effort to ensure America's farmers, a key Trump voting bloc, will support his flagging re-election campaign. In short, he's shoving piles of cash their way.

The New York Times details the "gush of funds" Trump has promised U.S. farmers—with more on the way. Some say total farm subsidies could top $40 billion this year. The Times says the figure may be as high as $46 billion. Either figure would be a record.

Generally, it appears Trump may see this sort of "massive pre-election stimulus" as his best hope for reelection.

Critics have seized on the manner in which the Trump administration is subsidizing farmers—mostly outside of the traditional (though also lousy) programs funded under the five-year Farm Bill. 

"[T]he bulk of USDA payments to farmers since 2017 have flowed through stop-gap programs created by the Trump administration, with payment limits far larger than those that apply to the traditional farm program," Successful Farming reported in August.

The combination of farm subsidies included in the current Farm Bill and subsidies doled out under Trump's executive order means, the Times reports, that two out of every five dollars American farmers receive this year will come directly from taxpayers.

Critics, including many Democrats, argue the funds are being doled out as political favors. They appear to have a point. Last month, for example, during an election rally in Wisconsin, Trump announced additional payments to farmers totaling $13 billion.

Non-partisan observers have also labeled them political handouts. "The Government Accountability Office found last month that $14.5 billion of farm aid in 2019 had been handed out with politics in mind," The Week reports. The Times, citing the same GAO report, also highlighted by some Democrats, shows farm subsidies last year appeared to be directed to "big farms in the Midwest and southern states," mirroring at least some segments of Trump's farm base.

That same base has been hit hard by tariffs championed by Trump. In 2018, I predicted (as did many others) that Trump's international trade tariffs would spur retaliatory tariffs and harm U.S. farmers and consumers in the process. They did just that.

But because Trump's tariffs hurt U.S. farmers, and because he wants them to vote for him again, he's sending them cash. That cash even has a name. Last year, one farmer NPR food-policy writer Dan Charles spoke with says he and his fellow farmers have taken to referring to the tariff-induced subsidies as "Trump money."

"The U.S. Department of Agriculture simply sent [the farmer] a check to compensate him for the low prices resulting from the trade war," Charles explains.

Most of Trump's subsidies have gone to large producers.

"Despite the record amount of farm welfare payments doled out by this administration, the smaller struggling family farmers get next to nothing while wealthy landowners and massive, highly profitable agribusiness hoover up most of the federal dollars," says Don Carr, a senior advisor with the Environmental Working Group, in an email to me this week. "I'm old enough to remember when a Minnesota millionaire qualifying for a puny food stamp benefit was a scandal, yet few feathers get ruffled when rich land barons collect million-dollar government welfare checks."

All of these payments are wrongheaded and unnecessary—whether to big or small producers—as I detail in my book, Biting the Hands that Feed Us.

In a Chicago Tribune op-ed this week, Wisconsin farmer and advocate Danielle Endvick explains that while the record farm subsidies are "deeply appreciated," taking buckets of "Trump money"—she notes federal farm payments have "nearly tripled since 2017″— "feels just a little bit dirty" during the election season.

She's right. Everything feels dirty during the election season. But Trump's taxpayer handouts to farmers just feels a little bit dirtier.

NEXT: Is the Senate Filibuster a 'Jim Crow Relic'?

Farm Subsidies Donald Trump Election 2020 Tariffs Corporate Welfare

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345 responses to “The Feds Have Doled Out Record Farm Subsidies To Save Trump's Campaign

  1. > Some say total farm subsidies could top $40 billion this year.

    Or a whopping 1.5% of what Pelosi wanted to give to D state pension fund bailouts. Which this magazine bitched about her *not getting*.

    What a fucking clown parade this place has become. Yes, lamenting farm bailouts is libertarian. But so is *consistency* in principle.

    1. > “Despite the record amount of farm welfare payments doled out by this administration, the smaller struggling family farmers get next to nothing while wealthy landowners and massive, highly profitable agribusiness hoover up most of the federal dollars,”

      Which seems like a terrible way to buy a lot of votes. So which is it? A vote buying scheme, or a bailout for large corporations? Or is it just that Trump did it, and therefore it’s bad?

      Gods but I hate it when people make arguments that are so unutterably moronic that I end up having to defend Trump, simply because allowing blatant mendacity to stand is unconscionable.

      1. The big farms have PACs, and Trump wants those PACs mailing everyone in the midwest saying “Trump supports our farmers.”

        It’s a perfectly reasonable way to buy votes.

        1. Kind of a waste in my mind. It’s not like farmers were going to vote for Biden anyway.
          Gone are the days of a certain Georgia peanut farmer. For the last twenty years the Democrats have been openly contemptuous of the supposedly bigoted and backward country folk. That doesn’t earn you votes.

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          2. After decades of Republicans directing subsidies to farmers and farmers voting for Republicans, it’s a bit hard to disentangle cause and effect. But the Republicans aren’t about to stop doing what has been working.

            1. Shut up idiot.

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            2. Farm Subsidy – 100% [D] support 13-[R] against.
              Keep the B.S. lie alive eh?

              1. I stand corrected. The pork for farmers flows bi-partisanly.

                  1. LOL. Above, Mother’s is all like, “I could provide a link, but will you admit you were wrong?!”

                    I admit I’m wrong about something, and another CACLL is criticizing me for it.

                    There is no satisfying you guys, because you are interesting in “winning”, but the important thing, which is truth and understanding how we can have better government.

                    1. The problem is that you’re usually a disingenuous shitbag most of the time. Stop acting ,Ike that entirely and eventually most people here will start to give you the benefit of the doubt.

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                    3. Put your apology to everyone in tomorrow’s Roundup. The citation links start here:

                      https://reason.com/2020/10/17/the-feds-have-doled-out-record-farm-subsidies-to-save-trumps-campaign/#comment-8528870

                    4. Put your apology to everyone in tomorrow’s Roundup.

                      lol wonder who gets the first apology, White Knight or Liberals Are People Too.

                1. “I stand corrected.” — It’s a rare and a very *respectable* trait to have.

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                1. Why is this the most spammed site on the internet? Every. Single. Article.

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        2. “The big farms have PACs, and Trump wants those PACs mailing everyone in the midwest saying “Trump supports our farmers.”

          It’s a perfectly reasonable way to buy votes.”

          Your post is retarded, and no it isn’t.

          PAC’s the fucking idiot says.

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        3. Much like Obama phones, and the promise of college debt forgiveness, free college tuition, universal basic income, and racial preparations. With both sides buying votes, now wonder we are $30 trillion in debt.

          1. ^Exactly – What ever happened to Constitution-principled votes

      2. “So which is it? A vote buying scheme, or a bailout for large corporations?”

        Both! Make noises about bailing out the small farmers, to gather their votes. But small farmers won’t have enough funds to bribe Trump… Ooops, I mean, make campaign contributions, AND to buy Trump some “play time” with Stormy Daniels! The REALLY big bucks MUST go the the mega-corps, to get significant money back to the Trump campaign! See “concentrated benefits, diffuse costs”.

        1. It doesn’t help that farmers generally have been socialists from time immemorial. They’ve always been fans of the special pleading that their industry is uniquely dependent on the weather and therefore everybody owes it to them to bail them out when God fucks them over. Which He does every year – bad weather destroys their crops and they deserve money for that calamity and good weather leads to crop surpluses and low prices and they deserve money for that calamity as well.

          1. (This is last time I checked; it was years ago; things may have changed).

            LOTS and LOTS of farmer welfare is set aside for grain farming, dairy, and “reserved idled farmlands”. And the costs of water out west. There is VERY LITTLE welfare farming specially devoted to fruits and veggies! Yet fruits and veggies do just fine! Crop insurance, smart farming and management, and free trade will do JUST FINE if Government Almighty will (please?) just FUCK OFF!

            1. Truck farming has lots of marketing boards doing the central planning thing of deciding what the “proper” amount of crops are to be allowed to be sold and setting quotas for farmers. You might remember a story here not long ago about the couple suing the raisin board for basically confiscating some big chunk of their crop in the name of “managed trade”. But you’re right about most of the outright cash payments going to commodity farmers. And the boards are apparently relaxing their rules – I’m seeing these “mini” apples and oranges being marketed that in days past would have been banned for not meeting the size regulations of the apple board and the citrus board. And, of course, long ago we had the Florida farmers fighting to be able to market Ugli tomatoes that didn’t meet the standards for size and shape demanded by the tomato board.

              1. Dude, throwing food away decreases supply which means higher prices which means more money and that makes us rich!

                1. Is this fake weekend sarc again?

                  Or real weekday drunk has a mother I fucked last night sarc?

                  1. You should go get checked for Syphilis.

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                  2. Pretty sure either sarc are parasitic fungal spores that underwent mitosis.
                    Mom’s may not have been involved.

                2. Who’s this “us”? Politicians? Big-Corp spends Little-Corp’s money to buy them out and throw them away in order to build/keep a monopoly. You really think government should be creating a food-monopoly as well as the healthcare-monopoly they already created?

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        2. You admitted you eat shit.

          1. Indeed he does. Is it his own, or from other people? Or both?

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    2. “Which this magazine bitched about her *not getting*.”

      Really? Do you have a link? I don’t read ALL of the articles here, or in the magazine, and didn’t see that.

      1. No you did, you’re just a lying racist idiot.

      2. Yeah but you eat shit.

        1. Thanks for the link!

          I read it and found very little editorializing; Just facts, links, and quotes from various people, for the most part.

          One snippet sounds editorial-ish to me:

          “With eviction rates below historic averages in most cities and rental payment rates staying pretty steady throughout the pandemic, a massive new federal program to bail out tenants and rental property owners seems excessive.”

          This sure does NOT sound like a Reason writer lining up to help Nancy Pelosi cry for more stimulus spending!

          1. If you don’t see how that headline and lead were designed to piss on Trump, I don’t know how to help you. It tries to frame the story about Trump killing a negotiation with stupid tweets. It is only when you go through it that you realize the actual problem is that GOP and Dems don’t agree.

            Honestly, most of the drama on this site seems to come from whomever is writing the headlines. They failed to summarize the story accurately, chose to focus on Trump rather than the negotiations, and the “Now they’ll get $0” parting shot is the type of “assume that bailouts are a good thing” statement that you’d expect at Vox.

            1. Title / Intro:

              Democrats and the White House Were Nearing an Agreement on Renter, Homeowner Assistance. Then Trump Tweeted.
              House Democrats had approved $71 billion in assistance to homeowners and renters. The White House said it would agree to $60 billion. Now they’ll get $0.

              … Totally factual; No editorializing here. Did not say “getting zero” is good or bad. Also is neutral at the end, on whether this is good or bad:

              Whether the mercurial Trump will stick to his decision to walk away from stimulus talks remains to be seen. After tweeting that he was done negotiating, the president again took to Twitter to urge the passage of a bailout for the airlines and another round of stimulus checks.

              It’s possible renters and homeowners will also benefit from Trump’s backtracking. If they don’t, they’ll have to wait until 2021 for more help from the feds.

              My comments on the latter: One cannot deny (in good faith) that Trump yanked everyone’s chains back and forth on yes-stimulus or no-stimulus. Stock market clearly went down and then back up in reaction. This is not “steady as she goes, ship-at sea” statesmanship. This was indeed “the mercurial Trump” in action! And note that the end of the article, once again, is neutral on what the outcome will be… After having EARLIER (as I noted further above) editorialized that this kind of spending (rent-related) seems excessive!

              1. Tulpa is right, you’re

                Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf

                1. And he eats shit.

    3. When you include such lies as this magazine wanting states to get Pelosi’s bailout, you show your true colors as a liar first and foremost. Everything you say after that is tainted by that first big lie.

      1. You mustn’t have been here in April.

        1. That was coy. If you have a link to where Reason shilled for Pelosi’s bailout, enlighten us.

          1. Shut up idiot

          2. I want to know something, White Knight.
            If I provide a link, will you admit that you were wrong and apologize to everyone here?

            You see, I don’t think you actually want a cite. I think you hope that they can’t be bothered to go and look for the cite, and then you get to pretend that they were lying.
            So either agree to apologize to everyone and get your cite or fuck off.

            1. I want a cite. Please provide it.

            2. Mamma can’t provide the link! Either that, or she will cite some bullshit she wrote herself! Typical of the mendacious right-wing twits we see here!

              1. Yeah but you eat shit.

              2. The link’s already in the thread retard.
                If you actually read the posts instead of spamming your brain-injury copypasta everywhere, you’d know that.

            3. I admit when I am wrong. But you have to provide something to prove you are right.

                1. ENB is pissed there’s no bailout money for hookers:

                  “By denying disaster-relief to disfavored workers and businesses, however, authorities aren’t merely trying to keep the “structure of the economy” relatively stable— they’re seemingly designing a new, post-COVID-19 economy, without workers and businesses they don’t like.”

                  https://reason.com/2020/04/01/u-s-sex-workers-and-prurient-businesses-explicitly-excluded-from-covid-19-disaster-loans/

                  1. “The Next Coronavirus Stimulus Package Should Also Repeal Tariffs”

                    https://reason.com/2020/07/10/the-next-coronavirus-stimulus-package-should-also-repeal-tariffs/

                    1. Then there’s Reason’s beloved Amash shilling the stimulus…

                      The Most Libertarian Congressman Wants To Send People Checks. Here’s Why.
                      “Congressional leaders are wasting time on slow, convoluted proposals. Americans need fast, direct relief. Start getting monthly checks to people now.
                      Provide $1,250 per adult and $500 per child for each of the next three months, unless the lockdowns end sooner. After the third month, Congress can renew, modify, or discontinue these payments as appropriate.
                      Make the payments universal to speed things up. We can consider recouping payments made to high-income households later, but we shouldn’t delay payments now. In any case, individuals who don’t need the money can donate the amount to help others who are struggling.”

                      https://reason.com/2020/03/24/the-most-libertarian-congressman-wants-to-send-people-checks-heres-why/

                    2. Cutting taxes are bad, free money good.

                      “A Payroll Tax Holiday Is No Free Lunch
                      Forgiving payroll taxes is a bad way of stimulating the economy and would leave Social Security benefits underfunded.”

                      https://reason.com/2020/09/03/a-payroll-tax-holiday-is-no-free-lunch/

                    3. “The recent stimulus was a good, bipartisan start”

                      “States that already are cash-strapped from the pandemic’s economic fallout will need money to cover expenses such as printing and mailing excess ballots. The recent stimulus was a good, bipartisan start — but provided less than a quarter of what is likely needed.”

                      https://reason.com/2020/04/09/how-to-hold-elections-during-a-pandemic/

                    4. More cutting taxes bad, free stimulus money good… seriously I can’t even:

                      Obama’s stimulus consisted of a trillion dollars in straight-up government spending at a time when the economy was in a recession. Trump’s consists of unpaid-for tax cuts and increased government spending at a time when the economy was already growing.

                      https://reason.com/2019/11/01/trumps-near-zero-presidency/

                    5. “unpaid-for tax cuts”‘

                      *shakes head*

                    6. Now I don’t necessarily disagree with this sentiment, but still…

                      “If the federal government is to provide any additional stimulus funding for K-12 education, a significant portion of that money should go directly to families”

                      https://reason.com/2020/07/09/dont-force-schools-to-reopen-but-dont-force-families-to-pay-for-closed-schools-either/

                    7. Ending federal aid and stimulus moolah is racist according to guess who:

                      “Trump has left no stone unturned to go after these jurisdictions in his four years in office. He has made multiple attempts, including via executive order, to strip federal aid from such cities. Courts have repeatedly rebuffed his efforts—but that didn’t stop him from threatening again in April to even deny pandemic-related aid to these cities if they didn’t fall in line with his immigration enforcement priorities…
                      Thanks to him, there will be no escaping accusations by the left that states’ rights are merely a ruse to protect white power.”

                      https://reason.com/2020/07/23/trumps-political-opportunism-has-shredded-federalism/

                    8. “The Next Coronavirus Stimulus Package Should Also Repeal Tariffs”

                      Damned straight we should get rid of tariffs, which are TAXES!!! Protectionism = Government Almighty picking winners and losers! Go, Reason, go; Keep up the GOOD work of “just saying no” to advocates of MORE power for Government Almighty!

                    9. “Cutting taxes are bad, free money good.

                      “A Payroll Tax Holiday Is No Free Lunch
                      Forgiving payroll taxes is a bad way of stimulating the economy and would leave Social Security benefits underfunded.””

                      Social Security recipients paid in for years and years, and Mamma wants to rip them off! And NOT pay them back, for what they paid in! What is YOUR fix, Mamma, and HOW are you gonna sell it to the voters?

                    10. “More cutting taxes bad, free stimulus money good… seriously I can’t even:

                      Obama’s stimulus consisted of a trillion dollars in straight-up government spending at a time when the economy was in a recession. Trump’s consists of unpaid-for tax cuts and increased government spending at a time when the economy was already growing.”

                      Mamma argues, then, for what? Cutting taxes to zero? Along with the more spending? … The simple point here is, Trump is NOT for balanced budgets in ANY way! Even before Covid, he spent-spent-spent, while cutting taxes, to buy votes! In good economic times, we MUST spend more (AND cut taxes) to buy more votes! In BAD times, we must spend more to fix the economy! WHERE does this end? What is YOUR fix, Mamma, other than gutter-sniping? “Reason” here is simply advocating being grown-ups about budgets, and not constantly spending like drunken sailors!

                2. https://reason.com/2020/10/07/democrats-and-the-white-house-were-nearing-an-agreement-on-renter-homeowner-assistance-then-trump-tweeted/

                  Utter bullshit, Mendacious, Lying Mamma! This was NOT a pro-Pelosi, pro-spend-spend-spend article! I already refuted that, as below!

                  I read it and found very little editorializing; Just facts, links, and quotes from various people, for the most part.
                  One snippet sounds editorial-ish to me:
                  “With eviction rates below historic averages in most cities and rental payment rates staying pretty steady throughout the pandemic, a massive new federal program to bail out tenants and rental property owners seems excessive.”
                  This sure does NOT sound like a Reason writer lining up to help Nancy Pelosi cry for more stimulus spending!

                  WHERE in the article, did the Reason writer advocate for Pelosi and spend-spend-spend? Liar!

                  WHY should honest people refute your endless lies, when you’ll be right back tomorrow, repeating the same lies?

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      2. Fuck off SQRLSY you already stupidly bitched at
        him with your other sock you stupid fucking racist.

        1. For Sqrls not even Hitler was racist enough:

          SQRLSY One
          September.30.2020 at 12:53 pm

          Yes! This FURTHER proves that Hitler was NOT a racist!
          Since even Hitler wasn’t a racist, we can pretty firmly conclude that racism isn’t a “thing” at all!

          1. On the off chance that anyone cares, AND gives a shit about CONTEXT (which liars like Mamma are entirely to dishonest to give a shit about), what was going on here, is that right-wing nut-jobs were being right-wing nut-jobs ass usual, and arguing that Proud Boys could NO WAY EVER be racists, because they accepted members of non-white races! So I pointed out that Hitler allied NAZIs with Japanese “Yellow Aryans”… So Hitler wasn’t racist, either!
            Disproving stupid ideas with MORE stupid ideas, using the same so-called “logic”, escapes the mentally handicapped among us, though…

            CRY MORE over imaginary hurtings of Your Precious Baby Feeeeelings, cry-wolf racism-mongerer whiner-crybaby!

      3. The article I posted at 12:48 just above this was pretty critical of Trump for submarining the $2.4T bill. To be fair, it had no “Trump should do” or direct opinion. But then it pretty much only quoted people who wanted the stimulus, said that Trump’s tweeting killed it, rather than the fact that it is full of bullshit, and focused on $60B in the bill without mentioning any of the remaining $2300B in the bill.

        It was a pretty bad article.

    4. “Which this magazine bitched about her *not getting*.”

      Can you back that up with a link to where you saw someone from Reason bitched about Pelosi’s not getting relief for states?

      1. “Can you back that up with a link”

        You’ve become a parody of yourself.

        1. So, you’ve got nuthin’.

          1. You’re an idiot

          2. No actually I have you beimg a parody of yourself.

            ““Can you back that up with a link”

            You’ve become a parody of yourself.

            1. If we White Knights ask for a link it’s in the hope that our victim couldn’t be bothered to go and hunt for the cite, and then it’s our win!

              Of course if someone like, say, Overt, posts https://reason.com/2020/10/07/democrats-and-the-white-house-were-nearing-an-agreement-on-renter-homeowner-assistance-then-trump-tweeted/ then it’s bad news and our fifty spazzing posts are compromised.

              We can still save face though, by dismissing the content or cherrypicking quotes while ignoring the body of the argument (see Sqrls excellent #comment-8527547).

              If that fails we can claim the article was an exception and demand more cites (preferably notarized).

              I love being a White Knight. I get to lie and feel righteous about it.

              1. Here’s the only paragraph in the entire article that expressed an opinion:

                “With eviction rates below historic averages in most cities and rental payment rates staying pretty steady throughout the pandemic, a massive new federal program to bail out tenants and rental property owners seems excessive.”

                All else is straight reporting. So, the one statement that expresses an opinion argues against bailouts fir tenants and landlords, calling it “excessive”.

                1. See, White Knight Original Flavor demonstrates it perfectly.

                  I told you above that he would cherrypick quotes while ignoring or lying about the body of the argument, and boy, does he follow through perfectly.

                  What a champ. A credit to white knights and fifty-centers everywhere.

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    10. I see that I managed to irritate the usual suspects.

      Seriously guys *you commented on the article in question*. If you can’t remember two weeks ago, I’m not sure there’s any hope for y’all.

    11. I agree. There are SO many anti-Trumpers here at Reason they should change their name to “Delusion.”

    12. Agreed – Reason usually just confuses libertarianism with purposeless equivocal criticism of Dems and Republicans. It seems to be getting more dishonest as we get closer to the election.

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  3. What a pantload. Trump would never buy votes. Only Democrats do that. And tariffs only hurt foreigners. Stupid Democrat magazine.

    1. EXCELLENT short-hand summary of a boat-load of crap I read here frequently! You read them saying “Reason leftists & authoritarians advocate Democrat brain-control machines installed on everyone”, and such-like stuff & stuff & stuffy shit, & you ask them for a link where a Reason writer EVER wrote that, and they NEVER get back to you! What a surprise!

      1. Pretty much. I used to think they didn’t get that I was making fun of them and thought I was being serious, but that isn’t the case. Just like the libtards when O’Bummer was president, these people don’t argue in good faith. They’re just looking to score points with each other by being mean and nasty to anyone who disagrees with them. And they call me sad? I can’t think of anything more pathetic than getting so worked up over politics that you need to be hateful in order to feel good about yourself. Fucking losers.

        1. “I used to think they didn’t get that I was making fun of them and thought I was being serious, but that isn’t the case.”

          No one is fooled by your idiotic trolling. Fuck off and die.

          1. Case in point.

            1. No one is fooled by your idiotic trolling. Fuck off and die.

              1. Says the pathetic internet tough guy who can only lift himself up by tearing other people down. So sad. Boo hoo.

                1. No one is fooled by your idiotic trolling. Fuck off and die.

                  1. Shorter Sevo: “Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!”

                    1. The real tragedy Sarcasmic is that Reason provides unmoderated space for libertarian minded people to form a community. Look at what we get.

                    2. It’s time for you to fuck off, Sarcasmic.
                      Go be a thread shitter at Huffpo.

                    3. Yep. We get a bunch of conservative assholes who’ve been kicked off every other forum for being assholes, and all they do is shit on Reason and shit on libertarians because all they know how to do is be assholes.

                    4. shorter sarc

                      “THEIR TROLLING IS MEAN I TROLL FOR JUSTICE>”

                      AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

                      WHAT A MORON AHAHAHAHAHAHAJA

                    5. Nobody’s been kicked off of anywhere, sarc.
                      You’re just supermad that your bullying techniques aren’t working here, so you’ve fallen back on calling names.
                      Fuck you.

                  2. “No one is fooled by your idiotic trolling”

                    Says the guy who literally posted over and over and over again in response to sarc.

                    Like a fish on a hook, one might say…

                    1. Fuck off = fooled?

                      You losers always try SO HARD lololo

                2. “only lift himself up by tearing other people down”

                  Oh god you’re pretending to be an elementary school teacher lolololol

                  also

                  sarcasmic
                  October.17.2020 at 10:19 am
                  Pretty much. I used to think they didn’t get that I was making fun of them”

                  Ahahahah fake weekend sarc is so stupid lolololo

          2. Wow, you said the word, hateful, and Sevo materialized.

            1. And you say dumb shit constantly.

            2. No surprise there.

              1. Awww fake weekend sarc is MAD!

        2. But you aren’t making fun of anyone, you’re creating strawman because you’re broken. Only you and chipper think histrionic strawman arguments are comedy.

          1. Life without a sense of humor must really suck. Not for you. You can’t miss what you never had. Rather for your family and coworkers. I really pity them.

            1. To be fair, JesseAz has a little bit of a sense of humor. Now, Nardz and Sevo, on the other hand…

              1. You don’t have a sense of humor, idiot.

              2. I’ll take your word for it.

            2. sarc thinks his trolling is funny!

              He thinks he’s being laughed at BECAUSE HIS TROLLING IS FUNNY!

      2. Here’s my latest conspiracy theory! The far-right wing-nut posters here are trying to turn Reason’s comments forum into an extension of QAnon!

        For a good read about QAnon, see…
        https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/16/tech/qanon-believer-how-he-got-out/index.html

        1. spaz has ‘theories’? About Elvis alien love child?
          Fuck off and die.

          1. Everyone take note! Sevo is on the rag again today!

            Hey Sevo! It would be MUCH easier for the readers here, for you to inform us when you are NOT on the rage-rag! FAR fewer gutter-clutter posts that way!

            1. Spaz spazing again; what a suprise!

            2. I think his crotch is permanently filled with sand.

              1. No one is fooled by your idiotic trolling. Fuck off and die.

              2. Hey remember when you said you were going to sexually assault Tulpa?

                We do.

            3. Sevo mentioned the other day he has a wife. That must be day after endless day of fun, fun, fun.

              1. You did your best to fit in and the only people who like you are the other pariahs.

                You got run off the board and slunk bank, only to become a handle thief.

                You run sockpuppets to agree with yourself.

              2. Probably a blast, tbh.
                Your significant other must love pomposity and duplicity, however, or live a life of pain.

                1. He fucks goats.

              3. Unless she’s a total see you next Tuesday and he comes here to let off steam.

                Nahhh. I pity that poor woman.

                1. I pity real sarc haiving to deal with your fake ass.

        2. Any organization that employs Brian Stelter in a non-ironic way lacks credibility.

        3. trying to turn Reason’s comments forum into an extension of QAnon

          Does anyone actually believe in Qanon outside of the left?
          It seems to be just another 4chan prank to make deranged progs panicky. Like the “okay” hand gesture is racist, or Pepe the frog is white nationalism.

          1. QAnon is a creature of the right, not of the left! Liar! That’s why Trump plays footsie with QAnon, and won’t clearly dismiss them like they should be dismissed!

            From https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/16/tech/qanon-believer-how-he-got-out/index.html … Imported from damned close to the top… Did axe-grinding TrumpTard even READ any of it?

            ‘QAnon only hurts people. It has helped nobody.’

            QAnon is a virtual cult that began in late 2017.

            The most basic QAnon belief casts President Trump as the hero in a fight against the “deep state” and a sinister cabal of Democratic politicians and celebrities who abuse children. And it features an anonymous government insider called “Q” who purportedly shares secret information about that fight via cryptic online posts.

            1. You should stop eating shit, it’s rotting your brain.

            2. Orangemanbad, Sqrls

            3. I didn’t say the left liked Qanon, Sqrls. Just that they’re the only people who believe it’s even a thing.

              The latest in establishment scaremongering, a conspiracy about a conspiracy.

            4. “….. won’t clearly dismiss them….”

              Haha. Damn, you need to be lead so badly. Pathetic.

          2. Trump lusts after QAnon fostering the next “Pizza Gate”

            Pizzagate! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizzagate_conspiracy_theory

            Just a wee tad more of touching upon how the Trumptatorshit is openly inviting senseless right-wing violence in the USA, in reaction to ANY Trump election loss (no matter HOW legitimate and overwhelming), would have been a good idea, though, IMHO.
            The case is easy and simple… Der TrumpfenFuhrer has done half of our work already!

            Right-wing nut-jobs like to dismiss the idea of unjust, senseless violence being the result of LIES told by said right-wing nuts. This is just a Fairy Tale, they say.
            They are WRONG!

            1. Orangemanbad, Sqrls

          3. HERE are the lies being told NOW, to right-wing nut-jobs, in hopes of stirring up “Pizza-Gate Part II”!

            https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/24/politics/trump-election-warnings-leaving-office/index.html
            A list of the times Trump has said he won’t accept the election results or leave office if he loses

            Essential heart and core of the LIE by Trump: “ANY election results not confirming MEEE as Your Emperor, MUST be fraudulent!”
            September 13 rally: “The Democrats are trying to rig this election because that’s the only way they’re going to win,” he said.

            1. Poop. You eat it.

            2. Orangemanbad, Sqrls

              1. Nothing is as stale as “orange man bad”!
                (With the implied idea being that “anyone who says bad things about Orange Man, no matter HOW long and well-documented the list of Trump evils may be, such bad-things-sayer must be a stupid moron”).

                Albert Einstein delivers a long lecture with 553 equations and tons of evidence. Conservative moron will say that Einstein said “stuff and stuff is relative”, and walk smugly away, thinking that they have “summarized” Einstein!

                Conservative moron will tour Holocaust museums and “summarize” by saying “Mustache Man Bad”!

                Fucking stupid, smart-ass moronic conservatives STOP smugly posting “Orange Man Bad”, and I will stop posting my reply!

                1. Stop eating shit.

                2. Orangemanbad, Sqrls

      3. Speaking of a boat load of crap, you would eat that boat load.

    2. “What a pantload”

      You deliver again. Without fail.

    3. Hey another sarcasmic strawman to start a thread. Consistent at least.

      1. Poor JesseAz. So serious all the time. Can’t lighten up. I pity anyone who shares your air. Being around you must really suck.

        1. He’s not serious all the time just the other day he made a joke about the time you got a DUI pn your bike.

          Which is STILL hilarious.

          1. He got a DUI on a bike?

  4. It seems improbable that the USDA is one of the few, if not the only, departments of the federal government working hard to ensure Trump’s re-election. I’d suggest that Trump’s re-election isn’t the primary reason the USDA is more than happy to shovel money out the door for farmers, in fact I’d go so far as to say that the USDA is happy to shovel money out the door despite the fact that it might help Trump’s re-election.

    I still remember back about 10 years ago when the USDA started a new program to get more people on Food Stamps and when the program worked, they put out press releases bragging about the fact that more people than ever were on Food Stamps. Talk about perverse incentives! Apparently the USDA would declare it a complete success if everybody in the country were on Food Stamps! If the goal of government’s anti-poverty programs were to eliminate poverty, we should be seeing a shrinking number of poor people and therefore shrinking government anti-poverty programs – anybody seen government programs getting smaller lately? Or ever? No? Every single problem the government attacks must be getting worse because the government demands greater and greater resources to attack the problem.

    1. Well, sure. After you’ve been shoveling money out the door did decades, it’s just what you do.

      Has as much or more to do with getting Senators and Representatives re-elected.

      1. Shut up idiot.

    2. It is amazing how impossible it is for this government to control its spending. Even freezing funding or limiting it to “only” 1% per year is impossible. It is crazy.

      1. The last administration didn’t set a very good example. Seem’s “commie” (your) money “bailout” is the new wave of politics.

    3. “the USDA started a new program to get more people on Food Stamps and when the program worked, they put out press releases bragging about the fact that more people than ever were on Food Stamps. Talk about perverse incentives!”

      And now 42% of Americans are obese, and the treatments of their diseases and disabilities will be subsidized by non obese healthcare insurance policy holders and taxpayers.

  5. Those tariffs were a great idea. That sure panned out well.

    1. Damned straight! We can pussy-grab all those moronic un-American ferriners all day, every day, and they will NEVER figure out how to pussy-grab us right back! Thank YOU, Donald, for having revoked the rules about “what comes around, goes around”!

      1. Speaking of going around, then coming around, after you eat, you poop. Then you eat the poop.

      2. Orangemanbad, Sqrls.

        1. Jesus H. Christ, Mother’s, you like it when SQRLSY pasted his orange man bad monologue? Why are you begging him to do it?

          1. Is crying on here continuously your job?

            You can’t possibly be doing it all day for free.

            1. He gets 50 cents a post. It’s good work if you’re an idiot.

              1. The Communist Party of China raised their rates, it’s like $1.25 now

              2. I’m quite happy to pester Mother’s on my own dime.

        2. Ask, and ye shall receive A Truth!

          Orange Man bad?!? He BAD, all right! He SOOO BAD, He be GOOD! He be GREAT! He Make America Great Again!

          We KNOW He can Make America Great Again, because, as a bad-ass businessman, He Made Himself and His Family Great Again! He Pussy Grabber in Chief!

          See The Atlantic article by using the below search-string in quotes:
          “The Many Scandals of Donald Trump: A Cheat Sheet” or this one…

          https://reason.com/2019/09/02/republicans-choose-trumpism-over-property-rights-and-the-rule-of-law/

          He pussy-grab His creditors in 7 bankruptcies, His illegal sub-human workers ripped off of pay on His building projects, and His “students” in His fake Get-Rich-like-Me realty schools, and so on. So, He has a GREAT record of ripping others off! So SURELY He can rip off other nations, other ethnic groups, etc., in trade wars and border wars, for the benefit of ALL of us!!!

          All Hail to THE Pussy Grabber in Chief!!!

          Most of all, HAIL the Chief, for having revoked karma! What comes around, will no longer go around!!! The Donald has figured out that all of the un-Americans are SOOO stupid, that we can pussy-grab them all day, every day, and they will NEVER think of pussy-grabbing us right back!

          Orange Man Bad-Ass Pussy-Grabber all right!

          We CAN grab all the pussy, all the time, and NONE will be smart enough to EVER grab our pussies right back!

          These voters simply cannot or will not recognize the central illusion of politics… You can pussy-grab all of the people some of the time, and you can pussy-grab some of the people all of the time, but you cannot pussy-grab all of the people all of the time! Sooner or later, karma catches up, and the others will pussy-grab you right back!

          1. orangemanbad

          2. “Orange Man Bad” as a summary from conservatives, of page after page after page, detail after detail, testimony upon testimony, of HOW and WHY Orange Man is a lying hypocritical narcissistic and corrupt, self-centered weasel, who is ruining the good reputation (for years if not decades) of the USA, internationally, shows the utter contempt that conservatives hold the rest of us in! “Here, dummy, I can summarize ALL of the encyclopedic knowledge that has been gathered concerning Der TrumpfenFuhrer, so that YOU (dumbshit) will NOT have to trouble your pretty little head, studying all that boring stuff! It just amounts to Orange Man Bad, end of story!”

            Don’t study medicine or boring medical texts… I will summarize it for you! “The human body is made of icky pus and smegma, slimy blood and mucus, and icky poop!”

            Law summary: “He or she who habeas the corpus, must take proper care of it.”

            Computers? Stop studying, you fool! “Learn to code; garbage in, garbage out; just be logical!”

            Electrical Hardware Engineering? “Don’t stick your diode in an anode! Sparks is as sparks does!”

            And then conservatives and other Trumptatorshit worshippers and ignorance worshippers have the NERVE to say, “We need more SKILLED AND TALENTED immigrants and fewer ignorant ones coming into the USA!”!

            1. Go away racist.

            2. And stop eating shit.

            3. Orangemanbad, Sqrls

  6. BTW – in case anybody forgets, Hunter Biden didn’t kill himself.

    1. ??? Had not heard of this… Also note that Abraham Lincoln is ***STILL*** dead!

      This is Humanoid Unit BR549, and I just don’t know any more!

      I did find this, which might be relevant…

      https://www.npr.org/2020/10/16/923647389/experts-say-attack-on-hunter-bidens-addiction-deepens-stigma-for-millions

      1. An attack which just highlights the cruelty of Donald Trump. How many Americans have dealt with, or have family or people close who have dealt with addiction including alcohol often with tragic consequences.

        1. Sleepy Joe made this happen. He affirmatively made the choice to run for POTUS knowing this about his son. Hunter too, made his choices. He is the guy passed out with the crack pipe in his mouth; lovely photo. Now they both have to live with the consequences.

          POTUS Trump had nothing to do with either of the choices they made.

          1. “Sleepy Joe made this happen.”

            Joe mind-controlled his son? So punishing Joe for the doings of Hunter is totally OK? Do you have kids, brothers, sisters, friends? Are you on board with Government Almighty (or voters, or “society”) punishing YOU for what THEY do? Libertarians for collective punishment, is that a hill that you’d like to die on?

            Sounds more like “Hell” than “a hill” to me!

            1. Your breath smells like shit. Because you eat it.

              1. “Dear Abby” is a personal friend of mine. She gets some VERY strange letters! For my amusement, she forwards some of them to me from time to time. Here is a relevant one:

                Dear Abby, Dear Abby,
                My life is a mess,
                Even Bill Clinton won’t stain my dress,
                I whinny seductively for the horses,
                They tell me my picnic is short a few courses,
                My real name is Mary Stack,
                NO ONE wants my hairy crack!
                On disability, I live all alone,
                Spend desperate nights by the phone,
                I found a man named Richard Decker,
                But he won’t give me his hairy pecker!
                Decker’s pecker is reserved for farm beasts,
                I am beastly, yes! But my crack’s full of yeasts!

                So Dear Abby, that’s just a poetic summary… You can read about the Love of my Life, Richard Decker, here:
                https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/10/11/farmers-kept-refusing-let-him-have-sex-with-their-animals-so-he-sought-revenge-authorities-say/#comments-wrapper
                Farmers kept refusing to let him have sex with their animals. So he sought revenge, authorities say.
                Decker the hairy pecker told me a summary of his story as below:
                Decker: “Can I have sex with your horse?”
                Farmer: “Lemme go ask the horse.”
                Pause…
                Farmer: “My horse says ‘neigh’!”
                And THAT was straight from the horse’s mouth! I’m not horsin’ around, here, no mare!

                So Decker the hairy pecker told me that, apparently never even realizing just HOW DEEPLY it hurt me, that he was all interested in farm beasts, while totally ignoring MEEE!!

                So I thought maybe I could at least liven up my lonely-heart social life, by refining my common interests that I share with Richard Decker… I, too, like to have sex with horses!

                But Dear Abby, the horses ALL keep on saying “neigh” to my whinnying sexual advances!
                Some tell me that my whinnying is too whiny… Abby, I don’t know how to fix it!

                Dear Abby, please don’t tell me “get therapy”… I can’t afford it on my disability check!

                Now, along with my crack full of yeasts… I am developing anorexia! Some are calling me a “quarter pounder with cheese”, but they are NOT interested at ALL, in eating me!!! They will NOT snack on my crack!

                What will I DO, Dear Abby?!?!?

                -Desperately Seeking Horses, Men, or ANYTHING, in Fort Worth,
                Yours Truly,
                Mary Stack / Tulpa / Mary’s Period / “.” / Satan

                1. aren’t you the racist?

                2. That’s a lot of words when “I eat poop” would have sufficed.

                3. Orangemanbad, Sqrls

        2. This is the the important issue, hurt feelings. Not the possible pay for access crime committed; the crack was definitely not legal and as a bonus focus of ‘tough on crime’ Joe’s signature racist crime law.

          1. I think for the reasons I mentioned it will backfire on Trump. Many voters will ask themselves what if it was my adult child, sister, or father. Even then Joe had the perfect answer in the debate. He came right out and said his son had a problem that he overcame. Like a good father he said he was proud of him for that.

            I think a lot of us can relate to that.

            How does any of this reflect badly on Joe? It does not in the least. It only reflects badly on Trump for bringing it up.

            1. Did Hunter go to prison? No? Then it reflects badly on Biden. If voters seriously ask themselves the question “What if it was my son?”, they will reach the conclusion that their son would have gone to prison for a long, long time. Biden is one of a long line of DC swamp creatures to whom the law does not apply. See Clinton’s “I did not inhale”, W’s coke problem, Obama’s laughing about smoking pot and doing “a little blow” on late night television, etc.

              And that’s just the crack. We haven’t even gotten to the foreign influence peddling.

              1. You think people should go to prison for drug possession? Anyway I know very ordinary people who were arrested or caught with drugs and did not. Also who were able to get their records expunged. It happens all the time.

                Our system is a mess. End the war on drugs. That is one libertarian message I think everyone here agrees with.

                Amazing that people on this formerly libertarian website are complaining about people not going to prison for recreational drug use.

                And Obama snorting a little blow in college is not a “drug problem”. I went to college then. It was very popular. And Clinton smoking weed? What kind of Puritan jerk are you?

                Actually Biden’s idea of mandatory treatment has flaws but it is a step in the right direction. Harris said they plan to legalize pot on the federal level. Yay.

                Well it is almost time to get ready for dinner. Time to uncork that bottle of Zinfandel I am planning on for tonight.

            2. “Like a good father he”

              raised a crack head then pimped him to the Ukriane. Some “good father”. No voters will ask themselves ” what if it was my child” because they know they would never raise a crackhead, nor pimp their son.

            3. Echospinner, it is possible these two things can be true:

              One, Sleepy Joe gets voter sympathy about his son. Lot’s of voters have family members who deal with the same problem.

              Two, voters will see a double standard of justice. The cops would be all over John Q Public with the video evidence of illegal drug use we see. Yet Hunter is untouched; and BTW, the emails are absolutely damning.

              The NY Post released the data. It is noteworthy that neither Hunter nor Sleepy Joe are denying that the laptop is genuine and so are the emails.

              1. I know three very ordinary people in my life who were caught with drugs and got off. Happens all the time. Especially if you have no record and are otherwise employed or productive.

                No law enforcement is not fair and it is not just and not only about drugs. End the war.

      2. HAHAHA… OH WOW.

        Did the NPR really just defend a millionaire political scion from being picked on because of a picture of him passed out with a crack pipe in his mouth?

        1. That’s absolutely exquisite.

          The Trump campaign should forward that NPR article to every black family with a son in prison on drug charges.

      3. Lots of families face the issues of family members with addiction issues. Some of those families try to get the addicted family members to accept counseling or rehab.

        Almost none of them try to solve the addiction problem by letting the family member get rich off of selling government access to corrupt foreign businesses. Most people would assume that access to large amounts of illicit money would make the addict’s problems worse.

        1. “Most people would assume that access to large amounts of illicit money would make the addicts problems worse.”

          But enough about our bloated government and their hordes of “tax cuts are giveaways!” useful idiot enablers.

        2. The business dealings are not related. He went on to investment banking. Already a sleazy business. Sure he got there because he has connections. Did Donald Trump magically become a real estate mogul? That is how the world works.

          To me this is bullshit because nothing illegal has been proven. I don’t think the voters are going to care. We just elected a sleazy businessman. Now they are not going to care about one who has a son who is one.

          I am voting for Jo Jo. Don’t have a dog in this fight. Just seems like a pile of crap to me.

    2. Neither did Epstein but that case will never see the light of day.

    3. So if Costello and Giuliani had the copy of the files from Hunter Biden’s disk drive way back in September 2019, why didn’t they mention it during the impeachment proceedings? It seems kinda like relevant information.

      1. Because unlike you they were aware the impeachment was ineffectual partisan stupidity and was entirely bullshit and the info would be more useful now.

        God dammit you’re dumb.

        1. “God dammit you’re dumb.”

          He really is.

        2. Actually, it’s because they may not have had the files then. There are conflicting timelines for when Costello received the information from the computer repair shop owner.

          Of course, you didn’t know any of this — but you are calling me dumb.

          1. You are pretty dumb though. How many times did you fuck up in the roundup Friday? That was embarrassing for you.

      2. Because this isn’t what happened.

        Costello was not contacted about this until early 2020. Prior to that, the FBI allegedly had the data, and when they stopped responding to the shop owner, only then did he start contacting politicians.

        1. He is quoted as saying he received the information in September 2019. I’ll find the link…

          1. eventually i guess

            1. I will. When I went back to look into it more, I found there are two conflicting timelines out there. Writing it up with links. Will post it later; focusing on my family right now, not you knuckleheads.

              1. “there are two conflicting timelines out there. Writing it up ”

                You were wrong so you’re doing damage control, got it.

                1. Whatever. I’m interested in the truth. Aren’t you?

                  1. The truth is that I was right yesterday whwn I said you were wrong.

                    1. and all day today you’ve been doing damage control, tjats what all your spamming is

                  2. Still no links?

                    1. Ah I see them below. Good job Dee.

          2. OK, had time to look at this in more detail. Overt is correct, that Costello didn’t have the files until early 2020, if you go by Fox News’s timeline, but there are conflicting timelines out there:

            1. According to Fox News, “Hunter Biden email story: A timeline”:

            April 2019: The laptop is dropped off at John Paul Mac Isaac’s computer repair shop.
            December 2019: “The FBI comes back and confiscates the original devices, but not before Isaac made a copy of the hard drive.”
            “Early 2020: When he [computer repair shop owner, John Paul Mac Isaac] stopped hearing from the FBI, Isaac said he contacted several members of Congress, who did not respond. At that point, his intermediary reached out to Rudy Giuliani’s attorney, Robert Costello.”

            2. According to CBS News, “What we know — and don’t know — about Hunter Biden’s alleged laptop”:

            “MacIsaac told CBS News he first turned over the hard drive to the FBI last December during the president’s impeachment, and provided a copy of its contents to Costello after becoming frustrated by the Senate trial in January. MacIsaac refused to provide key details about his interactions with Giuliani.”

            “Giuliani told CBS News on Wednesday that MacIsaac had reached out to Costello “around the time of the impeachment hearings,” and that he has neither met nor spoken to him personally.”

            So, CBS’ timeline can be read as being compatible with Fox News’ timeline. But it also implies that he contacted Costello “around the time” of the impeachment hearings; that would have given Costello the opportunity to bring it up during the impeachment trial.

            3. According to New York Times, “Allegation on Biden Prompts Pushback From Social Media Companies”:

            “In an interview Wednesday afternoon, Mr. Costello said that someone he described as ‘a source’ had sent an email to one of Mr. Giuliani’s companies in September, adding that he had damaging information on Hunter Biden. (Although Mr. Costello declined to identify the source, his description suggested it was the store owner.)

            “Mr. Costello said that he had called the person, who agreed to send him the hard drive by overnight shipping. In the weeks that followed, Mr. Costello examined its contents, which he said contained text messages, photos, videos and emails.”

            The articles isn’t explicit whether it is referring to September 2019 or September 2020. If you had no other context, it would seem to refer to September 2020, but that contradicts the Fox News and CBS News timelines above, which say that Costello contacted Costello earlier.

            Besides Giuliani and Costello, Mac Isaac tried to reach out to others: “After the documents failed to emerge in the Trump impeachment hearings, the source grew agitated and began reaching out to lawmakers who failed to return his messages, Mr. Costello said. It’s unclear why it would take over nine months, however, for the person to reach Mr. Giuliani in September.”

            That implies September 2020.

            4. According to CNN:

            “Giuliani’s own attorney, Robert Costello, told CNN on Wednesday he received a tip from the person in the Delaware computer shop via an email to one of Giuliani’s company addresses in late August. Costello said this person gave him a copy of the hard drive in late August or early September, which Costello then began sifting through.”

            This also implies September 2020, which also contradicts the Fox News and CBS News stories.

          3. I was wrong about this statement, by the way. What I had actually seen was a statement from Giuliani saying that Costello was contacted in September, but it was referring to September 2020 (maybe — see my comment below about conflicting timelines).

            1. “I was wrong ”

              I told you that yesterday.

          4. Another odd thing about the story is that Hunter Biden lived in the Hollywood Hills, not Delaware, at that time.

            1. stop spamming in a weak effort to disguise the fact that you were completely wrong please

              1. Telling that you consider information you don’t like to be spam.

            2. To be more correct, he lived in Los Angeles area the entirely of 2019, but in the Hollywood Hills from June – December 2019.

      3. TWK…To what end? = why didn’t they mention it during the impeachment proceedings?

        It would not have stopped the House.

        1. The Senate trial came after the hearings. That would have been the perfect time to bring the evidence up, if they had it then. See my comment about conflicting timelines above.

          1. He was never going to be impeached by the Senate, wasting oppo on something you will win anyway makes no sense.

  7. That’s one give away. Not the most egregious, though. I’ll let Libertarian candidate Jo Jorgensen State it, because no one at Reason would dare state the obvious:

    “The federal government gives about $15 billion annually to oil and coal companies. And this doesn’t even include the cheap public land leases that disproportionately go to these companies. This is nothing but corporate welfare.”

    And she’s right. That doesn’t even include the land give away.

    https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/370529-trumps-looming-scandal-of-fossil-fuel-subsidies-on-federal-lands

    1. Careful here! If you start pointing out the incestuous nature of the relationship between Big Government and Big Business, well, there’s a name for a political/economic system whereby the means of production are allowed to be privately owned but only insofar as they serve the interests of the State and we don’t want to go accusing anybody of fostering such a system.

    2. “The federal government gives about $15 billion annually to oil and coal companies. And this doesn’t even include the cheap public land leases that disproportionately go to these companies. This is nothing but corporate welfare.”

      Your and her cite fell off, which is no great surprise.
      BTW, gonna tell us how the magic words ‘fight climate change’ make those nasty wild fires go away? We’re waiting.
      Oh, and when is the greeny rapture, oh, watermelon-priest?

    3. There is a difference between subsidies and tax breaks. One involves robbing Peter to pay Paul, the other involves letting Paul keep more of his own money. Can you guess which is which?

      1. I’ll let Libertarian candidate for President Jo Jorgensen tell you what energy gets in her very next sentence:

        “I will work with Congress to end all energy SUBSIDIES and level the playing field.”

        Capitalization mine, so you can read it without your spectacles. But I’m sure Libertarian candidate for President Jo Jorgensen s waiting with bated breath to be educated by sarcasmic…do let her know!

        Best,
        Jack

        1. Big Oil isn’t getting subsidies. They get tax breaks. Subsidies go to solar, wind, electric cars and such. You know, the stuff that can’t compete on a level playing field.

          1. Here’s Jo’s website:

            https://jo20.com/

            Please, let her know! Can’t believe she missed it, eh?

            1. There is no real difference to me. If you give a tax break to Target but not the K Mart across the street you are giving Target an unfair advantage.
              You are also losing that revenue which the taxpayer will ultimately pay for since you have not lowered spending.

              If you give Target a subsidy you are doing the same thing and the taxpayer gets the bill either way.

              The taxpayer can only win in the end if you cut spending and lower tax rates across the board accordingly which is exactly what Jo, and only Jo is advocating.

              So Jo has it right. She tends to put things in simple terms which is good.

              1. Yes. You have to give her credit…she tries her best to let people know where she stands. For me, I’m disappointed that she avoids even mentioning climate change. But around here, I’d be an army of one.

                Don’t know where you live, but here in NY it’s one great day! Hope you’re having one!

              2. I agree with your last point Echospinner….I like Jo Jorgensen because she has a great ability to distill her policies and arguments into a few sentences. In terms of being able to articulate a coherent and logical argument, she is the best LP candidate I have seen in a long, long time.

                She gets my vote. The LP candidate has no chance to win the electoral votes of the People’s Republic of NJ, but Jo gets my vote. The principles matter. And besides…after the last 3.5 years, I have come to the conclusion that I will never, ever vote for a Team D candidate to any elective office.

                Going forward, I can’t say which party candidate I will vote affirmatively for. But I do know who I will vote against: all Team D candidates. The Team D behavior we saw with Bush, then under Obama, and now against POTUS Trump has done it.

              3. What tax breaks does oil and gas have access to that solar and wind do not?

          2. ^Exactly

      2. Subsidies to one group mean raising taxes on others to pay for them. Tax breaks for one group mean other taxes must be raised to maintain the same total taxes.

        There is no difference. Tax favoritism, subsidy favoritism, same corruption.

        1. Um, no. We’re talking about the federal government here. What you say would be true if they balanced their budget. But they don’t. They just put the difference on the tab.

          1. That is also true but that will catch up to us eventually.

            1. I figure the federal government will eventually go the way of the Soviet Union, taking the dollar with it. But money is not wealth. So wealth will still have value, even if the money doesn’t. States will become autonomous countries, like the old Soviet states did.

              And life will go on for the average Joe.

              1. I plan to spend my later years sitting at the beach bar drinking rum, smoking cigars, eating shrimp and oysters and watching the pretty scenery walking by.

                So I probably won’t be around for that anyway.

                1. That’s it! You broke the code!

        2. This is all arguing about vague shit. Unless someone pulls up an actual article saying where these “subsidies” come from, I won’t believe it.

          I have seen people claim that it is a subsidy when a company depreciates capital from their income statement. I have seen them claim subsidies are paying for the insurance of their employees.

          It is all bullshit until someone provides the numbers.

      3. By the way, do note that I called it a give away, not a subsidy. Jo calls it a subsidy. Regardless, both are in fact a give away.

        But thanks for bringing up tax relief. If you click on the authors links they mention the give away to farmers from the Covid relief bill. Well, not just farmers took advantage of Covid relief money. Count oil in as well. Here’s one example of millions going to one company that sure looks like they wouldn’t deserve it, no?

        “Texas-based Battalion Oil, which recently changed its name from Halcón, has taken a $2.2m coronavirus relief loan, after going bankrupt twice within the last four years and facing accusations of excessive spending on an executive pay, private planes and luxury vehicles.”

        https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/14/us-oil-gas-companies-coronavirus-relief-loan-ppp

        I’m glad at least one libertarian sees through the scam to oil. Jo, not you.

        1. Relief loans are a different matter.

          1. Have some fun out there today! It’s a great day here!

            Best,
            Jack

            1. If the interest covers the govt cost plus a small vig what’s the problem?

              I mean, I know you realoze you were wrong which is why you ran, but I also know you hate when someone makes you look stupid and right now you look very stupid.

              1. Again, here’s Libertarian Jo’s website:

                https://jo20.com/

                Now there’s two who will let her know she’s completely wrong on oil companies being welfare queens!

                Best,
                Jack

                1. You don’t like being wrong which is why you didn’t answer.

                  “I mean, I know you realize you were wrong which is why you ran, but I also know you hate when someone makes you look stupid and right now you look very stupid.”

                  1. What a day today, right? Beautiful outside! You get the last word! Wait…I just did. Go for it! I know it’s important to you! Enjoy!

                    1. You don’t like being wrong which is why you didn’t answer.

                      “I mean, I know you realize you were wrong which is why you ran, but I also know you hate when someone makes you look stupid and right now you look very stupid.”

    4. Hey Shreek!

  8. Where is my pony dammit! They promised me a pony!

    1. Up your ass, along with your head.

    1. Dictionaries and encyclopedias aren’t poor little Boehm’s friend.

      Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or “inconvenient.”[2][3][4] Censorship can be conducted by governments,[5] private institutions, and other controlling bodies.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship

    2. Boehm’s posted a lot of stupid shit before, but that’s pants-on-head retarded.

      1. It’s funny that ENBitch brags about muting people in the comments.

    3. Facebook temporarily reduces level of dissemination (doesn’t even completely block) story while fact checking it. Twitter blocks story.

      Story gets even more attention, proving that there are umpteen other ways for information to spread besides Facebook and Twitter.

      1. You run cover, proving you’re a lying crypto-marxist.

      2. What is your point?

        1. That try as they might to “censor” the news, Facebook and Twitter don’t have enough control to actually do it.

          1. Strawman

            1. How so?

  9. Tariffs are a foreign policy tool. To force the Chinese to change their malignant behavior, POTUS Trump correctly applied tariffs. They remain in place. This article misses the mark by failing to point out that tariffs are a tool of foreign policy.

    1. If making the cost of living more expensive for Americans is a tool of foreign policy then we need a new president.

      1. Your citation showing increased COL due to tariffs and this administration’s foreign policy is missing.

        1. Woah, did you just ask someone for a cite? That’s apparently beyond the pale here.

          1. Being an idiot isn’t though, idiot.

          2. Well TWK, CPI doesn’t show higher cost, does it? I mean, we have an inflation rate ~1.5%, lower than the historical average. If these tariffs were increasing the COL, we would see this in the CPI number. We don’t.

            But that aside fails to address my point. Tariffs are a tool of foreign, not economic policy. Lannekin fails to make this point, and it is an important one.

          1. So, nothing but an ad hominem attack? With no evidence but your assertion, the conclusion most folks will arrive at is that you are lying about increased COL due to foreign policy. Tariffs may be a poor policy, but you have yet to prove your argument. And, try humor, your denigration needs work. A lot of fucking work.

        2. “Your citation showing increased COL due to tariffs and this administration’s foreign policy is missing.”

          I went to buy a grill shortly after the steel tariffs went into effect. The price of my grill went up by $1500. The tariffs absolutely increased my cost of living.

        3. I haven’t noticed my COL increase. I do like to bitch, though.

          Everything is so terrible and unfair. Haha.

    2. They seem to be working splendidly. Chinese are really behaving now.

      It is foolish to think that a giant like China is going to start playing nice because of tariffs.

      1. Echospinner has wisdom which is far too advanced for TrumpTards. BOTH sides lose in pissing contests of ANY kind! Trump’s trade wars have done NOTHING for the Uighurs, Tibetans, or the people of Hong Kong! Prove otherwise, TrumpTards!

        Endless strings of grade-school insults prove NOTHING other than your lack of intelligence, thoughtfulness, benevolence, and wisdom, TrumpTards!

    3. US GDP growth rate 2019 was 2.3%

      China GDP growth rate was 6.1%

      Yup we are killing them.

      They kept none of what they agreed to. Trump made it very clear why he started this. He thinks trade deficits are bad and technology was being stolen. There is some truth in the latter but tariffs on goods haven’t done a damn thing about it.

      Meanwhile China does whatever it wants. They have plenty of other customers to trade with. They are more aggressive than ever and oppress internally as much as they wish.

      If it is a tool it is a stupid one.

      To the Chinese we are upstart barbarians run by a fool. Even if Trump wins they will just wait it out until they have conditions more to their advantage.

      1. Maybe an “incident” in the Taiwan Straits or the, what do you call them, Spratly Islands?

        1. Yup. They are pushing the maritime boundary there and the land border with India. They are also pursuing some Islands near Japan they both claim which have military value.

          1. The Chinese Communists are planning to take Taiwan next.

            1. Since 1945.

              1. Yes.

                What differs now (1945 vs 2020) is the size, lethality and sophistication of China’s military. I would also note that in the last year, China has conducted no less than four drills where they operate battle groups independently in completely different littoral areas. That is very, very significant. China has also conducted multiple amphibious drills, coordinated with massive air drops.

                Echospinner, China is going to invade Taiwan. We are running out of time.

  10. Well don’t worry, Biden crime inc will send the squad over to negotiate, resulting in a “new” trade deal and lining Biden’s and family’s pockets with more graft money. And you voted for him.

    Considered yourself schooled, lefties.

    1. This will be the first presidential election where I choose not to vote. Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich. I just can’t do it. I’m done with voting against the greater of two evils. And let me tell you what a relief it is. Seriously. No election stress at all. None.

      1. I’m sure you’ll find someone who cares if you keep up the attention seeking behavior.

        1. Talk about missing the point.

          1. Yes it appears you did miss it.

            1. Why don’t you just say “I’m rubber and you’re glue!” It would be the exact same thing.

              1. Please keep proving my point.

        2. I care.

          1. Good to know that I was correct.

  11. Looks like Tulpa is having fun with his crusty socks again. Ew.

    1. “Ew”

      Sorry you’re still upset and pretending you didn’t ask me out and I shot you down.

      “socks”

      Bad news bro those are actually all different people who think you’re trash.

      1. Sarcasmic is deeply invested in this place, and it becomes obvious when you read his posts. Which, I have to be honest is sort of inexplicable because he’s never been anything but a troll for the decade plus that he’s posted here. No one thinks his commentary is witty or insightful, and he’s been forced to typecast himself into a 12 year old girl level of pseudo-sarcastic but genuinely upset trolling due to a lack of intelligence and erudition.

        1. Thanks for that astute psychoanalysis. It amazes me how many mind readers there are on this site. People literally argue with me about what I think! That’s so amazing! They like know my mind better than myself! They’re so brilliant!

          1. “12 year old girl level of pseudo-sarcastic but genuinely upset trolling”

            “sarcasmic
            October.17.2020 at 2:01 pm
            Thanks for that astute psychoanalysis. It amazes me how many mind readers there are on this site. People literally argue with me about what I think! That’s so amazing! They like know my mind better than myself! They’re so brilliant!”

            I rest my case.

            1. Too funny. But if thinking I’m upset gets you off, jerk away.

              1. Three minute interval betwewen his post and yours but you’re not upset.

              2. Repeatedly and angrily yelling that you’re not deeply upset is totally working sarcasmic.

        2. All I know is that since he asked me out and I crushed his sad romantic efforts the guy has lost his fucking mind.

          1. I think I lost my mind before I tried to treat you like a human being. No sane person would do that.

            1. See? He tries to get with me and now it’s all sour grapes.

              He can’t stop.

  12. OT – Thank goodness for the UK press for letting us know what’s going on in the USA.

    It seems a “former” English politician was among the Facebook honchos who censored the Hunter Biden story.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8846087/Nick-Clegg-involved-Facebooks-decision-hush-story-Joe-Bidens-son.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK

  13. It seems the grounds for censoring the Hunter story are:

    -We don’t know if it’s true but

    -We know it discloses confidential information!

    1. It was only the first point.

      1. I’ve actually seen the “privacy/hacking” argument used.

      2. So we’re the Russia hoax and the Trump tax hit piece but that didn’t matter. The grounds for this censorship is it makes Biden look bad.

        1. Makes Biden look bad to alumni of the Mississippi School for the Blind? Who else wasn’t already there?

  14. “The government is good at one thing. It knows how to break your legs, and then hand you a crutch and say, ‘See if it weren’t for the government, you wouldn’t be able to walk’.” ~ Harry Browne

    Trump broke farmers legs with his anti-trade executive actions. Now he is handing them crutches and saying “See if it weren’t for Trump, you wouldn’t be able to walk.”

    Trumpism is Fascism rebranded by and for those who have never read a book.

    1. ^Now there’s some B.S. “Anti-trade” came along when progressives took over Gov-Power and taxed the living tar out of intercontinental trade. You really want to toot a horn about a 5% foreign-exchange tariff when inner-trade is barking the walls of 50%? That’s wildly cherry-picking the narrative.

      When it comes to Tariffs that charge is by-option. You don’t pay tariff’s on intercontinental trades it’s just the “favored” policy wise way in today’s “goodies for foreigners” political environment.

    2. It shouldn’t go unnoticed how integral it is to fascism to rebrand itself, presumably because of all the death and horror. Far-right parties the world over call themselves all sorts of things. It’s why people assume the Nazis were meaningfully socialist because they called themselves that, and how today they refer to themselves, laughably, as “classical liberals.”

      1. Tony is right on this one point. In fact, Republican fascists and Democrat communists only speak truly when describing each other. I regard both as the same thing, to be fought to the death. But inside their socialist Venn Diagram circle, they imagine ineffable differences they go on to exaggerate… to the puzzlement of those OUTSIDE that bubble. They are just as puzzled that non-socialists can conceive of a non-fascist, non-communist political system, just not to the point of actually reading LP platforms.

        1. Next on the lefty buffoonery list; Convincing the world they are no different than the right.

  15. Trump had so much energy that he wanted to kiss all the guys. You think Regeneron and Resdemivir were fake and he might have had the REAL cure for the rona?

    https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/10/15/maduro-debuts-venezuelas-coronavirus-cures-miracle-droplets-rectal-ozone-therapy/

  16. “The U.S. Department of Agriculture simply sent [the farmer] a check to compensate him for the low prices resulting from the trade war,
    Does not compute, and the linked piece does not explain.

  17. Abolish the USDA!!!! All the farmers I know hate them anyways and it’s just stupidity that puts city-slickers in control of agriculture.

  18. OT – Did you know that the plural of “dominatrix” is “dominatrices,” as in “Priest arrested for having threesome with corset-wearing dominatrices on church altar”?

    https://nypost.com/2020/10/08/priest-arrested-for-having-threesome-with-corset-wearing-dominatrices-on-church-altar/

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  22. “The Feds Have Doled Out Record Farm Subsidies To Save Trump’s Campaign”

    THE REALITY IS THAT THE RECORD SUBSIDES ARE TO SAVE THE FARMERS. The author of this piece clearly is a warped Democrat, fully stuck on stupid.

    1. Not a libertarian position!

    2. Farms don’t need “saved” anymore than the “environment” needs “saved” both are just pathetic excuses to STEAL from “those” people.

  23. A new low for reason. This is unabashed campaign propaganda.

  24. Paying MAGA farmers not to grow grain? Would be just dandy if the country subsidized its way into a pandemic food shortage, wouldn’t it?

    1. MAGA farmers don’t want your B.S. subsidies. In fact; Republicans are far more against them than Democrats.

  25. Tariff whiners evade two facts: below 10% is a revenue tariff, a nonintrusive way to fund the federal government without agents of a communist manifesto income tax confiscating your car and breaking down doors. Rates of 20% and 30%,as in the Morrill tariff of May 1860, are protective walls whereby northern industries exploit southern plantations. Morrill fiercely resisted the income tax foisted on the Cleveland Administration after the Populist Party got 9% of the vote. The 1848 communist manifesto individual income tax is the greater evil that has to go. The tariff is the ‘Murrican fallback method of funding a noninterventionist government.

  26. How many votes do large agri-business companies have?

    Seems like more of a scheme to hand out lots of cash to large companies while buying the votes of a few small producers who were probably going to vote for Trump anyway.

    How does Trump have the discretion to do this? Are the laws of the subsidy programs so broadly written that Trump can unilaterally throw cash around?

    1. The more this nation pretends it doesn’t have a Supreme Law over government the more monarchy-mob-rule/partisanship(i.e. democratic monarchy) we’ll become.

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  28. Blame China. The country’s regime has promised numerous times to allow American goods to be imported into the Middle Kingdom and even lower tariffs on our imports only to later reneg. While I wish there was another way, ultimately, this is China’s fault for their lies and manipulations.

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  32. No subsidies to any industry or company, no bailouts for banks or any private company, no money to private non-profits, limited foreign aid, flat tax on everyone, eliminate government programs that don’t show results, eliminate agencies we don’t need and don’t work.

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