Election 2020

Afraid of Foreign Election Meddling? Worry More About America's Sick Political Culture.

That so many Americans believe Biden and Trump are foreign-backed puppets is less testimony to the effectiveness of overseas scheming than to our own political culture.

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For a people famously disinterested in events outside their own borders, Americans offer up a lot of rent-free space in their minds to foreign political operatives. Liberals fret that Russians plot nefarious schemes to support President Donald Trump's reelection effort, while conservatives worry that Chinese and Ukrainian energy companies are funneling funds to Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden through his son.

That foreign players have fiddled with U.S. elections in recent years is no revelation, though it seems unlikely that the efforts had much impact. That so many Americans find it believable that major presidential candidates are foreign-backed puppets is less testimony to the effectiveness of overseas scheming than to the fraught nature of U.S. political culture.

In an already volatile political climate, The New York Times recently reported that "President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia is most likely continuing to approve and direct interference operations aimed at raising President Trump's re-election chances, a recent C.I.A. analysis concluded." That squares with warnings from RAND Corporation that "Russia might try again to manipulate and divide U.S. voters through social media."

Both analyses are just a hair more than speculative—the CIA has "moderate confidence" in its findings—but they follow up on reports of Russian dirty tricks in the 2016 election involving hacked emails released through Wikileaks and incendiary social media posts from front groups that were supposed to set Americans against one another (more than they already are, that is).

For anybody at this late date who doesn't have at least a rough familiarity with the shenanigans, they're covered in Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller's report on the subject. While Mueller's team uncovered a remarkable amount of political sleaziness and the tacit approval of the dirty tricks campaign by the Trump team, "ultimately, the investigation did not establish that the Campaign coordinated or conspired with the Russian government in its election-interference activities."

That means Russia's efforts were covert (not causally linked to the source) and carried out without the active participation of a contender for office. That, according to the University of Hong Kong's Dov Levin, who studies such interventions, is the sort of fiddling that has a low likelihood of having an impact.

"Without the domestic actor's cooperation in providing information (or 'local knowledge') about the electorate's preferences and the best ways to intervene in its favor, the great power will usually see its chances of succeeding as too low to justify an electoral intervention," he wrote in a 2016 paper published in International Studies Quarterly. Likewise, "a covert intervention carries far lower chances of a backlash due to the inherent secrecy in the provision of the electoral aid. However, the lower risk comes with reduced effectiveness."

By contrast, coordinating with a party and openly endorsing its candidate—or threatening to, for example, cut aid if a disfavored candidate wins—carries more risks but a higher chance of success.

That's not to say that covert operations are unknown—they make up the majority of the 117 electoral interventions by the U.S. and the U.S.S.R./Russia between 1946 and 2000 that Levin studied (yes, America has been a major offender when it comes to sticking its nose into other people's elections). But covert operations still require a significant commitment, such as the millions of dollars the U.S. funneled to a Thai political party for that country's 1969 elections.

By comparison, email leaks and hundreds of thousands of dollars for Twitter and Facebook political ads, even when coordinated by Russia's modestly funded Internet Research Agency, is awfully low-rent. The campaign seems crafted less to affect the U.S. election than to let the officials of post-Cold War Russia flex atrophied muscles and—after the efforts were disclosed—convince the Russian public that their country is still an international player.

That same perspective needs to be applied to New York Post reports of Ukrainian and Chinese business executives paying Hunter Biden for access to his presidential-hopeful father. If verified, the correspondence published by the Post would confirm suspicions that Hunter Biden's main asset through his many sketchy business dealings over the years has been his last name.

But a politician's relative peddling promises of access is evidence of garden-variety corruption of the sort that plagues politics in good times and bad. It's not confirmation of accusations that the politician is a foreign asset and "the Chinese Communist Party's candidate for president," as a very briefly serving former acting U.S. Attorney General alleges.

Which is to say there's no proof that Biden is a willing participant in foreign political intervention covert, overt, or any other sort.

What we're seeing through all of this is less evidence that foreigners are gaming American elections in any serious way than that Americans have eroded their own political culture. More to the point, too many of us now question the decency and the legitimacy of political opponents.

Fifty-five percent of Republicans and 44 percent of Democrats say the party opposing their own is "not just worse for politics—they are downright evil," according to a 2019 YouGov survey. Thirty-four percent of Republicans and 27 percent of Democrats say the other party "lack the traits to be considered fully human—they behave like animals."

"We find pronounced willingness by both Democrats and Republicans to dehumanize members of the out-party," four political scientists noted in a 2019 paper published in Political Behavior. "By depriving political opponents, to even a small extent, of the complex thoughts and scruples we often associate with humanity, we make them easier to stereotype and we may more readily ascribe simpler, more base, and even nefarious, motivations to them."

As a result, too many of us don't just decline to vote for candidates we don't like, or simply disagree with their supporters. Instead, those "others" must be utterly malevolent, dangerous, and unworthy of respect, with "base, and even nefarious, motivations" that may well include being willing servants of sinister foreign masters.

Foreign governments may try to exploit America's political fractures. They may do so to actually shift the outcomes of our elections or to play to the audience at home. But Americans can only blame themselves for turning a centuries-old democracy into a playground for low-budget dirty tricks.

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  1. Which is to say there’s no proof that Biden is a willing participant in foreign political intervention covert, overt, or any other sort.

    Joe is taking a 50% kickback from Hunter’s overseas ‘deals’, stop with the “both sides” bullshit.

    1. What he means by “there’s no proof” is that as long as a lot of people agree to not look at the truth and not allow anyone else to share it, it isn’t the truth.

      Plus that’s all debunked, obviously. We know it’s debunked because no one is allowed to talk about how it got debunked.

      1. Just like electoral fraud

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      2. We chose truth over facts.
        J Biden

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    3. Yeah, with that burden of proof to surmount James Fields should have been acquitted and all charges dropped on the cops who arrested George Floyd.

      Not saying that’s necessarily correct, but proof has become very who – whom.

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    6. Not to mention that during a Council on Foreign Relations discussion on January 23, 2018, Joe Biden bragged about how he threatened to withhold $1 billion in U.S. loans as a pressure tactic to force Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko to immediately fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oesl2RXpfPQ
      No, Biden’s not the least bit corrupt…. Nothing to see here; move along.

    7. You have zero proof of any of that, Republicans have combed over it with a fine toothed comb as have the FBI. You are welcome to keep believing qanon and that lizard men are actually at the top eating human children for sustenance and pulling the strings. Good job citizen Joe, you stay on top of that and get back with us when you find the Queen’s nest.

      1. As YOU prove Gruber’s point

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      1. So, you’re saying it’s like the Russian collusion conspiracy theory?

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    11. There are multiple reports that Hunter Biden’s computer also contains video of him smoking crack and having sex with underaged girls (most likely Ukrainian).
      The F.B.I. has this laptop. If these reports are true and the laptop goes contain images of the former VP’s son having sex with underaged girls the F.B.I. being a law enforcement entity, should at the very least make a statement about the existence/validity of these videos.

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  2. More to the point, too many of us now question the decency and the legitimacy of political opponents.

    Fifty-five percent of Republicans and 44 percent of Democrats say the party opposing their own is “not just worse for politics—they are downright evil,” according to a 2019 YouGov survey. Thirty-four percent of Republicans and 27 percent of Democrats say the other party “lack the traits to be considered fully human—they behave like animals.”

    I believe this is what is known as a “Libertarian moment”. Rather than bemoaning the fact that distrust of politicians and politics in general is at all-time highs, we should be celebrating the fact that so many people have had the scales fall from their eyes and they now recognize how poisonous this all is.

    1. It makes more sense when you understand that libertarians are Marxists whose only objective in life is advancing Marxism.

      1. I have to agree that libertarians are Martians whose only objective in life is advancing Martianism.

        1. Right on cue comes the Stalin apologist. Thanks for chiming in cunt! Want to offer a fistfight and then pussy out like a little bitch again?

          1. We martians prefer mind control over violence. See. It is working.

            1. If that’s what you call passive aggressive resentment manifesting as slavish apologetics for totalitarian leftists, sure

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      2. Ideal libertarians do seem to be progressing that route. But that is the problem of idealism on all forms, it requires an authoritarian view of citizens to work. It can’t have contradictions or disagreements for an ideal system to work, people must act in similar manner.

        1. Ideals are like a light house to help navigate in what you know are treacherous waters and uncertainty. Everyone knows that people are what they are. Living with the NAP it is not possible to be perfect but without some sort of moral code or set of values it all becomes a pointless war against ourselves.

          In politics today there are no ideals. There is only the raw desire for power. There is nothing to balance that out.

          1. The ideals being pushed today are not lighthouses but blue prints. The one size fits all mentality of globalism as an example. The undertook are in place to try to drive citizens and society in one uniform direction, which is why we see an increase in authoritarian beliefs. Covid just brought this out more clearly, yet half of society decided to run with it as proof their politics are the one true politics.

            1. Loosen the strap on your tinfoil hat, bub. It’s cutting off the circulation to your brain cell.

              1. Russia stealing the election with $150,000 in cheesy Facebook ads isn’t at all nutty, but the Davos crowd trying to amass more political clout is somehow loony toons.

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        2. this comment made me think that idealistic authoritarians are like a guy with a gambling addiction willing to throw his whole life away on that one redemptive gamble that will solve all his problems but instead dooms him and his family to poverty, misery and probably suicide.

          1. You think elected officials determine your life? I have lived through many presidencies. They hardly affected me at all. The local mayor has more effect on my life because someone needs to deal with the traffic problem on Rt. 8.

            1. tell that to the people of Venezuela

              1. It can’t happen here.

        3. Yes thanks to the Marxist views of the editor. Not sure why and where Nick made the turn to Progressive/Socialism then to Marxism but he does have a loyal following of child – like Lemmings who are willing to dance into the abyss of authoritative leadership under the guise of some sort of phony libertarian ideology as long as they promise heroin and cocaine shops on every corner and unbridled lost cost labor by means of open borders and no immigration laws.

      3. Yes, waiter, I would like to have some samples of whatever mushrooms that guy over there spouting bullshit in the corner is having.

        1. You obviously had to much already …. but Gruber luvs you anyhow

    2. The scales haven’t fallen from their eyes though. I don’t think there’s any widespread distrust of government in general, which is what libertarians would hope for. Instead, people don’t trust the government ONLY when the Other Guys are in charge. They have no problems with the scale or power of government (if anything it isn’t powerful enough!), they just don’t want the Other Guy at the steering wheel.

      This isn’t a recipe for smaller government, it’s a recipe for a strongman to come along and conduct a purge. Once you accept that your opposition isn’t human it opens the doors to all kinds of behaviors that would normally be completely off the table.

    3. unfortunately, the animosity is not fueled by enlightenment, it is pure tribalism. them seeing evil in the other is reinforcing their commitment to their own team.

  3. The 4 year long fever dream of the left, Reason and Marxists (redundant) regarding Trump being a Russian intelligence asset based on an oppo document is exactly equivalent to the explicit, proven, documented-on-motherfucking-video corruption of Biden and his entire family. Yessiree.

    You know what would be interested you fucking mendacious hypocrite pieces of shit? Reconcile your pimping of the Russia hoax with the fact that you also pimp Trump as a xenophobic nationalist trade warrior turning Fortress America into a fascist walled garden?

    1. Obama’s FBI used a bogus file of fiction bought by Hillary’s campaign to mislead a judge so it could spy on the nominee for the other party and then pressure a probe after GOP victory, but this isn’t a scandal about the corruption of Democrats or DOJ because shut up bot.

      Chuck Colson of Watergate fame was sentenced to prison for possessing a single FBI file on a political rival.
      What’s the penalty for a President employing the Director of the FBI, the Deputy Director of the FBI, the Chief of the Counterespionage Section of the FBI, the Director of the CIA, the Director of National Intelligence, and members of the Justice Department and the State Department to gather dirt on members of the opposition political party in an effort to ensure his former Secretary of State wins the Presidency?

      Apparently nothing.

      This won’t be a shocking scandal impacting democracy and undermining the rule of law for Tuccille until the moment a Republican copies it.

      1. it isnt a scandal until there is a consensus from the press that it is… just like the settled science of climate change is so because of the consensus of the scienticians

    2. I think you are on to something

    3. I can’t wait until Biden gets in there and turns the Justice department and other departments on getting at the records that Trump has been hiding for four years via his Justice Department and lawyers. Treason isn’t a defensible action and I for one will have my popcorn ready to watch the downfall.

      1. Weren’t you just accusing others of being conspiracy believing idiots?

        1. Be easy on white old fool… he got white privilege

  4. “Which is to say there’s no proof that Biden is a willing participant in foreign political intervention covert, overt, or any other sort.”

    Biden readily admitted to orchestrating the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor investigating a notoriously corrupt energy company on whose board his son Hunter sat as a director despite having absolutely no qualifications for the position.

    That this may also be grift does not mean it is not also foreign political intervention.

    Biden literally admitted to it.

    How is there no proof?

    1. How is there no proof?

      Because LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU LALALALALALALALALALALALALALALA

      1. Proof can only be spoken under the cone of silence.

    2. How is there no proof?

      There’s no proof until a notary of White Knight’s choice stamps the necessary documents.

  5. We should be most worried about the corrupt partisan media that exists here that encompasses even libertarian sites only hiring left leaning people.

    1. I find it interesting how some people are putting party first. Individual principles should change according to the party’s wishes. Fealty to the party over you individual beliefs is a cornerstone of communism.

      In 2016 democrats said it is the Senate’s primary job to fill a SCOTUS vacancy. I agreed. In 2020, I still agree but democrats have abandoned the idea.

      1. My view remains unchanged as well. I already knew that the constitution required 2 acts to confirm a judge. I had also investigated the history of ussc nominations and new they regularly occurred in election years and that the chance they were confirmed relied on a friendly senate. This is well documented but seems to be unknown to all the new political twits that now exist. The media pushed the argument from ignorance they usually do instead of doing their jobs. The majority of the major networks have a cross over with democratic campaigns and that bias is obvious and known.

        The entire defense of Scully’s hacked claims by the likes of Chris Wallace further demonstrates this bias. Everyone knew he wasn’t fucking hacked… yet that story was pushed hard.

        And reasons defense of corporate censorship yesterday to defend biden was way out of line. Even the atlantic knew that was bad.

        1. “”The majority of the major networks have a cross over with democratic campaigns and that bias is obvious and known. “”

          A lot of networks personalities have wiki pages that show they worked in some capacity with a democrat campaign in the past.

        2. And so many journos rushed to defend him.

          So not only does HE have little credibility, his defenders also sacrificed what little they had as well.

          I don’t think Scully should be punished. But I do not see how he can serve as a “journalist” any longer. And we need a MASSIVE change in the Debate Commission. Insane to have ALL members opposing one candidate.

      2. Is it any surprise? … there is a difference albeit small between the parties. Dems do march in lockstep when it comes to all their progressive policies. They are in fact evil for this reason. They are drooling at the chance to install a one party system and create the ultimate Orwellian nightmare. Reason / Nick seems to be more than a willing accomplice.

    2. All media, and all institutions with power, acting as partisan agents of the left and exercising that power to get the left more power means that we should root for the left because they will totes deliver smaller, more accountable government and greater liberty.

      1. Or how in a prior Trump town hall, Biden supporters were mislabelled as “undecided”

        1. I’ve never seen so many unfortunate accidents occur, and all in the same direction. Something fuckey is happening with the law of probability right now. We need a physicist or a statistician, stat.

  6. Is Biden as VP putting US foreign policy up for sale and using his son as a bag man foreign intervention? It would seem that way to me.

    1. Even if you ignore that, he’s closer to being an animated plank of wood than a real boy.

      1. Not even a very well animated plank of wood at that. They keep having trouble getting his mouth to match the words on the telelprompter.

      2. He really started looking bad at the end of the town hall last night. This was even with many many breaks, every 12 minutes at a minimum. By the end he was tired and confused.

      3. He gets that from his dad, former Senator Leghorn Foghorn.

    2. It isnt just foreigner companies. He wasn’t known as the senator from MBNA for nothing.

    3. “…Is Biden as VP putting US foreign policy up for sale and using his son as a bag man foreign intervention?..”

      Hunter seems to be pimping for dear ‘ol Dad, the percentage of take is yet to be discovered.
      But that scumbag kid could really be a drain on the family finances if he couldn’t peddle political access; he really has not salable skills.

    4. The answer is yes, John. It is incredible. Biden is corrupt AF.

  7. An unqualified crack smoking degenerate sat on the board of a Ukrainian energy company operated by a corrupt oligarch (and, former Ukrainian government official) while raking in millions of dollars for himself and his family during the time his father is Vice President and the point man on Ukrainian foreign relations for the United States.

    It is now being reported, after perusal of various e-mail dumps, that this Vice President was also shaking down his degenerate crackhead for a slice of the money he took in. Oh, and this Vice President also orchestrated the firing of Ukrainian prosecutor investigating the company on whose board his degenerate crackhead served in an unqualified capacity.

    Oh, and the Ukrainian oligarch is now on the run from Ukrainian authorities in a bid to evade investigation and/or prosecution for embezzlement in connection with his operation of said energy company.

    If this entire arrangement is not raising any red flags with Reason, I am not sure what it will take.

    1. “Oh, and this Vice President also orchestrated the firing of Ukrainian prosecutor investigating the company on whose board his degenerate crackhead served in an unqualified capacity.”

      Using $1,000,000,000 of taxpayer money as leverage

      1. As Tim Pool said, let’s say EVERYTHING Biden said about it is true.

        Why the hell is the US using OUR money to do the dirty work for the EU? How is it any of our business one way or the other?

        1. Even more absurd is the notion that, if we believe Biden’s version of events, it would mean that Biden actually wanted MORE investigations and probes into Burisma. Well, if that was the case, why was Biden’s crackhead son working for a company that Biden — purportedly — wanted investigated? And, why would Biden have needed to exert leverage with a billion dollars of taxpayer money in order for the investigations to take place?

          1. And given that the investigator Biden wanted closed everything down a month later…we spent $1B to get a guy who was doing his job fired.

            Why?

            Again, if we give him total benefit of the doubt on everything.

    2. “If this entire arrangement is not raising any red flags with Reason, I am not sure what it will take.

      A Republican to do it instead. The wrong party affiliation is what makes things illegal.

    3. “If this entire arrangement is not raising any red flags with Reason, I am not sure what it will take.”

      They were more curious about the pee tape

      1. Only if Biden crosses a certain Hungarian Billionaire, who has been trying to destroy the USA for a dozen years, will Reason start acting like they really give a damn about this country.

    4. And BigTech going into overdrive to try and keep the signal from boosting, to the point it’s banning .gov posts.

      Initially, I thought this was just some random purple-haired Twitter IT guy in a dress sitting in his recliner and banning mentions of the story for kicks. The fact that Twitter, Facebook, and Google via YouTube all got in on the act shows that it was a coordinated, top-down effort. That shit doesn’t happen unless the upper management and board members are okay with it.

      Jack Dorsey trying to do damage control (why are niggas claiming he apologized? He didn’t say “sorry this happened” a single time) is the icing on the cake.

      Now, apparently one of Hunter’s business partners is turning states evidence and handing over his emails. Wonder how fast Google is going to nuke his email account? And how long until Hunter gets Epsteined?

      Just a quick reminder that Section 230 is precisely in danger because certain libertarians and basic bitch neocons are fine with corporatism even if it explicitly benefits one of the two largest political parties in the country during an election campaign.

    5. Only if Biden crosses a certain Hungarian Billionaire, who has been trying to destroy the USA for a dozen years, will Reason start acting like they really give a damn about this country.

  8. That so many Americans believe Biden and Trump are foreign-backed puppets is less testimony to the effectiveness of overseas scheming than to our own political culture.

    Joe Biden is a puppet regardless of whether his backers are foreign or domestic. Even with regard to his own VP, he’s as much if not more of a puppet than Gary Johnson or W ever were.

  9. In case anyone had any lingering doubts that REASON sold its soul.

    1. Well, Reason and and the spouses of Reason writers (looking at McArdle here)

      1. Yes this explains why this whole community of fake journalists are so duplicitous and just downright evil .. Reason has turned into a progressive mouth piece and no longer has any street cred as a legitimate Libertarian source.

  10. “while conservatives worry that Chinese and Ukrainian energy companies are funneling funds to Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden through his son.”

    We don’t worry you fucking tool. There’s proof. LOT’S OF IT! This is a huge false equivalancy!

    “Which is to say there’s no proof that Biden is a willing participant in foreign political intervention covert, overt, or any other sort.”

    Ummm… WHAT?!?!? Do you need him to come out ad declare it on national TV. Oh wait, he did! He bragged about getting the prosecutor fired who was investigating his son’s company.

    Are you intentionally smoke screening for the Biden Campaign or are you just that fucking stupid?

  11. I keep reading how external actors are “Meddling” in the elections…I fail to see how this is any different than Big Tech, or Fox News, or CBS news or any others who spout their objectives all day long is any difference. I assure you, there is no Russian or Chinese in the voting both with me as I pull the lever. I made that decision purely on the facts that I find important, not what anyone else has said or done. I am pretty sure that is how EVERYONE in the country votes. No need for Russians or Chinese.

  12. Liberals fret. Well, we did bust Trump trying to bribe/coerce Ukraine into announcing a criminal investigation of Biden. It’s not hard to imagine what might have happened had that scheme not been exposed and rejected.

    1. This has to be a troll account.

    2. You did nothing of the sort. Trump asked the Ukrainians to investigate the Biden corruption that we now know is real.

      Biden put US foreign policy in Ukraine and China up for sale using his deadbeat son as a bag man. The fact that Democrats impeached Trump for investigating that doesn’t make it less true.

      1. He was impeached for it. Romney voted to convict him.

        1. tap tap, nudge nudge, wink wink… Say.. No.. More!

        2. THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED!

        3. And? That is proof of what? He was impeached but not convicted by the Senate to exact. The House vote is a vote to charge him the Senate tries him. Your argument is the same as saying everyone who is ever charged with a crime is guilty.

          1. The situation would be analogous if defendants got convicted or not based on the party affiliation of the jurors.

            1. The House couldn’t provide enough evidence of actual wrong doing, enough to make people want Trump convicted. The House trial was just as partisan, if not more than the Senate. So it is like the DA charging someone because they belong to the wrong party. But we know fascists er progressives are all in favor of political prosecutions.

              1. Perhaps Tony is referring to the Clinton impeachment.

              2. I don’t know how you people can look at Donald Trump and see a guy who couldn’t possibly be corrupt. He looks like a televangelist after a particularly rough night of gay prostitute sex who didn’t bother to fix his makeup.

                It won’t matter how many credible
                Investigations and even productions there will be once he’s not president anymore, it will all just be a conspiracy to hurt him by progs to you.

                Hard to tell you’re in a cult from the inside.

                1. Tony, how does a person as stupid as you even survive? I’m surprised that you’ve even mastered breathing.

                2. I didn’t say if he was or wasn’t corrupt just that the impeachment process was entirely democratic partisanship.

                  1. Conventional wisdom is that impeaching a president over nothing is terrible for your party.

                    But you don’t actually know very much at all about why he was impeached, do you?

                    Your president was impeached and you expect me to explain it all to you. Be a citizen dude.

                    1. But you don’t actually know very much at all about why he was impeached, do you?

                      Well, we do now–he was poking around the Democrat party’s graft.

                    2. Try what? Pointing out Biden’s crackhead son was being used as a middle-man to pass cash to the party leaders?

                3. And your side has not provided my fucking evidence. A lot of induendoes that later proved to be false. The fact that you still beat the Russian drum and refuse to admit all the evidence of Biden’s corruption says a lot about you.

                  1. You can’t believe anything that comes outof Soldiermedic.
                    He’s a liar just like his Mormon family.

                    1. Orangemanbad, Sqrls.

        4. So what? please go back to your progressive enclave and share some kale with Pete and his progressively piggish wife, Megan. These so-called Libertarians are nothing more than tools of the Hungarian Nazi collaborator Billionaire.

    3. Considering he appears to have been getting kickbacks from his kids for the deals he arranged, it looks like Trump was more on the nose than we thought.

      No wonder the Demoslimes wanted him gone.

    1. If they ever start investigating blue star strategies, a liberal PR firm that is believed to help funnel money to the DNC, it will be a good thing.

    2. If you don’t care that Trump is as corrupt or much more, then you don’t care about corruption. You just care about getting your guy elected. The evidence of Trump’s corruption during the presidency is immense.

      https://www.globalwitness.org/en/campaigns/corruption-and-money-laundering/trump-deals/

      1. And that forgives Biden’s 47 years of political corruption?

      2. And you don’t give a shit when your side is corrupt, so why should we when you start crying about it?

      3. “While it is not illegal for Trump to run a private business while in office ….”

        And, we can stop reading there.

        Meanwhile, in Biden’s case, we are talking about criminal bribery under 18 U.S. Code § 201.

        The difference between grift and bribery is massive.

      4. please take your silly George Soros funded Global Witness rubbish and stick it where the sun doesn’t shine … wait a minute Maybe you and Pete’s wife ought to compare notes since she was a Senior Fellow at a Soros funded Think tank (New America). I am not sure why reason has decided to succumb to the evil world of Soros but it is disgraceful.

  13. I think people are just sick of the whole thing. The two parties have it rigged. They just trade seats every now and then.

    Libertarians could make headway but we lack the resources to get the message out. People are getting the wrong impression if you see references in the media.

    1. Libertarians have had 50 years to make headway and they are about as popular as ever. You need a massive ground machine in every state and a billion in cash to make it work. But because the media actively promotes only two candidates and honestly they only promote one the 3rd party vote is mostly a waste of time unless you live in a state where its electoral votes are not in doubt then you can protest vote. And frankly there are few Americans left who believe in small limited government.

      1. We’ve gone from a culture that was properly skeptical of power to one that demands government solutions to every conceivable problem. The people vote not for someone who would dismantle the power structure, but rather for someone who promises free shit.

        The American experiment in liberty has failed.

        1. Not that surprising once government took over education.

      2. I think it is better to hold out for your beliefs.

        In the story of Sodom and Gomorrah if there had been 10 righteous people the cities would have been spared.

        We do not have any objective way of knowing if we are right or wrong but I think the parable tells us that even a small minority can make a difference.

        1. That’s not what the story was meant to convey–it was meant to show that those cities were so wicked that no even 10 good people could be found there, and that God was justified in burning them to ash.

          Yahweh indulged Abraham in his negotiation because He knew the ultimate outcome, not because there were going to be enough good people to allow every other evil person in the city to be spared.

          1. I am Jewish. We can be creative in interpretation as much as we want. It is a cultural and religious sport.

            In my younger days I read some of the Talmud. You have 20 rabbis arguing about a single phrase and 20 different interpretations. Then comes the commentary from the medieval to the contemporary commenting on the commentary. Then you have the various factions from reform to orthodox and the Kabbalists each with a different perspective. Then the rabbi makes a sermon and comments on the comments of the commentary and throws in his own twist on it.

            Nothing wrong with your take on it. It does open itself to lots of interesting ways to think about it. The whole idea of negotiating with the lord. What does that mean. If the Lord knows the outcome why have the negotiation at all? Why does Abraham even care?

            One more thing..(my inner Colombo) although there is plenty of smiting and smoting to follow it is the last time we hear of the almighty destroying entire cities directly. You could make a whole sermon out of that.

      3. Maybe the big-L Libertarians, and quite a few of the small-L ones, need to ask themselves why so many billionaires aren’t willing to back a party that would let them keep as much of their money as possible. and let them act nearly free of consequences to the point that they’re fine with monopolistic megacorps shutting down news that hurts the political party they support.

      4. Libertarians are doomed as they have infiltrated by progressives and the message of limited government, free markets and a focus on Constitutional governance is being marginalized. They have in effect sold out .. When you have the spouse of the Assoc Editor a confirmed Soros lackey what do you expect?

    2. I do not necessarily think the problem is getting the message out, but the message itself. Freedom and non-aggression sound good but not when the price is losing access to government largesse. The people have been bought and it is going to very difficult selling them something better.

      1. Exactly this. Multiple generations have grown up being told by our education system and our media that might as well be an arm of the government that there is no such thing as “too good to be true” when it comes to government promises. The populace thinks nothing of collateral damage or unintended consequences. No matter how much evidence stares us in the face that faith in the state is misplaced and that the inevitable result of handing over the reigns of power is either incompetence or corruption, the public continues to seek our extraordinarily unextraordinary elite to coddle, arbitrate and hand-out solutions to every problem. It’s so ingrained in the psychology of normies to ask authority figures for permission or solutions or truths, no matter how laughably bad or unattainable, that I don’t think there’s anything that can bring us back. If this COVID response hasn’t taught people that the country is is run by dangerously incompetent morons, nothing will.
        No one even sees dismantling the state as a viable option anymore, all they care about is being the one controlling the doomsday machine no matter the cost.

        1. Excellent.

          Agree on all fronts. Well said.

    3. There’s no money in running for office and reducing your power.

  14. http://ace.mu.nu/archives/390832.php

    Giuliani: After Hunter Biden Story Broke, Hunter Biden’s Lawyer Contacted the Computer Repair Man and Tried to Get the Hard Drive Back
    This is from Steven Crowder’s podcast last night.

    And Giuliani says he has the email proof of the lawyer’s attempt to retrieve the hard drive.

    This is proof that the hard drive is Hunter Biden’s.

    I think we all knew that — but this is smoking gun proof.

    You cannot “get back” a hard drive you never owned.

    1. “Maybe your client should have used that $85 on picking up his laptop instead of crack.”

    2. Perhaps you should look into the convicted former associate of Hunter’s who just turned over 23,000 emails basically collaborating the Biden’s corruption.

  15. Make 6,000 dollar to 8,000 dollar A Month Online With No Prior Experience Or Skills Required. Be Your Own Boss AndChoose Your Own Work Hours.Thanks A lot Here>>> Read More.

  16. If your TEAM wins it’s the will of he people, which shall not be questioned.

    If the other TEAM wins then they cheated! Foreign meddling! Stuffing ballot boxes! Throwing away ballots! Not fair! Waaaaah!

    1. You can’t seem to talk about anything without screaming TEAM!!. Why don’t you just talk about one subject and the facts as they are? If team is so fucking bad, stop obsessing about it. Sorry but “both teams are just as bad” is just as fucking stupid and team obsessed as “my team is never wrong”. The facts and the situations vary. Sometimes one side really is in the wrong and the other right. You seem to be unable to grasp that. And that makes you just as bad as the partisan strawmen you constantly rail against.

      1. Sometimes one side really is in the wrong and the other right.

        Depends on who you ask and what your priorities are. If you value equality then Republicans and libertarians are apologists for the rich who are raping the poor. If you value liberty then those who value equality are morons who can’t learn from history. Each side truly believes the other is wrong.

        1. Using the FBI to spy on your opponent and frame him as a Russian agent is wrong no matter what your prospective. Using your son as a bag man for bribes is wrong.

        2. One side requires you to take from someone else to give to others. This is the side you quietly never call put in your rush to condemn anything right of Schumer. Youre broken.

          1. That’s all I did when Obama was in power, dumbass. You just can’t handle any criticism of your TEAM. Yet I’m broken? Yeah. Sure.

        3. Republicans/Libertarians apologist for the rich raping the poor? Sorry the rich are made up of mostly elites regardless of politics (most are Democrats btw) who really want an type of oligarchy rule. Get a life.

      2. Your problem is that you absolutely refuse to consider any point of view other than your own. That would be sympathizing with an enemy that you hold in contempt and don’t even consider to be human. And you say I’m a bad person?

        1. NO that is not my problem. I change my opinion on things all of the time. I just don’t change it to your opinion because you never seem to have an intelligent one.

          1. His opinion is whatever’s in his morning talking points email.

          2. John. You’ve changed my opinion. I thought sarcasmic actually had a few couple of statements this week before he reverted to today’s usual histrionics. So I must have been wrong.

            1. It must really suck going through life without a sense of humor. So sad.

        2. You run into threads with histrionic strawman arguments of your perceived opponents and then cry when people call you out. And it is others who don’t consider alternate points of views?

          1. I’ll even give an example from yesterday. You inferred anyone who was against the full dismantling of QI was against any QI reform. Why do you constantly lie about other peoples arguments? You have no room to complain.

    2. “”If the other TEAM wins then they cheated! Foreign meddling! Stuffing ballot boxes! Throwing away ballots! Not fair! Waaaaah!””

      I’m going to agree with sarcasmic on this one. At least with respect to this year’s election. I would be happy to be proven wrong.

    3. Out of curiosity, when was the last time Republicans claimed an election was stolen?

      And when was the last time the Democrats claimed an election they lost was legitimate? (Hint: 1988 is the year)

  17. Is it reason’s position that foreign governments would never try and influence American elections or that American politicians would never do such a thing?

    If it is the former, then reason needs to take back a whole lot of what they said regarding the Trump and Russia hoax.

    1. Russia has been interfering in American elections for decades. Left-wing anti-war, environmentalist and civil rights organizations have all received funding from Russia. Hell, in the 30’s and 40’s the American Left took orders directly from Moscow.

      Even if everything the Democrats and the media have been saying about Trump and Russia is true, the extent of Russia’s interference is some social media agitprop and revealing true information about Hillary Clinton that she would have preferred remain hidden. Nobody ever tried to dispute the authenticity of the Wikileaks DNC emails.

      “Wahhh! Russia stole the election by telling everyone the truth about our candidate!”

    2. You know John, win lose or draw, POTUS Trump has exposed just how vile and corrupt our politicians and bureaucrats truly are. Ric Grenell is right about how this is really a DC vs America problem.

      Sleepy Joe, his crackhead son, and brother Jimmy are corrupt AF.
      The MSM wears journalistic kneepads for the DNC.
      The federal bureaucracy [FBI, IRS, etc] are corrupt AF.

      I am sitting here in wonderment of it all. How has this country declined so much in 60 years (1960-2020)?

      Task #1 for a re-elected POTUS Trump must be to fire every fucking Obama appointee no matter what, and shrink the federal bureaucracy by attrition. To reduce the corruption, we must reduce the size and scope of the federal government.

  18. The owners, execs and employees of Twitter, Facebook, Google, NY Times, Wash Post, MSNBC, CNN, NPR, NBC, CBS, ABC, etc. have done far more meddling in the 2016 and 2020 presidential elections (opposing Trump, and supporting Clinton and Biden) than China, Russia and all other nations combined.

    Even Rupert Murdoch (owner of Fox News and the Wall St. Jrnl) is now campaigning for Biden, which may explain how/why the news coverage by Fox News and Wall St. Journal has been more increasingly anti Trump and pro Biden during the past several months.

    Perhaps Chris Wallace knew that Murdoch supported Biden before he moderated the so-called debate between Trump and Biden, during which Wallace made many false accusations about Trump and repeatedly interrupted him, while asking Biden softball questions questions and changing the subject every time Trump asked Biden an important question.

  19. The two party system is a failure. We need massive reform.

    1. The two party system is a massive success in that it has totally secured the power of the two parties while making it completely impossible for any other voices to be heard.

      1. Except Trump beat them, and you hate him for it

    2. The Left is the vanguard anti-White party and the Right is the catch up anti-White party. We demand that they pay back permanent White Genocide reparations.

  20. “Afraid of Foreign Election Meddling?”

    Not really.
    I’m more worried of domestic corruption and treason.
    And a little worried about pathetic journalism.

    1. I’m worried about pathetic journalist election meddling.

    2. This right here.

      I’m also worried about the fact that the would-be President’s scummy crackhead son is stupid enough to leave a laptop with videos and pictures of him in highly compromising situations, just laying around for someone to get ahold of. And also being scummy and crack addled enough to allow himself to be photographed and recorded doing compromising things when his father is the fucking VP. And also being scummy and stupid enough to be peddling influence to various corrupt oligarchs in whatever shithole dictatorship will pay him. Hunter Biden’s behavior is way beyond the usual dipshit politician’s kid doing stupid things, like the Bush girl’s drunk driving or whichever Obama girl smoked some weed at college. Hunter Biden is a massive liability and a potential national security issue. All any foreign adversary in any of those shitholes needs to do is arrest him on a prostitution or drug charge, and we have an international incident in which POTUS has to choose between letting his only living son rot in a Chinese prison camp, or sell out the US to save him.

      That’s in addition to the fact that, if true, Joe Biden enriched himself off his scummy crackhead son’s filthy influence peddling.

  21. Funny how when your TEAM wins then it’s the will of the people who are wise and cannot be questioned, but if your TEAM loses then the the people are morons who were duped by outside forces.

    1. What does that have to do with anything we are talking about?

      1. Sarc’s not criticizing, he’s making a statement of faith.

    2. “”but if your TEAM loses then the the people are morons who were duped by outside forces.””

      Leave Hillary out of this.

  22. I would say this is an example of our political culture being sick

    Hunter Biden was receiving a $10 million annual fee from a Chinese billionaire who has been accused of corruption and with whom he sought to increase the cash flow with a joint business ownership, an August 2017 email from Mr. Biden shows.

    The money was for “introductions alone,” said Mr. Biden, son of Democratic presidential nominee Joseph R. Biden. Another email to Hunter Biden from a consultant says that a 10% stake in an unnamed company will go to “the big guy?” The “big guy” was not identified.

    Hunter Biden hooked up with the billionaire, Ye Jianming, chairman of the CEFC China Energy Co. conglomerate, during his father’s vice presidency.

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/oct/15/hunter-biden-demanded-chinese-billionaire-pay-10-m/

    Sorry but “pox on both houses man” doesn’t cut it here. This is bad.

    1. This is influence peddling, pure and simple. Where the fuck is the FBI, who has had this for MONTHS?!

      Fire Christopher Wray.

  23. “But Americans can only blame themselves for turning a centuries-old democracy into a playground for low-budget dirty tricks.”

    Wrong. The existing political divide, a Hatfield/McCoy feud on steroids, emerged from decades of false narratives, education and media. The body politic simply got brainwashed, like some exhausted hostage, into accepting the noise.

    The lefty brigade started, perpetuated and continues the charade. It’s Ministry of Truth stuff, and the tactics succeed since the left owns the multi-faceted bullhorn and communications network.

    Articles like yours ( the author’s) which ground themselves on ideological spin and talking points; e.g., false equivalence and well-poisoning, both typify and exacerbate the divide.

    Look in the mirror, pal.

  24. “Liberals fret that Russians plot nefarious schemes to support President Donald Trump’s reelection effort, while conservatives worry that Chinese and Ukrainian energy companies are funneling funds to Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden through his son.”

    Oh look, a möbius strip of both-sidesism. Russia did engage in a disinformation campaign to help Trump in 2016, and the Ukraine bullshit is yet another Russian disinformation campaign. Just out that it was fed to noted meatsack Rudy Giuliani by the Russians so he’d denture his way onto FOX news and try to “but her emails” another election.

    You can acknowledge the facts of Russian election interference, available from normal journalistic sources and the United States justice departments of two administrations, while still supporting Trump, for whatever possible reason that might be.

    1. You think buying some Facebook ads is the equivalent of what Biden’s crackhead kid was up to in the Ukraine? Or are you just being dishonest again?

      1. No, you’re being a victim of Russian and Republican disinformation. All I can tell you is figure out how to consult reliable sources and read in good faith.

        1. We have E-mails and transcripts; what other “reliable sources” do you suggest we consult?

          1. This one actually surprises me. Not a goddamn peep from you about the encyclopedic volumes of information on Trump corruption, but all of a sudden some half-assed bullshit that’s been long debunked about the Biden has you setting your hair on fire. Nothing about Trump’s owing money to foreign governments? His participation, unwitting or no, in foreign election interference? His entire fucking life of graft? Not even Trump U? Not even the fucking Trump charity that got shut down? All crickets.

            Get. Your. Information. From. Real. Places.

            1. In foreign election interference? His entire fucking life of graft? Not even Trump U? Not even the fucking Trump charity that got shut down?

              I know about all that. Why would I care? How does any of that affect his performance as president?

              but all of a sudden some half-assed bullshit that’s been long debunked about the Biden has you setting your hair on fire

              E-mails and other sources show that Hunter Biden received massive remuneration in return for providing access to Joe Biden. I mean, you’re free to say that you don’t care about that. But I know of no way in which this has been “debunked”.

              Care to cite some “reliable sources” that demonstrate that Hunter Biden did not actually receive massive amounts of money from China and Ukraine? That the E-mails are fake?

            2. Tony. Do you have information about Trump’s corruption (after taking office?) Being shaken down for bribes by the NYC planning commission doesn’t count. This is a genuine question – please feel free to summarize any credible accusation of corruption in office.

              1. He has a stack of emoluments violations higher than Don Jr. on a Friday night. His offspring are working in the White House and making foreign policy, if you just want to talk about nepotism. He’s used the justice department as his personal goon squad.

                But since your standard is corruption only after having been president, surely that standard applies to Biden.

                1. He’s used the justice department as his personal goon squad.

                  LOL, if only. Half the bullshit that’s taken place in the last four months probably would never have popped off if that was the case.

                  1. Google paid for all online work from home from $ 16,000 to $ 32,000 a month. The younger brother was out of work for three months and a month ago her check was $ 32475, working at home for 4 hours a day, and earning could be even bigger….

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                2. Fine, Tony, I’ll bite. Please tell me of a corroborated act of corruption by Trump at any point.

            3. “”foreign election interference? “”

              Where was the interference? There has been zero evidence that people’s votes where changed. Sure, Russia had a propaganda campaign on social media. If you really think that is interference perhaps social media controls your life more than mine.

              1. Just stop replying to him.

                He adds nothing of substance.

                1. “Just stop replying to him.

                  He adds nothing of substance.”

                  Motherfucking This! Tony has been a lying sack of shit here ever since the first W Administration, and you geniuses can’t keep yourselves from replying to him. He’s great at his job; I’ll give him that.

                  His purpose here is to troll and blow up comment threads, so advertisers will think that somebody still reads this website.

              2. Propaganda works. It worked on you.

                1. Says the idiot who still believes the bullshit Russian Collusion nonsense and never does anything but parrot Box headlines. If anyone is evidence of the effectiveness of propaganda, that person looks back at you every time you look in the mirror.

                  1. Be honest, do you actually know anything about the Russian interference story other than that Trump and FOX News declared it a hoax?

                    You’re a nice person but I get so goddamn tired of people who actively refuse to learn about what they’re talking about.

                    1. Be honest, do you know anything about the Russian interference story other than the MSM said it was so without any actual proof?

                      You’re a nice person but I get so goddamn tired of people who actively refuse to learn about what they’re talking about.

                      Ditto.

                    2. Yes, I do. You should try being a liberal. It doesn’t require you constantly believing that all of mainstream journalism, academia, science, entertainment, and big tech are participating in history’s most convoluted conspiracy against you.

                    3. It doesn’t require you constantly believing that all of mainstream journalism, academia, science, entertainment, and big tech are participating in history’s most convoluted conspiracy against you.

                      Doesn’t need to be a conspiracy when it’s being blatantly done and they aren’t even trying to hide it.

                    4. Even so, why not learn to stop worrying and love being the members of society other people want to have over for dinner?

                    5. Even so, why not learn to stop worrying and love being the members of society other people want to have over for dinner?

                      I’m sure the members of Sodom loved hanging out with each other before they got torched, too.

                2. Propaganda works. It worked on you.

                  Someone squawking ShareBlue’s newest talking points is really in no position to be accusing anyone of succumbing to propaganda.

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  26. This is perhaps peak BOTH SIDES.

    But it is still early.

  27. while conservatives worry that Chinese and Ukrainian energy companies are funneling funds to Democratic presidential contender Joe Biden through his son.

    this is actually happening so there is plenty to worry about

    1. Sure hope their is “Tariffs” applied to that transfer 🙂

  28. That so many Americans believe Biden and Trump are foreign-backed puppets is less testimony to the effectiveness of overseas scheming than to our own political culture.

    Gosh, why can’t US political culture not be more like European political culture! They respect their elites (they don’t have a choice, really)! Sure, they turn socialist or fascist every century, they like to kill people by the millions, their economies aren’t doing so well, and they are committing demographic suicide! But at least they are stylishly dressed, educated, and use very polite language while they spiral down the drain!

  29. But Americans can only blame themselves for turning a centuries-old democracy into a playground for low-budget dirty tricks.

    Well, and let’s see how we got here.

    Originally, only property owners could vote, that is, people who were by and large successful, experienced, older and educated. And the issues they voted on were of small interest to average Americans, mostly defense and tariffs.

    Then the progressive era hit and brought with it universal suffrage, massive government handouts to the population, mass communications, propaganda, and corporate cronyism.

    And that’s where we are today: “The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of.”

    So, you’re right: Americans are to blame for letting progressivism and socialism take root in the US and destroy their liberties and democracy. If there is a way out, it’s only by reversing most of the progressive errors that brought us here.

    1. “progressive errors” = UN-Constitutional

    2. the landowner requirement only existed in about half the states, and all but two removed it by the 1820’s. the last one did so in 1856. unless you want to bemoan the end of slavery as part of the progressive movement, your rhetoric is a bit off.

      1. the landowner requirement only existed in about half the states

        Other states had poll taxes, literacy requirements, or coupled voting to paying taxes.

        unless you want to bemoan the end of slavery as part of the progressive movement, your rhetoric is a bit off.

        Exhibit 1. This is how nasty people sabotage political discussions and degrade civil discourse: through gratuitous references to slavery.

        Actually, what I want is “no representation without taxation”, in addition to “no taxation without representation”. Meaning, unless you pay property taxes, you don’t get to vote on what property taxes are used for. Unless you pay income taxes, you don’t get to vote for what income taxes get used for. And if you don’t pay any taxes, you can still vote for government functions that don’t involve taxing or spending. Basically, I want libertarian government.

  30. Here’s one – I worry about Election Meddling by massive immigrating foreigner voting! The exact same illegal votes and population being pushed by Democratic controlled states who play games with not being able to require voters provide legality status out of some sort of “its a right be a fraud voter” claim.

    1. It will take so much work to deprogram you people.

      1. No doubt you’ll want to send us to “reeducation camps” and gulags.

        Don’t bother: if people like you come to power, we’ll just leave.

        1. It doesn’t matter where we go; they’ll always follow like flies on a cow-pie. It’s the “wealth” *earned* they want to steal; no desire to actually earn, create or make anything.

          1. It’s in every [D]-vote issued through bribed-entitlement promises to resources never *earned*. It’s not about Justice or Freedom it’s about “What do I get”.

          2. It doesn’t matter where we go; they’ll always follow like flies on a cow-pie.

            True. But it usually takes them 1-2 centuries to wreck a country.

            What’s scary is that we may eventually end up with a global society, in which case, once they wreck it, it’s curtains for the entire world.

        2. Oh no don’t leave whatever will I do without pig-ignorant cultists voting for oligarchy and theocracy.

          1. Oh no don’t leave whatever will I do without pig-ignorant cultists voting for oligarchy and theocracy.

            The top 10% of income earners pay 70% of income taxes.

            The question you should ask yourself is how you finance your progressive dreams without us.

            And it isn’t just “pig-ignorant theocrats” that are leaving, it’s also gay liberal atheists like me.

            1. But if you stay you’ll just keep working to get rid of the income tax anyway.

              1. But if you stay you’ll just keep working to get rid of the income tax anyway.

                Tony, unlike you, I’m not a radical. To the contrary, I think the US should raise income taxes. In particular, it should adopt more of the income tax system of advanced “socialist” European nations, meaning the US should keep its top federal income taxes roughly where they are, and sharply increases income taxes on the bottom 90%, in order to balance the budget.

                1. You almost had me till the end.

                  Someday I will have to have a long, deep conversation with one of you guys about the joys of waking up each day thinking of new ways to shit on poor people.

                  1. In your fantasy world, people who make $56000/year are “poor”, you get European-style benefits with paying virtually no taxes, and socialism can be financed by fleecing the top 10%.

                    You’re an ignorant, wealthy American, Tony, richer than 99% of the people on this planet. You have slave labor in China making your crap for you while slowly destroying the country for your greed, and all you can do is demand more free crap. You, Tony, are who is “shitting on poor people”.

                    1. The tax system overall is quite regressive in this country as you would expect when you put oligarchs in charge because you think they’ll let you be rude to trans people or ban abortions or whatever.

                    2. Tony…you were just owned by NOYB2.

                      Back to his original point. The fact is, we can leave. This is not the 20th century. We live in the 21st century. We are a lot more mobile. Is it really all that hard to pick up and leave for another country? No, it is not. In my case, I can always emigrate to Ecuador (my first choice), or Israel (second choice).

                      Maybe you need to take a look at the number of people who renounce their American citizenship every year. It has grown quite a bit.

                      So yeah, if you want your silly progressive paradise, you had better start planning for implementing that without us. Meaning, the people who actually pay taxes, and have the brains to do things. Because quite honestly, you need us a fuck-ton more than we need you.

                    3. The tax system overall is quite regressive in this country as you would expect when you put oligarchs in charge

                      Tony, we’re talking about income tax. Why would “oligarchs” care about low income taxes? Oligarchs don’t even get significant salaries.

                      The fact is that a European-style social welfare state requires a European-style tax system, which means high taxes on the middle class. There simply is no other way of financing a social welfare state. Countries have tried to do it in other ways and failed, again and again.

                      And let’s be clear here: it’s high taxes that create those oligarchs in the first place: all that tax revenue gets spent on government handouts, mostly to the already rich and well-connected. That’s why there are so many billionaires among the Democrats and why government employees get such spectacularly good benefits packages.

        3. “Don’t bother: if people like you come to power, we’ll just leave.”

          Why do you think there’s anywhere left to run, NOYB2?

          1. Oh, it’s a purely personal consideration. When I was young and poor, I needed a country that gave me opportunities and liberty, and the US used to have plenty of that. I don’t need that anymore, I just need a good place to retire. Many countries that are generally authoritarian are quite libertarian once you have some money.

            If you’re young and want to build a future, you’re indeed out of luck. But that’s not my problem or responsibility: I warned you about that.

      2. “10.7 million *unauthorized* immigrants live in just 20 major metropolitan areas”
        — ALL of which have gone from [R] states to [D] states through time.

        “Five of the 20 metros with the largest unauthorized immigrant populations are in California: Los Angeles, Riverside-San Bernardino, San Francisco, San Diego and San Jose”

        – pewresearch

        And just for you Tony; the most liberal biased “fact-check” ever invented ‘politifact’ ironically cannot deny CA gets anywhere from 2 to 4 extra electoral votes and house votes BECAUSE of illegal immigration.

        1. Your whining is falling on deaf ears since I am glad Democrats are winning and I think immigrants deserve to vote for their government same as anyone else.

          People still aren’t somehow getting their names added to voter rolls when they’re not legally allowed.

          1. That’s the problem Tony; Obama and the [D] politicians and judiciary has made it so ABSOLUTELY anyone is legally allowed to vote.

            They just as well of air-mailed our ballet-box to an entirely different country to be stuffed with anybodies vote and their policy about applying the U.S. Constitution to just anybody exemplifies that.

          2. Ya know what’s funny Tony; Is practical reasoning has been presented to you over-and-over and over again; yet, even though your stances always dwindle into despair ( an you have to play the ignorance card ) you’re compulsively cheerleading the faulty ideology. I can tell you’re not stupid – so…

            either #1 – You have some major party/gangster affiliation ingrained
            or #2 – There is something you are after but want it dishonestly (willing to compulsively lie to get it).

            1. You just said ballot boxes are being stuffed overseas and you want to have a serious conversation about something?

              I’m sorry that the Republican Party has made nutbag horseshit mainstream and turned you into a lunatic. I’m sorry they did that to you.

              1. Play that ignorance card… 🙂

  31. it is amazing how much the comments on here underscore the point being made…… there are many who will never even realize, that this partisan hatred was actually the goal of the Russian trolls more than any influence on the election results themselves. every article, every topic, every thing that ever comes out turns into an excuse to list off nasty things people don’t like about the “enemy” while completely dismissing and deflecting from anything off in their own team. pointing out that a foreign government is very unlikely to make an impact on our elections, and that the hand-wringing about foreign involvement is more a reflection of our highly partisan culture becomes and excuse to be highly partisan…… i am so disappointed in this great nation right now.

    1. Show me where Trump put US foreign policy up for sale. Sorry but this time one side really is worse than the other.

      And it wasn’t Russian trolls behind the hoax that Trump was a Russian agent. It was Hillary Clinton.

      1. you guys really are doing your best to prove the article’s point, aren’t you? sad part is everyone being too brainwashed to even see it when they do it.

        1. Perhaps your missing the biggest point of all. The one’s who love the USA are finally saying, “Enough is enough; no more!” we will not continue to sit idly by while the nations very foundation is destroyed by socialism/communism/mobsters/gangsters/theft/corruption. The ‘progressive’ left has gone too far.

          1. oh, the irony…… if anyone is missing the point, my little hate puppet, it is you.

            1. Foo, are you trying to compete with Tony?

            2. The point, “You’re all going to eat-sh*t and enjoy it because…..” ???

              1. It’s laziness, TJJ2000. Too lazy to bother to do the hard work of getting involved, trying to gather supporters or convince others that an ethic of governmental non-aggression, and general promotion of liberty, is worth working towards. Much easier to sit on the sidelines, proclaim that everybody sucks, and not even bother to do anything.

                Usually, that’s not a bad way to bet when looking at politics, especially those in D.C. This situation is different. If the last six months haven’t proven it to any observer, I don’t know what will.

                1. i am a county officer and two time delegate for the LP, and i host regular outreach events and have sponsored and participated in several signature drives, and i have actively worked to help spread the word about Jo Jorgensen……. telling stupid people they are stupid does not make a person lazy. supporting trump and pretending he furthers the goal of governmental non-aggression is extremely lazy though.

                  1. So be honest foo; Is Jo Jorgensen a Democratic Prop running to take votes from Trump? I scanned her platform; My biggest non-support factor was the very limited attention to the Constitution and this idea of turning the USA into Switzerland. WTF! We I wanted Switzerland I’d move there!!!

    2. there are many who will never even realize, that this partisan hatred was actually the goal of the Russian trolls more than any influence on the election results themselves

      I couldn’t care less about “foreign involvement”; it’s perfectly fine for foreigners to opine on US politics and to broadcast their views to the American people.

      The problem is that Democrats have finally fallen for Russian and Chinese propaganda and embraced social justice and democratic socialism.

      1. “i don’t care about foreign involvement…. look at those evile people being influenced by foreigners!!!!!!”

        so very disappointed…..

        1. Disappointed in what?

          I believe in free speech, and I condemn Americans who want to push an authoritarian agenda. That seems like a pretty straightforward libertarian position.

          What exactly is your position? You want to suppress people advocating authoritarianism because they are foreign? Or what?

          1. my point…. like the article itself…. was that the problem is not either side being helped or influenced by foreigners, it is both sides ignoring their own garbage and pretending the other guys garbage is the worst thing to ever happen in all of history…… the hyperventilating about how evil the other tribe is…. the going into attack mode in response to a post that did not “take sides.” the disappointment is people like you who refuse to see how bad the hyperpartisanship has gotten because you are too personally invested in keeping it going. everything must be about hate for the “other.”

            1. Politics would be in a much better place of parties would clean their own backyard before criticizing others.

              1. of = if

              2. sadly, i do not think it will happen any time soon, because they keep getting away with it.

            2. the hyperventilating about how evil the other tribe is

              On the one hand, we have classical liberals: people who believe in equality under the law, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, free markets, subsidiarity, separation of powers, personal responsibility, and small government.

              On the other hand, we have socialists and progressives, people who believe in collectivism, equality of outcome, and social justice.

              If you think these two positions amount to two arbitrary “tribes”, you are politically illiterate.

              the disappointment is people like you who refuse to see how bad the hyperpartisanship has gotten because you are too personally invested in keeping it going. everything must be about hate for the “other.”

              I was a lifelong Democrat until 2016. I’ve never been a Republican. I’m an immigrant, and I recognize the Democrats for what they are today: the radical leftists that I fled when I emigrated to the US

              You are evidently the typical ignorant, badly educated, privileged American who thinks that choosing between free market capitalism and democratic socialism is like choosing a tribe in Survivor or a flavor at the ice cream store. You delude yourself into thinking that your ignorance of politics amounts to a rejection of tribalism.

              It’s absolutely pathetic what America has turned into over the last half century.

              1. the topic of the article, and my post….. was the question of “foreign influence.” it was not about every single facet of the underlying platform of the left. it was not about every absurd thing promoted by anyone ever associating with that group…… however, your post continues to demonstrate the underlying problem, that so many people are completely incapable of ever separating anything beyond the absolute black and white battle between the tribes… the topic at hand is the influence of foreigners, and you jump right to socialism and defining the conflict as being with people who, by your own words, are radicals and not actually representative of the average democratic voter.

                1. ^More lefty buffoonery, “The left is just like the right.” You people really should take the time and compare the DNC to GOP platforms; they are indeed 90% wildly opposites.

                  And if you use the P.C. term [WE] for socialism – 90% of the DNC platform is socialist.

    3. The only people fretting about foreign election interference and Russian bots taking over Twitter are the left. For them everything is Russian disinformation. They called Tulsi Gabbard a Russian agent.

      The extracted emails seemingly prove that Biden used his influence as VP on Burisma and or Ukraine, not that he’s some puppet of a foreign government.

      1. Since this is apparently the last-minute push by Russia to attempt to sway the election, I suppose I must ask, what’s the meat of the supposed scandal here? Nepotism?

        Trump hired his own children to work in the White House.

        1. Since this is apparently the last-minute push by Russia to attempt to sway the election, I suppose I must ask, what’s the meat of the supposed scandal here? Nepotism?

          Conflict of interest on the part of Biden. Nepotism to the tune of millions of dollars per year.

          Trump hired his own children to work in the White House.

          Yes, and like Trump, they don’t take any salary; it’s a net loss for them. In addition, because they work for the WH, their activities are known and they are subject to disclosure rules and scrutiny.

          1. I had a fleeting thought that some incomprehensible hack might respond with the argument that a policy-making job in the White House isn’t actually nepotism. That the most prestigious office in the world doesn’t have any value because only cash money has value! But I actually for that brief moment thought nobody could be that volcanically stupid or hacky.

            For the record, Joe Biden’s son could have been caught fucking Satan and most of the country would still vote D to stop Trump from literally destroying the United States. Nice try, but we tried to “non-corrupt” Trump, and it just didn’t work out.

            1. For the record, Joe Biden’s son could have been caught fucking Satan and most of the country would still vote D to stop Trump from literally destroying the United States

              If that was the case, BigTech wouldn’t have gone balls-out to influence the election by suppressing the story.

              People whose candidate of choice is up by 10% don’t need to act so manic in shutting down shit that makes the candidate look bad.

              1. We learned from our mistake in 2016. There are enough gullible Pennsylvanians for it to matter what bullshit they are being fed.

                In another time it wouldn’t matter because we’d all be in agreement that Russia trying to ruin America was a bad thing.

                1. The cope in this post is off the charts.

                2. And no, Tony, the New York Post story isn’t bullshit. We know that because no one in the Biden campaign, least of all Biden himself, has said that it’s bullshit. Their media water-carriers are parroting “MUH RUSSIA” because they don’t know any other lines.

                  1. You don’t care about corruption otherwise you’d be horrified by Trump.

                    1. And neither do you, otherwise you’d be horrified by Biden and you wouldn’t be parroting ShareBlue talking points.

                    2. So, Tony, you’re saying then that both Biden and Trump are corrupt. Biden also is a mean tempered liar with no understanding of facts, just what you imagine Trump to be.

                      So, all those things being equal, the decision between Biden and Trump comes down to policies and record. Biden’s record is abysmal, even by progressive standards. Biden is in bed with American oligarchs and billionaires. He refuses to disclose some of his policy positions because he knows voters would hate him for them, and what we do know is utterly unrealistic. And Biden has no new ideas on COVID either. That’s the candidate you think is better than Trump.

                    3. No, I’m saying Trump is one of the most corrupt humans to ever live and Joe Biden is not corrupt at all, and your sad attempt to muddy the waters and distract from Trump’s outlandish levels of corruption are all the sadder because you’re probably not getting paid for the hack work.

                    4. No, I’m saying Trump is one of the most corrupt humans to ever live and Joe Biden is not corrupt at all

                      And this is why Democrats need to be Mario-stomped.

                    5. [Tony:] No, I’m saying Trump is one of the most corrupt humans to ever live and Joe Biden is not corrupt at all,

                      Yes, Tony, we already know that you’re a gullible, uninformed idiot.

            2. I had a fleeting thought that some incomprehensible hack might respond with the argument that a policy-making job in the White House isn’t actually nepotism.

              I’m sure unpaid WH jobs would be a wonderful career stepping stone for Yale political science graduates, given that they have few other choices. For people with actual skills and/or businesses, it’s a big sacrifice.

              For the record, Joe Biden’s son could have been caught fucking Satan and most of the country would still vote D to stop Trump from literally destroying the United States.

              Yup, that’s what fools like you actually believe when you vote for Chavez, Castro, Stalin, or Hitler. Of course, Harris isn’t quite in that league yet, but her successor likely is going to be.

        2. Since this is apparently the last-minute push by Russia to attempt to sway the election

          The Russians made Biden’s crackhead son leave a laptop at a computer repair shop for a year?

      2. you clearly don’t get it…… i admire your desperate attempt to cling to specific words to feign a distinction, but you completely miss the point. the point is that a foreign government never could have significant impact on our elections, but people obsessing about dealings with foreign governments is a symptom of our sick political culture…..

        1. Our “sick political culture” is but a consequence of pretending the USA is a democracy instead of a Constitutional Union of Republican States.

          It’s the same result you’d see at a football game were everyone ignored the basic rules of the game itself and just played any game-plan they wanted.

  32. Is the issue really our ‘sick political culture’ or the politicians that are so openly untrustworthy that people will believe anything about them?

    Who was that pol that said ‘government surveillance only bothers people when they find out about it’? Is he right? That the issue is not the surveillance but people knowing about it?

    Same here – would it be ok if Trump/Biden were Putin’s puppets if we could pretend otherwise?

    1. Maybe it’s time to stop asking politicians, “What’s in it for me” and instead ask them if they plan to actually do the job they will swear-by-oath to do.

  33. Both sides, to be sure…
    One side makes juvenile tweets every now and then.
    The other side uses the state apparatus to spy on and/or harrass its political opposition, and openly accepts bribes (or even actively demands them) from shady foreign sources.
    But both sides, to be sure…

  34. The owner of the repair shop who now legally owns the laptop has already been identified. An work order bearing Hunter’s initial is on record. And no one seem to be disputing that the extracted emails and images are real.

    So we’re playing this “foreign disinformation” game because the owner apparently gave conflicting account on when he or if he gave the FBI the laptop. That’s about it.

    If the emails are correct, Biden met with a Bursima official after denying such meetings and took half Hunter’s salary – yes, the navy dropout and cocaine addict who had no experience in energy. Earlier he tried to have the Burisma prosecutor fired.

    Biden might not be a foreign agent. He may have just used his influence as VP on Ukraine and Bursima. And the evidence presented by NYP is more compelling than 90% of what was shown in the impeachment and Russian probe.

    Did I mention that the FBI lied to spy on Trump, and they may have sat on info gleaned from the laptop for almost a year? And then twitter decided to suddenly clamp down on leaks and hacks? “They are private company” and “the media and tech are coordinating with the left to silence their opponent and protect themselves” can be both true.

    1. Is it your most fervent hope that people don’t even investigate what the hell you’re talking about, that they’ll just absorb the string of words and associate Biden with Ukraine and corruption the same way you did with Hillary and emails?

      Why is the only thing the FBI is investigating regarding this matter the possibility that it’s a Russian disinformation campaign? How many times does Trump have to be impeached before you start believing the wrongdoing in this matter is his?

      1. It’s crystal clear that Joe Biden lied and that Hunter Biden sold his political influence for massive profits. Whether that’s illegal is secondary.

        1. Even if it were all true and not one bit the “truth with lies” Russian disinformation playbook, and even if it were worse than it looks, the fact is Trump is more openly corrupt every day before breakfast. And that’s not even mentioning his hundreds of other flaws.

          1. the fact is Trump is more openly corrupt every day before breakfast.

            Still waiting for actual examples of Trump’s supposed corruption.

            1. Tony has none. There are none. Tony is a fucking lefty ignoramus and is a lying piece of shit.

            2. He is facing many federal and state criminal investigations as we speak.

              Hillary, still at large.

              1. He is facing many federal and state criminal investigations as we speak. Hillary, still at large.

                So is Trump. IOW, you have nothing.

              2. Shitstain, still waiting for actual examples of Trump’s supposed corruption.

      2. How many times does Trump needs to be exonerated before you will except he is the least corrupt POTUS of the last 50 years?

        1. “Least corrupt president in the last 50 years” HAHAHA!!! Was Carter corrupt? Ford gets a bad wrap because of Nixon, but he was a pretty straight shooter.
          Why are Ivanka and Jared employed by the White House and given security clearances? The only qualification they have is being related to Trump?

          Trump sent ambassador UK Woody Johnson(NY Jets owner, and he sucks at that) to Scotland to try and get the Open Championship moved to his golf course. If that’s not illegal it certainly is unethical. He wanted to hold the G7 at Mar a Lago until enough people told him how bad it looked.

          There are minor compared to his bigger scandals, but my point is your statement was ridiculous.

          1. “There are minor compared to his bigger scandals, but my point is your statement was ridiculous.”

            They are lies, and they are the best you have.

            1. They’re facts that can easily be verified. You Trump supporters aren’t living in reality.

              1. “Don’t look at my side’s foreign influence peddling with China and the Ukraine, look at this golf course.”

                As Principal Skinner would say, “Pathetic.”

              2. “They’re facts that can easily be verified….”

                And yet, you can’t seem to.

  35. Neither side really believes that there is foreign meddling. They’re just pretending that there is a sane reason why an overriding majority of voters don’t see things as they do.

  36. To be fair I contribute to the toxicity by calling people inbred. My username is a joke, but people don’t know that. I should try to be more civil. Even when someone is hostile to me I should turn the other cheek.

    The Mormon thing is different. That’s just me defending my liberty and life. It isn’t really political.
    However, most mormons are ultra right wing fascists. They aren’t libertarian at all. If they were liberal they maybe would be more reasonable. Liberals are more likely to let people live and let live when it comes to religion. They usually wanna keep govt secular. Fuck Mormons.

    1. America’s been orchestrating coups, assassinating foreign leaders, and meddling in foreign elections forever. We shouldn’t be surprised when others return the favor. Now our citizens should be informed about who’s meddling and why…

      In Soviet Russia election meddle you.

      1. To be fair, you are a stinking pile of lefty shit.
        Fuck off and die.

    2. To be fair I contribute to the toxicity by calling people inbred. My username is a joke, but people don’t know that.

      We were assuming that you aren’t actually going around shooting rednecks, but it conveys your belief system well. Your user name isn’t a “joke”, it’s “hyperbole”, just not very effective one, because it really exposes you for the nasty bigot you are. You don’t even realize how boring and trite your attitudes and beliefs are, how they have dominated progressive thinking for a century.

      The Mormon thing is different. That’s just me defending my liberty and life. It isn’t really political.
      However, most mormons are ultra right wing fascists. They aren’t libertarian at all.

      If you don’t like Mormons or their political views, don’t live in Utah. How difficult is that to understand? Let individual states decide on questions like taxes, social safety net, gay marriage, transgender issues, and abortion as they see fit. That’s why we have 50 states. I didn’t like NY and CA politics and taxes, so I moved.

      The “ultra right wing fascist” here is you: you want the entire nation to be governed according to your political preferences, and if that’s not happening, you’re throwing a temper tantrum.

      1. “because it really exposes you for the nasty bigot you are. You don’t even realize how boring and trite your attitudes and beliefs are, how they have dominated progressive thinking for a century.”

        Rednecks aren’t an ethnic group or religion so I can’t be bigoted towards them. Please tell me what beliefs I have that have dominated progressive thinking for a century? I’m genuinely curious for you to tell me what I believe and how “trite” it is.

        I don’t live in Utah, but the Mormons are invading other states. I’m ashamed my state elected Gordon Smith twice and Dennis Richardson as secretary of state in 2018(thank goodness he died).

        ” The “ultra right wing fascist” here is you: you want the entire nation to be governed according to your political preferences, and if that’s not happening, you’re throwing a temper tantrum.”
        I’m not right wing nor am I trying to force anything on anyone. That’s what the Mormons are doing and why I’m “throwing a temper tantrum” is to raise awareness.

        Gay marriage, transgender issues, and abortion shouldn’t be left to states. They’re are fundamental rights. No one owns the word marriage and LGTB people getting married doesn’t affect others. Mormons spent millions on prop 8 in California. They’re the ones trying to shove crap down everyone’s throats.

        They worship pedophiles. Why are you pro pedophile worshipping? What kind of sick fuck are you?

        1. “Rednecks aren’t an ethnic group or religion so I can’t be bigoted towards them.”
          Lefty shit posted that.

          “They worship pedophiles. Why are you pro pedophile worshipping? What kind of sick fuck are you?”
          Hey, turd! Your fan-base seems to be deserting you!

        2. Rednecks aren’t an ethnic group or religion so I can’t be bigoted towards them.

          Of course you can be bigoted towards rednecks (=rural working class).

          Please tell me what beliefs I have that have dominated progressive thinking for a century?

          Bigotry towards the rural working class, bigotry towards the uneducated, bigotry towards Christians. It’s the same bigotry we got from Obama: “they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them”.

          Gay marriage, transgender issues, and abortion shouldn’t be left to states. They’re are fundamental rights.

          Well, the move to Europe. Europe guarantees “fundamental rights” to its citizens, the US does not. The US Constitution delegates limited powers to the federal government, and those powers do not include the imposition of gay marriage, the imposition of non-discrimination laws, or the imposition of abortion “rights” on the states.

          And as a gay man who has actually experienced different forms of government, let me tell you: the model expressed in the US Constitution is the better one. To define “rights” in a constitution is a lousy system.

          I’m not right wing nor am I trying to force anything on anyone. That’s what the Mormons are doing and why I’m “throwing a temper tantrum” is to raise awareness.

          The only thing you are raising awareness of is how bigoted and ignorant you are.

          1. “rural working class” doesnt mean redneck necessarily.

            That’s your opinion of progressives which is a broad term and has included many groups and opinions over the last century.
            Religious conservatives are theones trying to force their views on everyone. I don’t care if your gay or not. No one can tell anyone consenting adults who can and can’t marry.

            I don’t know why you defen mormons if you’re gay. They think you’re gonna burn in hell ya know. They spent millions to ban gay marriage in California.
            THEYRE FORCING THEIR BELIEFS ON OTHERS. They’re rotten to their fuckig core and won’t change their evil ways. They need to be destroyed.

            1. “rural working class” doesnt mean redneck necessarily

              Go look it up:

              redneck (noun): an uneducated white farm laborer, especially from the South; a bigot or reactionary, especially from the rural working class.

              That’s your opinion of progressives which is a broad term and has included many groups and opinions over the last century.

              It has indeed: progressives have spanned the range from the fascist-loving progressives of the early 20th century, to the American and European technocrats of the late 20th century, to the American democratic socialists of the early 21st century, however, a disdain for the preferences of people of lower education and the rural working class has been common to all of them. And obviously, you share it too.

              I don’t know why you defen mormons if you’re gay.

              I’m not “defending Mormons”, I am defending liberalism, subsidiarity, and self-determination.

              They think you’re gonna burn in hell ya know.

              No, they don’t actually; in any case, their beliefs really don’t matter to me.

              They spent millions to ban gay marriage in California.

              So? Biden, Hillary, and other prominent Democrats also opposed gay marriage and even voted for DOMA.

              THEYRE FORCING THEIR BELIEFS ON OTHERS.

              You mean the people who left civilization and went into the desert to be left alone and live according to their own beliefs? Those people? The only reason they are fighting beyond their borders is because the creeping authoritarianism of the federal government doesn’t leave them any choice.

              They’re rotten to their fuckig core and won’t change their evil ways. They need to be destroyed.

              You evidently have personal and psychological issues.

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  38. Foreign meddling? You mean the CIA, DEA and GAFISUD overthrowing Morales and installing an unelected faith-based Women’s Christian Temperance Union fanatic in charge of Bolivia? That’s old news, nearly as old as the U.S. invasion/occupation of the poor, dissolute, uncovered wretches of Colombia, Ecuador and Panama.

    1. Nice hank, now tie that in with Biden. Or STFU.

    2. Yup: the political program of neocons and progressives. And Biden is cued up to continue their agenda.

      1. Doubt Harris would try to throw out Evo Morales. Unless of course, Morales wouldn’t play ball with licensing and developing Bolivia’s increasingly important mineral rights. (They sit on a hitherto mostly undeveloped lake of lithium ores. Lithium is kinda important if we want this all-electric transportation network thing.)

        1. Harris may be a leftists ideologically, but her lust for power and her opportunism override her ideology.

  39. Tony
    October.16.2020 at 6:30 pm
    KillAllRednecks
    October.16.2020 at 10:08 pm
    To you and other stinking piles of lefty shit, I am not going to bother to provide the links. If you ignore those now falling out of the sky, well, you richly deserve the accusations of your scum-bag idiocy; only lefty shits like you could ignore them.
    Put simply, Joe, (and with the assumed approval of that lying POS Obo), empowered his dead-beat son to pimp political access to Joe (as a sitting US VP) to any foreign agent with enough money to keep Hunter’s drug and sex habits from eating into the ill-gotten family gains.
    Joe, through Hunter, sold his ass in the Ukraine, in China, and who knows how many other locations which have yet to come to light or didn’t come up with the cash.

    1. Wheneveri try to research what everyone claims about Hunter Biden all the reputable sources dispute what everyone says on here. It’s almost there’s not evidence supporting Hunter influencing his dad’s foreign policy.
      Seeing as how everyone on here takes Trump’s word on mail in voter fraud despite it being bullshit I’m going to assume the Hunter Biden shit is false too.

      The commenters on this website believe what they want to and facts don’t change that.
      I’m dumb for thinking I could reason with you extremests.

      1. The “Obama spied on my campaign” lie seems to be going strong here too.

        If Trump casts doubt on the election without evidence he should be charged with sedition or something. It’s an attack on our institutions and the stability of our country. It’s dangerous because so many of his supporters believe everything he says. Even when he contradicts himself they do some mental gymnastics about how he’s not wrong. They’re insane. He talks about locking up his political rivals all the time without evidence. I think there’s enough evidence to charge him.

        1. “The “Obama spied on my campaign” lie seems to be going strong here too.”

          You misspelled “fact”, lefty pile of shit.

        2. Oh, and the thought of you ‘researching’ anything at all is amusing in the extreme. You’re an idiotic fucking lefty bigot incapable of anything like ‘research’.

        3. You do realize that Jedi mind tricks only work in the movies, right?

      2. Kill all rednecks? You can start with me. Seriously, come give it a go. Biden’s involvement in Ukraine has not been debunked by reputable sources and IF these latest emails are valid it proves that Biden forcing Shokin out was to protect the money stream from a known corrupt Burisma to Joe via Hunter. Burisma investigation wasn’t dormant and there is documentation of this. Your reputable sources are all parroting the same line that Burisma wasn’t being investigated based on Kasko, allegations against Shokin from the US state dept. and the IMF. But Kasko wasn’t the only deputy working for Shokin. Another deputy who served as interim prosecuter clairs that the Burisma investigation was active during Shokin’s tenure. But you don’t hear any of this from your reputable sources do you?

        1. Exactly. If there was “nothing there,” BigTech wouldn’t have gone into ban-hammer mode about 8 hours after the story dropped. They really stepped on their dicks by going Full Big Brother.

          1. The NY post is a tabloid. Until another source reports it I’m going to be skeptical.

            What is more likely? You have hundreds of “mainstream media” outlets working in concert to bury a story harmful to a mjor candidate?

            Or you have one “news source” known for being right wing publishing questionable on Biden’s son

            I know you right wingers never let logic or facts get in your way,but Im going to wait and see.

            Since you’re the same people who claim mail in voting is fraudulent you don’t exactly have much credibility.

            1. KillAllRednecks
              October.17.2020 at 1:01 pm
              “The NY post is a tabloid…”

              Fucking lefty ignoramus poisons the well.
              Fuck off and die.

            2. More question-begging, gaslighting, and well-poisoning.

              Sad!

      3. “Wheneveri try to research what everyone claims about Hunter Biden all the reputable sources dispute what everyone says on here. It’s almost there’s not evidence supporting Hunter influencing his dad’s foreign policy.”

        And, as a typical lying pile of lefty shit, you can’t seem to find any cites for your bullshit.
        Wonder why….

        1. You didn’t cite any for your post either.

          1. I see “logic” is not one of your skills.
            I ask you to support your claim with a cite, and you ask me to support my request with a cite?
            I’m sure the 6th grade were the best years of your life so far; perhaps three or four years in the 8th grade might be better.

      4. It’s almost there’s not evidence supporting Hunter influencing his dad’s foreign policy.

        Yeah, a full-on media blackout and subsequent misdirection to MUH RUSSHA! will do that for the gullible stooges.

        Not a shred of evidence has come out indicating that what the Post has published is false. You’re just coping here.

        1. If it isn’t false then shouldn’t other news sources be able to verify it?

          The idea that all the mainstream media is working in concert to bury this is absurd.
          What’s more likely is the Post has questionable reporting.

          If other news sources start reporting it and verify some of the details I’ll be willing to admit I was wrong. Right now there’s just not enough evidence.

          I know even if the story is disproven that won’t stop you Trump lovers from believing it. Just like mail in voting fraud and Oama spying on the Trump campaign you all never let facts get in your way.

          1. KillAllRednecks
            October.17.2020 at 1:07 pm
            “If it isn’t false then shouldn’t other news sources be able to verify it?..”

            “The Hunter Biden Business
            Joe’s son was trading on his father’s name and position to cash in.”
            […]
            “Count Sen. Ron Johnson among those not surprised that the press is ignoring a New York Post report about emails said to be from Hunter Biden’s laptop that suggest he introduced his father the Vice President to a representative of the Ukrainian gas company Burisma Holdings. Or that Twitter and Facebook would run interference for the Bidens by banishing the Post dispatch from their platforms…”
            https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-hunter-biden-business-11602803121

            Perhaps if your head weren’t so far up your ass, you might find sources which are reporting other than your idiotic claims, lefty shit.

          2. Your entire post is chock full of question-begging and gaslighting.

            Pathetic.

            1. Nothing I say is going to change anyone’s mind.
              Especially people who defend pedophile worshippers.

              For the sake of argument if Hunter did receive money because of who he is I still would take Biden over Trump for dozens of reasons.
              Until theresmore evidence I’ll hold judgement. Sorry I wont take the word of serial liars.

              Mainly Biden isn’t a fascist and doesn’t have fascist goons fighting for him in the streets. Biden has disavowed and called for violence to stop. Trump says “stand back and stand by.”

              1. Nothing I say is going to change anyone’s mind.

                Because nothing you say has any value.

                1. Mor value thayour stupi jokes about snackcakes.

                  Go back to fucking your sister you inbred shit.

                  I’m smarter than you. My life has more value than yours. IM BETTER THAN YOU.

                  Inbred fuckhead

                2. LMAO–if you had any self-respect you would have gone Full Cobain after posting that alcohol-addled, crying wojack post of cope.

      5. Wheneveri try to research what everyone claims about Hunter Biden all the reputable sources dispute what everyone says on here. It’s almost there’s not evidence supporting Hunter influencing his dad’s foreign policy.

        Nobody can know whether Biden’s policy changed in response to those millions in bribes to his family. What matters is that Biden knew about those bribes, that he tolerated them, and that he has lied about them.

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  41. BTW, the Chron finally notes that there are ‘some emails’ regarding Biden père et fils, but only since some anonymous ‘source’ says they’re being investigated as a possible Russki meddling operation!

  42. It’s funny for all the Hunter Biden talk you never hear a peep about Trump’s kids. Why are they working in the WH and given security clearances and salaries. They aren’t qualified other than being related to Trump. Kushner has like 50 different jobs that he isn’t qualified for.
    The grifter in chief sure has you rit wing kooks hook line and sinker.

    1. If a bunch of far right loons are criticizing me I must be doing something right. Especially since many are the same scumbags who defend Mormons for some reason. Maybe because I’m a “lefty/socialist” to them so anything I say is bad, so Mormons must be good or something? All I know is anyone who defends Mormons is a piece of trash. You don’t have the moral high ground if youre sticking up for pedo worshippers. It makes sense kind of since mormons are fascists and Trump’s on the fascist side.

      People defending con-artists pedophile worshippers should be ashamed of themselves for supporting such scum. However Trump supporters have no shame.

      1. KillAllRednecks
        October.17.2020 at 1:39 pm
        “If a bunch of far right loons are criticizing me I must be doing something right…”

        If your fantasy had anything to do with reality, you might be right. As is is, you’re nothing other than a fucking, bigoted, lefty pile of shit, due everything you get from anyone here.
        Fuck off and die; make your dog happy.

    2. “It’s funny for all the Hunter Biden talk you never hear a peep about Trump’s kids…”

      Perhaps they didn’t pimp Trump as Biden’s kid has. That might explain it, even to a fucking stinking pile of lefty shit.

  43. My feeling is that if the Russians spending about $100K on ads on social media actually tipped an election you’d see the DNC and RNC scrambling to emulate them. Think of how much money they could save!

    The fact that both parties continue to spend heavily on ad buys speaks volumes.

  44. The shitstain Tony, spaz, turd, ‘killthoseIdon’tlike’, biggov, M4E, jackass, and the rest of the raging TDS victims all assure us the Trump is guilty of corruption far worse than that (self-admitted) by the senile piece of lefty shit Biden. They are CERTAIN of it!
    And even after Trump, his family, his staff and most anyone he ever knew has been investigated by every agency the government could muster, impeached by congress and……..
    And………..
    Their best cites are:
    Three unpaid parking tickets, a fine for an overdue library book, a late-payment fee for the water bill, (just for you, spastic) ‘he said they’ll let you grab their pussy’ and:
    ‘DID YOU KNOW HE’S $400M IN DEBT?!?!?!’
    Biden doesn’t owe a ton of money only because he’s had his drug-addled son pimp his sorry ass to any foreign agent who could cover the buy-in; “Hunter Biden Forced Chinese Billionaire to Pay $10M for ‘Introductions Alone'”
    https://www.newsmax.com/politics/hunter-biden-presidential-election-pay-for-play/2020/10/15/id/992243/
    And that pile of lefty shits wonder why they are laughed at…

    1. Biden said two sentences about his family dealing with his son’s addiction and he gained 10 points in national polling. Maybe the American people aren’t as god-awfully terrible as you are or you wish they were.

  45. Wow! A story about foreign interference in US elections with no mention of Israel? I’m shocked – SHOCKED – I tellya!

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  47. I am afraid of those shifty foreigners with their shifty foreign eyes. If they get their way my vote might not mean anything!

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  49. Russia’s current influence in the world consists of some minor influence in the Middle East which has been greatly mitigated by Trump’s Middle East foreign policy and Israel’s two recent peace agreements and another between Saudi Arabia and Israel in the works.

    With the collapse in oil prices Russia has become a non factor in international politics. The Russian Mafia primarily in Russia, Israel and the Ukraine has more influence on the world stage than the Russian government Russia has about as much influence over U.S. elections as they do China’s elections.

    The two foreign countries that have the most influence on U.S. elections by far are China and Mexico, the latter whom no one dares talk about. China clearly favors Biden and Mexico’s President AMLO is a far left Progressive so they probably also favor Biden especially after Trump replaced NAFTA with USMCA

    Every time I read about Russia influencing American elections I yawn.

  50. Rump and Bye-done ARE beholden to a foreign government, but Americans are not allowed to criticize this chosen country. Foreigners who criticize them risk getting bombed

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