Bail

The Fight Over Derek Chauvin's $1 Million Bail Shows the System Is Irrational and Broken

The ex-cop charged with killing George Floyd should be allowed to await his trial in safety. That should be the standard for everybody.

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Derek Chauvin, the now-fired Minneapolis police officer facing second-degree murder and manslaughter charges for killing George Floyd in the line of duty in May, was released from pretrial detention last week, and his bail conditions will allow him to leave the state, an unusual deviation from typical bail rules.

Chauvin's bail was not cheap—he had to put up a $1 million conditional bond through a bail bond agency, meaning his family or somebody who supports him is having to pay $100,000 to the agency that they'll never get back, even if Chauvin is found not guilty.

Floyd's death has inspired across the country a summer of heated anger, protesting, and riots over police misconduct. The video footage of Chauvin kneeling on Floyd's neck has made Chauvin and the three other former police officers who were involved targets. Their lawyers told a judge that they've received several death threats and they were confronted by angry protesters outside a courthouse after a pretrial hearing.

Due to all the tension, Hennepin County Judge Peter A. Cahill ruled that Chauvin would be allowed to leave Minneapolis and hole up somewhere else in the state or in one of the states contiguous to Minnesota for his own safety. The address would be shared with the court and those who need to know where he is.

CNN reports that some were outraged at Chauvin being granted bail at all. For consistency's sake, they shouldn't be. The point of bail is to put terms on a defendant's release that will guarantee that the defendant returns to court for trial and does not cause any problems or commit any crimes while released. Unless there's evidence that Chauvin is going to go out and commit more crimes or flee the country, Chauvin should be released. And if there's a possibility that angry people will threaten Chauvin's safety, the judge is obligated to do something to make sure the man is protected.

Chauvin, like everybody else who has been charged with a crime, is supposed to be treated as innocent until proven guilty. Pretrial detention puts punishment ahead of conviction and should be avoided unless there's no other way to keep the public safe and to make sure the defendant returns to court.

Some outrage is most certainly over the unfairness of the bail system—many poor people are unable to cover the money bail bond companies demand and end up stuck in jail, sometimes for months. As a result, they are more likely to accept bad plea deals and harsher sentences. As noted above, somebody had to commit to $100,000 in payments in order to get Chauvin out of jail. People who are mad that Chauvin was able to do this should take note that the alternative—Chauvin remaining in jail—runs counter to criminal justice reform efforts. The goal should be that only people who can be shown to be too dangerous to be released remain in pretrial detention.

Beyond the anger over Chauvin being released, there's now controversy over who paid Chauvin's bail and whether he has some secret benefactor. This is essentially a moment where partisans are switching sides on this issue: During the protests this summer, the Minnesota Freedom Fund was attacked by conservatives for taking in donations and using them to bail out people who were arrested during protests. Minnesota state Rep. Paul Novotny, a Republican, told the Star Tribune that he was drafting a bill that he'd introduce next year to require a public record whenever a third party posts bail.

Now that Chauvin has been released, the Star Tribune reports that people were speculating on social media over who had paid his bail. This adds even more hypocrisy to the bail fight; if Chauvin needed to get help in order to pay bail, this is evidence that his bail was set too high—unless you mistakenly believe that people ought to remain imprisoned before their trial. If that's the case, you're essentially admitting that you want to punish Chauvin now before he's convicted.

The only reason to need to know who paid Chauvin's bail is for the purpose of retaliating, shaming, or harassing them. That's not justice, and that's certainly not criminal justice reform.

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  1. Don’t worry, California has a ballot measure to end money bail. What could possibly go wrong?

    1. No cash, but you have to leave your hands as a deposit.

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    2. No bail, but the judge decides if you’re a flight risk or dangerous. Now you might not trust judges, but I don’t trust the system that keep people in jail just because they are poor. We need to get rid of the stupid bail system.

      1. “We need to get rid of the stupid bail system” has, in practice, spawned a far more stupid system in which dangerous people are routinely released just because they also happen to be poor.

      2. One of the advantages of being a respectable and productive citizen is that if the government ever becomes untrustworthy and imprisons me on trumped up charges, I can post bail and remain free to organize my defense. But the Left wants to eliminate any advantages for anyone based on how productive they are, and turn all rights into privileges to be granted politically.

        1. Yes. Net worth automatically equals productivity. Even if someone is a loser who inherited billions and has never done a single days work in their life. Well written CE.

          1. Yeah, because that’s the norm for arrested criminals.
            Get a grip.

          2. Who said “net worth” you dunb cunt?

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        2. You have no idea just how correct your statement truly is. China has begun implementing a social credit system among the populace, allowing them to earn privileges based on their adherence to ChiCom commandments.

          The democrats see that as a ‘how-to’ guide.

        3. The system will treat you like shit, regardless of your lifelong upstanding relationship with civility and the law.

          The moment you’re accused, cops assume your guilt. One wrong glance, a misspoken word, you’ll be arrested and treated like a suspected criminal.

          From there you’ll be assigned to a prosecutor and your family may get a call to meet you for arraignment with an attorney, if you can afford one.

          The prosecutor will assume your guilt, based on the arresting officer’s statement. They both work for the state, not you. The judge is also a state employee and will assume his coworkers are doing their jobs well. Unless you have an attorney, you’ll be assigned a public defender, who also works for the state.

          If the attorney is hired by you, she’ll still have a state license, making her beholden to the state for livelihood. Indirectly, she’s an arm of the state.

          You’ll be held by corrections or sheriffs officers, who work for the state. They will treat you as a criminal and you’ll be passing in a public latrine until your arraignment, in front of criminals. You will be a ward of the state until bail is set.

          You will eventually make your way to the jury, who are provided with a small stipend for lunch and parking, by the state.

          From the start, it’s you versus the state. The judge, jury, prosecutor, cop, and your defense will all be working for the state.

          Even the bail agents work for the state, through the state licensing and orders of a state-employed judge.

          Are you really so naive as to think your fine upstanding life will matter to agents of the state?

          1. Fuck off clown.

            1. Too busy with your [mom | dad | favorite pet ].

    3. Cash bail is an affront to justice and goes against everything our country is supposed to be founded on. It disenfranchises the poor and on top of everything, there is not one shred of evidence that it is necessary.

      1. Oh shut the fuck up idiot.

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  2. “This is essentially a moment where partisans are switching sides on this issue: During the protests this summer, the Minnesota Freedom Fund was attacked by conservatives for taking in donations and using them to bail out people who were arrested during protests.”

    Belligerents on the march toward a civil war do not place any value upon intellectual consistency. There is no law. There is no order. And, above all, there is no desire among the belligerents to agree upon a common ground.

    People will return to the law when they get tired of shooting each other, but no sooner.

      1. Taking power by force only to imbue the law with a deliberate dose of arbitrariness will never lead to true stability. Such a society will always teeter on the brink of war, or else become so terribly repressive that it collapses upon itself.

  3. Careful Shackford, you run the risk of being labeled a Chauvin-ist.

  4. meaning his family or somebody who supports him is having to pay $100,000 to the agency that they’ll never get back, even if Chauvin is found not guilty.

    The police union?

    1. Would they still put up bail after he was fired?

      1. Police unions represent cops and get them reinstated with back pay after they’re fired, so very possibly.

        1. I don’t see any benefit to the union. Seems like a stupid and risky move. None of this guy’s coworkers stood up to speak in his behalf in public or court. Could lose union members over a move to support a fired and unpopular man.

          Probably no one put up $100,000. Probably some family raised what they could and now owe the rest.

          “More likely, said Burdeen, the person behind the bail bond rounded up as much cash as they could and agreed to pay the rest in installments with interest.”

          https://www.startribune.com/derek-chauvin-s-release-raises-questions-about-bail-system/572682182/

          1. No one cares what you think.

          2. The STrib is pretty well-known for biased reporting, as innocuous as that information may seem to be. One suspects that ‘questions were raised’ because Chauvin has been pre-judged guilty by the Star Tribune and many of its readers.

          3. Not knowing anything about the family, I would hazard a guess that one of his relatives took out a mortgage on their house or cashed out their retirement funds to pay for the bond.

  5. Perhaps Kamala Harris can do a bail reform speech while Chauvin stands stoically at her side.

    1. Do you think she can get the license to have ‘Ebony and Ivory’ playing as she does?

    1. It’s worked before.

      1. “You’ve crossed the Atlantic to speak at this libertarian think-tank, there will be the inevitable assumptions of political atmosphere around it, does that concern you?”

        Sunetra Gupta: No, I’m very secure in my politics… and they don’t align at all with libertarian thinking.

        (psst, you may have just discovered an alignment with your thinking)

  6. I don’t think he’s going to be convicted.

    1. Over-charging to please the mob is not a good approach to justice.

    2. I’m pretty sure he will be convicted. The video evidence is hard to argue against.

      But the other 3 cops (or at least some of them) have likely been overcharged to the point where a conviction will be hard to get.

      1. “The video evidence is hard to argue against.”

        No, it isn’t. He did what was in the training.

        Super easy to argue against.

      2. The manslaughter change will be a fairly easy conviction. The Murder charge is probably impossible.

        You can say pretty easily without much more than the video that he was trying to hurt Floyd, and he died from the actions. However, to charge his with murder, you will have to prove that he was intending to kill him, which would be difficult.

        The main defense would be either that he followed procedure that should have kept him alive or that there were extenuating circumstances which made Floyd’s death not foreseeable. From everything I’ve heard, I don’t think these are likely to succeed.

    3. Reckless endangerment. Involuntary manslaughter. Assault and battery. Those could be proven without knowledge of their intent. Those should have been the charges.

      He’ll get off on the murder charge. No way to prove intent, unless there’s a text message trail between the men from a prior encounter. Unless the jury is a bunch of cowards, afraid of the mob.

      1. I think, and plea ignorance to the specifics of MN law as am too busy to research right now, that assault and battery is a reach -lowest preferred charge though. I’ve argued for reckless endangerment or involuntary manslaughter, since those are in line with what we can see and read in the transcript from the bodycam. Unfortunately, the entire thing became another prime example of emotional reaction before having the facts, then refusing to accept the facts as they don’t fit the opinion one has formed. Letting go of biases takes work, one can’t shirk, blame others, point to ‘privileges’ one is lacking. It’s all on the individual to be mature enough to realize that (new) information disproves an opinion, and change. None of the last aimed at you, just that there’s a lot of it here.

  7. Holy fucking shit… you mean one of the complaints “bail reformers” have is that we can’t know who posted the bail? Are you fucking serious?

    Court documents show Chauvin’s $1 million conditional bond was secured through A-Affordable Bail Bonds, of Brainerd, Minn. Under Minnesota law, bond companies are not required to disclose who secured the bond or how much they paid in advance. A man who answered the phone at A-Affordable would not even confirm his agency posted for Chauvin.

    “If someone actually paid $100,000, then he’s friends with millionaires, because no one has that kind of money lying around,” said Cherise Fanno Burdeen, executive partner for Maryland-based Pretrial Justice Institute.

    More likely, said Burdeen, the person behind the bail bond rounded up as much cash as they could and agreed to pay the rest in installments with interest.

    1. Why does it matter?

      1. I have no idea. Of all the arguments I’ve heard for bail reform, this is the most bizarre. If my uncle ends up in the clink on a drunk and disorderly, it should be a matter of public record that I bailed his ass out?

      2. I can see that a Republican is also supporting this idea, and I suspect it’s because he wants to know who rich benefactors are who are bailing out Antifa. Regardless of my feelings on antifa, I don’t think it’s my right to know who bailed you out of the pokey.

        1. This is what happens while you’re commenting while on a conference call…

      3. can’t send the mob to your house if they don’t have the address

    2. It would be pretty straightforward for me, if I aba
      solutely had to, to tap friends and family for 100k, especially to keep me from getting raped/shanked. None of us are rich either.

      1. It wouldn’t be straightforward for my family or most others, but it’s not outside the realm of possibility for a substantial portion of people. Especially parents and grandparents could cash out retirement funds or take out a mortgage on a paid-off house. It’s quite possible he even had that amount in his own retirement fund.

        I dare say the majority of families could scrape together 100K if they pulled out all the stops and didn’t care about the consequences. In many cases it would be very painful, but there is no need to think that he had the backing of millionaires.

    3. There are enough cop suckers out there that a hundred thousand contributed a dollar to get him out.

      1. Suckers that are cops? Or regular people that blow cops? Or, sucker cops that blow other cops?

        1. One of the things that happened to poor sarc when he was broken, is that he joined the crew of commentators that feel a need to use gay sex acts in his comments as frequently as possible.

          1. You mean when he isn’t busy engaging them with random homeless men?

    4. I think its the other way around, bail reformers (usually) don’t want that to be a public record, but when it concerns Chauvin, suddenly they think they should know.

      Similarly, conservatives want to know who was bailing out antics thugs, but doesn’t want to reveal who bailed out Chauvin

      1. War tends to settle disputes like that — at least until people come to realize that a consistent set of rules is preferable to living out the rest of your days looking frantically over your shoulder.

      2. Bail reformers know that disclosure of bail payers, aside from the bondsmen, would lead to more people stuck in jail. Not everyone wants their name in the paper, just for helping a friend or family out on bail.

        So yes, until bail can be eliminated entirely (which shouldn’t ever occur in my opinion) bail reform should ensure bail payers stay confidential.

      3. Another pretty good rule, if the ‘hard’ right and progressives agree on something, then whatever they are for messing up should be left alone.

        1. The phrase “bipartisan agreement” usually spells trouble for liberty and fiscal responsibility. Anything bipartisan tends to be incredibly bad for citizens.

  8. Another one of those “no shit ” moments. And he may walk since he was following the Minneapolis police guidance on how to subdue people who resist arrest. But Details!

    1. the suspect/victim was subued about 7 minutes too long

      1. 3 or 4, if the point when Floyd became unresponsive is any indicator. And, as an ambulance had been called, twice, not knowing what medical training or equipment the cops had -I can insert an oropharyngeal ‘ j hook,’ but have no clue if these guys carry or train with them. Add to the this the concern for disease transmission from a clearly erratic, resisting subject, and a likely hostile group of onlookers. I think, minus checking Floyd’s vitals, that the rest of the attempted arrest was kosher. Chauvin may be a dick, but being an asshole does not remove due process protections.

    2. I’d look into selling property in Minneapolis *now*, because if that happens, the usual suspects are going to burn the whole city down.

  9. Some outrage is most certainly over the unfairness of the bail system—many poor people are unable to cover the money bail bond companies demand and end up stuck in jail, sometimes for months. As a result, they are more likely to accept bad plea deals and harsher sentences.

    You might look into Japan’s ‘bail system’ if you want to really have the crap scared out of you.

  10. The ex-cop charged with killing George Floyd should be allowed to await his trial in safety. That should be the standard for everybody.

    Epstein didn’t kill himself.

    1. Cite?

      1. Can’t, all the cameras were mysteriously turned off or broken, and the two guards were asleep down the hall.

      2. Do you have proof that he did?

        1. No, all the cameras were mysteriously turned off or broken, and the two guards were asleep down the hall.

          1. And the one other guy there had his hands over his ears chanting “nanananana……. I ant hear you!” While keeping his eyes closed.

      3. You do realize, don’t you, that Bill, Hillary, and the rest of the cabal lit celebratory cigars when the news of Epstein’s death came out?

      4. Pathologist’s report stating neck injuries not consistent with suicide… But, only the second autopsy report from the Floyd case counts, correct?

  11. “ If that’s the case, you’re essentially admitting that you want to punish Chauvin now before he’s convicted.”

    I have no problem admitting to wanting to punish government by any means. The deck is always stacked in their favor anyway.

    1. “Government” is other people.

      1. Well, it’s not me, so I guess you’re right.

    2. He’s no longer government, he’s been laicized. Now he’s one of the little people.

      1. He was government at the time, and after the riots in reaction to him being found not guilty on all counts he will be government again. With back pay.

        1. I guess we’ll have to see.

          1. If history is a guide it’s a forgone conclusion.

            1. I’m willing to bet $1 Sarcasmic is wrong and that the murderer gets convicted, provided only that he give me a million-to-one odds and Tuccille holds the money until the outcome is decided.

  12. If there are millions of people demanding that you be convicted, in a controversial case, it stands to reason that there will be a reaction, and that some people will work to protect your rights, if only to the extent of providing bail.

    That’s at least a plausible explanation of how he raised the money. It’s also possible there’s a sinister moneybags paying to have him sprung. I can’t prove anything.

    But there’s nothing unfair of getting some pushback in favor of the defendant to match the riotous push to have him convicted (or else…or else more riots I imagine).

  13. Great, let a murderer walk the street. Thanks government, I sure do feel safe now. Guarantee he only wears his mask in public to hide his racist face so he doesn’t get punched for the Nazi he is… Not gonna lie this has Orange written all over it. Who else would give a racist murderer A MILLION DOLLARS. Think about it for ten seconds and it all starts to make sense. Not sure what to believe, it just smells fishy to me.

    1. Poe’s Law is a bitch.

    2. Not sure what to believe, it just smells fishy to me.
      I JUST WANNA BE MAD, OK?

    3. Typical lies from racist bigotry. Chauvin & co. were innocent and only sadly deluded liars and their ignorant fools say otherwise. Sadly the medical report PROVES that Floyd killed HIMSELF with a fentanyl drug overdose, NOT the corrupt Dem media’s bigoted, bogus lies about nonexistent police brutality, as the few informed there are agree. This corrupt nonsense is just the blind anti-white racist bigotry of fools evil Dems have wrapped around their little finger, telling them what to do. If this country were sane, most of the media and their fools would be behind bars for their depravity and corruption, e.g. the baseless riots.

      1. Since you claim to be SO interested in the truth I figured I’d let you in on some rather than the string of lies, mischaracterization, and more lies you just spewed all of us.

        Yeah, the only place you’d be telling the truth is in a world where asphyxia is a common side effect of being on fentanyl. Also Chauvin had been disciplined at least 3 times in the past for violating department policy by applying chokeholds which were expressly FORBIDDEN by the department.

        Also they knew each other, (you left that out) they worked at the same club at the same time for over a year. He should be charged with first degree murder the only reason he wasn’t is because he’s a dirty cop with the support of the most racist organizations in the US. Police unions. In a just world the feds would use the RICO statutes for what they were designed to do and it possible to actually clean up law enforcement with one fell swoop. Will they? Not with the traitor we currently have infesting the White House.

  14. If Chauvin’s grossly hypocritical and depraved lying “guilty ’til proven guilty” enemies had done to them what they’ve done to him (that’s you, evil Dem NYT & WAP & AP and old network corruption) they’d scream loud and long, cowardly bully crybabies. If the full truth were known versus the half truths and lies of vile, degenerate media hacks these poor officers would be exonerated and returned to duty with back pay and extra payment for duress and libel and slander, and those attacking them would be in jail and beaten.

    1. That poooor BAYBEE! Russ should’ve been at the scene to shoot the witnesses and take their cellphones. How dare those creeps interfere with the sort of murder necessary to impress the other slaves with “our” seriousness and determination to make prohibition stick even if it require murdering every man woman and child in the People’s State of Minnesota! Wait’ll the Grand Jury finds out about that dereliction from duty!

  15. “Chauvin, like everybody else who has been charged with a crime, is supposed to be […]” held face-down in the ground with a knee on his neck until he’s dead, right?

    Treat others as you want to be treated in return, right?

    That’s the reason for the “hypocrisy”. You can bitch and moan about details all you want, but the simple fact is that the ‘justice’ you are seeing for Chauvin’s is not the ‘justice’ he saw for others.

    1. To be clear, I’m not endorsing this philosophy. Eye-for-an-eye leaves the whole world blind and all that jazz.

      But the outrage is entirely predictable. Fussing over ‘hypocrisy’ is a distraction.

      1. “An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind” is actually somehow even more cynical than I usually manage, since it presumes *that* many criminals in the populace.

        1. We are all criminals in America, 3 felonies a day and all that jazz.

    2. “Treat others as you want to be treated in return, right?”

      So the way people treat Chauvin is how they want cops to treat them? What comes around goes around, eventually someone needs to be the grown up the room

      1. I agree we should have just upped and shot him.

        No no wait! Strangled him.

      2. Oh shut the fuck up idiot.

  16. We could just take the Title IX approach, and shoot everyone accused of anything, just in case they did something.
    Great way to reduce spending on tritialities like courts and jails and lawyers.

    1. Have you seen how expensive ammo is these days? I’m not sure how much we’d save.

  17. I thought we were abolishing prison, too? So why bother with bail, jail, trials? Just tell him he was a bad boy and send him on his way. Oh wait! He’s a white guy, we’re only abolishing prison for people of color. Nevermind.

    rewirenewsgroup.com/article/2020/06/15/what-we-mean-when-we-say-abolish-prisons/

    “Reformers believe that some people should be in jail, and that the prison industrial complex can be changed to work better for everyone. Abolitionists disagree. While reformist ideas sound good in theory, abolitionists recognize that these short-term solutions have been proven to be ineffective.

  18. Maybe if alleged criminals were given a speedy trial, the bail companies wouldn’t be demanding 10% non-refundable funds?
    Perusal of the local newspaper would indicate most trials come about 2 years or more after the alleged crime took place.

    1. That is one of the most neglected constitutional rights.

      For all the fights over the first and the second, people tend to forget that five of them are about how we treat those accused of crimes by the government (which just goes to show what the FF truly thought of as important).

    2. Riiiight… alleged… all those videos may have been faked, and the witnesses suborned by Manchurian commie spies out to make the Dem State cops look bad for killing black folks to make the War on Democracy look good on subsidized fake nooz. Makes perfect sense.

  19. No no no. All brown people good and don’t need no cops or jails. It’s the honor system bro. All white peoples are bad and deserve the whip.

    Sheesh get it right.

  20. Whoever posted the required bond is nobodies business. The fact that Chauvin is allowed to leave the state, if that is correct, might be strange, but that would be another matter.

  21. No matter. He’s innocent. Floyd killed himself via a drug OD, Corona infected, and over all poor heart condition. He was trying to hide his stash, and swallowed it. Thus, he OD’d.

    1. See? See? Gospel truth like the time Jesus raised Lazarus and shook loose those maggots! Chauvin’s lawyer will tell judge Gladys Dykes: “Your Honor, it seems my client simply FOUND that dead body on the sidewalk surrounded by drugs, and was on his way to deliver them to the proper authorities!” (Raucous laughter from back of courtroom…)

  22. If that’s the case, you’re essentially admitting that you want to punish Chauvin now before he’s convicted.

    Yeah, that argument is surely going to convince BLM and Antifa supporters to change their views!

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  26. Charges? Bail? Tarl the “libertarian” Trumpista assures everyone that George Floyd was already dead from reefer madness when Chauvin and his buddies found him on the sidewalk. The official throwdown report even said so. Dem states can send cops out to kill people with absolute impunity to make the other looter party look bad. Chauvin’s problem is, like Major Danby told Yossarian in Catch-22: “The commanding officers can make up as many official reports as they want and use them as they choose.” Locking the murderer in with a bunch of blacks jailed for reefer madness is exactly what he deserves–and the politicians giving him orders.

  27. Derek Chauvin – what a pain in the neck.

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