Be Patient: We Might Not Know Who Won the Election Right Away

Mail-in ballots typically take days or sometimes weeks to be counted, so don't expect results on Election Night this year.


Americans had to wait more than a month after Election Day to learn that George W. Bush had beaten Al Gore in 2000. Declaring a winner involved recounting about 62,000 votes in a single state and a ruling from the Supreme Court.

If this year's election also seems to stretch out longer than it should, it won't be due to butterfly ballots or hanging chads. The election controversy is likely to revolve around—indeed, it already is revolving around—the expanded use of absentee ballots and mail-in voting as an alternative to having millions of people line up at polling places in the midst of a pandemic.

The tradeoff that comes with safer voting options is that absentee ballots typically take days or sometimes weeks to be counted. Georgia, New York, and other big states that relied heavily on mail-in voting for primary elections during the late spring and early summer experienced long delays in reporting results. It took New York more than a month to finish counting all of its absentee ballots—and larger volumes are expected in November.

"If it's very close, Florida 2000 will look like a picnic compared to what we could have," says Richard Hasen, a professor of political science at the University of California, Irvine, and the author of Election Meltdown (Yale University Press), a new book exploring how incompetent public officials and inflammatory rhetoric have created an environment where more voters distrust the basic processes of democracy.

Three weeks after the meltdown at this year's Iowa caucuses, where the use of new vote-recording software led to confusion and delayed caucus reporting, Hasen hosted a hastily organized conference with the goal of making suggestions for how states could better secure the legitimacy of the 2020 general election despite the challenges of COVID-19. In April, the group released a report with 14 recommendations ranging from expanding mail-in and early voting options to informing the public about the potential delays in reporting results. He says voters, candidates, and observers should anticipate a long lag time between the end of voting and getting official results.

While a few states have moved to full-scale vote-by-mail operations in recent years—and have done so without any uptick in voter fraud or disadvantage to either major party—that process takes time and money. This year, most states have neither. Instead, they are bootstrapping expanded vote-by-mail operations onto existing absentee ballot systems and hoping for the best.

In New Hampshire, for instance, all voters will be allowed to request absentee ballots and list "COVID-19" as a valid excuse for not showing up at the polls. Illinois and Massachusetts have decided to automatically send absentee ballots to all eligible voters at their last registered address. Wisconsin will send absentee ballot request forms to all voters and make absentee ballots available to anyone who returns the paperwork.

Most voters say they would rather cast their ballots in person, but they want the option of voting by mail, especially this year. A July poll by ABC News and The Washington Post found that 59 percent of Americans would prefer to vote in person. A July survey from the Pew Research Center found that 65 percent of Americans believed voters should be allowed to vote by mail without giving an excuse, but Democrats (83 percent) were far more likely than Republicans (44 percent) to say so.

In-person voting is generally preferable because it limits common mistakes—like voting for too many candidates or failing to sign the ballot—that are more likely to happen when people vote absentee. Research by Charles Stewart, a professor of political science at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and founder of the MIT Election Data and Science Lab, found that an estimated 800,000 absentee ballots were rejected in 2008 by local election authorities, mostly due to mismatched signatures or because they arrived too late. Counting absentee ballots requires reviewing them one by one, and even though computers help, much of the work is still done by hand. That's going to be especially true in states without a true vote-by-mail infrastructure in place.

In short, even though fraud is not really a concern for mail-in balloting—there's a literal paper trail for every vote cast—there are good arguments in favor of in-person voting. It's faster and less vulnerable to user error. The goal of expanding vote-by-mail is not to abolish voting booths—only to provide an alternative for those who want it.

Politics, of course, are obscuring the granular nuance of this debate. President Donald Trump has repeatedly attacked the legitimacy of mail-in voting, even though he voted in Florida's Republican primary in March using an absentee ballot and even though he has used his Twitter account to encourage Republicans in some swing states to do the same. He has also suggested that delays in reporting should be viewed with skepticism. "Must know Election results on the night of the Election, not days, months, or even years later!" he tweeted on July 30.

That's a standard that would be nearly impossible to guarantee. Even in years without Bush-Gore levels of controversy, close elections can remain uncalled for days. Federal law allows 35 days for election officials to certify results.

Changing that deadline could be one way to avoid some of the possible chaos this year. There are 78 days between the election and the start of the new congressional session on January 3, but states are given less than half that time to certify results. Yuval Levin, a constitutional scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank, argues that Congress should extend that deadline and postpone the Electoral College's meeting, currently scheduled for December 14. "There's really no reason that has to happen in December. It could happen in January," he says. "A simple bill in Congress could move those dates back by two or three weeks and give states more time to count."

Sen. Marco Rubio (R–Fla.) has introduced a bill to give states until January 1 to finish counting presidential ballots, postponing the Electoral College's meeting until January 2.

But even allowing more time for counting ballots doesn't resolve the bigger potential political crisis looming over this election. In 2018, absentee and mailed-in ballots counted days and weeks after the polls closed swung the outcome of two congressional races in Orange County, California, that Republicans appeared to have won on Election Day. Hasen worries that something similar happening in key Senate races or presidential swing states could become a major controversy even if there's nothing nefarious going on.

"COVID-19 has put incredible stresses on the election system—and would have in the best of times, but we are not in the best of times," he says. "We are in times of high polarization, high distrust in elections, and we have a president who is fanning those flames."

Trump is unlikely to change his behavior between now and November. That's why it is incumbent on voters to be informed about the process and willing to accept that slow election results are more likely to be the result of the unprecedented circumstances than deliberate malfeasance.

"We all need to be prepared to expect and explain a long vote count in the days and perhaps weeks following Election Day," says Kyle Kondik, managing editor of the political newsletter Sabato's Crystal Ball, published by the University of Virginia's Center for Politics. Election Day could end up being "a mess" if polling places have to be closed at the last minute due to outbreaks and if it isn't feasible for states to expand early voting or vote-by-mail options.

"I fear it's going to be difficult," he adds, "and that conspiracy mongering will fill the void of an uncalled election."

Patience is not a guiding principle in American politics. This year, it might have to be.

NEXT: Donald Trump Switches Positions Again, Says Stimulus Negotiations Are Back On

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    1. American will know that Trump was elected because he is going to win so many in person votes it will outnumber the mail in and absentee ballots for the states that matter.

      We are not going to wait for Commifornia to count all its absentee ballots to determine Trump won reelection in a landslide.

      1. Trump is positioned to get trounced in every context except clingerverse fever dreams.

        As usual, the culture war casualties will do as they are told, with plenty of whining.

        1. You go ahead and enjoy your pseudo-victory winning the popular vote. Nobody cares about voters in decaying liberal cities. Here in the real world, we will enjoy our electoral college victory over you fools.

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        2. Bummer about that Supreme Court, eh Rev?

        3. This election looks as hopeless as the 2016. Why would President Trump ever think he could defeat the establishment political elite and their allies the wealthy elite and the msm? He doesn’t stand any more of a chance now then he did in 2016 and we saw how that turned out. With the polls counting him out he should have given up and all the Americans voting for him should have just stayed home. We should follow the lead of the Democrat voters in the Democrat cities that have been rioting, looting and burning protesting against the policies of the Democrats they elected and will no doubt elect again. That makes better sense then rejecting the establishment political elite that is responsible for most of what is wrong with our country.

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  2. With any luck, Amy Coney Barrett’s confirmation will be finalized before election night, so at least we don’t have to worry about recount disputes.

    Plus we’ve also learned that D’s have difficulties in signing, sealing and properly mailing in their votes, which had already prompted Hillary and AOC to beg voters on twatter to vote in person instead. Seems like Ds have fallen into a trap of their own making.

    Finally, preliminary results from early voting especially in swing states are troubling for Ds, they should be way ahead of Team R than they currently are.

    1. What makes you think the she would rule in whatever way favors the Republican position? Sounds like you’re expecting her to be a corrupt bitch. You’re probably right of course.

      1. Shes large an originalist. Which means she understands the means and manner of elections are designed by the legislative branch and not the judicial branch. The left has been using political judges to change voting procedures in many states. So anyone who even has a sophomoric understanding of the constitution would recognize the harm done by the judicial branch changing election laws by fiat. As an originalist one would expect her to strike down the judicial overstep.

        1. It really is this simple. Yet here’s pod wanting to make sure no one forgets he’s by far the dumbest poster here.

          1. Please mfer, you don’t know shit about the law. It’s perfectly within the normal process for state courts to rule upon state election laws. The remarkable thing would be what you desperate losers are hoping for and that’s a federal court overturning a state court.

            1. Please mfer, fuck off and die.

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            3. Which law? There’s different laws in different states moron.

            4. The courts are literally trying to say “covid exception to the constitution” in these changes dumbfuck. Did you even bother reading up on the lawsuits?

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            5. You progs are all predatory sociopaths.

      2. It’s not her fault that the Constitution and the election laws favor Republicans. Her job is to uphold the Constitution and the law.

        1. People thwarting his tribes fraud and cheating is corruption to Stroozele.

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        2. The Constitution says “All persons born…” not embryos, “The free exercise thereof…” not gunpoint coercion of infidels, “A free State…” not Kristallnacht gun laws, and forbids “involuntary servitude…” which the Suprema Corte says frogmarching us into foreign wars isn’t. Trump caving to the Lebensborn faction of God’s Own Prohibitionists in trying to add a Mutterehrenkreuz awardee of the Fuehrer’s faith-based conditioning is grounds for hoping every Republican is ousted in hopes of salvaging the Constitution.

          1. And, what was all that gobbly-gook stuff?

          2. Have you ever said anything intelligible?

            1. Hank’s has access to the best bud for years.

              1. I’m thinking meth.

                1. Well he’s talking about Nixon below, so now I’m thinking acid, with frequent flashbacks.

          3. The Constitution lets the states make the laws regarding what’s legal and what’s not (except for treason, piracy, and counterfeiting). But the Supreme Court somehow missed that important point.

      3. Sounds like you’re expecting her to be a corrupt bitch

        No, we’re expecting Sotomayor, Kagan, Breyer and Roberts to be corrupt bitches.

        1. Reminder: The indicators are all there for the attempted theft of an election:

          1. Hillary and Pelosi calling on Biden not to concede

          2. Hundreds of thousands of ballots being made and stored

          3. Dubious polls that show Biden and Harris 14-16 points ahead

          4. Ballot harvesting and mass send out of ballots via the mail

          5. Threats and attempts to suppress voting (democrats always project)

          6. Media articles like this one preparing the electorate for the fact “that they’re going to keep counting ballots until Biden wins”, as Jerryskids says below.

          If your Democrats win, there will never ever be another fair election and you will become a one party state eventually devolving into oligarchical socialism.

          As a Canadian this frightens the shit out of me, because once America falls, the rest of the West is toast.

          Solution: Vote in person straight GOP ticket…all hands to save your nation
          Be prepared for mass civil disobedience and a general strike. Demand a second election with in person voting and use of voter IDs.

          1. Who are you voting for, Mother’s?

            Oh, that’s right, you are a Canadian who spends hours every day discussing American politics.

            1. Most important politics on the planet right now.
              You and your insane prog pals are a civilization-destroying level threat, and a loudmouth huckster is the only thing standing in your way.

              1. I’m a libertarian.

                1. Who capsized to port years ago…

                  1. White knight has gone from just being an annoying twat to Lying Jeffy level dishonesty.

                    1. It ain’t me that’s being dishonest here. It’s all you CACLLs who aren’t taking me at my word. Even though I have never posted one thing that indicates I support liberal, progressive, or Democratic causes.

                  2. That was actually kind of funny. You should go with this kind of insult instead of your usual “fuck off”.

                2. I’m a libertarian

                  The hell you are.
                  At best you’re an establishment nanny-stater, but if your recent posts are anything to go off of, you’re really a po-mo wokester.

                  1. Cite?

                3. No you aren’t. Your a liberal in a deep blue state who is a contraband so you pretend to be a libertarian. Yoh do nothing but defend the left. You’re a liar.

                  1. Is a contrarian*

                    You wear a libertarian badge knowing your state is reliably left as a form of cred. It makes you the least credible.

                  2. I don’t live in a blue state, Sherlock.

                4. The White Knight
                  October.10.2020 at 12:38 pm
                  I’m a libertarian

                5. So you say, but where’s the proof? Membership card? Organizational roster maybe?

            2. I like how you acting xenophobic makes you think you’re winning an argument. Never change.

          2. Canadians can vote for conservatives because ALL laws coercing women over birth control have already been repealed. Since the Comstock laws of 1873 Americans have been menaced by mystical fanatics pointing guns and bent on “the coercive exercise” of their pathetic superstitions. After Bush asset forfeiture wrecked the economy Idi Amin’s Democrats had 8 years to pack us off the Siberian Yukon. So? oder so? Gidaddaheah ya Neufie!

            1. You’re really keen on dead babies, huh.

              1. You’re thinking of Tricky Dick Nixon and Lt. Calley, the Hero of My Lai.

                1. Being less than 100 years old I can assure you he isn’t and neither is anyone else.

                2. My Lai happened in March of 1968. LBJ was president, so once again you reference to My Lai proves Democrats just want dead babies.
                  Mentioning Nixon is a non-sequitor since he wasn’t CiC at the time.

                  1. Nixon “only” pardoned the baby-killer.

              2. Hank IS keen on dead babies. He jerks himself off while watching bootleg videos of Kermit Gosnell’s late term abortion procedure videos.

                1. Like TDS sufferers, he blamed Nixon for something that occurred before Nixon was elected. Just like Trump, Nixon was so effective he was directing policy before he took office.

                  1. Temporal mechanics are a real bitch.

    2. This joker uses the quote, “..Trump is fanning the flames…” AZ’ole. People should reasonably be aware that brand new systems of unsolicited ballot mailings will cause delays and confusion. Trump addresses that very important reality and he’s “fanning the flames”. You are fanning some flames, too.

    3. Democrats are too stupid to fill out ballots, put them in an envelope, put that envelope in another envelope and mail the goddamn things.

      1. Yep, definitely disenfranchisement right there.

  3. You know, if I didn’t know better, I’d say Boehm the birdbrain wants to ‘condition’ Readership to stand idly by while Team D harvests whatever ballots they need to swing elections….

    1. Vote harvesting is really a Republican trick. For example, in 2011 Republicans found an extra 7500 votes for their Wisconsin State Supreme Court candidate David Prosser in a Republican county. This after the race was called for his opponent. We also read a few days ago in this blog about a mailman changing Biden votes to Trump. So the people we need to watch are the Republicans. Their candidate is losing and most in need of a fix.

      1. Mod4…You really ought to take a look at what is happening right now in the People’s Republic of NJ, if you want to talk about harvesting. Harvesting is a trick done by both parties opportunistically, let’s not kid ourselves.

        Now I am perfectly Ok with absentee ballots where the voter presents an ID to the voter registrar, they get a ballot, and cast their vote. That is fine. The registered voter has been verified. And I absolutely want their vote to count! Regardless of whether they vote for Jo Jorgensen or not. 🙂

        What is not OK is sending out millions of postage pre-paid ballots to anyone registered in a state since the last time the voter lists were reconciled. Not only is that costly, but it also guarantees a small percentage of ballots will be fraudulently returned.

        In many cases, the voter registration lists are years out of date. The People’s Republic of NJ is one such place. There are 537 municipalities in NJ. Many don’t purge voter lists. We are about to see the greatest event in human history…thousands and thousands of people in the People’s Repuiblic of NJ will be resurrected from their graves for one day only – November 3 – and then we’ll never hear from them again. If you think this is only a problem for the People’s Republic ; namely, outdated lists, then I have a bridge I want to sell you.

        This is a real problem. You can’t be OK with that.

        1. He can be OK with that since he’s just a leftist sockpuppet.

        2. Do you really think NJ is going to go for Trump? Let start by focusing on states that are significant to the election, not CA, AL or MS where the outcome is unlikely to be in dispute.

          1. No, not for Trump…I think. But there are many offices and ballot questions in NJ whose election could be close.

            1. That is the entire reason Phailing Phil went vote by mail. It is all about the down ballot races.

          2. Do you realize you’re admitting you’re ok with Dems vote harvesting with this comment?

            1. So, you come here and make pretentious that you are a serious person who thinks seriously about politics, then you post comments like this that it’s all about Red team sports, and using any spin, misrepresentation, or insult that will let you “win” the conversation (in your mind). It’s just team sports with CACLLs.

          3. Youre saying voter manipulation is okay as long as it happens in deep blue states?

          4. Fuck off White Knight.

          5. This is another aspect of the poor argument Trump and his followers have been making to support their narrative. They keep talking about fraud in states that are not at all swing states.

            There’s some fraud in New Jersey?! I’m shocked! Shocked!

            1. “They keep talking about fraud in states that are not at all swing states.” And Democrats are still complaining about the last election because their lopsided votes in a few large and corrupt states didn’t overrule the rest of the states.

        3. “In many cases, the voter registration lists are years out of date.”
          And which political party ALWAYS resists trying to bring them up to date, or any other method to ensure that only live, registered voters, with ID to prove who they are, can cast ballots?
          Do I need to provide the answer?

      2. Harvesting is a science perfected by the California Dem Party. Using ballot harvesting, the Democratic party was able to flip two reliably red districts in southern california during the 2018 race.

        I don’t think you know what ballot harvesting is. It isn’t just “finding” ballots in a trunk or whatever. Ballot Harvesting is the use of third parties to bring ballots from the voter to the drop off, where they are counted. This allows volunteers to go door to door (to democrat strongholds) and collect ballots rather than counting on those people to show up on election day. It is also ripe for abuse, where in Minnesota it has been alleged that nursing homes are just collecting ballots and turning them over to collectors un-filled out.

      3. You’re a liar.

      4. Thanks to democrat bullshit. There is no goddamn reason that people can’t vote in person. People go to all kinds of places currently where this isn’t an issue. For those who are still concerned, let them request an absentee ballot.

        The democrats are pushing for mail in voting strictly to fix the vote for Biden. Period.

    2. No. The article literally says it’s going to take a long time to count votes in this election, and gives reasons why. All else is projection on your part.

      1. Based on judges/executives changing voter laws by their sole decision and ignoring the legislative process. Youre terrible at pretending laws matter. Especially as a fake libertarian. Usually even fake libertarians pretend they are against this type of electoral manipulation. But you are okay with it, as most of the leftists are.

        1. If a judge or executive did that it is likely they did it under the legal framework of their state.

          It’s interesting that you are resorting to a technique I see CACLLs use a lot here. Vague, paranoid, sweeping statements with no mention of any specific incident, so nothing you say can be refuted. If you want to discuss a specific incident in a specific state, let’s do that. Otherwise, you just come across as a CACLL chicken little crying that the sky is falling.

  4. Yes, we get it – no matter how things look on Election Day, rest assured that they’re going to keep counting ballots until Biden wins.

    This talk of there being no election fraud is horseshit, there’s election fraud going on already. The fraud lies in changing the rules on what constitutes a valid ballot. The Dems have already changed or are suing to change the rules on postmarks and how long after the election ballots will be accepted, how signatures are matched, witness signatures, ballot harvesting, and other safeguards on the integrity of the election. The Dems are doing everything they can to make election fraud as easy and undetectable as possible, don’t tell me they are acting innocently and have nothing planned.

    And then you’ve got this “mail-in” balloting like Massachusetts and Illinois where they pretend this is nothing new, we’ve always had a mail-in option. You’ve never before sent out unsolicited ballots, no, it’s always been voter-requested mail-in ballots. Why this change? It’s because you know there’s going to be a big drop-off in voter participation if you require people to take 2 minutes to request a mail-in ballot, you have to be at least a tiny bit motivated to vote if the voting requires making an effort to vote. And let’s see – which candidate has enthusiastic voters, ones who will make an effort, and which is the candidate of lazy fucks who can’t be arsed to lift a finger to help themselves? Which candidate benefits the most by making it as easy as possible to vote?

    And look, if the polling stations are open, you manage to find enough volunteers to man these places, how hard would it be to find volunteers to count the votes in a timely manner? As long as they use a sortation process. Is the ballot an official ballot? Is the ballot sealed? Is the ballot signed? Does the ballot have a witness signature? Is the ballot signed by a registered voter? Does the signature on the ballot match the signature on the voter registration form? If all of these answers are “yes”, count the ballot, if any of the answers are “no”, the ballot gets shit-canned, it’s not a valid ballot. You only count the valid ballots.

    The problem with counting the votes is by doing what Joe Biden has already suggested – instead of shit-canning improper ballots, we’re going to put them in a provisional pile and then go back and interview the voter to establish voter intent. No, fuck you, we’re not having do-overs on the ballots. If you can’t follow the rules and get a correct ballot in in a timely manner, that’s on you. Try that shit anywhere else, explain to the IRS on April 18th that you forgot what day it was, explain to your bank that you forgot how much money you had in your account, explain to the electric company that you forgot to put the check in the mail, explain to the lottery commission that you accidentally picked the wrong numbers, they don’t play that shit. You’re paying a penalty for late filing, you’re getting dinged with overdraft charges, your electricity’s getting cut off, you ain’t getting the big jackpot. Fuck you, all sales are final.

    But this clusterfuck of an election is going to be a clusterfuck precisely because they’re rigging it for Biden to win. The bigger the clusterfuck, the more opportunity to sneak in votes for Biden. We all know this to be true, so don’t give me this happy-sappy crap about how this election is going to be “mostly peaceful”. It’s a rigged election.

    1. And all elections are rigged to an extent – you’re offered a choice of candidates in the same way you’re offered a choice by a mugger demanding your money or your life. Where’s the option to say you don’t want either one of the candidates? Where’s the option to say you don’t want any candidate, that this office shouldn’t even exist? No matter who you vote for, you’re voting for a politician and politicians are the last people who should be trusted with political power. Let’s do this thing like jury duty, put every eligible person’s name in a hat. Make serving in office a real service, make it something that imposes a burden on the unlucky citizen whose name gets pulled.

    2. God, I remember 2000 with the hanging chads. That was a bad dream.

      WTF is it going to look like when poll watchers dispute paper ballots over signatures that don’t match up well enough to the signature on file? This will be a total nightmare.

    3. Deomcrats know that the more rules they have to disregard ballots, the more ballots they can conveniently choose to disregard.

      It’s a version of what they’re doing on a mass scale with ‘protesting,’ homelessness, race baiting, sexism: Rules for thee but not for me.

      It’s doesn’t even take a conspiracy to execute it either. They know that conservatives are far more likely to be fair and balanced in things like ballot counting.

      This is the Hope and Change they promised. By any means necessary.

      1. It’s third world bullshit

    4. Jerry, I wish voting was like taxes. It would be mandatory, secure and every vote would get counted.

      1. Lol. Mandatory on a libertarian site.

        1. I wouldn’t make it mandatory but I would incentive voting.

          1. How? This should be good.

            1. ‘Fight climate change!’
              Sorta like that.

            2. He’d pay for people’s votes except not *pay* for people’s votes… you know… just incentivize.

          2. It would be mandatory,

            Are you Joe biden?

      2. Read Jason Brennan.

      3. Damn you’re dumb.

    5. What a load of fertilizer. First we count every vote, not till some artificial deadline. The post mark is a standard for submission of items to the government. Remember your taxes don’t have to be in to the IRS office by the deadline (usually April 15th), the tax form only need to be postmarked by the deadline. Why should ballots be different? As for provisional ballots that has been used for years. People have a grace period to correct submission problems (ID, signatures, etc.). The fact is most provisional ballots never get corrected and are unlikely to affect the count. There is no real issues here, we need to take the time, count the votes and then we will know the winner. The fact is Republicans are freaking out because they know the outcome.

      1. Oh, so you’re in favor of postmarks now? You’re a racist piece of shit. And if you don’t know that demanding that things be on time is racist, you’re even more of a racist piece of shit than I thought. Postmarks? We don’t need no stinking postmarks! Count all the votes! The unsealed ones, the unsigned ones, the ones that show up three weeks late, the ones from unregistered voters, all of them! If you object to this, you’re a racist piece of shit. Or a fascist, same thing.

        1. Ideologues will not be satisfied with “democracy” until they control the outcomes. I can imagine the partisans supporting laws that would let them define voter intent, and then cast second hand ballots for them.

        2. You are throwing a lot of vague potential fraud problems out there, with no specific reference to any particular state’s mail-in voting procedures.

            1. Do you really stay up at night worrying about such things? It was obviously a clerical error, since leaving the most important part off the ballots would be too blatant to be intentional.

              Also, note that the mistake was caught and corrected. This is a story of the election system working.

              1. So nothing to see here?

                1. Right

                2. Shorter White Knight:


            1. Again, we are supposed to be worried about clerical errors? That were corrected.

              This is weak stuff.

                  1. Just a simple clerical error!

                    1. Well, yes. Come up with an example of fraud that would affect the presidential vote tally in a swing state.

                      So far, you’ve linked to three clerical errors.

                1. I asked for a specific incident we can discuss.

              1. wow! at this point you’re not even trying to hide your mendacity.

                There is obviously no possible scenario you would accept even were it a signed confession by the perpetrators with accompanying video of the act. I believe you would find a way to excuse that

                1. Not my fault that I asked R Mac to give specific examples, and he led with two boring stories about clerical errors. Yawn.

          1. I linked you the voter fraud database you lying shit. It isnt potential, it is realized. For fuck sake, can you be honest even once?

            1. You linked to a database. How in the world can we have a meaningful discussion about an entire database. I asked for specific incidents. At least R Mac understood what I was asking for.

              Nobody said there isn’t voter fraud.

      2. “count the votes and then we will know the winner”

        More like keep counting votes until you get the right winner, amirite? If there’s not enough ballots to crown old Joe, make some more.

        1. Worked for the democrats in WA a few years ago.

          1. and with al franken

      3. No. We play by the rules established by the legislature. The rules established at the start of an election cycle. Youre asking for rule changes a month out

      4. I’ll explain this just once. It isn’t election month, election week or election season. It’s election DAY. We’re not taking in endless harvested ballots until Biden gets the result his handlers have for him.

    6. Waitaminnit… are you conspiracy theorists seriously wanting us to expect dishonesty from Kleptocracy looters whose every breath is contingent upon the initiation of force?

  5. “Changing that deadline could be one way to avoid some of the possible chaos this year.”

    That’s next in the Democrat’s play book, and why they created all the chaos with their mail in ballot schemes in many different states (under the guise of protecting voters from Covid).

    But of course, changing the deadline will create even more chaos, which Biden/Schumer/Pelosi want to do (in order to win).

    Why doesn’t Boehm just say he wants Biden to win?

    1. How can it be in the Democrats’ playbook when it would never get past the Republican controlled Senate?

      1. Do you even think before you type ?

        1. Do you? You could try answering my question.

          1. Stop asking people to think for you and stop asking inane rhetorical questions like ‘how can it be in the D’s playbook…’
            If you’re so dense you can’t imagine any possible scenarios for yourself, whether or not you even agree with the scenario, then all your political opinions are meaningless and you should stop commenting here.

      2. Why do you think the shit heads you constantly defend are using the courts? Do you ever argue with facts or honesty? Courts around the country are artificially changing deadlines.

  6. What could go wrong with mail in ballots?

    See what’s going on here in Allegheny and Westmoreland Counties in western PA.

    My wife and I have received two dozen applications for a mail-in ballot so far, but still haven’t been informed by the Democrats who run Allegheny County (and spent millions of taxpayer dollars urging everyone to vote by mail) where the polling places will be located for those who want to vote in person on election day.

    Same thing happened prior to the June 2 primary. After spending two months repeatedly urging voters to vote by mail (and sending all registered voters mail in ballot applications), Allegheny County election officials waited until 5 days before the primary to notify registered voters (on a postcard that looked like unsolicited junk mail) where to vote in person, and virtually all polling places had been changed from previous years.
    Same thing

    1. I’ve gotten four applications for a mail-in ballot from the state of Michigan in the mail so far.

      1. Well worded that sentence was.

        1. Don’t with the bath water out the window throw the baby.

          1. LMFAO! That was funny.

    2. Type your address in here. It will tell you where your polling place is:


    3. What is so bad about getting multiple *applications*, other than it’s being wasteful?

      1. You seem really invested in ignoring all evidence of potential voter fraud.

        1. I mean Texas just indicted a mayoral candidate for setting up a scheme to send nursing home ballots to a p.o. box. White knight is willfully ignorant about this ahit though.

          1. I know about it. It was a stupid plan and the guy got caught.

            The only reason you know about it is that Republican propagandists are latching onto any incident of fraud they can find to try to construct a narrative in the case where Trump loses the election that it was because of Democratic election fraud.

            It is reprehensible in these times of growing divisiveness to undermine confidence in elections and further the growth of divisiveness.

            1. “ The only reason you know about it is that Republican propagandists are latching onto any incident of fraud they can find to try to construct a narrative in the case where Trump loses the election that it was because of Democratic election fraud.”

              This is an entirely plausible, and likely, outcome.

        2. Why do people here keep posting examples of clerical error when the topic is supposedly voter fraud?

  7. Here in Canada it’s still largely paper ballots and you have to show ID to vote.
    It blows me away how your media has let the Democrats say those basic anti-fraud measures are racist for so long.

    1. I don’t show my ID when I file my taxes because there’s more than one way of verifying one’s identity. That’s the real issue.

      1. Yeah. People are real worried about random thieves paying other peoples taxes.

        1. Hey, that’s pod; what do you expect?

      2. That’s probably because there’s not a massive political party whose future rests on paying your taxes for you.

        Seriously, that may be the most retarded analogy ever posted here, even accounting for Hihn and Sqrlsy.

        1. You assume that LOS actually pays net taxes.

      3. You don’t put your social security or tax ID number on them?

        So stupid.

        1. The point remains that an ID card isn’t submitted and they use other ways of verifying identify.

          1. Correct – social security or tax ID numbers, neither of which are used to verify vote integrity

            1. Let him find out the IRS has a whole division dedicated to investigating tax fraud and ask him if he wants to set one up for voting.

              1. He will if it’s run by democrat cronies to invalidate republican votes.

      4. Nobody believes you pay any taxes.

        1. You mean like Trump? You guys are such fucking losers.

          1. OK, then. Give us one vote for every $1000 in net taxes paid.

          2. And you are such a lying pile of lefty shit:
            “Over the longer term, Trump overpaid his taxes by $72 million.”

          3. Trump pays millions in taxes, just not every year.

    2. Our media isn’t just letting the Democrats say that those basic anti-fraud measures are racist, our media has been actively pushing that line themselves.

  8. Absent some sort of major October Surprise, we won’t have to wait beyond election night because Biden will be so far ahead in the EC that all the mail ballot fraud is not going to matter. Covid 19 has screwed Trump’s pooch. Penna. Republicans are now worried about saving their majority in state House and Senate, not about getting Trump re-elected. If they lose the majority, guess which party gets to re-district based on 2020 census. Lose the majority, and the Dems rule Penna. for the next decade (with help from the Dem majority Sate Supreme Court.)

    1. Delusion of the Day.

      1. If you look around you, unhindered by reporting of polls and pundit prognostications, who would you think is winning?
        That is: if we weren’t constantly being TOLD Biden is ahead, is there any evidence that would lead us to believe he is?

        1. None, whatsoever. Aside from expectation polling, literally everything else is pointing to a Trump victory. This means that either the expectation polls are useless, or everything else is. I wonder which?

        2. Looking around you isn’t a very good way of determining how the vote is likely to go,
          which is why someone invented polls.

          1. And they’ve been so accurate lately.

            1. They are what they are. Prone to error but better than simply “looking around”.

          2. “Looking around you isn’t a very good way of determining how the vote is likely to go,”

            For YOU. Some are more observant than you.

            “which is why someone invented polls”

            ACTUALLY they invented them to manipulate elections. And it worked on you.

            1. What exactly are the obvious indications pointing to Trump’s reelection? I’m not saying a Biden win is a sure thing by any means, but why exactly would it be surprising? Trump only won in 2016 by winning by about 1% or less in the decisive states against a historically unpopular opponent, while losing the popular vote and getting a share of it that was only slightly higher than John McCain’s when he lost in 08. Setting aside everything else, why would it be shocking that he could lose 4 years later if the Democrats didn’t nominate someone hated as hated as Clinton, which Biden is not by any objective measure?

              The thing about the poll conspiracies is that it has to explain why conservative polling outlets generally show a picture that is similar to or at most marginally better than other outlets. In the last week Fox News and Rasmussen have had national polls showing Biden +10 and Biden +12. If I had to bet, I would not put money on Biden winning by that much. Nonetheless, I’m pretty confident that these numbers are not the result of Fox and Rasmussen being part of some grand conspiracy to rig the election for the Democrats.

              1. http://twitter.com/EricTrump/status/1315239548872400903?s=19

                “Miami PD Estimates More Than 30,000 Cars Participated in Latinos For Trump Caravan in South Florida”

                Thank you to our Friends in the Latino community. We love and appreciate you!

                1. Ok? Impressive turnout for a car rally, but in a state that had (IIRC) around 10 million votes last time in a country that had around 130 million, 30,000 is a drop in the bucket and not exactly rigorous evidence for one candidate being favored. Tens of millions of people participated in BLM protests earlier this year, and that’s no reason to assume the dems have it in the bag.

                  Florida has been decided by about 1% in the last two elections, with Obama winning in 2012 and Trump winning last time. I don’t think either party should ever be super confident about winning Florida. And that said, trump could win Florida and still lose very plausibly if he doesn’t hold onto at least one of PA, MI, or WI. And it’s even possible he could win FL and PA and still lose if he drops the other two and loses in AZ. So the election is far from in the bag for the winner of FL.

                  In the primaries I remember Bernie supporters being super confident because of crowd sizes and the number of donors, and he ended up getting crushed. I’m not saying I think trump will lose by a similar margin as Bernie, but the candidate-specific enthusiasm of the most devoted supporters doesn’t necessarily line up with who wins the marginal voters that decide elections.

                  1. Biden can’t get 100 people to show up.
                    Cut the bullshit out.

                    1. If you’re convinced rally sizes (especially in a pandemic that Biden supporters are much more cautious about than trump supporters) are the best way to predict election results have at it. I personally don’t think that’s a very logical or rigorous predictive method and it didn’t exactly work out for Bernie fans in the primary. The vast majority of voters are normies that don’t attend political rallies or shitpost on the internet for that matter. Your vote doesn’t get extra weight if you do. Biden doesn’t need his voters to love him as much as the most devoted supporters of trump, Obama, or Bernie loved their candidates, he just needs them to vote. And negative enthusiasm is a thing – there are millions of people who don’t care much for Biden but would vote for a ham sandwich over trump. And that dynamic was key to trumps win, because many people felt the same way about Hillary.

            2. Sure, right. That’s why major campaigns pay no attention to polls.

    2. More likely is that Trump will lead on election night, with more in-person votes, but that the lead will flip as absentee votes are tallied. That will be fun.

      1. There is no indication through their behavior that the Ds think they’re legitimately ahead

  9. The way things are going it will be March before we know who won the election.

    1. You honestly think SCOTUS would allow that?

    2. It cannot go to March. There is a deadline for the electoral college.

      1. So many other things in the constitution get ignored, do you really think they will have a problem ignoring that?

        1. Yes, “they” would have a problem ignoring it. Who is “they”, by the way?

  10. Big deal. We don’t need to know the results for some weeks after the election anyway.

    1. Current law requires all state electors to have voted by the 4th Wednesday of December.

      1. So you got a month to count the votes, what is the problem?

        1. If it takes you three weeks to finish the original count, what happens when one of the campaigns demands a recount?

  11. I mean, the voting itself is stretched out in time now, so why not the counting? I don’t see what the big deal is.

    1. A very liberal person I know once told me election night was like the Super Bowl. Not getting a final score would be frustrating in that light. For the rest of the rational world, it doesn’t really matter if we have to wait.

      1. Politics and sports (and religion). Good thing Americans know the difference.

    2. Wasn’t the whole point of stretching the voting out in time to enable the counting to happen over the course of a single night, like in every election we’ve ever had before? Or are we just ignoring that part?

      1. No, it was supposed to be for voters’ convenience.

    3. Roberta: Perhaps you are too young to remember 2000, and all the politicians (including both Bush and Gore) and journalists throwing temper tantrums. American politics lacks any adult supervision, and children of any age demand instant gratification.

      My suggestions then:

      1) Bush and Gore should flip a coin for it, because given the well-known inherent inaccuracy of hand-punched cards, in a close election it was down to random chance anyhow.

      2) They should duel for it.

      3) They should duel with hand grenades at 1 pace, after which Lieberman and Cheney might be able to settle it like adults.

  12. So reason is just delaying the journolist narrative by a week to seem as if they aren’t on it?

    1. Why are you here? Why do you torture yourself by coming here every day and spending several hours on a site that you do not like?

      It’s sadly, sadly pathetic.

      1. I mean not as sadly pathetic as the Canadian who is doing the same thing. At least you live in the United States.

        1. Pathetic, says the poster who has admitted his entire reason for being is to whine.

        2. I obsess you, huh.

          Poor WK has been told all her life that Canadians unanimously support team D, so Rufus and I are incurring crisis of belief right now. She’s lashing out.

          1. I can barely wrap my head around how xe/xer is still going on about this.

        3. Do you still not realize how jaw-droppingly stupid you sound saying this ?

          I’m not going to explain this for a 5th time, all I’m gonna is say is dam boy, u ignint.

      2. Damn it Dee, shut the fuck up.

      3. I’m here for honest argumentation. Why it is worthless to discuss shit with you, Jeff, and your other names.

        Do you want a bubble so you can believe yourself to be smart. I go wbere an opinion can be tested.

        While you don’t meet that metric, other posters do.

        1. You are here for a CACLL echo chamber, and you lose your shit anytime a libertarian points out the holes in the conservative / pro-Trump narrative.

          1. Your life doesn’t matter

  13. Maybe it is time to consider who deserves to live in the US, or at least who agrees to abide by core philosophical and legal principles. Those who readily sacrifice freedom, their own and that of others, in order to gain a feeling of safety, should be encouraged to migrate to other nanny states.

    Voting is important. And important enough to tolerate some risk. We can offer cliches (based in truth) about blood spilled to gain and hold democratic access, ranging from Bunker Hill to Selma. What would the heroes of those efforts say about whiny modern Americans afraid to stand in line to vote?

    Offering only in-person voting could be a first step in qualifying as an American.

    1. That’s silly. There’s nothing wrong with mail-in voting. Trump himself votes by mail.

      1. Still ignorant of the difference between absentee voting and what this conversation is about, despite it being explained several times? Or, have you decided to go full dishonest piece of shit like you’re buddy Lying Jeffy?

        1. It’s called “gaslighting” and it’s all defective leftists have.

          1. Nardz, give the projector a rest, you’re gonna burn the thing out.

            It is obvious to those outside the trump fan club that the big hang up with mail in voting is that increased voter turn out is generally bad for Republicans and mail in voting is expected to increase turn out.

            We can just be honest about the issue here. We’re libertarians and classical liberals who are a few levels above simple partisans trying to win an empty rhetorical argument, right?

            The hand wringing about massive conspiracies is dishonest and embarrassing.

            1. No, you’re not any kind of classic liberal.
              You’re an establishment boot licker who’d get the fuck out and move to Europe if you had any integrity.

        2. There is no difference between mail-in voting and absentee voting.

          The real potential problem, which the Trump camp has done a poor job of articulating, is massive scaling up of mail-in voting in swing states where they don’t have the infrastructure to deal with it. The most likely consequence, as the article above explains, is taking a long time to count the votes, and Trump partisans being assholes about accepting the results when, as it likely to go, the tally grows for Biden as mail-in votes are counted.

          The problem for Trump supporters in accurately describing the problem is that it ain’t that bad of a problem, and the next logical question the adults in the room would ask Trump is: what are you doing to help the situation?

  14. http://twitter.com/OrwellNGoode/status/1314757966898376705?s=19

    Yea, this kid’s going to totes have a healthy and fulfilling life…

    1. Cripes that’s sad.

      America is in the midst of a weird Marxist class war, with the haute bourgeoisie and lumpenproles rebelling against the petite bourgeoisie and the working classes.
      Shaming a little child for things they can’t control is its fruit.

  15. http://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1314796087862087680?s=19

    The Denver Communists group is organizing a BLM-antifa event that is part soup drive and part confrontation of a patriot-themed event. #AntifaRiots

    1. WTF?! It’s unbelievable. The one can of soup has a hammer and sickle on it.

    2. The ‘soup drive’ is a play on words which actually refers to throwing cans. Take a closer look at the flag in the post.

  16. http://twitter.com/rossjonesWXYZ/status/1314581815815004160?s=19

    This interview with a sitting sheriff in Michigan is absolutely wild.

    1. It’s only wild because it’s MI. In IL it’s called ‘hedging your bets’. Because you never know when you may be called upon to execute a felony arrest against a sitting Governor.

  17. This one’s just fun


    Proud Boys vs Antifa ????
    (Violence Alert)

  18. http://twitter.com/TheDamaniFelder/status/1314675734871408641?s=19

    Liberal privilege is putting a BLM or Biden/Harris sign in your front yard and knowing Conservatives won’t attack your house. Because we’re not animals.

    1. But it’s cool if you are a conservative to go online and act like an asshole, tell other people to fuck off, call them fat and accuse them, baselessly, of being pedophiles. And none of that online behavior would ever leak over into the real world.

      1. You’re a fat pedophile. Fuck off.

        1. Clever.

        2. Hey, he’s stronger than dirt!

      2. Don’t forget stealing handles fuckface.

      3. And jeff puts his obese self.

        1. ^^^

          yea lol that was my first reaction. Whadda putz. The funniest part about the whole Fat Jeff revelation is that had he not admitted it, no one would have actually known and it would have just gone away eventually. oops.

        2. And now he’s basically given away that he’s WK which isn’t exactly a shocker.

  19. Why are we even having an election at all? We already know that anybody who votes for Trump is a bad, evil, wicked person or a retard and votes by bad, evil, wicked people and retards shouldn’t count.

    1. Official immoral disenfranchisement is coming.

    2. Every day here I see parallel comments about how evil Democrats are.

      1. See two comments down where Nardz cherry picked some weird story about a liberal throwing a puppy at someone.

        1. So you’ve seen a conservative throw a puppy at someone?
          You deserve a painful death, and your family deserves the relief and pleasure such an event would grant them.

          1. “So you’ve seen a conservative throw a puppy at someone?”


      2. parallel comments about how evil Democrats are.

        They are, but unlike your team nobody who notes the fact says that should preclude them from voting.

  20. http://twitter.com/UN_Women/status/1314227817987690496?s=19

    Let’s interrupt the gender bias instead of the women who are speaking.

    We can all help stop the cycle of manterruption by recognizing it, calling it out, and stopping an interrupter in his (or her) tracks.

  21. http://twitter.com/SJPFISH/status/1314913614361505792?s=19

    Absolutely INSANE ???? Liberal Woman Stalks a Man & Throws A Puppy At Him

    Despicable !

    1. Puppy? Who throws a puppy?

      Looked Mal-ish—poor dog—and looked like the aftermath of a really bad break-up. You can stick it in crazy, but don’t let crazy know where you live. Or give crazy a baby.

      1. Or a puppy.

        1. That video makes me very angry.

          1. I didn’t even click it. Glad I didn’t.

    2. Hogtie her. Drop her in the back of the cruiser on her face, let her ride like that all the way to the precinct. The puppy doesn’t even really bug me that much.

      We wouldn’t dare let a 200 lb. guy get away with the bullshit she’s pulled. She’s violent, knows she’s crazy, and is strutting around like she’s a 220 lb. roid monster about to fuck shit up. What she really needs is a 175 lb. 50-yr.-old black or latina woman to smack that skinny white bitch privilege right the fuck out of her.

  22. http://twitter.com/me_think_free/status/1314718059400224776?s=19

    50 million people tuned in for the Rush -Trump interview. 50 million.

    1. Yet conservatives are being persecuted by “the media”.

      1. You should look up “non sequitur”. And quit making an ass of yourself.

        1. White knight has a new schtick where she makes herself look stupid by not understanding what the mainstream media is.

          1. Defining mainstream media as all media that is not pro-Trump is what is stupid. It’s pure confirmation bias in service to the conservatives-as-victims narrative.

            1. Your life doesn’t matter.

      2. “the media”
        *Rush Limbaugh’s radio show*

        Media Matters should demand its fifty-cents back from you.

  23. http://twitter.com/RichardGrenell/status/1314933814909693954?s=19

    Biden says “no” when asked if voters deserve to know how he feels on an issue before the election.

    Washigton DC politicians and the DC media think we are stupid.

  24. http://twitter.com/FabioQanon/status/1314944274564349956?s=19

    This is happening in Miami for @realDonaldTrump right now!

  25. http://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1314942363652026368?s=19

    “After Yelp announced plans to place alerts on businesses accused of ‘racist behavior,’ an Antifa group responsible for organizing the violent Portland riots is now compiling a blacklist of pro-police and anti-Black Lives Matter companies.”

    1. I heard Yelp is racist. Where do I report that?

      1. yellowpages.com

  26. http://twitter.com/TulsiGabbard/status/1314646887027236864?s=19

    Republicans, Democrats & Independents, consider this fact:
    Many Members of Congress speak out against voter harvesting. Only four have signed onto our bipartisan bill to end voter harvesting. If you want to protect our democracy, tell your rep to walk the talk. Support HR8285

  27. http://twitter.com/SimonPearson961/status/1314640916070780928?s=19

    It seems a phrase has been globally adopted.

    1. A bunch of people adopting a slogan. Pretty darn nefarious.

      Oh, by the way: Make America Great Again!

      1. It’s not surprising that you don’t understand what’s going on here.

        1. She does, but honesty isn’t her job.

      2. So you admit it’s as coordinated as a campaign slogan?

        1. Yes. It says right in the tweet that someone at the UN came up with it. It’s not some secret.

    1. I know a lot of Trump voters who keep their mouths locked shut in political conversations… and I’m in Texas.

      I still think it’s going to be a landslide for Trump, but I have to admit, the last couple of weeks have me nervous.

      No one knows how many Trump voters are going to come out of the woodwork and how many law and order types are going to vote in an election they normally wouldn’t.

      But I will say this, it’s very telling when people can’t openly speak about supporting a sitting President who has been falsely and viciously attacked countless times by the opposing party. Trump doesn’t play the victim, but in the last 4 years he has been.

      The media has successfully silenced the political voice of millions of people. I can only hope that the ballot box will show them we are not all dupes in their schemes and there are prices to be paid for Treason.

      1. “Trump doesn’t play the victim”

        That’s hilarious.

        1. Not as funny as a dog whistle racist with the handle “White Knight.” Shouldn’t you be out looting or rioting or something in the name of one of your heroes?

          1. White Knight is a name you guys gave me, accusing me of “white knighting” for Reason, as if it were a controversial thing to be sticking up for a wonderful libertarian institution on their own website.

            1. Then you white knighted for racism, which showed you to be an even bigger joke than you already were.

              1. It’s statements like this where you CACLLs betray that you have no interest in honest discussion. (Exception of Ken and soldiermedic, who are two sincere people, noted.)

            2. wonderful libertarian institution on their own website

              If you think Reason’s been remotely libertarian lately, you don’t understand what the word means.

              1. If you think they haven’t it’s a good indication you are a Trump sycophant.

                1. Explain why you think that the premise of this article from Thursday was even remotely libertarian:


            3. The White Knight
              October.10.2020 at 12:47 pm
              White Knight is a name you guys gave me

              ACTUALLY, since no one here has access to your account, just like the screen names you stole, you CHOSE “White Knight” then typed it in and saved it.

              That’s all you racist.

              1. I vaguely remember that, which means WK is probably also DOL or Sarcasmic.

              2. That was an idiotic argument. It was clear in context what I meant by “you guys named me”.

            4. You don’t stick up for an institution. You advocate for an intellectual bubble free of criticism. Youre an idiot without a valid thought.

              1. All you have is insults and misquoting people. It betrays your lack of firm ground to stand on.

      2. How about the secret non-Trump voter. The person living out in rural America who has come to realize that Trump is not just boorish he is also incompetent. They may not want to say that in public, but they are not going to be fooled a second time. I am waiting to see how many 2016 Trump voters, are anybody but Trump in 2020.

        1. ^this is the fantasy character they’ll use to cast their fraud

          1. It’s also White Knight’s sockpuppet.

  28. So we all know the story of debate moderator Steve Scully having his Twitter account hacked wherein it appeared that he was asking Steve Scaramucci for advice on how to handle Trump (even though we all know he really wasn’t because he’s a fair and impartial moderator and in no way could possibly show any bias against Trump) but here’s the question I have: Was Steve Scaramucci’s account hacked as well? Because it appears that Steve Scaramucci actually replied to whoever it was that hacked Scully’s account with a “Ignore. He is having a hard enough time. Some more bad stuff about to go down.” and if Steve Scaramucci’s account wasn’t also hacked as well, it seems like some intrepid journalist might be digging into the question of just what the hell Scaramucci meant by “more bad stuff about to go down”. Since I don’t see anybody digging into that question, I can only conclude that it’s general knowledge that Scaramucci’s account was hacked as well and both ends of that exchange were totally fake and never happened.

    1. I like that Mollie Hemingway reached out to the Commission to ask on the progress of the investigation of the hacking. She was sent to a full voicemail box, naturally.

  29. We will never know who actually won this “election”. The next president will be installed by the courts and the military.

    1. “Installed,” who would ever use such a term?

      1. Mussolini?

      2. RBG according to her daughter.

    2. The military has flatly stated they will not get involved. If Trump were to literally refuse to leave the White House, the Secret Service would remove him.

      1. It’s amazing to watch people who’ve pitched a four-year long tantrum replete with a coup attempt, speculate about the peaceful transfer of power.

      2. Cite?

        ‘The military’ is 3 million people. Did you check all their ID cards?

      3. “the Secret Service would remove him”

        Whether or not it could be shown that he lost the election?

    3. Why would Trump need them this time?
      Despite the democrats refusing to accept the results of 2016 to this day, there was no need for the military.

      1. That’s because we held a countable election. That’s not going to happen this time.

  30. we may not know who won, but at least we’ll know right away the american people lost, so there that

    1. We know that now.

  31. As one buzzard said to the other, “patience my ass! I’m gonna go out and kill something”

    If Trump hasn’t been declared a landslide winner by 3PM (ET) on election day, there are going to be some peaceful protests.

    1. We don’t choose presidents by declaration. We do it by counting the votes. This time, the election will be such a cluster fuck that we will never have an honest count.

      1. And how is that new?

  32. Make 6,000 dollar to 8,000 dollar A Month Online With No Prior Experience Or Skills Required. Be Your Own Boss AndChoose Your Own Work Hours.Thanks A lot Here>>>Read More.

  33. http://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1314967386035023873?s=19

    Ketih Olbermann went on a Hitlerian rant calling for “maggots” (magats) to be removed from society

    He is talking about 60+ million people

  34. http://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1315007794802831361?s=19

    BREAKING: 2,000 mostly black and Hispanic Trump supporters are marching on BLM plaza in DC

    They are marching to show America that you don’t have to vote Democrat just because you were born brown or black

    Support for Trump is much greater than the dishonest polls lead on

  35. http://twitter.com/christianlasval/status/1314948614842658827?s=19

    The media won’t talk about it, but there are THOUSANDS of Miami residents out in a car parade right now for @realDonaldTrump!! Cuban Americans will KEEP FLORIDA RED, help re-elect TRUMP, AND KEEP REPUBLICAN MAJORITIES TO SAVE AMERICA

  36. http://twitter.com/davidharsanyi/status/1314879768471441410?s=19

    So that Whitmer kidnapping plot by MAGA supporters?

    “One of alleged plotters … attended a Black Lives Matter protest in June, telling the Oakland County Times he was upset about the killing of George Floyd and police violence.”

  37. http://twitter.com/catturd2/status/1314919001777156098?s=19

    Nobody wants to see the leader of the free world on his knees.

    Seriously, who would vote for this laughingstock?


    1. Oh, boy, a photo with no context given.

    2. Finally a return to wholesome Americana.

      Sick of this Nazi crap.

  38. http://twitter.com/SeanParnellUSA/status/1315019784409559041?s=19

    This is in #PA17. Ballot harvesting & improper voting procedures at satellite locations. Poll watchers denied access.
    We’ve asked the Democrats to explain & all we’ve gotten were BS excuses.
    This is brazen attempt to compromise the integrity of our elections & must be stopped.

    1. Kinda vague description of what he claims to have seen.

  39. Another completely unlibertarian stance at Reason.

    How about we demand, in the age of instantaneous global information flow, that government get its fucking act together and overhaul its voting procedures to reduce error and improve turnaround?

    The notion that it should be excusable, let alone necessary, to wait weeks for a vote result in the modern era is fucking retarded.

    1. What if you need weeks in order to figure out how many fake votes are required in order to put your candidate over the top, and where they need to be found?

      1. That is the concern. We’ve seen such things happen in other elections where a slim, yet solid, victory margin for Republicans turns into a very slim democrat win after questionable recounts and ballots being “found.”
        I don’t trust the system. I don’t trust those who count votes in way too many districts. The current mail in election procedures seem to me to offer far too much discretion for those tallying votes to accept or reject ballots in a partisan manner. It makes it too easy to send in the ballots we keep hearing showing up to wrong addresses.
        I truly question why mail in ballots aren’t supposed to be postmarked a week or two prior to the election. Why not ensure that all eligible ballots arrive before final ballots are cast in person? Why do people need a month or more before an election to go to the polls? It seems to me that voter access has been expanded far beyond what is reasonable and is now a series of major vulnerabilities rife for exploitation.

    2. Don’t see how how quickly the vote is tallied is a libertarian issue. Getting the correct count is, but what in libertarianism argues for speed?

      1. Getting the correct count is, but what in libertarianism argues for speed?

        Libertarian elections simply would be usually efficient and secure, unlike government run elections, which are usually inefficient, insecure, and manipulated by political interests.

        1. Who runs the elections then?

          1. The same kind of people who today run elections that are not run by government.

  40. Trump is unlikely to change his behavior between now and November. That’s why it is incumbent on voters to be informed about the process and willing to accept that slow election results are more likely to be the result of the unprecedented circumstances than deliberate malfeasance.

    Boehm is too naive to write for anything except a third grade public school class news letter.

    With all the money the Koch Foundation has to throw around, why in the name of everything holy can’t they hire somebody who has learned some history and can think?

    1. Somehow missed blockquote around Boehm quote.

      1. Did you have a point? If so, please use English.

        1. LOL, you are so full of anger, you just yelled at someone who was trying to signal that he is on your side.

  41. Got the ‘absentee’ ballot today.
    Wife and I have been filing mail-in ballots for years, and let’s be clear here: We live in CA. Our ballots don’t matter. In fact they wouldn’t matter if we voted the D ticket all the way down; the Ds have made CA a only-party state, so even votes for Ds are irrelevant. Suffice to say, there is no hint on my part that the Ds would bother faking, or ‘harvesting’, or ‘assisting’ voter’s choices regarding statewide or national candidates.
    Locally, there certainly is; Willie Brown admitted to ‘voter assistance’ in SF’s China Town.
    OK, so what?
    Well, we have the “INDIVIDUAL BAR CODE!!!
    Well, wife and I have been voting by mail for years; whatever government agency is ‘confirming;

    1. Fuck you, Welsh. Get a job and let someone run the place and hire some web managers. This year, expect a check for $2.00, unless you fuck up worse yet; check for $0.00.

      Got the ‘absentee’ ballot today.
      Wife and I have been filing mail-in ballots for years, and let’s be clear here: We live in CA. Our ballots don’t matter. In fact they wouldn’t matter if we voted the D ticket all the way down; the Ds have made CA a only-party state, so even votes for Ds are irrelevant. Suffice to say, there is no hint on my part that the Ds would bother faking, or ‘harvesting’, or ‘assisting’ voter’s choices regarding statewide or national candidates.
      Locally, there certainly is; Willie Brown admitted to ‘voter assistance’ in SF’s China Town.
      OK, so what?
      Well, we have the “INDIVIDUAL BAR CODE!!!
      Well, wife and I have been voting by mail for years; whatever government agency is ‘confirming’ the signatures has some history of ours.
      Further, if you can’t write your signature, you can sign with an X and get someone else (maybe the person ‘helping’ you) to countersign.
      But be assured that the ballot which may or may not have been filled out by the addressee has that individual bar code, regardless of whether there is a signature on file or not, and whether the CA agency has staff enough to look at every damn signature rolling through.
      If you live in CA, your vote is irrelevant for several reasons. If you live where your vote might count, you got issues.

      1. People who suddenly all at once this election decided that mail voting is a problem, despite the fact that they’d been doing it for years, are a fucking funny joke. You’re a joke.

  42. We all know who’s going to lose though.

    1. The Cincinnati Bengals?

  43. That’s a good enough reason all on its own to never do mail-in ballots ever again.

    1. Despite the fact that several states have been using exclusive mail-in balloting for years now with no problems. Despite the fact that Trump himself voted by mail and encouraged Florida Republicans to vote by mail.

      1. Despite the fact that several states have been using exclusive mail-in balloting for years now with no problems.

        Communist East Germany held elections with “no problems” every few years. That doesn’t mean they were free and fair elections.

        1. Thank god you’re here, where would we be without your uncanny ability to detect threats to democracy.

          1. What are you talking about? East Germany was a democracy, with regular elections; it’s even in the name. Why would it be a “threat to democracy”?

            East Germany was governed by a dominant single party that believed in government based on science and reason, economic justice, and socialized healthcare/education/retirement. That party was so fabulous everybody voted for it. And if you didn’t, they would even invest in your (re)education until you understood how rational the government was.

            Even Bernie Sanders loved and supported East Germany.

            1. So which branches of government is it optimal for Democrats to control, since you object to single-party rule?

              1. So which branches of government is it optimal for Democrats to control, since you object to single-party rule?

                Ideally? There shouldn’t be any parties or any branches of government for them to control.

      2. Despite the fact that Trump himself voted by mail and encouraged Florida Republicans to vote by mail.

        I am very much opposed to Social Security as a program. But since it’s the law of the land, I intend to get every penny out of that program that I can get out of it.

        There is nothing contradictory about opposing something while simultaneously taking advantage of it while it is the law of the land.

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  46. Changing that deadline could be one way to avoid some of the possible chaos this year

    35 days is more than enough time to verify mask in ballots.

    The only reason we have chaos is because Democrats want it to be so. They have created rules and procedures for that very purpose, starting with universal mail in voting itself.

    1. Curious statement on your part: “we have chaos”. We have predictions of chaos, by the candidate who is behind in the polls, and his propagandists.

      1. US elections have been chaotic for many years. Orderly elections use a uniform, paper-based voting procedure for the entire country; clear and uniform procedures for counting; require in person voting unless there is a valid reason for an exemption; don’t count foreigners for districting; require identification for voting; require a verifiable residential address for voter registration. None of these basic, rational procedures for voting are followed in the US.

        1. If you’re enacting restrictions that reduce participation but that solve no existing problem, one gets the impression that your only motive is to reduce participation.

          How the census is done is a completely separate matter, and you’ll have to explain what is gained by having less accurate data about the population of the country. And then explain what problem you are trying to solve by amending the constitution to have a citizen-only count.

          1. And then explain what problem you are trying to solve

            I’m not trying to solve a problem; the US election system is hopelessly corrupt and chaotic and won’t ever get fixed; the US will self-destruct before that happens.

            I’m simply pointing out the hypocrisy of Democrats claiming to be the party of progress, reason, and science and pointing at “other advanced nations”, while at the same time promoting a voting system that is absurd and leads to chaos again and again.

            How the census is done is a completely separate matter

            I agree! In a rational system, the Census would not be used for districting or political purposes at all. Instead, districting, voter registration, income taxes, driver’s licenses, Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and real estate/rental taxes would all use a single official residential address for every citizen and resident. That’s what progressive, rational states do, the kinds of state Democrats claim to be in favor of, but in practice sabotage again and again.

            1. We couldn’t agree more on the need for election reform. I’ll list all my many grievances with our system if you like.

              I’m not sure what you’re proposing about changing apportionment. I’m for a wholesale reimagining of our system of government, but the data from the Census (or some kind of census) would necessarily get involved in apportionment and any number of political questions. You may need to elaborate.

              1. I’m not sure what you’re proposing about changing apportionment. I’m for a wholesale reimagining of our system of government, but the data from the Census (or some kind of census) would necessarily get involved in apportionment and any number of political questions. You may need to elaborate.

                I explained to you how it works in other nations: everybody gives the government a single residential address for all government interactions; that address is used for voter registration, redistricting, taxes, benefits, jury duty, etc. No Census is needed.

                We couldn’t agree more on the need for election reform. I’ll list all my many grievances with our system if you like.

                Your grievances are of no interest to me. I’m simply observing that US elections have been chaotic for decades, while other advanced democracies have orderly and trustworthy elections. Republicans have been trying to implement some of those approaches other nations use, and Democrats have been objecting based on debunked and racist accusations of “voter disenfranchisement”.

                US elections are chaotic because it serves the interests of Democrats, nothing more.

  47. If the election is a mess, there will be two proximate causes: the pandemic and Trump, in increasing order of blame.

    No to accepting a legitimate loss
    Yes to uninvited “poll watchers” breaking most state laws
    Yes to completely unfounded conspiracy theories about mail ballots
    Yes to purging voter rolls, limiting polling stations, the Florida poll tax

    Trump is not the candidate of law and order on this issue.

  48. No to accepting a legitimate loss

    You’re using weasel words here. What you do you mean by “not accepting”? Do you mean that Republicans go around claiming that Biden is not the legitimate president, like Democrats have done for four years to Trump? Do you mean that Republicans go around trying to impeach Biden for no good cause for four years, like Democrats have done for four years to Trump? Or what?

    Yes to uninvited “poll watchers” breaking most state laws

    Don’t worry: the RNC is recruiting tens of thousands of poll watchers and inviting them to watch the polls, in compliance with state and federal law.

    Yes to completely unfounded conspiracy theories about mail ballots

    Can you explain what those conspiracy theories are, because I don’t know of any.

    There is legitimate concern that mail-in ballots in some states have the potential for widespread fraud.

    Yes to purging voter rolls, limiting polling stations

    Can you explain what problem you have with either of those?

    the Florida poll tax

    It’s not a “poll tax”; SCOTUS said so. It’s a requirement for convicted felons to complete their sentence before voting again.

    Any other misconceptions you want to show off in broad daylight, Tony?

    1. Do you mean that Republicans go around claiming that Biden is not the legitimate president, like Democrats have done for four years to Trump?

      No, I mean just what Trump has said. That he won’t commit to conceding the election if he loses. Democrats don’t think Trump won because of voter fraud or even ballot stuffing by Russians. They think he won legitimately in a system run by terrible rules that let the loser of the vote win the election, with the aid of in-kind campaign contributions from the Russian government.

      There is legitimate concern that mail-in ballots in some states have the potential for widespread fraud.

      No, there isn’t. Every utterance about mail-in voter fraud is propaganda for Trump. He learned one day that Democrats tend to vote by mail more often, and so his campaign decided to concoct lies calling the practice into question. I know this because I’m aware of the total lack of evidence for any such claims.

      If you care about an election free of corruption, ask yourself why one of the participants is suddenly concocting lies about its legitimacy. What does he intend to do about mail-in ballots?

      Can you explain what problem you have with either of those?

      It should be obvious why anyone would have a problem with removing people from voter rolls who have a right to vote. Ditto for closing all but one polling station in a county that contains Dallas. The motive is obviously to make it harder for people to vote in districts where Democrats live. If you aren’t aware of this, I can’t imagine how you’d come to the conclusion that it’s OK on you’re on.

      1. That he won’t commit to conceding the election if he loses.

        Yes, he won’t say “I concede” until all the legal challenges have been exhausted. I.e., the same as any other presidential candidate before him. Why do you get your panties in a knot over this?

        No, there isn’t. Every utterance about mail-in voter fraud is propaganda for Trump

        That’s your belief, not a fact.

        It should be obvious why anyone would have a problem with removing people from voter rolls who have a right to vote.

        Purging the voter rolls refers to removing people with invalid registrations, for example because they are deceased, their addresses are incorrect, or they are registered multiple times. Of course, such people should be removed; why is that even a question?

        Ditto for closing all but one polling station in a county that contains Dallas.

        The county that contains Dallas is Dallas County. It has nearly 400 polling stations. You can find them on their web site.

  49. The sure fire way you can tell when things are fishy is when they take longer than they should. It’s 2020 — can’t we have a cell phone app that securely transmits our votes and gives us the winner in real time, like the Democrats used in the Iowa circuses?

  50. For most of the history of this country, we were not able to count ballots and get the information out on election night. It took weeks for the information to travel by water or horseback. Counting votes from remote rural areas over a huge continental sized nation? How did they do that in 1800? Even in 1865 with the telegraph, it took a long time.

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  53. There may not be an issue with widespread voter fraud, even with many states cobbling together a system for this election. There doesn’t need to be “widespread” fraud. All you’d need to do is identify the key counties in a few key “swing” states, and that’s where you do “ballot harvesting” or other types of ballot fraud to flip one or two states your way and push the Electoral College onto your side.

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