Coronavirus

The Post-Pandemic 'New Normal' Looks Awfully Authoritarian

Less-intrusive responses could preserve our health while leaving our freedom intact.

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We're told that life is never getting back to normal, so we need to suck it up and accept a world of mask-wearing, economic disruption, and social distancing. It's a denatured echo of the warnings we've heard before that government responses to COVID-19 are pushing the world toward authoritarianism—but dressed up as if that's a good thing.

That's unfortunate, given that less-intrusive responses to the pandemic are proving at least as effective as heavy-handed ones. And that's before we even discuss the inherent value of the freedom that looks destined to be pushed aside by public health concerns  and by disingenuous government officials.

"As 2020 slides into and probably infects 2021, try to take heart in one discomfiting fact: Things are most likely never going 'back to normal,'" wrote CNN International Security Editor Nick Paton Walsh last week. In his piece he discusses the likely permanency of mask mandates, telecommuting, reduced physical contact, and similar changes to life.

Some of the alterations Walsh mentions may be matters of personal choice, but a good many of them are imposed by "politicians who pretend that 'normal' is just around the corner," as Babson College's Thomas Davenport says in the article.

We're supposed to accept our newly constrained lives as "the new normal"—in a phrasing that's already very tired, indeed.

Actually, repeated references to a "new normal" aren't just tired; they're ominous.

"As the need for an extension of quarantine into the summer or beyond seems likelier, the new normal will certainly include unanticipated trade-offs," Andy Wang warned in May in the Harvard International Review. "The central irony of the crisis may be that the very methods that liberal democracies are currently using to effectively fight the virus are the same tactics that authoritarian leaders use to dominate their people. While the world is not sinking into authoritarianism, a post-quarantine world could be less democratic than its previous iteration; the tools that have been temporarily deployed in the fight against a once-in-a-lifetime disease may become permanent."

These authoritarian tools may become permanent because government officials are rarely punished for doing something, even if the something is awful and counterproductive. It's leaving things alone to be worked out by individuals according to their own priorities and preferences for which politicians get called out.

In addition, people who go into government tend to be the sort who naturally gravitate toward using power. And crises are excellent excuses for accumulating unprecedented authority and using it in novel ways.

"For authoritarian-minded leaders, the coronavirus crisis is offering a convenient pretext to silence critics and consolidate power," Human Rights Watch cautioned in April.

"The 'lockdown measures' adopted by many European states have disproportionately impacted racialized individuals and groups who were targeted with violence, discriminatory identity checks, forced quarantines and fines," Amnesty International reported in June.

"Governments around the world must take action to protect and promote freedom of expression during the COVID-19 pandemic, which many States have exploited to crack down on journalism and silence criticism," the UN Special Rapporteur on Freedom of Expression noted in July.

The U.S. has hardly been immune to public health-driven authoritarianism during the pandemic.

"In halls of power across the country, the growing novel coronavirus pandemic has sometimes been used to stretch, bend or ignore established law and policy," Jenny B. Davis wrote for the ABA Journal in April. "Fundamental freedoms, privacy protections and access to justice have been curtailed in the name of public safety, with legal justifications ranging from appropriate to patently inaccurate."

Since then, judges have overruled some officials, including the governors of Michigan and Pennsylvania, who overstepped their authority and violated fundamental rights.

"The Constitution cannot accept the concept of a 'new normal' where the basic liberties of the people can be subordinated to open-ended emergency-mitigation measures," wrote U.S. District Judge William S. Stickman IV in his September 14 decision regarding Pennsylvania's public health rules. "Rather, the Constitution sets certain lines that may not be crossed, even in an emergency."

And yet, local Florida authorities vow to keep fining people who don't wear masks in public even after the governor told them to stop. And New York City is forcing schools, restaurants, and other businesses to close again in nine neighborhoods, all in the name of fighting the spread of COVID-19. Public health excuses continue to ride roughshod over protections for individual rights.

This should be remarkable even to people who, for some reason, don't especially care about "fundamental freedoms" and constitutional "lines that may not be crossed," because authoritarian lockdowns are certainly not the only way forward.

"In Sweden, new infections, if tipping upward slightly, still remained surprisingly low," The New York Times noted last week. "Almost alone in the Western world, the Swedes refused to impose a coronavirus lockdown last spring, as the country's leading health officials argued that limited restrictions were sufficient and would better protect against economic collapse," the article added.

It's not that Sweden did everything right on the issue, or that it completely avoided the effects of COVID-19. Instead, the country seems to have pulled through a difficult period at least as well as other countries without disrupting life or indulging the power-grab fantasies of government officials.

Sweden serves as an indication that respecting people's liberty doesn't inherently pose a health threat, and that a virus shouldn't be used as an automatic excuse for forcibly curtailing normal life. And, once the virus passes, there will be a minimum of authoritarian detritus for Sweden's residents to clear away.

Lucky Sweden.

For the rest of us, the pandemic is likely to leave lingering damage. The "new normal" of life after COVID-19 threatens to look a lot like old-fashioned authoritarianism.

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  1. “Multiculturalism” is a program that is FORCED upon EVERY & ONLY White countries.
    “Multiculturalism” is a program to turn EVERY White country into a non-White country.
    This is Genocide. WHITE Genocide.
    If you are White, and you object to your own Genocide, you are called a RACIST!
    Well guess what, my people, White people, are catching on very quickly to the following two things:
    1 – Multiculturalism is a code word for White Genocide.
    2 – Anti-racist is a code word for anti-White.

    1. Fuck off with your racial identity politics BS. You’ve made your position clear.

      1. Second that.

        1. All in favor say “Aye”.

          Aye.

            1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new… after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

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            2. ..and the motion passes.

          1. I

      2. He’s posting the truth though. Why are you scared of it?

        1. put your “truth” back where you pulled it from.

          wash your hands afterward

        2. White grievance for loss of your special privileges is no basis for a system of government. The reason why masks are different is wearing a cloth mask protects those around you. It’s not like a seatbelt that only protects the driver or passengers.

          On the issue of coronavirus, the primary western country that got a lot of attention for not doing much about covid19 was Sweden, and they did much worse than their Scandanivian neighors Norway, Finland and Denmark. Per million death rates (from WorldMeters dot info.

          Sweden 583 (deaths per million)
          Finland 62 (not 600 something, 62)
          Norway 51
          Denmark 114

          Sweden killed about 4000 more people extra than they should have, had their death rates matched their neighbors. Estimates are if there is no vaccine, the US will have about 2 million deaths if we wait till almost everyone has it (the 70 or 80% herd immunity), and that depends on not getting it again. So it’s obviously idiotic to “be like Sweden” in this way. Most of the countries in the world had much lower death rates per capita than the US (#10 worldwide), and almost all those socialst national health care systems did better than us. Our peers in poor performance are Peru, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile. Belgium did worse than us, but UK, Mexico, Italy, Sweden, Panama, Columbia, etc did better than us, per capita death rates.

          1. Sweden counts “with covid”, the others count “of covid”.

            You’re welcome.

          2. Sweden admits that they made the same types of mistakes as NY, NJ and failed to protect their elderly. Properly handled their death rate would be much lower and closer to the other Scandinavian countries. Moreover, their neighbors are not the only appropriate comparison – they are comparable or better than many other Western democracies without pointless lockdowns.

            Cloth masks don’t do squat for anyone, The only serious studies show that N95 and 16 ply surgical masks MAY (not DO just MAY) have an effect on the transmission of flu virus in a medical environment. COVID is more easily transmitted than flu and these ridiculous scraps we are forced to wear are completely pointless especially outside of hospitals.

            Are you really foolish enough to use “projections” in the millions again? How did that work last time? No one came close to those absurd numbers. While we are on the topic of Sweden, the projections for them were ““the current Swedish public-health strategy will result in a peak intensive-care load in May that exceeds pre-pandemic capacity by over 40-fold, with a median mortality of 96,000 (95% CI 52,000 to 183,000)” being realized by the end of June.” https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.11.20062133v1

            That is 16 times the actual mortality, despite the absence of a lockdown. The US is still at a tenth of the early models’ projections and that is using a definition for mortality that was not known at the time those projections were made. Counting deaths with COVID instead of FROM it grossly overstates the death toll. No other disease is ever automatically credited as the primary cause over every other contributing factor – with the average “COVID death” in the US had 2.6 comorbidities, often representing much more lethal diseases. Even the public health authorities who made this policy acknowledge it inflates the numbers – they just can’t say by how much.

            When the deaths are properly categorized (and medical professionals around the world are calling for this) the death toll will plummet for most Western democracies. They are the largely the only countries with both the medical infrastructure to keep accurate statistics and the political capacity to enforce a reasonable level of transparency (in other words if you really believe Russia, China, Iran, Mexico, etc, etc have kept and publicized reliable numbers then you have a highly unrealistic understanding of the COVID stats).

            You can voluntarily give up your rights and liberty all you want. No one will stop you, Just GTF out of the way of the rest of the population.

          3. Roughly half of Sweden’s death rate difference vs Finland/Norway/Denmark is because the previous flu season in Sweden was very light compared to what the other Nordic countries experienced. That relationship between death rates and previous season numbers is quite remarkable and holds for all of Europe, as far as I can tell.

            1. ^^this^^ look up the dry tinder covid effect

        3. They’re just proving your point, brother, and they are such arrogant, ignorant, hateful, intolerant, Constitutionally retarded, deceitful, racist, fascist, pussilanimously violent asswipes that they wouldn’t recognize their own hypocrisy if it walked up and cracked them on the jaw lol.

          1. My reply to Thetruthexposer ^^^

    2. “If you are White, and you object to your own Genocide, you are called a RACIST!”

      Maybe, but if you are white and a racist asshole, you are called a racist, racist asshole.
      Go crawl in a septic tank with Misek.

      1. Isn’t it racist to capitalize “Black” but not “White”? To accept diversity not being promoted in non-White majority countries but promoting it here? Isn’t it racist to constantly blame White people for everything?

        1. You are not welcome here.

          1. Actually, you are not welcome here. It’s called free speech. You don’t have to like it, but if you have principle, you’ll defend his right to say it.
            Ironically, this article is about authoritarians and authoritarianism. You seem to be one.

            1. So you have all the free speech in the world.

              Disgusting as it may be.

              (Drops mike)

              1. “Drops mike”? Hardly fool lol.

              2. That would be the principle, which is what you seemingly fail to comprehend. And you didn’t drop a damned thing with that weak-ass shit.

                1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new…CMs after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

                  Here’s what I do…>> Click here

            2. And I have a right to say that he is unwelcome. Reason has a right to ban me. See how that works?

    3. Hey Sqrlsy! We found a new friend for you.

    4. I see another stormfag has found Reason.com

      1. Reads like a leftist’s poor attempt to smear libertarians and conservatives by posed example

        1. Do that and sarc is out of a job.

    5. Yo stop saying the quiet part out loud, it makes all the people here who tacitly agree with you look terrible.

      1. Oh, are you guys in on his shtick? That would make a lot of sense.

        1. Yes all the progressives like you you secret racist.

          1. Meant for Tony.

            1. Tony Larkenson…
              Makes sense.

          2. Not even secretly, openly racist and sexist.

    6. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new… after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

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    8. Looks like your comment caused a pretty good foaming-at-the-mouth reaction from the usual suspects. Kind of telling.

    9. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me Abq happy so I decided to take a chance on something new…after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

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    10. I quit working at shop rite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me joa happy so I decided to take a chance on something new… after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

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    11. Whether you realize it or not, the United States, as a whole, always has been multicultural, multi-denominational, multi-colored, multi-ethnic, and multi-racial. You might want to bone up on your history a little bit.

    12. Google paid for all online work from home from $ 16,000 to $ 32,000 a month. The younger brother was out of Abe work for three months and a month ago her check was $ 32475, working at home for 4 hours a day, and earning could be even bigger….So I started……Visit Here

  2. Sweden did a lot right. And it wasn’t luck. They had a plan and it worked more or less as expected while the rest of the world went insane.

    1. The lockdowns did nothing to stop the pandemic

      https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/stats-hold-a-surprise-lockdowns-may-have-had-little-effect-on-covid-19-spread/

      The numbers are there and there is no denying them. They should have never been instituted in the first place but to continue them now in light of the evidence is criminal.

      1. Diamond Princess cruise ship:
        3711 total on board
        712 infected
        14 deaths while infected

        That is with recirculated air, close quarter living, and notorious virus and bacteria traps in cooking areas.

        Everyone who pimped Propaganda about Kungflu hysteria should be publicly ridiculed and never let to forget it.

          1. Defenestration always seemed to send the right message but none of our local government buildings are tall enough.

            1. Only really have the opportunity in San Fran

              1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new…NMv after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

                Here’s what I do…>> Click here

            2. I vote for my ancestors preferred method of execution, the Blood Eagle.

              1. Well, that escalated quickly.

      2. Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of different analyses of available data that have reached that conclusion. Disgusting that no one is apologizing or promising that this will never happen again.

        1. Apologize?
          Promise that it’ll never happen again?

          I agree that it’s disgusting, but these people are far away from admitting to wrongdoing.
          They are totalitarians, and 2020 they are making their final play.
          Trump loses, the American experiment ends.

          1. Our governor is still in the “You’re not doing good enough” shaming process.

            Fuck that guy. He deserves a public woodchippering.

            1. Why would they change course when they face no consequences?
              And I don’t think losing an election is consequence enough. Not when they still live comfortably, above the plebs, and have committed crimes against humanity.
              Only mortal consequences can send a powerful enough message that they might think twice next time.

              1. I’m sure once all of the electorate is inundated with this news they will hold the politicians accountable…
                All those people who get their news from legacy media, tv, radio, etc will surely now understand the numbers and get angry, right?
                cbs, abc, nbc… cnn.. they all report these things right?….
                Oh yeah, you cant even tweet about the implications of these numbers can you? you get silenced.
                hmmm maybe for the average news consumer {not news searcher} you will get what you are bloody well served by those in charge – and that with a healthy dessert of Orange Man Bad!

            2. F*** Governor Gruesome.

          2. No, I don’t expect it to happen. I know how disgusting politicians are.

  3. It doesn’t look authoritarian, it is authoritarian. The states have used the public health powers as a way around the entire Bill of Rights and any reasonable limit to their powers.

    Understand that these measures were never narrowly tailored to their stated ends in any way. Worst of all, they were never truthfully tied to any duration much less any objective conditions. What started out as two weeks to keep the hospitals from being overwhelmed turned into months with no end in sight with the justifications changing from bending the curve to reducing hospitalizations to now ending all cases period, which will never happen. And even if it did, they would just switch to the ordinary flu or some other justification.

    This whole thing is terrifying. In the span of a few months we literally lost our free society. And no one seems to be concerned about it because Orange Man Bad or something. Worse than all that, the entire world has done the same thing. There is nowhere to escape. International travel has been shut down and other country which are nominally considered free have become even more authoritarian than the US. As bad as it is here, it is worse in Canada, Australia, the UK and continental Europe. The new normal is a world wide totalitarian nightmare.

    1. Covid lockdowns, “we need the same for climate change”, red flag laws: it isn’t authoritarian if we have a Credentialed Expert sign off.

      Also, lets chase out anyone not a communist out of universities so only we get credentials.

      1. the silver lining of the COVID scare is that most people forgot all about the climate change panic. A real crisis pushed a fake crisis to the back.

        1. Faith in climate change models took a hit after the pandemic models faced reality, but that won’t be enough to dissuade the sheep. There are fires in California! Don’t you see them on TV??? If we stop temperature change in its tracks, keeping temps with the range deemed acceptable by Science as they are today, we’ll still have those fires. But that won’t stop them from being used as a marketing tool for taking expensive actions that will do nothing to prevent them. Baaaaa

        2. I’m not sure it’s any kind of improvement. They never really figured out how to go full authoritarian with the climate stuff (though some were certainly trying with GND, etc.)

        3. You people are so fucking stupid it’s painful.

          1. Why do you continue to get your jimmies off by coming here then?

            1. So he can say things like “You people are so fucking stupid it’s painful” without fear of any repercussion beyond a texted response.

              1. Hmmm… There must be a way to trace these posts back to their source…

      2. “Manmade climate change” is a joke — a control mechanism, an economic bubble. The village witch doctor says what? That we need to do what he says in order for us to survive in the face of the Angry God du jour? Mmmyeahno.

      3. This is the crude lever they were desperately looking for to implement their climate change agenda but couldn’t manage to find or manufacture. Now they know – hook the narrative into a clear and present pathogen and take over the levers of public policy. They now have a proven way to gain the generalized power they want and can now try to tack any ‘extra’ measures on. Not unlike how the dems in congress tried to add extra lefty policy pork to the covid stimulus pkg.

        1. leverage the power of all those suburban housewives that are screaming “wont someone think of the children”

    2. In California, Gov Newsom has just declared that counties who do well on their numbers *still* are not allowed to re-open unless they have “equity”. In other words, counties need to spend money identifying their poor neighborhoods. In Orange County, as well as imperial, there is a disproportionate number of hispanics being infected- largely because there was a lot of cross-border traffic with Mexico (there are many people who have family on either side of the border).

      According to Newsom, even though the counties have reduced their covid counts, this “inequity” in infections means the counties can’t open. It is naked progressive politics, disguised as health intervention.

      1. Open, blatant racism, proudly proclaimed.
        California deserves what it gets; you vote for fascists, you get fascists.

      2. The change in rhetoric from “equality” to “equity” is not happenstance.
        Pay attention, because it’s a categorically different demand.

        1. I think Jordan Peterson was right. When the left starts talking about “equity” they have crossed a line that should not be crossed. Enforced equality of outcome leads down a very dark path.

      3. Just get rid of the progressives. Problem solved. We should start forced, permanent expatriation of the progs until they aren’t a problem anymore.

      4. Just when I thought Newsom couldn’t get any more ridiculous, this happens. Absolute insanity. I don’t know how we make our way out of this.

    3. Worse than all that, the entire world has done the same thing. There is nowhere to escape. International travel has been shut down and other country which are nominally considered free have become even more authoritarian than the US. As bad as it is here, it is worse in Canada, Australia, the UK and continental Europe. The new normal is a world wide totalitarian nightmare.

      Not to you specifically but: Welcome to Globalism.

      1. Can’t get that Mars thing happening fast enough.

    4. I’ve already heard one person in my orbit of friends saying that since these measures have “worked” (my scare quotes) for COVID, we should continue to do the same during the flu season in perpetuity since sometimes people die from the flu. After reading this, I now plan on going to the gun shop for the first time in my life this week. This cannot be allowed to continue any longer. I cannot and will not live in the world of the “new normal.”

      1. It is a cruel and horrible thing.

      2. Did you tell that person to stop acting like a weak-spined, gullible stooge?

      3. Ugggghhh. Masks forever . . .

        What will you do with your new gun?

        1. Yeah, like you’ll shoot somebody who tells you to wear a mask?

          1. Hmm, psychological projection indicates underlying mental health issues.

    5. When this is over, one would hope some state legislatures would review their governors’ emergency powers, and act to scale them back.

      That’s what one would hope. What one would expect, of course, is more shit-flinging.

    6. “And no one seems to be concerned about it because Orange Man Bad or something.”

      Far too many Americans are perfectly comfortable with totalitarian governance. These people paradoxically refer to themselves as “liberals,” and if you do not listen to them …..

      1. I haven’t called them “liberals” for decades. They are leftists. There is absolutely nothing “liberal” about them. Libertine, perhaps, but not liberal.

      2. Not just comfortable, but eager.

    7. It is terrifying. Without a doubt. Well said.

      Can we move to Sweden?

  4. Starting with the bait-and-switch of “flattening the curve” it should be obvious even to the most simple-minded dolt that there’s no “getting back to normal” on the agenda. The “new normal” is a fait accompli, or, as a wise man once said, “If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – forever.”

    1. You are right. And the worst part of it is that a large number of people have been convinced to want it that way. I am likely more of an optimist than most and certainly more than I should be. I never thought I would see the US stop being a free society. Or even if it did for the entire world to stop being so and to do so in a matter of weeks.

      It is just horrible. And I don’t see how change it. Every time I see some retard wearing a mask I want to strangle them. Or at least yell at them “don’t you understand what is happening”!

      1. I wear a mask when I go shopping because I don’t want to get thrown in jail. I haven’t witnessed anyone get arrested, but I have seen cops with masks (and an obvious grin under the mask) patrolling stores looking for scofflaws.

        1. The only way this stops is through mass civil disobedience. It everyone just decided that they were not going to follow these rules, there is nothing the government could do about it. That is hard I know because who wants to be the first one to do it. You have to get a critical mass of people who will just no longer obey.

          1. I’m not even sure if that’s true. I think that governments have gotten this taste of absolute power and they’ll do anything to keep it.

          2. “It everyone just decided that they were not going to follow these rules, there is nothing the government could do about it.”

            That is absolutely not true. Government has the power to go to whatever extremes are necessary against as many of us as is necessary. They can destroy your life with a few keystrokes.

            1. actually, it is true. but the people who try it first get stepped on first

            2. If everyone did it, it would work. And that’s the only hope, really.

            3. That notion of coercion is completely obsolete and silly. The nanosecond humans figured out that we could make dogs salivate by ringing bells – well the working definition of coercion changed.

              And bluntly most of that manipulation now is not ‘government’. It is all part of the normality of mass society. And when government does it, it is usually done by contracting the private sector to get it done.

          3. I think we had an example of this at the White House announcement for ACB. No one wore masks and they hugged and hand clasps. Well to be fair we have only about a dozen cases tied to that event.

            1. Oh no, the sniffles.

            2. No one wore masks and they hugged and hand clasps.

              So people acting like how normal, healthy, and happy people are supposed to act. This administration really is like Nazi Germany all over again. (pun intended)

            3. You are a pathetic serf, Mod4. Go hide in isolation while the rest of us try to live a real life.

              1. He listens to “experts.” The only thing some persons like more than being told what to do, is seeing others being told what to do. It’s a mindset. And it does not often change.

          4. The problem is that people don’t want to do this. Kerri Walsh (beach volleyball Olympian) posted something intelligent on social media about how she opted not to wear a mask into a grocery store in order to silently protest all the insanity, and has been incessantly lambasted ever since. It’s highly disturbing how many people just want to continue on like this forever, it seems.

        2. I wear it improperly as protest.

          1. The sad part is that people think wearing the mask protects them from catching the virus, so they stop keeping their distance from other people. Masks are worse than useless as a prevention device in that regard, but still provide some benefit in keeping your virus out of the air when you are the one who is contagious.

            1. .. but still provide some benefit in keeping your virus out of the air…
              False.
              N95 (Medical) masks have a one way exhalation valve. They are designed to protect the wearer.

              1. No medical masks allowed for the unwashed masses. We all get the play-at-home version instead. Coughing into your mask helps keep some of your virus out of the air.

                “Such face coverings, according to the CDC guidance, would not be intended to protect the wearer, but rather prevent the wearer from unknowingly spreading the disease when in public.”

                https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/02/coronavirus-cloth-masks-recommendation/

                1. Total fabrication. And you fell for it.

            2. “The sad part is that people think wearing the mask protects them from catching the virus, so they stop keeping their distance from other people.”

              And you’ve just conceded defeat to totalitarianism.
              Once you admit that some extraordinary measures *should* be taken, or are justified, you’ve lost the ground necessary to defend against tyranny.
              Now you’re just trying to negotiate terms of surrender, but you’ve already lost.

      2. I wear a mask when a place requires it for entry. Otherwise I don’t bother with it. The problem for me with the disobedience angle is that it isn’t just government authorities and Karens who believe the masks are necessary. It’s plenty of normal people too. Pissing off the authorities/Karens? Yes. Making normal people feel unsafe? No. And anyway, if a store says “mask up for entry,” I think that’s within their rights. If I don’t like it, I don’t go in. And some places have gone so over the top with their safety theater that I won’t go in. I’ll wait till they come to their senses, and in a couple of the most extreme cases I might not even go back then.

        The problem with the coronavirus response, and the lockdowns exemplify it, is that from the beginning people should have been presented with the available facts and then allowed to make their own decisions about what level of risk they could accept. If you can’t accept the risk of people not wearing masks, then don’t go out. If you can, do. But a lot of people can’t accept that approach or even understand it. The idea of letting people think and take responsibility for themselves (and only themselves, not going around telling other people what their responsibility and personal risk assessment should be) is alien to most people. The Karens are willing to accept any level of tyranny if they can stigmatize and inform on rulebreakers, and they also think their risk is everyone else’s concern to manage. The normals trust authority and believe what they’re told is necessary. I mainly just want to avoid hassles.

        1. If I see a business that actually requires a “cloth face covering”, instead of just putting up the sign to keep the fines away, I just go elsewhere. There are lots of places where you are not bothered at all if you don’t wear a mask.
          Besides, the CDC, and all the executive orders in my area have an exception clause for medical conditions.

          1. If you tried to walk into a store in the Peoples Republic of NJ without a mask, people (shoppers and store workers alike) would treat you as though you pulled a gun on them. I don’t understand why those on the left are so irrationally scared of this virus.

            1. One of the core values of the modern left is to be afraid in general. As documented by Haidt, they fixate on harm prevention. And to satisfy that urge, they have to constantly find (or invent) potentially harmful things.

              Think about them like your semi-senile worrying grandmother. With her own army.

            2. Where in NJ is that? I just tested that in 4 separate store visits last week and found it completely false. Maybe it’s because I’m in a “red” county, Sussex, while your experience is where the real Reds are.

        2. Fuck the normals if they can’t make the effort to understand what the nature of the threat is and how useless masks are.

        3. Last week I started going barefaced to ShopRite and Dollar General here in NJ. I was the only one not masked, but nobody said a peep to me about it. Had I been asked, I’d’ve said I had a condition that made mask wearing unhealthful to me. Everybody does, but me more so than most, with heart disease. But it’s not like they were avoiding seeing me, because the personnel greeted me with, “Have a nice day,” and words to that effect.

      3. You don’t change it. You wait for everyone to forget about it and stop the mishigos. Eventually people will come to their senses, and deny they ever though otherwise.

      4. Risk is the enemy now. As a society the imperative seems to be to stamp out risk no matter the cost! … risk and personal accountability.

    2. Yes, we succeeded at flattening the curve. We succeeded so well, doctors and nurses are getting laid off for lack of work. The hospital overload simply never happened outside of a handful of cases long ago months ago. We achieved the goal.

      But then the artibrary rules shifted, and now the goal is ZERO TRANSMISSION RATE. Seriously, that’s the goal. An impossible goal. We don’t even have zero for the Bubonic Plague (we still get around five or so cases every year in this country).

      I lay the blame on two groups of people. First the politicians imposing arbitrary rule of whim without court oversight. Some elected governors, most unelected local bureaucrats. With no court oversight to stop them, they do whatever the fuck they want. Closing down gyms, yet leave local government owned gyms open. Closing down barber shops while pontificating in their perfectly groomed hair. Ugh.

      But also Karens. I know it’s become a tired meme, but I wish there was a better name for them. Not only do they demand to see the manager, they’re constantly demanding new laws, new rules, phoning the cops everytime someone has a barbecue with more than three people invited. During Nazi Germany they were the “hausfrau” and Hitler’s version of the soccer moms that they had to keep happy domestically. But they’re not all women. Of course not. Men can be Karens too. Demanding rules and calling the cops whenever someone breaks them.

      We don’t mock them enough. We can’t get out of this mess as long the the Karens are listened to. We need to mock them more, mock them until they stop calling the cops, mock them until they stop writing letters to the city council, mock them until even the politicians mock them.

      1. We will also always have false positives on the tests, you cannot avoid that, so we will never have measured 0 transmission rate.

      2. the funny part is that if someone complains about having to wear a mask, they get called a Karen too

        1. Yes, and they are karens. Being a karen is a special kind of attitude, one that is orthogonal to mask wearing. But most karens demand all others wear masks but there are exceptions. They key thing is that others must obey they rules they want obeyed, by writing letters to the editors about how the other rules are horrible.

          1. Saying fuck you, I am not wearing a mask, you can if you want to is not being a Karen.

            1. To be a Karen you would have to go up and ridicule and attack verbally those wearing a mask to force them not to wear a mask. Simply saying I don’t want to wear a mask and you can if you want to is the opposite of being a Karen.

    3. It IS obvious to the most simple-minded dolt, and the “Roob Nation” caught on to the scam months ago. “Roob Nation” only runs their mouths and the “Irrational Mask and Lockdown Nation” is running the bureaucracies, institutions, and a large part of government — and the latter has personal animus toward the former for shedding light on the fiasco and applies oppressive policies that fly in the face of hard scientific data.

      But yes, I still wear my mask into the supermarkeT and mumble “NO BAGS” to the cashier at checkout.

      1. For a moment I thought you wrote ‘boob nation’. Imagine my disappointment when I read more closely.

    4. Then be the boot, not the face.

  5. “The Constitution cannot accept the concept of a ‘new normal’ where the basic liberties of the people can be subordinated to open-ended emergency-mitigation measures” – U.S. District Judge William S. Stickman IV

    This judge gets it. I only wish he were sitting on the bench in the people’s Republic of NJ. We lost our 1A rights of free speech and free exercise, our 2A right to bear arms. Our vote is being compromised by governor Phailing Phil Murphy.

    Where are the Federal Courts when you truly need them….like in NJ?

    1. The courts are the only thing that can save us now. It is better than nothing but it doesn’t give me a very good feeling either.

      1. Had brunch with a friend who lives part time in HI yesterday. Their mandatory quarantine and lock down is enforced in a manner that would impress N Korea; and the really sad part is how many people go “yeah, save us from the pandemic” and willingly get on the boxcar. I can just see this “for your own good” rationalization being applied for all sort of reasons, always with “good intentions” [with which the road to hell is paved]. I believe a lot more people have died as a result of governments with unlimited power than from any pandemic.

        1. Hawaii’s tourism trade has taken a huge shit and I saw they were reconsidering reopening because they fucked up.

          1. Why would anyone want to go there knowing that they will have to wear a mask wherever they go once they arrive?

            1. Do you have to wear a mask at a nude beach?

      2. Luckily the socialists don’t plan to pack the courts.

        1. HAHAHAHA

      3. Well that was a great ruling by Strickman in PA but Wolf applied for a stay, which was originally denied by Strickman but has been granted by the full 3rd Circuit Appellate court. So no we are not free in PA. And SCOTUS as it stands will not hear any cases regarding violation of rights. Another one just got denied.

        So although Strickman is absolutely right, I fully expect a bunch of “Obama judges” and squishy Republicans to rule in Gov Wolf’s failure and affirm yes he can indefinitely rule as a dictator and without any criteria for it to end.

    2. Has anyone brought a case in New Jersey yet? The Third District is 8-6 in favor of Republican-appointed judges now, so there’s a chance that a lawsuit would have gotten a fair hearing.

      1. The People’s Courts operating hours are severely restricted.

    3. May I suggest you contact U-Haul?
      The people’s republic has not yet restricted emigration.

      1. Ah, but they do have a People’s Exit Tax when you sell your home.

        1. Probably cheaper than what they’ll fleece from you over several years or decades, though.

          I completely understand that “just move” is a glib response to a complex problem, but if you have the means to do so, I heartily recommend finding a saner place to live.

          1. I will. However, I will pay off my house in NJ, and rent it out. I am looking at Knoxville, TN for final retirement location.

  6. Georgia doesnt have this nonsense and we are fine.

    1. Georgia is remarkable good in this regard. But it’s not because it’s a “red” state, as neighboring “red” states are among the worse. And it’s not because it’s empty of people like Montana, it has a very major urban center. And if you look at a county map, it’s definitely the state itself that is the difference.

      It could be the lack of arbitrary authoritarian responses to the pandemic, but I don’t have the data to guess at that. I would love to see a metric of “lockdown severity” correlated with per capita infection rate. My inner narrative says it knows the answer, but I still want to see the data.

      1. Atlanta is 9th largest metro area in the country. WTF do you mean “one minor urban center”? Have you ever been to Georgia?

        1. Unless Brandybuck found the elusive edit button and changed his post, he said “a very major urban center”.

          1. John reads what he wants to hear. Always

        2. Yes and I have family there. LC is full of crap. They do the same things we do here. You wear a mask at Publix, many schools are shut down, people mostly keep distance. The governor has declared state of emergency.

          It is the same as most of America.

          https://georgia.gov/covid-19-coronavirus-georgia/covid-19-state-services-georgia/covid-19-wear-cloth-face-mask-public

          1. “LC is full of crap.”

            And water is wet.

          2. I go to Publix and I dont wear a mask. Public doesnt have one way aisles. Businesses are open. Bars are open. People and neighbor interact without masks.

            I live here dipshit. You don’t Echospinner. Look at poor sarcasmic jump on the retard bandwagon with echospinner.

            I don’t live in Atlanta, so if your family live there, they might be hiding under their beds and doing stupid shit like wearing masks.

            1. Our winery is open. We have parties. People have huge weddings.

              Our store shelves are full.

              1. Oh yeah, Georgia schools are open and have been since August. Kids dont have to wear masks. Kids can do online courses if they want.

                Echospinner, you are believing the Lefty media and making up stuff you don’t know anything about because you live in a bubble.

                1. Keep going I want to hear more about your life in Georgia.

                  Well my young ones Gkids the schools are just starting to open up. Been doing pod schooling for the second grade kiddo. The younger one has some time at the temple pre school.

                  So you have to give the children school and even education when you can. You know this.

            2. All Georgia residents and visitors are strongly encouraged to wear face coverings as practicable while outside their home or place of residence, except when eating, drinking, or exercising outdoors. Local governments are allowed to require face coverings, with limitations.

              Don’t worry John, Echospinner cant read. He thinks this is some mandatory message like his tyrant governor.

              1. Reading is one of my best things followed by a great grilled cheese sandwich.

                Same thing happens around here. Some do and some do not. I have not seen the local PD nor anyone else arresting people for that.

        3. Dude, I know you’re a raging contrarian, but did NOT say “minor”.

          1. I misread it. You are right. My apologies.

  7. Let’s face it. Most people can be conditioned to accept and believe almost anything. And once they embrace an authoritarian system, they are not just incapable of resisting, but actually resentful of anyone who challenges that system.

    Most people are sheep at heart.

    1. The regional governors now have direct control over their territories.
      Fear will keep the local systems in line.
      Fear of this battle station.

    2. And, from my life’s observations, are are absolutely correct. “How dare you” disobey the government and put me at risk! The virtuous informing is already well under way.

    3. I see that here in Michigan. On Friday, the Michigan Supreme Court declared Governor Whitmer’s executive orders dating back to April to be unconstitutional. Since that time, local businesses and schools are doubling-down on private enforcement of mask mandates and other measures. Conditioning has been accomplished.

      A friend went to a park this weekend in the middle of nowhere and was confronted by a couple with two kids hiking in the woods, all wearing masks. Someone we know posted in a community forum about the availability of masks for children with asthma. Her child has to wear a mask eight hours a day at school and is suffering.

      Until “the science” declares these measures to be unnecessary in a way that resonates with certain politicians and the public, none of this is going away.

      1. I’ve seen the contrast locally. On Friday I went to an outdoor movie. Few masks and lots of close interaction. Yesterday I went shopping and saw a 30-something couple wearing masks, face shields and gloves giving everyone a wide berth.

        1. Their freedom to choose. Probably they have a health condition that requires such a choice. Or perhaps they have the plague.
          As long as they do not pretend everyone should behave the same, all is well.

        2. And those gloves do absolutely nothing but contaminate everything the touch. Fuck people are stupid. I pointed out to my mother, who isn’t one who likes gloves or masks, that the cashier wearing gloves just touched the raw meat of the guy in front of you, now she is handling your fresh fruit. No chance of cross contamination or food borne illness there!

      2. Science declared these measures unnecessary before Covid-19 is even a thing, and studies since Covid-19 confirm it – mask wearing has no appreciable preventative effect on airborne viruses.

        That you have scientists and medical professionals backing mask mandates is the ultimate in hypocrisy, since there’s no evidence demonstrating their effectiveness, and a ton of evidence demonstrating their uselessness.

        Like TSA at airports, it’s all security theatre, because the state had to *do something*.

    4. It’s rather pathetic how the pop-philosophy in a left-wing dystopian science-fiction movie like the Matrix has flipped on its head to describe those who identified with Neo, et al., to now be a bunch of Agent Smiths.

      1. ….and they seem to endlessly multiply like Agent Smith

  8. The number of people I’ve run across who think masks and social distancing and closed stores and stuff should be PERMANENT is shockingly high. And these people strongly correlate with those who worship government as their Lord and Savior. To roll back on any emergency measure is unthinkable.

    What’s happening is arbitrary rule making by mostly unelected officials, without any judicial oversight. The rule of law is dead. And the government worshipers are ecstatic. It’s mostly on the Left, and the in middle with all the Karens. But governors and local officials on the Right haven’t been shy about imposing similar restrictions across the board. It just doesn’t fit in to the MAGAian narrative so it gets downplayed.

    We are now receiving that Ancient Chinese Curse: We don’t have the government we need, we have the government we deserve.

    1. You support all of that shit. You just think it is some kind of switch can be turned off and on. You are a bigger moron than those people. They may love government but they a least understand how government works.

      1. Wow John! You’re amazing! You can tell what people support and what they think, even when it is the opposite of what they say! That’s so cool! You should take that act on the road and make some money!

        1. Brandybuck has said on numerous occasions he supports everyone wearing a mask and social distancing and all that horseshit. He just thinks it shouldn’t be government mandated. He is acually so stupid he doesn’t understand the moment he agrees that it is necessary at all he has given away the game.

          I really don’t have the time or the patience to try and explain things to you today. I just don’t. Come back another day when I am in a more patient mood. Just don’t respond to my posts. Assume you have no idea what I am talking about and move on. You will have a 99% of being correct and since I don’t have the patience to try and explain it through your thick skull, we will both be better off.

          1. Good job. You just mocked Brandybuck for holding a libertarian value. To say that some course of action, like mask wearing or social distancing, is useful in combating the coronavirus, but should not be mandatory, is explicitly libertarian. I don’t need to pretend that seatbelts are useless or harmful in order to object to seatbelts, and if I thought masks or social distancing were useless, then my objection to them would be rooted in pragmatism, not libertarianism. To a libertarian, whether or not they are effective is irrelevant to whether or not they should be mandated.

            1. John isn’t a libertarian. He’s a conservative. He has never had much use for libertarian ideas or principles. The only difference between him and a progressive is which parts of our lives he wants government to control.

              1. Wow John! Sarcasmic! You’re amazing! You can tell what people support and what they think,

              2. John isn’t even a conservative, if you define conservative by the standards of Burke, or Taft, or Buckley, or Reagan, or even Gingrich. His political philosophy starts and ends at what he imagines to be the opposite of what a Democrat might stand for.

                1. He’s a conservative in the talk radio sense of the word.

                  1. I don’t listen to talk radio dip shit.

                    1. Talk radio is, like you, reflexively anti-Democrat. Don’t matter what the idea is. It is judged solely by the source, not on merit (because by definition if a Democrat likes the idea then it must be shit). You should listen sometime. You’d probably burst your pants.

                    2. I give long explanations on here for why I think what I think. That you think that I am just anti Democrat when I give such long explanations shows that you are just a fucking asshole who can’t win an argument and just resorts to name calling when you can’t.

                      I am sorry but I hold your opinions in very low esteem. There are people on here who make interesting points that I respect even if I don’t always agree with them. You are not one of them. You clearly don’t understand what I am saying or where I am coming from.

                      Your loss not mine.

                    3. “you are just a fucking asshole who can’t win an argument and just resorts to name calling when you can’t.”

                      Says the guy who calls everyone who disagrees with him a stupid liar. You’ve got zero self-awareness.

                    4. I win arguments all the time. I call people names when I win them because their stupidity annoys me. When I lose them, I agree they had a good point and move on. It is the opposite of what you do.

                    5. “When I lose them, I agree they had a good point and move on.”

                      Pre election fever maybe. But now you’re an ass.

            2. Yeah Bill, everyone should just go along and conform that way the government doesn’t have to make them.

              That is all your position is. Fuck you. There is more to freedom than government coercion. A society full of conformist emotional assholes like you is just as unfree as anyone made so by a government.

          2. This election season has turned you into an insufferable asshole.

            And like BE said, there is a UUGE difference between supporting masks and such, and supporting mandates.

            Too bad you’re too obtuse to understand the difference.

            1. “This election season has turned you into an insufferable asshole.”

              So. Much. Projection.

              1. The guy who openly advocates for violence against his political enemies is calling me an asshole?

                That’s rich.

                1. You are an emotionally immature asshole, as more than myself have noted.

                  1. I’m not the man-child who has temper tantrums when my sacred cows are insulted. That’s all you, dood.

                    1. Temper tantrums are literally all you ever post

                    2. Says the guy who openly wants to kill people who make him mad.

                      Look at me! I’m Nardz! I can’t win an argument so I threaten to kill people! I’m so cool!

            2. I have always been an insufferable asshole to stupid people. If you are now noticing it, my advice to you is to get smarter.

              1. You feel that anyone who disagrees with you is a stupid liar. After all, that’s the only possible explanation, because you’re totally honest and so smaht. Nobody could have a different opinion without nefarious motivations, right? Isn’t that what the left does? They have perfect intentions so anyone who disagrees must have bad intentions, right? You’re so totally Red Tony right now.

                By “get smarter” you’re saying “agree with me.” Otherwise you’ll keep calling me names.

                Well boo the fuck hoo. Call me names. I don’t care. But my lurker friends agree that you’ve gone off the rails. We want the (mostly) rational John back.

                1. No. not anyone just you and a few others. You are special in that regard. Lost of people make intelligent points that I don’t agree with but are honest points. You are just not one of those people.

                  1. I pick apart illogical arguments and take them to their logical conclusion. You liked it when I did it to the left. But now you and the other conservatives are having a collective hissy fit because you’re on the receiving end. Boo hoo! Waaah! sarc is picking on me! He’s a dishonest liar! He’s stupid! Waaah!

                  2. Sarcasmic is one big walking illogical argument.

                    He has delusion in common with Lefties.

                    1. Be specific, Jimmy. You are a Georgia farmer, aren’t you? You’re Jimmy from now on.

          3. > Brandybuck has said on numerous occasions he supports everyone wearing a mask and social distancing and all that horseshit

            I have somewhat. The pandemic real, it’s not myth. Mask wearing and social distancing is important. But “all that horsehit” is a very broad statement. You mean all sorts of stuff that I do NOT support.

            That does NOT mean I think mask wearing should be mandated to the extent that it is. Emergency measures are necessary, but they need to have judicial oversight. A law mandating mask wearing in certain circumstances can be fine. Wearing masks in a grocery store is fine in my book. Because I’m not an anarchist. But laws requiring masks while riding a bicycle or walking the dog is bullshit.

            You’re like the Climate Change Deniers, who just because they don’t like the Democrat proposed solutions, deny that hte problem even exists. Easier to make it a political issue you can oppose. Easier to make infection disease a political issue you can oppose. Because your world is black and white, there are no shades of gray. If a Democrat said the sun came up this morning you would deny it instinctively. If Biden helped an old lady across the street you would retaliate by pushing an old lady into the street. You have no ideas of your own, all you can do is the opposite of what someone else does. How pathetic.

            1. “Mask wearing and social distancing is important.”

              You lose.
              Whether you lick boots because you like the taste, or because you’re forced to at gunpoint, you’re still a boot licker.

              1. Says the guy who would lick the boot after he shoved it up the asses of his political enemies.

                1. Case in point. Shitting for the sake of shitting, with no attempt to address the argument.
                  You’re miserable and uninterested in learning anything. You’ve got your dogma and have an emotional attachment.
                  Because that dogma is proving inadequate in the face of current conditions, you’re resentful.
                  Address the issue, or shut the fuck up.
                  Otherwise do what you should’ve done long ago, and end your misery.

                  1. Wow dude, I couldn’t have described you better.

                    1. But you couldn’t write it yourself, or come up with a legitimate argument, so you just went with “nuh-uh, you” instead.

                    2. Dude, your hilarious! You put down an autobiography, say it’s about me, and then get pissy because I didn’t write it? Holy fuck dude! This is comedy gold!

                    3. you’re – to fend of the semantic trolls

            2. Pretty much. Just like when Democrats came around to libertarian ideas on police reform, those ideas suddenly because terrible and any libertarian who still supported them was labeled a leftist.

            3. You agree that masks should be mandated. You just disagree about the details. That is nice. It doesn’t make you any different than the people you are criticizing.

              1. It makes him a realist instead of someone who reflexively opposes ideas based solely on the politics of the source.

                1. You’re projecting again.
                  Time after time, people make arguments that are far more substantive than “because Ds support it” and you completely ignore those arguments because you have an emotional need to accuse others of being just like you.
                  It is far more transparent than you think.

                  1. Both sides make arguments more substantive than that. They take into account what supports their argument and ignore what doesn’t.

                    And the only emotional reactions I see are from those who flip out when someone opposed their sacred politics.

                    I don’t really give a fuck.

                    So accuse me of projection all day long. It’s actually kind of funny.

                    1. It doesn’t look like you’re laughing.
                      It looks like you’re bitter and resentful, and shitting up the thread because you have nothing worthwhile to say.

                    2. Speak for yourself you emotional twit.

            4. Compare the output of the various CMIP-5 models to the satellite/radiosonde temp data, you will find lots of divergence.

      2. “You support all of that shit.”

        Triggered. Brandybuck – 2, John – 0

    2. The number of people I’ve run across who think masks and social distancing and closed stores and stuff should be PERMANENT is shockingly high. And these people strongly correlate with those who worship government as their Lord and Savior.

      Most of the “we should have kept things shut down until a vaccine was finished” hysterics I’ve seen on social media have tended to be women–usually older retirees from the local school system or city government who have all the time in the world to sit around and do nothing, white upper-middle class professionals, or suburban housewives who aren’t the primary source of income and whose husbands haven’t lost their jobs. The working-class, on the other hand, seems to be split more along the lines of the former who are demanding indefinite UBI, and those saying, “this sucks, but I have no other means of keeping my bills paid, and I’d rather just deal.”

      1. In other words, these restrictions are very much being driven by the white-skinned, white-collar professional classes, not the working class. Talk about systemic racism.

      2. This tracks with my personal experience. A black guy working at a grocery store (he was masked and I wasn’t because this was early in the pandemic) told me he was just overjoyed to have a job when so many people he knows did not. Many other working class people I’ve encountered seem to be focused on just getting through the day. They project resignation more than anything else and don’t seem to care much about what people do. But for nearly every white professional/managerial class person I know who has the option of working from home (with some significant exceptions), mask wearing and scolding people about it has become a religion.

        1. This.

          The panic is being driven by politicians which is them amped to 11 by the media, but the enforcement is largely being handled by people who have the option of sitting at home indefinitely.

          1. See: brandybuck, sarcasmic, etc

      3. The thing is, there are many people who want this to continue even after a COVID vaccine is developed because people die of other communicable diseases and “if is saves just one life” bullshit.

    3. Ancient Chinese secret, huh?

  9. so we need to suck it up and accept a world of mask-wearing, economic disruption, and social distancing.
    Not gonna happen.

  10. Well people were warned this would happen. They just don’t care.

    Ultimately when the government becomes tyrannical, it’s time to change the government. Normally this would mean elections but I haven no confidence that elections will be fair.

    The new normal may be insurrections from here on out. Nobody wants that but either live in the hole or climb out.

    1. I don’t believe that successful insurrection against a modern Surveillance State is possible. The bureaucrats can turn off your life without leaving their cubicles.

      1. It isn’t even the bureaucrats. It’s more along the lines of a ‘soft totalitarianism’ where woke capitalism uses our data against us to enforce social norms. That remains my biggest fear and, at least in my mind, why “coronavirus” happened.

        I found it bizarre that people were talking about lockdowns, physical distancing, contact tracing, and vaccines before anyone really knew what “the virus” actually was. Now, as the data reveals its actual risk and a cheeseburger-eating slob like Trump (I’m still voting for him) will most likely shake it off, none of this has changed and we have articles like this telling us to prepare to accept the “new normal.” It reinforces my belief that a larger agenda is at work.

        What depresses me daily is that those who see the absurdity in all of this are still very much in the minority.

        1. Voting for Trump should not be based on his assumed diet, but rather on his shown policies in the areas of the economy, middle east peace, taxation, and court nominations.
          The alternative is fascism.

          1. I agree entirely.

          2. The alternative is Communism.

            1. No, I think it’s closer to fascism, remember the new deal was borrowed from Fascist regimes and the left will allow the false idea of private ownership while controlling everything. That is Fascism not Communism.

              1. I think it’s closer to zombism. If the wrong party wins, then all the aliens holed up in Roswell and Area 51 are going to escape, vacuum up normal people’s brains, replace them with sawdust, and then laugh while dropping termites into everyone’s water supply.

  11. If there is one phrase in the American lexicon that needs to never be uttered by anyone again, it’s “new normal.”

  12. And yet, local Florida authorities vow to keep fining people who don’t wear masks in public even after the governor told them to stop.

    The governor and the citizens of the state of Florida, need to hold these officials personally and criminally responsible for their actions. Make these people afraid of the public again.

    1. It’s south Florida.
      Much different animal than the rest of the state.

      1. You’d think people who fled Communist Cuba would be more wary of nascent totalitarianism.

        1. There’s a lot of African-American, Puerto Rican, and northeastern transplants down there as well who tend to override the Cubans. Even the 2nd and 3rd-generation Cubans tend to be a lot less skeptical of communism simply because the educational system indoctrinates them into the idea that communist policies aren’t that bad, while fomenting racial resentment.

          1. ^

            The Cubans are fine.
            It’s the northeastern migrants who f it up.

    2. Miami is just handing out tickets with a fine as penalty. They are not actually “collecting” fines, so they say it is OK.
      The people will speak in November.

  13. Reminder that this is only the “New Normal” in Democrat-run areas.

    1. Wait until Joe Biden and Kamala Harris take over. You ain’t seen nothing yet.

    2. You’re forgetting Ohio.

      1. I miss those briefings with Amy Acton. She had that ‘disheveled nerdy resident with 2 hours sleep and now it’s time for rounds’ thing going. Good doctor. I think she left the government for another job.

    3. I’m thinking that a very large number of people who voted Bevin out of KY because he was a meanie to the teachers are pretty pissed at themselves for voting in Beshear, as they should be.

  14. Big corps love lockdowns – Bezos has gotten even richer with people doing everything online and the social media companies getting more clicks and ad hits with everyone home, bored.

    Big corps love them some BLM, if HR initiatives and ad campaigns are to be believed.

    This is the “new normal” because big government loves big business and vice versa. The variant of socialism the “democratic socialists” really want is fascism, corporatism, a partnership between big business and big government to keep the cattle in line.

    1. It is, and always has been, the goal of neo feudalism

    2. Jeff Bezos loves corporate anit-racism initiatives. After a Maoist struggle session, is that worker more or less willing to stand up for his rights as an employee?

      I say less willing.

  15. The sign is correct, it is a high risk area — people’s health is at much higher risk from eating at McDonald’s than from walking around without a mask.

  16. All you mask suckers – this is on you.
    Once you concede the justification that something must be done, you’ve already lost the argument against it being done by force.
    Remember this when climate change and anti-racism come up…

    1. So it’s incumbent upon libertarians to deny reality? Sorry, but no. If you oppose the government mandating something solely based on claims it doesn’t work, you’re actually undermining libertarianism.

      1. So, don’t use science and logic?

        1. A claim is neither science nor logic. It is statement without evidence.

      2. No, you stupid shit, it’s not about whether masks work.
        It’s about creating a panic based on false threats used to justify totalitarianism.
        The mask is a sign of submission, and sends the message that everyone around you is a threat from whom you’re protected by the bureaucrats and businesses mandating mask wearing.
        It’s a complete subversion of social sense and community.
        Once you admit extraordinary measures *should* be taken, or are ok, you lose your ability to argue against the degree they’re taken to.
        You can bullshit about the purity of libertarianism on your way to the boxcar all you want, but you’re just going to annoy your fellow prisoners.

        1. I love all these dumbasses who insist that masks are about “submission,” when they’ve got Social Security numbers, driver’s licenses, and tracking devices in their pockets that they pay a hefty cell phone bill each month to keep active. You’ll pay your taxes to help blow up innocent brown people on the other side of the world, but wearing a mask is “submission”?

          If you think the virus is a “false threat,” I think you’re an idiot, but I still respect your right not to wear a mask (unless you’re on private property where whoever owns or controls it requires one). Letting people make choices you disagree with and not bringing government down on their heads is what libertarianism is about. Doing something stupid just because it’s mandated is not particularly libertarian. But if you’re determined, I understand it’s illegal to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge. Have at it.

          1. My social security number isn’t tatooed on my face dumb ass. If it turned out that it might help stop the spread of the virus if you ran around with your dick in your hand, would you do that too?

            Is there anything you won’t do provided a guy in a lab coat tells you to do it?

            There really isn’t enough contempt to hold people like you in. You are just as big of a totalitarian as any of them. You just want everyone to go along so the government doesn’t have to get involved.

            Fuck you Bill.

            1. Bill is a boot licking little bitch whose argument boils down to “I completely buy the panic mongering, and because you have a social security number totalitarianism is no biggie”.
              He wants to pose as the “one true libertarian” so he mouths the dogmatic platitudes about private property and courtesy for others.
              But there is no intellect, no incite there.
              Merely pretentiousness and an eagerness to follow orders.

              1. *insight

                Wow, I’m embarrassed

          2. My phone has a hard location services killswitch, but do go on. And, have you been earmarking your taxes just for the things you support? Only killing bad white men? You don’t have much of a leg to stand on as far as calling people dumbass or idiot, but it’s a provocative argument, insults without rational points.

      3. The science says they are of little value. No one here is denying science except for dumb asses like you convinced masks will help.

        Beyond that, there is a minimum level of risk that must be created to call something a violation of the NAP. And the insignificant reduction of the tiny chance that I might have this virus and that I might give it to you is nowhere near that threshold. So, you have no right to demand I wear a mask because my not wearing one in no way creates enough risk to you to say that it violates the NAP.

        So fuck off.

        1. Is someone in this thread demanding that you wear a mask, or is your reading comprehension the issue? Someone–especially a libertarian–may recognize that doing, or not doing, something is a good idea, but still oppose making a law to require or forbid it. Masks may help to slow the spread and reduce the severity of COVID. That doesn’t mean the government should impose mask mandates. Shooting up heroin may kill you. That doesn’t mean the government should make it illegal. See how it works?

          1. Someone–especially a libertarian–may recognize that doing, or not doing, something is a good idea,

            If not wearing one doesn’t violate the NAP, how is wearing one a good idea? It is not. It is not making anyone safer. And there are adverse effects of wearing them. It is not a good idea. To say it is, is to give away the game to the people demanding it be manditory. Why would it be a good idea? Because it saves other people from you harming them. If you not wearing one harms people, then why shouldn’t the government be able to mandate it?

            I don’t have poor reading comprehension. You have poor logic comprehension and don’t understand the implications of your own argument.

            Masks may help to slow the spread and reduce the severity of COVID.

            I don’t change my lifestyle and start running around in a mask and living in a God damned impersonal dystopia over a maybe.

            So again, fuck you. Really fuck you and your ignorant risk adverse Karen self and fuck it with a chainsaw.

            1. Well when the argument reduces to “fuck you” i think it is done.

              1. I thought the argument was always deemed over when Poland gets invaded.

          2. Is someone in this thread demanding that you wear a mask

            You literally argued in your first post in this thread that opposing mask mandates was the antithesis of libertarianism, so yeah, you are demanding that people wear a mask or face the barrel of a government gun, you bootlicking authoritarian Marxist pile of subhuman shit. The only bright side in all of this is that you’ll be among the first up against the wall having your non-functional brains blown out when you get the result you’re asking for. I’ll be there skullfucking the bullet wound, and the load I shoot in the hole will still have a higher IQ than you did.

          3. Now do seatbelts and health insurance! You’re on a roll. Though, I agree, ‘may’ is no reason for a requirement.

        2. John I am not demanding anything of you.

          If you do not display at least the courtesy of social distancing when you show up. I am hiring someone else.

          I do think most people can figure this out to their own level of risk aversion and comfort. Nobody is getting arrested around here for not wearing a mask. We go to the store. My rule is if the workers are doing it I will do the same.

          1. You can follow whatever idiotic rule you want. The fact that you don’t want the government to enforce your idiotic rule on everyone else doesn’t make you less of an idiot. It just makes you a less dangerous one.

            1. Echo would be the Jew telling his fellows to just sell their stores, move to Palestine, and volunteer at the camps because it would be “polite”.

              1. If only they could have moved to Palestine. The British kept them out. My father in law smuggled in by Haganah when it was over.

                There was nothing polite about it.

                There is no point in arguing with an antisemite.

                1. That’s piss poor reading comprehension, echo.

                  1. Piss poor Jew baiting.

                    Please explain to me the relevance of the Holocaust in a discussion about the Covid epidemic.

                    1. You constantly making excuses for why the totalitarian left is justified and bitching about any pushback against them.

                    2. Is that the best answer you can come up with.

                      Let me rephrase the question. So you understand it this time.

                      Why is the Holocaust relevant in a discussion about the Covid epidemic?

                    3. Because it’s the same type of fucking thing at an earlier stage.

                      http://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods/status/1313625009080811520?s=19

                      You are absolutely worthless.

                    4. What’s your final solution to the covid19 problem, echo?

            2. Echospinner has just gone full Tony lately. He calls people who question his selling out other Jews an Anti-semite.

              He lies about people being arrested for not wearing masks in authoritarian states like where he lives. Even unreason has done an article or two on those arrests. Even that ticket story in Miami is about an arrest because try to run away from a cop trying to ticket you and see what happens.

              Then Echospinner cites Georgia governor RECOMMENDATIONS that people wears masks. Its not a mandate at all and Georgia does not have that and never did. In fact, because of Democrats wearing KKK hoods, its illegal in Georgia to wear a mask.

              1. Does that make you uncomfortable?

    2. The science deniers need to show us an inflection point in the data showing us how the masks have reduced infections/deaths/hospitalizations.

  17. Based on a study by economists, some of your conclusions are just wishful thinking about the overwhelming impact of the lockdowns on the economy. From National Bureau of Economic Research:

    “The broad based nature of the collapse in vacancy postings and spikes in claims suggest the current damage is not solely caused by stay-at-home orders; it is too large and pervasive. There are similar effects on directly restricted and only indirectly affected sectors. Just as employers across the nation reduced hiring and began to lay off workers at about the same time – regardless of the specific stay-at-home orders in their state – lifting the stay-at-home orders does not necessarily or automatically change the outlook for demand of products and services. Customers are likely to remain cautious, companies my be reluctant to act too quickly, and interruptions in global or national supply chains are likely to continue while the risks of viral outbreaks remain. Consistent with the notion that the virus itself is the culprit of the disruption, rather than state restrictions, we do see modest evidence that early COVID spread predicts the magnitude of the labor market collapse in the state. We therefore conclude that the damage to the economy is unlikely to be undone simply by lifting stay at home orders.”

    In other words, Tucille, it mostly was your “free market” in operation…people on their own electing to stay at home even before lockdowns, avoiding restaurants and crowds. But you have your test case in operation now in Florida. A few localities are bucking the foolish governor there, but that’s something a libertarian agrees with…localities making their own rules because they know their people better than the state. Let’s see how that all works out for you.

    https://www.nber.org/papers/w27061.pdf

    1. By the way, you keep referring to Sweden, as if it’s thoroughly open. It’s not. Maybe more than the rest of Europe, but they have restrictions as well. By the way, their cases are now rising as well. From a local outlet in Sweden:

      “The government lifted a nationwide ban on visits to elderly care homes on October 1st (but individual care homes may still have restrictions or guidelines in place for visitors), but other rules and recommendations, such as social distancing rules for restaurants or guidelines advising people to work from home if they can, remain in place.

      But Sweden also tightened its restrictions on people who live in the same household as someone infected with the coronavirus last week, which means a doctor can now order household members to stay at home, and they would get compensated for salary loss (children are exempted from the new rules). A government decision on whether or not to raise the limit of the number of people who are allowed to attend public events is expected to come next week.”

      Make sure you note, since you’re all enamored of Sweden, there already exist limits on crowd size, and government compensation for salary loss. Oh boy.

      https://www.thelocal.se/20201005/swedens-coronavirus-measures-could-remain-in-place-for-at-least-another-year

      1. By the way, their cases are now rising as well

        Yet the deaths have not increased, meaning that the fatality rate is dropping. It’s too bad the people paying you your 50 cents a day can’t formulate a coherent position on this.

        1. Deaths are a lagging indicator. But nearly the whole world has been improving treatments and access to hospital care to reduce deaths. But here’s the point that I made stated again, you know, for the slow witted (hint: you and John).

          “Take Sweden, an alleged example of the great success or the terrible failure of herd immunity without lockdowns, depending on whom you ask. In reality, although Sweden joins many other countries in failing to protect elderly populations in congregate-living facilities, its measures that target super-spreading have been stricter than many other European countries. Although it did not have a complete lockdown, as Kucharski pointed out to me, Sweden imposed a 50-person limit on indoor gatherings in March, and did not remove the cap even as many other European countries eased such restrictions after beating back the first wave. (Many are once again restricting gathering sizes after seeing a resurgence.) Plus, the country has a small household size and fewer multigenerational households compared with most of Europe, which further limits transmission and cluster possibilities. It kept schools fully open without distancing or masks, but only for children under 16, who are unlikely to be super-spreaders of this disease. Both transmission and illness risks go up with age, and Sweden went all online for higher-risk high-school and university students—the opposite of what we did in the United States. It also encouraged social-distancing, and closed down indoor places that failed to observe the rules. From an overdispersion and super-spreading point of view, Sweden would not necessarily be classified as among the most lax countries, but nor is it the most strict. It simply doesn’t deserve this oversize place in our debates assessing different strategies.“

          They did their own version of restrictions, sometimes stricter and earlier than us.

          https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/09/k-overlooked-variable-driving-pandemic/616548/

        2. By the way, it’s about Tucille stopped with the “oversized” opinion that Sweden was so widely different.

        3. Also, their fatality rate is 578 per million people. US is 630. Just about the same. Canada? 252. Germany 114. South Korea 8.

          You brought up deaths, sorry. But hey, Brazil 690. So you got that working for you.

          1. “Also, their fatality rate is 578 per million people. US is 630. Just about the same. Canada? 252. Germany 114. South Korea 8.

            You brought up deaths, sorry. But hey, Brazil 690. So you got that working for you.”

            Yeah, sorry but these numbers don’t mean anything without context. You have to look at case fatality rate, and even then you don’t get the full picture without things like % of population with co-morbidities, % of population that is obese, % of population that smokes, air quality, etc. Data is only useful when qualified.

            Stats on their own mean very little, especially in this context. And unfortunately, we know for a fact that much of the data we have about COVID is bad, which is really unfortunate given we could actually protect citizens and figure out how to properly handle this as a world if the US was more concerned with intellectual honesty than political gain.

            Here, I did some work for you so you can stop spreading misinformation. For example, Canada has a much higher CFR than the US. So does Germany. But again, this is just a starting point, so if you really want to cite data, do some work to qualify it with more data. Cheers: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

          2. 578 per million people with their admitted mistakes, different means of tracking, and no lockdown or mask mandates. Are you sure you should be mocking anyone for being slow-witted?

      2. Yeah, Sweden isn’t a libertarian paradise. Who knew?

        But they did show that all of the extreme restrictions and lockdowns were pointless and unnecessary.
        Cases rising means nothing unless hospitalizations and deaths also rise (which will lag, but we should be able to see any effect soon).

    2. “…In other words, Tucille, it mostly was your “free market” in operation…people on their own electing to stay at home even before lockdowns, avoiding restaurants and crowds…”

      If that were true, then there would be no need of the mandates and the authoritarian assholes could get lost.
      Oh, and jackasss, I’ve yet to hear you provide any evidence that fighting climate change is going to make the nasty wildfires disappear.
      Can we assume you’re full of shit in that case also?

    3. People are no longer electing to stay at home you fucking half wit. Moreover, even if you were correct that renders the government use of force here even more unneeded.

      Meanwhile, there is zero evidence the lockdowns accomplished anything other than given sick fucks like you a source of orgasms over the resulting authoritarian pornography.

      Even in these places, though, the downward transitions probably started before the lockdowns could have altered the curves. The reason is that a one-day turnaround for COVID-19 test results probably wasn’t met in either state. On March 30, the Los Angeles Times reported the turnaround time to be eight days. That would make the delay from infection to confirmation not the 10 we assumed, but more like 17 days (6 for symptoms to appear, 3 for them to develop, and 8 for test processing). In early April, the Hartford Courant reported similar problems with delayed test results in Connecticut.

      What’s more, there’s no decisive drop on the dates when lockdowns should have changed the course of the curves. Instead, the curves gradually bend downward for reasons that predate the lockdowns, with no clear changes ten days later.

      Lockdown partisans might say that the curves would have been higher after the ten-day mark without the lockdown. While we can’t redo history to prove them wrong, the point is that the sudden and dramatic changes we should see if they were right aren’t there. If we showed people these curves without any markings, they would not be able to discern when or even if lockdowns went into effect.

      The vertical lines mark the date when the number of deaths attributed to the coronavirus reached five per million people in the population. This is probably the best way to mark similar extents of viral progress in each state, since we don’t know how many total cases there were. The curves usually start to bend somewhere around the same death toll (roughly five per million people), which suggests that the approach of herd immunity caused the bends. In other words, we see in this data not only a lack of evidence that lockdowns caused the curves to bend, but also evidence of the very early stages of herd immunity.

      In fact, a May 18 column in the New York Times argued that coronavirus cases in New York City probably peaked before the state lockdown began on March 22. Though that newspaper is not known for taking a critical stance on lockdowns, this point implies that the spread was slowing before the mayor and governor even ordered the lockdown.

      Something caused this overall decline. It couldn’t have been lockdowns, which weren’t maintained (or heeded) in full force through June. At the moment, we can only speculate. But if this virus is like others, its decline is likely attributable to some mix of changing seasons and the gradual onset of herd immunity. Another factor, of course, could be the widespread use of masks as the year progressed.

      The evidence suggests, then, that the sweeping, mandated lockdowns that followed voluntary responses exacted a great cost, with little effect on transmission. We can’t change the past, but we should avoid making the same mistake again.

      https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/stats-hold-a-surprise-lockdowns-may-have-had-little-effect-on-covid-19-spread/

      1. Ah, the biggest phony libertarian of them all checks in! Thought you were missing in action these days. Outside of the improvement, we never noticed the difference! Enjoy your day!

        Best,
        Jack

        1. Your tap out is accepted.

        2. “Ah, the biggest phony libertarian of them all checks in!”

          You? Because John has never claimed to be Libertarian.

          1. The conservatives here are intellectually honest. They don’t pretend to be libertarians. The leftist are just dishonest human debris.

        3. Shit up Joe. Yeah you are Joe from Lowell. Thanks for admitting I am right and you have no response except to whine. Your misery and anger bring me joy. Cry some more loser.

        4. “Best,
          Jack”

          Worst,
          Sevo

    4. suggest the current damage is not solely caused by stay-at-home orders; it is too large and pervasive

      WTF? “I didn’t use enough C4 to blow up the *whole* car!”

      I guess at least they said up front that they had an expectation and are working the data to fit it.

  18. The reality is we face “new normals” all the time and we as nature intended adapt. Think about the world before AIDS hit in the late 1980s and how many things are different. It easy to look at the changes to sexual habits, but other things changed. We are far more conscious of blood and the possible spread of infections. I think the AIDS epidemic spurred reforms for greater privacy of medical records. Think of how airports have changed since the 911 attacks. Before that airports were open and most people could go to the gates to welcome home family and friends. Now you do this in lobby but never at gate level. Ten years from now there will be a lot of things that we don’t notice that will be remnants of this pandemic.

    1. Yes. I was thinking the same about 9/11. Lots has changed since then.

      1. “…Lots has changed since then.”

        Yes, it has. We got the magical TSA, which has lead to more deaths than the terrorists from which it is supposedly saving us. Another win for you and M4e!

    2. I came of age during the AIDS scare and the big take home was to always use a condom, which was probably pretty good advice for a 16 year old anyway. I still fail to see how the post 9/11 security theatre at airports has made us any safer from terrorist attacks-if someone is really intent on it, they will find a way

    3. This is horseshit and an excuse. If we had actually based any actions on legitimate public health stuff, then those would have also created natural ‘victory conditions’. Conditions which would make it clear at some point that ‘we won’ and where those actions could then go away and we could return to the REAL normal.

      We are deliberately NOT doing that. We are merely creating vapors that justify whatever we have chosen to do. So that in fact those actions will become the new normal merely because those actions are the way in which we can be and are corrupted.

      Jeane Kirkpatrick wrote an article at the end of the Cold War called a Normal Country in Normal Times. In which she hoped that even though the ‘Cold War’ had gone on for two generations and that we had become habituated to it, that the US would welcome reversing much of that distortion in order to return to normal. Turns out she was wrong and Eisenhower was right. That permawar became the new normal and that those profiting from it are also quite able to manipulate minds so that we accept permawar as the new normal. Not only was she wrong – that article is damn near impossible to even find on the Internet. Digitization has become nearly identical to the older methods of erasing inconvenient stuff from history.

    4. oooooo airport security has changed their procedures and protocols and we have reforms in medical record privacy and are more conscious of tainted blood. Big deal. These examples of a “new normal” pail in comparison to the “new normal” concept being discussed here.

      1. The aftermath of the 911 attack was far greater than airport security. The US reorganized government and added HSA. Our country became involved in wars in two countries in the middle east. After WWII and that start of the atomic age our entire world could be made uninhabitable in a matter of minutes. So I don’t think this pandemic will change the world more than it has changed in the past. Change is constant.

        1. A common coronavirus with a fatality rate lower than season flu, sepsis, and medical mistakes is equivalent to nuclear armageddon, folks.

          Eat shit and die you slimy, mendacious cocksucker.

          1. Again remember your history. A number of aboriginal peoples were drive close to extinction by bacteria and viruses brought by explorers and settlers.

            1. Almost every one of the pathogens that were introduced had a far higher fatality rate than CV-19. Smallpox had a fatality rate anywhere from 30-70%, COVID is less than 0.5%. Not even a comparison fuck nut maybe you out to study fucking history.

            2. The coof hasn’t even come close to killing off the number of people who die from heart disease in this country every year, and all it’s done is speed a lot of those same fatass folks along a year or two faster than they might have kicked off anyway.

              If you want to make the case that all trade and travel from China should be shut off because of this, however, I’m all ears. Can’t risk having those Chinese cooties kill all of us off, you know.

        2. None of those changes are an improvement.

    5. How many things are different because of AIDS? Gay men use condoms now and . . .?

      1. Not just gay men but the sexual liberation of the 60s and 70s went out the door pretty quick. When I was a kid we bleed all the time, cuts, banged noses, scrapes, today a kid bleeds in school or the playground and they practically bring out a hazmat team for clean-up. Think about your trips to the dentist. The AIDS era spelled the end of the spit sink. Or giving blood. When started giving blood the only question they asked was are you feeling well, today your are asked about thirty questions on illnesses, sex habits, have you been jail or prison. I would say that a good many things changed with AIDS.

        1. I’m sorry but the spit sink hasn’t gone anywhere. Neither has the loose sexuality of the sexual revolution. If anything it’s moved into high gear with the advent of hookup apps.

          In my experience very little has changed that could be related to AIDS.

        2. You are approaching Tony stupid.

    6. Actually I was thinking about how the airplane hijackings of 50 years ago affected things. Post 9/11/01 just built on top of that.

      There was a thread here about the new normal of baby car seats and how those requirements have been ratcheted up to children, and bigger and bigger children, ever since they were introduced. Or the seat belts before that.

    7. If your comparison rests on the Patriot Act’s gross abuses, and the horrifically incompetent TSA then you have lost the argument.

  19. they managed to turn “hey put something over your face because we fucking said so” into “hey put something over your face to fight Trump” … evil.

  20. “Instead, the country seems to have pulled through a difficult period at least as well as other countries without disrupting life or indulging the power-grab fantasies of government officials.”

    Ronald Reagan: Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.

  21. “How does one man assert his power over another, Winston?“

    Winston thought. “By making him suffer”, he said.

    “Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing. Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery is torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but MORE merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress towards more pain.”
    ——–
    I used to stop the quote after “Your will and not his own”, but we’ve gone far enough down the path that “Progress in our world will be progress towards more pain” is also an important aspect of it.

  22. Less-intrusive responses could preserve our health while leaving our freedom intact.

    Still, according to Reason, the President Lockdown and VP Eat-the-Rich are far better for liberty than President Spraytan! Because reasons!

    1. But of course, the point of all this fascism is loss of personal freedom, not public health.

  23. One of the better signs at the open Ohio protests back in April stated “the new normal is just North Korea’s regular normal”.

  24. The U.S. has hardly been immune to public health-driven authoritarianism during the pandemic.

    STOP with this crap Tuccille. There is virtually NOTHING in the US that has been ‘public health driven’. Just because people from the media parrot the phrase and pretend that is an applicable adjective does not mean that it has a grain of fucking truth to it. There are a ton of different responses from different places that have in fact been ‘public health driven’ and they range from Sweden (no lockdown but more public health measures than you people here at Reason will ever admit to) – to South Korea (lockdown only in one city for a few weeks) to China (massively authoritarian lockdown) to Australia, New Zealand, Germany, Iceland, etc.

    But not the US. Everything in the US has been more along the lines of ‘let’s throw spaghetti against the wall and wait and see what happens. If it works it will be magic’. That is not ‘public health’ merely because it is politicians throwing the spaghetti and praying for magic outcomes. It is in fact evidence that you don’t know what the phrase means. And unfortunately that seems to be pervasive among DeRps and L’s and l’s and pretty much everyone in the US including the ‘public health’ authorities. If that is accompanied with actual authoritarian measures (which it generally has been), then it simply means the US is corrupt and authoritarian at core.

    1. “…Sweden (no lockdown but more public health measures than you people here at Reason will ever admit to)..”
      Your stupid ate your cites

      “…But not the US…”
      Only JFree knows what to do, and unfortunately, he’s not telling us, merely whining a lot.

      1. I have just cited countries with a massive range of options.

        Course the only option you accept is overt stupidity – to stick your head up your ass and pretend the virus is not even a cold.

        1. “…no lockdown but more public health measures than you people here at Reason will ever admit to..”
          Your stupid ate your cites.

  25. The decent TV series “Blacklist” (though it has gradually lost focus through the years) fizzled into irrelevancy in the final episode of the latest season. They “animated” and turned it into a cartoon. Because Covid19.

    New normal.

    1. I’m waiting for lo-paid masked models with dialog dubbed by lo-paid voice actors to take the place of hi-paid actors in movies and TV. Pretty faces are no longer necessary and there are lots of hunky and curvy models looking for gigs and voices can be easily substituted without worrying about syncing with non-visible lips. But what about steamy sex scenes?

    2. I’ve watched the entire series, including seasons 1-6 twice before watching 7, and I agree.

      That last episode was a massive fucking pile of shit.

  26. government responses to COVID-19 are pushing the world toward authoritarianism—but dressed up as if that’s a good thing.

    As authoritarianism often is.

  27. Whichever party wins in November will not be able to keep up a permanent lockdown or mask mandate in the country or any state without the use of force or corruption for those who want an exemption, and we all know that will lead to the collapse of the two party system which we should celebrate, I just hope we don’t have to wait through 30 years of dictatorship because I will be too damn old to enjoy it

    1. I don’t see why that means the end of the two party system. The Republicans want to end this nonsense for the most part. It is only the Democrats who all demand it last forever.

      1. By “end this nonsense” you mean let millions of people die, right?

        1. Millions of people are not going to die you idiot. The lockdown didn’t slow the pandemic. There is no evidence it did.

          But you believe otherwise because you are the dumbest person on earth and will believe anything. You really are the picture of the dumb white man.

          1. Once again you’re exactly wrong about everything. You have got to stop trusting Alex Jones.

            1. Fuck off, dude. This isn’t fringe conspiracy theory. Many very smart and thoughtful people have looked at the data and come to the same conclusions. Maybe they are wrong, but you just can’t dismiss it as crazy Alex-Jonsey type stuff. Go find the data and try to refute the arguments, or fuck off.

              1. He’ll dismiss it as conspiracy-theory bs for the same reason sarcasmic dismisses anti-mask arguments as purely partisan and echospinner dismisses them as antisemitic: because they’ve chosen a position and formed an emotional attachment to it, thus everything contradicting their chosen position must be cast as bad faith.

        2. “By “end this nonsense” you mean let millions of people die, right?”

          No, qwe mena “end this nonsense”, not some strawman from a lefty pile of shit.

        3. If the choice is end this and let people die or keep it going and *cause* people to die – I’ll go with the former.

        4. You, like Chipper, just see the illusion that government will solve your problem.

          You embrace that lie because it is comforting to you and so you blind yourself to avoid seeing the other problems caused when fixing yours.

          Then you come back with those government caused problems and demand that someone in government fix them.

          Ad nauseum.

          1. “You, like Chipper, just see the illusion that government will solve your problem…”

            His mommy cut his allowance; what else is he supposed to do? Support himself?

        5. Tony, you are a pathetic serf.

          1. Serfs were productive.

    2. Whichever party wins in November will not be able to keep up a permanent lockdown or mask mandate in the country or any state without the use of force or corruption for those who want an exemption

      Well, one party wants to continue the lockdown, the other one doesn’t.

      and we all know that will lead to the collapse of the two party system

      The two party system is the result of winner-take-all elections; it’s a good system, and as long as the US remains any kind of democracy, the two party system will stay. The two parties will likely continue to be called “Democrat” and “Republican” as well, though their ideologies may shift dramatically.

      1. They already have shifted dramatically.

        There is no resemblance between the party of JFK and current day Democrats, just as there is no resemblance between Reagan’s Republican Party (or even Bush II), and that of Trump.

  28. “We’re told that life is never getting back to normal, so we need to suck it up and accept a world of mask-wearing, economic disruption, and social distancing.”

    Why can’t we suck it up and accept a world of old and sick people dying… like we did for the entire history of the world before March?

    1. And still do now. Old and sick people are still dying. In fact more of them are dying now than would have thanks to this bullshit.

      1. Not quite. The CDC admits they are counting ‘assumed’ covid in the death counts AND counting those ‘with covid’ than ‘from covid’. So the numbers are skewed bigly. Only about 6% of those death numbers actually died from covid. Die of a heart attack but also have covid, they count your death as covid. Die of advanced cancer but positive for covid, they count it as covid. Why? Because federal $$ is tied to each covid case/death.

        1. Only about 6% of those death numbers actually died from covid.

          I think this is too simplistic of a take and not particularly helpful to making a credible case. There certainly were a lot of deaths recorded as covid caused that shouldn’t have been. But a lot were people who were not well and covid pushed them over the edge. I believe that it is standard practice to put it down as primary cause of death in such cases.
          The numbers deserve a lot of scrutiny, and there certainly are many that should not count, but the 6% is just the number of people who died without having anything else seriously wrong with them. You can still die of the flu even if you have heart disease and diabetes and whatever else.

          1. Even where it was the primary cause of death, it was often the primary cause of death of people who were dying and had months or even weeks left to live anyway.

            The contrast between that and H1N1 is striking. Virtually no one under the age of 18 has died from COVID in this country. Over 20,000 people under the age of 18 died in 2009 from H1N1

            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3128617/

            I think those 20,000 deaths are a much bigger tragedy in the scheme of things than even 200,000 deaths of people in their 70s and 80s who were close to death as it was. Every life matters but the death of a young person is a bigger tragedy by any objective measure.

            1. Yeah, I completely agree. Old, sick people dying isn’t a tragedy. That’s just what it is to be old and sick. Sorry.
              There has been an incredible amount of lies and deception in the push to propagandize for lockdowns and masks. We need to be careful not to do the same. Even with the data available to us, which does have some serious problems, it’s pretty easy to see that this was all a huge and insane overreaction.

          2. But a lot were people who were not well and covid pushed them over the edge. I believe that it is standard practice to put it down as primary cause of death in such cases.

            They don’t do that for the flu. Or MRSA. Or sepsis. Or pneumonia.

            1. OK. I’ll have to check on that.

              Either way, the 6% number comes from the fact that 94% die with at least one serious comorbidity. This is very important information for people to have, and it should be mentioned in every report on deaths. But it doesn’t exactly allow you to say that only 6% of reported deaths really are from ‘Rona. I don’t think repeating it helps our case. Pointing out that 94% were very unwell in other ways, on the other hand, does. And we’ve known that since Italy started publishing numbers.

        2. Long-debunked lie. Stop spreading lies.

          1. No, actually it’s not you retarded fucking subhuman faggot. Hence why you have no citation. Fuck yourself with a railroad tie and die you worthless fucking piece of subhuman dog shit.

            1. Zeb describes why this is not only a lie but a totally ridiculous obvious lie above. Can you people make it through even a single day without telling a massive lie?

              1. No, he made an assertion with no evidence just like you did. The 6% number cited is based on actual reported data. You have no cite because you have no data. You are a lying, stupid, vapid, subhuman, worthless piece of subhuman dog shit. Killing you would be no different than killing an insect. You are literally not human. You have no value. No worth. So shut the fuck and be happy that we let you live and supply you with the AIDS cocktail keeping your faggot ass alive, bitch.

                  1. You seem like a worthless bootlicking Marxist piece of shit faggot with no value as a human being who can, could, and should be killed without consequence. Like I said, be glad that we suffer you with the patience befitting a civilized society and pay for your AIDS cocktail, and shut your fuck hole.

          2. That is not a long debunked lie at all. Stop lying and pretending otherwise Tony. Being stupid is enough for you. Don’t be dishonest on top of it.

            1. John, you’re dumb. You choose to be dumb. You could choose to be a normal human being who reads normal news, but you don’t. You go and find the dumbest rightwing trash that confirms the things you need to believe, and you actually believe it. Stop it, you’re embarrassing me.

              https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/cdc-did-not-admit-only-6-of-recorded-deaths-from-covid-19/

              1. Tony all that says is that the CDC didn’t admit some crazy allegation. It in no way means that the number of COVID deaths are not overcounted and impossible to count accurately anyway.

                If you are going to lie, at least try and lie with a link that is relevant to what we are talking about.

              2. For the week referenced in the claim, the CDC explained that the chart “shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned.”

                Sometimes it helps to read past the headline, fuck hole.

                1. I’m done holding your titty for you, you ridiculous child. Go away.

                  1. Awwww, are you embarrassed that your own citation utterly blew up in your face because you were too fucking stupid to read, fuck hole? Fuck yourself, you worthless faggot cunt. I’ll be here shoving your bullshit right back up the hole it came from for as long as you live on the taxpayer dime until you lose your battle with AIDS, so get used to it.

                    1. Pretty sure that stinking pile of lefty shit is too stupid to be embarrassed.

            2. I am not sure if Tony is more dishonest or stupid. How would an average person judge this?

          3. What is your definition of ‘long debunked’ considering the pandemic is barely 3/4 of a year old?

  29. Welcome to the New Normal, brought to you by the DNC and Democratic politicians everywhere.

    1. Dude what the fuck? Half the Republican party is dying of COVID because they behaved in horrendously reckless ways. The DNC didn’t force them to do that.

      1. Literally not one elected member of the Republican party has died of Covid. Just like 99.8% of everyone else who has contracted Covid, they have had mild symptoms and recovered. And just as many Democrats have contracted the virus. And also haven’t died. Although their constituents have. In greater numbers than anywhere else in the entire world, on both an absolute and per-capita basis. Do you ever wonder what it might be like if you weren’t a lying subhuman faggot piece of shit?

        1. Meet Tony, the biggest overreacting pants-shitter of them all.

          1. And you don’t even see the psychotic episode happening right in front of you. Does rightwing media actually make your eyes not see things that don’t involve sucking Trump balls? Tulpa is having a goddamn meltdown right this moment, and I’m the pants shitter?

            1. Yes, you are. You want the entire lockdown, masks, and social distancing bullshit to continue until the WuFlu is completely eradicated, something that is never going to happen. Life entails tradeoffs, and many people are not willing to see their way of life come to an end over a disease that is not nearly as deadly as your beloved experts predicted it would be.

              1. I’m not the one who has to be convinced. I can work from home just fine. If you can figure out how to get the rest of the world to just ignore a highly contagious airborne disease so my job is more secure, be my guest.

                1. I can work from home just fine.

                  Yeah, being a pathetic welfare leech is like that.

                  If you can figure out how to get the rest of the world to just ignore a highly contagious airborne disease so my job is more secure, be my guest.

                  The flu is a highly contagious airborne disease. The common cold – a coronavirus! – is a highly contagious airborne disease. Tuberculosis is a highly contagious airborne disease. We don’t stop the world for any of those illnesses because it would be bugfuck nuts to kill millions of people due to poverty, starvation, and declining standards of living compared to the miniscule risk those diseases pose.

                2. See? You have a problem. Some guy in government say ‘I can fix it’. And you blindly follow.

                3. It’s not about work. I can also work from home. It’s about the end of any type of reasonable social life.

                4. Good for you but a lot of people can’t work from home. Did you see Regal Cinemas owner is going to close all their locations indefinitely in the US, Canada and UK because they are losing to much money. Yeah, they can’t work from home. The manufacturers can’t work from home, farmers and ranchers can’t work from home, the checklist can’t work from home etc. Once again you prove how selfish and self centered progressives are.

                  1. You’re just totally missing the point.

                    Do you actually think I have the power to reopen society by myself?

                    1. Tony, you are a pathetic serf. Bow down to the almighty authority.

                    2. No you missed the point you pathetic narcissist. Did I ever say you have the power? But despite not having any power you fully support the overreaction and authoritarianism that has dominated the last six months. And your justification is because you can work from home. I pointed out that that is typical progressive, only concerned about yourself.

                    3. And I think your reaction is because you secretly realize you are a bigoted narcissist but can’t admit it like most narcissist. Again typical progressive, assuming everyone is as bigoted and narcissistic as they are. Progressivism is nothing but projection.

            2. Do you want to live in a minority White America where you lose jobs because you’re White (affirmative action), have to apologize & feel guilt for things other people did hundreds of years ago? Keep voting for Democrats & you will, as they passed laws projected to give us a minority White America in a decade & are the only party to pass laws where race decides employment. Also they’re the ones constantly pushing race and dividing us. They treat Black people as helpless & weak in need of handouts, fits Democrats well as they were the ones supporting slavery.

              1. go away, no one is listening to you here

      2. dude nobody’s dying of covid that’s the whole point

          1. That’s people who have died with Covid. And includes people who have died with suspected but unconfirmed Covid. But even if we pretended that was an accurate number it still pales in comparison to heart disease, cancer, automotive accidents, and even gun deaths.

            1. Are you remotely interested in what actual medical authorities have to say on this matter, or are you going to stick with debunked twitter rumors?

              1. fake or real, your numbers scream Cold/Flu Season! much more than Global Pandemic! Panic! … it’s been 8 months now

                1. I don’t have numbers. There is science and then there is nonsense twitter rumors. You’ve decided to go with the latter because the president has an (R) after his name. Are we pretending something else is happening?

                  1. I don’t have numbers.

                    LMFAO. Thanks for admitting that just in case it wasn’t patently obvious to everyone who has read your rambling, incoherent bullshit over the last 6 months, fuck hole.

                    1. Tony has been doing this for decades.

                  2. >>I don’t have numbers.

                    210,000 is a number, Holmes.

              2. “Are you remotely interested in what actual medical authorities have to say on this matter[?]

                Okay, I’ll play. Let’s start simple. A very simple and concise assertion made by the medical community you claim to revere.

                “We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection.“

                https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372?fbclid=IwAR1bYpjxNXGVg08likstYr21FJMR8tJJmr_lTQ9h3TTmcpIr0d60SIjfz7g

                “We [the medical community] *know* that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection.“

                Your turn. Will you now urge your local politicians and fellow citizens of what the medical community states they emphatically know that masks are a sham? Or are you just gonna keep on keeping on with the fallacy that masks don’t accomplish very much, if anything.

                In case their very simple statement isn’t clear enough for you, the NEJM continues: “ Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal. In many cases, the desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.

                […]

                There may be additional benefits to broad masking policies that extend beyond their technical contribution to reducing pathogen transmission. Masks are visible reminders of an otherwise invisible yet widely prevalent pathogen and may remind people of the importance of social distancing and other infection-control measures.“

                In the case outside of hospitals, it’s a reminder that individuals are not autonomous: there is someone in charge, and it isn’t you.

                The NEJM continues:

                “It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles. Masks are not only tools, they are also talismans that may help increase health care workers’ perceived sense of safety, well-being, and trust in their hospitals. Although such reactions may not be strictly logical, we are all subject to fear and anxiety, especially during times of crisis. One might argue that fear and anxiety are better countered with data and education than with a marginally beneficial mask, particularly in light of the worldwide mask shortage, but it is difficult to get clinicians to hear this message in the heat of the current crisis. Expanded masking protocols’ greatest contribution may be to reduce the transmission of anxiety, over and above whatever role they may play in reducing transmission of Covid-19.“

                Masks, according to the very same medical community you claim to listen to states emphatically that masks aren’t worth the cloth their made out of in terms of stopping the spread of disease, but they’re fucking great religious tokens for those who believe in government.

                The New England Journal of medicine states outright that masks are little more than talismans. Fucking talismans. I sure hope you like your proverbial relic, because that’s all they are. Symbols to remind us that the government is jefe over individual lives, having nothing to do with making us safer, but with not upsetting the feels of others.

                So, again I ask: are you gonna start advocating for dropping mask mandates because the medical community “know[s]” they aren’t worth shit? Or does their science not count?

                1. No because I’m not the world’s saddest little titty baby who thinks wearing a mask during a pandemic is the biggest imposition since slavery. Grow a dick man, Jesus Christ.

                  1. Shit, Tony, I thought libertarians valued individual liberty.

                    1. Tony is not a libertarian, he is a left authoritarian that comes here to disrupt.

          2. We normally have around 3 million deaths a year.

            And that’s everyone who has died with covid, not necessarily from it.

            So, the relevant number her, Mr Science party, is the *excess deaths*. Not the 210k deaths.

            1. Even then we need to separate out the lockdown deaths from the covid deaths. Not all our excess deaths are covid.

  30. My governor has left it up to each county/city to decide how they were going to handle things. Our county executive is leaving it to individual businesses to decide how they will handle the response. Other than masks and hand sanitizer, my county is mostly back to normal. Businesses are mostly open, restaurants are packed, kids are back in schools. Democrat-run cities/counties have gone draconian in their lockdowns since March and they continue to lead in covid cases.

  31. Coming from the retarded Marxist cunt who unironically argued that mandatory contact tracing, mandatory COVID testing and mandatory vaccines were the only possible way to return to economic normalcy, feel free to shove this fig leaf up your ass you pathetic fucking piece of authoritarian bootlicking shit.

  32. Biden +8 in Arizona. Voters like presidents who aren’t insane sacks of disease.

    1. Dementia doesn’t count as a disease now?

      1. You should be angry at how terrible a politician Trump is to set debate expectations for Biden at “dementia.”

        Biden didn’t do very well, but as a direct result of Trump’s universally derided display of utter insanity, the polls have given Biden like 10 points. Don’t be mad at me, be mad at the ridiculous horse you chose to ride. I’m sorry it’s embarrassing. Not that sorry though. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to fall in love with a giant fascist pimple who’s probably going to die.

        1. Biden didn’t do very well

          LMFAO. That’s funny because you told me 2 days ago that he utterly destroyed Trump and exhibited a keen intellect, completely dispelling any hint of doubt at his mental capacity. Oh and ,uh, about those polls… The internal polling must be horrendous if your handlers are already walking back your talking points.

    2. Sure he is Tony. If you poll the right people, you could probably get him up by 20.

      You are such a gullible moron. If it wasn’t so sad, it would be funny.

      1. So you just totally disregard any facts you don’t like. You have decided that’s OK for you.

        1. No one is disregarding anything. If you take a bad enough poll you can get whatever result you want.

          You seem a bit crazy and desperate today. You must be seeing the polls that somewhat reflect reality and are starting to realize Biden is likely a goner.

          You should be happy about that. Four years of Trump means four more years of being an hysterical lunatic without actually having to live in the reality of the idiotic things you think you want.

          1. The more people dig in to their fucking rightwing bubble existence, the less bad I feel when their dreams are dashed.

            1. “I’m not projecting, YOU’RE projecting!”

        2. I’ll put 1k on Biden winning by less than 5 in AZ

  33. Just think about what the “new normal” really entails:
    – No restaurants and bars.
    – No more TV with live actors.
    – No more movies with live actors.
    – No more parades.
    – No more amusement parks.
    – No more festivals and fairs.
    – No more trade shows or similar conventions.
    – No more live entertainment of any kind, including but not limited to
    – sports
    – music
    – theater
    – comedy
    – All stadiums, arenas, ballparks, theaters (movie and other), live venues of any size and type shut down in perpetuity.

    I’m certain others can expand on this list, but the above should make clear to anyone who is not a recluse that this cannot be allowed. It’s time to put an end to this “new normal” bullshit now.

    1. Yeah it sucks. Deadly diseases suck. If only we could deal with it without an entire political cohort of utter whiny babies who can’t handle the remotest challenge in life.

      1. Deadly diseases suck.

        It’s a good thing Sars-Cov-2 is not a deadly disease and has a fatality rate of 1/10 of 1% then.

        1. You’re still going with this as Trump himself is in the hospital, huh? Is he so weak that he’s felled by a mild flu?

          1. Trump is one case out of a population of 320 million people. Statistics don’t change based on who gets the virus you mathematically illiterate fuck hole. He also wasn’t “felled” by anything. He spent a day in the hospital, and if he was anybody other than the president he would have just recovered at home.

      2. Our entire civilization and way of life destroyed and society turned into a horrible impersonal dystopia that likes of which has never been seen in human history and your response is “yeah it sucks”.

        Of all the horrible things I have seen on the internet over the years, your post is the most horrifying. Serious question, what went wrong with you? How does someone get so fucked in the head and so broken that they could say something like you just said?

        My God, Tony how does someone like you exist.

        1. I think you’re engaged in a bit of magical thinking. You seem to think there is some path to totally reopening of the economy with no action taken about the disease. At some point I have to wonder if Republicans are just the laziest fuckers alive.

          You can’t fix the economy and society without curing the disease. I didn’t cause that. Trump is the single human being acting most to make the problem worse. But you’ll never see that because of the (R) next to his name. All I can do is ask kindly that you figure out how to fix the problem with your brain that makes you act like this.

          1. Heart disease kills about 700,000 Americans each year. We must lock down the economy until heart disease is cured.

            See, if you weren’t a sub-50 IQ, economically, mathematically, and scientifically illiterate fuck hole you might realize how abjectly fucking stupid you sound.

            1. Is heart disease contagious and airborne?

              It’s really sad what rightwing media has done to you.

              1. So it’s not actually the lethality or rate of deaths that concerns you, but the fact that the disease is airborne (which the priests of science that you worship were denying vehemently up until about 3 weeks ago)? Since you accuse everyone who is unconcerned with the infinitesimal fatality rate of Covid of being indifferent to human life, is there any particular reason you don’t give a fuck about deaths from any other disease besides this one that allows you to tug your micropenis to the authoritarian boots you lick?

                But hey, let’s play your retarded game. Want to try HIV? MRSA? TB? Influenza? What’s the annual threshold of deaths that excites your micropenis, Tony? Because oddly I’ve never seen you advocate for shutting down the entire world’s economy based on disease vectors before. In fact when Obama was allowing Ebola patients into the USA I recall you praising him for it and calling anyone who opposed it a racist fascist right winger.

                Hey, I wonder if the reason for the discrepancy is that you’re a bootlicking Marxist fuck hole!

                1. I’m not advocating shutting down the entire world’s economy; the economy is depressed because there is a highly contagious deadly disease spreading everywhere.

                  1. It’s depressed partly because of that, and it’s being further hampered because politicians won’t allow businesses to open. People are flexible, government fiat not so much.

                    1. Yeah, people are really good at adapting and getting on with their lives. I’m sure there would have been some kind of economic slowdown because of the pandemic even without the forced shutdowns. But it would have been long over by now if we weren’t being forced to keep doing it and if people weren’t constantly being pummeled with propaganda for the official government line.

                    2. They are opening now. They’ve been opening. Then they keep having to shut it down again because the disease goes rampant. It’s happening with schools in NY and all across Red states in general.

                    3. Define “rampant”, Tony.

                      Do you mean an increase in deaths? Hospitalizations? Cases?
                      How great an increase, and over what period of time?

                  2. I’m not advocating shutting down the entire world’s economy

                    Yeah, fuck hole, you are.

                    the economy is depressed because there is a highly contagious deadly disease spreading everywhere.

                    You mean malaria? Or HIV? Tuberculosis? Diphtheria? Guess what fuck hole. There are always contagious deadly diseases spreading everywhere. The key difference between those diseases and Covid is that Covid has a 1/10 of 1% fatality rate, where all of those have a higher than 10% fatality rate. The fact that an illness is highly contagious means nothing if it isn’t often fatal. Covid isn’t. Also, the economy is depressed because men with guns are physically preventing businesses from operating, not because everybody is a fearful retarded faggot piece of shit like you practicing their duck and cover drills.

        2. How does someone get so fucked in the head and so broken that they could say something like you just said?

          Bear in mind that Tony the fuck hole is a literal Stalin apologist. In the sense that he both denies the number of people Stalin killed and also rationalizes the deaths as a necessary cost of civilization. This is small potatoes compared the literally supporting genocide.

          1. Tulpa, you’ve lost your damn mind.

            1. I’m not Tulpa, and you have literally denied the atrocities of Stalin on numerous occasions you lying fuck hole. You’re a pathetic, sniveling, Marxist bitch. It wouldn’t be fair to say you’ve lost your mind, because you lack human sentience.

              1. Were you the one arguing that the Native Americans were made better when the Europeans murdered almost all of them because the Europeans had 16th century European technology?

                1. No, I came late to that particular thread and since you had already been beaten to a bloody pulp by about 45 other commenters I decided to leave your decimated corpse for the vultures.

                  Imagine how much better the noble savages would have been if we had only had global martial law to protect them from the murderous European smallpox virus!

      3. Remotest challenge in life? Are you fucking kidding me? Everything on my list will come to pass under your beloved “new normal.” All that for a disease that doesn’t even kill anywhere close to a majority of people beyond average life expectancy.

        1. All you have to do is convince all Americans to go back to normal while the virus still spreads.

          1. The virus will continue to spread for decades to come. It became part of the human biota the instant that Chinese researcher first caught the thing. There is a new disease that is rarely but potentially deadly to a very small group of people, the vast majority of whom had other grave and potentially deadly conditions. We can either accept this as the “new normal” or live in a world where the things on my list come to pass.

            1. Just convince everyone else. I’m not going to go to a movie theater any time soon, but maybe the other 300 million will be less risk-averse.

              1. Nobody else needs convincing, fuck hole. That’s why they had to bring in men with guns to force businesses to close down. You’re more than welcome to hide under your desk like a retarded child in a 1950s duck and cover drill collecting your welfare and keeping your AIDS riddled faggot ass alive off Medicaid and neetbux. We all know you’re an incredibly stupid, pathetic, frightened little bitch of a faggot.

                1. This is the part the left seems to forget. All we’re asking is for them to stop pointing the guns at us if we’re not scared of the virus. SOMEBODY has to take the risk, but Karen and Tony are preventing US from doing it because THEY are scared.

                    1. Oh bull. You want to assault anyone with a mask because you feel that you’re a big man and anyone with a mask is a pussy who deserves bullying.

                      I’m surprised you didn’t go into law enforcement. You’d totally fit in.

                    2. Lol

                      I truly pity your daughter.

                2. And yet you reveal your own bigotry Luciano.

                  Why is Tony’s sexuality relevant?

              2. If you are so sure of that, then just stop the mandated closures and everything and let people make their decisions. Without the boot on their necks, people will soon figure out how to get back to life.

                1. How many goddamn times does it have to be explained to you that people are not participating in the economy by choice because of the deadly disease? This country barely even locked down, and it’s certainly not locked down now.

                  Stop thinking in talking points and read something using actual brainpower.

                  1. Dude, you are hopeless.

                  2. The point of my original post was not lockdowns and the economy, it was about social distancing and all of the things we as a society will have to give up if social distancing is maintained in perpetuity.

                    1. Seems like our best bet is to have a federal government not actively working to make the problem worse.

                  3. Stop thinking in talking points, like this: ‘Seems like our best bet is to have a federal government not actively working to make the problem worse?’

              3. “…I’m not going to go to a movie theater any time soon,..”

                Great! Crawl in a hole and stay there.

              4. Tony, why are you so pathetic? Why are you on a libertarian site?

      4. You won’t let us. You keep demanding we lock ourselves away.

    2. Music and sports are my preferred ‘large group activities’. I’ve found one of the best ways to undermine the increasingly pervasive notion of a new normal is simply to share the sorts of things that just can’t exist except under the old normal. Don’t need a lecture or the partisan political horseshit. Just stuff like this video – Cup Song. I have yet to find one person who has not rethought their partisan trenches in favor of making sure that whatever we do now is purely temporary and we will hold people accountable for that.

        1. That’s pretty cool. Thanks.

      1. I would like to think that people are such naturally social animals that they will revolt against all of this. I certainly hope they do. If they do not and this continues, the amount of dispair, mental illness, suicides and the like is going to skyrocket.

        The people I feel the worst for are children. You only get one childhood and it doesn’t last long. And sadly, it is bad enough for a lot of kids as it is. But thanks to this lunacy, we have already deprived kids of months of their childhoods and locked them in their homes away from their friends and all the experiences they should have.

        There isn’t enough hate in the world for people like Tony who wish it to continue. I do not believe that that people like Tony want this to continue for any other reason than spite and hatred. They are all broken pathetic people who want the rest of the world to be as broken and pathetic as they are.

        1. Tony supports lockdowns because Republicans like you oppose them, and you oppose them because Democrats like him support them. Neither of you would even consider the subject on merit or lack thereof. It’s 100% politics.

          You’re both pathetic.

          1. You are a fucking moron who has nothing to add to any conversation. Tony is also a moron but he at least manages to be interesting on occasion. You are just boring.

            1. And you’ve got a bad case of election fever. It’s making you insane.

              1. As post the same bullshit for the tenth time on the same thread. You are so tiresome. Don’t you ever want to say anything smart of funny or interesting?

        2. Problem is that you and your ilk are deliberately lying about the virus/disease itself. Indeed not only are you lying about it, you are deliberately trying to poison the very well of public discussion so that nothing – NOTHING – can be discussed that doesn’t fit your pre-existing narrative of ‘nothing should ever change what was’. It is a perverse sort of conservatism that is based mainly on constipation and ignorance.

          Just to give an example. “Childhood” is not something precious that must be wrapped up and stuck on a pedestal. There is no such thing as ‘stealing a month’ of childhood as some irrevocable ‘tragedy’. The context of eg schools in March is very very different than the context of schools now in Sept. And probably of schools after this next wave where covid and cold/flu can share transmission mechanisms during cold/flu season. Rather than see each of those as different decisions that should be based on the specifics of those contexts – with decisions widely shared by everybody affected by them – you DeRps are just digging the same old trenches deeper and deeper. You just don’t give a shit about anything other than fighting the same old bullshit battles that you’ve been fighting for your entire fucking lives.

          1. You don’t close the schools over a disease that doesn’t kill children.

            The people who are poisoning the well are idiots like you who think that you can buy into the idea that everyone is entitled to a risk free environment yet somehow not end up with the whole world being locked down to achieve that.

            You don’t give up your freedom and your entire way of life over some small risk. And that is all this is, a small risk.

            1. You don’t close the schools over a disease that doesn’t kill children.

              Well you’re wrong. Sweden closed secondary schools in March but generally kept primary schools open (some munis did close but generally for shorter periods until they could fix something specific). Not because the public health issues between the two were much different (if anything elementary is a worse transmission vector) but because closing the elementary schools would’ve kept a lot of health care workers (more female than male) at home rather than at work and that would’ve created a different bottleneck in dealing with covid.

              Further, ‘business as usual’ was NOT Sweden’s approach in those elementary schools. They kept all students with any symptoms (covid or not) out of school until two days after symptoms subsided; ensured that medical access/testing for those kids was universal not dependent on parental income; cancelled all field trips and large group outings; enforced social distancing in classrooms and among students and teachers; enforced hand washing multiple times per day; split classrooms and facilities up so that kids could be spread out and more activities would occur outdoors instead of inside; allowed at-risk teachers/staff to figure out how to work from home and do distance teaching; etc.

              That they were able to do all that – mostly in March and April and certainly over the summer – without having to shut everything down is evidence of competence and holding govt accountable. NOT evidence of your stupidity that covid isn’t even worth thinking about. Afaik – not one govt entity in the US – not D and not R – has actually done that. IMO because neither D nor R EVER holds their own party accountable when they are in charge. They only perpetually blame the other – somewhere else if necessary.

              1. to be fair – L’s also stink to high heaven at holding govt accountable. In large part IMO cuz their ancap wing prefers govt to fail and has no interest in ‘fixing’ anything (or restoring liberty anywhere in anyones lifetime)

        3. There is nobody on earth more responsible for covid spread and economic depression than Donald Trump.

          1. Well, except maybe the Chinese. Please do call me a racist just in case anyone here doesn’t know what a dishonest hack you are.

            1. I just want to know if Trump has personally infected more people than travelers from China.

          2. Just for shits and giggles what exactly could Trump have done differently, both legally and Constitutionally? What power does he have that would have changed things? Keep in mind you threw a bloody fit when he restricted travel from China, one of his few actual powers?

            1. I didn’t throw a fit, you dumb fuck. It’s likely that his racist nonsense China travel policy actually made the problem worse in America (because it urged everyone in China to come home immediately).

              But it’s now October, and there are 210,000 dead, by far the most in the world. So the FUCKING CHINA POLICY DIDN’T WORK YOU GODDAMN IDIOT.

              1. All caps and calling people who disagree with you racist is throwing a fit numbnuts. Gross numbers is meaningless when we are the 3rd largest populated country in the world, deaths per capita is more accurate but still probe to over interpretation. And I noticed you fucking avoided the question by deflecting and focusing only on the China travel ban (which I never said worked BTW, just stated it was one of his few actual powers he could use).
                Considering I never stated the China travel ban worked or didn’t, not sure why you are screaming and calling me a Goddamn idiot. I just pointed out it was one of the few acts he could actually do and you were unhappy with it. Please elaborate on what actual policies he could have introduced and how those would have kept our fatality rate down?

          3. Well, there are the governors who actually enacted policy, whereas orangemanbad left it to the states. Something something talking points something something brainpower.

      2. Awesome thank you.

        1. The link was great.

          Do not forget the classic Pat Boone version.

          https://youtu.be/z67IqrmygZY

      3. “I’ve found one of the best ways to undermine the increasingly pervasive notion of a new normal is simply to share the sorts of things that just can’t exist except under the old normal.”

        And that was precisely the point of my post. I don’t think the pants-shitters have really thought this through…or maybe they have.

        1. I don’t think the pants-shitters have really thought

          Stop you right there.

  34. Caldwell Police told KTVB that Bundy, an Emmett native, went to the game at Caldwell High School and was told he needed to wear a mask before entering the stands. Bundy refused to wear one and stepped over to the chain-link fence around the field to watch the game.
    The principal and athletic director asked Bundy repeated to wear a mask or leave school grounds, according to police. Bundy refused to do either and the principal requested Caldwell police arrest Bundy for trespassing on school grounds.
    Officers refused to arrest Bundy, saying he “wasn’t out of control and didn’t appear to be a threat to anybody.” Police say officers told school officials that they wouldn’t physically remove Bundy from the property and that they would file a report and pass it along to the Canyon County Prosecutor.

    Again, outside, not near other patrons, and didn’t enter the stands when told he couldn’t. But, finally, some cops who have some common sense. Breathing outside air away from other people is not a violation of the NAP worthy of a beat down and tasing.

    As for why the school would stop the game for a guy standing outside the field and stands without a mask on, you can only speculate, because they didn’t even bother with FYTW.

    1. But I constantly see dumb, scared people wearing masks outside–not near (and REALLY not near) anyone else. Or driving alone in cars.

      Its a religious belief, and heretics will not be tolerated.

      1. My kids school requires parents to wear masks in their cars when dropping off or picking up their kids (parents stay in the car).

        Oh, and it’s a religious school, but I’m starting to wonder if they are changing the religion . . .

      2. You’re a goddamn death cult. What is it about masks? Is it that you have no penis? Grow a penis and stop being embarrassed by hygiene. It’s ridiculous.

        1. Everything is related to penises somehow….

        2. Tony, this is pathetic even for you, and that says a lot.

          1. As pathetic as throwing a little girl tantrum over simple hygiene measure?

            1. Throwing a tantrum? See your reply above where you use all caps to call me a Goddamn idiot and I hadn’t even said what you fucking implied I said. I never stated the China Travel Bam was effective nor good, just that it was one of the few things the President actually can do legally and Constitutionally. But you took that to mean I was stating it worked and went off the fucking deep end.

              1. It’s a national health emergency, he actually has a lot of power. And it’s not like he’s been shy about taking power for himself. You’re trying to excuse his monumental incompetence any way you slice it. But I’m sorry for implying that you thought his one action on Covid was effective. I’m glad you can see clearly that it wasn’t.

    2. It is Canyon County, not quite as infected with progressivism as Ada or Latah Counties. Still a lot of rural, no nonsense agricultural residents. Also, considering the crime rate in Caldwell, the police probably felt they had more important issues to deal with than someone standing around outside without a mask.

    3. “As for why the school would stop the game for a guy standing outside the field and stands without a mask on, you can only speculate, because they didn’t even bother with FYTW.” My sister “Karen”, who hates Bundy, claims people in the stands were threating to beat him up. The admin had no choice but to cave to the mob don’t ya see.

  35. Sales of firearms and ammo have never been as high as they have been since the virus hit. This is not how authoritarianism looks. Freedom has never been as well safeguarded as it is today.

    1. People being scared by government overreach, rioting, and police being defunded/abolished do not present as support for one of your ridiculous assertions.

  36. Maybe if the anti-mask rat lickers could get with the program and help the rest of us to put a lid on this thing, we wouldn’t need as much government intrusion. Every time the government lifts some restrictions, these selfish jamokes immediately act like everything’s back to normal…and then we have another spike that prompts the government to reimpose restrictions. The anti-maskers have already screwed up Halloween for us. Are they going to take Thanksgiving and Christmas away for us too?

    1. “Maybe if the anti-mask rat lickers could get with the program and help the rest of us to put a lid on this thing, we wouldn’t need as much government intrusion…”

      Fuck off, slaver.

      1. These people.

        I’ve no more words.

        1. I’ve got plenty, but a knee-crawling piece of shit like that isn’t worthy of them

          1. Whatsamatter, cupcake? Was it more important for you to go get drunk at the bar than to overcome a simple challenge? I mean, wearing a mask and social distancing takes almost NO effort whatsoever, but apparently it’s too much for a whiny weakling like you.

            1. Wear the star on your arm. No effort involved at all. It’s for your safety.

            2. Living as a free citizen does take courage and effort, serf.

            3. How about addressing the many, many other things we will need to give up as a society besides going to bars. I have a post above about those. Tell me which of those things will still exist in your “ultra-moderate” world. Social distancing in perpetuity destroys many of the things that make life worth living.

      2. Thanks for ruining everyone’s Christmas, you self-centered crybaby. Whatever ability this country once had to make sacrifices and overcome challenges doesn’t exist in you.

        1. Why are you leftist so pathetic? And why do you infest a libertarian website?

    2. This is a highly contagious virus with a relatively long incubation time. We are not going to “get a lid on it.” We never were. That’s why we were originally sold the “flatten-the-curve bullshit. Even the people pushing that con job were admitting that the measure was only intended to slow the spread of the virus, not stop it completely. We will not “get a lid on it” until there is an effective and widely distributed vaccine, and even that will not eliminate it completely (See: Measles). How long are you willing to endure this “new normal” for something that may be years away, if it comes at all? For a disease with a 99.8% or better survival rate for most people?

      1. Judging by how I’m reading the ‘normies’? Buckle up buckaroos.

      2. South Korea put a lid on it. You’re just another crybaby making excuses. Go eat a dog turd, sissy.

        1. Eat a bullet, comrade.

    3. I am. Consider your holidays cancelled from here on out. And here’s a rat, get to licking, pissmaggot.

  37. I’m witnessing my province descend into pure, dark madness.

    I’m depressed.

    FUCK YOU FRANCOIS LEGAULT YOU PIECE OF SHIT LIAR.

    1. Brother, I am in Michigan. Talk about madness.

  38. J.D,

    For a moment, consider the drawing board.

    As it stands, Sweden has relatively socialized health care already. And on that note, they have anything relatively socialist already:

    https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/sweden-socialist-no/

    Before comparing specific responses to any current event, consideration of pre-existing responses of standing government policies may make handy reference, as well, for us all to read about.

  39. Any governor who utters the phrase “new normal” should have all of his or her emergency measures automatically rescinded. “Normal” and “emergency” are mutually exclusive.

    Although, really, there shouldn’t even be any emergency measures still in place anymore. “Emergency” doesn’t mean “important”. It requires an “emergent” situation. If you’re feeling the need to renew “emergency” rules, perhaps it’s time to consult your legislature and pass actual laws.

    1. Was there a new normal for the “Spanish Flu”? That was much worse than this one.

  40. Why do you true Libertarians tolerate leftist filth? I am an evangelical conservative Christian, and I will not pretend to be libertarian. I truly appreciate libertarian philosophy and thought. I just don’t think it will work as a governing philosophy. Many of you here challenge my thinking. I don’t understand why there is not an alliance between conservatives and real libertarians.

    1. Most of the whining turds here at Reason are Leftists posing as Libertarians. Yes, there is a natural alliance between real Libertarians and Conservatives but these soy boys are not Libertarians. They are indulgent Leftists who imagine Libertarianism reflects their Libertine hedonism.

      1. Libertarian is not a cake walk, but you really may be evaluated by your peers who will be willing to reject you if they sense that you could be a “libertarian hedonist.”

        Expect them to tear up any cheque you may give to them and then deposit its remains inside of your pocket protector.

        I mean, you would dare enjoy the fruit of your labor on this man’s watch?

        Now throw him a cookie …

    2. God is a superstition, and theocracy is not compatible with freedom.

      1. Only you and your in-group bring up theocracy when religion is mentioned. It’s not even a slightly convincing strawman, given freedom of religion’s place in the Bill of Rights.

        1. I know it’s not convincing, but religion is so massively destructive I do not permit moderation for myself on the issue.

    3. There was a sort of alliance when there were small government conservatives. Those days are over if they ever existed. As for so called liberals today they are not in any way liberal and have not been for decades.

    4. So you’ve already been chipped, looks like.

      First and foremost, your labels not only mean nothing, they excuse your ineffective regard for whomever chooses you to be hammering them into the ground next.

      Libertarians do not have as much to worry about as mystery-rule wing types because they accept that unless you at least want to produce, then the laws of economics can’t but work against you unless you happen to be cult leader status and part of extensive bandwagon.

  41. U won’t let us. u keep demanding we lock ourselves away.
    Life Status Sad

  42. This article has brought out the nonsense of “Left-Libertarians” so-called. Although, there is no such thing as a Left-Libertarian. They are Leftists …. Marxists …. Collectivists. Period. These whining turds are the enemies of Liberty not its supporters.

  43. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new… after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

    Here’s what I do…>> Copy Here→→→→→ Click Here

  44. Tucille! Your man in the White House! More than likely still infectious, takes his mask off on the balcony, turns around and walks into the White House where other people are! Wow! I mean they’re wearing masks to protect him and others, he could care less for them. You must have been clapping for such a wonderful example of personal liberty, personal choice!

    When Reason polls it’s writers as to who they are voting, he’s gotta be your candidate.

    1. And, how close was the nearest unprotected person, o’ hyperventilating one?

  45. “The ‘lockdown measures’ adopted by many European states have disproportionately impacted racialized individuals and groups who were targeted with violence, discriminatory identity checks, forced quarantines and fines,” Except in the US where those ‘racialized’ people are allowed to protest, riot, loot and ignore restrictions while the law abiding are not.

  46. People NEVER need to be forced to do the smart thing. Why? It’s not smart to violate a persons sovereignty. Being free means free to choose unwisely.
    Fun fact: Today’s unhealthy choice is tomorrow’s healthy choice. Once it was common practice for doctors to bleed out the evil spirits to cure. People who rejected it were sometimes forced to have it done, resulting in their death. When it was exposed that the forced treatment was harmful, it was justified as “done in good faith”. Can it ever be called “good faith” to force your beliefs on others? If you claim that practicality justifies it, you are assuming the belief is true, which it may not be, even when 99% believe. Forced compliance punishes the 1%. and violates everybody’s rights.

  47. Sweden. The bastion of socialist . . . freedom?

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  49. There is never any normal as long as we have liberals, Marxists, progressives, the hard left, and socialists trying to force everyone into servitude. There losers are really brain dead and lost in the past of 150 years ago. The dream of utopia, run by a super oppressive government which can’t even run a post office efficiently.

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