Florida

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Banned Localities From Collecting Mask Fines. Local Officials Say They'll Keep Issuing Fines Anyway.

Police in the Miami-area have been proactively issuing $100 fines to people not wearing masks outside.

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Florida localities are in rebellion following an order from Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) forbidding them from collecting fines and penalties "associated with COVID-19 enforced upon individuals."

That prohibition on collecting fines came as part of a larger executive order DeSantis issued this past Friday allowing restaurants and bars that serve food to open at 100 percent capacity statewide.

Mask-mandating municipalities across the state say that they will continue to enforce their local COVID-19 restrictions, regardless of the governor's order

"We will continue to issue citations for those not wearing masks. It is a public safety measure," said Miami-Dade County Mayor Carlos Gimenez, in a Tuesday press conference. "We cannot collect fines, but we can issue fines. The county will collect once the governor's order expires."

Miami-Dade police and code enforcement officers are empowered to issue fines of up to $100 to individuals who are out of compliance with the county's New Normal guidelines, which require a mask be worn in public at all times.

The city of Miami has even stiffer penalties on the books. Those not wearing masks are subject to $100 fines on the first and second offense and arrest for a third violation.  The city has also dedicated 39 police officers to enforcing its mask mandate.

Many of the states and localities that have imposed mask mandates have not proactively enforced them, effectively making them non-binding guidelines.

That's not been the case in the Miami area. Miami-Dade police issued 162 citations within the first two weeks of having its mask mandate on the books, according to the Miami Herald. Police reportedly ticketed people for taking their mask off outside, and for not having it cover one's nose. As of mid-August, the Herald reports that Miami Dade police have issued 225 citations.

The city of Miami Beach has been even more proactive. Between late July and mid-August, officials there have issued fines to 288 people worth a collective $14,440.

The Herald again has documented how many of these fines were issued to people not wearing masks outside.

Other local governments in Florida have instead focused their enforcement against businesses, who can be fined for not enforcing mask-wearing and social distancing protocols for patrons and employees. The ability to fine businesses is presumably unaffected by DeSantis' order, which restricts itself to suspending fines for individuals.

The Naples Daily News reports that businesses and local governments are seeking clarification on the extent of the governor's order.

There's an argument for mask mandates on libertarian grounds, namely that they correct for the negative externality of people walking around infecting others. By mitigating the spread of COVID-19, these mandates make the need for other, more onerous COVID-19 restrictions obsolete.

This theoretical case has to be weighed against how mask mandates, and the enforcement of them, works in the real world.

"With masks, the question is how mandates work when compared to the next best alternative," wrote economists Steve Horwitz and Donald J. Boudreaux in an op-ed for The Detroit News.

"How many more people would use masks if they are mandated versus simply relying on strong social pressure and private sector no-mask, no-service rules? It might not be many," the two write, adding that "by creating more opportunities for encounters between law enforcement and the citizenry, mask mandates create yet one more way for authorities to harass the relatively powerless."

Studies showing the effectiveness of mask mandates often do not measure the level of enforcement or rates of compliance with those mandates, nor do they distinguish the effect of government mask mandates versus societal norms encouraging mask-wearing.

The way Miami is enforcing mask requirements vindicates the case against these mandates. Police are setting up mask traps and randomly fining people not wearing masks outside, where the risks of transmission are much lower.

DeSantis was right to try to put a stop to these abuses with his executive order. Hopefully, more will be done to prevent those municipalities from trying to issue fines.

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  1. More like Carlos Karenez, amirite!?

    Seriously, though, does the mayor have some kind of polling that suggests this is what the people want? Politically, that looks like a bad position.

    Then again, never underestimate the desire of people to see others fined for “unacceptable” behaviors.

    1. When you’re the top Democrat in a jurisdiction that votes reliably 80% democrat, you don’t need any polling data.

      1. Miami never voted 80% Democrat or anything close. It’s typically around 60%. And both this mayor and the past one have been Republican.

        1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new…TRf after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

          Here’s what I do…>> Click here

        2. I Make Money At H0me.Let’s start work offered by Google!!Yes,this is definitely the most financially rewarding Job I’ve had . Last Monday I bought a great Lotus Elan after I been earning $9534 this-last/5 weeks and-a little over, $10k last month . . I started this four months/ago and immediately started to bring home minimum $97 per/hr

          Heres what I do……………………………………………… More INformation Here

    2. The mask fines will get thrown out because the government has zero power to require such a thing.

      1. People need to start to comprehend how much money they can make, suing these municipal terrorists for exceeding their jurisdiction and acting outside their authority.
        You can make a good living just ending cops careers, seizing their property and pension, along with the mayors, prosecutors etc.

        If that doesn’t work, en masse public hangings are in order.

    3. The better than thou New Yorkers set up shop in the greater Miami area to avoid paying taxes and to generally ruin the state for the rest of us. The only polling they need is to parrot what ever stupid idea De Blasio has pushed back home.

    4. I Make Money At H0me.Let’s start work offered by Google!!Yes,this is definitely the most financially rewarding Job I’ve had . Last Monday I bought a great Lotus Elan after I been earning $9534 this-last/5 weeks and-a little over, $10k last month . . I started this four months/ago and immediately started to bring home minimum $97 per/hr

      Heres what I do……………………………………………… More INformation Here

    5. Just a specialized case of “never underestimate the power of human stupidity.”

  2. Any serious and unbiased state-by-state examination of pandemic responses will reveal two things: (A) Andrew Cuomo’s New York has had by far the best performance, and (B) states with Republican governors like Florida and Georgia have performed the worst.

    #ILoveScience

    1. I think you forgot the tags…

      1. Guess I can’t post html tags here…

        I think you forgot the sarcasm tags OBL.

        1. OBL never uses sarcasm tags. It’s just his/her schtick.

        2. The OBL moniker is the sarcasm tag.

          The best troll here, IMHO. Certainly the most entertaining.

          1. I like the official judge of performative outrage. Short, to the point, and………official.

    2. #ILoveScience

      *Chef’s kiss*

      1. “There’s an argument for mask mandates on libertarian grounds, namely that they correct for the negative externality of people walking around infecting others. By mitigating the spread of COVID-19, these mandates make the need for other, more onerous COVID-19 restrictions obsolete.”

        Yet, there’s a glaring lack of argument for mask mandates on SCIENCE!tific grounds.

    3. #RepublicansForCreationistScience
      #EvolutionLiesGOPCreationistScience

      1. You can’t into satire, can you Plug.

        If I was a lefty I would have instead said:
        “The world is 6000 years old.
        #TeachtheControversy

        But then again, lefties are shit at humour and can’t meme, so I maybe wouldn’t have.

        1. Meme-ing is the coloring book version of humor. There are no great conservative comedians, with Norm being the only exception I can think of. Ok, Foxworthy and Ron White are all right. But that’s about it.

          1. One more: I am pretty sure Jim Breuer is a conservative, and he is hilarious.

          2. Denis Miller had his moments, I thought.

            Perhaps more libertarian than conservative, but I enjoy Doug Stanhope and Adam Corolla pretty well.

            1. I don’t find Denis Miller funny. Stanhope is great, but def not conservative. I’ve never heard Corolla’s standup.

              1. stupid people don’t get Miller lol

            2. Norm Macdonald, Adam Sandler, Jim Davidson, Bryan Callen…

              And still sell out arenas prior to covid, Larry the cable guy, Foxworthy, Dunham.

              Chipper is just ignorant. And unfunny.

              1. Wait, Sandler’s conservative? He doesn’t seem particularly political, which tends to get you labeled as a “conservative” by the woketards these days, but I’ve never heard him come out in favor of any legitimate conservative policies.

                1. He has supported Republicans anyway.

              2. If that’s all you can come up with, you are proving my point, dawg.

          3. Oh great. The least funny person here giving lessons on comedy. The irony.

    4. At least get it right: #ILoveFuckingScience

      1. Yes, but does Science love Fucking you, or are you raping Science?

        1. It does what it’s told or it gets the hose again.

    5. If you define “best performance” as creating panic porn out of thin air as a “response” to a non-existent problem. “Oooh, I might catch a cold so let’s put all of us morons in face diapers and wreck the economy. I bet we can kill LOTS more people that way.”

  3. “There’s an argument for mask mandates on libertarian grounds”

    No.

    There is no libertarian argument for a government mandate enforced by armed government agents in armor and paid for with money taken by force from the populace.

    Has Reason lost its mind?

      1. Objection: Assumes facts not in evidence (that Reason had a mind to lose).

        1. Overruled.
          Reason articles are published daily.

    1. I think Reason lost its mind a long time ago.

    2. I did a double take at that. How many flavors are they making boot polish in these days?

      1. Depends.Are the boots needing the polich Hungarian or Czechoslovakian or Polish boots?

    3. Prog platitudes are the new libertarianism.

  4. Well, Christian, as a good journalist I am sure you researched the differences in infection rates between Miami and a similar city that does not fine for “cloth face covering” violations. Unfortunately, the editors let that part of the article slip away.
    Would you be so kind as to have that part of the article posted?

      1. So they changed the author of the Reason article to Veronique. It initially said it was by Christian. Shouldn’t there be a note of correction if the initial posting of the article had the wrong author?

  5. Follow the science or follow the money?

    1. the Miami Vice Squad are obviously following the money route.. snatching Benjamins from the publix has never been so easy. No mug nappie, no C Notey.

      and da coppers iz wundrin WHY it be dat fokes jes plain DOAN lahk ’em. Duhhhhhhh

      I’d take that to court and present solid scientific evidence on two facts: first, that the mug nappies DO NOT block transmission of the virus in one’s exhalant, and second, that virus, in outdoor sunlit air at temps common around Florida’s Atlantic Coast this time of year cannot survive more than about a half minute out in that air. Next, I’d hit them with making them PROVE the gummit uffishuls really DO have the authority to impose such demands, ND make them prove their sceintific basis that these measures really DO “keep others safe”.
      Lying scumbag gummit poohbahs.

  6. Nevertheless, actions were taken. Maritime quarantines were declared on islands such as Iceland, Australia, and American Samoa, saving many lives.

    Social distancing measures were introduced, for example closing schools, theatres, and places of worship, limiting public transportation, and banning mass gatherings.[97] Wearing face masks became common in some places, such as Japan, though there were debates over their efficacy.[97] There was also some resistance to their use, as exemplified by the Anti-Mask League of San Francisco. Vaccines were also developed, but as these were based on bacteria and not the actual virus, they could only help with secondary infections.

    The actual enforcement of various restrictions varied.

    A later study found that measures such as banning mass gatherings and requiring the wearing of face masks could cut the death rate up to 50 percent, but this was dependent on them being imposed early in the outbreak and not being lifted prematurely.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

    1. A later study found that measures such as banning mass gatherings and requiring the wearing of face masks could cut the death rate up to 50 percent, but this was dependent on them being imposed early in the outbreak and not being lifted prematurely.

      So, with the infinite power of hindsight, they only choose to save 50% through relatively brutal oppression?

      If they’d found patient zero early enough, they could’ve prevented 100% of the deaths without imposing any gathering bans or mask mandates.

      It’s like if you gave the motherfuckers magic wands that ran on science, they’d still choose to cut humanity’s numbers in half and enslave the rest.

    2. A later study found that measures such as banning mass gatherings and requiring the wearing of face masks could cut the death rate up to 50 percent, but this was dependent on them being imposed early in the outbreak and not being lifted prematurely.

      I wasn’t harsh enough in my previous assessment. This is pure, unadulterated revisionist history bullshit. What masks were they going to use in 1918? N95s? Were they going to stop the war in order to produce N95s cheaply enough that even the poorest immigrant in any/every ghetto in NYC could afford one? The idea that gathering bans and mask mandates could’ve prevented 50% of the deaths is not even well-thought-out fictional bullshit. They couldn’t even stop people from distilling and drinking alcohol.

  7. Is it just me, or does this sort of thing seem to happen exclusively where Democrats are in charge?

    1. It’s just you. Republican controlled states are in full pants-shitting-terror mode as well. Nowhere is safe from the Karens.

      1. We’ll just have to take your word for it

  8. I’ve never been to Miami-Dade and I’m pretty sure I never will go since it sounds like a Karen Paradise. If a “mask at all times outside” mandate stands, I suspect a “mask at all times inside” mandate won’t be far behind. Those wankers probably wear a mask when they’re taking a shower.

    1. If you like tits and ass, South Beach is a glorious place to visit.

      1. MB is where safe sex is a padded headboard.

    2. Come to West Palm Beach
      We are open for business.
      Clematis Street and Atlantic Avenue are busy.
      No outdoor mask mandate.
      Many businesses are not enforcing indoor mask wearing.
      We are a little more family oriented, but still plenty of tits and ass are seen.

    3. The closer you get to the beach, the more Karen’s. The closer you get to the glades, no one cares.

  9. Sooo dear Gov DeSantis. You have unleashed the hounds and now they won’t be brought to heel?

    Hope you remember this next time you get the fool idea in your head that your government title means you are in charge.

    1. The executive order only banned the collection of fines, not the issuance of fines. I am not sure why that distinction was drawn, but that explains that “defiance” from localities.

      Either the executive order was inadvertently drafted with a fairly obvious loophole, or it was only intended to offer a temporary reprieve from collections.

      1. In a sane world, not being able to collect fines would reduce the urge of a local municipality from issuing fines.

        The issue seems to be that we do not live in a sane world.


        “We cannot collect fines, but we can issue fines. The county will collect once the governor’s order expires.”

        A more concise statement: FYTW.

  10. namely that they correct for the negative externality of people walking around infecting others

    Fuck you with a rust pitchfork Shitschgi. The do *not* correct for them, they *attempt* to correct for them. For the prevalence of asymptomatic transmission, they do precisely jack shit and, moreover, if I pass someone corona through a mask and they die from it, which can and does *still* happen, the mask did precisely jack shit at a cost that it in no way corrects for. The only way you arrive at the conclusion you state is if you ignore the fact that people are *constantly* being infected by things day-in and day-out and decide that some sorts of infections make people special or different.

    This is as retarded as anything Shikha has ever written.

  11. The libertarian argument for mask mandates is dependent on the assumption that the masks are effective at correcting the negative externality. Evidence for that assumption remains distressingly weak.

    1. Exactly. It only narrowly corrects some externalities that may or may not be negative and doesn’t completely correct clearly negative externalities.

      1. Back when details mattered there used to be explanations that it takes about 15 minutes of time with close contact to pick up sufficient viral load to become infected. That’s been gaslighted now

        1. The libertarian argument for “it’s up to you to keep yourself safe by avoiding others who are not wearing masks” trumps the argument for mask mandates enforced by armed agents of the state “correct(ing) for the negative externality of people walking around infecting others”. FFS!

    2. CDC statement on masks and the ‘real’ flu:
      Quote.
      Background; Masks are not usually recommended in non-healthcare settings; however, this guidance provides other strategies for limiting the spread of influenza viruses in the community.
      Unvaccinated Asymptomatic Persons, Including Those at High Risk for Influenza Complications
      No recommendation can be made at this time for mask use in the community by asymptomatic persons, including those at high risk for complications, to prevent exposure to influenza viruses.”
      End quote.

      However, the CDC claims that science says a “cloth face covering” (specifically distinct from a real mask) consisting of anything from a single layer of cheesecloth to a doubled over turkish towel is effective against one particular virus.
      Inquiring minds call bullshit.

    3. There is no libertarian argument for mask mandates.

      If there were, there would be a libertarian argument in favor of the War on Drugs or the Green New Deal or the federal income tax. There is not.

      There is never a libertarian argument that favors using armed and armored agents of the state to brutally impose upon peaceful people.

      Mask effectiveness has nothing to do with the argument.

      1. re: “There is never a libertarian argument that favors …”

        Sure there is. The problem with your argument is that you are assuming the definition of peaceful. If one could show that drugs make people non-peaceful, then you could make a legitimately “libertarian” argument for a war on drugs.

        Now, I would agree that you can’t make such an argument such an argument in favor of the war on drugs but I say that because neither you nor anyone else can prove the premise, not because such an argument is fundamentally unlibertarian.

        re: taxes – I’ll repeat what I said a few days ago in another thread. Government is too big but we are libertarians, not anarchists. We all believe that there are some things government should still do (even if we disagree about what those are). However small that list is, it must be paid for. Collecting money to pay for those things is necessarily compatible with libertarianism. Otherwise, how are you distinguishing libertarianism from anarchy?

        1. You are assuming that collecting money to pay for those things needs to be done coercively.

        2. “Collecting money to pay for those things is necessarily compatible with libertarianism.”

          Do you draw any distinction among the methods of collection (i.e. fines, penalties, taxes, etc.). Does the basis for collection factor into the analysis?

          Also, collection begets more collection because you have to collect to pay the collectors. The spool for big government unravels yet again, in my view.

          1. While there are clear advantages and disadvantages to different methods of collection, no the method does not factor into the analysis of whether libertarians can ever theoretically support taxes.

            Consider the alternative. Again, we are not anarchists. Some hopefully-minimal government is necessary. Yet we cannot compel public officials to work without pay. That would be slavery. Whatever limited government services we agree to have to be paid for. That money must come from somewhere.

            No system is perfect. And yes, bad methods of collection can make the problems much, much worse. But saying that “all taxation is theft” is an anarchistic statement, not a libertarian one. That is, it can be true only if either a) you have no government goods and services to pay for – which means no government or b) you have a wildly unrealistic expectation of human nature and free-ridership.

            1. Your premise was that “[c]ollecting money to pay for [small government services] is necessarily compatible with libertarianism.”

              Money for libertarian goals can be collected in very un-libertarian ways. I do not think your initial premise is correct.

        3. “If one could show that drugs make people non-peaceful, then you could make a legitimately “libertarian” argument for a war on drugs.”

          NO

          The US Constitution is clear. You are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Period.

          There is never any type of Constitutional or libertarian argument that allows government agents to assume you are violent without you being violent.

          1. The Constitutional argument is called “probable cause.”

            1. At the point where we make non-violent action “probable cause” for a violent arrest, putting on a badge and uniform of a drug warrior can be automatic reason to defend yourself with deadly force.

              Badges don’t grant rights.

              Cops get their arrest powers from the same place we do. If they can arrest us for being Americans, we can arrest them for being police.

              Remember, the phrase on the warrant is capture or kill. I got no issue with killing cops who are committing violent felonies in the name of drug laws. None. At. All.

        4. There is now a libertarian argument for speed limits.

          Huzzah!
          What are libertarians good for again? Cuz it obviously ain’t freedom.

        5. “If one could show that drugs make people non-peaceful”

          There is one drug that is commonly known – and has been known for millenia – to make a small but significant percentage of users violent, and another percentage reckless to the point of endangering others lives. It’s the drug that the USA legalized again in 1933, and hardly any other non-Muslim country ever even tried to ban. In just 13 years, we’d learned that it’s better to have drunken bar fights and drunk drivers than gang wars over drug-dealing turf, or heavily armed cops performing no-knock raids.

      2. Libertarians would accept convincing arguments for wearing masks not laws to wear some mask.

        Rossami has no idea what libertarianism is. He thinks states have plenary powers and has been cited wrong over and over.

        Masks requirements are plenary powers and have no constitutional authority for states or federal government.

  12. … namely that they correct for the negative externality of people walking around infecting others.
    No evidence whatsoever to back up this claim.

  13. What part of the statistics of this virus do you NOT understand! We have the data now. The data says it is now worse than the typical flu! Just like the flu, elderly and health compromise citizens should do more to avoid exposure! Since when in history has the healthy quarantined themselves? NEVER!

    Coronavirus Disease (COVID 19) Guidelines according to WHO.

    1. Did you mean “no worse”?

    2. Spambot here has more libertarian principles than almost the entire Reason staff.

  14. Clearly, people are not dying in the streets, ER’s are not overrun, and masks are not effective…at least for stopping viruses like this flavor of the year. Look no further than Dr. Ted Noel’s mask test drives while vaping. If a fart can get thru jeans for you to catch the wave, you decide if that mask is effective. But if masks “work”, why haven’t they “worked” up to now? Quarantining the healthy is abjectly bass-ackwards and we all know it. We’re still murdering babies, still selling alcohol and cigarettes, so we are a stupid, selfish, ignorant people; our priorities are grossly and willingly misplaced. If we’re pursuing “healthcare”, we need to be aiming to snuff those top 3 killers of people, not taking people’s wages for not wearing a small ineffective piece of cloth over their nose and mouth. But we don’t have to guess any longer…the magistrate that it supposed to be about protecting us and encouraging us to honor our Creator is right out in the open about what motivates them and what’s important to them. At least we don’t have to wonder.

    1. “If a fart can get thru jeans”

      Farts are gas, of course cloth isn’t going to stop them. Viruses are solid particles, and they are exhaled mostly in droplets of saliva and snot. These droplets have a poor chance of getting through cloth or paper, because they’ll stick to anything they touch. The protection isn’t perfect, especially since exhaling pushes the mask away from your face and tends to let totally unfiltered air out around the edges, but it’s far better than nothing.

      Except for the really fancy masks with a thick filter and a valve to open on the exhale and let unfiltered air out, masks are likely to be less effective at protecting the people wearing them. Those droplets dry up, leaving non-sticky particles of only a few viruses stuck together – and these particles are probably smaller than the ones used to test “N95” masks. So the mask may stop 90% of the outgoing viruses and 10% of the incoming.

      But the question is whether those dried-up viruses are still viable? Most of the most contagious diseases (e.g., influenza, colds, and measles) are viruses that will dry up completely and survive to go airborne for many minutes or even hours. OTOH, the SARS virus is dead within seconds of becoming dry, or a few feet beyond the range of a sneeze. It spreads because victims can be emitting quarts of infected bodily fluids (sometimes it dissolves the skin in the last stage), and it takes extra effort to contain all those puddles – but mainly because it hits areas where witch-doctors are still more common than modern medical practitioners, and even the people that know what should be done have trouble getting just gloves and disinfectant, let alone the containment rooms, isolation suits, and disinfectant showers that a modern hospital relies upon for a killer contagion. (And SARS is a true killer, while COVID-19 is only dangerous to a few percent of especially vulnerable people.)

      So where does COVID-19 rank in surviving past the carrier droplet? We don’t know yet. Masks, the six foot rule, and everything else done in attempts to contain it have been based on guesses that it might be like other diseases…

  15. Since when has government cared about public safety? Drug prohibition sure doesn’t increase public safety. The SC has said repeatedly cops don’t have any duty to protect anyone but now they arrest people for not wearing masks. Masks are bullshit useless.

  16. It’s a matter of jurisdiction. Who has ultimate jursidiction in matters like this? Conservatives are all over the map recently. Trump says he is ultimately in charge. Conservative governors say they get to make the rules. County level conservatives say rules need to be set at the local level. It’s actually they all get to make the rules so long as they can grandstand about them. That’s the new conservative way. There is no principle just feelz. The new Right has become the old Left, it’s all about feelings and symbols.

    But Federalism has the answer. Public health is at the state level in cases of infection disease, but administered at the local level. So the governor can issue rules (with court oversight) to deter disease transmission, but the local administration of the rules, such as collecting of fines to go into local coffers to fund local public health efforts, are the purview of the localities. And except for matters that affect the citizens of the several states, such as regulations on travel, it’s none of the federal government’s business.

    It is a bit sloppy, but easy enough to figure out when you consider the jurisdictions and existing powers. Pandemics do NOT give anyone expanded jursidictions or new powers. All actions are still subject to the laws of the land and court oversights.

    1. //It’s a matter of jurisdiction. Who has ultimate jursidiction in matters like this?//

      The State has jurisdiction, and the ultimate power — not localities. How to distribute responsibility for public health measures (or, for that matter, any government measures) is ultimately a matter of discretion for the State. Localities only have the power that the State grants to them.

      There is always a back and forth tug of war between local jurisdictions and the State, and it is not a conflict limited to conservatives. It seems like you were just looking to slam conservatives, since the answer to your question was simple and straightforward.

    2. >>The new Right has become the old Left, it’s all about feelings and symbols.

      you’re entertaining today.

  17. Did you ever wonder what life would be like if the TSA escaped from airports and infected public life at large?

    1. …and to think that they are Public-Employee Unionized and can never be eradicated.

  18. So Miami has 39 cops dedicated to mask enforcement (ie they do nothing else) and a total of 225 tickets have been issued. Less than 6 per officer total over how many months?

  19. MAKE REASON LIBERTARIAN AGAIN

  20. “There’s an argument for mask mandates on libertarian grounds, namely that they correct for the negative externality of people walking around infecting others.”

    Looks like Ron DeSantis not only understands the scientific evidence on masks far better than Reason, but he’s also is far more libertarian than Reason.

  21. issue and collect are not the same thing.

    >There’s an argument for mask mandates on libertarian grounds, namely that they correct for the negative externality of people walking around infecting others.

    you just mandated forevermasks for everybody for everything. try better.

    1. try better.

      Disagree. Don’t try better. Fuck off and die. Trying better means they wind up at my doorstep with a mask and force me to shoot them.

      1. true. I just meant Christian should think harder … how about “think harder”?

        1. Ah, yeah, “think harder, write better, try again” agreed.

  22. Hey, mask use is only ‘strongly suggested’, right?

    1. There are no mandates, that’s the fever dreams of Trumpian commenters!

  23. Pretty sure this will require infecting some of those racist white people to get the numbers required:

    “Facing deep racial disparities, California unveils equity road map counties must follow to reopen”
    […]
    “California public health officials Wednesday evening revealed the final metric that counties must meet before they can further reopen their economies. It’s a complicated marker meant to ensure that communities of color no longer bear the brunt of the coronavirus pandemic.
    The new “health equity” measurement had been promised by state officials for several weeks, since California’s new color-coded tier system for economic and social reopening was announced.
    It was not immediately clear how the metric would affect Bay Area counties’ ability to progress toward reopening, though it appears that many regions will struggle to bridge large health disparities that mostly impact Latino, Black and Pacific Islander communities….”
    https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/California-unveils-coronavirus-equity-roadmap-for-15610779.php?cmpid=gsa-sfgate-result

    1. So, I guess no reopening until blacks no longer have diabetes and heart disease at disproportionate rates?

      1. What is sickle cell, chopped liver?

      2. What kind of gobbledygook logic is that? Open up, but make sure everyone else is also equally sick as blacks.

        There is more than one way to skin a level playing field.

  24. the man is a hero

  25. Miami – you can have it. Just another reminder that I am glad I live on Florida’s Gulf coast.

  26. Miami-Dade police and code enforcement officers are empowered to issue fines of up to $100 to individuals who are out of compliance with the county’s New Normal guidelines

    At least they’re being honest about it, but it does seem ironic that they’ve let the mask slip on the issue of mask-wearing. People who are wondering when these mandates to prevent the spread of coronavirus are going to end and we can get back to normal can now relax – they’re never going to end, this is the new normal.

  27. DeSantis also issued a mandate that schools open. Broward county decided to defy the order under pressure from the unions.

    The governor brought the hammer down and today the school board finally met to approve the plan to open. It was a mess. Clearly they had no shot at opening Monday, having still not even decided that they would open, with only 1 working day left.

    So the Governor must have been watching on TV. He offered an olive branch. He let them open the 9th instead of the 5th. Broward took the deal.

  28. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis Banned Localities From Collecting Mask Fines. Local Officials Say They’ll Keep Issuing Fines Anyway.
    So who here is going to pay a fine that is banned?

  29. Ok let me get this straight: In Miami they have 39 police collecting under $20,000 per month in fines. If the average salary and benefits of one of these is say $48000 per year or $3000 per month then the city is losing 40 x 3000 = 120,000 to collect 20,000 costing the city $100,000 per month for this stupid program.

  30. It’s very much stupid that many municipalities will continue to collect fines and the reason is that they shut down so much business that they haven’t collected enough taxes to pay the bills.

  31. Miami-dade, probably THE most corrupt police force in the entire country… Two digit IQ, Municipal Terrorists in costumes. With such easy access to the ocean, it’s hard to believe the people allow this to continue unabated.

    1. “…probably THE most corrupt police…”
      That’s what every jurisdiction all across the USSA appears to be.
      It’s a pandemic of police brutality/extortion. The cure is disrespect for the monopoly of violence/moral exemption they enjoy. Heroes don’t act this way. Thugs do. If the thugs are an exception, why do the “heroes” stand by and watch? Some cop sociopaths have dozens of complaints over decades. Where is the self-policing? All we see is coverups and exoneration. But they “demand” respect? I demand accountability.

  32. Writing tickets would be replaced with searches to take any money, no matter how much, no receipt, if they thought they could get away with it. Cops will push and only stop until YOU push back. No governor’s edict is needed. It’s the public’s self-interest, rights, that are being violated. It’s the public that needs to take action with mass civil disobedience.

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