Coronavirus

Lockdowns Intended To Preserve Our Health Are Making Us Poorer and Angrier

Even as the economy recovers, pain from the COVID-19 lockdowns still lingers.

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The U.S. economy may be slowly pulling itself out of the doldrums inflicted by social distancing and government lockdown orders promoted as efforts to stem the spread of COVID-19, but many Americans continue to suffer.

Half of Americans who lost their job because of the pandemic are still out of work, and the resulting damage to finances falls hardest—as you might expect—on lower-income people who have little cushion against hard times. That's something to keep in mind as politicians contemplate renewed restrictions, especially given the potential for economic pain to worsen already-simmering social tensions.

"Overall, 25 percent of U.S. adults say they or someone in their household was laid off or lost their job because of the coronavirus outbreak, with 15 percent saying this happened to them personally," Pew Research reported last week. "Of those who say they personally lost a job, half say they are still unemployed, a third have returned to their old job and 15 percent are in a different job than before."

What makes the situation even worse is that the burden falls hardest on those who can least afford it. "Lower-income adults who were laid off due to the coronavirus are less likely to be working now than middle- and upper-income adults who lost their jobs (43 percent vs. 58 percent)," Pew adds.

Among those who have continued working or are back to work, many are making do with reduced hours and pay cuts. About a third of adults report they or their households have suffered such trimmed income opportunities. That means less money in-hand and greater difficulty in making ends meet.

"A quarter of U.S. adults say they have had trouble paying their bills since the coronavirus outbreak began," the Pew report notes. "Among adults with lower incomes, 46 percent say they have had trouble paying their bills, and about a third (32 percent) have had problems paying their rent or mortgage since February—significantly higher than the share of middle- and upper-income adults who have faced these struggles."

Fortunately, the economy shows signs of recovery, though not full health by any means. An economic index created by Moody's Analytics and CNN shows unemployment declining from its pandemic peak and both hiring and hours worked at small business on the rise. But overall economic activity is only at 81 percent of where it was when lockdowns began back in early March. While not everybody is affected to the same extent, we're living in a poorer country than we did just months ago.

And the effects are expected to linger.

"The ongoing public health crisis will continue to weigh on economic activity, employment, and inflation in the near term, and poses considerable risks to the economic outlook over the medium term," the Federal Reserve cautioned on September 16.

Likewise, the Congressional Budget Office expects the vast sums of money spent by the federal government in an attempt to keep people fed and housed while the economy was in a holding pattern "to raise borrowing costs, lower economic output, and reduce national income in the longer term."

Obviously, this is a big deal in terms of people's ability to pay for necessities, save for the future, and create prosperity for themselves and their children. But continuing joblessness and economic distress also have important implications for the stability of the society in which we live.

Recent months have been marked by protests, riots, and political violence in cities across the country. Yes, we were in for a rough ride, anyway. We entered this contentious election year with Congress and the president locked in an impeachment struggle, amidst high social tensions and a polarized population divided into mutually loathing political and cultural factions.

But, as I warned in March, drawing on historical examples and research by social scientists, unemployment and economic distress have proven time and again to fuel social unrest.

"Results from the empirical analysis indicate that economic growth and the unemployment rate are the two most important determinants of social unrest," noted a 2013 report (PDF) from the International Labour Organisation (ILO), a United Nations agency that maintains a Social Unrest Index in an attempt to predict civil disorder based, in part, on economic trends. "For example, a one standard deviation increase in unemployment raises social unrest by 0.39 standard deviations, while a one standard deviation increase in GDP growth reduces social unrest by 0.19 standard deviations."

As the pandemic lockdowns started to affect people's lives in March, David L. Katz, former director of Yale University's Yale-Griffin Prevention Research Center, wrote in The New York Times that he was "deeply concerned that the social, economic and public health consequences of this near total meltdown of normal life—schools and businesses closed, gatherings banned—will be long lasting and calamitous, possibly graver than the direct toll of the virus itself."

Six months later it appears that Katz's fears have been fulfilled. We've had months of social unrest with no end in sight. Millions of Americans remain un- or underemployed and, as Pew points out, "many Americans continue to face deep financial hardship" and are struggling to pay their bills. The economic damage inflicted by the lockdowns looks destined to extend into the foreseeable future.

And now politicians are contemplating or already imposing new restrictions as the pandemic continues and the numbers of cases rise in some places. Israel is under a renewed lockdown. Spain and the U.K. are sliding in the same direction piecemeal. Some U.S. jurisdictions are tightening the screws as public health professionals call for putting the whole country back in suspended animation.

Given what we know now after months of unpleasant experience, it should be obvious that restrictions intended to preserve our health are making us poorer and angrier. Further disrupting people's social connections and economic activity would be worse than pouring salt on open wounds. It would amount to throwing a lit match on a pile of oil-soaked rags.

NEXT: Don't Shame Pregnant Women for Drinking Coffee

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  1. IF IT ONLY SAVES ONE LIFE

    1. If it only saves one life from covid. All other lives don’t matter.

      Except black lives. So if it only saves one black life from covid.

      1. And Black lives only matter if they were killed by police, so the subset gets smaller.

        1. But if they’re killed by police, we’ll still count it as COVID.

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    2. What if it saves one life but only at the cost of someone else’s life?

      1. Some of you may die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make.

        1. Thank you, o glorious Lord Farquaad!

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        2. All of us will die. The hope is to not die prematurely.

        3. I’m sorry, but I just disagree with you. The way Donald Trump has handled the Covid-19 virus pandemic has unnecessarily cost over 200, 000 lives here in the United States as a whole. That’s a sacrifice that I’M not at all willing to make, and neither are tons of other people. You seem to not care how many people die or are permanently disabled by Covid-19. Moreover, it’s not just younger healthier people who’ve died from or are permanently incapacitated by Covid-19, either. The people who deliberately and knowingly flout the rules for mask wearing and social distancing, and against having large gatherings of people, especially indoors, are totally insensitive and don’t give a rat’s ass about anybody but themselves. Just like Donald Trump! It’s disgusting.

          1. …the U.S. statistics are better than most of the countries of Europe. Are Trump’s actions responsible for them as well? The long-term effects of Covid survival are actually not known, and likely exaggerated, so making policy based in that is ignorant. What is known is that the depression and stress from unprecedented lockdowns will cause real hardships and cost real lives, yet we act like that is not an issue. It still rains that the avg age of death from Covid19 is higher than the overall average age of death, and the most common symptom, is no symptom at all. The virus is NEVER going away. It is now endemic, we need to take care of everyone the best we can, but we need to get back to living.

          2. I am no Trump supporter, but he didn’t order nursing homes to accept coronavirus patients, several incompetent Democrats did. And the “over 200,000” figure includes people who died WITH coronavirus, not OF coronavirus, and there is little doubt that some of those positive tests were inaccurate.

          3. READ a better newspaper. Trump as NOT been making the stupid rules that have most of America locked down, scaraed to death, and impoverished. He carefully nd deliberatey did NOT overstep his authoiry, and left those decisioins to the governors and mayors to tormen t their own people.

            What he SHOULD have done was to dump Fauthchee and Birxie and get some REAL scientests int those positions, ones that would NOt stand to gain from vaccines lockdowns, mask sales, etc.

            If a tree fell over on your house and destryoed it, yu woud figure out a way to blame Trump. GROW UPPPPP!! EVERTHANG ain’t HIS fault.Go and find some ten year old lab studies, and manufacturer’s testing on their own masks. You will soon enough realise you’ve been had. When yuo do realise that please don’t get mad and g shoot yourself like some do. Or go shoot someone else.
            Then once you’ve prpven to ourself the masks are useless in preventing the spread of a virus, ny virus, then study the business about tie six feet is safe and five foot eleven and a quarter will make someone die. Now go and study what Soth Dakota, and Sweden, and Hungary did about locking things down. And their “numbers”.

            1. If a tree fell on my house, here’s how it would be Trump’s fault: He didn’t sign the Paris Accord which caused additional global warming that caused the trunk of the tree to prematurely rot causing it to blow over in what was undoubtedly a strong wind caused by climate change. You know this is how these nincompoops think, right?

              On a separate and more serious but related note: Doesn’t anyone find it strange (although, based on your comment, you probably do) that we’re not allowed to hear the opinions of equally qualified doctors and scientists who disagree with Fauci; Fauci who has been in an administrative position since 1968 and who I doubt has attended to a living patient for over half a century? In fact, alternate opinions by some very qualified doctors have been censored by social media.

          4. “…The way Donald Trump has handled the Covid-19 virus pandemic has unnecessarily cost over 200, 000 lives here in the United States as a whole…”

            You.
            Are.
            Full.
            Of.
            Shit.

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  2. Yeah nobody was saying that back in March. It was all duck and cover.

    Oh by the way it’s now official, the Clinton campaign concocted the entire russian collusion story. I expect criminal charges should be next right? Ha. Maybe an investigation into the campaign and Clinton foundation? Sure. No wonder they are so desperate for Biden so he can bury all that in his basement,

    1. Meanwhile last night Biden tried to gaslight us that no such left wing violence existed and he’s the law and order guy. Rube.

      1. And Biden’s only son, Beauhunter, left it all out there on the battlefield. Ultimate sacrifice and all that.

    2. A lot of people here were saying that back in April, that the lockdowns would have adverse health effects in addition to the obvious and preventable economic effects.

      1. And we’ve been proven right.

  3. I propose a $20 trillion stimulus package.

    1. How are we possibly supposed to defeat the Coronavirus on such a meager investment. We’ll need at least $30 trillion to get to a 0 carbon footprint, ensure the human right of basic 3-bedroom-2-bath-housing, and guaranteed income for those unwilling to work… ya know, to defeat the covid.

      1. What about SUVs for all?
        Doesn’t everyone deserve safe, comfortable transportation like government officials get?

        1. Only if those SUVs are all electric. Gasoline burning cars are doubleplusungood.

    2. I propose a $20 trillion and 1 stimulus package, Bob!

    3. Why not $200 trillion? Why not $500 trillion? There is no money, so what is the difference? Maybe you haven’t heard, the US not only broke, but deeply in debt. I propose we reopen all economies and just deal with the results.

  4. Upon first glance at the headline, I read it as Lockdowns Intended To Preserve Our Health Are Making Us Poorer and Uglier. I was thinking that shaming chicks with no makeup on for Zoom meetings is pretty cold.

    1. And the ones who have gotten chubby from binge TV and ice cream during the lockdown.

      1. a.k.a. “the COVID 15”

    2. The headline does say “Poorer and Angrier” though. I can get both of those, I am not sure I can get any uglier!

    3. just make certain your Daisey RedRyder BeeBee Gun is not visible anywhere within a hundred feet of you when you’r zooming on those calls…. SOMEONE wil think you re trying to assassinate the fat and or ugly and/or broke chick with no makeup.

      Ya can’t make up this sort of stuff….. it takes a nine year old kid to come up with that one.

  5. “Lockdowns Intended To Preserve Our Health”

    Assuming facts not in evidence.

    1. lockdowns intended to accustom people to meek compliance?
      or maybe intended to get them boiling so they become an angry protest army?

      1. lockdowns intended to destroy small businesses and bankrupt their Republican owners?

        1. Now you get it.
          Welcome to the revolution.

          They keep asking Trump about a peaceful transition; how come they never ask us?

      2. That and intended to enable BLM/Antifa terrorists to carry out the Chinese Cultural Revolution in every country that hasn’t already gone through it.

        Both COVID and BLM were planned by China. Both are acts of war, and COVID is a weapon of mass destruction. Nuke them.

  6. Biden will Build Back Better!

    Yes he can!

    1. we’ll all be driving Teslas and making a lot more than the paltry 15 buckets and hour minimum wage, even if we’re not working yet

      1. Not all of you will be driving Teslas.
        Some have to be assigned to the mines do dig the minerals to build the batteries. Others will be assigned to turn the turbines by hand when the wind falls below the level needed for generation. Still others will be harnessed to pull the trains that electricity cannot move.
        Oh, yes; your pay will not be money, which requires electricity to print, but rather your daily rations and water allowance.

        1. Non one needs more than that anymore and you must be a capitalist consumer pig

        2. I look forward to setting a good example and complain that our water allowance is too generous and demanding the government tax me in the form of reduced rations.

    2. This is the moment when rise of the virus began to slow.

  7. “We entered this contentious election year with Congress and the president locked in an impeachment struggle”
    There was an impeachment this year? Really? Why isn’t that front and center in this election saga? Wasn’t it over something someone did when trying to get info about what Biden’s kid did somewhere to enrich himself? It’s all such a fog

    1. I can’t even keep up with this year anymore. If it were a movie I would have walked out halfway through because it’s nonsensical bullshit.

  8. “Two weeks to flatten the curve”, they said.

  9. past tense … “have made”

  10. Lockdowns Intended To Preserve Our Health…*

    *Citation needed.

    I know that’s what our so called leaders claimed, but it’s also entirely possible that they did it for the same reason they do everything else: because FYTW.

  11. Why don’t those unemployed guys just work from home?

    1. Only those who used to work at Shoprite can do that.

  12. The restrictive decisions government makes are moral decisions, not health decisions.

    Whatever decision it makes will affect someone’s health. They just chose who is more important of protecting. A moral decision. They claim science and data, but are only looking at one set of data (covid) , but either don’t consider other data relating to people’s health (physical and psychological) or consider it inferior.

    When Joe Citizen virtue signals about wearing a mask and uses words like “science” and “experts” he is most likely ignoring other health issues or doesn’t care.

  13. Even without the lockdowns, half the population would rather stay home than wear a mask. So the only ones that aren’t too scared to go anywhere are too pissed to.

  14. “Half of Americans who lost their job because of the pandemic are still out of work, and the resulting damage to finances falls hardest—as you might expect—on lower-income people who have little cushion against hard times.”

    The untold story about the lockdowns is how higher-paid white collar professionals and journalists who could telework and videoconference emerged relatively unscathed – and spent time sipping bourbon in virtual cocktail parties and networking events – while working class blue-collar “clingers” were disproportionately furloughed, laid off or thrown out of work. When the latter complained and called for the economy to reopen, the former smugly accused them of wanting to “kill Grandma” out of “selfishly” wanting to “make money.”

    1. Ain’t that the fuckin’ truth…!?!?

    2. sipping bourbon

      Sipping bourbon? That’s for the poors and filthy republicans. Manhattans, Kentucky Mules, and Hot Toddy’s are the way proper, urbane, white-collar professionals and journalists drink bourbon.

    3. How *leftist* “higher-paid white collar professionals…who could telework and video conference emerged relatively unscathed”

      Because I’m a higher-paid white-collar professional who was teleworking and videoconferencing even before COVID and carried right on during COVID, and I can assure you I was *not* smugly accusing anyone of wanting to “kill Grandma” out of “selfishly” wanting to “make money.” The whole thing seemed like a leftist moral panic the entire time, and when I dared to point out absurdities to my more-liberal friends, *I* was accused of wanting to murder Grandma.

      1. Join the club. No one directly accused me of wanting to kill Grandma, but when I pointed out that me “sheltering in place” in single family home on an acre and one-half of property was vastly different than sheltering In a two-room apartment in the city, I was given a lecture about how the lockdowns were necessary because other “people can’t be trusted to wear masks and behave safely.”

    4. It’s not unreported in the lamesteam media. Of course we’re all waiting for the next brilliant policy contribution from the Trumptards. Since brown people work shittier jobs they get covid more. How long till Trump or one of his tards articulates that black genocide is, if anything, a silver lining of all this?

      1. Behold, king of the “you just wanna kill grandma” set.

  15. The lockdowns instilled fear in America for control, it’s so obvious! Open the country NOW!!!

  16. And racist, besides:

    “Facing deep racial disparities, California unveils equity road map counties must follow to reopen”
    […]
    “California public health officials Wednesday evening revealed the final metric that counties must meet before they can further reopen their economies. It’s a complicated marker meant to ensure that communities of color no longer bear the brunt of the coronavirus pandemic.
    The new “health equity” measurement had been promised by state officials for several weeks, since California’s new color-coded tier system for economic and social reopening was announced.
    It was not immediately clear how the metric would affect Bay Area counties’ ability to progress toward reopening, though it appears that many regions will struggle to bridge large health disparities that mostly impact Latino, Black and Pacific Islander communities….”
    https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/California-unveils-coronavirus-equity-roadmap-for-15610779.php?cmpid=gsa-sfgate-result

    1. California is the scariest place right now. I’m a fourth generation Californian who’s always considered it my home and never contemplated leaving, but Newsom is truly making me hate my life and question my sanity for even thinking of staying in a place run by lunatics.

      1. This is happening only now? California has been run by lunatics for many years.

        1. Previously I felt like the politics didn’t completely affect my everyday life (especially being in Orange County). But now every minute of my life is affected horribly.

          And you can’t beat the beaches (unless they’re surrounded by chainlink fence ‘for our own good’).

      2. I was born here and refuse to be run off. Until the influx of prog asshole midwesterners with their fucking hayseed accents and feelings, California was great.

        We should have fenced off Nevada and Arizona as buffers

  17. The lock down is a farce and conspiracy that is going to put biden in the white house. There was no way trump was going to lose this election without the china flu and dem, academia and media driven lock down.

  18. What a poor attempt at a valid discussion about the economy without mentioning the cause…a pandemic that’s already killed over 200K Americans and 1M worldwide. Is that negligible? To be ignored? What lockdown are you speaking about? What Florida and Texas did months ago when they ignored it like you are? Oh that’s right, then they did lock down some because their Republican governors finally admitted they were heading toward a disaster. So tell me Tucille, how many dead Americans would there be if you had your blind way?

    But heck, you’ll get your test case in Florida. That idiot says open up, masks are a choice, and no going back. Your guy! Let’s see how it how that works out.

    1. Learn to trade-off.

    2. “how many dead Americans would there be?”

      Probably about the same number. Once the virus was in the wild, it’s only a matter of time before the most vulnerable people are exposed, unless they moved into a sterile bubble. We never reached a point where hospitals had to turn people away, where people died for lack of ventilators, so modern medicine was able to do it’s damnedest to save folks on the edge.

      Meanwhile age group survival rates after contracting COVID (CDC numbers)

      0 to 19 99.997%
      20 to 49 99.98%
      50 to 69 99.5%
      70+ 94.6%

      and that is mostly without even any help from modern medicine.

      Note that normally a 70-year-old has a 2.28% chance of dying from all causes; an 80-year-old has a 5.82% chance of dying from all causes.

      It would be FAR easier and less impactful on the economy if we just told people over 70 years of age and people interacting with them to use all possible precautions. Everyone else, carry on normally, and feel free to continue to social distance and wear a mask if you think it helps you.

      1. Same number? That’s says it all.

        1. Well, maybe several thousand fewer if Andrew Cuomo hadn’t sent thousands of nursing home patients to their deaths by inflicting known COVID-positive people on the most vulnerable part of the population of NYS.

          1. NY State’s Governor Andrew Cuomo made a really stupid-assed mistake by sending thousands of nursing home patients to their deaths by inflicting known Covid-19 patients on the most vulnerable population—that’s very true. However, a lot of other state governors fucked up in a lot of ways, as well–by not implementing mandatory rules for mask wearing and social distancing, and self-isolating, and against having large gatherings of people, especially indoors.

            There should’ve been a national mandatory 2-3 month lockdown and self-isolation ruling, rather than leaving it up to state governors to do what they saw fit to do. We would’ve been pretty much back to normal and had the Covid-19 pandemic much more under control by now.

            1. “national mandatory 2-3 month lockdown”

              I wonder how many of those people demanding longer lockdowns would feel if things were *really* locked down. Being able to run to the grocery store or Wal-Mart or picking up your favorite take-out…those are all ways and places where you can infect other or be infected even if you take precautions like masks and social distancing.

              If you want lockdowns, let’s get serious; none of this half-assed crap.

              I mean *really locked down*: no grocery stores, no Wal-Mart, no fast-food drive throughs, no pizza delivery, no Uber-Eats or Door-Dash or whatever. No Amazon or Target online. No home delivery. No jogging, visiting a park, etc. You’ll stay in your house or else–-we’ll allow you to wander around in your own backyard (backyard only, never the front yard), if you have one. For food, what you’ll get is a government truck will deliver a box of food for one person to eat for a week, and drop off the boxes at your front doorstep based on the number of people in your household (hope you didn’t lie on the census form!). An armed escort will accompany the delivery person to ensure that no one opens their doors while the delivery person is within 20 feet of the door. The delivery personnel will be dressed in full MOPP gear.

              The ONLY “essential” personnel will be those involved with treating COVID and for delivering the food. So there’s no reason for anyone one else to ever venture outside of their house and anyone on the streets who is not in uniform obviously has no business being there, and will be subject to immediate detention in physical quarantine facilities.

              Let them imagine a real lockdown for a few minutes then ask the question again. Bet the answer is different.

            2. “…There should’ve been a national mandatory 2-3 month lockdown and self-isolation ruling..”

              You.
              Are.
              Full.
              Of.
              Shit.

          2. Glad you brought up NY. I live there. Cuomo in the first couple months made mistakes, like everyone else in this country including the federal government and hospital administrators. After all, we all ignored Italy.

            But under his leadership, NY has done the best since. And again I know this as I have a family member who works in a hospital. It has 150 beds. In March 140 were taken by Covid patients. Today? 1.

            Our positive rates are the lowest, nearly every hospital only has a few patients, and much of the states economy is open, including restaurants. This weekend in Brooklyn every street was packed with diners for restaurants who were serving outside. This week inside dining.

            Here’s what’s absolutely unforgivable…states that didn’t learn about what worked in NY to achieve current numbers. Like Florida, Texas, and Georgia.

            1. I just spent several months in upstate NY, near Fort Drum. I can testify that locals there do not think much of “Emperor ‘chicken wings aren’t real food’ Andy”.

            2. If it’s OK to open restaurants for indoor with limitations in the state, is the virus somehow different in NYC? Where’s the since in that? People keep trying to tell me that it’s about keeping people safe, but all I see is one power-grab after another making up arbitrary and capricious rules as they go along. It was just a few weeks ago that Emperor Andy (as the local radio station calls him) said “Ok, restaurants can open with limited seating, but not bars. Restaurants with bars in them cannot serve patrons at the bar, they must be seated at a table and order food.” As if the virus says “Oh, I was going to infect hat guy, but he’s sitting at a table eating food and not sitting on a barstool drinking a beer.” But when bars started serving free food like chips and dip or fruit plates to patrons and seating them at tables, Andy said “No, no, no, they’ve got to be eating *real* food.” A few days later “Chicken wings are not real food.” Where’s the science in any of that?

              Now he says he needs 4000 (four thousand!) government employees to enforce social distancing rules before NYC is allowed to re-open. Where will those jobs go when COVID is solved? Nowhere, there will be 4000 new government employees in NYC in perpetuity. And they will be COPS? Has Gov. Cuomo not been paying attention to “defund the police”? Wait until the first white social distancing enforcer kills a black man for refusing to social distance. Wait for social distancing enforcers to start intentionally standing too close to patrons then writing them a $1000 ticket–need the revenue you know. (this has basically already been happening in Miami, where enforcers wait outside say a 7-11 and issue ticket to people who take their masks off after they leave the store but before they get in their cars.

              It might cost the state $2B if they lose the lawsuit that NYC restaurants have filed.

      2. The moment Joe Biden is sworn in all of a sudden all the covid deaths will be his fault. Deny it.

        1. Goose and gander and all that, right?

      3. Only the same number from COVID. The deaths from the COVID response itself will be monstrous. One county in California reported 13 times the usual number of suicide deaths during the lockdown. How many more were caused by people delaying or not being able to receive medical care because the doctor had closed up shop? How many more heart attacks, strokes, and other treatable conditions ended up fatal because people hesitated or outright refused to dial 911, thinking that the ER was packed to the brim with the equivalent of Ebola victims (when those ERs were generally completely empty)?

        It’s right on when you say that the lockdowns and all of that stuff saved no lives. That’s why the name of the game was “flatten the curve,” not “reduce the area under the curve.” If saving lives was a possibility once the virus becomes extant, that would have been the contingency plan of the epidemiologists.

        All the various anti-COVID measures have done, if anything, is to extend the pandemic and make the natural progression of that pandemic take longer. Some lives will be lost later than they would have been, but none will be saved.

        If you “quarantine” everybody, you effectively quarantine none, since the amount you’ve bent down the death curve exactly matches the amount you’ve bent down the curve representing the acquisition of herd immunity. If we had taken an advisory approach, letting those people at greater risk know what they can do to protect themselves, while not interfering in the lives of everyone else, those people best suited to taking the hit could go and do so, while those at risk could do the whole “stay at home” thing while everyone else builds the herd immunity that will be the ONLY thing that will make it safe for the vulnerable to come out again.

    3. Ok so WTF is the lockdown doing? Zero evidence that lockdowns work and plenty of evidence of economic harm. Sweden vs Peru vs NY State vs South Dakota.

      So you advocate hiding from the virus? Its completely unsustainable and also doesn’t work. Herd immunity is the only solution for a virus and it always has been.

      1. Oh, come on now! Herd immunity can only come in the form of a vaccine, which will take a long, long time to develop. Don’t tell me that more people getting infected and possibly dying and/or becoming permanently disabled as a result is herd immunity, because it’s not.

        1. /facepalm
          Did you really just say that?

          Um, no, herd immunity doesn’t only come from vaccines. How can you even be part of the debate if you don’t even understand the basics? This is why people are so easily manipulated into believing that lockdowns and masks work.

          Vaccines are meant to trick the body into thinking it has the disease, triggering the immune response against that pathogen, the same exact effect that having the disease provides. Getting the disease also does a good job of convincing the body it has the disease, since, you know, it actually does.

          All of those people who had the virus and didn’t know it now have effectively been vaccinated, and so have the vast number who had the disease and only mild symptoms. Of course, so have the small minority who had severe symptoms too. They’ve all effectively been vaccinated, and are now removed from the pool of potential victims, which, over time, will keep reducing the virus’ ability to keep spreading.

          Those who didn’t have the disease yet are still on COVID’s to-do list, and one of two things will happen: They will get the disease eventually, or we will reach herd immunity before that happens.

          We (and by ‘we’, I mean the fauna of Earth, not just humans, as this effect existed long before humans did) didn’t evolve herd immunity because thousands of years down the road, someone would invent vaccines and make it all worthwhile.

          1. “/facepalm
            Did you really just say that?..”

            Yes.
            Among the lefty ignoramuses who post here, mapol is near the bottom of the pile.

        2. I don’t think you understand how vaccines work.

  19. Quebec now is in partial lockdown. When pressed in the National Assembly what evidence did Premier Legault have to enact such measures, he admitted to not having any. Health Quebec said they made no such recommendations, yet this incompetent liar went ahead a made a call that will negatively impact the already fragile social fabric again.

    Think of that for a second. This is how deep this madness runs.

    It’s a vortex of hysteria they can’t extricate themselves from.

    We have gutless fake leaders who have off-loaded their responsibilities to public health officials who are running us around.

    If we don’t allow for other voices into the discussion, I’m actually starting to get very worried.

  20. “But getting positive test rates to align across communities could prove challenging for many counties. In Alameda County, for instance, parts of East Oakland and Fruitvale have positive test rates between 13% and 15.6% — three times higher than the county’s overall positive test rate of 4.5%, according to county testing data.”

    If someone just got rid of all the people living in East Oakland and Fruitvale, then Alameda County could reopen?

  21. There is no excuse for anyone in the world, except those over 80 or with other serious conditions, to be subjected to restrictions now.

    It’s just the flu. Authorities know this. When they claim safety need, they are LYING.

    It’s time to sue. Where closures prevent this, it’s time to use force.

    1. Trump is on tape saying literally the opposite and that he’s lying to you about it. Jesus Christ at least be gullible with facts.

      1. He was lying when he said he lied. You know, just like Fauci lied when he said he lied about masks not working, and Fauci’s a revered figure.

  22. So Tucille, did you see this? Cornell did a study on sources for the most misinformation regarding the pandemic, conspiracy theories. Here is there conclusion:

    “It is apparent from the data that mentions of President Trump within the context of COVID-19 misinformation comprise by far the largest single component of the infodemic. Trump mentions comprised 37.9% of the overall infodemic, well ahead of “miracle cures”, which comprised 26.4%. However, a substantial proportion — possibly even the majority — of the “miracle cures” topic was also driven by the president’s comments, so a substantial overlap can be expected between these topics. We conclude therefore that the President of the United States was likely the largest driver of the COVID-19 misinformation “infodemic”.

    Thought you might like to know since you two think similarly.

    https://allianceforscience.cornell.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Evanega-et-al-Coronavirus-misinformation-submitted_07_23_20.pdf

    1. …the “infodemic”
      …topic was “driven by the president’s comments”
      Jackass, you continue to build on your rep.

  23. “”Overall, 25 percent of U.S. adults say they or someone in their household was laid off or lost their job because of the coronavirus outbreak, with 15 percent saying this happened to them personally,”

    At least one order of magnitude higher than people who knew someone who actually got sick from the WuFlu or died from it.

  24. so are those floods that are wiping out suburbs everywhere that idiot Joe talked about the other night

  25. The executive orders locking us down are unconstitutional, and in any event arbitrary and capricious. But they make one thing clear: The political class cares not whether we live or die; only that, while we live, we submit and pay taxes.

    1. In “The Giver” the elder says “When people have the freedom to choose, they choose wrong. Every single time.” It is true that when people have freedom, they often make wrong choices. But so do the people who run things. Dozens of cases in this whole thing where the leadership made wrong decisions. Why must we take their ever more ridiculous proclamations as law? Chances are pretty good that they’re ordering people to exactly the wrong thing.

      A government that can force you to wear a mask can force women to wear a burqua. Or force Jews to wear a yellow star. I note with some sense of irony that most states have anti-mask laws for practical reasons (bank robbers wear masks) and historic reasons (many anti-mask laws started as an anti-KKK effort), but now people are being forced to wear masks.

      People will argue that this police state is temporary and justified because of the allegedly unique threat to life posed by COVID. But let us at least agree that we are closer to a police state than ever in American history. The federal, state, county and city governments are now restricting almost every freedom, including those protected explicitly in the Constitition. Police departments throughout America have agreed to enforce these laws and edicts with what can only be described as frightening alacrity. Police are gleefully responding to their new powers and giving summonses to, or even arresting, people for playing baseball with their children on a beach, jogging alone without a mask, or worshipping on Easter while sitting isolated in their cars in a church parking lot. Women are being tased for daring to watch a t-ball game without a mask. Police in Miami are running “mask traps” to generate revenue via fines for people who take off their mask between the store and their car in the praking lot. Six NYC cops gang up to take down a woman for wearing her mask incorrectly. And people are snitching like peasants in East Germany running to STASI to turn in their neighbors. And the media is little more than Pravda, carrying out their mission of indoctrination that these efforts are for everyone’s own good, and that anyone who dares to question them must be dealt with.

      “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”

      ― C. S. Lewis

      1. Spot on!

  26. I think some well meaning politicians and public health experts believe that being angry, depressed, or overly-anxious is far better than being dead, in a hospital on a ventilator, or at home sick in bed.

    But, a friend of mine is livid that the economy is as open as it is. She hasn’t been in a store since March. She works in a middle school and is angry at the school board and superintendent for opening schools this fall, parents who want their kids back in school, and the Governor for giving districts the option of opening.

    She can’t understand people who would take the risk of venturing outside instead of being in lockdown. Now, she is a runner, be she runs before dawn, to avoid contact.

    She even has nightmares about contracting Covid and being in a hospital on a ventilator.

    It seems to me that isolation has truly affected her mental state.

  27. Poorer and angrier…I can’t imagine why. This is nonsense being locked down with all these silly rules. Unless you are at some severe risk, you should welcome contact to build immunity. Far more are going to perish from this insane Marxism than from the fake pandemic.

  28. The leftist ruling class is loyal to a concept of egalitarianism, not to a nation or functioning society that can sustain a population of 380 million people without descending into chaos and despair.

    So they ignore every scientific principle to excuse massive anti racism rallies in a pandemic (in a nation where hate crime literally claim lives in the single digits in most year) and mock people who want to reopen their businesses as “people who want to get hair cuts”.

    Right now the loons who run states like CA are under NO pressure to reopen the economy. They’re sitting on their asses thinking “we ain’t gonna let counties fully reopen as long as infection rate among minorities remain high”. Even if the foundation of the economy continues to crumble, LITERALLY all they can think about is their blissful utopic vision of society, where every single race is equally uplifted, represented, and wealthy.

    And not for one second does the media demand these mayors and governors reveal future plans, as schools and businesses are on track to remain either closed or operate at half capacity for another 6 months or more. But they sure do want to hear Trump denounce white supremacy.

  29. A few weeks ago local radio here said (paraphrasing) “2 Watertown students have tested positive for COVID…the students had not yet attended any in-person classes and have not been on school grounds. The school buildings will be disinfected and classmates will be tested.”

  30. One of the things that has annoyed me the most about the COVID lockdowns has been the utter unreasonableness of some of the rules. Skipping over the whole mask deal, one gets the impression that the different mayors and governors across the country are in some sort of contest to see who can come up with the most petty, stupid thing, and get the public to accept it as some sort of valid COVID safety measure. These COVID rules don’t have to be logical, but we must obey or be forced to obey. There’s no room for local decision-making or thoughtful disagreement. It’s all about power. The government, under the auspices of addressing an admittedly serious health crisis, can arbitrarily criminalize virtually everything—from operating your business, to visiting your relatives across town.

    A lot of Democrats immediately jumped on the chance to close down guns stores and stop processing paperwork required to purchase a gun or obtain a carry permit. That was pretty much item #1 on their lists. A lot of Democrats also whipped out orders that gave themselves close to unlimited power, so long as they said “COVID” somewhere in their justifications. One mayor even claimed her rules somehow magically extended 2 miles OUTSIDE the city limits (Champaign, Ill)

    I’ve seen a photo of a park where the bathrooms were closed for COVID reasons, but the city brought in port-a-potties. In another city, they allowed the city parks to remain open, but prohibit people from using the parking lots at the parks. In some places you can walk in a park, but are prohibited from sitting on the park benches. In places, you may be in the park, but you may not do things like toss a ball or frisbee with your children

    In Encinitas, California, police fined people $1,000 just for sitting in cars to watch the sunset at the beach.For sitting in their own cars!

    At Easter, multiple locations fined people for attending church, even for church services held in the parking lot where the congregation stayed each in their own cars int eh parking lot.

    Local radio has reported that the local public library will be reopening. Personally, I have to wonder why the library was ever closed for COVID.. How many people are in the library at one time that they cannot practice social distancing? Anyway, having been closed at all is one thing, but apparently upon reopening, only the 1st floor of the library will be open; the 2nd floor will remain closed. Why?

    Another local form of ridiculousness is that bars are closed. But restaurants with bars in them had previously been open, and people could use the bar there. But now, you may not use the bar. However, if you are seated at a table AND order food, then the bar can serve you. So, apparently sitting at a table and having food with my alcohol somehow makes me safer from COVID than sitting at the bar or just drinking at a table without ordering food is going to kill us all? I’m told that the bar at a local golf course is simply providing a plate with a piece of cheese and a grape or two on-the-house to all patrons so as to comply with the food requirement for the golfers to “be safe from COVID” while they have their normal post-round drinks. The Governor kiboshed that, saying you need to order real food. Then doubled down later by complaining that chicken wings were not real food. WTF? How does the virus know not to infect me because I’ve ordered surf&turf with my beer instead of a dozen wings?

    The local mall was not allowed to open until it had done an expensive A/C upgrade to have some sort of HEPA filters in place and the food court is not allowed to reopen. Meanwhile 1/4 mile farther down the road the WalMart never closed, never revamped its A/C, and the McDonald’s embedded in the front of the WalMart never closed.

    You may remember when LA beaches were allowed to reopen, and running, biking, swimming and surfing were allowed, but just sitting on the beach was forbidden.

    And Michigan, where you could go into Wal Mart to buy stuff, so long as it wasn’t paint, bug spray, or seeds for your garden..How the hell does forbidding people from buying seeds save anyone from COVID? Also in Michigan, you could use your boat on the state’s waterways, but not the motor on your boat; 6 people might have driven in the same car together towing the boat, but only 1 could actually get in the boat because you can’t social distance on a boat (there were no rules made about number of people allowed in a car though, you see).

    1. mpercy, I find that I don’t even have to write my own comments because you’ve summarized most of my thoughts on the matter. I will add that I find the insane reaction by governments, and such a large swath of the population the world over, to be a frightening foretaste of a dystopian future. The rampant display of irrational hysteria, illogical conclusions, and disproportionate reactions sets a precedent for how future crises will be handled, taking us ever more down the rabbit hole.

    2. “One of the things that has annoyed me the most about the COVID lockdowns has been the utter unreasonableness of some of the rules. Skipping over the whole mask deal, one gets the impression that the different mayors and governors across the country are in some sort of contest to see who can come up with the most petty, stupid thing, and get the public to accept it as some sort of valid COVID safety measure….”

      We have some financial interest in the restaurant biz in SF and watching the health and building inspectors make up ad-hoc rules is a real education on how palm-greasing might well come about.
      Also, many restaurants which have no space for outdoor seating have been granted X parking spaces off the curb which they may enclose as they desire. I’m no fan of zoning and building codes in general, but a lot of them are bereft of the least glance from a building engineer; the first wind storm of the season is going to have some parts of them through the windows of a neighbor.

  31. Health? Meh.

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