Police

The Senseless Destruction of Property in Kenosha, Minneapolis, and Elsewhere Is Not Advancing Justice

Demand justice for those hurt and killed by police. Stop creating more victims.

|

The shooting of Jacob Blake, a black man, by a white police officer in Kenosha, Wisconsin, on Sunday was excessive, unnecessary use of deadly force.

Video of the incident is graphic and infuriating. After responding to what the police described as a "domestic incident," one of the cops grabs Blake's shirt from behind and proceeds to fire into him seven times at point-blank range. Blake somehow managed to survive the attempted murder, but his father has told media outlets that Blake has been paralyzed from the waist down. At least two of the cops involved in the incident—including the officer who emptied his clip into the back of an unarmed and nonviolent suspect—have been placed on leave.

The officers involved should lose their jobs. The cop who pulled the trigger—then pulled it again, and again, and again—should be charged with the same offenses that any other civilian who fired a weapon that many times into someone else's back would face, and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. That is what justice demands.

But for many who see the video of Blake's shooting, that kind of justice is insufficient. The public outrage has evolved past seeking individual remedies for these not-so-isolated incidents. The use of unnecessary and life-altering force against Jacob Blake reminds us of the equally unnecessary and violent deaths of Eric Garner, George Floyd, Philando Castile, Breonna Taylor, and many others. Discrete justice does not address the systemic problems that plague policing in America. And thanks to qualified immunity—the court-created legal doctrine that often shields police officers from accountability when they hurt, maim, or kill—even discrete justice is often denied.

We should all be angry that this keeps happening, and that anger should be directed toward the police officers who perpetrate these crimes, toward the police departments that produce and protect bad cops, and toward the justice system that fails to hold murderers accountable because they were wearing a badge when they pulled the trigger.

That anger should not, must not be directed toward other innocent parties. Unfortunately, that keeps happening too.

That's Scott Carpenter, one of the owners of what was B&L Office Furniture in downtown Kenosha. Carpenter's business was torched on Monday night by protesters angered by the Blake shooting. And his property wasn't alone. Rioters set fire to stores, cars, garbage trucks, and more in a wanton display of destruction and violence that serves no purpose.

The destruction of private property is, of course, counterproductive to the goals of criminal justice reformers who want to see justice for Blake's would-be murderer and systemic changes to prevent future such police violence. These riots take attention away from where it should be—on the police officers who tried to kill a seemingly innocent man on Sunday—and provide an opportunity for politicians and police apologists to call for even more aggressive state action.

But these incidents are also appalling and wrong on their own. If the root of the injustice in Kenosha, Wisconsin, was the use of violence against an innocent person, more violence perpetrated against more innocent people will increase the sum total of misery and unnecessary suffering.

It was the same in Minneapolis, where protesters rightfully angered over Floyd's unjustified killing at the hands of a white police officer torched a police station and then moved on to burning liquor stores, restaurants, book stores, and more. The destruction is senseless in every way.

"The straight line between Floyd's death and the burning of the Third Precinct is easily discerned: The building, a menacing freestanding structure on East Lake Street, is now ringed in temporary fencing; boulder-like concrete blocks wall up its former entrance and metal screens cover its windows," writes Armin Rosen, a former Reason intern, in a deeply reported feature published this week at Tablet. "The potential social justice value of the destruction of the Mama Safia Somali café across the street is hard to tease out."

The destruction of Scott Carpenter's furniture store is similarly difficult to comprehend. The same is true for every business, large and small, that's been damaged or destroyed during a summer of unrest in cities across the country.

Despite efforts to redefine the term, violence against property is still violence. It is not justice—nor is it an adequate substitute for it or a path toward it. Burning private property won't bring George Floyd back to life or save Jacob Blake from the hell he is now enduring. Looting won't hold their murderers and attempted murderers to account.

Demand justice for those hurt and killed by police. Stop creating more victims.

NEXT: The Onerous Burdens of Sex Offender Registration Are Not Punishment, the 10th Circuit Rules. They Just Feel That Way.

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. Rioting in the streets? Since when? Why hasn’t anybody told me about this?

    1. “The shooting of Jacob Blake, a black man, by a white police officer in Kenosha, Wisconsin, on Sunday was excessive, unnecessary use of deadly force.”

      How exactly does Eric know this? He must have some really specially ESP since little is really known and this thing is still being investigated.

      1. Generally, when the police think they have good cause, they hold press conferences immediately and spout all sorts of nonsense. Every case I have seen of the police shutting up and pleading for calm has ultimately shown how wrong the police were.

        1. They didn’t clam up. They released a statement asking for evidence to come forward and the public to be patient, like the new videos that got posted by Daily Mail that added more to the story.

          1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new… after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

            Here’s what I do……….> Click here

          2. To put it in perspective, on average 50 to 60 policemen die from a violent act while on active duty each year. Others die from heart attacks or car accidents. On average, the police kills over 1100 people each year. More farmers die in farm accidents than police die on duty. Bringing food to your table is a more dangerous job than protecting you. You can survive without police protection, you can’t survive without food, you will starve to death.
            The overblown danger of being a policeman is driven by contractors who make huge profits training police forces, militarizing them. Some of these are Israeli security contractors. They teach our police force to treat US citizen like they treat Palestinians, treating them like animals rather than human beings. One wise old man told me, if you treat people like animals, you will have animals to contend with. The municipality that approves this type of training and hires deranged PTSD inflicted trigger happy veterans is just as much to blame. The police forces are conditioned to think they are confronting a brutal enemy rather than ordinary human beings when in reality, most of their time is spent handing out traffic tickets and even that simple event is way over dramatized by the police where some innocent people end up getting killed by the police over a minor traffic infraction.

        2. Which is why they held the Floyd bodycam footage, right?
          (For the record, I don’t think it exonerates Chauvin there, but it does provide context that tweaks the narrative)

          No word on whether or not Blake had a gun in his car. The way every elected official rushed to vilify the cop here, I’m guessing the lack of confirmation that Blake was indeed unarmed indicates he probably did have a gun in his car…

          1. “I’m guessing the lack of confirmation that Blake was indeed unarmed indicates he probably did have a gun in his car…”

            I”m guessing the opposite. If the police had recovered a weapon from the car they would have made sure it was all over the news.

            1. It took police 6 months to release Floyd body cam footage even though it helped demonstrate their case.

              1. No, it didn’t.

                1. Two months then. Is that better?

                  1. The video didn’t help the police all that much.

                    1. It actually did; It showed Floyd did resist arrest and EVERY one of these protests seems to follow the exact same RESISTING ARREST scenario. Street fights with law enforcement isn’t a justice system.

                    2. I make up to $90 an hour on-line from my home. My story is that I give up operating at walmart to paintings on-line and with a bit strive I with out problem supply in spherical $40h to $86h…MIc someone turned into top to me by way of manner of sharing this hyperlink with me, so now i’m hoping i ought to help a person else accessible through sharing this hyperlink…,,,,,,,,,► Click here

              2. Takes a lot of time to find a shop that is willing to photoshop the footage. The Zapruter film of Kennedy’s assassination, which showed shots coming from more than one sniper, when sent to Life magazine, it was hijacked by government agents and retouched frame by frame overnight at the Eastman Kodak secret labs in the high security Hawkeye plant to match the government’s one sniper theory and sent on to Life Magazine which did not release the image of the actual frame of Kennedy being shot. Life eventually resold the copy to the Zapruter family for $1. The government paid Zapruter $16 million for the original copy. To defray the tax on this giant windfall Zapruter donated another copy to a museum, claiming the donation to be worth millions.

        3. And anyone who actually gives a shit about preventing people from getting shot by cops, as opposed to people who just love to stroke their juvenile ACAB boners, would ALSO be talking about how a potential “victim” should behave so as to lessen the chances of getting shot by cops.

          Is there any room for personal responsibility in libertarianism?
          Or is it all just shallow, immature “fuck the police” maturation?

          Forget what “should” be expected of someone dealing with cops, of how they “should” be treated – can we talk about the wisdom of compliance vs non-compliance?
          It’s 2020, not 1960. Whatever color you may be, your chances of getting shot are drastically reduced by controlling your behavior

          1. *masturbation, not maturation

          2. How about personal responsibility for bigots?

            Perhaps better people should shun them from the benefits of decent society? Criminalize some bigoted behavior? Make them unemployable?

            Maybe it is time for enhanced accountability for society’s low-quality members.

            1. You sure want a lot of government intervention for a libertarian.

              1. I gave up tariffs, statist womb management, abusive policing, the death penalty, government gay-bashing, state funding of religion, and other authoritarian measures — societal accountability for bigots is my one remaining vice, and a temporary one, needed just until we scrub the remaining bigots from our midst.

                1. I can think of a good way for you to get rid of a particular annoying bigot.

          3. If Blake had raised his hands up and stood still, he never would have been shot. He made choices. We all make choices. And we suffer the consequences of our choices. I’m not saying seven shots in the back is fair, but you have to know you’re engaging in very very risky behavior when you ignore a cop who has his weapon drawn and decide to try to dig for stuff in your car.

            1. Blake was probably on fentynal like G.Floyd. That’s just a guess, but we do know that Blake was infected with the ‘hate the pigs – resist’ program that leaders of the black nation promote. We know because the cover of his facebook page was a photoshopped pic of two cops with the head of a pig and a demon.

          4. “Whatever color you may be, your chances of getting shot are drastically reduced by controlling your behavior”

            Reduced, but not eliminated. There are plenty of cases out there of people who did everything as right as possible and still got shot.

            1. Define “plenty”

              And are you advising everyone resist any and all arrests? Maintain a consistently aggressive attitude in all interactions with police?

              That might get your ACAB hate all excited, but it’s objectively bad advice. If you actually cared about people surviving police interactions, you might suggest they have some agency there and can drastically reduce their chances of coming to harm by being more rather than less compliant.
              But feel free to threaten any cop you may encounter. Let us know how it works out.

              1. Obviously there’s still problems even if you comply, if you’re on your knees begging for your life like Daniel Shaver. And there’s instances where police won’t even give you time to comply, like Tamir Rice (while also probably shouting contradictory orders).

                This guy is not either of these. He had ample opportunities to avoid being shot. He probably still didn’t deserve to be shot-I haven’t seen anyone really give the full story on this-but a bit of self preservation can go a long way.

                1. Yep.

                  Speaking of:
                  http://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1298501182382473216?s=19

                  A few rioters got shot up tonight. One dead it seems.
                  The linked video is clearly a case of self defense, at least initially.
                  The first shooting – same guy as above, was being chased from this incident – I haven’t seen good video of, but reports range from: a) (dead) rioter was charging at the gunman, b) (dead) was breaking into cars looting and gunman was guarding car dealership, to c) (dead) peaceful protester was just peacefully protesting and gunman shot him unprovoked.

                  One thing we know for sure: these larpers really have the “medic” call down.
                  Their response to that call is very much a work in progress

                  1. Incidentally, everyone involved is/was white

                    If you care about that kind of thing, or accuracy

                    1. If you’re talking about the looters, rioters and fire-setters, I really don’t give a shit who they are–they need to be brought to justice, arrested, tried for, charged with, and imprisonment for the wanton destruction of property, people’s livelihoods, and other injuries. That book “In Defense of Looting” (the author of which escapes me at the moment.), sounds like an absolutely and totally stupid book that makes looting okay. I’m sure as hell not going to read that one.

                  2. Ok, found video of the first shooting

                    http://twitter.com/DickNickels/status/1298504454032031744?s=19

                    Looks pretty damn justified

                    1. The kid is being charged with murder but its clear self defense

              2. “And are you advising everyone resist any and all arrests? Maintain a consistently aggressive attitude in all interactions with police?”

                Absolutely not. But telling people that compliance will guarantee their safety is a lie.

          5. Jacob Blake’s actions were bizarre. Unless of course years of media and community have hammered into someone that police are on a killing spree of even compliant young black men that some are sure their best hope is to fight back or make a desperate attempt to escape.
            BTW, as long as people are speculating on what “actually happened” in the split second shooting, I would like to question if the fact that three kids were in the car might actually not be an aggravating issue against the cop (he shot him despite being in front of or in close proximity to children). Might it appear that his getting into a car with three kids/hostages might have greatly escalated the danger posed by him?

      2. The Kenosha PD immediately turned the investigation over the the Sheriff’s Department, who then turned it over the the Wisconsin DCI, who stated they will not be releasing any statements, and have instructed both other departments not to issue statements, until after the investigation report is ready. This transfer of investigation happened within the first hours after the shooting.

        1. The police release plenty of information when a police officer gets shot, or when the police believe a shooting was justified or makes them look good. Cowardice sets in when the police have caused a wrongful death.

      3. Nobody knows. The police have not released a statement.

        1. I suppose when it comes to cops it’s “guilty until proven innocent.”

          1. You’re sure an ardent, slobbering cop succor for a libertarian.

            I’m starting to suspect your just a bigoted clinger in silly libertarian drag.

            1. You’re no libertarian, rev. And neither is the turd who wrote this article.

              1. Correct on both counts
                Kirkland is a crummy troll who haunts Reason…..
                I have yet to see him post an intelligent or insightful comment.

                1. He haunts comment boards everywhere. He is a broken man.

          2. Murder is murder unless there’s justification.

      4. Eric doesn’t know anything. He literally has no idea what happened except what he saw in the 15 second clip. For all he knows Blake said “I’m getting my gun and I’m going to shoot you”. Or it could have gone the other way, with the cop saying “run to your car right now or I’ll shoot you right here”. There has to be an an investigation which everyone agrees has integrity. It can’t be the usual investigation that minimizes police responsibility or outright covers it up.

        Eric is simply contributing to the propaganda, which is something Reason writers do more often than not.

      5. Reason with their Marxist race-baiting, yet again. What vermin they’ve become.

        Lacking in all the hysteria over “7 bullets!” is an honest alternative set of rules of engagement for cops.

        Felon with pre-existing arrest warrant, resists arrest, attacks cops, won’t obey lawful police commands even with their guns drawn, either has a knife or is attempting to retrieve a knife from a vehicle with multiple children.

        What should cops do?
        1) Wish him and the children bon voyage?
        2) Get into a wrestling match with the felon, given them access to a gun and the life of an officer?
        3) Keep firing bullets until the threat is clearly neutralized?

        I go with 3, and assume that’s the standard operating procedure.

    2. But nobody has proven every rioter is a sanctioned and notified BLM member, so we can’t condone the violence – WK

    3. New here cant figure how to make a geneal comment, just a reply. Someone pls advise?

      1. go to end of coments

  2. Well at least reason finally acknowledges some of the obvious.

    Anyway I am fine with military in the streets, arresting anyone out after dark, and concentration camps for protestors. This has gone far enough and the left needs to be taught a lesson.

    1. How about prison sentences and gun/voting rights taken away too? That’s going on in Tennessee.

    2. Consecration camps and military rule.

      Just to make sure that is what you are in favor of.

      1. Your advice is always to submit to leftists, so it seems you’re cool with it despite historical precedent…

      2. Consecration camps and military rule.

        Just to make sure that is what you are in favor of.

        Spent one week every couple summers at a consecration camp as a child. Had a blast!

    3. Open wider, Art Kumquat. Your betters are not nearly done shoving progress down your bigoted, whimpering throat.

      Losing the culture war will continue to have consequences for bigoted, disaffected right-wing losers. We’ll let you slink back into the backwaters, but you will toe that line. Or get stomped even worse than you have been already.

      1. Ok I get it now. You’re just a troll.

        1. I’m a guy who despises bigots and has lost my taste for political correctness, so I call an obsolete right-wing bigot an obsolette right-wing bigot.

          1. You hate yourself.

          2. You are what you call others……..except worse because you seem to think you are a good guy instead of a ignorant troll.

            You support political correctness, liar also??

            As you seem to be a left wing bigot, I guess that you think it takes one to know one, at least you are half right.

      2. I liked the culture war better before it was an actual war.

    4. I am generally skeptical of most police use of force, but at this point, I am with you on this. They need to start going full lethal force on the rioters.

      However, that shouldn’t mean a blank check for lethal force against all protesters.

      1. But you’ll be among the first to whimper and cry when society drops the kid gloves when dealing with bigots.

        1. Be a man and don’t expect the cops to do your dirty work for you. Strap on your vest and volunteer to be first through the door.

  3. I’m a little surprised that Boehm wrote this and I could nit pick some details but it’s about fucking time Reason faced this issue. And slowly but surely they are. And not a hint of TDS in this one. Thanks Eric.

    1. ENB’s going to be really mean to Boehm in tomorrow’s roundup.

      1. Probably. But then we have Robby dumping on snot nosed white kids intimidating people on the street. What happened to all the Mostly Peaceful Protesters they’ve been lecturing us about for months? I’m starting to think that Nancy Rommelmann’s actual reporting is having an effect at Reason.

        1. The very first protests were just that — mostly protests. They degenerated, but not right away. Refusing to admit that, especially at the time, is just as stupid as refusing to admit the peaceful protesters have vanished.

          1. Except you continued to claim peaceful protesters after over a week of rioting including people killed by said rioters in STL. It is now day 84 in Portland, good to see you are able to come around after just a few days.

          2. Incredible.

    2. Rioting isn’t polling well for the Ds, so time to pretend they never covered for it

    3. It only took them 3 months…

      1. 84 days is not 3 months sir.

        1. Do you have any proof that 84 days isn’t 3 months? Can you cite a calendar???

          White Knighting aside, aren’t we up to 90 or so now?

          1. Portland was night 84 of my calendar is correct. It will hit 90 though.

          2. “Do you have any proof that 84 days isn’t 3 months?”

            They’re all Februarys. Duh!

        2. February begs to differ.

        3. 2 + 2 = 5
          84 = 90

          1. 84 totes = 90 if you just start with the premise that 8=9 and 4=0

            Textbook actively antiracist arithmetic

    4. If it keeps up, I’m gonna start hoping for an article on the current events regarding RUSSIA!gate again.

      1. Nah.
        The rioters are disposable to the left.
        The deep state isn’t

    5. Fvck him anyway, and especially for this stupid article. This calling justified shoots “murder” is what leads to the destruction. The shooting was neither excessive nor unnecessary. Going back to Trayvon and Mike Brown, the urge to virtue signal outweighs the desire to get it right, or even ever learn the truth. Or just acknowledge it once everyone knows.

  4. “The Senseless Destruction of Property in Kenosha, Minneapolis, and Elsewhere Is Not Advancing Justice”

    Correct. However MSNBC told me that the property destruction is actually caused by right-wing infiltrators. So if you see the occasional building on fire, don’t let it affect your opinion of our #BLM and #Antifa allies.

    1. It was those white supremacists with their tiki torches.

      1. Or possibly the white supremacists who attempted a modern-day lynching of Jussie Smollett. It’s absolutely outrageous they’re still at large.

        #IBelieveJussie

        1. I thought there was video proving it was Trump and Pence.

    2. Guess you don’t know about #umbrellaman

  5. We will have justice for Blacks no matter how many Black businesses we have to burn to get it!

    1. Amen brother! Or sister or however you choose to identify or not.

  6. Is this the first admission by a Reason writer of peaceful protesters not being so peaceful?

    1. Nah, still peaceful, just intensified.

    2. Nancy Rommelmann has been covering it, and had a good article yesterday. Of course, she actually went to Portland like an actual journalist, instead of getting her info from Twitter like ENB.

      1. “Actual journalists” work for reputable publications. Has Rommelmann ever been employed by any entity other or better than Quillette?

        If not, she’s no “actual journalist.” She’s a clinger streaming from her phone for a fringe audience.

        1. “reputable publications” – Do these even exist anymore?
          Glad to see only ‘Top Professionals’ count in your world Rev.

          1. If the Reverend doesn’t qualify who counts as a reputable journalist then he might be subject to Bad Thought.

    3. still mostly peaceful. only a few of the protesters actually break the windows or light the buildings on fire. the others peacefully cheer them on and rescue the merchandise from the flames.

  7. How many officers shot Blake? It is my understanding that one officer shot him in the back multiple times. If so, why should anyone other than the shooter lose his job?

    1. Should he lose his job? This wasn’t some no knock raid gone wrong. The police did things by the book (on man accused of assault and weapons charge) until the resisting suspect went back to the driver’s side. What reason would he have to do that? To drive away, barricade himself inside, or take out a gun.

      I said this yesterday, but if this guys gets away and shoots up a black todder on the street, he streets of Kenosha would not be on fire.

      1. I don’t know. That is not what I am asking.

      2. It might very well turn out to be an unjustified shooting, but there’s no way to tell just from a short, low-res clip (see, Boehm, that’s how you use the word “clip” properly). The sniveling, performative outrage by the writers here is stomach-turning.

      3. My personal opinion: it should never be acceptable/legal for a cop to shoot anyone in the back.

        Hell yes, he should loose his job as an absolute minimum of consequences.

        1. “My personal opinion: it should never be acceptable/legal for a cop to shoot anyone in the back.”

          That is some magical new legal theory.

          Whatever happened to the Fleeing Felon Rule?

      4. then the book needs to change. there were other options besides gunning him down. what happened to all the hand-to-hand combat training at the police academy?

        1. Was it banned due to police reform?

          1. exactly no clubs allowed no choking allowed no sitting on allowed. when you eliminate all non lethal methods your stuck with the lethal weapons

  8. “…was excessive, unnecessary use of deadly force.”

    Yeah, when I resist arrest, wrestle free of the cops, go to my driver’s side door and reach inside, the cops always just politely take the incoming fire and/or allow me to instigate a chase with minors in the car, prior to cutting me loose with apologies, because I’m white.

    I despise unjustified police killings (and the militarized police generally) but this one is not surprising at all. When the video begins, he had already been taken to the ground and wrestled free, and he was surrounded by cops with guns drawn yelling for him to get on the ground. Had he complied, he would not have been shot. They didn’t know what he was doing, but a reasonable person would conclude he was going for a weapon or to flee. Keep clutching those pearls.

    Also is he not still alive?

    1. He is.
      Maybe paralyzed.
      But he has Ben Crump repping him now, so…

    2. “Yeah, when I resist arrest, wrestle free of the cops”

      There was no wrestling free of the cops in this case. They never touched him until the moment they shot him. Any “resisting arrest” was strictly passive.

      1. “There was no wrestling free of the cops in this case. They never touched him until the moment they shot him.”

        No, there’s video that shows him on the ground, sitting with his back to the car, with the police trying to restrain him.

        “The footage, taken from a different angle than the initial video widely seen, shows Jacob Blake appearing to be on the ground beside the car.

        It appears at least one police officer is attempting to physically restrain Blake while he is on the ground.

        Blake later gets up and walks around the front of the car to the driver’s seat.”

        https://abc7.com/kenosha-police-shooting-jacob-blake-wisconsin-governor-tony-evers/6387351/

        1. I wonder if it’s true that another video of the incident recorded the cop saying “drop your knife!” before shooting him.

  9. If they had medicare for all and more subsidized housing, they wouldn’t feel the need to act out this way. Also they’d have more time to read articles like this and reflect on their wayward behavior.

    Also our current definition of ‘crime’ is extremely racist. It should be redefined as opposition to government policies designed to improve public welfare.

    1. If they had medicare for all and more subsidized housing, they wouldn’t feel the need to act out this way.
      Wasn’t the ACA supposed to free us to pursue our hobbies?

    2. Don’t forget solar panels and wind farms.

    3. Also they’d have more time to read articles like this and reflect on their wayward behavior.

      This is hilarious. It’s also what plenty of real shitlibs actually think.

  10. “The senseless violence in Kenosha, Minneapolis and elsewhere is not advancing the cause of justice.”

    It was never intended to.

  11. the officer who emptied his clip

    Good to see Bro-heim didn’t forget to consult the stylebook.

    1. I’m not a firearms pedant, but that phrase drives me up the wall. I only ever hear it said by people who have never touched a gun in their lives and are trying to sound cool.

      1. Right, it’s a mag, not a clip and what cop is going to carry a mag that only holds seven bullets?

        1. Boehm may live in VA, but he will never [be a man]

        2. “Right, it’s a mag, not a clip”

          My Garand has a sad.

          1. Is there a police force on the planet that uses 1911s as uniformed duty weapons?

            1. I’ve seen it. Though usually even those guys go 7+1, or have a McCormick mag with 8 or more.

              Free country, but I’d want to carry something that does a little better against intermediate barriers (like car doors or windshield glass) than .45ACP. And there’s no denying the capacity handicap, though how many police gunfights require a gazillion rounds anyway? Or even a mag change?

        3. its always a mag except when its a banana clip, get over that stupid distinction that does not further any discussions

      2. Agreed.
        And “clip” doesn’t sound cool – it’s stupid and grating.
        If you’re going for brevity/jargon, just say “mag” instead of “magazine”.

        “The officer who emptied his clip”
        “The officer who emptied his mag”

        The latter is not only accurate, but also sounds much better

        1. Agreed.

      3. Referring to a magazine as a “clip” is an intentional troll by lefties most of the time. I assume Boam is trolling.

        1. I’ve literally never seen or heard someone on the left do it to troll

        2. Any evidence of this being intentional?
          I’ve never heard this assertion before.

  12. The black community has problems. If we don’t address this inconvenient but plain to see reality, then we’ll never make progress.

    You’re not going to exist in a world where cops don’t shoot people this way. Social workers will eventually call some armed agents in response to situations gone haywire. And as long as a certain segment of the black community resist simple command or fail to address crimes rates in their neighborhood, this will continue.

    Meanwhile less women, Asians, gays, Latinos, and trans will be killed by cops, not because cops are all good, but because they don’t put themselves in situations that invite knee jerk actions. My mom doesn’t speak English and she was stopped twice by cops. Nothing happened to her. When you get stopped by cops, the things that need to happen are simple and intuitive.

    Black people are poor. They are isolated. They do not speak a second language. They cannot import business from their homeland or create wealth amongst themselves like immigrants, who basically create their own space in this country. Koreans have Koreatown, black people have Chicago. And they’re nowhere near networked as Latinos and Asians and will be left behind as those groups continue to advance in American society.

    The democrats won’t tell blacks to adjust to the new economy as they would tell blacks, and they won’t let free market do its things. So their patented fail of governance will hit the black community harder.

    1. edit – The democrats won’t tell blacks to adjust to the new economy as they would tell whites

    2. cope

      1. They are isolated.

        This is ridiculous. Most blacks are the opposite of isolated. They live very near downtowns of major cities. Huge amounts of other people’s money is spent on education. They’re given every advantage in education, and government and corporate employment.

        They do not speak a second language.

        The first is English! It’s kind of a big deal.

        And they’re nowhere near networked as Latinos and Asians

        I’m starting to wonder if you’ve ever actually seen black people.

        1. “The first is English! It’s kind of a big deal.”

          My first is English, second is Korean. That has gotten me jobs. Blacks don’t have that edge. You could say the same thing about whites, but they have firm stronghold on the economy.

          You think blacks are as networked as Latinos and Asians? You’re saying black Americans have inside track and connection to black businesses like immigrants? They get references, word of mouth opportunities and tips from church friends and black owned newspapers? My parents got jobs and sold stuff on Korean newspapers that cater just to them. Blacks have something like that?

          Did you think I was referring to online networking?

          Do you think

          1. My parents got jobs and sold stuff on Korean newspapers that cater just to them. Blacks have something like that?

            Who arrived in the country first black people or your Korean ancestry? Even as Koreans, aren’t you a minority among minorities? It’s no like you or your parents could just walk into any restaurant or laundromat in Chinatown and pass yourself as Korean.

            Assuming you don’t have some fictitious Korean-American ancestry that predates America and/or Korea, how did your parents/ancesters supercede blacks in terms of success so quickly?

            1. Er… pass yourself off as Chinese.

          2. “You think blacks are as networked as Latinos and Asians?”

            Yes. That you are ignorant of it does not mean it doesn’t exist. Granted, the network often perpetuates the attitudes and culture that impoverish them—things like how to max out their SNAP, or housing voucher, or other benefits— but blacks are extremely networked within their own communities.

            It’s their culture that sucks. Not them. Jordan Peterson observations on median IQ aside.

            1. Look at the way Koreans, Asians, and Latinos networked among themselves, upended and dominated multiple different sets of sports arenas not to mention pioneering and dominating multiple genres the music industry for the last half century if not longer. Black people have never enjoyed such an advantage.

              1. Been taking lessons from OBL, I see. Nice.

                XM could take a look at the black neighborhoods and businesses in places like Harlem, pre Great Society, as examples of positive networking, business ownership, and strong families. All despite rampant racial animus, if not overt Jim Crow laws.

                Again, the Black Jeopardy SNL sketch delves into the modern equivalents of those networks, “Oh, I know a guy…” “My cousin works at the Housing Department; he’ll hook you up.” And so on.

  13. I’ve noticed an uptick of articles wondering about maybe opening up economies soon.

    What’s changed?

    It’s starting to look like November may be too far to survive such a massive fake panic, after all. Sounds like the media and states made some serious miscalculations in how far it could be stretched.

    Guess we’ll find out at the ballot box, err I mean mail box. Not at all suspicious, nothing to see there. (Expect the worst and most wide spread recounts in history, just FYI.)

    1. It will take months and the inevitable litigation will land at SCOTUS. We can hope for a large victory one way or the other, which would spare us that agony.

      I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but I do have serious concerns about voting by mail.

  14. As blindingly stupid as looting and arson are, I can at least understand them as an immediate knee-jerk reaction in the two cities. I cannot understand them the next night or in other cities, Portland beggars belief, and the “silence is violence” crap in DC is just brainwashed proggies without a functioning brain cell to their name.

    1. They’re happening in cities like Portland because they know there will be little to no resistance from the whipped Regressives living there.

      1. in Portland and Seattle they just wait around for the next convenient excuse to riot

  15. The Senseless Destruction of Property in Kenosha, Minneapolis, and Elsewhere Is Not Advancing Justice

    And what makes you think the violence is supposed to have anything to do with justice? It’s violence for the sake of violence, destruction for the sake of destruction. You gotta tear down the old system before you build a new one. When your enemy tells you he intends to destroy you, you should believe him, and these people all along have been telling you they intend to destroy this civilization. They don’t want “change”, they want the entire thing swept away.

    1. Maybe justice = leftist totalitarianism?

  16. “Eric Garner, George Floyd, Philando Castile, Breonna Taylor”

    Kelly Thomas, Rhogena Nicholas, Dennis Tuttle, Justine Damond…or is there something about them which messes with the narrative? Something which indicates that police abuse *isn’t* a tool wielded by the white oppressors to keep blacks down?

    1. maybe a symptom of Democrat controlled cities kissing up to police unions who donate to their campaigns and protect bad cops from being taken off the streets early in their careers?

      if the answer is to vote, as some are saying, maybe they should try voting for some other party this time.

      1. Senator Amy Klobuchar trying to sneak out of the room…

    2. I hate to burst your bubble, but Kelly Thomas, of Fullerton, CA, was a mentally ill white homeless guy, not African-American. He was shot and killed by a cop for camping out under a bridge, and nothing more.

  17. This is reason finally coming to terms with the fact that the left is so bad, voters will pick Trump in the hopes of some real action against the rioters burners and looters. I don’t mean a slap on the wrist, people now want blood for the crimes of the left against society.

    Welcome to the party, pal. We are putting Trump in office again, and we are going to destroy the marxists and their bootlicking media sponsers.

    1. After the concentration camps or before?

      You were the one here arguing for them. Please continue.

  18. Sentence first, trial later.

    1. Thank you.

  19. Is anyone else tired of convicted criminals and people with warrants for their arrest choosing to violently RESIST ARREST? The crowds screaming certainly don’t help de-escalate the situation. Cops are human, imperfect…and when surrounded by chaos and a criminal ignoring legal orders and then reaching into a car….maybe for a gun…maybe for a lollipop…what would you do if you were that cop?

    1. Didn’t BLM tell them the proper procedure: “Hands Up; Don’t Shoot.”
      Improves your odds immensely of surviving contact with the cops.

      1. YES! That’s a very astute observation, and I had forgotten the original mantra. Very telling here – the original slogan suggested cops should not kill people with their hands up. I’m all in favor of HANDS UP DON’T SHOOT. I am emphatically not on board with IF I AM BLACK I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT AND IF YOU SHOOT ME YOU’RE A MURDERER.

        1. That’s not being a good Reason style “libertarian”

  20. “The Senseless Destruction of Property… Is Not Advancing Justice”

    It’s not senseless for Soros. He’s paying for this specifically because it fulfills a purpose.

    1. Please do enlighten us. The only thing the senseless destruction of property does (besides hurting people who have done nothing wrong) is provide talking points and footage for political commercials in favor of Trump. Is that something Soros and all the secret pedophile rulers of the world want?

      1. the secret pedophile rulers

        You mean Epstein? Or are you talking about Wiener, Clinton, Spitzer, Polanski, Acosta, Bill Richardson, George Mitchell, etc?

        1. Maybe the Carholic Church?
          Or Jimmy Seville?

        2. Don’t forget Se. Bob Menendez …

  21. So many good lines in here!

    “The shooting of Jacob Blake, a black man, by a white police officer in Kenosha, Wisconsin, on Sunday was excessive, unnecessary use of deadly force.”

    I’ll agree that seven shots are excessive, but what is an officer supposed to do when he has told a suspect to freeze and has his weapon drawn? Just let the suspect ignore the cop and go about his business, walking away from them and getting into his car, where he might have a weapon stashed? I know, libertarians are rabidly anti-cop, but come on. If people can ignore the police, if you can walk away from police when they have their weapons drawn, there goes the “enforcement” in law enforcement. Perhaps you prefer “law suggestion?” “Law requests?” “If you wouldn’t mind not breaking the law, that would be great thanks.” What do you suggest instead of cops since all of them are apparently murderers?

    “The use of unnecessary and life-altering force against Jacob Blake reminds us of the equally unnecessary and violent deaths of Eric Garner, George Floyd, Philando Castile, Breonna Taylor, and many others.”

    Don’t even go there. You lose all credibility. George Floyd was down, no threat, had surrendered, and the cop kept his knee on the man’s carotid artery until he died. That was murder. Ignoring a cop when his weapon is drawn and purposefully doing something that you have to KNOW will make the cop anxious (i.e. reach into your car) is not the same as cops breaking into your apartment in the middle of the night on a bad drug tip and shooting you. I wouldn’t turn my back on ANYONE who had their gun drawn and pointed at me. I definitely would not antagonize the person.

    “These riots take attention away from where it should be—on the police officers who tried to kill a seemingly innocent man on Sunday”

    At least you said “seemingly,” but that tells me you have no idea what actually happened, and yet you are prepared to try the cop for murder in the first. Whatever happened, it wasn’t a couple cops who said, “Hey, that black guy over there looks like he’s probably innocent. Let’s go kill him!”

    The man had a warrant out for his arrest, he was accused of sexual assault, apparently he stole something from his neighbor and they called the police.

    Mr. Boehm, you have no idea what happened in the moments leading up to this confrontation, and yet you are prepared to draw conclusions based on a video where you can’t even tell if Blake was holding a knife or not. This article is irresponsible, with serious accusations and strong statements without an understanding of the facts on the ground.

    I really want to know what the libertarians suggest we have instead of cops, or what cops should do when a suspect just blithely walks away from them and reaches into their car. If they have to let anyone go who walks away, everyone will just walk away. So you have identified the problem. What is your solution? No cops at all? Cops with batons only? (Terrible idea in a heavily armed country.) Social workers instead of cops? It’s all fine and good to be against something, but you have to tell me what you want instead.

    I’ve been a subscriber since 1999 and generally identify as a libertarian, but you guys are losing me. The left has gone so far overboard that I can’t even consider their side anymore (see Oregon, Portland). But with this, I feel pushed farther to the right. I despise Donald Trump and believe that he is unqualified for the office he holds. But based on garbage analysis like this, I’m starting to fear I might vote for him.

    1. Didn’t mean to write an essay, but I’m getting pretty fed up.

      1. As you should be

    2. Trump aside, the RNC message is vastly superior to the idiotic stupidity of the DNC.

      And I kinda like how he sticks it to assholes.

      1. I do, too. The left is losing this one by being so extreme that people are pushed to the right. Mostly peaceful protests, all cops are murderers, rioting is cool, dumping a jar of piss on another human is fine, trolling through neighborhoods in the middle of the night is the thing to do, brandishing an assault rifle at an armored police vehicle and taunting them is totally fine. Few of these people are arrested, many of them let go after arrest. They get away with it. The left encourages them. The media covers for them. Their orangemanbad philosophy has led them to pure Machiavellian tactics: whatever it takes to remove orangemanbad.

        Also, no information on death tolls from the ‘rona, just constant raw numbers and scare tactics. If I invite some friends to a backyard barbecue, the city can shut off my electricity. If I walk through the mall without a mask, I get a ticket. Threaten cops with an assault rife? They just drive away.

        These are our priorities?

        1. These ***ARE*** the Prog Priorities.

  22. “I’ve been a subscriber since 1999 and generally identify as a libertarian, but you guys are losing me.”

    Sure gonna miss you.

    1. No need to be an asshole.

      1. It’s what he is.

  23. The destruction of property is regrettable.

    The repetitive killing of black citizens by police officers is worse.

    What is it going to take to get bigoted, trigger-happy police officers to stop killing black citizens? To get substandard communities of bigot-appeasing citizens to stop arranging the conditions in which police officers kill black citizens? To get bigot-appeasing people to start holding police officers accountable?

    The bigots — police officers, supervisors, elected officials, citizens — don’t seem to be getting the message and don’t seem to be being held accountable. Better Americans should impose whatever it takes to correct that situation. Appeasing the bigots is counterproductive and immoral.

    1. And what alternative do you suggest?

      I don’t know why I’m bothering to ask, but I am unimpressed with your analysis which seems basically to be All Whites Are Bigots and All Blacks Are Victims. Painting a race of people with such a broad brush is something racists do. Are you racist? What about police killing white people? Is that okay because, hey, one less bigot in the world?

      1. That guy is either a troll or a lunatic. He’s been making almost that exact same comment multiple times a day for at least a decade.

        1. I think he’s a troll and I vote we all ignore him.

        2. Rev. Kirk is a nut. No need to waste any pixels on him.

      2. Not all whites are bigots. Not nearly. Too many of them are bigots, and far too many appease the bigots, but the mainstream is increasingly relegating the bigots to the inconsequential fringe. How do you think better people have beaten the bigots in the culture war?

        1. By controlling all of academia, journalism, and pop culture, of course.

          To quote show Jon Snow, you were right about us the whole time.

    2. a change in the political party that’s been running these cities for the past several decades would be a good start

  24. Total numbers of unarmed people shot by police is very small nationally..and some of them are situations where the cops are trying to arrest bad hombres. Let’s look at facts.

    As for what is going on..I”m told by my woke friends it’s protesting against “the man” and any destructions of property or even deaths are simply breaking few “eggs” necessary to make the new multicultural America which is finally freed from any Western Imperialist (read you know what) oppressors. My grandparents fled from these sorts of marxist thugs and with apologies to the wokes and Nick Sarwarks at Reason…real Americans are not going to sit by and let these marxist/bolsheviks continue their attack on our natural rights.

  25. As creech pointed out above, what ever happened to HANDS UP, DON’T SHOOT?

    1. Hands up, baby, Hands up, gimme your heart gimme gimme your heart baby. Hands up, baby hands up….

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPa1Jt_JJpQ

      Ah the 80s.

  26. Duh.

  27. Systematic racism eh?

    The dangerous part of race is culture and we choose that. Most racism is directed at cultural behaviour which conflicts with other cultural behaviour.

    That conflict doesn’t go away until conflicting behaviour does.

    No amount of protesting, looting and vandalism is going to make me accept the culture of baby momma bastards, absent fathers or violent gang culture.

    White privilege?

    Privilege is what I get for choosing civilization.

    1. There’s no such thing as ‘systemic’ anything.

      It’s just a pseudo-intellectual term devised by stupid people for stupid people.

      To put it mildly and bluntly.

      The left sure love all these empty terms that can’t be quantified.

      It gives them endless rope to babble along.

      1. FWIW, the person you are responding to is a holocaust denier. He is highly unlikely to be making good faith arguments about race.

        1. Rufus knows

        2. Is that how you justify your bigotry, with more bigotry?

          You refuse to consider one argument because you refuse to consider another.

          Which of us is more unlikely to discuss in “good faith”?

          1. Fuck off, Nazi scum.

            1. Says the bigot

              1. Says the Nazi scum

      2. It means pertaining to systems. You don’t understand the term in the same way you don’t understand what people mean when they talk about racism in the first place. While it would be nice if Bubba with his militia currently shooting up protests would find it in his heart to love black people instead of hate them, Bubba’s heart is not what people want to change. Like with everything else, you think it’s all about you.

        It’s about policies and practices that keep black people in a lower socioeconomic bracket. That’s all you need to worry about when it comes to the word “systemic.” They’re referring to cops, courts, and prisons and, yes, HR managers instinctively choosing Rebecca over Shaniqua. The entire network of things in our society that rob them of the same promises of capitalism you have and that you constantly insist we all live by.

        Now what are your problems we should all care about again? Some high school punk got made fun of once? Is that it? Did you have to be nice to a trans person? Well the streets are open. Protest away.

        1. “It’s about policies and practices that keep black people in a lower socioeconomic bracket.“

          That’s the primary line of bullshit.

          Prove that there are policies directed at only blacks. Show us all the specific policies that deny blacks agency, free will.

          1. Red lining, all their wealth being stolen and their communities plundered over and over, a lack of politician will to invest in their communities (that would be you), a criminal justice system whose primary mission seems to be to keep their population under the boot, down to everyday racism… the entire history of the United States.

            1. I asked for proof, not more rhetoric.

              Be specific. What policies are currently in place that deny blacks agency, free will?

        2. Tony, your condescension would have more impact if you knew what you were talking about. I am sure that the economic inequalities you are concerned about started with the same type of amateur social engineering that you will now suggest is the solution.

          1. I don’t know if I’d call mass enslavement and apartheid “amateur.”

      3. “There’s no such thing as ‘systemic’ anything.”

        It’s collectivism imposed upon the unwilling or uninvolved.

  28. ●▬▬▬▬PART TIME JOBS▬▬▬▬▬●Since I started with my online business I earn $90 every 15 minutes. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it out..clcik this….USA JOBES
    .

  29. Oh, for fuck’s sake.

    This spate of arson has nothing to do with anger over shootings, any more than the annual spate of arson in Detroit in the 1980s was because of anger over the existence of Halloween. There are a bunch of assholes around who get a thrill out of arson, and if society is stupid enough to give them an opportunity to do it without being punished, they will burn whatever they can get their hands on.

  30. I make up to $90 an hour on-line from my home. My story is that I give up operating at walmart to paintings on-line and with a bit strive I with out problem supply in spherical $40h to $86h… someone turned into top to me by way of manner of sharing this hyperlink with me, so now i’m hoping i ought to help a person else accessible through sharing this hyperlink… strive it, you HERE? Read More

  31. None of this was ever designed to advance the cause of justice. The violence is part of an organized effort to destabilize our Republic so that people will willingly vote for politicians who will enact Socialism. Rome cira 400 CE just turned into Moscow in 1917.

    1. So tell your vigilante friends to stop shooting. Wouldn’t want them to be part of a socialist plot.

      1. That you thing this a suitable retort says it all.

      2. Tell your rapist-supporting thug friends to stop doing things that will get them shot. Wouldn’t want them to be having to call the cops that they keep protesting against.

  32. This wasn’t any less true in July or February. These protesters aren’t advancing their stated cause, unless they’re flat out admitting that they’re aiming to undermine order and ruin other people’s lives. They’re just entertaining themselves at everyone else’s expense.

  33. HERE► Brilliant article. I had wondered how future generations would view the mind boggling hysteria that is currently gripping the whole world, especially Europe and the USA. We look back at past centurhysteria can be – like a stampede. Thought the writer was a historian, his analysis is so sharpies and wonder how they could have been so stupid. I guess it shows how powerful mass . He has seen through the Emperor’s new clothes!Go to link.

  34. Reason continues down the cess pool hole of irrationality. This incident is still under investigation yet Eric Boehm has passed judgement on events he knows very, very little about. Was the suspect armed? Is the shooting race based? This drivel is the kind of nonsense that now dominates “Left-Libertarianism” which is nothing but Progressivist Marxism.

  35. Resisting arrest is the root cause of all of these criminal shootings.
    When will that be addressed?

  36. It would be nice if a reporter from the news media would actually analyze the motives of the people doing the destruction. We know it is a diverse set with some of them being outside agitators trying to make BLM look bad. There are also many BLM shouting down the destroyers and urging peace. I’m just saying. Maybe the media could do its damn job.

    1. LOL.

      Sure, it’s false flag stuff. That must be it. Yeah, that’s the ticket!
      It’s not that the media didn’t ask because the media already knew the answer.

      If only Stalin knew!

      Never change lefties, never change.

    1. They were trying to take credit for the fight between two women that he broke up.

  37. I’m sure Mr. Carpenter was only able to acquire that business due to his white privilege!
    /s

  38. I was hoping to read an article condemning the senseless destruction of property in Kenosha and elsewhere, but instead got an apologia for the rioting and another aricle on how bad the police are.

    Maybe I should just stick with the Post, at least they’re up front about their bias.

  39. Make Extra 74$ daily@ 411mania

    >ReadMore.

  40. You don’t get it. The protection of property, private or public, is not ever justified any more if it ever physically hurts or threatens to hurt anyone or might possibly interfere with their apparently infinite right of free expression. After all, it’s only stuff. We’ve entered into a higher phase of civilized behavior in that we’ve realized that, after all, private property is kinda theft and public property belongs to everyone who happens to occupy it.
    I mean, what good did the protection of property ever do for anyone? Like I said, it’s only stuff and intrinsically inferior to people and ideas.
    I’ll be floating off now.

  41. From the first sentence, this article was a waste of time.
    If Eric had actually seen the video, he would know that the thug was leaning over and reaching into his car when he got shot, after he ignored order by guys with drawn guns to stop.
    There is no promise that he wouldn’t have been shot if he had complied with them, but how could anyone expect a known violent criminal to NOT get shot when he acts like he did?

    1. “Thug”? So let’s see if I understand you…when two armed policemen, guns drawn, see anyone bend over, for any reason, away from them, it’s ok to shoot not once, but SEVEN times into his back? In any setting, that is cowardly, criminal behavior. The police are supposed to use just enough force to neutralize a suspect to gain compliance. A badge is not a hunting license for deranged wanna-be tough guys. I guarantee you, if this was a relative or friend of yours, your attitude would be different. If not, there’s no hope for you.

      1. When police tell you to stop to detain you, do you resist, struggle with them, get away and reach into your vehicle?

        What do you think those armed officers were thinking?

        What was going through his dipshit head?

        We’ll never know if he was going to kill those officers, will we?

  42. At least one still from the original video clearly shows Blake holding a knife and the repeated commands to “drop the knife” are clear indicators that he was armed and noncompliant. The shooting, while ugly (it’s the street; it’s all ugly), is justifiable. The massive, hysterical overreaction on the part of the “community”, for lack a better word is criminal riot and nothing more.

    Could you at least wait for the facts before burning down your community?

  43. How about demending justice for those who are perpetrating the violenc,e arson, serious bodily harm (bricks, frozen water bottles, longboards, etc) brandishing firearms, lethal lazers, assaults, breaking and entering, looting, etc?

    NONE of taht behaviour is protected by the US Constitution, and NONE OF IT furthers any formo of discussion or actioni to cure “grievances”.

  44. Call all of them demonstrations, protests, riots or whatever you want, but mobs which compel, assault, murder, etc. and demand “social justice” or some other singular judicial accounting for past sins, is only one thing:
    vigilantism or lynch mob if you prefer.

    If you doubt these vigilantes are truly motivated by any warped sense of justice, then they are marauders.

    How do you think this scenario will play out, everybody’s going to roll over and play dumb, and not see the Democrats fingerprints all over these lynch mobs? That’s their narrative they’ve deduced from a mimeographed fact patter; a narrow mind set.

    These people are self-proclaimed vigilantes, I’m just calling them I see ’em.

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.