Seattle Protesters Establish 'Autonomous Zone' Outside Evacuated Police Precinct

Is the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone a brave experiment in self-government or just flash-in-the-pan activism?

Anti-police-brutality demonstrations are cooling off in much of the country. Not so in Seattle, where over a week of protests and street clashes has resulted in police abandoning a precinct building, demonstrators establishing an "autonomous zone" in the surrounding streets, and a brief occupation of city hall.

The site of much of this drama has been the Seattle Police Department (SPD) Eastern Precinct in the city's Capitol Hill neighborhood.

Late Sunday night and early Monday morning saw police and National Guard troops push protesters away from the Eastern Precinct with tear gas and pepper spray in what local alt-weekly The Stranger describe as "the most aggressive and sustained" response to protests yet.

The use of tear gas was particularly controversial, given that Mayor Jenny Durkan and SPD Chief Carmen Best had announced a 30-day ban on the police's use of the stuff against protestors that past Friday. The SPD, via tweet, said that its officers were being pelted with projectiles and that the presence of an armed gunman justified its use. The city of Seattle is now being sued by the protestors represented by the Washington chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union over its crowd control tactics.

Then, on Monday afternoon, in an apparent attempt to prevent similar clashes from playing out, SPD boarded up the Eastern Precinct building and announced that it would be opening up nearby streets to demonstrators.

Later that night, Durkan said on Twitter that police had removed barricades around the precinct building "to proactively de-escalate interactions between protestors and law enforcement" while still "safely securing the facility."

In an effort to proactively de-escalate interactions between protestors and law enforcement outside the East Precinct, Chief Best and @SeattlePD officers have removed barricades surrounding the East Precinct while safely securing the facility.

— Jenny Durkan (@MayorJenny) June 9, 2020

The SPD's announcement said that the precinct would continue to be staffed. However, pictures from the scene show the building totally boarded up and heavily graffitied, and the Capitol Hill Seattle Blog—a neighborhood news website—says that the building is empty.

I'm outside of the Seattle Police Department's East Precinct for @townhallcom. Police have pulled out of the area and protesters have set up barricades in the streets. They have declared it a "Cop Free Zone." pic.twitter.com/iYFQ9B4jhz

— Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) June 9, 2020

That Monday night, in the absence of a police presence, protestors formed what's now being called the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ). Reassembled barricades went up around the new zone, with some featuring signs welcoming people to "Free Capitol Hill." The Seattle Times reports that tents have started to go up in the CHAZ and that folks are hoping to turn the boarded-up cop shop into a community center.

The first night of the autonomous zone reportedly saw some speeches from demonstrators and an appearance by socialist Seattle City Councilmember Kshama Sawant, who sparred with some protesters about how much to cut the SPD's budget.

A few assembled demonstrators reportedly demanded a 100 percent defunding of the police. Sawant, reports The Stranger, said that that was infeasible under capitalism, and touted her own plan to cut the department's budget by 50 percent.

A news crew from the local Fox affiliate was reportedly chased out of the zone by some demonstrators.

Tuesday saw more activity in the zone, with more barricades going up, and some businesses in the area opening up to offer water, bathroom facilities, and food to demonstrators.

https://twitter.com/shirgoldbird/status/1270557601311240193

That night, Sawant led a crowd from the CHAZ to Seattle city hall for an hour-long protest inside the building, where people chanted and demanded the resignation of Durkan and the defunding of the police.

The City Hall occupation, reports Capitol Hill Seattle Blog, saw more fights between Sawant and some demonstrators wary of her coopting of their movement. The councilmember touted her plan to tax Amazon. Another speaker countered that the focus should remain on racial justice issues.

Kshama Sawant is pretty much giving her stump speech here, celebrating the $15 minimum wage and building new political representation that "grabs power for ordinary people." Also, talks of vote on "banning chemical weapons and chokeholds" by SPD. pic.twitter.com/PvofhfMXDm

— Evan Bush (@evanbush) June 10, 2020

Afterward, protesters returned to the CHAZ for a screening of the documentary 13th.

The zone has attracted national and critical attention. Sen. Ted Cruz (R–Texas) tweeted about how the situation was "endangering people's lives."

This is endangering people's lives. #ThisIsNuts https://t.co/jvBHGzfDDT

— Ted Cruz (@tedcruz) June 9, 2020

Yet so far the zone appears neither as lawless as conservatives fear nor as autonomous as some of its occupants might like. The city's Fire Department says it has committed more staff to cover the area. Other city departments have been on-site to clear away trash and empty dumpsters. SPD says it will still answer 911 calls in the area.

With the situation on the ground in flux, it's impossible to know where the CHAZ is headed. While the movement behind the zone can't be described as libertarian (a Medium essay purporting to be a list demands from the Free Capitol folks includes calls for both police abolition and rent control), it is still vaguely encouraging to see people try to set up their own self-governing enclave in the vacuum left by the police's withdrawal.

Comments

[John]

How about it being theft of public property and an act of terrorism? What gives these assholes the right to declare autonomy over land they don't own? Do the wokeltarians at reason no longer respect private property rights anymore?

There is literally nothing the Left can do that would cause reason to issue a unequivocal condemnation. But the tweets complaining about he homeless people eating all of their food might be the funniest thing I have ever seen.

https://twitter.com/davereaboi/status/1270738218045050881

So there is that.

[MP]

That wins Twitter. Hands down.

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[Gray_Jay]

"Brave experiment in self-government."

Well, Britschgi certainly knows how to chum a comments thread.

OT, sort of. You'll like this one, John. Turns out Chauvin and Floyd did know each other, per a witness speaking at CBS News, and didn't really care for each other. Be interesting to see if this gets corroborated: https://www.khou.com/article/news/local/george-floyd/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-knew-each-other-worked-at-nightclub/285-5e25ddff-d196-49ea-83ad-9dd8650deb91

[John]

I saw that. And I said days ago that this would turn out to be some personal beef between them and have nothing to do with race.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

John, I'm guessing you didn't see my comment to you earlier this morning. Here it is.

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[fdog50]

That stuff is gold to a prosecutor and a real headache for Chauvin's defense attorney. Shows motive for him to do harm to Floyd, even though it takes it to personal animosity rather than racism per se. It will be interesting if this goes to trial.

[CE]

Has anyone reviewed the 18+ complaints against Chauvin for evidence of racial bias? Seems like he was just a bad cop all around who should have been fired years ago.

[Marty Feldman's Eyes]

why not both?.gif

[Brandybuck]

The purpose of Reason is not to valid your opinions. They are themselves an opinion site, but they are NOT John's opinion site. It's libertarian, so they offer opinions of a libertarian nature, not Trumpian nature.

Their opinion so far is fair. From a libertarian perspective, an experiment in self governance is interesting, even if performed by a bunch of rabid idiots. Reason is NOT celebrating this, they're reporting on this.

[Gray_Jay]

Oh fuck off, you whiny little git.

This group of people took over six blocks of Seattle through armed force and threats of violence and property destruction. It deserves nothing less than unequivocal condemnation from a magazine that claims to be about Libertarianism and the Non-Aggression. Not this 'both sides', wishy-washy crap from Britschgi.

[Gray_Jay]

Principle got omitted. Which should be obvious, but still.

[Dr. Ed]

Exactly. What if White Supremacists did it.

[Muzzled Woodchipper]

Or more accurately, “white supremacists.”

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[soldiermedic76]

How is John wrong here? What is remotely libertarian about leftist seizing property?

[n00bdragon]

Some people will be more liberated than others.

[Johnny Lawrence]

I’m just waiting for Shikha to decry the border wall and identification check points at the entrances to the autonomous zone.

[CE]

Excellent point.

[CE]

Libertarians have a trademark on establishing autonomous zones though.

[AngelaTC]

This isn't an experiment in self-government. This is an armed insurrection. It will not take long for them to start appropriating homes and cars.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Hilariously, they already have their own "Escape From New York"-style Duke warlord running the place now. I can't think of any more appropriate end result than all these white faggots in the Autistic Zone having to line up and kiss this dude's feet at the start of every day.

[darkflame]

Yep. I heard that some of those "willing" shop owners are complaining about being extorted for money too. How much you wanna bet that they all rolled over because they didn't want their stores burnt to the ground and their teeth kicked out of their heads?

[Muzzled Woodchipper]

This is why we have AR15s.

[harpac]

They're already engaging in Stop and Frisk. Oh, the irony

[BA Byron]

Already done, their warlords are demanding protection money from store owners unlucky enough to live in the "everything is free zone", while their citizens are begging people bring them food, but only vegan food (<-- wish this was a joke).

But, sure, the autonomous zone will be a Utopia once everyone agrees on a set of rules and delegates the task of enforcing those rules to a group of leaders...

Oh wait...

[R Mac]

So everyone who lives in this neighborhood’s property rights don’t mean shit, from a libertarian perspective? Bullshit.

This isn’t a bunch of people buying some property and trying to do their own thing.

[tlapp]

Yes, the property rights of the valid owners in that area were violated by criminals. It really is that simple.

[JesseAz]

Arent you one of the ones who tell people who dont agree with every article on here to leave?

[awildseaking]

Your entire existence is a joke, man. Marxist revolutions are an experiment in self government too. Libertarians should never be fascinated with use of force, confiscation of private and public property, or anything that can be generally ascribed to the methods of authoritarians.

Consider the restaurants who are open and "supporting" the protests. Maybe they're scared shitless and don't want their livelihood destroyed by people who can't pay them back? Just a thought.

An actual Libertarian news site would support a principled society that respects the social contract known as the Constitution. We all agreed to have police. Nobody consented to this autonomous bullshit.

[middlefinger]

Reason is a global left, pro central planning, pro federal land value tax, urbanist news site.

FWIW, BLM calls for collective ownership of land.

[gay]

LOLOL NO ONE FUCKING CONSENTED TO THE POLICE EITHER YOU MORON

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

NO ONE FUCKING CONSENTED TO THE POLICE EITHER YOU MORON

The voting majority most certainly fucking did...you moron.

[CE]

Except no one alive today signed the Constitution. And the politicians who swear an oath to defend and uphold it routinely ignore it.

[tr2000]

You're wrong, this is worrying from a libertarian perspective. Please explain to me what a mob demanding collectivism has to do with libertarian principles of government. If all you understand about libertarianism is that libertarians like self governance then you might... not be a libertarian.

[ThomasD]

"They are themselves an opinion site,"

Yet Christian Britschgi won't even offer an opinion on this.

[An Non]

From a libertarian perspective, there are distinct reasons to be clear that this is a bunch of rabid idiots who are not indulging in an experiment in self governance but rather a demonstration of the essential problems of socialism and/or pure anarchism. (And arguably they're not proper anarchists, but rather follow socialism with anarchist trappings.) Their demands include massive amounts of free stuff paid for by and actions from a country they are claiming to no longer be part of.

[Rossami]

re: theft of public property - Maybe but probably not. Trespassing, yes. And probably some other crimes. But unless they are planning to permanently take custody of the building and move it somewhere, the actions described do not meet the legal definition of "theft". Now, if they took a police car or looted city hall of all its pens, that would be theft of public property.

re: act of terrorism - Nowhere close to the legal definition of that crime. Nowhere close to any reasonable non-legal definition, either. Calling that terrorism cheapens the word and demeans the victims of real terrorism.

re: declaring autonomy over land they don't own - Compare and contrast to the Declaration of Independence.

re: respect for private property rights - If all they took or occupied was public property (city hall, etc), then private property rights are inapplicable.

There's lots to criticize in the actions described in the article above. Your particular criticisms, however, are not good ones.

[soldiermedic76]

They are policing who can and cannot enter public property, thus they are stealing. The district also has a number of private businesses, again, by occupying who comes and goes, they are stealing commerce from those private businesses.
There also has been reports that they are extorting (or attempting to) payments from private business owners within the district.
Your point about the Declaration of Independence is just juvenile. Most of the signatories were land owners, and or granted rights to that land by the crown. The crown had decided not to honor the charters by which the colonies were founded. This is a completely stupid and ahistorical reference by you.
Terrorism can also include the use of intimidation not just actual violence. So again, your argument is not as sound as you present it.

[Ra's al Gore]

They are policing who can and cannot enter public property

OpenBordersLibertarian, please pick up the white courtesy phone. Someone is implementing immigration laws.

[TJJ2000]

lmao!!! +10000

[Rossami]

Sorry, soldiermedic but those are not the legal definitions. Trespass, obstruction, probably a host of other crimes, sure. But not "stealing". It may sound pedantic but precision in thought and language is important.

Blocking who may come and go to a private business is a form of boycotting. Again, it may or may not be legally done but it is emphatically not "stealing". There is no definition of "theft" so broad that it includes opportunity costs.

Extortion, on the other hand, is a crime and the definition matches what you allege. That would be a valid accusation to lay against the occupiers.

Your interpretation of the Declaration of Independence is not relevant to my criticism of John's original post. He accused the occupiers of "declaring autonomy over land they don’t own". The signatories of the DoI did the same. (Royal charters granted use of the land. The crown still owned it. And regardless, they declared autonomy over a lot more than their individual charters.)

To be clear, I am not defending the actions or motivations of the protesters. But criticisms and especially accusations of crimes need to be factually and legally correct. If you're going to accuse them of crimes, do so of the ones they deserve. Don't abuse language in ways that will let them evade responsibility.

[Illocust]

Preventing people from leaving an area would be kidnapping not boycotting.

[Janky Doodle]

Preventing people from leaving an area would be false imprisonment actually.

[soldiermedic76]

Actually, the signatories of the DOI did own the land. Royal charters gave the right to private property, and most of them had purchased the property they owned. So yes they did own, at least in part, the land they were declaring autonomy over.
As for legal definition of theft, you didn't state legal definition of theft. Theft has both a legal and a colloquial definition. It also a crime to prevent people from entering private property/businesses.

[Gray_Jay]

"There is no definition of “theft” so broad that it includes opportunity costs."

Someone hasn't been following the whining surrounding copyright infringement...

I kid, but Rossami, it's real property they've taken. Of course they can't 'permanently deprive the rightful owner' of it like they can a chattel. Would you prefer it described as 'conquest' instead? I don't think that makes it better for Antifa.

[ThatSkepticGuy]

“ Blocking who may come and go to a private business is a form of boycotting.”

Actually, people who aren’t talking completely out of their ass know that it legally qualifies as Assault, and in extreme cases, Kidnapping.

[Juice]

or granted rights to that land by the crown

Which acquired the land peacefully?

[soldiermedic76]

In many cases yes, initially.

[soldiermedic76]

In fact, much of the time the American Indians actually welcomed the settlers at first and many allied with them. Other times, as in the case of Plymouth Colony, most of the original inhabitants had died off from unintentionally introduced disease before the colonies were established. The history of conflict really didn't occur in most cases until decades after the colonies were established. This is different than how the Spaniards started their colonies in central and South America, were they often did conquest by violence.

[Shitlord of the Woodchippers]

Shhhhh..... you’re going to ruin the progtard narrative.

[darkflame]

what about sedition? seems like that could get thrown in there now that they've "succeeded" from the USA.

[awildseaking]

"It's okay officer, I only confiscated and used your property temporarily!"

[Agammamon]

There are people all over the world - including reservations across the United States - that have asked or are asking the exact same question.

[ravenshrike]

The answer being that 70-90% of their population died off in a biological apocalypse prior to the colonists settling in what would become the US and Canada. This effectively destroyed any polities that were there, which with no system of writing we have scant record of at best. The remaining fragments initially were for the most part welcoming of the settlers, both because there was plenty of space at the time and because many of the factions welcomed the assistance the arms and technology the settlers brought for use in their small scale conflicts. As time passed, concepts such as manifest destiny became popular, placing the colonists in direct conflict over resources with the native populations, which at that point had been both outbred due to better living conditions that the new countries had because of their technology, a massive influx of additional settlers escaping the internecine warfare of europe, and outfought because of their access to vastly superior weaponry and logistics.

[CE]

Never trust a Yankee or a Puritan.

[R Mac]

So will this commie kid learn the lesson that that’s why communism doesn’t work, or the lesson that for communism to work, you need a special few with all the power (guns) to make sure resources are equitably distributed?

[damikesc]

Well, they have their own WARLORD now.

LIBERTARIAN MOMENT!!!

[darkflame]

I'm imagining something between Mad Max and the sand people from Star Wars.

[Shitlord of the Woodchippers]

And Escape From New York.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

More like Lord of the Flies.

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[Jon Lester]

That tells me you're fucking stupid with your money and would spend every damn dime of it no matter what you make.

[Dr. Ed]

Trump should send tanks in there.

[ThomasD]

No, the Feds should not be in the business of cleaning up every state or municipal mess.

What Trump should do is send in the Feds to remove the local authorities who are either unable or unwilling to do their jobs, and replace them with the locals who are at least willing to try.

Then the locals can clean up their own mess.

[TJJ2000]

Article IV, Section IV, "The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence."

[ThomasD]

Great, what happens in the event of domestic violence when the legislature and executive abnegate and make no such application?

[TJJ2000]

Call it an Invasion and consider the run-away local authorities a sympathizer of the invasion..... Which really is pretty accurate in most (Seattle-yes) liberal cities. I've been waiting for a trigger event that would make communism a treasonous act.

"send in the Feds to remove the local authorities who are either unable or unwilling to do their jobs, and replace them with the locals who are at least willing to try."

[Jeffg1967]

Nah. Since they claim to be separate from the U.S. we should set up a border with CHAZ, demand passports if they would like to visit our country, and let them know we will begin trading with them once they negotiate a trade deal with appropriate tariffs. Of course until that trade deal is conducted we won’t be able to allow any vegan meat substitute or soy products to cross the border. I’m sure they can fend for themselves being autonomous and all.

[Shitlord of the Woodchippers]

Send a tactical team in and put them all down.

Enough is enough.

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

“It is unfortunate, that the efforts of mankind to recover the freedom of which they have been so long deprived, will be accompanied with violence, with errors, & even with crimes. But while we weep over the means, we must pray for the end.” ~ Thomas Jefferson

Their little improv "rebellion" and "republic" has the failings to be expected, but it is better than simply cowering before government and suffering under its abuses.

[TJJ2000]

I highly doubt they formed a 'republic' since they have no "Supreme Law".

[Ricport]

And the Hindenburg was just a little "oops."

What pure, unadulterated horseshit. If this was any kind of a model for the future, they wouldn't have put up walls, instituted stop and frisk, have a loser rapper-turned-warlord and his armed cronies serving as self-appointed police, and be shaking down local businesses for protection money.

You've read some of Jefferson's quotes. Great. Now, try reading "The Gulag Archipelago" and some fucking newspapers.

[CNNisaDNCadvocate]

Historically, people have always gotten the totalitarian regimes they've supported...the Soviets, the Nazis, the Communist Chinese, and the despair and misery that came with them.

[TJJ2000]

Well said, "totalitarian regimes they’ve supported"... I'm still trying to figure out if this mob of protesters is there to "support" or "destroy" our ever-growing "totalitarian regime".

[Leslie the Bard]

All the city govt. need do is cut off the water, electricity, and emergency services to this "free" zone for a couple weeks. All the sympathizers in the city can't truck in enough food and water to support that many people who are doing *nothing* but making speeches. Let them stew in their own juice until they get sick of it.

[adampeart]

Agreed! This isn't secession, autonomy, or an experiment in self-governance. This is vandalism, aggression, intimidation, and theft. Are all of the residents and business owners voluntarily participating in this grand experiment? Shame, I used to visit Reason religiously. Then, once they became infected with TDS, their minds 'opened' so much their brains fell out. Now I semiannually pop in to see how apologetic they've become. Do they also cheer the autonomy and "self-governance" of North Korea? Frankly, when 'CHAZ' starts eating their own (as Marxists are wont to do) and chaos ensues, the insurrectionists need to swept up and put in prison and forced to make restitution.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

I love how the LARPers think any of this shit is sustainable. Those tweets are all a day old, so Christian missed the part about the homeless people they all let in looting the food and the LARPers having to beg for more. Like Thoreau and the commie kibbutzes in Israel, they're counting on perpetual charity and a functioning society to ensure they don't starve to death.

They getting a lot of attention now because it's brand-new. When all the headcases start fighting with each other in the next couple of weeks, it's going to fall apart fast.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Just a quick reminder that Occupy Wall Street, which this is just the latest iteration of, happened 8 years ago, which is a lifetime in political terms. Go back and read some of the articles on what happened there, and gaze at the Capital Hill Autistic Zone's future.

[John]

It is my understanding a whole lot of dumb progressive white girls got raped as the homeless and the predators moved in. Hell, it goes back farther than that. Watch Gimme Shelter sometime. These idiots never learn.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Apparently they're already trying to extort money (cash or Bitcoin) out of the local businesses. Their "list of demands" are joke--basically, it reads like a middle-schooler sat down and started rage-posting in a personal diary--and if they had copied them straight from Bane's speech in Dark Knight Rises, I wouldn't be surprised.

For now, they're hurting only their fellow leftists. If they start infiltrating the hinterlands, however, the only real answer at this point is to push back at them, hard, and with violence if necessary, because they're quite open about the fact that total control is what they want.

[Dr. Ed]

Dumb progressive White girls won't have police to go to after they are raped...

[ThomasD]

Since it is an autonomous zone who is to say what "rape" is?

[ThatSkepticGuy]

Oh, it wasn’t even the homeless. Most of the OWS rapes were done by fellow travelers, and then lied about by propagandist hacks like Anderson Cooper.

[Kevin Smith]

Apparently a rapper named Raz Simone and his crew have taken up the mantle of warlords and are "policing" the district

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Shit, you ninja'd my comment above.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Wonder when General Butt Naked will make an appearance.

[Gray_Jay]

I'm wondering when 1stMarDiv will.

Of course, that's what these useful idiots' backers want: a giant pile of bodies due to the US Gov't.

The businesses in this six block area didn't ask for this shit. Don't they get a say?

[Gray_Jay]

Again, Seattle PD would have come down like a ton of bricks on any of the property owners defending their property and themselves from an actual invasion. If the city, county, and state---may fuck be upon that worthless asshole, Inslee---won't defend you, and will hammer the dogshit out of you if you do it, what's left?

[soldiermedic76]

Inslee may be worse than Whitmer just less infamous outside the Pacific Northwest.

[Shitlord of the Woodchippers]

Jay Inslee should be tried and executed.

[Nardz]

I'd like the giant pile of bodies, but I'd rather local civilians make it happen

[Dariush]

“ Wonder when General Butt Naked will make an appearance.”

This would stop Antifa dead in it’s tracks. Could you imagine this naked immortal in the CHAZ with his AK 47 in one hand and filleting his enemies with the other? Cannibalizing the children of the Antifa members as they watch in horror? Alas, General Butt Naked is an evangelical minister now, but now there is a reason to send people to Liberia again. We can only dream.

[darkflame]

Better question, when does a rightwing militia (or white supremacist militia) decide that "hm, no rules sounds pretty great" and decides to try and take over. What are the Antifa gonna do, call the police? The John Brown club from what I've heard is a joke, and they gotta realize that 1. They can't shoot people for merely trying to enter without the cops and National guard curb stomping their ass and 2. If the rightwing militia gets inside, they've lost control. So it's a catch 22 of losing

[Brett Bellmore]

"They can’t shoot people for merely trying to enter without the cops and National guard curb stomping their ass "

If it's Antifa vs militia, the Portland cops absolutely are NOT going to be allowed to curb stomp the Antifa if they fire on the militia. That's not how it works. The National Guard? Maybe, but that's why they wouldn't be there in the first place if a decision hadn't been made to curb stomp Antifa.

[A Thinking Mind]

And I say, let it play out. Let them LARP for as long as possible, and wait until they're ready to start tossing out the bodies. Let them demonstrate their hypocrisy to all the people who might want to see them as martyrs or heroes.

[soldiermedic76]

I say we pull out and nuke them from orbit...

[pinki streigerz]

sex in nürnberg also sad pull out!

[Dr. Ed]

Come now -- a 155 howitzer battery couldn't take it out?

[ThatSkepticGuy]

It’s the only way to be sure.

[Ben of Houston]

Nah, you'd make them into martyrs.
Their idea is completely unsustainable. Sit back. Let them fail. You will break their will as their people slink back to normalcy with their tails between their legs. Others might rise up in the future, but none of these will.

[Nardz]

They just need to set up cameras all around it and livestream 24/7 (if it gets to 7...)
Everybody involved should be humiliated

[mlwjr]

tell that to the people who live and work in that area...

[Ben of Houston]

And turning it into a warzone is probably the only thing we could do to make it worse for them.

[darkflame]

From my understanding, you already have infighting going on between the wannabe warlord types with the guns, and a bunch of older, brainless hippy types who want the gun guys gone.

[harpac]

"When all the headcases start fighting..."

Hence, the warlord

[Rich]

it is still vaguely encouraging to see people try to set up their own self-governing enclave in the vacuum left by the police's withdrawal.

Suppose these, um, protesters had done this in "the vacuum" of a torched pharmacy or a boarded-up Macy's. Wouldn't the people who had "withdrawn" from such a proto-CHAZ want the apparent squatters out, or at least require them to buy the property first?

[BigT]

There’s a house in Chapaqua they should invade and take over.

[mamabug]

it is still vaguely encouraging to see people try to set up their own self-governing enclave in the vacuum left by the police’s withdrawal.

Oh, FFS, it's not like a neighborhood coming together to deal with the power vacumn left by a war or natural disaster, the only reason the police withdrew is because of these idiots (who don't live in the area for the most part) in the first place.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

abandoning a precinct building, demonstrators establishing an "autonomous zone" in the surrounding streets, and a brief occupation of city hall.

An occupation of city hall... conducted by a ranking member of city hall.

[DaveSs]

some businesses in the area opening up to offer water, bathroom facilities, and food to demonstrators

I'm sure it was completely on a voluntary basis and there were no threats or coercion explicit or implied.

[Gray_Jay]

Especially after a few days of watching other businesses get looted and burnt down.

[Fist of Etiquette]

If the neighborhood wasn't so supportive of the protests, things would be a lot harder!

Galt's Gulch, it ain't.

[SilentSkies]

Astounding. An urban commune (a contradiction in terms if I ever heard one) that produces nothing and is reliant on loot. Then, they ask internal businesses to "divest" from the city. I wonder what happens if they don't? Seems unlikely that it is self-government, more likely that it is authoritarian occupation.

[BigT]

At some point you run out of other people’s food.

[darkflame]

well you see, that's when you start looking at surrounding blocks and figure out who's going to 'volunteer' to join the commune. And they will volunteer if they know what's good for them.

[CE]

Just cut off their unemployment checks, since they're autonomous and all.

[Juice]

Then, they ask internal businesses to “divest” from the city.

By using plastic straws?

[soldiermedic76]

?????
Did that make sense in your head?

[Dillinger]

looks like Philly in 12 Monkeys

[Unicorn Abattoir]

Philly looks like Philly in 12 monkeys.

[Dillinger]

lol. i haven't been since the last time Genesis toured ... 2005? 7?

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

A few assembled demonstrators reportedly demanded a 100 percent defunding of the police. Sawant, reports the Stranger, said that that was infeasible under capitalism, and touted her own plan to cut the department's budget by 50 percent.

She is such an authoritarian lying piece of shit.

[Brandybuck]

Because under Communism the police would be paid with good wishes and unicorn farts.

[CE]

payment in kind always works, especially with vice cops, unless they're short of their quota

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

where people chanted and demanded the resignation of Durkan and the defunding of the police.

Finally, something the protesters and I agree on!

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I'm happy to see they built a wall around their autonomous zone.

[BigT]

Did the illegal immigrant Mexicans pay for it?

[Longtobefree]

I am amazed Mexico got the money there that fast.

[Brandybuck]

> demands from the Free Capitol folks includes calls for both police abolition and rent control

Cognitive dissonance much? You can't have rent control without the police to enforce it. Granted, you can't have rent without the police to protect property rights either, but still the idea that leftie ideas can be put into practice without the police is beyond stupid.

The left has tried this before. Several times. And failed each time. The Paris Commune is the most notable example.

[Mlovesaw]

Corona is big threat of the century which effect physically, mentally and financially/DCo To over come these difficulties and make full use of this hostage period and make online earning.

For more detail visit the given link.......► Home Profit System

[Illocust]

Nah, if there is no police. You hire johnny and his good buddy crowbar to enforce rents.

Personally, I don't like the idea of being ruled by the Mafia, so I'd prefer we kept cops as the main enforcers.

[Juice]

What if the Mafia's protection money was deducted from your paycheck or included in your mortgage payment?

[soldiermedic76]

Did I elect them or agree in any form to their protection?

[Juice]

Did elect or agree in any way to the protection of the local cops?

[soldiermedic76]

The sad thing is that you actually think you have a point here. Mafia taking over arbitrarily is not the same as electing a city council who then hires city employees on your behalf.

[Juice]

So would it make it better if the mafia started holding elections for your local bosses? Of course the only candidates on the ballot are those who make it through vetting by one of the two families, so your choices are pretty limited and they both have the same basic outlook when it comes to how things are gonna operate around here. I mean, would you participate in the election and vote for a mafia capo because he's slightly less shitty than the other one on the ballot? Would it make a difference in your life if you didn't? So what if there is a group of people out there that goes out and votes in these elections? How does that mean you consented to any of it?

[soldiermedic76]

No, unless the people chose to elect the mafia. Keep digging.
You consented because you voted or chose not to vote. Both are your choice.

[darkflame]

I never chose to be born, DAD! /sarc

[CE]

I've never voted for anyone who won, so no, I haven't consented to any of it

[Juice]

Did I elect or agree in any way to the protection of the local cops?

[soldiermedic76]

You elected the city council, which acted on your behalf to hire the police. Rather your preferred candidate won or not is beside the point, because you had a say in who was elected. That is how representative republics work. Bitching because your preferred candidate (albeit, in your case, I believe you more than likely vote for progressives anyhow, and progressives run Seattle and Minneapolis) is not the same as a mob moving in and taking over without any elections.

[Juice]

You elected the city council

I most certainly did not.

which acted on your behalf

Not by any consent on my part.

Rather your preferred candidate won or not is beside the point

I have no preferred candidate just like I have no preferred mafia capo.

Just because some other people support the mafia or a city council doesn't mean they have my consent in any form.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Jesus, you're even dumber than the commie LARPers. Go join them if you want your an-cap paradise up close and personal.

[Juice]

No, you're dumb! There. We argued.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Said the guy who literally relies on modern society to stay alive while claiming it's all bullshit.

[Juice]

There's a bit of space between "I'd prefer to be able to interact with others based on consent rather than force" and "everything is bullshit" but you go ahead and beat that strawman like a Seattle riot cop.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

you go ahead and beat that strawman like a Seattle riot cop.

If only. We might be spared the current shitshow going on there right now.

[soldiermedic76]

If you voted you consented to abide by the results of those votes. If you didn't vote, you chose not to have your voice heard and therefore you agreed to abide by the results of the vote. No one is forcing you to live in the usa, so by choosing to remain here you choose to follow our system of government. Note I am not saying love it or leave it.

[soldiermedic76]

You also have the right to try and change our government also and even run for office. So again if you choose not to do so, you have given consent to abide by the laws of those who did decide to participate.

[CE]

sounds more like a fait accompli than consent

[soldiermedic76]

Basically your argument is reduced to my preferred candidate didn't win so I am going to throw a fit and not listen.

[Ricport]

So, either you don't/didn't vote (in that case, whose fault is it for the system you live under), or you did, and you are fuming because not enough people voted for your/your preferred candidate(s) positions?

Sounds like you'd be more comfortable in Mogadishu.

[Sheldonius Rex]

You don't need police to enforce property rights. A court or arbitration system of some form really would be nice, but even that really isn't necessary.

If you have property, you can enforce your rights to it yourself. It isn't even that hard. Even easier if there is no government to object to your preferred method of enforcement.

[docduracoat]

Just like Somalia!
Or maybe England during the Viking period.
Defend your property yourself.
And if 10 Vikings with axes want your property?
Shoot them!
And when 10 rappers with guns want free stuff from you?
Get together with the neighbors and form an autodefensa militia.
When you go buy more ammo, go in a convoy.
Cause the rappers are waiting in ambush.
I personally prefer police and courts

[Ra's al Gore]

https://twitter.com/RobManess/status/1270797536903737351
A hint for all you would-be armed insurrectionists: combat professionals talk logistics while amateurs talk tactics. One Day Since “Antifa” Created Their “Autonomous Zone” in Seattle, and They’ve Already Run Out of Food & Are Starving

[CE]

US Grant started as a quartermaster

[mamabug]

This kind of pisses me off. For the last three months, I've been prohibited from putting out so much as an extra yard waste bag due to 'concerns' over COVID (I have my doubts, our waste disposal service is lazy). Which I get charged for and am willing to pay to deal with our blackberries. Apparently if you illegally seize city property, those concerns go out the window and the city will take care of your waste for free.

[Gray_Jay]

Vote the fuckers out, mamabug.

Oh who am I kidding: these people have better job security than the Politburo.

[Rob Misek]

Many years later the lawless autonomous zones were populated entirely with blacks, still “protesting”.

The rest of us, known to blacks as privileged just ignore them.

[soldiermedic76]

Maybe the protestors/autonomous zone citizens should read this little piece from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7537000/7537585.stm

[Overt]

Leave it to Christian to turn an interesting thought experiment into an opportunity to write a "Hur Dur, Conservatives Suck!" article.

In any case, the part of this I am interested in is the assertion of governing rights. As near as I can tell, the people who have moved in have asserted that the government no longer has governing rights over this territory.

The interesting thing is that by Implication, the local government has actually allowed the Antifa pricks to assume this governing authority. They pulled out of the area, left the door unlocked, and have specifically declined to re-assume their governing rights.

With governing rights come governing responsibility. The mayor has had no problem asserting her power to tax the people of this area. So there is an obligation to provide that whole "For the people" protection of life, liberty, yada yada. For the city to decline its responsibility to this work, should render their part of the "social contract" that liberals talk about null and void.

[soldiermedic76]

Another interesting question: does their assertion that the government has no rights extend to the federal government? Wouldn't that be an act of rebellion then and covered under treason in the Constitution?

[darkflame]

That's what I was thinking. Rebellion or sedition, I think that either way, when this collapses, there's gonna be a line of FBI agents to arrest everyone who was a part of this. The only question is whether they'll have to send in the Marines first.

[TJJ2000]

The way the article reads; Seattle PD wasn't pushed-out. They willingly walked away. Probably by order of the D-Mayor.

[BruceMajors]

Conservative radio show host Chris Plante today observed that just turning off the electricity, or even the cell phone tower, serving this area, would lead all the twitter narcissists to go home.

Since they were begging for food donations today, someone just giving them food poisoned with laxatives or sedatives or something stronger would wipe them out promptly. They aren't very self-sufficient for an autonomous area.

[DaveT1000]

True.

There are, however, also businesses and (as I understand it) homes located within this area. If I were the owner of a business or home there, I'd already be extremely pissed that the local government allowed this BS to happen. Now I'm getting my power and cell service cut off?

[chemjeff radical individualist]

If only these protestors had decided to seize some government building in the middle of nowhere, Oregon. Then it would have been hailed as a noble experiment in self-government and a fuck-you to the authorities. But no, it's leftists seizing downtown Seattle so it's Paris 1871 all over again and therefore creeping Marxism and an act of treason.

God the double standard around here is nauseating.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

And chemtard jumps out of the woodwork again to stan for his lefty boos.

[Nardz]

The Marxism isn't creeping, it's explicit

[soldiermedic76]

I think the bigger issue is the private businesses in the area. Also, they are self avowed marxist. And the BLM protest didn't attempt self governing, it was a protest about BLM (the Bureau of Land Management policies). The group in Seattle are explicitly stating they have formed their own government.

[ThomasD]

It is also interesting to go back and contrast what Reason authors wrote back then, mostly well after the fact, and the approach we see today.

[ThomasD]

Although, looking back through some of those articles we do see that some people were much less measured in their approach to that occupation.

Sally Kohn complained about "the federal government's hyper-passive response to such flagrant acts of menacing and threats of domestic terrorism." Former Homeland Security official Juliette Kayyem, now the host of a podcast called Security Mom, declared on CNN's website that the occupation in Oregon is terrorism "by any definition."

I'm sure Jeff was highly critical of Kohn and Kayyem, to be sure.

[Sheldonius Rex]

Balkanization would be worth it if I didn't have to share a democracy with people like you any more.

[darkflame]

Speaking of double standards, you and all your fuckwit friends were calling the guys out in Oregon racists, sexists, homophobes, etc for no reason other than they were white. Despite the fact that they were none of that, had nothing to do with national politics in general, and were protesting a federal agency's unlawful abuse of a fellow rancher and neighbor.

So, the only double standard is the one you're setting. If we want to ignore the specifics of the actual cases, then we're just implementing YOUR standard on these wastes of DNA.

[TJJ2000]

[phone]...
The Bundies were trying to stand up to federal government take-over of State land. They are/were exactly in-line with the US Constitution (the supreme law) as well as reaffirmed by the Supreme Court. There was ABSOLUTELY NO intention to take that land for themselves thus making "chemjeff"'s comment a flat-out opposite situation as what he's trying to paint.

Posting lies to paint a false-narrative.

[Titus PUllo]

Sorry the State joined the union and it's responsibilities include the protection of everyone's life, liberty and property. Sorry but if any person in this bolshevik paradise zone is denied any natural rights, time to send in the troops and break the communists once and for all in this country.

this author is an cosmo woke fake libertarian.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Ohhhh, lawdy--there was a gathering in Portsmouth, Virginia to tear down the Confederate statue monument that's there. It's a four-sided monument with Confederate soldiers standing on the ledge on each side. Anyway, one of the statues fell smack down on one of the protesters and flattened him like a fucking pancake.

Ol' Johnny Reb sacrificed himself to get one final casualty from beyond the grave.

[Nardz]

Lol

Justice served

[Nardz]

Apparently he's not dead (yet)
Twitter is killing it though.
Everyone there, as participants in a felonious riot, should be charged with manslaughter or murder if the idiot dies

[Nardz]

That video is rough.
Feel bad for his family

[Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland]

Why?

[Nardz]

Spent too long on it.
Anyway, let's hope the people who had a hand in it get charged

[Ragnarredbeard]

I do feel a little bad for his parents. They paid good money to clothe him, feed him, give him a place to live, and he repays them by being a woke dumbass.

[Get To Da Chippah]

They've declared themselves to be a foreign entity hostile to the State of Washington and the United States. Have ICE cordon off the area with the help of the National Guard if necessary. Nothing and nobody goes in at that point. Announce that anyone who attacks the border guards from then on, or remains in the zone after a set time will be considered to have revoked their citizenship or other immigration status. Treat any attackers as foreign combatants. Anyone leaving peacefully before the time limit expires gets to go home. Anyone leaving peacefully after that gets charged with treason.

[Nardz]

And make that time limit 1 hour.
Then declare them all outlaws.
Then anyone who wishes can have their way with them

[darkflame]

only issue is what about the people who actually live/own businesses there? Who never asked for this shit. Especially considering that their "support" for the fuckwits came with a gun barrel shoved in their face

[creech]

I can image the HOA rules that will exist in this enclave.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

Any reports of infractions will be referred to the Karens for adjudication. The verdict is already known. Only the penalties need to be discussed.

Well, they don't really need to be discussed, but it gives the whole process a veneer of legitimacy.

[Nardz]

They've already decreed "smoking sections" (for tobacco)

[TripK2]

The O in HOA is white supremacy dude. Didn’t you know that, comrade?

[Unicorn Abattoir]

"You are now leaving the USA" - The return of Checkpoint Charlie

Up next - guard towers, barbed wire, Stasi-style internal security, and the sudden realization among the denizens that they can't leave.

[Sheldonius Rex]

Hopefully this all happens very soon.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

and the sudden realization among the denizens that they can’t leave.

I couldn't help but read that in (funny enough) Chazz Palminteri's voice.

[Nardz]

Well, I read Twitter now...
#CHAZ

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

Urban Gulching!

Metropolitan Freeholding!

Citysteading!

I'd have never bet on Seattle as the next source of an innovative liberty concept and movement, but kudos to these people.

In a deeply American sense every time that an American must interact with his government is a failure of that government.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Interesting how an "innovative liberty concept" consists of borders where even the residents of the area are arbitrarily let in or out based on the whims of the local patrols.

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

They are at that first frontier fort in hostile territory stage. Asking all coming to identify as friend or foe is perfectly understandable.

Government goons would never try to sneak in, would they?

I see nothing wrong with insisting on the Bill of Rights, including the Third Amendment.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

They are at that first frontier fort in hostile territory stage.

With the rape tents soon to follow.

[darkflame]

So is it BYOB (Bring Your Own Bitch) or will one be provided to you?

[soldiermedic76]

You're fucking kidding, I hope. Otherwise, you're just another leftist pretending to be a libertarian. And no, I openly admit I am not a libertarian, but a libertarian leaning conservative.

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

Their liberty includes their right to be wrong, at least in my opinion, about some details. Your insistence that they, indeed all of us, be right, at least in your opinion, might be a totalitarian pretending to be a libertarian leaning conservative.

And as an aside, in a truly American definition one can only be a conservative by being or striving to be a libertarian:

"I believe that the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." ~ Ronald Reagan

What has been passing as conservatism lately is a nasty foreign import that has always and will again lead to tyranny.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

All of a sudden shitlibs love borders.

[soldiermedic76]

They can be wrong as much as they like as long as they don't interfere with other people. What the fuck is wrong with you?

[Ricport]

You're more full of shit than a Christmas goose. If they had anything resembling legitimacy, they'd have bought some land and asked anyone who wanted to join their little Marxist paradise to come on in. The people living there don't have a choice. They're currently living at the barrel-end of a bunch of loser wacko communists who have likely never worked an honest day in their lives and who are about as democratic as the Democratic Peoples' Republic of North Korea.

Please go there armed and try to enter. and then report back to us on what kind of reception you get.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kuckland]

You are aware that gaults gultch was completely self sufficient and productive, right? There was no begging for food or money, actually US money wasn't good enough to buy anything there. As oppse to the retards in Seattle that are begging for both

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

Yes, and I'm aware that it was idealized fiction.

That such spontaneous human actions falls short, surprises no one. This autonomous zone is an improv rebellion, not a novel and philosophy painstakingly crafted over a lifetime. Rebellions are no where near all being equal, but they are vital to liberty.

“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then.”
~ Thomas Jefferson

[DaveT1000]

AFAIK, this "rebellion" was not in any way voted on by the residents and businesses in this area. It was really an invasion by woke assholes who barricaded the streets and then extorted the local businesses.

[CE]

Galt's Gulch was a thought experiment. In real life, billionaire industrialists would rather have 50 percent of a huge fortune than 100 percent of a tiny fortune, because they understand math, and crave attention.

[Sheldonius Rex]

Their experiment in self government (by people incapable therof, no less) has already run into the common snag of a warlord with a list of demands. I've got a bicentennial quarter that says he has sex slaves by the time he is arrested.

Only educated property owners and the honorably discharged from military service can be reliably counted upon to self govern. Everyone else routinely fails the shopping cart test. The common denominator is always low.

[Nardz]

If that warlord is the Raz Simone I've been seeing video of, I'm pretty sure he already has sex slaves

[darkflame]

Weren't most of the people killed by the OG Black Panthers black women who wanted to leave once they realized their place in the organization was "breeding sow"? At least, that's according to Reason back when it still did real journalism.

[darkflame]

That would be peak irony, wouldn't it? An "anti-racist/pro-black" riot leading to slaves

[NOYB2]

So secession is now OK? Or what?

[soldiermedic76]

The irony is their great-grandchildren will be tearing down their statues as some point in the future. Because is there anything more racist than the White Savior complex of progressives (anything more condescending than saying blacks can't better themselves because of white privilege)?

[CE]

secession yes, even armed secession. just no Confederate battle flags.

[dchang0]

Apparently the zone is demanding free healthcare and free college, paid for of course by the already overburdened net taxpayers.

[Rufus The Monocled]

"....it is still vaguely encouraging to see people try to set up their own self-governing enclave in the vacuum left by the police's withdrawal."

What's damn encouraging about nihilists spreading chaos and breaking the law? What 'self-governance'? Judging by what I've seen they look like they can't even bag groceries right.

They're self-centered morons who can't even feed themselves and would get over run by the Local Moose Lodge should the public regain whatever shred of self-dignity it has left and kick their sorry criminal asses. Or Ike's Canadian army can do the job.

Tell you what Chris. A little exercise. If by the images we see you think you'd be alright with these 'demonstrators' coming to your house, then all the power to you. But if you look at the 'protestors' and say, 'now way' then you're full of shit.

Also. How does one figure they can steal a police station and put up a community centre? What if another band of maurading left-wing nitwits comes along and steals that and puts up some a soy centre? Is this how their 'system of justice' gonna work? Basically, a model for petty tyrants and despots who constantly war and fight over 'self-governing zones'? It's the Vegans vs. the Tofus.

But hey. If Seattle residents are cool with it so be it. It's their city. If they want to keep Sawant in there that's their choice.

Is Reason out of its mind siding with lawlessness? How are they defining what constitutes lawlessness exactly?

This is not remotely libertarianism as I understand it. Libertarians aren't useful idiots. I'm sorry. Maybe it's my age but no seeing any good in any of this.

I'd like to see these dipshits try this shit in areas run by the Mafia.

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

All through these protests and an assortment of previous ones, I had a little gripe about protesters protesting everywhere except where their complaints lived. This gripe has sometimes, even, got me called a racist.

These people get real credit from me for going right to a police precinct to protest the police, like did those protesting a pro-police POTUS so near the WH that Trump forgot about his bone spurs as .

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

These people get real credit from me for going right to a police precinct to protest the police, like did those protesting a pro-police POTUS so near the WH that Trump forgot about his bone spurs as he ran for his bunker. Bunker Boy.

^ Odd. It posted on its own while I was still typing. Finished it. ^

[VinniUSMC]

That's been my #1 complaint about the riots, oops, protests. "Police killed a black person, so we will go loot Target" is hardly a rallying cry. "Fuck the police" while they're taking over a police station, that I can get behind. Even though their little occupation and attempt at self-governance is laughable, and will surely end badly for them (while I will be laughing my ass off). At least they took it to the police, to the government. I really don't think Target, or Mom 'n Pop next door, can stop the police from killing black people. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

Agreed. Go where your complaint is, or go home.

[Nardz]

But they didn't limit their occupation to the police station or other government buildings.
They're just Marxists, and have even less respect for human rights than the ostensible people they're rebelling against

[NOYB2]

How about the thousands of people whose homes and lives are upended by CHAZ? Who can't safely leave their buildings? Who can't use the infrastructure they keep paying for with their taxes?

[MarioSmario]

This is getting good. I love to watch Democrats go to war with each other. They established Jim Crowe to keep blacks from mixing with whites and now the Democrats want to bring it back to keep whites from mixing with blacks. Should be as effective as the last time. Not sure how the Democratl-led police unions will like it, but we'll see how it plays out among the Democrat only city council and their DNC local media propagandist. If all fails they can go on another riot and blame everyone else in America.

[God]

Why would you post this delusional garbage at 4am?

[MarioSmario]

Because I'm in Europe, comrade.

[ThatSkepticGuy]

God, don’t you have a shitty meme Facebook page from which you should be spewing your idiocy?

[dexter]

Do you realise the people and business in that zone are litterally slave to this people ? Do you think they have any choice but to "offer" them food and necessities ?
FUCK YOU REASON !!!
Now Reason I will tell you why you are not condamning this fucking piece of shits.
That's because those fucking kids are YOUR FUCKING KIDS or the fucking kids of your bourgeois friends, can't say bad thing about little johny rebellion or he will not love you anymore ? :'( :'( :'(
Fucking grow a spine !

[DaveT1000]

Yeah, I don't know what happened to the night-watchman state.

This take from Reason is complete BS.

The Seattle government is happy to impose taxes and regulate the hell out of everything that they can. (I haven't verified Seattle's position on plastic straws and bags, but I can guess it). They apparently can't, however, provide basic police protection to their citizens.

Meanwhile, the business owners and residents of this area are being abandoned by the police to deal with these woke nitwits who are extorting goods (explicitly or implicitly). I assume that it's impossible for anyone to drive a car on the streets to get in or out of this autonomous zone?

It's ludicrous. This isn't libertarianism. It's closer to Somalia-style warlordism.

[Nardz]

Progress uber alles

[ThanksForTheFish]

Is the the progressive version of the sovereign citizen movement?

[DesparateReasoning]

Somehow, I very much doubt that either Reason or the Seattle Mayor would be so blase if an armed contingent of Oath Keepers had taken over Capitol Hill and renamed it "New Jesus-stan".

[Rob Misek]

These complainers are on to something.

We need to designate contained autonomous zones in cities that are completely free from all “privileged” oversight.

The people who choose to live there “off the grid”, free from all systematic racism and police brutality.

Preferably far enough from the rest of civilization that we don’t smell the fires.

Television drones providing entertainment.

Buh bye, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

[Uomo Del Ghiaccio]

Everything is fine in Minnesota now that we have Minnesota Dictator Tim Walz in charge. It seems that if there is never an actual vaccine that Minnesota Dictator Tim Walz will not relinquish his dictatorial powers.

[CE]

We'll trade you Newsom.

[Question Everything]

"Yet so far the zone appears neither as lawless as conservatives fear nor as autonomous as some of its occupants might like. The city's Fire Department says it has committed more staff to cover the area. Other city departments have been on-site to clear away trash and empty dumpsters. SPD says it will still answer 911 calls in the area."

If these people wish to carve out a genuine "autonomous zone," then let them clean it, answer fire calls, and police it. Also, shut off the utilities to the area as much as possible (something the Mayor of LA threatened to do to businesses that did not obey lockdown orders) to show them what real autonomy is. Currently, these people are having their cake and eating it too. When the trash piles up, buildings burn, and crime rises, their little utopia won't look so good.

[MarioSmario]

Europe has had no go zones for years with little outcry from either side. I gave a guy feeling, however, once the Demicrats enact these types of zones here in the US and all hell breaks lose they'll cry racism and blame Republicans and the "racist DNA" of America.

[CE]

Germany has a self-declared king. They tried to arrest him for bank fraud, but determined that deposits in his bank were actually donations:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-05-19/who-is-germany-s-self-proclaimed-king-peter-fitzek

[Lady Dada]

A few thoughts:

1. Life imitates "The Wire?"
2. I say if they want to be autonomous, let them. Treat them as a foreign country. Don't let them into the rest of the city without a visa. Perhaps they can convince DOS to set up a consulate in one of the bathrooms.
3. List of demands? Seriously? Are they taking the area hostage, as in they occupy it until their demands are met? Fuck them. Terrorists have lists of demands, not foreign countries.

This is a bunch of children playing at revolution. It's a fucking South Park episode. I say the grown ups let them have exactly what they want in there: autonomy. Technically we aren't even required to protect their Constitutional rights since our Constitution doesn't apply to foreign countries, which CHAZ claims to be.

[tr2000]

Are you kidding me? Slightly encouraging for libertarians? Completely delusional, this is a movement which is explicitly collectivist!

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

That these people are sort of kooks does in no way discounts the enormous value of citizens pushing their government to, occasional, retreat and restraint.

This free zone, the chasing of police from the office in Minneapolis, and the chasing of Trump into his bunker stand with others on very different issues the Bundy Ranch forced retreat of federal forces, Tea Party near closure of the District of Criminals, and more dramatically and seriously with some like the Battle of Athens. These sort of actions and their stories are not all equal, and none of them are up there with chasing the Redcoats back to Boston, All, though, are very vital actually and culturally in both restraining government and in making a people with the will for liberty.

[ThatSkepticGuy]

“Liberty”, extorting local business owners after laying claim to their property. Same thing.

[MarioSmario]

Haven't these folks in a way also voluntarily given up their Constitutional rights? How much of that cake can the Left have and eat?

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

No one can give up their Constitutional rights. They are unalienable and preexisting rights. The Bill of Rights is composed of proscriptions against government, not prescriptions for citizens.

"Definition of unalienable: impossible to take away or give up"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/unalienable

[Ricport]

No matter how many times you post this effluent, the smell remains the same. You can rationalize what essentially is a mini-Communist dictatorship all you want, but again, try going there armed (i.e., exercising your 2A rights) and let us know what kind of reception you get.

You can make cow eyes all you want at these Marxists. The rest of us see this steaming pile of excrement for what it really is.

[ThomasD]

The editorial quality of this place has gone to complete shit.

Question marks in headlines, or sub headlines are lame, lame, lame. They are the lazy person's way of saying/not saying anything.

It's the "I didn't say that, I'm just asking questions" cop out.

[AprilJ]

Agreed. Thank god I don’t pay for it.

[yawbus]

Who knew that simply writing "You are now leaving the United States" on a piece of cardboard would magically make it so? Someone please write that and put it on the border into California.

[Ricport]

And NYC, and Portland, and DC, and...

[NotSureSoWhat]

Dear Lord Reason is so deluded. I can't believe I pay money to subscribe to this nonsense. To reiterate, Christian, since you are clearly as ignorant on this topic as our dipshit Governor, this is not people "creating a self-governing enclave", this is a bunch of whiney, mostly white neckbeards LARPing with assault rifles because they have nothing better to do. There is no self-governance with this, only spectacle. I can't believe the city is allowing this and failure of Durkan and Inslee's leadership has been appalling.

I was born and raised in Seattle and lived here most of my life. I know who these people are and I have met members of the John Brown Gun Club and other local radical leftist groups. They are enemies of the principles of capitalism, private property and the non-aggression principle, all the values that Reason as an organization claims to support. I guarantee you there are some businesses in Capitol Hill that probably support this (mostly the ones owned by white neckbeards), but I doubt many of them, particularly the ethnic restaurants owned by immigrants/minorities, are happy about this and only staying silent out of fear of being shamed/destroyed/boycotted. This is a Don Corleone style mob and there isn't any other word for it.

As someone in the comments pointed out earlier, I doubt you would be as thrilled about this if a bunch of rogue Marxists set up barricades and walked around with assault rifles if it was on the same block as YOUR apartment/house. Seriously, use your fucking head. I moved from Seattle to Bellevue last year and I couldn't be happier, it's still a blue city but we at least believe in the importance of enforcing the basic rules of law and order.

[BigGiveNotBigGov]

For a libertarian site Reason has an awful lot simpering big(ger) government slaves in its comment section.

Grow-a-pair - testicles or ovaries as appropriate.

"The doctrine of non-resistance against arbitrary power and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind." ~ New Hampshire Constitution

[Rob Misek]

There are a few bad laws that need to be changed but that doesn’t make the entire justice system arbitrary.

You want a society with autonomous zones? You ain’t no Snake Pliskin.

[Nardz]

Go move to the commune then, bitch

[bs]

Confession is good for your soul. It's good that you've come to terms with your totalitarian tendencies.

Now you and the pigeon just need to work on your hypocrisy.

[AprilJ]

I’ve said this before, as an actual Libertarian, I find this site to be full of feeble-minded progressives who don’t like the moniker now that their party has been co-opted by the alt left. Well you don’t get to steal my party to serve your interests when yours is no longer. Not buying that these people understand what liberty even means.

[Ricport]

Nah, I already have a pair, thanks. What I wish you'd get is some common fucking sense. One of the only roles of government is to provide for the securing of life, liberty and personal property. You clearly aren't advocating that.

Anyone want to join me in setting up a GoFundMe to purchase BigGive a one-way ticket to Mogadishu or Kabul, so he/she can live out their anarchist dreams?

[XM]

Reason will instantly deride nominal allies (tea party, Td Cruz) for not being libertarian enough on spending or immigration, but they remain silent on a Marxist radicals because they support ONE of their causes. Toppling statues, cancelling books and movies and destroying lives is all acceptable in the name of police abuse.

No revolution that breaks down the foundations of society and replaces it with powerful, unaccountable cabals has ever produced lasting peace, prosperity and decentralized government. The lessons of the French Revolution is apparently lost on Reason. It doesn't matter whether the underlying cause is just or not.

The only writer here who even expressed any concern over the government effectively staging a coup on a president is Robby Soave. They showed a muted, obligatory response to the Chinese lies that killed vastly more people than cops ever could. The entire movement is confined to some echo chamber where they obsess myopically on trade and immigration as the movement towards centralized government (in the name of fighting racism) has gained unconditional support from the ruling media and corporations.

Oh I'm sure BLM America will grant unlimited immigration and drugs. Reason staff can clap like trained seals as the collective declares their outfit as "White supremacy" due to their support of capitalism and seizes their property for the common good.

[bs]

They've suddenly come to accept borders and stop and frisk as long as the ever-forgivable left is doing it.

Reason exists to gaslight anyone with libertarian tendencies to take the sweet path of "socialism" which is really nothing more than neo-feudalism.

[Nardz]

^^^

[DWB]

A LOT of blood was spilled the last time Democrats wanted to leave the country -- this time I say LET THEM

[TJJ2000]

They can leave to their Utopian dream nation of N. Korea or Venezuela or CCCP or Cuba or etc, etc, etc... anytime they please.... The problem is they don't want to STEAL from their own failures. They want to STEAL from capitalisms success.

[DWB]

CHRISTIAN BRITSCHGI is an IDIOT

[AprilJ]

Self governance? This is Antifa. This is an alt left take over of my city. They are attempting to form some bizarre nation state, extorting local business and IDing residents of the area to pass through. They are violent domestic alt left terrorists. Don’t you dare tell me my own city is displaying anything but weak governance. You are not libertarians and this is not liberty.

[Brian Patronie]

Stop talking and start shooting...

[MWC71]

Where’s Wavy Gravy when you need him?

[docduracoat]

So they took over part of Seattle, chased the police away, and let the homeless in.
It was entirely foreseeable that the homeless would commit crimes against them.
Stealing their food is only the beginning.
I do like that they are begging for outside people to deliver them food.
Why are they not asking for free drugs, electricity, fire protection services, and of course free housing?
Others have said there is already a warlord taking power.
When you have guns and thugs on your side, you are now the king of the leftists.
So put the sergs to work growing marijuana that you will trade for food and ammunition!

[docduracoat]

Serfs
Although I would like to coin a new word serg, which would be a progressive reduced to a serf.

[I'm Not Sure]

"Escape from Seattle"? Who's playing Snake Plissken in this one?

[Brian Patronie]

This is armed insurrection, where's the police force and where is the National Guard? Hell, where's the frigging USA??

[TJJ2000]

I will say one thing; I have yet to find a single legitimate picture or video of the protesters being "armed" with anything but water bottles. Not say that they're not but I smell fish in news stories that paint this as a "armed" take-over.

[ThatSkepticGuy]

Then you’re deliberately not looking. Multiple people in this section have posted to Twitter accounts who are basically giving moment-by-moment details and footage.

There’s a world of difference between what the Dem media is portraying, and what the people living next door ate experiencing. Just like with OWS. Just like OBLM’s “peaceful protests”.

[TJJ2000]

Please post at least one example. Not trying to make a point here short of I cannot find a single one.

[Ricport]

Try this:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8409067/Trump-says-domestic-terrorists-taken-Seattle-demands-CHAZ-retaken.html

No offense, but you're just not looking very hard at all, considering it took about 10 seconds to find this.

[TJJ2000]

There it is - and 2 more together so total of 3 I've found. Thank you; I really did have quite a hard time finding it. Must be media bias or something 🙂

[TJJ2000]

Actually the images turned out to be fraudulent.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/13/media/seattle-fox-news-autonomous-zone-protest/index.html

Now this is some h*rsesh*t!!!! First we have lefties taking over down-town and now mainstream media painting fraudulent photo's. Maybe it's time to double the funding of police with kind of crap going on.

[Titus PUllo]

Now if a rural area sick of woke laws that destroy their economy want to leave...you would never hear the end of how these are radical "fill in the blank" scum and Reason would be leading the charge. Reason like the LP has been infiltrated by marxists..

If any of the citizens in this autonomous zone are denied their life, liberty or property (which the State signed to protect by joining the union), Federal Troops need to be sent in and crush this communist dictatorship...

[KBeckman]

Going to point out now that the police are walking back the extortion claims as they have not actually got any reports of it. That claim started in the blog The Post Millennial written by former Seattle City Council candidate Ari Hoffman.

[CE]

Neither. It's an example of failed government and a lack of political will. The mayor and the governor abandoned their duty to enforce the law and protect the rights of the law abiding citizens, then said the president who criticized them had no leadership ability.

[KevinP]

Video from the zone, 1:21 seconds:
https://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1271224115576180737

Quote:
Occupiers forced this guy out who was live-streaming inside the zone. The crowd was calling him a white supremacist, though the man being pushed out says he’s simply an anti-abortion advocate. The crowd chanted, “Who don’t matter? This motherfucker!”

[Ricport]

Don't worry. BigGive will be along shortly to pathetically rationalize how these are nothing but glorious patriots and not wannabe Communist dictators.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

I've been away for a while. Is there anyone left at Reason who even remotely resembles a libertarian? Or have they all been replaced by this sort of pants-on-head retarded excuse for a "progressive"?

[Vondy]

I'm surprised Reason published this drivel. There are astronomical gulfs of ideological space between Libertarian principles and an armed mob violently imposing anarchic thug-rule. This isn't an idealistic experiment in peaceful autonomy by principled actors. This is a bunch of armed scumbags using populist slogans, intimidation, and violence to make a putsch. And they are blithering useful idiots to boot. The mob who "occupied" city hall was led by Kshama Sawant, who is cynically using this to try to oust her rival, the mayor, whose job she wants. I guarantee you, the day she becomes mayor she's going to send armed cops to put their boots on the necks of anyone who doesn't play by her bat-guano insane authoritarian leftist rules. The people behind this don't have a Libertarian bone in their bodies. They're more jack-booted than the cops they are railing against. That Reason thinks this is "a libertarian experiment" kind of makes me wonder what their dithering idea of Libertarianism actually is.

[Ricport]

BRAVO! Well said!

[Echospinner]

It is a classic Mexican Standoff at this point.

Neither side can make a move without losing something.

The protesters who are not centrally organized have made some vague demands they cannot achieve. At the same time they need to keep some level of decency inside their self proclaimed “autonomous area” . That is not an easy task. It is likely to break down at some point soon. They boxed themselves in. A classic blunder for any insurgent. I think Mao said something “ The guerrilla must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea.”

It is up to the government to make the next move. If they move in with force it could get very messy and escalate. Nobody wants to do that.

I think the government is just watching now. No doubt they have people inside and are monitoring cell phone and other activity. They still hold the cards.

[Titus PUllo]

"We are out of food"..man those marxists just can't feed the people can they? Maybe they should make all food free like healthcare. Or set prices people can afford...ha ha

HOw this woke could write such a pos piece is beyond me. While I would let this latest bolshevik paradise collapse if the citizens inside are not allowed out or have their life, liberty or property taken by the thugs..I would give one warning then crush the communists

[NOYB2]

Is the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone a brave experiment in self-government or just flash-in-the-pan activism?

Neither. It's trespassing, theft, and violence by a bunch of thugs with no property rights in the land.